Latest / The Stephan Hogan Podcast / The Music Manager’s Playbook: Martha Earls

Transcript

The Music Manager’s Playbook: Martha Earls · The Stephan Hogan Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: When something doesn't work, I don't dwell on it.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_04: I learn from it and then I move on.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_04: Where I find more like frustration is when I'm when I don't know when I don't know the next move, right?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: When I can't see the path and I feel like I'm just sort of sitting in neutral.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_04: Those the most challenging moments in my career were during those times, I think.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go back a little bit to uh, you know, you starting in the at the front desk to the mail tape room.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like you did it the way that a lot of folks in the town have done it that have built massive careers where you just start at the bottom and you work your way up.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you uh maybe you just give us a little bit of that like story.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: And some of the challenges along the way.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and some of those challenges.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I remember.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I interned, I started my career in publishing.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: I interned at Warner Chapel.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: I loved it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't really know what I was getting into.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember when I showed up there and like on Friday afternoons, one of the songwriters had this like wagon of margaritas that he would like walk through the office.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, this business, this is made for me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: This is amazing.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was like loving it, just experiencing it all, like love being around talent.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then they offered me a job.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: I was still in school at MTSU.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: And the the um person who was at the front desk, she had left to go work somewhere else.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so they needed to hire a receptionist.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so they offered me the job and I was still in school, and I was like, yes, I'll make it work.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'll figure it out.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I did, I figured it out.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so at that point, I was just like happy to be in the, you know, be in the game and get a paycheck.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got promoted, even though I didn't make any more money, but at least I wasn't sitting at the front desk, I guess.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: Could go to the bathroom when I wanted to.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: I guess that was the compensation.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: But promoted to the tape room.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was great until other friends of mine who were the same age who were in similar roles started getting like their first bigger responsibility job.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I started looking around and I was like, am I behind?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that comparison.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's the thing that just is so hard.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: You it you can't avoid it, but it's like just kills your spirit, you know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't it?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember looking at like one of my best friends, and he had just gotten a promotion, and he was allowed to like be a song, like a junior song plugger, and I wasn't in that role yet.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh, what am I doing wrong?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and that's when like the frustration, I don't know what my next move is, like I'm gonna, I'm stuck in neutral, whatever.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: Even though, like looking back, like you're talking about the course of, you know, nine, 12 months, you know, such a small amount of time.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're 22, that's forever, you know?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was like definitely like I'm ready to get my, I feel like for me too, it's also I'm ready to get my career going.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I felt like I didn't, I wasn't able to do that yet.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so then finally, my boss at the time, a guy named Tim Whipperman, he uh promoted me to like a junior song plugger.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like, that was like the greatest, that was it was like the greatest moment.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, okay, all right, I have some freedom to go do this.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I did you ask him, were you like a sit down, like, hey man, I'm I really want some more responsibility?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or did he just see it in you?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I kind of like uh like talk to other people who were on the creative team.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, I'd really like to do this, I'd really like to do this.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I was so far to the point where I was like, I don't know what I was thinking, but I was like, maybe I should leave, go to law school and like be a music business attorney.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I think Tim kind of heard all that through the rumor mill.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Cause looking back, I probably was not very subtle about it, you know?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, and then he called me into my office and was like, hey, we're gonna promote you.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh my God, it's incredible.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: So that was great.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: That was that I I felt like I had a little bit more freedom.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: Kind of moved, moved up the ranks a little bit at Warner Chapel.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: I loved working there.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: And then um, kind of the first big blow came when my boss got fired, you know, and they just they had downsized it's company, corporate company turnover, right?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: And they he had gotten fired, not for any reason, but just hey, we're down, we're shuffling up the company.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: And at Warner Chapel, and they had to they let go of like half the creative staff.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so they I mean um a guy named Michael Knox, I don't know if you know him, he's incredible.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: He's Jason Aldean's producer, he's amazing.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: So like we both were like, wait, what?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and so I remember somebody came into my office and they said, Hey, we're you don't work here anymore.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, huh?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because that was my whole, that was my only place I'd ever worked, you know, and like I was blown away.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so I remember like that night I went out to like a songwriter's round and I was like, I got this is crazy.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: I don't work there anymore.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_04: And and I ran into somebody who was like a much older, much more successful music industry executive, and he was like, It's a rite of passage.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, dude, I don't work at Orange, I lost my job today.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: He goes, It's a rite of passage.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: And he displayed it, was so calm about it, not not like dismissive, but was just so calm about it that like that stuck with me where I'm like, okay, this is just another thing I have to get through.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so then I I went to BMG, which was awesome.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: How long did it take to get that to land there?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, not a crazy amount of time.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I had kind of heard word on the street.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: Not, you know, publishing, especially in the publishing world, everybody, everybody's so tapped into one another.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's such a network that you can, you know, I remember calling people being like, You're never gonna believe this happened.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know, people knew the second I couldn't even pick up the phone and call them like, oh, we know, we heard, you know, it's like because word travels so fast amongst that like little bit of the music industry.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, and and I remember just somebody being like, Oh, yeah, BMG, like I heard they're hiring, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: One thing led to another.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I ended up working there.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was great.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I um we had success and I signed some great artists, we had some hits, and it was awesome.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Was this like a lateral and it was yeah, it was a very lateral move.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: It was like almost an identical position to what I had at Warren Chapel.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: But it was just a different company and it was run more like an independent, it was much smaller.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Orange Chapel, we had probably a hundred songwriters, 85 songwriters at the time.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: And BMG had maybe 18, 19, 20.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: So it was that was really nice to see that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: And every company's run differently.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I always again, like I always felt like I had this nagging thing of like, there's more, there's more.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that that drove me, um, but also like frustrated me too in some way, you know.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: In the back of my mind, I was always like, there's more than this.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: I have to, there's more, there's more, there's more.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my brother-in-law call people like you killers.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: How do you like like oh, she's an absolute killer, or he's a killer.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or you see, you know, the ladies on Shark Tank, they're killers.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're just like they got the grit, they're business women, they're hungry, they got the drive, they got the work ethic, they're gonna get it, they're gonna win no matter what it takes, kind of an attitude.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's what you're doing.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like in order to have the hunger to want to be able to do the thing that you don't even know what the thing is, but you're like, but you know it's there.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like driven.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's that entrepreneurial spirit.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: That uh there's the itch, there's the itch, and then there's the spirit.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's the entrepreneurial itch.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some people like, I think I'm gonna start a cookie company.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: That might be fun.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the people that are like, I have to do this.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's gonna work.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is that is very accurate, I would say, because I um I don't know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: I do, I'm highly competitive, but more so with myself, if that makes sense.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm a I'm a runner.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: I love running.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: If you said I'm a runner too, I would, and you're like, I'm running the such and such race.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, me too.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: I would never think of myself as competing against you because you're doing your thing, I'm doing my thing.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just trying to do to best myself of what I did yesterday, you know?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's probably like when I was a kid, you know how like sometimes little things stick with you when you're a kid that somebody says in passing.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember I'll never forget it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: I was in the fourth grade, and uh, they have like the parent-teacher conference, and I was like, ah, what'd they say?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: And the lady was like, and my mom was like, Well, she said you're not living up to your potential.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, what?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so now that is a kernel in the back of my mind where I'm like, maybe that lady gave me a gift of like, maybe I believe this about everybody, like all of us.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: We have so much potential and so much that we can all accomplish that I feel almost like a sense of like urgency to like continue trying to like accomplish things, you know.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's just like it's that, that's like the kind of drive.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: I remember I have a friend who named Jay Frank, who, you know, that's how I met Kane Brown and and all of that, who who died.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: He had cancer and he passed away.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: And he was young.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: He was like, I don't know, I don't even know if he was 50 when he died.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember talking to him right before he died.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: He was in the hospital.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, you know, and I just asked him, man, how do you, how do you feel about it?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: And he was that way too.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: And he was like, he goes, I just am so frustrated because there's so much more I want to do, you know?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: And that's like kind of how I feel about it, even from the career perspective.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I always had that.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: So back in the publishing days, it was like this like almost like nagging thing on me, like, I gotta do more.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: And publishing pace is slow, you know.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Publishers, my husband's a publisher, he's like a freaking incredible publisher, but it's like chill, and you go to lunch and you like chat with people and you talk about stuff, and I'm like, we gotta get stuff done, you know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it's probably why ultimately I think like publishing for me was like I was very like the wrong size shoes or something, you know, where I was like, I can get around, but it's not comfortable, you know?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because like I've dabbled in the publishing world just as a writer.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um the dating process, and yeah, just everything is so slow.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then to get paid takes forever.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: It takes 13 months to like get your money off of your song or whatever for your first check.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's insane.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's another conversation, but the interesting thing is that wiring that I have, I am incredibly urgent all the time about everything.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: To an impulsive level, probably.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's interesting.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like idea to execution.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: If it's just sitting in neutral, I'm like, I get a little frustrated where I'm like, what are we doing?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: What are we doing?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'll uh but uh but I always try to uh it's like the Stephen Covey author guy, begin with the end in mind.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: Always just what are we doing?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: Why are we doing it?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I say that all the time to my team, what's the why?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: Why are we doing that?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because if you're feeling impatient, like enough's not happening right now, and you do something impulsive, you don't want to create more problems for yourself.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: So before we do anything, it's always like, what's the why?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: What do we want to have happen from this?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: And it can be the biggest thing in the world.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I remember one year I was like, I'm gonna have an artist that plays stadiums.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: All right, that's the why.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now let's go and let's figure out how we're gonna do that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: What you know, Kane and I were probably two or three years into working together.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, he's gonna play stadiums.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, okay, now let's go figure out the steps to get there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: But when I can't, when I don't know the why or what are we doing, you know, that thing where you just look around sometimes, you're just like, what are we doing?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I hate that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's the worst.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's the worst.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you've ever wondered why you see that little Frenchie in every episode of my podcast, it's there for a reason.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: What I care about here is real conversation, real people, and real human connection.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's why partnering with Studio Bank made sense to me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Their mission is to empower creators.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they say that that little Frenchie is more than just a logo.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's smart, active, adaptable, and a natural companion.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sophisticated but not pompous, rare and one of a kind.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: That felt like a real fit for this podcast and this show and what I'm all about.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're around Music Row, you've probably heard of Studio Bank or know someone that banks with them, and there's a reason for that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: They set out to rethink the typical experience, put people at the center of it, and fuse innovative technology with genuine hospitality.
• 13:14
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• 13:18
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• 13:20
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• 13:23
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• 13:31
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• 13:37
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• 13:44
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• 13:48
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• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: You said something very important.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: A couple things.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: One, your why.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to know your why.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, um, for all of it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's your overarching why?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't have to know the end, but I want to help people.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: I do know that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big why.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like the things I do know, help a person, make a friend at the end of a podcast.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of a why.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: But for you and your maybe let's say business and like, or if you're working with someone like Kane, who's a just phenomenon, a superstar.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you guys have a why together?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is the other thing you said, Engle working back from there to how do we get to here?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like I would say, with him specifically, I'll I'll talk about him and then like the bigger with him specifically, he's also very internally competitive as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so his why is really like just year over year, how do we do more than we did last year?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: How do we not slide backwards?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: How do we build on and do more than we did last year?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes that happens through obviously, you know, you go from playing a club to a theater to an arena to a stadium.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's all, that's the obvious ways.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: But that's not always executable year over year.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like this year we took the year off from touring.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: So now I don't have that metric.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like, okay, how do we reach other places and facets?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like getting involved in F1 or getting involved in acting or getting involved, you know what I mean?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think, I think for him, that's definitely like the driver of like, how do I keep building on every success?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: I feel this for sure.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I think Kane feels the same way.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I would say his actions show it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: Every success, you can't rest on it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like you just have to build on it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's an opportunity to build into the next thing, into the next thing, into the next thing.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I would say for me, kind of larger picture overarching, what really interests me is um I like I like things that affect and and move culture along, you know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's I think legacy, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: When you're able to progress culture a little bit.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: And it happens in different ways.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like it can happen in obvious ways, you know.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think in the case of like Kane Brown, he opened the door for a lot of artists that were maybe didn't feel they could get into country music.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like he busted that door wide open.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a lot of um artists that were able to come into the genre have massive success, I think, because of the trail that Kane blazed, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: So that's an that's like a very obvious version, but it also happens smaller and in more subtle ways, you know, and you see these artists who are creating music that's like the soundtrack to somebody's life, and like, or maybe it's music that's important that like says something that that fan never knew how to say, but were dying to hear it articulated, you know, that's what great music does.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think just moving culture along in a positive way, I think that is definitely my like big picture.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think it just goes, okay, how do we how do we work on things and help our artists work on things that make an impact?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where we're not you don't want to chase the guy that just down the street that just had some hits.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: That guy's cut got that lane totally covered.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's like, how do you just create your own trail and your own path?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And be the first you.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, be authentic.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think so it can happen in very small ways with artists or in really big sweeping ways.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, but yeah, Kane's a great example of a big sweeping way and open that door because he was biracial.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of a sudden, it's kind of like a Charlie Pride thing, you know, like back in the day.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: If we were to go back to country music, like he was a pioneer in country.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Completely.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: And think of how much time elapsed between those two artists.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, Darius Rucker, um, but you know, Dari Darius, of course, had all the success of Hootie and the Blowfish, too, you know, so there's like familiarity there, I think, with him.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: But Darius is an example, but but three artists in 50 years, that's ridiculous, you know.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but now I think like it's a little bit things are moving a little bit faster, you know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you see, shabozy has just gonna say one of the biggest songs ever in country music.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, I don't know that Shabuzi would be where Shabuzi is if it wasn't for Kane Smith.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think the format would have been open enough to it.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-uh.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's that's that legacy stuff.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, that's the stuff that matters generation over generation, and that's what's like really interesting.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: When the next Ken Burns, whoever that person is, does a documentary on country music and it's from our period moving forward or from the last decade moving forward, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be interesting because Kane would be one of those critical pieces.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: He should be.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: He should be.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: You think about like the last 10 years in country music, like you have obviously Kane and everything he's done, but even just how much the genre has expanded, like now, the fact that country music is like these stadium tours, it never was like that before.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it we've seen there's been a seismic shift, I think, in the format in in a positive way that um, yeah, it'll probably take 20 years, 30 years, and we'll look back and go, oh my gosh, what a time, you know.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in building with Kane, what was one of the hardest parts of that whole thing?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was in the beginning, maybe as a wall you hit, or maybe it's being denied certain award show recognition.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like what are some of the what's her what are what's some of the stuff that you've had to deal with?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think early on in Kane's career, he broke through Facebook and nobody had done that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody in Nashville had done that, and nobody understood it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: And no people would call me and be like, is this real?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, what do you like, what do you mean?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't I don't I don't believe it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, you don't bel like are we talking about the Easter bunny right now?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what are you talking about?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but people, nobody had had that fan, artist to fan connection that now is almost over-indexing the other way, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody had done that on social media before.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so that the first and biggest challenge was was getting people in Nashville to wrap their heads around, hey, this is this is how artists are reaching fans now.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's not happening through, it can happen in non-traditional ways.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: Back then that was non-traditional.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd say that was the start.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think what was Kane was great about is as soon as he came to town, he started doing the work writing songs and getting in the songwriting room with great songwriters.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think something that can happen.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe we're seeing it now, I don't know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: But I think something that can happen is you can have viral success online and maybe one song.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: But if you haven't put the time in to go and write great songs, it comes and goes so fast.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you see somebody and they have the biggest song because it popped off on TikTok and then it just goes away as fast as it came because that foundation, Nashville's still a songwriting town.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: You have to have that foundation.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think Kane was really good about that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: He started writing songs, he wrote some incredible songs.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he wrote What Ifs, which is a diamond single, you know?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would say like him doing that was a was the real smartest first step.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: That he made in his career.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then But it was hard to get people to wrap their heads around the idea that you could build a fan base online and a core fan base that's really engaged.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Where he can write them back.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they can watch his live streams or talk to him.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Show him demos.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: I had to put in his contract with Sony, we had to put in there that he was allowed to show his music on social media because they didn't want him to be allowed to do that.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because they thought back then that that would take away from iTunes downloads.
• 22:36
  unknown: Oh my God.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: They thought, oh, well, if it's on Facebook or wherever, then people will just listen to it there and they won't download it on iTunes.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: We won't make any money off of it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's the biggest, freest advertising there is.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_04: And now every every label marketing plan, I don't care who what artist you are, is like, okay, post on social media.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, post more.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: Post more, post more, you know.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's so funny how people even was the pioneer for that too.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Probably.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: It was him and Luke Combs, I think, were really the probably the first two that had big success off of.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_04: Luke was so smart about it too.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Instagram, he was really Luke was like a year after Kane, and he really he Luke is was so smart on Instagram and just showing, just sharing music.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's all it was.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_04: Was like it was so pure.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, now it's so marketed, and everybody's trying to hack it, and they're like, oh, it's this bit of the song, or oh, if you do this or that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: Back then it was just like great country artists sharing music to their fans, like which, you know, that's I think why they both blew up so big.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then he came to town and put in the work.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then you gotta put in the work.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta be good too.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: That's the other thing that's inconvenient to people sometimes.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you actually have to be good.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Alex Heike, the founder of Sound Royalties and a friend of mine gave me a piece of advice that I'm never gonna forget.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: He said, first decide what is the right move for your career and then figure out how to fund it.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sound Royalties helped artists, they help writers, they help producers, they help YouTubers and other people that earn royalties, figure out how to access capital without having to sell their catalogs, give up ownership, or their copyrights.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Their funding is completely based on your royalty income, not your credit score.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's no personal guarantees.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Go to soundroyalties.com/slash Stefan Hogan Podcast, S-T-E-P-H-A-N Hogan Podcast for a complimentary royalty analysis and free income forecasting.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Fill out the form and a royalty specialist is gonna hit you up within one business day.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or you can also click the link in the description below.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So first decide what the right move is for your career, then figure out how to fund it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: You weed through the non-good.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's like gold panning.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, totally.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: It sifts out.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it sifts out the the gold.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you said hacking.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I do feel like everyone's trying to hack it.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like they're trying to hack it online, and I feel like they're trying to ha hack it on the label side financially.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like they're trying to hack it with putting artists with like an EDM artist and a non-genrist artist, which isn't a bad thing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think those can be great, you know.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: If it's authentic.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: If it's authentic.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, hey brother with Dan Taminsky.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like when he sang Hey Brother, that song changed that's an EDM tune with Dan Taminsky on it, a bluegrass guy.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's really cool when it works right.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: But now it feels very forced.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious from your per your because you've been in the music business a quarter of a century century.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: When we're talking in centuries, that'll date.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: We're talking in centuries.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've never talked in centuries on this podcast.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_05: I gotta get my Botox redone.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna need to get it soon too.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm getting bags under my right eye.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, for real, like talk, let's talk about this hacking thing.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: Cause And now with AI, yes, people really trying to hack it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_04: We do you think we live, you know?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure there is a podcast we could go find about this, but we kind of live in a hacking society right now.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's kind of the thing, you know, hack your diet, you know, what's your sleep hacks, what's your, you know, whatever, travel hack.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: Everything's a hack.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: Have you noticed that?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: Where it's like, I don't know, I think.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm and what's fast.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's why the GLP1 thing caught on so fast.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Not hating on it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's probably made a lot of people a lot healthier, but people want to be able to hack, like in that feels like a hack.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: I can lose weight, I can have better heart health, blah blah blah blah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Are there are there side effects?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard some exercise scientists say that the majority of the population would be better off taking it than not taking it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: But it is all opinion-based at the end of the day.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: But we do live in a hacking society.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's just a big example that I feel like you can really see implemented in society where it actually works.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think the majority of hacks work.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't either.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you have to put in the elbow grease and the time.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you don't have, if you take a shortcut and then you don't have the experience to that sort of builds a foundation, once you get to your destination that you shortcut it, you don't know what to do.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's like that journey that helps you figure it out.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you have had that journey.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because in order to be a manager, you are wearing, you are essentially, I feel like you're every department of a business put into one person.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: Which I love because no day is the same.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you never get, you're never just like grinding out the data entry, you know.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: I love that about it, but it is challenging.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: And there is so much pressure on managers and on artists.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: There's so much pressure on artists, which ultimately then is the manager, because the manager's is is a good manager, I think is an extension of the artist, you know, and kind of the COO of their operation.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the the pressure is crazy because the pressure is now on the artist to write the music, you know, market the music, engage with the fans and um to do it all like a little bit cheaper than we did it last year, you know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like I and I I feel that pressure, I see it on all like think of how many artists are like speaking out like this is too much, this is too hard.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: I think because they feel it all on their shoulders, you know?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's not fair.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's not why you signed a record deal.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's not why you have a team, like that all that obligation shouldn't be just on the artist.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: So do you feel like you guys do it different and how you do things is different?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we've I think that that because like with Kane, he started non-traditionally on our roster.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: We have a couple independent artists.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think that we don't like having that responsibility isn't I don't feel it as a burden, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not expecting anybody else to do it do anything for us.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so then when somebody does, I'm like, wow, oh gee, thanks for the help.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: This was awesome, you know.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I think you've gotta have that entrepreneurial mindset to be a successful artist now.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you can't just being a great singer, unfortunately, that's not enough either.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be like a great singer, a great musician, or at least like have some knowledge of being able to write music.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be great at being able to brand yourself.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: A great marketer, yeah, a great social media manager, you need to understand finance to an extent, yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to fund your career, find your demos or your records, right?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Market them, go on tour, yeah, figure out, but like you if you start to break it down, like the amount of responsibility on an artist is pretty insane.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a lot, and um that's where you come in for sure.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so what is the biggest challenge amongst managers now?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the things that you said, and I like it, is that you don't expect anything from anybody, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which means you still have the bootstrap mentality.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you gotta have it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because as soon as you take your foot off the gas, someone else is gonna pass you.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's so true.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_04: That is so true.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, uh, you do.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: You always have to have a sense of urgency and and hunger for it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think you've ever I don't think you're you know, I don't think anybody can relax anymore.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, even the biggest artists in the world are still hungry for it and you know, in the hunt.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think I I I don't think you can slow down anymore.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think you just have to keep going, keep moving.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the F1 stuff real quick.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: So cool.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Are you a fan?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_05: An F1 fan?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's so cool.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Especially after the movie, it's so cool.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually use the F1 analogy in terms of like I think of a brand like the IWC watch brand is in that um F1 movie.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you'll see like IWC or like a Rolex on an F1 car.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I use this analogy, but I'll say like if you watch like an F1 race on Sunday or something, the the likelihood of someone going out and buying a$50,000 watch or a$30,000 watch on Monday is very low.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: What Rolex is paying for is association with excellence, with the best in the world.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I think of positioning and brand positioning, it's really about associating yourself with the best people in the world.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody saw the mornings you started before sunrise, the anxiety that kept you awake, the setbacks that made you wonder if it would ever work.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you kept building.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when you finally stopped to appreciate how far you'd come, you wanted something to remember that season of your life.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your host, Mr.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hogan, found his at East Coast Time Pieces in Nashville.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: A grand Seiko Yuka Mamiji GMT, its deep red dial inspired by autumn leaves reflected in Japanese wooden floors.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: A watch that captures a season, a reminder of your own.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Veteran owned and trusted by some of the biggest names in music and entertainment, East Coast Time Pieces carries Rolex, Omega, Tudor, Cartier, Patek Philippe, Odomaki Gay, and more.
• 32:53
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• 32:54
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• 32:59
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• 33:04
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• 33:05
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• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: East Coast Time Pieces.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: You've put in the time.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Remember it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: You guys doing stuff with F1.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's this beautiful association that occurs that has this almost uh intangible aspect to it that cannot be KPI or ROI'd.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's so true.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I do think that's something with Kane and that that I'm fortunate to work with him about is that he's a country singer, but he's a cultural crossover.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_04: And he has a real interest and desire into things outside of just like, you know, the narrow, like what that narrow lane is that you would think like a traditional country singer would be.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so with F1, we got the opportunity, they did a huge um event February last year, where they revealed the like, it was their 150, so 150 years.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: They revealed like the the livery, which is like all the cars and stuff.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and they were getting different artists to perform.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: And he went and he performed, and he performed miles on it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, the most makes so much sense.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, he performed miles on it.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: It was a massive opportunity.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: And we just, and but what I think our team is really good at, and I have people that work with me that are incredible at it, Nikki Boone.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, once we get into an opportunity, we figure out how to then infiltrate and become friends with and strategize with everybody there.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: So we got there, and all of a sudden, all the teams, we start getting to know all the teams.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: Who are you?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: What are you about?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_04: People are so interested and curious about Nashville.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: And people that don't work in music love meeting musicians and talking to musicians.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's like, okay, do you know Nashville?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: You're familiar like this.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, so-and-so is a country fan.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I didn't realize.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: And what we do is exotic to them, just like what they do is exotic to us.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so then we became close with the Haas team, obviously, because they're an American team.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, went, went, put in the time, went to a couple races, the Vegas race.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, last November, Kane revealed they asked, they asked for for one for the anthem.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I don't, I don't know that that's the right thing.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: I said, what if we do a performance?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: What if he reads the driver lineup, announces the driver lineup?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: And they were like, oh my gosh, yes.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_04: So then he performs a couple songs, reveals the driver lineup.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's a huge moment.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_04: We go back, we go down to Miami, we do the F1 race down there.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: We partnered with the Hard Rock, who's a great partner.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: They sponsor the race down there, and we did make a whole weekend out of it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: So it was Kane and Marshmallow and Nellie, and they're all performing on different stages, doing stuff, and then they all came together for a concert and then involved in the race there.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's like the overarching sort of fan-facing side of it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: Meanwhile, on the back side, it's us, my team, Kane, all of us becoming close with the teams at Haas and Red Bull and Williams and, you know, across the board, meeting drivers, then doing little things.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: Kane and Ollie, Ollie's Ollie Beerman, who's an incredible young driver.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: He drives for Haas.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: He and Kane sort of become friends.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: Ollie's on a doing an interview in England where it's like, phone a phone, phone a famous friend.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, can we call Kane?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Kane answers the call.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: So it's now it's like connecting the dots outside of any one individual race.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: And some of the things you do, like you might go, oh wow, you got compensated for doing that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: Great.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: Some things you do, you don't, it's not about getting paid.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's about what are how the intangibles of how does this lead in seed being how are we planting seeds and how are we growing, how are we just growing what we do all across the world?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: So it's been really cool.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I hope to do more.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_04: I know we'll, I know we're gonna do more with them.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's great.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's a beautiful look behind the curtain, though.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a stunning.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you've ever been to an F1 race.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's stunning.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: It is every single race is the Super Bowl.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_04: The setup, the hospitality, the teams, the production, the secure, everything required into going into it is a Super Bowl.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it's happening every single weekend.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's wild the scale of it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: Wild.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's really cool.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: It is excellent.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: They execute the hospitality.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's a really nice lesson, too, in sort of because it's such a global thing in seeing just how they how everything is, you know, you go into one of the teams into their just like little, just a little trailer, you know, their hospitality trailer.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: Every tablecloth has like every table is a tablecloth and you know, glass, you know, it's just it's just excellence.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think about these things.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's important.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think about it's like the you could hand someone a water.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're drinking bubbly water and non-bubbly, but it's like, would you like a sparkling water or a non-sparkling?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if you give them, you know, it and a fancy glass with a napkin with a little gold logo of the thing.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like those little touches that to me, like I look at as a person down like okay, like it's elevated.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Elevated.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Check that in the back of my mind.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: These people know what they're doing.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because if they're because you think, and it's true, if they're doing that here, then they're doing it across the board.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's like if you go in a restaurant and the bathroom's nasty, it's like is the kitchen clean?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: I've always thought that's the same thing.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, okay, that's really cool.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's been your favorite vertical to get in outside of music?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, sports stuff.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: I love sports.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: I love, I love sports.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think, you know, going back to like shifts in culture, I think shifts in culture come through music and sports first.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so I love sports.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I think, and you know, Kane and all of our artists love sports.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I have an artist who um named Julia Cole, who is a volleyball player.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: She, well, she played, and she's no, she well, she's a singer, but she played collegiate volleyball at Vanderbilt.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: And women's volleyball is now like the next emerging really big sport.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: And they're doing a four-team women's volleyball tournament.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: They're doing a Texas Stadium where the Cowboys play.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so like in the sand.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, no.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: Just like um, like they're putting court down, like court volleyball college, like it's Nebraska, Penn State.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so she uh, so I we got linked up with that team, and it's like you have to have Julia Cole come down there and you because they want a performer, you have to have her perform.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: She is a female, she was a volleyball player in college, and she is a huge advocate for women's athletics, girls' athletics.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so I love the sports side of things.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's such crossover.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think they need each other.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: Sports events need music.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_04: Music needs the energy of sports and the the reach of sports.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, just everybody we've gotten to know across the board, top to bottom, is just so is cool that we deal with.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: We deal with great people.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: They have such respect for musicians like we do for athletes.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: So that sports world is huge.
• 40:17
  unknown: I love it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting parallel because at every sporting event they play music.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hypes everybody else like the the triple A games we'd go to in Sacramento.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh they'd always play like the whoever's coming up to bat their favorite song.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a it's amazing, and they and they do it right, and the fandom is incredible too.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you're looking, you have a very like macro view of things, global view, and I like that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um, one of the things I think that I researched is that you have an interest in emerging markets.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious about what you think about Latin America, Latin American music, and how big that market is.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's a very open lane potentially of untapped potential.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: Couldn't agree more.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the Latin, yeah, Latin music fans are incredible.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's we did um Kane worked on a song with Karine Leon, who's a regional Mexican artist.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember the first time I saw him, I was he like sold out as Newark, New a stadium in New York, an arena in Newark, New Jersey.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, this is this guy's this is crazy.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, this is music that I'm not even that familiar with.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: And the fans were so grateful for him for being there and traveling to see them.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that, yeah, the Latin music, Latin music is massive, and I and I want to be respectful of it for the genre that it is, right?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: But also I do think you're right.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's tremendous opportunity, and I think there's a lot of shared values between the Latin market and the country market.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, like you think about, you know, when we were young, Selena was massive.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: And since her, I don't think anybody's really, you know, she's from Texas, she more walked that line.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: I don't there had nothing else has really walked that line.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I just really in my heart believe that there's an opportunity there.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think there would be so many fans that are underserved musically first generation Americans, that yeah, it's that it's that similarity of values, it's you know, this sort of like modern day language, Spanglish.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: I just think there's so much opportunity.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like she's yeah, she's one of the biggest artists in the world.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like the not, I think I mean more particularly for an artist not because she cares a pop artist.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think into the country space, that's where the opportunity really lies.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: And we just haven't, it'll happen at the right time.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like signing Latin artists or like maybe somebody, well, it's just gotta be somebody who it's authentic to, or collaborating with.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think both.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like we did the Kareen song and we did a song with Becky G years ago.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um or just facito, but that was I mean, that was massive.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but that was massive.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was the biggest, that was like the first billion streaming song, I think.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's all I love that.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's a reason Bad Bunny did the halftime show at the Super Bowl, and it was amazing.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it and it was so important to so many people on so many different levels.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I think I loved it.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: I loved it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to Mexico a few times, went younger on some mission trips.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to Paraguay and Brazil.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um I loved the music, and I remember that they always had the just like that great little beat that makes you want to dance.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always just been this thing that just makes me feel good.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like their version of reggae or something.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's great.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's called reggaetone.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, man, love the music, see it, and I feel like there's so much on the line uh do you have an artist that is in that line?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: We did.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: We did.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I I just really believe that I really believe that there's opportunity there.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I really do.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think, yeah.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I know other people see it too.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's just it's just gotta be so authentic.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: It has to be so authentic.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: You cannot fake that.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: If you fake that, if you're pretending, then you're an asshole.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: How's that for your clip?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you're pretending you're an asshole, I like it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, yeah, because we want authenticity.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of the um thing these days because we talked about the hack culture.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think people want the authenticity.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I have on my little whiteboard, it says vulnerability or vulnerable, different, valuable.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's my new criteria for anything I'm gonna post.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's really cool.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's a great criteria.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: The vulnerability piece is really admirable because that's a tough one, you know, because there's so many people.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: If you post a clip that is vulnerable, it's so easy for all of those people just to come in and just give their hurt your feelings just because they're jerks and that feels good to them to hurt your feelings, you know.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: So that's I mean, that's that's very admirable trait.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: The word country politan comes from a real era in country music.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: When Nashville took country music and made it elegant, strings, background vocals, orchestra.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was country music with polish.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Think Patsy Klein, Glenn Campbell, Tammy Wynette, George Jones, Charlie Pride, songs that still had the ache and honesty of country, but dressed up with style.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that is exactly what this hotel feels like.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: The kind of place where every detail's been thought through.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: The scent when you walk in, the music, the clothes they carry, the textures, the rooms, the coffee cups, the way everything feels curated without feeling fake.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you feel the history immediately, but unlike staying right in the middle of Broadway, it feels tucked away, it feels calm, it feels like you found something.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's honestly why I love it.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's where I go when I want to get away, think, slow down, have a restful time without technology.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're ready, the Ryman and Broadway are about a four-minute walk.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: The Country Politan Hotel, stay in the story.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Kane does it naturally.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: He always just himself.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: He is who he is.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like what he says is who he is, how he presents is who he is.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like, definitely.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're vulnerable, people people like to people who are smaller like to swoop, you know, like small mentality, like to swoop in and be jerks about it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: I totally reverse my psychology on that though.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: How do you handle it?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that if you have haters, you're doing something right.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, completely, because you're polarizing.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_04: People care.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like a hater cared enough to type a comment.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, if there's haters, then this thing was like reached far enough.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: That it reached someone that was a hater.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: That fires me up.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: And to be such a hater that you take the effort to like type a comment.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like we all see stuff that we disagree with, you know, but to like take that effort, like, yeah, that shows you struck a nerve, did something right.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I think that there's a lot of people that to read the comments and it hurts them here.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like it's really hard on artists.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is, but I also wish the artists could be like flip it and make it like a positive, like, oh, I did this thing.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that person's probably hurting.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_05: Of course they are.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: People that are commenting on that is like you're miserable, you're sad, you're hurt.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're taking it out on somebody else just because your life is somewhat miserable.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: You needed a little dopamine hit by typing something super rude.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it gave you dopamine, yeah, for sure.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, people will take haters as a little like got them.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you deal with things that like I'm so interested in this on like an artist level and a managerial level?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when it comes to polarizing topics and culture, do you intentionally have conversations where you're like, I might have an opinion on this, so-and-so might have an opinion on this, but we're just gonna steer clear of this because we're entertainers?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like like political stuff, you mean?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anything.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: It could be it can be anything anymore, though.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, it could be a lot of things.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it could be the cracker barrel sign, and people lose their minds.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for real.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like what?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, how's that odd?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: She got fired.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: It is, yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes like there's that part of you, I don't know if you feel this ever, but you're like, man, I kind of feel like an itch.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to like put this on my story because I feel this way about this topic culturally.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna because I know that it might offend people that follow me.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it, I think it comes back to the what's the why?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where it's like if it if the why is I'm frustrated and it feels good right now in the moment, that's not that's not enough of a why.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if there's a topic that an artist re that's the best thing I've ever been told about it.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's the truth.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: What's the why?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: If it just feels good in the moment, if that if that's the why, that's not enough of a reason to do it.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Then I'm just being the hater.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: Then you're just being the hater because you needed to feel good for a second.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're frustrated.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm frustrated.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I I'd say that's how we handle it is what's the why?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's acting emotionally.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: And also looking back, what do you want to have happen?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_04: What do you want to have happen?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: And if it's oh, I just I just want to feel something for a second, dude.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: Do ten jumping jacks and a couple push-ups.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: You'll feel the same thing.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're big into physical fitness.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: You're a big runner.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, are you an Andrew Huberman fan?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: Is he the is he the guy that wanted to live forever?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: Who's that guy?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: And Brian has a stomach issue right now.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you saw that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: See so, you know.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I'm big into those.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: He's like stressing himself out trying to live forever.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: But who are your like fitness people that you get stuck?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you like a I'm a David Goggins chick or a like Jocko kind of personality person?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if I have any one individual.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I definitely like guys who incorporate like the Lewis Howes of the world that talk about fitness, who was an athlete himself, but then apply sort of those principles into like the rest of their life, you know.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: I would say I think I'm I love Lewis Howes.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he's I really like him.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_04: I like how he does his podcast too, because he is the long podcast, but then he has his little like five-minute Friday or like Yeah, or I think he might do him every day, the daily motivation, and they're just little five to ten minute little bites where it's like, okay, if I can't commit, I can't listen to this whole thing, I know every day I'm gonna get something really good from him.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like guys like that, I think.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean Lewis Howes has done a great job building his career, yeah.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: And he's also so likable, and he just seems like a lovely human being.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna pick your manager brand really quick.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because part of me feels like like you think Kane Brown, like Kane is the brand.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: And Lewis Howes is the brand, but he's done it in a really great way.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even know if he's done it in an intentional way or if it just worked out because he was who he was long enough for people to like him.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: But sitting in my chair in my position, generally I'm never gonna post stuff of me.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm posting stuff of my guests to highlight them because they're the one that I want to shine the light on.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: You get what I'm saying?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_05: I totally do.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: But then long-term play, I'm like, I'm not really building my own like personal brand.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_04: You're building the podcast brand.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm building the podcast brand.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious how you would build a podcast because we talked about how it's kind of like an artist.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what I think it is, is I think for you, it's staying with those three principles that you have written over there.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it starts in this process, right?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's incrementally revealing like parts of yourself too, because you're connecting with whoever you're talking with, you know?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's incrementally revealing that.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then anybody watching or listening to the podcast is going to start learning more about you.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a delicate balance, right?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because how many times have you heard a podcast and the person hosting it is the one that's just yapping the whole time and you're just like, dude, I want to hear your guest, whatever.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a nuanced thing, right?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it is revealing bits of your bit bits of you, your you directly, not the you, the podcast, you, the person in these interviews.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then I think it's taking that when you go to social media and pulling on those threads.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: So like you're connecting the dots, right?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're talking about we're in this podcast and you mentioned, you know, I'm impatient to the point that sometimes I'm impulsive, right?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: Then take that when you go to your social media, and maybe it's like you just create a video and it's just, it could be either be funny where it's like, you know, you dyed your cat's hair because you were like, you know what, I'm impulsive to the point that sometimes it goes a little far and you know, impatient and I was tired of my cat.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just decided I wanted a purple cat.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: Or it's something serious, or whatever it is, but then but you're connecting the dots, you know, so it's not just like, why is he randomly talking about this?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, hey, I was on a podcast the other day and I was talking about the fact that I'm, you know, a little can get a little impatient, and here's how it showed up in my daily life.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: And then everything's working together, not living in two separate places.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like little strings that are created through the business, then you can pull and then you can explore those a little bit more on social media.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now let's take that blueprint and apply it to an artist that's listening to this.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: And they're trying to build their brand.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: And they have they released their song and they're doing the Justin Bieber blueprint that he did on YConn or whatever the song was that he posted 150 times the same song.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: What song was it?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: It was probably Yukon.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: That was a big one.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: But was it big because he posted Daisies?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: Or Daisies, yeah.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: That was a big one too.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: Daisies, 150 times they posted it.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: So right now you have you see a lot of artists just posting the same song over and over and over and over and over and over.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: But all they're trying to do is break through.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, because it's so there's so much clutter.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: In the musician world, yeah, it's the music, but like I think about Ella Lang right now, because your husband crushing it, by the way.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: Ken it's crushing it.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so happy for him.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: He deserves it.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: He's a great music publisher.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: He really is.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: He's a goaded music publisher.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: He is amazing, extremely kind.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love his candor, his personality, and uh he's funny.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just like like after I met him, I had asked, like, I talked to him a few times, and he just gave me great advice.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really, I always it's one of those things that I've always appreciated about people that have given me advice, like off-camera, that have just been willing to be like, hey, like, yeah, I'll take a call with you to answer your question or whatever.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: And Vince Gill talks about that a lot too with the people that mentored him.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_05: Huh.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and Vince Gill like went up, came up with some of the greats that have all passed now.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: But they all poured into Vince, you know, and he never forgets those little things.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, it's like when someone does something kind for me, I never forget it.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so your husband's one of those guys that I feel like does that really well.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: He's really great.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_04: He has such a great skill of giving feedback.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like he's really good at that in a constructive way, specifically to the songwriters, in a constructive way to where it's like they can take what he says and and build on it or go a direction, you know?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's really good at that.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that person out there is now falling in love.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're like falling in love with Ella, the person that's on the podcast and that sharing herself and who she is and what she's into, or her struggles, or her journey, or her faith, or whatever it is.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we want to listen because we want to know behind the curtain who the person is that's not just a singer.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it's the same conversation I'm having with you almost, but in a different vertical, and music's involved.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that you probably deal with as a manager too.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do we communicate who the artist is?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the like top things that you would suggest to someone?
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's hard because you do want to post your song, post your song, post your song.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: But also, you know, show show the show, like you mentioned, the brand.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the brand is important.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think I think early, early artists you know, pe you're just trying to figure out what what is even working.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's part of it too, being strategic about it and being smart about it and being honest with yourself about it.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I saw some up something the other day.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_04: We know we've gotten to know uh Gary V a little bit, right?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_04: And he's really motivational in talking to people about like.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love his content.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's cool, and he's just serves.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_04: He's a good dude.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: He just gives and gives and gives and gives value.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like the interactions that we've had very positive, like in real life, if that makes sense.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, has he got he has he given you strategy at all?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or were they just like friendly like conversations?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: We've just uh we went to an event together, and um, you know, he I remember him talking to Kane and even being like, Man, whatever you've got next, like just just do it.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: Don't be afraid.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: Don't it he very much ascribes to the don't be afraid to fail mentality.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay if you fail, just pick up and go again, you know, which I think is important.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_04: Takes the that takes some pressure off too.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I do think like you have to, I think if you're trying to create an online strategy, you have to post a lot and then you have to be honest with yourself about what is and isn't working.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: And if something's not connecting, get away from it and try something new.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: And if something is connecting, you triple down on it.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think about like this band we have Nightly, that's an independent band.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um one of the people, Nikki that works with them, they were posting three times a day and trying just to find that thing that would work.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_04: And it was always their music and it was always authentic, it was always on brand, but different things.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: And they discovered this like presenting their music almost in this like sort of nighttime sunset, cul-de-sac, like think the vibe of like Stranger Things when the kids are riding their bikes, you know, at sunset or whatever.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that kind of what I'm talking about.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that nostalgic 80s.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, people were really connecting and resonating with that.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: So then they just doubled down and really started serving a lot of music that way, you know, and then once you get a little bit of a foundation under you and people are following you, then you just start adding in other things and understand like, hey, not everything you post, especially if it's something that's different than what's working, is gonna reach the same amount of people or you're gonna get the same amount of likes, but you're still gonna reach.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I there's something like 90% of your posts reach people that don't follow you.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's how it is.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's the for you page.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you look at the data on the back end of your posts, who's seeing it?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Your followers are a very small percentage.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you gotta think every time you post something, say you post something and reaches 100,000 people, then 90,000 of people were not your followers.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_04: Then you're like, oh wow, okay, dang, I'm gonna try something.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: So then you post something and say it only reaches 10,000 people, you still probably reach 9,000 new people.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's crazy to think about.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_04: So you just have to like keep going and make sure in whatever you do, you're sprinkling in parts of your personality because people are looking for that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_04: People are just looking for real connection, you know?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's interesting now because AI AI is getting more and more realistic.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_04: That I'm wondering if people are gonna start feeling betrayed if all of a sudden they discover an account where they connected with the person is AI.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm wondering how people are gonna start feeling about that.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: I already feel like there's a for me personally, when I see it, I'm kind of um it's very off-putting to me.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_04: It feels wrong.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: I saw in like an army recruitment uh poster hanging up over by Walmart.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and um it the guy on it was an AI army dude.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: He looked like the perfect chiseled like army guy.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: G.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, G.I.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: it was G.I.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: Joe, and he was AI, and I was like, What's that?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did I it was just repulsive.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and I think we see it in music, we see um people not like I don't know, I think there's a cultural backlash that's happening.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: I do too, and I think the data centers are happening with that as well, and people are pissed off about it.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_04: I do too.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think that it's interesting how this thing that we're all think is gonna take over at the same time.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're starting to reject it as a culture.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right, right.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think in the back of your mind, somewhere people know, like, I that's not that's not uh that's not real, you know.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: You just can sense you have a sense for it.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is interesting.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_04: It yeah, and and you know, it's a very stressful thing for I've got two Kent and I have two kids, one's 12 and one's 14.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like, youth is stressed out about it because they're kind of being told this messaging of you're not gonna have a job when you get older, you know.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's a weird, interesting world we live in right now.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how is that?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have two daughters, two daughters, yeah.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you're navigating just with everybody else, like how to be a parent, how to parent your kids, right?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: Social media, do you give them phones?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: What do you let them do?
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's the worst.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, and then you have the AI thing, and you do have all these people saying, Yeah, these jobs are not gonna be here.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like people guessing when the world's gonna end.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: No one's ever gotten around.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's funny.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like maybe you need to not be afraid to fail.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I take that attitude that we've been kind of has been a theme throughout this, and what Gary V even told Kane is like, do it, don't be afraid.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just do it.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just go after the thing, and maybe don't be afraid to fail.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're gonna be needed in the field.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: Put AI aside.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_04: Follow your passion.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because think about it.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the only way we could do it.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because think about even like moving to Nashville, doing what I do, doing what you're doing, doing what you're doing now, or whether it's songwriting or creating a podcast, like if you looked at the numbers on it and started to get in your head about it, you would be like, This is impossible.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_04: There's no way I can do this.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like the the data says I'm not gonna have any success.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_04: You can't, you have to let that go.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doubling down on humanity.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's my moat.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's my moat.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: What's not gonna change in the next 10 years is people's hunger for authenticity.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's true.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it's true, it's why live shows, touring, all that stuff is so important.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's gonna keep doing this.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think we see it doing that too, right?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Trending upward.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Kane stole as one of the things back to the um NBA stadiums.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_04: We did all joy nine NBA rings.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_04: All of them.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody had ever done that before.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: No one's done it.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was cool.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a why that you came up with and said, How are we gonna get there?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: We did, yeah.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_04: We were sitting when that happened.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: I was sitting at Crypto, which it was Staples Center at the time, and we were playing it the next night.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: Kane was playing it the next night, and I was sitting with my friend Rich Dafer, who's a promoter, and he was like, He goes, We need to, we need to do more of these, like pointing around to the arena.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, We need to do all of these.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that was when it, that was where the idea was born.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: It was wild.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then also, too, yeah, you think about crazy stuff.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Kane was the first black artist ever, any genre, to headline Fenway.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't that wild?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like you would think there would be non-gener, like Jay-Z co-headlined it with Justin Timberlake, but after that it was Kane Brown.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: Wild.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like those types of things are like when you think, you know, and in the moment, you know, you're just doing them.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes I do think that's something that I've got a little bit of a problem with is in the moment when you're in these big things, like I'm not feeling it necessarily because you're just like tactical, executing, you know, whatever.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then like you think back, you're like, dang, that's a big deal.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it is.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrating the wins is very hard.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_04: It is hard, especially in this business, because you don't want to relax, you know?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, because you're on to the next and we're also superstitious.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_04: And and also it all moves so fast that you don't want to get passed by.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: Does your brain shut down when your head hits the pillow?
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_04: I fall asleep immediately.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_04: Hopefully I don't jinx myself, I'm highly superstitious, but I fall asleep the second I close my eyes and I wake up eight hours later.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so lucky in that.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_04: Kent is so annoyed by it because he's, you know, a tosser and a turner and like a whatever, not me.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_04: I do.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's just cause I wear myself out during the day.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: And do you get up and run?
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_04: I get up at 5 45 every morning.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then how how long, how far do you run?
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_04: Just depends on what's going on.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I mean, like now for some dumb reason, I'm thinking I might run another marathon.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like, you have to run further, obviously.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_04: So you're training.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm not sure.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: But what is that?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: 30?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_04: 26.2 miles.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's far.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's too far.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's very far.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: It feels too far to run.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: The most I made it was seven miles.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_04: Seven miles is great.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was training for a half marathon, but I got shin splints.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: That's tough.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's tough.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_04: That just means your shins were compensating for something else, you know.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_04: But not everybody's meant to run.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: Just like I can't swim.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_04: I can't float in the pool.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_04: I can't, like, I don't like, I don't like my face getting wet.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_04: So everybody's good at different things.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: I just got back into the gym though, and it's making a huge difference for me in my terms of my execution.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it keeps you focused.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's weird because people think, oh, I don't have time to work out because I just got to get up and start doing my job.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_04: But if you take that hour or whatever, 45 minutes, hour, whatever it is, it will make you so much better the rest of the day.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's like when I had kids.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: So much better.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: The same thing happened where like you think, oh, all my time's going to go away.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm having kids now, like whatever.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_04: It was the opposite.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: I when I had kids, I learned how to be so much more efficient.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_04: So much more my perspective on what was a priority changed dramatically.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_04: So much more direct in my conversations.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was like the biggest, the biggest gift.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like honestly, the most obviously, but the most like no, I'm not saying this because you're supposed to say it, like truly the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_02: Having kids.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_04: Hands down.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I wish more females in the music industry people are afraid to have kids because they think it means they're gonna get out of the game.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: How old are you when you had your kids?
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_04: 34, 34, and 36.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not too late to do it then.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_04: No, people need to do it.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm asking everybody in my office.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm begging them, somebody, I'm like, somebody around here, I have a kid.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: Some freaking babies, it'll fix a lot of problems.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: And also, too, somebody said this the other day.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's nothing older in the music industry than a millennial without kids.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because for me, I'm a Gen Xer.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_04: For me, my kids, I I they're my market research.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, how are you using that?
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, what app are you on?
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, what is this?
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_04: This they have the social media app they use app lock it.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's what they're all on.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, show me what that is.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, explain this to me.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: Who are you finding?
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think about this artist?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or, you know, whatever.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like the best little research.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't have kids, you don't you don't know, you know?
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to rely on the Starbucks baristas.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta find out your answers.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_02: They taught me six, seven.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: I still don't know what it means, but that doesn't mean anything.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like clock it or lock it or something.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's all these things.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I need to know, I need to be hip in it.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I was playing, uh, I've been getting pitched songs because I'm gonna be doing something.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we were playing the songs for my eight-year-old niece.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_05: Perfect.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_05: I bet she gave you great feedback.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: And her favorite song's choosing Texas.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would play the song and she'd be like, next, and I would play it.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: We went through the 20 songs they sent, and I think she liked like three of them.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just so interesting studying her listening habits and how impatient she is for it to get to something extremely melodic or a vocal.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like the psychology of our attention spans having been trained by the attention economy.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's true, it is true.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_04: That would be a funny little bit to have like kids, like song, like you know how publishers or songwriters have to pitch their song saying our people, but just having it just be like kids between the ages of eight and twelve listening to the demos.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: What I did next, you'll get uh you'll dig this, was they didn't know this.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I started playing songs off the hot country playlist.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: So these are all like from the first song.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, it's probably Jordan Davis as we speak, but it wasn't at the time.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we just went from top to and I would let her do the same thing.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was interesting because I'm like, these were the songs that were picked in this playlist, and I had an eight and a 12-year-old sitting there, and they'd be like, boring next, boring, and they don't know that they're pitch songs or that they're released songs that are being pushed on the biggest playlist for country music, yeah, arguably in the world.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, correct.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's so interesting.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_04: So were they spot on on like things that were hits and not hits, you know what I mean?
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Haley.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think it really came down to intros.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think songs have become like TikToks or reels.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like you almost have to you have like that 1.7 seconds to get attention.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that little musical hook is critical.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's gotta be, it can't just be chords anymore and strumming unless it's like Steven Wilson Jr.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: and it's just way, way left of center in terms of the like sonically.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like, yeah, it's like get to it or have a great melody.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or tempo.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying, at least.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: For getting at ears.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's the piece of advice that people should ask you that no one asks you?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think a I would say uh I would love for more people, kind of what we were just talking about, to ask about family and work.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_04: And and are those things both possible to have in the music industry?
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because they are.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_04: But I think a lot of people don't think they are, and so they avoid that part of their life, you know?
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_04: To be the person that I want to be for them, to show up for my kids how I want to show up for them, I have to have a job.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_04: I have to work.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_04: If I didn't work, if I quit everything and like you sit, I'm sitting at home, I would probably grow a little resentful and I wouldn't be the person that I want to be.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_04: And you want your kids to see yourself in the best version of you.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they're gonna take after your example for sure.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about following a dream myself, and my son's gonna see that.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and know it's possible.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, yes, one of the beautiful things as we wrap this podcast up is when Kent hung hung it up at UMPG as the head honcho, the C-suite man.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and you said to him, Hey, I'm gonna carry us to the finish line.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_04: That was like one of the most And now look what he's doing.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: That was one of the most remarkable things, though, and I thought it was so sweet and beautiful that you guys had that conversation.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: You said, Hey, babe, you've worked your butt up.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let me take it from here.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's true because I think about when I was building when I, after I left BMG and started an independent publishing company, I was I wasn't making much money.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_04: And Kent was was really the one that was like, yeah, carrying the family along, the insurance, and all the things, you know, that go into it.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_04: And those, there's a pressure there inherently.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was obviously wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing now and then got into management, wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing now.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I would have figured it out, but it obviously are for our family structure, it would have looked a lot different, you know, had he not worked so hard at that time.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so appreciative of it.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so then when I have the opportunity, it's like, dude, give me the ball and let me run with it.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_04: I got it, I got it.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think it's just it's it's great.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that good relationships, people feel like mutually, mutual respect for each other's victories, not competitive in any way, shape, or form.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so then for Kent, now his publishing company is thriving.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how wonderful is that?
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think probably because he was able to able to alleviate some of that pressure off of his shoulders, and just do what he loves.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Crush it.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, on the terms, on the terms that are right for him.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_04: What he's doing now is what he's kind of like for me getting out of publishing into management.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think for Kent, what he's doing now, he was meant to do.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that shows because he's having great success.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's awesome.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_04: They got they got the C Sac song of the year for thank God.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, choosing Texas should get every trophy that's ever been made.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've really appreciated you being on this podcast and talking about kind of revealing some things that you may have not talked about on podcasts before.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, I appreciate you having me.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I think it's you're very motivating, your energy is like very palpable.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like um I always think about like the manager types and stuff like that, and um just like throughout my life speaking to different types of managers, I always felt like they were people that were my boss instead of it being a mutual thing.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that you've talked about your work relationship and relationship with Kane has been interesting because it's been very much like it sounds like a mutual respect.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: 100% copilot, co-pilot, and um you you have the you have it, obviously it shows in your career, but just sitting in a room with you, I feel like I can read people pretty good.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's cool to be able to experience your your vibe.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, appreciate it.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a deep empath.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but um, yeah, you're just very kind and and I appreciate your time.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um is there anything that you feel like we should point people to?
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, your artists that you're develop working on.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think we have an incredible roster.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I would love everyone to discover their music.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, Kane Brown.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we recently signed Randall King, who is an incredible Texas artist.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_04: Julia Cole, Julia Cole, who I mentioned, Knightly, if you love indie pop music.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we have Restless Road, who's our band harmony-driven band that we've had for a while.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe some other things, some other things on the horizon.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_04: So just keep a lookout for that.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a website with all of the stuff on it?
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it's just neon-coast.com.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_04: But if that's wrong, we'll cut this part out.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Neon dash coast.com.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love it.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that it's uh doesn't represent the West Coast or the East Coast.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's Neon Coast, it's Nashville.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's the Nash Coast, it's Nashville.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_04: I love this town.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And my whole place is um SoCal, where my dad grew up and Haley was born.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And these are all like pictures of that.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Got the Eric Clapton one from down there.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my son journaling.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_02: I took all these pictures.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, very coastal vibe I went for on the set.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Neon Coast, neon dash coast.com.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's check that.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Check the Instagram too.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_03: At Neon Dash Coast.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_02: At neon dash coast.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you guys tuning in.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um over half of you are not subscribed, and it's your free gift to the podcast.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you can just smash that subscribe button, leave a comment, leave a review, share it if you loved it.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it helps us get guests like today's guest, Martha Earls, who is absolutely awesome, and it's been a treat talking to you.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, everybody be kind to someone.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Buy them a drink, buy them a Starbucks and the line behind you in the drive thru this week.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll see you guys back here next Wednesday.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.