Latest / Authentic Living / Discussing Mental Health Issues in the Workplace with HR Expert, Yvonne Nasri

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Discussing Mental Health Issues in the Workplace with HR Expert, Yvonne Nasri · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we conscious conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Everyone, thanks for tuning in.
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  Again, it's Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Today, I have a colleague, Yvonne Nazareth, and, Yvonne, thanks for so much for taking the
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  time to come on the show.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  So to tell you a little bit about, Yvonne's background.
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  I recently was a privilege.
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  She ran the very first, DeSop Niagara, which was a phenomenal success, and I was really,
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  really, so proud to be invited, to come and speak.
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  And it was an excellent event and looking forward to a whole lot more.
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  So, Yvonne's a founder and chief, human resources officer for victory and and company
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  and a partner with disrupt HR and Niagara.
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  She's a dynamic and innovative, executive with a head for business and a Hartford community.
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  Of strategic leadership, energy resources, and operations to work with leaders to build great
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  workplace cultures through talent, acquisition, total rewards program, and high performance
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  coaching.
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  She believes in supporting the community, and she's the vice of the Niagara Community Legal
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  Clinic Board of Directors, and HR advisory for bathroom housing and support services, which I
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  know a lot of, with my psychotherapy background.
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  She's you attended as a university strategy.
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  Is that the proper way to
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  say it?
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  Yes.
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  And Innovation Executive Program and is in the Niagara College Business Administration,
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  graduate.
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  She's recognized as the top 40 under 40 professionals in 2016 and nominated for
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  Community Leadership Award in 2018.
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  And you're an explorer, which sounds fine optimus and an infinite thinker.
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  So you've obviously done a lot in EHR.
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  So let's let's talk a little bit about, obviously, you know, I talk about, mental
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  well-being and resilience.
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  Yeah.
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  So I thought today, we would spend some time.
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  And now that I see that your, involvements in the community, that would make so much sense
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  with Bethlehem place in types of things.
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  So, of course, mental health is, always a hot topic and it's getting hotter as we go So tell
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  me a little bit about some of the, you know, the things that leaders should be considering
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  when they're approaching let's say, a wellness program from a mental health perspective?
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  Well, I think if we're going to be looking at introducing wellness programs into the
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  workplace, which I think everywhere should, really, that you need to take a holistic
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  approach.
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  So it should include things like mental well-being and support services.
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  It should include things like financial wellness, and other sorts of things.
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  I mean, obviously, nutrition is a big part as well.
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  For wellness programs, but there are other factors that do support a person's overall
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  mental well VA, such as financial counseling as well, which can really put pressure on somebody
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  and how we can support their mental well-being while at work.
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  There's so many benefits to doing that for an employee.
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  That, it definitely needs to be in place.
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  I think there's a lot of resources out there in the community.
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  Including people like yourself and others who really have a lot of insight to offer employees
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  and leaders as to how they can approach these conversations.
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  To to support and encourage their employees.
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  So let's talk a little bit about that whole concept of when you hear the term, mental
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  health, people often go to the kind of the subset of people being very ill.
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  And what we know at the workplace, most most times within the workplace, most people are
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  functioning relatively well, but they have a lot of pressures.
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  And, I worked, as a consultant with an employee assistance program for both 16 years.
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  And we knew what we knew is that 65% of the people regardless of sector or size of company
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  that were presenting presented with relationship issues.
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  Yep.
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  Absolutely.
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  And it oftentimes wasn't work related.
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  Right.
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  But that stress carries right through.
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  Right, into all facets of your life.
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  Yep.
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  So
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  And 5% would actually kind of be work around 5 to 7%.
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  It may have been trees now, it was really specifically work related.
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  Mhmm.
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  So if you kinda look at that, it's kinda like the concept that we bring entire selves to
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  work.
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  We all do, even though we kinda think, you know, we you park the I see your lovely kids.
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  Do you you park 2 of them, and then you kinda come to work, but if if somebody's not well or
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  if something's going on in the family or whatever it is, obviously, we we're
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  professionally enough to come to work and be able to fund However, those things are gonna
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  lag in our minds and maybe affect our ability to be as productive versus if things weren't
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  going on at home.
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  That's absolutely And so I think it's really important for leaders, managers, colleagues to
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  be able to create that, that safe space.
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  For their colleagues or direct reports to have conversations about what's going on and how we
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  can help them through that situation.
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  Them because you're right, it comes into work regardless of how professional we tend to be.
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  We are distracted if we are thinking about I just dropped off my sick child, but I'm here
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  for a meeting.
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  I'm not a 100% focused on that meeting if I'm thinking about my sick child, or whatever that
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  issue might be.
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  I've had a fight with my partner, whatever.
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  So I think although, yes, the fight is a personal situation, but we need to be able to
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  to allow that opportunity for people to have a safe place to discuss what they need to so that
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  they get the support they needed to able to, effectively do their job.
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  So talking about resources or tools are saying I need 5 minutes or you know, whatever that is
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  and not always having to give an explanation.
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  But just being able to say, this is what I need right now.
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  And I think that, you know, allowing taking that management approach and allowing for
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  people to feel that way that they can talk to you and that they can put that out there takes
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  a lot of that stress off an individual so that they can show up and be a 100% for you when
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  they are there.
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  So so there's some, obviously, some basic things.
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  Right?
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  EAP programs, which is employee assistance programs for people not knowing.
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  And EAP is just doesn't just cover psychological confidential services, but it
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  does everything financial, legal.
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  Could go, health coaching, all that stuff, which most employers, and I know the employer
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  that I came out to see you through has that, an overall service.
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  So kind of a given, I would think.
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  Compared to 20 years ago, when I was in the field, it was just kinda coming about, right,
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  and where people But now I would say that most companies, unless they're very small may may,
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  have, service providers.
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  Yeah.
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  What other things I often say, okay, that in isolation is gonna set up the company to fail
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  to some degree because if I have someone that's going off, Right?
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  Let's say that's going off on a stress related leave and you don't have the proper return to
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  work or you don't have, you know, you have the manager.
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  Let's say and goes off and she's, you know, had a stress related leave or a mental health
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  leave.
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  Oftentimes, managers, they're so good at the tactical, right, but the soft piece sometimes
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  becomes something that I know from, being in consulting that our management line would ring
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  off the hook.
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  Because people wouldn't wanna talk about the soft end to things.
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  They were afraid.
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  They're like, oh my goodness.
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  I'm gonna interfere with Roxanne's life.
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  What kind of things should leaders and companies be considering around that area?
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  Because it's good to go to HR sometimes, but not all the time.
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  Right.
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  And I mean, even as an HR representative, I'd always want people to be able to talk to their
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  direct manager first.
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  About the challenges that are going on.
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  I think it's, HR's responsibility to help managers to have those conversations.
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  So preparing them for that, talking about having, like, a real coach approach to
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  conversations.
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  We're not looking to solve Roxanne's problems, we're looking to figure out how can we support
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  Roxanne and give her what she needs right now.
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  How can we understand How can we take a little bit more perspective as to what she's
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  experiencing?
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  What tools and resources do we have in place to help other short term solutions that we can put
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  in place?
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  If we adjusted your schedule for the next few weeks, does that help you out?
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  Are you able to manage that?
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  Are there different tweaks that we can take?
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  So it's about that using the power of inquiry, to help guide conversations and find solutions
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  that work for everybody.
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  So I
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  think that's really where HR can help support frontline managers is by assisting them and
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  understanding what a true coaching approach to those conversations would be.
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  So would you say that managers feel a little bit more comfortable in 2019 having some
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  of those conversations compared to when you started in the field.
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  I mean?
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  Absolutely.
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  I mean, I can certainly see the changes that have come along.
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  Specifically with some of, you know, the, when I started out in my career, working with some
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  more senior leaders who at that time, that was like a No.
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  We don't talk about this.
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  That that stays out there.
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  We're not acknowledging whatever happens in the world.
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  All that matters is when you're in these walls that That's the only thing that matters.
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  And to see those leaders who previously have that mindset now sort of turn around and
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  understand and express it themselves as well as they experience things and how can we manage
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  this trust together.
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  It's really great.
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  To see that turnaround.
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  I think the ongoing awareness of why mental well-being is really important and how how it
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  affects all of us and how prevalent it is, and talking about it has really made a world of
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  difference in having people comfortable with those conversations.
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  Furthermore, I think the, the understanding of the prevalence of how frequently people in our
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  society are going through things has really increase the awareness.
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  People who are professionals in the field who are out there and advocating for the support
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  are making it a more comfortable station.
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  I think there's still sometimes hesitation from managers of fear of what if I say the wrong
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  thing?
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  I really think that probably this area thing is saying nothing at all if you if you see there's
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  a challenge if you ought to be aware that there's a problem with someone.
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  If you're seeing a drastic change in their behavior, in their productivity, in their
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  punctuality, or attendance at work, their levels of engagement.
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  It's our responsibility as managers check-in and say, how's it going?
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  What's going on for you today, and and try to dig deeper into to what's going on there
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  because the risk of disengagement or nobody noticing what's happening with an individual is
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  far greater than saying the wrong thing.
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  I think, you know, one of the things to say is, like, I heard this somewhere before, and I
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  think it applies.
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  The best thing you can do is say the right thing.
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  The worst thing you can do or The next best thing you could do is say the wrong thing, and
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  the worst thing you can do is say nothing at all.
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  So I kind of take that approach of if you notice something that's going on with someone,
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  Just have a conversation.
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  Say it.
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  See it.
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  Say it.
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  And I think, you know, it's interesting because I I often, you know, I talk a lot about
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  authentic leadership and What we know is that from the top flows down, right?
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  So if your senior leadership is as equipped as can be, to understand and I often say, like,
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  shoulder to shoulder.
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  Like, if there's a bit of a vulnerability, right?
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  Like, if there's something that's, you know, not sharing the whole gamut of maybe what
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  someone's been through.
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  But to recognize, let's say you're going through a a merger or an acquisition and
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  there's a lot of tension and there's a lot culture change and shifts and policies and
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  procedures and amalgamating to stiff stems.
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  Talk about the pinnacle of stress.
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  Right?
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  Right.
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  So for the different levels of organization to really kind of come together, not just once to
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  maybe discuss what might be like, but to touch base throughout the process and show that it is
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  equally as difficult for the person at the top as it is the person delivering the service.
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  Absolutely.
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  And that is something that I think has probably been misunderstood through the years is that,
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  you know, the stress might be different.
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  The experience might be different, but it doesn't remove the stress.
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  People as move people move through these experiences.
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  Right?
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  So more about talking about it, finding the solutions, removing any barriers to to having
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  that that mental health and and getting people the the support that they need.
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  So that's that's very important.
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  And what we know is, you know, kind of de stratifying the silos so that it people can
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  kind of recognize that senior executives and middle management and frontline.
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  They're all having the same issues, but their their accountability levels are a bit
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  different.
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  But communication piece is so key.
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  Right?
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  It is.
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  Yeah.
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  And it should be part of any effective change management processes to show what are the steps
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  and who's involved and what are we doing?
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  Because, you know, you can find solutions from anywhere, and people are gonna have different
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  ideas.
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  But as long as we all understand that we're moving through things together, I think people
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  feel that stronger sense of community and, that they're not alone and that you're there with
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  them and that you want a solution just as much as they do and you wanna get to that.
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  That positive end state?
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  So let's talk a little bit about, you know, I know you do a lot of, HR consulting, So if a
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  company is kind of, let's say, they have the basics, right, and they've been struggling,
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  with maybe maybe they've they've seen an increase in, short term disability claims
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  around mental health.
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  And maybe they have the EAP, you know, they obviously we all have you know, sick days most
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  companies have that, but they don't have a lot of other things maybe in place.
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  What are what are of the things that you might be speaking to an employer about in reference
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  to getting a strategy in place for for mental well-being.
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  Well, I think, you know, depending on what the organization and those roles are, there's other
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  options that you might wanna look at such as, flex time or remote work.
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  Sometimes that can go a long way to help somebody with whatever they're going through.
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  We'd also wanna look again at both are we having, excuse me, are we having proper
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  coaching conversations, or how are we handling these, Pam Griffiths, Mutual colleague of hers.
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  She calls him courageous conversation.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  So how do we enter into those courageous conversations with people, to figure out what's
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  going on?
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  So again, coming back to that true coach approach of of speaking with people to find out
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  what's happening because, again, one of, I think, the the the things that I see most is
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  that fear of saying the wrong thing.
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  We don't have to do a lot of the same.
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  We just have to create that space and ask the questions.
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  And allow somebody to work with us on creating the right types of, right kinds of answers for
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  them.
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  But, also, I'd wanna look at, you know, what is what is going on in the organization?
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  Is there major change occurring?
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  Has the role changed?
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  Is there a greater demand from the consumers?
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  What are the factors are coming in that it might be putting some pressure on this
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  individual or in group of individuals.
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  Is it time then that they change the work sometimes they need to add more staff.
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  Burnode is a huge a huge, thing that I think in this day and age as well with the constant
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  availability on our mobiles as we move through our day, no matter where we are, we're
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  accessible.
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  Burnode is a huge thing.
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  So we need to make sure as employers that were were responsible for staffing, our
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  organizations appropriately, and also, you know, setting those boundaries and saying it's
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  okay to have boundaries.
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  Maybe we say there's a policy of, you know what, no emails after 7 PM.
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  Mhmm.
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  And let that be a a designated time of there's absolutely no work unless the building's on
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  fire.
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  You're not gonna have to hear from us.
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  Right?
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  To allow them to turn off and fully disconnect.
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  I think that that is a huge thing in organizations, particularly in support and
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  management type roles.
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  Where that that comes into play a lot.
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  Because oftentimes you hear people say, I I I didn't leave the job.
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  I I I left a difficult or, a contentious situation with a manager?
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  Yes.
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  Exactly.
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  Right.
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  So it shows you the pivotal role that a manager plays, right, because if I think I'm in it, you
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  know, regardless of what I'm going through, with my employ, you know, with environment that
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  I'm working in, but I I feel connected, and and that manager is able to be empathetic to the
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  earlier this week.
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  I talked a little bit about empathy, you know, that's so very important and that's, you know,
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  gone are the days where we believe that, you know, you don't you can't learn empathy.
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  Right?
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  Of course, we know that that's possible.
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  So just that connection makes me think, oh, I feel not so good.
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  Things are stressful.
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  There's too many moving balls.
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  You know, doing a whole lot more with less, but at least if I could connect with my managers
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  that says, it'll be okay.
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  Let's figure it out.
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  What can we kind of, you know, off shelf to to go somewhere else or whatever, then it it it
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  gets a little bit, better to deal with.
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  Yeah.
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  You could kind of go on, to be able to to deal with things.
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  So definitely we go back to some of the core things again.
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  Connection, communication, say some thing.
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  Anything is gonna help.
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  I want to talk a little bit more about, engagement because I know that's an area that
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  you work a lot with.
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  And the importance of, attracting the right people and what kind of things, again, keeping
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  in mind about those elements that people want to come to environments where they can be
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  liked.
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  They feel like they're able to kind of, give be important and part of the, you know, not just a
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  business metric, but that they they're making a difference.
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  Absolutely.
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  Can we talk a little bit about engagement and kind of some of the things that employers need
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  to be thinking about especially with all of these concerns that we're talking about, being
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  mentally well at at work.
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  Sure.
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  Absolutely.
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  So again, a lot of mental well-being goes around feeling like you are making a difference
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  like you belong to a community of people and, that you have that meaningful work.
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  And that you are able to make that positive impact to whatever it is that cause is.
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  I think it's really important for organizations to really know what their brand is and what it
• 19:29
  stands for.
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  And to share that a lot, in the, like, I talk a lot about employer brands.
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  So who are you as an employer?
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  Not just what are the products you sell, but what is it like to work there?
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  What do you value What is, you know, what is your cultural norms?
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  What are your expectations of me?
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  And so to be able to say that upfront as to, you know, what it is you expect from someone
• 19:54
  within the organization, how they're going to to contribute can make a big difference.
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  It also helps you the right types of employees also.
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  And then when you're in the that interview process to really figure out How do we
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  communicate?
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  A lot of HR individuals focus solely on the core competencies of a role.
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  And, you know, behavioral description interviews are great.
• 20:19
  They have a they have a very good point.
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  But you also have to say, how am I going to talk to Roxanne?
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  Tomorrow when I don't have this interview guide in front of me, can we have a conversation, and
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  learn about what's meaningful to you?
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  How do you like to work?
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  What's your what what do you like?
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  What kind of management do you like from your your leaders?
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  And figure out if there's the right fit that way also.
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  So I think right from the the the hiring point is where it becomes important.
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  And throughout that, the the employment, I it's, again, that continuous check-in, what are
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  your goals, how let's set some clarity around these things.
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  When people are, aware of what's expected of them, most times they will rise to that
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  occasion.
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  They will do their best to anyways.
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  And again, so long as we're treating them right, and respectfully and, being inclusive.
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  And again, leaving those values that the employer brand has suggested that we do.
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  It will very much help deepen that engagement and that sense of belonging.
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  Employees who feel like they belong within the organization and that they're providing
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  meaningful contributions to the organization are far more engaged and likely to succeed.
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  And again, that's very driven from how that relationship is with their managers and that
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  level of support and togetherness throughout challenges.
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  So I'm curious.
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  What kind of questions might you ask to figure out fit?
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  Because there's one thing like you said, the behavioral traits are one thing, but Yeah.
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  Intuition and Malcolm Gladwill talks about this.
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  Right?
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  He talks about thin slicing where you kind of have a sense of people generally relatively
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  quickly.
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  Yeah.
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  So what kind of things could let's say a manager is kinda sitting in with HR or whatever
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  to kinda get a sense of that person.
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  Well, I think, you know, you really have to you you have to ask some questions that are just a
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  little bit, unscripted sometimes.
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  So really listen in to what the person saying throughout the rest of the interview and pick
• 22:26
  up on it.
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  Be prepared to just slide in there and ask, an unplanned question.
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  Really show that you are hearing that individual, and see what it's like.
• 22:37
  Right?
• 22:39
  And, you know, that way too, I mean, oftentimes, candidates come and they have a
• 22:43
  pretty good sense of what type of questions are going to be there.
• 22:46
  So they've almost scripted their responses.
• 22:49
  As well.
• 22:50
  So to kind of interject with a few, oh, tell me more about that, or how did you feel when that
• 22:57
  happened?
• 22:58
  Or, you know, how else would you if you were to do this again, what would we do differently?
• 23:05
  Or, you know, that's not really a very good sample for that one.
• 23:07
  But, you know, but really kind of picking up on it and asking them very pointedly, tell me
• 23:12
  about the type of of work environment that works best for you or you know, what are the
• 23:18
  what are the kind of, what things are you looking for in your next employer?
• 23:23
  You know, and allow them to say what's important to We know people always want money.
• 23:29
  They're usually looking for more money when they currently are.
• 23:33
  Not everyone.
• 23:34
  Some people are are are happy with what they're earning, but, you know, the money and the
• 23:39
  promotion opportunities are usually top of of people's list as to why they wanna change
• 23:43
  employers.
• 23:44
  And that's well and good, but we need to talk about the culture itself.
• 23:48
  What what type of people do you like to work with?
• 23:50
  How do you like to communicate what kind of recognition do you like to receive?
• 23:56
  How do you provide recognition to others?
• 23:59
  Things like that.
• 24:00
  Right?
• 24:00
  So just kinda getting into a little bit more non job specific questions.
• 24:05
  Just like the right fit for how you're gonna relate to the person that you need to report to
• 24:10
  say daily or or weekly or those types of things.
• 24:13
  Yeah.
• 24:14
  Yeah.
• 24:14
  Make so much sense.
• 24:15
  And then if, you know, based on I often say that any of us put it together for 45 minute
• 24:20
  interview, but really the reality becomes when you have to actually deliver at the job, and
• 24:26
  having that manager involved is so important in the interview process too.
• 24:30
  Right?
• 24:30
  Or some of your teams, I know with some of my positions that I've held, they've actually had
• 24:34
  a couple of people from the team that I'd be joining sit in.
• 24:37
  Yeah.
• 24:38
  You know, some newer, some a little bit more seasoned, the the manager that I would port to,
• 24:43
  and it really, you know, was ineffective, for me anyway as the, interviewee to kind of get a
• 24:50
  sense, but I'm sure it also gave them the opportunity and I was in, you know, a situation
• 24:54
  I had stayed for for 10 years.
• 24:56
  Yeah.
• 24:57
  So Yvonne, so this is all very fascinating.
• 25:02
  So, any any last words about, just wellness that you might wanna share before we let you
• 25:08
  go?
• 25:08
  And I also wanna know, the where people reach you if they're looking at strategy, if they're
• 25:13
  looking at engagement, or different things in HR.
• 25:16
  Okay.
• 25:17
  I think overall my thoughts on wellness is that it needs to be a priority for all of us.
• 25:22
  As leaders and organizations, we do have an obligation to, you know, demonstrate ourselves
• 25:29
  also that it's a priority for us, because we set the tone for the rest of the organization.
• 25:34
  So, make it a priority for yourself if you are a leader in the organization support others in
• 25:40
  taking part in that, and create fair work practices that allow people to disconnect, and
• 25:48
  also to you know, to recognize their contributions regularly.
• 25:52
  Though, those steps will definitely help people in supporting the mental well-being of their
• 25:57
  staff, on an ongoing basis.
• 26:01
  For anyone who is interested in reaching at me, you can visit our website at victory and co.ca,
• 26:08
  or you can email me at yvonne@victoryandco.ca.
• 26:12
  And I'd be happy to touch base with anyone.
• 26:14
  Well, thanks so much for being with us.
• 26:16
  So I guess what I'm walking away with and which is most poignant is, say the right thing if you
• 26:22
  know what, say wrong thing even if you don't know what you need to say, but say something.
• 26:26
  And that's so very key because as we know, when we bring our full selves to work, and we all
• 26:32
  want to do a really, really good job.
• 26:34
  And as you know, when I speak about authentic leadership, so it's about recognizing that you
• 26:39
  can lead within yourself by demonstrating the qualities that you wanna receive back, whether
• 26:45
  you're the CEO or the frontline person, dealing with the so for anyone, needing more
• 26:50
  information on me, I'm Roxanne Derhodge.
• 26:53
  I'm on a, a keynote speaker and a coach and a trainer.
• 26:57
  Okay.
• 26:57
  Take care.
• 26:58
  Yvonne.
• 26:58
  Thanks so much for your time again.
• 26:59
  Thanks for saying take care.
• 27:00
  Okay.
• 27:01
  Take care.
• 27:01
  Bye.
• 27:05
  Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive, healthy change.
• 27:10
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and co To work with Roxanne, visit
• 27:16
  rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 27:20
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.