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Why Environmental Due Diligence Matters with Danielle Vail & Sarah Johnson - TLP182 · The Land Development Podcast with Ryan Glick

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sword is a double-edged sword, really cool for people that like birds, really not cool as a developer because there's a lot of protective species that have seasonal surveys yet to do, and you can only do them once or twice a year, even so if you miss that survey window, you have to wait a whole month cycle sometime.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, what's going on, everybody?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Land Development Podcast.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: I am your host, Ryan Glick.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: We have an interview episode for you today and actually have two people joining us on the show.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have Danielle Vale and Sarah Johnson, who are both environmental project managers at Kimley Horn.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining me.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, excited to be here.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the opportunity.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, we talked just before we pressed record and said that, hey, since there's two of you on here, um, we have a tendency to step on people's toes when we have a bunch of people on here on a video uh podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: But to get us started, we'll we'll go to each of you individually here and we'll start with you, Danielle.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So what got you into the environmental science field?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then also how did you end up shifting from there?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine there's a bunch of things you could do, but you ended up in land development.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So could you walk us through how you got into that?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: In a very roundabout way.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, like everybody from Florida, I wanted to be a marine biologist.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I actually went to school and got my master's in ecology uh doing marine uh wildlife studies.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But my undergrad was in forestry.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I after doing research in grad school, um, I went and applied for some consulting positions in the Tampa Bay area, got my first job, uh, and then made my way through doing mostly mining work to doing uh utility work to now at Kinley Horn doing a whole lot of everything.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a very roundabout way, but it was honestly my background in natural resources and forestry that got me to this point.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So the marine biologist path that you wanted to go down, what would you know, in your dream scenario of that, what would that have looked like for you if you would have gone down that path?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just live in the keys.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't present too many like growth opportunities down there in uh that that field.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh getting more well-rounded approach to Florida's ecosystems is kind of push for that made me uh kind of switched careers.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Sarah, how about you?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: What was your path in getting into this field?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um I didn't wasn't into marine biology, but I didn't really know when I graduated as undergraduate what I wanted to do, so I just kept going to school.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I met my future husband, and he was going to school in Florida, so I came out there and um thought I could be a teacher because uh everyone in my family is a teacher, and I tried that and it just wasn't for me.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband told me that um people got paid to watch birds out here, and I was like, wow, I need to do that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I happened to uh know some people that worked at a place and I applied and they went from there.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: What uh grade were you gonna teach if you were gonna be a teacher?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I did.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I stepped into it seventh grade um science, but it was like an inner city school with like not a lot of um support.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was different from the the teaching that I knew.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, seventh grade would be tough.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have uh well, seventh going into eighth grade now, and uh I can't imagine trying to teach a bunch of him inside of uh inside of a class closed in space, yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, that would be challenging.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's uh let's talk a little bit about your company.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So Kimley Horn, I'm sure most people listening in are familiar, but for those who are tuning in that may not be familiar, could uh could you talk about what the company does and then also the area of the company that the two of you actually work in?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Kimley Horn's primarily consultants, um, and more heavily weighted on engineering consulting, but um a lot of other disciplines as well.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Danielle and I are in the environmental um side of things, and even within environmental, um, it's broken down into you know contamination, natural resources, air quality, uh noise, all sorts of fun environmental stuff.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we are lucky enough to work at Kimley Horn in Florida, where there's a lot of uh job opportunities, but our company does work across the US, and we actually just opened up our first international office in um Canada, so that's also exciting.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have listeners in Canada to the show, so I'm sure them tuning in will uh they can look for Kimley Horn up there in Canada now.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, for for developers that you know are tuning in, I always like I've had a couple others in the environmental space on the show in the past, and I think it's interesting to get your perspective on what do you think when you work with developers on projects and everything, and you're doing the environmental portion of those projects, what tends to be the things you see developers overlook the most?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's probably different in Florida than than other states, I would imagine.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um, for the two of you, you know, maybe uh uh Danielle, you want to start, what what do you see being the biggest thing that gets overlooked?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh doing your due diligence from the environmental perspective.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't really get like boots on the ground on a property before you buy it or you develop it, and you don't plug in, you know, a professional in the environmental field, um, there are situations you can get yourself into, um like not knowing timelines for permitting, um, depending on what is out there on your property.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably the biggest part.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's pulling in environmental early to do due diligence to be prepared for those obstacles to meet your uh your deadlines.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that developers over the years, from your perspective, have become more educated in this field?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you feel okay, I wasn't sure if they versus it still being a massive gap.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's still a gap there, but is has it gotten better, do you think, over the years?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think once you get burned enough by, you know, not meeting deadlines or having a surprise listed species on your property, uh, working with developers, they are uh much more proactive in involving environmental from the beginning.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think over the last five years, the permitting landscape has changed back and forth a lot.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so they realize that um they should probably call in the experts early on, and so I think that's helped them understand the process a whole lot more.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happens if a developer goes at it alone and they don't necessarily bring in someone in this space?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the some of the pitfalls that they can run into?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can just say from experience, just one specific species uh in Florida, the gopher tortoise, if you don't know that they're on your property and you get to like your local approvals and they're asking for a survey, and then you go out there, it's a huge cost that you have to incur.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that you probably would have wanted to know prior to you know purchasing your property and even like the development layout because each tortoise itself is can range anywhere from five thousand to ten thousand dollars just for the tortoise that doesn't include labor or permitting fees or anything like that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it adds up really, really quick.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's if you start to turn dirt before you do the proper studies to discover that they're there.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, you discover them as you're already doing construction.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is that where the problem comes in?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because then you have to stop all work, you have to pull a permit, that could take time, and you know, there's a lot of background coordination that goes into it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just one specific example of uh you know property that I've I've helped on where they didn't know there was any tortoises, and we found like 30 burrows, and they were supposed to go to land clearing like the next week.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot of pressure on us, but that's okay.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anything that uh stops uh active construction is highly expensive for everybody.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then there's a lot of pressure to get the permit quickly, and those Governor's permit relocations don't happen quickly, so you're looking at 30 to 40 days before you can even get the permit to relocate them.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really good example.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I've had a lot of developers on the show over the last couple of years, and one of the things that has been brought up multiple times is the complaint about the cost to do some of the uh the relocation of different species and everything.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, or or the the time it takes, or you you can only move them during certain seasons and and this is in different parts of the country and everything.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I would assume most of that it just kind of is what it is.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's not any changing of what that uh what those different processes are and procedures are for all the different, you know, species types and everything.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is that really developers just have to kind of deal with this?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's no getting around it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree with that?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think that there's different approaches you can take if you do a better job planning ahead of time, then you would know that this species is there and you can only move them during this time of the year and everything, so you can plan your project around it?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's when Danielle said due diligence is uh you can't underestimate the importance of due diligence.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: We do like a habitat assessment, and even if we don't see the species, we give it a um a probability of being there.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that exactly what you mentioned, they at least know what are the chances that this habitat could support the species.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then they can wait a little bit till they have their design plans and then do the full survey for that species.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Florida's a double-edged sword, really cool for people that like birds, really not cool as a developer because there's a lot of protective species that have seasonal surveys you have to do, and you can only do them once or twice a year, even.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if you miss that survey window, you have to wait a full mother cycle sometime.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it is good to know early on what you could be dealing with, and then plan that in the correct year that you want to get your permit so that you don't waste any time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, gotcha.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, what does that timing look like then?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a developer, I have my eye on a piece of land that I want to do a project on.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I would imagine before I even go and get the land under contract, or maybe I get it under contract, but I have the ability to, you know, opt out of that contract if there's something found there during the environmental uh period of it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do you think that people should get involved, you know, before or when you're just looking at a piece of land, or I guess what's the time frame you think people should get involved or get someone like you involved in the process?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, Danielle.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say when you're in that purchasing phase.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um working with, you know, realtors and land developers, when you're going through this process, you definitely want somebody there at the beginning because it's not just like the list of species that the protected species we've been talking about.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: You could have wetlands on your property, they could be federally like protected, we you know, it's all those things that kind of play into your timeline to getting to that point of you know, protect dirt.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those all factor into it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely I would say if you have a time frame in mind and it's a it's a pretty strict one, um I would I would consult with an environmental consultant like from the beginning.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't ask this at the beginning, but did the two of you like the way you do your your particular jobs, do you, is it mainly office or are you out in the field also?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a mix, or what does that look like?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a mix depending on which bird is on the site, whether I want it out there or not, what time of year um the field review is.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: But um for our team, we have like eight people in the Tampa office.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really dependent on if there's a specialty item, like um Danielle's certified Arborist.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if they need a tree survey, then she's gonna be the one that goes out there.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or if it can just be a general um due diligence, then we send out like you know, whoever's first available, depending on the timeline of what's due.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we both do a mix of fieldwork and office work.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Danielle probably has a healthier mix.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more in the office unfortunately.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it really just depends on the week.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're a very um flexible practice where you always get something last minute of hey, we didn't realize this was out here.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Can you guys go do this?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like now.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say maybe two days a week in the field, three days in the office, uh, but it really depends on the week and the level of effort uh needed for a certain project.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're out there walking a site, the thing I was curious about was what's what are some of the things when you actually get on site that you're looking for?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, wetlands for sure.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, we usually have two people in the field, um at least depending on the size of the site.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So usually one person is, you know, look for wetlands or different protected species, but we do a lot of prep work before we even go out in the field and we look at what's been known in that area, what historically the site has looked at, so we kind of have an idea what we're um gonna encounter when we're out there.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of desktop review before even going onto the site.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: We use LiDAR, that's a huge help.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh historical aerials.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a ton of databases for any kind of protected species that we can pull from the federal to the state level, and even some uh local municipalities have uh good database systems we can use.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any examples of some projects that you've worked on?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're able to talk about them, but that may showcase how you getting out there early were able to help the project, you know, hit a certain timeline or were able to help a project avoid some of those excessive costs if they would have gone ahead with a project before doing that proper due diligence.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't think of one specific project, but um multiple projects I've done for roadway widening, depending on the location of the site, it's like uh looking for care care nests, because if you have uh a nest within a certain distance from where your project is, that requires additional federal coordination, mitigation.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so even if you know about that five to ten years before construction happens, it's helpful because then you can keep track of it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is that nest still there in two years or four years?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that look like as far as the project, the schedule for it, the cost of it, those sorts of things?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure, Danielle, if you have a different example.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's a pretty uh good one.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just not even knowing that like a caretaker has a huge like distance radius around the nest, and being able to plan huge projects like roadway whitenings or expansions, I mean that's a major factor to get ahead of.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we've spent a lot of early mornings driving out to the sites.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have to be there a half hour before sunrise.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then we stay there three hours, three and a half hours, depending on the bird.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's a species that you can only do uh you have to do it January through the end of April.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you start your project in February, it's not a full survey, and so you have to, you know, finish it again the following year.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one that's really important here in Central and South Florida.
• 17:20
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• 17:25
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• 17:30
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• 18:10
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• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's get back to the show.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So do you you have a pretty good feel before you go out into the field of what you're looking for, just based on where it's at and everything, and obviously your expertise.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not you're probably not completely uh blindsided by anything out there at a site.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that happens from time to time, but for the most part, would you say that because of where it sits and maybe other projects you've done or just understanding that uh geography and stuff that you know what you're looking for when you go out to a site?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for the most part, I would say the stuff in the water is you know, the water environment, that stuff changes and is less well documented over time compared to like the land species in wetlands.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's maybe a little bit more unpredictable, I would say.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sites change.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will go to the same site a few times and let's say they pulled cattle off, it completely changes it, and it'll completely change uh the species that are present out there.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So those those are definitely variables that end just whack of fire.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It gets really, really thick sometimes on sites, uh, and that's not always predictable.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: You get it looks great on aerial, you get out there, and you're like, oh no, I'm crawling.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Literally crawling.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: How about uh with some of the you know recent storms and stuff that you've had down there with hurricanes and everything and uh tropical storms and just some of the impacts that, you know, I'm obviously not down there in your area, but from what I see from afar, you know, you read a lot about different businesses or thinking about moving more inland and you know, some of the, you know, some of the work that you might do more out toward the coasts.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, being in Tampa, obviously uh on the Gulf side.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: What has has that changed anything with uh some of the environmental work that you're doing?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Does that play into it at all?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I would say yes and no.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's just been a shift on the coastal uh work to resiliency.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a lot of the local municipalities, that is their focus now.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but Florida is just a quickly expanding state.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about available land.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So naturally, people populated the coast first.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we do see a lot of um developments going inland, and I think that's just because they're we're out of room along the coast.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of initiatives for you know, uh trying to not have it as bad as it was uh when it comes to the hurricanes.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think also we've seen a lot of development in relation to where the interstates are.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some businesses need that quick transport, and so those areas are not right, not always directly on the coast.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so the development within a few miles of the interstates and major highways um in the maybe the last five, ten years has really gone up a lot.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So hypothetical for the two of you.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if uh if I came to you with a raw piece of land, what would be the first thing that you're gonna do?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would tell you there's no easy sites left in Florida.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are all all the easy ones have been developed or on development.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Probably just going through, you know, what the goals are for your site and then what that looks like on a schedule.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think that's uh most developments' uh biggest concern is here's the schedule I want, is that possible?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it can vary year to year based on the number of reviewers an agency has, how busy they are.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: If we just had a hurricane, they're you know backlog with emergency permits they're having to issue.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So just having a good understanding of the the schedule, is it realistic?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, being honest and upfront with with that side of things, I think is a big help.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: When I am looking at properties for developers, basically they just want to cost.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I'm trying to figure out.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh realistically, just from a desktop review, how many how much wetlands, like how much acreage is how we look at it of like wetlands on the site.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Does it have really good quality wetlands?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, what kind of list of species in the area are you going to have to look into that would be cost prohibitive?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the bonneted bat, a Florida bonneted bat.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's prevalent in South Florida.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it, you know, depending on this type of project, we deploy uh detectors and do acoustic surveys.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, do you either of you have a favorite project or one that stands out the most from your career so far that you could talk about?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go ahead, Danielle.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So as an arborist, I was pulled on to this project over in Flagular County, and I'm helping design um a regional park, which is really, really cool.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the boardwalks, you know, delineating the extent of where those wetlands are, and it's not from like a land clearing perspective, which is what we're typically used to, but uh featuring the different unique uh ecosystems within that area, and it's got coastal elements uh involved with it, and you know we are in the design phase of it, um, but it will be hopefully uh yeah, all depending on budgets and funding, going to the permitting phase.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been amazing.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um beautiful, beautiful natural uh hammocks.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's definitely my favorite project.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah, do you have one?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one that we're working on currently.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it combines uh an existing wildlife crossing over 75 and looking at how um when the interstate expands, how that uh overpass um could also benefit wildlife along with trail users.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of getting to look at different designs um that would benefit the wildlife, the equestrian users, and just regular trail users.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I really like the interaction um and through the intersection of people and wildlife and how they can both benefit.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been really fun to try and design and look at it and um include it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It we included doing a wildlife camera, so knowing what species are out there.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's really fun to see what's on the the pictures um after dark and stuff.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that combines, you know, my love of wildlife, but with also but also with having access um to the public to those cool spaces too.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: So is that if I'm hearing you right, is that the those bridges that you see that have like the I mean, there's like foliage and stuff on them, and like animals will cross over top of the interstate.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so you get to look at it from a landscape view, um, from a wildlife perspective, and then also from the trail user's perspective and how they can all work together.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen those before.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I never knew what went into putting those into place.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's uh that's pretty neat that you get to work on one of those projects.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, before we get into the last segment, which is the lightning round, uh, I do because we're we're recording this in partnership with Ladies and Land, I want to at least get your thoughts on your experience so far in Ladies and Land and what drew you to the organization.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I don't know, Danielle, if you want to start.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: They recently opened a chapter here in Tampa, um, but it was really fun to so we held a field trip.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we planned it, uh, took you know whoever signed up into the field, walked around, you know, showed them how we delineate wetlands, what we look for.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: They were very surprised that some plant species you can rip a leaf off and smell it, and that's how you know what it is.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very exciting.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoy interacting with people that were from different phases of land acquisition.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot, and it was really honestly, it was just really fun to meet everybody from all those like different backgrounds.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really um enjoyed meeting all the different people that there a lot of them were outside of the group of people that I have been working with for um a couple decades, so that was good to get uh different perspectives, different um backgrounds of people, and then just like Danielle, it's just fun sharing what you do with other people so they can get a better idea of of how it interacts with their job as well.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I lied.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna go to Lightning Round yet because uh I have I have one other thing I want to uh get your thoughts on because I completely skipped over it in my questions I had here.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to talk a little bit about wetlands.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, you have you have a different perspective, I think, being in Florida, where I feel like the wetlands there are insane compared to other parts of the country.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Are there certain things about wetlands you think that developers should know?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are there things that maybe developers don't always think about when they're uh looking at wetlands and what that might mean for their project?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just because there's no standing water doesn't mean it's not a wetland.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I I hear there was no water out there.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, it's more than just you know your hydrology.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's several factors that you know play into uh what a wetland is.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I would definitely look at a property not in the dry season um that you know you can run into some there'll be maybe some pocket like isolated wetlands that are in a pasture that you can't really see in the winter, um, but it comes summertime and that you get a reviewer out there, and then all of a sudden, you know, your impact acreage is what we calculate grows.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I would definitely say that take that into consideration when it comes to wetlands.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I just add to that that um, you know, it there's the federal side of wetlands, and then in Florida, there's the state side, and um they don't always match up either.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you could have one line for a federal wetland and a different line for the state wetland, and you have to sort of mitigate for both, and that can be expensive or um time consuming if you do monitoring events.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so just understanding like what that looks like on your project and how the state is more involved, probably in Florida than most other states as far as wetlands are concerned.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, if you fill in a wetland that has ramifications for your site um plan, you're gonna need stormwater um areas so that you don't flood your neighbors or your own parking lot.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I get that I was gonna ask that question was about if you, you know, if it was a situation where you're able to build in a spot where may, you know, you have to account for the fact that it is a wetland in that spot and you were gonna put something there, how do you account for it?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like stormwater management is something that's very important when you're going into a project like that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now let's go ahead and shift into the last segment.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: So lightning round, I've got five questions and we'll have uh each of you go and we'll maybe we'll do like a if you play fantasy football or anything like that and you do like a snake draft where you go every other one.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that way Daniel doesn't have to go first every time.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go Daniel, you go first on the first one, and then Sarah will go first on the next one.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: All right, first one.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Would you rather spend the day on site or on a site visit or in the office?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, site visit.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Site visit, yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: All right, that's an easy one for both of you there.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah, for you on this one.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: What's one thing every developer should know before buying a piece of land?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Their favorite environmental consultant.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Danielle?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be expensive, but there's definitely ways to work with a property to achieve your goals and make it as cost efficient as possible.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: All right, third one.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: This one's for you, Danielle, to start with here.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: What's the biggest environmental myth you hear from developers?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's an importance to like what we do.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not just us trying to like protect the world, protect the environment.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're trying to do things in an ethical way that also gets to an end goal.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say something along the lines of, oh, that's not a wetland or it meets an exemption.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: All right, number four for you, Sarah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: What's the best piece of a career advice you've ever received?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this one's from my dad.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I tell everybody this.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whenever you get a raise, put put some of that into your 401k.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's all careers across the board.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he's he's not wrong.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: It has served me well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Danielle.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Best piece of advice this was more shown than said, um, was mentorship.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had some very good mentors, and it has pushed me to be a mentor myself.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I saw the importance of that in my growth, and so that's what I want to pass on.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: All right, last one.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Danielle, you go first on this one.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you weren't an environmental scientist, what do you think you'd be doing?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be a bum in the keys.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably be doing I would probably be in research.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is another passion of mine.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love school.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been a nerd in that respect.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I would go into research or maybe own a plant nursery.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I would be an animal trainer.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of what I managed to do in high school.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Train animals for like the movies and stuff.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, very cool.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: That brings us to an end here.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what's the best way for people listening in to connect with you and also to learn more about Kimli Horn?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Danielle, maybe you want to go first?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kimley Horn's a it's a big company.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh national now international.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can just look up the Tampa office, and if you just reach out to the Tampa office, they they know who we are.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that's probably the easiest way uh to get a hold of us.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can also go to the website, kimlihorn.com, and learn more about the company, where we have offices.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Danielle and I are both on LinkedIn as well, and we always love to hear from people and love to meet new people connect.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks to both of you for taking the time to join me on the show and sharing your expertise in the environmental field with all of our listeners and everything.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, for those of you who are listening in right now, if you look down in the description for this episode, you'll see a link there to the show notes page.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: On the show notes page will be the link to the Kimley Horn website and also a link to their uh LinkedIn pages so you can connect with them over there.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um with that said, let's go ahead and wrap up.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not already subscribed, please click that button.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to have you back for the next one.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, we will talk to you all next week.