Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Finding Your Authentic Self

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Finding Your Authentic Self · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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Hello everyone and welcome to a special another episode.
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All my episodes are special.
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So welcome to another episode of chatting with the experts TV show
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where I speak with women from Africa and the Caribbean and in the diaspora.
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These women are professionals and successful business women, and our mission
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is to inspire women globally, to educate women, and to empower women globally.
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I sometimes have men as guests on the show, but most of the
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time, I have these awesome women.
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So today, our topic is, very interesting, whose shoes are you wearing?
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Uncovering the woman you really want to be.
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And with me to do this would be Julian Kiganda, which is Kiganda.
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Uganda with a K.
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I'll tell you a bit about her.
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She's a transformational brand strategist.
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She's an award winning designer, author, and speaker who specializes in building
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transformational brands for purpose driven clients, ranging from Fortune
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500 corporations to multi-million dollar nonprofits and small businesses.
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Some of her clients have included the Steve Harvey World Group,
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the National Urban League, and, oh my gosh, the African Union.
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She's been featured on the Washington Post, NPR, oh my god, I could say
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so much about her, but why don't I ask her to just join us and then we
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can talk more about all the places and the lives that she's touched.
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And with that, let's welcome Julian Kiganda to the show.
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It is a pleasure to be with you.
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Thank you so much for having me, Paula.
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Oh my gosh.
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I mean, when I read your bio, I was like, Oh, she's being rubbing
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shoulders with the rich and famous.
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I've been fortunate to work with some amazing people
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over the course of my career.
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Oh my gosh.
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I'm sure you have.
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And you know, the thing is as you work with them, you are learning from them
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and they are learning from you too.
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Isn't that an amazing thing?
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And that's, I think that's why I really focus on working with purpose
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driven clients because you know, when you're walking in your purpose,
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it's like almost everything you do really needs to be focused on that.
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So I'm always learning, always learning.
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I know.
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My mantra is I learn something new every day and it could be from a baby and
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it could be from a 67 year old person.
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We all are young.
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So, true.
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Yeah, right.
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So, whose shoes are you wearing?
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Uncovering the woman you want to be.
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That's a book.
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The title of a book that you co authored with your sister, you said.
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It is, yeah.
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Tell me more.
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Well, let me show you as I tell you.
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So, this is the cover of our book.
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And I know that you mentioned that you really focus on interviewing women of
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the Caribbean, of Africa, the Diaspora.
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So, you know, from my last name, some people can tell
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I'm not American, so to speak.
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I was actually born in Uganda and this book, and you can see the
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cover, we're very proudly wearing African prints on the cover.
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My sister, Christina and I, we wrote this book.
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It's actually been 10 years already since we wrote that book, but we wrote
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the book because when we're looking at all of the self help professional
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development books out there on the market.
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We couldn't find anything that spoke to us both from a cultural
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and a Christian perspective.
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And I'm sure you, also coming from parents of African and Caribbean,
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you can relate to the fact that our experience is just different.
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It's very different.
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And I think the thing that we found interesting about the book when
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it came out was although we really wrote it from an African perspective,
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just about every culture was touched by this book and can relate to it.
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We had Asian women reaching out to us and saying, my gosh,
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like you're speaking my story.
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We had Latino women.
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I mean, you name it, Africa, the Caribbean, all over,
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and African American too.
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So, It really was very universal.
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Oh, wow.
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So that's on my bucket list.
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I need to get, when I say bucket list, really, I literally,
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I need to get this book.
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A lot of my guests have been authors and I take pride in buying their books and
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having and finding some time to read it.
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Do you have an audio copy of it?
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You know, we recorded it, we just haven't published it yet, but the
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print book is actually available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and
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most places where books are sold.
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But at some point, yes.
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You reminded us we do need to publish the audio version.
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All right, because I'll be, obviously I'll be one of the first
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ones to buy that because I love it.
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Ah, okay.
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Well, now it's on my list of things to do in the next few months.
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Yeah.
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So when you and I spoke, we mentioned that one thing you want to talk about is
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what happens one day when you wake up and realize the things that you thought you'd
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heal from in the past actually making that uncomfortable reappearance in your life.
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How do you deal with that?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know, these past, I would say particularly the past two and a half,
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three years have been quite the journey.
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When we wrote the book, Whose Shoes are you Wearing?
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That was 2010.
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So I was four years post divorce.
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And I actually wrote about my divorce in the book because again, even as I
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was going through my divorce, it was very hard for me to find resources
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to show me, okay, what have other people done to get through this?
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Like, how do people recover from this?
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Because I think, you know, unless you've been through it, you, you
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don't really understand that a divorce is, is like grieving a death.
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And so you go through all of the emotions and the processing of just
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everything and the end of something and hopefully the beginning of something
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better, you know, if you do the work.
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That was one of the reasons that I wrote about it in the book was because I hadn't
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really seen people who talked about it and what it was like, you know, when you
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get married, you don't get married to get divorced, you know, most people don't.
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So I think I had felt that, you know, okay, man I've
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been through the worst of it.
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Like the divorce was, Ooh, I never want to go through that again.
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And it was just, it's trauma, you know, for a lot of people it's trauma.
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And at the time.
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My daughter was nine months old, you know, when we're going through the divorce.
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So
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Woah.
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It was, oh, it was tough.
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It was tough in a lot of ways, but you know, for so many reasons.
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And I would say she was a major reason why I said, you know what?
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I can't afford to become bitter from this.
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I have to become better.
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So I made sure I did the work.
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I worked with coaches.
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I worked with counselors that I worked on myself.
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I mean, I really did the work and in the process of doing
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that work, you know, there were certain things that I understood.
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Okay.
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Well, this is why this happened the way it did.
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And I also had to take accountability because, you know, I truly understand
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now that even if other people have done you wrong, unless you take accountability
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for your own role in certain situations, because we allow certain things, you
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know, you can be the kindest person in the world, but I am learning more and
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more the importance of setting boundaries.
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And so many times we do not set those boundaries.
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And I think even culturally, you know, I recognize that that's not
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something we're really taught.
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So right.
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I was just thinking, oh, when you said that boundaries, I had to learn that too.
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It's not something we have taught.
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It's rude.
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I'm almost the same with boundaries.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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And unfortunately, I think it works to our detriment as we get older,
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you know, so it's something many of us have to learn as adults.
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And because you're not setting those boundaries, people are able to take
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advantage of you and do certain things and you know, whether or not you're
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aware of that, you know, once you start really going on this healing
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journey and you start doing the work to learn about yourself and even
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uncover, like, what is it in you that attracted this into your life?
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Or what is it that allowed this certain situation to
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actually manifest in your life?
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Like once you really start paying attention, then it's like, Oh, okay.
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I feel like that's when God is like, okay, we have something to work with here
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because until you take accountability and ownership over certain things, you're
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going to remain stuck and it's going to be like living on a hamster wheel.
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You are absolutely right about taking ownership of like, I
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also could have done better.
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Exactly.
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But I grew from having gone through this.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And I think I felt that after having gone through that, I was
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like, okay, I've done the work.
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I wrote the book.
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It helps so many people.
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You know, the interesting thing about the book was again, we wrote it from our
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perspective as African women growing up in America 'cause I was born in Uganda.
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My sister who I co authored a book with is actually born here, but it didn't matter.
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Like we were raised in an African household.
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So you've gone home, right?
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That was it.
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You know.
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You know the story.
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You know the story.
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Yes.
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I don't care what your friends out there are doing.
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Not in this house.
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My gosh, you know, I didn't appreciate that growing up for sure.
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But now in hindsight, I'm like, you know, there's so many things I appreciate
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about our parents actually, in some ways, forcing us to appreciate our culture.
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Yes.
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You know, I mean, now, exactly.
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You know, now we have Wakanda and Afrobeats, but we didn't have
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that back then, you know, you'd never wanted to admit you were
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from Africa back in those days.
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So it took work, you know, and so, you know, you do the work and things improve.
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And honestly, like, I just feel like when I went through my divorce, I felt like
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that was actually the beginning of me.
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I was no longer identifying myself by who I was married to, who I was connected
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to, who I was in a relationship with.
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And what I've come to also recognize is, you know, I don't
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know how to put this in a way that.
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I'm not even gonna be politically correct with this.
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So East African men, you know, I've found that many of them want women who are
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very, you know, demure and subservient and, you know, just, yes, honey.
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Yeah.
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You know, and I just, I had a really hard time with that
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because that's not me by nature.
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That does not be my nature.
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And I found that when I was in my marriage, I had to dim my light.
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I had to become less than who I was created to be in order to
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be acceptable in my marriage.
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So once I went through my divorce, that was an opportunity for me to really
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discover, like, who am I and what do I want and how am I going to redefine
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myself in this new chapter in my life?
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So that was, my gosh, such a time of transformation and
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growth for me in my life.
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But again, I had to be willing to do the work, you know.
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And part of doing the work, which so many of us are afraid of is
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actually feeling the pain, you know.
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Going to ask you that.
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Getting real, right?
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With yourself.
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Oof.
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Bad part.
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Bad part.
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In fact there's a chapter in the book called Keeping it real.
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It's actually the very first chapter.
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Keeping it real.
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Removing the weave, the lashes, and the heels.
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Because we put on these masks in our lives because, you know, again, we're
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afraid not just to be who we really are, but in allowing ourselves to be
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who we really are, like, what is it that we're going to really feel that we may
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be avoiding by putting on this mask?
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You know, and that was a big part of what I had to do in that time and
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space is I had to take off the mask and everything that, you know, in our
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community, people were shocked when they found that we were getting a
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divorce because we look like the perfect couple and, you know, all these things.
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But, you know, when I got real.
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I realized everything happens for a reason, but honestly, we probably
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never should have gotten married.
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We probably made better friends than we did husband and wife.
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But again, it was one of those things where culturally
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he fits all of the things.
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He checked off all the boxes, you know, that African parents are looking for.
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Right family.
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Yeah.
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Good job.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Making enough money.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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All the things, you know, and I think when I got a chance to keep it real,
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like that was actually when I was able to allow myself to feel the pain.
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You know, these days they have something called, I think it's a fairly new term to
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have something called spiritual bypassing.
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Hmm.
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Haven't heard of that one.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Let me add that to my, I said, I'd learn something new every day.
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This is the one for today.
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Spiritual bypassing.
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Spiritual bypassing.
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So basically that's when instead of actually going through something and
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feeling the pain and doing the Berkeley Hill from it, you just pray it away.
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You sing it away.
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It's all spiritual.
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And you know, it's just another form of avoiding dealing with the pain.
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And I knew instinctively, and this is where I'm grateful because I've
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always, I feel like... I grew up in a very prayerful family, and so
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I feel like I've always had a good relationship with my Creator, and so
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I instinctively knew, I divinely knew that if I did that, it wasn't called
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spiritual bypassing at the time, but basically just avoiding dealing with it
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and then ending up in the same place.
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I instinctively knew if I did that, that was then going to pass on to my daughter
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and that it's one of those things.
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It's kind of like, you know, if you have an infection and instead of
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actually going into the infection and cleaning it out and, you know, putting
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the hydrogen peroxide and putting the ointment on and, you know, but you
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got to go in the room to clean it.
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There's some people who don't even go into it.
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They just put a band-aid on it.
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And the infection gets worse, you know, so I instinctively knew that,
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that would not work in my favor.
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And so in, in that moment, I did the best that I could with what I knew.
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And I actually think I did really well because it was in that time
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that, I mean, my business just grew exponentially after that.
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And I think it was because I got really clear.
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Like I said, I took the time to really work on me and I got really clear about
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what I wanted as an individual without being connected to somebody else or,
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you know, looking at, you know, what did they want from me or what am I supposed
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to look like if I'm married to them?
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And is this going to be, is this going to make them look good?
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You know, that it was no longer about that.
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It was about, okay, what do I really want and how am I going to use these
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gifts that I've been given, you know?
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They say to who much is given much is expected.
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Yes.
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And you know the next few years after that my gosh it was such
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an amazing time in my life.
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So what I'm hearing from you is that you got rid of the external
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identifiers and looked into yourself, knew who you were created to be,
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as you said, created by God, your creator, your gifts, your purpose,
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and you ran with that, who you are.
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Yes, I ran.
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I ran with it and things were great for a while, but you know...
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For a while.
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So something changed.
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For a while.
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Well, you know, I think what and I think the older you get, the more you recognize
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this is that like your life is in cycles.
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Life happens in cycles.
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You know, I've heard it said, and I think this is true, that you're
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either just coming out of something, you're about to go through something,
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or you're going through it.
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You know, and so in those moments when you're not going
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through it, things are great.
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Like things are moving.
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My business grew, my daughter was doing amazing.
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I had a very robust life, you know, social life.
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I, you know, took initiative and really got involved in my community
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and just had some incredible experiences because of that.
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And then I think what happens is, you know, it's kind of like I, I like
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to compare it to being in school.
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Right?
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So when you're in school, like you go through primary, secondary, you know, get
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your associates, some people, bachelors.
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So every one of those grades and every one of those, you know, Times in your
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life, it requires different tests.
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And in order to graduate, the tests get harder.
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In order to graduate to the next level, the tests become more difficult.
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That's so true.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that's what I realized.
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I was like, okay, I clearly must have mastered that, you know, chapter my life.
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Level or chapter.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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That level.
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And it was like, okay.
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God was like, okay...
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Next one.
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Time.
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Yep.
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For the next one.
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Like, you got too comfortable.
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You can't get too comfortable.
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And if you do, something's going to happen to shift in your life
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so that you now have to shift.
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And to get through certain things, you have to become a
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different version of yourself.
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And I believe you always have a choice.
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You can either choose to, you know, stay comfortable in the pain of being
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uncomfortable, or you can choose to say, you know what, okay, this
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is painful, I'm gonna sit here with it, but I'm not going to stay here.
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Yeah.
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That's a big one.
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I'm not going to stay here, but I can sit in it.
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Yes.
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Learn from it, take deep breaths, say mmm.
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Yeah.
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You know, you mentioned something about energy vampires.
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Ooh, ooh, my gosh.
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So that was part of my graduating to the next level.
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That's what I realized.
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And I honestly just realized that very recently when I was just taking an
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analysis of all the different cycles I've been through, the different
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chapters in my life and looking at, okay, what is it that caused that shift?
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What do I need to learn so that I don't have to come back here again?
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And I realized that, you know, although I had healed for from a number of things.
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That one of the things, and again, it goes back to, you
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know, how you're raised without boundaries, I was a people pleaser.
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You know, for a lot of immigrant families, your parents.
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It's all about the grades.
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It's all about accomplishment.
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It's all about, you know, all those things.
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And so in order, and again, I don't blame my parents.
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Like this is what they knew, you know, this is what they were taught.
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And they just wanted the best for us.
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But a lot of the approval from your parents often comes from
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how well you're doing in school.
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Yes.
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And so if you're doing well, then you get all the...
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Excellent child.
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Accolades.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And you know the other thing I was telling my son, or one of my children recently
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that, remember we came from environments where we didn't have as many resources.
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So we are coming here to better ourselves and we are saying, these children can
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get this that I did not have and that.
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Ah, we didn't get it so they can.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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And that's the thing you always want.
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Most parents want better for their children.
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So I think that's a big part of where the people pleasing came from,
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you know, just going up culturally where no was not an acceptable
20:38
answer for pretty much anything.
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Except for the bad things.
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Except for the
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but everything else.
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Yeah.
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No wasn't a sentence.
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Oh my gosh, not at all.
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Not at all.
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And so you grow up like that and subconsciously you become a people
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pleaser, but that people pleasing and not wanting people to be upset
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with you, it transfers into your relationships, personal and professional.
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So you allow certain things because you're afraid of offending somebody.
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Yeah.
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And I realized I was like, my goodness, I let so many people into my life
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and I allowed them to stay there, even if they made me uncomfortable.
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I allowed them to stay there because by nature, I'm an empath.
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And so empaths, people who are very empathetic, like you feel people's pain.
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And you often, until you learn better, you often put other people's
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feelings ahead of your own, which is why it's so hard to have boundaries.
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Because you're so concerned about them and how they're going to feel.
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And you know, if what you say is going to hurt them, if saying no is
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going to hurt them, even though it makes you uncomfortable, like you're
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so concerned about that, that you put your own wellbeing on the line.
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And I realized that I, my goodness, I have done that for quite some
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time in all types of relationships, personal and professional.
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And so when that happened, somehow, someway, it's like
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they have GPS signals, right?
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These energy vampires, they will find you.
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They will find you, they will target you, and they will suck everything
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they can out of you until you realize.
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Oh no, enough is enough.
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Like, I can no longer do this.
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I have nothing left for myself.
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And so, I think it was around that time, when things were
22:31
going really well, you know.
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Again, people see you doing well and then they attach themselves to you or
22:37
find ways to attach themselves to you, to your success, to what you're doing.
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And I'm one of those people, I'd cheer all people who are doing well, like
22:45
please, you know, like I want, but you start realizing not everybody's like that.
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Not everyone is like that.
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There's people who see you and they want to attach themselves to you so they can
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take from you versus contributing to you.
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Yes.
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And so, yeah, energy vampires are definitely a thing.
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They're definitely a thing.
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And here's the thing.
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Many of them don't start off feeling like energy vampires.
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Many of them start off feeling like they're very generous people, like they
23:15
really care about you, like, you know, they're interested, genuinely interested
23:19
in you and your well being until they get really comfortable and start
23:23
seeing that they've gained your trust.
23:25
And that's when things start shifting, but it's so subtle that you don't even
23:30
realize what it is because they've already gained so much of your trust
23:33
and so much of your energy that you start seeing things like gaslighting.
23:39
And you're like, did that actually happen?
23:41
Like, you start second guessing yourself.
23:43
And it gets to the point where you stop following your own instincts.
23:49
And I think one of the greatest lessons I have learned in this past year,
23:55
because I've dealt with so much this past year but it was another major time
24:00
of growth and transformation for me.
24:02
One of the greatest lessons I have learned is we have that gut instinct for a reason.
24:09
And it's so important for us to not necessarily pay attention to
24:13
what people are saying to us, pay attention to how they make you feel.
24:19
Because if you really pay attention to that, usually your first instinct
24:23
is the right instinct about people.
24:27
Yes, you are spot on because I was speaking to someone recently and we're
24:31
Christians too, when we talked about you know, the word says do unto others
24:35
as you'd like them to do unto you.
24:37
Yeah.
24:38
But I said, but I've also discovered that you want people to treat you
24:44
the way you want to be treated and you will have to treat people
24:47
the way they want to be treated.
24:48
So I may feel that if someone shouts at me, that means they love me.
24:52
But if I shout at somebody else and that's not their understanding
24:57
of love, they feel I hate them.
24:58
Yes.
24:58
Their understanding, you know?
25:01
A hundred percent.
25:03
A hundred percent.
25:04
And that actually makes me think of the five love languages.
25:07
You know, that and that, oh gosh, I forgot the author.
25:10
John Gray is it?
25:12
I don't know.
25:12
I don't remember.
25:13
I don't think it's John Gray.
25:13
I don't remember.
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
But I think a lot of people have heard of the book.
25:17
Are you familiar with the five love languages?
25:19
Yeah.
25:20
Like that book was life changing for me because it helps you really understand
25:24
that the way... to your point, the way you receive love and feel like somebody
25:29
cares about you may be very different from how somebody else receives love
25:34
and feel like you care about them.
25:36
So it just, but again, it goes back to really learning to be still and
25:42
pay attention to your feelings versus all the stuff that you're hearing,
25:47
because words can be very misleading.
25:50
But your gut will never lie to you.
25:54
Yes.
25:54
Yes.
25:55
So let's talk also about forgiveness, because I know that's a big
25:58
part of healing, moving forward.
26:02
Yes.
26:02
Yeah.
26:02
Anytime that one has been hurt.
26:05
You've got to forgive yourself, right?
26:07
Oh my goodness.
26:09
Honestly, forgiving yourself is actually harder than forgiving other people.
26:13
You're right, because you're living with you.
26:16
Yes.
26:16
You know?
26:17
Yes it really is.
26:19
And I'll tell you when it comes to forgiveness, you know, they often
26:24
say that forgiveness is not for the other person, it's for you.
26:28
Mm hmm.
26:29
But that is so true, because what we don't realize is holding on to stuff,
26:34
holding on to emotions, you know.
26:37
Your thoughts and your feelings can make you sick.
26:41
Yes.
26:42
That's where stress comes from.
26:43
If you're ruminating on things all the time, it's going to make you sick.
26:49
And so again, that's one thing that I also recognize, like, look, I can't
26:53
hold onto unforgiveness and bitterness because again, like, what are you going
26:56
to attract into your life if that's what you're holding onto, you know?
27:00
So I, I had to learn to forgive, but I think part of the key to forgiveness
27:05
is again, just being really honest about what that person did to you,
27:12
how it made you feel, and then taking ownership and responsibility
27:17
for your role in the situation.
27:19
Because if you were in the situation, you played a role, you know, you
27:23
definitely played a role, whatever that looks like, you know, and that's
27:27
specifically speaking to adults.
27:28
Because, you know, children, you know, they often don't have a choice
27:31
in the situations that they're in so that's a little different.
27:34
But as adults, you know, we have decisions that, you know,
27:39
we have the free will to make.
27:40
So what decisions are we making that are putting us in situations like that?
27:44
So for me, forgiveness was definitely about, I don't
27:48
have room to hold onto this.
27:49
Because if I'm holding onto this, it's like, There's no room for goodness in my
27:54
life, so I have to release that, and I'll say one of my favorite thing, and I had
27:58
to do this actually just a few months ago.
28:01
One of my favorite exercises on forgiveness is there's
28:06
actually two of them.
28:07
One of them, I think I got from my counselor the first time, where you
28:11
write a letter to the person, you write out everything you want to say to them,
28:16
everything they did to you, everything you want to get out of your system, and you
28:21
just write it down, but you never mail it.
28:23
You can burn it up, you can trash it, whatever it is, but the key is to
28:26
let it out because there is therapy.
28:28
I'm one of those people, I have journals dating back to probably elementary school,
28:33
like I have always written stuff down.
28:36
Oh yeah, like because that's because it's how I'm able to process things.
28:42
And I found that when I write things down, there's a release that comes from
28:45
that because it's no longer in your head.
28:47
You're no longer really ruminating and holding it up here, but
28:50
you're actually getting it out.
28:52
Even writing the book was very therapeutic because again you're
28:54
getting these things out of your head, out of your system, out of your heart,
28:58
so you no longer have to hold on to them and think about them as hard.
29:01
But then, you know, a lot of times the people who you're looking to forgive, they
29:05
don't even know they need to be forgiven.
29:08
That's so true.
29:09
You are busy, you know, every time you see them, your blood pressure goes up.
29:13
Oh my gosh.
29:15
And they're innocent.
29:16
I mean, not that they're innocent.
29:17
They may not be innocent, but...
29:19
right.
29:19
They're unaware.
29:21
They're unaware.
29:21
They're completely ignorant, living their own life.
29:23
And so that's why, you know, writing the letter doesn't mean
29:27
you have to send it, right?
29:29
It's for you to release that so you can move on.
29:32
So that's one exercise that has always helped me.
29:35
And sometimes that letter may need to be to yourself.
29:39
Which is actually something I'm working with a yoga therapist now who is amazing.
29:43
And that's actually something she recommended that I do.
29:45
She's like, you know, you've done that for other people.
29:47
You might need to do that for yourself.
29:49
And so that's one exercise.
29:50
The second one for, on forgiveness is actually getting like post it
29:54
notes and writing down everybody you need to forgive for whatever
29:59
you need to forgive them about.
30:00
So, I forgive so and so for doing this to me.
30:03
I forgive so and so for doing that.
30:05
I forgive so and so for not doing, you know, whatever that is.
30:08
Write it all down.
30:10
And then take all those pieces of paper, put them in the fireplace, you know,
30:15
find somewhere safe place, please, or you can burn them up and release it and turn
30:21
it into your own ritual of forgiveness.
30:24
And there's something about taking action, like doing some kind of activity
30:29
to release certain things that it actually becomes more real to you.
30:34
So that's what I'd recommend because, you know, again, when you're holding
30:37
onto something I'm telling you unforgiveness, anger, bitterness,
30:42
all those things will make you sick.
30:45
There are people who are still ruminating over things that happened to them 5-10
30:49
years ago and they've stopped living and the people who, you know, done whatever,
30:55
they're moving on with their lives.
30:57
So you're the one suffering, you know?
31:00
Yes.
31:00
Yes.
31:01
Yes.
31:01
Well, you know, we could talk forever.
31:04
I can't believe that 30 minutes has gone by so quickly.
31:07
I know.
31:07
Oh, it's always when you're having the best conversations
31:12
that you have the time limits.
31:14
But one last thing to talk about before we let other people who have
31:20
joined us questions other than me, how can you rebuild after loss to
31:25
create a new version of yourself?
31:27
Give us like two tips and then we'll have the floor to others to ask.
31:31
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I have learned because it's, my goodness,
31:37
I've lost count of the funerals that I've attended in the past two years.
31:40
So it's been, it's definitely been one of those times for me, I think the biggest
31:46
thing has been realizing that healing requires every aspect of yourself.
31:54
And what I mean by that is therapy alone is not enough.
31:57
I am a huge proponent of therapy, but therapy alone is not enough
32:01
because we are spiritual beings, we're emotional, we're physical,
32:04
we're psychological, we're mental.
32:06
So you really have to address all those aspects of yourself if
32:09
you're really trying to heal fully.
32:12
So for me, what I realized I had to do was go beyond just the therapy to
32:16
look at what are other things I can do that will actually allow me to heal.
32:21
So that's everything from meditation to becoming a very proud plant mom, like
32:25
plants are actually very therapeutic.
32:27
They are.
32:28
Oh my goodness.
32:30
I love my plants.
32:32
I talk to them every day.
32:33
They all have names.
32:34
But really it danced, you know, for many of us dance.
32:38
We may not realize if dance is also for... movement is therapeutic because
32:42
it releases again, it releases all of these things from your body.
32:46
And being really intentional about it.
32:47
So, what I learned was in order for me to truly heal and find joy in my life again,
32:54
I had to address every aspect of myself.
32:58
And I actually wrote an ebook about it called Rediscovering Joy which
33:03
if people are interested, they can find it at rediscoveringjoyguide.com.
33:08
It's a free download.
33:09
Okay.
33:10
Awesome.
33:10
Awesome.
33:11
And that's a good point to end on because that's something I've
33:15
been telling a lot of people.
33:16
Choose joy.
33:17
Yes.
33:18
Let us choose joy.
33:19
You know, you can choose sadness.
33:21
You can choose.
33:21
There's so many things to choose, but why not just choose joy?
33:25
It's a choice.
33:25
Absolutely.
33:27
Absolutely.
33:29
So because we're going to open up the floor for other people who have joined
33:32
to ask you more questions other than moi, how can people find you online if
33:37
they're listening to this afterwards?
33:40
So you can find me everywhere.
33:41
My personal social media is julianbkiganda,
33:47
at julianbkiganda.
33:49
I'm on LinkedIn.
33:49
LinkedIn and Instagram are probably my most active platforms.
33:53
I'm on Facebook too, but LinkedIn, Instagram would be better to find me.
33:57
And then in terms of the work that I do, so I actually created
34:01
a platform called Emerge Live.
34:04
And that is to support women who are going through their own mental
34:08
health and wellness challenges.
34:10
And it's something that I'm very committed to just because I went through a very
34:14
close mental breakdown this year.
34:16
It was rough.
34:17
And I realized I'm grateful because I have the support system and the tools
34:21
that I needed, but so many don't.
34:23
So I created that platform.
34:24
And we're always posting content.
34:26
We have products that help women just support them along
34:29
their journey of healing.
34:30
So you can also find more information on that at emergeliveexp
34:35
on all social media platforms.
34:38
Awesome.
34:38
And for those of you who are listening in, not part of the audience,
34:43
I want you to know that just as Julian became a guest, so can you.
34:48
You can reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
34:53
I'm also on LinkedIn as Paula Okonneh.
34:56
I'm on Instagram, and my handle there is at chat_experts_podcast.
35:03
And I am on Facebook.
35:05
And I'm really working hard to be more on Facebook because I tend to do
35:10
LinkedIn and IG before I do Facebook.
35:14
Yeah.
35:14
Don't judge me now, but that's it.
35:18
And so thank you again Julian for being such a phenomenal guest on Chatting...
35:23
Thank you for having me.
35:23
With the experts.
35:24
Thank you.
35:25
And we'll open up the floor for more questions.
35:29
Thank you.