Latest / The Future of Canadian Curling / Episode 1: Introduction
Transcript
- Kyle (03:15) So Nolan, thanks for being here. And I just wanted to ask you, like, why do you feel this conversation needs to happen now, and what are you hoping to accomplish with all this? Nolan Thiessen (03:26) I mean, I think it's our responsibility at Curling Canada to be leaders and to think well into the future and think about where we wanna go. I mean, in my first three years in this role, I've heard a lot of people. I think the one thing I would say is there's a ton of people that are passionate about the sport. There are a ton of people who see improvements to be made, but I think mostly we're taking this on because curling, as an institution, matters. You know, for us, we care. We care about more than just the Brier, the Scotties, and Olympic medals. Obviously, obviously, we care about those. They're extremely important, but every piece of the game matters to us, and we wanna be leaders in it, and we wanna try to encourage improvements. I think the one big thing that you'll see as a part of this series is that at no point are we ever talking down about what decisions have been made or where we are as a system. I think the one big thing that you'll see as a part of this series is that at no point are we ever talking down about what decisions have been made or where we are as a system. I think it's: How can we build and improve? Kyle (04:42) So ultimately, who is this series for? Because at a glance, I think some people might think that it's up to the leaders of the sport, whether that be the National Sporting Organization or a member association or a curling club board of directors, to make those changes. But I think it goes beyond that. Why is this series going to be so important for the average curler who spends one or two times a week in their curling club throughout the winter as well? Nolan Thiessen (05:15) Well, I think it's showing them what we're truly trying to build. We're not just trying to provide a sport for people to play. We're trying to provide a community that people feel like they belong. And I think this series is to try to have everybody have a ton of discussions because just the board of governors and the management team at Curling Canada can't make decisions That can do all of the change that we probably need. We need member association operations and governance bodies to be aligned with some of these changes. We need curling clubs and their boards and their teams to be aligned with some of these ideas. We need the curlers who are playing the game and are a part of the community To sit there and say, I see why they're doing this, right? Like, I think it's understanding why decisions are made and the underlying reason why. I think healthy systems are ones where communication is really strong, and information flows through them. And this is one of the steps as a part of that: to just information flows through them, and this is one of the steps as a part of that to just have a big open discussion with everybody in the room, so to speak, and it's kind of have a big open discussion with everybody in the room, so to speak. And and it's kind of starting off with this this series and this podcast series and and is gonna keep going for for hopefully years to come. This series is gonna keep going for a few years to come. So you open up this chapter with the story of the three stonecutters, and it really, I thought, shifted the way that people can view the sport as something that they are giving into and something that they are proud of instead of something that they are just doing. Can you tell me a little bit about maybe first just the inspiration for that story, or why you think it was a good way to lead things off? And then also, as a follow-up, what do you actually think we're building here for Canadian curling? Well, I mean, the story I think was one that I read that really accurately said to me you can do separate things, or you can do the sort of the same thing, but it really means something different to different people. And for me, I kept sitting there going like, and I know you've been in rooms or you've heard me say this, like, we're not selling in-turns and out-turns. We're not selling, like, the sport of curling; we're not selling sliding up and down the ice, throwing the rocks. That's the action that is actually the community in the sense of belonging, and for me, that story was like: if we have more people who look at it and say, We're making Canada better because we have this facility, or I'm making my city better or my little town better, or my little community within like I curl at the Crestwood Curling Club in Edmonton, right? And the Crestwood Curling Club is this little community in Crestwood and Edmonton, and they're making Crestwood better because of what they're doing. Right. And that's where, if we have more people thinking like that, as opposed to just thinking in the short term of, well, I gotta do this or that, they can just say, Look, we're trying to build a community because I think that's what people need. That's what people want. Community institutions and social belonging are gonna take on more importance, and if we can be a leader as a sport, I think we're gonna be better off if we're sitting there not just selling. Community institutions and social belonging are gonna take on more importance, and if we can be a leader as a sport, I think we're gonna be better off if we're sitting there not just selling. 'Hey, we're a sport where you get to slide up and down the ice and sweep.' Hey, we're a sport where you get to slide up and down the ice and sweep. We're selling a place for people to belong. Kyle (09:00) A lot of my friends that I made through the sport are friends for life because of that. It's very much a community initiative and a community gathering, a place of belonging. And I think that's one of the key takeaways from these conversations as well: it is more than a sport; it's a place of belonging, and I'm curious, could you just expand a little bit on that? Because there's plenty of other sports, plenty of other activities that anyone in Canada can do. But why in particular does curling seem to just have this ability to bring people of all different backgrounds and ages and abilities to come together to play the game? Nolan Thiessen (09:42) I just see it so often, and you know, I think when I was younger I didn't really understand it, but you know, I love when we say I'm a curler. We're not just saying I curl. We're saying I'm a curler. It's like a sense of identity. And when we say that and someone else says, I'm a curler you have this connection because you've maybe never met this person ever, but you both say, I'm a curler, and you have this shared belief, you have these shared values, and they're positive, right? It's not it's it's not a negative. It's always looked at as a positive. And you know, for me, I've started to see it later on once I've started to really work in this board. And because I think when I first started, and I was chasing these high-performance dreams, you know, I look back now on some of the more recreational grassroots things that I did. And then now, like when I walk into a curling club, I feel like I belong here. And I've never walked into that curling club before. But I get the opportunity now to walk into them, and I'm like, I belong here. Everything feels comfortable to me, and I think a society is better when you have those places where you can congregate and feel shared values, shared beliefs, and a sense of belonging. We're better off for it. And for us, I think, just as a system, we're selling that to Canada. You know, we've been a home for so many people; you know, we've got clubs that are almost two hundred years old and approaching two hundred years old. We've been doing this for a long time, and we're gonna do it well into the future because we give you a place to call a home. Kyle (11:43) So let's take a minute just to talk about the reality that Canadian curling is facing today. I think when we talk about the future curling, especially when we work in the system, and even if you're just playing and contributing to your local curling club in your province or territory, we all come across the same challenges of volunteerism, facilities, changing demographics, like a competition essentially for people's time when there's so many different things to do and lower attention spans, it seems like. Like there's all of these things that people think are the curling system. And I guess why do you I think this is what you're kind of challenging is that those aren't necessarily what the future of curling is about. So like why do you start with those challenges and like how can they lead to us telling maybe the wrong story about curling? Nolan Thiessen (12:38) It's human nature to sit there and say, I if something has changed or if something is declining, you know, you sit there and go, something is wrong, right? It it's always easier to look at what's sort of wrong, but like when I look at the underlying metrics for the sport, it is not a sport in decline. yes, there are some clubs that are closing and some of that is because One of our one of our benefits of being around forever is also because and one of our downfalls and that now f some facilities are have aged past the point of being helpful anymore, right? it's also just asking the wrong questions, And and that story of decline is often tied towards play down numbers for the Briar and the Scotties. And I sit there and I go, well. That's one metric of an entire system, Like how many people curl? How many people curl once a year? How often is every sheet in use? And how do we make them more in use? So that's one of the reasons for this. It is to try to tell the story better that we aren't a huge system that's in decline and we're fading away to nothing, but We do need to make some improvements to potentially grow and maintain and and and and improve the service delivery that we are and and have been. Kyle (14:05) So I hear you saying kind of two things can be true at the same time. curling can still be strong, but the structures that support curling need to evolve. So how what does that distinction mean to you and those differences and how do they kind of work together? Nolan Thiessen (14:22) Well, it's another one of the analogies I have in this first series with the curling software, Where I sort of say, look, like at the end of the day, it's not rip it up and redo it, We're not sitting there going, Okay, we need to completely change everything that we do. Like the model and the delivery that we have is strong. We just need to improve, And and do things a little bit differently. And and it's not a wholesale change. So, That for me is I think the big thing is is ensuring that we champion what we're doing well, we tell the story better of what we're doing. But I you know, I've I've had these conversations and and I I love challenging thought, right? And and doing it from a place of like I think in in my I'm in a unique position where a lot of people Do trust that that I I understand the system, so to speak. So I ask people sometimes, I'm like, i if we had maybe 50 less clubs in this country, but we had a hundred thousand more people who were regular curlers, would you take that? Yes, everybody would take that, right? But nobody wants it to be their club that closed, right? Because of that sense of belonging in that community, it it's that thing that you that you've loved to go to. But I I look at communities and I go, you know, there's two clubs that are doing okay. Could they ever merge and be one club that does great and services the sport better? And are do we have the guts? Do we have the courage, as a system, to talk about that and maybe make a change like that and better serve the sport into the future, just because society's changing? and and that's that's that's one of the reasons why I did this. So people have the space to have those conversations without the fears of what it means or or like, you know, we can't do that. And it's like but Well maybe not, but let's at least talk about it. Kyle (16:32) Maybe not, but that's at least thought part. And and that's the thing. I I think it presents a responsibility to evolve and evolution, as you alluded to, it can be it can be scary, it can be challenging, but at the end of the day there's that responsibility. And you argue in this chapter and throughout the series that we are stewards of the game, and because of that, we don't own the sport, just like how the generation before us didn't own the sport. They did what they could to set it up for success. And now we are in a position where we need to try to do the same. So what does being a steward of curling actually require of this generation that we are in today? Nolan Thiessen (17:24) Yeah, that's that's the big question, right? Is a part of it. But yeah, I firmly believe like we none of us own this, right? I've I've said that all along. It like even even in my role, I've said, look, there's gonna be a CEO after Nolan. there will be a curling Canada long after Nolan. There will be curling long after after any of us. So we are just trying to leave it better. Then we found it. And that goes back to that idea of like it's it's not because somebody did something wrong. It's not because it's it's completely broken, right? Like this isn't a fear-mongering thing, it's just sitting there going, look, this is great. And how can we leave it even a little bit better when we leave? And someone else picks it up from there and says I can improve it a little bit more as well, right? Those are the if everybody had that kind of growth mindset of and that that mindset of look, this game's gonna be here for a long time. I don't need to be this transformational figure that that creates some sort of utopia. We just sit there and go, look, I I'm gonna make this a little bit better for the next generation. That's what I think, as opposed to trying to be w world changers. Kyle (18:56) So in that way of trying to make things better, it sometimes comes up against the traditions of the sport, which I think can lead people to questioning how do you change tradition? And I think you would challenge that in a different way. Can you explain to me your thoughts on how we balance tradition with moving forward? Nolan Thiessen (19:22) I mean that's an underlying theme throughout much of of this, right? you'll see that through a lot of chapters. I think first of all it's just kind of talking about it, It's talking about certain things and what's a tradition and what's a habit, right? What what is the you know, traditions are something that that is like may truly matter. but what's the habit that that we can break, so to speak. And it's funny because there are a lot of people I like, I'll have conversations, and people will say, Well, we can't change that 'cause it's tradition and and I always- I mean, I don't always want to talk about the events, but I think back to the Briar, right? People say, Well, we can't change the Briar 'cause it's tradition and I'm like, We have changed it. We have you know, at one point there was Montreal and Toronto and Quebec and Ontario and Northern Ontario and Manitoba, and then it was just the provinces and territories, and then we've had some wild cards, and then now we've got Team Canada's, and we've got, you know, pre-qualifying teams, but we've still kept that specialness of what it is, People still walk into a Brier and say, This feels important. Right. And that's the thing to me is where, like, I think the format for the Brier and the Scotties was probably a habit, but the tradition of the Brier is still what matters. That's probably the easiest way for me to describe it. And I think if we can think that way about more things, the better. I think the one habit That I would love to break and I've been trying to break is that idea that the events are the only way for clubs to survive. The play down system is what props up the clubs. And that's not the case, Those are two separate discussions, two important discussions. And and I think we are getting to the point where a lot of people in the system are ready to have two separate discussions about that. How do we keep a strong, thriving championship system, but how do we deliver a community sense of belonging and a social good so to speak through through our day to day of the clubs and grassroots. Kyle (21:55) How does Curling Canada do this? Is this something that falls squarely on the shoulders of the national sports organization, or is this a collective future that everyone must be engaged in? Nolan Thiessen (22:10) I mean it's a collective future for sure. I mean, we need to be leaders. I said that kind of at the start of the podcast, obviously, right? we we can't just sit on the sidelines and say, that's your that's your job. Like we'll look after this, right? We can't be a system of silos. we are interconnected. There's a ton of autonomy, but we are interconnected as well, So we can't just sit there and go, You look after that, we'll look after this, and everything'll be fine. I think we as leaders of the whole system and because we care about everything in the system, You know, we've got people at Curling Canada from youth impacts and first time all the way to adult learn to curl to high performance to you know Olympic medals. We've got these amazing championship events that provide all these experiences. Like we do so many things across the whole system, but we're not We don't own the whole system, so we need to just be leaders, and we need to be inspirational, and we need to provide the platform for people to have tough conversations so that we can improve in the future, and I think that's part of what this is as well, right? It's just providing that platform for open, honest, vulnerable conversation for everybody because Like as I said, everybody wants this thing to be good and and everybody wants improvement. Everybody cares. it's just how do we how do we all do our little piece to make this thing better and better and better and and then leave it for someone else? Kyle (23:52) So Nolan, if someone walks into a club ten years from now, what do you hope that they get to experience and what would you want them to say about the sport that we handed them? Nolan Thiessen (24:07) I mean, yeah, if somebody walks into a club in ten years from now, I'm I'm interested to see what that looks like, Is it does it look like it does today exactly? I think you want people to walk into a club and say, Wow, this is something that I want to learn more about. This is some place that wow, I feel welcomed. I feel important, I think those are the things that you always want people to feel. How you do that, I think, will will change and and evolve. But that's the big thing for me is I want people to feel welcome. They want them to feel important. I want them to feel intrigued, I think that's the other thing. You're not gonna bring someone into a club once, and then they're gonna just be, I mean, yeah, there are some people who go in once, and they're a curler for life, but in general you're gonna need a couple of times, but you need that first impression to be like I wanna learn more. I I this this feels like something I I need to do and and be a part of, right? That's that's what we need to provide. Kyle (25:11) And that's exactly why we are going to be continuing to have these discussions every week as the future of Canadian curling series comes out. Nolan, is there anything else about this introduction and this journey that you wanted to add before we sign off for this episode? Nolan Thiessen (25:28) No, I think I'm excited for all of this to roll out. I'm excited to have the conversations with people. I'm excited for people to tell me where I'm wrong and tell us where we're right, and to have the conversation about what's next. I think you're gonna see a b a bunch of conversation, and you know, as you've outlined, a lot of, you know, uncomfortable truths, but some some key things that we must never lose as a sport. And then, you know, there's there there will come a point where it's okay, well now what? Right. And that's where, if we're all working together in alignment with, you know, a mutual idea of success, I think we're gonna be better off when we come to the other side of it. I'm just excited for for this. This is this is a big project. I know this seems like a little thing that curling Canada did, but I know for me this is super important to really, really look ahead with everybody and really challenge all of us to do the small things to improve day in and day out.