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Biggest Cardinals Concerns Going Forward; Derrick Goold Joins! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: The midweek edition is generally professional athlete free, and today
0:16
Speaker 1: is no different as we have a very very special guest,
0:20
Speaker 1: Derek Gould of the Saint Lewis Post Dispatch in one
0:23
Speaker 1: on one ESPN Radio. Derek, I appreciate you coming on.
0:27
Speaker 1: We were talking about this. You and I never get
0:29
Speaker 1: to do this where it's just you and me talking
0:32
Speaker 1: like ever, so this should be a fun one.
0:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
0:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
0:36
Speaker 3: We don't have a We don't often have recorders nearby
0:40
Speaker 3: our banter in the clubhouse. We mostly have eye rolls
0:43
Speaker 3: from our peers and athletes trying to get away from us,
0:46
Speaker 3: so they're not involved in it.
0:47
Speaker 1: Right.
0:47
Speaker 3: Is that that usually how it works, right.
0:49
Speaker 1: That's very fair, it's and that's part of the job now.
0:53
Speaker 3: Public with all of our funniness, we're just we're doing
0:56
Speaker 3: this great.
0:57
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see about that. That's that's the viewers discretion.
1:02
Speaker 1: One of the things that we do first on Cardinal
1:04
Speaker 1: Territory is sell, sell, sell, So if you enjoy Cardinal Territory,
1:10
Speaker 1: go ahead and get some of the Cardinal Territory merch.
1:14
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1:27
Speaker 1: you know someone that does, go ahead and get something
1:30
Speaker 1: at Cardinal Territory shop dot com. Well, Derek. At the
1:35
Speaker 1: moment of this chat, the Cardinals are at five hundred
1:39
Speaker 1: fast start. Now they've lost the ring in a row.
1:42
Speaker 1: They have starting rotation issues, some bullpen issues, some issues
1:48
Speaker 1: with knowing how many outs there are. But we do
1:53
Speaker 1: have Jordan Walker. So let's talk about Jordan Walker. Obviously
1:58
Speaker 1: got his eighth last night. He is on a home
2:00
Speaker 1: run binge, one of the best starts in franchise history,
2:04
Speaker 1: and a twenty three year old guy who has struggled
2:07
Speaker 1: to get to this point. Give me your thoughts on
2:10
Speaker 1: what he's been able to achieve to this point.
2:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's remarkable and it should be uplifting
2:19
Speaker 3: for him. You know. It's kind of the results and
2:22
Speaker 3: positive feedback and energy and jolt of positivism that he's
2:27
Speaker 3: been searching for for really probably since his rookie year, Jim,
2:32
Speaker 3: and he's being rewarded for the work that he put in.
2:34
Speaker 3: I think that's no small thing to have so many hours,
2:38
Speaker 3: so many months, more than a year spent searching to
2:44
Speaker 3: have it then rewarded and rewarded in a big way.
2:46
Speaker 3: I mean eight home runs. You know, he's got six
2:48
Speaker 3: in the last seven. Those eight home runs match the
2:52
Speaker 3: home run performance for previous Cardinals in the first sixteen
2:55
Speaker 3: games of a guy named Mark McGuire in nineteen ninety
2:58
Speaker 3: eight and he did some special things that year. Or
3:01
Speaker 3: a guy named Stam Mugil in nineteen fifty four who
3:03
Speaker 3: did some special things that year. It's behind a guy
3:07
Speaker 3: named Albert Pooles who had eleven in the first sixteen
3:09
Speaker 3: games in two thousand and six, and the team did
3:12
Speaker 3: some special things later in that year. So I'm not
3:15
Speaker 3: comparing Walker to those hitters so much as that he
3:18
Speaker 3: gets to include his name in that list and get
3:24
Speaker 3: some kind of optimism and positivity and really reward for
3:29
Speaker 3: so much work. I think of it in like three stages.
3:32
Speaker 3: You know what we've watched with him, go back a
3:34
Speaker 3: year ago, almost to the date that he was in DC,
3:37
Speaker 3: and they just said, like, just find where you're comfortable,
3:40
Speaker 3: and they went him through all these drills where it
3:43
Speaker 3: wasn't like mechanics and swing based gym. It was like,
3:46
Speaker 3: just show us where your body's comfortable with the bat,
3:49
Speaker 3: and it even involved just holding the bat with his thumb,
3:51
Speaker 3: so he wasn't gripping it so tight. From there, you
3:55
Speaker 3: go to an off season where he was really dedicated
3:57
Speaker 3: to the movement and the kind of things that he
3:59
Speaker 3: wanted to do, and then you go to spring where,
4:02
Speaker 3: excuse me, we're in spring. He took three days away
4:05
Speaker 3: from the lineup and kind of put it back together
4:08
Speaker 3: and then came out of it, and this surge began.
4:11
Speaker 1: You're nervous being on a show with me, I understand,
4:13
Speaker 1: it happens. It happens.
4:16
Speaker 3: I have allergies, man, I think I think they're getting
4:18
Speaker 3: the best of me.
4:19
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but look, our our show is a show
4:22
Speaker 1: where everyone is free to cough and while you enjoy
4:25
Speaker 1: your beverage, I do think he'll coffee. Man. How how
4:29
Speaker 1: he got to this point is a remarkable story, and
4:32
Speaker 1: so tell me if I'm wrong. So, first of all,
4:36
Speaker 1: let's say this Walker is a wonderful twenty three year
4:40
Speaker 1: old guy. He's fun, he's fun to be around. He's
4:43
Speaker 1: a really good guy. But after what he's been through,
4:47
Speaker 1: where he's not hitting and people, you know, want them
4:49
Speaker 1: shipped out or you know, spring training, you know what
4:52
Speaker 1: are we doing? And now he's having this kind of
4:55
Speaker 1: success and he's the talk of baseball. And for a
4:58
Speaker 1: guy who just didn't want to overthink it, right, part
5:01
Speaker 1: of the success is simplifying thing things. He doesn't want
5:06
Speaker 1: to dwell on negative. He doesn't want to look back.
5:09
Speaker 1: He wants to look forward. And after every game everyone
5:12
Speaker 1: wants to know, hey, how have you done this? Have
5:13
Speaker 1: you changed? And he's reluctant to talk about it, but
5:17
Speaker 1: he got here because and tell me if I'm wrong.
5:22
Speaker 1: The cardinal hitting instructors we're talking about Brian Brown, Casey Chenner,
5:25
Speaker 1: who who was there with him in double A wh
5:28
Speaker 1: when he came up after that double A stint, he
5:31
Speaker 1: was good for a few weeks and then kind of regressed.
5:34
Speaker 1: But they basically Brent Brown calls it a compromise. They said,
5:38
Speaker 1: here's the day that it tells us maybe your hand
5:40
Speaker 1: should be here. They tweak with his hands a little bit,
5:43
Speaker 1: but otherwise said do what feels comfortable, and now we're
5:47
Speaker 1: seeing the results. Do I have that right?
5:50
Speaker 2: Yeah?
5:50
Speaker 3: I mean I think in broad rushes for sure. And
5:52
Speaker 3: you give that detail there about the hand position and
5:54
Speaker 3: the compromise. It's a great way that you describe it.
5:57
Speaker 3: And you know, I had just talk with with Jordan
6:01
Speaker 3: about how, you know, he was he knew what he
6:04
Speaker 3: needed to do with his swing, but some of the
6:06
Speaker 3: adjustments that he was making just felt so mechanical and
6:09
Speaker 3: robotic that it felt difficult. And then also doing it
6:13
Speaker 3: in the cage and then going out and into the field,
6:17
Speaker 3: it was difficult, right, especially when there wasn't the return,
6:20
Speaker 3: where like the book was out on how to pitch
6:23
Speaker 3: to him, and no matter what he was doing with
6:25
Speaker 3: his hand position or his openness at the plate, or
6:28
Speaker 3: what he was trying to do achieve you know, his
6:31
Speaker 3: mechanics wise with the with the bat, they were still
6:34
Speaker 3: attacking him the same way, and this pitch recognition was
6:36
Speaker 3: still off. He gave this great description Jim in the
6:40
Speaker 3: spring when I was talking to him about those three
6:42
Speaker 3: days that he spent in the batting cage, and he
6:44
Speaker 3: was talking about how there were there were parts of
6:47
Speaker 3: his old habits leaking into his new stance, and what
6:52
Speaker 3: that was creating was it was giving him, you know,
6:56
Speaker 3: just the it was making just a little bit off
6:58
Speaker 3: on pitch recognition. He was his head was moving so
7:01
Speaker 3: that he was going closer, trying to lean in or
7:04
Speaker 3: actually trying but leaning in toward the pitch, closing the gap,
7:08
Speaker 3: limiting the time that he had to identify the pitch,
7:12
Speaker 3: while also limiting the effectiveness of what he could cover
7:15
Speaker 3: in the strike zone. These two things were working against
7:18
Speaker 3: him and he had to like find, Okay, well where
7:20
Speaker 3: does that fit in my new mechanics and how do
7:22
Speaker 3: I do that? And that's what he was able to
7:24
Speaker 3: do was find the comfort release some of that anxiety
7:29
Speaker 3: that was drawing him forward, that was that was saying, Okay,
7:32
Speaker 3: you got to jump on this pitch. That he was
7:34
Speaker 3: overthinking things and he just kind of let it be
7:37
Speaker 3: and for the first time in a long time, specifically
7:40
Speaker 3: coming out of those days in spring, and I'll tell
7:43
Speaker 3: you one quick story that I think is fascinating, but
7:45
Speaker 3: specifically coming out of those days in spring, what you
7:47
Speaker 3: saw was this like really you know, ease to his
7:51
Speaker 3: approach and more athleticism to his swing, which is what
7:54
Speaker 3: he was looking for. There was also you can't you know,
7:58
Speaker 3: you can't ignore it. There was also this huge in
8:00
Speaker 3: that he had during one of the spring training games
8:02
Speaker 3: there towards the end is in West Palm Beach. He
8:04
Speaker 3: took a pitch. It was outside the zone. He tapped
8:07
Speaker 3: his helmet and he uh, you know, and he challenged
8:10
Speaker 3: the call. It was called to strike, but he felt
8:13
Speaker 3: it was outside the strikes, so he challenged it. Jim.
8:17
Speaker 3: The abs went up on the screen and the mic
8:19
Speaker 3: was open for the umpire obviously as it is, and
8:22
Speaker 3: the abs showed that indeed, Jordan was right. It was
8:25
Speaker 3: a ball. It was very very close, you know whatever,
8:27
Speaker 3: two tents one tents of an inch, very very close.
8:30
Speaker 3: And so he then goes, oh you like you hear
8:33
Speaker 3: him on the open mic, right, he goes, oh, whoa, whoa,
8:37
Speaker 3: And then he's just grinning like he's just laughing. He's
8:41
Speaker 3: at ease, you know. Ali Marmol talks about those shoulders
8:44
Speaker 3: kind of dropping a little bit and you feel uncomfortable.
8:47
Speaker 3: And that's what happened. And he stepped back in the box.
8:50
Speaker 3: He had a big grin on himself on his face.
8:52
Speaker 3: He he he had saved is it bat? The next
8:55
Speaker 3: swing he hit the ball seven four hundred and twenty
8:59
Speaker 3: feet to Cape Canaveral and it was like the moment, right,
9:04
Speaker 3: you don't want to over say that because you know
9:06
Speaker 3: he could struggle. He's had some struggle since, but just
9:09
Speaker 3: that moment where he could enjoy himself, he made the
9:12
Speaker 3: call to challenge it and then got positive reinforcement. Just
9:16
Speaker 3: think about how many times over the last few years
9:19
Speaker 3: where he hit the ball and the screws had everything
9:21
Speaker 3: right and he wasn't rewarded for it. And how much
9:25
Speaker 3: that can do for a guy to go, Gosh, I
9:27
Speaker 3: gotta go back to what I do well well. What
9:29
Speaker 3: you do well isn't what you need to do in
9:30
Speaker 3: the majors. Oh, but I need to do what I
9:32
Speaker 3: do well just to get some performance going. Now he's
9:36
Speaker 3: getting rewarded for what he needs to do well in
9:38
Speaker 3: in the majors. That's such a huge thing.
9:42
Speaker 1: And it adds confidence, which I think was a missing
9:45
Speaker 1: ingredient for Jordan Walker. And you could see it and
9:47
Speaker 1: everything you can and you talk about having a good
9:50
Speaker 1: time and you talk about being a baseball player. Last night,
9:54
Speaker 1: they're down big, and I mean he busts down the
9:58
Speaker 1: line to beat out an infield hit. I'm not saying
10:01
Speaker 1: every player you should do. I mean we should that's
10:04
Speaker 1: the way we look at baseball. But I mean he hustled,
10:07
Speaker 1: and then reaction from the dugout and the game that
10:10
Speaker 1: they were down and him trying to get his team
10:12
Speaker 1: pumped up. To me, that spoke a lot about where
10:15
Speaker 1: he is and the kind of young man he is.
10:18
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I think the world of that guy. Yeah.
10:21
Speaker 3: I think the performance at the plate has helped him
10:24
Speaker 3: be more aggressive in the field, has urged him to
10:27
Speaker 3: be more I mean, I think he's just he's letting,
10:30
Speaker 3: he's letting so much of his style of game out
10:35
Speaker 3: because he's not hesitant wondering when the next kind of
10:39
Speaker 3: you know, when the next brick is going to give
10:41
Speaker 3: way on his path. He's more, you know, he's more assertive.
10:46
Speaker 3: He's look, I mean, look at the throws that he
10:47
Speaker 3: had in Detroit. That is a that is a real
10:50
Speaker 3: gift that he had. That's a real strength of his
10:52
Speaker 3: defensive game always has been his arm strength. And he
10:55
Speaker 3: let it go, you know, and he showed it off
10:58
Speaker 3: and the word got out pretty quick. As you know,
11:01
Speaker 3: runners aren't less likely to try to take bases on
11:04
Speaker 3: him now because they've seen him not only have the
11:07
Speaker 3: armstring but here's a big part of it, but willing
11:10
Speaker 3: to use it and you know, I think there's a
11:12
Speaker 3: real level of aggressiveness to his game that is coming
11:16
Speaker 3: from that confidence.
11:17
Speaker 1: You put it well, Jim, I don't say that this
11:21
Speaker 1: guy's gonna end up with maguire home run totals this season.
11:25
Speaker 1: Kind of it's fun to talk about, Hey, he's on
11:27
Speaker 1: pace for over seventy homers. I get that. But I
11:31
Speaker 1: do think that they have unlocked something with Jordan Walker
11:35
Speaker 1: where he will be a very, very good player this year. Now,
11:38
Speaker 1: as you know, baseball is a game of adjustments. Now,
11:41
Speaker 1: everyone's looking at Jordan Walker thinking how has a different
11:45
Speaker 1: way to attack him? You know, does he leave something
11:48
Speaker 1: else open to try to get him out? Now, just
11:52
Speaker 1: give me your thoughts on the sustainability of Jordan Walker
11:56
Speaker 1: being a damage producing hitter for the long run.
12:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're gonna see in the next few
12:02
Speaker 3: weeks how willing he is to take his walks. You know,
12:06
Speaker 3: as you look at this lineup and it struggles. You know,
12:08
Speaker 3: I'm in seven consecutive home games now, and I know
12:11
Speaker 3: we'll talk a little bit about what they are going through.
12:15
Speaker 3: But when you think about what he could do next,
12:21
Speaker 3: you know, the notion is that he can like he's
12:25
Speaker 3: gonna have to adjust to them trying to see if
12:29
Speaker 3: he'll get himself out and because they don't want One
12:33
Speaker 3: of the things that opponents always do, and we see
12:35
Speaker 3: this constantly Jim is they'll take the guy who hits
12:38
Speaker 3: the singles to avoid the guy who does damage. Well,
12:42
Speaker 3: Jordan Walker is now the guy doing damage in the
12:44
Speaker 3: Cardinals lineup, So they'll pitch to the guys who are
12:48
Speaker 3: given singles until they don't have to, and they'll avoid
12:51
Speaker 3: the guy who's doing damage. So does he does he
12:54
Speaker 3: reach and try to force it or does he take
12:56
Speaker 3: his walks? I think, you know, it's very interesting because
12:59
Speaker 3: of these two roads are about to cross here. You
13:02
Speaker 3: had you know, Mason win take three walks in that
13:06
Speaker 3: loss to Cleveland. That's a big deal for him, just
13:09
Speaker 3: to get on base, find a way. He's searching for
13:11
Speaker 3: it offensively, He's trying to find some way to contribute.
13:14
Speaker 3: Those walks were a big deal and perhaps a sign
13:18
Speaker 3: of his command of the strike zone and his timing.
13:21
Speaker 3: Coming around on the other side, if Jordan in the
13:23
Speaker 3: next few weeks takes his walks and shows that no,
13:28
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to challenge him. You're gonna have to
13:30
Speaker 3: be in the zone, he's not gonna get himself out.
13:32
Speaker 3: That will be a big sign of how how how
13:35
Speaker 3: long a stretch this could be. And also Jim, how
13:38
Speaker 3: quickly he can shrink the slumps. That's that's always the
13:41
Speaker 3: mark of a really productive hitter, as you know, is
13:44
Speaker 3: not whether or not they have slum. Slumps are gonna happen,
13:46
Speaker 3: but how they shrink the slumps. How do they condense
13:49
Speaker 3: the slums to a limited amount of time, whether that
13:52
Speaker 3: be a week, a few games, a few of bats.
13:55
Speaker 3: You know, the better a hitter is the more they
13:57
Speaker 3: can condense the slumps.
14:00
Speaker 1: So Walker has eight home runs, the rest of the
14:02
Speaker 1: ball club has a total of nine. So some things
14:06
Speaker 1: are not going great for the Cardinals. We've mentioned the rotation,
14:10
Speaker 1: the bullpen, kind of lack of offense. We're gonna cover
14:14
Speaker 1: some of those topics after a short break. You're watching
14:17
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
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15:23
Speaker 1: Now, the Cardinals are in a rebuild, so Re said,
15:27
Speaker 1: however you want to however you want to phrase it.
15:30
Speaker 1: So you knew there's going to be growing pain. So
15:31
Speaker 1: the Cardinals get off to a fast star and everything's
15:34
Speaker 1: going great, and now some issues crop up, and to me,
15:40
Speaker 1: like this is kind of what I knew what was coming.
15:42
Speaker 1: At least that's what I believe. We're going to see
15:45
Speaker 1: some good baseball. Certainly this team is capable of reeling
15:48
Speaker 1: off a five to six seven game winning streak, but
15:51
Speaker 1: we're going to see some bumps in the room. Here
15:52
Speaker 1: are the bumps now. So one of the things the
15:55
Speaker 1: starting rotation first time through pretty good. Overall, pretty good,
16:00
Speaker 1: but some bumps have suddenly cropped up, and you're dealing
16:04
Speaker 1: with a young rotation, some guys really getting stretched out
16:07
Speaker 1: as starters for the first time. Certainly May was good
16:11
Speaker 1: in his last start. My greeview goes today has been excellent.
16:15
Speaker 1: But with this rotation, right, we're going to see some
16:18
Speaker 1: ups and downs. And I, to me, I kind of
16:22
Speaker 1: felt like this was coming. Are you not surprised that
16:25
Speaker 1: we're going to see, you know, a little bit of
16:27
Speaker 1: this with the starting rotation. And the good news is
16:30
Speaker 1: the Cardinals also have other pieces in the miners that
16:34
Speaker 1: are looking for an opportunity at some point. Yeah.
16:37
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think it's predictable, right. Some of
16:40
Speaker 3: it is because of how they set their schedule, and
16:44
Speaker 3: they're really conservative with say pitch counts and innings in
16:47
Speaker 3: April because they want to avoid injuries later. It works
16:50
Speaker 3: so well a year ago, we're seeing the same kind
16:53
Speaker 3: of kind of schedule this year. You know, Dustin May,
16:55
Speaker 3: for example, always lines up where he was going to
16:58
Speaker 3: get the most off days, of the most additional off
17:01
Speaker 3: days particularly important to him as he comes back from injury.
17:05
Speaker 3: The Cardinals want to make sure he's at his best
17:08
Speaker 3: there towards the heart of the season, and then in
17:10
Speaker 3: the late in the season, whether he's with them or
17:13
Speaker 3: he's traded for pieces that help their rebuild, any of
17:17
Speaker 3: that thing. But I think anytime you go, okay, I'm
17:20
Speaker 3: going to take somebody out of the bullpen and put
17:22
Speaker 3: them in the rotation, you are allowing for some turbulence
17:26
Speaker 3: both in the rotation as that person adjusts to the
17:31
Speaker 3: innings demanded there, but you're also inviting some turbulence in
17:34
Speaker 3: the bullpen by removing a person who was obviously pitching
17:38
Speaker 3: well enough in a role on the bullpen that made
17:40
Speaker 3: you think, oh, he could be a starter. So I
17:42
Speaker 3: think so many of the things that the Cardinals are
17:44
Speaker 3: kind of experiencing right now, Like if you look out
17:45
Speaker 3: at the bullpen and you go, man, what are they missing,
17:48
Speaker 3: they're kind of missing Kyle Lahy and you look to
17:50
Speaker 3: the rotation and you go, Okay, what are they kind
17:52
Speaker 3: of missing. Well, they're having a cover for innings from
17:54
Speaker 3: some of these short starts, a couple of which have
17:57
Speaker 3: come from Kyle lay So that's not to drop it
18:00
Speaker 3: all on Kyle a Hey. That's more to illuminate like
18:03
Speaker 3: what the Cardinals are doing. They're trying to build towards something,
18:07
Speaker 3: and they're willing to take the turbulence now in both
18:11
Speaker 3: elements of that game to be greater later. That goes
18:14
Speaker 3: for the bullpen, where they'd really like for Swanson to
18:17
Speaker 3: emerge and take that role, if not a bigger one,
18:18
Speaker 3: he's struggled at times. They really want Kyle a Hey
18:21
Speaker 3: to maximize his ceiling, which he has increased and heightened
18:24
Speaker 3: with his performance in the Majors, and they think he
18:27
Speaker 3: can be an excellent starter in the same way that
18:30
Speaker 3: Matthew Libertoire was this past year, Jim you know, where
18:32
Speaker 3: he took that role and kind of ran with it
18:34
Speaker 3: and was the opening day starter. So they're trying to
18:37
Speaker 3: reach higher ceilings with those two guys and more, and
18:41
Speaker 3: they're willing to kind of take whatever buffetting comes because
18:44
Speaker 3: of it now.
18:47
Speaker 1: You mentioned Swonson, who was so good in a bullpen
18:50
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, and he's had a rough, rough go
18:53
Speaker 1: of it so far. And I talked to him about it.
18:55
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have, but he said, look that the
18:58
Speaker 1: execution isn't great, but it's not been that terrible. He said, Really,
19:03
Speaker 1: as as he's thought about and talked about it with
19:06
Speaker 1: the coaches, is he's stowing the wrong pitch in the
19:09
Speaker 1: wrong situation too many times and been too predictable. I
19:14
Speaker 1: just look at Sponson as a guy sometimes you think,
19:17
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't that this is a guy who was a
19:20
Speaker 1: was a bullpen guy in the minors, like he was
19:23
Speaker 1: raised to do this and was really good at the
19:25
Speaker 1: big league level last year. I think it'll snap back in.
19:30
Speaker 1: I think you can fix that guy and he can
19:32
Speaker 1: be Sponson again. What do you think?
19:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you know, it's not unusual
19:37
Speaker 3: for a reliever to kind of go through the cycle.
19:39
Speaker 1: Right.
19:40
Speaker 3: We saw with Ryan Fernandez. We continue to see it
19:42
Speaker 3: with Ryan Fernandez. We saw with Andre Palante until he
19:45
Speaker 3: reinvented himself as a starter. Guy has a great pitch,
19:48
Speaker 3: a singular pitch, one that is very difficult on hitters.
19:52
Speaker 3: Whether that's you know, the Andre Polant's counterintuitive sinker that
19:55
Speaker 3: he threw and really defied lefties and still has that pitch,
19:59
Speaker 3: but left he's a job did they were able to
20:00
Speaker 3: scoop it out and do it, you know, and hit
20:02
Speaker 3: it for damage. Ryan Fernandez lost a little bit of
20:05
Speaker 3: that vert on his fastball. But that fastball, when it's right,
20:08
Speaker 3: it play plays and it plays up. But hitters adjust
20:11
Speaker 3: to that and they can ignore it either in the
20:13
Speaker 3: abs world or they can or they can wait on
20:16
Speaker 3: something else. I think you're seeing this. I mean, like
20:20
Speaker 3: there is some things that repeat, and with Swanson, that
20:22
Speaker 3: is what's happening. He's got a great sinker, power sinker,
20:26
Speaker 3: but hitters have adjusted to it. They've hunted it, they've
20:28
Speaker 3: gone after it. They're hitting it. Six consecutive singles the
20:34
Speaker 3: other night. Five of them were on that sinker. So yeah,
20:37
Speaker 3: he's got to adjust his mix or throw something else
20:40
Speaker 3: in there, or give them a different look. That pitch
20:43
Speaker 3: hasn't It can still be effective, but he has to
20:45
Speaker 3: throw them off of it to make it so, you know,
20:48
Speaker 3: and that's the adjustment that comes right. They hitters and
20:51
Speaker 3: other teams are aware. He was able to kind of
20:54
Speaker 3: buzz saw through teams. Last year saw him only a
20:57
Speaker 3: few times, not many people saw him all that much.
21:00
Speaker 3: Many hitters saw him all that much. Different approach this year.
21:03
Speaker 3: They know what pitched the key on and they are
21:06
Speaker 3: and so now he's got to adjust and figure out
21:08
Speaker 3: how to get them off that pitch because it's still
21:10
Speaker 3: a very effective pitch, can still be a swing and
21:13
Speaker 3: miss pitch for him. He's still executing at it with
21:16
Speaker 3: a strong velocity and good movement. It's just a matter
21:19
Speaker 3: about like what else are what else can he throw
21:21
Speaker 3: at them to throw the hitter, to give the hitter
21:24
Speaker 3: something else to think about, And that's where he's at.
21:27
Speaker 1: They were hitting some rockets so far, young friend, big
21:30
Speaker 1: picture stuff, and we talked a little bit about it
21:33
Speaker 1: last night, no camera and no microphone around. But so
21:37
Speaker 1: it's been fun watching Jordan Walker, right, But over the
21:41
Speaker 1: last batch of games, it's kind of been a one
21:43
Speaker 1: man show. Right. The early stuff we saw from the
21:46
Speaker 1: Cardinals that was good, and Atler kind of in the
21:48
Speaker 1: down period, which we already mentioned, there's going to be
21:51
Speaker 1: ups and downs with the Young ball Club. But my
21:54
Speaker 1: question is about the fan base. So look, the Cardinals fans,
21:59
Speaker 1: they let ownership, No, we're not showing up if you
22:02
Speaker 1: don't put a good product. And the duets made a decision,
22:06
Speaker 1: let's reset the whole thing. Let's build up the minor leagues.
22:10
Speaker 1: Let's help our instruction and get all the technical stuff
22:13
Speaker 1: in there, and then we will see the fruits a
22:15
Speaker 1: little bit down the road. And everyone was like great,
22:18
Speaker 1: and I think the fans were on board. I think
22:20
Speaker 1: him's done a good job reaching out to the fans
22:23
Speaker 1: where they understand what his job is and what his
22:26
Speaker 1: vision is. I think College has done a great job
22:29
Speaker 1: being accessible and communicat communicative with the fans as well.
22:34
Speaker 1: But now the rubber meets the road. Let's just say
22:39
Speaker 1: it turns into the three. Now it's four or five, six,
22:42
Speaker 1: seven game losing streak. Now everyone was on board. We
22:45
Speaker 1: got young look at all these trades, we got young talent,
22:47
Speaker 1: look at our minor league system. But if we're not
22:50
Speaker 1: winning up here, I say we collectively as the fan base, right,
22:55
Speaker 1: is that gonna watch with Cardinal Nation? And are we
23:00
Speaker 1: going to see at some point the uh, the bloom
23:04
Speaker 1: come off the you know a little bit with what's
23:07
Speaker 1: going on and the rebuild and the early success.
23:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a real concern, and I think
23:13
Speaker 3: it doesn't happen in a vacuum, you know. I mean,
23:14
Speaker 3: the Cardinals are at this real delicate period both in there,
23:18
Speaker 3: you know, in their competitive cycle, where they're trying to
23:22
Speaker 3: fortify and build the reserves of talent that will fuel
23:27
Speaker 3: the next contending team for a long while, and including
23:31
Speaker 3: identifying the core that will be a part of that.
23:34
Speaker 3: They're also in a spot where they are they're they're
23:37
Speaker 3: trying to reinvigorate and re establish a connection with a
23:43
Speaker 3: historically strong fan base that is dealing with a lot
23:47
Speaker 3: of stressors beyond the standings. I don't want to say
23:52
Speaker 3: that the fan base is disenchanted, but there there's definitely
23:55
Speaker 3: an element of that. There's definitely not an apathy though.
23:59
Speaker 3: That's what the Cardinals need to worry about, is that
24:02
Speaker 3: if they just let their if they just become a
24:05
Speaker 3: place where the fans they're they're not even angry about
24:09
Speaker 3: what the team is doing anymore, then that's a worse
24:12
Speaker 3: place to be than at least if fans are passionately
24:14
Speaker 3: angry about what's happening, you know. And then there's also
24:18
Speaker 3: the element of like the entertainment on the You and
24:20
Speaker 3: I see it. We see it at Paul Parks around
24:24
Speaker 3: the country. We see it at football stadiums, you know,
24:26
Speaker 3: battle Hawks, we see it less A Blues games, you
24:28
Speaker 3: see in movie theaters. You see it everything that the
24:30
Speaker 3: entertainment dollar is being squeezed and as ticket prices go
24:34
Speaker 3: up or parking costs more, or you know that that
24:38
Speaker 3: the Cardinals used to really count on Jim that that
24:41
Speaker 3: family trip from Arkansas or Tennessee or Iowa, that we
24:46
Speaker 3: can get away for that series to see the Cardinals
24:48
Speaker 3: because there's such a regional team. You know what, gas
24:52
Speaker 3: prices are up, buddy, and entertainment dollar is down, and
24:56
Speaker 3: these are factors that are going to play into it
24:59
Speaker 3: if the Cardinals aren't putting a product on the field
25:02
Speaker 3: and also aren't making the field itself part of that product,
25:06
Speaker 3: which I will give credit where credit due. The game
25:09
Speaker 3: going experience this year, it's really heightened, it's really been improved.
25:14
Speaker 3: There's creativity galore. They're not just relying on Todd to
25:19
Speaker 3: kind of carry a lot of it and his with
25:21
Speaker 3: his enthusiasm. There's there's better stuff with the scoreboard, there's
25:26
Speaker 3: the the high school bar, the pop up, the connection
25:30
Speaker 3: with the different local restaurants that they're doing, all those
25:34
Speaker 3: things are super positive. I think that Kid's Sunday stuff
25:38
Speaker 3: that they're doing on the scoreboard, if I can get
25:40
Speaker 3: really inside baseball with the Nickelodeon style fonts and the
25:44
Speaker 3: players showing more of their personalities, I think that stuff
25:48
Speaker 3: is excellent. You know that that if you go to
25:50
Speaker 3: a game on Sunday and you see the scoreboard details
25:54
Speaker 3: and videos and everything like that, know that those are
25:57
Speaker 3: there for Sunday. And how often could we see that.
26:00
Speaker 3: In the past twenty years of this ballpark, so much
26:04
Speaker 3: of it was this is what they are, this is
26:06
Speaker 3: what fans come to expect, this is the product we're
26:08
Speaker 3: going to. Well, there's there's more creativity, there's more inventive
26:10
Speaker 3: this there. But I think that speaks to like just
26:12
Speaker 3: where the Cardinals are, because they they do need to
26:15
Speaker 3: re engage their fans where they're at, and they do
26:19
Speaker 3: have to re energize them. I don't think this team
26:23
Speaker 3: has captured the imagination of their fan base since Albert's
26:27
Speaker 3: chased for seven hundred, and that's a once in four
26:31
Speaker 3: or five generation event, a once in for never event. Really,
26:36
Speaker 3: I mean there's no other Cardinal that's it's seven hundred
26:38
Speaker 3: home runs, right, So that's a that's a once in
26:41
Speaker 3: never thing coming out of that. That the team had
26:46
Speaker 3: really good players. They had two MVP candidates that same
26:49
Speaker 3: year who were not Albert Pooles. But the style of
26:53
Speaker 3: play or the results on the field, are the standings
26:56
Speaker 3: or just the atmosphere at the ballpark, we're creating kind
26:59
Speaker 3: of a illness that they need to find a way
27:03
Speaker 3: to reinvigorate and that and that's where they're at. And
27:07
Speaker 3: you know, I'm told again and again and again that
27:09
Speaker 3: the easiest way to do that is to win. And
27:12
Speaker 3: that is so true. Win just can just win. Put
27:16
Speaker 3: out a winning team out there. Well, Cardinals are in
27:18
Speaker 3: a rebuild, so they have to outfit that winning team
27:21
Speaker 3: with other reasons to come to the ballpark, Jim, and
27:24
Speaker 3: I think that makes this such a fascinating era but
27:26
Speaker 3: also such a fragile time too for the Cardinals.
27:31
Speaker 1: I agree with everything you're saying. I will say that,
27:34
Speaker 1: I mean they have enough young players that play an
27:37
Speaker 1: exciting brand of baseball. They can ease stretches where you're
27:41
Speaker 1: not winning, like I think Mason wins a heck football player.
27:44
Speaker 1: I think I think he's worth the price of mission. Certainly,
27:47
Speaker 1: what Walker's doing is worth the price of ambission. So
27:51
Speaker 1: Victor Scott the Second can't get there. I think they
27:54
Speaker 1: got a guy like McGreevy. I do think they. To me,
27:57
Speaker 1: Burley has turned himself into one of the better hitters
28:01
Speaker 1: in baseball all the different ways. So they have pieces.
28:04
Speaker 1: But I think the fan base has to understand too
28:07
Speaker 1: that if you are rebuilding and you are doing other
28:11
Speaker 1: things to make sure what you're doing on the good
28:14
Speaker 1: side is sustainable, there's gonna be some growing pains. And uh,
28:19
Speaker 1: were you able to.
28:21
Speaker 3: Were you able to hear the role call last night?
28:23
Speaker 3: Did you hear the roll call attempt last night?
28:26
Speaker 1: Great?
28:27
Speaker 3: That's great, great, Like that should be encouraged like that
28:30
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. And I'm so glad you brought because
28:33
Speaker 3: like what Jordan Walker is doing, that could be appointment TV.
28:37
Speaker 3: That could be a pointment, like people will like I
28:39
Speaker 3: want to go see this, I want to go see
28:41
Speaker 3: what he's doing. So there is something to that for sure.
28:45
Speaker 3: I'm eager to see if a good defensive team brings
28:49
Speaker 3: people to the ballpark, is that entertainment? But certainly a
28:52
Speaker 3: speed team has in the past, right, if they could
28:54
Speaker 3: connect with their roots that way that's happened, you know,
29:00
Speaker 3: the potential is there a new outline really where I
29:02
Speaker 3: just think that we can't just only focus on the
29:03
Speaker 3: factors of what's on the field. That's a big, huge,
29:06
Speaker 3: major part of it, but there are other stresses in
29:08
Speaker 3: the economy that are creating us as well well.
29:11
Speaker 1: Derek, I gotta say it was a great conversation. I
29:13
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. I hope you did, and I think we
29:16
Speaker 1: both agree that there are a lot of reasons to
29:19
Speaker 1: watch this ball club understanding you know, what could be ahead,
29:23
Speaker 1: could be some good, not so good, but very as
29:27
Speaker 1: you put it, it's a very interesting season. I look
29:30
Speaker 1: forward to seeing how it all plays out, Derek. I
29:33
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Derek Cool Yeah, bust dispatch in one
29:36
Speaker 1: on one ESPN Radio. I hope you enjoyed it.
29:39
Speaker 3: I did. I had a great time.
29:40
Speaker 1: Jim.
29:41
Speaker 3: This is I think it's a I think it's a
29:42
Speaker 3: good time to tell stories and to have debate about
29:46
Speaker 3: the Cardinals. You know, it's like it's like, what was
29:48
Speaker 3: there to debate about the four O five Cardinals? Right? Oh,
29:51
Speaker 3: they're good, They're gonna be good? How good are they
29:53
Speaker 3: going to be? Now we get to like discuss like
29:55
Speaker 3: what something way different? Right, The question isn't like how
29:58
Speaker 3: good are the Cardinals are going to be? It's something
30:00
Speaker 3: far more profound. It's what are the Cardinals going to be?
30:04
Speaker 3: Not just as a team, but what are they going
30:06
Speaker 3: to be as a franchise. That's that's fascinating. And I
30:08
Speaker 3: know and I think that like the way that excites,
30:13
Speaker 3: that conversation excites and also frustrates the fan base is
30:18
Speaker 3: real and it shows the passion the fans have for
30:20
Speaker 3: this team.
30:22
Speaker 1: Cardinal Baseball matters in Saint Louis, win, lose or draw,
30:26
Speaker 1: it matters. That's going to do it for this edition
30:29
Speaker 1: of Cardinal Territory. Hopefully you'll join us for the next one,
30:32
Speaker 1: and hopefully that one won't suck.