Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 332: The Power of Regenerative Wildlife Agriculture with Jason Snavely

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Ep. 332: The Power of Regenerative Wildlife Agriculture with Jason Snavely · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: brought to you by Onyx. Today in the show, we
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: are continuing with our focus on land improvement and conservation,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: which we also tackled last week in our Back forty conversation.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And it's on that note that I want to start
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: because last spring, when I first started preparing for this
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: whole Back forty project of sorts, this huge undertaking, you know,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I set out to expand the boundaries of kind of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: what I know about land improvement and management for wild life,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: because you know, up to that point, I had a
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: pretty solid understanding of projects that could help me get
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: more dear to use a property, and a pretty good
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: understanding of how to set things up to improve my hunting.
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  Speaker 1: But when it came to the bigger picture, when it
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: came to the larger vironment, you know, the soil, the air,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of the water, the plants, that whole ecosystem within which
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I was operating in the deer too, that stuff I
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: wasn't so sure about. And we like to talk a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: lot as hunters that hunting is conservation, and you've heard
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: me talk about this before. I love that idea, but
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: it's easy for that to become just an idea and
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: no action if we depend on hunting being conservation just
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: by default. I worried that we're missing the boat. So
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I got to thinking, you know, is there more that
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  Speaker 1: I could be doing with the land than just killing
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  Speaker 1: deer off it and just trying to tweak a property
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  Speaker 1: to help me kill even more dear That was That
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was this question that I have been asking myself more
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: and more and more, and it led to a whole
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: bunch of reading and research, and that eventually led me
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole which led to the topic of
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: regenerative agriculture. It's this new way of approaching how we
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: managed land and plant crops that could result in not
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: just high quality dear habitat, but also healthier plants and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: soil and wildlife and cleaner air and water. And this
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  Speaker 1: this seemed like the natural next step and in a
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: perfect new world to dive into. I guess as I
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: was begetting this whole learning process around the back forty property.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So that's what I did. And it's been about a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: year since those original explorations. If you've watched the back
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: forty series over on the YouTube channel for Mediator, or
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: if you've listened to any of the podcasts this fall,
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  Speaker 1: you know that I've kind of started this process. I've
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: tried implementing some of these new regenerative AGG principles on
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: that property and another farm that I can manage a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: little bit. And as you might have heard, things didn't
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: go the way I hoped they might in a lot
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of ways. Um, it was tough. I had a lot
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of challenges, I had some failures, but I did learn
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a lot. And and that's why this podcast today has
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: me so excited, because I feel like I'm ready to
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: learn more. I'm ready to take that next step. It's
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: year two, and helping me to do that today is
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: another dear guy who's been captivated by the opportunity presented
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  Speaker 1: by regenitative AGG and its applications to wildlife management, and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: that's Jason Snavely. Jason is a wildlife biologist and consultant.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: He is the host of the drop Time podcast. He's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a calumnist for Peterson's Bow Owning and just an all
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: around fascinating guy. He's someone that had followed from Afar
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: for a number of years and recently, I don't know
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: how long has been, maybe the last five years or so.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: He's dove full bore into this same thing that I'm
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: now just starting to explore, this idea of regenerative agriculture.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: It's applications for deer hunters and managers, and he's gone
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: to a whole new level and start developing a number
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: of resources and seed blends and best practices for those
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: who are looking to implement these types of practices on
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: their own place, trying to improve the soil and the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: environment and the wildlife health and hunting. So that's what
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: today's episode is all about. I'm excited about it. I'm
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: thrilled that you're here tuning in to hear all about it.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So without further do, let's take a quick break and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: then get right to my chat with Jason snave Lee.
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  Speaker 1: But before we do that, two quick things. Number One,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this whole back forty project that we were
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: doing over the last year. If somehow you've been under
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: a rock and you miss that, you gotta check it out.
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  Speaker 1: We have an eight part series over on the Meat
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Eater YouTube channel. The documents everything we've done this property
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  Speaker 1: so far. The original impetus for the idea, the idea
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: of how can we have a great deer hunting property
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  Speaker 1: and a property managed for the whole suite of wildlife,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: for biodiversity, for healthier environment, all those things, bees, birds, bucks,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: everything in between. That series is on the Meat Eater
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  Speaker 1: YouTube channel. You gotta check it out. It's the most
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: recent episode, came out at the end of the year.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: It's got a whole bunch of hunts, It's got a
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of different things that go on that let
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: up to the hunt. And am proud of it, so
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I hope you'll give it a watch. All right. I
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: am excited to have today's guest with me because as
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Jason sna eavily and I think we've got a lot
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to talk about. So welcome to the show. Jason, Hey, Mark,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: thanks a lot. I appreciate you inviting me. I'm super excited.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I hope you have a long time. Any time we
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: talk about dirt man, that's that's my passion. I'm ready. Good. Well,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: this has been something that over the last year so
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I've been getting increasingly interested in so I'm this this
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: is the time of year that I'm starting to rethink
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: everything that I tried last year and all the things
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I want to try in different ways this year. So
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: this conversation is perfectly timed. Um. But before we get
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: into the ten thousand different topics, I want to pick
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: your brain about and and and just I told you
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: this will be about an hour. I'm actually planning on
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: about six hours, so I hope you don't have anything
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: planned today before we do that. Though, for those that
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: aren't aware of who you are what you do, can
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you give us the quick rundown of kind of your story,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: how you got to this point, what it is you
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: do in this hunting world. Yeah, absolutely so. I like
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you said the names Jason Snavely, I am a certified
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: wildife biologist, and I grew up in Pennsylvania, probably like
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: all the listeners and yourself hunting fishing, just you know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: phrasing the outdoors and we're a lot of my high
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: school classmates struggled with, you know, what in the world
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: did they do with the rest of their lives. He
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: was always just percent clear that you know, I belong
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: in nature and the science and the management part of it, um,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: not just the killing. When I was in high school,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but the science and the management part of it really
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: intreated me. So I needed to say. I went to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Mississippi State University, which at the time and still is, uh,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: just absolutely impressive as a university with the research. The
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: professors were, you know, the best of the best, all
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: star professors, and in all of the species that I
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: was interested in, primarily game species, white tailed deer, wild turkeys, quail.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And I've worked on a lot of projects with these
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  Speaker 1: animals down there, and uh, really just always kept coming
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: back to what is factually the most important and this
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  Speaker 1: is this is true, and this is not just my opinion,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: but the most important game animal um economically in the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: United States is the white tailed deer. So, you know,
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  Speaker 1: white tail management, ecology, biology, it just has always intrigued me.
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  Speaker 1: Always studied, even in high school, the peer reviewed thick,
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  Speaker 1: thick literature on white tails, just trying to understand why
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  Speaker 1: of all this stuff. And you know, as soon as
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I graduated, I had done an internship in in South
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Texas and done some other work, and as soon as
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I graduated again it was clear that, you know, I've
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: got this entrepreneurial drive to do this privately, which is
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: really less intense. Percent of my peers, most of them
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: are you know, working for Ducts Unlimited or continuing on
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: in post post grade work. And I just I knew
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to work with private landowners. Love educating people
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  Speaker 1: on this topic, and uh, you know, I've been doing
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  Speaker 1: that since my nineteenth year. I just so it's just
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: so so lucky and fortunate. I just booked up fully
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: for the twenty year and started booking twenty one, which
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I'm pleased because in the early stages my banker looked
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: at me and laughed and I said, kid, you you
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: can't get people to pay you to do this. So
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: very very fortunate, um, when it comes to that. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: so you know, as far as the regenerative part, so
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  Speaker 1: I don't get going here on a tangent. I can
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: if you want to jump in there and interrupt me,
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  Speaker 1: that's fine. If not, I can kind of tell you how.
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  Speaker 1: After about fifteen sixteen years, I realized one day it's
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  Speaker 1: it's not it sounds cliche, this isn't a story, It's true. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: Something just clicked that that the biologists has missed the
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  Speaker 1: by analogy. Yeah, and that's that this this topic is
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  Speaker 1: exactly why I'm particularly excited to chat with you, because
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  Speaker 1: because I too stumbled on this idea of regenerative agriculture
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  Speaker 1: UM when I took on the Back forty project last year,
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  Speaker 1: which which I know you're a little bit familiar with.
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  Speaker 1: And so so I've been diving into this. I've been
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  Speaker 1: reading books, I've been listening to folks, some of the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: same people I think that you've been working with, like
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  Speaker 1: Gabe Brown. Um. But but yeah, tell me the story
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  Speaker 1: of how you stumbled on this and why this idea
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  Speaker 1: of regenerative wildlife agriculture, which I know you're talking about
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: a lot these days, why that's so exciting to you. Yeah,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: r W A generator wilife agriculture. You know of my
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: consulting visits this year for regenerative while at A an
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  Speaker 1: ecosystem restoration is really one of the primary goals, and
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: that just excites to get beyond belief. But before I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: get too far into the story, so I just want
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: to acknowledge you and and thank you, and see Eve
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and the whole Mediator crew, and of course your podcast. Congratulations.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: First of all, what an awesome podcast. I record podcasts,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: as you know, and I know what's involved. So to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: crank out as much content in as many episodes as
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you have is just just to me, it's just purely awesomeness, um,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, to give I appreciate you giving me
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the platform. You know, this is my nineteenth season as
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: a consultant, and I have committed one percent. After traveling
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: the country and and really the you know, focusing on
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the globe. What's going on with this? Initially I thought
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it would not work. It's it's just craziness. Um. But
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: so so thank you for the platform to really push
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: this and promote this. But you know, just like everybody
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: as as a deer hunter, dear biologists, UM, I didn't
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: grow up a farmer. In fact, you know, we we
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: were lucky to have a sort of a family farm
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: through marriage to hunt about four or five acres growing up. Um,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, we weren't farmers. My dad wasn't a farmer.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So I learned how to farm. After a couple of
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: years of consulting, I was able to buy some of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: my own property a hundred acres in Pennsylvania, and I
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: learned how to farm from conventional farmers. Now, you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: as we talk about conventional farming, modern farming by no
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: means in my you know, slimmy mud Adam, I've been there.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm just as guilty, probably more guilty um at
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: ecosystem destroying management practices, as as most of the farmers are.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: But I was said that, you know, from from buying
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the tractor, to the tillas equipment, to the spraying equipment,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to the fertility programs and everything, I learned from the
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  Speaker 1: largest farmer in my county who is as my neighbor.
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  Speaker 1: So you know, for twelve fifteen years we were heavy,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: heavy tillage um you know, spraying everything could imagine. I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: was a sucker. I teach people now about the bug
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and a jug everybody's looking for, you know, the the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: energy shot for the soil and the quick fix. I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: was a sucker for that stuff. In fact, my seed
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: company sells um one of those products, and I encourage
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: people not to buy it. It's just as we get
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: into this a little bit later, you'll find out how
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: we truly fixed soil. So you know, there was one day.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I know this sounds cliche, you and I were talking
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: about this earlier, but there was one day, and I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: can remember it vividly you know, there was about this
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: time of year. It's you know, probably missed February, I
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: guess early February. I rolled out into my one of
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: my fields, and of course it had been completely the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: vegetated by the deer, and it was probably a primarily
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a brashica type, you know, with some cereals, maybe some
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: of the gums, but there was so much naked soil
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: and these rock boulders that were the size of my
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: head mark a kids. You just you know, people ask
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: me what kind of soils I have, and I'd say
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it's rock. I don't know. Occasionally I have dirt between
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the rocks. And I sat there and I looked at
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: this dirt I had. I had a college problem and soils.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Who would he would deduct you a significant amount if
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you use the word dirt, but it is dirt. I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: hate to break it to him. And there was no
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: life in this dirt. And I hadn't heard at this
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: point about this regenerative egg movement and about soil restoration.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: But I sat there and I just looked at it,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and I remember thinking I'm failing. There's something, you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: something's not right. And I went back to my office
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and you know, one of the things you learned as
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: a field biologists is you learn how to observe. And
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: then you mentioned Gabe Brown. I think Cave when agree
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: with this a hundred ten percent, and he he actually
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: took me to the Thanks to Cave, I am now
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I believe at the PhD level of just pure observation
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: between Gave and Dr Fred prevents them. But when you
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: go out and you just observe nature, you use your eyes,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you use your ears, you know, touch things, you smell things.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: It's funny. I was watching your backboard and you guys
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: were reverting and um, you know, if if you go
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: out on one of my client properties, who has been
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: under our our wut A for three years, your ears
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: can just they hear things you've never heard, and you
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: could you could have grown up in that habitat and
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you notice things that just look different. So I'm gonna
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: try to cut back on this part. But this is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: really what This was the catalyst that launched me into this,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: this questioning of you know what, what what are we
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: doing wrong? Why why do my soils look so dead?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Why are they like a drug addict so addicted to
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: me constantly dumping synthetic commercial fertilizers into them. So that's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: really what started me on this path. And then of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: course me being the research type i'm, I was talking
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to people from Australia and South Africa and of course
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know Kate and Ray Archilta, Alan Williams, m Rick Haney,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the whole, the whole crew. So so tell me this then,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: because here's like I came to this with a bigger
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: picture goal. Because I was taking on this project, I
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: knew we wanted to try to approach our habitat management
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and our deer management in a different way than usual
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that would be more beneficial to the whole ecosystem. And
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: so I was kind of proactively seeking out these different ideas.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: But your average deer hunter out there, you're average guy
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: or girl that's got a little spot they hunt, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: they're they're kind of, at least at the outset, they're
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: wanting better deer hunting. And then maybe they want bigger, dear,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: older deer, healthier dear and maybe if we get really
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: lucky they do that long enough, then they realize, you know, wow,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: As I gotten involved in some of this management, I've
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: learned that i'm I can help improve and and and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: benefits so many other aspects of this property in the ecosystem.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: So so you might get to that bigger picture view
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: of things, which which I feel like the longer you
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: do this, the more you start to get drawn down
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that path. And that's that's it's a fun thing. It's
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a fulfilling thing. But I know there's people listening right
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: now that are thinking, why should I care about dirt
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: or soil that much? I'm listening to this podcast because
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to, you know, make my my property
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: better for shooting deer, whatever it might be. So, so
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: what let's start the ground level as far as why
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: does this conversation matter? Uh, two people that are approaching
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: us from a deer hunting perspective, and then I want
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to dive into all the house and wise and and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the deeper aspects too. But but let's just lay a
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: quick groundwork. How how can this conversation help that hunter? Man?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: You're you're sharp. I was saving the good stuff for
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the end. But to make a good point. Um, you
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: know a lot of people think that I worked only
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with professional athletes and entrepreneurs and people who have thousands
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: of acres, and that's just not true. You can improve
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you know, your forty your forty or sixty three acres,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: whatever it is in southeastern Michigan. That that's a that's
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a fairly large chunk of property. Um, you can improve
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: a very very small acre or less case of property
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and kill more white tails than most guys who are
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: just you know, recklessly quote unquote managing acres. So that's
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a great question. And and and it's the question that
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I asked. You know, my initial path down or generative
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: A or restoring the ecosystem really wasn't meant for my clients.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I'll be selfish here. It was. I was looking at
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: my own dirt. And you know, as I got down
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: this path, I can remember thinking to myself, how the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: average guy who really just wants a U target face
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: environment right, um, and to see a lot of white
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: tails and preferably mature white tails from the stand or
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: on the stock, how is he gonna care about all this?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: So for the first year or two, everyone's really trying
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to hush about it. Traveled with some soil conferences and
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you know, of course talked to Give and a lot
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of these guys, and as I started to hear how
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: their properties progressed ecologically. I got excited because I realized
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that this is the next step in managing a property.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: So let me give you an example. When I started
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to mention my banker laughing at me, tell me I'd
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: never pay the bills, um, you know. And as a
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: wilife consultant, I knew immediately that I would have to
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: constantly strive to find as many tools and techniques as
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: we call them as in the wildlife world to help
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: my clients become the island right this this sort of
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: um unique out fire in their neighborhood, and it could
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: be anything. Maintaining an open mind just constantly strived to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: make it better, whether it was you know, managing with
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: with bullets and arrows, or managing the habitat, crushing the brush,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: human behavior, hunter behavior, those sorts of things. The more
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I got into regenerating my own eco system, my own farm,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: the more I realized this is for everyone. And let
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: me give you an example. We we love turkey hunt,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: we love growing deer, and don't get me wrong, we
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: love to shoot here. But turkey hunting for myself and
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: my son anyways, is our sturdy He completed the turkey
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: slam at eight. He's just ate up with with calling
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and shooting turkeys. In two thousands ten, when my daughter
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: was born, I have the last trail cam clips, video
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: clips of turkey polts on my property. Now, we would
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: get long bears every year, you know, coming and go on.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: So we would he would kill you know, a long
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: thead or two a year, and everything was good, um,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but we weren't seeing any poults. And this concerned me,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: obviously as a biologist, and it just it puzzled me,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you know. So I looked into all of these. You know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: isn't the the poultry manure, the poultry litters, that the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: pest aside, it's the herbison. What is it? After the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: third year of my regeneratives egg adventure, I realized that
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: my last step I've gone though till like getting rid
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: of synthetic fertilizers is so so very easy. It's crazy.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: But I was. I was still you mentioned the word we,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: which I had tryed not to use that word, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: more looking into that more at a plant, I was
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I was relying on using selective herbicides to maintain these
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: beautiful plots because of the fresh yer. Primarily that clients
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: come visit me. And if a guy come to the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: contractor's house, he doesn't want to see bull board of missing.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: He doesn't want to see trim, you know, crooked or
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: nails halfway out. I always felt this pressure to maintain
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: this hyper manicured property. And then I realized from from
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Gabe and some others that wow, these these herbicides are
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: registered as bio sides, as antibiotics. I cut them out.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I filled my spray with the pink RV r V
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: juice and he just committed. And that pinks. You still
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: sitting there today after I'm not kidding you, one full
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: season of doing this. A friend of mine and I
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: were riding around on the ranger and we flushed three
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: turkey hands with I believe it was six or seven polls.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: And let me say so, I realized most of your
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: listeners to see that on a regular basis. But we're
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: in a heavily intensive a area. Um spraying these cultivate
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: is just typical conventional ag We hadn't seen polton years,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: nine years, ten years, and so when I flushed these birds,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I wonder if there is something
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: going on here that's the wildlife, and kid told me
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: they one when I said, I can't sell this to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a guy gave who's paying me to come produce a
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: target rich environment. It's not gonna work. And he said,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: explained to me while this is why the state agency
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: has called me asking me why deer radio colored deer
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: are traveling over fifty miles todious of my nangi and
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: mocorn when and these are mature books, when it doesn't
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: make any sense as a prey species to travel that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: far to consume a crane that covers the landscape in
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: that that's part of the country. So you know that
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you can answer your question. I was the very first
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: skeptic when I thought about selling this to my clients.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I thought, man, you're gonna sell yourself out of a job.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And you know, the neat thing is I have found
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: that that clients, people who buy property have a vested interests,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: as you now know with your back forty project. We
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: want to know, we want to do good. We just
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: we want to do good for everything. And I've been
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: absolutely astonished by the number of clients and the new
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: clients who call tax email constantly and they're trying to
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: understand things like our buscular microrizal fungi and how you know, soil, microbes,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: media p h. I mean, these are guys who own businesses,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're lineman with the local power company.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: This isn't their work, right, it's crazy science e stuff
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: is not their world. And you know, so people are
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: just eight up with it, so absolutely optimistic that this
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: can work on even those managing the gardens. Definitely. It
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: is soil is the it's it's the building block of everything, right,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: That's where all of this starts. The soil is the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: foundation of the house. And then you're putting up walls,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: which are various plants that are growing on top of
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that soil, within that soil, and then the deer and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the turkeys are feeding on on the plant life or
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the bug life that's living within that ecosystem, and then
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we're feeding on the deer and it's it is all connected.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: But it has to start there in many cases, with
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the soil. And you talked about how it's not well,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: there's this difference wheen, dirt and soil um and I've
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit, but I'd love to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: kind of hear your take on it. Can you just
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: talk about what healthy soil looks like. I mean, I'll
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: have one more thing I'll add is that I know
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: one of the interesting visual representations you can take a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: look at if you just care about deer. If you
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: take a look at the map of the United States
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and you map out where the highest boon and Crockett,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: you know density of bucks has taken, you're gonna see
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: a pretty close match to where the highest quality quality
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: soils are in the United States. Right, you've probably seen
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: that map that the QT you may put out some
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: number of years ago. I don't think it's a accident
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that bigger deer tend to be where better soil is. Now,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: that's not the only reason why we're doing this, but
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to lay that was one thing, as
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: like a little carrot. If you are excited about seeing
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: bigger deer or older deer, good soil is good for that.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Good soil is important for so many other things too,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: And I want to understand what that looks like and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: how we achieve that. Jason, tell me a little bit
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: more about you know. That's a great that's a great point.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you hit that two things come to mind
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: real quick. Uh. Number one, I had synthetic fertilizer salesman
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: telling me, as you know, we had clients canceling seven
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar orders. Um, you know, just left and right.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: My fertilizer salesman was just off the hook, crazy calling
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: me and you threatening my clients. And I was going
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to destroy the deer. Heard he built, right, he built
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the deer herb. But since that he fertilized. But you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: after three or four years of going down the regenerative
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: path on my small you know, back for you if
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: you will, which is only uh, I'm here to tell
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you we we we kill what we call. You've heard
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: investors talked about op M other people's money. There's nothing
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: better to invest in other people's money, right, A lot
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of pressure, you know, it really is a lot of pressure.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: But still we we like to kill, as me and
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: my kids laugh, we'd like to kill O. P. D.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Other people's buck. I don't want to watch the buck
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: all summer eat my groceries and then have him wander
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: up the road and get shot. I'll be honest with you,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: that's just that that my livelihoods depends on me fighting that.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: So we have seen after creating this what I'll get
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: into this here in a minute, but after creating and
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: regenerating the ecosystem on my farm, and that's everything from
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the insects of these that you know, just focusing on
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the biology of the soil, just the entire yo system,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: we have seen more dear that we also call welfare dear.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: These are dear that I could kill fifty does a year, right,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: but I was trained as a biologist, would have to
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: kill those, kill those. Maintain a balanced sex ratio. That's
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: all great and a textbook, and on a property that's
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: completely dysfunctional and de created. But when you're in island,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: you've developed something special. You get dear box those fonds
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: coming from miles and miles. And my son shot a
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: five and a half year old ten points this year,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: which I'm not joking when I say this. My thirteen
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: year old son of my nine year old daughter said
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to me Dad this year, they said that this is
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: getting too easy. Now. The reason I tell you that
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: it's not to suit my own horn or stroke myself,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: but it's because when I started with this region thing,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I would sit out there in the field and just
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: struggle four heads of palms, saying, and you know, my
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: kids have killed bucks every year. We're proud of that.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Mature bucks three and a half, four and a half
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: pluses with some five and six year old acres. And
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: have we attacted, you know, heavily hunted state with neighbors
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that yes, they believe it's you know this brown is down.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: There's no special thing going on here in Columbia County, Pennsylvania.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: They're all the same. I thought this is gonna end it,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and I am I really primarily focused on sol health
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: so much that I'm going to give up this incredible
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: hunting on this property. But I decided to go for it.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Goal in and my kids staffed this year just shaking
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: their heads. And I've worn them before the seasons. The guys,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the things they're gonna look different. You may not even
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: see a dear just maybe the year. It just wants
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you to understand that. And they were they were okay
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: with that, as we said, for the first thing they said,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and they climbed up, they like came they said that,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: what am I looking at it? It looks like a jungle.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: What have you done with this? Once for soybean field
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: so you know, I'm going down that path before clients,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: just to make sure. But I'm here to tell you
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that the dear know it um. If you ever studied
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Dr Fred prevents his work. It's just an amazing human being.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And this nutritional wisdom which i'd like to get into
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a bad time. I believe firmly in the nutrient density
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of plants. Change draws here from from miles away. So
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: just wanted to inject that real quick. But I'll get
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: talking into what soiled is that if everybody hasn't fallen
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: asleep yet and do you want to wake come up
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: real quick, jump into it. And they're listening. They're listening
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: because because this stuff it's tactical and and it's also
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: philosophical in a way to I think that you can
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: approach this conversation. We're having a tactical standpoint, like how
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: this is going to help you a better hunting, And
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I think there's also myself and some people that are
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: listening to this from like a philosophical standpoint, which is
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: how do you do right by the land? And I
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: think what's cool about this conversation is you can achieve
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: both those things. So that's why I'm awake at least,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, and I'm thinking to drink of water.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And I just wanted to know if sitting on the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: edge of my chair, I'm so excited a whot to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: talk about this stuff. So so soil, this is where
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the transition changes. It's a paradigm shift, it's a mental change.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: And what dirt is, Okay, let's focus on what soil is.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Soil is this living, breathing, fully functioning ecosystem. Okay, it's
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: not just this uh plant growing medium where you dump
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: fertilizer in like like I once thought, right, where you
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: just dump fertilize your and you put a little bit
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: of water in there and you make sure the sun
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: shining on it. That that's how you do it. No,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and you know. Most of what we currently know in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: practice right now regarding growing plants centers around how plants
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: respond to synthetic inputs applied to dysfunctional soil. So when
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: someone tells me, hey, j you're wrong this bug and
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the drug works, I say, that's great, and your com
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: it be degraded soils, but it won't work in my
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: fully functioning, biologically active soils. So once we start to
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: look at soils as a biological system, things change and
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: this is what changed for me and obviously on the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: wilife biologist. So this is why I think. Um, so
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: many clients asked me at dinner, Shay, why have you
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: get Why have you crabbed onto this? So if you're
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: crazy about this stuff, you've forgotten about and their point
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: restrictions and managing sex ratios and a structure and estimating
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of white tails deer on the hooks and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease and all this very important stuff and
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I have not. But there's nothing that has impacted in
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen years their property. And we're only four three or
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: four years into this. The properties that I managed small
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and large and regenerative wilife agriculture. So when we start
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: to look at the soils this way, we understand. You know,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: there's this big term bio mimicry. I don't know if
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: you've heard this yet in your your research from region I,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: but biomimicry. And I think that my good friends in Texas,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Dr Rick Haney. I'll be with Rick next week, UM
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and at Soil Health you in Salanta, Kansas. But you know,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: bio mimicry is really what we're doing. We're farming in
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: nature's image. So instead of imposing our will in nature
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and working against nature, i e. Pesticide, chemicals, herb besides pillage,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that we'll talk about here soon, we
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: look at nature and observed. There's that observed again, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: we utilize we kind of work with nature. So you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: one of the things that gave told me up front.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: You've probably heard Peach say this, and I had a
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: huge impact on me. He said, Jason, your farm is
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a direct reflection of you. And I thought to myself,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that's that's not good. You know, I'm looking at completely naked, soiled,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: dead They're not there's no light in them. Wow. And
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, I went through a series of some
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: health issues. So because I work a lot, immune system
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: has deteriorated, and you know, of course I get fit
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: by ticks all over North America. So you know that
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: we blame it online disease and associated take pourn illness,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: but I think it's probably the diet when you're in
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: an airport, in the whole nine yards. But it's starting
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: to click to me that anyway, ante I learned about
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: all this stuff with the dump biology making me healthy
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: and fit just makes sense. So let let me throw
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: something out there. You know, everybody likes statistics, right um,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you know over nine When I tell clients is there,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: they don't believe me. But over ninety of land life
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: on land resize beneath our boots in the soil. And
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: if you ever follow Dr Christine Jones, you should. She've
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: once said, I love this quote from her. She said, well,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of doing off the top of my head,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: so but she said something about we're standing on the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: rooftop of another world, and all of that stuff kind
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: of came back to me and and you know, from
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: different avenues, and I thought, wow, if there's this much
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: biology in the soil, why are we spending all of
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: our time managing the biology above the soil, worrying about
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: these things sex ratio, the whole nine yards recruitment race.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: But we're killing the life in the soil. And that's
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: when the six Principles of soil health. Many of you
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: may know him at the five I think everybody has succepted.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: The sixth one is as context when we can talk
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: about that here in a little bit. But that's when
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: these principles of soil health and regenerative a kind of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: came in. So again, when you look at soils as
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: this living, breathing, fully functioning ecosystem, it will be easy
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: for you to give up the synthetic fertilizers. It will
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: be much easier for you to give up the caustic chemicals,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the pest society and secticide, the herbicide. Let's talk about
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: those principles of soil health because if we're if we're
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: accepting the premise that having healthy soil is going to
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: help our wildlife, our dear and then subsequently are hunting. Uh,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: tell me what the principles of soil health are that
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: we are shooting for. Yeah, and I think, you know,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll fly over these, but I think everybody has
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: probably heard these by now. But for those who haven't,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you know that you'll hear it ofttimes. It's the five
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: principles of regenerating the soil ecosystem or restoring the soil ecosystem.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: And number one really just hits this disturbance thing, is
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: limiting disturbance, and that could be chemical or physical. So
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: you know, most of us think and talk about a pillage.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: You know, running a plow through soil. That's a major,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: major destructive disturbance, I think chemical disturbance. You know anything
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: obviously we put into our sprayer. Not teasing you, but
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I kind of am. I'm just watching the back for
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: it this morning, and I saw that sprayer something. And
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I also heard Steve mentioned pull how it up? Which
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: man that was at one time too um. And by
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the way, for those of you who say that you'd
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: like to plow the dirt because you like to smell it,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: if you've ever smelled a good soil, I mean a
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: David Brant from Ohio, no tiller since the seventies, Gay Brown.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: When you smell a really good soil, you'll change your
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: mind real quick. So anyway, limit the servant. The second
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: one I think I have found to be so positively impactable,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: which is armor the soil. So when you build soil armor,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: you do so many things. Number one, you cover it
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: with plant residue, which obviously recycles those in those organic
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: infield future and trick back into your system. But you
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: smother and her weed seems essentially hating your reliance. Extremely
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: important obviously, you you know, minimize or eliminate soil erosion. Um,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: you provide habits at when you cover your soil with
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: with a grass, let's say a sorghum stud in grass
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: or or a serial rye, you provide a massive amount
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: of habitat for the bugs, the biology, both macro and
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: micro biology and your soils. Then moving on diversity, and
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: this one here caused the you know, I'm deeply rooted
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: in the food plot industry, have been since the beginning. Uh.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: It changed the way I completely changed the way I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: look at Okay, it's the wildlife begar culture. So diversity
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: means offering the major plant type grasses, forded lagoons, brassicas
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: all in one ara again and that that just the
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: way that the different plant types offer species, symbiotics, symbiotics, relationships.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: It's just it blows your mind. Um. And then living roots,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: so you know we think of um most of the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: times that we have this growing season and then we
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: have this dormant season. Well that's just not true. You know,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: cereal rye can Germany in negative to three attempts it can.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: You know, it's root active all winter long. Um. You know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: so we want to maintain this living root in the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: soil year round. You can't do that with village. You
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: can't do that by spraying cost the herbicides. Um. You know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and and people don't realize that we talk about soil
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: organic matter. You know, seventy percent of soil organic matter
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: comes from the roots, not the above ground plant. Excuse me. So.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: So the fifth one is animal and integration. Not for
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the fraziers and those guys and the cattleman. This one's
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: so simple. You know. I gave te this man, always
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: talk the game, and I said, gave I'll never get
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: my soils to the point that you have them, because
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not a cowboy. I'm a dear guy. If I can't,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I can't manage cattle. I travel too much. I love cattle,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: love bites, and I'm still not committed to not getting now.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I want them in the worst way. But the management
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: and the logistics is a bit of a hurdle right
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: now at this stage of my life. But when you
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: integrate animals, you know, the stopping, the trampling, the dung,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the urine, the droll when they knit a plant off
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: and they drooled, the just the stimulation of the biology
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and the soil is way more than we understand at
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: this point. But you know what, it's not a bad
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: thing that this this animal integration thing, because when you
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: throw the sixth principle, which is context, I start to realize, say,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I do have animals integrated into my system,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: and actually I think I have more animals in the
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: form of wildlife integrated in my system. Then gave us
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: to his his maybe huge cattle that are obvious on
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: landscape when you see them walking around. But you know,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I've got fear and you know recently that this context
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: and animal integration says a real quick side point. As
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: soon as the season ends. Here, of course, we don't
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: put corn out or any grains out during the season,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: but as soon as the season ends or we've committed
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: to no longer hunting, I'll go out and I'll supplement
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: some grains, non GMO grains on different fields. And I've
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: got it set up so that i can move either
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the theater or I'll use a spreader and i'll super
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: hyper focus high identities of theory. I'm talking. You know,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: some of my peers will kill me when I hear this,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: but I've had my cameraman tell me he counted nine
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and lost track. Um, all consuming plants and of course
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: supplemental grain in a one or two acre area. I
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: can already hear the c w D guys and all
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: the same people who have helped UM cause chronic wasting
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: disease behind you know, research enclosures. But no, it's white
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: tale of social animals. And I'm not I'm not concerned
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: with that at all. But when you look at the
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: trampling of all of these deer and the dumb and
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: obviously yurin and the brows, that's animal integration as finest.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So those are the six UM and I kind of
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I went over a super fast. I know it's not
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: like I didn't. But if someone were to staple those
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: up on their their both and board and uh, you know,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: really asked themselves before they go out and do something
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: in their food plots or in their egg fields. Am
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I falling under one of these six now? Or am
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I breaking the rules? I think that's a pretty good
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: guiding UM set of principles. Yeah and so and so,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: like I alluded to earlier, I discovered these ideas last year,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and so decide all right, I'm gonna try this. I'm
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: going to start to try this at least so what
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I did, uh, And I did this on the back
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: forty property and then one of the property that I
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: have the ability to do some planting on um I
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: was able to get my hands on a no tail
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: drill from our TP outdoors, So for the first time ever,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I got to use no tell drill. For the first
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: time ever, I planted blends of species rather than monocultures
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: of species, and I planted things that would allow me
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: to next year hopefully not need to use herbicides the
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: way I would typically. So this year, at least from
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: conversations I've had with some other folks like Grant Woods,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and they say, kind of started. You might still need
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: to kill off the initial weeds, but then you can
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: start this rotation. So I planted things so so yeah,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: maybe you can tell me how to do it otherwise.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: But that's what I tried this past years. I I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: use some herbicide the first time because we're in a
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: brand new place with a bunch of invasive Mayor's tail.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Was able to get some stuff planted that that, hopefully
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: with the blend we plan next year I'll have some
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: cereal ride will be coming up in the spring, and
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and then you start this rotation when we we talked
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: about this last year a little bit in the podcast,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: where you can have this cover crop essentially in place,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the controls weeds the following year, so that you can
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: then plant what you want over top of that once
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: you terminate with a cramper or something like that. UM. Now,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: now all that is to say, so I use no
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: tell drill, I reduced how much fertilizer was putting down,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: hopefully eventually be able to completely remove that and have
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: a rotation hopefully in place now where I don't need
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: to use herbside next year. And I planned the diversity.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: So here's what happened though. So I tried all that,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: what I got. What I got was my worst food
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: plot year I think I've had yet. Now I don't
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: want to I don't want to. I don't want to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: say I want to qualify that and qualify that, UM
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: simply by fact of it was different than what I've
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: had in past years. And I think a lot of
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: it is simply in the execution, right, I've never done
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: it this way before. I've never used a no til
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: drill before. UM. I guarantee I didn't calibrate it exactly
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: right way. I guarantee I probably got depths wrong or
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I got there's all these little things. I just don't
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: know how to do quite yet because it's just different
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: from what I've done exactly. So what I ended up
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: with in the biggest area this this showed up was
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: on the back forty. I tried to plant this diverse
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: blend of species, and I got almost none of that
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: diversity come up. I I mostly got just uh oats
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and some other cereal grains like that coming up. I
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: got very little of the other species showing up at
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: least that first you know, that first growing season, the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: fall um not nearly the growth I would expect. Um,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: didn't get the drawing power I was hoping for all
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: these things. And on my other farm I got it
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: was definitely better, but didn't get as much of the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: brassicas that typically would get when I'm planting. You, of course,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: monocultures of Braska's versus this thing I blend, so I
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: didn't get the mid to late season attraction they usually do.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: So all this is to say I tried things. It
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: didn't turn out exactly the way I thought it would,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: but I realized there's a lot of different factors going.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: And so what I'm I bring all this up to
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: ask you what are some of the common is this
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: to be expected the first year? You're gonna have some
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: challenges like that? What are some things that typically happen?
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: What should I be thinking about this point? Yeah, so
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I'm taking notes now, um, because you just you you
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: nailed it. You hammered it right there. So first of all,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: this is a process, right. Um, I've seen you in
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the videos. You're a pretty thick guy. And Steve's the
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: same way. You know, he's good exercise. Uh, you know,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: we all like to hunt, so you have to stay
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: in shape for that. That's a process, right. It doesn't
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: happen overnight. So you know, Gabe, I hate to keep
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: bringing up Gabe because this head is big enough, but
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Gab Gabe has the best quote. When you can YouTube, Um,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: you can't think of what video is, but um, geez,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: you can YouTube and and this his quote goes something
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: like this, before you head down the regentative a past,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: you need to reach down into your drawers and find
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: out if you have a pair. And I think it
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: was um, jeez at Lance Plastic. I can't remember whose
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: video was in but that. So so I'm telling you,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I'm challenging you as friends in the end reginatic world
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: did to me, and as I do to my clients.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Do that reach down in and say do I really
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: have a set? Or does all just this just sounds
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: cool and sexy on YouTube, you know? And I think
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously you've got this passion in this drive
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: for it. So so that was my slash. Now I'll
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: stroke you a little bit and I'll say, listen, you
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: didn't think you did a good job, and I'm gonna
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: disagree with you. I think you did a perfect job.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: You did a fine job. And and beyond at you
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: are learning how to observe and read nature. So you know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I used to keep going back to my line disease.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: But I went to a line specialist and said, buddy,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I've got a lot of work to do, a lot
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: of consulting to do. I gotta make money, I gotta
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: take for properties. Fix me now, And he said, sure, here,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I'm right you. This script. That script will kill all
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: your gut bacteria. And he did it, and he wanted
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: me to stay on antibiotics, uh, you know, for two
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: or three years until my symptoms went away and uh
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and and they some of them did. All my joints
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: fell great. I was running half marathons killing sheep, and
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: then I realized, oh my gosh, I can't eat anything
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: because my gut is dead. There's no deut bacteria life.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: So you're going from a heroic system to Now what
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I do is that focus on herbs, focus on my exercus,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: my diet, focus on exercise. It's a much more difficult
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: length of your process. Right, you went to heroic rout before,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: like I did you spray her Besides you kill everything.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I used to say to people, I wanted to look
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: like you know what, nap that will look down from
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: space and say, what the hell is that guy doing
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: over there? Man, he's killed everything. I thought it was
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: cute to start planting my forward soybeans on essentially a
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: basketball corps, so I could produce six and a half
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: foot tall gains and looked like a hero. Right, So
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you did. Fine, Now what's your seeing and what you're observing?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: As these crashes come up? You could plan a twenty
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: nine way blend of cereals, which your grasses, by the way,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the humes, clovers, peas beans, brassicas, forbes like chickory, plantain,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: and your soil may only kick out three or four
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: of those. That's not a failure, that's a success. And
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: that that is that reads to me like a book.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: So what's your soil is saying? Is my carbon to
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: nitrogen ratio? Do a little bit of research. Obviously, don't
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: have a lot of time to discuss this, but the
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: carbon to nitrogen ratio his way out of whack. And
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: you know this, this sort of gets back to the
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: food plot industry that I got heavily into. You know,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: since the eighties you could probably name the companies. You know,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: they still fight over who was the first one to
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: grow that the most genetically improved quote unquote deer clover group,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: which cracks me up. But you know, we've been pumping
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: so much nitrogen into the soil with legoons that we
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: are providing the perfect environment for weed to invade. Now, again,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: none of us are perfect farmers, so we have skips
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: and boys in our plots, and Mother Nature's you know,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: first defense to a scar just to throw a plant there.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: So you know, here we are. And I'm sure you've
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: heard of guys fertilizing the clover plots worse, relieving fair soils,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: which allows for the infestation of weeds that we hate,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: and then we're spraying them with caustic chemicals further just
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: throwing the biology in the system. So you're when you
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: throw diversity, I love it. I don't know diversities relative
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: on finding. I like, you know, fifteen sixteen seventeen different
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: species UM in a species complementaries kind of a way. Yeah,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: you know there's this research now that's it's pretty thick.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: It's it's called core um sensusing and what they're starting
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: to find out it's really above the seven eight nine
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: um different species. It's almost like a meeting, right if
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: if you have if you sit on the board UM
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: maybe have a nonprofit and you have to have a
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: quorum and only two guys show up when you don't
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: get much done. And what the what these microbiologists are
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: finding out is once there's a certain amount or a
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: number of species, the biology is superactive and things just click.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: So I like what you did to see if I
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: got all my notes and you're, um, I think you
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: did perfectly fine. You said you didn't get the growth
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: that you wanted. Well, I think you also said you
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you cut back on your fertilizer. Right, So so this
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: is not an overnight accomplishment. So let's let's talk about
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: if you're okay with that, this negative impact of synthetic fertilizers.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I man, my, my, my fertilizers. Say, ok, guy, I
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: don't get happy hats anymore. I don't get tickets for
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the baseball games. He's gonna hate it. I mean, here's this,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: but we have become so dependent on commercial fertilizers that
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: our soils, including my minds, are recovering crack addic. Yours
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: is a recovering crack addict. As you drive, I'm sure
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: in all the country roads where you live, you will
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: see soils that are highly dependent on synthetic fertilizers. Now
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: here's the cool thing about this fertilizer topolic right, And
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if this gets nerdy, but I'm gonna try
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: to make it is like I talked to appliances hunter friend,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: that is possible. But nature is full of these synergies,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: parallels and deep interconnections. It really is. And that's one
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: of my favorite things because people look at the funny
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: cross side when I say, then, I'll repeat it. Nature
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: is full of synergies, parallels, and deep interconnections. So what
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I mean by that is, so everybody has you know,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: we recall from six or seven grade science the way
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: photosynthesis works, right, and I'll spare you all the C
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: six things swallow six bs and I'll just say, do
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: you have these plants with this green chlorophyll, right which
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: collects sun? Combine that with C O two carbon dioxide.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: You hear about CO two emissions. Well, I'm here to
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: tell you nobody's doing more for CO two emissions than
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the regent a people period. And that includes the folks
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: who have a lot of cows, a lot of cattle
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and then a little bit hto H two O, right,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: and you know that sort of mixture if you will. Uh.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: We always hear about this from sixth grade science on.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: It produces this life supporting oxygen. Right, That's all. That's
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: all we've ever been taught that that photosynthesis produces oxygen
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: planet treat. Well, that's cool for those of us who
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: like to breathe. I great, But but the most important
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: thing in my mind that results of byproduct and photosynthesis
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: is carbon. And I'm sure you've heard of carbon in
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: your research and D A carbon exudes, so the term
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: exit it scares a lot of people. But basically, these
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: leaves ah start their roots of plants leak liquid carbon
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: which is a sugar and it's much more difficult than this,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: but this makes good sense. So when they leak this sugar,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: the biology in the soil gets super excited and eat it.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: So it's the symbiotic relationship that, believe it or not,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: went on before we got here and started lining fertilizing,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: killings and destroy and soils. But this super friendly um
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship that's been parallel and works very well for
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: you know, who knows how long, is now being disrupted, right,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: it's being disrupted in that we are dumping or outsourcing.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I've heard it term this way, and this makes sense
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: to me. We are outsourcing the job and the relationship
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: of plants and biology. So for instance, if we dump
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: a bunch of soluble soluble phosphorus fertilizer in the ground,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: the abuscular microize apongei is the microbes that attacht the
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: sol roots that that sort of ha, the symbiozed relationship
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: are no longer needed, right we we don't need am anymore,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: plant doesn't need them. Anymore. So they don't form this
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: as your say, your soybean plant is germinating, it's using
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: all of this phosphorus to grow, and it doesn't need
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: the microbes. It's kind of shuns it. The microubs go
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: beat carbon, which is a very bad thing, and they
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: consume the existing carbon, and then the plant continues to grow,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: protuses to grow, and that we leave the field right
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: we're out bass fishing, and the plant says, oh crap,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: you gave me all this nitrogen. And your fertilizer guy
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: told you to apply right, you know, right when you
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: planted it. But what he didn't tell you is that
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I need more nights later on in my life my
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: growth cycle, right, and you know, all of this nitrogen
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: has now either been consumed by plants or least through
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: the system down to the Gulf and at this one,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: which they don't appreciate at all. Um So, so you
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: there's no relationship now between plants and microizal fungi. So
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: the plant says, hey, micro azal fonge i, I kind
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: of need you right now, and here's some carbon, bring
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: me some some phosphorus. And they don't have this relationship.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: It's too late. You see plants that look horrible, and
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: what's the fertilizer guy say you to do? Put more down? Well,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: it's too late. So so there there's some really good data.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: It's only seventy years worth of data. My good friend
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Rick Haney loves that comment. It's only seventy years worth
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: of data. Let people argue with all the time that
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: has shown approximately fifty of the nitrogen fertilizer that you apply,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I would I would even venture to get Any commercial
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: synthetic fertilizer that you apply is wasted, regardless of pH
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: regardless of form, and how you apply it, it's gone.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: It leaches through the system and it ends up in
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: our in our water systems. So you know that that
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: this whole idea that we think we can go, Oh
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. If if this guy says there's biology
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: and my soil that's gonna go get the nutrients and
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: bring them to the plants in exchange for this liquid
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: carbon cool I'll just stop paying the fertilizer pill. But
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: life's gonna be tickled pink, and everything's gonna look great.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: And then he calls up because of a j I
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: got a problem. My food plucks look like crap. They're stunted,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: and you know, I'm just not seeing the deer I
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: was seeing. Well, it's it's not a You're looking at
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: a completely degenerated, defunct system. So the quicker my my,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the way I looked at it, you know, I'm not
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: gonna be here for forever. I want to work as
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: quick as I can. If I have to sacrifice a
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: little bit for a couple of years, that's fine. The
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: more of these principles I can follow, and the quicker
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I can rebuild the biology and my soils, the well,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: the more valuable my land will be. Obviously it's the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: future generations, but the healthier my soils will be. And
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: you know it's a I'm listening to you. It's funny
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: because I've heard that from dozens of clients. Um, but
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: it just takes a little bit of patience, and trust me.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: After about the second or third year, the drawing power
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: is to a point where your kids say this is
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: too easy, Dad, and you start to think we have
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: We've only killed two dos and U two thou six
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: fourteen years here, which is completely against everything I've been
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: taught as a as a wildlife file and just killed
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: two doughs. But we are now after region to the
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: point where we we're gonna have to kill some those
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: um just because we're we're overrun with year. So so
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: you say it takes a couple of years for things
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: to get untracked once you pull out that synthetic fertilizer.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Now I think correctly if I'm wrong, but I think
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: that's because a few things. Number One, once you remove
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: the kind of steroid, you then get the natural relationship
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: that you just talked about. That natural relationship begins to strengthen,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: it gets better and better every year, and then you
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: are not ripping up the soil anymore because you're gonna
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: go a no tell approach, so you're not destroying those
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: relations ships in that biology, and so that gets better.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: You're also leaving vegetation on top of the surface, and
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: that becomes organic matter, which then feeds the soil and
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: provides natural fertilizer. And then you have this diverse array
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: of different plant life that you keep growing all year round,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: which have kind of symbiatic relationships to where one plants
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: fixing nitrogen and other ones using nitrogen. They're doing this
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: with all sorts of types of nutrients. Is that basically
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: how you replace the fertilizer right, that system in place
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: essentially creates a natural fertilizing system. Absolutely, and and where
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: you put it this phenomenal And now I'll say that
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: you're you're eliminating a group of things and then you're
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: adding something that does create segway. By the way, you're
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: adding something that is violently important. It's the most important
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: tool in article box for regenerating soils. So we're eliminating
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: the fillage, for eliminating all of the services, and we're
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: doing everything you just said. But what we're adding is
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: of most of utmost importance, and that is plants. We
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: fixed soils with plants. Dr Rick Haney. I don't know
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: if he was the first to say this, but he's
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: known for his short and impactful comments and quotes. He'll
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: stay all the time plants. And to the point that
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I made a T shirt sent it to him, uh
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: with drops on on the front and plants fixed stirt
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: on the back. And you know, every time, as I
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: was learning about this process, I'd call him up, say Rick,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: what about Bioshar? And you know, what about this particular
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: bug in a chug? You know, what what if I
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: did this? Can I spray these micros and get there quicker?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: He would just laugh and he in his okey hybrid
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: texas draw say plants fixed, stirt, dummy, stop thinking so
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: much and just plants plants. So this led to so,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: so I want to I want to make sure I
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: drive that home is a live plant is the most
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: potent tool with which we can build healthy soils. So photosynthesis,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: without that bright thing in the sky, that's son, none
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: of this would be possible. So photosynthesis drives it right,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: kicks off this carbon liquid carbon, sugar off the roots,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and that carbon is the currency, if you will, of
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: the soil economic system, so that carbon is traded for
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: everything a plant needs. So yes, you're absolutely dead on.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: But I want people to understand when they see all
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: of the marketing and the advertising, and then that includes me.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I think I threw myself unto the bus m with
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: our nitro, you know, and of some things in the past.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Seaweeds offer incredible health both humans and while if but
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: plants fixed or so, you know, when the energy flows
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: from the sun through the soil, you really can't have
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: healthy soil um without plants. And that's what uh sort
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: of led me down this path of what I call
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: relay inter cropping or pasture cropping. And I didn't make
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: about either of those terms. They're just not really used
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: in North American agriculture. UM. But this while they're starting
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: to get here, relay intercropping and pasture cropping I think
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: are just the coolest thing for for wildlife managers. All right,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: So so what does that mean? How does that apply
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: to what we're trying to do with wildlife management and
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: in habitat. Yeah, so, so I was first introduced to
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: this pasture cropping, UM gentlemen, and looking up column stas
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: in UM Australia. He would take these perennial pastures and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: he would say, Okay, if these pastures are going dormant
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: during the UH box season and non growing season, what
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: if I planned cereal grain for instance? We but like
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you mentioned planting your serial rye and I harvest. I
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: actually harvest a crop out of this pasture in the spring.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: And that that got me thinking, that was mentioned in context,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: how can that apply to while life? Well, where that
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: fit with my programs is we were looking to no
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: longer use the plow and a disk and whatever. My
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: clients have manufactured blows my mind the stuff they make
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: on their own to destroy the dirt. So here's how
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: this changed, and I ultimately called my program the Reload Series. UM.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: And you don't need me to do it, um. It
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: can be done by anybody's source seeds. But essentially the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: way that I've worked the Reload series is I'm what
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I'm looking to do. First of all, my goal is
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: I'm really looking to a cool solar energy during the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: growing season to boost my fault hunting plots. Now, let
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: that sink in for a minute. I had to take it.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I had to use context. I had to adapt it
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: for the deer world and say, Okay, we're not harvesting
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: grain to run over the scale and cell, but our
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: cash crop is a big old fat slaughter and rotten
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: mature boxing. So how can I produce more of those
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: jokers while following these principles. So I'm saving up essentially
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: all my nutrients. I'm repriming the soil. I think Gabe
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: was the first one to call it biological primer. It
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't get any better than that term right there. That
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: is that's such a cool term, um or priming the
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: soil priming, the biology introducing what a diversity or plethora
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: of micro uh microbiology and macro the worms as well need.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: So hey, here's that work. When you look at a plant,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: it's either an annual, biennial, perennial um it it prefers
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: to see, might prefer certain temperature to germanate and grow.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: So I looked at the systems and in my area,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: I look at the soil temperatures. You know, you see that.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: I've worked with some of the larger seed companies and
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: help them make the pretty map colored map you see
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: on the back of the bag that has planting dates
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: from north to south, and you can't nature doesn't work
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: that way on the map. It's different every year. So
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself, Okay, what if we hit the
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: soils as soon as I can. In my part of
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: the country, it's March April when the soil temps are
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: hit fifty five, you know, fifty fifty five degrees, and
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: I put some of those cool seasoned plants in the ground.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: For me, it was like a you know, I called
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: it a spring reload. So this is the beginning of
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the system. For me. It was spring trap spring barley. Obviously,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: all the legions, the rasticas you're gonna love that, um
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: you know. So we hit the major functional groups, all
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: of them again not necessarily looking to produce a fear
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: food plot, but looking to prime the pump so to speed.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: And then as you know, the sole attempts war muky
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: hit what sixty five sixty eight? You know it's it's
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: pretty close. Soybean plant in time, guys, you know, farmers
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: cracking me up. They've already gotten all the corn and
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: horns and warm season grass doesn't want to be planted
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: in the March April and the Yankee country, but they
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: do it anyway because they feel the pressure. So if
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: these guys are the corns in and now you're you know,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: you're seeing soybeans popped to start to get planted, that's
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: when the summer redo goes in. And my summer reload
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: idea was to past your crop or steal them from
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: some of these guys, relay, intercrop tasted, no till drill.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: My choice, um, you know is the land Prize for
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: great planes. Just what I've always used to enjoy them.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: Fill the hopper with um the green, then with summer,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: warm season annuals. Right, So you. You're gonna see soybeans,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: You're gonna see calpees, You're gonna see uh sorghum. You're
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: gonna see sorgums to dan um. You know, if I
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: said soybeans, you're gonna see foraged corn. You're gonna see
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: hubands sweet clover, which is absolutely incredible for your bees.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: By the way, it's like one big giant bluzz facet.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. And I'm drilling right into the pasture.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: So in other words, and then here here's the cool thing.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: I don't have cattle. I'm running my roller cramper ahead
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: of my my rig. So I've got the roller cramper
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: on the front, the drill on the back, and I'm
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: drilling these plants. Now I get it. I understand that
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: in order to kill the vascular system of a plant
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: or the roller cramper, I eat, cramp terminate. It has
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: to be like a straw. Right, So we think buck,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: we think cereal, rye oh sol those hate me when
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: I when I try to cramp from they absolutely I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: have this battle going on with oats. So my philosophy is, hey,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I may not cramp terminate, and of that spring planting,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: I don't care because I feel like I'm crimp terminating
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: some immediately cycling those nutrients back to the soil. I
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: feel like my roller crimper nature. When you when you
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: study nature, nature really likes um uh, disturbance, destruction, It thrives,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: and that it's the nature is very resilient. So when
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I run that roller crimper, it doesn't. You know, it's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: not exactly like a bison. But by the way, they're
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: running a buffalo here in North America or in the
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: in the States, they were bison. Um So this whole
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: buffalo system thing we in my biology background goes crazy
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: when I hear buffalo. They're in Africa. Um So, I
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: feel like it's it's disturbing and manipulating the soil, almost
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: like the hoots of cattle or bison. If I could
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: get into poop, I'd be thrilled. But I haven't figured
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: that one out yet. Um Obviously, you can spread manure
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: and you know, do the whole see that whole deal.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: But so so you can see where the systems going.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: That the system, the reload system of relay inter cropping
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: or pasture cropping and looked ugly to my kids and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: they when they went out the hunt. But what they
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: didn't know is there was so much going on in
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: that biological pump that the deer knew it. There's a
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: lot of research now on nutrient density, on how much
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: you follow human nutrition, but we're starting to find that
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: just because you eat your veggies doesn't mean you're getting
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: the nutrient density we've once got. And that's not a
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: surprise to those of us who understand that most of
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: our all of our soils are degraded and will never
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: be returned back to what they wants were. So you're
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: spending the whole drone seasons for summer sort of prime
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: in the pump, cycling that harnessing the power that solar energy,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: and in the fall when you put fall reload in again,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: which is a multi species cover prop. If you will
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: um biological primer food plot, do you see much more
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: growth and you see much more attraction from deer and
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and it's to me, it's one way to exponentially achieve
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: what we're trying to achieve without having clients drop off
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: the radar and just give up on the program. So
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: you know, when you think about these multispecies biological primers,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: if you will you know, one of my blends has
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: seventeen different species and varieties, and it's you know, it's
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: it's forward with We're not just throwing this stuff together, right,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: it's you know, we think about how every plant can
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: complement another plant, but we're also thinking about how that
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: an individual plant can contribute to the our resource concerned
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: with that specific field. So I'm not I can't tell
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: you how excited I am with this series. Now you
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: may you may have noticed. You didn't hear anything about pillage.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: You didn't hear anything about synthetic fertilizer, and you didn't
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: even hear me terminate with chemicals. Now, some of my
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: clients I can't tell you who, but one of my
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: clients said, Jay, I love your dirty plots. And I
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: laughed and I said, dirty plots. I like it. So
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: now we call them dirty plots there dirty to us.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: And this goes back to when you mentioned you said
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: it was your worst looking food plot ever. Um to nature,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: to the wildlife, to the bees that you're trying to attract,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: and birds, obviously the insects. It looks like somebody had
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: come in there and remodeled. Yeah, it's it's trying to
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: understand that my appreciation of, let's say art, in my
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: appreciation of a certain type of art is very different
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: than what a white tailed deer's appreciation of what this
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: landscape or this art should look like. So I'm trying
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: to reset what the expectation should be. That's a great point. Um,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: here's here's it. Here's one of the things that I've
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: been trying to wrap my head around when it comes
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: to building out these blends that you're planting at different
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: parts of the year. Um. I understand the desire to
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: have diversity, and I understand what that gets you. Where
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: I worry or what what I just need about better
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: understand is is how to get the different And maybe
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: this doesn't matter what I'm trying. I don't know how
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: to phrase this question. What I Here's the thing. What
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I understood about food plotting and planting when I was
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: just learning about this in the early days, was there's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: certain times a year certain things should be planted, and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: there's certain soil depths that certain things should be planted.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: So I knew, all right, I want to plant brassicas
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I need to have it on a firm seedbed. I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: needed to not get much more than a quarter inch
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: in this soil, and you know, I want to plant
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: it in early August. Maybe that'll be ideal. So I
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: would do a strip of brass because and I plant
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: that that way. And then I wanted some oats out there,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: some cereal grains or something like that, and I knew
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: it was better plant that later in the summer. And
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: I knew that wanted to be deeper in the soil,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: maybe a half inch or an inch deep in the soil.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: So I'd come in and I would in late August
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: or early September. I would plant that at a different time,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: in a different way, and that would get me the
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: best possible growth of each um. So that's how you
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: used to do it. Now I'm trying to figure out. Okay,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Now I'm trying to plant a blend. And in my blend,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: I see oats. In that blend, I see brassicas in
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: that blend, I see a whole bunch of other things.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: And now I'm planting it the exact same time, in
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: the exact same way. And I'm worrying, is that why
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't see some things come up? Or should I
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: be planting these in different ways? Or should I be like,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: how do we how do you does that matter anymore?
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: When I'm doing the diverse thing? Doesn't that matter? How
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: do we account for it? Help me understand that whole thing.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: I can tell you what matters if if you have
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: plants growing in the soil and you do not have
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: bar naked, hungry, thirsty soil, I'm happy, dear, happy you're
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: pumping carbon into the soil. And trust me, I've seen
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: deer eat an awful lot of quote unquote weeds and
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: we really haven't dove in on this word weeds yet,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: but um, dear will consume weeds for different medicinal purposes,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: and believe it or not, some of them are so
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: supernutrient dense. Um. I know, I've studied you know, herbal
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: medicine as you know someone who struggles with gut dysfunction
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: and take bites um and the stuff is amazing. And
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: deer there have this nutritional wisdom period and we'll talk
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: more about that too, But no, you know so so
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: that one of the first things you know, I've heard
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: since the early days and this company, even from the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: food plot marketing companies, they would say, j you can't plant,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: you can't drill out of out of a no till drill,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: multiple species, of multi sees, of multiple sizes, varying sizes
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: at depth and as hogwatch that I'm here to tell
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: you nature certainly doesn't doesn't that way, um, and that
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: to me suggest you sit behind the desk and never
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: get out in the field and really play with what
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: this equipment that no kill drill. You mentioned that this
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: stuff is amazing, that the things that it can do.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: So you know, for example, I've got um some of
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: these seventeen and twenty and twenty nine way blends, and
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I will stay to be common and I don't even
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: like putting them on social media because I never intended
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: to get into the seed business. I've consulted for seed companies,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: have worked with them. Many of them are my friends. UM.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: I never wanted to gain U the seaed in to
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: share my consultant. I sell my knowledge and sell my experience.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: But it pains me to see the nonsense that they're selling.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: Not just the products, and some of the products you're great,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: they're just not presented properly with with the right teammates,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: if you will. But this this idea that you have
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: to plant, you know, clover at a different depth than soybeans,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: different depth than I know. Yes, I agree, if you're
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: planning a mono culture, you may have better stand density
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: if you're precise, like a grain farmer. But there's nothing
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: in nature precise. So guys used to say to me,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: all right, if I put this multiple species plan, my gosh,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: You've got graphicas in here, which, as you know, are tiny.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Some of the clovers are even smaller. You've got bats,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: which kind of have their own shape. You have calpees,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: you have soybeans, you have some time. You have all
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: the stuff in here that's just you know, point that's
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: got the cubious seed in the world. These things are
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: not going to grow. And that's it just had not.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: It's never been the case for me. And I think,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: and I've studied this and tried to figure out why,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: and I think what happens. Some of those larger seeded
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: UH seeds, the larger seeds will germinate with all this power,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: and they'll blow a rivet or a dvot or a
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: furrow in the soil. Tiny will be, but they'll they'll
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: blow that furrow in the soil. They'll open it up
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: the sunlight and those tiny seeds, but clover also German
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: eate and come up with them. Now it's for me anymore.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: It's not even so much as growing a twenty four
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: in tall plant that looks great for photos. It's just
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: putting the seeds in the ground because the soil will
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: give you what the soil needs. In other words, I
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: client did that. They say to me, this this new
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: field that I want you to look at. I'm going
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: to Alabama here soon to look at it. It's just
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: full of the whole host of weeds. I'm gonna kill
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: him right before you come. And I said, that's like
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: giving me a book with blank pages. I won't know
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: what to do. Please don't do that. And you know
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: if once you learn and trust me, I was the weed.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: And I've got clients and friends and my family members
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: will tell you. We've got a long driveway up to
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: our house. And I used to make all the plots
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: look per perfect and phenomenal for those who come and go.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: And I would stop the vehicle and the way to dinner,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: run out in the middle and pull a weed out
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: of my employbean plot because it embarrassed me. Right, And
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys who do this Now, I
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: look at this differently, that we are telling me something.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: And and you know a lot of these Regen Ray,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Archilbletta and Cabe and and Dr Allen Williams, who was
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: phenomenal when he speaks about weeds, have taught me no, no, no,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: no no, read the weeds. And when you go back
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: to the ancient literature, I mean, I've got to book
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: here written in the forties or fifties, I believe it is.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: It teaches farmers how to read the weed. I felt
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: the Golden Rod that you guys were you were with
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: uh an apiary gentleman in one of your back forty
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: and you know, the Golden Rod is like a book.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it tells us so much about what's going
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: on in that soil. So I didn't mean to get off,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: way off in the weeds. But no, literally, that's it's
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: good stuff. I want to I want to get one
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: more tactical question in on that whole diversity and planting.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: So so if it's okay we're planning all these different things,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: you're saying, you're making me feel better that I shouldn't
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: feel bad about the fact that it all didn't come
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: in perfectly the way it should That's kind of to
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: be expected. But when I'm actually out there using the drill, right,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: it's the first time I ever used a drill, and
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to just I'm trying to figure out, Okay,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: I've got to adjust for seed size. I can adjust
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: the depth, and then I can calibrate based off how
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: much seed breaker. Um, do I err on the too
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: deep and too much or do I err on the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: too little into shallow? And if I'm planning all these
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: different sizes of seeds, um, how do you determine how
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: deep you should set it? All that kind of stuff
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: when you know that something is not going to be
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: a deal at that depth, Like what's the safest route?
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: M that's a that's a great question. And here's where
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: the art kind of comes in, right. So you know,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: for those of us, when I got into no killing,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: I was working on a second or third generation farm,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: not my family, but the previous that had been plowed
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: for years. So it looked like Kansas. The dust bowl
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: had nothing on us. It was crossed over, it was hard.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: You really could bounce basketball on it. So the learning
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: curve and the art of using the no kill drill
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: it's such that it causes a lot of people to
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: get discouraged and give up and quit. And I mean,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: these are bigg farmers, not just good plotters. So initially
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: you've got to work. You know, when I bought my
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: first drill, I couldn't get the seeds. I couldn't plan
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: a soil being for the life of me. I couldn't
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: get my cutting cultures deep enough in my encrusted soils.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: And when I called the folks a great playing plan
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: pride out in Kansas, they laughed and they said, your
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: soils look like ours. You're you guys are supposed to
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: have good soils. Your soils are crusted, they're hard. And
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: I think the warranty max was like two or three
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: hundred pounds of added suitcase wade or any weight on
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: either side. And the gentleman there said, listen, we will
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: honor based on what we see. We will honor to
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: your warranty. I want you to put four d pounds
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: on each side. And I thought to myself, could got
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: four hundred pounds. That's that's gonna be a heavy sucker.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: So I went and I did it. Um. I added
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: some suitcase wite and I got to the depth that
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: I need so and I've seen, honestly n of my
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: clients who picked up the no till drill and start fresh.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: That's one of the biggest issues they face is initially
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: your soils are dead and crusted. There's no life in them,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: there's no aggregation, there's no infiltration, there's no biology, there's
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: no armor, and you practically need swords cutting through it. Right. So, Kate, Kate,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about, Kate, soils are ship When you think
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: your shovel, I haven't seen you guys think of shovel.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe you have, but I didn't watch all your episodes.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: I want to see somebody think a spade or shovel
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: onto the back forty drive it down in there and
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: smell it, feel it, look at it, and and look
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: for aggregates. Soil aggregates. Biology creates a sticky glue schlomlin
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: that finds soil particles together. So your soils should look
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: and feel like chocolate, Kate. That's why I was thinking
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: cake when when you when you being down in there,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: it should be. When I walked on David brand David
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Brandt was um, you know he's a note killer from
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: the seventies. Um, and I've walked on his soil. You
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: almost feel like you're on not a trampoline, but maybe
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: one of those um those those pads launch pads or
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: something that's a jim that's huge. You know, it's just
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: like wow, you feel it under your boots. And after
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: being on so many properties, I can walk out on
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: the field and I probably don't even need to sink
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: my spade into the soil. But um, yeah, I don't
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: know if I answered your question or not, but it
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: seems like it takes them figuring out and that I
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: that I guess I shouldn't feel bad that I didn't
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: have it right the first time. Absolutely, And here's the
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: thing within those field drill right, every time you get
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: a different blend, you really need to look at it
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: and say, Okay, this is what I'm dealing with. You know,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: look at the soil situation. And you know, I find
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: with most of my blends this reload series spring, summerfall,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: if we get about a half inch even three quarters
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: of an inch deep, we're gonna have a fantastic looking field.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: So you know, I know everybody hates the word calibration.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: I have clients who will say to me, what drill
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: did you own? I want to buy it because I
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: know you have notebooks full of calibrations for all of
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: the sea and that cracks me up. And I used
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: to be that way too. Now I'll take the blend
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: and I'll calibrate it because things changed, soil conditions change
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: the drill. Even my three P six or six ant
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: unit will change from the dozens that my clients are buying.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: So take it out there, and you know, if you
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: don't know how to calibrate it, look, you know, look
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: that up. There's an act actually that not a col
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: I've never used it, but they say it's pretty good.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: But just calibrate that blend way what you get out
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: of your drill. And that's the only way to know.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: You know, how how accurate you are when it comes
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: to cranking out the right amount of seas. Now on
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: depth again, I don't care if you have. You know,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: from the very smallest of small right on up to
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: the large seas, I find that if you plant at
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: a half binch too close, closing in on three quarters
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: of an inch, you'll be just fine. And you know
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: the other funny thing is I get guys call me
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: all the time to say, hey, send me a picture
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: of what this summer relos looks like. And and you know,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: early on I said, I can't because I'd be lying
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: to you that you know, you're gonna assume that your
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: plot is also gonna look like that plot. But that's
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: not the case. Your soils are gonna be completely different
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: than my soils. They're gonna favor of different species and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: varieties in that blend and mind, and it's gonna physically
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: look different than mine. I've gotten the point now, right,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: just done. Here you go, here's one of mine. Um
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and nobody's really said, hey, Mike, don't look
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: like yours. Um, so, so that's you know, kind of
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing when fork I like me the food
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: plot results you got from your zero synthetic no TILL
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: high h D high diversity plot. Man, I'm just like,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: I'm down on my knees and the dirt looking okay.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Your soils pumping a lot of carbon or maybe deplated
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: of carbon. And that's why it's you know, really favoring
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: these boats and these grasses. Yeah, yeah, I can tell
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: you that, um the soil on the back forty is
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: definitely not like chocolate cake. It is. It is hard
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: and rocky and and so tough to work with. I
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: I've typically put in like fake scrape trees price you know,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: people do that all time, right. I would cut down
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: a small tree or something and sink a hole in
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: with post hole diggers, And I physically cannot use post
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: hole diggers to get more than a couple inches deep. Um,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: So we had to drive two paste in the like
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: five years to be able to take one arm just
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: and a tea post in the ground. Yeah, that'd be
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: That'd be amazing. So I think that's a great illustration
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: of what we're working with. UM. You talked about your
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: reload series, and and you've got a spring planting and
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: then a summer planting and then a fall planting. That's
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: different than most of the other rotations I've heard about
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: UM from folks, whether that I'm trying it in the
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: hunting world or like a gay brown type that I've
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: read about. Is usually there's got like a late spring,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: early summer planting and then a fall planting. So why
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: have you added a third into the mix? What's that
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: do for you? Well, there's there's a lot of reasons.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: Number one. Like I said, I'm trying to prime the
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: pump as quick as I can to to get to
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: where you know, I need to get. And obviously for
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: my clients, what it all boils down to is as
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: my friend Peterson's bow hunting, my editor on my White
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Sales column, Christian Burg always tells me, come on, man,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: these guys want uh target rich environments. That's if your
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: article doesn't get me more target rich environments, I'm kicking
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: it back. So I'm trying to figure out a way to,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: you know, make them happier as quick as I can.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: Number one. Number two, guys like Gave aren't they're Their
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: cash crop is not wildlife. It's not turkey, it's not here,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: it's not quail, it's not pheasants. Their cash crop is
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: a grain or an animal, you know, pastured protein if
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: you will. So what I'm what I'm doing is is
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: just continually I tried to again at same context, I
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: tried to adapt those those six SOL principles into what
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: I'm doing, but yet have the biggest impact on my
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: client's ball hunts. So while there's other things going on
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: in that um, you know, I'm not planting the grain
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: that I'm gonna harvest. Honestly, if if my fields are
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: full of every serial brand you can imagine, sporadically and
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: sparsely scattered with legions of different types and and species,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: I mean to me that diversity is what wildlife craves.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: And when I look at a mono culture, and again
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not paying like if I say a mono culture
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: soybean plot by no means that I picking on the
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: soybean threader or grower. Soybean is an incredible plant. Um
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: the same can be said for clover. But unfortunately, too
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: much of a good thing is a bad thing. So
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: let me just I know you you're driving home on
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: some some really good takeeaway points and something that a
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: guy can go out there and actually do. I'd love
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: to talk about the Reload series all day long, and
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: and nobody needs me at my Raiload series and my
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: goals to educate people, so they don't need me to
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: blend problems for them. They can go do it themselves.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: But um, where are they're going with that? When when
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: you look at I can't remember I was going with
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: that anyway? Well, I was asking that, I was asking
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: why you added that spring planting while usually I see
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: people planning something this summer and then it grows for
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: three months and then they drill over top of that
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: for the fall, and then the fall blend continues on
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: until the spring and it green's up, and then they
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: crimped that and plant their summer. So I was trying
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: to understand why you added that third that early early
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: spring planting to it, and you were kind of staying
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: that so so the spring um. You know, the farmers
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: and the egg guys. When I started down this path
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: and said, well this is easy, Jay, you're starting to fall,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: they tend to think of starting in the fall because
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: they've part of their crops and now they're they're planning
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: for next year. Well are we don't really do that.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Our cash crop um you know, occurs late fall November,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: you know, even over over winter. So my goal was
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: to just keep keep pumping all those different plant types
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: in the soil and really let the soil reveal what
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: the soil wants. Now you know, we we do plant
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: um harry vetch was a plant I never ever used.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Everybody told me it's invasive. I've yet to see that.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Um Cereal rock is another plant as as a food plotter.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: I should said never, I rarely ever used it. Now
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: I fall plant in October an awful lot of serial
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: Rye and Harry Vetch, And I don't know if you've
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: seen you know, most know that I'm in love with
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: my roller primper. To me, a roller primper has changed,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: completely changed the game. And when a guy gets rid
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: of a roller primper typically means he's quitter, he's lazy,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: or as in Gay Brown's case, it's just it didn't
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: fit his model. But most food plotters can ploy a
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: roller crimper and change the game on the weed the
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: week suppression situation big time. So you know these same plots,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: you know fall reload. His weight is a little bit
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: heavier towards the brassicas. And then I have a product
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: that you can't get online. I don't. I don't. I
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: sell it the clients, but I don't really sell it
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: put full Nourishment and Full Nourishment was designed by the
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: guys who said, Hey, I want to come in the spring,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: the winter, early spring with some serious ground cover. Right.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: So one of the reasons to answer your question about
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: the spring reload is many of my clients who wanted
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: to start this process made the decision now right during
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: the off season, and and we looked their fields and
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: we said, here's the problem. This corn field that's not interstated.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be naked and there will be no soil
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: armor comes spring. Right, that's a disaster for soil. That
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: is not a function in soil. So we said, okay,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: let's get some of these. Let's get you started. Let's
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: prime the pump and get these early, cool seasoned plants
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: in the ground. And listen, if you had done a
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: good job of planning in the fall like you said,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: and you put in you know, a high high density
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: of um cereal rye and Harry vetg, you probably won't
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: need spring reload. You're probably gonna rather look to delay
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: your planting like I do. Sometimes I plant my beings
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: in July. Um you know, maybe in June. If I
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: left that those biennials kicking high here in the spring,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: they'll get to a crimpable stage where I can lay
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: that map down and it looks like a shaggy carpet.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: Just suppressing weeds and really doing a lot of things,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: maintaining ideal soil temperatures for germination, habitat for insects. These
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: love it. Um, you know, it just goes on and on.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: What you about? The crimper a lot and I'm super
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: intrigued with it. It makes a lot of sense. I
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: don't have one yet. They're very expensive. What do you do?
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: What do you do if you can't afford a crimper?
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Or is there is there is there any alternative? Or
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: is it one of those things you say, you know what,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: don't buy a big screen TV US year say have
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: your money and buy one. What's well, what's the solution there?
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: That's a creat you know. I was having to state
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: with one of my clients and he said, so, how
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: many of these crimpers? Crimpers are guys buying? I said, no,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: the guys with the budget by it. Love it. I've
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: never heard a single complaint other than I wish this
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: thing could poop. The crimpers are expensive. And I said
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: that to him. And this is a business owner, and
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: he looked at me. He smiled and said, hey, you
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: gotta do a job, man. You gotta bring the right
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: tools to the job, right, He said, It's it's more
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: cost effective for me to ride my bike to school
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: or to work or the town, but it's easier to
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: jump in the car. Get there so I can get it.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: There's no way around it. Um. You know, we I'm
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: working with High and J in Pennsylvania. Here he's cranking
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: and we're now making a black drop time roller crimper
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: that looks super cool. It's the same retail costs as
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: the crimpers from Jake Blanket, I n J. And then
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: by the way, Jake is UM. You know, they were
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: one of the they were the first ones to really
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: take along with the Roade Institute these designs, the chevron
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: pattern and say, hey, holy smokes, if we step on
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: some of the um straw like stems, we can. It
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: was the organic guys who wanted to get away from,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the cost of chemicals. So yeah, they're expensive.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: We now have we're cranking amount right now. They're getting painted.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: We've got three four and five ft flipover models for
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: the A t V and the UTV, and these things
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: are very expensive. If you've ever seen the process, They're
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: very expensive to make UM and anything that's obviously expensive
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: to mate is going to be quite expensive on the
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: retail side of things. You know, some of the A
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: t V units are twenty UM, sometimes even a little
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: bit less depending on the size. My clients are buying
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: you know, eight twelve ft crimpers for you know, fifty
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: two six thousand dollars depending on you know, the particular.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: So while I'll agree they can be costly, man, I'm
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: a huge fan of a lot of the gear, the
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: Mountain gear um today and you know, the Marino will.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: That stuff is not cheap. But I'm here to tell
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: you I might go to eastern Montana and I'm on
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: the Powder River one day. It could be ninety four
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: degrees and I could snow that night, And when I've
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: sweated all day in my first light in marino wool,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: all I do is hanging next to my bed, and
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: in the morning it's bone dry. So I don't care
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: what that costs, to be completely honest with you, it's
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: it's replaced all of my Yeah, yeah, I hear what
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: you're staying there now. There's some folks that have there's
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: kind of a little underground movement that you can read
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: about the various online threads where people kind of are
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: trying to adapt some of these principles to a super
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: budget methodology, like you're throwing mo idea where they're putting
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: stuff down and mowing the weed growth over top of
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: it and using that to kind of get again. I'm
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: sure it's not as good as going all the way,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: but they're trying to achieve similar results with less gear.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Um have you seen anything about that? Have you ever
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: tried anything there? Um? Or is that you know parking? Yeah?
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: A good friend of mine, Tim Cooker, Um, who is
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: you know? He's done some filming for me and he's
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: been on the podcast. He set out to He's very
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: mechanically inclined. He set out to make his own you know,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: roller cripper and test some of his own stuff. And
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: you know he's used called the packers. Um. I just
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: saw somebody share a video the end of day on YouTube.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: It was a a I think it was a Honda Civic.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: They were driving it through the feet old driving over
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: all this stuff to correct it down. Now you know,
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: I think any I love it? I love it. First
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: of all, anything that you are doing that meets the
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: six principles, which everything you just mentioned did. Um. Can
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: we expect the efficiency of a broadcast and mode plot
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: to be that of a drilled in print? No, But
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: as long as your expectations are such going into the deal,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: I'm okay. With that, you know, and I've seen people
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: in gardens take what looks like one of the blades,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: attach it to or make your version of that blade right.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: You know, you want to be blunt, not sharp, because
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: the goal is not the cut the stem, but instead
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: crimp the stem right um and preferably every six or
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: seven inches. So there's multiple crimps, but one crimp usually
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: does it. But I've seen people in gardens take two ropes,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: hold the ropes up off their shoulders almost like a
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: swing and stefana, you know, a two buy that has
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: a blunt blade on the bottom and literally, you know,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: step and walk, step and walk and crimp de terminates.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it can be done. It's just
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: a matter of you know, how much time you have
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: and manpower and and what your budget is. But I
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: guess for those and I don't care where you buy
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: a roller cramper, but for those contemplating, is it really
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: worth four thousand dollars or six thousand dollars or you know,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: on what you buy percent yes, no one has given
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: me a legitimate reason to dislike a roller cramper fair enough,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: I uh, hopefully I'll get my hands on one at
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: some point, and we'll be able to test test it
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: all because it sure sounds like a great way to
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: go about it. Now. You've mentioned numerous times throughout a
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: conversation about nutrient density and the selective nature of how
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: dear feed and how kind of how maybe the the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: cash crop the end result that we're looking for after
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: doing all this work to put in our our food
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: plots in a different kind of way that's healthier for
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: the soil, healthier food plants and the pollinators and everything
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: that does result in a target rich environment. Um, can
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: you talk to me a little about nutrient density, about
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: the things you've learned, um, along those lines. Absolutely, this
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: is this is good stuff. And this is where I've
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: really collaborated with Fred Provenza. For anyone who's never read
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: his book Nourishment, what a what an incredible book, because
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: he was on my podcast last and uh, it's just
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: the numbers or through the root of people listening. And
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: I'm so thankful for that because he has so much
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: knowledge to spread. But when you talk nutritional density, I
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: think the stuff going on in human nutrition is incredible.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: My wife gets so kissed at me, because you know,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: she loves eating veggies. She's all about health, and she'll
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: go to the store and buy spring nixt and I
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: look at it and I laughed, and I say, do
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: you realize you'd have to eat four of those alix
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: have the same nutrient density they had in nineteen forty.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: Here's the study. It's been done. And you know it's true.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: There are researchers studying veggies in the grocery store and
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: they're finding, you know, meat, it's incredibly you have to
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: twice as much meat to get you know, the same
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: nutrients she wants. God, so that you know, I actually
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: hit that um industry before I came to the dear
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: idea of this nutritional density and forages, because again I've
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: got this weekend immune system from lyne disease, and I
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: realized quickly that I need to focus on what I eat.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: So here's the deal. The current food plotting model is
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: really easy. It's it's it's full proof. I mean, everyone
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: can grow biomass um, but this is biomass really truly
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: grow big, mature books with you know, nutrient dense plant scapes.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think so we could do tissue analysis then
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: we have, and you know, we're all about protein while
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that there are we have
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: more problems with too much protein in plants and animals
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: than we have with two little protein. This protein craze
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: has got to go away. We just don't need that much. Um.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: I get a salad frequently in a local restaurant, and
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: the waitresses always saying, if you want to be protein
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: for that salad, meeting fish or chicken or steak. And
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: I finally said the other day, you realize there's enough protein.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: Plants have protein, to stop asking me that question. And
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: she just kind of laughed and said, yeah, I guess
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: you're right. But so you know, the way that we're
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: managing these food plots and and conventional act for that matter,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: is so very detrimental to the soil. Um, let's let's
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: let's convert it to a real world widlife situation. You know,
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: with clovers here, clover, we've been breed in clover to
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: make it dear clover for twenty years, thirty years whatever. Nebrassicas,
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: same way, two fantastic groupings of plants, Love them, always
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: have them, would never plan them alone. When you pumped
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: too much nitrogen in your soil with legooms specifically clover.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about clover. You're throwing that carbon nitrogen way
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: out of WI And I can remember, Gabe tell me
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: one time, just go observe some of these plots. And
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you what to do, because
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: that's not my job. That's your job as a biologist.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Just go look at And I remember sitting there looking
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: at one. Actually it was a client in Pennsylvania. We
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: jumped off the ranger and I walked out of the plot.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: He said, Jay, I just frost seeded this. It was
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: probably February, Marks you can't remember. Just frost seeded this.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: I know you see a lot of fair spots. Um
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: this is you know, the Stolen's did very well in
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: this clover. It's spreading, it's growing. But I had some
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: wheat issue last year, so as a result, it has
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: some bear spots. He frost seated us. It's perfect. That's
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: a crazy start. Here's what I want you to do.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Crank up that new drill you just bought. Talk at yourself,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: some spring trip, a kally, spring barley, spring oats, I
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: don't care. Get them all. Get them in that drill
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: full rate, and come through here and drill this quickly,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: and he looked at me like I was crazy, said
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: it's not time to get the drill out yet. That said,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: well that would you know Mother nature would disagree with that,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: but just try it. And a couple of months later
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: to tell me up and said, I see what you did,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: and see what do you mean? He said that plot
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: where I put the cereal grains in instead of having
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: I hate the term we unwanted plants grasses, I've got
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: spring trip. I think he plans spring trip on the
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: mistaken and the deer and the turkeys are absolutely annihilating
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: this fresh, succulent plant, while my clover is spreading through
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: stolen's and obviously the clover seas that he frost seeded
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: are also supplanting the field. And what he ended up
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: with at the end of the season was a beautiful
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: clover plot that I would be lying if I said
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: it didn't unwanted invasive grass weeds. But man, we certainly
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: used our heads and what's called a cultural weed management strategy,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: which that's kind of important to talk about. Two uh, man,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just going crazy. So so we went to college,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: you know, we we learned about you know, here's how
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: you control weeds. Mark, so you can mechanically control them,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: like when you studied this, you know the great planes, right,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: dragon plows constantly, constantly just struckt the soil. Chemically control weeds,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: or you can culturally control weeds. And I can remember
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: saying we would cover the mechanical the chemicals. Say wait
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: a minute, what's his cultural stuff? Never understood it when
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: I was in my teens in twenties cultural weed management.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: And then I found the guy crap, this is actually
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: using our heads a little bit of planning. So we
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: might be putting in a suppreshing uh smother cropper or
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: cover crop in the fall that's gonna suppress those weeds
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: in the spring. Takes a little bit of thought, right, Um,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: that's where it's that when it comes to weeds. And
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: and that's probably why I gets still excited with the
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: roller cripper because I've seen it. Think who was it?
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: There's a gentleman who who chugged me on Facebook from
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: Nebraska who says, I think Jason would agree, there's no
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: better feeling a crushing a five foot tall stand. It
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: could be multi species, but Harry Vetch for instant clover
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: cereal Rye oats and just watching this stuff form I'm
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: not kidding you, a six seven inch jag carpet wheat suppression, Matt.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: And then you hear the local farmer who makes a
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: living uh selling grain, complaining about Mayor's Tale. Mayor's Tale
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: is and that would be like my high school football
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: team locally, who's not half bad playing one of the
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: missie teams. Mayor's Tale is a joke. Yeah, it has
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: beat us in the chemical team, but it's a relatively
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: easy seed to suppress if we just think ahead. How
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: do you do that? Because I have a whole lot
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: of Mayor's Tale on the back forty that I want
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: to to take a new tact with this coming spring,
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: whether it be with food plots or trying to get
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: native grasses out there, switch grass, different things like that.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: How do you deal with Mayor's Tale without chemicals so
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: it so get culturally? You have to think ahead of it.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing about Mayor's I'm gonna warn you
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: it's gonna get probably worse than it's gonna get worse
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: fashion than it's gonna get better. And that is because
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: most guys who go to note till Switch, especially the
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: ad guys, because Mayor's tale really proliferates once you go.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: There are certain weeds we sees that do better when
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: you plow, and there are certain we see that just
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: crank full bore when you know till. And you'll see
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: that we'd profile shift as you change from cultivation to
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: no tailing. And everybody likes to point the singer at
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: the no kill and say it just doesn't work, so
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: you have to study. They'll be that. Okay, I love football, right,
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: I love I love the idea of coaching football. I
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: just don't like the parents, um and most of the
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: other coaches. But so good. I've studied a lot of
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: really well known coaches and they'll often talk about finding
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: the point of weakness. Right. So, Yeah, you may have
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: a running back that can run a four to forty.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: He may be extremely talented at patient reading holes. He
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: may have you know, a hell of a line over
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: on the right side. But if you don't have a
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: center who can do his job, or if you don't
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: have a pulling tackle or guard who can help block,
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: he's used us. And that's really kind of how we
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: If you don't understand your weakness and the opponent's weakness,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: you will never win the battle against weeds. So they're
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: you know, stare if they are. Is a really good
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: resource um for folks to look at and learn about
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: the weed that you're facing and figure it out. Is
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: this an annual it's just a perennial. What what soil
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: temperatures and when does this weed germinates? So, for instance,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: in a weed that germanates in June July, it's it's
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: too late. Man, I've won. If I go into spring
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: with a heavy dance weed suppression matt thanks to my
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: roller crimper and a little bit of forethought, that weed
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have a chance in hell of competing with me. Now,
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: don't call me and tell me that you've got a
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: few of them. I get that's because they're right now.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: They're on steroids, they're they're super active. They've figured out
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: the way out, a way to get around our chemical
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: herbicides and become resistant. You will still have them, but
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: what you'll find is there's a threshold with weeds. Um. God,
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get beat by some of the guys in
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: the regenerative world for using that weeds word. But you know,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: you almost have to but you'll get ahead of it.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of time. And you know, constantly
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: planning and keeping the soiled armored, keeping the soil covered,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: and you know, again you'll you'll well adjust your tolerance
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: in your threshold as well at a certain point. I mean,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: I know guys who say to me, hey, I'm not
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: coming back to your farm again. They help you until
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: you kill all that rag weeds right, because they're they're
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: snotty and they just freeze. Usually they blame the the
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: golden rod because you can see it. It's showy. It's
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: not the golden rods read leaves. So yeah, culturally you
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: have to you have to just do some research on
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: the weeds, um, find out what it prefers. And let
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: me give you another example on weeds. Um. I get
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of these cockle burrs and you know, things
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: like that that stick to my dogs, stick to our
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: coats when you're hunting. It's a broad leaf. And one
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: thing I did was I shoved plant pain and some
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: other broad leaves in the ground constantly throughout the growing
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: season where I had. I mean, you could look down
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: from the tractor and just see these dcs millions and
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: millions of them, and you're thinking of yourself, Oh my gosh,
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: next year, it's going to be a disaster, right, um,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: But you could plant similar plants and culturally win that battle. So,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: so what about this scenario where you have a ute
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: unquote we or really what about a grassy, dense field
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: of some kind of some kind of grass and I
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: want to plant something new there. I want to start
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: this whole process. I want to plan a diverse blend
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: of food plots. But I've got a great, big, nasty
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: field of I don't know. Yeah, so you're thinking about
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: something grass field that, Yes, that's just you know, almost
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: an ankle breaker when you when you start out with
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: it and you walk over it, right, Yeah. So historically
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: you would you know, use one of those other forms
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: of weak control to then cleared out and plant something new.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: But how do I is there any way to do
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: that otherwise? Because right now I can't plant anything, and
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: I could, you know, chemically burn it. I could burn it,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: burn it, but I don't. I don't want to. You know,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: I'm agamp you over use of chemical curticized. Now I've
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: chosen my property not to use them simply because of
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: the impact they have on mile um and and also
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: on the ecosystem health. But I seem no problem if
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: you want to use a little bit to get started.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: Um would I do it? Probably not the way I
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: would work with it, And every field is different, right,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: I would obviously look at the field, see what I
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: have to deal with, think about my resource concerns, and
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: I would likely try to get ahead of that and
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: the fall growing season with a biennial, a biennial that
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: can compete with that. The next growing season, I'm gonna
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: throw a bunch of diversity. I'm gonna throw a bunch
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: of plant lives at it and drill right into it. Um.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: I'll probably crimp it in the fall when I drill
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: as well. And in some situations just ran into this
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: in Ohio we have found I've been talking to Rickenny
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: about this as well. In text is the soul of
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: scientists when you're when you're gunning and you're aiming for diversity,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: the one way to kill them is by plowing the field.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: So what Rick did was he took one of his
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: research plots and he said, okay, what if I lightly
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: did skid just to kind of you know, some of
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: us want to level of field out that's been rutted
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: maybe from the past, or you know, we're just starting
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: off the square one like you're saying. And Rick Rick
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: toldy one day on the phone, he said, Hey, you're
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: gonna love this while deep till is you know, chisel
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: world more plowing, Yeah, destructive, Never do get rid of it,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: he said. I did some light disking on the soil
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: and then just absolutely hammered it with diversity, just to
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: see if I could combat that light soul dis service,
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: he said, And I got my CEO two bursts, which
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: the two bursts is nothing more than um it tells
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: us how much biology is breathing in in that room.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: He said. That's CEO two bursts, after really like one season,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: got back to where it was. So I always tell guys, no,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: it don't take everything you hear literally if you've if
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: you've gone through all this, you can try to note
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: till it. Maybe you're avoiding ken goals. Maybe you did
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: a light application of glass to state or two four
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: D or whatever you selected and it didn't work. Um,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I still sold my disc. But I firmly
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: believe sometimes we may need to reintroduce a light disk again.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of this is kind of unconcested. When Rick
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: told me that I was, I was surprised. Actually I
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: had just sold my disk um. But yeah, once you
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: get your fields to where you know they're they're plantable, right,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: I mean some guys are starting with stack lanes and
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: early successional habitats. Obviously you have to get in there
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, crushed and brush and then probably manipulate
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: the soil a little bit. Yeah, there's um, there's always
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: the context, and there's always different things needed for different circumstances.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: That that makes a lot of sense. We somehow, I've
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: talked for almost two hours and I still have like
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: twenty different things I was curious to talk about which
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: we haven't read. Yeah, we probably need to wrap it up,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: but we might have to have a part two someday.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: But I guess before we before we do shut down,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: is there any burning thing on your mind that we
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: haven't talked about that you'll just be that you'll be
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: sitting at night tonight staying awake because he didn't get
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: to mention it. Or do you feel good about where
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: we're living things? And that's a great question, I think,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: um the for me, Yeah, and you may have heard
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: deep say this what changed the game for me? Before
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: I do anything on my property, on my farm, in
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: my field, anywhere, and just stopped. And I've got kids,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: I've got multiple companies that I run, and I'm busy,
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: I travel and I just observe for a minute, and
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: I think to myself, does this fall within those six principles?
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: There are cascading effects all the time and nature it's
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: never just one thing you're manipulating and changing. So am
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: I doing more to pump carbon and into the soil? Right?
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: That's always my I want to pump carb but people
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: are paying for you to sequester carbon in your soil.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: Think about that for a minute. Could you get paid
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: on the back forty by some nonprofit group a per
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: acre basis based on the amount of carbon use sequestering?
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: That's cool to me. Yeah, yeah, another income sources and
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: you're probably not gonna get rich, but hey, you know
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: it's an income source. You're stacking another income So I
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: think you know, for me, it's all about carbon. Carbon
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: is the driver of the system, is the currency of
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: the system. And um, you know again it's just in
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: my my promoting the life and the soil. We we
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: tend to walk on it and think it's just some
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: dirty media for grown plants, not at all true. UM,
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: and I will I'll finished with this. As might mentioned
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: carbon the term carbonomics comes to mind. UM. I've worked
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: with Keith Burns along with Keith Brian Burns his brother.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: They owned Green cover Seed. When I talked to people
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: about some of my ideas, everybody laughed at me. Everybody
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: told me, you know, going crazy. Keith and the guy's
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: Green cover Seed said Hey, what you're doing is exactly
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: what we do and we love the idea. Come join us.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: They helped me source everything from wild flowers for honeybees
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: to the plants I'm talking about in the Rito series.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: Keith did my favorite YouTube video of all time. If
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: you google Keith Burns b E r n s carbonomics,
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: and I mean people who aren't even into region. UM.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: I took micro and macro econ economics and college and
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: loved it. Most of the frat guys in there with me.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: It must have been an elective slept or to show up. UM.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: When he discussed with this, it almost makes you understand
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: why our economy is thriving so much right now, because
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: he simplifies economics into a dirt soil kind of way,
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: and he talks about carbon So, how do you recommend
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: you watched this video? We'll check that out. It sounds uh,
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: sounds very interesting. All this stuff has been fascinating to
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: me and it's been really fun to to dive into
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: it and start trying some things, you know, hitting, hitting
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: and missing here and there, but excited for you to
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: to learn from it and grow from it. And this
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: conversation is definitely gonna help. So Jason, thank you for that.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: And if folks want to learn more, people want to
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: learn more from you, want to learn more about your
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: products or services, all of that, where can they go
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: to find? It's all over? You know, I love when
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: people just call. I try my best answer calls. UM.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: You know my cell phone is just five seven zero
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: to zero four four zero six four. Please understand when
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: I get paid to consult, you know, they get my
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: undivided attention all day and sometimes even in the evening,
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: UM with tenners and such. My my emails Jason, that
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: drop time wildlife dot com. UM, that's probably the easiest
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: I can answer them at all times. And then I'm
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: not a huge fan of social media because it's just
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: it gets to be a lot after a while. But
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: we've created a closed group called Regenerative Wildlife Agriculture on Facebook. Um.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: That is fun because we kind of pushed the envelope
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: on some of this stuff. And then, of course, my
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: my consulting company, which has been around for nineteen years
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: is just drop Time Wildlife dot com. And my seed company,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: the drop Time Seed Company is drop Time Seed dot com.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: And I need to slow down. But the podcast, which
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: is really my first labor of love, um, doesn't have
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: a website. There's I am on Facebook with the drop
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: Time podcast and um that I just realized I have
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: waite too much going on. That's a lot, but it's
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of good stuff. So I'll
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: be sure to be staying up on all of that myself,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure a lot of listeners will too. So Jason,
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. Yes, sir, thank you,
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: and look forward talking to you the future. Yeah, I'm
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: gonna keep picking your brain all right, Thanks a lot,
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: Bye bye, and that's gonna do it for us today.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you all for tuning in. I know this is
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: different than the usual. This isn't your how to Kill
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: a Buck kind of episode, which I know is is
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: always helpful, but sometimes we've got to think about these
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: bigger picture issues. I think this is a really interesting
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: way to do that if you want to learn more.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: We do have a couple other podcast episodes that we
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: did last year that covers some of this. There's one
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: with Dr Grant Woods. There's another one with the guys
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: from Landing Legacy, go back check it out. There's one
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: the spring, there's one this summer. Those are very interesting
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: as well. Another resource that I recommend as a book
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: called Dirt to Soil by Gabe Brown. This is one
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: of the best books I've seen yet on this topic.
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: It's it's very tactical, but also uses a story to
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: take you through how you can go about utilizing these principles.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: So check that stuff out and I think with that
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: we will shut her down. So thank you for being here,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: thanks for listening, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.