Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jay Seegert: Parallels Between The Russian & American Christian Church

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Jay Seegert: Parallels Between The Russian & American Christian Church · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in.
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  We appreciate you and your supporting and sharing the podcast is getting out there, praise
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  God.
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  I've got a very special treat for you today.
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  We've got a perspective that we're going to hear about Russia, the condition of the Christian
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  church there, and maybe religion and spirituality in general in Russia.
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  So I'm going to bring in two guests today who are in studio.
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  First of all, you know him, Jay Seeger, the starting point project.
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  Jay, good to have you.
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  It's always great to be here and I love your studio.
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  Oh, it's awesome.
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  Thank you.
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  And I'm going to say your name, Pasha Beranov from Calvary Chapel, Vladimir.
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  That's right.
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  Yes.
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  Hello.
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  So, Pastor Pasha, Jay, so good to see you both.
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  Thank you.
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  What I want to just start out briefly, I want to get your story, Pastor.
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  But first, you have a conference coming up, or not a conference, say a Grand Canyon
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  trip for Calvary Chapel pastors.
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  Yes.
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  Tell us about that, Jay.
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  We actually got seven Grand Canyon tours this year.
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  We did seven last year or last year.
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  We first ever.
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  We did a tour just for Calvary Chapel pastors and it was awesome.
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  It went so well.
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  And so we're doing it again this year.
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  I just need a little assistance getting the word out to Calvary Chapel pastors.
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  So it's for Calvary Chapel pastors, their spouses, basically anyone in leadership within
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  the Calvary Chapel churches and their spouses.
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  And it's just a 50 per person covers everything.
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  They just need to get themselves to Phoenix where it starts, but everything's covered family
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  friendly trips on buses, stay in hotels, eat great food.
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  You get to see their Grand Canyon from the top, from the bottom, we'll raft the river,
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  smooth sailing, get to see dinosaur tracks.
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  We go through Antelope Canyon, Glen Canyon Dam, there's so much packed into that trip.
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  It's a Tuesday through a Friday, so the pastors don't have to be out of the pulpit on the
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  weekends.
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  So, if they want more information about our tour, which still has seats available for that
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  particular one, they can go to the starting point project.
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  We do have some seats available on other trips for non-pastures or anyone who wants to
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  go on those.
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  But for the pastors trip, that's in August, August 4th through the 7th, I believe.
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  But the website will give more information.
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  Okay, so we'll talk to Jay a few more times between now and August, because he's going
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  to be one of the speakers at the World View Matters Conference.
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  But I want to give the website, thestartingpointproject.com, I love that new video that you have.
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  It's probably new to me and not you.
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  But it looks wonderful, just very, very well done, very sharp looking professional.
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  Good stuff.
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  Thesestartingpointproject.com.
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  Okay.
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  So, Pastor Pasha, you know I want to get to how are you able to speak freely and share
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  the gospel, the whole council of God from Bible prophecy to moral issues in Russia as
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  a Calvary Chapel pastor.
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  We're going to get to that, but we need to hear your story.
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  You're here visiting Jay, you'll be in the United States for a few weeks.
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  Tell us about your testimony and obviously you're from Russia.
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  What brought you to the Lord and then to the ministry?
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  Okay.
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  So, the story begins in 1992, for me, this was in May of 1992 when the Calvary Chapel
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  Downey had sent a team to witness to share the gospel.
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  So the Californians, the Los Angeles people that looked like angels to me, really because
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  everything was so gloomy, grey, kind of hopeless.
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  What do you mean in Russia, back in the day, this was like the Soviet Union was collapsing
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  all the institutions were being undone, so things were falling apart.
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  So there was not much to look for and I lost hope and whatever promises the government
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  was giving people, or things that the teachers in school were giving us as goals, they were
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  disillusioned themselves, also my family, they were not holding it together.
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  My friends, nobody black to look up to.
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  So it was pretty hopeless for me.
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  So on my way to school, I found a flyer just on the ground, and it was a Christian concert
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  in some broken Russian language.
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  It was communicating that there will be a concert in, like, it was a mess of an invitation,
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  nonetheless, I picked it up and I came to a Christian concert, which I mean, I didn't
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  hear music, I saw the light, I saw people of God and heard the gospel for the first time.
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  So I turned my heart to the Lord and since then I started following Him, that's the beginning.
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  So on the next major point for me to become more serious was baptism, I think, I can mix
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  up the sequence a little bit, but there were two very important things, the baptism when
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  I consciously just followed the Lord's commandments and just wanted to do what's right.
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  So I mean, it's pretty simple, get wet, get dunked in the water, but it meant a lot to
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  me and my friends, with me, my mom, approved of it, so were you the first in your family
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  to come to the Lord?
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  Well, it was basically my mom and myself, she was raising me for most of my life.
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  So when I brought home a Bible, this big, I said, okay, this is real, this is Christian,
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  so you can do, you can go this way, she approved of it.
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  So I was baptized and I threw my drugs away, wow, stuff that I was messing with and then
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  there was a big, big step, big change in my life when I attended the first creation conference.
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  So Roger Auckland came over, he did the presentation and you know, ten years of schooling of the
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  atheistic worldview.
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  Now this is the government, the education system over there in Russia, right?
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  Yeah, this was 11 times zones covered by this propaganda, materialism, atheism, communism,
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  socialism, all of this, but when it's all crumbling, I mean, I was looking for answers for
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  sure.
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  So by God's grace, I was given the true hope, there were all kinds of ideas flowing into
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  the country, had a Christian and all kinds of cultic ideas and charlatans of all sorts.
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  So it is God's grace.
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  So the message is pretty simple, it's the gospel that saves Jesus is the Savior.
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  But then I needed to, some foundation to make the steps because mentally, my information,
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  my foundation was all crumbled, I needed something else.
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  So your foundation not in Christ, but your worldly foundation?
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  Yeah, my, the whole structure of the worldview, things that I was taught from my childhood,
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  they first give us fairy tales.
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  When you're a really small kid, I was explaining to Jay that this is like a quick change, kindergarten,
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  fairy tales, and then the next fairy tale is for adults, evolution, and all those millions
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  of years is just a word game and it messes with people's minds, and it looks like it's
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  global now, Islam and evolution, and different sorts of mixtures.
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  Deception is rampant.
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  So Jay, I do want to get to you and how you guys met.
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  But before I do that, what's the difference now with, it sounds like in the 90s, a lot
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  of people were hopeless because the government, you said, if things were crumbling in Russia,
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  government was God.
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  There was no God, one true God, they didn't know about Jesus.
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  And so was there more of an openness to anything spiritually, with a lot of people searching
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  for something, because the government let them down, and what's different about that now,
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  the environment there in Russia?
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  Well as things got more, became more stable economically, and people found their way back
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  to materialistic view.
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  So back in the 90s, when everything was just broken and scattered, people started looking
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  for answers beyond materialistic worldview, just to look for some help from someone.
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  But in essence, a lot of people were still selfish, like they are everywhere, and they
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  just wanted to patch the holes and to satisfy the hungers.
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  And if they rejected the truth, they're all left with the lies, just like the Bible
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  tells us, that's the tendency of all, every generation, it seems.
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  So how did you become a pastor then?
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  Our original pastor was there for 12 years, he came out of Downey, and then the Lord called
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  him back to take over church here in the States.
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  So he said, you are the man, take it.
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  There was some prayer and discussions before that, but in essence this was given to me.
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  Jay Seagard, how did you hear from Pasha then, and how long ago was this?
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  It was probably well six, 2019, so the short version is they had an apologetics conference
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  prior to that, probably about 10 years prior with the Berean call Dave Hunt, over there
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  when he came over to Vladimir, which is a few hours east of Moscow.
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  So they had a conference, well they re-contacted the Berean call, so they'd like another conference,
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  well Dave Hunt had passed away.
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  So the second command who rose up, Tom McMahon, was talking to Pasha, and when Tom got off
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  the phone with Pasha, Tom called me and said, you're going to Russia, and I'm thinking,
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  I'm not going to Russia, I don't want to go to Russia, God doesn't need me in Russia.
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  So I told Tom, I said, well I'll pray about it, that's the Christian thing to do.
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  So I started praying, which is a big mistake, no not a mistake.
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  Within seconds of praying, I sensed in my spirit, God says you're going to Russia, and so
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  we ended up going to Russia to do an apologetics conference, and I was nervous, I was not fearful
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  for my safety, I just don't like to be uncomfortable, and so it was a very different environment,
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  but when I was there, I felt like not only am I supposed to be here, I need to come back
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  to be in a communist country, to be able to share the gospel, and to share with the church,
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  which he did all the translating, which helped me because he's really good at English,
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  so I would say something he would translate it to his church congregation, and it went
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  really really well, so that was 2019, we've kept in touch, and then he said he's coming
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  to the states here and wanted to visit me, so he flew into Oher and came up to walk
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  a show to visit me, so we're spending a couple days together, and we've already got
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  some plans to do some work together.
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  That's fantastic, and you're going to go back.
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  Yeah, I guess so, I will be nervous, but I'll do it.
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  So you're visiting a family, are you speaking at churches while you're here?
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  Well, somewhat, yeah, my son lives in Montana.
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  Montana, so I'm going to visit him and then go see a couple of churches.
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  So let's talk about what we were sharing some emails back and forth on the State of
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  the Union, because we just had a big State of the Union address here in the United States
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  at President Trump gave.
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  So what are things like in Russia when it comes to the government and the relationship
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  or lack thereof with Christians and churches there?
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  I mean, true biblical churches.
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  These are legal, it's not-
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  Which might surprise a lot of people?
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  Yeah, they're not persecuted in like the full sense of the word, and there's different
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  regions, there's more Islamic areas, and you can do less things, and some central areas
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  are okay, there's big cities where there's just a lot of churches, Baptist, Pentecostal,
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  charismatic, and even Calvary Chapel.
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  There's 25 or 30 of us in Russia.
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  Yeah, so we are not as free as we used to be, like in the 90s when everything was free,
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  like on every corner, in every church, I mean, every school, all theaters, even factories,
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  halls, they were open for gospel, for ministry, for concerts.
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  So it was a big explosion, a big wave that the gospel came on.
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  A lot of ministers, a lot of churches, a lot of schools, Christian schools were started.
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  So all kinds of work was going throughout the country, radio, television, there was
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  no internet at the time, but it was a lot.
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  And I feel like my entire generation and people of my parents' generation, they were able
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  to hear the gospel.
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  So it was clearly presented by God's grace, God's people came, and there was enough witnesses
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  for that season.
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  So and then everybody, I feel like everybody was making up their mind, and as a lot of
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  people return to their old tracks, not the politics, because it's not communist, it's
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  a democracy of a sort, it's different than Western world, but in theory, it's the same.
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  It's just a different approach, different heritage.
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  They come from a different angle, but they strive to do it like in the West for a season.
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  It takes godly bunch of people to do things.
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  So we're going to take a brief pause, and when we come back, I want to just ask you about
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  the spiritual maturity or hunger there, and have you observed enough about the church in
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  America to make any comparisons?
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  We'll be right back, friends, on World View Matters.
• 15:15
  Register now for the World View Matters Conference May 1st and 2nd in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 15:21
  Expert speakers include Alex Newman, Brianna Clawson, Olivier Melnick, Tim Chaffey, Mark
• 15:29
  and Amber Archer, Laura Perry Smalls, Jake Jacobs, Jay Seigert, Gary Caw, Scott Shera,
• 15:39
  and Elijah Abraham, Delta Hotel Green Bay May 1st and 2nd, go to WorldviewMattersConference.com
• 15:47
  that's WorldviewMattersConference.com.
• 15:52
  So we're back in the studio, Jay Seigert, the starting point project.com, and Pasha
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  Baranoff from Calvary Chapel, Vladimir.
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  I'm getting the hang of that, aren't I?
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  Now, before we got on the podcast, we were talking about Vladimir Putin.
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  We say Vladimir, but it is Vladimir.
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  Vladimir.
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  Vladimir.
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  Okay.
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  We got to rule the R too.
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  Jay, try that.
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  Vladimir.
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  Vladimir.
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  Vladimir.
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  Vladimir.
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  I'll never get it right.
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  So Jay, apologetics, that's your specialty, apologetics, creation.
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  So you went over there, blessed the congregation, whoever was at that conference.
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  Talked us a little bit about that, maybe the feedback you got.
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  Had they heard a lot of apologetics before you went, and obviously there was an interest
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  or hunger for your message and what you had to share?
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  Sure.
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  It was very encouraging, a little different, because you're largely talking to an audience
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  that doesn't speak English, which is understandable.
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  So you don't have the same kind of feedback, but visually you could tell that everyone
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  was just really listening and interested and hungry, which that was the biggest thing
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  that I noticed is the hunger, the level of hunger for this information and the encouragement
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  that it brought them, where I get a lot of good feedback here in the U.S., but sometimes
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  they take it for granted, like, yeah, yeah, whatever, you know, after you hear something,
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  hey, what do you want to go for lunch?
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  And they just go on with their lives.
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  Yeah.
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  No, I do get better feedback as well.
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  In Russia and in Pasha's church, you could tell they were all really hungry to hear this.
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  Each presentation, it meant a lot to them.
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  They didn't take it for granted, and they were in a more challenging situation, so I think
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  they appreciated a little bit more.
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  So back to the hunger, that's what Jay observed when he went to your church.
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  So have you made any observations about any comparisons with churches in Russia and the
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  American church, because we are kind of spoiled over here, especially with our religious
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  freedoms and being founded, at least, as a Christian nation, 250 years ago?
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  I think there's differences, but I cannot be objective on things that just seems like
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  there's so much more Christianity, so much more heritage from the previous generation.
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  There's a lot of work, a lot of missions, a lot of support going throughout the world,
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  so this cannot be taken or this cannot be ignored.
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  So it's a wonderful part of God's kingdom.
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  So European Christianity came here, fleeing from the king's persecution, so it feels
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  like the posterity of their children are sending the debt back to Europe, so paying back
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  in the spiritual sense, I mean, this is how the gospel went around the world, starting
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  in Jerusalem, and to the end of the world, and I guess it made so many circles.
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  It's hard to monitor all of this by any particular group of nation, any church, but globally.
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  So I love it here, it's refreshing to be among the Christians here.
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  I see enough sound and healthy, spiritually mature people.
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  Well, you go to some good churches.
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  I think I do.
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  There's a short time.
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  Yeah, you're blessed.
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  There are some churches that you have to put air quotes around the word church, because
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  I don't know how they get away with teaching what they're teaching and doing what they're
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  doing in America, but sadly, a lot of very watered down gospels that would not approach
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  apologetics and talk about these serious creation things like that.
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  So Jay, why do you think the need is so great?
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  You go over to Russia, but I'm thinking we need that here.
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  Go ahead and share whatever's on your heart.
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  I'd, you know, big picture, short amount of time is one of the biggest problems I see
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  is Christianity can be paired down to two basic tenants.
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  God exists and he created everything.
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  And number two, the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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  Those are the two basic, underlining pillars of Christianity.
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  Everything else is a subtopic of one of those things, but most Christians are not well
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  positioned to answer those two basic questions.
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  How do you know God exists and how do you know the Bible is the inspired word of God?
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  They tend to believe those things, but when confronted by a well-meeting skeptic asking
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  an incredibly reasonable question, they start to fumble around.
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  Like, well, that's a red flag.
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  If you're asking a Christian the most basic questions and they already don't do a good
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  job of answering that, why would you listen to anything else they have to say?
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  And with all these social issues that we're struggling with, it should never, ever, ever
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  be our philosophy versus someone else's because who are we that the whole world cares?
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  What we think, we should always say, hold on a second, fascinating topic.
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  Let me see what the Bible says about that.
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  What is God's word say?
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  If they have a problem with what we're sharing, the problem isn't with us, it's with what
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  God's word says, but Christians are sometimes hesitant to do that because the question is
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  going to go home up.
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  Well, that's just a Bible stuff, you know, and that's just another religious book.
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  There's a lot of other religious books.
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  And the Christian, again, isn't well suited to say, hold on, it's not just another religious
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  book.
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  It's actually the inspired word of God.
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  And let me tell you how I know that.
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  They can't go that direction.
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  So they'll tend to back off of the Bible while you lose your source of authority.
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  You have no ultimate source of authority at that point if you're not grounding it in
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  God's word.
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  We need to be able to answer this is why the Bible is true.
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  Sure.
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  Right?
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  And even there's some churches in our country that have strayed from inerrancy.
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  And that happened, I don't know, a hundred years ago, started in different, you know, factions,
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  but so do you, when you go approach, like if you go back to Russia, how do you approach
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  like, would you go to another, the Calvary Chapel or somewhere else or to come?
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  Sure, we go right back to Pasha's church.
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  Yeah, we'll hope to make it bigger, but here we'll be in light out there and build the
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  church bigger.
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  So, well, so do Calvary Chapples have a good reputation over there?
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  There's more of the mature Bible believing Christians who get Bible prophecy and things
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  like that.
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  And what are your thoughts on that?
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  I'm not actually sure.
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  I know that here again, there's a lot of different churches and there are many, many
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  really good churches around.
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  My experience I've been in 59 Calvary Chapples now and I say they're cookie cutters and usually
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  that's a bad thing.
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  Like not, I mean it in a good way, they're very similar and they all are very serious
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  about scripture, word for word going through a scripture that way, which is refreshing
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  and there are other churches that do that, but there are too many that don't.
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  I'm not really sure over in Russia, I would guess all the Calvary Chapples are pretty
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  consistent, but I'm not sure what other Christian churches are like over there that are
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  not Calvary Chapples.
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  Well we do have a reputation for biblical faithfulness, like faithfulness to the scripture,
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  exposition and practice.
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  So my friend said, one of my friends said that it's weird like an injection, the shot
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  in the arm to the rest of us, evangelicals in Russia, because as we cross past, I mean
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  most of them didn't hear the name, but once they start hearing it a few years ago, you're
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  everywhere, so it's usually a good experience for them.
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  So if we're talking about the Bible, ministry, we're on good terms with anyone who loves
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  God.
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  Yeah.
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  One thing I thought about when you go over to Russia, do you talk about things like the
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  Grand Canyon?
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  Everybody knows where it is and pretty much about it, but over there, they might not
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  understand from a aspect of world history and what happened during the flood, and do you
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  talk about that as well?
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  We did.
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  I probably gave maybe six presentations over there and one of them, a request to one was
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  on the flood in general, because the flood was worldwide, we could have been in Russia
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  as well.
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  The Grand Canyon is something that at least people they know of, and so I was able to talk
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  about the Grand Canyon and what happened there, but then say this didn't just happen there,
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  this happened all over the planet when talking about the different layers and you could tie
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  them in from the bottom layer at the Grand Canyon, the first sedimentary layer that
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  tepeet sandstone, you can tie that over into Jordan and Petra where the buildings are carved
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  into the rocks, it's the same sediments over there, so you can tie them in around the
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  world, so I was able to talk about a worldwide flood by bringing up the topic of the Grand
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  Canyon.
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  That's interesting.
• 24:53
  The whole new generation of kids, people that need to be educated, because the school curriculum
• 24:59
  is about the same, even though there's a little bit religion mixed in, but...
• 25:04
  Now when you say religion, what does that include?
• 25:08
  Official religions like Orthodox, Christian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox Church, and then...
• 25:13
  Isn't that good?
• 25:15
  Islam.
• 25:16
  Isn't that based on the Russian Orthodox?
• 25:17
  That's kind of like Catholic, just the Eastern branch of that type of a very formal, very
• 25:25
  traditional church, and it's been in Russia for 1,000 years or more.
• 25:31
  So in the school system there, that they not only teach, when you say religion, that includes
• 25:36
  everything, right?
• 25:37
  Islam, Buddhism, everything?
• 25:40
  Depending on the region and the kids, I think they can choose which class they want
• 25:43
  to go to.
• 25:45
  So if it's one of the stunts, Dagestan or Chechnya or Bashkarta stunts, tatar stunts,
• 25:52
  several Muslim republics, so they most of them probably choose Islamic class, and it's
• 25:59
  very nominal, just basic stuff, even Judaism is presented in school.
• 26:04
  Okay.
• 26:05
  It's just very interesting to hear different and to learn more about, you know, we had preconceptions
• 26:10
  and ideas on maybe what the climate is like, spiritually over there, and from the churches
• 26:16
  to the education system, and very interesting.
• 26:19
  So Jay, we've got a minute and a half, and the pressure is on them, and let you close
• 26:23
  it out with whatever shots you'd like to share.
• 26:25
  Pasha, it was great to meet you, and thank you for coming in, enjoy the rest of your time
• 26:29
  here in the States.
• 26:30
  Thank you, David.
• 26:31
  I would just encourage the audience not to be myopic, and just think about yourself
• 26:36
  here in the United States, but realize this message that we're excited about is going
• 26:41
  on all over the world, including Russia, and we need to move away from the idea of the
• 26:46
  old Soviet Union, and thinking that they're making sure there are no churches going on.
• 26:50
  It's very, very different today, but be praying for people like Pasha to be carrying out,
• 26:56
  you know, preaching on the authority of God's Word, just like we need it here, they need
• 27:00
  it there as well.
• 27:01
  So all the problems in the world around us can only be solved by turning back to Scripture
• 27:05
  and Pasha's doing his job in Russia.
• 27:08
  Praise God.
• 27:09
  It just reminds me of the global body of Christ.
• 27:12
  We have brothers and sisters around the world.
• 27:15
  You know, we try to remind people of that when we hear things about persecution, about
• 27:19
  Nigeria, what's happening in the underground church in Iran, Iran.
• 27:23
  I would just think about Christians everywhere, so we have to get out of our American mindset,
• 27:29
  and think about, from the spiritual perspective, the body of Christ all around the world.
• 27:34
  So it's exciting and challenging times at the same time, but brothers, thank you so much
• 27:39
  again for coming in.
• 27:40
  Thank you.
• 27:41
  Friends, thank you so much for sharing the podcast.
• 27:42
  God bless you, and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.