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Date coworkers? Men say 'no' · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, we are live. Hello everybody, and welcome back
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brianmhi with Allison,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and this is maintaining frame date co workers. Men say, no,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be looking at an article. We covered this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: one on the Pagement Show last night, but I thought
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: it was too good to like keep to ourselves, because
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: what we have here is a woman that's a guest
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: opinion writer for the New York Times, and she is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: discovering that the me too movement has destroyed dating in
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the workplace, like sort of like wrote workplace romance opportunities,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and not just the workplace, also schools, basically everywhere where
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: you know, men and women gather, and there is like
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: some kind of institution that can punish people for upsetting
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: someone basically. But she says, you know, ditch all that,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: forget the risk. Guys, just you know, walk up to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: her and ask her out at work. What's the worst
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: thing that can happen? Just do it and do it
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: because I want it. I won't spoil anything, as I
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: did read the article, but it's it's definitely something out
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: of self interest, not like because oh no, this is
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: all in such a bad place, and I feel so
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: bad for all the people who are struggling to get together. No,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: it's about me.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay, I'm sure this is gonna understand the male perspective.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It's goin to have a deep and comprehensive understanding of
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: what men are dealing with when it comes to attempting
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: to elicit interest in the fairer gender, shall we say,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: fairer sex. So I'm sure, I'm sure this is going
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: to be very symmetrical, very balanced. It's not just going
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to be absolutely guys, I know this is. This is it,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: this is. But I said I was gonna I was
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: going for turn of the Tide, but I said turd
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of the tide probably more accurate to what we're going
• 2:10
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  Speaker 1: on the button press.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: That's fine, that's fine. Brian's just just going into a
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: fugue state over this article.
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's do.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: This, All right, let's do this. So this is from
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the New York Times. Go on, date your co workers, no, guest, essay?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: No? No?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, no, I don't mean I don't mean that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: It's like, I'm like, I'm coming for that position to the feminists, like,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: oh my god, if a man who I haven't pre approved,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: who my chaperone hasn't given my calling card to, approaches me,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: my reputation will be ruined, and thus he should be
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: drawn and quartered for the audacity. I'm not coming from
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: that kind of perspective. I'm just like, I think you're
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: asking a lot right in this landscape, especially from somebody
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: who I bet is a feminist. So she promotes making
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the landscape even more hostile and toxic to men. I
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: don't know how much more it could get, considering we're
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: now on the third generation of regarding heterosexuality as the
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: site of female oppression. But I'm sure they can ratchet
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: it up further, make it even more toxic. And she
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: is advising men to just go for it. I you know,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I need to. I'm going to go and I'm going
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: to confirm that the author of this of this article
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: is a feminist. But I suspect because she is writing
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: for the New York Times.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, she is a guest writer on the New
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: York Times. I think she lives in New York. Yes,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: but yeah, uh, go ahead.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: She's either feminist or she's a lesbian sapparatist one or
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the other. Not a lesbian saptist because she probably wants
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: to date men, but regardless, I'm guessing that they're her
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: politics lean that way. So yeah, I would say, you
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: are the one setting out the cowtops, and then you're
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: also the one saying, hey, man, why didn't you trot
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: through these spikes of doom towards me? Yeah, it's a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: mixed it's a mixed, A mixed message. I was gonna say,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: a missed message.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think I can recover that one. So let's
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: let's just get a little bit more.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: All right, start? Yeah, how about we start the article?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: All right? By Juno Kelly missus. Kelly writes about internet culture.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: All right, last year I developed an office crush. My
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: friends warned me against doing anything about it, typically using
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a crude metaphor about keeping your eating space clean. Dating
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: people you work with just seems like too much trouble
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: these days. It's not that people aren't attracted to Jack
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and client relations, with the smile lines and over zealous
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: David Lynch obsession. It's that it feels as if the
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: risk outweighs the reward. So right there, first sentence, I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: developed an office crush that tells you exactly what this
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: is about, right, I mean, I've read the article, so
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to like spoil anything, But do you
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: see where this is going just based on that?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. She wants her office crutch to crutch, her
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: office crutch to come robbling over and crush and say
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: hi to her, and then she'll get the ick because
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe her his tie was the wrong
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: too freaky in cover color.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: No, let's keep going. The plot will thicken a little
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: bit as it goes on. Okay, but crush no, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: not if you're a woman.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I hope she's not. I'm not. I hope she's not
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: looking at him in a lascivious manner because I have
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I have been informed that that is objectification, and that
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: is that is destroys people's souls.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like eating that taking your eyes.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: It eats their souls with your eyes. It's like the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: camera with certain abige. If the camera takes a picture
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: of you, your soul is trapped in the polaroids for
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: the rest of eternity. So I don't she better be
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: careful with those lascivious gazes. She might be the dimension,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: you know, the phantom Zoh yeah, all.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I got a rumble rant from Roboto one
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: seven and he says, are lesbian separatists an issue? Well,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: they're just feminists, thank you. They're just the more radical end.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Uh No, but you brought it up, so he's asking
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: if they're an issue.
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  Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying that they're like probably two categories
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: a feminist in the world. Now are two women, maybe
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: conservative women, but they're generally feminists still, and then they're
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: feminist women, and then they're lesbian separatists. Yeah there's yeah.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: There's very few outside of that. There's not a lot, yep.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But okay, so thank you for that. So let's continue
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: with the article. But a return to office romance could
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: be the solution to the sense many people have that
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: modern dating is broken. I wonder what broke it? Dating
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: apps ask us to consider potential romantic partners not as
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: full human beings with a caffeine addiction and tension diffusing
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: sense of humor, but as a set of optimized digital parameters. Okay,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: so we should like try to translate like the paragraphs, right,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: So first is so I developed an office crush and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I yeah, my friends say it's probably not a good idea.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And I guess, like, nobody does this at work anymore,
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  Speaker 1: no idea, why that is, you know? And then in
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the next paragraph, she's like, yeah, it looks like dating apps.
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  Speaker 1: They they they're just they just see you as like
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  Speaker 1: a checklist of optimized these digital parameters, not a person
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  Speaker 1: with like warts and all. What a shame, right, even
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: though we've had we've been doing dating apps for a
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: long time now, it's not news.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, yeah, well finish off your.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not, I'm not. I just read. I'm not
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: trying to read it too much into it because I
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: know how this goes. But I've said, basically I'm translating her. Well, no,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: but I mean, like, what I'm seeing from this is
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: she is criticizing dating apps, which suggests to me she
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't like the way dating apps categorize her because she
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was talking about herself from the moment that the article started, right,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So when she says, you know, dating apps are trash
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: because they do this, this and this, and it's like, oh,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: so they're doing these things to you. That's why you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: don't like it, you know, you know.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Can I offer an alternative alternative interpretation? Okay, this this
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: guy a workplace crush, So what does that mean? Means
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: they've probably worked together. Yeah, so demonstrated some form Yeah,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: just just wait for it. She's demonstrated some form of
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: a competence in her presence. He shows up every day,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: which is big for the you know, the furry hominid
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: inside every every human being that likes consistency. And probably
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: what's actually happened is he has some kind of MHC
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: compatibility with her. So that means if she's not on
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: birth control, that means she can pick up the fact
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: that his immune system is compatible with hers. It's going
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: to offer more genetic diversity. And then the other thing
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: is there probably is an aspect of kin selection, so
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: he looks something like her relatives while being genetically distinct
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: via the MHC compatibility. So this is what's happening, And
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: she got I've read the subtitle. She says that office
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: is our office romance or office placed humanizes people. Well, yes,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: it actually allows her to evaluate men on categories that
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: are closer to the way her primordial like little furry
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: home and ancestors would be evaluating their male partners or
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: potential partners. So yeah, it's uh, I'm not surprised that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: she's she's she's in a situation where she's starting to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: pick up that this might be a potential partner, because
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the signs of said, the signs that we
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: would have evolved with are more prevalent there, whereas on
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: an app all you do is have basically a spreadsheet.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And I hate to tell you, but human beings didn't
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: evolve to make their selection based on spreadsheets or numbers
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: or still photos. We didn't evolve with those things. We
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: evolved much more to make selection based on that you
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: find in an office. Right, So yeah, I totally get
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: she's got a crush on this guy. She's done some
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: deeper more of the limbic system analysis of him. So
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: it's probably gearing into something for her. What that doesn't matter.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: This doesn't matter because why should he go up to her,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: even if she's attracted to him, and risk his job
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: in a workplace that she no doubt advocated creating the hazards. Right,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to confirm that I don't know. I don't
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: know this woman from Adam. I've just gone through the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: first paragraph with Brian. But really, so bad, so sad lady,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: you have access to an attraction level that's more authentic
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and earthy and human. But I'm sorry you guys decided
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: that you didn't want that, that that's not what she wanted.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: He didn't want men approaching you in the workplace, right,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So suffer sorry, right, and you don't give you do
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: not like that. In this entire regime, there is no
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: clear way for men to approach, and there's no soft landing,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and there's not much upside. Right. So, I mean, I
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: find this really interesting because if I'm right, we are
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: going to see an increase in this kind of thing
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: from women who are in a situation where they're exposed
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: to men and are experiencing more of the more primordial
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: attraction factors rather than the bullshit we've applied on with
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the dating apps and the and the hookup bars. Right,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and then nothing is going to happen because he's not
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: going to risk his job. And for him, that's a
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: bigger risk than it is for her, because if he
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: loses his job, he often loses a good source of
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: his self esteem, his social life, and his ability to
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: actually support himself and keep himself off the streets. You know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that's starting to get to be a big ask. And really,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: what does he get in return from approaching her? I mean,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: this woman is obviously interested in him, so maybe it
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: will result in a date if she doesn't have some
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: kind of brain fart and she just decides something about
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: him just gave her the ick the instant he approached,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: which is a big problem guys like this. I can
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: explain why that happens. Why a woman might be attracted
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: to a man and him coming over and actually expressing
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: an interest in her might spark an ick. It's because
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the whole concept of being in the feminist framework, because
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: heterosexuality is the site of female oppression, the idea of
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: being selected by a man becomes a negative a form
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of degree like being degraded. So it may not even
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: be him that's creating the ick. It may be the fact,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: just the generic fact of a man going over and
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: expressing a sexual interest in a woman that creates an ick.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know how we're going to get over that
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: particular hill as a species, right if that's if that,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: if just a man going over to a woman and
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: saying HI is now has a high probability of making
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: her want to vomit because he's just treated her without
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: her contempt. I don't know how we're gonna square that
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: circle as a species. I guess we're just gonna die
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: because we can't actually get rid of the people who
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: keep pushing it. But you know, that's that's how it happens.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: That's how just approaching a woman who's interested in you
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: can become an ick. And I think I'm pretty sure
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that when I say this, there's probably guys who are like, oh, yeah,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that makes sense because they've been in this situation. But
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong, Like I'm just coming at this from
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: first principles, just applying feminist logic or illogic to the
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: process of human mating, and every time I do that
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: it just seems to get worse and more ugly and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: more deteriorated and more demonic. But you know, like, if
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, if this hasn't happened to you, or if
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this is not something that you sense, then just tell me.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: But I'm just saying that this seems to be a
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: failure mode and it becomes more of a problem when
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: your work, when your job is on the line. And
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: what does a man get out from from approaching this woman,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: even if she likes him. He might she might generate
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a spontaneous ick just because of the of the guest,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the the situation, like the the uh gestalt of the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: relationship between men and women that they exist within how
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: it's all framed. She might just get the ick randomly
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: just because he approached, right, And then what if she
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: isn't interested in him and she actually is one of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the women who believes that men shouldn't approach until they've
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: gotten permission to approach, right, Okay, Well then he's he's
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: just set himself up for a ruined life. So you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: got the best case outcome is she actually doesn't do
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the female thing and then flips into some sort of
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: squealing mess because a man approached her, and feminism says
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that annihilates the woman's self, you know, and she manages
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: to she manages to navigate those shoals, those feminist uh
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you know rocks, and she manages to actually hold on
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: to her his attraction to him, despite feminists trying to
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: destroy it. Right, And then she says, yes, they have
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: they date for however long, maybe one in a billion.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: They have a relationship, right, and they alter the bad,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: which is equally likely. That's the thing, guys, The bad
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: is probably equally likely. Is the good is she loses
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: her ever living fucking shit and he loses his job
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: because he just harassed her. And then there's the gigantic
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: sort of middle ground where you get maybe a neutral
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: no from the woman, and then you move on with
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: your lives and you have to live. You have to
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: sit by this, you know, ten feet from this woman
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: awkwardly for however long you work there right all the
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: way too. She doesn't talk to hr, but she tells
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: all her friends about you, you know. She floats rumors
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: you become person non grata like something below actually losing
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: your job or whatever else and below not quite that bad,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: but still bad. Right, So this is this nice large spectrum.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Am I getting this wrong?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I'm a woman, right, I'm just going from first principles
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: and my ability to actually into it how some other
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: people experience things.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I'm also a writer. That's like my stock in trade,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: you know. So I'm just like just like walking through
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: this in my mind and expressing what I'm seeing. If
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, guys, just tell me, like, am I not
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: coming out of completely order? Like I'm coming from nowhere?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: But anyway, that's what I see. So she's asking because
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: she has developed this interest, and she obviously she can't
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: get her ass up right and walk over to him
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: and be like, hey, right, that that's not possible. She's
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: just throwing like and I assume that's not possible because
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: she's just throwing out this suggestion into the ether. Hey,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: why don't you approach? Yeah, well why don't you approach?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So I assume that she's saying men approach women in
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: the workplace. I assume that's what her thesis is. Cam done,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I'm settled down, I've gone back.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: All right. I do want to read more of the article,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: but I got a rumble rant from robot again for
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a dollar, and he says spreadsheets and charts very traditional
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: for modern ladies in the West, incredibly romantic with dating
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: apps for the ladies not all. Thank you for that. Okay,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: let's do some more reading of this. Only sixteen percent
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: of US workers went on a date with a colleague
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: last year, down from about forty percent in two thousand
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: and nine. So in two thousand and nine, between there
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and today, this went down what by like a third
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: more than a third or two thirds, sorry, more than
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: two thirds. Workplace crushes a surefire way to inject excitement
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: into office mundanity have waned too, with the sharef of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: workers reporting one collapsing from forty nine percent in twenty
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: twenty four to just twenty two percent in twenty twenty five.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: According to a Human Resources Industry Group survey. The decline
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: has been in decades of the making. While about one
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: fifth of adults over fifty met their partners at work,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: only thirteen percent of those eighteen through twenty nine say
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the same. So this is interesting too. They're saying one
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: fifth of adults over fifty, so people who are like
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: gen X or older like my age, met their partners
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: at the job. That's one fifth, which is like twenty percent,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And this dropped down to thirteen percent, but in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: age groups of eighteen to twenty nine, not a massive dip,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: but you can see that the young people are not
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: doing it as much. And of course they're in that
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: age range eighteen to twenty nine where you're probably more
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: likely to engage in workplace romance than if you're in
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: your fifties. Of course, workplace romance was always fraught with
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: its legacy of predatory bosses, favoritism and when things go wrong,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: career retaliation. Years of sexual harassment training and more watchful
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: human resources departments taught us not to go there. About
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a quarter of workers now fear harassment allegations, one industry
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: survey found. So she tells you why this is happening
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: in that paragraph when she says, well, you know, we
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: have always had a legacy of predatory bosses, favoritism, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: career retaliation, so that's like a thing, And then she
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: says years of sexual harassment training and more watchful human
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: resources departments taught us not to go there, and then
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: goes on to say about a quarter of workers now
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: fear harassment allegations. What do you mean by workers. Do
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you mean men? Because that's and then of course one
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: hisstry survey found I think I opened up the Uh yeah,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I did, I have the link. I sent you this
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: to Allison. This is from the Vault. But twenty eighteen
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Vault Office Romance survey results where they found that you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: since me too, like no one's approaching anyone specifically men.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Men are not approaching women at work. Uh and it's
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: dropped like a.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Lot, so hmm, yeah, Okay, So she she doesn't identify
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: as a feminist if the piece runs on feminist register
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: of vocabulary, predatory boss legacy, on ambiguous consent, women in
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: underrepresented minorities is most vulnerable and disproportionately punished. Ye yeah,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: and uh, she's definitely in the progressive cultural commentary meleu. Right,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So she does not identify as a feminist, but I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: really doubt she does not swim in the same waters.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Shall we say no?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent? She Okay, she absolutely I think she
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: is a feminist, but just not an activist, Like she
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: is not active, but she has basically internalized the normy
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: feminist position, which is the average person's view as well.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So like the idea that, Yeah, such harassment was a problem,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you know, Like that's an example, right, like a problem
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that was deserving of like massive you know, like say
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: policy overhauls in the workplace, like HR departments getting men
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: fired or firing getting people fired because they made on
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: somebody else uncomfortable.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Mm hm, which is actually a thing, like I remember
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: looking at this in like two thousand and one or three,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: two thousand and three. Probably they actually made it just
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: if a woman feels uncomfortable, it's astounding. Okay, they changed
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the the criteria for harassment.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: All right, continue, Yeah, I got another Roboto's Rumble rant
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: for two, Thank you Roboto, And he says, if men
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: don't get called in to HR at the corporation, how
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: are men to get the label of bad boy at
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the office? Job? All right? H So, yeah, she's like
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: laying out the groundwork, like, yeah, all this stuff was necessary.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like saying, ah, the me too was
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a good thing. It had to happen, right, But where
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: else in adulthood except the office would you bond with
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the potential paramore you share so much of everyday life with.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Many of my friends' parents met at work, so did
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Barack and Michelle Obama, who met while working at the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: same law firm in nineteen eighty nine, and pop culture
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: has long endorsed office romance too, from Sam and Diane
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and Cheers to Jim and Pam in the Office to
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: more recently Mark and Helly and Severance, Love and Lust.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: You serve professionalism every time. It's weird to bring up
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: fictional TV shows as a way of justifying real life
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: office romances, but you know, here we are as usual.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Mad Men, which unflinchingly depicts what workplace romance and harassment
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: can look like at its worst, still showed Peggy ending
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: up with her colleagues stand at the show's conclusion, so again,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: she doesn't care about like whether or not you know,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a show like mad Men, which is supposedly like telling
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: you something about life in the sixties, whether or not
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: that's true, which you know it's not. We've we've gone
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: over it, and the novel that the show is based
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: on is also like different from the final results of
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: the show. It doesn't matter, though, because women like her
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: are like, yeah, sexual harassment's real, it's bad, and this
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: show shows it. That's how I know it's true because
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I saw it on the fictional TV show, And therefore
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: this is how I know workplace romance is good because
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: they depicted on TV shows, so works like the main character,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: like the guy from the office, he didn't get called
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: into HR and lose his job, you see, So therefore
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you can do this because it happened in the office. Anyway,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: workplace romance offers promising levels of success. More than forty
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: percent of people who date a colleague end up marrying them,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: according to one survey. As young people struggle to meet
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: one another, form relationships, or even have sex, dating our
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: colleagues could be a viable solution to the loneliness crisis
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and sex procession. Meeting at work forces people seeking romance
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to get to know each other platonically. First. Seeing a
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: potential partner's true colors under stress and how that person
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: behaves around people he or she is not attracted to
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: can also be telling Okay, so all that sounds fine, Like, yeah,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's true that a lot of people meet
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: people at a place where they're frequently at, like whether
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: it's work or school or college you know, or or whatever.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Like if you're if you're always at a place, like
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: say you're always going to like I don't know a
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: homeless shelter to help out and volunteer, and there's like
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: other people who are volunteering. You might meet someone there. Right,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: it's in an environment where you're around the same people
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: all the time, then yeah, that's likely to happen. You're
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: likely to make friends that way, and potentially romantic interest
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: that way or like partners. But again after me too,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: we've made that impossible basically at least like mostly impossible,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and men are not doing it because it's too dangerous.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: It's too risky for them, So okay. A lot of
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: the problems with the apps are love lives now hin
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: John pun intended fall by the wayside in the office too,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: when you're bumping into someone by the coffeemaker every morning.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: In person interaction and accountability prevail over digital strategy. The
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: impunity with which someone might treat a stranger met on
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: an app or even in a bar cannot comfortably coexist
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: with guaranteed daily interaction and myriad mutual connections. The workplace
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: ironically humanizes us, at least when compared with dating apps.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that's ironic, Like, are you not
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: human when you're at your job. But anyway, the slow burned,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: surreptitiousness of keeping the romance secret can also bond you
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to a person. Hadrian Shadow Hadrian Chadalat and Lucy Werner,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: a couple who met while working in a London based
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: office thirteen years ago, told me about the excitement of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: staggering their entrances to the office after sleeping at each
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: other's houses, of kicking each other under the desk, and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: of getting more personal in the doorless kitchen at the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: back working all day while waiting to just sneak into
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: a bar or something and be able to be more intimate.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Mister chadle Ay told me brought excitement to the early
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: days of their relationship. That's a common thought. More than
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: ninety percent of people who have had sex with a
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: colleague did not regret it. So she's like laying out
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: all of this like groundwork, right, She's pointing out things
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that are actually unethical, like well, it's it's frowned on
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: in the workplace, which is to like, you know, fool
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: around with someone at work when you're supposed to be
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: on the clock doing work. You know they're sneaking off somewhere,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: or they like tease each other or whatever. I'm not
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: saying you can't do it, but she's taking these things
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: that would normally get a man in a lot of trouble,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and she's treating them like they're kind of like the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: delightful little you know, like fun things, kind of exciting
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: to do at work, like oh, we're gonna get caught,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you know. But she's also not like connecting with why
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: this isn't happening, which has everything you know, how much
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: risk there is you know for men that is.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Specifically Oh yeah, and she's probably citing men and women
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: who had romances decades ago. Well, yeah, she said, what
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: she's talking about sounds like a lot of fun. It
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: sounds like it's very satisfying, you know. I I did
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: a long rant on how this is a much more
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: of the primordial way that men and women developed an
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: interest in each other, would have been working alongside each other,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: you know. And also, like she even mentioned the things
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: that I mentioned, that the guy's showing up every day,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: you get to get to get a sense of who
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: he is, which is something which is another thing we
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: used to be able to do, and it tends to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: create a much more solid and a deeper bond, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: you're you're selecting not just on Duddy hook Good, but
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you're also you're sele electing on things like how he
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: treats other people, how he treats other men, which can
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: be pretty critical, even the women ignore it. How he
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: treats women who you know, the older coffee you know,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the older older ladies in the in the office. How
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: does you get a much more clearer perception of his personality?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: You know, it's it's it's it's a far superior way
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: to meet a man potential versus a day like unbelievably superior.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: It's like the difference between being able to uh, to
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: play your games on like a four K o L
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: a ed screen with perfect black, versus playing your game
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: on one of those radio scope things that they used
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: in like the sixties, I don't know, like the original,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: just a bunch of like led lights on a mainframe
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: play a game of pong. That the dating app is
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: far inferior. It's terrible. It's it's an awful way to
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: meet people, and in particular, it just it it removes
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: all of the ways that you'd actually vet a person,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: knowing how they treat other people, knowing how they deal
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: with stress. She mentioned all of this, She's quite accurate.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: It's all very superior. And it does sound like a
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: workplace romance would be really exciting. Ladies, Oh my god,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: that sounds like it like sounds like something out of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: a romantic comedy. Just incredible, very very exciting, very something
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: that you would remember for the rest of your life,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: as opposed to, you know, exchanging spreadsheets. It sounds romantic.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: It sounds like a moment of almost like a faded
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: quality to it. So much better to Badgie decided to
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: not do it anymore, Like badg you decided to close
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: that off to yourself. To you, like, I mean, that's uh,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a I mean, that was your decision. Ladies,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: It's too bad you don't get this anymore and you
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: don't deserve it anymore because you chose not to have it,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: because you never walked through this entire scenario through men's
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: point of view, nor did you even acknowledge the fact
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: that men have to deal with their own unwanted sexual
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: attention at work too, but they don't commonly complain about it, right,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Like men have to deal with all of the same
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: things that women have to deal with the difference is
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: they don't get it anywhere to complain about it. So
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: what happened is me too ignored male victims focused like
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: a laser on only male perpetrators, created and even worse
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: asymmetry in how male sexuality male sexual approach is treated
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: versus me female sexuality and sexual approach, which probably is
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: partially implicated with the millennial shift. Again, for those of
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: you who are just tuning in, the millennial shift is well,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: how to describe it, Younger women are the rapist people
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: on the planet. They don't understand that it's possible for
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: a woman to rape women of my generation generation X
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: we sort of understand that. I mean, I thought my
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: generation was bad, but apparently we're not. We understand that
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: men can say no and that no should be respected.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: If you're a young woman, you don't understand that that's
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: like patriarchy or something like a man saying no to me.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: That's privilege, right, That's the landscape. Me too is complicit
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: in that in creating that landscape and presenting sexual assault
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: is something that only men do to women. So there
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: was no actual kindness, no compassion, no understanding for the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: male position either as a victim or as somebody who
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: has to go out and take the risks to give
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: you that wonderful, wonderful workplace romance, that satisfying ability to
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: vet your partner by how he behaves. You know, that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: whole Michelle Obama and Michelle and Barack Obama romance and
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: where she got to see how he behaved, you know,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: and they developed an attraction. Yeah, you don't get that anymore, ladies,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And you don't deserve it. So too bad, so sad.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Sounds really great though, Like it really sounds like, you know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: the workplace romance of the past is like a delicious
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Ribbi steak. Yeah, and now you get a bunch of
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: pre chewed u gray ground beef beeflet beefoid. There you go, ladies.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Now you get some mystery meat from the cafeteria instead,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: and enjoy. You chose it, okay. I mean she can
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: go on and on about how wonderful it was, but
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: she and her female friends, maybe not her, but definitely
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: the women that she likely runs with as a contributor
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: to Vogue and part of the London cultural scene. Yeah,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: you chose this. I do not feel bad for you, stuffer.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: And yeah, men don't owe it to you to square
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: this circle, to thread this needle. So you you have
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to just deal with the fact that steak is permanently
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: off the menu, and now you get some kind of
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: soy mystery meet instead, and you have no one else
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: to blame but yourselves. Lady, all right, all right?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Uh back to the article. So the slow burn surreptitiousness
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of keeping the romance secret can on I already read that. Uh,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: dating a colleague does come with unsexy risks too. It
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: can be a distraction, ignite workplace gossip, and grow uncomfortable
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: if things sour. Workplace dynamics are also prime for power imbalances, harassment,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and coercion, especially if one party is the other superior.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: You're talking about men again, but you're not saying men
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: because I don't think a man would have a problem
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: dating a female who was had like a higher position,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: no pun intended. I think that like it's it's often
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: because because feminism doesn't define a female boss in a
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: male employee as a power dynamic that is, you know,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: needs to be deconstructed, right, They only see it when
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it's male boss.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, let me stop you there. Feminism doesn't
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: define a female and a male anything in the same
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: way as it defines. Like literally, there is a very
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: large branch of feminine, very influential, influential that just simply
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: says that women can't consent because men are so powerful
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: in the patriarchy, right, so you don't even need to
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: go with men as the boss. It's just men period.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: And you'll see this in how they describe, for example,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: female prison guards taking advantage of male inmates. And yes,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: it is taking advantage of them, because there's very few
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: relationships with more power asymmetry than a jail like a
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: prison guard and an inmate like the prison guard determines
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: whether or not, for example, you end up in solitary confinement,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and they manage to turn these relationships into the inmates,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the male inmates exploiting the female prison guards. Astounding, isn't it.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: So what am I supposed to take from that? Well,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: First of all, it is a direct inheritance of this
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: whole feminist conjecture that women can't consent at all ever, right,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: But it's also an indication that women have the minds
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of juveniles, right if they're in a position of power
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: and they're being exploited by the people or the men
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: that they have complete power over. What are you to sift?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: What are you to take from that? One? Obviously it's
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: inherited from feminists beliefs about women being unable to consent
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: due to patriarchy. And two, we honestly think that women
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: do not have adult minds, right, but we still insist
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: in putting them in positions of power despite the fact
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: we don't view them as having adult minds. Isn't that
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: interesting anyway? I just wanted to correct you on that, Brian,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: because you're like, oh, a male in power over a woman,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: even if it's a even if it's a woman in power,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: they still think that she's being taken advantage of because
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: they have the most twisted and frankly like the psychotic
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Puritan attitudes towards male sexuality. Like they they have attitudes
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: that you only see with like extreme acetic Christians. Maybe right,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking like general Christians. I'm like that the
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: ones that everybody sort of said go away and like
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the two second century those guys, right, you know, it's
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: like the ones that were like, yeah, you know, we
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: need to actually make little humans, could you please just
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: leave us? Like disappear those guys, the ones who think
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: that the world is created by some evil creature and
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: that sex makes more of people who are imprisoned in it. Yeah,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: that's that's that is the strain that feminism comes from.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: And even the positive the sex so called sex positive
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: feminine is trying to trying to have hot ice by
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: simply saying sex is positive. Well, the women woman's half
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: of sex is positive. The man's half of sex is
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: still negative. How that how that comes out to be
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: sex is positive when half of it is negative? I
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: don't know. And also men's half is really really negative,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: so it should always be under suspicion of doing something,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: being up to something that should send the man to jail.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: So uh, I don't know. If you if you, if
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you like, add a positive number to a larger negative number,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you generally end up with a negative number. So I
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: don't know how female like feminist sex positivity works. It
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: seems more like at best it's sex neutrality. But anyway,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just saying like, go ahead, no, nothing,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: go ahead, I have nothing more to say. I have
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I run myself into the ground.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I am It's okay.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I think we're talking about workplace romance.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we are all right. In the workplace rules that
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: should apply to dating more generally are more critical than ever.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Respectful gentle approaches are paramount, as is proceeding further only
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: with an sorry, as is proceeding further only with unambiguous
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: consent and clear reciprocation. Lateral dating is always going to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: be a safer bed than an unequal power dynamic, and
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: people who are most vulnerable to retaliation or sexism, especially
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: women and underrepresented minorities, may still have more to lose
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: by risking in office romance and may still may be
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: disproportionately punished for it. They might be disproportionately punished guys.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: So you already see the reason why she is experiencing
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: this issue because she has a crush and a guy
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: at work and wants him to approach her at some
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: point or be the one, right, She wants that to happen,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: but she can't do it, and she doesn't think it's
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: She thinks it's because well, obviously something is wrong, but
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: she's okay with what's wrong, because she said lateral dating
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: is always gonna be safer than unequal power dynamics, So
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: she's not, so she knows unequal. She has to like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: pay lip service to the unequal power dynamic, She has
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to pay lip service to the to the sexism and
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: harassment at work, and she has to pay lip service
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: to women and quote underrepresented minorities end quote, which just
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: means women again just like more women women, I guess uh.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: And and that those people she's also reframing it as
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: those are the people, the women, the people who don't
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: have the power and the uppers and underrepresented minorities are
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the ones that are gonna be disproportionately punished or in
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: office romance, who did the me too movement? Eliminate who
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: was targeted by that? Was it women? Was it underrepresented minorities?
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Underrepresented being the key word here? Was it or was
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: it people that were like that had some authority? Was
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: it men? Was it bosses? Was it people at a
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: higher level? That? And this is like setting aside whether
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: or not any of the allegations are credible, because a
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: lot of guys just lost their job because they just
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: wanted them out. See Luke Weber, who's been on the
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: show many times, who used to work for you know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: various animation studios and they got rid of him because
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: he was an obstacle. And it just so happens that
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: there was a union that was trying to put more
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: women in positions of power and the Me Too movement
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: served that. Just fine, So what are we talking about here? Like,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm saying? Like what is she saying?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: She's obviously trying to make two contradictory ideas coexist in
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: her brain at the same time.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: All right, And this is why I say she deserves
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: the situation. Yeah, she's talking about how much better it
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: is to have her workplace for romance. Well, you can
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: lament that on your own, lady, like you can lament
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: that as much as you want, but you are creating
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: the situation that killed it because you refuse to look
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: at how it affected men. And again, I don't think
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: that may too is legitimate in any capacity. If it
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: was legitimate, it would have included male victims, and it
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: would have included advocacy for men who have to deal
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: with this kind of stuff too. It didn't, so it
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: was completely illegitimate. And again it was just another bush
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: to demonize men. Well, you've demonized them, and you've demonized
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: them to the point where you're no longer getting the
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: thing that you found so romantic in the past. And I,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: for one, you know, I feel bad for men because
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't get partners either, But I don't
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: feel bad for this woman. I think that she should
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: spend every night of her life thinking about what she
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: lost until all she has, you know, is a cat
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: and the fact that she will never retire because we've
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: financialized a way the pension plan as a society. And honestly,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: when you say that me too was used to just
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: get men out of jobs that women wanted or that
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: they wanted women to get into, that doesn't surprise me
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: at all, because changing the climate the workplace is the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: first step changing it towards positional signaling and in group
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: out group, and permanently putting men who generally are responsible
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: for producing actual stuff, not just selling the symbols of stuff,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: which is financialization, which is the financial fatburg that I
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: talk about constantly. You know, marginalizing those people is an
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: essential first step to actually creating a situation where you
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: can pursue financial extraction right and you can start rent
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: seeking off of needed services or products. So I'm not
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: surprised it always goes one way, and that way is
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to marginalize the people who actually do the thing, people men,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: the men who actually do the thing, in favor of
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: the ones who are just gonna rent seek off of
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: it or rent seek off of DEI initiatives DII and
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: ESG and initiatives. Well, okay, all right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: In the workplace, rules that should apply to dating more
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: generally are more critical than ever respectful gentle approaches. Already
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: read that part, didn't I sorry? While a workplace romance
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: can cause all kinds of problems, almost two thirds of
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: managers believe their teams benefited when colleagues dated, according to
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: an industry survey, and despite some evidence of product productivity declines,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: there's little to suggest that those who are infatuated with
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: or heartbroken because of a colleague are less productive than
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: those who are merely infatuated or heartbroken at the hands
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: of someone else. While it can be messy, multiple women
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: competed over my workplace crush, with one jokingly saying we
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: should let the best woman win. It makes you want
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: to show up for work and imbues getting dressed in
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: the morning with giddy anticipation. Did you catch that? Should
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I read it again?
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Did you catch that.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, I caught it. Let me just read it again
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: for you guys that are watching, because this is crucial
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: and it exposes something else she said here. Okay, First
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: of all, she says two almost two thirds of managers
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: believe that their teams benefit when colleagues are dating, Which
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: makes sense, right, because there's more anticipation and desire to
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: go to work because you might see the person you're
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: involved with there. And there was a study done that
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: demonstrates this. Now that sounds fine. Like I said, you know,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: you may not want to date people you work with,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: And let's set aside the me too thing for a moment,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and even set aside the romance aspect of this, because
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of people make friends at their job too.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: In fact, I think that's actually more likely the case
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: than the romance part. And in general, if you work
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: with people you like, then you're probably gonna be more productive,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: especially if you all are like, sort of aiming towards
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: the same vision. So imagine you're working at a company
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: where you know, maybe you were there at the ground level,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: maybe you knew the people involved, Maybe you just care
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: about what it is they're doing. You just want to
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: help them succeed because you like it and it's not
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: just some like job where you're a drone sitting in
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a cubicle and you're completely disconnected from the people at
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the top. Uh. And I think that there's more of
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the of the former jobs in the ladder. I think
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of people focus on the ladder, but I
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of small businesses that are
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: local that you know where they're and they're doing good
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: stuff and you want to work with them. You know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: whether it's I don't know whatever it is, but like
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: if you're going to work and you're I think that
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: it's good that the people who work together like each other.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like a seems like a you know,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: an obvious thing to say, but I think it's true.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's definitely good for business if
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: the people who work there like each other, and if
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: they get involved with somebody, potentially even better assuming it
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: works out, because if it doesn't, then that's gonna be
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: you know, bad. But then again, just like she said,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: if you were involved with somebody outside of work and
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: it didn't work out, you're probably it's gonna hurt your
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: productivity as well, like it would anyone when their heart
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: is broken. So all that is true. Now, the part
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: that's really interesting is where she says multiple women competed
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: over my workplace crush, with one jokingly saying we should
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: let the best one win. So what does that tell you?
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: That tells you that the person that she had a
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: crush on a lot of other women also had a
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: crush on. So this is more of this. You know,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: most women going for the top man, and it just
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: so happens that this guy works in this company and
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: there's all these women at the workplace that are all
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: they all have their eyes on him. So the women
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: who work here, they want to be able to approach
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: or be approached, not necessarily approach, they want to be
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: involved with a certain man that's at their workplace. And
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: they are aware that he is not going to do anything,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: probably because of all of the stuff that HR and
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: me to movement has done, and they're lamenting that, but
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: they're still saying, man, he should just do it. Like
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: they're trying to like figure out a way to hopefully
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: this guy sees it and he decides to take a
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: risk and go and ask a girl out or something.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: But they're not going to do it themselves. They're acknowledging
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: that they're hypergamus and they're all going for like the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: same guy. And they're also acknowledging that the met to
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: movement has made it basically unworkable for men to do this.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: In that one sentence, multiple women competed over my workplace crush.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: That tells you everything you need to know about where
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: this woman's head is at, what it is that she wants,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: and why she wrote this article in my opinion anyways.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if you want to say anything
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: to that, Allison, or is that not a revelation that
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't surprise you?
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Or what was the revelation? Again, because I was looking
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: at my I actually hold the comments.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: What was the revelation is that the guy she has
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: a crush on is the same guy that a bunch
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: of other people at her job also has a crushing. Yeah,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: so she she wants that guy to basically approach She
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't I don't think she says it in this article,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: but she would like to live in a world where
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: that guy feels like he could approach and that he
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: will approach her. And she's trying to essentially lay out
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: the case as to why despite the fact that the
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Me Too movement and HR departments and harassment policies, all
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: these things are absolutely good and necessary, but that guy
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: should still ask me out anyways, because I definitely won't
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: get him fired, promise, But I'm not going to tell
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you to do it, because I want you to make
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: the first move. And he's not going to do it. Ye. Sorry.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: You know, she can want it as much as she wants,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: but it's just not the world you live in now, lady.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: And I would I think men already know this, and
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: they're already withdrawing from making this stuff happen, right, And
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about this in terms of you know,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: there is the World Health Organization, the UN has said
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: that sexual satisfaction is a human right, of course, only
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: for women. I mean they don't say explicitly like it's
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: only for women, but of course all their initiatives are
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: only about making the consequences of pursuing sexual satisfaction for
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: women disappear. And I was actually analyzing this, and I
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: was thinking, the reason why the only thing that women
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: have to concern themselves with in terms of paying for
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: their sexual satisfaction is the consequences of sex is because
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: men do everything else. They've basically provided a utility for
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: women that women can access whenever they want, and they
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: get no credit for it, right, And they don't even
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: get recognition that they don't have access to the very
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: utility that they provide for women, which is sexual access. Right,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Bonnie Blue would never be able to engage in her
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: horrific demonic stunt if women are sorry, men didn't generally
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: provide sexual access to women just as a matter of course, right,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, you'll find a man who's interested, right
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: if you want that, Okay, So just as a matter
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: of course, men provide this for women, and it's the
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: only reason why women can then complain about the negatives
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: of that access.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like only women get plumbing water plumbed
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: into their houses, so only they can complain that it's
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: not working or their basement is flooded, right, And nobody
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: is talking about the fact of who provides that and
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: what it means when ben themselves don't get access to
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: the very thing that they provide to women, especially in
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: the context of sexual satisfaction being a human right. I'm
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: not sure why this popped up in my head. But
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: it feels like she's occupying that frame. She's saying a
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: workplace romance is sort of the same kind of thing.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: She has an entitlement to it or something, or is
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: she just saying, ah, I miss it, which is I
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: guess more defensible, But regardless, she's not considering all of
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the effort that went onto men to provide that for women,
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Like that whole romantic thing about Michael or Michelle God
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: damn sorry guys, Michelle and Barack Obama, right, the whole
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: romantic story about them who provided that brock who made
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: the effort, who stepped up, who threatened to leave his
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: job if she didn't say yes, he did, right, he
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: was making the effort. Is this is men stepping up,
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: providing a utility, making workplace romance is possible for women,
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: and then women complaining about the downside of this. Oh,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: the utility isn't delivered properly. My basement's flooded. I don't know,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: there's tree roots in the sewer outside, so whatever, Right,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: all the negatives of this utility being delivered without ever
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: recognizing who's delivering it in the first place, or the
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: situation under which they are expected to deliver it because
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: now women are like, well, I don't know, men should
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: be able to deliver us running water while running while
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, running through a for getting around my
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: moat full of alligators. And they just keep upping the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: ante and making it more and more difficult for men
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: to provide this thing which they never even had any
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: gratitude or understanding for in the first place, because even
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Michael or sorry, even Barack Obama had to make an effort,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: had to risk rejection over and over again, apparently, right,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: he had to do that to make it happen. So
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: even in the eighties, remember, we're doing a hell of
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of unrecognized labor relationship labor to even make
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: these workplace relationships happen, completely unrecognized. So that's never put
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: into the equation. It's always, oh, the utility wasn't delivered
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: exactly to my specification, right, it wasn't quite what I wanted,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: It wasn't quite acceptable. It's always the negatives. Never the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: huge amount of effort men had to put in and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: they now have to put in while attempting to traverse
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: the alligator filled moat of hr that that feminists and
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: women decided they wanted to dig and phil and say no,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: now you, now you need to do this for us.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Not only did you have to run the field of
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: rejection and effort, now you gotta do it while vaulting
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: the alligator pit. It's like like and and if if men,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: if this is the problem, if men figure out how
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: to vault the alligator pit, the women will deploy the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: venomous snake field. And then when men figure out how
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: to wiggle through the venomous snake field, women will deploy
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: the giant wall of spikes, covered in covered in UH
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and test and melting acid. And they'll just keep upping
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: the fucking anti. And why are they fupping I keep
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: fupping pupping the fucking fun Why are they upping the
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: fucking anti? Because feminism has told them that being selected
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: by a man is self annihilation. So there's this constant
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: freakin' arms arms race between men's effort, which, understandably they're
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, no, this is this is this is
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: far too much, ladies. Now we walk away. And women's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: own neuroticism, this, this spark of neuroticism started by feminism,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: with this whole heterosexuality is the site of female oppression. Therefore,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: a relationship with a man is self annihilation, and if
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: you choose it, you're a fool. That's the thing, right.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: If a woman chooses a relationship with a man, she's
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: a pick me. And what's a pick me? A gigantic
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: fool who's been taken advantage of by those that horrible
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: other half of the human race that we need to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: actually produce more of ourselves. Doesn't matter. She's a fool.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: So it's better to be a conquest than a fool.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: So it's better to be claimed by a man, by
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: a man who's willing to ford the alligator moat despite
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: you putting it out ladies being like, I don't want
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: to you, and then he fords the alligator mote and
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I really don't want you. So you
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: deploy the field of venomous snakes and he manages to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: get through that. Oh I hate you so much, don't
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: catch me. So you get the gigantic wall of spikes
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: covered in intestine melting acid, and he manages to get
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: through that because he's a freaking stalker named Jacob with
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: a gigantic surveillance company which he got from a government
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: grant and he deployed only to stock Nadine. You guys
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: don't know that reference. It's a feminist romance, stalker porn romance.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, And that's the fantasy, is that women get
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: to be claimed and they never have to choose a man,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: because choosing a man is being complicit with your own oppression,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: and only fools do that. And I swear to God,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: if we keep this bullshit alive, we're gonna be back
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: to like Helen of Troy, where a man has to
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: actually kidnap a woman to marry her, and it'll be
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: because of feminists. Feminists increasing like this arms race between
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: men's willingness to do this crap and women upping the
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: ante over and over and over again because they are
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: insecure about choosing a man, because if they choose a man,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: that means they're complicit with their own oppression and a fool.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: So really we're all evolving. This culture is evolving towards rapeine.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Let's let's return not return to monkey, it's return to rapine.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: The opening salvo for a man will be kidnapping a woman,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: and I swear to freaking God, the feminists will finally
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: shut up. I mean, I'm as a as a woman.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I'm sort of out of the whole thing.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if that would suit me. But
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: I've always enjoyed autonomy. Feminists seemed to find it a
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: source of existential horror. But anyway, let's uh, let's continue
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: with this.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Seriously, don't I seriously don't think they're gonna shut up.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: But okay, yet, not gonna shut up. No, it'll just
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: they'll just blame.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Them. Men can't do enough to free them from the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: horrors of freedom. Even kidnapping them insufficient. They'll have to
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: put them in as a brain in a jar or something.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Almost everyone is frustrated with app mediated romance.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Dating a coworker is not a surefire fix, but it's
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: certainly worth a shot. We never should have given a
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: blanket warning against dating our colleagues. Doing so asks us
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: to repress our humanity. My office crush may may not
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: have worked out, so he didn't say he didn't ask
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: her out, is what she's saying. He asked somebody else
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: out maybe, or he met somebody on the dating app.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: My office crush may not have worked out, but it
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: brought joy and human connection to a space so often
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: devoid of it. Many office romances do risky and noughty
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: as failing, risky and naughty, as falling for a colleague
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: can be. It's also organic and inevitable. So okay again,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: let's go back over this. So she says, almost everyone
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: is frustrated with ap mediated romance. Okay, that's true. I
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: know the true for men for sure. Then she says,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: we never should have been given a blanket warning against
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: dating our colleagues. So the calls for something to be
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: done about sexual harassment in the workplace that basically created
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: HR departments. You know that the HR thing, I think
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: it like exploded in the nineties, and feminism was at
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: like a peak at that point too, Like we were
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: experiencing a lot of politically correct I don't know, cultural enforcement,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I guess, or nudging. I wonder if there isn't a
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: connection between these things, because I mean, politically correct just
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: means don't make women feel uncomfortable, That's all it means.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that can make women feel
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable a lot is a man who is unworthy talking
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: to a woman. I mean, that's it, Like, it doesn't
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: matter what he would say, it's just that if she
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: finds him icky and he talks to her, she can
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: basically say that he's harassing her. And she is basically like, man,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we've that was probably not a great idea,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: but y'all did it anyway. So she now she's basically
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: making the defense that well, it's organic and defense is
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: inevitable in the midst of a backlash against our tech
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: induced culture of optimization, ease in productivity, It's time we
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: recognize that love cannot be repressed for the sake of
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: a profit first environment. Now she's blaming corporations for the
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: environment that she likely helped create, for the climate of
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: men not talking to women at work because they don't
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: want to lose their job from the me too movement
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: getting men fired who weren't actually like, you know, asking
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: women out or harassing them at work. They were just
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: an obstacle that was blocking a woman's potential career. And
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: she said, well, let's get rid of him. And now
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: she's saying, no, no, this isn't because of us, This
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: isn't because of HR departments or or feminist you know,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: ideas about the ways that men and women relate to
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: each other. This has nothing to do with that. It's
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: everything to do it. It's corporations that are the problem. It's corporations.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: That's why people are not dating, because corporations are interested
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: in optimizing profits. Completely out of left field, by the way,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: completely irrelevant because she yeah, that's what she said. She
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: said in the midst of a backlash against our tech
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: induced culture of optimization, ease and productivity. It's time we
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: recognize that love cannot be repressed for the sake of
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: a profit first environment. So she's almost retarded.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean yeah, but the thing is the profit
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: first is the the using feminism as a firewall to
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: create an extraction regime. Now that's a bit more rarefied.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's something that you know, I'm sure any
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: person is just wandered ins like, what the heck is
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: she talking about. But it's essentially it's the moral busy
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: bodies providing cover for the robber barons. So the robber
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: barons never have to sleep because they rob with full
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: full benefit of their conscience, full absolution of their conscience. Right,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: So that's that's the situation that the feminists are the
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: busybodies giving cover to the robber barons, and then the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: the The casualty of all of this is para bonding
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: as men who actually are interested in having a relationship
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: with a woman being able to jump all these hurdles
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: that HR has created. And of course she's situating it
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: in a profit mode. Is there a point where corporations,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: like in the past, didn't want to profit like you?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I will criticize corporations for profiting off of financialization,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: by stock buybacks, fed backstopping, you know, all of this
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: kind of chicanery, But I'm pretty sure that corporations have
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: wanted to profit. I mean, these forms of profiting, you
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: know what I look at scance at. But for most part,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: corporations have wanted to profit since corporations began. I'm pretty
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: sure companies definitely wanted to profit since companies began, the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: concept of that began. I mean, why would suddenly now
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: corporate profit be anti love? Oh no, I know exactly
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: what she's doing. She's just signaling in the relational web.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to make sense, that doesn't have to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: be a causal connection. She's just signaling against the bad
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: guys that her relational web agrees are all bad the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: very profit moded c suite, who probably was the guy
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: that all these women were drooling over.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Let's be honest, what the boss?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Oh man? Yeah, well, I mean she's what did she say,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: the man that they all wanted. There was a bunch
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: of them on them.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the same guy. It was like all
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: of her, all of her, the one that she had
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: a workplace crush on. A bunch of other women also
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: had a workplace cush Do.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: You think that was from accounting? I don't know, or
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: you know, like chat.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, this is the last person. Yeah, well yeah, again,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: she's she doesn't want to blame the me too movement,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: sexual harassment policies, home human resources, or like the feminist
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: ideology that backs and sort of supports all of that,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: so she just says this generic like, oh, it's because
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: corporations are chasing profits. No, it's it's.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I said.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: She even said earlier in it. She even said earlier
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: in the article that many bosses think that when people
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: are are you know, close to people they work with,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: their productivity goes up. So if it was about that,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: then they wouldn't create that. This would not be an obstacle,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: like there wouldn't be these obstacles, right, So it's because
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: of HR departments and the me too movement and basically
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: the feminist idea about many male behavior.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Why does she think it suddenly happened after those things
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: got worse since h Well, she's.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: She's not acknowledging it. She's pretending like she's trying to
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: basically make excuses for it. That's what it is. She's
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: making an excuse for the adviceron that she created.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, what I'm trying to get at is she's not
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: wrong that it is corporate profit. It's just she's missing
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of steps.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that the way you arrived at
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: that and the way she's arriving that are completely different.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: She just saying the same answer that you're saying. No, no,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: not at all, You're no, it's not even close. She
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: is making a very generic normy like NPC talk point
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: statement corporations profits, m you know, repressing humanity. You're talking
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: about something else entirely, and it's not. And again, it's
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: not as if every corporation is doing that. In fact,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: it's probably most of them are not. But she is
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: making a generic blanket statement because she's trying to, as
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: you say, signal, but it's also to run cover for
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: her and her and her people's you know, worldview, because
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: that's what made this because again she establishes she's a
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: feminist in the article she said earlier, Oh, I think
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: me to movement's good. Oh I think sexual harassment's bad.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Oh I think power dynamics are bad. Oh I think
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: the historically it's always been worse for women and marginalized people.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Oh you know, it's all of this like like laying
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: out the groundwork, like all this land acknowledgment stuff like
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: and then at the end and she even says, well,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: here's actually it's like she's trying to convince some people
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: that she would otherwise hate her for saying suggesting that
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: men should approach women at work. Again, so she's like, well,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: let's let's look at the let's look at the data.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, these guys say that, you know, if you
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: meet somebody at work, it actually could be really good
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: for the two of you and for the for the
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: company you work at too. So you know, maybe we
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: made a mistake when we basically laid out this giant
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: blanket statement that men should never approach women at work ever,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: under any circumstances. I think, well, maybe you think maybe
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: we went a little bit too far with that. I mean, look,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: I'm totally behind what me too did. I think it's fantastic.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: And I hate sexism at work. I hate it like
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: way more than anybody here in the room does. I'm
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: really against that stuff, and I really think that, you know,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: we should like definitely, I believe inequality and equal pay,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: and like she might as well listen off all the
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: feminist talking points that she wants for women. But then
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: she's like, but can we have men? Like? Can we
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: let the guy I have a crush on approach me
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: without you guys firing him? Oh he didn't want me anyway.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: But you know what, I still believe that this is
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: probably a good thing if it weren't for those pesky
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: corporations and their profits.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Zerialer everyone.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I know that you have
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: like a certain like you you see this from your
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: own research and where it has came up. But you
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: must understand, Alison, you're the only person that has that view.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: No one else writing articles is gonna land there if
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: they criticize corporations, even if their answer sounds the same
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: as yours, it's not the same. They're just laying out
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: these very safe like it's the safest thing you can
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: just say, you know, I hate Nazis. No one's gonna
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: say that's bad. You shouldn't do that. They're saying the
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: same thing. Corporations be greedy. Everyone's just like, yup, yup, yup,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: yup yup. No questions asked, no new wants. Oh that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: that you know what? That explains everything? Everything about me too,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: and the harassment and guys getting fired and entire departments
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: shutting down because a bunch of men lost their job
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: and they gave it all to women because the union
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: got involved, and the union was like, we need fifty
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: representation of women, but if we have more than fifty percent,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: that's okay too. And that just happened all over the
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: country and they're like, yeah, but but the corporations, greedy corporations. Yeah,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: that's what it is. That's what it is. Don't think
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: about it too much. Don't think about it too much.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Brian, you have this. My trains have been mentioned.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I'm just telling you that
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: if you say, you say these people are right, it's
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: going I'm just saying she's not wrong.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: She's not wrong. She has arrived at it through the
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: most convoluted, relationally webbed retardation possible. But there is an
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: argument than to be made that it was indeed corporate
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: profits that ruin the workplace. And I will make it
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: now before everybody starts lighting their pitchforks. All right, I'm
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: not talking about corporations that actually produce a product. I'm
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: talking about corporations who are in the process of financializing
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: what's left of productive, the productive layer, right, so, engaging
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: in stock buybacks, engaging an investment from like these gigantic
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: ESG and DEI funders, and all that kind of other stuff.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: There is an argument to be made that they used
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: feminism as a firewall to exclude ude any voice in
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: the room that would say something like, we can't sell
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: four hundred paper ounces of silver, we can only secure
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: one ounce of the metal. Any voice like that who
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: automatically looks at the symbol of the thing and sees
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: the substrate behind it, such as in the waterline test. Okay,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: so you look at a drawing of a glass, this
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: is the water line test. It's basically two drawings. One
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: is a drawing of a glass, very simple drawing of
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: a glass on a desk, with a blue line indicating
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: the water level which is horizontal to the bottom of
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: the page and the desk that it's on. And then
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: there's another drawing of the same water glass tilted forty
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: five degrees and the test is you draw a blue
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: line where the water level is. Now. Men pass this
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: test for the most part. There's a few men who
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: seem to struggle with it, but for the most part,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: men pass this test. They will draw the water line
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: horizontal to the ground to the table because they understand gravity.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: There is a not insignificant number of women who cannot
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: pass this test, and they will draw the water line
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: not horizontal to the table that the glass is resting on,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: but parallel to the bottom of the glass. When the
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: drawing of the glass is tilted forty five degrees from
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: the table. You understand if you can visualize this all right.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: And the reason why they do that is because when
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: you present them with the symbol of the thing, they
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: think that they think that is the thing. Okay, So
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: you present them with the symbol of the thing, and
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, there's no further to go. And if
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: you tilt that symbol, then it's simply just the symbol tilted.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: But if you show this to a man, he is
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: going to look at the symbol of the thing and say,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: this is a representation of a system that exists underneath
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: the symbol. Right, And when you manipulate the object that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: this symbol represents, the waterline changes. Thus I have to
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: illustrate the updated system in this symbol. Right, So the
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: system updates. The waterline continues to be horizontal to the ground,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: but forty five degrees to the container. And he draws
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: that because he understands that the symbol needs to be
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: updated according to the substrate. It's not just the thing.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: He doesn't stop there, it's just the symbol. But you
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: see how that getting a whole bunch of people in
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: a in a room who don't see beyond the symbol
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: really facilitates an economy that's entirely about the manipulation of symbols.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: And if you have some dude walk into that room
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: and he sees beyond the symbol and says, hey, you
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: are selling four hundred symbols of something that you only
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: have one of that seems slightly unethical. That guy would
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: really be raining down on the parade of all of
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: the financialization extractors in the room. See like, you get
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: the guy, you know, the guy from the shop, the
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: guy from the line, and he just walks in. The
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: guy from the refinery. He walks in and he's like,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: you got four hundred symbols of this thing, but you
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: only got one of it. This is going to end
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: badly for you, because what if all of the four
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: hundred people you sold this symbol to want the one
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: thing that you have all at once? What happens? Then
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: you have a short squeeze and you all blow up
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: your p and L. But nobody wants to listen to that, dude,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: So what do you do?
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: Man, splainer, old pale and mail right in cell Chad,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: get out of the room.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: You're taking the vibe down. You just don't have a
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: cultural fit harassment. I feel uncomfortable. And he's gone and
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: you can continue on your merry way selling symbols knowing
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: that nobody in the fucking room can see past that
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: symbol to what's underneath it, because they're all women except
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: for you. You're the man who knows exactly what's up, but
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: you don't give a fuck about the women or the
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: people you're selling these symbols to. You just give a
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: fuck about increasing your bottom line, which is why the
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: CEO pay. Over the last however many decades that feminism
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: has trotted into the workplace, has gone from twenty to
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: thirty times to two hundred to three hundred times and
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: comes some places six hundred times because of this, because
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: these guys they know, they know exactly what they're doing.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: They know exactly why they're staffing HR and PR and
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: the firewall that keeps all of those those chads, and
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: they're boring understanding of what symbols actually represent out of
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: the room. They know what they're doing, and that's why
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: you can honestly say corporate profits are what's causing it,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: because a symptom or a subsidiary effect of all of
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: this is you have to destroy the relationship between women.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: You have to give HR the ability to constantly kick
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: chuds out of the room so you don't have to
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: deal with their opinion about you selling infinite numbers or
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: infinite symbols of the thing without any consideration of what
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: those symbols represent you gotta keep hicking them out of
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: the room, which requires hr which acquires the constant threat
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: of harassment, which requires a rule that you know, if
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: the child makes them women feel uncomfortable, he's got to go.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: So he's constantly walking on eggshells, constantly feeling like he's
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: on borrowed time. And many of many of these guys
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: won't even speak up. I didn't want to lose their
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: job for man explaining or making an uncomfortable cultural climate.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: And that's how we fucked ourselves, guys. And I think
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: that the problem with the relationship between men and women,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: particularly in the workplace, just a side effect of a
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: whole bit of like a group of financial extractors wanting
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: to create the fat Berg defeat off of and they
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: found out that feminism was the best way to do it,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: the best way to sort of terraform the culturalvironment for
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: them to set up shop and start sucking. All. Right,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: there you go, I have completed my autistic rant on trains.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: I will be right now.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Well, there's only a little left in this, so I'll
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: just finish this off. Okay. So, in the midst of
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: a backlash against our tech induced culture of optimization, ease
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: in productivity. It's time we recognize that love cannot be represented.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry it cannot be repressed for the sake of
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: a profit first environment. The people we spend half our
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: waking lives alongside are probably a safer bet than strangers.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: So why not ask your colleague out. At the very least,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: you're more likely to marry them than your hinge match.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Actually you could lose your job though. And I don't
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: think I can look at the comments here because this
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: is an archive link. But you said that you had comments.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: I have them. I can give you guest answers because
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: I got them in. I got him in punished Claude,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: and I can pattern match on things. I can tell
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: you that the majority of the people who talked about
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: this situation and actually described problems were men. Men describing
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: how their jobs, they lost their jobs or they had
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: to quit because they approached a woman. And they say
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: that they did it respectfully, because that's the first thing
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: that they always attack, because if a woman just loses
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: her shit. You know, a woman who's primed to regard
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: a man approaching her as like the death of herself
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: by feminist theory, right, feminist conjecture, because you know, it's
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: the sight of an objectification and all of that other
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: stuff just loses her shit or is just a vengeful woman, right,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: or if she feels offended by the fact that he
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: expressed any interest in her at all and just decides
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: to punish him for it. Okay, all of this stuff happens,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: but people will say, oh, you just didn't do it
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: respectfully enough. If you had been respec backful, this wouldn't
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: have happened to you, which is like, it's it's a
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: no win. But anyway, most of the people who were
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: most of them were men talking about ending up on
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: the meathook realities of hr because they had approached a
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: woman respectfully, Like, I'm pretty sure they're not going out
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: and hooliganizing. Probably they would have been a better they
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: would have done better if they had like, but but
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: you know, this is the situation. These guys were ruined
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: because they approached a woman. And interestingly enough, there are
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: some people who talk about a good thing happening but
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: get but here's here's the thing. The people who talk
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: about positives from workplace romances are women and older, older people. Okay,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: so people who were married by the time May Too
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: came about. Those are the two that's the demographic category
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: women because they don't experience the negatives. I'm gonna be
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: really honest here, they don't. I mean, the harassment that
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: women complain about is so rarefied, like genuine harassment, not
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: just human awkwardness. It's so rare, and they have recourse.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: And even in this article, which basically calls out women
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: and minorities as being the ones most harmed by this situation,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: even in this article, the comments only surface like three women,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: two of which reframe like well, one of which was like,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: I was approached by three men over the course of
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: my career, two of which you know, quote unquote froze
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: me out, which you know, if you translate that from
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: relational web speak to man speak, basically, they just probably
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: felt awkward around her after you know what I mean, Brian, Yeah,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: just didn't know how to deal with it, so they
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: just either got quiet or just stop responding just because
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: it was embarrassing. But of course she's a relational web thinker,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: so she has to see it in terms of a passive,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: aggressive campaign against her, rather than just men getting their
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: feelings hurt and just wanting to move on, and then
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: one guy who managed to keep it for professional So
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: we have one example of a woman who had two
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: awkward experiences as a result of being asked out and
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: one relatively professional one. Okay, and then we have another
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: woman who says I was stocked and cornered in the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: copier room. Now here's the problem with these kinds of confessional,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: these anonymous confessionals. They always stop at the worst, right,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: So this is the worst, And apparently what happened is
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: from the copy the copier room like cornering is the
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: guy had an awkward conversation with her based on some
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: kind of she says it intentionally misunderstood convert like thing
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: that she said, right, And I don't know about you,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: but an awkward conversation is just the cost of being human.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: I've had plenty. And then the other one was a
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: woman who was dealing with persistent nos which I would
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: point out is exactly the Obama, the Barack and Michelle
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Obama story, because he had to keep asking her over
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: and over again. So I guess it's romantic if it
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: ends positively, but if it's a sex pest, it's a
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: horrible life destroying event. But those are the three surf
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: this article that exclusively framed this in terms of minorities
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: in women being harmed by it. That's all it could surface.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: And then the majority of what it surfaced was men
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: saying I lost my job, I got socially ostracized. I
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: had to quit because of this situation that you're asking
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: me to run the gauntlet for to bring you this
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: utility that you never appreciated in the first place. Because
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: that's the funny, that's the final line here. All of
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: these work praise romances in the past were a lot
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: of elbow grease for some dude. So they were bringing
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: the utility into the workplace for women to enjoy. No
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: appreciation of that just looked at the negatives. Created an
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: entire movement ignoring male victims and ignoring the amount of
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: work that men do and how many times it doesn't
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: end in disaster or doesn't end with being able to
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: work leverage to get women in jobs that the men
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: have to vacate, whatever, you know, ignoring all of that,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: seeing it very one sided, creating even greater risk because
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: she talks about corporate profit right, And I explained how
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: corporate profit could be seen. But the more concrete and
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: pragmatic answer to that is that you raised the costs
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: of men providing this utilitated women to such a point
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: that men no longer want to take the effort, And
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: then you've also decreased the value of what they get
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, because I've heard young
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: men say they look at women and they just don't
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: even bother because it's just exhausting the idea of even
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: being in a relationship with a woman. It's just exhausting.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: Like it's astounding, isn't it. Young men look at women
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: now and they are exhausted. That is the overwhelming feeling
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: they have is exhaustion. Like that was not the case.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure when me and Brian were young, I
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: don't recall that, but it's the case now. So not
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: only have they increased the costs of men approaching women,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: they have decreased the actual benefit for men to do so.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: So men are like, well, why should I deliver this utility? Right?
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: Women's sexual satisfaction relies on men doing a lot of
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: work delivering a utility to women. Why should they do it?
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: At this point, I know some men will continue to
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: trial though it seems like it's getting less and less
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: and less. But why should they wasn't appreciated when it
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: did it, and then it was subject to a gigantic
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: slur campaign that made it even more dangerous to do.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: So why And I just I want to point out
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: that she has absolutely no sympathy for men, no at all, Like,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: why would you even want like this dude who's got
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: who's being orbited by a bunch of women. Why would
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: this dude want this woman in his life? Right? Okay,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: so this is look at the framing a symmetry. Okay,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: she has zero understanding. She registers male rejection looks maxing
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: as men trying to evade being turned down and hikimori,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: hiki komori, the grass eaters. Yeah yeah, the young men
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: who wall themselves into their bedrooms. So it's not like
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: she does recognize some things, but the framing women's rejection
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: response she renders sympathetically self blame, weighing themselves, asking friends
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: what's wrong with their profile. Men's rejection response she roots
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: through threat in sells, blaming feminism and women, sometimes culminating
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: of violent extremism, which is the language that increases the
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: cost for men to approach women at all. Let's be honest. Here,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: she's literally saying, hey, men, why don't you approach while
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: she slaps a baseball bat into the palm of her hand.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: Come on, guys, approach, I won't use my mace on
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: your skull. Come on. And she doesn't understand why it's
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: not working. All right, Some men's rejectory response sometimes culminating
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: and violent extremism. Men channel loneliness into aggression, and that
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: a lonely society is a dangerous one. Women who are
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: rejected are wounded. Men who are rejected are dangerous. Oh god, damn,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: it's it. It's like you look at these women and
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: their brain has been rotted out by feminism. So they
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: literally think that spouting off threats to men is going
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: to attract men, Like saying to men, your loneliness causes
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: you to be dangerous is going to attract men. Right, Oh,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: women are victims of this situation of being approached by men,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: So approach women, men like no understanding of the causality
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: in her speech. She's a perfect She's a perfect node
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: in the firewall to prevent anybody who understands, who can
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: solve the waterline test from speaking. Oh, okay, did you
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: want to add anything to that?
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: No, you're I said most of what I wanted to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: say while I was reading the article.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it is like I have said in the
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: past that the human race will either have a future.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes, if the rest of the world doesn't
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: dis like crush the Amish, maybe, But you know, if
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: our civilization is going to have a future, is any
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: civilization is going to have a future, you cannot have that.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: End feminism. That's I'm not saying. I'm not saying it
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: has acted well. From my research. It has nothing to
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: do with women working, women being educated, women having income,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: because they have always done that. There's only been like
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: twenty years in human history where the luxury good known
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: as a housewife was available to anyone, like twenty year period. Okay,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: it's the only time that women couldn't work, that women
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: of a certain class in a certain country didn't have
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: to work, and there was a lot of them, and
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: everything shitty has come out of it. So never do
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: it again, guys. Make sure she's always got little bulls
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: to clean for the rest of eternity. But anyway, that
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: one moment in time is not historically the norm. All right,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: So this isn't about women having jobs, it's not about
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: women having education. It's not about women having an income.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: They always have and in the past often the only
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: income was through the house or the home farm. Okay,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: it's not the issue. It is feminism, and those two
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: things are completely separate. Feminism did not create women working.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: Women worked prior to the housewife. Feminism just capitalized on
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: Betty Friedan's The Problem with No Name, which basically was boredom.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: Why housewives couldn't just get a whole bunch of puzzles
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: or maybe work on the grand unified theory of of
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: everything in their spare time. Why they had to invent
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: this massive grip or enhanced like I mean, because the
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: grievance started in the previous sort of housewife era with
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: the Victorians, when we had another kind of empire that
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: was really successful, that allowed a bunch of women to
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: stay at home and start getting up debt over the
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: fact that they had nothing to do. And then it
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: picked up again in the fifties when suddenly there was
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: another stretch of time when we could give women this
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: kind of free time to get complain about having free time. Right,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: so they just picked up on the old grievances and
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: just added more. Okay, that's what they did. They created
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: feminism from that, from their free time said nothing else
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: to do, And that's that is. If feminism did not
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: create women working, they did it before feminism. What it
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: did was it capitalized on the grievance of having nothing
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: to do, as be it ready for Dan said the
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: problem with no name. That's what they did. And then
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: these women have plenty of time to create trouble, which
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: is also what they did. So it's not about women working,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: it's not about women having an income, it's not about
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: women's education, and feminism never did that for women anyway.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: It is specifically about feminists framing of the relationship between
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: the sexes as being the site of women's oppression. Heterosexuality
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: is the site of women's oppression. Men use rape and
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: domestic violence to keep women in line. Right, All of
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: that that is injecting poison directly into our ability to
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: pair bond. There is nowhere else that is coming from. Yes,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: we have a prosperous society that is a problem, but
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: there is no society right now that's really experiencing a
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: collapse in their fertility. That can't doesn't can't boast some
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: kind of a feminist movement, even China, even though they
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: moved away from that, and actually you sort of respect
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: men who build stuff. But regardless, everybody's dealing with that.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: And even if it was a situation of modernity creating
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: comfort leading to a situation where women just don't become
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: adult enough to want to pair, bond and have children, fine,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: feminism makes it worse. So it either is a direct
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: culprit or it is complicit. Either way, we're not going
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: to get out of this problem without getting rid of
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: it and being more reasonable about the relationship between men
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: and women. Okay, men don't degrade women. They don't erase
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: women by choosing them. They don't objectify women, right, they
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: don't destroy women by explaining something. They are not a toxin.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: And incidentally, you should never listen to feminists and the
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: feminists in the psychology of men and masculinities on men,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: because they have absolutely categorically removed the possibility of a
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: man being good. Right, they've removed that that there's any
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: goodness from men or masculinity. Men are masculinity, not just
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: a neutered man who happens to act like a woman.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: That's what they say when they say, oh, men can
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: be better. Yeah, they mean men can renunciate being a man,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: renunciate their masculinity, live in a constant state of self abnegation,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: try to get as close as possible to being a
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: complete neuter. Not even a try, because that's encroaching on
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: women's territory. Just a neuter, and then take a sense
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: of goodness from how well he can conform his behavior
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: to a woman without ever identifying as one. Right, That's
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: their idea of goodness for men. It's why we have
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: this persistent like cabal of male feminists in our comments.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: Have you notice that, Brian.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: I mean you mean like after the streams are over. Yeah,
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: I've seen that.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yeah, you've seen me arguing with them.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing, you know, we have guys. I've
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: had guys tell me. You've probably had men tell you
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: this too, that knowing that they weren't alone made them
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: not un alive themselves. Yeah, right, Like this is something
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: like having been able to hear what we have to
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: say gave them the will to keep going, right, They
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: didn't feel like they were completely isolated or alone, those
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: feminist men. This place is the only place where they
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: get a sense of being good as men. And I'll
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: tell you why, because the only thing left to them
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: to feel good as a man is renunciating other men
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: and anybody who's male positive. So they come here to
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: do the only thing that makes them feel good about themselves,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: which is renunciate us. So we're literally keeping them from
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: unaliving themselves. We're the only place they get it right.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: If they didn't have a place to go where they
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: could renunciate being a man and masculinity, and they could
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: go in the commons and say, oh, the left is
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: just against toxic masculinity, and I ask, well, what's positive masculinity?
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: No answer, because they don't have one, because there is
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: nothing good in their worldview about being a man masculinity.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: If they could come here to our channel and renunciate
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: being a man, they'd have nothing. They'd have no way
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: to feel good about themselves because their only way of
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: feeling good about themselves is to renunciate being a man,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: to renunciate any pro pro mal behavior, and to say
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: I am the one man who's willing to do this
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: that's the source of their self esteem. That's why we
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: can't shake. Like, these guys have been here for freaking decades.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Well maybe not decades, but definitely years. I've seen these
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: names pop up over and over again. I'm like, why
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: are you here? You disagree with everything we say because
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: this is the only place where they can get a
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: sense of self esteem. And they get it from being
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: the one man who calls out other all the other
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: men and renunciates his masculinity, and this is the only
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: place they can do it. He can't do it with feminists.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: They're just gonna attack them even more, like literally, we're
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: saving their lives too, think about that. Yeah, this has
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: gotta stop. Oh good lord, Okay, anyway, I am done.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: If you want to ask, well, I got some super
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: childs I should read they. I got three that came
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: through all at the same time. I think they were
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: stuck in the tubes, but they managed to come through,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna read them out. But yeah, I mean,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: I think you basically covered it all, right, dark Kicky Mora,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: because I think these are all going to be short
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: conversation starters too. Gave us five dollars and said, what
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: are genuinely submissive or masochistic men supposed to do according
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: to the red pill. What the red pill states that
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: women don't like that shit? But what if it's just
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: a million times hotter than vanilla or dominant sex to
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: a man like a hit of heroin almost to him?
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: Well, do you.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: Want to take that?
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'll take it. I don't Why are you asking us?
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: All right, we're not the red pill? Well, I mean
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: we were when the red pill is about men's issues
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: or men's rights. Now the red pill is about a
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: particular strand of men who will say, oh, look at
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: women's insane standards. If you want to live up to
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: women's insane standards, by my freaking course, like that is
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: not us. So I don't know, go ask them, no offense, Like,
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, how do we answer that? Go ask a man,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: Go ask a red pill like a manuspere dude, That's
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: all I can say. Yeah, what are you the next one?
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: Uh? Yeah? All I'll say to that is it? Like
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: nobody can tell you what you have to do. You
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: do what you want to do anyway who cares? Like
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: you could be talking about actual like MRA types as well.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day. Why do you
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: need the manisphere or the red pill to like co
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: sign your particular tastes? Just do you all right? Richard
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: Bierre gives us five dollars and says office dating is
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: like being in the environment where there is the laser
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: bug zapper that is supposed to un on zap Sebanan says,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: onzap the mosquitos and not realizing that it identifies everyone
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: outside of a very specific set of parameters as a mosquito,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: similar to the specific parameters that a Thealanx clase in
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: weapons system has been programmed to not fire upon everything
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: else's fair game. Uh yeah, Like this woman doesn't actually
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: care about like the damage that all of these systems
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: that basically created the workplace environment that she now laments.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: She doesn't care that that happened. She just cares that
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: the guy that she's crushing on is actually like, I
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: don't know, uh, abiding by those rules. He's like, well
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, or he was taken like before
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: she even saw him, Like we don't know. All we
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: have is her side of the story. All she said was,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: well it didn't work out. That could just mean he
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: never approached her, and so she in her own mind,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: she was like, well, I guess he dumped me. It
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: could be that he did go out with her but
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: didn't like her, ghosted her. It could be any number
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: of things, but she doesn't actually care about like the system.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: She just cares that she wasn't approached. You know that
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: her and all of her girlfriends weren't like actually doing
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: this supposed competition it get the best man. None of
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: them probably took the initiative. They probably all just you know,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: did the usual feminine thing. They walked around him, they
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: laughed at his jokes, they flipped their hair, and then
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: nothing happened, and they were like, well, I guess he
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't want me. And again it could be that he
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: was just like, I'm not doing that. That's danger, So
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: all right. Richard Pierre then gives us five. That's the thing, like,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: you create these conditions and you actually drive away men
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: that you like. But the problem isn't that a man
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: that you liked was pushed away. The problem is is
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: that you put those policies in place because you wanted
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: to avoid running into men that you don't like, which
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: is probably the overwhelming majority of them. So like eighty
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: five ninety percent of the men at the workplace aren't
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: talking to you because of those laws or rules you
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: put in place, which you're fine with. It's the one
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: guy that is that you are interested in that won't
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: that also won't approach you that you don't like. So
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: it's like you just you want the world to change
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: for you, and it's not the way it works, all right.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: Richard Bier gives us two more superchows, one for five,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: where he says that laser bugs Zapper either never made
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: it to the market or was taken off the market.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: I have only seen some ads for it. The failanc
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: system is in service. Still it sounds like a chainsaw
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: when it fires. Well, this is like a really weird tangent,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: but okay. Then for five, he says, remember that Eve
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: got bored with Adam after a certain point and chose
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: to listen to the snake and partake of the forbidden fruit.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that she got bored with Adam. It was
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: that she was tempted by the serpent. But I understand.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Roboto gives us a dollar and says, we would all
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: write with an HBr standy that says by my book, Allison,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: all right, thank you Roboto, I don't know, he says,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read it exactly as it was typed.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe English is in his first language. He said, we
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: would all write with HBr standy that say buy my
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: book Allison with two l's. All right, Uh, thank you
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: for that, and I read everything. So Joe Q eighty
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: three six, who said higher education and careers nut jobs,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: leads to low birth rates. Our women going to become
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurs making high income if we ban them from university
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: and careers, no, they'll get married. Well, I mean, I
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: don't think we should ban them, but I don't think
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: we should delude people into thinking that, like, you know,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: universities for everybody.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, I don't think it is.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: So I don't think we should ban them, but I
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: think we should, like they should be informed because most
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: women go to college in the hopes of meeting a
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: man anyways, Like they don't really go because they have
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: some ambition they're chasing.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: Wow. What Wow, that's uh, that's probably very true and
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: also completely feudal at this point.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's why women get jobs too.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: They they work at a big like if they work
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: for a big company like a big law firm or
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: something they're trying to get. I mean, they're working, they
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: want to make money. I'm not saying they're not trying
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: to make money, but I think they're on the hunt
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: for a man, and they go to the where where
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: the top earners are and hope to attract one because
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: then they can quit. You see, Like they look. Women
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: are not stupid. They know where their bread is buttered. Right,
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: if they can get a good man that makes good money,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: they can quit their job, go home and just just
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: have kids with them. I think that's what a lot
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: of women do.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to agree. Also, it's funny because there's
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: this institutional pressure to keep rating because when I started this, right,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: it's honestly, the institutional condemnation of male sexuality and the
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: mine field relation to relationships has just gotten worse and
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: worse and worse keeps ratcheting up, and women will want
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: to pair, bond, and their own beliefs that they've passively
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: absorbed from feminism, of course make it even more difficult.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: And then also the institutional adoption of feminism makes the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: rules and the laws and the culture even more difficult.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: And the only people that are they're allowed to blame
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: is men. Everybody else is making the situation far more
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: difficult Feminism. All of these, all of these corporate policies,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: academic policies, government policies, making it tremendously difficult and also
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: giving men every reason to avoid it. And all women
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: can do is keep blaming men like I would like. Now,
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: I guess it's maybe I'm the only example of that,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: but just women. Well not because we've got Hannah, we
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: got Lauren, we got prim we got Karen, got few women,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: but just be able to just stop blaming men and
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: just step out of the comforting, warm embrace of the
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: powers that be and actually look at what the situation is.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: Why would be great if women could do that, don't
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: you think, Brian?
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: Like that, if I were to ask God for one
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: improvement on Eve? Just be able to think for herself
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: right and not not assume what the snake is saying,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: to be her own independent thinking, really think for you know,
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: get more opinions like you know, take the snake's opinion,
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: takes Adam's opinion, take God's opinion, wait them, consider which
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: one has her best benefit in mind, and maybe select
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: more wisely from the range of opinions and not just
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: go with the first one that just starts to trigger
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: her resentment and you know, envy, just just be able
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: to just step back away from that, and just hey,
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: does the corporate conglomerate that's fed back stopped really have
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: my best interest in mind? Does Hugo Schweitzer, feminist professor extraordinary?
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: Does he have my best interests in mind? Maybe I
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: should judge these entities by their behavior. Just a little
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: bit of critical thinking, right, I just that is like, Okay, God,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: if you're out there, if you're listening, just just one wish, God,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: just one Let women be able to see through the
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: waterline challenge or the waterline test. Yeah, just let them
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: be able to see through the relational web to the
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: substrate underneath. Let them be able to see through all
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: of this. Give them the gift of critical thought. Right,
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: and then instantly feminism disappears. Okay, all right, I'm I'm good.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: I I don't want to be.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: Like let me make sure in the city the super
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: childs Okay, yeah, go on, Sorry, you don't want to
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: be like I.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: Don't. I don't want to not be like other women, right,
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: that's what I want to be so you okay, too
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: many negatives, too many, too many negatives.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I can't follow it, but go on.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: I want to be like other women, but I don't
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: want to. I don't have to change as yeah, not
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: as they are. I want like, I want them to
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: When I say maybe not, everybody who flatters you has
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: your best interests at heart. There you go. Yeah, that
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: could be a good start for critical thinking. All right,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: So anyway, if you have anything you want to tell
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: us after the show is over, anything that I've said
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: or Brian has said that you want to argue with or.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: No, will definitely do it.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, alf did you notice that our detractor Albert, which yeah,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: Albert Alberta the one that gave us seventy dollars to
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: tell us that we are the worst, and then also
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: has now retracted, not retracted. I don't know he's He's
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: brought up a concern about Dean Caine losing his children.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard about losing his kids.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, good luck with that getting him
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: on the show. I could try, but I don't. I
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: don't think it's going to happen.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: Feminist judis prudence comes for every man, no matter what virtue.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: He his signaled he came for Superman.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: Aparently, Yeah, it is, it is. It is just it
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: just comes for every man.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: It's like the reaper. All right. So if you want
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: to send us a message anytime after the show is over,
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip is
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: the way to do that. If you want to support
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: us so we can continue to bring us bring you
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: this content from our very unique angle that maybe the
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: people who said that heterosexuality is the site of female
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: oppression are the ones who destroyed human mating. Maybe we
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: should look there anyway, go to feed the Badger dot
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: com slash support to support that message of maybe not
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: blaming men for once. And if you want to join
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: us in our community that's Badger Nation dot online. It's
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: all in the low bar as well. And I will
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: hand it back to Brian.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: All right. I did get a rumble rant the last second,
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna read it and then we'll go in there.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: Nova Fan twenty one gave us a dollar and said,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: I get a feeling this is just the thing and
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: is desperate to get their male victim quota to justify
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: their leech jobs. All right, thank you for that. Okay,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: with that said, uh, I mean, I don't know what
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: this article has to do with any of that, but
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: I get that, Yes, I know they're there.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: They need they need their quotas up right, they need Yeah, I.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: Know that that exists. Like the yeah, that they will
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: use victimhood to get power. That's what the me too
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: movement was. It was meant, it was fabricating I think
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: in many cases, if not most cases, victimhood so that
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: they could get men's jobs, because that ultimately, like using
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: male victim victimhood or using being victimized by men, it
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: by itself is not a reason to do it. It's
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: how they benefit after that. So they get a job,
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: so they get some government money, So they get a
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: bunch of attention, and so they get to raise their profile,
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: they get to increase their cloud, they get a raise,
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: they get you know whatever, they get money, they get attention,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: they get showered with praise, they get sympathy, they get
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. That's what the real you know, that's
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: what you look at when it comes to why are
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: they doing this? How do they benefit so okay. But anyway,
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: with that said, if you guys like this video, please
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: hit like, subscribe. If you're not already subscribed, hit the
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: bellf notifications, leave us a comment, let us know you guys,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: think about what we talked about the show today, and
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: share the video because sharing is caring. Thank you guys
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: so much for coming on this episode of Maintaining Frame
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: and we will talk to guys in the next one.