Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / WALKING DEAD: CHRISTA PIKE FACING HANGMAN'S NOOSE?

Transcript

WALKING DEAD: CHRISTA PIKE FACING HANGMAN'S NOOSE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the walking dead. Krista
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Pike cheats death by lethal injection, but now facing the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: hangman's noose. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: They are supposed to be carrying out an execution tonight.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: The female has not passed away. Some have suggested that
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: she get hit over the head with an asphalt block.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Lex Talionis, eye for an eye. Because the state cannot
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: do the one thing.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: It was supposed to do right, this horrible human being,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: she may get an argument for life.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: Her lawyers made two requests. First, an all-female execution team.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: She cannot be touched by men. Second, she wants to
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: be hanged, not injected. Her veins cannot handle it. The
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: state Supreme Court said no.
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: Insertion of IVs and injection of pentobarbital will be more
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: likely to either be difficult to achieve because of the
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: compromised veins here or more likely to result in a
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: blowout with hanging. There is no need to strap Ms.
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Pike to a gurney, no need to prod and find
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: venous access, and no need for her to lie there
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: reliving her sexual assaults by the involuntary actions of her
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: traumatized brain.
• 1:39
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: So, Krista Pike actually asked for the hangman's noose over
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: lethal injection. That's from Daily Heat, TikTok, and WBIR. Speaking
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of TikTok, TikTok, TikTok, tonight, her defense team doing everything
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: they can to delay a decision as the Tennessee governor
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: hides under his desk, refusing to decide or announce whether
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: he will commute her from the death penalty. All of
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: this going on as the defense team delays, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: by claiming they need to do even more cognitive assessments
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to determine whether she understands what's going on. I submit
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to you tonight that based on her first text, I'm
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: at the prison. I love you so much. She's fine.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: If she can text, I love you so much. She
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: knows what's going on. Did she ask for the hangman's noose?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: When was the hangman's noose last used? Has it ever
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: been used on a female? Now, all of this going
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: down while Colleen Slimmer's mother is watching from the sidelines.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Remember Colleen Slimmer? She is the teen girl that Krista
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Pike murdered. stabbing her with knives, etching a devilish pentagram
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: into her skin, chasing her down with a meat cleaver
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and bashing her in the back with the meat cleaver.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Then when the job wasn't done, picked up a chunk
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: of asphalt and beat her so badly in the skull,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: her head squashed like a pumpkin. The skull broke and
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: she actually grabbed a piece of the skull, took it
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: to show off and danced around with it tonight, joining us,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: one of her friends who witnessed the skull dance. That said,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Colleen's mother is on the sidelines watching as Krista Pike
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: seemingly picks, selects her own mode of execution. Well, Colleen
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: never had that opportunity. Why is it necessary for you
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to be there?
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: Because she killed my daughter, and I don't want to
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: see another child or another person hurt like she did.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: It's hard.
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: I broke down in tears. She was laying on a table, talking,
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: still laughing, picking up her head.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: Has anyone apologized to you for this?
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 4:25
  Speaker 7: Nobody apologized.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: Here we are, 31 years, and you're laughing in my
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: face again.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And that's what I feel.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Like they did.
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: I want to think about Colleen being there. and saying,
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: thank you, Mom, on her voice. The criminals get so
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: much attention.
• 4:42
  Speaker 8: Why?
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: She has been lost in this, and they lost a
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: piece of her skull that we still can't find. She's
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: been forgotten, other than when it's brought.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Up like this. So tonight, as Krista Pike plays eeny, meeny, miny,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: moe to determine what will be the least painful mode
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: of death for her, her.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Victim's mother stands by and watches. That from First Coast
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: News and WHAS. Of course, there is lethal injection, which
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: went horribly wrong. Tonight, we're learning 10 needles were used,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: at least, and still not effective. You've got the possibility
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of Old Sparky, but that has failed miserably in multiple jurisdictions.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: In Florida alone, we had John Spinkalink got three jolts
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of electricity. to complete the execution. Jesse Taffaro, three jolts,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: smoke and flames shot from his head. Pedro Medina, flames
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and smoke shot from his headpiece due to improperly prepared
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: dry sponges. Alan Lee Davis, aka Tiny, weighed about 300 pounds.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: He was executed in a replacement chair built after the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: original Old Sparky was retired, so he got son of
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Old Sparky He had blood the size of a dinner
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: plate on his chest at the time of his execution.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: That's just Florida alone. And you would think Florida would
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: be the specialists in the electric chair. Well, it didn't
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: always work out. So what's left? Hangman's noose. We know
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: that Krista Pike actually requested the hangman's noose. But according
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to one of our guests tonight, that's not exactly how
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: it went down. It wasn't actually an engraved invitation. Please
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: give me the hangman's noose. Keith Sharon is with us,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter with the Tennessean and star of Murder on
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Music Row podcast. Keith, how did it come about that
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Pike requested hangman's noose?
• 6:51
  Speaker 9: So in August, she was forced to argue for the
• 6:55
  Speaker 9: hangman's noose because she had to come up with an alternative.
• 6:58
  Speaker 9: to the butterfly IV method. The law requires that if
• 7:03
  Speaker 9: you're going to argue against one way, you have to
• 7:05
  Speaker 9: provide an alternative. So what it looked like to me
• 7:09
  Speaker 9: was kind of a legal argument that didn't have much standing.
• 7:15
  Speaker 9: They would have argued that we don't have gallows. We
• 7:18
  Speaker 9: haven't done a hanging in 100 years. What kind of
• 7:23
  Speaker 9: person would serve as the hangman? They would have argued
• 7:25
  Speaker 9: all these points. I could just see the defense, had
• 7:28
  Speaker 9: they gone there, how tight do you tie the noose?
• 7:32
  Speaker 9: How far does she drop? What's the gallows made out of?
• 7:38
  Speaker 9: They would have argued everything, but it was just a
• 7:41
  Speaker 9: required legal argument that they said was more effective than
• 7:46
  Speaker 9: the lethal injection.
• 7:48
  Speaker 10: Dr.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: William Maroney, joining us for now, medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: opioid treatment expert. He is the author of American Narcan.
• 7:59
  Speaker 10: Dr.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Maroney, thank you for being with us. How difficult is
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it when you compare the difficulty of modes of execution?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Is hangman's noose more or less difficult than lethal injection?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: And how should a correct lethal injection have taken place anyway?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: What the hay went wrong? 10 needles?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I would say a hangman's noose would be exceedingly more
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: efficient and almost completely infallible. What you have is death
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: by injection was changed by this state. The standard death
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: by injection for every legacy is one thiopental. It relaxes you. So,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It goes to your brain. It helps you relax. Gets
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: rid of anxiety and you breathe less. Two, you go
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: underneath and you get pancuronium and it paralyzes your diaphragm
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: so you can't breathe. And then three, you're given potassium
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: chloride to stop the heart. Tennessee didn't do any of that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: They just gave penobarbital. I mean, What the hell? You
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: changed the system. You made it harder. Traditional execution by
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: injection is three elements that goes to three different places.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And then you stop and you give us one and
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: then it doesn't work. And people say, oh, it took
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: too long. Oh, we had 10 times. Plus, every internal
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: medicine resident, surgery resident, anybody going through medical school, Learns
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: how to do central lines. Where we go deep venous access.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Because this fails. And they're using superficial venous access in
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: somebody who had a history of substance use disorder. So
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: all the veins are shot. And anatomically, she was the
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: wrong person to get that ejection. And a hangman's noose
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: is the equalizer. It takes all the pressure of the
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: whole body and puts it on the head. And when
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: done correctly, it separates, cuts the spinal cord, the bones break,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the hyoid's crushed, and they're dead.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: That's simple.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: That's simple. I mean, the problem is this is a
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: disaster from the planning. If you're going to do mosaic law,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: if you're going to go eye for an eye, tooth
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: for a tooth, do it. Don't change it and expect
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: it to work. There's just a fumbling amount of errors here.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I see errors in medicine and I try to fix them.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: These are errors in death. That is even worse.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 11:29
  Speaker 9: Dr.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Maroney, you stated and you demonstrated that three specific elements
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: were required and what each element did to the human body.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: And in theory, that should have worked. I've got a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: question for you, Dr. Maroney. You know, very often when
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you have dental surgery, you might get laughing gas or
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: you might get some sort of a sedative. Before you
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: have real surgery, before they shoot you full of propofol,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: they might give you some sort of a sedative. Why
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: isn't that possible? I mean, with propofol, you go out
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: just like that.
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And you remember nothing.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Before the administration of the three... specific drugs. Why wouldn't
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: that work? So she would feel nothing. I mean, no
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: one wants a barbaric execution. Many people don't want an
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: execution at all. They think it's immoral. But if you're
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: going to have it, why would you not do it
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: in a humane way? Why wouldn't propofol prior to the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: execution work or something like propofol?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Like thiopental or one of the other pre-anesthetics. And the
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: reason why is somebody's trying to save money that's why
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: oh dear lord in heaven money that's the whole thing.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And look at all the money they've wasted now and
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: you know how many lawsuits are going to be flying
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: you know all this i'm in prison i love you
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: so much text her next text was who can i
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: see listen to me now i don't have proof of
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that i'm just extrapolating But could you tell me one
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: more time what the three elements are and what they're
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: supposed to do to the body with your friend you've
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: got there? Okay.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: The first thing is a pre-anesthetic. It goes to the brain.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: It makes them relax, slows down breathing, and everybody becomes
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: kind of limp and loose. That's where you would go
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: with propofol. The second item paralyzes... The diaphragm, so you
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: can't breathe. That's the first step in the critical part
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: of execution by injection. And thirdly, goes to the heart
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: right here. Right here. Potassium chloride. It stops the heart.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: That would never fail. Brain, relax. Diaphragm. paralyze it and
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: then right in the middle, the heart paralyze it with
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: potassium chloride. The heart stops electrically and it stops beating
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and there's never a mistake with potassium chloride. Just trying
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to save money. We're all trying to save money.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: What is your, in a nutshell for all of us
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: regular people that are not renowned medical examiners, what is
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: your recommendation to Tennessee? Maybe I can get the message
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to the governor. Is he still hiding under his desk? Yes,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: he is. He's got to face this. He's got to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: do something. He's got to either commute the death penalty
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: or he's got to give the go-ahead to the death
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: penalty and they've got to figure out a way to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: do this thing if they're going to do it. So
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: what's your advice?
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: My advice is that justice requires execution based on the conviction.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Justice requires requires execution. Go back and do this the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: right way. Use the three elements and pay somebody that
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: knows what they're doing and try not to save any money.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: That's what I say. Justice requires a sentence and the
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: sentence takes execution.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: If hanging is the alternative, We're in a whole heap
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of trouble.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: William Maroney, you stated it may be the most expeditious
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and the least painful. How long should a hanging take?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Well, that separation of the first vertebrae in the skull
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: pops almost immediately with body weight. Body weight pulls you
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: down and that breaks your neck. We're looking at 30 seconds,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: maybe 45 seconds.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, before I go to our special guest tonight,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Colleen Slimmer's dear friend, Dave, Hangman's Noose. Her request, granted
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: it was not an engraved invitation, please hang me, but
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that said, there are only so many alternatives, and the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: governor's got to do something. He cannot hide under his
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: desk forever.
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: Forever.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So what can you tell me about the possibility of
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the hangman's noose that's seemingly the runner up to lethal injection?
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, in Tennessee, this was actually considered hanging. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 8: yet the problem was they didn't have a person who
• 16:44
  Speaker 8: was qualified to do the hanging. It actually requires knowing
• 16:48
  Speaker 8: math and things like that so that you actually hang
• 16:51
  Speaker 8: the person.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, stop.
• 16:53
  Speaker 11: Stop, stop.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Dave, at the risk of being bombarded on social media
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: for interrupting. Dave, what do you mean? You have to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: have a mathematician to perform a hanging?
• 17:08
  Speaker 11: What?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:10
  Speaker 8: A hanging, Nancy, is not just a simple hang the
• 17:13
  Speaker 8: person by strangulation. The idea is that when the hangman's
• 17:18
  Speaker 8: noose is placed on, the trapdoor goes when they drop.
• 17:22
  Speaker 8: It's supposed to snap their neck, causing death immediately. Problem is,
• 17:26
  Speaker 8: you run the risk of having their head ripped off, decapitated,
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: or not killing them through breaking of the neck, but
• 17:34
  Speaker 8: by hanging there and strangling and everybody standing by seeing
• 17:38
  Speaker 8: the the individual in pain wiggling around as they die.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: So those are the problems. That's why I say math.
• 17:44
  Speaker 8: You have to factor in the person's weight, height, and
• 17:46
  Speaker 8: length of rope that's needed to actually cause this person's demise.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. You certainly evoked a mental image with that explanation.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, you're right. So many things can go wrong. Maroney,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you didn't mention any of that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't let an inferior gallows be built. You
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: make sure that the noose is tight. You get 30
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to 40 seconds to cut off their oxygen and they're out.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: And then clinical death happens two minutes later. That's the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: simple math behind it. You got to do it right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Did you hear what Dave Mack said? They didn't have
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: a qualified person. It goes back to what you said,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: just they thought it would cost too much to do
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it correctly with all three of the medications required. Now
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: we can't find the right person for the hangman's noose. Okay,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, what do we know? I mean, when you
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: look up the history of the hangman's noose, it starts
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: with the Salem witch trials back in the 1600s. Nobody
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: wants to relive that. Help me out here. Hangman's Noose,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: is that even real?
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: It is, Nancy, and it's been something that has been
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: part of our history in the United States of America.
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: It brought here the judicial hanging imported to colonial America
• 19:13
  Speaker 8: for criminals, rebels, enslaved people, infamous mass judicial executions, including murder.
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: the 1862 public hanging of 38 Dakota men caught in
• 19:23
  Speaker 8: Minnesota that was ordered by the United States federal government.
• 19:27
  Speaker 8: You know, it's been so famous that we've even had
• 19:29
  Speaker 8: a judge who was called the hanging judge, Judge Isaac
• 19:33
  Speaker 8: Parker in Fort Smith, Arkansas. He famously utilized the gallows
• 19:38
  Speaker 8: and the noose as symbols of federal judicial power across
• 19:41
  Speaker 8: the Western frontier in the late 19th century. And then,
• 19:44
  Speaker 8: of course, we had the end of the judicial hangings.
• 19:48
  Speaker 8: State-sanctioned hanging steadily gave way to electrocution, gas chamber, and
• 19:53
  Speaker 8: lethal injection. You know, the last time somebody was hanged
• 19:57
  Speaker 8: in the United States of America was in Delaware in
• 20:00
  Speaker 8: 1996 when Billy Bailey was executed. That was the last
• 20:05
  Speaker 8: hanging in the U.S.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: There are also claims to bring the firing squad to Tennessee.
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: There still is a failure rate with the gas chamber,
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: and I don't think we want to do that. We're
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: not hanging people anymore, but there were failure rates of 3%
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: or 4% with that, and even electrocution. But the one
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: that there was zero botched cases was the firing squad.
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: If we're going to do it in Tennessee, we need
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: to do it right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: From WKRNOK. You've got lethal. You've got the needle. You've
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: got firing squad. You've got hangman's noose. You've got the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: gas chamber.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Uh-oh.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Keith Sheeran, investigative reporter with the Tennessean. Keith, thought?
• 20:51
  Speaker 9: Everyone gets really upset because it took 31 years since
• 20:56
  Speaker 9: Krista Pike committed the crime to get to this point.
• 21:00
  Speaker 9: Imagine the delays when you argue the math that you
• 21:04
  Speaker 9: guys have just been talking about. uh, the, the weight, the, the, the,
• 21:09
  Speaker 9: you know, tightness of the noose, the qualifications of the,
• 21:12
  Speaker 9: the hangman, they haven't done this. They'd have to build
• 21:14
  Speaker 9: new gallows in real life. Uh, hanging just doesn't work.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: With us in addition to Dr. William Maroney, Keith Sharon
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: from the Tennessee and, and Dave Mack, Dr. Bethany Marshall
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: is with us. Uh, Renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the L.A. jurisdiction. You can see her on Bravo, Hulu, Peacock.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: She's got a brand new hit podcast, the Dr. Bethany
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Marshall podcast.
• 21:41
  Speaker 10: Dr.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Bethany, I want you to hear something that Pike's attorney said.
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: With hanging, there is no need to strap Ms. Pike
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: to a gurney, no need to prod and find Venus Access,
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: and no need.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: For her to lie there reliving her sexual assaults by
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: the involuntary actions of her traumatized brain.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, Dr. Bethany, that was from WBIR, by the way. Dr. Bethany,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the defense attorney inserts whenever possible the claim that Pike
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was a sex assault victim early on in her life.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know that to be true or untrue. But
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it seems to me that the reverse argument of what
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he just said is a crime victim of a violent
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: assault should have been more acutely in tune to what
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: was happening to Colleen Slimmer, her victim. So now they're
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: using the reverse of that, that she, Pike, is going
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to suffer. But when you hear what happened to Slimmer,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: If Pike had been a sex assault victim, shouldn't she
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: be even more attuned to suffering of a female victim
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: such as Colleen?
• 23:03
  Speaker 12: No, I think it's the opposite. She wanted to brutalize Colleen.
• 23:06
  Speaker 12: And remember, she thought Colleen Slemmer wanted her boyfriend. So
• 23:10
  Speaker 12: this was sort of a sick love triangle amongst many
• 23:13
  Speaker 12: other things. And you mentioned earlier the asphalt bludgeoning the
• 23:18
  Speaker 12: head until it just was crushed like a And if
• 23:23
  Speaker 12: Krista Pike had been molested, I mean, I just have
• 23:26
  Speaker 12: to say this is so primitive and animalistic and brutal.
• 23:30
  Speaker 12: It's just hard to even talk about. But the asphalt
• 23:33
  Speaker 12: and the bludgeoning of her head until it was unrecognizable
• 23:38
  Speaker 12: turns the victim into somebody who is no longer beautiful,
• 23:42
  Speaker 12: authentic with her own sense of agency, somebody who can
• 23:45
  Speaker 12: be out in the world enjoying her life.
• 23:47
  Speaker 13: Maybe having sex, having a boyfriend, maybe being with Krista
• 23:50
  Speaker 13: Pike's boyfriend. So she renders her unrecognizable. And with the
• 23:55
  Speaker 13: complete crushing of the skull, there's absolute expression of rage
• 24:01
  Speaker 13: through the asphalt. There's actual dominance over the victim. You know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 13: Krista Pike.
• 24:06
  Speaker 12: Could have poisoned her, shot her, quickly, you know, crept
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: up from behind, strangled her. But she really wanted to
• 24:15
  Speaker 12: triumph over her and dominate her. And I keep thinking,
• 24:19
  Speaker 12: how many politicians does it take to screw in a
• 24:22
  Speaker 12: light bulb with this situation? All of this is very
• 24:26
  Speaker 12: painful to hear everybody talking on this show about all
• 24:29
  Speaker 12: the missed opportunities to deliver justice, because I want to
• 24:32
  Speaker 12: point out real quickly that May Martinez should be a
• 24:36
  Speaker 12: grandmother right now. She should be that person that we
• 24:40
  Speaker 12: refer to in culture as the ace in the hole
• 24:42
  Speaker 12: for families, the one who stands behind justice. is in
• 24:45
  Speaker 12: a new developmental phase, taking care of grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
• 24:49
  Speaker 12: And it wasn't just her daughter's head that was smashed
• 24:52
  Speaker 12: like a pumpkin. All the subsequent joys and celebrations, weddings, children, grandchildren,
• 24:59
  Speaker 12: birthday parties, those were smashed to smithereens too. And I
• 25:03
  Speaker 12: think that the state has shown extreme disrespect to May
• 25:07
  Speaker 12: Martinez and the entire family.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: To Marie Pereira joining us, criminal defense attorney, domestic violence expert.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: She's also a registered nurse. Weigh in on all that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you've heard, Marie.
• 25:19
  Speaker 10: I think it was just as simple as she was
• 25:23
  Speaker 10: jealous of the little girl because she thought the girl
• 25:26
  Speaker 10: wanted her man. That's called pure evil. And I don't
• 25:30
  Speaker 10: think it has anything to do with her upbringing. The
• 25:32
  Speaker 10: fact that her parents weren't there for her. She grew
• 25:35
  Speaker 10: up poor. She was crawling around in dog poop at
• 25:37
  Speaker 10: her grandma's house. The girl was just jealous of the other.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: One, period. It's called evil.
• 25:44
  Speaker 10: And as far as the execution, I agree with the
• 25:47
  Speaker 10: central line portion. Because Nancy, I'm a nurse, but I'm
• 25:50
  Speaker 10: not a nurse who's a phlebotomist. Who are these people
• 25:54
  Speaker 10: trying to get these skinny veins? If you have skinny veins,
• 25:57
  Speaker 10: you cannot have a big needle. There are different sizes.
• 26:01
  Speaker 10: Central line solves that problem. Put in the central line
• 26:05
  Speaker 10: so all of the heavy medications just go in. The
• 26:09
  Speaker 10: ones that make her brain calm, freeze her diaphragm, paralyzes
• 26:13
  Speaker 10: it so she doesn't breathe, all of those medications through
• 26:16
  Speaker 10: a central line so the vein does not blow out.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: That's how it is. And get nurses who are specialists
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and phlebotomists at the same time. That's what needs to
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: be done.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: What is that you just held up?
• 26:34
  Speaker 10: My turkey baster. With a big needle, I wouldn't use
• 26:38
  Speaker 10: it on a little turkey. This is for a big turkey.
• 26:41
  Speaker 10: Even turkey basters have their role. Use the right needle
• 26:45
  Speaker 10: for the right thing that you're trying to inject. In
• 26:48
  Speaker 10: her case, the central line is the key, like the
• 26:52
  Speaker 10: doctor said, because it's like when you're receiving chemotherapy, they're
• 26:56
  Speaker 10: not giving it to you in a little tiny vein.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: They put in a port and they give it to
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: you appropriately. That's it. No veins blowing.
• 27:04
  Speaker 10: That woman deserves to pay for what she did to
• 27:07
  Speaker 10: the little girl, period.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 27:11
  Speaker 10: There was nothing more than just humanistic evil and jealousy.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: She wanted her man, and so she had to die.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: That's it. That simple.
• 27:20
  Speaker 11: There's evil in the world, Nancy. You know this.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Marie, you just, of all the things that you just said,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: one word grabbed me. Of course, I agree with what
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: you said, but port. Port. Why not use a port?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Explain the use of a port for Pete's sake.
• 27:51
  Speaker 10: It is for heavy duty medicine, some good, some bad,
• 27:56
  Speaker 10: not for, you know, medicine that kills a person. But
• 27:59
  Speaker 10: chemotherapy goes into a port because they know they don't
• 28:03
  Speaker 10: want to be poking you every time they want to
• 28:05
  Speaker 10: administer medicine. A port, a central line in this situation
• 28:10
  Speaker 10: is the best thing because you use it, heavy duty medication,
• 28:15
  Speaker 10: as much as you want. It goes exactly to all
• 28:17
  Speaker 10: the organs it's supposed to. It doesn't blow a vein
• 28:21
  Speaker 10: and end up going into tissue, which is why she screamed.
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: My arm feels like it's on fire because the vein
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: popped and the medicine didn't go through her body.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: It was laying in the tissue of her arm. That
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: is cruel and unusual punishment. It's not right. If you're
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: putting me to death, do it right. And I'm saying,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: don't use big needles. Use a central line.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: So how does a port work? In layman talk, use
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: street vernacular. How does a port work?
• 28:53
  Speaker 10: It's attached to an artery and it goes directly through
• 28:57
  Speaker 10: a large artery. And that's where the medicine goes through.
• 29:01
  Speaker 10: So there's no chance that you're going to pop it.
• 29:04
  Speaker 10: Because an artery is much larger and stronger than a vein,
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: and it could take volumes of fluid more efficiently going
• 29:12
  Speaker 10: to where it's supposed to go.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: It's that simple.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with that idea, Maroney? Dr. Maroney, why not
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: a port?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Well, the difference between a central line and a port
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: is the central line takes minutes to get in. And
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: a port is a pre-surgical, like, you know, 30, 40 minutes.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: The central line takes two minutes to put in. And
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: your lawyer, consulting friend that used to be a nurse,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: she knows about all this because she's CINO.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: This.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: We put central lines in because antibiotics can really irritate.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Chemotherapy can really irritate. And it shuts down small veins.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: So you go to the large one. A port is
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: a surgical procedure that you add something that's as big
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: as a.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes? So what? 30 minutes? Think of all the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: time that has passed, the legal arguments, the back and
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the forth, the lawsuits now. Chris DePike is suing the ambulance,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the jail, the doctors, the people that administered it. Everybody's
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: getting sued.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: A nurse or a doctor can do a central line.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: If you want to do the port, you got to
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: go to a surgeon. You got to send her to
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a hospital. So central line, she said central line, I
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: said central line.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I'm voting for a port because you can't screw up
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a port. Marie, can you screw up a port?
• 30:37
  Speaker 10: Well, anybody can screw up a port, but I agree
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: the central line is the most simple and it delivers the.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Medicine to where it needs to go.
• 30:45
  Speaker 10: It's connected to a large artery, a vein, and it
• 30:49
  Speaker 10: goes without blowing it. There's no popping a tiny vein.
• 30:54
  Speaker 10: in this situation because it's connected to the largest possible
• 30:59
  Speaker 10: conduit to where it's supposed to be delivered.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Put in a central line.
• 31:04
  Speaker 14: It's simple.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe you should meet with the governor of Tennessee, Keith Sharon,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: joining us from the Tennessee and start of murder on
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: music row. What about it, Keith?
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: They argued that in August, a central line, that was
• 31:19
  Speaker 9: Krista Pike's first alternative ahead of hanging the, But here's
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: the defense argument. It would take a doctor to do that,
• 31:29
  Speaker 9: and then the qualifications of the doctor would become an issue,
• 31:34
  Speaker 9: the experience of the doctor, and doctors take an oath
• 31:38
  Speaker 9: to do no harm, first do no harm. So finding
• 31:42
  Speaker 9: a doctor, then challenging the doctor, every move that doctor
• 31:48
  Speaker 9: makes would be argued ahead of time before it started,
• 31:52
  Speaker 9: and it could go on and on and on.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Tonight, Pike's defense attorneys are claiming, we really don't know
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: how the botched execution affect her cognitive abilities, her brain.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: So we don't know if she understands what's happening. I
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: suggest just based on her texting and her comments and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: her lawsuits alone, she's very aware of what is happening.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: That is the new grounds for delay. As promised, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: want you to meet a friend of Colleen Slimmer's. It's
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Rita Morris. Rita, thank you for being with us. Do
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you recall when she, Krista Pike, danced around with Colleen's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: skull fragment?
• 32:43
  Speaker 14: Everybody knew whenever they came back because she was so excited.
• 32:47
  Speaker 14: And she was like excited to have that piece of
• 32:49
  Speaker 14: her skull. Everybody knew. Everybody was scared. But everybody knew.
• 32:54
  Speaker 14: But we all knew how mean she was and how
• 32:56
  Speaker 14: capable she was. Because we've seen the things that she
• 33:00
  Speaker 14: did to other people. And we've seen, you know, we
• 33:02
  Speaker 14: were aware of the way that she acted there. No
• 33:05
  Speaker 14: remorse at all. She was bragging about it. She did
• 33:08
  Speaker 14: like it was a trophy.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Rita Morris says, Joining us tonight, Colleen Slimmer's friend before
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: her murder. Isn't it true that Krista Pike had a long,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: simmering hatred for Colleen?
• 33:25
  Speaker 14: She made it known that she didn't like Colleen. She
• 33:28
  Speaker 14: thought that Colleen wanted to Daryl, but it was not
• 33:33
  Speaker 14: like that. Colleen was there before Daryl. Krista got there.
• 33:38
  Speaker 14: So if she liked Tadero, she could have been with
• 33:41
  Speaker 14: Tadero before she got there, but it was not like that.
• 33:44
  Speaker 14: That was the excuse that she used as to why
• 33:47
  Speaker 14: it was okay. Colleen was nice to everybody. She wasn't
• 33:51
  Speaker 14: nice to one person. She was nice to everybody. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 14: I thought Krista took it as, oh, she's nice to
• 33:57
  Speaker 14: my boyfriend. She likes him. Colleen wasn't that type of person.
• 34:00
  Speaker 14: That wasn't her.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Now the added ingredient to this scenario, Rita Morris, is
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the allegations of devil worshipping, which is coming from the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: fact that pentagrams were etched into Colleen's body. I understand
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that Christopi got in with a very bad group, including
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Satan worshippers.
• 34:29
  Speaker 14: It was gangs. It was devil worshipers. It was a
• 34:32
  Speaker 14: lot going on there. So we could, like, go. I
• 34:36
  Speaker 14: stayed away a lot because we could eat there. It
• 34:39
  Speaker 14: was a dorm. But I was like, these people are crazy.
• 34:42
  Speaker 14: I would rather go somewhere and pay for food than
• 34:44
  Speaker 14: eat here free because these people are crazy. So I
• 34:46
  Speaker 14: would not. I was away as much as I could be.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Rita Morris joining us tonight, everyone. This is Colleen's friend
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: from way back when, before Colleen was murdered. It seems
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: from everything we've learned that Krista Pike was and is a, quote,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: mean girl.
• 35:08
  Speaker 14: I didn't think Tadara was necessarily mean, but Shadala, I
• 35:12
  Speaker 14: would see them pick on other people. And I, cause
• 35:15
  Speaker 14: I remember my first week there, everybody, somebody sold all
• 35:18
  Speaker 14: my clothes and everything. And you know how you just
• 35:21
  Speaker 14: say to yourself, because you don't know who to trust,
• 35:23
  Speaker 14: but she was one of the nicest people there. Everybody
• 35:26
  Speaker 14: loved Colleen.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: There was nothing.
• 35:28
  Speaker 14: Nobody would say anything bad about her. So I think
• 35:31
  Speaker 14: that was another reason why Krista did not like her.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So Rita, um, I asked you about Krista Pike being
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: a mean girl and you were talking about Shadala, her friend,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Krista Pike's friend. What were they all? Just a group
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: of meanies at the time?
• 35:50
  Speaker 14: Shadala was just as mean as Krista. So I think
• 35:55
  Speaker 14: that what happened there was that Shadala ran to tell
• 35:58
  Speaker 14: on everybody to, you know, to get herself an excuse.
• 36:02
  Speaker 14: She was the first person that told told it so
• 36:04
  Speaker 14: i think that that's how she kind of got herself out.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: All over some perceived love triangle dr bethany marshall when
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: we say mean girls we actually think of the movie
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: right mean girls but do they always find girls mean
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: as mean as they are and move in a pack
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: the way rita is describing.
• 36:27
  Speaker 12: Not only do they do that, but they form a
• 36:30
  Speaker 12: hierarchy within the pack so that they are at the
• 36:33
  Speaker 12: top of the pack and then all the other girls
• 36:35
  Speaker 12: form in line underneath them. You know, I'm going to
• 36:38
  Speaker 12: tell you, Nancy, the pack that Krista Pike organized to
• 36:43
  Speaker 12: bludgeon to death Colleen Schlemmer was much more, let's say,
• 36:48
  Speaker 12: competent than the pack of politicians that tried to execute
• 36:53
  Speaker 12: Krista Pike.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Did you know that Dr.
• 36:54
  Speaker 12: Mark Fowler, who was supposed... to install the central line,
• 36:59
  Speaker 12: had not practiced emergency medicine for over a decade, and
• 37:04
  Speaker 12: admitted he had not put in the central line since 2013. Okay,
• 37:11
  Speaker 12: what a botched attempt. So we go back to Krista
• 37:14
  Speaker 12: Pike and this artfully put together group of people who
• 37:20
  Speaker 12: became a killing machine. Yes, she had the capacity to
• 37:24
  Speaker 12: do that. Probably trying to brainwash and recruit and being
• 37:27
  Speaker 12: the Pied Piper for weeks and months until they finally
• 37:31
  Speaker 12: organized themselves into a killing machine.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Back to Rita Morris, who's Colleen Slimmer's friend before Colleen
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: was murdered by Krista Pike. What can you tell me
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: about Colleen?
• 37:42
  Speaker 14: Colleen was an amazing person. I always want her mom
• 37:45
  Speaker 14: to know that she was One of the most kindest.
• 37:48
  Speaker 14: Anybody ask me about Colleen? She was one of the
• 37:50
  Speaker 14: most kindest, most helpful people with the contagious smile that
• 37:54
  Speaker 14: you will never, ever forget. She was the only thing
• 37:58
  Speaker 14: that she did wrong. She trusted the devil.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I keep thinking about Colleen's mother. You knew
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Colleen so well. You knew her mother. What do you
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: make of it?
• 38:10
  Speaker 14: Colleen's mom, May, has never got any. She's not going
• 38:14
  Speaker 14: to get closure from. But how would they feel? How
• 38:16
  Speaker 14: can they feel like it's the right thing to do
• 38:20
  Speaker 14: after everything that she's possibly did? She's not shown any
• 38:23
  Speaker 14: kind of remorse. She's not sorry. And she's practically tried
• 38:27
  Speaker 14: to kill somebody since she's been in jail. This is
• 38:29
  Speaker 14: the person that if they feel that way, why don't
• 38:32
  Speaker 14: they just put their child in there with her since
• 38:34
  Speaker 14: they feel so much compassion for her?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you're right, Rita. Krista Pike did try to kill
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: another person after she killed Colleen Slimmer. So bottom line,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? What do you think should happen?
• 38:54
  Speaker 14: I think that they should execute her as soon as possible.
• 38:58
  Speaker 14: I know that it's not going to bring Colleen back,
• 39:00
  Speaker 14: but her mom needs closure. It's been 30 years. I
• 39:04
  Speaker 14: can't imagine for 30 years that She knew what she
• 39:07
  Speaker 14: was doing. She said it wasn't premeditated. Yes, it was.
• 39:11
  Speaker 14: She knew what she was doing before she, because she told,
• 39:14
  Speaker 14: what did she tell her roommate? I'm feeling kind of naughty.
• 39:17
  Speaker 14: She knew what she was doing and had no remorse
• 39:21
  Speaker 14: about it.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: The Krista Pike saga goes on. Will she face the needles?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Old Sparky, the hangman's noose, the firing squad. We wait
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: as justice unfolds, or will her death sentence be commuted
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: by the Tennessee governor? Tonight, we remember an American hero,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Trooper Clay Carnes, Illinois State Police. killed in the line
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: of duty just 35, leaving behind his grieving wife, Megan,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and children, Gray and Allie, American hero trooper Clay Carnes.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.