Latest / Non-Toxic Living / How Music, Boundaries, and Faith Transformed Lives with Drew McManus (Satsang)

Transcript

How Music, Boundaries, and Faith Transformed Lives with Drew McManus (Satsang) · Non-Toxic Living

• 0:00
  We tend to learn the best when our heart hurts the most.
• 0:02
  Like when things are going really well, we don't listen to God quite as well.
• 0:06
  But it's when you're, you know, on your hands and knees,
• 0:09
  feel like your heart's falling out of your chest.
• 0:10
  That's when we start asking really good questions.
• 0:12
  How did this happen?
• 0:13
  What do I need to change so this doesn't happen again?
• 0:16
  Even when I'm being disciplined for my mistakes,
• 0:18
  I feel like it's wrapped in a pillow of love
• 0:20
  when I'm getting the crap beat out of me.
• 0:23
  I feel like it's beating out of me
• 0:25
  something that needs to go out so I can have a higher level of freedom,
• 0:27
  a higher level of connection.
• 0:29
  Life isn't happening to me or at me.
• 0:32
  It's happening for me.
• 0:33
  Amen.
• 0:33
  I just, I really trust God's plan.
• 0:35
  When I was going through the hardest time
• 0:37
  I had to make a decision.
• 0:38
  I had to encourage to make a decision in my business
• 0:41
  that is huge massive risk to be fully me.
• 0:44
  When I played this song over and over again,
• 0:46
  I'm going to read this to you and to the listeners.
• 0:49
  It's going to be great.
• 0:50
  I think for me, the phrase that I always use
• 0:52
  that was like a huge shift for me was it...
• 0:54
  What is it?
• 0:58
  Drew McManus, welcome to the Nontoxic Living Show.
• 1:00
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:01
  Thanks for being here.
• 1:02
  Really cool story, how you got here.
• 1:04
  Just even like a God thing.
• 1:06
  My wife just texted me other day.
• 1:08
  You should bring Drew on your Nontoxic Living Podcast.
• 1:13
  Like, help a brother out.
• 1:14
  You know, bring this message.
• 1:15
  He's transformed your life so much.
• 1:17
  Bring him on your show.
• 1:18
  At the same time, I was literally looking at your Instagram channel.
• 1:24
  Thinking the same exact thing within five minutes
• 1:26
  of her texting that to me.
• 1:28
  And I wrote you immediately.
• 1:30
  You said, hell yeah.
• 1:32
  I was doing it.
• 1:33
  Yeah, you said, let's go.
• 1:34
  And we flew out here and hear you are on the show.
• 1:37
  And I'd like to tell everyone the reason
• 1:39
  that you're here is that his music transformed my life.
• 1:43
  And so many others because I've heard the testimonies.
• 1:47
  I've talked to the people at your concerts,
• 1:50
  stopping people from having suicide.
• 1:52
  And if it wasn't for you,
• 1:53
  wasn't for your music,
• 1:54
  I wouldn't be alive right now.
• 1:55
  When you hear stuff like that,
• 1:57
  it's life transforming.
• 1:58
  And it's the same thing happening to me.
• 1:59
  Different path, different reason, different healing.
• 2:02
  It's all art is translated differently by the eyes of the viewer.
• 2:06
  You might not even written some of this stuff,
• 2:09
  for how it transformed my heart.
• 2:11
  But it did add a Miller four years ago
• 2:13
  on a ply fishing trip, Utah green,
• 2:16
  beautiful environment,
• 2:18
  playing the story of you, playing I am,
• 2:20
  remember jaw, you know, this music.
• 2:22
  And it just, for the place I was at, it set me free.
• 2:25
  And I'll even read some of those lyrics.
• 2:28
  One of the most powerful lyrics,
• 2:30
  I don't even know if this is your favorite song,
• 2:31
  but this was so powerful for me.
• 2:34
  I will make mistakes and I often be wrong
• 2:36
  while I'm perfectly imperfect.
• 2:37
  And I'm only here to learn
• 2:39
  and all the evil on the path gets burned.
• 2:41
  I said, I am perfectly imperfect.
• 2:43
  I'm only here to learn.
• 2:44
  And all the evil on the path gets burned.
• 2:46
  I listened to that over and over and over again,
• 2:49
  because the more I listened to it, the more I got free.
• 2:53
  Yeah, there's a reason why I said it twice in the song.
• 2:55
  Yeah, I wrote that one was like, say it again.
• 2:58
  Yeah, say it again.
• 2:59
  So thank you so much for the work that you're doing.
• 3:01
  Thank you.
• 3:02
  Excited about your tour coming up.
• 3:04
  The 10-year anniversary of the story of you,
• 3:08
  song I am, you know, story of you,
• 3:12
  remember jaw, this transformative album
• 3:16
  and a transformative time in your life
• 3:19
  that you put into song
• 3:21
  that's now the butterfly effect
• 3:24
  creating massive change.
• 3:25
  Like if you did nothing else, true.
• 3:27
  And that's all you did.
• 3:28
  There's a lot more to this story.
• 3:29
  There's a lot more dark times and different challenges
• 3:32
  that have created new music for you.
• 3:34
  But the end of the day, man,
• 3:35
  I'm gonna now shut up and let you start sharing
• 3:39
  about this journey and this path.
• 3:41
  It's beautiful journey that you've been on.
• 3:43
  Yeah, it's crazy.
• 3:44
  It doesn't, it's weird.
• 3:46
  Because a lot of those songs I wrote,
• 3:48
  you know, the album was released 10 years ago,
• 3:51
  but all those songs were wrote.
• 3:53
  They were written 12, 13 years ago, you know.
• 3:55
  Yeah, as far as that lyric,
• 3:57
  I just, it's crazy to me that I am took off.
• 4:00
  Because one, I don't really remember writing the song.
• 4:03
  I remember like the time I was in.
• 4:05
  And I just had a lot of fear around,
• 4:07
  you know, pursuing music is a scary thing.
• 4:09
  Like the odds that it's gonna work out are slim to none.
• 4:13
  And I think I kind of wrote that song as myself
• 4:16
  to just like,
• 4:18
  one, encourage me to stay the path,
• 4:20
  but two, to do it in integrity.
• 4:23
  And it's funny,
• 4:25
  you know, over the years playing those older songs,
• 4:27
  like they've continued to kind of evolve
• 4:29
  and change meaning for me.
• 4:31
  And that one, especially like even that line,
• 4:33
  just hearing you read that,
• 4:34
  I'm like, you know, I'm by nature,
• 4:35
  I'm super hard on myself.
• 4:37
  Yeah, and I just, you know,
• 4:38
  I did make a lot of mistakes
• 4:41
  and didn't do things the best way that I could have.
• 4:43
  Yeah, but I told myself that I would.
• 4:45
  So like, right, as you were reading that,
• 4:47
  I was like, yeah, bro, but you knew you,
• 4:49
  you know, you knew you wouldn't do it perfect.
• 4:50
  Yeah.
• 4:51
  So yeah, it's just, it's a weird time for me right now
• 4:53
  going into the 10 year tour.
• 4:54
  Because I'm not just reflecting on that record.
• 4:56
  I'm reflecting on,
• 4:58
  you know, the life that's been lived before it.
• 5:00
  And it feels like I'm kind of,
• 5:02
  in a way, I was talking about this with my friends last night.
• 5:05
  In a way, it kind of feels like this tour is kind of closing this,
• 5:08
  you know, like I'm closing this old journal.
• 5:12
  I'm putting it over here and then I was starting a new journal.
• 5:14
  It's beautiful.
• 5:15
  Yeah, but to close it, I have to go play them.
• 5:17
  I have to go play all of these songs.
• 5:19
  You know, play this record in its entirety all over the world
• 5:21
  and then we can close the journal.
• 5:23
  It's powerful.
• 5:24
  Like, even in this song, you say, we're holy,
• 5:26
  I'm holy, I'm sacred.
• 5:27
  It's what I say.
• 5:28
  I'm holy sacred, I'm registered and true.
• 5:30
  And I deserve to be here and so do you.
• 5:33
  So powerful.
• 5:34
  Like, when you have your church,
• 5:37
  your concerts, church, people scream that.
• 5:41
  I mean, they scream it because so many people don't feel they deserve to be here.
• 5:47
  So many people feel that they're unrighteous, that they're wrong.
• 5:50
  They've been beat down by schoolteachers.
• 5:53
  They've been beat down by parents.
• 5:55
  They've been beat down by religious leaders.
• 5:57
  Even Christianity, LDS, right, told,
• 6:01
  squished down, if you don't do it my way, you're not holy.
• 6:06
  You're going to go to hell.
• 6:08
  And being Catholic, that meant a lot to me.
• 6:13
  I'm like, you know what?
• 6:15
  I am.
• 6:16
  I've been made holy.
• 6:17
  I am righteous.
• 6:19
  How I live my life is true.
• 6:21
  Instead of having that just constantly thinking that you're not good enough.
• 6:26
  You're not a good enough friend.
• 6:27
  You're not a good enough father.
• 6:29
  We got to hear that over and over and over again.
• 6:32
  I'd love that we could discuss like,
• 6:33
  I wish Malachi was on this tour because that's another song that racks me.
• 6:37
  Racks me if you have it.
• 6:38
  That's one of my favorites.
• 6:39
  Listen to Drew's stuff and you have children Malachi is just,
• 6:44
  it's on my playlist, especially when I'm praying and meditating.
• 6:47
  So full circle.
• 6:51
  You've also gone through some darker times, even post that.
• 6:54
  You have this beautiful album.
• 6:56
  You understand that you're perfectly imperfect.
• 6:58
  Yet you're still on this path.
• 7:00
  You're still figuring things out.
• 7:02
  Deeper levels of that onion of your past,
• 7:05
  which I can't wait to talk about and learn more about you.
• 7:08
  This is our first time.
• 7:09
  We're actually actually got to sit down and talk heart to heart.
• 7:12
  So let's talk about some of those darker times.
• 7:14
  Because I know that everyone knew you,
• 7:16
  like that album blew you up.
• 7:18
  It gets a powerful album that puts you on the map.
• 7:22
  And then you came out with flowers from the fray.
• 7:26
  But that wasn't, that was the one that you were a little more,
• 7:29
  like you're people going to like this one.
• 7:30
  Because it's a little darker.
• 7:31
  Yeah.
• 7:32
  I wouldn't call it dark in my opinion, but yeah.
• 7:34
  And storm chaser too.
• 7:36
  But yeah, you know, yeah.
• 7:37
  And flowers from the fray, there's a lot of,
• 7:39
  you know, the music industry's hard.
• 7:41
  I feel like I put a lot of intention into what I put into the world.
• 7:46
  And I feel like there is a lot of,
• 7:50
  the vast majority of artists don't, you know.
• 7:52
  The thing is like making a good sounding,
• 7:56
  pleasing thing.
• 7:56
  And actually, as I get older, I think there is more of a place for that.
• 8:00
  I understand it now than I'm older.
• 8:01
  You can do both, yeah.
• 8:02
  And, you know, I just wasn't seeing the growth that I thought I would see.
• 8:06
  And then I also kind of felt whether it was real or perceived this kind of,
• 8:11
  this pressure to like shut up and play the hits, you know.
• 8:14
  And I was writing these really deep songs that weren't about,
• 8:17
  necessarily about self-improvement and spirituality and stuff.
• 8:20
  It was just kind of me writing about what I was going through.
• 8:24
  And, yeah, that was a very,
• 8:27
  that was a very different record.
• 8:28
  I made it in the cabin and a cabin in the middle of the woods with one other person.
• 8:31
  And what followed that record was like the darkest,
• 8:34
  you know, one of the darker chapters of my life.
• 8:36
  I relapsed after 10 years of sobriety and
• 8:40
  went through a divorce and, you know, it was like the craziest.
• 8:44
  I kind of, I feel like I called it in,
• 8:46
  making that record, I called it in.
• 8:50
  You know, and everything worked out great.
• 8:52
  I'm the happiest I've ever been.
• 8:53
  But it's amazing.
• 8:54
  Like you step back into darkness and you had something else to learn.
• 8:58
  And you didn't frickin know it.
• 9:00
  You didn't get it the first time around.
• 9:01
  What's like we were talking about downstairs.
• 9:03
  You know, it's, you know, I've had a few chapters of that sense.
• 9:08
  And I think I wrote, I journal when I was journaling the other morning.
• 9:13
  I wrote, we tend to learn the best when our heart hurts the most.
• 9:17
  You know, like when things are going really well,
• 9:19
  we don't listen to God quite as well.
• 9:21
  Because we're like, what everything's wonderful.
• 9:24
  But it's when you're, you know, on your hands and knees,
• 9:29
  you know, feel like your heart's falling out of your chest.
• 9:32
  That's when we start asking really good questions.
• 9:34
  You know, how did this happen?
• 9:36
  What do I need to change so this doesn't happen again?
• 9:39
  If we're not in that flux of self-evaluation,
• 9:43
  we feel like we arrived.
• 9:44
  I don't know how many times the bottom has fell out in my life,
• 9:47
  where it's like, oh, you know, I'm doing everything right.
• 9:53
  When I was a Christian in church, I had all the kids following me.
• 9:57
  They parade me around the church, like warn you're impacting so many lives.
• 10:01
  And then God speaks to you and says, if you think you've got to figure it out,
• 10:05
  there's something coming your way very soon that's going to teach you.
• 10:09
  Like you haven't hit a home run.
• 10:10
  There is no home runs in life.
• 10:12
  And then I get sick and the bottom falls out.
• 10:15
  And everything I believe to be true is completely wiped out.
• 10:19
  My faith is wiped out.
• 10:21
  My health is gone.
• 10:23
  You know, I can't even be, be nice anymore because my hormones are so off.
• 10:27
  Like I'm just mistreating people.
• 10:28
  I'm 210 pounds.
• 10:30
  I was an all-American athlete.
• 10:31
  The bot, that was how this all got born, right?
• 10:35
  That's how my journey came from sickness and despair and suicidal thoughts
• 10:41
  to end my life because I was so sick.
• 10:44
  And different, but similar, you know?
• 10:47
  I know that, you know, you've slit your wrists before that's suicidal.
• 10:51
  You've done these things, drug addiction.
• 10:54
  In fact, people that loved you sat you down and said,
• 10:57
  dude, you're going to kill yourself if you don't change your life.
• 11:00
  Yeah, I think, I think I knew, I always felt like, you know,
• 11:05
  there was a time there when I was younger.
• 11:07
  You know, before I left Chicago, I like,
• 11:10
  the last year, it wasn't like,
• 11:13
  wasn't having fun anymore.
• 11:14
  You know, it was like pretty intentionally self-destructive.
• 11:19
  Yeah, I knew that there would be an end.
• 11:21
  I didn't know what that end would look like or what would come from it.
• 11:25
  But I was just talking about that last night with my friends as well of this.
• 11:32
  Usually, that's where the real us is born.
• 11:35
  He's in those, lose everything.
• 11:38
  Everything I thought that was real isn't real.
• 11:41
  You know, a relationship that you really were betting on or a business that you were really
• 11:45
  betting on. If you do it right, if you go through it right, you know, it typically in that
• 11:51
  darkness, like, we'll shine a light on the place that you're supposed to go.
• 11:55
  And I've not just seen that in my own life, but I've seen it in everyone's life.
• 11:57
  Like, most people close to me have a story like yours where it was like, everything was fine.
• 12:02
  And then, boom, and then everything got 10 million percent better than they would have ever
• 12:07
  even, you know, could have ever even imagined they'd like start living a dream because of the fallout.
• 12:12
  Yeah, you were talking about Trevor Hall, you know, the same thing, you know.
• 12:15
  So many people, so many people, I've seen so many people in my industry go through these just
• 12:20
  like, egregious things that are just not fair, you know, these just bureaucratic industry things.
• 12:27
  And then they come out of it and you think, like, most people, I feel like go through that.
• 12:30
  And they're like, I wouldn't, I don't want anything to do with this industry.
• 12:34
  So Trevor said something to me one time that, you know, I was like, how do you deal with this?
• 12:38
  And I don't want, you know, I'm going to go into all his stuff, but he just just like,
• 12:42
  because the thing in me that creates, the thing that God put in me that creates, like, no one can touch
• 12:46
  that. Like, the thing that's in you that creates no
• 12:52
  lawsuit, no illness, no anything can touch like that thing that's inside of you, you know,
• 12:56
  that thing that's like at the core of your soul. Like, I believe we all have that. And you know,
• 13:02
  when we find our calling, that's where we get to amplify that thing. I needed to hear that today.
• 13:06
  Yeah. I needed to hear that today because I feel like that's the decision I'm making.
• 13:11
  Yeah. Right. It's like, trust all these bad things happening to me and people taking advantage.
• 13:16
  And I'm like, you know what? I say it verbally a lot, but I'm starting to get it is that
• 13:23
  my heart, this special thing within me that really gives a
• 13:27
  I usually would say, fuck, people get mad about that thing. But I just want to be, I want
• 13:32
  my, that little boy's heart that was kind and sensitive, that broke up fights, that wanted to
• 13:37
  bring people together. I want that little boy out again. Yeah. And, and I'm not going to suppress it
• 13:44
  with my dad saying, punch the kid in the face, you know, beat the shit out of people that hurt you,
• 13:49
  you know, get, you know, get vengeance for the bad things that they did to you.
• 13:55
  Yeah. It's funny. My dear friend Brady was just having that conversation with me. You know,
• 14:01
  because of the way I was raised with just a lot of physical abuse, you know, it just changes,
• 14:08
  you know, and chaos outside of my house too. It was just a lot of violence and a lot of chaos.
• 14:14
  And I was just having that conversation with my fiance. And then about that, I was like,
• 14:21
  I was such a sweet kid. And then at some point, this like shift happened where I was like,
• 14:27
  I just believed the world was attacking me and my brother. It's like, you know, the world is
• 14:32
  trying to kill me and my brother. That's the only logical conclusion I can come to.
• 14:36
  So then you change this other gears. It's like, okay, well, I need to get safe.
• 14:40
  And I look as an adult, the way that manifested is, you know, I used to be 145 pounds.
• 14:45
  So it's like, I'm going to be big. And I'm going to learn how to fight.
• 14:50
  You know, so for the past 12 years, I've dedicated my life to essentially put a bunch of
• 14:56
  effort into being more dangerous in the name of hopefully feeling more safe. Yeah. And you're
• 15:01
  hard to kill. Very hard to kill. Yeah. You know, like for me, that idea of being dangerous
• 15:06
  is a means of being safe. It's funny that you worded that. It's like that little kid, you know,
• 15:11
  my friend Brady was just saying that like, dude, you let him come out now. Like everything's
• 15:17
  cool. Man, nothing's happening anymore. Like you're safe. Let that little kid come out and explore
• 15:22
  a little more. So right, as you were saying that, I was just like, man, that's so funny. It was like
• 15:26
  five days ago. And he's my, as my closest friend, he's, you know, he's going to officiate my wedding
• 15:31
  in August. But he worded it that same way. He's like, you need to just let that kid out now. Like
• 15:36
  everything's safe, bro. Like a promise. No one sees you and is like, I'm going to
• 15:39
  fuck that guy. Yeah. You're totally safe. Just you can be that little kid now in full force.
• 15:43
  You know, let him out and let that kind of be the guide. And I have been, you know, like I've been
• 15:48
  forcing myself, I just made a post about this where I'm like, giving myself new data to pull
• 15:55
  from because the old data says, if I go into unfamiliar territory around people, I don't know
• 15:59
  something bad probably is going to happen. But I've been doing that a lot recently, you know,
• 16:04
  like if I get invited to go hang out, like I just went hang out, hung out with this band,
• 16:08
  the elevators. And I usually, I'm like, I don't want to hang out with another artist. Like I'm
• 16:12
  cool. And it was, you know, I hung out with him for a couple days and ended up being like the
• 16:17
  most fun I've had hanging out with other adults in years. And I'm like, so grateful that I was like,
• 16:23
  you know, we went and hung out, hung out with him in the hotel lobby and they're like, you should
• 16:25
  come up to Boseman, come hang out tomorrow and sit in with us. And in my head, I'm like, yeah,
• 16:30
  I'm not going to drive all the way to Boseman to hang out. And my fiance is like, why do it? Let's
• 16:35
  do it. That'd be so fun. I could be good for you. And we went. And it was just that's a good thing.
• 16:39
  Yeah, super good. She pushes me out of my comfort zone and proves to me that I'm safe. And then I
• 16:43
  went and, you know, one of my favorite people that I've met, Jackson, the lead singer of the elevators,
• 16:48
  like we just hit it off. And he's like one of my favorite people that I've met in years.
• 16:52
  You know, and that relationship wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't have made that friendship if I
• 16:56
  wouldn't have gotten out of my comfort zone, you know, there's science behind this too, especially
• 17:00
  men, because whatever the psychology of our evolution, we want to protect and especially on our
• 17:05
  family. And just like you said, I have my four kids, you know, I have all this stuff going on,
• 17:09
  you know, we're, we're trying to take care of the family. And that puts us into that fight or
• 17:14
  flight parasympathetic state. But if you get around other males, the research shows you actually
• 17:19
  calm down, because you don't have to perform your, your, your safe. It makes you get into your
• 17:25
  sympathetic nervous system. So sometimes like for me, I just got reinvited that same mastermind
• 17:31
  that changed my life where I met Esther Perrell and a bunch of other people like my first entrepreneurial
• 17:36
  mastermind, like get together. And then I don't have time to tell the whole story. I went up doing
• 17:41
  the same thing. I cried the whole time that time. I cried most of the time this time. And I probably,
• 17:47
  if I didn't go to that mastermind, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you. And you know,
• 17:52
  my heart just got lit again. Like I got to lean into that little boy. I got to lean into the fact
• 17:56
  that I can help other people that are in integrity that have a great mission and message. And I get
• 18:01
  to help them. That's my new motivation to do nontoxic dad nontoxic living. My whole motivation now
• 18:07
  is to make this platform big. I didn't have a big enough reason to continue it because it's
• 18:12
  such a pain in the butt. It's so much work. It's so hard. But I learned so much. And when I went
• 18:17
  there and it's I get to help people with integrity and it doesn't matter what the outcome is,
• 18:22
  as long as I'm doing it for legacy and for the right reason. What a bigger fingerprint you can
• 18:27
  leave on the world than the frequency of your music that'll live on forever. So if I can put that
• 18:33
  same frequency like you have in your music and I believe that I do in the words that I'm saying
• 18:38
  that it's going to reverberate just like what's the movie gladiator? Are my words are going to
• 18:46
  reverberate through quantum into history. And it's kind of neat that I get safe when I'm in those
• 18:56
  environments and I'm away from my family, which I literally am in tears when I have to leave them.
• 19:01
  I have three beautiful little girls. There's nothing more that I want to do is hang out with my kids.
• 19:05
  And I always go places and don't want to leave them because I feel like I'm missing out.
• 19:11
  I feel like that I'm letting them down. I need to be around. I need to help my wife
• 19:16
  and see the stress. And then I go away. She's like, just like your fiance said, you need to go.
• 19:22
  My wife told me, you need to go to California. You need to go book that flight. I did it
• 19:29
  and last minute change my life. We wouldn't be having this conversation. It's beautiful.
• 19:34
  Yeah, it's cool how how interconnected everything is. I'm a big fan of that butterfly effect thing.
• 19:40
  It's like we were talking about before too, like most of the time it's bad.
• 19:45
  Or like, man, when we're in the thick of it, you know, you're never like, man, I'm so glad that I'm
• 19:50
  so heartbroken and shattered right now. But it's like at the other end of it every single time,
• 19:56
  you know, once we're removed from, once we're through the emotional weight of it, we almost
• 20:01
  always go back and like, I have no idea who I'd be had I not gone through that.
• 20:06
  I think that's one of the things you say. And I think this would be great for people. So
• 20:10
  a lot of people get mad about this. But if it wasn't for my pain, I wouldn't be who I am today.
• 20:14
  But then you have to sit with the fact that you're abused as a child, right? So how do you balance
• 20:19
  I'm glad this happened to me and someone saying, but where's the accountability? You're abused.
• 20:24
  Where's the justice? How do you balance I'm saying? It's right. Yeah. I'm saying what happened
• 20:28
  to me is right. I'm saying that I wouldn't be who I am had that not happen to me and I love who I am.
• 20:33
  Yeah. You know what I mean? You're perfectly imperfect. Yeah. So it's like, I don't, maybe I don't
• 20:38
  write these songs if that didn't happen to me, which means I don't mean my ex-wife, which means
• 20:44
  I don't have my son, which means I then don't mean my fiance, which means I don't have this vast
• 20:49
  insane community of friends that I have. So it's like, if I followed the tale all the way back,
• 20:55
  yeah, there was nothing about it that was right. I didn't deserve it. And maybe I'm wrong.
• 21:01
  My therapist would say, she always challenges that narrative. You know, like maybe you would have
• 21:06
  turned out, you know, maybe it would have even been better had it not happened. I'm like, I don't
• 21:10
  know, but it did happen. And here we are and everything's pretty dope. Yeah. So, you know, I'm okay.
• 21:15
  I'm good. I think for me, the big, the phrase that I always use that was like a huge shift for me
• 21:20
  was that life isn't happening to me or at me. It's happening for me. Amen. So it's like, I just,
• 21:27
  I really trust God's plan. And if I pray for strength, he's not just going to make me strong. He's
• 21:34
  going to give me opportunities to get stronger. If I pray for patience, he's going to give me
• 21:39
  opportunities to be patient. So it's like, I just trust that whatever that plan is whatever's
• 21:45
  in front of me is what a it's an open, open book for me to learn from, you know, and try to stay
• 21:52
  in that. Well, I think that if you don't, you atrophy, right? If like, if we don't work out,
• 21:58
  we get weak. And spirituality is the same thing. And spirituality, I believe, evolves. And I think
• 22:03
  this is going to be new topics. Like, probably what you believe, there's a Catholic and I see
• 22:10
  Catholicism evolving. I see being here in Salt Lake, LDS evolving. I see the Christian community
• 22:18
  evolving and they don't want to talk about it. But we evolve, you know, from that, from the pain,
• 22:23
  from the learning. I have friends that would be like, you know what? I'm going to question
• 22:27
  what that dude told me from the pulpit, right? And maybe there's a little bit more to the story,
• 22:35
  you know, of who I am, the story of you, the album. Like, what is my story? What is my purpose?
• 22:41
  And I think that I like to call it the, you know, things are happening for me. They're not
• 22:48
  happening to me. They're happening for me. So what what is allowing it to happen for me? Right?
• 22:53
  So what is that? What is that frequency? And I like to call it the quantum Jesus. I think even when
• 22:58
  I'm being disciplined for my mistakes, I feel like it's wrapped in a pillow of love when I'm
• 23:03
  getting the crap beat out of me. I feel like it's beating out of me, something that needs to go out.
• 23:08
  So I can have a higher level of freedom, a higher level of connection, not only to God, but to my
• 23:13
  family. And it's like it's being ripped out because it's an old belief structure that was
• 23:18
  holding me back. And at one point, created safety made me secure. Like, woo, if I think outside
• 23:23
  of this box, if I question that, I'm going to go to hell. But then you get the courage to question
• 23:30
  it. It's painful in the question because you just realized that everything you believed could have
• 23:36
  been a lie, but then it makes you stronger. And, you know, then you write a song about it. It
• 23:41
  changes other people's lives. So it's pretty beautiful, man. This transition that we were talking
• 23:48
  about, like you being feeling like more safe. The lyric, again, in the song, I am highly recommend
• 23:55
  you guys check it out on Spotify, Apple Music, wherever music is, is distributed these days.
• 24:02
  But I love this verse as well. I call it a verse. It's like a Bible.
• 24:06
  Part of a verse. Yeah. When I think about the demons I have slayed, I am not afraid of
• 24:10
  confrontation and vain to people that seek evil. I'm not essentially not as peaceful as I look,
• 24:16
  but I'm a warrior at heart. Super caution must be took. I love that because I'm like, that's
• 24:21
  where I said, don't f with Drew. Yeah, don't play with me. Don't play with me. And that's important.
• 24:27
  There's having that strength being hard to kill. But you took this journey to Nepal. I don't know,
• 24:35
  we're doing back country skiing. I don't know why you were going there. I want to go climbing. Yeah,
• 24:39
  you want to go climbing. And that didn't happen. But when I read your bio, that was the first time
• 24:47
  you felt safe. And you dropped into a sympathetic state. And there was a transition and a story that
• 24:53
  came from that. Can you share that with me? Yeah, well, try and make a full circle and come back
• 24:58
  to that verse. So for me, when I went to Nepal, I went just as a mountaineer. I was super into
• 25:05
  rock climbing and mountaineering and Alpine skiing, all of that. And Nepal is the mecca. You know,
• 25:11
  if you like mountains, that's the place to go is the Himalayas. So I went there, you know, there's
• 25:17
  this village called Kenjoma that I had seen pictures of and I had all these huge boulders
• 25:23
  like placed around the village. So not the whole reason for the trip, but at least 70% of the
• 25:28
  reason for the trip was I was like, I'm going to go to this village and I'm going to set up,
• 25:32
  I'm going to put first routes on all of these boulders in the Himalayas. For whatever reason,
• 25:37
  that was really important to me because you get a name on them and then I can make like a little
• 25:40
  guidebook and then I would be the guy, you know, that a thousand people knew about that put up
• 25:46
  these first routes on these damn boulders. Well, I get there. The rocks are covered in like
• 25:50
  and you can't climb on the rocks. They're not, you know, I was smart enough to ask like, hey,
• 25:55
  can I scrape the like and off these rocks and they're like, no, no, you can't. So I figured out
• 26:02
  pretty quick that my trip wasn't about any one destination or because every village is the same.
• 26:07
  It's a tea house and I'm in a monastery. There's not really much to it. That the trip is the walk,
• 26:15
  you know, and on those walks, I was just thinking about my story thus far. Like, how does a kid from
• 26:22
  where I'm from with my story end up walking through the Himalayas? You know, what the hell?
• 26:30
  Yeah. Why am I here? How did this happen? And then about halfway through the trip, it was like,
• 26:36
  what after this? You know, like, all right, dude, I think I was 24. So it was like, okay,
• 26:41
  you're kind of approaching that age where you should at least start being aimed at something, you know?
• 26:45
  Like, so what's the, what do you aim at? And it just kind of hit me on that trip. This one day,
• 26:50
  it's like, it's music. It's the exact halfway point of the trip. So it's like, I'm going to go
• 26:55
  home and go all in on it. And, you know, I was always very influenced by Eastern thought and all
• 27:01
  of that. But, you know, as far as those lyrics, yeah, bro, don't play with me. Like, I'm cool.
• 27:09
  I'm loving. I'm kind. I'm super respectful. I'm very self-aware. You know, I'm not ever in the way.
• 27:15
  I'm not rude. So if you're playing with me, like, that's on you. You're doing that. Yeah,
• 27:20
  it's on you. Yeah, I'm not doing that. I will protect my peace at all costs. I'm a very respectful
• 27:25
  person. Yeah. So I demand that respect because I'm not ever out acting crazy. I'm not ever being
• 27:31
  mean or disrespectful. So I have a zero tolerance policy. Like, I just have a zero tolerance policy
• 27:38
  for meanness or disrespect or, you know, malicious intent. My friend, Matt said, if you have
• 27:47
  malicious intent, there's no discussion to be had. We have no business to attend to, no
• 27:53
  relationship to attend to. If you have one ounce of malicious intent, you're not allowed in my
• 27:58
  zone. And I just, I protect that because I for a long time, I couldn't. I didn't have a say in
• 28:04
  my environment. Now I do. So I think it's a, it's an important tool for I think everyone to hear
• 28:10
  and I'll put my spin on, you know, what that, what that means for me is that when someone has
• 28:16
  malicious intent towards me, I'm allowing it. Right. So I think people understand that you're
• 28:22
  allowing abuse in your life. You're allowing it. It's not their fault. You're allowing it to happen.
• 28:27
  You're not putting a stop up because of fear. And we teach people how to treat us. So maybe,
• 28:32
  maybe you're moderately disrespectful at first. And I don't say anything. Yeah. So I'll stop the
• 28:37
  behavior. Then you get comfortable there. Yeah. And then you'll keep, you'll keep trying to find
• 28:41
  where the boundary is. So my boundary's way out here. Yeah. I'm not even going to let it touch me.
• 28:45
  My boundary's way out here. It's too sacred. Yeah. And Curtis Jackson, he said something I really
• 28:51
  like one time, I don't ever want a problem. But if you have a problem, no problem. Yeah. I'm
• 28:58
  I'm good either way, man. I would prefer to just chill and there's no problem. But if there's
• 29:04
  a problem, no problem, I can handle problems, you know. And I just, I spent too much of my life
• 29:10
  not having a say. I was scared my entire childhood. And I didn't ever have a say in my environment
• 29:15
  or how I felt. I didn't get a stand up for myself. I didn't get a set boundaries. I didn't get a
• 29:21
  say. This is what I want. And you know, as a grown man that's done the, the, the work is it is
• 29:29
  that continues to do the work. I do have a say now. And I do get a set boundaries. And
• 29:34
  these are the kind of people I'll allow around me. And these are the kind of people I won't.
• 29:38
  I love it. Yeah. That's not mean. That's not violent. That's not anything. It's just like, no,
• 29:43
  I got to, I'm protecting my heart and and my girl and my child. Like, you know, I got to keep
• 29:50
  the area clean. I got to keep it not toxic. Yeah. I mean, one of the, I mean, one of the greatest
• 29:56
  toxicities is the relationships we allow in our life. And I like to even say it's good for them
• 30:02
  because if you allow that abuse and them to get that dopamine spike from abusing you and taking
• 30:08
  their bad energy and you're receiving it all the time in their frequency and it's destroying you,
• 30:13
  the best, if you want that person to change the best thing you can do is not allow them to put
• 30:17
  that energy because now that's going to give them accountability to their behavior because I don't
• 30:21
  even know that they're doing it because most people are abusive, but they don't even know they're
• 30:24
  abusive. What do you mean? You know, they never learned, right? What do you mean? I'm being mean.
• 30:28
  I'm just telling you the truth. Like, no, not really. You're being abusive. Yeah. That's why
• 30:33
  interventions work, right? Like the first step of the intervention, right? If you've ever seen
• 30:38
  that show, if you're not familiar with interventions, how it kind of works is a specialist comes in and goes,
• 30:42
  okay, Warren, well, you let this dude stay at your house. He's addicted to heroin. You let him
• 30:47
  stay at your house and you keep giving him money. So like, I know you're worried about him,
• 30:51
  but by you letting him stay here and giving him money, you're keeping him a heroin addict. So
• 30:56
  the most loving thing you could do is say you can't stay here anymore and I can't give you any more
• 31:00
  money, right? It's in these ultimatums. That's what happened with me was people around me that
• 31:07
  used drugs and alcohol sat me down and were like, no more. Like, if you don't accept help because
• 31:15
  help was arranged, my biological father works at a rehab in Billings, Montana and he got me a bed
• 31:23
  and him and my mom talked for the first time in 20 some years and he's like, I got him into
• 31:26
  the rehab. You get him the plane ticket. So I had agreed to go to rehab during this intervention
• 31:32
  is like, yeah, I'll go. Yeah. And then they're like, well, you leave tomorrow morning. I was like,
• 31:37
  well, then I'm not going. I thought we were like, yeah, I thought I'd have some time to mess around
• 31:42
  a little longer, but that's why the intervention works because essentially what it does when boundaries
• 31:48
  are created like that is I have to look around at all these people that love me, that I love and say
• 31:55
  either everyone here is crazy and lying and there's a conspiracy against me or I do indeed have
• 32:06
  a drug problem. And if there's eight people that all have the same story on the only one pushing back
• 32:12
  on the narrative here, it's probably because I got a drug problem. You know, it's probably not a
• 32:16
  conspiracy. It's because I have a drug problem. You know, that truth, man, that's all it is. That's
• 32:22
  all boundaries are. I'm just telling you the truth. And there's people who I love. You know,
• 32:28
  there's one cat in particular that that I think of when I think about boundaries. I love him so much,
• 32:35
  but you can't be an active part of my life. Yeah. You have tendencies that make you toxic to me and
• 32:41
  maybe not to everybody else. But there's like a lack of self-awareness there that I'm like,
• 32:48
  your liability, bro, I can't have any liabilities around, you know. Yeah, you become who you hang
• 32:53
  around. I think it's an energy thing. I think it's an aura thing. Yeah. Like the more I look at it,
• 32:58
  even you pick up on language patterns. I mean, I don't want to be around anyone that isn't going to
• 33:04
  challenge me to become a better human. Here's a good one for you, Ro. So I forget where I heard this.
• 33:08
  You're the sum total of the people you spend the most time with. Right. When I first heard that,
• 33:14
  I thought about like, okay, who are the... We'll take my girl out of it. My son out of it.
• 33:19
  Who are my closest friends? Who are the boys that I spend the most time with?
• 33:24
  My friend Will, phenomenal leader, amazing martial artist, beautiful mind. One of the smartest
• 33:32
  dudes I know. My friend Drew, he's an 84-year-old and a 24-year-old body. If you met this studio,
• 33:38
  you would blow your mind. It's one of the deepest, most beautiful human beings I've ever met.
• 33:42
  I'd love to meet him. My friend Brady. I'll make that introduction. I love him.
• 33:46
  Oh, my friend Brady. Deep, deep, deep, deep, stoic motorcycle riding philosopher. You know,
• 33:54
  I'm just like, oh, I'm cool, dude. Like if I'm the sum total of those three dudes,
• 33:58
  like I'm awesome. I'm doing great, you know. But I think that's the thing you got to audit
• 34:03
  yourself. It's like the thing we were talking about, right? It's like that... I love the non-toxic
• 34:09
  dad because what's funny is like, I do this whenever you read the Bible too. I like take things
• 34:13
  differently. Like when I hear Jesus tell the lady, the lady at the well, you look thirsty. I'm like,
• 34:18
  damn, bro. I put it in the 2025 contact. So it's the same thing. When you talk about like auditing
• 34:26
  your environment for toxicity, my brain doesn't go to like, well, what am I drinking out of?
• 34:31
  Yeah. My brain immediately goes to like, my hanging wife. Who is around me right now, you know?
• 34:37
  Because that man, that for me is so important. And that little kid, you know, when we're kids,
• 34:42
  we don't get a say. We just got to sit there and whatever environment we're born into.
• 34:46
  And then it becomes normal. And for me, it was survival. Yeah. I remember really early on, man.
• 34:52
  It's so funny. I'm in like, I'm in some deep right now. Like I'm in deep, deep work right now.
• 34:56
  Let's share it. Yeah, just with this little kid of me, you know, and coming back to these memories,
• 35:01
  you know, I just have a lot of memories of being my son's age, you know, and getting hit
• 35:08
  for no reason, you know, and being in my room and just like closing my eyes and picturing myself
• 35:13
  as an adult and just, man, I can't wait until I'm grown up. Like I won't have to deal with this
• 35:19
  anymore. And I knew I was going to be a good dad. I knew I was going to be so good to my kids,
• 35:23
  you know? I think for me as I've gotten older, I'm finally, it's digging through that stuff that's
• 35:29
  making me softer. I think the initial phase is I need to get really, really hard. So nothing
• 35:33
  ever hurts me again. And now I'm like, but not that hard, bro. You know, not that hard.
• 35:39
  You know, my son plays such a huge role in that softening in my girl too. But
• 35:44
  then my kids change my life through my best teachers. My wife was my first best teacher.
• 35:49
  I met and married my wife and under three months. Yeah. And there was no, we didn't have sex
• 35:54
  before then. Like it wasn't like we got pregnant or anything. It just like I knew and we got married.
• 35:59
  It was a hellacious first year. My first best teacher. And then having children, best teachers
• 36:04
  ever, all those childhood things come out how I respond. I'm like, really? But your music once
• 36:11
  again, forgiven myself quickly, you know, I'm perfectly imperfect. You know, like I'm still,
• 36:16
  I'm still good. I'm still a good person. You know, but I have these habits, but I have to
• 36:20
  break through that stuff. And it's getting more into my heart, getting softer. Like as I age,
• 36:26
  I'm 51 years old when someone says, what is what is your number one goal? I would just hit this
• 36:31
  master. What's your number one goal? Getting a more sensitive heart, getting more connected to God.
• 36:35
  So I can be more connected to my family. So I could be more connected to nature. All the
• 36:39
  that matters. Like that's what I care about. And it's neat that you have a, you know, you're moving
• 36:44
  in that similar direction. You remind me a lot of that movie about Bruce Springsteen. Did you watch
• 36:48
  that? Oh my gosh. I mean, in that movie, he, he was getting hit for no reason. That was
• 36:54
  the alcoholic and, and like a boxer too. And was like beating him up. And then he was just trying
• 37:00
  to, was working through all that trauma and went into his music. And he was just like fanatic about
• 37:04
  it. And he recorded these songs in his home with a, like a junk recorder. Yep. And then he went
• 37:11
  to the, with his agent and the recording in the studio. I was like, I freaking hate it. I freaking
• 37:14
  hate it. It's like, it's got to sound like this. This is the story. And he had born in the USA. And
• 37:20
  you know, like all these other things. He's like, I don't, I don't want to.
• 37:22
  When he made Nebraska. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great record. It's one of my favorite records. Yeah.
• 37:26
  So Nebraska. That was what flowers from the Fred was for me. Yes. Yeah. So I, that was the
• 37:31
  connection. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. My, my friend Bill, who's the owner of Side One Dummy Records.
• 37:37
  When I was making the record, I sent it to him to get his opinion. And that was, that was so
• 37:42
  funny. You just referenced that. He goes, yeah, this is your Nebraska. He goes, you just made
• 37:46
  this huge production album that you put out with our label. And everyone's like, okay, well,
• 37:50
  it's next. He's going to make something even bigger. And I was like, no, like if you listen to
• 37:55
  that record carefully, you can hear the fire crackling in the background at times. It's crazy.
• 38:00
  But you did it for you. I made that record for me. That wasn't for anyone else. Yeah. And then
• 38:04
  if people like it, which people do like it, you know, like a few of the songs. Yeah. It's funny.
• 38:08
  You know, when you're like, you know, I don't know if it's your favorite song. All of my favorite
• 38:13
  stuff hasn't been released yet. You know, I'm working on a new record right now that's almost done
• 38:16
  that will release probably next fall. It's interesting. When I made that album culture,
• 38:22
  I've never been that excited about a record. I was like, this is going to be spent 40 grand of my
• 38:26
  own money to do it. Could have worked with a label. And I was like, no, like I'm going to,
• 38:30
  I want to make all the money on this. You know, I want all the return on this. And
• 38:34
  there's a song on it called Breathe that's done pretty well. That's what no other, none of the other
• 38:39
  songs on that record popped. And that's the only one. If I have like a really long drive,
• 38:44
  like I got to drive the van all the way home where I'm meeting the bus somewhere or something
• 38:47
  that have a really long drive, I'll listen to that record front to back. And I still am like,
• 38:50
  man, it was so good. Why didn't people like this one, you know? But yeah, it's interesting as an artist,
• 38:55
  because the story about the story of you that's crazy to me is it was recorded with my friend Carl
• 39:04
  on like a hundred dollar microphone with a hundred dollar interface on Garage Band.
• 39:08
  We didn't know what we were doing. Carl kind of did, like Carl had recorded music before,
• 39:12
  but recorded music with a hundred dollar interface and a hundred dollar microphone.
• 39:17
  So we didn't, you know, the drum tracks aren't real drums. They're like, you know,
• 39:21
  it was made me and Carl just in this tiny little room in my house in Red Lodge.
• 39:25
  That record to me was like, I just need to give them something. I need to have something to show people
• 39:31
  you know, when we're trying to book a tour or trying to tell people what I'm doing. I have to have
• 39:36
  something to give them. So that was what the story of you was to me. I wasn't like, I didn't think,
• 39:42
  like, these songs are all really awesome. It's like, these are the ones I got right now.
• 39:46
  Now, it's like Metallica's first album or, you know, or it's funny. That's it's so funny.
• 39:52
  That's how it works. And you just every single song, just like you can just every single song.
• 39:57
  It's awesome. Yeah, which is so funny to me, because I just did a tour in Hawaii and I hadn't
• 40:03
  played thrill of it all in six, seven years. And I was like, oh, I'll play that. I mean,
• 40:09
  I got to play it for the tour. So like, I'll play it in Hawaii and see if, you know, like,
• 40:12
  see how that feels. And I would like, start it. And I would say that first line. And everyone
• 40:17
  would start cheering. And I was like, oh, yeah, you guys like this? Like, that's so funny to me.
• 40:22
  Like, I forget that people listen to that record, you know? Yeah, it's so wild to me because I
• 40:27
  put out so much music sense, you know? I feel like that is nontoxic that I'll pour my heart into a
• 40:33
  video. Like hours and hours way more than I should. And it goes nowhere. Yep. And then
• 40:39
  something that I'm just like, I'm just going to go to Costco and shoot a bunch of videos and
• 40:43
  just talk like a normal guy and like whatever. It'll suck millions and millions and if not hundreds
• 40:48
  and millions of views. I think people can tell I think it's just more authentic when we're not trying.
• 40:53
  Yeah. You know, I think coming from your heart. Yeah, because it's just like, to me, that's
• 40:57
  what's cool about podcasting is this. There's this. These are just long form conversations. And
• 41:02
  there's, you know, we'd like to touch base on these things, but it's pretty loose. And no one
• 41:07
  really knows where it's going to go. And to me, that's like when the cool stuff happens is when
• 41:11
  there's not like an agenda. And like, you know, the only thing on the agenda for the story of you
• 41:17
  was like, record your 10 favorite songs right now. Like of all of the songs you've written up to
• 41:24
  right now, you know, pick your 10 favorite and record them so we have something to show.
• 41:29
  And did that. And here we are. And it took a while too. It was weird. Like, it kind of sat for a while.
• 41:37
  And then two years later, I went on tour with Michael fronzy and that was when it, you know, tell that
• 41:44
  story. You were like dead broke 37 bucks in your wallet. So beyond broke. So we, we had played with
• 41:52
  Nako at this venue in St. Pete. I haven't got to play it since the show. And it's like one of my
• 41:57
  favorite venues in the world. It's called Janus live. It's like outside. But how it's set up is
• 42:03
  it's like, there's these buildings that kind of horseshoe this stage. And then the green rooms,
• 42:08
  like the backstage area are upstairs. And there's a balcony. So we got asked to open for fronty
• 42:17
  at these shows. And then my manager was like, Hey, I see that you have two other four to
• 42:21
  shows. Could we do all three of them with you? So you had to have a cry. I didn't have a credit
• 42:26
  card yet. But you had to have a cry. I don't even know if I think I might have had a checking
• 42:31
  account. Yes. You literally got there on like $37 or something. Yeah. So what happened was you
• 42:37
  had to have a credit card to rent a vehicle. So I rented one. I rented the like a Chevy spark.
• 42:43
  Like, you know, like the most. They're off the market now, probably. And but because I had to pay,
• 42:50
  because I had no credit, I had to pay $500 for this credit card. I didn't know that. So like,
• 42:54
  I agreed to this credit card, took $500 out of my bank account. So there's only, yeah, $34,
• 42:59
  $37 in my bank account. So we went down there, get this rental car. And the only reason I did it was
• 43:06
  because I was like, the green room, there's a balcony. Like he's not going to hang out in his
• 43:10
  green room. It's January and Florida. It's going to be 70 degrees out. He's going to come on the
• 43:14
  balcony. He's going to watch us. And he's going to fall in love with us and want to take us on tour.
• 43:18
  Yeah, yeah. And that was kind of what I thought happened, you know, because like after we did those
• 43:23
  three shows, we get the call. It's like, hey, he's doing a whole nationwide tour because that was
• 43:30
  January, February. He's like, hey, he's doing this whole summer tour, you know, from like May to
• 43:35
  September. And he wants you for all of them. It's like holy **** it works. I later found out that
• 43:41
  the reason that he did that. He's like, yeah, the music was all right. But he, when he was walking
• 43:46
  back across this catwalk to get to the green room, he saw me standing in the middle of the street
• 43:50
  handing out CDs for free. And he was like, I'm going to help this brother. I'm going to help this
• 43:55
  dude. See? Yeah. Well, one of the reasons you're here. I know. You posted something on your
• 44:01
  Instagram. And it's like, man, I've dumped every last penny, almost every last penny into this
• 44:06
  new tour, you know, get some tickets. My wife didn't read that. Just was thinking of playing your
• 44:14
  music. And I read that. And I'm like, I'm reaching out to that guy. I'm going to do whatever I can
• 44:20
  to help bring this, this healing message that this calling card, the story of you album that
• 44:27
  just meant so much to me, like literally transform my life. You don't know how I mean, you're my number
• 44:32
  one playlist on Spotify. Love that songs. Number one, like over and over and over again. And I'm
• 44:39
  successful dude. Yeah. Right. Think about it. Like I have a beautiful family. I come through sickness and
• 44:43
  pain and loss and I'm a solid human. But what you had in that album was what I needed to go to the
• 44:49
  next level. Yeah. And it doesn't matter where you're at. You could be have your best life and not
• 44:55
  realize you're missing this heart connection. You're still judging yourself. You're still doing
• 45:00
  things to your soul that that aren't meant to be. You're still hanging out with people that are
• 45:05
  wrong. And those stories of you just processing your life journey is same process I need to go
• 45:14
  through. And they could be the person that's ready to commit suicide that needs to know their
• 45:18
  holy sacred and righteous and true. Yeah. Those stories are so crazy to me. Like that was it's funny
• 45:25
  because I say like, you know, it was beyond my, you know, I didn't have a plan. And what's funny
• 45:32
  is there's a song on that record called life goes on last summer when we were talking about
• 45:36
  doing this 10 year anniversary tour. My manager has been talking about it for two years. He's like,
• 45:40
  I can't wait. Dude, it's going to get some dough back. You know, like you're going to it's going to
• 45:44
  good. It's going to be sick. But me and Greg were talking about it. He's like, when is the last
• 45:48
  time my tour manager? He's been my tour manager forever. He's like, when's the last time you listen
• 45:52
  to that record all the way through? I was like, Oh, I won't, you know, like I'm no interest in
• 45:57
  listening to it. He's like, what's this a duo, bro? So we're on a drive and we listen to it and
• 46:02
  life goes on. Came on and I was like, started crying because I was like, Oh, this is me. I was
• 46:07
  saying everything I was going to do how I was going to help people. What this music was going to do.
• 46:14
  I laid it all out, which is funny because I didn't realize that and tell 10 years later. I was
• 46:19
  listening to it was like, Oh, this was my manifesto. And then rehearsing it for this tour, I haven't
• 46:25
  played it yet and not teared up because I'm just like, you know, what the hell is success? If
• 46:30
  not this, what is success? I did exactly what I said it was going to do. And what's a trip as my
• 46:35
  daughter was eight years old at the time and she sang on that song with me. And now the 10-year
• 46:41
  anniversary tour, she'll turn 19 on the tour or 20 on the tour. But she'll be with me on the tour.
• 46:47
  Oh my gosh. I don't have your little girl with you on your tour. I start bringing my daughter to
• 46:51
  like events and speaking things so she can see. It's just like, and then what it does is like,
• 46:57
  Oh, that's why you sacrifice. Look what you're doing for these people and how much like it's not
• 47:02
  about, you know, you leaving home and yeah, I'm not out filing TPS reports, dude. Yeah, it's not
• 47:08
  just trying to help the world, you know, it's not fun. I pour my heart out. I leave exhausted and
• 47:12
  wiped out because I'm helping people. I'm shooting videos. I'm doing podcasts. You know, when I go
• 47:17
  to an event or you go on tour, my whole goal is to add value and see people's life transformed.
• 47:23
  That's why it's so nice when I go to a mastermind when people pour into me. I'm like, I'm not helping
• 47:28
  them. I feel like God has a spotlight on me. I'm going to fill you up. But anyway, I just think
• 47:35
  it's so special that your daughter's with you. Yeah, it's cool. She's pretty stoked about it.
• 47:40
  She's gotten really into photography and stuff. So that's going to be her job for the week is to
• 47:46
  to get content and stuff like that. But yeah, it's just special. It's a crazy thing to look to look
• 47:51
  back at that song, you know, and the fronty era. Like I said, it's just the story so far.
• 47:59
  And it feels like not that I'm not ever going to play these songs again or anything like that,
• 48:04
  but it just feels like this tour is like the this honoring process of like honoring the story so far
• 48:12
  and then putting a lot of it to bed, putting a lot of it behind me and moving, moving forward.
• 48:17
  Yeah, the hard times. Yeah, I know what you're saying because you look back and
• 48:22
  it's that's who I was and that's the healing I needed. But there's a there's the next level of who
• 48:29
  I am because I've healed from that stuff. Yeah, and this new record, this record that I'm working on
• 48:33
  right now is going to move. Well, I always say this and my wife says this too. It's like,
• 48:39
  if you wanted to sell out, you're talented enough to make all the money you want in the world. And
• 48:44
  I've seen this on your Instagram, on podcasts, on stage, and you're just you're not going to do it
• 48:50
  because it's not a I mean, not to say you're not going to, you know, get a record deal or whatever.
• 48:55
  But I love how you like, no, I'm going to do the music. This is this is my church. This is my
• 49:01
  healing. I'm going to do it my way. And I always want to do it my it's like, yeah, I just want sacrifice
• 49:06
  the importance of what I'm doing for money. Like, money comes, that would be great. I could
• 49:10
  always use more money. Nothing wrong with money. Nothing wrong with money. If it comes if it's
• 49:14
  because you back value to the world. Yeah, but I'm not going to I wouldn't change. I wouldn't try
• 49:19
  to disrupt or alter the channel. Yeah, it's a frequency. Yeah, it's the it's the quantum.
• 49:25
  Yeah, and I've you know, there was a time when that conversation was had with me.
• 49:30
  It's happened more than once by, you know, more powerful people, whatever industry people
• 49:37
  kind of pointing to that thing. Like, hey, man, if you would just
• 49:42
  kind of shoot it down this lane like consistently, just give us like two years of just making this
• 49:49
  thing like it the world's your oyster. I'm like, yeah, but I don't I don't know who I'm going to be
• 49:55
  in two years. I don't know. I'm going to be in six months. And it might feel like coming out of my
• 49:59
  mouth. Yeah, I might not want to make music that sounds like that. I might feel like making a
• 50:04
  damn bluegrass record next year. I don't know yet. I know love about you know, so like your music is
• 50:08
  all over like story of you. Yeah, yeah, then it's over here and it's like, what's next?
• 50:12
  Then I made two Americana records and then released 12 hip-hop songs. Yeah, I don't know what's next,
• 50:16
  man. What lane did they want? The reggae thing seemed to be the you're good at that. The safe lane.
• 50:22
  Yeah, so I made a reggae song, a folk and fun at reggae songs,
• 50:27
  called summer song in response to that. Yeah, no, the music that I'm working on right now is my
• 50:32
  favorite stuff that I've ever made. So it's like, I'm also in this weird struggle to try and stay
• 50:37
  present right now because it's like I was I was rehearsing the other day and I was like, man,
• 50:41
  I really don't want to go play all these songs anymore. And then you were true creative. You're
• 50:46
  like you're an entrepreneur musician because we that's the old stuff. Now I want to I want to create
• 50:52
  something. Yeah, I'm almost done with this new record and I listen to it every day and I'm just
• 50:56
  like, God, this is dope. But this voice, you know, this voice chimed in the other day. I was like,
• 51:02
  man, I don't want to play. I was like, well, you better get real comfortable because you got
• 51:05
  two North America tours and entire Europe tour festivals like you're going to be playing these
• 51:09
  songs. I'll bunch this year. So get comfortable. And then it just kind of shifted my perspective
• 51:16
  into this like, I don't have to go do this. It's like, no, you're going to go honor this thing.
• 51:19
  I brought you everything you have because the reality is I wouldn't if I had not made that record,
• 51:26
  like the way I was I've been able to provide for my family and for myself is like beyond my wild
• 51:32
  extremes. You know, I didn't grow up how my kids grew up and my kids grew up the way they grew up
• 51:38
  because people love this record. So it's like, it's made me the past few weeks practicing it.
• 51:46
  I've like found this place of reverence for it rather than resentment because I feel like
• 51:52
  there is this perceived thing like I said earlier, you know, of this like, hey, play the old stuff.
• 51:58
  You don't care about the new stuff, play the old stuff, you know, and that always bugged me.
• 52:03
  And now it's like, okay, well, no, all right, I'll play the old stuff intentionally. I'm going to play
• 52:07
  it intentionally. And some of these songs will be the last time I play them for sure.
• 52:12
  Now, you're you're you're a different cat. You're in your heart. You do. Yeah, I'm not 24.
• 52:17
  No, I'm not that kid. What I think is beautiful about it though is the shift that you have
• 52:21
  and then it is up, I mean, it churns for my life, right? On a boat and it's like this timeless
• 52:27
  right on a boat and and the Wyoming, you know, and Wyoming on the Wyoming green river.
• 52:34
  And there's your music speaking to my soul exactly what I need to be here curated by my buddy Adam.
• 52:41
  And it did that for so many people. And now you're able to go on tour and have that.
• 52:49
  It's going to it's going to multiply. Yeah, what I sure hope so. I hope that it brings people
• 52:54
  to the new stuff. The other thing I'm excited for is like, I've never gone to a show with knowing
• 53:00
  that a band was going to play all my favorite songs. You know, like I mean, my fiance Parker
• 53:07
  went and saw my favorite punk band, the story so far. We went some in Denver. I was like a little
• 53:14
  teary Taylor Swift girl the whole thing because every song I'll be like, no way. They just kept playing
• 53:19
  all of my favorite songs back to back. So the one thing that I'm kind of stoked about with this tour
• 53:25
  is just for fans because I'm a music fan too, you know, so for a fan to get a come to the show and
• 53:30
  be like, I know he's playing remember. I know he's playing. I'm I know he's playing thrilled of it all.
• 53:35
  I know he's you know, they know I'm playing everything on that record. And I've I've never gotten
• 53:39
  to go to a show where I was like playing. I know he's playing my you know, like so when we're here,
• 53:46
  whenever you're we've been to every event you've been here in Salt Lake since I've been introduced
• 53:50
  to your music. And when that comes on the energy just shifts. Yeah. They're like, come on guys,
• 53:55
  my other stuff is good too. Yeah. No, it takes people to church, which is cool because that's my aim.
• 54:00
  You know, I was just I've had that conversation with other friends of mine that are in the same line
• 54:04
  of work as me. And I used to like, I guess I look at even friends of mine that sell way more tickets
• 54:10
  than me. It's just kind of hit me because I used to maybe not jealousy, but there was always kind of
• 54:17
  that I think as an artist, it's normal, maybe an entrepreneurship. It is too of this comparison.
• 54:22
  Yeah. Why does this do really well? But this thing that I do isn't doing as well, you know.
• 54:27
  I do it all the time. Yeah, it's just kind of like, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just our nature.
• 54:30
  Yeah. And we were on tour with a band called the hip abduction. Yeah, I saw their stuff. Yeah.
• 54:37
  I I didn't I personally didn't love it. I didn't decide. I didn't like I just couldn't wait
• 54:43
  for you. Yeah. Yeah. So that's I I love I love that band. And I just like you more.
• 54:52
  Yeah. Well, I watched their show. So we did the tour in too many LEDs. The blue light.
• 54:56
  Yeah. It was just funny because it gives me like a headache. I'm like, there's too many,
• 55:00
  you know, that's a lot of blue light guys. I mean, you're into consciousness. I mean,
• 55:03
  when I told David, I was like, man, I watched your show. I need to up my game. And he's like,
• 55:10
  that's funny, bro. This is the first night of the tour. Yeah. I was like, man, I watched when I
• 55:14
  watched you guys a set. I'm like, I need to up my game. And he's like, that's funny, man,
• 55:20
  because I watched your set. And I was like, this is a reverend, bro. We're out here playing a
• 55:25
  concert with flashing lights. Like this, do you just took all these people to church? It's not
• 55:29
  crying in here. Like he was like, I've never that's a whole different thing. And I'm so grateful
• 55:35
  that he shared that with me because I was like, Oh, I don't have to do it. You do. I don't have to
• 55:39
  do what he does. I'm like, it's my thing. My thing is my thing. And my thing is special. Just like
• 55:44
  your thing is your thing and your thing is special. You know, I just was so impressed with the hip
• 55:49
  abduction show. Like there's a part where the lights go crazy and he's playing the drums with
• 55:53
  his drum. Oh, yeah, it is good. It's super dope. And I was like, man, we should do some cool
• 55:56
  stuff like that. And he's like, no, dude, you come out and grab everyone by their heart right
• 56:01
  away. Like we're throwing a party for everyone. Like that's what most bands do, right? We're like
• 56:05
  raising a vibration of the room. He's like, dude, you come out and just grab everyone. And I'm
• 56:10
  like, I'm really leaning into that is my role is like, uh, that's what I want to show us to be.
• 56:17
  It's church. That was why I named the band Satsang. You know, it was like the whole idea about
• 56:21
  what is what does Satsang mean? So I can mean a couple things. Like the direct definition is in
• 56:26
  the company of the highest truth. That was why I named the band that was I saw that. And then
• 56:31
  it's also like a verb. So Satsang is like in Hindu traditions, people would gather. And then
• 56:38
  it's essentially a Bible study. That's it's a Bible study where we're okay, we're all going to
• 56:43
  read this same thing and then we're going to discuss it with the goal being to distill it down
• 56:48
  to the ultimate truth of what is this text that we're reading me? And I was like, what a cool
• 56:54
  metaphor for what a concert could be. You know, like, okay, guys, we're all going to stir in this
• 56:58
  thing together, but the ultimate goal here is spiritual truth. You know, like, what is that in every
• 57:04
  single person in this room? And can we all tune into the same thing? And you can. And you can for
• 57:09
  sure. Yeah. Music is the only thing that I've, that I've seen, you know, even at, even at churches,
• 57:15
  you know, you go to these big churches and you're like, it's not the sermon that's making, well,
• 57:19
  the sermon's always the part that makes me cry because I'm a thinker. But for the most part,
• 57:23
  it's the music, you know, that's what like, do you know what I connected to God and gave my life,
• 57:28
  you know, was from a song. Yeah, it was good. I could cry thinking about the song was to the Holy
• 57:34
  Lamb. Great. I am lover of my soul, Prince of Peace, King of Kings. Do some of the worship songs
• 57:38
  slap the one hell could never hold righteous son, faithful one, the soon and coming King
• 57:44
  to the Holy Lamb, the great I am. Yeah, lover of my soul. And I'm just like, it was the love.
• 57:50
  Oh, it will get you, man. Yeah. And this, this wave of love just came over to me and I just
• 57:55
  wept. But for me, holy like I had, it was a spiritual war. There's this thing saying, get the hell out
• 58:03
  of here. These people are nuts. This song is nuts. This is all BS get out and this other song,
• 58:10
  this other voice in my, in the back of my mind was going, or my heart, I love you. I love you.
• 58:17
  And I said yes to that. Yeah. Life changed. Yeah. Heart is hell. Yeah. Got sick afterwards. Yeah.
• 58:23
  Well, I got, I wasn't sick at that point. I was not sick and all the things. But if it wasn't for
• 58:31
  that spiritual anchor of knowing that I was loved. And here's the thing, I lost it through religiosity
• 58:38
  over time. I went away from this voice of love that loved me thinking that I needed to do all the
• 58:43
  right things and be the perfect person and not swear. I didn't swear. Cheese don't get
• 58:50
  about that. No, what was he offering? What's the, what's the, what's the calling card of Christ?
• 58:54
  Why are people so drawn to it? It's love and grace. Yeah. Love grace forgiveness. Because every
• 59:00
  single walking, breathing human being needs that more than anything else. We need love.
• 59:06
  We're all fallible by nature. We can't undo what was done in the garden. So by nature, we are
• 59:12
  fallible. I'm going to make mistakes. You're going to make mistakes. So we need forgiveness.
• 59:17
  And then what do we need it to walk and all of that? We need grace. Can I give you grace?
• 59:23
  When you fumble, will you give me grace when I fumble? Can I give myself grace when I fumble?
• 59:28
  That's it. The rest is man made stuff. You know, the church builds, tries to build behavioral
• 59:36
  tendencies, you know, throughout of context means. To me, my boy Brian says this to me all at the
• 59:44
  time. Like if the word of God is true, we shouldn't be warning everybody. We should be celebrating and
• 59:50
  singing. So people like, Oh, you're a Christian. I'm like, uh, celebration Christian. Yeah.
• 59:57
  What's it's hard because that that the word aligns you with these people. But for me,
• 1:00:02
  that's the thing is like, it doesn't. It's the same thing. You know, it's this doing away with
• 1:00:07
  group identity. I think group identity is what continues to culturally put us in trouble. Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  White people, this black people, this is Christian. Yeah, it's like, no, dude, these are individual
• 1:00:18
  human beings with different experiences, different opinions, different parts, different challenges.
• 1:00:23
  You know, so it's like, yeah, wrote to me, like when someone's like, I'm a Christian, I try to,
• 1:00:27
  that like that, to me, that doesn't implicate you. Yeah. I'm like, you're not responsible for what
• 1:00:31
  the church has done. When someone's like, I'm a Mormon, I'm like, you're not responsible for
• 1:00:35
  all the wheels. We're shit. This happened in the Mormon church. You're an individual person with
• 1:00:40
  your experience. Please tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, open your heart to me. I'll open
• 1:00:44
  mind to you. You and I are on the same page. I love that. You know, yeah. This journey.
• 1:00:49
  Because we're all bunch of individuals. The group thing is where it gets messy. That's why churches
• 1:00:53
  get messy because it becomes a group identity rather than a bunch of individual relationships with
• 1:00:59
  God. I go out and pick daisies for my mom and I'm talking to God about how I'm like, he's like,
• 1:01:04
  I just love you. I just love you. You just like, I love you. You're, you're such a good boy, you know?
• 1:01:08
  No. Those conversations then you get into like all the stuff and even after you have that spiritual
• 1:01:15
  moment and then you're like, well, I better read my Bible every day now. I better do this. I
• 1:01:19
  better do that. I better go to church on Sundays. I better sacrifice and start getting up at 5 a.m.
• 1:01:24
  And I did all that. I better start a men's group, which was awesome, by the way. But when I got sick,
• 1:01:28
  I couldn't do any of that shit. None of it, bro. Like sound sensitive. You know, couldn't have
• 1:01:34
  people over to my house because I was so sick. My nervous system was so trashed. So all that
• 1:01:38
  the good works taken from me couldn't be there for anyone because I was too sick. Move home,
• 1:01:44
  parents basement, mold, blah, blah, blah, just family wrecked, swearing at God.
• 1:01:52
  Didn't commit suicide because I felt like he had a reason for it.
• 1:01:56
  Well, if you've read the Bible, there's not a single story in there that's easy. Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  I think about that all of the time. That's what I feel like with this new record. I just keep
• 1:02:05
  thinking about Elijah and what's funny is every important character in the Bible. Like David said,
• 1:02:13
  I want to be king and he wasn't like, Oh, sick. Okay. When you're old enough, then we'll make
• 1:02:18
  that happen for you. No, bro. No, we got to go through the trials and tribulations to become
• 1:02:22
  who we're supposed to be. And to me, that to me, that is spirituality in a nutshell. It's like,
• 1:02:29
  I either believe in this divine plan, even the bad shit, even the illness, even the everything
• 1:02:34
  that I thought was supposed to be mine has taken from me. I either believe in this divine timing and
• 1:02:39
  plan that is so much greater than me and my grasp or I don't. And life is chaos and everything's
• 1:02:47
  meaningless and it's not happening for me. And it's not happening for me. Everything's just
• 1:02:51
  happening at me. And that sucks. Absolutely. Yeah. I just don't think so. And I think if anything,
• 1:03:00
  I think people that are supposed to be useful and powerful at least in the Bible, we see them
• 1:03:09
  humbled a lot humbled first so they can be servants, right? A servant king, not just a king.
• 1:03:17
  A lot of people don't make good kings. It has to be a servant king. A king means it's the people
• 1:03:23
  and then me. These people rely on me to sing good works, to not make bullshit, right?
• 1:03:31
  So in that process, there was a long lineage of humbling for me in my story or I wouldn't have
• 1:03:38
  these songs. I wouldn't get to carry these songs the way that I carry them. Your whole thing
• 1:03:44
  wouldn't have happened without this great humbling. But I did all of the things that you said.
• 1:03:47
  I didn't say that. You said that. You said that's what you wanted. And for me, that's the thing
• 1:03:55
  that I'm letting go of so much. I said this on my friend's podcast a while back. My daily prayer
• 1:04:01
  right when I wake up is just gratitude. Thank you so much for another day. Thank you for letting me
• 1:04:07
  wake up. My deeper prayer is please escort me into whatever is meant for me. Nothing more,
• 1:04:14
  nothing less. Give me what is meant for me. It's a scary thing to pray for. Not please give me a
• 1:04:21
  number one single. Please let me make four to five million a year doing me as I click some of my
• 1:04:26
  friends do. No. Put me exactly where I'm supposed to be to execute what you put me here to execute.
• 1:04:33
  That's what's meant for me. Help me show up for that and the best, the best drew ever.
• 1:04:39
  Help me be the best drew ever when I'm showing up for your plan for me.
• 1:04:43
  We're similar, bro. I mean, that's the only way I can pray. I don't have nothing else to really
• 1:04:47
  pray for. I'm like, yeah, thankful. And then creating me a more sensitive heart so I can connect
• 1:04:54
  with more people, connect with my wife, connect with family. That's all I care about. You know,
• 1:04:58
  it's like nothing else is nothingness. It's not about stuff. It's not about money. It's just more
• 1:05:02
  responsibility and more problems. And you're taking care of more people and you need leadership
• 1:05:06
  skills, which is stretching in order to have more impact. So you need to have leadership skills.
• 1:05:11
  You need to stay humble. You need to empower other people. You need to let them know that
• 1:05:15
  they're brilliant loved. They have talents. And it's in it's hard because we're working with
• 1:05:20
  humans who come from different perspectives. But I've landed on the same thing drew just like,
• 1:05:25
  it's all I care about just being thankful and showing up each every day and just growing
• 1:05:33
  and getting more connected. Well, I think what's interesting too is the guy sitting at the bus stop
• 1:05:37
  wishes, you know, sees a bike go by. That's damn it. Shut a bike. The guy in the bike sees a
• 1:05:42
  Nissan goes by. Damn, I wish I had a Nissan. The guy in the Nissan sees a Porsche. Dang, I want to
• 1:05:48
  you know, it's like, yeah. And it's the, I've seen it so much in artists.
• 1:05:54
  You know, when you're starting out and playing in the bars that are playing for nobody,
• 1:05:57
  I couldn't even envision like, there was a time of my life where like,
• 1:06:02
  if you were to tell me a hundred people would come to a show on purpose, I'd be like, what?
• 1:06:09
  A hundred people in some random city like, that's crazy. Yeah. You know, we do better than that.
• 1:06:15
  And then I have friends that sell a couple thousand tickets a night and they're already
• 1:06:20
  aimed at what's next. And a big thing I learned when I was on that tour with fronty, I was so worried
• 1:06:26
  about what was next. I wasn't really present for any of that stuff. And it was so cool. I went
• 1:06:31
  from playing for nobody to playing these like historic theaters with one of my favorite artists
• 1:06:36
  of all time. And I was so worried about what was next. I didn't really enjoy it. So it's like,
• 1:06:42
  I'm trying to just enjoy each process. And you know, my, my ex-wife's dad, I remember he said,
• 1:06:51
  when I first started touring, he goes, hey, you know, when you're out there in the van and no
• 1:06:56
  one's coming to shows and you're just grinding it out like, you're going to look back on these days
• 1:07:02
  as the good old days. Tears me up thinking about it. It's like, you're going to, as hard as it's
• 1:07:07
  going to be, you're going to wish more people like your music, you're going to wish that, you know,
• 1:07:11
  things were bigger, you were making money. All of these things, but I promise when you are making
• 1:07:16
  money. And when the business is successful and everyone likes your shit, you're going to look
• 1:07:22
  back and go like, those were the days, man, when we were in that, yeah, when we were in the van,
• 1:07:26
  like all of my funniest tour stories are from the story of you era, where we didn't have a trailer,
• 1:07:32
  it was just us in a van and this like shitty plywood divider that we put the gear behind, like
• 1:07:37
  those are all of the most ridiculous memories, you know, driving eight to 10 hours every single day.
• 1:07:43
  Yeah, it's like a solitary confinement, but you have two cellmates, you know, so like,
• 1:07:48
  you kind of go crazy together, you know, and it's so funny to look back on and reflect on it.
• 1:07:54
  And he was so right. So I'm like, if I can look back joyfully at a time when I was broke,
• 1:08:02
  stuck in a one row van with two other dudes, so like, can I be happy in a smaller version of a
• 1:08:13
  tour bus selling three to 700 tickets and I everyone singing every word, my bills are paid.
• 1:08:22
  I don't look at price tags when I'm at the grocery store. Like, can I be happy in this phase?
• 1:08:25
  Like, when when, you know, is it not until I'm a millionaire? Is that one I'll be like, okay,
• 1:08:30
  now we can breathe. It doesn't work. No, and because that's it, right? Everyone says the same thing.
• 1:08:34
  Everyone gets to the next level and is like, man, this doesn't feel like I thought it would feel.
• 1:08:38
  Now there's even more stress. Yeah, I mean, we have this nice house and me, my wife, we
• 1:08:42
  we loved it more in our 1500 square foot condo. We went from there to this a beautiful home.
• 1:08:49
  It's a super sick home. Yeah, and yeah, super sick. But I didn't get it because I wanted a nice
• 1:08:55
  home. It was just, it was a good, good decision. I prayed about it. Like, I didn't, I don't desire,
• 1:09:01
  I didn't desire a big home. I don't, you see my truck. It's paid for. It's 18 years old. Yeah,
• 1:09:06
  that's not what drives me. And it drives some people. That's fine. That's their path or journey
• 1:09:10
  because they have a different origin story. But for me, we're very similar that way. Like, me,
• 1:09:15
  my wife, we loved our times in the struggle way more. I mean, we love our life now too. But we
• 1:09:22
  were fond. It was so simple. We were forged there. Well, when I first started making money,
• 1:09:26
  and I'm not rich by any means, but when it, when I first started making residual income because
• 1:09:30
  people were listening to the story of you, all of the things I wanted when I was a kid, I started
• 1:09:34
  getting, like I always wanted cool shoes. And I was a kid. I never got to pick my shoes out.
• 1:09:38
  My mom, my mom. I got the bass boat that my dad wouldn't get, right? Yeah, I always wanted a
• 1:09:42
  bass boat. And I bought a bass boat. Yeah. Well, now I would give 15 years ago, you know, I have
• 1:09:45
  probably 20, 30 thousand dollars worth of shoes. And if someone came and was like, I'll give you
• 1:09:49
  $5,000 for all of them. I'd be like, thank you so much. What a deal. Get these the things that
• 1:09:53
  out of my house. So it's funny. Just last week, me and my fiance were having that. I was like,
• 1:09:58
  baby, if this record blows up, if this next record blows up, and we start doing two, three thousand
• 1:10:04
  people a night, we're not leaving this house. I just bought this house. It's, you know, her sons
• 1:10:11
  will be gone in five years. Malachi will be gone in 10. I'm like, let's just stay in this house.
• 1:10:16
  Like, it's perfect. It's homey. It's got a cool vibe to it. Like, we don't need any more room.
• 1:10:21
  It's got a fence yard. We can keep getting dogs. Like, I just him over, but I had to buy all of the
• 1:10:28
  shoes and all of the designer clothes and all the bullshit before I was like, oh, yeah, this doesn't
• 1:10:31
  make me happy. It doesn't change anything. Now I just am sad and a cool outfit. Now I'm just sad
• 1:10:39
  with cool shoes. Don't be sad and a cool outfit. Yeah, that's a song. The reason I don't get a new
• 1:10:44
  truck is my, my wife's like, when I get a new truck and my kids want to get a new truck, is like
• 1:10:48
  my four-year-old just drew a heart with a rock on it when we were on a trip to Glacier National Park
• 1:10:53
  with our friends and we're driving out and grabs a rock and puts a heart on it because I'm like,
• 1:10:57
  because that doesn't upset me. Yeah. If I have this fancy truck, I get a hundred thousand
• 1:11:02
  dollar truck. Yeah, I'm going to be, I'm going to be heartbroken. So I invested into a camper on the
• 1:11:08
  back so that I can create experiences and go go fishing with my buddy Adam again and we've done it
• 1:11:14
  every year since that year's every year. We've gone in every year. I come back a better human
• 1:11:19
  and now I'm sleeping in a back in my truck instead of in a hotel where it's moody and toxic and I have a
• 1:11:25
  control. Dude, and just like, man, the thing that hit me as I was just like, when I'm lying on my
• 1:11:32
  deathbed, I'm not going to be like, dude, do you remember that Japanese denim kimono that you got?
• 1:11:38
  That was sick. No, I'm going to be like, do you remember when you and your son washed that sunset
• 1:11:43
  and cooked city? It's like, that's the currency, dude. It is the currency. That's the currency, dude.
• 1:11:48
  I don't care about anything anymore, you know? Like, I want to make art that matters that changes
• 1:11:53
  people's lives and I want to be a good dad and a good husband. Whatever else is meant for me,
• 1:11:58
  dude. Like, hopefully it comes. Yeah. You know, but like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm stressing
• 1:12:04
  like I used to because my son's so good, dude. My girl is so good. Like, we're just good. Yeah,
• 1:12:11
  I don't need nothing. I don't need anything else. I say the same thing to my friends. It's like,
• 1:12:17
  you know, I'm in a really good spot when it's like, and I've gone through a lot of challenges,
• 1:12:21
  financial ones, all the stuff, business breakups. And I said, it doesn't matter because I have
• 1:12:26
  everything that matters. Do you see my wife do hang out with her? Do you see my children? Like,
• 1:12:31
  why would I ever made want anything else? Because everything else could go. And if I, and I have
• 1:12:38
  such a connection with them, I'm still lit. I wake up every day like it's freaking Christmas to see
• 1:12:44
  my wife to hug her and see my three little girls. It is Christmas every day to me, bro. Yeah,
• 1:12:50
  it's good every day. I recognize that because for me too, you know, and I have bad days, I just
• 1:12:54
  have so much debt from my business. It's such a caching cash out. And tours, unfortunately,
• 1:13:01
  you know, you put 40 to 80 grand spent before I even play the first show. So you're kind of
• 1:13:07
  just going out there like, I hope it come. Yeah, you know, like if they don't. And there's going
• 1:13:12
  to start buying tickets because of this. I hope so, you know, and we're doing good. I'm sure this
• 1:13:17
  tour is going to do awesome. Joey Harkham is a stud and he's opening and people are just excited
• 1:13:21
  about the 10-year thing. But like, you know, for me, it's just like, I just have felt as a business
• 1:13:29
  owner, like I just can't get my head above water. It's just like, okay, we'll play this tour,
• 1:13:35
  that'll crush, and then I'll pay off these two credit cards. And then it's like, oh, hey,
• 1:13:39
  you know, there's this change in self-employment tax. So now your taxes are going to be like, mother,
• 1:13:43
  it's just there's never ending like for me, if I was debt-free, like that really on a like
• 1:13:48
  worldly goal sheet, that's really the only worldly goal I have. Because if I was making what I
• 1:13:53
  make right now and just didn't have any debt, I'm chillin' dude, you know, and I know it'll happen
• 1:13:58
  and it'll be fine. But it's hard and that was kind of what that post was about was I think people
• 1:14:04
  in the entertainment industry in particular, especially in music, bands want to look like they're
• 1:14:09
  killing it. You know, that's kind of the whole thing is even if you're not fake it and make it look
• 1:14:17
  like you are. And you know, me and my manager had had to talk that day and he's just like, I'm so sick
• 1:14:24
  of it, man, I wish people would just be honest because we were just, I was telling him, I was like,
• 1:14:28
  you know, I'm trippin' because I had to buy this vinyl, which I forgot about. So I had bought flights
• 1:14:33
  for these upcoming shows in North Carolina next month and I buy them and I get a text being like, hey,
• 1:14:38
  you're approaching your credit card limit. I was like, no, I'm not. Who do you talking about?
• 1:14:43
  So I call and I'm like, hey, what is going on? They're like, oh, yeah, there's a $6,800 charge.
• 1:14:50
  I was like, it's got to be fraud. You know, what's the name of the company? So I look up the name of
• 1:14:53
  the company and it was for the vinyl. We're doing a vinyl release of the story of you and I was like,
• 1:14:58
  oh, yeah. You know, I'm going to buy that. Yeah, a bunch of people are. So it's like, I know I'll
• 1:15:05
  get it back. But it's just it was, you know, by supplements, I put, this isn't cheap. You know,
• 1:15:12
  it's all the. I spent a lot of money on my body every month, but you know, he was just like,
• 1:15:17
  tell them, dude, none of these artists will tell them. Like tell them what it go, tell them what
• 1:15:22
  goes into making a tour. So I just made that post like, yo, you guys, you know, I, the reality
• 1:15:29
  of this business is every single tour I'm starting 40 to 80 K in the whole. And I don't know if I
• 1:15:36
  get it back. That's all I'm literally betting on you guys, not even betting on myself. I'm
• 1:15:42
  literally betting on you guys that you like this shit enough that you're going to come. It's a
• 1:15:45
  scary gamble. And I do it three to four times a year, you know, that you do tour a lot. Yeah.
• 1:15:52
  So it's like, it's a super scary thing. And I just wanted to be transparent because I feel like
• 1:15:56
  the industry really lacks that. I feel like artists don't want to say that like, yeah, do it over.
• 1:16:02
  Credit cards are maxed out because we had to buy merch. We had to reserve a bus. We had to
• 1:16:06
  no one wants to talk about it. Everyone's like, no, we'll just, we'll just wait and then we'll
• 1:16:10
  get some perfectly angled footage at the first show. So it looks like we're just, you know, killing it.
• 1:16:15
  And you know, for whatever reason that night, I was like, no, I'm going to tell them, I'm going
• 1:16:20
  to tell them, dude, I'm tripping over here. Please come to the shows. You know, like, then,
• 1:16:24
  and then people you'll sell more tickets because people are like, oh, you know, even if I don't go,
• 1:16:29
  I want to support, you know, my friends and people, well, you reached out, you know, and a lot
• 1:16:34
  of people were just like, I haven't, I won't look at ticket counts anymore because it used to just
• 1:16:38
  stress me out. So I'm just like, because my job doesn't change, you know, whether there's 100 or
• 1:16:43
  700, yeah, I still got to go play. So it's like, I'm not, it is whatever. I'll find out that day,
• 1:16:49
  you know, I'll find out once I walk on stage. And, but the response to that post was like crazy,
• 1:16:57
  like thousands of comments. And for me, I think maybe subconsciously, I needed that fuel
• 1:17:04
  of people being like, hey, I got four VIP tickets to Eugene. Hey, we'll see you in New Jersey. Hey,
• 1:17:08
  we'll see you here. You know, and the why I buy the VIP tickets is because I know it's supporting you.
• 1:17:13
  Yeah. Like I told my buddy, Adam, he's like, you got VIP is like, ah, you know, I said you're
• 1:17:17
  supporting Drew. He's like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to do that too. Yeah. And I appreciate that
• 1:17:22
  supporting Drew. Yeah, because how the VIP thing works is, it's like 75, right? Yeah. And it's
• 1:17:27
  not that much. Yeah. So it's like the, whatever the ticket price is is attracted. I'm going to say,
• 1:17:33
  you know, double that. Yeah. So then we have that kind of talk to you inexpensive. I just want
• 1:17:39
  people that might not have that kind of the opportunity. Like the girl that was going to commit suicide.
• 1:17:43
  Right. I wanted to come tell me her story. But yeah, because how that VIP thing works,
• 1:17:49
  the reason we start doing it is the ticket price comes out of that. And that goes into the deal
• 1:17:53
  that we have with the venue. And then whatever's left over goes directly to me. So it's huge
• 1:17:58
  on tour. It is absolutely huge, you know, because it might only be an extra 600 bucks. But that's
• 1:18:05
  like, okay, well, I just paid my tour manager and food for the show. Yeah. You know, it's like,
• 1:18:11
  it's huge. Every little bit on tour is like so huge. So let's sell out the VIPs. Yeah, dude.
• 1:18:17
  I'm I'm still say sound well here in Salt Lake. That's my favorite indoor venue in the country.
• 1:18:22
  Oh my gosh. It's a great venue. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, we'll be there. Adam will be
• 1:18:26
  there. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll be there at VIP. Come say hi. Yeah, dinner with my friends. Yeah,
• 1:18:30
  a night of it. Yeah, and go to church. We'll go to church. It's going to be awesome. I want to
• 1:18:36
  this song is a bit on my playlist. I don't know if you know this. I'm sure you know the song,
• 1:18:42
  the strongest medicine. I'm trying to get the people to come out. Kevin Peris and Casey
• 1:18:49
  Calamason. No, I'm going to send this to you. I'm going to text it to you, but I want you to
• 1:18:55
  listen to these words because this is what helped me heal. And I used to do this when I come out
• 1:19:01
  of Pranayama breathwork, cyclic sign, you know, the Harvard took over these ancient practices
• 1:19:07
  and through, you know, call it cyclic sign where you go. I mean, even Mel Robbins is talking about
• 1:19:13
  and Uberman's talking about this. This has been around the people that we hang with. This is what
• 1:19:18
  they do. I mean, it's you're you get into sympathetic like that. Yeah, no, I've done a
• 1:19:23
  well done a fair amount of breathwork. I'm sure you. Yeah, that's wild. And so, but I like I said
• 1:19:29
  with your songs because you're you're open, right? When you're in that state, you're I like to say
• 1:19:35
  you're into quantum Jesus. And I curate a playlist and your songs are on it. Malachi is on it.
• 1:19:41
  But the one when I was going through the hardest time, I had to make a decision. I had to encourage
• 1:19:46
  to make a decision in my business that is huge massive risk, financial risk, all of it to be
• 1:19:53
  fully me, you know, to be to be fully free and to be fully me to be fully free. That's a lyric.
• 1:20:00
  When I played this song over and over again, so I'm going to I'm going to read this to you and
• 1:20:04
  to the to the listeners. It's going to make me cry. This is what we discussed, right? Where you
• 1:20:11
  get to a million dollars or a million dollar house, all that means nothing. And there's so many
• 1:20:15
  people that are listening to this. They're still caught in that trap. They're caught into this trap
• 1:20:20
  that that success is financial success. You know, a nicer house, more cars, diamond rings, all the
• 1:20:28
  shit that Hollywood is showing that that people are getting sucked into, even in the hell space,
• 1:20:34
  totally sucked into. Because what do I have to show? 99 problems, no healing. This story is getting
• 1:20:41
  old. There's only one thing that we're needing. And it goes into love is the strongest medicine.
• 1:20:46
  I know love is so love, you know, what you said, what Christ came to do is to love you and to
• 1:20:52
  give you grace and to know that your past isn't you. The mistakes you made, I still love you,
• 1:20:58
  right? And then it's the sweet medicine that we're dealing. Shake off the sickness, let what is
• 1:21:03
  built in. Take you up higher, higher now. Because what do you want to show? A house full of things
• 1:21:09
  in your heart, powerful. Choose what you want to see. Because you are enough. You're everything.
• 1:21:15
  Yeah, that's those lyrics. Let's play it over and over again. Just to solidify me that the
• 1:21:22
  decision I'm making is the right one, right? That I'm connected to something way bigger. And all
• 1:21:28
  this shit doesn't matter, right? It's in it. There's even a lyric in here. And this is where people
• 1:21:33
  are stuck in right now. They said they said success would come, but I'm, but one more zero. And I'm
• 1:21:40
  still numb. I mean, this is just what this is just that you were saying. Yeah. And what's so
• 1:21:45
  interesting about that is like me by my, where I'm at right now in my life by, you know, the standards
• 1:21:55
  that I had 10 years ago, I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams. I never thought I would own a
• 1:22:00
  vehicle younger than me. You know, I never thought that I would own a home. You know, like my
• 1:22:05
  tour manager, Greg, man, God bless him. He's such a deep, beautiful cat. And he knows me inside
• 1:22:10
  now. He can read me from across the room. Yeah. If you've done a VIP, you've met Greg. And
• 1:22:18
  you know, we were on, it was when we were listening to life goes on and I'm like tearing up and then
• 1:22:23
  I look over and he's tearing up. And he's like, dude, if this is good as it gets pretty good. You know,
• 1:22:29
  like pretty good, dude. It's hard. That's why I've like aimed all of my, my prayers and energy
• 1:22:37
  and to gratitude because it's, we can all do that. If we're, if we're not in gratitude,
• 1:22:44
  then we're feeling some lacking. That makes us ones the next zero. Well, this house, this house
• 1:22:50
  isn't big enough or, you know, same thing. My truck is like a 2019 frontier. It's got like a cool
• 1:22:58
  lift package on it. I love it. And for whatever reason, I caught myself like six months ago before
• 1:23:03
  about this house. Like you should trade it in and get something new. I'm like, why? This truck is
• 1:23:07
  dope. Like at one point, this was my dream vehicle. I'll never forget, man. When I went and got that
• 1:23:14
  truck, you know, I talked them into financing the lift kit and the cool wheels and the grill guard.
• 1:23:20
  You know, and I will never forget going to pick that thing up and it wheeling out of that garage.
• 1:23:25
  And me just being like, I can't believe this is mine. Yeah. Bro, I made it 20 miles down the road.
• 1:23:30
  I said out loud. It's a car, dude. It's the truck. It's literally your dream truck, though. It is.
• 1:23:37
  You know what it does? It moves my body from point A to point B. It is a gas combustion engine
• 1:23:42
  that moves my body from right here to down over there. It doesn't make me, you know, it didn't
• 1:23:48
  really change my life. There's a little nicer in the winter than previous vehicles that I've had.
• 1:23:51
  It's nice to know it's not going to break for no reason. You know, like it's it was the first time
• 1:23:55
  I've had a vehicle where I'm like, it probably it shouldn't break. It's pretty new, you know. But
• 1:24:02
  yeah, just say that to say this that it's like, as my income increases, which you could probably
• 1:24:08
  attest to better than anyone, so does issues. As the income increases, so do problems. My money
• 1:24:15
  more problems. Yeah. And I remember being a kid in here in Biggie, say that and be like, you're
• 1:24:19
  crazy, bro. I'll take you all your Versace shit, then. Give me all your money. I hate, I hate
• 1:24:24
  brands. I do. I don't know. I used to be obsessed with it. Now I don't care. But all the
• 1:24:29
  wide, these jeans are very expensive, but I'd spot the only. Yeah, but it's expensive. We're
• 1:24:34
  gaining. I say all that to say that it's just like, you know, when you don't have, you think that
• 1:24:38
  is going to fix it. And then you have and you realize that it's the thing. It's the thing that
• 1:24:43
  we're missing is inside of us. It's not without. Yeah. So there's the lyric in this song too. I'm
• 1:24:49
  going to it. It's lies, right? It's literally a lie that we're being told that these things
• 1:24:58
  are going to make our lives better. But it's literally an energetic lie that is stopping us
• 1:25:05
  from truly connecting with each other and ourselves. And I get it. If you're struggling financially,
• 1:25:10
  we all struggle financially. The richest people in the world struggle financially. We all
• 1:25:14
  struggle financially. And when you travel and you tour and you see families, they have nothing
• 1:25:18
  but they have everything. So what is it here in America? We've elevated these people's,
• 1:25:25
  we elevated things. And this is what this this song says. I don't have it memorized. I don't need
• 1:25:29
  to read it. But it says big houses, diamonds, fast cars, their lies upon lies, lies upon lies.
• 1:25:39
  Like in an entrepreneurship. And I get it. If you like fast cars, that's great. But it's a lie
• 1:25:45
  that once you get that fast car, that it means something. It just means that you enjoy it.
• 1:25:50
  Anything is going to change in you. No, it's not. Nothing is going to change inside of you.
• 1:25:54
  Yeah. So the greatest wealth, the the the priceless nature of anything. This is why I think both
• 1:26:02
  of us love when things things are happening to us because that lesson, what it did to my heart,
• 1:26:09
  and that transformation, and how I can now connect with more people and with my wife and my
• 1:26:13
  children, it's worth so much to me. And I had to go through that hard thing to feel this and get
• 1:26:20
  that freedom. Like it's priceless. Yeah. Like that because the rest of the stuff, none of that
• 1:26:25
  stuff doesn't do that. Right. But connecting with nature and a sunset and you're able to feel that
• 1:26:31
  what is that worth? It's priceless stuff. And everyone can have access to that as we get connected
• 1:26:37
  to nature and to God and each other. And we start reaching out. And you know, I get to be part of
• 1:26:41
  your story now. And I'm doing everything I can, you know, to to to help you because I know you
• 1:26:48
  have a good heart. Like I can feel your through your song. I can feel your frequency. I can feel your
• 1:26:53
  love. I can feel your struggle and this authenticity and connection. And we're here to to lift each
• 1:26:59
  other up, not to judge each other, not to want with each other has. But how can we help each other
• 1:27:04
  move to that next place of impact for that for that worn out there that needs to hear your music
• 1:27:11
  for the the gal that was a drug and was going to take our life. But your music said, Hey, he did it,
• 1:27:18
  you know, look what he's doing. And there's Drew, you know, changing lives. I can do that too. So
• 1:27:24
  this conversation is so exciting to me because we come from different backgrounds,
• 1:27:28
  different, but we landed on the same things. Gratitude, thankfulness, get into our hearts.
• 1:27:34
  Being a good dad, being a good mom, you know, whatever it is for you, it's the juice, man.
• 1:27:39
  Yeah, love. It's love, love and grace. It's not complicated, isn't it?
• 1:27:44
  No, it's pretty easy, man. For if it is, yeah, I just for me, it's well, I remember this on my
• 1:27:52
  deathbed, will this matter scale out? Will this matter in a day? Will it matter in two weeks?
• 1:27:58
  You know, my buddy Brady had this had this dream where he's like, you know, we have to talk to you
• 1:28:04
  about what the matter is. And then it like goes to this, that like dream kind of changes for him.
• 1:28:10
  He's like, well, what's the matter? And then it was this folder that said what matters? And he's
• 1:28:14
  like, all I remember in the dream was that it was really thin. Like maybe one piece of paper in
• 1:28:19
  this folder. And I'm like, I always come back to him sharing that dream with me. I'm like, yeah,
• 1:28:23
  what matters is actually pretty pretty thin, pretty thin. Yeah. And we can all have it.
• 1:28:29
  Right. And that's I think that's the message that we bring today. I think that's what the story
• 1:28:34
  of you allows people to see. And I want wanted to introduce a nontoxic living audience to a guy
• 1:28:41
  that changed my life. Well, I'm grateful for you both. Yeah, going through the pain in the hurt to
• 1:28:47
  to share a message of healing and hope and authenticity and making hard choices that help us grow,
• 1:28:55
  you know, just you're rolling with life, you're rolling jujitsu and you roll with life,
• 1:28:59
  try and we're all trying. So after having this, you know, it's awesome conversation. And I know
• 1:29:04
  that people are, you know, my goal obviously is to introduce a there's very few humans at this point
• 1:29:10
  that are impacting my life because I'm very careful what I surround myself. And I'm very
• 1:29:16
  conscious of the music I listen to. I don't listen to anything, but your shit or your stuff
• 1:29:21
  if you want the edited version Trevor Hall, you know, Nako for the people, you know, Rick Ricardo.
• 1:29:30
  Yeah. He's a sweet boy. Yeah. Um, I was in tears listening to his song the other day,
• 1:29:34
  the story of you, not story of you. Um, what is it? Uh, I'm not super familiar. He's played a few
• 1:29:39
  shows with this. Yeah, yeah. So one of his songs and tears like I only want to put in stuff that's
• 1:29:44
  going to make me a better human. And your stuff made me a better human. And I wanted for listening
• 1:29:50
  man. Yeah, I wanted the non toxic living community to, to, to meet a guy that's a little playing
• 1:29:56
  what I believe to be non toxic music. Hey man. And I believe there is toxic music and toxic frequency.
• 1:30:02
  That's up to you to decide, but I think a lot of the pop music is. Um, there's a lot of value
• 1:30:07
  there too. Um, it just depends on where you at and what you like. But for me, I'm only going to
• 1:30:12
  surround my frequency and energy with people that I know that have good hearts. Um, I never had
• 1:30:16
  to meet Trevor Hall to know he had a good heart. I didn't have to meet you to know that. And it's
• 1:30:20
  been an honor to meet you. And I wanted to, one, did you meet my family, the non toxic dad family.
• 1:30:27
  Um, and it's a good one. It's a big one. Um, they're, they're really good hearted people. Um,
• 1:30:32
  really good hearted people with their heads on straight that really believe like we believe.
• 1:30:36
  And so I think they're really going to connect with you. So how can they find you? Um, sat
• 1:30:40
  sang on Instagram. Um, I checked my DMs all the time too. So you can send me a message. But
• 1:30:45
  for tickets, you can find a Instagram or Facebook. Just click the link in the bio. And then you
• 1:30:51
  can find my music anywhere. YouTube iTunes, Apple music, Spotify, Google play anywhere that you
• 1:30:59
  would possibly listen to music. My music is there. Yeah. And then you have the website sat
• 1:31:03
  saying movement. Yep. Yep. You can get tickets there too. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then even on, I noticed
• 1:31:08
  on on Spotify that pops up. Yeah. They just show you your look. Yeah, locally. Yeah. I'm like,
• 1:31:13
  already got it. Yep. So that's pretty cool. They do that for us. I love it. So I highly recommend
• 1:31:19
  you listening to everyone listening to some of your music, especially the, the story of you is
• 1:31:23
  that if you want to know an album that, that changed, uh, Warren Phillips's non toxic dad life,
• 1:31:28
  that was, that was the one. Um, I, I can't think of a more, I mean, this might be humble you,
• 1:31:35
  but I can't think of a more impactful album I've listened to in my life that changed my life
• 1:31:42
  more than that album. So that is, that is a big compliment. Yeah. Thank you so much. And receive
• 1:31:48
  that shit. Yeah. You know, receive that. Feel that, you know, um, it was super powerful. And, uh,
• 1:31:53
  I hope that every some other people get to experience that who haven't. They don't even know what
• 1:31:58
  this kind of music is. Yeah. Like who, who are these people? But they're weirdos, dude. Are you singing
• 1:32:03
  songs? Yeah. They're, they're out there. And, uh, they're special people and we mentioned a few
• 1:32:07
  of your friends. Yeah. So thanks for being on the show, bro. Yeah. Thanks for having me, man.