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The Great Muppet Fandom Panel - Winter, 2024 Edition · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:00
  The producers of this podcast wish for you to know that the
• 0:02
  following recording and the discussion they're in pertaining
• 0:05
  to Muppet violence was recorded before the February 1st Today
• 0:08
  show attack committed by Larry David.
• 0:11
  For the sake of honesty, we have kept this conversation and this
• 0:14
  whole episode entirely unedited, as this show is famously always
• 0:19
  completely unedited. Thank you.
• 0:23
  At the dawn of the Internet, the courageous nerds on the Tough
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  Pigs Forum notably took on the responsibility of incomparable
• 0:31
  importance arguing about Muppets.
• 0:34
  Now today's Muppet experts from all over the world have gathered
• 0:39
  for a summit on the stage of The Muppets.
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  This is the. Great muppet at the Atom.
• 1:02
  Gosh, it's it's awfully quiet this time.
• 1:04
  Normally everyone's talking over me as I'm trying to introduce
• 1:07
  the show. But right now, very quiet panel.
• 1:11
  I guess I should check in with everyone.
• 1:15
  How is everybody doing? Oh, good heavens.
• 1:19
  OK. I should have seen that coming.
• 1:21
  I brought that upon myself. Well, I'm muting you, muting
• 1:25
  you. Muting you.
• 1:27
  Muting you and welcoming you to the Winter 20.
• 1:31
  No, not you. To the Winter 2024.
• 1:33
  Who are you? I don't.
• 1:35
  Know. Honestly, as the kids say, mood
• 1:40
  welcoming you to the Winter 2024 edition of the Great Muppet
• 1:43
  Fandom panel from toughpigs.com. As the name suggests, this is a
• 1:47
  panel discussion show in which we check in with The Muppets
• 1:50
  every few months and see how they're doing, always with a
• 1:52
  different group of Muppet fans. It's sort of like a quarterly
• 1:55
  report on the state of The Muppets, except I've heard it
• 1:58
  said that the state is a monopoly on violence and The
• 2:00
  Muppets are led by Kermit, who doesn't believe in violence.
• 2:03
  Therefore, there can be no state of The Muppets.
• 2:05
  It doesn't exist, and neither do you.
• 2:07
  As you can tell, this is a super accessible show that makes
• 2:10
  perfect sense to new listeners. Very easy to follow, not
• 2:13
  alienating or confusing, Just a very chill time with ordinary
• 2:18
  people. Speaking of people, let's
• 2:19
  introduce the panelists first up from the beloved Muppet Movie
• 2:22
  podcast. Moving right along in search of
• 2:24
  good times and good news with good friends you can't lose.
• 2:27
  This could become Anthony Strand.
• 2:30
  Hey JD, I'm so excited to finally be here.
• 2:32
  I I love the show so much. I'm so glad you're finally here.
• 2:35
  My gosh, I can't believe it's taken this long.
• 2:38
  I know, hopefully it'll be worth it, like for you.
• 2:40
  I know that it'll be worth it for me, but hopefully I don't
• 2:42
  let you down. No, Anthony, you can't do that.
• 2:45
  My expectations are already as low as they can possibly be.
• 2:48
  We're fine. Next also from the Tough Pigs
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  team and from the podcast Fraggle Talk, Let the Fraggles
• 2:55
  play. We're Beth Cook.
• 2:59
  Hello. Thank you so much for having me
• 3:01
  back. Yes, Beth Cook.
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  She her. I don't know what else to say.
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  You summed it up. Great.
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  That's it. You.
• 3:07
  You you have already fulfilled your obligations.
• 3:10
  Great. You're good.
• 3:13
  Can I? Can I go now?
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  Is that all you? Needed from it.
• 3:15
  True. We got it.
• 3:16
  We're good. Perfect.
• 3:17
  Take care. See you later.
• 3:19
  Also Jared is here. And finally, from the multi
• 3:22
  muppy award-winning podcast Commitment, I'm so sorry Jared.
• 3:27
  Let me give you a proper introduction.
• 3:29
  You know him as one of the owners and editors of Tough Pigs
• 3:32
  and one of the hosts of to introduce our guest star.
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  Before that he ran the Muppet Mindset for six years and before
• 3:37
  that he ran everyone's favorite Muppet website,
• 3:39
  sesamestreetorbus.blogspot.com. He's the most sensational,
• 3:44
  inspirational, celebrational, Muppet tational.
• 3:46
  This is what we call Jared Fairclough.
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  Yes. Hello everybody.
• 3:51
  It's a pleasure to be here. What an absolute pleasure.
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  It's. I'm excited to talk about this
• 3:55
  movie 2 minutes at a time. Finally, from the multi muppy
• 4:01
  award-winning podcast Commitment and I will also add he is the
• 4:04
  editor of the Tough Pigs YouTube video More Lost Brian Henson
• 4:07
  Intros Why are There so many songs about Matthew Gatos?
• 4:11
  Hi, I'm Matthew Gatos. He, him and I, I feel like the
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  new kid at school, hanging out with all these cool kids, being
• 4:20
  like, hey, thanks for letting me be a part of your group and
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  lunch table. Can I just say I think I speak
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  for the rest of us when I say that's the first time we've ever
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  been called the cool kids. And it'll be the last, yes.
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  Yeah, there it is, 100%, yeah. Although actually I was in the
• 4:34
  student government in my Graduate School library
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  association, so. That's not that's not helping
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  your case. OK.
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  And I am your moderator, JD Hansel.
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  Thank you. Thank you.
• 4:48
  I am so glad that you're all here, Jared.
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  My gosh, your first time on the main feed.
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  I had you on on the pilot. I've been meaning to have to
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  have you on again, and you know, everyone here is a podcaster,
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  and so I want to ask you all briefly about your podcasts,
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  Jared. JD.
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  You just want a muppy for the OR.
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  I guess Frank Oz won a muppy, but it was for your podcast to
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  introduce I'm. Going to take it as the win,
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  seeing as someone else kept winning all the other podcast
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  awards, we're not going to talk about him here.
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  Just take the win. Just take a win.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  So we we went for having Frank Oz.
• 5:20
  I'm taking that as like I said, a win for ourselves.
• 5:23
  That was that was a really crazy.
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  That was a crazy day in general because I was going in for
• 5:27
  surgery like 2 hours after that interview ended.
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  Great. What a weird day.
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  And I woke up and the first thing I thought was like, that
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  was a that was a anaesthesia dream.
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  Surely, Jerry, it was a real it's a real thing that happened.
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  You should take credit for that win, because a big part of why
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  that episode is so darn good is you and Joe and the dynamic the
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  two of you have together. And the way that you interviewed
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  Frank and surprisingly the incredible comedic dynamic that
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  the three of you had together, like the three of you could have
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  hosted a podcast. It was and it was truly amazing.
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  We will. We're actually, I hope so.
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  I'm looking. Forward.
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  To. It we're going to do moving
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  right along for Muppets from space because God knows he has
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  some thoughts. Please, by all means.
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  Ah, tears. Speaking of moving right along,
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  that show likes to think of itself as the flagship podcast
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  of toughpigs.com, despite all the work that I have done to
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  make the great Muppet Fandom Panel the flagship podcast of
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  toughpigs.com. But you know what?
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  I'm glad that we've somehow put the two flagships together
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  because we've got Anthony here. Anthony, how you doing buddy?
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  I'm doing great. Am I talking about moving right
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  along? Sure, if you want.
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  To By all means, are we just talking about stuff?
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  Moving right along, we have started recording our season on
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  Muppet Treasure Island. Oh, I'm so excited.
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  It doesn't have Frank Oz yet. It doesn't have Joe or Jared yet
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  either, although they'll they'll both be joining us.
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  I was. Going to say I'm sure yeah, I've
• 6:48
  got my 2 minutes already. Yeah, we have you on the
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  spreadsheet. Yeah, but it's fun.
• 6:52
  It's fun to be back in it because I don't like Muppet
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  Treasure Island and and talking about it is really fun, just
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  like digging into it, you know, it's it's, I'm, I'm excited to
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  learn why other people like it. Like, I'm very truly, I'm going
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  into it hoping with like a positive attitude.
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  Hoping to finally understand why it's actually secretly great for
• 7:16
  for Muppet reasons, not for Tim Curry reasons.
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  Because he's great. I like I like the human man far
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  more than I like any Muppet in the picture.
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  Yeah, I I'm. I'm actually excited about this
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  too. It it's odd how I'm so eager to
• 7:32
  hear the opinions of someone I I disagree with, since I am one of
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  the Muppet Treasure Island lovers and I feel like maybe
• 7:39
  there are more of us now than there used to be.
• 7:41
  I my feelings about it are a lot more complicated at this point.
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  I look at every other scene and go, oh, that was a mistake.
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  But I'm looking forward to hearing you talk about it
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  anyhow. Thank you.
• 7:51
  Beth Fraggle talk. It's wrapping up this season and
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  what an incredible season. My gosh, can you tell us about
• 7:59
  so much? Can you tell us about some of
• 8:00
  the the highlights from the show and what you're hoping for in
• 8:03
  the future? Yeah, it's been such a joy to go
• 8:07
  through Fraggle Rock. To take a a deep dive like this
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  is the kind of work that I would have loved to have done anyway.
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  But having the support of the tough pigs team behind me to be
• 8:22
  like, yes, this is a thing that people want.
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  Please, please go do it. Please Give us More has been
• 8:28
  very encouraging to know that it's not just me talking to a
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  wall about Fraggles all day. We get some incredible insights
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  and perspectives from our guests and my Co hosts.
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  So Julia is also from tough pigs.
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  So I'm watching as sort of the expert Julia is watching, like
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  rewatching after 10 years. And then we brought on my friend
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  Adam who was watching for the very first time and I've really
• 8:58
  loved getting a first timers perspective.
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  It's so good. I, I, I, I was, I was very
• 9:04
  honored to be the first return guest which I don't think I I
• 9:07
  fully realized I was going to be until I was on it.
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  And I do think that it's it's a very special podcast.
• 9:14
  My my gosh you you are you truly you're you're doing something
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  that that's very special. All of your podcasts are very
• 9:19
  special, but yours does hold a a special place in my heart
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  because it is willing to have a lot of conversations that I've
• 9:27
  just never heard on a Muppet podcast before.
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  Part of that's the nature of Fraggle Rock, but also part of
• 9:32
  that stuff that the the three of you bring.
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  So cool. I'm so glad you're here.
• 9:36
  I'm so glad you're back. Oh, thank you so much for having
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  me here. Matthew Gatos, by gosh, I've,
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  I've been wanting to have you on this show since the beginning
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  too. How are you?
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  Welcome. I am good.
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  What can you tell us about what commitment is up to right now?
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  Oh well, I guess for those that don't know, commitment is a show
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  that me and my friend and Co host Sam Schultz hosts.
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  We had this idea back in 2021 to start a A Muppet podcast and we
• 10:02
  were like, well, Tough Pigs is doing like 8 and they're all
• 10:05
  real good. So how do we make ourselves
• 10:07
  different? What if we foolishly decide to
• 10:09
  watch everything that Jim Henson and The Muppets have ever done
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  in chronological order? So that means that coming up on
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  three years later, we're 125 episodes in and we're just in
• 10:21
  the middle of 1980. Five Incredible.
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  Truly. I'm always amazed that.
• 10:27
  I'm always amazed that you keep it up and that you managed to
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  keep the show. It's so interesting when that is
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  a commitment that I would never have it in me to take on.
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  Sam and I have found a great balance.
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  I am the spreadsheet master who I tracked down all these links,
• 10:43
  and I have all our schedule and book our guest.
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  And Sam edits the podcast. So that sounds like we're real
• 10:47
  smart. Even though we might pause to
• 10:50
  Google something for 15 minutes, he'll just chop it out and no
• 10:52
  one ever knows that we're not actually smart.
• 10:54
  We've never done that on this podcast.
• 10:56
  No, I mean, I've I've been told that every episode of this
• 10:59
  podcast is completely unedited. That's famously.
• 11:02
  That's what we're known for. But we are actually in the
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  middle right now of 1985, and that means we are discussing
• 11:06
  Muppet Babies Season 2. We are also discussing Jim
• 11:10
  Henson presents The World of Puppetry.
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  We have more episodes of Fraggle Rock coming up with season four
• 11:16
  starting in early 1986. And excitingly, we have The
• 11:21
  Muppets, a celebration of 30 years coming up that we'll be
• 11:23
  talking about pretty soon. So it's it's an interesting
• 11:27
  time, but it also is, you know, it's interesting to do a podcast
• 11:30
  where you'll hear people talk about, you know, Muppet,
• 11:32
  Treasure Island or things like that and you're like, yeah,
• 11:35
  we'll talk about that in eight years maybe.
• 11:41
  Yeah, I appreciate the project that you're doing so much,
• 11:43
  especially because I I would never be able to give that much
• 11:46
  attention to Muppet Babies. I I respect you very much.
• 11:49
  As a as a completionist, I knew what I was signing up for to an
• 11:54
  to an extent. But there's some early episodes
• 11:55
  of commitment where we're talking about like, Oh yeah, you
• 11:58
  know, when we're talking about the 2011 Muppets movie in a
• 12:01
  couple of years and now we're three years in and you know,
• 12:06
  we're still in Fraggle Rock times.
• 12:08
  So we're quite a ways from 2011 and the Internet and YouTube
• 12:12
  hasn't even happened to The Muppets yet.
• 12:13
  So yeah, I'm, I'm fully expecting once we hit 1996, we
• 12:18
  have to, we're going to have to do like 10 episodes about Elmo
• 12:20
  on the Rosie O'Donnell show to cover all of his appearances.
• 12:24
  So, you know, look out for commitment season Elmo coming in
• 12:29
  a few years. Looking forward to it very much.
• 12:32
  It is now time for the Great Muppet Question.
• 12:35
  This week's Great Muppet Question was sent in by JT Hanks
• 12:37
  Leibman, who writes 2023 was a big year for The Muppets.
• 12:40
  It saw the premieres of season 54 of Sesame Street, The Muppets
• 12:43
  Mayhem, Fraggle Rock Rock on Muppets Tonight, Christmas Eve
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  on Sesame Street, the The Moon Landing, and so much more.
• 12:50
  What was your favorite Muppet or Henson moment of 2023?
• 12:53
  Season two of our flag means death.
• 12:56
  Yes, every member of that crew is a Muppet.
• 12:59
  I believe you. I believe you.
• 13:01
  I'll watch it someday. My dad's friend gave me an RCA
• 13:07
  Selectivision disc player, which is for those who don't know and
• 13:12
  nobody should know, is an early competitor of laser discs
• 13:17
  produced by RCA and. For those who don't know what a
• 13:20
  laser disc is. A laser disc.
• 13:22
  So it's a laser disc is like an old fashioned DVD that's 12 inch
• 13:27
  looks like a record. For those that don't know what
• 13:28
  DVDs are. Right.
• 13:31
  DVDs are coasters. So yeah, so we My dad's friend
• 13:40
  Scott gave me his his father's collection of RCA Selectivision
• 13:44
  discs, which included 145 titles.
• 13:47
  And among those 145 titles is Tales from Muppet Land 2, which
• 13:54
  is the second release. And on one side it's the Frog
• 13:57
  Prince, and on the other side it's Hey Cinderella.
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  And when I got my my old video disc player set up from 1982 or
• 14:06
  whatever, first movie I popped in was the Tales from Muppet
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  Land. And guess what I watched?
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  The Frog Prince. It looked like a digitized VHS
• 14:16
  tape. It was.
• 14:18
  It was skipping occasionally, but it sounded pretty good.
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  And this is easily my favorite Muppet or Henson thing of the
• 14:27
  year 2023. Not even close.
• 14:29
  No competition. Somehow, that experience for you
• 14:33
  might also be my favorite Muppet thing 2023.
• 14:37
  I I met Widow Yankovic and made him laugh.
• 14:40
  From Muppet magazine with Fozzie that guy.
• 14:42
  That guy? Yeah, that's the only thing he's
• 14:43
  ever done. Ever.
• 14:45
  Yeah. I.
• 14:45
  Heard of him, Heard of him? I met him and I made him laugh
• 14:47
  like I made Weirdo laugh. Incredible.
• 14:49
  Like I can die happy. I don't remember specifying in
• 14:53
  my question that this was about your favorite brags of 2023, but
• 14:57
  sure, make it all about you. I'm.
• 15:00
  I apologize for bragging that I own an RCA select.
• 15:02
  Division. It's fun.
• 15:03
  It's fun. Listen, I had a rubbish 2023,
• 15:06
  all right? So I get to brag about.
• 15:08
  I get to brag about me. Make a weirdo.
• 15:09
  Oh buddy. You know what?
• 15:12
  Yes, I'll give you that. I watched Meet the Feebles for
• 15:16
  the first time this year, so if anything's going to make you
• 15:19
  appreciate Jim Henson and The Muppets way more, it's watching
• 15:24
  something like Meet the Feebles. Yeah, I I also watched that for
• 15:27
  my first time in 2023. It has a staying power.
• 15:33
  Yeah, you can't ignore it. You can't forget it even if you
• 15:36
  try. It's wild that I had not heard
• 15:40
  of it for such a long time being in in the Muppet fan space.
• 15:43
  It's just everyone completely avoided acknowledging that it
• 15:47
  existed. It wasn't like anyone was being
• 15:49
  funny. No one wanted to joke about it
• 15:52
  at all to. Be fair, was maybe the right
• 15:54
  choice. Yes.
• 15:56
  You should have been on Muppet Central Forum when Fellowship of
• 16:01
  the Ring came. Up.
• 16:02
  You sure I should have? Been It was a very different
• 16:04
  story. I should have been.
• 16:05
  I mean, you were what, 5 or whatever, right?
• 16:07
  I. I just rewatched Fellowship of
• 16:08
  the Ring the other day. It's amazing to watch Fellowship
• 16:11
  of the Ring again and go that's the same man, the same guy, 12
• 16:16
  years, fantastic movie. Like it's it's only 12 years.
• 16:19
  It's not like it's not like it's, you know, 40 years later
• 16:23
  or something like. It's truly unfathomable.
• 16:26
  Wow. So it sounds like you all loved
• 16:29
  what The Muppets were doing in 2023.
• 16:30
  That's great. Well, we're going to jump into
• 16:32
  the news, but I must remind everyone that we're not going to
• 16:35
  cover every single itty bitty dog and Kitty farm and City News
• 16:37
  story this time. This isn't a weekly updates
• 16:39
  show, so if you're looking for that, I don't know.
• 16:42
  Commitment does a pretty good job of keeping up with
• 16:43
  everything. We try, but we also record like
• 16:46
  3 weeks ahead. So if you're looking for actual
• 16:48
  news, I don't know. Good luck.
• 16:51
  Well, you know the best thing in that case?
• 16:53
  If you really want to stay up to date with all the muppet news as
• 16:55
  it's happening, you should go to toughpigs.com and bookmark it.
• 16:59
  With social media being so topsy turvy and unstable lately,
• 17:02
  you're much better off going directly to a website that has
• 17:05
  never had a technical problem or glitch.
• 17:07
  You hallucinated all of those. It turns out a website can have
• 17:11
  more content than its creator ever could have imagined, and it
• 17:14
  will always run perfectly. The Miss Piggy logo is always
• 17:18
  the same size when you load the page.
• 17:20
  Oh. I'm getting PTSD move on.
• 17:26
  Sorry, we'll see if that stays in.
• 17:28
  That all might get edited out. I did not clear any of that with
• 17:31
  Joe beforehand. OK, we're going to start off the
• 17:33
  Muppet News with a story that's quite ungroovy.
• 17:36
  In November, we learned from TV Line that Disney Plus has
• 17:39
  cancelled the Muppet's mayhem. This show that was instantly
• 17:42
  adored by so, so many Muppet fans only lasted 10 episodes.
• 17:46
  That's six fewer than the 2015 ABC show for those of you
• 17:49
  keeping score, but it's creators seem confident that they'll play
• 17:52
  with The Muppets again someday. Weeks after it's cancellation,
• 17:55
  this series won the Emmy Award for Outstanding Children's or
• 17:58
  Family Viewing Series. I'd like to think Disney Plus
• 18:00
  was embarrassed by this Emmy win, but that's probably never
• 18:03
  how winning an Emmy feels. I'll never know, Panelists, are
• 18:07
  you sad to see the show go? I'm sad to see it go.
• 18:11
  I'm not surprised. It also felt like a one season
• 18:15
  thing. It kind of feels like the way
• 18:17
  that Adam Goldberg was sort of setting the whole idea of like a
• 18:21
  Muppet shared universe up or whatever it was.
• 18:24
  Everything feels like it can be separate, like a little
• 18:26
  anthology almost. So cool.
• 18:27
  We had a whole series of Just Muppets.
• 18:29
  Mayhem. Cool.
• 18:31
  Let's do a series of Nearing's Hospital or Pigs in Space or
• 18:35
  whatever it might be and sort of branch out.
• 18:38
  The one thing that disappoints me is I thought Sarah Chowdhry
• 18:41
  was excellent and I'm disappointed that we won't see
• 18:45
  more of her doing stuff, or at least with The Muppets.
• 18:48
  To be fair though, you know we saw Ricky Lindholm get reused in
• 18:51
  this series and she was in the 2015 series.
• 18:54
  So we we've seen plenty of actors, even in recent times
• 18:58
  come back to play with The Muppets again and again.
• 19:00
  So maybe she gets, she gets another chance.
• 19:02
  Because, yeah, I don't know, When Disney cancels the series,
• 19:06
  it doesn't feel like a thing that they're going to
• 19:07
  necessarily say, Here's our expanded Muppet universe.
• 19:11
  I think it's going to be a bit more of like, here's another
• 19:13
  Muppet thing, maybe we don't mention the last one.
• 19:17
  Yeah. Yeah, if we could get Taj Mowry
• 19:20
  back as well, that would be incredible because he was one of
• 19:24
  my favorite parts of that show. Yes, please.
• 19:27
  Do you think for me that that show did feel sort of singular
• 19:31
  in its own way that it like there are obviously questions
• 19:33
  they put the posed out, you know, Janice's sister would have
• 19:36
  been an interesting story to get into in a Season 2.
• 19:39
  And they obviously put some seeds out there that they were
• 19:42
  going to, you know, questions that were going to be answered
• 19:44
  and explored more in a Season 2. But they did it.
• 19:47
  They made a really good show. Like, even without a Season 2, I
• 19:51
  feel like they did a great job of putting out a complete piece
• 19:54
  of great Muppet media last year. Yeah, it's it's coherent.
• 19:58
  It works as something that's self-contained.
• 20:00
  I think it's also something that I got friends and family to
• 20:03
  watch who maybe had fallen off The Muppets a little bit,
• 20:06
  telling them there was a new Muppet show specifically about
• 20:09
  the Electric Mayhem. I think got the more casual fans
• 20:13
  excited, where something like Muppets Haunted Mansion.
• 20:16
  I think you had to have a slight interest in the Haunted Mansion,
• 20:19
  which is an extra level of fandom to really enjoy that.
• 20:23
  And so you're asking more of like your dad or your mom or
• 20:27
  somebody in your family to be like, no, I think you should
• 20:29
  really check this out. I think you might like it if
• 20:31
  they've never ridden the Haunted Mansion, whereas like I feel
• 20:34
  like the Electric Mayhem, like are just liked by lots of
• 20:38
  people. Animal is a lot of people's
• 20:40
  favorite Muppet. So it's.
• 20:42
  I think it's an easier ask to have somebody just watch this
• 20:45
  show. So I'll say that my whole family
• 20:48
  has never been to a Disney park and ridden the like, we've never
• 20:51
  ridden the Haunted Mansion. And my kids just think of that
• 20:54
  thing as a Halloween special. Like they, my, my children, ages
• 20:58
  5 and 9 have. Like, I think that they might
• 21:00
  know it's a ride, but like, they, I bet they've seen it 10
• 21:03
  times and they never once have been.
• 21:06
  Like, I don't understand why the painting is growing or whatever.
• 21:09
  You know, they're just like, it's Halloween stuff.
• 21:12
  I found with This isn't a conversation about Haunted
• 21:15
  Mansion, but it is now. I had been on Haunted Mansion
• 21:18
  years and years ago. I had watched my Consorted
• 21:21
  Mansion. And then I thought to myself,
• 21:23
  you know what? I'm gonna just watch like, a
• 21:25
  ride through of the Haunted Mansion just before I watch it
• 21:29
  again. When I was writing my review and
• 21:32
  I found watching it again, I managed to pick up on every
• 21:35
  single little Easter egg. I was like, right?
• 21:37
  That makes more sense. But I think you're Anthony's
• 21:40
  right in that you don't necessarily have to have watched
• 21:42
  I need to know much about Haunted Mansion Before you
• 21:45
  before you watch that special. Going back to Muppet's mayhem, I
• 21:51
  think what confused a lot of us Muppet fans is that this show
• 21:55
  was very well received. Critics really liked it.
• 22:00
  The casual Muppet fan really liked it.
• 22:02
  People who weren't casual Muppet fans really liked it.
• 22:05
  Yeah, I don't understand why Disney were, like, cool, no
• 22:08
  more. Like, what are you doing?
• 22:10
  Like, this is arguably one of the best things I've done in 10
• 22:13
  years. Everyone really likes it.
• 22:15
  It's winning awards, it's doing all the stuff.
• 22:17
  And now you're just going to be like, yeah, but we're not going
• 22:18
  to make any more. Yeah, I think what you mentioned
• 22:22
  earlier about the like doing it as an anthology show where it's
• 22:25
  like next next season is Bunsen and Beaker Adventures or
• 22:28
  whatever. I think that would have made
• 22:31
  sense to just announce that rather than like like if they
• 22:35
  had said like Muppets Mayhem was a smash hit.
• 22:39
  Next up we're doing bear on patrol.
• 22:42
  All cops are bears. All cops are bears.
• 22:44
  It would have been great if they had found a way to announce that
• 22:49
  without leaning so hard into the idea of the cinematic universe
• 22:54
  framing. Or like saying this is our Iron
• 22:56
  Man, that that may have on some level implanted unrealistic
• 23:00
  expectations in someone's mind. You don't need to hear the
• 23:03
  sentence somehow, Doc Hopper returned and.
• 23:08
  Now I do. The more I think about it, the
• 23:13
  more I like that. I like that a lot.
• 23:16
  Oh gosh, we have a little more Muppet Studio news to follow up
• 23:19
  with from last year. Kermit and Miss Piggy appeared
• 23:22
  in some form in the stage show Jollywood Nights at Disney's
• 23:25
  Hollywood Studios in Orlando, FL.
• 23:27
  It looks like these were the puppets from the Great Muppet
• 23:30
  moments in fandom, panel history, or whatever panelists
• 23:33
  Is this a good use of The Muppets in the parks?
• 23:35
  Yes. Yep.
• 23:36
  Next question. OK.
• 23:37
  Sure. Moving right along.
• 23:39
  No, I think it's a solid idea. I know.
• 23:42
  Obviously The Muppets have been part of Imagineering for some
• 23:45
  weird reason. I don't understand why The
• 23:47
  Muppets are part of Imagineering.
• 23:48
  And Lee Slaughter, who is the current Vice President of Muppet
• 23:53
  Studio, came from Imagineering and has worked in Imagineering
• 23:56
  for a long time. So she's really been pushing.
• 23:59
  She's like, why can't we get The Muppets in the parks, right?
• 24:01
  And especially now they've got these, you know, really nice
• 24:03
  puppets and they obviously trained these puppeteers really
• 24:06
  well. Well, obviously there's the
• 24:07
  whole sort of, you know, Kermit should only have one performer,
• 24:09
  that sort of thing. I almost think this is an OK
• 24:12
  version of going away from that. How dare you?
• 24:15
  How dare you? My gosh, I'm so go ahead and
• 24:18
  explain. Because they're not trying to.
• 24:23
  Because it's it's it's Matt and it's Eric's voices.
• 24:26
  Like, it's just lip syncing along.
• 24:28
  But Jared, the voice is nothing, remember?
• 24:32
  Don't. Don't get me into that argument.
• 24:35
  Don't remember? What your buddy Frank says, Huh.
• 24:37
  Your friend Frank. I've met Frank.
• 24:41
  You've got me off my point now. Thanks very much.
• 24:43
  Happy to do it. It's anonymous.
• 24:44
  I think if it was some like, you know poor 21 year old doing his
• 24:48
  best Kermit impression me to be different, then I'll be going,
• 24:51
  oh, what are we doing? Let let's not do this.
• 24:53
  But the fact that you've got a lot of love going into these
• 24:56
  shows as well. I think this is fine.
• 24:58
  This this I'll allow. OK, so you like the you're
• 25:03
  you're OK with the nature of what they are doing.
• 25:06
  How about the contents of the show or if if you've had time to
• 25:09
  see it, absolutely no pressure. If you have not, it is, I would
• 25:12
  say, not an important enough thing.
• 25:13
  Yeah, I have skimmed it. I was more just, I was curious
• 25:16
  to see how the puppetry looked and how those puppets move
• 25:19
  because they're slightly bigger than the normal puppets and not
• 25:21
  sort of made of the same stuff. I think they made to be a little
• 25:23
  more durable. It was fine.
• 25:25
  It was medium Muppet material. It could have been better.
• 25:29
  Could have been a hell of a lot worse.
• 25:31
  Yeah, I watched it in my kitchen on my iPad while doing the
• 25:35
  dishes and it has like background noise.
• 25:39
  In the month of December, it was fine.
• 25:41
  It was pleasant. I didn't take out a second
• 25:46
  mortgage on my house to go see it, you know, and that's why I
• 25:51
  was fine with it being pleasant. I don't know.
• 25:54
  I feel like you're in the room. It it, it seems like it would be
• 25:58
  underwhelming, but what do I know?
• 26:00
  I think they've also just used The Muppets in this manner
• 26:03
  better at the parks. I think in like mobile Muppet
• 26:07
  Labs was great. The great moments in American
• 26:10
  history, something I was like great I was.
• 26:13
  I was grateful to see live. When I went to the parks before
• 26:17
  was fantastic, Felt extremely on brand for The Muppets and even
• 26:22
  they did The Muppets Christmas caroling coach a couple years
• 26:26
  ago. Felt like it had its own
• 26:29
  personality to it. Whereas this I like that they
• 26:33
  don't forget The Muppets exist and that they are using them in
• 26:36
  the parks, but I definitely don't think this is the best use
• 26:39
  of them in the parks. What would you like to see for
• 26:42
  Muppets in the parks? I mean, the fact that Sam got a
• 26:45
  restaurant is truly wild. Like, I don't know why they
• 26:49
  don't, like, lean into something more there.
• 26:51
  Because it is they they decided to give Sam the Eagle entire
• 26:56
  restaurant, which is the boldest, weirdest Muppet Disney
• 27:00
  choice they've made in a while. But I think, obviously, I think
• 27:03
  like most people, the Muppet courtyard being a true Muppet
• 27:07
  courtyard in some way and just would be amazing.
• 27:12
  And then obviously the other secondary one would be having
• 27:15
  the Electric Mayhem rock and roller coaster which you know
• 27:18
  when ATV show about them gets cancelled.
• 27:20
  Maybe isn't the best omen that that might happen someday, but
• 27:24
  you'd still love to see it, because who the hell listens to
• 27:26
  Aerosmith these days? My brother-in-law.
• 27:29
  No. If he can go like 1000 * a year
• 27:31
  to Disney World and keep that ride afloat, maybe they'll have
• 27:35
  a good reason to keep Aerosmith on that ride.
• 27:37
  My nephew would enjoy that. All right, somehow that's how
• 27:42
  we're concluding our conversation about Jollywood
• 27:44
  nights, unless anyone else has anything else to add.
• 27:47
  So I I can, Having watched the thing and recording, like I
• 27:50
  said, there's like it's 1/2 hour show.
• 27:53
  It's not like it's, you know, it's not like it's a 2 hour
• 27:55
  spectacular. But in that half hour, there's
• 27:58
  maybe 10 minutes of Muppet content.
• 28:01
  Yeah, it's the the Muppet stuff is incredibly light.
• 28:04
  It's very spaced out. I imagine they were giving, you
• 28:07
  know, puppeteers, arms, tire time to rest or what have you.
• 28:09
  And they wanted to feature other stuff and other characters,
• 28:11
  'cause they have an incredibly strange segment with Mickey and
• 28:15
  Minnie where they come out on stage at the same time but are
• 28:18
  supposed to be like unable to see each other it as they're it
• 28:23
  likes in two different places. It's so odd.
• 28:26
  And there's this framing device that they kind of tease and
• 28:31
  allude to slowly along the way, but then only mention explicitly
• 28:35
  way into it that it's you're watching them filming ATV
• 28:40
  Special, a Christmas TV special, like an old fashioned Christmas
• 28:44
  special. It's really not clear up front.
• 28:46
  And so at a certain point they're like we're going to
• 28:48
  commercial and it's like what? How we're Disney World is a
• 28:53
  commercial. How are you going to go to a
• 28:55
  commercial? Truly one of the strangest
• 28:57
  things. And Kermit and Piggy are not
• 29:00
  especially funny in it, but I guess it's kind of authentic.
• 29:05
  I don't know. It's, it's.
• 29:07
  Authentic to what? Well, that's The thing is is
• 29:10
  like, I believed that it was Kermit and Piggy there is what I
• 29:15
  mean. Like it was kind of believable.
• 29:17
  Like Kermit talked the way that you expect Kermit to talk, which
• 29:21
  is boringly and patronizingly to Miss Piggy.
• 29:24
  And Miss Piggy talked the way that you expect Miss Piggy to
• 29:26
  talk, which is thinking everything is about her.
• 29:29
  Right. So you mean you mean in the year
• 29:31
  2023 the way you expect? I know, right?
• 29:34
  I. Mean.
• 29:34
  That's what you mean? It is.
• 29:37
  He doesn't. He doesn't know all about her
• 29:38
  career pig anymore. Yeah.
• 29:42
  It's real sad. I will just add there is
• 29:46
  something magical about getting to see The Muppets in person and
• 29:53
  it's it's bringing me back to when I got to see a screening of
• 29:58
  the 2011 movie with something that was very, very similar to
• 30:03
  this. You know there was like a a live
• 30:05
  Kermit and Piggy there and a human host to banter with them
• 30:08
  and obviously it was you know pre recorded voices and local
• 30:12
  puppeteers. But at the time, I wasn't as
• 30:17
  deep of a Muppet nerd as I am now.
• 30:19
  And so I was just so amazed and honored to be getting to see
• 30:24
  Muppets in person. And I knew it wasn't, quote, UN
• 30:28
  quote, real Muppets, whatever that word means in that context.
• 30:34
  But it was so special. And if shows like this allow
• 30:41
  people to have that kind of experience, then cool, I I'm a
• 30:45
  fan. You know, I would love it to
• 30:48
  have some better writing. But also if it lets you know,
• 30:53
  somebody go like, Oh my God, I got to see Kermit and Piggy.
• 30:56
  Actually, they're live in person then cool.
• 30:59
  Good for them. Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:02
  It can be a very special thing. While we've been talking about
• 31:06
  Kermit and Piggy and how they function in modern media, I want
• 31:11
  to bring in our first discussion question from a panelist with
• 31:16
  Jared. Could you tell us what your
• 31:18
  discussion question is today? Yes.
• 31:20
  So I've been talking about Kermit and Piggy.
• 31:22
  I'm specifically Piggy. I wanna know, is Muppet on
• 31:26
  Muppet Violence funny? Yes.
• 31:29
  OK, so I. Start the context.
• 31:31
  OK, so didn't I tell you, JD, This is what had this
• 31:34
  conversation would go so I you. Didn't tell me anything about
• 31:38
  how this conversation would go, no.
• 31:39
  But I said people would have different opinions and so was
• 31:42
  that. So far the two people are
• 31:44
  singled out as having different opinions, have expressed the
• 31:47
  different opinions. And that's why I wanted to have
• 31:48
  these conversations. But Beth and Anthony, So like,
• 31:53
  there's been a lot of conversation, not so much
• 31:55
  recently, but especially last year.
• 31:57
  There was some conversation about Miss Piggy and like Crying
• 31:59
  Chopping and stuff like that. And it led to a lot of people
• 32:04
  saying that they didn't like the crud chopping and talking about
• 32:08
  that sort of thing. And it was at a time where like
• 32:11
  I couldn't really come up with like an article about it.
• 32:13
  So I sort of just let it slide. And then recently, I've just got
• 32:18
  thinking about it again. So you know, Anthony, you say
• 32:21
  yes. Is that yes, across the board?
• 32:23
  Whereas you know Beth, you just said.
• 32:25
  It depends on context. Well, I don't think anything.
• 32:29
  I don't think every example of anything is funny like is is.
• 32:34
  Are all jokes involving Muppet violence funny?
• 32:37
  No, of course not. Like that's never the case with
• 32:39
  anything. But I to me, The Muppets are so
• 32:44
  abstract and it's to me it's similar to like to like Looney
• 32:48
  Tunes or something. Yes, where the the point is very
• 32:52
  much. That it is cartoon violence.
• 32:55
  Yes. And the violence in either of
• 32:57
  those two in like puppet violence or cartoon violence, it
• 33:00
  never hits me in a way that feels real, like I don't cause
• 33:06
  like I I in real life I am a pacifist like to to the core.
• 33:13
  But I don't know, man. There's something about
• 33:15
  watching, you know, Muppet's head get exploded because he
• 33:20
  doesn't drink Wilkins coffee or watching Daffy Duck get shot
• 33:25
  square in the face that makes me laugh out loud every single
• 33:31
  time. And I can't explain why.
• 33:35
  You know, like, like I'll watch the Looney Tunes with my kids
• 33:38
  even. Or or Sam, like Wilkins and
• 33:40
  Wilkins commercials and things that, like, I would not want
• 33:45
  them to, to experience in real life.
• 33:48
  You know, Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't want my kids to watch
• 33:51
  jokes about shooting in a live action context, of course.
• 33:54
  But in it, when it's there's that removal of puppetry or or
• 33:58
  animation, it's just like like every time, like I'm just losing
• 34:03
  my mind, my kids are losing our minds over it, you know, And it
• 34:08
  it never feels real enough to offend me personally, you know?
• 34:13
  And I guess that's what The thing is for me.
• 34:15
  Sure. And there are degree.
• 34:16
  What what's interesting here is there are degrees of abstraction
• 34:20
  between Muppet productions and even a different moments in
• 34:23
  Muppet productions. And so there's Muppet stuff
• 34:26
  that's really abstract and cartoony again, especially like
• 34:30
  in the in the early sketches. And then you get to stuff that's
• 34:34
  more narrative driven and character based where the
• 34:37
  characters are supposed to have several dimensions to them.
• 34:39
  And then for me at least, I start to think of them a little
• 34:42
  bit more as people. Sure.
• 34:46
  Although I think the Muppet movie, there's like that very
• 34:50
  real feeling that Kermit might get shot with a gun by a human,
• 34:53
  you know? Whereas if if Doc Hopper had a
• 34:56
  henchman that was, you know, Thog or something, it wouldn't,
• 35:01
  it wouldn't hit the thing, it wouldn't feel real, you know
• 35:03
  what I mean? In that three-dimensional, like,
• 35:06
  more realistic movie, I think the the assassin still needs to
• 35:09
  be a human for it to for it to hit.
• 35:13
  There's such a big difference in feeling between like a Wilkins
• 35:16
  coffee commercial versus the Gelflings being haunted down in
• 35:22
  Age of Resistance and drained of their essence and, you know,
• 35:27
  having to fight guerrilla warfare.
• 35:30
  And it's not just the more realistic looking puppets, it's
• 35:38
  also what you were talking about JD.
• 35:41
  These are now 3 dimensional characters that we're supposed
• 35:44
  to, you know, identify with and and that definitely makes it
• 35:49
  feel different. I think that's this makes this
• 35:52
  like this is. I feel like we're getting at the
• 35:54
  root of The Muppets and why it's hard to write for The Muppets
• 35:58
  because it's such a narrow needle to thread, because it's
• 36:02
  always about the context. It's always what happened to
• 36:05
  just before and just after, because we do need those serious
• 36:10
  emotional moments sometimes where we connect to these
• 36:13
  characters like they're real, and sometimes those are the best
• 36:15
  moments. You have Gonzo singing my way on
• 36:17
  The Muppet Show and you're like, Oh my, this is a real person who
• 36:21
  I feel for and I want to cry. But also, I like watching him
• 36:25
  crash his motorcycle into a theater box occupied by two
• 36:27
  elderly men, and both things can be true.
• 36:32
  And I think it's maybe harder now because we don't see The
• 36:37
  Muppets as often. And when we do, we typically see
• 36:40
  them treated more like people than like cartoon characters
• 36:44
  come to life, especially after the 2015 series, which I am
• 36:47
  personally a big fan of saying. But it's hard to argue that that
• 36:50
  that series does not present them as, you know, people
• 36:53
  essentially. And so seeing them slap each
• 36:58
  other around in a workplace on that show might be a little bit
• 37:01
  weirder than somebody hurting somebody on The Muppet Show just
• 37:06
  because, again, Fraggle Rock, you see Fraggles get tossed down
• 37:10
  the well by Junior Gorg and you're like, they're fine.
• 37:13
  It's fun. Like, I understand the violence
• 37:15
  level that's happening here. They're going to survive that.
• 37:18
  But it's something where I think it is scaled back on back to the
• 37:21
  rock. So I think it's also something
• 37:23
  about the era we're in now and we don't want kids recreating
• 37:27
  some of these things. And maybe we've learned from
• 37:29
  past mistakes. But there are times I feel like
• 37:33
  when Muppet violence is perfectly acceptable as long as
• 37:36
  you know someone's there to communicate to the kids that
• 37:38
  like just cause Miss Piggy doesn't, doesn't mean you get to
• 37:41
  do it. Yeah, right.
• 37:42
  Yeah, they work best when they're very real, and they also
• 37:45
  work best and only work best when they're very much not real.
• 37:49
  I don't know how to solve that conundrum.
• 37:51
  Not really. And that's not for us to solve.
• 37:53
  I think only Jerry Jewell knew. I I really do like, yeah, I I
• 37:57
  think other people have written good Muppet stuff.
• 38:00
  Like, you know what I mean? I'm not going to sit here and be
• 38:02
  like, well, every everything without Jerry Jewell's name on
• 38:05
  it is garbage. That's not what I'm saying.
• 38:07
  But I do think he had an an innate sense of what what made
• 38:12
  those characters tick that no one has quite had since.
• 38:17
  Beth, what discussion question have you brought for us?
• 38:20
  So Tough Pig shared the news that there's going to be a new
• 38:24
  collaborative show with Brian and Wendy Fraud and The Jim
• 38:28
  Henson Company specifically about Brian Fraud's fairies.
• 38:33
  I personally am not worried about the quality of this
• 38:39
  endeavor. I am worried about one, it
• 38:43
  getting to happen at all and two, if it does immediately
• 38:48
  getting cancelled, what what do we think the chances are that
• 38:53
  this could turn into something lasting?
• 38:57
  Look, if I see the phrase the Jim Henson Company are making
• 39:01
  something, I will leave it when I see it.
• 39:04
  How many times have we been told Jim Henson Company are doing
• 39:07
  this? How many of them have ever come
• 39:09
  out? So it sounds amazing and it
• 39:12
  sounds like it'd be wonderful. I'll believe it when I see it.
• 39:16
  I am firmly a believer in the idea that if a show is only one
• 39:23
  season, but it's real great, that's fine.
• 39:25
  A lot of my favorite TV shows of all time are, you know, Freaks
• 39:31
  and Geeks, The the live action Tick, the first one with Patrick
• 39:35
  Warburton. The I mean the The Jim Henson
• 39:37
  Hour, for heaven's sakes, is one of my favorite things.
• 39:41
  And I really feel like if something dies young but but is
• 39:47
  a joy, that's just something great that I get to watch over
• 39:51
  and over, you know? OK.
• 39:53
  How do I adopt that mindset? Because I just keep getting my
• 39:56
  heart broken with all of these cancellations.
• 39:58
  I, I but. But I'm also like at heart, I'm
• 40:01
  a movie guy. Also like I, I, I I tend to look
• 40:06
  at a show that has run for like three seasons and be like, I
• 40:11
  don't want to catch up on this. I'm going to watch 36 movies
• 40:14
  instead. You know, or whatever.
• 40:17
  And so to me, it's like Dark Crystal Age of Resistance is a
• 40:20
  perfect example to me where it's it's remarkable that that
• 40:24
  happened that we have those 10 episodes that look great to me,
• 40:29
  are much more engaging than the movie, frankly.
• 40:32
  And like they they didn't do a second season.
• 40:35
  That's fine. I get to.
• 40:37
  I get to watch it again. I get to.
• 40:38
  I get to see what's fine because.
• 40:41
  Fine. Because I get to like, let me
• 40:45
  let me think of how to phrase this.
• 40:47
  There is. I love this conversation.
• 40:50
  So much 10 hours long already. That is, it is like 6 1/2 times
• 40:56
  the length of the movie. And like Deep and Hub are.
• 41:04
  They're so special to me. Beth and I never, But Jared
• 41:11
  doesn't believe in sincerity. I never had to watch that show
• 41:16
  go downhill. I never had to write a tough
• 41:19
  pigs article about how this show isn't as good as it used to be.
• 41:25
  And that's fine. You know, like if a show, if a
• 41:29
  show burns bright and then all we have is the memories.
• 41:32
  I don't know. Great.
• 41:33
  That's that's fine with me. There's something else to watch.
• 41:36
  Who cares? OK, maybe I just need to
• 41:39
  practice getting into that mindset.
• 41:41
  You know what you do? You you start a podcast where
• 41:44
  you agree to watch everything they're ever going to make.
• 41:46
  And then suddenly when they're like, hey, there's less episodes
• 41:49
  of this thing you have to watch 10 years from now, you're like,
• 41:53
  yeah. You know what?
• 41:54
  Maybe it's OK. That that one ended after a
• 41:56
  season. There you go.
• 41:59
  OK, fair. I I also, I've very much adopted
• 42:03
  a mindset. I've been burnt too many times.
• 42:05
  Too many good shows have been cancelled after maybe not one
• 42:08
  but maybe two or three seasons. So I watch a show now, a show
• 42:13
  that's still running. I watch it now and I watched
• 42:16
  that last episode of a season as if this could be it.
• 42:20
  And so I remember watching like the first time.
• 42:24
  It really, really devastated me that something had been
• 42:27
  cancelled on a cliffhanger was the Last man on earth like that.
• 42:33
  Now bless Will Forte, because he came out and told everyone what
• 42:36
  was what probably would have happened and I was like, all
• 42:38
  right, cool. So I still get a little bit of
• 42:39
  closure, but like I have been watching that show Upload,
• 42:43
  that's on Prime, which I really enjoy.
• 42:47
  That just ended season three. I watched the end of that season
• 42:51
  and I'm like, I don't know if it's coming back.
• 42:53
  I couldn't see anything about it's coming back.
• 42:55
  So I'm like cool, that could be it.
• 42:56
  So I've just had to adopt that mindset.
• 42:59
  So I I almost don't get disappointed now when things are
• 43:05
  cancelled. I go in expecting the worst and
• 43:08
  hoping for the best. And so I find that way I can't
• 43:12
  be disappointed, which is probably quite a pessimistic way
• 43:17
  of of of of going about things, but that's all right.
• 43:19
  So, Beth, if you sing the Mel Brooks song, hope for the best,
• 43:23
  expect the worst to yourself over and over and over, then I
• 43:27
  think you'll be just fine. OK, note to self.
• 43:31
  I'm also I I am just I Sometimes I feel like the Henson Company
• 43:36
  makes decisions and I'm like, who who's calling the shots over
• 43:39
  there? Just a weird This is a weird
• 43:42
  idea. I was going to go on an angry
• 43:44
  rant about the streaming services because like, OK,
• 43:47
  they're they're working, you know, with Amazon.
• 43:50
  Like, do I trust Amazon at this point?
• 43:53
  No. They cancelled The League of
• 43:55
  Their Own, Disney cancelled Muppets Mayhem and Willow Max
• 43:59
  cancelled our flag Means Death. Netflix cancelled Age of
• 44:02
  Resistance. I don't trust any of these
• 44:03
  streaming services anymore to put art above profit.
• 44:07
  Why would I? Why would anyone now that I'm
• 44:10
  saying that out loud? Right.
• 44:13
  No, that's the thing. That's that's why I think any
• 44:17
  any creative success is a miracle.
• 44:25
  I guess this is just making me frustrated.
• 44:27
  As someone who's trying to make a a creative career, it's like,
• 44:32
  what's what's the point if you're just going to get
• 44:34
  cancelled anyway? If you get a glimmer of hope and
• 44:37
  then like poof, it's gone well. Look at it this way, Beth.
• 44:41
  You might only get a fraction of a glimmer if you get greenlit
• 44:44
  and they film the thing and then still don't release it.
• 44:48
  That could always happen instead.
• 44:49
  So yeah, that's the worst scenario.
• 44:51
  It's. Fine, it's fine.
• 44:52
  This is all fine, Anthony. What's your discussion question?
• 44:57
  Well, my discussion question is actually semi related to this.
• 45:02
  Another recent announcement was that Henson and Shout Factory
• 45:07
  announced that Shout will be licensing the Dark Crystal and
• 45:09
  Fraggle Rock. We've heard about some digital
• 45:11
  releases of these things also, but I imagine we'll be getting
• 45:15
  the millionth Blu-ray release of those two movies.
• 45:20
  So my question is, do you think physical media still has value
• 45:24
  in the streaming age? Yes.
• 45:27
  Oh my God, the with everything getting cancelled and then
• 45:31
  pulled. Like you can't own a physical
• 45:33
  copy of Willow now, you can only either pirate it or never see it
• 45:40
  again. And if that's going to continue
• 45:43
  to happen, physical media has to continue to exist.
• 45:47
  See, this is where I turn around and I have no sympathy for the
• 45:52
  studios when it comes to paring. That's where I'm like, you know
• 45:54
  what, you've made your own bed. Now you lie in it.
• 45:57
  I I like Disney turned around last year and announced they
• 46:02
  were no longer doing physical media in Australia.
• 46:04
  I think we were like the test. Run.
• 46:06
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:07
  So everything is gone. We used to go into like our big
• 46:11
  almost like Best Buy or something like that.
• 46:13
  We would go into these big box stores and they would have all
• 46:16
  the DVDs and Blu rays and there was a section just for Disney
• 46:19
  that's all gone. And so you know, they're going
• 46:22
  to like if you look at that movie they released last year,
• 46:24
  Moon or something like that, it was some bad kids in space.
• 46:28
  I don't know exactly what it was.
• 46:29
  And Disney released it and I think 3 weeks later, we're like,
• 46:32
  cool, we're taking it off streaming.
• 46:34
  Obviously there's reasons for it.
• 46:35
  I don't understand it, but now there's no way if you're in
• 46:37
  Australia, I think they released it on DVD in America.
• 46:40
  But if you're in Australia, there is no way for you to get
• 46:42
  that now, right? I do think I like, I recently
• 46:46
  got rid of a lot of DV DS. I moved about 18 months ago, got
• 46:49
  rid of every DVD I had. But I think I kept maybe 30 of
• 46:54
  them because they were significant, although things
• 46:57
  that I could not find in any other place.
• 46:59
  So for that I'm like I see, I see the value in it, but also I
• 47:04
  find physical media can get so expensive and it's such a pain
• 47:08
  to store as well that for me I will probably just and I speak
• 47:13
  for myself and not the brand. I will continue to pair all
• 47:16
  things because it's just easier for me.
• 47:19
  Yeah, I have a not a huge physical media collection, but I
• 47:22
  definitely have a lot of movies where if it suddenly disappeared
• 47:25
  from the Internet, I would be disappointed.
• 47:28
  Kind of DVD's, Blu rays, 4K's like all in my collection.
• 47:33
  And yeah, I think it's a shame now that it feels like a real
• 47:36
  possibility that The Muppets mayhem could be deleted from
• 47:38
  Disney Plus and we could not legally watch it.
• 47:42
  And going through a lot of old Muppet stuff, it makes more
• 47:45
  sense that, you know, Tinker D isn't on Disney Plus.
• 47:47
  But the idea that Disney Plus would make an original Muppet
• 47:51
  show and then just delete it, which again, we don't know that
• 47:54
  that's happening or will ever happen.
• 47:56
  But it feels possible because like you said, that movie you're
• 47:59
  mentioning is called Crater. That was like, yeah, kids going
• 48:02
  to the moon. It was like a Disney Plus
• 48:03
  original movie about kids going to space.
• 48:05
  And the only way you can get it now is to pay for it on other
• 48:08
  streaming platforms like Amazon Prime or something.
• 48:10
  And it's like you can't even get it from the platform that
• 48:13
  created it. And it's it's truly a weird,
• 48:17
  weird time that I feel like something will settle in like 5
• 48:21
  years. They'll figure out what to do
• 48:23
  with this stuff. And we might not have as many
• 48:26
  shows coming out as rapidly as we do right now, because I think
• 48:29
  maybe they're stretching themselves a bit too thin and
• 48:31
  that that rubber band is snapping back in the form of
• 48:34
  many cancellations. But I think physical media
• 48:37
  especially is important for you know that you mentioned the Frog
• 48:42
  Prince and like, hey, Cinderella and it's we wouldn't have the
• 48:47
  versions we have now on the Internet to watch unless
• 48:49
  somebody had ripped a piece of physical media at some point.
• 48:53
  Because a lot of these things that just aired before the age
• 48:56
  of the Internet, like if you didn't see it that one time it
• 48:59
  aired on ABC at 7:00 at night on Tuesday, you didn't get to watch
• 49:04
  it again unless somebody recorded it later.
• 49:07
  So I am eternally grateful for physical media, both new and
• 49:10
  old. Yeah, we've kind of been asking
• 49:13
  for a very long time for more and more and more Muppet
• 49:16
  material to go on Disney Plus. And I suspect that if that
• 49:21
  happened, then it might be harder to see the stuff that is
• 49:25
  currently on YouTube on places like YouTube.
• 49:28
  And personally, I feel like we've kind of lucked out that
• 49:32
  Disney has largely just turned the other way and ignored all of
• 49:37
  the copies of Muppet Family Christmas that are just around.
• 49:40
  Because it would be nice for them to acknowledge it and
• 49:42
  feature it in a nice shiny package with a good poster on it
• 49:47
  and make it more visible to families and stuff.
• 49:51
  But like, we've got a lot of ways to watch it as it is that
• 49:54
  maybe would start to disappear if there was one official,
• 49:58
  probably heavily edited version of it that was the one that we
• 50:01
  had to watch. So I don't know.
• 50:04
  I guess what I'm saying is I'm kind of OK with the total
• 50:07
  collapse of the streaming model I'll live.
• 50:11
  But would The Muppets mayhem have existed without it?
• 50:15
  Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
• 50:16
  Right. In Fraggle news, we're going
• 50:19
  back-to-back to the Rock. The second season premieres on
• 50:22
  Apple TV Plus on Friday, March 29th, which is this Friday if
• 50:27
  you wait until March 24th through March 28th to listen to
• 50:30
  this podcast. As for what the new season, I
• 50:35
  get bored when I'm writing these scripts.
• 50:37
  And then that. Beginning of the year, you
• 50:39
  cannot mess with people's perceptions of time like.
• 50:42
  That yes, I have. You never seen time Peace.
• 50:45
  As fans of Jim Henson, we have an obligation to mess with
• 50:48
  people's perception of time. Now, you made me promise before
• 50:52
  this podcast that I wouldn't make a joke about firing you.
• 50:55
  You made me promise. We had a conversation about it.
• 50:57
  I didn't make you promise and. I'm not gonna say it.
• 50:59
  I'm not gonna say it, OK? I'm not gonna say it.
• 51:01
  That's all. That's all.
• 51:03
  Move on. Continue.
• 51:04
  I told Joe that when he we were talking about who was on the
• 51:07
  lineup for this podcast, I said I can't wait for Jared to tell
• 51:10
  us who's fired. I was told it wasn't allowed to
• 51:14
  continue on. Good.
• 51:15
  I never do it again. I I I agree.
• 51:18
  This is the opinion that I endorse, but I can only have
• 51:21
  some control over it for this podcast.
• 51:23
  OK, moving on. Can I come work at commitment
• 51:26
  instead? I mean, sure, we don't have any
• 51:29
  money neither way. Neither do.
• 51:31
  We neither do we, Yeah. That's fair.
• 51:35
  The biggest Muppet coup in the fandom right now.
• 51:39
  Commitment steals Jared from tough pigs.
• 51:41
  I don't know what I don't know to do what but I.
• 51:44
  Mean we still, Jared? We still Jared from Muppet
• 51:46
  Mindset, so. Yeah, Jared can't be trusted, is
• 51:48
  what we're saying. No, I can be bought.
• 51:50
  That's what it is. I can be bought.
• 51:52
  For. $1.00 I'll take it. At this point in my life, I'll
• 51:56
  take it. As for what this new season of
• 52:00
  Fraggle Rock, Back to the Rock will entail?
• 52:02
  And and Belubius, that was a weird joke.
• 52:05
  Apple has stated the following in the I'm sorry, wow, that that
• 52:11
  was two really weird jokes too close together.
• 52:12
  I'm so sorry, OK? I'm making it so hot.
• 52:15
  I I was fine until I saw Anthony start to fall over and then and
• 52:20
  then I was not fine. I'm so it's it's 10:58 PM here.
• 52:23
  OK, all right. Apple has stated the following
• 52:28
  in the second season of the Emmy award-winning series, Fraggle
• 52:31
  Rock Back to the Rock, the reboot of Jim Henson's beloved
• 52:34
  classic Fraggle Rock, the Fraggles are back for more epic
• 52:37
  fun adventures, This time with big changes affecting the Rock.
• 52:40
  The Fraggles, The Doozers and Gorgs will be forced to confront
• 52:44
  their past and celebrate their independence as they move
• 52:48
  through challenges together with hope.
• 52:50
  JD, JD, JD. It does say interdependence not.
• 52:53
  Interdependence. That's the opposite of
• 52:55
  independence. Sure.
• 52:56
  Dependence. Wow.
• 52:59
  I've read over this a couple of times and never seen that.
• 53:03
  Ah, that makes a million times more sense.
• 53:05
  I've been so confused by this. Dang wow.
• 53:09
  You mean a Fraggle show's going to talk about interdependence?
• 53:12
  I can't. That's I can't believe.
• 53:14
  That I never would have. Guessed.
• 53:16
  They're busting out the pipe bangers, baby.
• 53:19
  Oh, OK, so they're going to move through challenges together with
• 53:23
  hope, silliness, and brand new songs, all while dancing their
• 53:26
  cares away down at Fraggle Rock. So, so the description's kind of
• 53:28
  nothing. Yeah, yeah, it's words.
• 53:32
  It's words, but thank you for calling me out of my inability
• 53:35
  to read. That really has made me feel so
• 53:37
  much better about the new season.
• 53:38
  We would not have done it if it weren't such a crucial.
• 53:42
  It's really crucial that you know you're good, you're you're
• 53:45
  thank you. I'm truly wow.
• 53:48
  But the confront their past part?
• 53:51
  I think I did read correctly, yes, because that's pretty
• 53:55
  different from anything Fraggle Rock has ever done before.
• 53:57
  So yes and no. Yeah, Booba's going to have to
• 54:00
  explain some tweaks that he made about 10 years ago.
• 54:04
  Thank you for the pity laugh, Beth.
• 54:05
  Go on. I think Back to the Rock is
• 54:09
  perfectly primed to give us a reckoning with the legacy of
• 54:14
  colonization metaphor. I'm not sure how exactly I know
• 54:19
  I have my head cannons about how I imagined it could happen.
• 54:24
  But just as an example, talking about the fact that they set up
• 54:29
  a museum for all of these treasures that Traveling Matt
• 54:34
  sends them, that right there, you need to at some point
• 54:38
  address the problematic history of museums.
• 54:41
  Not just history, present problematic existence of museums
• 54:47
  and how they got the artifacts that they contain and the
• 54:51
  artworks that they contain. Now, most of the things that
• 54:55
  Traveling Matt has sent back have been, you know, things that
• 54:58
  wouldn't be very missed by by the silly creatures that he's
• 55:03
  getting them from. And some objects were pulled
• 55:06
  from the trash, from the craggles and the murgles and
• 55:09
  whatnot, but the very last thing they put in it was a presumably
• 55:14
  expensive digital camera that belonged to dock and traveling
• 55:18
  mat just took it, and that needs to be addressed.
• 55:22
  And that's just one piece of how they could start to look at Hey,
• 55:29
  we might have done some bad things in the past, or our
• 55:32
  ancestors might have made some terrible decisions that we now
• 55:36
  feel ashamed of and have to reckon with how that past
• 55:42
  effects our present and the choices that we now have to make
• 55:46
  for the sake of the future. Gosh, I hope you're right.
• 55:49
  I think the the handling of the Icy Joe episode.
• 55:52
  Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
• 55:53
  Really. Well, for this kind of thing,
• 55:55
  because Icy Joe is so much this like it's a lot of messages in
• 55:59
  one where it's like the don't meet your heroes kind of thing.
• 56:02
  But it's also this, you know, outdated mentalities and
• 56:06
  different generations having to teach older generations about,
• 56:10
  you know, that's not how we behave anymore.
• 56:14
  And so I think if any show can do it, Back To the Rock can make
• 56:18
  that kind of pivot and handle that pretty well.
• 56:23
  You know, I think they prove themselves in in season one that
• 56:27
  they are capable of tackling complicated issues in sometimes
• 56:32
  mostly subtle ways. Well, and I think also like the
• 56:37
  original series touched on this to a certain degree as well,
• 56:41
  Beth, what's the episode with the stone Doozers, The Doozers
• 56:44
  who build the stone? The Cavern of Lost Dreams.
• 56:48
  Cavern of Lost Dreams. Yeah.
• 56:49
  And that's kind of all about how the Stone Doozers are like a a
• 56:53
  not not really a relic but like kind of and times have changed
• 56:56
  and like society can't stay the same forever.
• 57:00
  So so like there's and even like the Gorgs like we when we hear
• 57:03
  about the Gorgs history it's like how did these three this
• 57:06
  one family determine that they were the leaders of the
• 57:09
  universe. You know, there's there's always
• 57:11
  this subtext of bumbling colonization, perhaps, but like,
• 57:16
  they just, like, rolled in and decided they're in charge of the
• 57:19
  universe, you know, so I. Feel like any character in
• 57:22
  Fraggle Rock, whether it Gorg or Fraggle, could find out pretty
• 57:25
  easily that they had an ancestor that had a not so shiny past or
• 57:30
  did some horrible stuff in the past that they're going to have
• 57:33
  to reckon with. Like, you know, it won't
• 57:35
  necessarily be uncle travelling Matt, but like maybe Boober has
• 57:38
  an uncle that he holds up as a hero and loves and talks about
• 57:41
  all the thing and they start reading his journal and they're
• 57:43
  like, hey Boober, your uncle had some troubling opinions that
• 57:47
  we're going to have to deal with.
• 57:49
  Right. Yeah, very easy to imagine.
• 57:52
  They also touched on it in the Giggle Gaggle games.
• 57:56
  I can't believe I said that without starting.
• 57:58
  Back to the Rock season one, right?
• 58:01
  Yeah, where you know Moki has this book all about the Craggles
• 58:08
  that she eventually finds out was not written by Craggles.
• 58:12
  Yeah. So I don't think it's outside of
• 58:14
  the purview of Fraggle Rock as we've seen in the previous six
• 58:17
  seasons. You know, I don't, I don't.
• 58:20
  I don't think it's anything to worry about.
• 58:21
  I think they'll they'll do it, and it'll be entertaining and
• 58:25
  enlightening. What I think's good with Fraggle
• 58:28
  Rock, like especially looking at Back to the Rock season one,
• 58:31
  they're not too heavy-handed with it.
• 58:32
  We're going to do it a nice, nuanced way where it's like
• 58:35
  accessible to everyone, easy to understand, a couple of
• 58:38
  different layers. But it's not going to be like
• 58:40
  all our ancestors were awful, and so is Buba's uncle, or
• 58:44
  whatever it might be. As long as they As long as they
• 58:47
  stay out of the echo chamber. Again, that was the only one
• 58:51
  where. It's like on the nose.
• 58:53
  Like you can't call it an echo chamber.
• 58:55
  Come on. Yeah, yeah.
• 58:57
  Anyway, at this point I think we're starting to move towards
• 59:00
  the end because we've covered both of the studios making
• 59:03
  Muppet content. That's enough for us to turn our
• 59:06
  attention to the Muppet fan community.
• 59:09
  We're still making the best of things on social media, despite
• 59:11
  the way that we're a little more scattered than we used to be.
• 59:14
  I'm really happy to see the tough pigs.
• 59:15
  Discord server has become busy with activity rather quickly,
• 59:18
  with the Muppet Twitter Awards giving us a chance to show our
• 59:21
  appreciation for each other. There's been a lot of good vibes
• 59:25
  and kindness flowing around the Muppet fan sphere lately.
• 59:28
  What I wanted to talk about tonight is, is what we make of
• 59:32
  the tension and unkindness. But I don't even know how to
• 59:35
  begin to talk about that. I've been kind of nervous about
• 59:38
  it. So I'm going to make Matthew
• 59:40
  begin to talk about it And said, Matthew, what's your discussion
• 59:42
  question for us? Yeah, I mean, you keyed it up
• 59:45
  perfectly. A lot of this thought was
• 59:46
  inspired by the reaction to the Muppet Twitter Awards, which I
• 59:52
  can't remember who won some of those, but no idea.
• 59:59
  But, which was a very positive thing, like I had such a lovely
• 1:00:02
  time that night, yes. There was a very fun evening
• 1:00:07
  that led to some general unpleasantness amongst Muppet
• 1:00:12
  Twitter, which is not unheard of.
• 1:00:15
  There are from time to time there are waves of negativity
• 1:00:20
  that encroach on this space that generally, you know, we all love
• 1:00:23
  and want to keep a positive space.
• 1:00:26
  And so I I just sort of wanted to throw it out there to see
• 1:00:30
  sort of how that hits all of you when you see those things
• 1:00:34
  happening. And because you know your hosts
• 1:00:37
  of podcasts and part of a larger, you have a certain
• 1:00:43
  amount of responsibility being a representative of a piece of the
• 1:00:46
  Muppet fandom, whether or not you, how much you carry that or
• 1:00:50
  how much you choose to use that is obviously up to you.
• 1:00:53
  You can engage or not engage. That is your choice.
• 1:00:55
  But I'm curious sort of when you see that stuff happening, one,
• 1:01:00
  how do you choose to get involved or not get involved?
• 1:01:04
  And two, how do you work to try and prevent it from happening in
• 1:01:08
  the 1st place? Because I, I, I kind of see
• 1:01:11
  myself in commitment as a place for, you know, we try to be as
• 1:01:15
  positive as possible or at least say this is our opinion.
• 1:01:18
  But especially on social media, I try to present us as like,
• 1:01:21
  hey, we're the fun uncles trying to set a good example of how you
• 1:01:24
  should maybe behave on the Internet.
• 1:01:26
  Because, you know, a lot of us are, you know, not old but older
• 1:01:31
  compared to a lot of the people in the fandom who are maybe, you
• 1:01:34
  know, in their teens still who are whether they know it or not,
• 1:01:38
  seeing examples of our behavior on social media and reacting in
• 1:01:44
  kind. So, yeah, that's a very long
• 1:01:46
  winded question, but I'm just sort of curious you're all
• 1:01:48
  thoughts on that kind of thing? So I think when it comes to the
• 1:01:51
  younger people, like the younger fans, we are all JD, granted,
• 1:01:58
  like you're a bot 14, but the rest of us, we're all we're all
• 1:02:02
  older than you, but even yourself.
• 1:02:05
  Like, we all remember a time where social media wasn't at our
• 1:02:07
  fingertips. Like you know, and we all grew
• 1:02:09
  up like I think I got my first, I think it was Myspace when I
• 1:02:12
  was about 1516, right? So I had, I got to grow up
• 1:02:16
  without a lot of this sort of stuff being right there.
• 1:02:20
  All these younger kids have had this at their fingertips their
• 1:02:23
  entire life. Social media is just a part of
• 1:02:26
  their lived experience and their entire life.
• 1:02:29
  They are used to living their life out loud.
• 1:02:31
  They are used to expressing every opinion, as you know.
• 1:02:36
  I think there's a Bo Burnham song in Inside where he's like
• 1:02:39
  anything and everything all of the time.
• 1:02:41
  Like, tell us every thought you think and.
• 1:02:43
  I was about to call you. I was about to say to you, OK,
• 1:02:46
  Bo Burnham, All right. That's exactly what it is.
• 1:02:50
  And it's so these people just think they're entitled to give
• 1:02:54
  every single opinion that they have and they haven't got the
• 1:02:57
  concept of, you know, maybe if you haven't got something nice
• 1:03:01
  to say, don't say anything at all.
• 1:03:03
  Which is very much how I live my life on social media.
• 1:03:06
  I have my own negative opinions about a lot of the stuff I see
• 1:03:09
  in the fandom community about what some of the fans do or say
• 1:03:12
  or whatever it might be. But.
• 1:03:14
  I. I'm 30, like, you know, nearly
• 1:03:18
  35 years old. I I don't need to get myself
• 1:03:21
  involved in that drama. So I sort of step back.
• 1:03:24
  From it, I really feel the need to jump in here for a moment and
• 1:03:28
  say, I understand, Jared, what you're saying about how younger
• 1:03:33
  people have a different relationship to social media and
• 1:03:35
  that has affected some of the negativity in the space it young
• 1:03:39
  people have not been the prime movers.
• 1:03:41
  Young people have been trying to figure out how to deal with
• 1:03:44
  negativity in the space and not handling it maturely, but are
• 1:03:49
  much more forgivable in their not handling it maturity.
• 1:03:52
  When the negativity in the space is not just negativity, it's
• 1:03:56
  it's it's often been something much worse lately.
• 1:04:00
  Yes, it's hard to know exactly how to put it into words, but
• 1:04:02
  it's often been something much worse.
• 1:04:04
  Right, And that said, I have made it known to Joe and Ryan
• 1:04:10
  and Becca running the the Discord.
• 1:04:13
  If I need to step in and be the bad guy, I'll step in and be the
• 1:04:16
  bad guy. If you need someone to be pulled
• 1:04:18
  into line, I'm happy to do it because at the end of the day, I
• 1:04:21
  don't care if they like me or not like it, Doesn't it?
• 1:04:23
  It doesn't keep me up at night. So unless I really need to get
• 1:04:27
  involved, in which case, but I mean I could count on one hand
• 1:04:30
  the amount of time is about to do that in 10.
• 1:04:32
  Years well, but I think there is something important there to
• 1:04:34
  remember that like like I don't want to be too much like kids
• 1:04:38
  these days or anything like that.
• 1:04:39
  But I'm not saying, but I think there is.
• 1:04:43
  I think it is when you are older or you have a large following or
• 1:04:46
  something, there is a responsibility there that some
• 1:04:49
  people like, not even saying anybody like like specifically
• 1:04:53
  right now. But like, when you have that
• 1:04:54
  level, there is a certain responsibility.
• 1:04:57
  Uncle Ben taught us to great power that you have to carry.
• 1:05:01
  And when you see that, like, the majority of people who are
• 1:05:04
  following you are younger and maybe are whipped into a frenzy,
• 1:05:08
  be it good or bad, sometimes I think it can be an abuse of
• 1:05:14
  power sometimes to sort of pit those groups of people against
• 1:05:19
  each other by saying that, like, you're either with me or you're
• 1:05:21
  against me. And it's a weird thing to see in
• 1:05:26
  a place where we're talking about fleece rags on hands.
• 1:05:31
  And it's just I I think, you know, stepping into spaces I
• 1:05:35
  think is a great thing. I have DM D plenty of people on
• 1:05:38
  Twitter being like, hey, I don't think that's the vibe you want
• 1:05:42
  to keep going right now. Maybe consider deleting what
• 1:05:46
  you've posted, because there's a great quote from the the book
• 1:05:51
  Bear Town that I always try to remember when I'm trying to
• 1:05:53
  think about the commitment fandom or the larger Muppet
• 1:05:55
  fandom, which is culture, is as much about what we encourage as
• 1:05:59
  what we permit. So it's not only, you know, it's
• 1:06:03
  really easy to say, like, well, I didn't tell my fans to do that
• 1:06:05
  or I didn't say this negative thing.
• 1:06:08
  But if you're allowing it to happen in your Discord, or
• 1:06:11
  you're allowing it to happen in your mentions, and you're not
• 1:06:13
  trying to shut that stuff down, you're still making it happen in
• 1:06:17
  a way. And that's why I think that your
• 1:06:22
  podcast permitment is just dead on.
• 1:06:26
  Sorry, I apologize again. It's 11:15 PM.
• 1:06:29
  But yes, you you are. That was a ridiculously silly
• 1:06:33
  response, to precisely the point that I often at Tough Pigs, have
• 1:06:40
  felt yucky about the fact that we're not doing more.
• 1:06:44
  And a lot of times it seems like we do get caught up in just
• 1:06:46
  trying to preserve peace for ourselves and make sure that the
• 1:06:51
  brand stays intact and make sure well, we're not the ones causing
• 1:06:54
  the drama and stirring the pot. But then we kind of just often,
• 1:06:59
  where it doesn't directly affect us, sit back and let it happen.
• 1:07:02
  And the only possible justification for that is it
• 1:07:06
  could seem really freaking patronizing for us to be like,
• 1:07:09
  well, you know, we're tough pigs, we're in charge in this
• 1:07:11
  fan community, and so we're going to tell you what
• 1:07:13
  conversation you can, in hand have.
• 1:07:16
  So, so if I can interject, right I if if I like I said like if I
• 1:07:22
  need feel like I need to jump in, I will.
• 1:07:25
  It's only happened a very few amount of times, but I think
• 1:07:28
  that's because I've got someone like Joe, and especially in the
• 1:07:33
  Discord, Becca, who can jump in and have these conversations in
• 1:07:38
  a much, probably nicer way than I would have it because I very
• 1:07:42
  much live my life, especially, you know, with how my life's
• 1:07:44
  been the last 12 months. As I said at the start of the
• 1:07:48
  thing, I had a rubbish 2023. I haven't got time to deal with
• 1:07:51
  this crap. I haven't got the patience to
• 1:07:53
  deal with a lot of stuff at the moment.
• 1:07:55
  So I'm probably stepping back because honestly, and you know
• 1:08:00
  it's with no pride I say this, I'm probably going to make it
• 1:08:03
  worse. I'm probably going to say the
• 1:08:04
  wrong thing in the heat of the moment and get someone else
• 1:08:07
  angry or kick up a whole other thing.
• 1:08:09
  So I just step back and only get involved when and if I have to.
• 1:08:14
  And we're we're very fortunate to have you know Becca being
• 1:08:19
  able to de escalate and certainly Katie Lynn Miller
• 1:08:21
  being able to de escalate in in the discord.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah, I also am very because I'm can be quite snarky online and
• 1:08:29
  God knows I made a lot of jokes about, you know, about
• 1:08:32
  commitment, winning all the awards and stuff.
• 1:08:34
  But I'm very, I I'm very careful to make sure that that's coming
• 1:08:38
  across in a fun, joking, jovial manner.
• 1:08:42
  So I sort of do my best to be a guest, that sort of role model.
• 1:08:47
  But with the other stuff, I'm just like, Nah, I haven't.
• 1:08:50
  I haven't got the time to do with your crap.
• 1:08:52
  I've got other things going on in my life.
• 1:08:54
  Have you have your arguments? I'm not.
• 1:08:55
  I'm just not going to pay attention to it.
• 1:08:57
  And like I said, I don't say it with pride.
• 1:08:59
  That's probably not a good way to live my life, and that's
• 1:09:00
  probably not what I should be doing as a figurehead in this
• 1:09:02
  community. But that's where I just am at
• 1:09:05
  this point in my life. Yeah, to me it brings up
• 1:09:09
  questions of So I the words negativity and drama and
• 1:09:18
  disrespect. We all have very different
• 1:09:21
  definitions in our heads of what those words mean.
• 1:09:25
  So when we're saying like, oh, we want this to be a positive
• 1:09:30
  place or no drama allowed here or be respectful, we have to
• 1:09:35
  start talking about what exactly that means.
• 1:09:38
  Because I mean and this has been and will continue to be you know
• 1:09:43
  an ongoing conversation in the tough bigs discord about like
• 1:09:47
  when do we step in and what where exactly is the line
• 1:09:52
  Because like not all drama is created equal.
• 1:09:55
  Like you know 22 Twitter users of the same age arguing about
• 1:10:03
  you know which character they like more is is that could get
• 1:10:08
  called drama. But then if you're going to put
• 1:10:11
  the same label on something that has a vastly different power
• 1:10:17
  dynamic between the different players and and.
• 1:10:25
  Yeah, thank you, because I've been struggling to figure out
• 1:10:29
  how to put that into words as well.
• 1:10:33
  OK. Can I, can I jump in for just
• 1:10:35
  one SEC? Yes, just because I feel like
• 1:10:39
  we're not talking about specifics, all right?
• 1:10:40
  Obviously, there have been specific things that have
• 1:10:42
  happened as far as I'm concerned.
• 1:10:44
  I don't run under Elon Musk. I don't run Twitter.
• 1:10:48
  So whatever happens on Twitter, two people start having
• 1:10:50
  arguments with people on Twitter doesn't involve me.
• 1:10:53
  Yes, the Discord is different. Yes, I am one of the editors of
• 1:10:56
  tough pigs. I am, you know, one of the
• 1:10:58
  admins of that Discord. Yeah, it's probably different.
• 1:11:00
  There are probably, you know, I need to pay more attention to
• 1:11:03
  what's happening there. But in the same way, where if
• 1:11:06
  you don't have anything nice and say, don't say anything at all.
• 1:11:09
  If it's not, doesn't affect me. If it doesn't, not that doesn't
• 1:11:12
  affect me. If it's not directly related to
• 1:11:14
  me, if I have nothing to do with anything that is going on, why
• 1:11:18
  get involved? That's how I live my life.
• 1:11:20
  Well, but it's, and that may be fine for you as an individual,
• 1:11:26
  but then there are questions about chop pigs as a whole, and
• 1:11:29
  there are questions about what does it say?
• 1:11:30
  Associate ourselves with. Yes, absolutely.
• 1:11:33
  And that and that's and that that that is a running
• 1:11:35
  conversation in our private discord and that is a
• 1:11:38
  conversation that myself, Joe and Ryan have.
• 1:11:41
  But that's also something that I don't particularly want to get
• 1:11:43
  into here, especially that those two here to sort of, you know,
• 1:11:45
  give their opinions and stuff like that.
• 1:11:47
  So yes, I I am gonna have to get cancelled by the end of this and
• 1:11:53
  that's fine. I'll just hang out with Boobie's
• 1:11:54
  uncle and he's all tweets. No, I think it's good generative
• 1:11:58
  conversation because the answer is it's complicated.
• 1:12:03
  The answer is there is. No hard and fast lines and yeah.
• 1:12:06
  This is gonna have to keep Matthew's way of getting me gone
• 1:12:10
  because I kept having to go in for winning.
• 1:12:13
  Yeah, this was really my my secret plan was to be like what
• 1:12:15
  can I get Jared to say? But no, like honestly it is, it
• 1:12:19
  is interesting being like the different sort of tiers of this
• 1:12:22
  because obviously commitments at a different level than tough
• 1:12:24
  pigs in these conversations. And so it's even just
• 1:12:28
  interesting to hear you're all answers compared to like you
• 1:12:30
  know, we have less problem burning bridges sometimes when
• 1:12:35
  we're like two people with a podcast, it's only a few years
• 1:12:38
  old versus like a 20 year old website.
• 1:12:39
  Like there's a different responsibilities there and
• 1:12:42
  different powers along with that.
• 1:12:43
  But I think this, like, you know, if you don't have anything
• 1:12:46
  nice to say, I think is, you know, a good obviously thing for
• 1:12:50
  life. On that note though, I when I'm
• 1:12:53
  on my personal Twitter and even commitments Twitter, I try to
• 1:12:56
  live by the words of Craig Ferguson.
• 1:12:58
  Who said, does this need to be said?
• 1:13:01
  Does this need to be said by me? And does this need to be said by
• 1:13:04
  me right now? And I think if you ask yourself
• 1:13:08
  those three questions before you tweet anything, most of the time
• 1:13:11
  the answer is no, just to the first one.
• 1:13:13
  But especially if you're trying to dive into something like
• 1:13:16
  Jared said, that doesn't directly affect you.
• 1:13:18
  It's it's going to be pretty quickly When you decide like,
• 1:13:21
  does this need, do I need to be in this conversation?
• 1:13:24
  The answer is almost always going to be no.
• 1:13:28
  But there are times when somebody needs to say something.
• 1:13:32
  And even if it doesn't need to be one of us specifically
• 1:13:35
  individually, it's still important that someone who is in
• 1:13:40
  some halfway prominent place in the fan community helps to
• 1:13:44
  establish what is normal and what is not normal.
• 1:13:46
  What is more acceptable or less acceptable in the fan community
• 1:13:49
  just for the sake of safety and well-being?
• 1:13:51
  I think there's so I think there's different approaches to
• 1:13:54
  this that I myself have taken and I'm again not going to name
• 1:13:56
  specifics. There have been people I have DM
• 1:13:58
  Ed on Twitter and called them out directly to their face, for
• 1:14:01
  all you know, lack of a better metaphor there.
• 1:14:04
  But like, I've been like, this is bad, what you are doing is a
• 1:14:07
  bad thing. And I think that you have not
• 1:14:10
  done things like this before and I think this is maybe a mistake.
• 1:14:13
  You don't realize what you did, so maybe there's time for
• 1:14:15
  correction. There are other people who I
• 1:14:17
  feel like there is a clear pattern have been called out for
• 1:14:20
  things and repeatedly continue to do the bad things.
• 1:14:25
  I think that's the ones where you're like, OK, I I've tried.
• 1:14:30
  I've maybe done things to maybe try and help that person.
• 1:14:34
  At a certain point, the best thing I can do is maybe ignore
• 1:14:37
  that person and not engage with them, Not like hang out with
• 1:14:42
  them in any way online. And I think, like, there is
• 1:14:44
  definitely times where stepping in is the right call, especially
• 1:14:47
  if it's like, I don't know how many of us have ever met each
• 1:14:50
  other in real life in this group of people right here.
• 1:14:53
  But like a lot of us have never, will never whatever, meet each
• 1:14:58
  other in physical space. So the definition of friends,
• 1:15:01
  colleagues, acquaintances is murky already.
• 1:15:04
  And so I, you know, I try to imagine like a comment section
• 1:15:08
  or whatever as if it's my living room.
• 1:15:11
  You know, if I upload a YouTube video and the comment section
• 1:15:14
  there is my living room, if someone is saying something
• 1:15:16
  terrible in my living room, I'm going to ask them to leave.
• 1:15:20
  And I think there's times where Muppet fandom feels like it's a
• 1:15:23
  living room, and other times it feels like the world.
• 1:15:27
  And I think when we're in those spaces, whether it's a discord
• 1:15:29
  or it's a Twitter conversation right at that, where it feels
• 1:15:31
  more like, Oh yeah, we're all hanging out right now having
• 1:15:33
  this thing, and someone just walked in and pooped in the
• 1:15:37
  punch bowl. We're going to ask that person
• 1:15:39
  to leave. And again, I think it's
• 1:15:42
  complicated. Who asks that person to leave or
• 1:15:46
  how? You know, respectfully.
• 1:15:48
  Maybe that conversation happens offline, but I think it is
• 1:15:51
  important that that conversation happens at times.
• 1:15:55
  It feels sometimes silly to say that, like, this is a a very
• 1:15:59
  nice fandom. But like on the large part it is
• 1:16:02
  and it is a, you know, we largely try to be about kindness
• 1:16:05
  and making people happy. And so when I see the fandom
• 1:16:09
  actively working to make people not happy, sometimes I'm like
• 1:16:14
  what? What are you doing here?
• 1:16:15
  Where? Where did this?
• 1:16:17
  When did this confusion happen? The fan community, I I agree
• 1:16:21
  with you is like I I just kind of thank my lucky stars every
• 1:16:25
  day. I didn't find myself in the
• 1:16:26
  middle of like the Star Wars fan community or anything like that.
• 1:16:28
  Not that there's anything wrong with being a Star Wars fan.
• 1:16:31
  As a lifelong Star Wars fan, I have tapped out from talking
• 1:16:34
  about Star Wars on the Internet for years for this very reason.
• 1:16:36
  Yeah. Like, which generally speaking,
• 1:16:39
  you don't have to do with Muppets.
• 1:16:41
  Like there, there's nothing that's going to get you the
• 1:16:45
  responses you get for saying any opinion about The Last Jedi in
• 1:16:49
  Muppet spaces, to the best of my knowledge.
• 1:16:51
  Because by and large, Muppet fandom is just it's a different
• 1:16:54
  kind of community. And it's usually one where where
• 1:16:57
  for the most part, it seems like people are a little nicer.
• 1:16:59
  But it absolutely has, at times, sort of a bloodthirsty quality
• 1:17:04
  to it. And that, again, that's not a
• 1:17:06
  thing that happens all the time, But lately it feels like it.
• 1:17:12
  It feels like some amount of disregard for the feelings and
• 1:17:15
  humanities of others is becoming more and more of a recognizable
• 1:17:19
  feature of the community, and that's making me less and less
• 1:17:24
  happy with it. So I haven't said anything in
• 1:17:27
  this whole conversation and that's because I feel almost
• 1:17:31
  entirely disconnected from all of this like.
• 1:17:34
  So my recommendation to you, JD is just do that.
• 1:17:38
  Like don't, don't engage. Because none.
• 1:17:41
  It it's not your job, you know and sorry.
• 1:17:47
  Go. Ahead all of my not all.
• 1:17:50
  Most of my social media posts are about like look at this
• 1:17:54
  interesting VHS cover I found. You know, so like, I don't mean
• 1:17:59
  to sit here and be like, oh, I'm doing it right.
• 1:18:01
  Everybody else is doing it wrong.
• 1:18:02
  I just don't even. I started on the Tough Pigs
• 1:18:06
  forum when I was 18 years old, and I was one of the kids, you
• 1:18:09
  know, and Danny and Scott and Martha Cathy.
• 1:18:14
  Those guys were the adults and I was a child.
• 1:18:17
  And in my mind, I'm still a child and those guys are adults
• 1:18:21
  and me and Ryan are children. And I have a podcast with my
• 1:18:25
  friend where we watch the Muppet movies 2 minutes at a time, and
• 1:18:27
  sometimes our other friends come on it and sometimes Dave Gold
• 1:18:30
  comes on it or Michael Frith or something.
• 1:18:33
  And all of this happens in a bubble.
• 1:18:37
  And I don't know how people like the show and I don't think about
• 1:18:40
  it. And that is, in my opinion, the
• 1:18:45
  best way to deal with the Muppet fan community.
• 1:18:48
  Talk to your friends and don't worry about everyone else.
• 1:18:51
  I mean, I appreciate what you're saying, but there's a little bit
• 1:18:57
  of poison that's spread everywhere in this community
• 1:18:59
  right now. Not not to every single person,
• 1:19:01
  but part of what comes with being in a fan community is a
• 1:19:05
  group of people have decided to, however serious or unserious
• 1:19:11
  they may be, treat a franchise that is inherently, deeply
• 1:19:18
  unimportant, as though it is an important thing, and a lot of
• 1:19:22
  times the tough pigs, we do it somewhat cheekily, tongue in
• 1:19:25
  cheek. Now we would say ironically.
• 1:19:28
  I don't think that's what the word ironic meant before, but
• 1:19:31
  that's what it means now. And I like that element.
• 1:19:34
  But there's a lot to be said for the sincerity, for the beauty of
• 1:19:37
  people just having sincere passions without feeling the
• 1:19:40
  need to be ironic about it. But what comes with that is
• 1:19:44
  there are going to be a lot of moments when when people forget,
• 1:19:48
  when people forget that what happens with human beings is so
• 1:19:52
  much more important than what happens to a bunch of a bunch of
• 1:19:57
  puppets. It's always more important.
• 1:20:01
  I get frustrated when I don't see that mentality everywhere,
• 1:20:04
  and I can't expect to. But I I I hope we can figure out
• 1:20:08
  how to. Centralized the experiences of
• 1:20:11
  people and chill out a little bit more And I also think to be
• 1:20:16
  very direct about something that we're not usually direct about.
• 1:20:19
  I'll be I'll be finished with this in a moment.
• 1:20:20
  But I do think it's worth making this key point.
• 1:20:23
  We haven't totally worked out. What are the to to speak to
• 1:20:27
  Beth's point What are the characteristics of kindness in a
• 1:20:29
  community like this. What are the characteristics of
• 1:20:32
  positivity versus negativity and negativity in a community like
• 1:20:35
  this? Because for me it seems that we
• 1:20:39
  are in a very neuro divergent fan community that doesn't know
• 1:20:44
  how to talk about that, that isn't especially well educated
• 1:20:48
  about that. And that is something that for a
• 1:20:51
  very long time at big institutions like tough pigs, we
• 1:20:55
  kind of just ignored. And now it's probably time for
• 1:20:59
  everyone to get a a little bit more thoughtful about it and
• 1:21:02
  figure out how to navigate possibly the most controversial
• 1:21:08
  discourse I can think of. I've been trying to write my
• 1:21:11
  explainer about this for tough pigs for many months, and I do
• 1:21:14
  find myself wishing I was writing about The Last Jedi,
• 1:21:17
  because that would somehow probably arouse less anger when
• 1:21:21
  this is something that's very sensitive, and for good reason,
• 1:21:26
  it's there's just not a lot of agreement on the subject, and
• 1:21:29
  understandably so. But now the way in which we show
• 1:21:34
  respect for one another and the way in which we care about one
• 1:21:36
  another is going to be dependent, dependent on being
• 1:21:40
  thoughtful about this stuff and being educated to the extent to
• 1:21:43
  which we can Seems like a new chapter in the Muppet fan
• 1:21:46
  community, even though this was always there.
• 1:21:48
  And now I think that we kind of have to figure out how the heck
• 1:21:51
  we're going to deal with it. I'm hopeful that I can help with
• 1:21:55
  that. In what ways I can.
• 1:21:57
  Did I completely kill the conversation?
• 1:22:00
  No, I did it perfectly. That was the perfect place to
• 1:22:02
  end. Yep.
• 1:22:04
  Perfect. Yeah.
• 1:22:08
  I I just think that's, I think that's the natural endpoint,
• 1:22:10
  yeah. OK, cool, then great, We're
• 1:22:11
  done. A panelist's friends, We've
• 1:22:14
  reached the end of another edition of the Great Muppet
• 1:22:16
  Fandom panel. That means it's time for me to
• 1:22:17
  ask the panelists where we can find them on the Internet.
• 1:22:20
  Jared, where can people find you on the Internet?
• 1:22:22
  Just tough pigs. That's pretty much it.
• 1:22:24
  I mean, I'm on Twitter, but I'm not going to lie, I'm really not
• 1:22:29
  on Twitter much anymore. Just find me on tough picks,
• 1:22:33
  come hang out with me and read conversations I have with myself
• 1:22:36
  about Oscar the Grouch being a Time Lord.
• 1:22:39
  That was a good one. I like that.
• 1:22:41
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 1:22:41
  Of course I did. But yeah.
• 1:22:43
  Hey Anthony, where can people find you on the Internet?
• 1:22:46
  Well, I'm on moving right along as we discussed a Tough Picks
• 1:22:50
  podcast and I was for a long time, not on any public social
• 1:22:54
  media at all. In the past six months or so,
• 1:22:57
  I've been on Blue Sky at Derwood Clapper.
• 1:23:01
  I love it so much. Named.
• 1:23:05
  Named after a a non existent Muppet from a mobile game that
• 1:23:09
  doesn't exist anymore. A character who never existed in
• 1:23:12
  puppet form and doesn't even exist in digital form anymore.
• 1:23:15
  And so at Derwood Clapper, where you can find me picking the
• 1:23:19
  sensational character find of every year since 1924.
• 1:23:23
  And I'm up to 1961. So check that out if you want to
• 1:23:28
  I guess. Anthony, I'm so glad I finally
• 1:23:32
  got to have you on this. Oh man, we.
• 1:23:37
  It feels like we've we've talked so little voice to voice and yet
• 1:23:40
  I'm so happy every time. Sure.
• 1:23:43
  Me too. Me too.
• 1:23:44
  Oh gosh, remember that time we did a pilot that, for a thing
• 1:23:47
  that had thus far, has not gone, but I really enjoyed.
• 1:23:50
  Yeah, I know. I enjoyed it too.
• 1:23:51
  Maybe someday I'll make that into a show.
• 1:23:53
  Maybe someday I won't. Yeah, I don't know how many
• 1:23:55
  people know that Anthony and I recorded a podcast as Co hosts
• 1:23:59
  and I just never finished it. But maybe someday.
• 1:24:01
  Maybe someday. You can cut that out.
• 1:24:04
  I just It was fun. No, it's.
• 1:24:06
  Hey, this mention of it might be the only fruit of our efforts.
• 1:24:12
  Just people knowing that we did a thing sometimes is the only
• 1:24:15
  satisfaction that one gets in an era of media when stuff gets
• 1:24:18
  deleted from streaming platforms.
• 1:24:21
  Beth where can people find you on the Internet?
• 1:24:23
  Mostly Fraggle Talk. It's it's a separate podcast
• 1:24:28
  channel from the tough pigs one, so you got to go over there and
• 1:24:31
  subscribe. But that is most of the content
• 1:24:34
  I'm putting out. But also still occasionally
• 1:24:36
  writing things for Tough pigs. And if you want to follow me on
• 1:24:40
  social media where I am occasionally exist, I am at Beth
• 1:24:46
  Anna Cook. That is Anna with two NS.
• 1:24:50
  And Matthew, the non tough pig, I've singled you out here, but I
• 1:24:56
  do hope that you felt very, very welcome here because my gosh, I
• 1:25:00
  was so glad to finally have you on this show.
• 1:25:02
  Oh. Well, thank you for having me.
• 1:25:06
  You know, 3/4 of you made me feel very welcome.
• 1:25:10
  Put. On your Anthony way to exclude
• 1:25:13
  him. Classic, Classic me, yeah.
• 1:25:17
  No, but I actually did want to shout out Jared here because I
• 1:25:21
  was going to recommend that if people want to go listen to a
• 1:25:23
  commitment episodes, get a feel for what the show is like, they
• 1:25:27
  should go check out episode 92, which was from, you know, almost
• 1:25:33
  a year ago and we were only in 1983, a year ago.
• 1:25:36
  Jeez, but we were talking about Don't Eat the Pictures with
• 1:25:40
  Jared as our very special guest on that episode.
• 1:25:45
  That was a great. Time.
• 1:25:46
  Truly one of my favorite episodes of a podcast.
• 1:25:50
  Yeah, I'm being genuine because you had that that incredible
• 1:25:52
  talk at the beginning about Jared's article.
• 1:25:54
  Am IA Muppet fan first, in case it isn't clear from everything
• 1:25:58
  that I just talked about. Stuff that I think about a lot.
• 1:26:02
  I forgot we even had that discussion.
• 1:26:03
  That was just like one of those, like sometimes you have a good
• 1:26:06
  discussion, you forget it was on a podcast.
• 1:26:08
  But yes, that was a very good thing that we did record for the
• 1:26:11
  Internet. So I would go check that out.
• 1:26:13
  You can go check out everything commitment at commitment.com.
• 1:26:17
  That'll give you a links to, you know, the episodes, the merch,
• 1:26:21
  the morpet gallery, everything. You need to enjoy commitment.
• 1:26:25
  If you want to follow us on the Internet, it's at Commitment Pod
• 1:26:29
  on everywhere, and I am at Matthew Gatos everywhere.
• 1:26:34
  You and Sam should be very happy with yourselves because you do
• 1:26:37
  great work, incredible Co hosts together, great dynamic.
• 1:26:40
  What a show you've really got. The kind of podcast that is
• 1:26:46
  worthy of going on for as long as it takes to cover every
• 1:26:50
  single Muppet thing. Well, thank you so much.
• 1:26:53
  And you know, we're as long as we keep stealing all those
• 1:26:56
  muppies away from tough pigs, we'll keep doing it.
• 1:27:00
  You definitely deserved some of them.
• 1:27:02
  You know what? That's the nicest thing you've
• 1:27:04
  ever said to me, Jared. I'll take it.
• 1:27:06
  And now a moment of spontaneous applause for our panel of Muppet
• 1:27:09
  Experts. Thank you.
• 1:27:11
  If you enjoyed this program, we hope you'll consider supporting
• 1:27:13
  us on Patreon. Thank you to those of you who
• 1:27:14
  do. So now.
• 1:27:15
  This Tough Pigs Muppet Fan podcast was executive produced
• 1:27:18
  by the Tough Pigs Muppet Fan Podcast Executive Producer
• 1:27:20
  Johannes. Thanks to Kenny Durkin for our
• 1:27:22
  artwork. And thanks to Frank Oz because
• 1:27:24
  it's always a good time to thank Frank for toughpigs.com.
• 1:27:27
  This is JD Hansel reminding you, as I always do, of Jim Henson's
• 1:27:29
  motto, You'll never get out of the Cube.
• 1:27:31
  Goodbye. So I start by boiling the water,
• 1:27:41
  usually a little bit of salt. You don't want too much salt in
• 1:27:43
  there, obviously. And then, you know, Chuck the
• 1:27:44
  pasta in. Then look, it's usually a
• 1:27:46
  different fry pan. I'll have to start cooking up
• 1:27:48
  the mince and stuff like that. The secret is sriracha.
• 1:27:51
  You want a good spaghetti sauce. Sriracha is the big deal.
• 1:27:54
  Little bit of garlic, little bit of not too much garlic.
• 1:27:57
  So I'm just saying that Dexter should be the number one Muppet
• 1:28:00
  on Sesame Street going forward from now on.
• 1:28:02
  Look, he's got everything. He's tall, he can juggle, he's
• 1:28:06
  extremely handsome. What does Elmo have?
• 1:28:09
  Nothing. He's short.
• 1:28:11
  I've never seen him juggle. Not even once in Big Bird.
• 1:28:15
  You know, not the handsomest bird I've ever seen.
• 1:28:18
  And I'm pretty sure he definitely can't juggle.
• 1:28:21
  So what I'm really saying is that Dexter should be the new
• 1:28:24
  favorite Muppet of every small child growing up learning their
• 1:28:29
  ABC's, their 12 threes, and most importantly, how to juggle the
• 1:28:34
  most important skill a kid can learn.
• 1:28:36
  So here's the thing about the song.
• 1:28:37
  New Day's Day from Flight of the Butterflies, from the From Back
• 1:28:40
  to the Rock in the verses where they sing So Good, So Good, So
• 1:28:45
  Good. You cannot convince me that
• 1:28:47
  that's not a nod to Sweet Caroline.
• 1:28:50
  And more importantly, it is a nod to the part of Sweet
• 1:28:52
  Caroline that's not actually in the original song.
• 1:28:56
  It's become part of the experience of the song.
• 1:28:59
  It's generative. It's what happens when something
• 1:29:02
  is so popular and uplifting, the people can't help but add to it.
• 1:29:06
  And that is exactly what Back To the Rock is.
• 1:29:09
  See. See what you can do on the TV.
• 1:29:13
  Well, it's me. Me watching you.
• 1:29:15
  You looking at me. Everybody watching everywhere.
• 1:29:18
  Everybody. You're on the air.
• 1:29:21
  Well, I'm living in the future. Forget about today.
• 1:29:25
  Making dreams about fusion in a modern way.
• 1:29:28
  Bits and streams and holograms will capture me just as I am.
• 1:29:32
  I'm trapped, but I like it. Trapped.
• 1:29:35
  I'm not watching it now. Trapped in tomorrow.
• 1:29:38
  Trapped. I can't let it go.
• 1:29:40
  Every second I'm alive, I take a MB of life.
• 1:29:44
  I'm trapped. Searching for a source of
• 1:29:47
  endless energy. Can I push a button that will
• 1:29:50
  set me free? Set me free?
• 1:29:53
  Set us free. I'm trapped.