Latest / Sports Card Clubhouse / Is The Latest Hobby Trend Here To Stay?

Transcript

Is The Latest Hobby Trend Here To Stay? · Sports Card Clubhouse

0:00
In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout
0:03
the land participating in the hobby.
0:06
There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of Midlife Cards, and
0:11
while distance may separate them, here is where they come
0:14
together to talk cards. Hey buddy, how are you doing on
0:21
this fine afternoon? Man, we are.
0:26
It's good. It's been warm in Maine, which
0:28
is awesome. You know, once you hit March and
0:30
it starts to get warm and the snow is melting so fast, the
0:34
wife and I are going out for walks in the evenings and it's,
0:39
it's the best. I love it.
0:41
That's fantastic. How are you?
0:44
I'm doing. I'm doing pretty well.
0:48
Let's see anything crazy going on?
0:50
I've bought a couple of things. Something came in the mail
0:53
today. I haven't opened it yet.
0:55
I'm going to start doing my pickups differently.
0:58
Instead of doing like 1 pickup video a month like I've done for
1:02
two years I'm I'm just going to start showing them as they
1:06
trickle in I think. I do and I convert it to one a
1:09
week like a year or two ago and really like that.
1:13
Yeah, I, I got to, got to switch it up.
1:15
So, all right, I have a topic because this morning, literally
1:20
as I was on my way to work, I got 2 separate texts about this
1:24
topic. And I'm like, interesting.
1:29
So I'm going to show the text or the screenshot that I got and
1:33
then and, and I'll describe it for those of you that are
1:36
listening. And we have, we have a guest.
1:40
Did you know about this? How do we have a guest bring
1:43
them on? How did that?
1:45
What in the heck just happened? I am completely caught off
1:48
guard. What is happening?
1:51
Do y'all hear that? Do y'all hear that?
1:53
What is it? It's the sound of the hobby
1:55
revolt. It sounded like pitch, you know,
2:00
the porches and pitchforks and Nope, it was like those the the
2:05
the all of the people in lame is in that triangle and they're
2:09
saying, do you hear the people sing?
2:11
You know that thing? All right, go ahead.
2:13
Get out of. Here, great, I didn't do that
2:16
anymore. I didn't mean to crash all's
2:17
party, I just had to see if y'all had heard about the revolt
2:20
and what you thought about it. How?
2:23
Did you get the link? What were you guys just
2:25
recording or something? Is that what just happened?
2:28
You just sent in the link just for fun.
2:30
He he called me a minute before we started recording and I was
2:33
like, I got to go. I'm recording with Greg and he's
2:35
like, send me the link. I'm going to pop in for a
2:37
minute. How long are you we do you want
2:39
to take a look at our first topic?
2:41
I think I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
2:44
I'm here. Sure.
2:45
OK. OK, So I don't know if your mic
2:48
is on, if that matters, but I can hear you fine.
2:51
But just so you know, it's just not as clear as sometimes you
2:53
are. So I'm going to put it on the
2:55
screen right here. This is the text I got from a
2:59
couple of people today and I will describe it and read it at
3:03
least part of it to people that are listening, not watching.
3:06
It's fanatics. Collects.
3:09
Collect posted breaking. We're excited to announce that
3:13
we just brokered a $5.2 million private sale for the 2013 Aaron
3:19
Judge Bowman Chrome Draft, one of one Super Fractor autograph.
3:25
It joins Haunus Wagner, Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle as the
3:31
only baseball players in history to have a trading card sell for
3:36
$5,000,000 plus. So this is what I woke up to
3:41
this morning. So let's start with our guest,
3:43
'cause that's, you know, my parents always said that the
3:46
guest should eat first, you know, and all that kind of
3:48
stuff. So Mike, what is your reaction
3:51
when you see that? Is that does that look like a
3:55
revolution to you? No.
3:59
Can you hear me OK? Is this better?
4:00
Yeah, Yeah, you're great. OK, this feels like silliness,
4:09
$5,000,000 for Look, Judge is amazing.
4:12
I'm not even questioning his, you know, greatness.
4:16
But he's not Ruth and it's not a Wagner and it's not a mantle.
4:21
It is a one of one. But $5,000,000 again, you're the
4:27
separation between the haves and the have nots in the hobby has
4:31
been going on now for years, right?
4:33
This isn't new, but the IT it's getting the gap is widening all
4:38
the time. None of us, the three of us
4:41
could sell all of our collections, every asset that we
4:44
own, all three of us combined and could not buy that card.
4:48
I. Bet we could.
4:51
I might be worth more than you think, Mike.
4:53
OK, fair enough. Congratulations.
4:56
By the way, Greg, I'm. Worth.
4:58
I'm worth less than you think. Whatever their number is in your
5:03
brain for junk quack 0M. Cut it in half and you're still
5:07
probably high. But I have AI have a follow up
5:10
question. But Mike, let's bring it over to
5:12
you. What is your reaction to this?
5:14
Have people kind of gotten a little squirrely here?
5:18
No, I think that this makes sense.
5:19
I think that if you're going to buy an ultra modern card, it
5:23
used to be like Mike Trout. Judge is probably proven enough
5:29
that his his hobby relevance will stay strong for a long
5:33
time, even if when he starts to fade in his career his hobby
5:38
relevance goes down some long term.
5:40
I think it's strong, but my question is how much does a
5:44
Shohei super factor, one of one of his first card go for now
5:49
autographed? It's got to be 10 million,
5:51
right? Well, funny you should ask.
5:54
We don't have that super factor of Shohei autographed yet, but
5:59
we do have Shohei's signed card from his MLBMVPS collectible set
6:07
with his patch Otto one of one from tops.
6:11
And not from his. Collectibles I I understand but
6:16
but you know what I'm saying? But the point is this a big one
6:20
of one of Shohei sold in December for Four Point it says.
6:28
What did it say 3? 3 million. 3,000,000 down at the
6:30
bottom, yeah is what the is what it's sold for.
6:33
I think he'd probably sell for more now based on what Shohei
6:35
stuff is doing. So not to cut you off, but go
6:38
ahead, go back to what you're saying.
6:40
No, that's his gold logo man from 2025.
6:45
And I think that's a great card. It's a he bore it, it's awesome.
6:48
It's autographed, but his first super fracture from 2018
6:53
autographed has to go for 10 million.
6:55
Right, Yeah, yeah, 'cause last night I was watching King of
6:59
Cards. I I I enjoy watching him do his
7:02
card show episode. I think I do.
7:04
I do too. I think he's a likable guy.
7:06
And so I was watching that and he bought, he was, he was at a
7:09
bank 'cause he had just done a transaction where he bought the
7:14
out of 25 rookie Otto the Orange pitching and hitting both of
7:21
them. And he didn't say the exact
7:24
price, but it was in the neighborhood for the 2 cards of
7:26
$1,000,000. And that was out of 25, not out
7:30
of one, not the Super factor. So if you kind of do a
7:37
multiplier on that, I, I think it's very fair to say that it
7:42
would be much higher than what the judge just sold for.
7:45
Mike, you were shaking your head as I was saying that.
7:49
I just I don't get, I mean, I love, I think Shohei by the time
7:54
he's done and he might already be there best player I've ever
7:57
seen surpassing, surpassing Barry Bonds.
8:03
Judge, I would say Judge already is had a better career than Mike
8:07
Trout and Mike Trout's a first ballot Hall of Famer.
8:11
Yep, agreed. OK, so we're all in a great.
8:14
Do you agree with all that Greg? And but what I just see in this
8:19
super high end of of the sports card market is so not indicative
8:25
of the day-to-day collector, not indicative of the day-to-day
8:29
person that goes to a show And you and this all makes headlines
8:32
and it's fun to talk about, but it's like, I'm not going to go
8:37
out and buy that card. I'm not going to buy anything
8:39
close to that. I'm not going to buy the 25
8:41
number to 25 cards. And I like show.
8:44
Hey, I love, I think he's amazing.
8:45
I like judge, I think he's amazing.
8:48
I'll just own the bass rookie. Thank you.
8:50
And a nine, no less, Not even a 10.
8:52
I don't even need a 10. Just give me a nine and I'll be
8:56
happy and my collection will be complete.
8:57
And that's probably where what percent of the hobby lives. 90
9:03
something percent, right? And so when you see these
9:07
headline things, it's kind of like, OK, and then you go, yeah,
9:12
OK, I'm going to go back to buying APSA 9.
9:15
I think it's a little more than that.
9:17
I'll play devil's advocate for a second.
9:20
I think when you see people spending three million,
9:23
$5,000,000 on baseball cards that were that are not that old,
9:28
I think what it's saying is it's no longer just not just a hobby,
9:36
but just a hobby. It's it's now becoming an asset
9:40
class. And as soon as it crosses from a
9:44
hob, just a hobby. And again, I'm not saying that
9:46
in a negative way, but where people do it for entertainment,
9:50
90% entertainment. Now people are doing it for
9:54
serious investing. I think that these sales are are
10:01
more than just that's crazy. I go about my day.
10:04
It's whoa, people are actually investing serious money,
10:08
investing serious money into some of these cards.
10:11
Mike, what do you think about that?
10:15
Which Mike? Oh God, look at that.
10:19
Let's go with junk wax, Mike. No, I I agree with you
10:22
completely. You have some very wealthy
10:25
people who have shifted their money out of art and whatever
10:28
else they were investing in that was, you know, not the financial
10:32
markets and into cards because cards have exploded and they
10:36
don't want to be left behind. Just like a lot of people with
10:38
Bitcoin 10 years ago didn't want to be left behind and so they
10:42
invested there not I'm not comparing cards in Bitcoin, but
10:46
hopefully you get the point. Very wealthy people have have to
10:51
diversify their funds and they have money in the stock market,
10:54
they have money in real estate, they have money in various other
10:57
places. And then here's a new thing.
10:59
Sports cards, Pokémon, things like that.
11:02
So junk wax, junk wax. Mike, let me just interrupt for
11:05
just a second. Junk wax.
11:06
Mike, If somebody did invest in the cards and had a collection
11:10
and decided they wanted to sell that collection, what would you
11:14
recommend that they do, Mike? Junk wax Mike, unless you have
11:19
unless you have a $5,000,000 card, you should go to Chris
11:23
Sewell Baseball card Investor, dealer, collector investor
11:27
dealer in that order. Chris is the best and he
11:30
sponsors surface issues. We love Chris, he I just bought
11:33
a card from him. I've sold cards to him and if
11:37
you are selling piece of your collection or all of your
11:39
collection you should go to him. e-mail him at
11:42
sewellsportscards@gmail.com or you can go to our website
11:45
sportscardclubhouse.com. Click on partners and there he
11:49
is Chris poop right there on top.
11:52
Reach out to Chris. He will give you the best deal
11:55
out there. And he's very transparent about
11:57
why he's offering and what he's offering.
11:59
And Mike has nothing to do with the sponsorship.
12:00
And he's nodding. He's saying yeah.
12:02
Yeah, I agree. He's a great guy.
12:04
You've done deals with with Chris as a partner and he's a
12:08
great guy. I bought many cards from him as
12:10
well. When I see him on a video I go
12:13
hey is that sold? Yet I texted him last week he
12:17
had a Craig Craig Biggio rookie auto 88 score traded and I said
12:21
I need that card and I bought it from.
12:24
Him. Now, Mike, I want to hear your
12:25
reaction. I do want to put out there
12:27
though, first that if somebody is listening and they're a
12:30
vintage collector and they're saying they're just talking
12:32
about modern, don't worry, I have a bridge to how this
12:36
relates to vintage collectors too.
12:38
But I want to hear Mike's reaction first.
12:40
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm a financial planner and I have
12:43
clients with millions of dollars that invest with me.
12:47
Not not one of them of my hundreds and hundreds of clients
12:51
has ever called me and said, Hey, Mike, I want to do some
12:53
sports card investing. Do you do you, what do you
12:56
recommend? You know, I'm not saying it
13:00
does. It's not happening at all.
13:02
It is clearly happening, but I think it's still in its, you
13:08
know, infantile thing. You know, they people have tried
13:11
to launch these fractional things, which are basically
13:15
sports card mutual funds, for lack of a better word, right?
13:18
And I've heard, I can't tell you my sources, but I've got some
13:22
people telling me that there's some big VC money going into
13:27
trying to develop those types of things, none of which are here
13:32
yet, which means there's probably some more hoops you
13:35
have to jump through than you think.
13:36
Like, oh, I'm just gonna, hey, everybody send me 100 grand and
13:39
I'm gonna go out and buy some sports cars and we're gonna have
13:41
this awesome portfolio. And, you know, I'll make sure
13:45
it, it just feels very difficult, not impossible.
13:50
And this is totally off the cuff, by the way, 'cause.
13:54
I the whole thing is you're. Gonna ask me any of this, but I,
13:59
none of my clients are calling me asking me, you know, hey,
14:02
should I buy some 87 tops of wax and put it under my you know,
14:06
and it's an investment. What?
14:09
Would you say if they said I want to invest in sports cards?
14:12
I would say it's a very speculative game and.
14:19
Even vintage. Well, I would, I would first
14:21
send it to my channel. Of course, I mean by the way, I
14:25
also happen to none of my clients know that I have a
14:28
sports card channel. But what would I say?
14:33
Would you ask Mike? That was a good question.
14:34
I just forgot. It even even vintage?
14:37
Do you feel that Vintage is purely speculative too?
14:40
No, of course not. But it's, I don't know.
14:43
I it's so hard for me, and this is just a paradigm of mine.
14:48
It's so hard for me to think of cards as an investment and as
14:52
much grief as all of you have gotten.
14:57
Greg, you did a video the other day.
14:58
I'm going to tease you a little bit right now, but you're like,
15:01
does value still matters? Value a dirty words and my
15:04
answer no video over. You could have done it.
15:06
You didn't have to do 40 minutes on it.
15:08
You could have done 30 seconds and said yes, value matters.
15:11
Thank you very much and you're done.
15:14
And because it does to say it doesn't at all.
15:17
I don't collect for that reason. Mike, you've articulated it very
15:20
well in some of your videos and it both of y'all have truly we
15:27
all value is not irrelevant. But.
15:32
Values way down the list of why I collect.
15:35
You know, it's so far down the list.
15:37
I think Mike said it one time before, but I'm like him.
15:41
When I buy a card, it goes into wherever it goes, and I could
15:45
care less. I don't even know what the value
15:47
is anymore. I'm not looking for that card
15:48
anymore, so I don't care what the value is.
15:51
Someday I will care. Someday my family will care, but
15:55
as of right, the minute I buy it, that's off the list and I
15:59
go, OK, what's the value of the next card that I want to add to
16:01
the collection? That's what I care about, not
16:03
what I already own. So I don't know if that plays,
16:06
if that makes any sense at all. No, it it does.
16:10
It does. And there are people that have
16:14
gotten angry with me saying that it doesn't matter to them.
16:20
So I mean like angry with that. I mean, we're I'm not going to
16:24
go down that rabbit hole at this moment.
16:26
I've I've spent enough time down there.
16:28
OK, I want to circle back to what, you know, sometimes
16:33
something pops in your head and I that would be a good line.
16:35
And then the the moment passes. You said VC money and I was
16:42
going to say he's he's not talking about the Viet Cong,
16:44
he's talking about venture capitalist.
16:46
But the the moment has is long past.
16:49
OK. So I want to I want to show you
16:52
one last thing, tell one quick story and then ask a follow up
16:55
question about this. So the other thing in the video
16:59
that I watched on King of Cards is he was going around the show
17:04
and he was asking people about the dual logo man auto of Judge
17:10
Shohei. And he was asking people, what
17:13
do you think that this is going to sell for?
17:15
And the numbers were kind of everywhere between about 2
17:19
million and 7 million and most people were around 3 1/2 four
17:24
million. Needless to say, those are big
17:29
numbers. Now let me ask a follow up
17:32
question before I do my transition into how it this
17:35
applies to vintage and that is this let's go back to first this
17:40
this judge card MM Moynihan first, this card right here on
17:48
the screen, the Super factor Aaron Judge Bowman Chrome card.
17:53
Will this card be worth, will this card be able to be sold for
17:59
more than 5.2 million in five years and then in 30 years?
18:07
So in five years from today and then in 30 years from today,
18:11
what would you say if this card went up for auction?
18:14
It would go for in five and then in 30.
18:19
There's some civilization still going to be here, Craig.
18:23
Right. I don't know.
18:24
I mean, from what I'm hearing, it's it's, I mean, I'm about to
18:27
get hit with a, a sea of drones out here on the West Coast.
18:31
That's what they're telling me. So.
18:33
Yes, the answer is yes. It'll be.
18:35
More Five years it'll be more, and 30 years it'll be more.
18:38
OK, what do you think? A junk wax Mike.
18:42
I think in five years it will be less, in 30 years more in five
18:46
years his his career will be winding down.
18:49
He won't be. He won't be an MVP candidate
18:52
anymore. He might even be retired and he
18:56
will be out of the hobby consciousness.
18:59
That's so interesting because my initial instinct was in five
19:04
years it'll be worth more because he'll still be in
19:08
people's like awareness, you know, and, and they'll be he'll
19:12
be still hitting some home runs and, and he'll be taking victory
19:17
laps and he'll be passing guys on the all time lists.
19:21
And, and then in 30 years he'll be out of the consciousness.
19:25
He'll be, he'll be like Reggie Jackson, you know, is to this
19:29
generation is like, Oh yeah, he was good, but he's not like in
19:33
your face. So I actually think in five
19:36
years it'll be worth more and in 30 years it'll be worth less.
19:41
And I guess I mean, you could go inflation adjusted that that's
19:45
what grow things a lot for sure. But I'm, I'm just kind of
19:48
thinking at today's dollars, that's where I'm at so.
19:52
What's funny about what you're saying?
19:54
And it goes to show the three of us each have three different
19:57
opinions. Nobody knows, you know, anyone
20:00
who tries to tell you they're full of it because none of us
20:04
really know. I agree with your point, Greg,
20:07
of in five years. That he'll be starting to reach
20:10
these career milestones and he'll be in the news and he's
20:14
passing so and so and he's doing these great things.
20:16
I agree. He will probably not be an MP.
20:18
Well, who knows, he might be an MVP candidate.
20:21
Still, as long as Cal Raleigh doesn't hit sixty home runs in
20:25
the season, he'll be fine 'cause he's far and away the best
20:28
player in the American League. And so maybe so Mike might be,
20:34
you know, who knows which of us is going to be right?
20:38
And that's the danger. But watch this, watch this, this
20:43
card, this show, Hey card I think will be worth more in five
20:48
years and I think it'll be worth more in 30 years because I think
20:53
Shohei is different than Judge. I think Shohei is a generational
21:00
you don't forget. I mean, don't get me wrong, I
21:02
love Aaron Judge and he's incredible, but I think that
21:09
Shohei will be remembered more of like a Babe Ruth than a, a, a
21:16
Reggie Jackson or a, you know, a, a Hank Aaron or a Mickey
21:22
Mantle. I think he's going to be like,
21:25
that's the trajectory that he's on.
21:27
Mike, do you agree with me? I can't keep doing this.
21:31
I'm looking at the one, the one that I'm looking at.
21:33
They know I'm talking to him. Junk wax.
21:35
Mike, what do you think about that?
21:37
Are they different? IA 100%, they're different.
21:40
Yeah, Shohei, I think his market, and I'm saying this as
21:44
I'm also selling a couple of PSA 10 Shohei rookie cards, but his
21:48
market is much more sustainable in the long term than and in the
21:52
short term than judges. I think that judge is more
21:56
susceptible to downturns and performance to aging issues than
22:01
Shohei is. Plus Shohei is what, 3 years
22:05
younger? Four years.
22:06
Younger and show Hey's global. Yeah, exactly.
22:11
I Mike Moynihan, do you think Show Hey has more lasting
22:19
attraction than Judge or are they equally have lasting
22:23
attraction? Show Hey by a mile.
22:27
Yeah, when Show Hey's done, he will be considered one of the
22:33
top five players of all time. Yeah.
22:36
Assuming, I mean, he could get hurt tomorrow.
22:39
He'll still make the Hall of Fame, by the way.
22:42
Well, he has to pitch one game. I think he's what at 9 sees he's
22:44
got to pitch it or he's got to play in one game this season,
22:47
right? And he'll be eligible, I think.
22:50
Or is he at 9? Will this be his ninth season?
22:53
Anyway, whenever he's eligible, he's in the minute.
22:57
He steps on the field for that game.
22:59
He's in the Hall of Fame. Can he get to Ruthie and status?
23:03
He's going to have to keep going.
23:05
But he'll be considered top five of all time.
23:08
You're here to hear first. Yeah.
23:12
OK, So now I want to tie this in because, you know, I think all
23:16
three of us would consider ourselves more vintage
23:20
collectors and modern collectors, though all three of
23:23
us do collect both. I think that I did a video, I
23:28
did a live stream about a year ago and the topic was who will
23:34
be hobby relevant in like 50 years?
23:38
Will these vintage guys still be hobby relevant because like, you
23:42
know, Alcaline was great, but will the card industry now I, I
23:49
got a lot of feet. I got a lot of negative comments
23:52
on this 'cause they're like, oh, so if they're not hobby
23:54
relevant, I have a bunch of cards in my collection that
23:57
aren't hobby relevant. They're not relevant cards
23:59
anymore. Collect whatever you want.
24:02
If you want to collect historical important people,
24:05
great. But there are cards in showcases
24:10
that have wide appeal to people and there are cards in showcases
24:14
that have very narrow appeal. And my, my question to you guys
24:20
is, I think Shohei has the broadest appeal.
24:25
I think Judge has a narrower appeal long term, but not narrow
24:32
by any means. I think he, I think Judge is
24:34
going to be like a Mickey Mantle.
24:36
I think Shohei is going to be like Babe Ruth if we go back to
24:41
vintage players and let's just do Golden Era because that's
24:44
kind of where a lot of us can wrap our heads around.
24:49
Like guys like Harmon Killebrew in 30 years I think are going to
24:54
be names that very few people know, but I think that Willie
24:59
Mays will still be Willie Mays. I think Willie Mccovey won't be
25:07
like he is right now. I mean, Willie Mccovey is
25:10
Freddie Freeman. That's.
25:11
Exactly what I was going to say was this Freddie, Freddie
25:14
Freeman is a guy I love. Freddie Freeman, he's great.
25:16
He's a first bat, maybe not a first ballot Hall of Famer.
25:18
He should be. First ballot.
25:20
First ballot. Hall of Famer, but in 30-40
25:24
years, he's going to be. Harmony Willie Mccovey.
25:28
Right. He's going to be one of those
25:30
guys that nobody really talks about that much, and that's OK.
25:34
A lot of people get upset like, oh, he's, he's so great.
25:37
He is great. So is Mccovey.
25:41
It doesn't mean you shouldn't collect these guys.
25:44
It doesn't mean they're not worth buying and putting into
25:47
albums and and enjoying their cards and hunting their cards.
25:51
It it, it has nothing to do with that.
25:54
But there are some players, there are some people.
25:59
And I know that for a lot of people, that line of delineation
26:03
is the Hall of Fame. Like if you're in the Hall of
26:05
Fame, you're in the Hall of Fame, you're a Hall of Famer.
26:07
If you're not in the Hall of Fame, but you were close to the
26:09
Hall of Fame, you're not a Hall of Famer.
26:11
And I know that a lot of people use that as a line.
26:14
I think that there's another line where it's, well, you're in
26:19
the Hall of Fame, but you're going to have to research who
26:23
they were. And I, I don't even remember.
26:25
Was it my video today or Monday? I was talking about like Rodger
26:29
Bresnahan and Victoria Willis. And I was like, they're good.
26:32
They were Hall of farmers. They were important.
26:35
I mean, but they're not household names.
26:39
But Jack Hobb is a. Household name each each era.
26:42
If you think about you got the tobacco era, the pre war era,
26:47
the golden age and now right, or 80s and then now you can think
26:53
each era each time that I just mentioned has kind of their four
26:58
horsemen or their Mount Rushmore, right?
27:01
And in the golden era it's Maze, Aaron, Mantle and Koufax.
27:06
There's your 4. And Theo just got pissed, but
27:08
that's OK. I'm sorry Roberto Clemente, and
27:11
I'm sorry Jackie Robinson inside.
27:14
Koufax. And I had to throw a pitcher in
27:19
there. Mike said it.
27:20
Mike said it. Not me.
27:21
I I'm not the one that said this this.
27:22
Is but think about the tobacco era.
27:25
You've got Cobb, Matthewson, Wagner and Johnson, right?
27:30
That's kind of your four guys that are always going to be
27:32
collectible no matter how many years pass.
27:35
Those four guys and there's probably more than four.
27:38
I'm just naming 4 pre war era is Gehrig Ruth who could be the
27:45
other two in that kind of DiMaggio Williams?
27:48
DiMaggio yes. Williams Before or after?
27:52
Yeah. So those are all kind of pre
27:54
war. I mean Williams obviously went
27:56
in post war, so did DiMaggio a little right.
28:00
But you've got just, you can think of each era, guys.
28:03
All of y'all can think, not just you 2, but everybody watching
28:08
this can go, yeah, these guys, no matter what, are going to
28:11
transcend the Harmon Killebrews and the Willie Mccovey's and and
28:17
Maze, Aaron, Mantle, Koufax, Clemente, Jackie.
28:22
You know, you can probably name more than 4, but you can.
28:24
It's a small list, right? Of those transcendent players,
28:29
Judge and Otani are two of those that are playing right now.
28:33
And, and my, my thing is and, and again, I don't, I, I getting
28:38
all my stuff confused. I'm, I'm in, I'm in spring mode
28:41
right now. But I, I think that depending on
28:45
what your goals of your collection are, and depending on
28:50
how much value and future value does or doesn't matter to you,
28:56
it could play a role in what you want to be adding to your
29:02
collection. If, if value matters to you,
29:05
then you know, Kayline cards. Like I'm not just saying this
29:11
like when my dad was building his late 50s sixties set,
29:14
Kayline's cards were worth more than than they are now.
29:19
And same with Killebrew and, and other than Bob Gibson's rookie
29:24
and and Stan usual cards, I mean, Stan usual is you could
29:29
make a really strong argument he's a top ten player ever, but
29:32
for whatever reason, his stuff is not like Mantle or Maze or
29:38
Aaron or Jackie or whoever else you said does does that kind of,
29:46
I mean, cause Mike, I know that you've been fucking Mike.
29:49
Look at me. Gosh, I'm having a hard time
29:51
with this junk wax hero. Mike, I know you've been
29:56
collecting a lot of your favorite Red Sox and a lot of
30:00
their cards, Refractors and things and Nomars and 93 Finest.
30:07
You've been trying to get all the Red Sox in that and, and I,
30:11
I, but those are the cards that I think you care less about the
30:17
value. Those are, those are collection
30:19
cards. Those are, I don't care about
30:20
the value cards, but when you fork over money for like a
30:23
Clemente, it it, it matters. Maybe the piece of the pie is a
30:27
little larger. Yeah.
30:28
Oh, that is such a great way to distinguish it.
30:31
Yeah. So when I'm buying a early 2000s
30:35
Red Sox refractor, I'm spending like 3 bucks or a dollar or
30:40
maybe $20.00 for the most part. So I'm, I, I, I just don't care.
30:45
But you're right, when I'm buying a Clemente rookie and I'm
30:49
spending $800, I want to make sure it's a good copy, one that
30:55
potentially could go up in the future for sure.
30:58
Good point. How about you, Mike Moynihan?
31:03
Yes. You just collect everything
31:05
though. I, I do, but I, I'm thinking
31:08
about Pedro in terms of Mike, the other Mike and Pedro's top
31:14
20 pitcher all time if you really.
31:16
Thought about top five. Come on top.
31:18
Three top 20 was insulting. He's he's at least top 10 at.
31:23
Least he. Was trying the greatest of
31:26
back-to-back seasons in baseball history. 1999 and 2002 Thousand
31:29
was better by the way. Most people think it was 99.
31:32
I'm a Pedro fan. I I agree.
31:34
I just I think he's amazing. But is he hobby again?
31:38
I've had a whole episode on hobby good versus baseball good,
31:41
right? You would be shocked, Mike, at
31:44
the Pedro market that's out there.
31:46
It is bonkers, which is why I don't have a lot of his really
31:49
good cards because they sell for many hundreds if not thousands
31:54
of dollars. Well, that's good.
31:55
That's good. That's healthy for the hobby.
31:57
I think honestly, I mean in terms of the scope of and the
32:01
breadth of the hobby being strong, you don't want, Here's
32:07
the thing we haven't gotten to yet, which is the elephant in
32:10
the room. The hobby.
32:11
Concentrating dollars into it, just a few names is not good for
32:14
the health of the hobby. You want that money to be spread
32:18
out over the Harmon Killebrews and the alkalines and the Pedro
32:22
Martinez's of the world. Focusing and concentrating is
32:27
not healthy. That's bad diversification,
32:31
good, right? And diversification of hobby
32:34
dollars across the spectrum of players is a good thing.
32:38
And that's. One of the negatives of all of
32:41
the parallels and all of the different brands and lines is if
32:46
you want to show Hey Card from 2023, there are hundreds of
32:51
different ones. And so you can get thousands of
32:55
different ones. So you can get a quote UN quote
32:58
important show Hey card from that era when it was simplified,
33:03
when there was flair Donner's tops, it was more boring.
33:07
It was more boring, but it it was like it it, it forced you to
33:14
collect wider than now. Now you can be a show Hey only
33:19
collector. But in the moment, was it
33:22
boring? When we were growing up in that
33:23
era, was it boring? No, of course not.
33:26
We didn't think that at all. No, I didn't.
33:29
I think that's we think bigger, better, stronger, faster, right.
33:34
We had the hobby has to get more and more and you know zebra, you
33:39
know, double Helix, you know parallel is going to make the
33:43
difference. You know that's going to really
33:45
drive them to the store and make them buy.
33:47
We can't give them the same thing.
33:48
You know, we can't give them just a TOPS card anymore.
33:51
I mean, God forbid. What if what if?
33:54
What would happen to the hobby if TOPS said Nope we're only
33:58
making TOPS flagship and maybe some cool inserts?
34:03
That would not be good. That wouldn't be good either.
34:06
OK. We need, we need part of what
34:10
the draw is to the hobby right now.
34:13
I mean, Willy Wonka sold more Wonka bars when he put golden
34:18
tickets in there. Veruca Salt's dad had a
34:22
warehouse full of people ripping those things open.
34:25
And the Chase, I mean the, the, the, when you walk into a casino
34:32
and, and am I comparing sports cards to a casino right now?
34:35
I am for obvious reasons. But when you walk into a casino
34:39
and there's the one where the bars on the top and the numbers
34:42
just rolling, rolling, rolling, getting bigger.
34:44
And it's this huge number that is an appeal for an element of
34:51
the people who are participating.
34:53
There's some people who go, that's not real, that's never
34:56
going to happen. And then they go about and do
34:58
what they do. And there are other people that
35:00
are only there to hit the mother lode when they put that 152
35:06
mantle in the tops cards, which by the way, can some, it'd have
35:10
to be a redemption, right? A.
35:12
Redemption. Yeah, because it's graded.
35:14
It's a graded card. OK, but but yes or no Mike?
35:18
Junk wax hero. Yes or no what?
35:21
Yes or no, that the breadth of all of these different, you
35:27
know, swirly ball card refractors, double Helix cards,
35:32
it draws additional people into the hobby.
35:35
And if it was, if we scaled it back and got too simplified,
35:39
then that would actually narrow the hobby.
35:42
It it's a good thing, I think it's a good thing and a bad
35:46
thing for the hobby to have all of these options.
35:50
Yeah, I agree with you. I just don't care about those
35:53
things. Like give me if I'm, if I like a
35:56
player, let's say Freddie Freeman, I want his first year
35:59
refractor and I'm happy. Chrome refractor.
36:04
I don't want any of the fancy parallels, just the base
36:10
refractor. And that's my focus.
36:12
That's I, I got to stay focused. Otherwise I'm going to have a
36:16
tiger print tie dye refractor or something that who who cares.
36:23
Well, what, what would you say, Mike, to somebody saying, well,
36:25
why wouldn't you want his gold card that's numbered that's is
36:29
the gold rookie, right or his X Factor or his why?
36:34
Because somebody would say that, well, that's a better one.
36:36
Why don't you get the better once you upgrade to the better
36:40
version of that card? What's your answer to that?
36:43
I do want those, but I would rather have more cards and if I
36:48
if I can spend $20 on the base refractor rookie versus $120.00
36:54
for the gold, I'll take the $20 one so I can go and buy more
36:57
cards. So I have a video idea
37:00
percolating in my brain. I don't know how to do it yet,
37:03
but it's this idea. People have been teasing me
37:05
about all my five star autos. And I did a spreadsheet and
37:08
showed how much I've spent on all these over the years, the
37:12
decade plus I've been doing. And they're like, well, you
37:14
should just sell all those and buy a Mickey Mantle 52 tops.
37:18
And I'm like, but then my brain goes, well, then I wouldn't have
37:22
405 star autos. And, you know, it's the would
37:25
you rather, you know, have 405 star autos, Hall of Farmers,
37:31
great players or one card of, you know, Mickey Mantle 52 tops,
37:37
one or the other. And I don't like that choice.
37:40
I don't like someone a posing the question because I think
37:45
it's an irrelevant question, but I just I I'm thinking of a video
37:50
idea of how to how to pose this to an audience, but maybe
37:54
they'll answer below. I don't know.
37:56
I. Think I think your five star
37:59
auto piece of your collection is one of my favorite parts of your
38:07
collection. When you do pickups in their
38:09
five star cards, I get super excited to see those.
38:13
Why though? He's the one guy.
38:15
I know, I wonder, I I want to know what the secret formula is.
38:18
What I like about them is it's not the same players that are in
38:23
each set, the autos in the different colors.
38:27
I think those cards pop. I think those cards are hot.
38:30
I think they are really cool looking, sexy.
38:33
I I mean, sure, yeah, they're sexy cards.
38:36
They have cool autos. You have all time greats and you
38:40
have up and comers. I know that you focus on Hall of
38:43
Farmers and future Hall of Farmers, but I think that
38:47
they're cool. And the other thing that's
38:49
really been interesting as watching you do this for, I've
38:53
been watching you for, I don't know, at least six years
38:56
probably. I've been watching your channel,
38:58
Mike, as you've been doing this is tops is making the decision
39:03
to make five Star a more and more and more premium product.
39:09
And by making the current product a premium product, it
39:15
is, it is turning the older ones also into a premium product.
39:21
When something becomes big in 2026 and then you see 1 from
39:26
2020, you go, oh, that's that's that big.
39:29
That's like a national treasures, that's a five star.
39:33
The fact that they have turned that into a premium brand within
39:37
their umbrella is got to be just amazing for the values of those
39:42
cards. That would be great if I was
39:44
selling them. But no, you know what?
39:46
I. Mean though, yeah, I know it's
39:49
making the older ones a they rarely come up, but when they do
39:53
now, it's like crap, I'm having to pay up.
39:57
I just got a Bryce Harper 2012 rookie.
40:00
Wow, five star. I haven't pay for it.
40:03
That had to be a lot. For not, not as much as you
40:06
might think. For something For hold on, I'll
40:10
tell you. That seems cheap to me.
40:12
That's why I bought it 410 out the door and.
40:15
His rookie is 2011. 2012. So this is his rookie card.
40:21
It's a rookie card. That seems like a really good
40:24
deal. I don't know what those things
40:25
go for. Some people probably say he set
40:27
a new high comp that feels. Me.
40:30
That seems like a really good deal.
40:32
I mean, like we just said, those cards, like you've said 100
40:35
times, Mike, those cards right now, every card coming out of a
40:38
box is $350.00, regardless of what it is.
40:41
This is a Bryce Harper rookie with the same from the same
40:45
line. And it's numbered.
40:48
Numbered to 150. Wow, that's crazy.
40:53
I'll pull up a I'll show you a picture of.
40:56
It there's some people sleeping on some of this stuff, I think
40:59
from the late 90s, early 2000s, twenty 10s.
41:04
I think there's some stuff that is people are so there's so much
41:08
money, like you just said a second ago, Mike, There's so
41:12
much Mike Moynihan. There's so much money that is
41:15
being focused on like Shohei and Judge right now.
41:20
And by the way, I think a lot of the reason Judge's stuff has
41:23
gone up as much as it has is because Shohei's has gone up so
41:26
much. And Judge isn't Shohei, even
41:29
though Judge is great, but because so much attention is
41:34
going towards such a few names and the, the current, you know,
41:40
shiny object. I think people are sleeping on
41:43
stuff from 10/15/2020, five years ago.
41:46
I think there are some massive deals that are going to come out
41:50
of those that are being overlooked right now.
41:53
We'll pull up my screen and you can see that's the Harper I just
41:59
got. That's a great auto too.
42:02
Yeah, some of these can be weak and some of them can be strong.
42:05
This one happens to be a pretty strong one.
42:08
See the rookie card logo there? You got that under the 15370 was
42:13
hammer. It was 410.
42:14
You know, out the door, the title.
42:16
Is the title is so lacking? It's so bad, isn't it?
42:20
Oh my God. And that's an on on card auto,
42:23
right? Yeah.
42:24
Oh yeah. All five stars.
42:26
They they didn't put rookie card, they didn't put on start,
42:29
they didn't put the year. No steel.
42:33
So. I mean that Mookie calls those
42:37
wounded buffaloes. It's a bad listing with a bad
42:41
image and it's an opportunity that I mean that that thing
42:47
that's a good looking card of. A really good player.
42:51
There's your video topic for that one, Mike.
42:54
Is what here I Buffalo, Buffalo. You could call it.
43:00
That a wounded Buffalo and then you got to give Mook a shout out
43:04
in it though. Yes.
43:06
So I think that's a great topic. Bad eBay listings as an
43:12
opportunity is a great topic. So you know how I found it was I
43:16
have a safe search that just says 5 star Bryce Harper period.
43:20
Doesn't give the year nothing I I try to do my safe searches,
43:24
which is with as little verbiage as possible in order to cast the
43:28
widest net with that and so something like that that doesn't
43:33
even have the year rookie any like Mike said pointed out very
43:38
correctly. It pops up on my safe search and
43:41
I started watching it and it was an auction, which I love.
43:44
You know, that to me that's the truest form of capitalism in
43:47
cards is put it on an auction, start it at $0.99 and see what
43:51
happens. That's, you know, what are those
43:53
worth? It's worth what I just paid for
43:55
it 'cause I was the high bidder, you know, But yeah, I'm excited
44:00
to, to have that now in my 5 star collection.
44:04
So, but I'd rather have all of those than a Mantle 'cause I'm
44:08
kind of like what I'm creating is something unique.
44:12
A Mantle 52 tops grail card for most of us is awesome, but I'd
44:19
rather have I'd rather build something that's unique and
44:22
different. I mean, you don't see a lot of
44:23
guys doing 5 star autos on YouTube or social media or
44:27
anything. Maybe some guys are.
44:28
There's actually a Facebook group about it.
44:31
But I feel like you know what I'm trying to do.
44:35
This is maybe a whole different topic.
44:38
I actively think about this and I don't know if this is right or
44:41
wrong or egotistical or what I want to create.
44:44
I want to build the greatest five star autograph collection
44:47
that's out there. That's a goal.
44:50
Attainable. Measurable.
44:52
Probably not either of those things.
44:54
Do you know who has that now? I.
44:56
Have no idea. Why don't you find the Facebook
44:58
group where people are collecting?
45:00
I'm in, I'm in the Facebook group.
45:01
But what measures that, what determines that?
45:03
I don't know. And so.
45:07
Usually. Usually the biggest collectors
45:09
of something know who the bigger collectors are.
45:12
Right. There they should be in that
45:14
group I would think. There's a lot of them, but I'm.
45:19
Maybe it's you, Mike. Maybe you don't know because it
45:22
is you. Maybe these other guys are
45:24
talking about the big collector and it's you.
45:27
Well. If you don't know if you walk
45:29
into a room and you don't know who it is.
45:31
It's you, but here's the difference.
45:33
Here's what I think you're trying to say, Mike.
45:36
And I just listened to your video about how you said Neo
45:39
articulated what I wanted to say just better than I said.
45:43
You know, I think the difference is anybody with a checkbook can
45:49
can add a 52 mantle, but not anybody with a checkbook can
45:55
have your five star collection. And so the sum of the parts and
46:00
the work and the sweat and the effort and the the years of
46:06
searches and this popped up and you found it first.
46:09
Those things go in an emotional scorecard, but they don't go on
46:16
a dollar scorecard. And so giving up all of that
46:20
emotional attachment you have to what you've put into this makes
46:25
it worth more than anybody could ever pay you with money.
46:29
That's how I feel about Red Sox refractors.
46:32
Very well said. Man, you're good.
46:35
Can you come and articulate all of my points for me on my videos
46:38
that I'm not misunderstood or but is it?
46:41
Here's the question for both of you.
46:43
Is it wrong for that to be a goal?
46:46
To say I want to have the coolest best, however you define
46:51
that, can I make a? Collection I'll make a I'll make
46:54
an admission to you right now Mike, I want to have the best N
46:58
19 Pirates of the Spanish main SGC set ever and I just bought 5
47:06
raw ones. I sent them into SGC.
47:08
The grades popped yesterday and it upped my average to 3.67 and
47:15
I'm like those numbers don't really matter and these were
47:18
graded kind of harshly. It kind of matter to me on this
47:21
one. Like they kind of matter to me.
47:23
Like I have a lot that are none higher.
47:26
I have a lot that are one higher.
47:28
Like, I don't know if I have the best SG, There's a better, there
47:32
are a couple better PSA collections, but I might have
47:36
the best SGC collection right now and I'm still trying to
47:39
upgrade it because I I think that's.
47:42
I think that's healthy for your hobby enjoyment.
47:45
I think it's good if you just collect without goals, without
47:49
purpose. I think it's a very empty hobby.
47:52
Truthfully. It ends up being about dollars
47:54
and cents instead of you know, if you're not asking why am I
47:59
buying this for your if you're a collector mindset like we are, I
48:03
just go, well, I'm trying to build this awesome collection.
48:06
Why would you buy a Johan Santana?
48:08
Well, because I'm trying to build my collection and I want
48:12
that car and it's $25 or so. What?
48:15
It's another notch on the belt of the overall project of Five
48:21
Star Autos. And now I've got Johan Santana
48:24
in the collection and or whoever, right, You know, to
48:26
pick your guy. I got the Harper now.
48:28
And Harper's not a Hall of Famer yet.
48:30
We'll be. But OK, I don't have to look for
48:32
that one anymore. It's part.
48:33
It's another brick in the wall of my goal.
48:37
And you need, I think you having that goal, Mike, having his Red
48:41
Sox refractor goals, We need that to really make the hobby
48:46
more than just dollars, right? I, There was a big Blackbeard
48:56
card that sold this weekend and it, it sold for every time those
49:01
cards sell, it's a new record. And somebody bought an SGC 7 of
49:06
the Blackbeard, which is the biggest card in the set at the
49:09
Philly show for $10,000. And Orlando texted me this
49:16
morning and he said, did you see what this one went for?
49:18
And I was like, yeah, I almost bid on it, you know, and, and,
49:22
but paying attention to that and knowing what's going on with
49:26
that and oh, that guy just landed a 70, that 3.5 just so
49:30
for that, like, you're right. Like that is it.
49:35
It's not a competition, but it's a goal.
49:38
And the goal of me always hunting for that is, is is
49:45
really enjoyable for me. And I had to go with something.
49:49
I'm not a five star guy. I had to find something that
49:52
nobody even knows about or cares about.
49:54
And that's my goal thing. It's like the David sunflower
49:58
seeds set of 1989. Who has the best one?
50:01
Like I might be able to achieve that goal.
50:04
We're 50 minutes in. So we're going to have to wrap
50:07
this up because everybody's over us already at this point.
50:10
I completely hijacked your episode, I apologize.
50:12
I just want. I just want to say a little
50:14
background on on what just happened, Mike, as I explained
50:18
at the beginning, Mike and I were talking right before and he
50:20
said, I'm just going to jump in. I'm going to say something for
50:23
10 seconds, then I'm going to hop right out.
50:25
And he didn't do that. And Greg immediately converted
50:29
this into what I think is probably our best episode ever.
50:32
It was a fun one, dude. It was fun.
50:34
Really good. Yeah, it was fun.
50:36
So Mike, thanks for staying on. And Greg, very well done at the
50:42
I dropped a little surprise bomb on you and you.
50:47
I'm up for anything. Hey, you.
50:49
I'll tell you off camera in a second what happened to me
50:52
during the second period today. So nothing surprises me at this
50:56
point, guys, Sounds good. All right, Mike, thanks for
51:00
joining us. My other Mike, thanks for a good
51:03
time as always. We'll shut it down at the 51
51:06
minute mark.