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CultXCosmic: Blood Ties Pt 1 · Cosmic Peach

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, be the.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Trigger.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Warn This podcast may include explicit content that will take
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: you out of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Listeners, discretion is advised.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Brain and new mini series Blood Ties, And as I
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: kind of gave like a hint about in the recap show,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: this series is going to be more about serial killers
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and Charles Manson and some of the bigger serial killers
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: that I didn't mention in the previous series, the Ted Bundy,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer, Zodiac. We're going to be taking a little
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: bit closer look at them. So, as we always do,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: we're gonna start out with a quote. And before we
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: do that, I have a co host on this series.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: It is Colby from Conspiracy Playtime. We're going to be
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: working on this together. I'm really excited about it. Kolbe,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: how are you super?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for asking me?
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Are you?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I'm good and yeah, I'm just really excited to get
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: into this one. It's something that Colby and I had
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: talked about before. We both read Program to Kill and
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: we talk about it all the time, but it's better
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to dig into it a little bit for the series,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: just because I think it's something that is obvious but
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: not a lot of people talk about. And there is
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of documentaries and a lot of movies that
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: convince people it's one way, but it's actually not that
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: way at all. Like the Zodiac movie with Robert Downey,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: which is really good. I like it, Yeah, I mean
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: with the supers, But don't you feel like they were
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: making it to like it had to be that one
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: fat guy?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Well, right off the bat of forgetting that, I think
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: that David Fincher's pretty well known to take movies that
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: are semi true and give the mainstream version of them,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: like Social.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Network, Because in that movie, like I said, I like it,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good movie. But I think if
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you didn't know anything about Zodiac and then you watched that,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you would think like, oh, well that's probably Yeah.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, Zodiac, out of all the ones we're going
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: to be talking about that you just listed, is the
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: one I probably know the least about. But I always
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: kind of had my own opinion on what that whole
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: thing was. Yeah, I think that movie's definitely trying to
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: rap a nice little bow on it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, do you think that it was one guy?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: No?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's good. Then we can at least agree
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: on that before we really get into it. But so
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna read us a quote and it's Otis Tool
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and Henry Lee Lucas, and it was a conversation they
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: were having. I got this from Henry Lee Lucas's book,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and right before we started recording, I watched the the
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: trailer for The Confession Killer on Netflix, and again I
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: feel like they do a great job like not telling
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the truth about shit.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Look at Henry.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: He's pleasant, he's non threatening, and actually a killing machine.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: A killing machine. None of the film Serial Murderers approaches
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the record of Henry Lee Lucas.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Henry Lee Lucas has killed one hundred women at least
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty people.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Lucas was a drifter who murdered at random during an
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: eight year spree. Either they found the world's worst serial
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: killer or that was the biggest hoasts in American criminal
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: justice history. I would give him a pencil. He would
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: sit there and drop pictures and describe what they were wearing,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: how they were killers, shootings, strangulations, knife ands.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I've killed them in every way. There is no Lucas
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: was confessing to the unsolved murder.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: But before him, I started getting calls from law enforcement
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: all over, people say why, why are you doing it?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It was making him feel as though he was contributing.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: They didn't treat him as a killer, but as a friend.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, you got to handcuff. Henry never lived so good.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Every day, Roddy move, strawberry milkshake. It was like he
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: was a movie star.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: From that point, it went to hell in a hand
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: basket quick.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: What I'd been believing for all these years was Henry
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: did it. There is not one shred of evidence to
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: show that Lucas killed my mother.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: The police work was less than competent. There's a lot
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: of emotions with that.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: One hundred and ninety seven cases were closed that should
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: still be open.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: We were up against very powerful people.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If someone has something to hip, nobody
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: else gonna solve and macept me. He was playing them
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: like a Voley and.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: The lied, lied, lied. If Lucas didn't kill all those people.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Who did, it was a piece of shit documentary that
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: was like half accurate, well.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: If I remember correctly, because I watched about half of
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: it before I got sick of it. They kind of
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: do talk about the fact that Henry Le Lucas took
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: credit for.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: A lot of shit he didn't do right, But they
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: made it to where like he was just a fucking retard, right,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: and that's why he did it. Like they could just
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, we'll get you chicken nugget meal if
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you confess to this one.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I was kind of surprised that they even went
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that far admitting that he wasn't the prolific serial killer
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: that we all thought he was.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I say it all the time. The
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Netflix documentaries are like the worst things to watch if
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you're trying to learn some shit about this stuff. But
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the quote is otis tool. He said, I've been meaning
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to ask you that time when I cooked some of
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: these people, why'd I do that? Henry Lee Lucas. I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: think it was just the hands doing it. I know
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of things we've done in human sight are
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: impossible to believe. Otis tool. When we took him out
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: and cut him up. Remember one time I said, I
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: wanted me some ribs? Does that make me a cannibal? Lucas,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: You wasn't a cannibal. It's the force of the devil.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Something forced on us that we can't change. There's no
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: reason denying what we become. We know what we are.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You told me this was from his book,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Henry Lucas's book, which I didn't even know existed. And
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I do think that while there might be some truth
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: to this, he also was probably playing into the legend
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: built around.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Him, like he was okay with people thinking he was
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: a prolific monster because it made him someone.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Well, he definitely seemed to bask in the limelight.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, for a milkshake and cigarettes.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: But he wasn't afraid of looking like, yeah, the devil
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: to mainstream societies.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: What do you think about otis tool? Though he liked
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: ribs and he was a cannibal.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And well, I know the Otis tool. Like if you
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: read Program to Kill, he wasn't just a country bump
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: fuck kind of guy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And his parents and his mom dressed him like a girl.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, the whole nine, the yeah formula.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So they obviously came up a lot in my Program
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to Kill series. But I'm honestly, I feel like I'm
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: beating a dead horse sometimes when I talk about the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: two of them, they're a prime example of what we're
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: talking about. But I do think there is a ritualistic
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: component to some of the stuff that they get up to.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Like they're saying like it's the force of the devil.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think, I mean, what do you think about that?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Because I think that there's an element of truth to that.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: If the devil's the CIA.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Do you think that they were like programmed and that's it,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: there was no ritualistic aspect to it.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's ritual aspects to the programming.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I guess that opens us up
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to start talking about Charles Manson then, since you brought
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: up the CIA, because I have some notes here and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: we're going to just go through them and talk about
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: them together. But March twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Spring Equinox, Charles Manson was released from prison and given
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: transport to San Francisco, where, despite having served virtually his
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: entire adult life in prison, he immediately started gathering devoted followers,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: many recruited from the various Satanic groups blossoming in that area.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So again, I feel like there is a ritualistic aspect
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: to this as well. As you know, I always say,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you can't separate government from ritualism because they're synonymous. There's
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: usually a little bit of both with this kind of stuff.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because our government was formed by old school
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: secret societies, and if they're you know, carrying into semi
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: modern day the sixties, what they were into from the beginning,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: of course, there would be a lot of that.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Well, the reason that I put this in my notes
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: is because despite having served most of his adult life
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: in prison.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And most of his you know, like past the age
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: of twelve, this is incarcerated.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So a lot of these programs they look for people
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: where they go to mental institutions and they go to
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: fucking prisons or or fucking Manson. Fucking was that Boystown
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: at one point.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's obvious that Manson had some hooks
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: in him from the beginning, where he got the attention of,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: you know, the people that would grab a hold of
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: him and turn him into what he was. It's debatable.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of good stuff and a
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: lot of research and different books, but if this guy
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: from the age of twelve was in and out of
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the system, it could have started.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: As he was primed. Yeah, it was prime They.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Noticed that this guy was smart and charismatic and had
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: a flare.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: For the celebrity, and so spring of the following year,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Manson loaded his new followers into a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: bus and took them on the road, settling into the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles area, where Charlie somehow established numerous prominent contacts
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: in the entertainment industry, which a lot of people know
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: about because we even on the recap show, Dennis Wilson
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: was brought up. But he was best siesed with all
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: of them. They make it out like he wasn't he
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't like popular, and he was. Actually he was like
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: one of them.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Well, there was a lot of people I see reading
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: ahead that Neil Young. Neil Young really thought that Charlie
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: had something. Yeah, and he admits it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I should. I should probably just read his quote then,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: because he told an interviewer that quote. A lot of
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: pretty well known musicians around LA knew him, though they'd
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: probably deny it now end quote.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I at some point I was researching Frank Zappa
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and it man, if I remember right, it seemed like
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Frank was one of the ones who got a bad
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: vibe from him, didn't want him around. But there was others,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: like you mentioned Dennis Wilson who held parties and also
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: let Charlie and some of his girls stay there for
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: like weeks weeks.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Like almost like move in with him.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Kind of, Yeah, they did take over, but at one
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: point Dennis physically removed them from his house. He got
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: sick of it. But at what point?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And like he was like footing the bill for like
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: all of their fucking escapades and shit too, because they
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: were like just they would just wander around the canyon
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: kind of. You know.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Something I wanted to say when you were talking about
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Manson loading up his followers into a bus. This is
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: a formula you see again with Ken Kesey and the
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Mary Pranksters, where you have a likely CIA connected guy
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: loading up some freaks and then going on whatever mission
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: was assigned to them.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Mm hm. And Neil Young, by the way, knew Charlie
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and his girls really well and actually tried to get
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the head of Warner Brothers to sign the aspiring singer songwriter.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't he. I highlighted his name in my
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: notes because you know better than I do. But wasn't
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Neil Young one of the vaccine pusher. Fucking yeah he got.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't do a beef with Spotify over them platforming
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan and then removed like the forty nine percent
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: of his catalog that he owns. But he since came
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: crawling back. But yeah, he was definitely.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Because people were just gonna leave Spotify over that. Well,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, because he's just like the end all be all.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Neil Young has always thought pretty highly of himself, and
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: he probably did think he had more sway than he
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: actually did, and he found out the hard way.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: But he was one of those vaccine pusher, like you
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: get the turn, Yeah, basically so. And he was eating Charlie's.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Ass apparently probably tasted like chicken.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Cat chicken, all right, So just so happens this same year,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: on December twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, year the Winter Solstice,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the first of the Zodiac murders rocked the San Francisco area.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: A man was shot once in the head at point
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: blank range with a twenty two and his female companion
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: was shot multiple times with the same weapon, and a
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: detective working the case noted that the male victim had
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: recently learned of a major drug deal that was about
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to go down, and he had been talking openly about
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: who was involved in the transaction. So I said in
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the recap episode, because Jonathan actually asked me, why do
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: they program serial killers? What do they get from it?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: And it's he said, like it's to sensationalized into like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: terrify people. And I said that maybe a component of it,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: but really what it seems like to me is a
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: lot of these random killings are mixed in with like
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: assassination type killings where they're taking out specific people because
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: of something they know or something they're trying to hide
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: or and then like nobody ever really knows.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you're both right, and what better way
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to like utilize somebody to the full capacity, like if
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you can sensationalize violence. And it's been said by many
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: of us in the community that the modern day serial
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: killer is the school shooter or just a mass shooter
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: in general, because you can take these people, have them
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: take out specific targets in certain instances, like one of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the people that got killed in Buffalo, New York, that
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: shooting that they tried to make a race thing. I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: don't know if you remember that. That was like twenty
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: twenty two, maybe like the very end of the year
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and one of the serial excuse me, one of the guards,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: the security guards at the store, was the first to
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: get taken out, if you belief that thing was even real.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: But he was somebody who had been working on a
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: hydrogen powered engine or something like that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Shut up.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Just so weird that he happened to be a victim
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: in this random mass shooting.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, oh my god, serial.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Killers in the sixties and seventies, definitely, I think Jonathan's
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: onto something there with like the sensationalized like mass terror
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: and with you know what we think of today with
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: mass shootings.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're also taking out target of course. And
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I so, do you think that there's any correlation between
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: all this Manson stuff happening and then December of that
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: same year the first Zodiac murder?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Leg So, could they be linked in some way because
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: it was.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Like some of Manson's victims were actually.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess it wasn't the same year. Oh no,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: it was, because it was spring of nineteen sixty eight.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Manson loaded his followers into bus and took him on
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the road. And then December of that same year, the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: first Zodiac murder was in the San Francisco area. And
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: while this one may be more of like a intentional
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: killing because this guy knew something about a drug deal
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: or something like that, I think like the Tate murder,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in the Labyanca murder and the Zodiac murders have a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: lot of similarities in the time and the general vicinity
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of where they took place in California.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Well, not to mention that Manson frequented the Free Sex
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Clinic in Hayde Ashbury, where he may have very well
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: repped shoulders with Jolly West, who's like the forest Gump
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: of the CIA.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is if you get into to like
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: some of the research that Tom O'Neill did for his
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: book Chaos, which say what you want about that book,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are starting to call it out
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: for certain elements of like keeping the lid on certain things.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: And this is news to me, and it kind of
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: sucks because I thought that was one of the best
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Manson books ever written. But anyway, he all but links
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Manson and Jolly West with the Free Sex Clinic. So
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Manson was going up and down the entire coast.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying like la.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So in that time for him, he definitely would have
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: possibly been.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And we really don't know who the Zodiac is, Like
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's multiple assailants, but who used to say
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: he wasn't one of them.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I don't even know if there
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: was a Zodiac. It was just a convenient way to like,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: like what Jonathan was talking about, scare the shit out
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: of people. But also, yeah, they were.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: With this guy with like the paper bag over his
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: head in the fucking Apron and like, but I will
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: actually get into that.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Like the letters and shit that were sent to the newspapers,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: which is covered extensively in the Fincher movie Zodiac.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: But doesn't that make for a good movie though? The
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: way that it went down.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It was the Yeah, so it was a movie. It
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: was people turning into nightly news to see the next
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: cipher or to try to figure out the cipher of
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the next or of the most recent letter that the zodiaccent.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Like people got obsessed with it.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: It was like instead of fucking Sunday Morning Cross where
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: it puzzles over coffee, it was like, let's see if
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: we can I mean, and in the movie, it's like
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: a person who is.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: A big fat fot that worked out a fucking mechanic place.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Well, no, no, I'm saying there was someone who called in
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: after watching the news and thought that he had broken
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the code.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, a lot of people thought that they broke the code.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: They were like obsessing over it, actually.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And I mean that could be a whole part of it.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: You get the population the TV watchers fixated on.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: This shit and trying to decipher codes and shit. Yeah,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: but I'm I do have in my notes. It would
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: later be speculated that the Zodiac killings actually began in
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the Los Angeles area on the eve of Halloween nineteen
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: sixty six, just a few months after the rampages of
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Richard Speck, which I spoke about in the last episode
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of program Ticket No. Part five. That's the one that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: was out of order that people were having a hard
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: time finding. I talked about Richard spec and Charles Whitman.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And so the reason why they speculate that it actually
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: started earlier in nineteen sixty six was because of this
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: victim named Sherry Joe Bates, and a lot of investigators
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: think that she was the first murder victim of the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer but they liked to sweep this one under
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the rug for some reason. But she had been stabbed
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: in the chest and her throat had been slit so
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: deeply that she was nearly decapitated, and a wristwatch of
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: military origin had been found at the crime scene, along
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: with a military style heel print, and with a lot
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of the Zodiac crime scenes, they noticed a military style
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: bootprint and they described him as being clean cut, with
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: like a crew cut. And so this is why they
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: put put it on one man, and they put it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: on someone that may have been in the military.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Your thoughts on that, well, if you take a look
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: at win serial killers started allegedly popping up, it was
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: after a lot of men had come home from the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Vietnam War had been enlisted in you know, missions such
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: as the Phoenix program where they would teach these and
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, you could probably put Dahmer
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: in this in a later era. But when they psychologically
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: test you to find out where they're going to put
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you and whatnot, there's a lot of military programs who
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: want the crazy fox and the Phoenix program would be
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a great example of this. And this ties into some
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of your earlier work with the Franklin scandal where you
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: had the camp and William Colby of the CIA fucking
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: coming in and giving us the narrative on the Franklin Scandal.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: These guys were, you know, basically running the Phoenix program.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure so sure about the Camp, but
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: definitely William Colby.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But they were besties. Yeah, and he ran the fucking
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Franklin fucking cover up exactly.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people came home from the war
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: having just been set loose to you know, go savage
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: on the villages to send a message to the viet Cong,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and they were doing unspeakable acts and they were you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: put there by the United States military, and so a
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: lot of these guys they had the on switch flipped
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and then they come home and you think they're going
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: to be able to switch that shit off. Most of
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: these people just needed a little shove into the right
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: direction or wrong direction to become just mass killers. And
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: so I think a lot of these serial murders were
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: just I mean, I don't know it, just.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: One of those crazy fucks that came home from the
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Phoenix program and they did a little bit extra shit
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if it was like used. I
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: think they were used for the purpose in the war,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: but then when they came home, they couldn't stop. And
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: so I think a lot of these Zodiac killings could
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: have just been randomlydom people and they're trying to keep
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: a lid on like what stofoo? That's one I mean,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that's one theory.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Sure no. Yeah, So with that first victim, Scherry Joe Bates,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the one that was nearly decapitated, the circumstances of her
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: murder suggested that she knew her killer and had spent
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a portion of the evening with him before the attack.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And just like the Zodiac murders, what was said to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: be a confession was received in the mail following her
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: fucking murder. But no one connects Shrry Joe Bates to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the rest of the Zodiac murders. Why not. Do you
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: remember that one in the movie where he supposedly calls
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: from a payphone and he says.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: He did it.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: It was something similar with this one, But they don't
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: link Sharry Joe Bates with the rest of the Zodiac murders.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And they also said they said that Cherry obviously must
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: have known her killer and Darlene the quote unquote first one.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: First Zodiac murder victim also knew her killer. So it's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: like you said, is it people that they know it?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Just like fucking random fucking crazy ass dudes or or chicks,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: or is it someone else?
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Dear editor, this is the murderer of the two teenagers
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: last Christmas at Lake Herman and the girl on the
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: fourth of July.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I want you to print this cipher on the front
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: page of your paper.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: He wants his code in the afternoon edition, May Smith.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Does you have like got two to finish?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: The Zodiac killer has come to San Francisco.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Another letter, school children make nice targets.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: He gave himself a name, Greek horse code, astrological signs.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: This guy's used them all.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I like killing people because man is the most dangerous
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: animal of all.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Just one do that.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I like puzzles.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I do them a morning. Got any hard suspects? About
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: ninety and l or come up to around five hundred.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: You've got four crime scenes, not a single usable print.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: You can't think of this case in normal police terms.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: He's breaking the pattern.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Then I said you were a cartoonist.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what are you doing at a gun range.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I just want to help. What are you some kind
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: of boy scout? Eagle scout, actually first class. I've been thinking.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It was her evidence, Robert.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's no evidence. You have him seen with
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: the ciphers, the military boot prints, the bloody not circumstantial.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Why do you need to do this because nobody else
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: will day you made a mistake.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Get it from the window, Paul, Are you okay?
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: No?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: What'd you do it?
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Put your face out there for him to see? Hello?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Who is this?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Zodiac? Was my job? It's not yours. He's still out there.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Dave.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Killing is his compulsion.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: It drives him, It's in his blood.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: She's what squirrels the Zodiac speaking.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I've begun.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I can give you a left of the service station
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: tours go around helping people in the night.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not the Zodiac, and if I was, I certainly
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't tell you.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Are you sure there's nobody else in the house.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Everywhere? So the beginning of the Zodiac movie starts with
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: this Darling Farren and Michael Magoo How did I say it?
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Mijeau and they get in the car. It's an epic
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: scene because she's way older than him. It almost looks
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: like she's like maybe thirty and he's like fifteen, and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: she picks him up, and they're supposed to be going
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to this lover's lane and then the lights they see
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: lights behind them in the car and the guy gets out.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: He shoots Mijau like eight times and then shoots Darlene
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: and stabs her. I think, no, just shoots her, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: fucking you're for sure that both of them are dead
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: because like he gets back in his car in the movie,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I think this is probably how it happened in real
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: life too, based on Majoe's testimony. But he got back
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: in his car, saw Migjeau moving around, came back, shot
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: him some more, and shot Darlene some more, and he
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: miraculously survived all of that. Darlene's dead as fuck. But
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: where it gets interesting is that Darlene had told her
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: friends that she had witnessed a murder by a man
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: who had subsequently been following her. She wasn't specific on
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: who the man was, but right before the Zodiac murdership
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: broke a loose, she said she saw a murder, and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: in the weeks before her death, Darlene had been receiving
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: mysterious packages from a man living in Mexico who Darlene had,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: for unexplained reasons married in nineteen sixty six using a
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: fake name and then later divorced, and Michael Mageaux that
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: night when she came to pick him up, he left
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: his house in such a hurry that the lights and
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the TV were left on and the front door was
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: left on open. So in my mind, again, I think
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: this is unrelated to the Zodiac Killer because this is
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: oddly specific and it's something that nobody talks about with Darlene.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: It definitely wasn't in the Finer movie.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: No surprise there, So you're saying it was a jolted
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: X lover.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Well, she said she witnessed a murder by a man,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: but wouldn't say who the man was, and then she
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: starts receiving packages from her ex husband from Mexico. So
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to think, like, maybe this murder she witnessed,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: like her ex husband murdered someone and she.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Told her friend it was someone that had been.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Following her, and then yeah, he had been following her.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: And what's also interesting is that they make it like
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Darlene was romantically interested in Michael Migeaux, but like I
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: said he was He was like a teenager and she
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: was like in her thirties.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe, but I.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Mean, wouldn't it make more sense though? Maybe she was
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: in like distress or something and like instead of a
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: lover's lane situation, like he left his lights on his
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: TV on his front door wide open. I mean, was
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: that normal in the sixties though, to just leave with
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: all your fucking door open and everything, or like.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Well, potentially whoever the killer was could have known that
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: those two were together went to the dude's.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: House, Michael Majoe's house.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Looking for Michael Magoo and Darlene and then left the
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: door open. I mean, who knows well.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Majoe later told investigators that he and Darlene were followed
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: immediately upon leaving Darlene's house, but he changed his story
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: several times. But Joe went into hiding and shortly after
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the shootings, police received a call from a man claiming
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: credit for Darlene's murder, and the call was placed from
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a payphone just outside the sheriff's station. That was in
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: the movie where he calls and it's like raining and
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: he gets on the payphone and he's like, it's me.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I'm the he doesn't say Zodiac. Then he just says
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I killed two people off of rout nine. Do you
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: remember that?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Vaguely? It's been a while since I've seen.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: The movie, but we should watch it tonight.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Is that your pick?
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to use my one pick on that though.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: That should just be a dual pick that we decide
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: on together.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: You can't tell me what I pick on our duel pic.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: How do picks work?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: How do duel picks work?
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Then we had to pick it together. Yeah, and you
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: just volunteered my movie.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I volunteered it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were. If we were gonna watch it, we
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: should have watched it before recording this.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: But you remember enough about it though, right? It was
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a long motherfucker too.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I owned the movie and I love it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I love it too. I think it's really good. But
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you know, they they kind of mentioned in the movie
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that my Joe kept changing his story. But why would
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: he have a reason to change his story unless he
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: was hiding something, the truth about something.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Well, he clearly was in fear for his life, whether.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It was Darlene's crazy ex or.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: The Zodiac Killer. However you want to look at it,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: there would be a lot of reasons to walk back
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: certain things in your testimony.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Well, if we're going with or you're full of shit,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: he got shot like twelve times, right, But I'm saying, like,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: if we're going with multiple assailants for the Zodiac and
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: not just one guy, I think this was an another
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: one that just got grouped in there, like Sherry Joe,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Like they don't say the Zodiac killed her, but like
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: that was just a random one that they let slide.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: So I think this Darlene fair and One could just
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: be a random shooting because he kept changing his moo.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: But we'll get into that too. At the end of July,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the first of what proved to be a long series
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of letters arrived at area newspaper offices, with a request
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: that the letter be published on August first, the occult
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: holiday known as Lamas your thoughts, because like I said,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: there's always a little bit of ritualism when they try
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to pull off these huge fucking psyops.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Well, who's sending the letter? If we don't know, then
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that's the main thing. Like if there if some of
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: our speculation is accurate and there isn't just one one
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: killer known as the Zodiac, then yeah, this could have
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: been a syop. And like we said previously, the people
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that do the syops definitely have occult rituals guiding them.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, so they love to put that shit in there.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Or if it was just one guy doing all this, yeah,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: he could have been a cult ritualist as well.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: The series of letters were laced with codes that suggested
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that the writer had a background in naval intelligence, bringing
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the Office of Naval Intelligence onto the case. Other agencies
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: that investigated the Zodiac killings included the FBI, the US
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Postal Service, the California Department of Justice, and four local
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: police agencies.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: You know you've done fucked up when you get investigated
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: by the US Postals. Don't fire around.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: They carry guns, you know.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they'll shoot your The co host on my show, Jeremiah,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: he's talked extensively about.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The Postal Service. They'll shoot, they will decapitate.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: There was one That's why they call it going postal?
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Was it that like a post office person that like, wait,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: crazy just shot a bunch of people though, Yeah.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: And one bad apple made a whole fucking h what
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: do you call it?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Hmm? Cliche or yeah, catchphrase? But so on August fourth,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, The killer supplied his moniker in a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: letter that began this is the Zodiac speaking. Just days later,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: on the nights of August eighth and ninth, the Manson
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: family committed two of the most notorious multiple murders in
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: the nation's history, the Tate Lobyanca slings. The Manson killings
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: were part of a weekend orgy of violence in Los
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Angeles that saw the city record twenty nine known homicides
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: in just four days.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: That's like a normal weekend in fucking Chicago.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Spin serious, But you see, like it's odd that they're
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: running kind of parallel, the Zodiac killings and the Manson killings,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and they started in the same year, they're around the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: same area. They all could be random, as I was
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: saying before, like the one chicks X and the other
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: chick whatever, But it just seems in August eighth and
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: August ninth, and Zodiac wants his letter out August first,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: so concerning the Tate Labyanka slings. The search for the
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: perpetrators of the h Profile murders involved the FBI, the Massade,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: the California Beverage Control Board, the US Treasury Department, the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: La County District Attorney's Office, the lap D, the LA
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office, and Colonel Paul Tait, a US Army Intelligence asset,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Vietnam veteran and the father of victim Sharon Tate. And
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I know Colby that you have a lot to say
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: on this, so I'm just gonna let you go.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I've obsessed over the Charles Manson killings for years,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: and just my overall scoping opinion on a lot of
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: this stuff is pretty recent. And I will preface this
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: by saying that I'm not human vibrations where I think
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: every single thing that you ever hear about on the
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: news is fake and staged. But I do think there's
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: a lot to that when it comes to certain things.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Within the last couple of years, I've been convinced that
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: the West Memphis three killings were entirely staged. And when
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I first heard it, it kind of, you know, you
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have a visceral reaction to.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: That, and I thought about it.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: After about two minutes of talking to the guy that
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I was interviewing who laid that theory out for me,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: it all just kind of made a lot of sense,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: especially with some of the stuff he said and then
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I kind of took that line of thought as well
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: as the Laurel Canyon formula, where you have an intelligence
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: assets from the United States military involved and it's a parent.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: It's a lot like I'm not saying, a parent, like
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: apparently like a parent like her father. Sharon Tate's father
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: was a current Well he's a USA.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Oh he's a Vietnam vet.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: And an intelligence asset. So a lot of the stuff
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: that happened that night, it just seems like a spectacle
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: like thrown out there for us.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think Sharon Tate is dead?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think either way. Of course she existed, but
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: either way, she was either set up to be murdered
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: in that ritualistic fashion. I mean, anybody who's looked into
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: the Manson killings at all knows that that house in
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: particular was targeted. But Manson himself knew that Terry Melcher
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: didn't live there anymore, but he still said to do it.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: And whether Manson gave order or not, if they even
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: really happened, I think it could be a thing that
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was faked. And you know, you look at like stuff
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: like the Challenger.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Exploding, oh right, all.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Sorts of stuff where you see a lot of these
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: people are still alive and so.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: But do you think Sharantate is still alive?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: If I had to guess, I would say I wouldn't
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: be surprised either way. It to me does look like
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: a staged event.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: What was my argument when you told me that the
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: first time and I freaked out.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I think you were a little too married to your
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: research to look at it from a new angle. I
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: don't know exactly what your argument was, but it was.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Really it was lame.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: It was weird. No, it wasn't lame. I mean, this
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: is a lot for anybody to hear.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Who because I think, like the West Memphis three, I
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: fought you harder on than the Sharantate. I think I
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: gave in on the Sharon Tate before the West Memphis
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: three because I do think that those little boys are dead.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Well, if you watch the Paradise Lost trilogy on HBO,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: that to me is a blueprint of a staged event.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Come to fruition to like, jam it down our throats.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Here's what happened. The Satanic Panic was a thing that
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: was sensationalized, and then the reaction to the Satanic Panic,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and then you have all these celebrities cozying up with
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: fucking god, what's his name, Damien.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Eccles, and he they are close with him.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I mean there was like Eddie Vedder doing songs with
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: him while he was still in prison, and Johnny Depp
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: getting matching tattoos. Yeah, and I've heard him go on
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Duncan Trussel's podcast and all these guys want to suck
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: his dick now, regardless of whether you think he was
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: innocent or not, he take it a step further. It's like,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: did this shit even happen? Because if you watched the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: first movie in that trilogy, Damian Eccles looks guilty as fuck,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: and the HBO producers are trying to show you that
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: they didn't do it, and then they have like the
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: retarded one who ended up spilling the beans, and then
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: they eventually took the Alfred plea where they said, yeah,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: we're pleading guilty even though tongue in cheek, we didn't
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: do it. Yeah, And I mean it's just one big spectacle,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: kind of like the Sharon Tate murders, where you had
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: this rising starlet married to one of the most occultic
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: fucking filmmakers aside from Kenneth Anger, and it's so weird
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: when you look at Rosemary's Baby and the parallels with
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I know, and I mean and if you want to
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: go even further into what was going on at that
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: house with a lot of fucking people who are practicing
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: witchcraft and what I mean, this was not random, whether
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: it was planned, whether it was staged. It was definitely
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: set out by something.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: So but you do think it's theatrical though, Like what.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: About whether it's they're dead or not, and whether the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: murders really happened. Yeah, you could take an event and
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: then sensationalize it to get the most out of it
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: that you can, or you could have just planned the
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: motherfucker from the beginning.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: So but what about the Lobbyanka murders?
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: See that one. I don't think that would have been
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: famous at all if Sharon Tate and the and the
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: crew there with like.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: So, if you do think the Lobyanka's happened and it
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: was part of this, well.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Like I said, the only reason we even know about
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: the Labyanca slains is because the murders that happened.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: So the Tates was to like usher in the terror
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: of the Lobyankas.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: No I just think that whether the Labyanka Slains were
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Mansoner or not, that Yeah, it's just like a footnote.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: It's like an asterisk on the on the Tate killings, because,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: like I said, if the Tate killing hadn't happened, we
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: would never hear.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you look at it for like
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of people want to put this on Manson
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: so bad because it like it's like once upon a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: time in Hollywood, Like it makes a great story and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: it's very it's like a very well written screenplay.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Well, and if you just take Charles Manson himself, you
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: have a guy who's been in and out of the system.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: He's associated with multiple gangs. Yeah, he's he's constantly being
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: released after being pulled over for and like with underage
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: girls and fucking bust full of drugs. This guy could
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: not stay out of the fucking like shit that was
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: going on, even though there's no way he should have
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: been where he was unless he was put there. And
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: so then you take it a step further and yeah,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: like did any of the shit that they tied to
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Manson have anything to do with Manson? Did it?
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Though? Because if you were to tell me that a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: someone like Sharon Tate was married to an occultist filmmaker
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: like Roman Polanski and then you watch Rosemary's Baby and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: then you see what happens to her. I'd be more
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: likely to think he had fucking something to do with
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: it than Manson.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Well, if you've ever read Chaos, it talks about a
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: fuck I think it was like a film reel that
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Roman Polansky had in his possession, and it was like
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: his fucking occultist buddies running a train on Sharon Tates.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. The best thing about Chaos is he
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: discredits Bugliosi and all his bullshit that he put into
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: his book Helter Skelter. This is this guy that prosecuted
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Manson and he wanted like rock star fame, and this
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: guy was a fucking hack. So the whole race war
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: theory and all of that stuff was bullshit from the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: get go. So to me, Manson probably had blood on
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: his hands in one way or another, But he also
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: was a trained asset who was running mk ultra programming
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: on the family. He was using methmphetamine LSD sleep deprivation
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: to brainwash these fuckers. Did they even know if they
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: were there that night? Were they themselves assets. I mean
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff. If you look into Tex Watson,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: like his whole fucking story is just.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: All over the place. It's all over there.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I just say, like, you can't throw the
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: baby out with the bathwater when it comes to these
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: kind of things, because the spider web can go in
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: so many directions on this. And so after all the
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: research I've done into the Manson killings, it's like to
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: even have like a concrete theory, it's just.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Kind of, you know, like you almost can't have one.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: You can if you want to, and there are people
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: that do, but man, the more I've read into it,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: the more or it just seems to me like there
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: is a lot to this that we'll never know.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like that was one of
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: our first arguments.
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: It was our first fighting except cure. We're fighting about
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: serial killers, Charles Manson, satanic slayings of kids in the woods,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: when most people are fighting about who's going to take
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: out the trash.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I was actually I was compelled by your argument, which
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: is why I know, like when you hear something and
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh damn, that makes a lot of sense.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: It just and it's just it's just one theory, Like
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I said, I know.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: But it makes a lot of sense.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: And then you know, a lot of theories do make
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense. Some of them don't make any sense,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and they could be the real ones. You don't fucking know.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Like you can't be married to any of this shit.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: You can do your best to stream together extensive research
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: and look into everything. Anybody prominent who's like lived like
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Tom O'Neill twenty years writing one fucking book, or just
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of podcasters.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, podcasters always have like we always have something
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: to say, whether or not people. I think people should
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: really do their own research into a lot of this
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: stuff before they just like, especially if they're Netflix documentary
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: HBO documentary watchers.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think a lot of your listeners and
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: especially listeners to these series that you're doing for the
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: boys at the Coult, then you will inevitably be compelled
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: to do your own research. If you've set through pediphocracy,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Uncle Sam wants your kids programmed to kill And if
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: you made it this far, I'm assuming you've also looked
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: into it on your own. And if you haven't, we
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: probably you probably should.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably should if they've made it this far.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Their troopers though we let you, yes, But actually I
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: have a fun fact for you. Roman Polanski actually brought
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: in to assist in his own investigation of the killings
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: this fucking famous psychic, fucking guy named Peter Herkos. And
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Peter Herkos had earlier made a high profile appearance alongside
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: of f Lee Bailey in the Boston strangler case.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: So I actually, is that how Polanski knew who he
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: was or really like Buds?
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm why I think it's interesting is
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: is this more theater shit? Because I think the Boston
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: stranglers are also fucking Cia, right, So if this Herkos
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: guy was involved in the Boston strangler case, and then
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Roman Polansky somehow knows him and gets him involved in
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: the Tait case, then I feel, like I said earlier,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: and like what you were alluding to, that this is
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a great piece of fiction.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Well, and not to mention that even in the instance
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: that Polanski wasn't involved in the theater behind it, he
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: had a lot of fucking reason to make people think
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: that he was very you know, just grief stricken and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: trying to solve this on his own. When in fact,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: he just lucked out that he wasn't there if this
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: shit really happened.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Or did he have something to do with it, because
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of people think he did well, his friends well.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: And also you brought up like a lot of these
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: are like set up hits with drug shit, and there
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: is a lot of evidence that there was stuff going
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: on at these parties that Tate's crew with like j. C.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Bring and a couple other people that were there, Mama
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Cass and oh yeah, and the Folgers Heiress. Like a
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: lot of these people were notorious junkies who were hanging
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: out with devil worshipers and they like had this weird crossing.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: And making movies and shit.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, and there was like drug debts, they were unpaid
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: and you know, then you have the FBI probably sitting
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: right outside this if it really did happen, I mean,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who have talked about that.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I think Sam's brought them up on his show. But so.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: This circle of people that he was hanging out with
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: also is just really it says a lot because at
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: the time of the Manson murders, this Peter her Coast
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: guy was involved in organizing a black Arts festival scheduled
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: for Halloween Day nineteen sixty nine, and the events other
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: organizers were Timothy Leary and Anton Levy, who were scheduled
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to host the festival before it was canceled.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: So two other assets, that's what.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: But they're they're all so and Polanski somehow knows this
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Peter Herkos guy who's a psychic medium who hosts black
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: arts festivals with Antson Levey and fucking he gets called
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: in to the Tate fucking like. This is why I
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: think it's such a theatrical like fucking like, but it's
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: all Manson, Like you know what I mean, It can't
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: just be Manson.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Or was it at all?
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Or was it at all?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I mean to me, Manson was used up and whether
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: he had anything to do with what happened that night,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, we can throw this guy under the bus now.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And he also during many prison interviews and letters with
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: people and he was incarcerated the final time, he mentioned
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: that like if you even knew as deep as this
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: goes and I and he would always allude to it,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: but at the end he'd say he would never rat
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: anybody out, but he.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Would say like like if you knew like I'm not
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: the monster, like he would say stuff like that.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: I mean he said a lot of stuff.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: He said a lot of cracked out shit, Like.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of his stuff was probably part
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: of the show. But after you're fucking rotten in a
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: cage for decades on end, you might start spitting a
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: little truth and trying to like give a little bit
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: of breadcrumbs to the people who really.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Want to look into it, Like weave in truths with
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: lies and shit.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that in the beginning the whole trial spectacle,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: it was like a script.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Manson family with their frick their fucking their
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: swastikas and ship.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, did he even know where he was
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: going at that point? Like he could have thought like, hey,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: maybe I play along with this play this staged performance,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: and then I get extracted at the end, and maybe
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: he did, and they put in a fucking body double
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: or some fucking like if you want to start getting
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: into like that, there's a lot lot of these people
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: like Diddy right now, his fucking mugshot is a different
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: guy one gne Maxwell. All we saw of her in
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: the courtroom was a fucking sketch, a sketch so they
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: could just like have let the real Charles go.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, they found a pretty decent lookalike
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: for once upon a time in Hollywood. It's not like
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: it's hard to fucking find a fucking white guy with
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: crazy face.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And you could get anybody like short and easily to
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: look like Charles.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's not like he's very distinguishable
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: in any way. But so the month after the Tatelabyanca
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: killings and just after the autumnal equinox, the Zodiac was
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: apparently back to work as a man and woman were
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: stabbed multiple times in a San Francisco area park. Is
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: this curious timing? And again I put that in my
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: notes because I feel like a lot of these murders
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: are running parallel in and around the same area. And
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is that there's usually a survivor with the
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Zodiac murders, which is interesting to me because in the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: UH first one that they pin on him with Michael Majo,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: he survived. And in this one with the UH San
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Francisco area park, he stabbed a man and a woman
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: and the man survived.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for such a fucking badass killer, he kind of
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: sucks at finishing the job.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you would. He's like the least badass of
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: all serial killers. Like he's leaving fucking people alive.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Remember in Mickey and Mallory knock saga from Nashalbaring Killers,
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: they always leave one person in line to tell the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: tell you.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Think that's what it is, though, I mean.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Because part of the mythology of it. At least you know.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: What's crazy that you just said that, because I put
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: it in my notes that despite the fact that it
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: took nearly an hour for the ambulance to respond to
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: a call, as this dude in this chick, we're fucking
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: bleeding to death, and the man fucking survives in what
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: has to be the only known case of a serial
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: killer showing up for work dressed in a logo bearing costume.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: This motherfucker with eighteen stab wounds somehow survives to tell
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: the tale, and he gives the only description that we
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: have of the Zodiac in his costume.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: It was a fat, tall white guy.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Well, he was wearing a fucking hood and a fucking
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: apron with the zodiac symbol on it.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: My ass.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: And and so if this is the same person why
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: did he shoot the first couple and then stabbed to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: death the second couple? He changes his mo and now
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: he's acquired a costume, and they did find a military
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: issue boot print that was connected to like the US
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: naval bases on the West coast, and he made another
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: call that was out, this was me. I did it
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: after that one.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you want to go out on
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: a limb here with some of this psychology stuff that
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: whether the intelligence agencies or whoever the fuck is putting
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: this shit all together, if they know that there's a
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: bunch of fucked up people in California, you start one
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: killing and you're going to get a bunch of fucked
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: up people from the Vietnam War. Maybe start doing copycat killings.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: And I've always wondered about with the Zodiac, I think
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: that was even a theory that one of the cops
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: in the movie floated out, was like, this isn't the
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: same guy. There's a lot of copycats. I don't know
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: if it's that movie, but I have seen a show
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: where that was theorized, and I think there could be
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: something to that, where you have a bunch of unhinged
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: maniacs who just have fucking lust for blood. And then
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: they see this is like a fucking role playing game.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: I can get on. I can even wear a costume.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Right, But don't you think it's odd though that the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: first couple was shot and then the second couple was
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: knifed and the dude always survives, and like, you've showed
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: up in a costume, I mean second time.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: It's a formula for sure, any but he changed up. No,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: but I'm saying, like just the whole thing with leaving
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: a survivor. Oh yeah, and like it's a couple.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part was the same. But then they threw
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: all those random like the one guy was a taxi
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: driver that got shot and then at some point he
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: said he was going to blow up a bus.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that one was always.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Weird, you know. It's like so it was actually on
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: October eleventh, nineteen sixty nine, one day shy of the
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: birthday of Alistair Crowley. The taxi driver was shot once
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: in the head, but he apparently changed the kind of
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: gun he used and at for San Francisco area crime scenes.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: The Zodiac quote unquote had used a different weapon at
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: each crime scene, which is something that they do in
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: the Uh, the training programs is they tell you to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: do a clean shot to the head. I wish you
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: would have listened to Program to Kill Part five. Well,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I know it's too bad it was released out of order, but.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Well, if you look at the the manuals for hits
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: when you're talking about these intelligence.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Agencies, opportunities or weapons of opportunity and a clean shot.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: To the head, and usually it's a twenty two or
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: because you get the bounce around. Yeah and so yeah,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of these guys would be military people. So
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: the fact that they might have had like a bunch
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: of weapons to choose from could be a thing.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: M h.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: So I'm not singing that that to me exactly makes
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: it seem like it's not the same person, just because
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: you know who was this guy? Was he ex military,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: he's got military boots. Yeah, he could have like a
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: fucking arsenal in his house.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: But you know who I had suggested was the Zodiac killer?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: If it was one guy? Right?
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, who Michael?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I did put a few notes in here,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and we'll see if I can convince you.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've always thought that that guy was capable of anything.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, so the taxi driver, the so called Zodiac Killer.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: He picked him up on Mason Street and then drove
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: him to an address in the Presidio Heights area of
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: the city where he shot him once in the head
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Cia style. And there were these kids and this is
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: also in the movie that witnessed the murder of the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: taxi driver and they called the police with a description
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: of the Zodiac Killer, but for unexplained reasons, the police
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: dispatcher broadcast a description of a black perpetrator. He was
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: black and had a huge afro, allowing the real shooter
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: to evade a massive police response. So not only is
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: he being protected by the police in this situation, he
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: gets this guy dropped off, or he takes this guy
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: to the Presidio Heights area and they're finding military fucking
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: bootprints set these crime scenes. And I'm just saying, does
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: that not sound like fucking Mike Lukino.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: I mean it could. It also makes me think of
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: that scene in The Cable Guy where Jim Carrey fucks
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: up somebody. I think it's Owen Wilson actually that the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: girls on a date with he fucks them up in
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: the bathroom, and then the sketch rendering is like a
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: black guy.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's what they do usually. Though he
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: was black, I swear, Hey, you know what who else
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: they did that with Salmonio. Yeah, he was fucking stabbed
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: in an alley and they said that it was a
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: black guy.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Everybody looks black that night.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: No, they literally, Okay, I was gonna say, they literally
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: blamed it on a black guy.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: But it was like, honey, they're always blaming black guys.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: They're always blaming black guys. But you know this to me,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: like the kids literally said to the police, there is
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: a he looks like this, he just shot this taxi
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: driver outside of our house. And the police dispatcher goes,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: there's a black male, Like, I mean, that's just a classic,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: like literally to throw them off so they wouldn't be
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: looking for Michael Achino. Well, remember in uh they probably
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: said he looks like fucking Mickey Mouse with his fucking
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: haircut and a pumpkin pie haircut and fucking freak out.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Here there's a nigram mouse on the.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: You know that fucking hairstyle that Michael Achino had with
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: the fucking he did that to like look like Mickey Mouse.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I know that Sean McCann says that, and I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: feel like I've seen it somewhere else, but it might
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: have been him that I heard it from. Yeah, but yeah,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: I have heard that. Sean McKennon says that, But the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: fucking pointed eyebrows and shit too.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: That to me looks like the Devil.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: But I mean, it's very cartoonish. But so.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: It was two days after the taxi driver that a
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: new letter from the Zodiac claimed credit for the killing
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: and threatened a attack on a school bus by blowing it.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Up, which just doesn't fit.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: It doesn't fit it at all. No, and that's why
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: there are theories that Ted Kazinski was the Zodiac killer.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: I've heard that too.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think that fits at all.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: No, he's Terrence McKenna.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Now some people might remember this from the movie, but
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I think that it's really interesting because October twenty second,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, somebody identifying himself as the Zodiac called
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: and requested to speak to either F. E. F Lee
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Bailey or San Francisco attorney Melvin Belli, And in a
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: fucking theatrical turn of events, the man calling himself Sam
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: ended up having a live chat on the air the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: ci A linked BELLI. Eight years later we would have
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: The Son of Sam, which also was CIA. So I
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: think this is interesting if you're calling to say, like,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: you're the Zodiac, but my name is Sam, and I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: don't know what are your thoughts on that.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: Well, if you look into Marie what was his last name, Terry,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: his his work and it is one of the best documentaries.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I've seen on the Ultimate Evil, Well.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: It wasn't even called That's that's the name of his book.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: It was like, I don't know, I remember what they've
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: they changed the name for the Netflix series, But that
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: is actually one of the things that made David McGowan
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: want to write Program to Kill It was Mary Terry's work.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: So you get him going out on a limb really,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: but he did have some evidence to back it up
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: that Sam through the processed church Let's connected to the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Manson family. So if you're talking about the same era
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: with the Zodiac stuff, I mean, I don't think with
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of the groundwork that's been laid out by
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of other researchers, that's too far of a leap.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: And I mean, funk, what's his name, David Burkowitz. Yeah,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: So with David Berkowitz, I mean, the Son of Sam
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: that was his neighbor and it was like the Suns
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: and that's where like the Talking dog and all that
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: stuff came into it. So yeah, I mean, who knows
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: it could be something.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it just to me proves again that this
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: was all theater, even having this so called Zodiac guy
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: and like, you remember the other night when you played
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: something and I was like, is that the Art Bell
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Show because it was so sensationalized a guy calling in about.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: The Yeah, it was the closing track on Tool.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, And I was like, oh, is that from
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: the Art Bell Show? Because that was so popular and
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: they're coming for us, they've been here all along. And
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: then they have something like this with the Zodiac Killer
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: where he's like calling in and you can hear him
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: live and like, you know, all the atrocities that's been
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: credited to him, and he's having a fucking friendly chat
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: with like this this CIA linked fucking guy, And it
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: just to me is like another aspect of the theatrics
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: of it all, especially if it was multiple assailants and
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: not just one guy. Like I don't know, no, I agree,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: it just seems so theatrical so Also in November nineteen
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: sixty nine, these two fucking Scientologist motherfuckers were found savagely
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: murdered on the streets of Los Angeles. Each of them
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: had been stabbed more than fifty fucking times. One of
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: the victims had dated Manson disciples Bruce Davis in nineteen
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: sixty eight, just before Charlie had sent Davis to London
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: to visit both the headquarters of the Processed Church and
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: the local Scientology school, and Bruce Davis was later convicted
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: of other unrelated murder charges, and he has been identified
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: by some researchers as a possible suspect in the Zodiac
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: killings as well.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: Your thoughts, well, I just it's funny that these other
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: murder charges were unrelated when they're all pretty fucking unrelated.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: But like they get away with certain things, like these
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: two scientologists are found stabbed fifty fucking times a piece.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is a risk to join the Church
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: of Scientology.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: That's a good one.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: I mean think about that though, Like a lot of
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: the stuff that goes on in Hollywood is so intricately
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: linked with the Church of Scientology, and a lot of
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: people do know that but it goes way back, and
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: I mean if no one out there, if you're if
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: you are interested in the scientology stuff. The movie The
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Master that Paul Thomas Anderson made where Philip Seymour Hoffman
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: plays the like l Ron Hubbard esque character.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: I mean it just it kind of just shows you,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: like the web that was weaved. And as Sam Tripley
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: always says, like the Church of Scientology very well could
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: have been like a naval intelligence operation. It's got many
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: markings for that. Well.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: I covered it a little bit on Program to Kill
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Part six when I did like the history of a
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: lot of these things in like occult groups, and the
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: basis of scientology is Alster Crowley.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Hubbard was running around with those guys Parsons.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: What's the Nazis' name that started NASA Werner.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Von Bron Warner von Bron.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean the Church of Scientology. It's so
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: weird because it's so secretive. Until South Park made their episodes,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: often I didn't see it.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Well, l is it good? Is it honest and truthful?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Well, it just repeats that Tom Cruise is trapped in.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: A closet over and over, But so they did consider
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: this this Manson disciple fucking Zodiac suspect. And so again
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: we kind of see like the Manson killings in the
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: Manson family, I mean, alongside Zodiac in certain regards.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it's just like you pointed out earlier
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: the dates m h. It's almost like you have a
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Psya up in La and Asia op in the Bay
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Area and they are in tandem.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: And so with that, do you kind of think do
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: you kind of see like like if Zodiac was multiple assailants,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: like one guy was the knife guy, one guy was
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: like the gun guy, one guy was like the bomb guy.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Does that sound stupid?
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I mean not necessarily, Like if you.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Were going to kill someone, if they were like, hey
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: we got a couple of people. We want you to
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: go stab them up or like go kill them and
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well I'll knife them.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Well, like we were talking about earlier, it's weapons of opportunity.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not always going to be the same.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Like one guy was real theatrical. He was like I'm
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: gonna knife them and I'm gonna wear a costume.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, he probably had his own theme song.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: I wonder how that went. So there was this guy,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: his name was Stanley Baker, and he murdered this person.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: And when they arrested him, he said, I have a problem.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: I'm a cannibal. And he fucking pulled this fucking nod
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: off human finger out of his fucking pocket, and he
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: literally confessed his involvement in a number of other murders
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: that he claimed he committed as a member of the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: process spawned for pie cult. Have you heard of it?
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: I think from mm.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Hmm, And I also mentioned it in the last episode
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: of Program to Kill, and police were able to confirm
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: his complicity in a particularly brutal mutilation murder in San
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Francisco thanks to his having left behind a bloody fingerprint,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: but somehow California courts still declined to prosecute Baker for
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: the homicide, with the ridiculous claim that he had been
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: denied a speedy trial, despite his confessed involvement in a
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: number of murders, and despite the fact that the murder
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: for which he was convicted involved him ripping out the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: man's heart and fucking eating it. And Baker was released
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: from prison after just fourteen years, and according to recent reports,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: he remains at large today and during his incarceration, he
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: started his own satanic cult and had eleven weapons confiscated
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: from him.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: By guards, all at the same time.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: They were all in his ass.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's weird that it seems very Henry
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: le Lucas, But.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: That's probably why I put that in my notes, because
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: it seems as though some people, especially when they end
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: up being cannibals and shit like Henry Lee Lucas in
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Otice Tool, they get protected from on high. He didn't
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: have a speedy trial, so he gets off the hook.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: He ripped a man's heart out.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: A good reason, wasn't speedy enough or like.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: So they find his bloody fingerprints. They're able to connect
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: him to multiple burders and his own confession, and then
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: he confesses and he rips a man's heart out, and
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: he has a fucking person's not off finger in his pocket,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: and he gets fourteen years and fucking that's it. That's
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: all she wrote. He says he's part.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Of Colts too, and then started his own.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: And then started his own cult and somehow has weapons
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: in jail.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, if they found eleven, imagine how many of
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: they didn't find.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying like, that's pretty fucked up, and
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: they're usually connected when they're protected from on high like that,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: of course. But so in the late nineteen sixties and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies, not only did Stanley Baker, who's ripping
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: people's hearts out and chewing their fucking fingers off, and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Charlie Manson migrate away from San Francisco, many other disenchanted
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: hippies and flower children did as well.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so to me, you get northern California is like
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: the mecca. It's like the birthplace of the serial killer movement.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: And how can that be coincidental? You have many many
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: you have many military intelligence operations going on there, you know,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: including like the acid movement, and it's also where a
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: lot of these fuckers came from, and Michael Lokino as well.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Mmmmm, that's where I mean, California should just fall off
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: the fucking map at this point.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: It's cozy, learn just swim.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like you go there and you just
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: die Laurel Canyon death.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Well, we're only fourteen miles above there.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: You think if we go visit, we'll get taped Bobby
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: on Good, No, we're not famous enough.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: You'll probably be it.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: We'll be one of those nameless.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Spaces like the Stanley Hotel.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Do you want to be the male Black Dahlia?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Only if I can survive to tell the tale.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Now with your fucking dick cut off and your fucking.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: The medical industry is very it's the advancements are amazing.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: They can put your body back together if it's like
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: hacked in in many pieces.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: I could just be like a torso and a wheelchair.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: You'll have a colostomy back.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: I always wanted one.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not changing it. We'll have to get home nurse.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Most of these motherfuckers ended up in Santa Cruz.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: Let's where the last boys to place is. It didn't
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: got the name of that vampire movie?
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Santa Cruz. Okay, well that makes sense.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: It's the vampire.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of them began to operate small
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: portable pill factories in the remote parts of the forest,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: turning out LSD and amphetamines for the city market, free
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: of police harassment.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Well, puck, yeah, it was keeping those guys in work.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: M HM. Also, seemingly random, motiveless killings quickly began to
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: plague Santa Cruz, and on October nineteenth, nineteen seventy, in
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: a case closely mirroring the slaughter at the Tate House
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: the year before, John Lindley Frasier allegedly acts alone killed
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: all the occupants of a home in Santa Cruz, including
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: a prominent doctor, his wife, secretary, and two children. Frasier,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: who was known to have a strong interest in the occult,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: was said to have started his own lifestyle as an
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: aquarian age hermit living in a six foot square shack
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: in the woods, a lifestyle later adopted by Fucking Ted Kaczinski.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: Ted Kazinski, by the way, was a subject of mk
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: Ultra experiments while he was a young student at Harvard
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: and had been named by some researchers, as we were
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: saying earlier, as a suspect in the Zodiac killings, although
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: I disagree. I don't think he fits Zodiac, but he
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: was MK ultra as a motherfucker.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of people kind of cross the
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: stories there because he was I think sixteen when he
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: went to Harvard, so he was like sixteen or seventeen
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: when he got into the mk lter experiments. His didn't
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: have anything to do with LSD. They actually just had
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: him like right, out like humiliating fears.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: He had, and then damn and then they.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Just like chastised him until he broke and we all
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: know where that led.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he looked like a crazy motherfucker there at the
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: end too. He just died recently. He died this year,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: didn't he.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: I think it was a couple of years, or like
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: last year.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was last year, but so curiously, just over
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: a week after the Fraser killings, a Halloween card was
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: received from the Zodiac, and more cards and letters followed,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: the last of which arrived in nineteen seventy four. The
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: murders were never solved, though many believe that Manson and
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: the Zodiac killer were connected, which I definitely think they were,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: But no one ever puts those two things together, because,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: like I said before, they've been brainwashed by fucking Netflix
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: and fucking HBO documentaries, and they never fucking put the
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: pieces together that those two things could either be connected
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: or be ran by the same people.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and fucking soon after Frasier's rampage, women began going
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: missing from around the Santa Cruz area. As early as
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: autumn of nineteen sixty eight, reports began surfacing of grizzly
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: occult sacrifices being performed in the surrounding mountains, and by
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen seventy two, it was clear that
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: Santa Cruz had a fucking problem. Mutilated bodies began showing
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: up in the hills. By the time nine teen seventy three,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: world around, the bodies were piling up at an alarming rate.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: In just the first six weeks of the year, eight
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: bodies were found, and women were continuing to disappear. Santa
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Cruz had achieved the distinction of having the highest homicide
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: rate in the country. Many of the area's killings were
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: credited to two alleged serial killers, Edmund Kemper and Herb Mullen,
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: who were said to be operating at the same time
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: in the same city, though acting completely independently of each other.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: They were like the cocin Pepsi of serial murder.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: Do you know much about these two?
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Uh? In passing? Neither one of them might really dove
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: headfirst into.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: They're definitely, like you said, like Henry Lee and Otis,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: but like if they never teamed up, like they were
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: very similar and honestly, they have a really high body
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: count for a lot of people, you know when you
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: say serial killer, Like, what are the names people think of?
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Like those are
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: the biggies, Those are who people recognize. But these two
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: assholes Edmund Kemper and fucking bitch Tit fucking this Herb Mullin,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: like they have huge body counts and for some reason
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: they are not sensationalized in the same way as a
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: lot of other serial killers are, which is interesting to me.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: But Kemper's bloody odyssey reportedly included eight victims brutally butchered
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: between May nineteen seventy two and April nineteen seventy three,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: most of them co eds whose corpses were cannibalized and
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: sexually violated. So there is another.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: I like to eat.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: It.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: Fucked the pieces, babe, Oh my god, how do you
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 5: cannibalize them and then sexually violate them anyways, unless.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: You like they're getting wined and dined, babe.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: You're just as twisted it fucked up as I am.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: More so so.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: This asshole. Fucking Mullen was credited with dispatching thirteen victims
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: in just four months from October thirteenth nineteen seventy two
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: through February thirteenth, nineteen seventy three, Mullen admitted to having
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: a strong interest in the occult, a fact made evident
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: by the nature of the killings attributed to him. The
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: first victim was killed on Friday the thirteenth, the second
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: honor about Halloween, and the third murder was the stabbing
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: of a Catholic priest in his confessional on November second,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: celebrated as All Souls Day. Now to briefly recap, no
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: fewer than six serial killers slash mass murderers, Charles Manson,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: Stanley Baker, Edmund Kempert, Herbert Mullen, John Lyndley Fraser, and
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: the Zodiac were all spawned from the Santa Cruz, San
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Francisco metropolitan area in a span of just over four years,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: at a time when the serial killers were a rare
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: enough phenomenon that they hadn't yet acquired a name. So
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I think that this time in history was ushering in
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: the phenomenon of the serial killer. I mean, think of
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: the names on that list. A lot of them people
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: aren't even familiar with, Like the Stanley Baker guy here.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just say Charles Manson and the Zodiac.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: You get those four dudes in the middle. Yeah, I
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: don't think anybody knows who those are. If they're just
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: like you know, they're true crime hobbyists. Those names aren't
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: gonna come up a lot. Stanley Baker, Edmund Kemper, Herbert Mullen,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: John Lindley.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: Frasier, like you don't hear about them.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely not as big as Manson and Zodiac.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: But do you think this was the training wheels for
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: what was going to become the tied Bundy's and the
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmins.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: And then the hotbed area being northern California of course,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: right would be kind of where I mean, you had
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of these like satanic ritual abuse stuff happening
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: with kids, and Michael Lochino also who he keep masking.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: Was that happening that was happening around this same time
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: too though, right? Yeah, so you have that and this.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think like the lid getting blown
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: off of all the sex abuse scandals with the military
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: bases and preschools was much.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: Later than this, but it's the same area.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at Michael Achino's past himself,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: as a child. It's it was going on way before
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: any of this, So yeah, I think it's safe to
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: say that it was the breeding ground for it.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: And also what was taking place in this in this
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: era is something that you and I love to talk about,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: which is Laurel Canyon.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you had in this area, the one everybody knew
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: about for the longest time before McGowan's work would be
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: just the the LSD music scene with all of the
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: fucking tell tale c A connections and just the basic psyop.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, for fuck's sake, you had Courtney Love's dad
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: back there.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's a hard one. It's like,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: when I first found out about the Laurel Canyon connections,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: it was hard for me to believe that all of
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: the people that I grew up loving so much could
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: be like this could all.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Just be.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: For me controlled I guess, yeah, it's hard. So it's
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: like even harder to believe that they're running multiple programs
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: at the same time, or it's actually easier to believe
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: that they're running multiple programs at the same time. You
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: got the Laurel Canyon, you got counterculture movement happening, you
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: have all this pedophilia shit going down, and then you
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: have serial killers. It's like they're trying, they're testing the
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: waters for multiple and the Laurel Canyon body count is
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: fucking forever long too.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this definitely took off in California, but
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: you had like Tavistock with the Beatles and like the
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: Tennessee music scene. A lot of this stuff was happening
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: way before this. But it's almost like they just went
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: fucking hogwild in California, like they were.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: Just given it was the birthplace.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it was like an experiment on many levels
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: and a multi.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: Layer, like a five layer burrito of like CIA programs.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think a lot of blowback happened from
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: it too, because if you look at like, yeah, you
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, none of this shit outside Santa Cruz was
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: sensationalized now the Manson killings, where it's almost like America
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: just had an overload with the Manson stuff and it
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't They didn't either, They didn't feel the need to
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: blow it up in the media like they did Manson
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: and the others in Zodiac. But this other stuff's way
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: more interesting to me, where you had just like these
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: independent people maybe working on their own volition, fucking sacrificing
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: people ritualistically in the mountains of Santa Cruz.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: It's pretty fun.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Could it be blowback or was it part of the
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: plan too, where it was just like, you know, that
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: was our rough draft. We'll just throw this one away.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: Now to kind of give the listeners a little hint
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: on what we're going to be talking about in our
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: next episode together.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: And a hint for me too, is that.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Another serial killer was said to be at work not
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: far away. During the same timeframe, the bodies of at
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: least fourteen young women and girls were found nude and
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: with their belongings missing in northern California between December nineteen
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: sixty nine and December nineteen seventy three. In the immediate
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: vicinity of each of the bodies was found an elaborate
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: witchcraft symbol of twigs and rocks that was mentioned in
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: a very well researched book I read called The Deliberate
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: Stranger by Richard Larson. You should read that. It's really good,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: and he was investigating the one and only Theodore Robert Bundy.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: It's curious no one ever mentions this though in the
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: Netflix documentaries about the fucking Twigs and berry fucking occult
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: fucking insignia that was found near all of the Bundy victims.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not well known.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, and like I said, I do think that
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: the fucking Manson Stanley Baker, Edmund Kimper, Herbert Mullen, John Linley,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: Free Zodiac, like they were the training wheels for like
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: these bigger projects that they were working on. Because then
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: it all of a sudden we get fucking Ted Bundy.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: And then was it not long after that? Who was
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: right after Ted Bundy? Maybe like dom No gay Sy
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: and then Dahmer because Dahmer was like nineties, I.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: Mean maybe as far back as the seventies and eighties.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: They've tried to link a lot of stuff to him.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: I mean he's another you know, military baby.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean sure.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: They've tried to say that there was stuff in Germany,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: I believe where he was stationed that went unsolved. Well,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: he was there, so he could have been getting his
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: fucking fingers wet long before the Netflix shit talked.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: About Did you watch any of those which ones like
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: the Netflix on you did? We talk talked about it
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: on on Ted Bundy and Jeff Hmer, the Ted Bundy
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: tapes around.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I see a lot of that stuff. I'll
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: start and I don't, I don't. I mean a lot
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: of it's just regurgitated. And I mean back when I
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: was a teenager, I read all the serial Killer books
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: and the tapes. I mean, they're interesting, but it seems
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: to me like Netflix really wants to draw this shit out, yeah,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: ties or whatever.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: I did find the fictionalized version with Evan Peters to be.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Oh of Jeff Dahmer phenomenal. Oh yeah, now that was
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: one that was like, I do think they snuck some
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: woke shit.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: Oh. They definitely tried to make it a race thing.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah they did.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: There was that element to it. But he didn't fucking discriminate.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: Oh no, he had an Alaoesian kid, He had black guys,
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: white guys.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: He had.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: They talked about the kid in the in the in
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: the show, Yeah, what was his name, conorrac synthis.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: In foam.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: Say that five times then.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: But you know, I think that they do kind of
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: make celebrities out of these motherfuckers, not.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Just kind of God's out of them.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: They are kind of like idols a little and so
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: you know, can I ask you something from a man's
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: perspective and like you just give me your honest answer. Okay,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: So I watched a documentary and actually, when I came
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: to visit you the first time, I really wanted you
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: to watch it with me. And maybe we'll get around
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: to it one day. It's on Amazon Prime, but it's
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: it's Ted Bundy's long term girlfriend giving her account of
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: how she saw things unfolding.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: And this is the one that like talked to him
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: right before he got executed. Yeah.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Her name is Elizabeth Klepford and she actually turned him
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: in and that was in the the zach Efron movies too. Yeah, Now,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: if he was doing this stuff and he was necrofiling
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: and obviously he's got these fucking twigs and berry fucking
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: witchcraft symbols and doing all this ship up in the mountains,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: some of the girls were decapitated, some of them like
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: they were in various states of mutilation. And he's going
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: back home to Elizabeth and they're fucking and she's not
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: getting one hint of a fucking iota of a fucking
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: clue that there's something wrong with him.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: An accomplice for all right now, But that's.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying. It would make more sense that she
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: never got a yeast infection, never got a UTI. I
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: don't know he's she never said that though she never
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: she was like, oh, I would have never known he
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: was with the dead bodies. You would have had to, right,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: because like, if you're fucking a dead vagina.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: Going to me from a man's perspective.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Like, no, I'm saying, like, do you think she would
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: have gotten an infection from that? Or do you think I.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: Mean, I'm not a doctor, but it seems risky.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: And also if she never got a hint of anything right,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: either she's retarded or she was in on it.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: Or she's acting. I mean, look at this, because it
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: made me think of it earlier when you first said it,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: and I talked about blowback earlier. If anybody hasn't seen
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: the first season of True Detective, Oh, it's so good.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: These iconography type killings where they leave certain.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: Symbols twigs and berries.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: The reason that would have been covered up and not
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: talked about and sensationalized like the rest of the Bundy
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: stuff is because it was a bunch of people doing
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: it boo, And I mean McGowan even alludes to in
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: Programmed to Kill that a lot of the murders that
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: they pinned on Bundy couldn't have been him, And then
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: there was murders that he may have been involved in
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: that weren't pinned on him. I mean, it just goes
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: all over the place, but it does allude to like
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: a satanic goal of some kind doing all this stuff
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: that he may have been a part of or working
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: in tandem with on different psyops.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Well, he was political and he was Mormon, so he's
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: got that going for him.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: You know, if you want to party, those political Mormons
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: are the ones to hang out with.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones who also liked to necrophile fucking dead person.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: But I mean to summon all up, I think like
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: that we're getting a good picture of like the beginning
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: of this serial killer with.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: This definitely, like you said, this was going on in
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: a time where they didn't even have a name for
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: it yet.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But so if this is the first time you've
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: heard Colby, congrats you've just leveled up in your conspiracy
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: theory game. And with that being said, there is one
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: very important vital piece of information I need you to learn,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: just as soon as humanly possible.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: People a strange When you're.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: A strange, faces look uglue when you're own lone women
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: seeing what kid when your own.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Low streets around.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: Even when you're down, when you're strange, when you strange, No,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 3: when we met as wrenn. When you stray, when you're strange,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 3: stray eat both stray when you're a stranger. Face is
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: not done when you're all lone.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: When let's see why good ready?
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: In Fun four three, you don't say two ruine.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: Fly? I like it? Actually? Do you think this is
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: good between the both of us? Like this distance?
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: I might just get closer to the talk.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, all the girls in.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: Your audience are pick Oh my god, hot cinnamon.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: That is gonna start burning if you don't wipe a
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: dog all right, I.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: Sneak someday zoom. It's gonna cancel all of us and
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: released unedited.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: Transcripts of us.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: It's saying disinformations.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Fucked, It's ready home, I gonna pass. This is the
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: one that the Zodiac Murder opens. The Zodiac movie opens with,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: but I don't remember how to say this guy's last name, nomje.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: I knew because they made a joke about it in
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: the Zodiac that nobody could pronounce his last name and
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: they kept calling him mgu and it's Mijou, Michael Mjou.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, how far are we going to get into
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: the Manson murders in this.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: Episode as far as you want?
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: Well, is there like an episode or coming up that's
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: gonna be specifically.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: About I'm going to really I'm gonna so I think
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: we should talk about it like in this one or later.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, why am I blanking? I am too?
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: Whereon bron Warner von Broun.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: What's his name that wrote did Ilter my Pulter Skelter Bulgosi?
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: I think it's I always said Bulgosi.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: I'm dead. I'm look it up, look up, Skelter'll start
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: that sentence over?
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: Are you having some bays? I changed my my HST team.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: It was Buglios Vincent. Your name was Orlando. I'm Brad