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The Essential Role of Short-Term Rental Advocacy · Hospitable Hosts

• Miles: Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Hospitable Host Podcast. Today we're speaking about how two dollars per stay could transform the vacation rental industry. Today's episode is going to be predominantly focused on US based shots and rental associations, but I think a lot of the things being said here do apply around the world and relate, I think, to all shots and rental hosts and the associations in their countries. So I think it's worth a listen, even if the exact programs and the exact dollars spent and exactly relatable to you. I think that there's a lesson to be learned for everyone. So please tune in and enjoy. And as always, if you do enjoy today's episode, please don't forget to like, share, and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Let's get started. Okay, everyone, thank you so much for joining in and listening to today's episode of the Hospitable Hosts Podcasts. So most hosts know regulations impact their business. Far fewer know who's actually doing the work to protect their right to operate. Today we're pulling back the curtain on the organizations, leaders, and funding models that are shaping the future of short-term rentals. So we're going to start off with a couple of introductions and get a little hello from everyone before we fire into some questions. so first off, to welcome Julie Marks, Executive Director of Right to Rent Collaborative. Welcome Julie. Julie Marks: Thanks, Miles. Happy to be here. Miles: Awesome. maybe you can tell us where you're based as well. just to yeah, give a bit of context to Julie Marks: Sure, so Miles: our listeners. Julie Marks: sure. So I am based in Vermont in the United States. I also, in addition to running the Right Trent Collaborative, I also founded and continue to lead the Vermont Short Term Rental Alliance. So I have been deep into advocacy and association building for the past five to six years now. and I've been a host myself for Coming on nine to ten years now. Miles: Awesome. Well great to have you all. Thank you very much. Julie Marks: Thank you. Miles: Okay. Dennis, so Dennis Hanks, Executive Director of the Florida Alliance for Vacation Rentals. Welcome, Dennis. Denis: Thank you for having me on today. it's a pleasure to be here. Favor, as we like to call ourselves, Florida Alliance for Vacational. We've been around for almost thirty-two years now. We're probably one of the oldest associations in the country. twenty-six percent of the entire vacational market in the US is in Florida. So we have a big chunk of that. And I've been with the association now for about thirteen years, and we're very strong in advocacy. We have eight chapters throughout the state. And yeah, we're we're super busy down here and if it's happening anywhere in regulatory heaven, it's here. It's always in Florida every day of the week. It's like playing whack a mole. So busy, busy market for advocacy. Miles: Awesome. Great to hear it. great to hear all the brilliant work you're doing. okay, next up we have Julia Costa. So Julia is executive director of the Colorado Shops and Rental Association. Welcome, Julia. Julia Koster: Yes. Thank you so much, Miles. Thanks for having today. Miles: Julia, maybe you can tell us a bit more about the state of Colorado and things that are happening there too. Julia Koster: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Miles. We have about 24,000 short-term rentals in the state of Colorado. So a little bit smaller slice of the pie than what Dennis has in Florida. But we are a small but mighty community of homeowners and property managers that are fighting for fair and equitable regulations here with Colorado Short-Term Rental Association. Miles: Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so we're going to go into kind of finding out a bit more about your organizations and what you do. And then we're going to kind of talk about generally, you know, some of the programs that you're working on collaboratively and kind of what's next for advocacy as a whole. So Julie, starting off with you and the right to rent collaborative, can you tell us a bit more about what the right to rent collaborative is and what's the organization's mission? Julie Marks: Sure. So let me back up a little bit here. And we've already heard that associations for this, you know, vacation rental industry in various states have existed for for different lengths of time. some are are very new, some are very mature as as his favor. but it's inconsistent. And part of that inconsistency is stems from the the fact that our industry doesn't have any centralized infrastructure that created a consistent system or network of associations to represent the industry in every jurisdiction and and every market. And so it's happening kind of ad hoc and as needed and off the the backs and and dollars of individuals in who aren't personally affected. And obviously that's not a really sustainable model for coordinated and effective advocacy with an industry that's as large as ours' is and growing as quickly as ours is. So the Right to Run Collaborative was established two years ago and late 2024 to address this very issue and the lack of centralized funding and an investment that our industry had. for advocacy around the country. And so what the Right Trent Collaborative really ultimately is setting out to do is to ensure that we have 50 professionally staffed, well-resourced vacation rental associations in every state that can be connected and coordinated and working together and to share resources, to improve efficiencies, to help each other win battles, fight fights. We know that, you know, while the cultures and the politics can be different from state to state, the conversations that are being had, the pressures that the industry are feeling are the same in and everywhere. And so there's a lot of ways that building this network is going to benefit everybody down to the individual operator. and so that's kind of the overall mission of the of the organization. But the mechanism by which we're really focused on now of making this happen is through funding. So we've created a centralized funding pool to basically collect money from the industry and then redistribute it to associations that are just establishing who are in need of funding to grow and Maybe hire their first staff, hire an executive director, hire a lobbyist, and then continue to build and grow their professional capacity for long-term sustainability as an association. So that's really the mission and vision of the Wright Trent Collaborative. You know, it's a huge industry. There's a lot of individuals and companies that play in this arena. especially when you compare us to the hotel industry and think about the the resources that have been invested by hotel chains to fund their $27 million budget for their national association that feeds all the state association and local chapters to do that lobbying on behalf of their industry and their businesses. We're trying to play catch up. and essentially get to that point where maybe we don't have such deep pockets from you know a couple of individuals, but we have power in numbers and if everybody can get involved and pitch in, then we can we can catch up and actually share a seat at the same table with with those more mature industries, which we deserve to be able to do. Miles: Nice. And you obviously they're talk talk about powers in numbers and you I think have distributed more than two hundred thousand dollars in grants now, and represent over six hundred thousand shorts of rentals. so I guess really, you know, it's a case of scale being really important for advocacy and having an impact, right? Julie Marks: Yeah, we have and and you know again, this initiative really is just getting go is just getting started. within our first we're only in our first kind of year and a half of of truly operating since since launching the organization and the the buy in has been fast and and fierce and so that's enabled us to redistribute over two hundred thousand dollars already to Across 16 different organizations that are fighting regulatory fights across the US. So the need is there. I think the industry gets it. And it's just a matter of continuing to build the system and the infrastructure to make it easier and easier for everybody to participate and benefit from the system. Miles: Nice, okay. So I think just kind of switching gears to Dennis and Julia, you know, Julie's given us kind of the the overarching kind of a national level what right to right collaboration is working on. What does kind of advocacy look like in a state? you know, so maybe Dennis, you can start off like what you know, boots on the ground, what are you guys actually doing in Florida to help hosts and kind of advocate for short term rental? Denis: Sure. you know, at any given time in the state of Florida, we probably have like twelve communities that were dealing with some type of regulatory matter. right now we've got one s county that we have a lawsuit that's pending in. It will be a precedent setting lawsuit if it was won by the vacational operator who's suing the county. So those are the areas where we support folks in. We'll Typically start out working with local governments and saying, Hey, we know a better way to structure this ordinance that you're proposing. These are the things that work for the industry, these are the things that will work for you. You know, what are your goals in the community? So working with those local governments is key. Hillsboro County in Florida, which is the Tampa Bay area, we just actually had a two year stint of working on an ordinance with the county of Hillsborough. They finally got it back to us about a week ago. We had a little tweet few tweaks. We sent it back. They accepted those. It almost is close to being a model ordinance now after two years. we were just talking with some of the larger platform government affairs folks and saying, hey, this is going to be ideal for us if they go with this. So it's really working one on one with those communities. we feel that education is a big part of it. So if a community is going to implement a new regulation, you've got to tell people how to deal with it. You know, Joe and Mary who are hosts in Tampa Bay and live in Ohio are not gonna understand how to implement any of this stuff on their home if it's a harsh regulation. So there's kind of like a a lot of tentacles at one time working on these things. like I say, we've got lawsuits pending in some communities, activity with the local governments, we've got folks that were trying to energize and engage and be involved. Tell their story, be involved in the part of the process. You know, folks sometimes get intimidated by standing up for that three minutes at a county commission meeting or a city council meeting. We coach them along the way. What is the messaging? What do you want to say? Here's how you should say it. These are the statistics behind it. So you can use data. You know, Florida has three hundred and forty thousand vacation rentals. We bring in thirty one billion dollars a year. All these facts and figures that we can share. is something that we work on all year long to compose that and and share it with them. the data is key to everything that we do. Sometimes folks don't want to hear the data, but it's out there. you know, we go tit for chat with the hotel industry, as Julie was mentioning, they have a ton of money and a ton of resources. And, you know, when we're asking a property manager or a host to say, hey, can you make a donation for advocacy? They're dipping in their pocket to dig out whatever few dollars that they may have to expend on advocacy. Whereas, you know, a large hotel chain, the general manager's writing a check for ten thousand dollars because it's not coming out of his pocket, it's coming out of that corporation and the flag of that hotel. So it's a whole different kind of approach that you have from the hotel side in that any given year here in Florida, the hotel industry is throwing a million dollars against us to fight. any one of these ordinances and things that are on the on the agenda. So it's a constant battle, but engagement is most important. Miles: Nice, okay. And then Julia, what about in Colorado? What does a s you know, advocacy look like there? I presume there's there's quite a bit of an overlap, but do you kind of see unique challenges to that state? Julia Koster: Yeah, absolutely. So Colorado is an interesting landscape. We have 64 counties in our little small state. And within those counties, each county has a home rule government. So the county has unincorporated county government, and then within the counties there are towns, and any incorporated towns have their own set of rules. So we have hundreds of towns, and then we have our 64 counties. Then we have the state level. So there's there's three different levels of things that we're working on in Colorado at any given time. And similar to what Dennis was saying, right now we don't have quite as many issues going on because we are between legislative sessions, but we do have about a half a dozen different counties that are working on a variety of short-term rental restrictions and ordinances. So our playbook in Colorado is to do similar to what Dennis was saying. We offer support to those local chapters. We show up when there's something that we need to fight. And if there's an ordinance in development or any rumor of an ordinance being into in development, we offer talking points, data, all the similar things that Dennis was saying to try to set those people up for success within their local jurisdiction. And then our role at Costra is to come in as sort of backup, right, for those local community members because a small county in rural mountain town, Colorado, somewhere. doesn't necessarily want to hear from the statewide organization. They want to hear from the people who are being directly impacted by the ordinances and they want to hear from their neighbors that they see at the grocery store. So when we show up, it's kind of like corporate coming in, right? And that's not necessarily as impactful as it is for someone else who lives in the community to be there. So we try to train people and teach them that you know, politics is not really scary, especially in a state like Colorado. We are a citizen legislature all across the state. So most of our lawmakers across Colorado have other jobs. They are EMTs and teachers and attorneys and small business owners. And you know, they're your neighbor. They're somebody you run into, like I said, at the grocery store. so we try to coach people and set them up for success so they can build those relationships and really make an Miles: That's awesome. And I guess kind of a question for all three of you, would you say that as the short rental industry matures, is advocacy becoming more or less important? Denis: Definitely more. Miles: He wants to go first. More, you say. How come? Julie Marks: More for sure. Julia Koster: Absolutely won't. Miles: And and what's what's some of the reasons behind that? Julia Koster: so in Colorado, and I know nationwide especially, I think it continues to be more and more important every day because what we are seeing is the spread of bad ideas. And we call them bad ideas because a lot of them are really, really crazy ideas. And so we see that the counties and the states and the towns do talk to each other across state lines. And so a lot of times in Colorado, for example. We hear about ideas that came out of Utah, or we hear about ideas that came out of Lake Tahoe, or we hear about things from Arizona. So we hear about things from our neighboring states. and it's like, okay, we really need to not just talk to people within our own borders, but we also need to talk to people across state lines and make sure that we're informing people that what you do over there also impacts us over here. So please be kind and be respectful in in the laws that you're proposing. Julie Marks: I think too what's becoming more and more valuable about having a vacation rental association in your state is that it's not only about fighting and preventing restrictions or fighting regulations or or legal battles, but it's also preventative when it comes to partnership development and relationships long term. you know, I'm I'm I'm referring to longstanding relationships with local tourism departments and destination marketing organizations, with housing organizations, with you know, with career politicians at the state level, with your governors and your mayors, so that there's a resource out there for them before be before S hits the fan. can I swear on this podcast? Okay. Denis: Ha ha ha. Miles: Go for it. It's Julie Marks: so before shit hits the fan, you want you want the people who are thinking about writing these rules to reach out to you first. That you that that they have a trusted resource so that they can they can look at the data too. They can understand the nuances of the industry and you know, what the impacts are economically to the broader community and the economy. So there's there's there's definitely a defensive, you know, need and and action that organizations are needing to take, but it's also very much prev preventative for the longevity of the industry and building that trust and credibility. And it's just it would not happen, it will not happen without strong leaders building those relationships in states like Colorado and in Florida, like Dennis and Julia. Denis: And I think that, you know, that's one of the key points for us. It's an ongoing process for advocacy because these politicians have term limits. So they come in, they're a state representative. Sometimes they come from local government up to state government. And you kind of train them in what the industry's doing. You know, sometimes we'll go we'll do thirty visits a day at the state capitol and just talking to these folks about the industry. And you walk in and they go, you guys are the timeshare guys. And we're like, no, we don't do timeshares. So it takes you a year or two to educate them, and then boom, they're off to another position. So you're constantly in that process of doing this over and over and over again so that they understand who we are and what we do. local governments, just like us having associations, local governments here in Florida have associations too. There's the Florida League of Cities, there's the Florida League of Counties. And they run around and they say, Hey, we were just in St. Augustine and this ordinance for vacationals is amazing and it's horrible. It's absolutely horrible. And they're pedaling it around the state. So now you got to keep going to all those other cities and counties and going, Don't do that. It's horrible. It didn't work in these cities. And let me tell you why. So you really have to have that engagement and it's never ending. we have a full time lobby team in Tallahassee at the state capitol because things are coming up. all the time. Last year we had five bills related to swimming pools only for vacation rentals. So the guy that lives across the street can have 25 people swimming in his pool, there's no worry about safety or anything. But the vacation rental across the street has to have pretty much a lifeguard on duty. So it was just absolutely ridiculous. And I think Julia mentioned the bad ideas. That's how they start. Miles: Fair enough. yeah, sounds Julie Marks: Anyway, yeah. Miles: like a terrible idea. okay, so sweet switching up to kind of talk about the dollars that we just spoke about at the start. So I mentioned that you know the right to rent collaborative has distributed more than $200,000 in grants. so I guess Julie, a question for you is when you guys evaluate those grant applications from the associations, what are the things that stand out? What are you looking for the you know, the the grant to go to and impact? Julie Marks: Yeah, so for full transparency, me and my team, you know, our job is to bring in the money for the right to rent collaborative. we have an independent advisory committee made up of industry volunteers, members of the collaborative who review and evaluate the all the grant applications that we receive. their recommendations are are discussed and communicated. There's a rubric for criteria. They make a recommendation and then their recommendation goes to our board of directors who ultimately have the final say in where the grant money goes and and so forth. So I but I would say you know have observing the the process and having been part of developing the the pr the process really again like our Core mission is to see organizations at the state level start up, grow, and then sustain themselves. And so, you know, unlike most grant opportunities out there, we almost exclusively want to fund overhead and operating expenses. All the very unsexy things that usually don't receive grant funds because there's less of a a product on the other side to demonstrate. But for us, our product, our indicator of impact and success is measured in how many employees that association is able to hire, how many members they're able to attract and retain. We're looking for that base that that leadership commitment, that strong passion and ethos to you know, want to see a small startup get to that next level. and so that's that's really kind of what we're looking for. I mean, we've we've granted large and small grants to large and very small organizations that are in different states of of need. And, you know, even just you'll hear, you know, the the difference between what F Dennis in Florida is doing with with their grant award versus what Julia in Colorado is doing. with their grant award is very different because their organizations are in different states of development and maturity and there are different issues going on. So we really try to be as flexible as possible, but ideally we're looking to fill in that map of the 50 states. We have 14 state organizations already qualified and so we're definitely looking for organizations to start up in states where we currently have no representation. and we're looking for again strong leadership that has has kind of surfaced locally in those states who are committed to seeing the organization develop and into s into one that is professionally staffed. Miles: Okay, nice. Yeah, and maybe Julia and Dennis we can kinda hear just kind of a brief example and explanation of how you've been using the grants in your association. So maybe Julia you can go first with Costra. Julia Koster: Yeah, sure. so for us it was really a vote of confidence, right? Receiving our grant from R2RC affirmed just that other people believe in our mission, you know, that the nationwide groups understand that what we are doing in Colorado is really, really important for tourism and for the tourism economy in our state. So one of the things that it did for us is it allowed us to think a little bit bigger and to start thinking about things like getting ahead of the legislative session and working with our lobbyists before an issue comes to fruition. So finding out who the lawmakers are that we need to identify and speak to ahead of time, learning about initiatives that are coming across the table that maybe we wouldn't find out about otherwise until November or December. So being able to use those funds to be proactive instead of reactive is really, really important in our industry because a lot of the time, as Dennis has said and as Julie has said, We have to be sort of reactionary because we are not deep pockets with a ton of funding from big corporations. We are a lot of individual homeowners and a lot of small local businesses that are funding the advocacy effort in our states. So to have an influx of cash like we did from our two R C was incredibly helpful. Miles: Dennis. Nice, awesome. I think all of our hospice will listeners will understand the importance of using AI as well to automate and speed up things as well. That's good to hear. so switching now, I guess, to to where does that money come from? Julie, can you tell us a bit more about how the Right to Rent Collaborative actually collects money and maybe some of the new things that you're doing to kind of get more for the local associations? Julie Marks: so not to beat a beat a dead horse or anything, just to radiate reiterate some previous points, but there's no shortage of of ways in which associations could use funding right now. I know I face this personally, running the association in Vermont. Members are always asking us why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? And the answer is always like, well, we would if we had more money to hire more staff or to purchase that software or to run that that campaign. and so it is, it's it's really vital to be able to give associations a little breathing room in their budgets to maybe do that extra. project or extra membership drive or invest in that software component. You know, we we do try to not hold too many too many strings so that associations have a flexibility to adapt to whatever the needs are and they can just spend less time fundraising. So that being said, where the money comes from for the right trend collaborative ultimately is from everyone. we have created avenues for anybody who is a stakeholder in this industry to participate. So the right to rent collaborative, we've structured it's a member-funded organization. So when you become a member, you're funding your funding our mission. You're contributing to the national pot of resources that's available to organizations here in the United States. And so there's no minimum to join. Anybody can become a member and contribute with just one dollar a day, $10 a month. But we have various pathways for specific stakeholders as well. So we do invite vendors and larger corporations to become a member at a higher level and contribute kind of what they can based on their their revenue, their profits. their stake in the industry. We ask homeowners to contribute what they can on a monthly or annually subscription. And then for property managers, this is where it gets exciting and where we have been really grateful to partner with Hospitable around is this integration through through the PMS, through the the property management software. And so Right to Rent Collaborative has created an integration with several PMS companies to allow property managers to enroll their portfolio into our $2 right to rent program. And what that does is automatically ask for $2 off of every completed reservation to be allocated to advocacy. And to go back to the right trend collaborative. And so that has been a major, a major amount of behind the scenes work to get us to where we are. We currently are integrated with six PMS companies. and it's we'll continue to on onboard more, but it is really going to be the future of kind of grassroots advocacy funding when We have a mechanism to one, automate it, but two, allow people to contribute in a way that's flexible and relative to the amount of business they're doing. So we know that there's a lot of variability in the market and in different in different seasons or in different properties. And so finding a way that's fair and and relative you know to to what individuals can afford is is really the goal. So the $2, and what's really exciting about the $2 for reservation program, once a property manager is enrolled and if they are from a state where we have a qualified state association. So for in Florida, for example, in Colorado and in Vermont, these this all holds true, property managers who are in those markets When they enroll in the $2 per reservation program, they can also opt into the $1 stays local. And so they will then see the option to select the Florida Association or the Colorado Association or the Vermont Association, and then we will automatically redirect $1 for every out of every two to your state association. So they receive that extra boost in funding automatically again without having to burden the resources that they are already so, you know, monitoring so tightly. So that's really exciting and that's open for enrollment now. Miles: Well awesome. OK, so Dennis, maybe you can tell us what the $1 stays local means for FAVA and your association. Denis: Yes, absolutely. The one dollar is going to be a big boost for what we do on advocacy all across the board. another thing that we work on very closely is is supporting candidates who support vacation rentals. And it's kind of a screening process that we do. we will support a candidate financially if we have to see that they're going to be supportive of vacation rentals. we've got a number of state officials and different political committees that we support and also local candidates. We encourage folks to run for office if they're so inclined and they're in the vacation rental industry. Why not dip your toe in the water and do that? And we'll support candidates that way as well. But that's one component of it. But our lobbying and and legal activity and everything that working across the board would be supported by that one dollar that we would receive. Even data collection and studies are are important as well, so that we can constantly update those. I think our last study that we did with the University of Central Florida showed that we were at a $31 billion economic benefit a year to the state of Florida. that didn't include, you know, the job creation and everything else that happens in our industry. So all of that is super important, but as Julie mentioned earlier. You're always looking for funding to try to fund some of these things to keep the the battleship moving in the right direction when you're you're doing these fights along the way. Miles: Nice. And then, yeah, Julia, guess similar question. What's your plea to hosts and property managers in Colorado to do the integration on hospitable and start doing that donation? How will it help them in the end and help your association? Julia Koster: Yeah, absolutely, Miles. So one thing that we say a lot in this industry is that advocacy is not optional and it should be a very important part of your budget. It should be above your bottom line, 100%. it should always be something that you think about and something that you consider on a monthly basis and something that you participate in. What I really like about this program with R2RC is that it gives people the opportunity to participate. without having a heavy administrative lift or without having to really consider what they're going to sacrifice if they're earning a really tight budget in order to contribute to advocacy. This is a very simple, very easy program for anybody to plug into. And the automations make it something that it takes the guesswork out of everything, right? It just really makes it easy for people to implement. So In the case of Colorado, that dollar staying local means that we can amplify our voice at the Capitol. But more importantly, for a lot of people, it means we can amplify our voice at a local level also. I spoke to our lobbyists this week, and one of the things that we will be implementing in Colorado is a local lobbying program where our lobbyists don't just work for us at the Capitol during session, but they also work for us year-round, monitoring local ordinances and local issues and helping us advocate for change. within those towns and counties across the state. And a lot of times our local business leaders say, Sure, of course I'm curious about what's going on at the state. And I do want to avoid a new property tax initiative or something like that. But what I what really bothers me is what's happening with this ordinance in my community that has restricted the number of short term rentals or the amount of reservations we're allowed to have or the number of nights we're allowed to rent. And so they really care more. if not just as much as what they do about the state level. So being able to keep things local and to be able to add that layer to what we do and make it stronger is really, really important. Miles: Mm hmm. Makes sense. Okay, so shifting towards kind of future gazing a little bit. Dennis, starting with you, what trends do you think will define the next chapter of advocacy? Where do you think the industry needs to focus its energy next? Denis: Ooh, that's a tough one. There's always something to be on top of in the vacation rental industries, particularly here in Florida. Florida has a statewide preemption which is super strong. And our main thing is prote protecting that preemption at all cost because what it says is when it went into place, no community can prohibit vacation rentals in the state. They can't touch duration or frequency at all on vacation rentals. And that's was The original preemption back in 2011. So we continue to protect that, but we also want to continue to move forward with professionalizing the industry. The folks that just really don't get involved as much as they should. that's the trend that we keep seeing with 340,000 vacation rentals in the state of Florida. You know, education is huge. every time we do outreach and education in these communities. folks walk away and they say, I didn't even know that I needed to have a license or I didn't know I needed to do human trafficking awareness training. I didn't know I needed to make sure I have certain locks on my vacation rental. All these things are super important. And that education continues to elevate across the board. you know, we have all the trendy topics like AI and everything else, but those basic things is something we have to continue to just beat the drum about. I sit on the state licensing board for vacation rentals. So I get to sit across the table from a hotel industry and we know what's going on there. we're just dollar for dollar outgunned by the hotel industry. So we need to continue to to look at that and make sure that funding's coming from some source that we can keep up with it. because it's a constant ongoing challenge to get the money in. But trending wise, I think we're gonna continue to see local governments and state government trying to push something to regulate vacation rentals even more. the hotel industry's attorney was at the one of the hearings when we had a bill at the state level and it was thirty five pages long. And the hotel industry's attorney got up and said, This is a good start, but we really think it needs to include these other fifty things. And we're like, you gotta be kidding me. we're already doing more than any hotel does. So Those are the things you have to continue to fight day in and day out to make sure you're protecting the folks that are the operators in the industry. Miles: course, that makes sense. then Julia, what excites you most about the future of state associations and how do you see organizations like Costa? Julia Koster: I so many things excite me, Miles. I I'm gonna like jump out of my chair. Denis: Yeah. Julia Koster: just the fact that we have so many different groups forming across the country is something that makes me so happy to see because we do need to all work together and we all do need to talk across state lines and make sure that we are working as one industry and everyone together. I will point out that I've used the word industry a few times. And we don't like that word. we actually don't use it in Colorado as much as we can possibly avoid it. We tend to use the word community and we talk about the short-term rental community. And we are a nationwide community of homeowners, small businesses, property managers, and every single person that is involved with staffing, from your housekeeping companies to your maintenance guys to your home builders and your interior designers. There's tons and tons and tons of people that work with this industry. So Community. So one of the things that is really exciting as part of that is seeing other coalitions starting to form, sort of as little satellite organizations. In Colorado, we have a new group called the Colorado Workers Coalition, and that is all those people that I just mentioned. So it also includes real estate professionals and things like that. Your insurance guy, you know, it's all kinds of people that you would never even think about including in the discussion about short-term rentals legislatively, but they are All impacted by the things that happen to us. So when our community gets taxed or feed or restricted, it impacts thousands upon thousands of other people that aren't even part of the discussion. So for us, where I see the excitement and where I see the growth is bringing those other members of our community into the conversation so that we are all continuing to work together rather than in all these separate little silos and all these separate little groups. we're not just property managers and homeowners. We are every person that touches tourism and that's that's really exciting to me. Miles: it. Great. Julie, what about the Right to Rent collaborative? Where is the organization heading next and what does success look like three years from now? Julie Marks: Well, I just have to echo and applaud Julia's, you know, response about excitement because I feel the exact same way and have observed the exact same thing. and it it really is I think this is where we're at a a point of inflection in this community that is an industry that is a community because we have been so invisible and silenced for for decades and decades, and now we're starting to pull the pieces together and see the connections and the key and our communities are starting to see it too. Our local business businesses like restaurants and retail are starting to understand the connection and the realtors for sure. And and so the more that we can bring people together and bring this community to the surface and professionalize. Bring in standards and education. I think when we talk about Dennis talks about all the work that he's doing in education, man, I feel that so much. And it's it's a t it's a two-way education. It's you're educating lawmakers about how the vacation rental industry works and and lives and breathes. And then you're also educating every new homeowner or host that comes into the market about those responsible practices for operating, how to follow the laws, what the best latest technology is to keep everybody safe and the house, the home protected and the neighbors happy. And it is nonstop. So where Right to Rent is headed hopefully is to fulfilling that mission of 50 state associations with committed leadership so that we can build that really robust network of of leaders who are able to work together and bring successes and bring you know wins back to their own communities. I think what what success looks like ultimately for for all of us is everybody getting involved and a very very much needed paradigm shift that needs to happen sooner rather than later around advocacy not being optional. Advocacy is not a marketing spend. It is its own line item in your budget just as and should be right up there next to any other insurance policy you hold. Because right now without people on the front lines having those conversations with lawmakers or with their neighbors or preventing a new host from operating in a way that causes a problem and creates community tension and conflict, there won't be an opportunity for us to continue to grow our businesses in the future. so I think, you know, everybody opting in, contributing what they can and what's what's proportionate to what they get out, of of this industry is is really what I'm hoping to see. And again, I know we'll be able to measure success and impact as we continue to fill in the map and see more and more associations establish, grow, and continue to to become successful and in their professionalizing. Miles: Amazing. Okay, Julie, Julia, Dennis, thank you so much for joining me today and educating myself and our listeners on everything that you're doing. It's incredible work. Appreciate it. Julie Marks: Thank you, Miles. Denis: Thank you so much. Julie Marks: And thank Julia Koster: Thanks, Miles. Julie Marks: you to all the advocates out there. Denis: Keep on fighting. Miles: Thank you again for listening to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it as always. And remember to like, share, and subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening device or platform. And as always, listen out for a new episode dropping soon. Thank you very much, everyone.