Latest / WoT Spoilers / By Grace and Banners Fallen (Aviendha, Androl, Moghedian) - A Memory of Light prologue pt3 - EP593

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By Grace and Banners Fallen (Aviendha, Androl, Moghedian) - A Memory of Light prologue pt3 - EP593 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. So anyway,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: with all that mushy meandering out of the way or
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: something that's pretty good, we can actually get into Avianda
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: andrel and Mogeddion. So this first one is Avianda. This
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: is her giving her book report on what happened in Prudan.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I guess I should probably read us into it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Huh, yeah, let's go, let's get a read in. Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: By Grayson Banner's Fallen Part three, the sweat tent fell
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: completely still. Avianda had anticipated incredulity, perhaps apps at her
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: tail questions, certainly not this painful silence. Though she had
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: not expected it, she did understand it. She had felt
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: it herself after seeing her vision of the ideal slowly
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: losing jet Eto in the future, she had witnessed the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: death and dishonor and ruination of her people. At least
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: now she had someone with whom to share that burden.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Short reading, but that's what we're doing. It's just the silence.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: For you could hear a pin start to fall out
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: of a hand, much less drop.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: And we've got Cyrillia, Amice, Bear, Melane and Kimer who
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Kimer is a new wise one we've never heard of
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: before named for Kimberly Ready.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Nice, nice cool name. I really like the name Kaimer.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: As fantasy names go, it really feels top shelf to me.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: There's a fair number of uh named after Wheel of
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Time fans in this chapter.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. That makes sense again, lots of crowds
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: getting positioned for stuff to happen, so you can insert
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of names there. So Yeah, they kind of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: all go through what Avianda did right, a moment of
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: depression and despair, and then they all straighten their backs
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and are like, well, does it matter if that's fate,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to try to change it anyway.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and just this idea that they don't really
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: know what's going to happen in the last battle too,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I think that's important. Like he's sort of answering some
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: questions here that I feel like the fandom has had,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: is like, how do we know that these visions of
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: the future after the last battle? Well, if we have
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: visions of the future after the last battle, doesn't that
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: mean we win? And like, no, he can.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: End it right right.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: We're seeing the pattern as it will be when it continues.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: But if it ends, we can't.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Foresee that, and to an extent that means that maybe
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: we're not even seeing what's going to happen. Maybe we're
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: seeing different things that could happen, because that is such
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a crucible of uncertainty that we're passing through that like
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: no vision has any kind of doesn't have the same
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: kind of water holding capacity right as a the kind
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: of visions we've been dealing with in the last few
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: decades and centuries. And then they moved to a more
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: scientific approach, which is, how do we test this, How
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: do we start to add some amount of certainty to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: all these uncertainties. We have to get another data point.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: We can't just have Avienda's take. We need someone else
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to go in and see what's what.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: And that's where they discuss a bunch of fans of
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the Wheel of Time.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: They're all apprentices who definitely existed the whole.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Time, not just being invented for this paragraph. Elean Air
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of the Darrehen is eleanor Petner, Hayde is Lauren Hayden,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and Shannie is Shannie Gamble.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I wonder what the process is for taking someone's name
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and deciding how to fantasy if I because you can
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: see sometimes very obvious what they did to change it
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: or not change it, and other times it's like I
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: can see some kind of loop to loop that got
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: you from point A to point B.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: But so in that link I sent you earlier, it
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: is character names derived from reader names by Linda on
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the thirteenth Depository. I believe there's a quote that basically says,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I kind of looked at the name and picked the
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: first name of the last name, which everyone one looked
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: better to me, and you know, altered the spelling a
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: little bit and made it fantasy. That was Brandon Sanderson.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: That's me, you know, summarizing his quote about how he
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: did it, which is he just looked the name and
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: found something he liked and tried to make that a
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: fantasy name.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Makes sense. I mean, I think he did a good job.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Most of them work great, some of them are kind
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: of tortured, but most of them are great. So, yeah,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: they suggest an apprentice, and we know by the end
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of the POV that who is it Bear or is
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: it Amy's Bear Bear?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Because I'm East can channel and Bear's like you might
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: as well someone who can't channel, right right? Yeah?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Bear, you know, kind of steps in front
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: of this line of untested women, and she's like, yeah,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Aviandas survived. But Avianda is a supergirl, and we can't
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: just be throwing some random apprentice into this for science,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Like let' throw me an aged grandmother who can either
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: handle it or be afforded to be lost either way.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: But you know, they suggest fans of the Wheel of
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Time as canon photo first.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what good is it being in the
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: books if you don't die in the books, right your
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: whole story arc. You get to be introduced and die
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: in one scene. I think that's the best. Who wants
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: to just be like someone in the background who is
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: fate is unknown?
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: No heroic I yield number seven as opposed to random
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: generic ideal number seventy seven.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: For sure. I find it interesting that Avianda had to
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: use her bond rand to find Meryl or it's like
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: everybody's going there. How did no one tell her?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: You know, because she left when before they had decided
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: on that.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, because they were coming. She's just in the waste
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: that whole time.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a week, right, They were like, okah,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you should take a couple of days to go in
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to run the rest of the way in after you
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: leave us, and then I'm guessing that the visions take
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: a couple of days to get through, and then she
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: probably takes at least one night to think about it
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: before she bothers leaving again. So yea, it's probably been
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: like a rand Land week. That's long enough for them
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to pack up from Tier and go to Marollor do you.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Think she just gatewaighted right out of Rudein because there's
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: people living there now.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: No, No, she ran in to be respectful to the space.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I bet she ran out as well, at least back
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to that rock shelter where she had her encounter with Nakomi,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: just to like give it its proper like mental space.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, we know at the end of that POV
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: she says she has to go out to the desert
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to rest and to think before she goes back to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the wise Ones. So I imagine that that means she's at
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: least a half a day out just on her own
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: two feet before she decides to gateway.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, that makes sense. Yeah, we don't. I don't
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: think we have a specific timeline for her.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: No, And so yeah, they kind of decide we're gonna
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: try to change it. We're gonna use this as a warning.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: So what is the vision about? Naviana says, the vision
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: is about whatever it is he's planning to do tomorrow. Right,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: we know that he's got a thing to do tomorrow
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: that's going to be where the changes are possible. So
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: no pressure at all.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So here's a question. Rand went through a gateway to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: tear and returned with something. What is that?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Is that where he had the seals stashed away?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: It was I was wondering, is that the seals? Or
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: is a calendar?
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: It's not calendar, right because he already got calendar brought
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: back to him.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Right. Is it because Cod Swayin has a hold of that?
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah no, Cad Swain had stashed that away. Yeah,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: so that would have been the seals I think that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: he had stashed away. But those have also been turned
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: have been swapped at some point for the fakes, right,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Those are the seals that ultimately end up turning out
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that they're fake.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: So I think that's what he went to go get,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: is the fake seals.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I believe so because he's bricked, because I mean, everything's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: coming together right, He's like, I need these on a
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: hand so we can talk about if and when and
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: how I break the seals. And also here I have
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: to hand them Tomgwayne and say here you break the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: seals or he needs them physically on his person, and
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: he had them hidden somewhere secret. So I imagine that
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a cubby hole hidden with the power, you know, in
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the basement of tear the stone of Tiar would probably
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: make sense. But yeah, that's my best guess.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And we never figure out how those are stolen and replaced, right.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Not to my knowledge, it's very clever.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: My assumption I remember again, is Logane put some sort
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: of tracker on the seal he gave to Rand, and
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: so then one Ran stashed them. He was able to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: break in and swap them out for fakes because he
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: was able to track.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I mean Time Time, what I say, Logan, the other
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: false dragon, the good false.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Dragon, Yeah, the good false dragon.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, the bad false dragon.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: When Time gave the seal to Rand, I assume he
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: put a tracker on it, and that's how he was
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: able to find the stash and swap him out for fakes.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: That would make sense because I think we know that
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: metal and stone both take a finding really really well, right,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: cloth and leather and whatever. It goes away pretty quick.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: But I don't know that's stone. But we don't know
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: about quindiar either. We know metal, Yeah, is quinniar metal? Well?
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think of it as more of like
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: a stone. I mean it's called heart stone. But anyhow,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I just think more solid objects seem to be better
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: at keeping that even after months. Right, So that would
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: make sense that, yeah, Ran could stash them wherever the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: hell he wanted, and as long as that weave he
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: didn't know to xpunge off of it is still stuck there.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And how would you even expunge a finder? I don't
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: even know if that's a thing you can do with
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the power. Can you even notice them much less get
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: rid of them?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Right? I mean it seems like you can slice weaves
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: if you know they're there, but you can't see.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Them, right, And this is probably like a little knot.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: An inverted knot, yeah, tied around it.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: It's just it's a little like like a little trucker dot. Right.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: This isn't like some big, huge, complicated weave. This is
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: just a little.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Pepp It's like a closer further way maybe you.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, totally totally. So, yeah, one assumes that Tayim
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: had this planned out from the jump, that this is
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: something that Robert Jordan was anticipating. Either that or Sanderson
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: was just like, I could reconbent in there, it's fine,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: but I would rather imagine that Jordan always had time
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: having this twist in his pocket and was just like, yeah,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I'll just write that in the notes from now and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: we'll see when it comes up later.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, no, a call back to Marine putting the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: trackers on the coins she gave the boys, for sure.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, totally totally.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: It's just not metal, it's quendyr, so we assume it works.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does Quendyar stick to weaves better or worse? Right,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: does the fact that it's Quendyar make it stickier or
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: like more.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: More invulnerable to anything? Yeah?
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: We've a phobic is it? We've philick or weave phobic?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Turends on how much hair it's got? I do like
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: here Avianda being like thinking like, yeah, I can see
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Rand's side of this a little bit. If he'd made
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: a demand with them with the others, the wise ones
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: would have been offended that he lumped them in with
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the others. Either way they were going to be offended.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I do think she's right about that. Rand picked a
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: fifty to fifty choice where both options were you pissed
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the aol off, right, Like, yeah, this this does seem
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: like there was no right choice for him to make.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: He he needs to create a mess for Avianda to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: stick a spoken and try to clean up either way.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And then I love the Avianda's line one night remains
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: it will be enough, he.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Will be mine. Yes, I got one.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Night because they warned her. He's changed, right, He's in
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: this embraced death. This is the first time she's seen
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: him since the whole Veins of Gold moment, because she
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: had to go be become her wise oneself before she
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: could possibly deal with Rand somehow.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Right, Right, she's the one who raised the alarm during
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the Darth Rand creation sequence, right, Like, she's the one
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: who was like, I think Rand might be having a
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: real problem. Everyone, we should go rescue him. Oh no,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: everything is a problem. Right And then men you know,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: thanks her for or tries to talk to her like
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in the afternath of that. That's what triggers her to
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: go tell the wise ones off, right, like she very
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: much left at the depths of Rand's darthiness. She has
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: seen nothing of him since all those transitions have happened,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: but you know she can feel him through the bond,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and you know she is bound and determined that she
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: is ovulating tonight.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Because magic magic ovulation, because we know she gets pregnant tonight.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the only time when we know canonically
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: that she could be getting pregnant with her quadruplets, right, like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: unless she gets pregnant with Mordan's body, which I just
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: choose to disregard as an option because that's weird. And
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: we know that she's not currently pregnant from the time
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that snow Igloo happened, because that was like enough months
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: ago that if she was pregnant, we would know. So
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: this is canonically the only time that her and Rand's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: body have the chance to get it on.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So yeah. The next scene is Bear basically saying I'm
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: going to go We're not going to send any of
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: those stupid apprentices, right and basically make me a gateway
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: to do you have to go bully Amice into it,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: which is just the funniest thing in the world to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: picture Bear bullying Amese. But it's exactly what would happen,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It would work.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I have full confidence in Bear's ability to bully Amice,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: but it does make sense to traite you simply cajole
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the newest wise one rather than bully one of your
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: actual contemporaries.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: We get a follow up about Nacomi, which just tells
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: us nothing other than the name is ancient. So obviously
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Nikomi is an ancient a Eel, which of course makes
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: her one of the lost right.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: She is a gen.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: She's a gen.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's definitely gen. Whether it's because there's a secret
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: enclave of inbreeding gen who are somehow evading the Aeal
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: wandering around the waist for three thousand years, or because
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: she's a ghost that was caught in the veil of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Rudy and as a deliberate sacrifice to be there for
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: someone like Avianda in the future. Either way, definitely.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Gen and me, in my head cannon clear.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And then we get the really practical way of dealing
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: with the question of is this fate locked in or
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Notveanda says, you know what, if there's nothing we can do,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and Bear says, change the name of one of your children.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: You didn't tell any of us what the names of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: your children were only you know what the names of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: your children were. Never tell us what you've changed, but
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: change one of their names. And if that is a
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: change you can make, and the rest of it is
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: malleable and is up to our free will, and we
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: have the potential to still not know what is coming
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: next in a meaningful way.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Of course. In the horror movie, you say the name
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: you choose and someone writes down the wrong name and
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: so officially their name that and you end up like
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: being you know, it's like you can't if it was
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a horror movie, you wouldn't actually be able to change
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the name, or if it was one of those a
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: time travel movie or something like that. But that's not this.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: This is like very clearly a warning of the future.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: And this is very clearly a way that she can
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: make a change that will at least void a part
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: of the vision which tells her she can avoid the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: rest of it if she makes different choices. That's saying
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: you are allowed to make different choices.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it says your choices still matter, you still have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: It's essentially answering the question of free will right totally,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Like are you faded to do this? Is there nothing
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you can change. No what we guess, we're not right,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it's science. And my personal guess is she's going to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: change the name of on callam or not do on
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: call whatever, the mother, the branch, that goat that does
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the annoying things that make her mad, that's the name
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: she's going to change for sure, right, like not that bitch.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, Bear runs off to be even more
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: of a badass than Avianda because she knows what's coming
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: with the second vision. Right, Avianda walked in blind, not
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: knowing what would happen. Bear knows what she's gonna have
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to deal with, and she goes off to deal with
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it because she is a grandma and she has no
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: fucks to give.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Do we ever, does she come back and give her report?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Do we have that on screen?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, she does come back, and I believe she says
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that I saw something similar, but from different eyes, as
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you would expect. And I don't recall if that makes
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: them feel hopeful or not. I just recall that she
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: does come back and says, oh, yeah, that's going to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: happen to us now when we go visit.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: For the second time. Right, because they've all gone through
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: the first.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: They still don't know what will happen to a newbie
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: going through for the first time. That is still unknown,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and they're going to have to send an apprentice for
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that by definition, because wise ones can't go in the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: first time again.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Let see, Yeah, it looks like Bear comes back, gives
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that report and then like talks to Agwayne before she
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: figures out how to heal bailfire.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's athlon I agree. He said he's confused
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: because she had to reconfigure the columns to make it happen.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if the first vision is available anymore, right,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you have to go twice.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Or if it's just like, yeah, we don't know.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Anyone who's gone or have just been reset so that
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: anyone who's gone through before it doesn't matter. You get
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: to see the new visions just like anyone Nuby will,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: but no new bee gets to see. I think the
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: old visions are gone.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's the question that they're not gonna
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: probably even try to answer until after the last battle
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: dust has settled. Right, that's just straight up a fourth
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: age question.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we just don't know. We don't know if there
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: will be the old visions. I made the assumption there
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: are not.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: That makes me so sad to think that they've lost that.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, everyone else in the world
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: has to lose their ancestral history, so why should the
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: idell be special. But that's sad to think that she
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: just like blinked it all out. She just like wiped
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a magnet over that hard drive and it's gone now.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: But I guess it makes sense because you want the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: yelled to be more about what will happen in the
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: future and less about who they were in the past, right,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: like they're changing.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, they paid their debt, right, that was a
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: memory of the debt, so you quite yeah, literally, for
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it's as though it never happened.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Right, And so reliving that and remembering it is a
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: way to shame the idea.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Most people are allowed to forget their historical shames and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: war crimes, and they have to be held to account constantly.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean yes, there's still oral tradition and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: books and more traditional means of culture keeping, which again,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: you know, no one else in all of Randland or
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: any other fantasy world really gets, you know, genetically re
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: accessed memories that's not really a thing that normal people.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You just have to deal with books and oral histories
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, lists of names and bibles or whatever.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: And it's not like they had any of their any
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: recent history in that either, right, because it's been no.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They've been kind of just stuck on standby becoming warriors
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: for the past two and a half thousand years. So yeah,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I mean looking forward to the future is maybe an
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: appropriate step forward. But I hope that they get some
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: written accounts of what the wise ones and clan chiefs
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: remember before they all die and take those memories completely
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: into the grave. Becaues they wouldn't tho because the wouldn't
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: want to remember the shame. Oh that's so that's so bitter.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It's not even bittersweet. It's just bitter. I mean, as
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a Brownaja person.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: You know, right, the love of history is there.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, you can't just erase it because cultural reasons,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: we need to preserve.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: That the wheel of time will be there to preserve
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the history. They keep an eye on it. But yeah,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: or maybe you can just access the different maybe, you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I mean you can go back there and be like, uh,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: dial up the memories let's go.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: But semon as I points out, it needs to be
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: a rased in order to repeat again. M hm, this
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: is intrinsic to the wheel of time. It must be lost,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: spitting the loure back at me. What are you a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: real fan?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Are you ready to go to Androl and Pavara?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. Let's go over to Sanderson's self insert.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: It's not a self insert just because he's not inserting himself.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: It's a self writing insert.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but this is Andrel
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: go in full leather worker and the yeah, coming together
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: with Pavara in that dynamic duo. This is this is
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: where Sanderson's Andrel has you know, fully gearshifted all the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: way up and we are pedal to the metal going.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah and doctor pants. I do love Andrel and Pavara.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I do think they're fun. They just feel so Sanderson
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: compared to Jordan, right, like, you can tell that this
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: is much more him taking the reins and basically playing
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: with the one power in his POV. So I really
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: like them a lot. But to me, it's like the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: least Jordan part of the books.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I guess this isn't actually the first time we've seen
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Andrel do leather working, but it's still very deeply leatherworky.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: It's a very leather worky scene. Yeah, but it's showing
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: him mess up. Right. The first time they showed him
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: doing leather working, he was very precise and not making
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: any mistakes. And now he's stressed. He's messing up whole punches,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: he's ripping it, he's finishing it up, you know, not
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: remember the first time he said little things lead to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: big results. One small snap's, you know, one right broken
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: thing can lead to you know, a king falling basically, you.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Know, right, for want of a single arm bracer. The
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: kingdom was.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Lost exactly exactly. And here he's messing up the little things,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: and so it shows just he's stressed. He's not doing
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: as well. Like the ambulance seat. The leather working is
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the analogy and showing you how he's actually doing in
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: his current because he's the Black Towers being undermined. He
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't know what to do, he doesn't know really want
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: to be the leader, but people are listening to him.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Right, and then I do like his approach to finished
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: is better than perfect. Right, he's like leaving something unfinished
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: is nearly as bad as messing up the details. He's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: going to finish this project, even with all the mistakes,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: because that's you know, as a perfectionist, I need those
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: reassurances that perfection is not in fact the goal. Completion
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is the goal, at least when you're crafting something.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And maybe you can talk about that for the Black Tower, right, like, oh,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the Black Tower needs to be finished, right, even though
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: it's got flaws, even though it's got some problems with it,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: it's better to complete it than to not complete it
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: and walk away.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I like that that you can't stop and worry about
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: one little detail when the whole is on a timeline,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Like we've got a bigger deadline than this one little detail,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Like we'll have to fix that later, We'll have to
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: come back to it at another time, because we have
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: an actual mission that matters.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you've lost some people to turning.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Those are the flaws, you know, But that doesn't mean
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: you can stop.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: No, you can't. It's that concept from Jewish philosophy of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: like you are not obligated to complete the work of
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: repairing the world, but neither are you allowed to just
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: walk away from the work. You aren't going to finish it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: You don't have to try to finish it, but you
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: do not get to stop being part of it. So
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: then we get a fun little androl I've traveled the world,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and I have cool proverbs to share. If his sword
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: is at your enemy's throat, don't waste time remembering when
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: it was at yours, right and of me, and my
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: enemy is my friend, but rephrased into a very Saldaeian
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: sort of turn of phrase.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Right, and also just in the moment too, It's not
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: like you're my friend forever. It's just like, oh, as
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: long as your sword is attacking somebody else, I'm not
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: going to worry about you. Right.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: If you're in a fast moving situation, rehashing the past
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: is not the best use of your time. Dealing with
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the present is probably what you should be worrying about, in.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Which case he's saying, like, don't worry about what the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: White Tower's done in the past. We have these people
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: as allies now, right.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: He's like, a red should not be my ally in
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: a normal, sane world. But I have a Red who
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: wants to be my ally right now, and the world
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: is not sane. So I guess that's what we're doing,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you know, strange bedfellows, strange traveling companions, all of those things.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Is what happens when you're trapped in a string king
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: circle of light and there's a red at your back.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: And then she has a very Freudian slip, you know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: because he's this will interview back and forth thing, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: she says, I want to know what kind of person
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I've slipped into bed with. Figuratively speaking, of course, we
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: know by the end of the books they're like definitely
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: going to be hooking up. Oh yes, as soon as
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: they've properly slept and showered post last battle, they're totally
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: hooking up.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I bet the only reason the Oaths letter say that
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: is because she was willing to. She was like interested
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: in them.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Well, and also I think you're allowed to use figures
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: of speech, sure, but sarcasm and Freudian slips are weird
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: edges edge cases for the Oaths. Yeah, because yeah, it's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: like subconsciously you're thinking about slipping into bed with him.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: That's what that said. He I mean, we know that
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: she's into men. We know that she's way more into
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: men than most of the other Reds like, she's definitely we.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Know a later point she is into Androl specifically, although
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: that's after they she shares his mind and you know,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: gets to know him better.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, after they've double bonded and go through a couple
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: of near death experiences, then they're actually directly attracted to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, and it's only one hundred year age
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: gap and she's the older one.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fine, nothing, she's only like three times his age.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: It's fine.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: He's lived like three lifetimes for his purported age, so
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: it basically evens out.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: That's right, because isn't he only like twenty five or
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: something ridiculous like that?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I think like thirty, But yeah, ridiculously young for having
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: lived multiple lifetimes across like all of recent history.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: It's like, were you fighting in a war at twelve?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: That's the only way for you to age tractly. Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: It's like if rand just kept doing all this shit
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: for like another like ten years, and it would be like,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: oh wow, how old. Because when we say these books
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: feel like they should have taken like five to ten
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: years to do, right, not the two plus that they
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: end up being. That's kind of how it feels like
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: with Andral is like, dude, how did you do all
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: this stuff? And travel? Yeah? Travel takes time.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Meet all these people, learn all these customs, and vaguel
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: yourselves into all of these different secret societies. Like where
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: do you find the time to literally get from one
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: place to another?
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: He turns to us, I don't have a phone.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: That he just figured out gateways in his sleep long before.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Moodie, I like that, Yes totally, But I like it.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: What is it? It's Andral is the RPG character that
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: did all the tiny side quests while ignoring the main quest.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: So then they talk about circles for.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: A bit, which is, you know, very intimate.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's something that he doesn't know about. Right,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: she's introducing the very concept that men and women can
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: put their flows together, right because Andrel has been kept
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in the dark quite literally by time in terms of
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: knowledge about the power. Right, it's just here's how to
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: make things explode. Oh you can't make it explode. I
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: don't care about you. There's no theory of how the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: power works. There's no first principles that you could extrapolate from.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: It's just make rocket to gravel.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And I like his quote on this. All men are ignorant,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I said, I the topics of our ignorance may change.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: But the nature of the world is that no man
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: may know everything, right because like, uh, and that's why
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: you have to rely on experts, Yes, because they know
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the most about that topic that you can never learn
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: unless you dedicate your life to it. That's what they've done.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: They've dedicated their life to it. And so you have
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: to say, Okay, I cannot do that for every single topic.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: You can really only do it for one, right, Like,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: so you have maybe maybe a handful two or three, right,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: but like you have to let the experts tell you
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: the correct take on things.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: And also it's the biggest red flag for bullshit ever
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: if someone says I know everything about everything. I'm a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: doctor and a journalist and an activist and a basketball
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: star and a marine biologist. No you're not. No, you're not.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You're simply not. You do not have the capacity to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: tell me about deep intrinsic things on all of those
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: points like this, if someone tries to claim they know everything,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: you can just disregard everything that they're saying because they don't.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: True experts are very humble about what they do and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: do not know, and when they say I know this
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: about marine biology and nothing about anything else, you can
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: trust that. But if someone's like, yeah, no, I totally
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: know how the government works and the economy works, and
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: also the sun, No they don't.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they don't know. I mean, I have a
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: degree in engineering. I watch tons of YouTube videos about
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: space and science and physics and black holes, and I
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: consume everything I can get my hands on. And you know, no,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I'm in no way an expert on any of that stuff, right,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Like I would have to let the experts tell me
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: what to do because I have Even though I dedicate
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of my free times learning that stuff, I've
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: not dedicated my life to it. And it's just a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: different level.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: But also like, if I'm looking for cool black hole facts,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I'm coming to you, and not sure my other friends
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: who know nothing about engineer or black holes because they
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: are musicians or whatever it is. You know, it's like,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: go to he's a correct expert for your job, for
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the task at hand.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: And sometimes what you have to do is go to
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the people who've talked to the experts and be like, Hey,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: what do the experts say? Can you summarize it for me?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Right, yet totally knowing how to find information, knowing, Oh,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you have a question about Pacific Northwest geology, I need
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Nick Zentner. Nick Zentner specifically is going to be the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: guy that's made the coolt like I don't necessarily know
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the thing, but Wikipedia not nearly so good. I know
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: about this other random YouTuber though, who is a professor.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing is if you know a
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff about little things, you should be able
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to point people at better resources. If you actually care
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: about something like as a hobby's special interest, you should
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: be able to say I am humble enough to know
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: what I don't know and to give you a highly
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: curated list of experts where you can ask that question properly.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: The nature of life is you don't know everything. Like
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: who the hell is born knowing everything that they're going
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to know as an adult?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Literally nobody? So like the idea when I come across
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: people who just assume they know everything or assume that
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: they don't have to use their critical thinking skills or
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: learn anything, and like, but you do remember not knowing
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: how to tie your shoes, right, you do remember not
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: knowing the name of the state that you live in right,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Like you had to learn things as a child. Why
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: would you think that that's stopped.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: And the more I've learned, the more I realize how
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: much knowledge is out there and how little of it
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I actually know. And so I think the people who
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: know very little, who think, oh, I only need to
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: know like one or two more things, and then I
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: know everything you know, And it's like, yeah, behind one
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: or two of those things is a whole nother world
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: of knowledge you haven't been exposed to.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. It's the process of knowing what
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: you don't know is a practice. It is an active
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: practice to realize what you don't know. But all of
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: us should have enough intellectual honesty and curiosity to be
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: able to admit that we don't know everything and there's
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: still stuff to learn. And yeah, Andrew puts it very
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: pithily here, which is cool.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And then Sanderson really lays out exactly how a circle works.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I can basically see the diagram despite the fact that
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: it's written in words, and.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: That's what he specializes at, is like diagramming things in
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: words in a way that you can really see them.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Circle al must contain more women than men, except in
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: very women's cases, which is when you only have like
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: two or three people. Right, So a woman and a
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: man can link, a woman and a woman can link,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: two men.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Cannot, right, because it's weird if it's just two guys. Right, confused,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Pikachu face.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: It really does seem like someone drew these rules out
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to be like, all right, here's how women, many women
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: have to be in the room in an orgy in
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: order for it not to be gay.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Exactly, that is exactly what the rules feel like.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Ah right, A woman and a man totally fine, not gay? Right,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: A woman and two men still not gay? Two women
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and two men not gay. And then other than that,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: as long as you have more women than men, you're fine.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is so accurate. Why is this
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: in my magic system?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Because Jordan and Harriet were swingers, I'm just going to
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: say it, and he laid these rules out. They were
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: definitely he pulled these directly. The keys were in the bowl,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: the pineapples upside down, and these were the rules. A
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: man and a woman is okay, A man and two
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: women is okay. Other than that, we're going to need
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: more women than men or it's going to get weird.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: We can't have emotional intimacy between two men without a
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: female intermediary. That would be strange. Oh my god, Oh
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: my god. That is funny, and I hate it.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: It works a little too well well.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: But from that very ridiculous rule set we get to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: move into the far more interesting little bit of rules,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: which is that this is Pavara learning that Androl is
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: by far and away the weakest of the channelers. The
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Black Tower ordinarily organizes itself by strength, much like the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: White Tower, but in the case of the good and
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: noble people, who are actually the righteous moral compass of
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the Black Tower, the weakest man is actually the leader,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and that surprises her. It's very important information for her
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: as she assesses her tools in.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: This situation, and I think that is She's like, but
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: they listen to you, and so there's that moment of like, oh,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that means you must have something more than power.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Or like, you have power, but it's not the power,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: like it's the theys that I can't imagine of a
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: power hierarchy structure other than their own. They just can't
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: comprehend that other people organize differently, and even the Black
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Tower does not Traditionally organize like this. But Andrew has
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: main character energy and so it doesn't matter how little
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: power he has.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And we get the name drop of Jonathan is named
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: after Jonathan Dowtree. Sorry, Jonath Doutree is named for Jonathan
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: ham Ah. But the other two are previously existing characters.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Naalam and Emarin are yeah both. Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one where he's the noble who to
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: his brother died. Yeah.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Nalama's I think the other storyteller guys one
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: with the soul of a gleaman, I think. But yeah,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: they've existed in other parts, you know, Johnath Doutry. I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: feel like that's the name we've come across before. He's
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: like adjacent to adjacent to adjacent Two Rivers guy or something.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Oh see, Yeah, he is in Towers of Midnight as well.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Just in the various povs with Androl he's mentioned. Yeah cool,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: and he's from Emmonsfield.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, not just the Two Rivers but Emmonsfield specifically.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but as far as I can tell, his first
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: mention is in Towers of Midnight chapter forty six.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: So yeah. Pavara is surprised that the weakest man in
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the tower would have the most authority, but it is
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: what it is. And then Emarin and Candler come in. Candler,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I believe is a name we've had before. It's not
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a fan name. And they basically were out doing reconnaissance
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to see how hard it's going to be for the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: non turned Reds and Ashaman to escape.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Oh. I think he may actually also he's just also
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: like Dautry was no, no, he was Doutry. Okay sorry.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Can Lear is from a Crown of Swords.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that reminds me of an early Black Tower scene.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: He works out the wartar bond to women for his wife.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Oh. I love this interaction between Pavara and Damaran. It's fantastic,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Pavara says, Have I mentioned how intriguing it is. I
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: find it that the one of you could choose me
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: with the most respect as a tyrant, and Damarn responds,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: being polite to a person is not a sign of
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: respect for them. It is nearly a sign of good
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: upbringing and a balance to nature.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I do don't respect you. I was just merely raised right.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, this my behavior is a reflection on my
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: upbringing and my sense of self has nothing to do
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: with you whatsoever. You get treated like this because that's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: who I am as a person, not because of how
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: I feel about you. Yeah, very nail painting emoji of him.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: It's fantastic. I just I love him so much. It's
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: a good insult because it's like, I don't need to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: insult you. I've got my own thing going on.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: And he's still a tyrant. He still doesn't like isad.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I No, of course not, despite the.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Fact that they have done you know, I mean later
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: we have andrals like, oh, I know what they've actually
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: done for you? Right, Like you don't have much accounts them.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: He has whitelisted kats Swain in his mind, right, I
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: think every other eyesid eye is still beneath his notice.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: But he's okay with kat Swain.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: That is discussion about people sort of changing, right, They're
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: being turned.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Right because they're kind of debating when are we going
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to run? I think we're gonna run tonight. I don't
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: want to leave people behind. People are getting turned. The
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: shadows are creeping up on us, right, Everything is creeping
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: up on them. His paranoia, the threat of Taiame's men,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: everything's closing.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: In, right because those shadows he sees are part of
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: his corruption insanity.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the shadows are coming to get him and he
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: won't be cured of that until ninieve, can you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: dethorn his brain or whatever?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And Bavara says, Oh, the isid Ee outside the gates
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: can storm in and rescue them. And it's like that
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: wouldn't work, Like they just get slaughtered, like they're no
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: good in the fight really, which we're going to see
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: in the last battle. And then also like they're our
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: allies would probably also adapt them. Right, They don't know
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that the isidi are coming to rescue them. They think
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: the isid I are a threat.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: They don't understand, right, And do we have families in
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: here that we cannot allow to get caught in the
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: crossfire of that sort of a battle. We get a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: mention here of Kandler has a family, right reminder that, yeah,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: that's the guy that did the water thing because he
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: has a family to protect. And so yeah, there's then
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: they kind of discussed the difference between white to black
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: tower education, right. Andrews says, do you think the isid
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I can win? And she says, oh, we have centuries
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: of experience and he says experience doing what right? Doing what.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: This is exactly the argument that Agwaine makes to Masana, Like, yeah,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you're more powerful and knowledgeable and from a completely pampered
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: age with no difficulty. We are tough and scrappy street
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: dogs that have never had a break in three thousand years,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and that's what you're going up against. This is the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: same argument, like all we do is fight. We don't
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: worry about politics or history or we just fight.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: That's it, except that's it is a weird argument from
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Mgwayne because like no.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Because she's argument on behalf of the White Tower, seeing
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the White Tower has been forged in fire for three
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: thousand years compared to the Forsaken who had a pampered
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: life growing up.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: But the current I said, I don't feel that way
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: to me at all. They feel very pampered. They haven't
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: had to struggle very much at all.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: First of all, that's just your opinion, bro. And also
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: she was talking about the White Tower as an institution, right,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: that's when she goes full Omorland versus Forsaken, and she's
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: speaking for the collective might of the Tower.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: But we talked about how many of these I said,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I just live in their ivory tower and don't interact
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: with the people and don't do the things their odd
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: jobs should be doing. Right, Like there is a moment
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: when I would say the tower was great.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: It is not currently When was the tower great?
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: After the last battle? There was a moment. I mean
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: they talked about how when it was full and how
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: it was full full of iceidy and like.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: After the last battle in the future.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Or oh sorry, after the breaking So when.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: It was a like weird gold rush camp on a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: sandbar in the middle of a river that they were
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: putting together and it took them like three hundred years
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to build it.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Why are you there's a time when it was full
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: and off full of ice? Ad Eye were like, was it?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Did it?
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Did it actually? Or was it always just trying to
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: pull itself together after the breaking of the world, Because
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I kind of imagine them as having always been trying
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to climb back to greatness. It's just been shit show
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: after a shit show since the breaking of the world.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: But the way they talk about it's declining the way
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: it used to be. They there was more is said
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Eye that they are declining from something where they were bigger,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Like that's just a given. Like it's like you're talking,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: you're like arguing about the expansion of the universe, being
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: like it's it's expanding now, so it didn't you know,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Like you're saying it didn't used to be smaller, Like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: of course it used to be smaller. It's expanding, right,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Like same thing with the White Tower. It's contracting, so
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: it used to be bigger.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that doesn't mean that they're less good at
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: kicking a pampered bitch like Massana and the Teeth. Yeah,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: like they're not pamp I mean they're pampered, but like,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: as I'm saying, their knowledge base was growing through adversity,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: where Massauna comes into it thinking she already knows everything.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Like that's the argument that Agwayne makes, and it works,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And Andrel's making a different argument here because I have
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: very different timelines, right, these guys have only been going
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: for two months, but still there's a different focus, right,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Masana came from a world of electricity, and Agwayne knows
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: how to start fire from foot and steel, right, so
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: he's kind of making a similar argument here. Yeah, I
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: just I don't know if the White Tower. I feel
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: like it was built to be bigger than it ever got.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Well, they always add room for expansion, but it was
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: huge during the Trollec Wars, right, it was this massive institution.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: You know, there were whole wings and kitchens as Mihof
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: is saying that that have been shut down and closed
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: off since then. And they fought the Trolley Wars, right,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: They were actually out there fighting in the Trolleck Wars
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: for one hundred years, right, Like that was when they
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: were forged in fire, but that was a thousand years ago,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: two thousand years ago. Ardur hawk Wing was a thousand
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: years ago. And then they just huddled behind their walls
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: until he went away.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: The Black Aja was formed at the end of the
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: track Wars, Yes, is that? Oh, well, that might explain
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: it a bit then, like.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: During the Trollic Wars, Yeah.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It was doing good until he managed to get that going.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And there is this just there's a cycle of like
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: over over a thousand years, the world builds up and
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: builds up and gets more powerful than the trolk Wars happen,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: and the bad shit happens, right, and then builds up
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and builds up, and then Arder hawk Wing happens and shit,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: bad shit happens. After the hundred Year War right, Like
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: that is a history of things get better and better
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and better, and then they get worse because Morgan pops
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: out of his little hiding poll and goes fuck you
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: and like you know, crushes the world a little bit.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: But it seems like every time the world doesn't do
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: quite as well, Like the Breaking almost completely broke us,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: and then like we came back and we like really
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: came back after the breaking and things were doing really good,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: and then the Tronk Wars really broke us, and because
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: we didn't have those reserves, like the world really really
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: broke even more. And then we've crawled back, crawl back,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: crawl back, and now like you know, this is sort
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: of a last chance to crawl back, and they're hoping
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: to really put that nail in the coffin, and with
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: things like Rand's Innovations, schools in the cannon, we're actually
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: gonna come back even harder. And we're just going to
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: keep that train going all the way up. It's gonna
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: shoot up, and right we're gonna end up in another
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: age of Legends again. But after every thousand years, the
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: world was broken even more, kind of like someone drowning, right,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: they come up just a little bit less every time,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: and the dark One was trying to drown the world.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: He's holding it under, you know, He's the weight tied
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: to its foot.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like that where we get to Mordon
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: later with his whole weird dream shard tentacles in the
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: water thing.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. No, And what I would argue is that
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Agwaine is really talking about the institution of the White Tower,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: not necessarily the individuals of the White Tower.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: That's what I was arguing. That's specifically what I was arguing. Okay,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: though I do think Fouji's kind of right that to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: an extent, Egwin kind of gasses herself up to the
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: point of absurdity about the institution of the White Tower.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: It just works because the world of dreams is that malleable.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Because she believes the White Tower is that important. She's
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: actually using the delusion of a new recruit and like
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: the the hazing rituals that got her involved, and she
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: doesn't know all the like. It would never work for
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a more experienced ameerline because she would know all the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: dirty secrets and all the sacrifices and all the compromises.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Another reason why she should have gotten together with gallad. Yeah, yeah,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: a seasoned cynical realize that I would never have the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: blind faith in the institution that she does.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the real thing that beats Masana is just
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the stupidity of youth. Year old.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: We were just talking Earli about how it's important to
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: trust the experts and know your limitations. Also, sometimes don't
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: because it will allow you to crush the brain of
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a forsaken Apparently, sometimes unreasonable confidence in yourself is actually
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: what saves the world.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Listen, an under underdeveloped frontal cortex and a cocktail of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: hormones can really, you know, save the day every once
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: in a while.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: It's true, it does happen.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Why do you think all the heroes in fantasy stories
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: are like sixteen to twenty right, like.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Because thirty year olds want a nap in their back hurts.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Oh god, wait till you have forty.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, yes, my spouse being in his
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: forties and working on fixing our front porch and just
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: one little catching himself from falling off of a thig,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: and now all kinds of muscles are contorted all through
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: his back.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: It's just.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Good times.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: I am happy and lucky that my job involves physical
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: movement without being a brutally haard physical job. Like I'm
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: on my feet a lot, I'm walking a lot, I'm
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: squatting a lot. I'm moving a lot, but I'm not
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: necessarily lifting up incredibly heavy weights or doing a lot
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: of repetitive motion. I do have to contort myself into
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: some odd angles every once in a while, but that
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: keeps me flexible.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as long as you do it, you know, evenly
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: on both sides.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Not at all all. Right, Where were we?
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: We are at the moment where Candler says the dragon
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Reborn abandoned us and fuck him, and Lamar and says, nah,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: he leaves leaving us alone because he trusts us to
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: take care of our own stuff.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, that's why. Not that he forgot about you.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Both of those are massive overshoots of erceptions. He has
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: neither abandoned you nor made a decision about you. He
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: just kind of lost you between the couch cushions. It
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: wasn't even a choice, It just kind of happened. I
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: guess at this point he has kind of chosen to
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: abandon them, But the abandonment started very unconsciously.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. The John Han meme move, I don't think
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: about you at all. Like, the Black Tower's out there
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: being like, what did you do to Why are you
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: treating us like this? He's like who what? I uh
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: oh right? The Black Tower, Yeah, I should get around
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: that anyway.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Avienda right, right right, and then Pavari says, the Black
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Tower has fallen into shadow, you know, kind of like
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Tamani's being Camlin has fallen. It's the troalixes now. And
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: then Andrew comes back with the Black Tower barely the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: ink is barely dry on the Black Tower. The Black
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Tower is a dream, The Black Tower is a concept.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: The Black Tower is wherever two men get together and
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: definitely aren't gay but have power.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why there's the rules about the circles.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And then we get this very interesting chunk of andrel backstory,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: which is one of the big pieces of he can't
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: be that young, this whole story about the Knox Rebellion. Yeah,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: and it's like this story would make sense if he
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: was sixty, but it makes no sense if he's barely
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: even thirty five. Basically, he was an instrumental part of
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: a very brief but successful in that brief period of
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: time rebellion and Mirandi. That went great until it got
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: completely smushed, and somehow he escaped with no black marks
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: on his record and no scars of hanging or arrest
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: warrants across international borders or anything like that. But he
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: does have on the ground in depth stories about how
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: it all went down.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: It's because he can insta travel, right, Like that's how
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: you can escape anything. He just does it physically somehow.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: It's like his need to travel, his desire to travel
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: gets him out of these situations. He's thirty, he's thirty
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: years old, approximately thirty.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: And this happened approximately ten years ago. So I mean, yeah,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: it's not impossible that a twenty year old was very
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: involved in a short rebellion that didn't last long but
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: had a really good moment. It's not impossible that a
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: twenty year old was involved in that. But this is
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: one of like fifteen different things that he did in
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: like a ten year period. It's just like, I don't know, dude.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Then he also traveled with the AMR. He also did.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, yeah, just getting two enough of
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: those places takes the better part of those ten years,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: much less doing the things. You know.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he just sort of rolls into a town
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: in Mirande, is instrumental in a rebellion, and when it
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: gets put down, he just bounces and goes off to yeah,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: learn about c folk and whatnot. It's part of the
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Andral doesn't make sense thing. But it's you know, this
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: short little story about a despotic overlord getting thrown down
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: by the farmers he was abusing until the larger powers
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: that be decided that they don't like the rabble taking
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: their fate into their own hands.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Essentially, I understand what he's trying to do. He's trying
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: to say. Andral is constantly traveling, right, he encounters these things,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: he gets involved for a couple of months and then
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks even, and then goes on to
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: something else. And as part of those travels, he travels
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: with odd people. So maybe you know, when he's traveling
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: from one adventure to another, he ends up with the Athlamier.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: So I understand why he's putting all these adventures in there.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: It just feels like too much. It just feels like
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: too much sometimes.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I don't understand the point of putting this little story
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: in here.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: It all.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I much prefer the like half finished comments about sea
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: folk and stuff. I don't see what the point of
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: this rebellion is as a vignette.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get why he's doing different vignettes. I
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: don't understand. I mean this one just one's a traveling one,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: one's a war one, one's a you know, bat.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: It just feels like he gets presented as like, well,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: here's a cautionary tale for why it's good to overthrow
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: your lord. And it's like this isn't that. I don't
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: understand how this is supposed to. It's just like a
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: little many mice against one big cat. We can do it.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: But it just doesn't feel connected.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Well because because in the end they're like, oh, didn't
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: it just kind of fail? In the end, he's like, yeah,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: but we won't fail. And it's like that feels like
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: did he learn a lesson from it and he knows
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: how to do it better this time? Is that what
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: he's trying to imply that this experience basically lets him
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: I've made my mistakes and now I can be the
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: person that was meant to be here in the Black Tower.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: I think he's what he is. What he's trying to
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: say is like that rebellion didn't quite go right, and
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: now I can do it right. Except there's no he
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: doesn't say why.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: That's not what he's saying, I know, And it's not
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: like what he's saying. He thinks he's saying is that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Tame doesn't have loyalty. But you don't need a whole
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: story about how you're the hero of rebellion to make
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the point that rot from the top doesn't make for
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: a good structure. Mm hmm, I don't know.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in the end, many of the mercenaries
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: who had been his crony stood with us, but.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: That won't happen here because they're being magically turned. It's
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: just the story doesn't seem to have any relevance to
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: what actually happens. Agreed, but whatever, it shows us that
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: he's a strong, heroic man with a strange and veried past.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: The return of Jane Fearstrider.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right, the Chane Frestwrider's unacknowledged illegitimate child.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: He didn't even know that he left a baby in
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: that village behind. But then he gets to turn around
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: to amar And and say, oh, by the way, I know
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: who you are. And then Amarin's like, you'd be good
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: at the game of houses. Andrew's like, well that one
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: time that I almost did, I screwed it up anyway,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: never mind not talking about that. And I'm just like,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: are you randaw Thoor? You just roll into a town
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: and people start inviting you to parties and you burn
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: them and then everyone like sets they're sitting on fire
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: because I want that dick, like, what is happening with you?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Because that places him Kyrie inn right, So it's another spot,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, Like, just traveling between all these
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: different places that he has to have had these adventures
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: would take most of the ten years because he doesn't
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: have He never had traveling, right, Like our timeline sped
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: up massively once our characters got traveling and he didn't
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: have that. That's the whole point he's learning. He went
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to the Black Tower to learn it so he could
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: puts me around the axle.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It is definitely winding me around an axle.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: What they vote him in charge and he's like, I'm
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: just you know, Logan's lieutenant. I'm here to support him,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: kind of the way Lane was when Agwayne was out.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Of town, except without the undermining.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, without the inner mining. Right, he's got to bring
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: these people together and rescue. And again, do I think
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: this would be better if it had somehow been Logaine
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: in Pavara? Yeah, I don't think you needed an Andral.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I think you can replace every word here and be like,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I understand you're trying to rescue him, but
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: you could just be rescuing a bunch of the men
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: who are being held.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: What about the women and children who have no capacity
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: to rescue themselves and aren't even valuable for turning, And
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: so you'll be lucky if they don't all just get
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: killed for thuckin'dar blades.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Like right, Well, I mean my assumption is the women
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: and children are allowed to continue just to keep up
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: the facade that these men haven't been turned.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the three remaining men that haven't been turned,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, I just yeah. There are different ways to
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: make the stakes here, but for now, I think we're
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: ready to go to Mogedian.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Oohoo, the dark side of the Force.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a dream shard, it's more than it his
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: moodiest it's Mogedian basically near the end of her rope.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: For desperation.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the dream shard's cool, right, platform of stone floating
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: in the middle of an open sea with a bunch
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: of peace people drowning in the sea, being dragged under
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: the horrific like fire and water and brimstone and death
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: and sea creatures and drowning forever. It's kind of beautiful
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: and horrific at the same time. A pretty good dream shard.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the concept of a dream shard, I feel like
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: was only just barely hinted at with what Jordan did.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: He's like, Yeah, there's bubbles and pockets and strange things
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: in the dream that we're not even going to really
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: talk about because we talked about vacuoles, right, those existed, And.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: No, we talked about dream shards quite a bit with Jordan.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Oh we did. Yeah, we just don't get the name
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: until Sanderson that's what it is.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. I thought dream shards were
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: a thing that was pretty well understood because we talked
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: about like the dream shard is kind of where I
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: think that is Shameel and ran fight, right.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't think we got the term for.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: It, maybe not till Sanderson.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: But like it's obvious that dream shards were a thing
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: that Jordan had thought about and was using.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Don't believe someone side saying it's not much until gathering
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: to they know Sean Mael used them all the time, right,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Like he's constantly in dream chart whenever he's he doesn't
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: alter the real world of dreams. He's just chilling in
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: dream charts. And I think I've talked about how I
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: think he like that's where he's able to go in
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: the thousand years in between, and like he's able to
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: come out every thousand years, And that's why I think
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: he's in the dream, for he's like out in the
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: dream for a little while before he's out in the
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: real world. But yeah, I guess I didn't realize how
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: much E. A. Sanderson sort of formalized those, yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Because it's just so obvious that they've been there the
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: whole time, right, right, So it's easy to wreckon the
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: word backwards. But yeah, I'm pretty sure he's the one
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: that gave us the word. But yeah, it's very cool.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: It's very trippy, and Mugedion is in a place of
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: being on a slightly longer leash than when we've seen
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: her before, Right, she's able to choose her own clothes, right,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: she chooses how she appears, and she gets to wear
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: her crossover around her neck. She is in possession of it,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: which means she can choose when to channel and if
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: to channel, and she has a tiny bit of her
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: own agency. But she's still on a short leash.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Because she's been punished at this point, and so she's
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: gone through her punishment. Is that what's going on with her?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, she's done well enough in her punishment that
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: she's been allowed to have her mind trap back Right before,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: when we saw it, Morden was wearing her mind's trap,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: so she couldn't you know, channel near it, and she
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: was always dressed in red and black. Now she's dressed
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: in black and gold, and she gets to wear the
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: coursover herself. So she's being given just the tiniest touch
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: of leniency after being put extremely in the doghouse.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: What has she done though? Why is she is just
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: that she's been obeying. Well, that I didn't really understand
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: is like, why is she out of the doghouse and
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Sindane is still in it?
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I think because Morden needs them. I mean they've been
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: running around doing courier stuff and not getting in trouble.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: So if he needs extra hands on deck, then you
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: know that would be My guess is that he just
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: needs her to do stuff.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: So Saramonosaya saying the dreamshard is actually first mentioned here
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: the word real memory light. Yeah, oh, I.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Would have sworn it wasn't in earlier one of the
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: same Samon books. And yeah, Avouji, you're right that Krosover
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: is gonna be a problem for her as demane, right,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: because that's what happens to m'geddion at the end.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: She thinks, oh, maybe everything's cool because I survived the
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: last battle, and then she gets collared. So the Korsuvra
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: plus the caller is gonna be a time.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird. I don't really understand what the
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: kusu Ra gives them. I mean, obviously you can kill
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: somebody by crushing it, right or make them a mindless zombie.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: But before you crush it, I guess you can't they
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: can't channel. That'll be interesting if yeah, you can't channel
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: near it, so they take it off of her and
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: then tell her to.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Channel, then she'll just like shred her soul from her
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: body or something, right, or they're going to figure out
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: that this one Demani needs her particular little chunk of
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: jewelry in order to uh do the thing, and that
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: you know makes her some extra weird pet of the
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: empress versions of that way. I don't know, but yeah,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: it's going to be complicated. Maybe they'll just kill her.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: That'd be probably good, all right. So she is thinking
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: about how this is a new War of the Shadow
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: and they're going to do way better than last time
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: because their enemies are ignorant.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Right, which is such ridiculous, Like there's so few of them,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: they've all been killed like this, this arrogance is still there.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: This is where like I do feel like it would
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: be nice to see a little progression and be like, God,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that these ignorant savages have whittled us down.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Like that sort of thought I think would be better
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: than we're still going to beat them because they're ignorant.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the eye of the world level arrogance is like,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: come on, you've had your teeth kicked in, like at
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: least like get new material to be disdainful with.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Right, Like you've been kept prisoner for months by these
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: people and you've given them a lot of your secrets.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: They are not primitive anymore.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've got the water bond, they've got involuntary rings. Right, Like,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: you've been impressed. You're allowed to be pressed. You've been impressed.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: She does notice that Morden's been acting strange. I think
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: that's because of his bond to Rand is becoming stronger. Right,
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: It's like he's being influenced by Rand's personality a little bit.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rand has a level of cohesion that is
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: almost more insane than what Mordan has been expressing in
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the past.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Like, she says that the punishments that he's been administering
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: has seemed almost routine, and she finds that more unsettling
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: than when he's like fully in sadism mode.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's because he's not getting the pleasure out
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: of it anymore. He's he's got some of these emotions
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: of that Rand is experiencing. There's this like in the
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: way that Rand was feeling very bad and about himself, Right,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: he was very darth Rand. Part of that was the taint,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: but part of it was like he was feeling Mordin's emotions.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: You can think a Mordon Shawmel is a guy with
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: just like severe chronic depression, right, like who has uncontrollable,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: untreated medical depression, and the dark Lord won't let him die.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: That's why when she's like, I don't understand why he
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: was never punished. His punishment was being brought back by
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: not being allowed to die.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, he's being punished. He is actively being punished.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Just by being here, and so yeah, that feeling, and
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: so he's not really into the torture and the nihilism
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: anymore because Rand's getting in his head is sort of
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: how I see it.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rand is at peace. Rand doesn't need to
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: hurt people to feel something, right.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you got like more than just being
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: very contemplative and like, yeah, he's still doing his job,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: but he's not really into it anymore.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Right. He still has violent, miserable fantasies, but they're more
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: detached and clinical than they used to be. He's less
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: into it, and he's more like disassociating almost from his
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: own evilness.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Right. How do you do the opposite of someone being
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: corrupted by depression? You know?
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Right, like insidious creeping optimism?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Right? Wait, do I actually enjoy life? Should I? Pay
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: for the things I've done.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, that's kind of relatable, transitioning from I
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: don't know what I'm feeling to maybe I.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Feel good enough drugs. There are kind of drugs.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Enough, treatment, enough altering of the things that are perpetuating
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: those other habits and routines and structures in your brain
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: and life and soul. Whereas Mughettion is still just mussed up.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: She's like, she smiles when she sees all these people drowning.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: It did her good to see someone other than herself suffering.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, cannot relate to that. Have never I've
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: never looked at someone having a bad time and said, ah,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: at least my life is at least I'm in charge
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: of that. At least my life's better. Like, no, when
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I see people suffering, I just feel worse.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's what reality shows are, and that's why
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: I hate watching them, because people watch them to be like,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: at least I'm not suffering the way those people are suffering.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: And that's Allagedion thought. That's what that is.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: And it's not like there but for the grace of
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: God go I. It's more like a Nina n a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: nine or it's not a gratitude, it's not a twisted
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: gratitude thing. It's this weird like punitive glee or something. Yes, Athlon, Yes,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: the Dark One invented reality TV head Cannon accept it.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: And we get the whole He lays it out that
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Morden killed Landfear to let her out so that the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Dark Lord could re incarnator in Disindine, even though we
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: knew all that because of Moraine's POV. Yeah, we get
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: that all spelled out here, thank you, Sanderson.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: And then that's the whole description of the drowning people.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: And then we get to hess Lum and her introduction.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Which to me is sort of the full circle of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: the Grendel the monster, right, because you're introduced to Grendall
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: this beautiful woman, and you're like, wow, you're really subverting
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: the trope. And then here Sandersen is like, no, actually,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: she's going to be the ugly, hideous monster that she's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: going to be described in in the Tales of Beowulf.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: This is where you get that Grendel.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I remember reading these books like, oh, Grandall,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: that's a cool name. And then eventually a couple of
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: years come across BeO Wolf. You know, I watched this
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: weird like live action turned into animation CGI like version
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: of it. It was very weird. It's just like a
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: random movie that just showed up one day and we
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: watched it. And yeah, Grandall was not a beautiful bux
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: and blonde.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I was. I was so confused about that. I was like,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: why is Beowulf not a beautiful woman? I don't get it.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Right, not even like in a siren or a silky
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: or like any kind of like, there's no beautiful woman
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: anywhere in this myth. I do not understand same in
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: the slightest but yeah, to have it come full circle
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: here where at the very end she gets turned into
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: a bitter, disgusting monster, it's like, okay, I mean I guess, yeah,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: legends do fade to myth and the forgetfulness happens when
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: it happens in the cycle, right.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: And you forget about her being known for as beautiful,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: but she becomes is the ugly, hideous monster, which is
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: exactly what she didn't want to happen. And that I
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: like that full circle. I like that her becoming hideous
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: and that's what gets passed down to us through the ages,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: when all she wanted to be known about. Was her beauty.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: It's it's twisted, it's twested.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if that was initially intended, if that
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: was in the notes. That's one thing I'd like to know,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: was Grendel's transformation in the notes.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, i'd like to think so, because the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: name does have such a deep root in English lore,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: Like I would like to think that he was like
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: each of the Forsaken are you know, named for a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: cardinal sin or evil legend, and so there has to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: be like connections across their entire beginning, middle end of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: their arc that ties into that in order to be
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: good world building.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: And for most of the rest of them there is.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Right right, it feels like for sure. So and also
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: it's really funny that, you know, Morden's like, don't call
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: her Grandall, She's not allowed to have that name. And
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, again full circle, like we all
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: know the name grandl as an ugly monster, like the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: name Hesselum didn't stick. She gets to keep grand All.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: That part of her legacy manages to persist.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: And again it's also something that Jordan would never do
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: that Sanderson always does, which is Sanderson always says, don't
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: call her this, her name is that, because he wants
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: you to associate those two names together, whereas Jordan always
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: would put the one name over here with one description,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: and the other name over there with that description. You
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: have to connect the fact that those two descriptions are
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: of the same person, and they're actually describing the same person.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Right, And the only clue is like a particularly dirty
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: look shot from one character to another, and like that's
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: your connective tissue.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: That's it, exactly exactly. And so yeah, for me, I
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: want to be the person who spoils this book, not
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the author. He thunder, He really is our thunder, my
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: thunder specifically.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you who started the podcast after he finished. Yeah,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: he stole it from you.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: They stole it, all of it.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: And after Hesselam we move into there's so few of
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: us that we need to make a new chosen. But
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: we don't need a female new chosen, only a male new.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Chosen, not only one.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: The sea would stick in my cross so much less
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: if it was Leandren and Time walking in together. Here's
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: the new pair. Here's our new salt and pepper set
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: to add to the mismatched China you know, more people
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: would have been even great if they'd been like, here's
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: another ten. But I can see why they didn't because
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: that would be, you know, a power imbalance. But like
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: one male and one female would have felt a lot
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: more correct to the world instead of just time.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Even two of each I think would have been pretty cool.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Well, there's only four of them left, so I can
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: see them not bringing in enough of a population that
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: they are equal, right, because that's what Morden says. It's
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: like there are four of us, so I can see
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: them being like, well, we have to maintain the upper hand.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, from a dark one perspective, like bring another
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Baker's dozen in.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: You know, aren't there five? Right? We are four? And
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: the one who has punished most. Because it's morn in
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: the mandred Mugeian Sindane Haslam.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Is that the one who has punished most?
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I think so? Or is that Sindane because she still
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: has the casuvra. He still has her cassuvra. She's not there.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the one who's being punished most.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: That we four are here, Sindane's not there. She's the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: one being punished the most.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, yea leander kind of shited the bed. But
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: didn't They all kind of shit the bed in Someway Taim.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I guess its shited the bed least of all the
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: modern evil magic users.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, at this point, they've all kind of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: you know, the thirteen Black Aja who went up against
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: the women are pretty.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Much all fucked except for Leandrin.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Where is she right now?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I thought she was, Oh, I'm thinking of Yeah, I
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: know you're right. Leandron is fully knotted up with Suros. Yeah,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: but now Suro's been taken out of power, so we
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: don't even know what's happening with Leandrin. But you're right,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Leandron is unable to channel anymore. Galina is unable to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: channel without Thava's permission.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: M hmm.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Al Viren is wandering around with the dark ones mark
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: on her forehead.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Al vi Aren might be the one. I would assume
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: it could be one.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe I was confusing Leandroid and Alvren because.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think Leandering got punished.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: And yeah, Alvirn has the freaking dark thumb print on
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: her forehead.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she fights in the last battle. You know what,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: but you just make her forsaken, right, She's she did
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: a lot. She broke the tower, right, you could say
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: she was a big part of that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Like, also be a great visual to have Tayam in
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: all black and al Vrn and all white walking into
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: this room as the nude.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: Chosens as the member of the Black Tower in the
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: White Tower who each came. Really, Yeah, I think I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: think Alvirn makes the most sense for sure.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think it's really weird that only Tayan
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: gets elevated. If it had been Tayam and Alviren, I
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: would not think it was weird. But alas we get,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: which is just such a dude sbag name for a
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: chosen honestly, But I.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Get way they struggled. There's been a lot of really
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: fucked up blacks who haven't gone anywhere, Like they've really
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: just been they failed. They've gone up against our main
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: cast and gotten just smacked down.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, maybe they should stop killing each other every
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: time anyone makes a mistake, and then they'd have more
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: candidates to work with.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, Millie Skin might be like a really good forsakenest.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah if she could channel.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah she can't channel, but like, yeah.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: Which is a requirement, right, because I don't think you can.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's the way he controls them is through
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: the access to the true power. He's like a drug dealer,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're completely allergic to the drug in question,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: you're not really a good customer. So yeah, we get
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a hint that Demondred and Tajim
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: have history. Really trying to put the tam and dread
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: rumors to rest by saying no, no, no, they just know
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: each other. They weren't potentially the same person. We're seeing
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: them in the room together. They're definitely different.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: But look where they've put the men. They've got Mahil,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: the leader of the new dread Lords, demandrad who will
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: we will know his harvest in bushels and droves, which
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: we know is the shine arns. And you've got Sharans
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: the Yes. And then you've got Jean Mael himself issue
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: himself right, who's the male?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you all three of the men are these
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: like elevated doing really well, and the women all being punished,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: all being controlled.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Men are in charge and women just can't be allowed
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: to be in charge of anything. It's just even on
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: the dark side, the patriarchy is accurate.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Especially on the dark Side.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, women are just incompetent and men should be in charge.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Obviously.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Boo.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: It is there is just this treatment of the men
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: and the women differently, right, the men are killed, the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: women are imprisoned.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Or enslaved or enslaved. Yeah, it's the beginning of the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: end of us feeling like there's anything good happening with
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: the evil people on us las. Yeah. The Demondred insists
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: that he will be the one to kill LTT, you know,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: thus stealing his fate as a Land's victim, right, because.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: He just instead of Actually, I really do think he
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: would have won the last battle if he hadn't been
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: focused on Rand one.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Hundred percent, one thousand percent. Demondred deciding to just you know,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: one on one with Rand is the reason why the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: dark Side lost, as simple as that. Why is he
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: so obsessed with this one guy? I don't know?
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: And so they assigned Momgeddi in to look over one
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: of the armies that now now lacks proper monitoring. Which
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: army is that Shan Chan Shawn Chan, Okay, because.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: That's where we find her, right, that's who min uncovers,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: who's doing the manipulations of people's heads and having lost
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Samarog right, So again, that's why he needs Mugeddion, That's
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: why she's on a slightly longer lease, just because he
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: needs to give her slightly more Alegian order to make
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: her go monitor shan Chan well shan Chan on the
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: side of the ocean, not sean Chan proper.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: And then I think we get I like this cool
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: quote at the end. The last days are upon us,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Morden said, turning his back on them. In these hours,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: you will earn your final rewards. If you have grudges,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: put them behind you. If you have plots, bring them
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: to completion, make your final plays for this. This is
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: the end. Good way to sort of bring the prologue
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: of the last book. I think that relays an appropriate
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: little paragraph, like we're done with grudges, We're done with
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: side plots, we're done with side quests. This is the
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: this is the last battle. This shit's going down.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no last twist, there's no fourth act. This
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: is the fourth act. We're here, we're doing it. And yeah,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: don't bother trying to have any more cards up your sleeve, Like,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: shake your sleeves out, get all the cards out now,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: because this is it.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: And I think that's appropriate too, for like when you
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: were reading this, like there was this moment in real
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: time where we were unsure if we were going to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: get this book. Yeah, and I feel like this is
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: speaking to that a little bit big time.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: It's this is the end. Gird your loins. Yeah, loins
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: must be girded.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, gird your loins and look forward to chapter
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: one next time.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you all so much for being here. That
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: was a three part prologue. And yeah, next week we
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: read the paragraph for the last time.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: For the last time, A wind arose for the last time.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what we're doing. We're here now, we
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: have prologued, we're all warmed up. It is time for
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: a Memory of Light to get underway. So get your
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Patreon bids in now. I'm going to leave the picture
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: on it forever. Don't worry about that. But if you
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: want us to read your name out on the podcast,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: you have only a few months left in which to
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: do that, you know, less than a year. And we're
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: going to not be adding new names to theisodes because
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: there won't be new episodes.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: And we should definitely read out Patreon names at the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: beginning of the next the beginning of the book.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: With the paragraph oh yeah.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: That's a good place to always read them is with
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: the paragraph.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I should have done that a couple of weeks ago,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: but oh well, we'll do it next week. We'll do
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: it next week.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: I always think that's a good place because people when
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: they want to listen to us, I think people dip
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: in and might like start their book on, you know,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: oh sure, yeah, and so the most likely I don't
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that early episodes,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: probably in each book, probably get more listens than later ones. Totally.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Well, we have one last time to run this experiment.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: I'm getting way too nostalgic about this, me too.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, everybody.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll see you all next week. We are
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: on today, part three of three for Getting Through Memory
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: of Light, the prologue.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: I expect this one to be about the same length
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: as the last one, which is to say, not the
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: longest recording. Yeah, agreed, we probably could have fit all
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: these other ones into one episode, but it would have
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: been a big, bulky episode.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we kind of had to choose if we want
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: to round up or round down, and this time we
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: chose rounddown.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Well because tom Monis fits so well together and it
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: was sort of going to do one pew of and
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: then six povs. I kind of want to do one,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: three and three.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as we get through the book, we are going
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: to end up getting closer to six over time, but
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: we're savoring the intro.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: And I think some of those povs are a little
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: bit shorter, Like some of those povs end up being
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: like less than a page in the as the book
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: goes on.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, these are pretty big.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some battle scenes where he's popping' pop and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: popping between various characters and you only get page maybe
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: two of each, right, And man, I looked at some
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: way to line them up and do it in some
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: way that was cohesive, like I did with helm Honus,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: and I don't see anything that's really lends itself to
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: doing it that way. Maybe some parent stuff later on.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: That was my best because it's kind of separate from
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: everybody else and he's kind of in the dream. But
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: I don't really think that works. I think it works
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: better in situ.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, there's it's put in the order
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: it was put in with the power of many people
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: thinking very hard about it. I don't think we can
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: reverse engineer a better way casually.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: There's no it's not like, oh, we can do it
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: in reverse time because it's in reverse perspective. Or it's
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: not like we can pull one character out like we've
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: done before. Or it's not like we can take these
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: things that are clearly out of order and put them
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: back in order, right Like, none of that is the
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: case in the last battle. It's all just switching povs.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Many things happened at once.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. I mean, who knows, maybe we'll
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: find pockets where that works. As we're doing our notes,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: as we moved through the book, we're like, ooh, for
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: this chapter, I want to do it in this order.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: But there's no way to predict that at all.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and I've already, like I said, I went through
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: and kind of looked at all the chapters and wrote
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: a little summary and looked at the povs, and nothing
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: popped out at me. So they usually pop out at
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: me when I'm doing it in that way. That's my
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: little first draft, very rough outline of how we're gonna
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: do the episodes and by having to write a little
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: summary of each chapter. It helps me, Hey, remember what's
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: in the books, right, because there's a lot right, and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: then be just you know, an understanding of how much
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: you know, a big understanding of how long it's going
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: to take us to cover it. You know, is this
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: a chapter I think we're going to blow through quickly?
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: Is it worth combining with the chapter next to it
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: because it's similar content, you know. So I spend some
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: time before each book going through and mapping out how
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: I think the chapters are going to go together. And
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: I think we were initially just doing it on the fly,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: but then it was like, you know what, we should
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: actually plan this a little bit. And so I think
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: since like Path of Daggers, we've been planning it out.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we learned as we're getting into this final book,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: all the lessons are coming together. We're applying every bit
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: of hard earned wisdom over the course of doing this
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: whole whole podcast. Oh that reminds me, speaking of all
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: ten years. We got a really nice email yesterday at
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: the Fox and Raven media email address, and I was
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: frantically hunting for it today in the watch Spoilers email
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: like oh, like I wanted to talk about it briefly
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: or make sure you've seen it, and I couldn't find it,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, how did it vanish? It was in
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: the Fox and Raven media.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I missed that.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: I forwarded it to our email, though I've responded to it,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: but I forwarded it to our email, And yeah, we
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: just got a really nice email from someone who has
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: been listening to us since the beginning but has never
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: reached out, because you know, being on a computer is
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: not fun. Just listening to us is fun. And it
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: was just really sweet to get this emi, being like,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: I've been listening since the beginning, and I thought I
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: should reach out now that you're near the end. And
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: it's just it's a nice reminder that there's lots of
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: people who are listening to us and appreciating us, who
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: we don't interact with directly, and even after nine and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: change years and anticipating the full ten years, they're still
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: just chucking along with us, silent lurkers, making sure to
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: listen to the episodes. It's just really cool.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: I'm just reading it now because I didn't say it. No,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: that's very sweet. Getting those kinds of emails mean an
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: awful lot. It's kind of crazy to think that I've
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: put ten years into this. Obviously not the whole ten years,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: but doing something every week for ten years feels like
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: a big accomplishment.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And making something, making something, making something, making something
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: that is reaching other people, yeah, and helping them deal
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: with small things or big things.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the reason it feels like such
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: a big accomplishment is because I had only like a
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: very small portion. It was everybody else out there who
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: pulled together, including you right who stepped up when the
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: podcast needed a co host, and all the people who
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: out there who' support us on Patreon, and all the
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: listeners and all the letters we received, and all the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: people who came to Spoiler Con and helped plant and
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: all the people who have just done so much for
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: this podcast to get us to where we are now,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: you know, and the mass effort that is involved and
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: having something like this be made from start to finish,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: and how wonderful the wheel Time community has been through.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: The whole thing is just it's humbling. Sometimes it's humbling.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's very humbling. You're just doing your little
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: thing and your little corner, and you realize you have
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: a whole team of people behind you and in front
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: of you.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: And oh and not to mention, god, doctor Pant's doing
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: the art and like all the people who contributed to
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: the art, and John l Jen did so much to
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: help with this early podcast and make it happen, like,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: you know, he's spent hours and hours and hours doing
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: a first pass edit on a bunch of those episodes
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: when I was doing the editing, like John, you know,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: huge shout out to John. I just yeah, gosh, to
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: even you know, the people who took a risk and
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: played a D and D podcast with me and made
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: a podcast out of it, right, Like, It's just it's been.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: A long journey.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: It's been a long, long journey from start to finish,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: you know, to the to the show being announced, to
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: the show coming out, to the show being what it was,
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: to the show getting canceled. Yeah, like so much has happened,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: so much.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Idol is still strong that I don't know if I'm
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: going to manage to get anything into it this year
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: because creativity go whack, right, But it's still happening, right,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: It's like year five or whatever.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we put in at least one maybe two
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: good submissions to watt Idle you and I.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Every single submission I've put in has been absolute gold,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: and it's a crime that I have not won every
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: single year.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Some of them were really bad.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: Shut up Bohemian Rhapsody as an opening ballace.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know that brilliant, No, terrible.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: So certainly I can look back on some things, not
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: with regret, but with chagrin perhaps.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh, Athlon, you're putting your first submission in this year,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: that's very exciting. Yeah, I got to figure out something.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: I got to figure out some half baked, quarter baked thing.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just as we're approaching this last book with
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: all the nostalgia, it's also really nice to look out
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: and remember all the things that have got us here.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: And yeah, getting that letter was just very late.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: Ice.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are so many people who are in that
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: boat who aren't writing us a letter. Please write us
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: that letter now that we're on our last year of
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: the show. Make us cry on air, do it?
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: I dare you, because because there's so many people I've
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: met through discord and through the cons or who've just
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: been here in Portland or I've you know, just had
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: conversations with, and I think of that as the fandom
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: because that's why I get to interact with. But then
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: I know from the numbers there's hundreds of more people
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: out there across the country who I have never had
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: a chance to interact with.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: Across the world, actually.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: World, yes, sorry, that's shouldn't say the country, that's ridiculous.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: It's the whole world. And I'm always astounded by how
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: wide the reach was, Yeah.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: For sure. So anyway, with all that mushy meandering out
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: of the way.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: Down by some talented editor or something that's pretty.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Good, we can actually get into a Fienda Androl and Mogedion.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app, and
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.