Latest / The Action Catalyst / Done Success, Ready for Significance, with Tanis Jorge (Entrepreneurship, Tech, Business, Founders)

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Done Success, Ready for Significance, with Tanis Jorge (Entrepreneurship, Tech, Business, Founders) · The Action Catalyst

0:00
Tanis Jorge: Hi, good to meet you, Stephanie.
0:01
Stephanie Maas: Hey, you too, I was super excited to spend some
0:03
time with you. In preparation for our time when I was reading
0:08
about your background and some of your accomplishments, there
0:12
was actually a quote that made me think of you from Rihanna.
0:16
Oh, yes. So, obviously, some of your notable accomplishments are
0:21
being one of three Canadian women accomplishing what you
0:25
have done this elite status. And the quote from Rihanna says
0:30
there's something special about a woman who dominates in a man's
0:34
world. It takes a certain grace, strength, intelligence,
0:39
fearlessness, and the nerve to never take no for an answer.
0:44
Tanis Jorge: Wow, that's awesome.
0:47
Stephanie Maas: So I thought maybe we could kind of start
0:49
there. As you've made this journey. I don't think you are
0:53
the typical formula for the kind of success you've had,
0:58
especially as a woman in a male dominated world totally.
1:01
Tanis Jorge: Okay. Sure. So I grew up in, in a family of
1:06
salespeople, I guess that was the the start of it. My dad was
1:11
had a very successful business, which started off as a door to
1:15
door vacuum cleaner sales in the 70s. So that's, that's kind of
1:19
where we start off with. So growing up, my dad would really
1:23
use that as a framework for how he raised me. So for example,
1:27
you know, he always said to me, tennis, everything is a numbers
1:31
game, you just work hard. And eventually, you'll succeed. And,
1:36
you know, I took that to heart. And I think it actually gave me
1:39
a set of confidence that I could succeed. And whatever I put my
1:43
hand to, I guess, was the overarching understanding that I
1:48
took away from that. And I think that was really, I mean, if
1:51
everything really is just a numbers game, then, you know,
1:54
that's exciting for anybody who's got grit and
1:57
determination. So I pretty much always expected success, and it
2:00
was on me to fail. From there. I had a public school education,
2:05
you know, through elementary school, went to a private
2:07
school, in high school. And that was where I met two key figures
2:11
in my life. That was where I ended up meeting my husband, and
2:14
my long term business partner. So two people that were in high
2:18
school that definitely changed the trajectory of my life.
2:21
Little did I know it, I wasn't really scholastic. I was an
2:24
academic, I was there to socialize, we had a good time.
2:28
But one of the things that I did notice in high school was, it
2:33
didn't make sense to me that there was this formula for what
2:37
was deemed as you were a good student that didn't I didn't
2:41
fall into and again, an example of that was, I did a project I
2:45
remember one time in particular, that I kind of really went out
2:48
of the box to answer the questions and to really complete
2:52
the project. They wanted just, you know, some an essay, they
2:56
wanted worksheets filled in. And what I did was I did like a
2:59
video back in the 90s. So this was like, it took a lot of work
3:02
to do a mix video in the 90s. And I did this video, and I
3:06
remember getting like a C minus and the reason for that was
3:10
because you know, you while you didn't answer these questions
3:13
long enough, and I just thought, wow, like I really I did
3:16
something really unique here. And, and I think it was at that
3:20
point that I really felt tainted by the education system. And I
3:23
think I started to see how maybe entrepreneurship was going to be
3:27
the route that I was gonna go, you know, college university
3:30
never was anything that I was interested in. And it wasn't too
3:33
long after our graduation. I was about a year and a half later
3:38
that my best friend in high school Steven offered called me
3:41
and said, I have an idea for a business and he never went to
3:43
college or university either. I said, Sure. Let's give it a go
3:47
and more for me. The idea of working with him on a project
3:51
again, it was about fun. I'm very highly motivated by fun. So
3:55
Little did I know that was going to be the next two decades of my
3:59
life building businesses with him. What was your first job,
4:03
telemarketing, actually, I sold McLean shuttling and flair,
4:08
which is magazines in Canada. So magazine subscriptions, and then
4:13
I moved on to selling carpet cleaning telemarketing, I was
4:18
probably I want to say, probably 13 or 14 years old, and I did
4:24
that and then waitressing after that.
4:27
Stephanie Maas: Ok, so then you got your buddy who calls and
4:30
says, Hey, let's do this project. Yes. You know, you're
4:32
what? 20 at the time?
4:34
Tanis Jorge: Exactly.
4:35
Stephanie Maas: Where did you go for resources?
4:38
Tanis Jorge: So, you know, looking back, I realize we we
4:45
were very brave, or we actually just jumped in and and one of
4:50
the takeaways from that experience was the amount of
4:54
times that Steven and I would say to ourselves, why did they
4:57
teach us this in school? You know, Why were we not taught
5:02
some of this stuff? That's just very common sense. And not even
5:05
just about the actual knowledge of running a business, but also
5:09
the mentality that's required within it, you know, really
5:12
setting you up to understand that it's not easy. You know,
5:15
again, I was fortunate, I think that my father's, you know,
5:18
mantras in my head, hey, just keep going. It's a numbers game.
5:22
That was was a big part of it. But honestly, we really felt our
5:26
way through everything. There was a shift in technology, we
5:31
were really learning that the tech scene was not very mature
5:36
yet. So this was a time when it was $50,000. If you wanted to
5:40
build a website, you know, now you can do it with, you know,
5:43
free on Wix. Right. So it was a very different time. And we had
5:47
to be very strategic on the capital that we had, and really
5:53
anticipate what we were doing. And it was really, it was a
5:56
trial and error in so many ways.
5:59
Stephanie Maas: So that first project, what level of success
6:02
did it have?
6:03
Tanis Jorge: So we built that company, it took us three years,
6:08
and it was successfully acquired after three years.
6:10
Stephanie Maas: Bought by Experian?
6:13
Tanis Jorge: Exactly. And then we built two more companies.
6:15
After that each of them took about three years to build, and
6:18
successfully exit. They were also acquired. So over 10 years,
6:21
three companies, all of them were acquired. So we were very
6:25
fortunate for that, too.
6:27
Stephanie Maas: If you don't mind being vulnerable enough to
6:29
share, what were some of the challenges that you faced? How
6:33
did you overcome them?
6:35
Tanis Jorge: So it was very interesting. So for 10 years, I
6:38
built three companies. And then we started Trulioo, which was
6:42
our biggest venture that we had. And about three or four years
6:46
into that venture, I started to get questions, you know, I start
6:51
to get calls from people saying, listen, could I have you come
6:53
and speak about being a woman in tech? And I remember the very
6:57
first time I was asked that, and I thought that was a very odd
7:01
question. Because I had never thought about myself in that
7:06
world as a woman, like it never was a major component that I
7:11
considered, I never actually saw it as ways of being an advantage
7:15
at times, actually. And, and I think it was interesting, co
7:20
founding a business as a, like a male, female, we actually took
7:24
advantage of that, we learned about human personality. And we
7:28
started to identify that there was people who were sometimes
7:32
more comfortable around men or more comfortable around women.
7:35
And there were times would be like, we would say to one
7:38
another, a, you take this because I think she likes you.
7:43
You know, she hasn't, she's more comfortable around here, she
7:45
doesn't seem to, you know, maybe that was the case. And so for us
7:49
building our businesses, it was a small element. And when it was
7:54
utilized, it was to our advantage, so to speak of it as
7:59
a woman in a man's world, I can honestly say I didn't ever
8:03
really feel that was my experience. And it's
8:06
interesting, as I've had the opportunity to speak to women in
8:10
different venues about business, I find that the response I get
8:14
afterwards, especially from young female entrepreneurs, is
8:19
almost a sigh of relief, that they really believe sometimes
8:22
that going out into these industries that are male
8:25
dominant, that it's going to be a terrifying experience. And to
8:29
hear that in many cases, it's just going to be normal, and
8:32
it's going to fall on you having an incredible business model.
8:36
And that's where the pressure is gonna lie. I think it can
8:39
actually take a little bit of pressure off of these young
8:42
young women. And you know, we were the underdogs in many ways
8:45
already. because of our lack of formal education. I say
8:47
underdogs, if anybody approached us about anything, it was about
8:51
the fact that, Oh, you don't have a universe, like what
8:54
degrees do you have? And if anything, if there was anything
8:57
we were pushing back on, it was our lack of education. So maybe
9:02
if I was focused on anything that I thought needy was, was
9:05
what would be putting us at a disadvantage? It was that
9:09
component.
9:11
Stephanie Maas: Okay, so now talking about this
9:13
entrepreneurial mindset, because one of the things I do think
9:15
that's coming out of this next generation, is I think that they
9:19
are way more entrepreneurial by nature than mine or the
9:23
generation before etc. So when folks are and you mentioned
9:29
something about this, about this, just mindset a little bit.
9:32
What do you think sets that entrepreneurial mindset apart
9:36
from the rest?
9:38
Tanis Jorge: Yeah, you know, it's risk aversion. I just had a
9:41
I had an advisor meeting with somebody yesterday, you know, he
9:45
started off on What books should I be reading? You know, what,
9:48
what do I need to get ready? What did you think of this and
9:51
really in depth in depth questions, and I said to him,
9:55
ultimately, at some point, you're not going to have all
9:57
your ducks in a row. At some point. You got to jump off the
10:00
cliff, and you're not going to know what's at the bottom,
10:02
you're going to pull your parachute. And it may or may not
10:04
be there. And you need to understand that you will never
10:09
know exactly the next step in front of you. And I think for a
10:13
lot of people, even just their core personality is not set for
10:17
that environment, I actually very much flourish, I seek that
10:21
environment out. So I know that I'm already built internally in
10:25
that way. But at the same time, I've also had experience under
10:29
my belt, and I understand that you will never know everything,
10:33
and you just have to go for it. And I think that is what
10:37
separates the entrepreneur from someone who stays in, say a
10:42
corporate job is they they get to the point where the security
10:47
is no longer there, and they have to make that decision. Do I
10:50
continue? Or do I? Do I stop, because it's too risky. That's
10:55
where the rubber meets the road. And that will determine whether
10:58
or not you up and down. So it really is just saying, I'm going
11:02
to do this.
11:04
Stephanie Maas: I love that. I think being true to yourself to
11:06
your point you go I flourish in those environments. And if you
11:10
don't, that might be something you need to listen to. And if
11:14
you don't do, that's probably something you need to listen to
11:17
as well.
11:17
Tanis Jorge: Absolutely, and I had my co founder, I had Steven
11:21
as well. And I think you know, it is extremely valuable to have
11:25
that person beside you. So when you're down, they're there to
11:28
lift you up. That's a big piece as well in success. So if you
11:32
are more of a risk adverse person, or if you really worry
11:37
about that journey ahead, finding that person beside you
11:41
to run along with you is one of the probably one of the greatest
11:45
assets that you can have.
11:47
Stephanie Maas: So that's exactly where I wanted to go
11:48
next. So you mentioned Hey, for you, you were lucky to meet this
11:51
person in high school? Yes, I would imagine by the time you
11:54
guys started working together, there's a there was a foundation
11:57
of a relationship. There was trust, most people aren't going
12:01
to probably have that. So what do they look for? How do they
12:04
know this is the right partnership? And I know part of
12:07
it is trial and error. But what other counsel would you give to
12:11
help with that?
12:12
Tanis Jorge: Yeah, so I've been fortunate as I've, as I
12:16
researched for my book, I have talked with hundreds of
12:20
entrepreneurs and hundreds of co founders, and heard their
12:23
stories of how they met people. And interestingly, it runs the
12:28
gamut. I have had people who never met their co founder and
12:33
they that person flew over to their city, and they met at the
12:36
airport for the first time only after a couple of conversations.
12:39
You know, that was one story to people who its family, it's
12:43
their best friend, it's people they met at a at a conference,
12:47
it's people they met at work, it was an old high school friend,
12:50
or an old elementary school friend that they ran into at the
12:53
grocery store and got talking about something, you really
12:56
never know where that person is that that can come into your
13:00
life. And for people who are need to be, you know,
13:03
aggressively looking for a co founder, there's tons of
13:06
different ways that you can do that, whether through meetups or
13:10
really going after your network, one of the things that I say to
13:14
people is that you are going to need to do the first task of an
13:20
entrepreneur and that is put yourself out there. And so it's
13:24
talking to people to say listening, I listen, I'm looking
13:26
for a business partner. This is a bit about what the role will
13:30
entail. This is a bit about my business. Do you know anybody?
13:33
Do you maybe know somebody that I can do an intro me and I'll
13:36
reach out to them and, and I think for some people, that's
13:39
scary as well. But really utilizing your network and
13:43
taking advantage of those people who know you and know the people
13:46
that will give the recommendation. That's a big
13:48
one.
13:50
Stephanie Maas: As you think about what you've done, up until
13:53
this point, you know, it's easy to look at your accomplishments
13:57
and say, Oh, you must be so proud. You must be so proud. But
13:59
I'm always surprised when I ask folks this questions. While they
14:03
appreciate the accolades, they appreciate that, quite frankly,
14:07
Tanis you're probably in the midst of making history. You
14:11
know, my kids, kids are probably going to learn about you in 2030
14:16
years from now. But for you like when you think about what you've
14:20
done so far, what are the things you're most proud of what really
14:23
puts a smile on your face before you fall asleep at night?
14:27
Tanis Jorge: I guess it would be the beats the odds story. You
14:30
kicked the podcast off in the very beginning and just said,
14:33
you know, you didn't have that typical journey. And I think
14:36
that that has been something that I am proud of. I had big
14:40
dreams as a little girl. I always did. I always aspired for
14:45
more. And I looked around me, and I wondered how I would get
14:50
that we lived in you know, my parents live paycheck to
14:53
paycheck in a lot of ways. I lived in a not so great
14:56
neighborhood, and I knew that there was mega success. stuff
15:00
out there. And I had no idea how that was ever going to come
15:04
about. I didn't have the network, my parents didn't have
15:07
any connections for me, there was nothing. So, you know, I
15:11
think it's having that vision that I had at an early stage, I
15:15
had vision boards at 17, you know, on my fridge of everything
15:19
and, and I really had these big dreams and the fact that I am
15:23
where I am today, and I complement it, it's actually
15:26
surprising because the steps along the way, I'd never
15:28
thought, Here I am, I'm building. I'm building what, you
15:31
know, the successful experience. At the time, it did not feel
15:36
that it was like, What am I doing? I was spinning my wheels
15:40
here, you know, and then after a few years goes by them, but we
15:43
had a success. Okay, great. And then the question goes, Well, I
15:46
gotta do that again. You know, every time we built a business,
15:49
it was back at scratch again, it was what are the chances of
15:52
succeeding a second time, you know, and that that
15:55
discouragement, almost in doubt, is really, really heavy. And
15:58
then we did it a second time. And it was like, Okay, that was
16:01
a fluke. You know, it's got to be deep in the back of your
16:04
mind, you're like, how are we going to do it again, we have to
16:07
do it again, you know, and then slowly, you start to see that,
16:12
oh, maybe we've got a system here. Maybe we've got a bit of a
16:15
pattern that we're able to duplicate. But at the time, it
16:19
didn't feel like that. So I guess I'm most proud that that I
16:21
took that journey, despite really deep down feeling I
16:25
wouldn't succeed necessarily.
16:28
Stephanie Maas: Ok, I've got a silly question.
16:29
Tanis Jorge: Oh, I like silly questions.
16:30
Stephanie Maas: Okay. So you come from, you know, a certain
16:35
kind of background. You mentioned earlier, having to,
16:38
you know, develop your own financial literacy. So that
16:41
first big paycheck, what fun thing did you buy yourself?
16:45
Tanis Jorge: Oh gosh, I paid debts off. And the first like
16:54
two, three businesses. I think of geez, we went straight to
17:02
real estate, a condo is still there's still a condo, but we
17:06
splurged and we bought in this neighborhood that we've always
17:09
wanted, as by the beach. And I think that would have been
17:12
really definitely where we we sunk our first sort of extra
17:16
cash.
17:19
Stephanie Maas: So what's next?
17:20
Tanis Jorge: So when Trulioo, my final venture, I decided that it
17:25
was time for me to exit the day to day and I stepped out, I was
17:28
trying to figure out what it is that I wanted to do with my
17:30
life. And I looked at two things. One was I love to
17:34
travel, and I love to public speak. Those are the two things
17:38
that I really enjoyed. And I thought, well, what am I going
17:40
to talk about? And I could obviously talk about
17:43
entrepreneurship had had some success under under my belt, so
17:46
I could talk about that. But I felt that was crowded. And then
17:48
I thought about the people again, who would approach me and
17:51
said, How have you built multiple businesses with the
17:53
same person, and you haven't killed each other yet? You know,
17:56
that was the premise. And I realized, as I started to do
17:59
research, that there wasn't a lot of tools for people. And I
18:02
have a huge passion for entrepreneurship, I think it is
18:04
the foundation of our financial system. I think it is this
18:08
foundation of our nations, I think it's so important, those
18:12
dreamers are so valuable. And I figured this would be a way that
18:15
I could really help entrepreneurs out by assisting
18:19
in the partnership. And so I began on a journey, just
18:22
interviewing co founders. And I wrote the book, the co founders
18:26
handbook, from that, I've realized, again, that there is
18:30
even more that can be done to assist co founders. So we I
18:34
started the co founders hub, which is a platform and resource
18:37
for entrepreneurs to be able to build stronger partnerships.
18:40
There's tools, resources, there's there's events coming
18:44
and, and all of this, and I'm really at that stage now where
18:48
I've done success ready for significance. And at the same
18:52
time, really want to build into the next stage of entrepreneurs
18:57
that are out there in the grind, and they've got this person
19:00
beside them. And that person is are their greatest asset or
19:04
their biggest liability in their business. And I want to make
19:07
sure that it is the greatest asset.
19:09
Stephanie Maas: Very cool. A lot has changed since you first
19:12
started your first business with you know, it's I think it's a
19:15
lot more commonplace. We see side hustles all the time
19:19
popping up, which I think to your point is that's really the
19:21
foundation of most of our world. And I think we got away from it
19:26
as a society for a while. And I think with this next generation,
19:30
especially it's really coming back thoughts advice, counsel,
19:35
first thing you want to share with someone who says, Hey, I
19:37
think I want to be an entrepreneur.
19:39
Tanis Jorge: So I the first thing that I would tell people
19:41
is obviously if you can find a mentor, find an idea, obviously,
19:47
that fills a need, and find somebody who's succeeding in
19:50
some way or another in that and sit at their feet. And it'd be
19:54
humble. I think one of the key messages for today's generation
19:59
is to really also I've understand it's going to be
20:01
hard. And and, and it's going to be more expensive and take more
20:05
time, like the classic story of all businesses. But it's also I
20:10
think, one of the greatest achievements one can have in
20:13
their life. And so being able to really undertake that journey is
20:18
worth it for anybody. So I would tell them, find a mentor, really
20:22
anticipate what it will take to get that business up and going,
20:27
get educated in that industry, obviously, but also recognize
20:32
that every business has sales in the end. So always add education
20:37
and sales, you're gonna have to pitch yourself, even if you're a
20:40
dentist, you have to you got to be in sales. So really, you
20:43
know, getting that well rounded. But mostly, it's that mentality
20:48
that this is going to be a sacrifice, you won't have all
20:51
the answers, but enjoy the journey as you do it.
20:55
Stephanie Maas: No, I think that is so powerful. I appreciate you
20:57
sharing that. Because especially in this day and age of instant
21:01
gratification, you see what is set up to look like oh, they
21:06
just hit it big overnight. And when you really delve into
21:09
people's stories, it really wasn't like that. And even your
21:12
story from the outside could almost appear that way. Hey, you
21:15
know, three businesses, they were all great. But to your
21:17
point, you said it takes longer. It's more work and it costs
21:20
more. That's reality. Yeah, if you're living for the get rich
21:25
quick and publicity of it all, you're probably going to be in
21:28
for incredibly rude awakening, and it'll be short lived.
21:32
Tanis Jorge: Absolutely. If there is any any side note on
21:35
that, too, is that I we never took a paycheck until we sold
21:39
our business. We didn't have that luxury. So we worked
21:43
always. So when people say Oh, you were so lucky. I'm like,
21:46
Well, would you go three years without a paycheck? And you're
21:49
writing checks to your employees? And you're like,
21:52
hoping out we never we never took a paycheck until our
21:55
businesses sold. So again, that is that's a key piece of it as
22:00
well.
22:02
Stephanie Maas: So another silly question if I could. So our
22:04
mothership Southwestern family companies, we got our start, it
22:07
was a publishing company, but became really, we really made
22:10
our name for ourselves through working with students, and they
22:14
go out and sell books door to door in the summer. Oh, it's an
22:17
incredible program called Southwestern advantage. It's
22:20
just really amazing. You know, you work 1216 hours a day, you
22:24
save every dime that you possibly can for the idea of
22:28
this big check at the end of the summer. And so, to this day, one
22:33
of my favorite poor man meals or woman meals, whatever you want
22:36
to call it, is a peanut butter and jelly. Like that's what I
22:39
ate all summer long to save money. Bread was cheap. Peanut
22:43
butter was cheap. Jelly is cheap, it would keep all day
22:45
long, so I didn't have to worry about refrigerating it. To this
22:48
day. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is a comfort food for
22:51
me. Even though it was a really hard time. I was working my butt
22:54
off. You know all these things. But it's a comfort food. So do
22:57
you have a poor woman's something that you ate? That
23:01
takes you back to those days?
23:03
Tanis Jorge: Yeah for sure. I think it would be chicken with
23:07
cream of mushroom soup with a can of cream of mushroom soup.
23:11
And like, really like white? White bread like super, super
23:15
thick, fluffy, filled with chemicals? Not like white toast
23:22
bread with a to dip in the cream of mushroom soup with your
23:25
chicken?
23:28
Stephanie Maas: So you're laid up in bed, your husband's like,
23:29
Honey, what can I make for you? And you're like, I need the
23:32
chicken with cream of mushroom. Please? And the really bad
23:35
bread.
23:38
Tanis Jorge: Exactly. Exactly. That's totally it. I love it.
23:43
Stephanie Maas: Anything else you want to make sure we talk
23:45
about or hit on while we're together?
23:49
Tanis Jorge: I don't know. You know, I think that for me,
23:52
obviously the message right now is to to talk to people who are
23:55
in a partnership and who are looking to get into one about
23:57
the kind of the hard work that that's going to take so many
24:00
people focus when they start a business on how are they going
24:03
to get to revenues? How are they going to build an incredible
24:08
product. But what they don't realize is that 65% of
24:12
businesses are going to fail because of issues between the
24:15
founders. If people are not being intentional with that
24:19
relationship, often they do kind of a set it and forget it
24:22
experience where they just sign the partnership agreement.
24:25
That's the last time they ever put any thought into it. And
24:29
unfortunately, what I see over and over again, is issues and
24:34
conflict arising which is really, you know, preventable in
24:38
so many ways. And it's unfortunate and this is why I
24:41
wrote the book is because it doesn't need to be that way. It
24:45
doesn't take much but it takes maturity to build that
24:49
relationship. And I think that that is my focus right now is to
24:53
really explain to people that it's not something that you can
24:56
just jump into and let alone you actually be on a daily, weekly,
25:01
monthly annually basis have to sit down and go, How are we?
25:05
Stephanie Maas: Oh my god, it sounds like a marriage,
25:07
Tanis Jorge: It is I will completely the only difference.
25:10
The only difference is that...
25:12
Stephanie Maas: The sex? Just kidding.
25:15
Tanis Jorge: No partners with benefits, thats number one.
25:22
Absolutely no, that I think that the only difference is is that
25:26
in a marriage, you're focused on each other's happiness. But if
25:30
you can, in a partnership, you want to focus on the happiness
25:33
of the business. And I think if you run everything through that
25:36
filter, which is what is this the best thing for the business,
25:41
then any situation or issue that arises, there are actually ways
25:46
to remedy them. Without the emotional, I always take the
25:50
example of people who want a family member, their spouse or
25:53
their kid to work in the business. And the other partner
25:55
doesn't want that, you know, if I say I don't want your wife in
25:58
the business, you know, that's highly emotional charged
26:02
comment. So you can say, Oh, interesting, what's best for the
26:06
business? Is she the right person for the role? Are we
26:09
going to make the best decision? Is it going to affect culture,
26:12
for the business, you know, these kinds of things, it can
26:15
kind of take that away. So while in many ways, it parallels a
26:19
marriage in that particular way. It should and needs to have a
26:24
different filter that everything's run through. It
26:27
sounds so logical, it does. But when you're in the
26:29
entrepreneurial journey, it's a roller coaster, you're
26:32
constantly putting on full out fires, you're constantly on this
26:35
person, you can take them for granted very easily. But if you
26:40
can make sure that you are to each other that cheerleader,
26:44
that coach, that accountability partner, then that journey is so
26:49
much easier and so much better. It seems easy, but just like in
26:52
a marriage, it's very easy to take people for granted.
26:55
Stephanie Maas: Well it seems logical, but to your point,
26:57
we're very emotional beings. So super helpful. Tanis, thank you
27:02
so much. I've really appreciated you carving out some time
27:05
thoroughly enjoyed our time together.
27:07
Tanis Jorge: I really appreciate it. Thank you, Stephanie.