Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 453. How to Harness Innovation to Scale Meaningful Impact (Replay) - Evan Feinberg

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453. How to Harness Innovation to Scale Meaningful Impact (Replay) - Evan Feinberg · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, this conversation really stopped me in my tracks and I'm really excited to relaunch it to you today.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We talked to Evan Feinberg.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: He is the executive director of Stand Together Foundation, and the way that they think about impact is just so right.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of times we can get hung up on the metrics, we can get into counting and it gets us off of asking the right bigger questions about how are we actually solving some of the biggest systemic issues that our world's facing, and so I am so excited for you to listen to this conversation and hear what you think as we dive in to how to harness innovation and scale your meaningful impact.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Non-profits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the good community.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We're non-profit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabbit fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Hey, Becky, Welcome welcome.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: You know we always play like seven degrees to Kevin Bacon, but it's all roads always.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Becky always has a personal connection to everybody and this happened again today.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I'm getting like super good human vibes and I am very excited to talk about the things we're going to talk about.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: And guys, buckle up, because this non-profit mission is going to just explode your heart and make you want to get activated.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: And this is for all type of listeners.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: If you're a business brain, I think you're going to geek out.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: If you just want to see the grassroots organization thrive, this is a conversation for you too.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So we are so delighted to have Evan Feinberg today on the podcast.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: He's the executive director of the Stand Together Foundation, and whatever you're doing right now, go to their website and get lost in it because it is absolutely amazing and, as you kind of peel back the layers of what this organization does, they're committed to breaking the cycle of poverty and communities and they're doing that in a really entrepreneurial way by finding the grassroots leaders, the organizations that are doing that well, and they're working to replicate, to put them on a platform, to learn from them, to grow from them.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: It's all the values that we talk about on the podcast.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: They're living them out all the time and so this conversation Evan's going to kind of talk us through a little bit of their strategies with that share, some stories of how it came to be.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: But he is just a really accomplished guy that is doing incredible work and I can't wait for you to fill in some of the gaps.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So welcome, evan, to the podcast.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for being here.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of the podcast, an avid listener, and I think what you guys are doing is so important for our sector, so it's a true joy and privilege for me to get to be a part of this and get to talk with both of you and pick your brains and learn from you and hopefully share some insights with your listeners as well.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm geeking out.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's helpful.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Evan, would you kind of walk us through your journey, what brought you to really serving with this organization now, and kind of tell us a little about your personal life too?
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, from a very young age I decided I wanted to try to change the world somehow and I feel like I was sort of ambitious as a high school kid.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: And when you're a high school kid you want to change the world, you're sort of drawn to public policy and politics and the laws of the land, and so that drove me to sort of study political science and really begin thinking about sort of the principles and conditions that drive human progress, and so that led me to work at a think tank and then work on Capitol Hill.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: You mentioned I worked for a couple of different senators.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: The real highlight was working for Senator Tom Covern, a physician from Oklahoma, who was just this incredible guy.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: You know, a lot of folks in Washington are there for the wrong reasons.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Tom Covern was there for all the right reasons.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: He befriended people from across diverse backgrounds, experiences, across the political aisle.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: He was a good friend of Barack Obama's, despite being a conservative Republican from Oklahoma, and he just inspired me sort of what you should be like if you're a statesman and a leader.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: But frankly, I spent that time and I left Capitol Hill thinking that most politicians weren't like Tom Covern and so I ran for Congress myself back in my hometown in Western Pennsylvania.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: That's got to be the story First millennial to run for US Congress ever Wow.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the wow factor kind of wanes when I lost 63.37 in the primary.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: But it was a great experience.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: We're proud of you.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Thank you, it was very kind, it was a great experience, but ultimately I learned through that whole experience that, while politics and sort of that debate is important, it's not what makes the world go round.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I really don't believe that the rules of our country, of our states, it's not what makes the world go around.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: What makes the world go around are the principles, beliefs, paradigms that we have, the norms, beliefs, expectations that we have of ourselves, of one another, and that culture is what really matters.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And, frankly, there's a lot more opportunity for collaboration and agreement and shared progress when we focus on culture.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: And so, through a whole series of events after that, I found myself helping to launch Stand Together Foundation, this effort to really transform the way we think about the most significant problems in our communities and how we transform what I would call the institution of communities in a way that will help more people to live up to their full potential.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: So that's what I'm all about now, wow.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So cool.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Thank goodness, paul, you found your people in nonprofit and social good.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Come over to our space.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I just I love this, the way that you have poured into your passion, and it's always a winding road when you're on that journey and it's like when you're looking for purpose, you're likely you're never just going to run toward it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure that you've had so many learning experiences in this.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: But I want to talk about the Stand Together Foundation and the Catalyst Program.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, what you have built here is so aspirational and I love that you're using social entrepreneurs to activate on this mission which is so huge, which is breaking the cycle of poverty, and I know we have a ton of lifters who have deep passion for this exact same issue.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And so would you talk a little bit about how Stand Together was set up, what the goals were and how you are actually activating today?
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: So Stand Together Foundation is.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: It's part of a broader philanthropic community that's known as the Stand Together community of business leaders and philanthropists who want to stand together to help every person rise.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: And what are those conditions of human flourishing?
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: And a number of years ago and I was a part of this to launch this effort basically said look, what are the problems in communities?
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Why do we have persistent poverty where, unfortunately, social mobility in many ways is on the decline in America, which is sort of a new thing for our country, and we've got so many efforts, we've got a million and a half nonprofits in the human services industry.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Why is so much, so many efforts going into helping people to transform their lives and break the cycle of poverty?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: And yet the problem is somehow getting worse.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: And really what we came back to is the principles and the paradigms in our communities.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: They were off.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Frankly, the majority of efforts in our space and I say this with a great deal of sort of humility that you know I think it's probably not your listeners that are part of this problem, but I think it's worth all of us considering the prevailing approaches to solving problems in communities, knowingly or unknowingly, or to treat people that are experiencing problems, people that are in poverty, as broken and deficient and in need of top down, outside expert help to solve their problems, to fix them, and so, as a result, even the very well intentioned efforts out there are making sort of human suffering less, they are making poverty easier to endure, but these efforts are actually making poverty harder to escape, and so, frankly, we're treating poverty as a resource problem to be mitigated, when it's not that right.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Instead, people are not problems to be managed.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: People are assets to be unleashed, and so poverty is actually an innovation problem.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: It's a problem that requires people to discover new and better in different ways to unleash the latent assets, the incredible potential that are out there, and individuals that, for one reason or another, injustices they face, problems they face in their lives.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: For one reason or another, people are disconnected from their highest contributions, and so poverty, if it's an innovation problem, you have to look in completely different places for how to solve it.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: You don't look to experts in Washington DC or philanthropists that have studied the problem quite a bit.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: You've got to look to social entrepreneurs that are discovering new and better ways of unleashing human potential, and, frankly, those social entrepreneurs are not where people tend to look.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: They are folks that have experienced the problems themselves or have taken some firsthand risk in their life to get close to the problems they're seeking to solve.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: They're trying new things and they're finding success, and then that success needs to be replicated, learned from that needs to be iterated upon by others.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: This is the social sector we need, but it's not, unfortunately, the social sector that we have today, and so we've tried to lead the way by finding these innovators, giving them a platform, helping them to have stronger management approaches, stronger measurement frameworks and really more robust vision for what they can accomplish.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: And then we want to tell these stories to everyone that can listen, so that we can drive some real transformation in how people think about people and how to solve their problems.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is a thread of conversations we're having in season four which I just I love.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: It's like it's not solving problems with the way we thought about them maybe 50 years ago.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Just throwing money at something's not going to solve it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: But it's this human aspect and it's really going deep and looking at the creative ideas and the entrepreneurial ideas of people that are experiencing it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: So I just really appreciate how y'all are approaching this.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Could you kind of use a story or an organization to kind of show us this in action?
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I just I look at y'all's website.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: The organizations y'all work with are just all so mind-blowing.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Like you can talk about one of them.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: So is one that's kind of a pet favorite of yours, or something that you can kind of just express this of how you do this tangibly.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Well, there's so many favorites, and hopefully I'll get to share a handful of these stories, because I've learned far more about this work directly from these incredible leaders than I could ever share with your listeners.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: But maybe one of the groups that I think is a pretty great place to start is a group called the Phoenix.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: It's a peer-to-peer addiction recovery effort, and so you start with the problem of addiction, and the majority of people out there, knowingly or unknowingly, think about individuals experiencing addiction as broken right.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: They think of it as a deficiency.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: They're focused on the problem.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Even if they understand it as a disease, they're still seeing it as a deficiency, that people have Something that has to be cured.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And so, as a result, we take all these top-down approaches right.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: One, we incarcerate people for their addiction.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Two, we treat drugs with other drugs, which is often a life-saving treatment, but it's not solving the underlying problem.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: We try to solve it with clinical treatment beds, which there's not enough treatment beds in the country to really address the 20 million Americans that we know of their experience in addiction, or the 20 million more that are in recovery, that are, frankly, very likely to relapse at some point.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And so the Phoenix comes along with an entirely different approach the idea that the resilience and strength to overcome addiction is within each of us and that the way that we can tap into that resilience and strength is through safe and supportive community and the need to be part of that community, to belong to that community.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: And so their peer-to-peer physical fitness approach has a third of the relapse rates as some of the best clinical programs in the country.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: But, more importantly, people that are part of the Phoenix become better than well.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: They're just.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Their story of having overcome their addiction and being in recovery is part of their identity and something they can share with others.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: And so it's really this incredibly powerful organization.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: When we met them, they were trying to open up a few gyms across the country.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: They were serving about 4,000 people per year.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: We've helped them to transform their strategy around volunteer led chapters and partnering with other gyms.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: So now they've gone from 4,000 to 40,000, from three communities to now close to 60.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: But the real goal is to get to a million members of the Phoenix within the next four or five years.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: And the goal for getting to a million members is not just because a million people is a lot of people and we want to transform a million lives, though we absolutely do.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: The real benefit of getting to a million is it becomes a tipping point where everybody in the country will know someone that's participated in the Phoenix and tapped into this resilience and the power of community.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: And for us that's so exciting because, look, I'll share just personally for a second.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I think he'd be okay with me sharing this story.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: My brother-in-law has struggled with addiction and for a long time we as a family didn't know the best way to come alongside him.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: You hear interventions and tough love and all of that stuff, and in many ways we just were at our wits end for what to do, to be there for him as he was caught in the cycle of addiction, and he's now 16 months sober, which we're really just proud of him and excited for him.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: But there's no way that I would have known how to engage productively but for I knew my friends at the Phoenix who taught me so much about what my brother-in-law needed right, what we could offer as a family, as his friend.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: And so it's not just the Phoenix's programming that matters, it's changing the prevailing mental models and mindset of what people are capable to begin believing in people again, and so I'm deeply proud of our work with the Phoenix, and it's one of 213 groups that we work with around the country.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Certainly a very special one, but I can tell lots of stories, just like it.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And the mental image of a Phoenix.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like the word of that.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that story.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And I just think the way that the foundation is set up, the Stand Together Foundation, is so smart.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I am seeing and I'm John and I you just sit here and you talk to people.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: You're seeing that for profit is over here.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Non-profit is on the other side.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: There's social entrepreneurship, maybe in the middle it's crossing over.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yet on this you know paradigm, we all need each other.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: And for profit needs to understand how we connect with people, how we make them feel really great about giving and about building community.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: We need to learn how for profit gets their messages out.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: We need to understand how to get something in front of someone to scale.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And you have taken the social entrepreneur, who is right in the middle, and you've taken the best of for profit and nonprofit and put them together.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And I want to repeat something you said that I think was so beautiful Poverty in itself, any problem that we're facing, it's not a resource problem.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: People are not problems to be managed.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: They are assets to be unleashed.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So if you have a growth mindset, an abundance mindset, where you're not looking at throwing money, throwing money at a problem, you're thinking about how do I take this problem, get into the thick of it, meaning sitting down.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I love the peer to peer on the Phoenix, understanding what the heart of the issue is, what someone is feeling, what they're going through.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: It is going to allow you to iterate that thing so much more succinctly.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: And the last Bravo I'll give to you, evan, is that the last thing you said is we give them frameworks and then we tell those stories.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: That is right there, the secret sauce.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Wherever you are in the world listening, if you're a nonprofit, get your frameworks, get your people mobilized, get into the guts of it, listen and then tell those stories.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: That is where community is unleashed, it's where activism is unleashed, it is where passion is activated.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I am just loving this conversation and I will stop talking and let you get a breath in here, evan.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Well, as you were talking, I was just thinking about Sean from the Phoenix.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: So Sean is an incredible guy.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: So I was going up to their gym in Boston and they were giving me the site visit as if I were someone walking in.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Their price of admission to their gyms is 48 hours, clean and sober, and so I was able to step into the gym that day.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: They treated me as if it were my first day at the Phoenix, and so within five minutes of coming into the building, they've got me strapped in to go up a climbing wall and a guy named Sean starts coaching me through it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I said have you ever climbed before?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I said once in college.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: And he said okay, so he starts giving me some tips and he coaches me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: I scurry up the wall, he takes me to a harder spot and helps walk me through some tough things and I get down to the bottom and first he says to me it's actually a special day for me, it's the 10th anniversary of my sobriety and people all over the gym immediately drop what they're doing and start coming over.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: There's tears, they're all hugging him and he tells me this whole story and a story comes in he had never done anything physical at all before.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: But he finds out right away on the first day he comes into the Phoenix and he's actually pretty good at climbing, he's a natural.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: So then he finds out that he's actually beginning to then coach his peers.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Like he's figuring things out.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: He's like, oh well, maybe you put your foot there and do this and starts coaching others.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: And he finds out that not only is he a pretty good climber, but he's got a gift as a teacher.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: He's really a great coach and teacher.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: And so you know.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Then he became a staff member of the Phoenix and started coaching on climbing and other physical activities.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Eventually he started training the trainers of their facilities all over the country and he now leads a lot of their program in the Phoenix nationally.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: And it struck me this Sean is not just great at what he does, he's the best in the world at what he does.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Because if you're coming in and you want to learn climbing and find community and overcome addiction, there's literally nobody in the world better than Sean at helping you through that process.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: He's been there, he's walked it, he has insight and he has gifts and talents to help you.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: It's absolutely inspirational to me that Sean is in the role that he's in Now.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Most philanthropy is not set up to help Sean do what Sean does.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Most philanthropy is set up to advance compliance to some evidence-based best practice that somebody learned in a college class or through some random control study which I'm not against random control studies, but they're R&D metrics.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: They help us to think about what maybe we should try and what's worked in the past, but they aren't funding social entrepreneurship.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Instead, we have to find those Sean's that understand their secret sauce and invest in them, understand the value that they're creating for customers the customer not being the funder, but the person whose life is being transformed and ask ourselves how do we get more investment in more people like Sean to drive personal transformation?
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Rather than did we get lower recidivism rates or higher graduation rates at a population or aggregate level Because we were complying with some random control study that we did 15 years ago that showed we'd get a lift if we did some two-generation approach or whatever else it might be.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: We're taking a quick pause to get real with you, friends.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Because, let's face it, it's a new world.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Donor expectations are higher than ever and donors want to know what their personal impact will be, which means we need to start by building a truly resonant message.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And if you follow, we Are For Good.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: You know we're advocates for nonprofits need to disrupt and adapt in order to grow, and our friends at Foster Avenue agree.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: You might know Foster Avenue by their former name, snavely Associates, but here's the thing they're evolving alongside the sector too.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: As a philanthropic communications consulting and creative agency, they see how campaign communications are facing a revolution these days and, luckily for us, they're sharing their insights.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: The Foster Avenue team is sharing a 10-point checklist for creating campaign communications that meet the moment, and we want to get this checklist into your hands so you can start refining your messaging right away.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Grab it today at fosteravcom backslashgood.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So, whether your campaign launch is three years away or six months away, foster Avenue can help you accelerate to the next phase.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: We want to see your campaign have all kinds of success, so I hope you will check out Foster Avenue.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: That's fosteravcom slash.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Good, I mean, okay, evan, we're kindred spirits on this.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: What you're talking about?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I just think what you're talking about specifically with lived experience and people going through probably the hardest thing, the thing they didn't want dealt to them in life, whatever that thorn in the flesh is, y'all see those people with the potential and activate and allow them to channel their passion, their purpose and do something super meaningful.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And this is a thread we're seeing in conversations right now.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: People are moving into this sector or this space because they want to do something meaningful with their life and I feel like y'all just kind of exist to activate that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, how does somebody get involved in this?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: If you've got this great idea, what is the steps for a nonprofit or this idea to get funded or to get supported with you guys?
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah well, we love for nonprofit leaders.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I hope that there are lots of social entrepreneur nonprofit leaders.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: When we say social entrepreneur, I don't mean someone that's doing something for profit or earned revenue.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: A social entrepreneur does is anyone who's taking any risk or trying to discover new things to transform the lives of others.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: That, to me, is a social entrepreneur.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: So if you've got any leaders who are listening, who are thinking that's me, that's my nonprofit or that's the nonprofit I want to start, we want to talk to them Now.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: When we're looking for nonprofits that participate in our programming, we're looking for folks that are already into it a little bit.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: They've got a clear vision for how they believe they can transform lives.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: They've got a sort of a leadership and culture that they're building that fits this rubric already.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: We're looking for demonstrated outcomes and we're looking for that wow factor, the cultural leverage that the Phoenix has, that if they're successful, they have this incredible impact on society more broadly, and I'd love to share some more examples of that soon.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: But if they fit that rubric, we want them to apply for our catalyst program.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: They can go to stand-togetherfoundationorg and apply for it and be connected to us.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: But if it's just generally a citizen or a person who's listening.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Our real goal is to build a movement out of this, and so we're looking for new and better ways to offer the things that we've learned.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: The frameworks that we help nonprofits apply to philanthropists or volunteers or just ordinary people who wanna engage in this way, and so we'd love to get connected.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: They can reach out to us through our website or on social media.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: They can certainly reach out to me directly, but our goal is to work with hundreds of nonprofits.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: We have some new programming where we coach and train philanthropists to think through this mindset.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: We are building some proprietary or not really proprietary some original measurement systems that we'd like to share with the marketplace, that we believe measure customer value rather than sort of these macro aggregate measures that we think might pull us off course Love to talk more about that as well, and so we'd love to work with anyone and everyone that just wants to make a bigger difference.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: This is why I'm on your podcast, because this is the ethos of everything that I've heard from you all, and so I'm really excited that you're cultivating a community that's thinking this way.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you are in the world like you stand together, foundation, because I feel like we've just spent a year going through understanding where is the sector right now, where are people's intentions and their hearts?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And here you are building frameworks, funding and empower.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: You're empowering the person who's about to empower the community, and so I'm just telling anyone who's listening right now if this sounds like something that your nonprofit is ready to do, if you have that spirit of being brave and not perfect and you can jump into community.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I just think this is the way that we see massive linear growth in some of our nonprofits, because we're learning things that are gonna take us to the next level.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: We've already learned a nice base about what major gifts are, what campaigns are, how to steward somebody, how to tell a great story.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Now it's time to take it to the people, get it a grassroots level.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just so excited.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I just hope there are many of you out there right now who are thinking I think this may be the thing for me.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So we want you to go check out the catalyst because it is extraordinary.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And I wanna tie it back to Sean.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for telling the story about Sean, because I visually feel like I can see him right now and I feel like Sean is such a great metaphor for everyone of how are we reaching to the point where we're making our missions vibrant for the one we again.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: We want these people to be better than well, whether they're in the poverty cycle, whether they're in human another human services issue.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: You could be someone who is in the top 1% of people you know in this country who have wealth but could be struggling mightily with a thing Our nonprofits need to be set up to focus on the Sean's and figure out how to pour into them to make a vibrant community around us.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Well, I 100% agree.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: And so, on this storytelling track, we have a show page on Facebook called Catalyst that I'd encourage everyone to watch.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: We do mini documentary type videos, you know, four to seven minutes, on a lot of our Catalyst organizations and there, if you just want your soul warmed right, Watch these incredible stories of people's lives being transformed.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: It's what gets me out of bed every day is these stories of transformation and what's possible in people's lives.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So I'd encourage folks to check those out.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: But it's the inspiration alongside the frameworks and tools and paradigms to do this at scale.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: So I want to give an example that we think really matters to get to that individual, as you mentioned, becky, we think that's measurement in the space.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned this a couple of times.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: We just think it's off, right.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: It's not that we don't care about how many people you've served, or services rendered, right Meals delivered, beds that people were able to utilize, et cetera, but those are counting metrics and if you treat them as value metrics, you'll measure how much of the problem you're managing versus how much of it you're solving.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: So, as a leader, you should care about those numbers and you should track them, but if you treat them as value metrics versus the counting metrics they are.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: It's gonna have you incentivized to do the wrong thing and, frankly, a lot of government programs will pay based on how many services you render, and I think a lot of our programs and a lot of philanthropists are paying for volume rather than value creation.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons why our sector is floating.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: But then there's this sort of movement in effective altruism and effective philanthropy.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of positives here, but it's toward these sort of aggregate macro measures that lose the individual in them.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: So they understand this.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: With R&D metrics or long-term outcome metrics, they're often the lagging indicator of the value you're creating, and I think they're valuable and they give valuable information to funders and nonprofit leaders, but they don't help you run your organization every day.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: You can't ask did I create value for Sean today or not?
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Did this case manager do better than that case manager?
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Is something going better at this site than that site?
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: You can't use those random control studies and five-year high school graduation rates as the measure for that, and so we've been pioneering some subjective well-being and other survey instruments transformation metrics to actually be able to compare apples to apples across the sector and give organizations real-time information, much like customer service businesses use with our customers.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And so we're using net promoter score and we're using life satisfaction scales and the Harvard flourishing the human flourishing scale that Bob Vanderweel at Harvard's been working on.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: And there's one question that's rising to the top and this might sound overly simplistic, but the simple question on a scale of one to 10, how much has this organization transformed your life for the better?
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: And we use it kind of like net promoter score.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: We subtract six and below as not transformed from nine and 10s as being transformed, and then we hold seven and eight neutral.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: We don't count, and we're finding that some of our best nonprofits are scoring 90% and above, which means almost everyone is saying nine or 10.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: My life was fundamentally transformed.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: That's what they say at the Phoenix or Cafe Momentum or Urban Specialists Versus.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: If you go to a food bank, you might be really glad that they offered you a meal, but no one's saying my life was transformed for the better.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: It's nothing against food banks, but it's helped us to really identify these social entrepreneurs that are having breakthrough success at solving intractable problems.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: So I think more experimentation is needed here.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: We're just scratching the surface of it, but it's an example of not only do we tell inspiring stories and draw people to personal transformation, but we're also trying to set up business strategies to deliver personal transformation on a regular basis.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I think this framework that you're teaching is incredibly disruptive, but it's so important.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: In the best way.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a lot of times throughout this conversation I just keep in thinking the words that you're using just capture the moment really well and I think even using the term customer really like transforming the way that we're thinking about the end of the day, who are you serving?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And we talk a lot of times about our customers almost like our donors, but truly it's like let's put that on the shelf and look at, like, what is the real impact?
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Like what does it really matter?
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: And I think this just drives to everything that has led up to this and so many conversations on the podcast is is your vision big enough?
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Is it really connected to doing the actual thing?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Are we so caught up in these other beautiful metrics that don't really matter how many people download the podcast doesn't really matter, but how many people change their way that they lead as a result of it?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I would live and care about that stat, absolutely.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just drinking that and you give us some advice for transforming to a culture like that.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And then this was not on our flow, but I'm just curious of like I would want that in our organization.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Is it the net promoter score?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Is that a good way to do it, or is there something that's real easy to implement of?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Like, how do you look at 2.0 stats?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: You know that you can really dive into.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah Well, for a podcast, I'd have to think about it some more.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I think net promoter scores and net transformation, so anything that's getting feedback from your customers, whether they derive a significant value from the experience right.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: And so if you're using downloads, I actually think in the podcast world, downloads are actually pretty, a pretty useful counting metric because it's a conversion metric.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: It's a little bit different than you know some of the services rendered metrics in the space.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: But if you stop there, if you stop just at downloads, you might get really high downloads because you invited the right guests on or, you know, you brought celebrities on, people who have got more followers than someone like me.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: But if your goal is to transform the mindset of the nonprofits, you might be okay with fewer downloads and inviting people like me on who are going to share ideas and frameworks, right.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: It would help you make the trade off between why you would ask a guest like me on versus a guest that has, you know, 100,000 Instagram followers.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: And I think you all, because you're so focused on the value creation, because your vision is big enough for what you're doing, you're making that trade off sort of implicitly, and I'd encourage organizations to make those trade offs explicitly through a clear vision, and I like how you said is it big enough?
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: But for us, a vision is not just, you know, your North Star.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: It's what capabilities do we have and who can we create value for and what are the ways that we're thinking about to create the most value for those customers and those opportunities?
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Then have you laid out your principles and values well enough.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I love that for your podcast.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Is it eight?
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: The Everyone Matters down through it.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you know our values.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you, yes.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's incredible, right?
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Because as soon as you lay out those explicit values we encourage every organization to do this you can then hold every word that comes out of your mouth, every person you bring on to be a producer, an editor, a guest, you can hold them accountable back to does this further these principles and values or not?
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: So we think that's really critical.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: We talked a lot about measurement.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Do you have knowledge processes that ask whether you're advancing your vision or not, and are you challenging yourself, even within your organization, right?
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Even if you don't have measures?
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Are you subjectively you know this is like free speech signals in our culture Are you challenging each other?
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Is this the best way to advance our vision?
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Are we making decisions against that?
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: And do we have the right incentives, right?
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Do John and Becky get sort of famous and paid more and everything because of the number of downloads, or do you seek the value?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Do you align your incentives in your podcast back to did you get the social change that you were going for?
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: And so we have a management framework we call it market-based management or a mutual benefit framework and we basically train organizations to apply those mental models, and the whole goal of it is, how do I unleash the ingenuity of every staff member, every volunteer, every donor, every board member?
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Unleash their ingenuity on the problem we're solving by having those frameworks in place, rather than turn my organization into an efficient bureaucracy that pushes out a program or an idea or whatever it might be.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: This is the revolutionary thinking that we're hoping people will start to move toward.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: It's not just about hitting the KPI, getting the minimum of what we need for our programs.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: It's about unleashing the ingenuity within all of us and pouring it into the mission.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And I think, if we can just get into that mindset of it's not about us, it's about Sean, and when we get up this morning, we've got to pour that ingenuity into somehow duplicating the Sean's of the world and replicating that experience for them.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: So thank you, evan.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: This is an extraordinary conversation and I cannot wait for the next one, which is tell us a meaningful story of impact, which is a hilarious question, because you've shared so many wonderful stories, but you're clearly just an amazing threader of story and what you do.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I wonder if there's a moment that just kind of rises to the top for you.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I have one from pretty much every single day of my life these days so I'll share one from last night I was in Nashville for the soft launch of the Cafe Momentum restaurant in Nashville, tennessee.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: So Cafe Momentum is a restaurant in Dallas, texas.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: It's staffed almost entirely by kids coming out of the juvenile justice system in Dallas and the magic of it is is that these kids who've been treated the literal term in the Texas juvenile justice system these kids are called throwaway kids, not because the system's throwing them away, but because people have treated these kids as throwaway kids, and the magic of it is they come in and they run the third ranked restaurant in all of Dallas and they're trusted to do it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: There's high expectations set on them and then supportive community and love to be able to deliver, and they run this incredible restaurant.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: So they've got recidivism rates that are a third of the one year.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: They have.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Only 15% of kids from Cafe Momentum ever go back to prison, whereas 50% of all kids go back within the year in Dallas.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: And so it's this incredible group and we've been working to help them open up restaurants in new cities for the last couple of years.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: The first replication will be in Nashville, the other in Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, later this year as well.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Couldn't be more excited.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: The NFL is involved in Nashville Football League.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: It's really exciting.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Well, we did a pop-up dinner in Nashville.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: The first time we ever explored going into new cities was a pop-up dinner at the NFL Draft in Nashville, tennessee, a couple of years ago, and there was a kid named Cameron who was there that night and he was on a bad path and Cameron had never cooked anything in his life and they did a three-day training to be able to run a dinner, for the mayor of Nashville was there and some NFL legends were there Hall of Famers and the head magistrate, the justice in Nashville, who does the juvenile courts, was there.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: And this kid, cameron, discovered that he had a love of cooking and he was great at it, and so he was there that night and he cooked and there was a restaurant tour in the audience.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: Who was there?
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: And he met Cameron and he offered Cameron an entry-level job at his restaurant, a high-end restaurant in Nashville two weeks after the dinner.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: So that's when I lost the story.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: I hadn't talked to Cameron or talked to anyone about this for a couple of years and last night Cameron was at this event helping to train some kids that were running a pop-up dinner to launch their restaurant in Nashville.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Cameron has worked his way up at that restaurant to be in a manager and a sous chef.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: He's 18 years old and he's making more money than he ever would have expected in his life.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: He's, by all counts, wildly successful and he found his calling in his life.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: He's training others and his transformation even last night I watched him transform eight to ten other kids who were right where he was just a couple of years ago.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: And that's just the beginning of what this kid can do.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I'm inspired by Cameron and I just know there are so many more like him whose personal transformation can drive societal transformation.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: And here's the thing about Cafe Momentum Once you walk into that restaurant, it's not just about the recidivism race once you walk into that restaurant and you eat there, you can no longer believe those kids are throwaway kids.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: You can no longer believe Cameron is a throwaway kid.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: You begin to understand what these kids are capable of.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: You begin to believe in them.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: We'll no longer lock them up and throw away the key.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: We'll start finding ways to unleash the potential of these kids and we'll all be better off for it.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Certainly they will be.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's my one inspiring story, I guess, for today.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, my word, this is your life, evan.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: How are you holding it together?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just like day after day.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like crying right now.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I know these stories are amazing.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here with such a full heart of gratitude.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Doesn't it make you feel good, guys, to know that a Cafe Momentum is out there?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Doesn't it make you feel good to know that the Phoenix is out there and to think that they could take these tools, these mindsets, this passion and have these kind of effects where you can go from a throwaway kid to a sous chef.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: This is the potential of what could be activated when we can pour into things that matter and embrace trying stuff, embracing innovation, embracing that everything can be iterated and made better.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: And when you come into a situation where you feel like I'm going to have humility and I'm just going to listen and then I'm going to figure out what the thing is to make my thing grow.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, I just like want to help more Camerons in my life.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you, evan.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: You know where this is going, since you listened to the podcast.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you're going to sum it into one good thing, but what's something you could offer our community that we could all implement today?
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought a lot about what is that?
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: One good thing, and frankly, the one thing that I think we've talked so much about but haven't named, is hope.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I have so much hope for people, for our communities, for our country, because of the hope dealers that I'm around every single day the Cafe Momentum's.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Chad Hauser is the founder of Cafe Momentum or the Phoenix.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Scott Strode who, by the way I didn't even mention Scott's story is that he was in recovery himself and started the Phoenix.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: He's just a guy riding his bike with others in recovery and realize that it was making this huge difference and that's what gave rise to the Phoenix.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Chad was an up-and-coming chef who went into the juvenile detention facility to teach some kids how to make ice cream and just had his mind blown and said this is what I want to give up my restaurants and I just want to do this with my life.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: I have so much hope because of these hope dealers and I'm from Pittsburgh, pennsylvania.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: Fred Rogers is sort of this iconic figure in Pittsburgh.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: I'm a huge Mr Rogers fan and there's the famous Mr Rogers quote that when he would be watching the news and despairing, his mom would say look for the helpers.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: And the reason why I have hope is because I see those helpers helping every single day.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: And our country is so divided right now.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: There's so much despair.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Everyone is pointing fingers at one another and the answer that everyone has is if one side or the other of some political debate gets power and control, then they can fix it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: And I know that that's false, I know it's not true.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: The people that can fix it are the Scott Strode and the Chad Hauser's and the Sean's and the Cameron's.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: We have to find ways to empower them and lift them up.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: And the beauty of that is where the sort of the political debates divide, these incredible healers in our communities just naturally unite.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: There's no longer politics and debate and despair, there's unity and hope and focus.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: You know Alexis de Tocqueville.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: When he came to America to study it in the 1800s he said the great thing about America is that Americans are always seeking sort of seeing problems and when they encounter a problem of any kind, they seek each other out and together they unite to solve that problem.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: And when they do, they become a power that speaks from afar, a power that speaks into which one listens.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: And you know there were lots of problems in our country when Tocqueville was observing those things.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: But this is still the great threat of America that if you go in our communities, always and everywhere there are people solving problems, seeking each other out and uniting to drive transformation and progress.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: And that's what gives me hope and I hope it gives your listeners hope.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And it supports value number eight, very last one, that community is everything, and when you can pour into community and have that be your base, I just think that all good things can flow from that, if you can activate them for good.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: So, evan, you're a really good dude and I want you to be our friend forever.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I know that people are listening right now, have been nodding like bobbleheads and they are going to want to connect with you.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So, evan, tell us where people can connect with you.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Where can they go?
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Connect with stand together foundation, sign up for catalyst.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: What are all the channels?
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Well, they can email me directly at standtogetherorg.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: They can find me on Twitter or social media.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Twitter, I'm at Evan Feinberg.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: They can find stand together foundation.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: They can.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: They can.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: It's at stand together foundation on Twitter.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: They can go to our website standtogetherfoundationorg.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: For all of it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: I would love to connect with anyone and everyone, anyone who, anyone who truly wants to empower people from the bottom up.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: There are people and we want to work together in whatever ways we can.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: And I want to give a little shout out to stand together foundation, because the holidays are coming up in a couple months, but they have this incredibly beautiful gift guide on their website, in addition to the amazing resources PS, your impact page on your website.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: People, if you're looking for an impact page and how to quantify it on your website with your mission, please go and check it out.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: But the gift guide is a curation of all of these social enterprises who are working in community to uplift exactly the Shauns, the Camerons, everybody, and so and I have to give a little shout out because cafe momentum's on there and one of my favorites thistle farms is also on there- I just visited my friend, Hal Cato, and Becca and the team at thistle farms.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: yesterday, while I was in Nashville, I bought some lavender candles for my wife and some hands.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: So you know the amount of dignity that comes from producing a product that people value is just an incredibly transformative thing.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: And thistle farms does this incredible job, with women who are survivors, of empowering them to be their very best by producing these products.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: I can tell stories like that all day.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: There are a bunch of social enterprises like that that we work with women's bean project care programs so many.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I would love for folks to go to that store and buy some products and transform some lives just by doing what they do in their everyday life.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: This has been amazing, evan, you're a rockstar.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your heart, your wisdom, your time with us today.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Keep rocking it.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: You guys are great humans.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: We hope you're loving the Summer of Evolution series and to learn more you can head over to weareforgoodcom slash evolution for all the playlists, resources and other ways to help you get inspired and activated this summer.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: We'd also love for you to join the conversation, share what you're learning on social media or join us at our free community at weareforgoodcommunitycom.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Bonus points for snapping a picture and showing us where you're listening from.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Can't wait for the next conversation.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: See you soon, friends.