Latest / The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke / 130: From Pharma to Photobiomodulation: Sarah Turner’s Journey Into Light-Based Healing

Transcript

130: From Pharma to Photobiomodulation: Sarah Turner’s Journey Into Light-Based Healing · The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke

5:00
Meredith Oke: Sarah Turner, welcome back to the QVC podcast.
5:04
It's a pleasure to see you again. I'm excited to
5:08
dive into neuroscience with you.
5:13
Sarah Turner: Thank you. It's always a pleasure to chat to you
5:16
and be on your show.
5:18
Meredith Oke: Super fun. So for those of us who just joined us,
5:20
we are doing this live with an, with an audience.
5:23
Members of the QVC Pro community are here
5:27
listening to my interview with Sarah and then
5:30
they will all be invited to do a Q and A. So this
5:33
is a slightly different format than usual. So,
5:35
Sarah, let's start off. You've been on the
5:39
podcast before and we did kind of a deep dive
5:41
into your background. So I really recommend
5:43
people go listen to that episode. It was really
5:46
good, but I would like to go over it again just a
5:50
little bit. Your background in neuroscience, your
5:55
training in red light therapy, your deep dive
5:57
into Parkinson's research, how did it all happen?
6:01
And how did you end up in this weird area of
6:06
health instead of working for a pharmaceutical
6:10
company?
6:11
Sarah Turner: Well, funny enough, I did start out at the
6:13
pharmaceutical company. So my, my background is I
6:18
was a scientific researcher at pharmaceutical
6:21
companies for, for the first 10 years of my
6:23
career. And I spent six years with
6:25
GlaxoSmithKline, one of the biggest, well,
6:28
biggest worldwide, but certainly the biggest in
6:30
the uk. And I was looking at researching not
6:35
actually drugs, but more drug delivery devices.
6:39
So I was involved in asthma delivery and more
6:42
specifically, I was on a task force. You know, if
6:45
there's issues that came up, a task force was
6:47
sent in to resolve the issue quickly. And one of
6:50
the main issues that they were looking at at some
6:52
point was why do these asthma. The new. They had
6:57
new asthma inhaler devices. Why were they not
6:59
working as they were expected? Because they knew
7:02
the drug was good, but for some reason, when they
7:04
put it out in these, they were like a spherical
7:06
plastic inhaler, a bit of a change from their
7:09
usual ones. And what we found very rapidly was
7:13
it's because the plastic causes a static charge.
7:16
And so if the, if the artificial lung, because
7:20
that's what we were testing, we don't test in
7:22
humans in these labs, you know, everything's
7:24
tested, you know, in a kind of a simulation. But
7:27
if that wasn't grounded because these plastic
7:31
devices actually made a static charge, then you
7:34
got a different deposition of the drug in the
7:37
lung. And so I did a lot of experiments where I
7:39
was grounded, where I was not grounded, where I
7:41
wore like rubber welly boots, where I wore like
7:44
special. An outfit that had silver in it. So that
7:48
we knew I was grounded. I attached myself to,
7:51
like the bed. Oh, it's the fairies. That's like a
7:56
fairy chime. But what I found was it makes a big
8:02
difference whether actually you're grounded on
8:04
not whether where the drug will deposit in the
8:06
lung. And to me, this was kind of a bit of a
8:09
revelation because it was nothing to do with
8:11
actually the inhaler or the drug delivery. It was
8:13
purely the state of where you're delivering that
8:16
drug. Right. In that case, it was into the. We
8:18
call them stacks, into the kind of simulation of
8:21
a lung. But in reality, the implication is that
8:25
if the person isn't grounded or hasn't touched
8:27
the ground, that the drug is going to. The drug
8:31
is to deposit in a different place in the body.
8:34
And so really the solution for the problem is
8:36
just to make sure everybody is grounded before
8:39
they start taking these drugs, because
8:40
potentially you would need less drugs or maybe
8:43
even no drug at all if that was kind of the
8:46
problem with the lung function in the first
8:48
place. So that is really fascinating why I left.
8:54
One of many reasons. But I think that was
8:56
probably like the straw that broke the camel's
8:58
back from why I left the pharmaceuticals. Because
9:00
really, the solution is not necessarily
9:02
necessarily then in the pharmaceutical. It's
9:05
really in the environment of the person. And
9:08
that's something that is so easy to modify. You
9:10
know, something as simple as standing out on the
9:12
ground for 10 minutes could have sold that
9:14
solution of this. This strange drug deposition in
9:19
the lung.
9:21
Meredith Oke: Isn't that incredible? And it's so interesting to
9:23
me how, you know, living as we all exist in the
9:26
quantum field, you never know what, where. What
9:29
thread is going to lead us to that next insight.
9:34
So you were trying to figure out why the drug
9:36
delivery system didn't work, and you ended up
9:39
uncovering the science of grounding and how
9:43
important it is to humans, which is a completely
9:45
different paradigm than what the pharmaceutical
9:47
company was operating in.
9:49
Sarah Turner: It's a completely different paradigm. And
9:51
actually, with credit to Glaxo, they did actually
9:53
start to initiate some very interesting studies
9:56
into all kinds of like bipolar drug deposition in
10:00
the lung, different kinds of plastics, different
10:03
kinds of effects. I mean, ultimately they're just
10:05
looking for a plastic that doesn't cause the
10:07
effects. You know, they're not ultimately looking
10:09
for solutions for people to dissipate the effect
10:14
in themselves. You know, which is. Which is
10:17
really what is available to everybody. I mean,
10:20
they are still a business. But it was a very
10:21
interesting insight for me about how charge in
10:25
the body specifically can have a very dramatic
10:28
effect. And you know, we were talking about
10:30
inhaled products, but you can apply that to
10:33
anything that's inhaled. You know, we're inhaling
10:35
fine particles and things in our environments all
10:37
the time. You know, whether that's for the good
10:40
or for the bad. The way that our bodies respond
10:43
to our environment very much depends on the
10:46
charge in our bodies. So, you know, in order to
10:49
maximize the efficacy of all the systems in the
10:52
body, something very simple like grounding and
10:54
kind of. We know this now. There's been a lot of
10:56
books written about earthing and grounding, but
10:58
this is a very real demonstration of that. So,
11:02
yes, that was very interesting for me. And then I
11:04
left the pharmaceutical industry and I actually
11:06
pursued nutritional medicine because for me, that
11:08
was the next step. It's like, okay, how can we
11:10
best prepare the body? We can do grounding, but
11:12
maybe we can also change ourselves from the
11:15
inside with nutrition. But actually, that didn't
11:18
go far enough because for a lot of times, you
11:20
know, your mindset is. Your mind state is so
11:23
intrinsically linked that you can change your
11:25
nutrition and not have an effect. So I went on to
11:28
study clinical neuroscience, and that was really
11:31
where I started to learn more about the brain and
11:34
brain function and then start to look at ways to
11:37
modify brain function. You know, my focus changed
11:40
from that point. I moved to the States. I got
11:43
involved in the whole biohacking movement. I did
11:47
Jack Cruz Cruise. I studied various people. I
11:50
went and interviewed May Wan Ho. So. So that was
11:53
the point really, I suppose, about 15 years ago
11:56
when I moved to the States, that I got mostly
11:58
involved in looking very seriously at the brain
12:01
and brain function and ways that we could modify
12:03
that with an alternative medicine slant.
12:07
Meredith Oke: Right. And what were some of the insights that
12:11
you had that were different from traditional
12:15
neuroscience?
12:17
Sarah Turner: Yes, well, of course, I think probably your group
12:21
probably knows this very well, but most
12:23
traditional courses is in biology and
12:25
neuroscience are not teaching biophysics, you
12:28
know, so. So at this point, I had three science
12:31
degrees because I had already got a biology
12:34
science degree. I went and got my nutritional
12:36
medicine degree, and then I had a clinical
12:37
neuroscience master's degree. At no point did
12:40
anybody ever mention how biology interacts with
12:44
light, how potentially water changes its
12:47
structure when you have an interaction with
12:50
light. Nobody was really talking a lot, even
12:52
about circadian biology. So we was. I was still
12:56
much taught the kind of lock and key, kind of
12:59
more biochemical view of the brain, even with all
13:03
of that education. So it wasn't really. Until I
13:06
really started getting into the work of, like I
13:07
say, Dr. May Wan Ho, Dr. Jack Cruz, you know, all
13:11
of the people who went then and all of the people
13:13
who went before, because obviously there was lots
13:15
of people talking about light, for example, a
13:19
long time before then. But they were, they were
13:21
the ones who really got me to understand it in a
13:23
scientific way. So yes, it was, it's a total
13:26
turnaround from any of my academic training. I
13:29
can just say from my academic training. At least
13:31
now I have the background to understand how the
13:33
brain works, that I can apply these new
13:37
learnings. Because really they were all new
13:38
learnings. All of the quantum biology piece was
13:41
new learnings for sure. Right.
13:44
Meredith Oke: And I'm, I'm so interested in that because I
13:46
think it's actually a really, really good
13:48
combination to have a very strong foundation in
13:51
the traditional model. So that way when you layer
13:55
on the biophysics piece, the quantum piece, you
14:01
can fill in the missing pieces, of which there
14:04
are many. But you can also speak to people who
14:06
are still living and working out of the old
14:09
paradigm and be a bridge. The flip side of that
14:12
is that, and this goes for so many people in this
14:16
community, I don't want to say out on your own,
14:20
right, but you're charting a new path. Like we're
14:22
all sort of contributing to the creation of an
14:26
alternative to what is currently the mainstream
14:30
structure. So what did that look like for you?
14:34
How did you find your way? How did you find your
14:37
people? How did you support yourself?
14:42
Sarah Turner: Well, actually when I came to the States, I came
14:43
with a company. I was looking at some very way
14:46
out there science focusing on consciousness
14:50
interface devices.
14:53
Meredith Oke: Love it. What's that about?
14:55
Sarah Turner: Very, very interesting because there was some
14:57
research that was carried out at Stanford
15:00
actually where they were looking at the ability
15:02
to influence seemingly random events with the
15:06
power of the mind. So you know, the experiments,
15:09
the original experiments they called the pet. It
15:11
was actually Princeton, not Stanford. The
15:13
original experiments were called the PEAR studies
15:15
where they were using like a, a wall with
15:18
different color ping pong balls and looking to
15:20
see whether even though it should be a random
15:22
distribution, could you maybe focus on one color
15:25
and therefore somehow your own focused intention
15:30
was influencing the result. And other people have
15:33
done interesting experiments. William Tiller also
15:36
did some interesting experiments looking at
15:38
whether you could potentially affect the ph of a
15:41
liquid. All kinds of very interesting things. Can
15:45
you influence, you know, I know that there are
15:46
now different devices which have different random
15:49
colors. Can you predict the next color that comes
15:51
from a. In effect, it's like a random event
15:54
generator, Random event generator or pseudo
15:57
random event generator that's inside Some kind of
15:59
technology that mainly is what people use
16:02
nowadays rather than these kind of big like ping
16:06
pong balls on a wall. But it's the same concept
16:09
and it was a very interesting time because there
16:11
were, there are a lot of people looking at this.
16:13
It seems quite wacky and woo woo. But actually
16:16
when you meet the people who are doing the
16:17
research, they are, they're not at all. They're
16:20
actually very serious scientifically minded
16:23
people. It's just, you know, our measuring
16:26
mechanisms, you know, we, we don't have a good
16:30
way for kind of measuring what that could be. And
16:32
I think it comes down to either the science that
16:36
we're using to measure is wrong, which is the,
16:38
you know, that could be the case, or you know,
16:41
we're looking at a different kind of effect, you
16:43
know, maybe some kind of strange effect where,
16:46
you know, there's something going on with the
16:49
observation. But it's, it was a difficult place
16:52
to be for a long time because like you say,
16:55
there's so much resistance. And so, you know,
16:58
you're kind of labeled as fringe at best and kind
17:01
of wacky woo woo at worst. So you kind of have to
17:05
take that on the chin. And actually as I started
17:09
to move through that process and really kind of
17:11
get an understanding of it, I got introduced to
17:15
the concept of structured water by interviewing
17:18
Professor Jerry Pollock, who of course wrote the
17:22
book Fourth Phase Water. And this is something
17:25
that I could really get into because although
17:27
it's kind of still on the fringe if you think
17:29
about people talking about ordered water,
17:32
particularly in the brain, but it is something
17:34
where you can actually measure the effect. And
17:37
photobiomodulation has long history of research
17:42
and it works, you know, and it was through doing
17:45
that and looking at structured water and then
17:46
applying it to the brain, I got involved on some
17:49
like, as you mentioned before, Parkinson's
17:50
trials, I could see a real tangible, measurable
17:53
effect. So I made the jump to that because
17:56
although I still love that kind of woo woo world,
17:58
it's a difficult place to kind of base yourself
18:01
permanently because we, perhaps we're not using
18:03
the right science to record those observations.
18:07
But photobiomodulation straddles both worlds
18:10
because we can go into the whole esoteric side of
18:13
light science, which is fascinating, but we can
18:17
also get very real, tangible clinical effects
18:20
that we can use right now to kind of provide
18:25
evidence and to make this mainstream. So really
18:29
that's why I'm kind of in my happy spot right now
18:31
in between this kind of really exciting esoteric
18:34
and fringe world of Light therapy, but also in a
18:38
very firm, hard, scientific world of
18:42
photobiomodulation, where we can actually show
18:44
clinical data.
18:47
Meredith Oke: I love this so much because, yes, I. And I get
18:52
that question a lot. Or that, you know, that
18:55
comes up a lot. And people like, oh, is this just
18:56
like some biohacking thing? I don't know, I'm
18:58
just gonna, like, you know, how many minutes in
19:00
front of the red light for this or that or
19:01
whatever.
19:02
Sarah Turner: Like.
19:03
Meredith Oke: Or is this more of a spiritual, you know, open
19:06
our consciousness to a new level and it's like,
19:09
well, it's both, you know, what. What door are
19:12
you coming in? So I love that, that you're
19:15
bridging that and, sorry, there's someone at my
19:20
door. And I do see light as the starting point to
19:32
go in any direction that you want to go. Light
19:34
incorporated with the structured water. So you
19:37
move. So you started in pharmaceuticals, then you
19:41
moved into consciousness, and now you're in
19:45
photobiomodulation. So, yes, this crowd is
19:49
obviously very on the call here today, is
19:51
obviously very familiar with photobiomodulation.
19:53
But for those who are tuning into this podcast,
19:56
who maybe have heard of red light therapy, they
19:58
know a little bit about it. Could you give your
20:02
description of what it is and why it's so
20:04
important?
20:07
Sarah Turner: Yeah, I mean, we can kind of go very granular or
20:10
we can go very surface level with
20:12
photobiomodulation. I mean, it is just a long
20:14
fancy word for light therapy, right? Photo being
20:17
light bio, you know, modifying something,
20:21
modifying biology with light really is. Is the
20:24
definition. And it's a new definition because
20:26
previous, a lot of the devices that we use were
20:29
laser, so they had to change the definition from
20:32
cold level laser therapy or low level laser
20:35
therapy to something more inclusive because
20:38
people now use different light sources. So
20:41
photobiomodulation was the term for better or for
20:43
worse. It's a bit of a mouthful, but to me, it's
20:46
just the concept of using light to change our
20:49
biology. And very simplistically, the sun is our
20:55
major power source. And it's something that for
20:59
literally thousands and thousands of years, it's
21:02
something that biology has evolved alongside the
21:06
sun. And that's really why biology is here at
21:09
all, is because of the sun. So we respond in a
21:12
myriad of ways to the different wavelengths of
21:15
light from the sun. And so red light therapy is
21:18
taking a portion of the sun's wavelengths of
21:22
light, and it's the portion that's usually found
21:24
at sunrise and sunset because of the angle of the
21:27
sun at the sky at that Point we get this longer
21:30
wave light because if we think about light as a,
21:32
as a spectrum going from shortwave to long wave,
21:36
red light is at the longer wave of the visible
21:39
range and a little bit further on. So we're
21:41
talking about longer wave visible light and
21:44
slightly longer than that. And this is like I
21:47
say, sunrise and sunset. This light will
21:49
penetrate our bodies because actually our bodies
21:51
are very transparent to near infrared light. And
21:55
then we have a whole cascade of biological
21:57
effects. Now probably we're just at the start of,
22:00
of working out exactly how this works with our
22:03
biology. Because if we discussed before, this is
22:06
a new science, people, you know, have not really
22:09
published a lot on the mechanisms of light
22:13
therapy because I think, you know, we, we haven't
22:15
historically applied the physics angle to
22:19
biology, but we do know it's received by the
22:22
mitochondria, which is where our body makes
22:24
energy. We do know that it increases ATP. We do
22:28
know that it affects reactive oxygen species. We
22:31
know there's a transient release of nitric oxide.
22:33
So those small things mean that we have energy
22:38
and blood flow. And for a lot of people, you
22:41
know, that's, that may be enough. I think
22:44
probably what's going on is far more complex and
22:46
intricate than that. You know, because we have
22:48
synaptogenesis, we have neurogenesis. There are
22:51
lots of different light receivers, not just the
22:53
mitochondria. I mean, I came into it via water.
22:56
So, you know, my. One of the things I've always
22:58
got running is how are we actually changing the
23:00
structure of water in our bodies? And what are
23:02
those implications? Huge and many. But we have
23:05
other, you know, anything with an aromatic ring
23:08
is going to oscillate to a certain extent to
23:10
certain wavelengths of light, and specifically
23:12
red light too. So our bodies are really
23:16
oscillating, vibrating with these different
23:18
wavelengths of light. We live indoor lifestyles
23:21
now. You know, there's not many people who are
23:24
outside all day and all night kind of getting
23:27
those wavelengths of light. So we're very
23:30
deficient, we're very deficient as a species in
23:33
long wave red light. If you start to put those
23:36
back, it's like any deficiency. As soon as you
23:38
start to put those, those wavelengths back, the
23:40
body starts to respond and sometimes in, in, you
23:43
know, very amazing ways, because your body's been
23:46
deficient in some, something you give it back,
23:48
the body starts working. So I think from a very
23:52
simplistic point of view, it's as simple as that.
23:53
I see it almost like a vitamin deficiency or any
23:56
other deficiency. As soon as you put that Back,
23:59
the body will then start working because, you
24:01
know, you now have the tools that the body needs
24:03
to function.
24:05
Meredith Oke: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I think it's
24:08
such a good way to present it and to help people
24:11
to think about it. When I sort of, I'm out in the
24:15
world and, you know, this winter I've talked to
24:18
so many people who are like, oh, I had the flu
24:20
and it's been three weeks and I still don't feel
24:22
better. And I'm like, you should really go get an
24:26
infrared sauna. Right. There's a little place
24:28
near, near where I live where you can just pay
24:30
like $30 for half an hour and sit in there. And
24:33
they're like, what? And it's because, like, we
24:36
lack, we lack the language, we lack the, the
24:40
paradigm to think about light and so to talk
24:42
about it in. I'm like, it's like food, you know,
24:45
the difference between processed food and, and
24:47
real food. Same goes for light. But, you know,
24:53
it's the way our lives are structured. It's so
24:55
hard for many of us to get what we need from the
24:59
sun because we're just not outside enough. So,
25:04
so, and so now I want to get into the, into the
25:07
brain a little bit because there's a lot of,
25:11
there are a lot of red light therapy devices on
25:15
the market, you know, a lot of quality products
25:20
that will make a difference in your life, but
25:22
most of them are not specific to the brain. And
25:26
with your background in neuroscience and then the
25:29
new paradigm you've decided to focus on, on the
25:33
brain. So tell us from a, from a biophysics point
25:38
of view, from the quantum biologic perspective,
25:41
how you see the brain working and why it needs
25:45
red light.
25:47
Sarah Turner: Yeah, I think we, we, we have kind of lost sight
25:51
of ourselves a little bit as light beings, you
25:53
know, of, of really running online as a major
25:56
energy source. Again, it's something alien. It's
26:00
not something that we've been made aware of. And
26:02
maybe it's kind of even less obvious to us now
26:04
that we do lead these indoor lives. And maybe
26:07
we're not so conscious of, you know, the cycles
26:10
of light, the cycles of the sun. You know, a lot
26:12
of that has been taken away from us. You know, we
26:14
don't do our own farming. We, you know, we're
26:17
really very much kind of removed from this
26:20
understanding of, of how we respond to light. And
26:23
from a point of view of how the brain is working,
26:25
let's say the brain is covered in potential light
26:28
receivers. So the mitochondria, the water in our
26:32
brains, the flavins in our brains, the opsins in
26:35
our brains. So we're covered in light receivers.
26:38
And so from my point of view, it's how can we
26:40
optimize getting the this kind of beneficial
26:43
light onto the brain in a way that's going to
26:46
have a therapeutic effect? So from my research,
26:50
you know, I think we, we know that we get light
26:53
onto the brain. We do know that the skull is a
26:55
barrier because, you know, you've got quite a lot
27:00
of bone. You know, the brain is contained in the
27:02
skull. And although it's not dark in there, you
27:04
know, we are receiving and emitting light from
27:07
our brains. We do have to make sure that the
27:09
light goes in. And with light, the angle is very
27:12
important because if you have something that's
27:15
kind of square to you and you know the angle is
27:21
not right, the light is very bouncy. Light is
27:23
just going to bounce off different surfaces. So,
27:26
you know, if you see light coming off of, if you
27:28
see yourself shining up red when you're doing the
27:31
light therapy, a lot of that is light that's
27:32
coming off you. It's not actually going in. So in
27:35
order for light to actually get onto the surface
27:38
of the brain, we know that we have to have
27:39
something that fits flush to the head and is
27:42
contoured in the right way, that the angle is
27:44
just right. So there are a lot of light therapy
27:46
devices for the brain, and all of them are either
27:50
like a helmet or something that actually pushes
27:53
up close to the head. And the reason for that is
27:55
you really do have to get the right angle with
27:59
regards to the wavelength. You also need to have
28:01
near infrared, because red light is surface
28:03
level. So red light is going to get kind of get
28:05
the blood and it's going to get the skin and it's
28:08
going to do good work. But in order to get onto
28:10
the surface of the brain, you need near infrared.
28:12
So that's the longer wave I was talking about. So
28:15
from my point of view, I'm interested in
28:17
structured water. Water absorbs above 900
28:19
nanometers, so that that's relatively a longer
28:23
wavelength of light than most devices. Most
28:26
devices don't want the light to be absorbed by
28:28
the water. They want it on the mitochondria. But
28:31
for my device, I wanted to have these longer
28:34
wavelengths too, because I want to target water.
28:36
So you need to have a device that is at least 850
28:39
nanometers. Mine also does 940 and 1070 because
28:43
I'm targeting all kinds of different light
28:46
receivers in the brain. But the main thing is to
28:49
have something that's flush and then the other
28:51
thing is hair. We all have different kinds of
28:53
hair. And although I'm not saying that hair is
28:55
going to be directly a barrier, it will change
28:57
the absorption. You know, the darker your hair,
29:00
the more light it will absorb. The thicker your
29:02
hair, the more it will kind of reflect and bounce
29:04
the light. So from my point of view, I wanted to
29:06
give a consistent dose because I'm making a home
29:09
use device, you know, for many people to use. So
29:11
in order for me to be sure that I'm giving
29:13
everyone the same dose, my device just goes
29:16
through the front part of the forehead and also
29:19
you're there on the frontal cortex. You know,
29:21
this is a very important part of the brain. It's
29:23
decision making. And a lot of neural projections
29:26
end here in, in the prefrontal cortex. So if
29:30
we're thinking about how lights working in a
29:32
brain, and again, this is where we have to go a
29:34
little bit, we have to be a little imaginative
29:36
because we really don't have a lot of data on why
29:39
something like Parkinson's. It's really deep in
29:41
the brain, right. And you're shining light onto
29:42
the surface. Why is that responding so well?
29:45
Maybe it's because you have a global effect of
29:47
water. Maybe neurons are acting of waves guides,
29:50
maybe there's effective microtubules. Something
29:53
is going on. But if it, but whatever it is, it
29:56
does seem that this part of the brain responds
29:59
very well, even if you've got an issue with
30:01
something that's deeper in the brain. So from my
30:04
point of view, this is a great target, the
30:05
prefrontal cortex. There's no hair, there's no
30:08
barrier. You can actually get a reasonable amount
30:11
of light onto the surface of the brain. It's
30:14
still not easy. You're still getting a fraction
30:16
of the light. And that's why I also use a body
30:18
panel, because, because the effect of light is
30:20
systemic. So if you can shine light into another
30:23
part of the body, you're also going to have an
30:25
effect on the brain. You know, if you're shining
30:26
light into, onto the blood and the mitochondria,
30:29
picking it up, you know, that's still going to
30:31
end up in your brain. We're a huge interconnected
30:34
system, you know, you can't. So treat your body
30:37
holistically was also another one of my, another
30:41
one of my reasonings for doing a dual, a dual
30:44
system, a dual device system where you could
30:47
target different parts of the body and still have
30:50
a brain effect.
30:51
Meredith Oke: Right? Because to use Mei1ho's words. If we're
30:56
liquid crystal, then yes, everything is traveling
30:59
at the speed of light or faster all through our
31:03
body. You have the gut, which is communicating
31:08
with the brain. So light on the prefrontal cortex
31:11
and light on the gut. I wanted to talk a little
31:14
bit about these neurodegenerative diseases. So
31:19
Parkinson's. I feel like when I think about the
31:22
generation above me, my parents generation, the
31:26
parents of my friends, cancer and Parkinson's,
31:32
it's like I don't. It seems to me that almost
31:36
every family, someone has one of those two. So
31:40
talk to me about what Parkinson's is. I know that
31:43
you were involved in some studies using red light
31:46
therapy on people with Parkinson's and the big
31:49
lab using big lab machines. So you've now
31:53
developed a home use device. What is going on?
31:56
How is Parkinson's and early onset Alzheimer's
31:59
related to light? I know there's a lot of
32:01
research out showing that disrupted circadian
32:05
rhythms, having light in the bedroom while you're
32:08
sleeping has been linked to these. I think more
32:13
than linked. I think there's probably a causal
32:15
mechanism that's been shown by now, but so much
32:19
of the lead up to these diseases has been linked
32:22
to light. What is going on and how does adding in
32:28
photobiomodulation help to work with these
32:33
diseases?
32:35
Sarah Turner: Parkinson's People may know that Parkinson's is a
32:39
degeneration of the cistantia nigra. It's neurons
32:42
in a certain part of the brain, fairly deep in
32:45
the brain, and you have degeneration of the
32:49
neurons there. And even the word substantia
32:52
nigra. It's interesting because it implies black,
32:55
doesn't it? Nigra, you know, it's a word for
32:58
black. And we know that if there's a dark matter
33:02
in the body that we're probably thinking about
33:05
melanin and where, you know, that's why you have
33:08
these different. You have different kinds of
33:11
molecules that are doing different things in the
33:13
brain. It's very interesting that Parkinson's is.
33:15
Seems to be this disease which is caused by this
33:18
particular dark neurons being degenerated. And we
33:24
kind of know from a quantum biology point of view
33:26
how important things like melanins are from a
33:29
conduction point of view, from an electrically
33:31
conductive view in the brain. Now, that's
33:34
obviously not the orthodox scientific take on it,
33:37
but if you kind of go back to thinking about the
33:39
body as being electric and it's just really about
33:42
redox potential and how electrons are moving in
33:45
our brain and how light is penetrating the brain.
33:49
I think it puts a very different slant on
33:51
Parkinson's and why that would respond so quickly
33:53
to light therapy. You know, you have a lack of
33:56
this pigment in the brain which is making the
33:58
brain more conductive. And then you start to
34:00
shine light therapy on which is in essence kind
34:03
of charging up the brain in a very real way, you
34:06
know, in a like adding electrons to the brain and
34:09
then you start to see these beneficial effects.
34:11
But, you know, from an orthodox point of view,
34:14
there is a degeneration of these neurons cause
34:17
unknown in orthodox sites. But, you know, of
34:21
course we live, we're leading lifestyles where
34:23
you have got things which are going to reduce
34:25
your redox. You know, people aren't grounding
34:27
outside, people are watching blue screens, we're
34:29
surrounded by different WI fi. There's a lot of
34:32
things happening in our environment which could
34:34
potentially lower the charge or the redox
34:36
potential we have in our body, which may in turn
34:39
lead to degenerative diseases. And you know,
34:42
there are various genes and things which are
34:45
linked to having certain weaknesses in certain
34:48
body systems. So, you know that Alzheimer's,
34:51
Parkinson's, all these neurodegeneration are also
34:53
linked to certain genetic predispositions. So I
34:57
think really it's just a combination of genetic
35:01
and potentially epigenetic predispositions
35:04
combined with lifestyle that puts you in a
35:06
position where you are not able for whatever
35:09
reason to charge your body and your brain. So
35:13
that's why, you know, if you start to think of
35:14
the body more from our point, you know, very
35:16
simple battery point of view, it's just a
35:19
depleted battery is the issue. And what you're
35:22
doing with light is you're just charging the
35:23
battery. I mean, I think, I think it really is as
35:26
simple as that. Obviously, if you really start to
35:29
look at the biochemistry, lots of interesting
35:30
things are going on. And, and Parkinson's is an
35:34
interesting one because it's gut health too. You
35:38
know, I think it's mainly recognized now that
35:40
Parkinson's starts in the gut because we have a
35:42
lot of nervous tissue in the gut. We have the
35:45
microbiome that lives in the gut. We have the
35:47
vagus connection there. You know, again, this is
35:50
hugely important from a point of view of that
35:53
systemic effect of what's going on. You know, if
35:55
you have leaky gut and you have inflammation
35:57
caused by metabolites going into your blood, then
36:01
you have neuroinflammation too. You know,
36:03
everything is systemic. You know, nothing is
36:06
contained in its own compartment. So this, all
36:09
kinds of things cause this Leaky gut again, maybe
36:12
bad food, maybe pesticides, maybe pollution, bad
36:16
habits, bad relationships. You know, if you're
36:18
constantly stressed, you know, you're potentially
36:21
changing the chemicals in your gut and causing
36:23
leaky gut. So everything is connected, I think,
36:27
you know, very simple. Eat well, sleep well, have
36:30
good relationships. You know, that's the kind of
36:32
thing we need to do. If we've got ourselves in a
36:33
position where we've already got the genetic
36:36
predisposition combined with a poor environment,
36:39
that's really what causes any kind of, not only
36:42
neurodegeneration, but probably any kind of
36:44
chronic disease. How it manifests is probably
36:46
just a bit of a mixture of, you know, the cards
36:49
you were dealt with initially.
36:51
Meredith Oke: Right. So it's interesting you say that. I was
36:55
involved in an exchange on Twitter recently and
36:58
someone was saying, we need to stop calling it
37:01
mental health and physical health. And someone
37:03
was like, what should we call it? And the guy was
37:05
like, health? How about just health? It's
37:10
everything. So I'm going to open it up to
37:16
questions from. We have a lot of curious, curious
37:20
cats on the call today. Who has a question for
37:26
Sarah? This is being recorded, so raise your hand
37:31
or just unmute yourself and jump right in. As I
37:34
was saying, these are our practitioner. This is
37:38
our practitioner community. Who's on here today?
37:41
Who wants to go first? Lynn. Lynn, just unmute
37:47
yourself and ask your question. You can't. Okay,
37:52
let me. Okay, so this is from Lynn. Lynn wants to
37:58
know about red light protocols specifically for
38:02
Parkinson's.
38:05
Sarah Turner: Yes. So at the moment, I do have a small cohort
38:08
of young onset Parkinson's, actually. And that's
38:11
just because it's just so happened that that's
38:14
the community of people that have come for some,
38:18
you know how it is, somebody gets a result from
38:21
an illness and then they recommend to friends and
38:23
then you have a little community. And what
38:25
they're finding mainly is the. I have a program
38:29
in my headband that also oscillates at 40 hertz,
38:33
because we know that as well as shining light
38:35
onto the brain to have an effect, you can also
38:38
pulse that light at certain frequencies. The
38:40
brain is pulsing at different frequencies all the
38:42
time in hugely complex ways. But the hertz
38:45
frequency, or number of times of oscillations a
38:48
second is, is the one that we usually measure
38:51
when we're doing something like QEEG, which is an
38:54
electroencephalogram. And 40 times a second seems
38:58
to be a sweet spot for kind of enabling the brain
39:00
to entrain to a frequency where you're more alert
39:04
and Attentive. So the protocol that we currently
39:08
have for managing Parkinson's symptoms, and I
39:10
want to be very clear that I'm not talking about
39:12
curing, preventing, treating or diagnosing
39:15
disease. I'm talking about symptom management. A
39:18
40 Hz pulsing frequency with light on a headband.
39:22
Also utilizing a body pad seems to be having the
39:25
best result. And it's just 10 minutes a day on my
39:29
device, which is about 50 milliwatts if you're
39:35
using a different product, maybe just kind of
39:36
titrate up or down depending on the power. But I
39:41
would say with that, it's fairly low power.
39:44
Actually, it's a fairly low power device. Oh, and
39:48
Lynn's also asking, what do I think about
39:51
Vielight? I think they're awesome. I think
39:53
they're a brilliant company that's doing some
39:55
great results, great research. Should I say Dr.
39:59
Lou Lim? I've seen him talk many times and he's
40:01
always at the frontier of things. So, yeah, I
40:03
think it's a good product.
40:07
Meredith Oke: And what's the difference? Violated. That's the
40:10
one that goes up your nose, or am I thinking of
40:14
something else?
40:15
Sarah Turner: V. Light violet. They have. Yes. They have one
40:18
that goes up the nose and then they have. It's
40:20
kind of like different little pods they have. And
40:22
they're specifically targeting the default mode
40:25
network. So theirs goes on the default mode
40:27
network here, which is a bit awkward if you've
40:29
got hair. But I think they must have worked a way
40:31
to kind of push it in there. And then they have
40:34
an intranasal. And their idea is you're getting
40:36
light onto the kind of the olfactory bulb at the
40:38
back. But they have, they, I think their devices,
40:42
they sell different ones. So they have an alpha
40:44
and a gamma. So one is doing pulsing it 10 times
40:47
a second, one's pulsing at 40, but I don't think
40:50
it's in the same device. Unless I'm wrong, they
40:52
might have come out with a combination device.
40:54
But again, it's their kind of way of adjusting of
40:59
kind of targeting systemic is that they use the
41:01
nose, I use the gut because I'm interested very
41:04
much in gut health. And I think if you can solve
41:07
your gut health, a lot of the times the brain
41:09
issues go away on their own. So I'm very much
41:11
into using the gut, they use the nose, they use
41:14
intranasal.
41:18
Meredith Oke: Fantastic. And Michelle has a question before we
41:22
hear from Michelle. So you talked about doing
41:25
case studies and collecting your research. You
41:28
talked about some of the other companies that are
41:30
doing the same thing. Is this body of research,
41:35
who's going to look at it? Do you foresee a
41:38
future where in the United States perhaps the FDA
41:41
will recognize these devices? Like what is,
41:44
what's the ideal pathway with this research?
41:50
Sarah Turner: So at the moment we're still in a paradigm where
41:52
in order to get medical device approval you have
41:54
to go through the fda. I have to say I think that
41:57
is crumbling. That kind of institution is
42:00
crumbling, especially with the kind of the new
42:04
political environment that you have here in the
42:07
States. It seems things are changing, however, at
42:12
the moment. To get a medical device approval,
42:14
yes, you need to go through the FDA and some
42:16
companies are getting, like Veet talked about,
42:18
Vielight. That's one example. They're looking to
42:20
get a medical device approval for long Covid and
42:24
I think they've already submitted the data for
42:27
that. So if they get that, then that's going to
42:29
be great because it means that then is then a
42:31
recognized disease state that light therapy is
42:34
used for and then that hopefully opens the doors
42:36
for everybody else who wants to, to get a medical
42:39
device approval. I know there are other companies
42:41
looking at autistic spectrum disorder. I have
42:45
some colleagues that are working on mild
42:48
cognitive. So that is kind of the ultimate goal.
42:52
I'm at the stage where I'm collecting data on
42:54
young onset Parkinson's and motor neurons
42:58
disease, which you call ALS here in the States.
43:01
And I am just doing documented case studies under
43:03
the guided supervision of Professor Paul Chazot
43:05
at Durham. But I'm a long way off from being able
43:09
to submit that for medical device approval. But
43:12
at the moment, I think there's enough market and
43:15
a kind of option for people to be in the wellness
43:18
market still, you know, we can, still, we can't
43:21
talk about curing Parkinson's, but we can talk
43:23
about helping people manage their symptoms and
43:25
maybe going from a baseline of where they're at
43:27
to better. And I think for now, maybe that is a
43:31
place where we need to be. Because like I say, I
43:33
think things are changing and people are starting
43:35
to recognize more alternative ways of looking at
43:39
science and alternative ways of validating these
43:43
technologies. I already know, you know, people
43:45
are starting to look at different research groups
43:48
based in the Bahamas or maybe in Europe, where
43:50
we're kind of having the same level of scrutiny
43:53
on the data, but maybe not so much the
43:56
bureaucracy, red tape and outside interests that
44:00
influence some of these big bodies like the fda.
44:04
Meredith Oke: Yes, I agree. I think we're heading into a new
44:07
era. I'm so excited to see what happens. And yes,
44:10
that would be Ideal, keep the rigor, lose the
44:13
bureaucracy. That should be our mantra. All
44:18
right, Michelle, did you want to unmute yourself
44:20
and ask a question? Yeah, sure, I've got a couple
44:23
of questions.
44:24
Sarah Turner: The first one was just, I'm just curious on sort
44:28
of what measurements and.
44:30
Meredith Oke: Outcomes you're looking at other than symptoms.
44:31
Are you using QEG or any other.
44:35
Sarah Turner: Yeah, methodologies, just to see the effect of
44:38
your, of your red light. So I have a very small
44:43
amount of people where I'm doing QEG because it's
44:46
quite expensive and really I'm only doing that
44:48
where I've got access to the university. So I
44:50
have a few, I have a couple of case studies going
44:53
on at Durham where I have access to qeg. Some of
44:57
the people that I'm working with because I've
44:58
been in biohacking have things like aura rings.
45:01
And although, you know, it's still not recognized
45:04
as proper clinical data, it is valid data to look
45:08
at taking someone from where they're at to like
45:12
increased heart rate variability or deep sleep
45:16
scores or things like that. So I do use metrics,
45:20
not just aura, anything. I have a platform that
45:23
allows me to bring in anything anyone's got,
45:25
whether that's Apple, Garmin, Fitbit, Whoop,
45:26
whatever, whatever they're using. So I use those
45:30
kinds of metrics. I also use very basic
45:33
questionnaires because a lot of the people who
45:35
are at the moment buying my product are people
45:39
maybe a slightly older demographic who are quite
45:42
happy with self assessment questionnaires. So I
45:45
have one called my MOP Measure Yourself Outcome
45:49
Questionnaire. And that is very simple. It's just
45:52
what is your main symptom? On a scale of 1 to 6,
45:54
what does it prevent you doing? On a scale of 1
45:56
to 6, what is your general wellness? And then you
45:59
just repeat that every month. And I find that
46:02
hugely helpful for a lot of people because once
46:04
when you start getting ill, start getting better,
46:06
if you've been ill, you don't want to remember
46:08
being ill. So for a lot of people it's good to
46:12
say, okay, well, you know, when you first came,
46:13
you said that your brain fog was six maximum.
46:17
You're now saying it's one. Oh yeah, I forgot. I
46:20
used to be like that, you know. So for me, when
46:24
I'm just starting out, I'm not doing. This is not
46:26
clinical data that's going to be accepted by the
46:28
fda. But in order to kind of get something like
46:32
a. My mock form is a tool, you know, it is a
46:35
registered tool. I could use it if I wanted. To,
46:37
to publish the data. So I'm not using anything
46:40
that's wildly subjective, but at the same time
46:43
I'm just being. I'm very simple. I'm trying to
46:46
make things as easy as possible for people.
46:50
Meredith Oke: Yeah, that's great.
46:50
Sarah Turner: Thank you. The other question I had was whether
46:54
you had any experience combining your devices
46:58
with methylene blue? Because I've seen some
47:00
research around that with neurodegeneration.
47:03
Yeah, I, I do. I have done a lot of self studies
47:07
with methylene blue and I have a couple of. Well,
47:10
I have a guy in my group with motor neurons
47:13
disease who is, is very keen to kind of try out
47:16
these protocols with me. So he's been doing a
47:18
methylene blue protocol alongside the light
47:21
therapy and we're tracking his progress and he
47:23
thinks that he is getting an increased result.
47:26
I'm always, I'm a little bit hesitant just
47:29
because, you know, methylene blue has been used
47:31
historically as an anti, parasitic and an
47:33
antimicrobial. And I really, really have not been
47:37
able to get to the bottom of what is the exact
47:39
effect on chronic methylene blue use and the gut
47:42
microbiome. I don't know, maybe somebody here, I
47:46
would love to know.
47:47
Meredith Oke: Do you want to, just for the audience, just say a
47:50
little bit more about methylene blue, Sarah or
47:52
Michelle, sort of what it is and why it has been
47:57
become such a hot topic. As I speak this past
48:01
week, methylene blue blew up again on the
48:03
Internet because.
48:04
Sarah Turner: Did it?
48:04
Meredith Oke: Yes. Robert F. Kennedy. Someone shot a video on
48:07
their phone of him putting it in his water on Air
48:10
Force One or something. So now everyone's taken
48:13
over the Internet.
48:14
Sarah Turner: Again now this kind of taking off now with, you
48:17
know, you would never, I would never think that
48:20
we would be kind of being introduced to these
48:22
health topics in this way, but however it's
48:24
coming through, that's great. Methylene blue
48:27
actually historically is a dye. It's a dye that
48:31
was used actually, you know, in blue jeans. You
48:33
know, so it's a chemical. But the thing about
48:36
methylene blue is it's an electronic recycler. So
48:41
it's not only an electron donator, but it
48:43
actually removes excess electrons. So from the
48:47
point of view of having something that would work
48:50
well with red light therapy, it is a compound
48:53
that people have been using because, you know,
48:56
you can supply even more electrons into the
48:58
electron transport chain to enhance the effect,
49:00
or if you're kind of over producing electrons in
49:03
the form of reactive oxygen species, you can mop
49:06
some of them up. So a lot of people use Methylene
49:10
blue. You know, I've seen people use it in their
49:12
eyes lately. You know, people are using it in
49:15
quite outrageous ways. It, it has been used
49:18
historically in the US Military. You know, that's
49:22
why people talk about, you know, because you pee
49:24
blue afterwards. So I think, you know, it has a,
49:27
it has a very strange biological effect. And
49:29
actually that's how you can titrate the dose is
49:32
by seeing how blue your pee is and kind of
49:34
titrating back from that. But it was used, it was
49:38
used for malaria actually, to treat malaria
49:40
because it is anti parasitic because of this
49:44
effect on the electrons and it actually has an
49:45
effect on the outer coats of the, of the
49:48
parasites. So this is kind of where I'm, I have
49:52
tried it. I'm happy to try things on myself and
49:54
see how it works. I'm not always happy about
49:57
recommending it to other people unless I really
49:59
for sure know that it's totally safe. And I'm
50:02
not, I'm not 100% convinced about it right now
50:05
because I just need a little bit more information
50:07
on how it is actually interacting with the gut
50:11
microbiome. Because my whole thing is, you know,
50:13
that I want the body to be optimally functioning
50:17
and, you know, if you focus just on one thing,
50:19
like you focus on getting more electrons to the
50:21
brain to the detriment of your gut bacteria, that
50:23
doesn't sit well with me. But I'm very happy to
50:25
hear anybody else's input on this because it's
50:27
something that, as you say, it's, Everybody talks
50:31
about it and if you go to any biohacking event,
50:33
everyone's got a blue tongue and now they've got
50:35
blue eyes, you know, where they're actually
50:36
dropping it into the whites of their eyes.
50:39
Meredith Oke: All right.
50:42
Sarah Turner: I do. I have used it and I have used it and I did
50:44
think I, I got more energy for it. Do I use it
50:47
every day? No, I don't. Do I use it every, Do I
50:50
recommend it to other people? No, not unless they
50:53
really kind of know the risks and they want to do
50:55
a little protocol in it. And I have to say that
50:58
just from an N of one of a volunteer here who's
51:02
got motor neuron, he did find it helped with
51:04
brain fog.
51:06
Meredith Oke: Right? Yes. No, I've, I've heard good feedback on
51:10
it. I also haven't tried it. I know. I think
51:13
people think I try all the things. I'm, I'm
51:15
pretty low maintenance. I, I don't use that many
51:19
extra products, to be honest. Julie?
51:25
Sarah Turner: Yes, Hi. So my question Actually is this is.
51:31
Meredith Oke: Kind of good to follow on the methylene blue
51:33
topic because I'm thinking about.
51:36
Sarah Turner: Or could you talk about the difference.
51:39
Meredith Oke: Between a therapy for a particular disease.
51:41
Sarah Turner: State, such as Parkinson's versus that
51:45
deficiencies.
51:46
Meredith Oke: Or health issues that maybe led to that.
51:49
Sarah Turner: And I feel like methylene blue kind of falls into
51:52
that. Like could it be used therapeutically
51:54
versus.
51:57
Meredith Oke: Do you use it in a preventative sort of way?
52:02
Sarah Turner: Because the preventative piece just seems so much
52:06
more complex as far as what's leading to
52:09
different disease states. Yeah, I think a lot of
52:14
it is urgency and motivation. If you find
52:18
yourself already in a fairly progressed disease
52:21
state, maybe you may take a more calculated risk.
52:28
But I think it is just about calculating risk.
52:30
With any kind of drug, with any kind of non
52:33
natural intervention, there's going to be a side
52:35
effect somewhere down the line. There's always a
52:37
price to pay for a pharmaceutical or for a drug.
52:41
And methylene blue does sit a little bit within
52:43
that category. Whether it's your detox organs or
52:47
maybe potentially upsetting your bacteria
52:50
balance, there's always some price to pay. But
52:52
it's about taking a calculated risk because if
52:54
you're in a fairly progressed disease state, you
52:57
might find that that risk is worth it for the
52:59
potential gain. I think from a prevention point
53:02
of view it's very, you know, it's very simple.
53:05
It's just really optimize your environment. Well,
53:09
this is my advice. Maybe this isn't advice that
53:11
anybody would take, but optimize your light
53:13
environment, optimize your relationships,
53:15
optimize everything and you don't need to do to
53:19
anything. In addition to that, I, I think it may
53:23
be something where you would want to do something
53:24
Additionally, once you find yourself in that
53:26
state or whether you're like me and you're just
53:28
curious and you just want to find out, but it's
53:30
not something I would do long term without having
53:33
the necessity to do that. So again, I think it's
53:36
about risk management. I do have a predisposition
53:38
for neurodegeneration, so I am kind of always
53:42
trying to weigh up what is the potential risk to
53:45
this particular therapy versus the potential
53:47
advantage. But yes, you're right, prevention is
53:51
tricky. It's a hard sell for sure. And it's a
53:54
tricky one to know what you, what's the best
53:55
thing you can do to put yourself in a better
53:58
position in your later life.
54:03
Meredith Oke: All right, so Sarah, where can people find you
54:07
and where can they find.
54:08
Sarah Turner: The Sarah Thrive so people can find me. It's my
54:13
name's Sarah. But my company is also Sarah. So
54:16
I've. I've helpfully won this T shirt so that
54:18
people can see the different spelling. But my
54:20
name, my name's Sarah Turner and my company is
54:23
called Sarah Thrive. Spelled like the brain. C E
54:25
R A, like cerebral, like cerebellum. So I'm on
54:29
almost all socials with that handle, Sarah
54:32
Thrive. So you can LinkedIn whatever it is. It's
54:35
Sarah Thrive. The company is SarahThrive.com and
54:40
also Shaws. And anything, any kind of contact
54:42
info you find goes to me. So, you know, you're
54:44
more than welcome to email me. Otherwise it's
54:46
just sarathrive.com great.
54:51
Meredith Oke: And Jedidiah has questions.
54:57
Sarah Turner: Can you hear me?
54:58
Meredith Oke: Yep.
55:00
Sarah Turner: So in your experience, do Parkinson's patients
55:05
tend to be dehydrated and. Yeah, sorry, do they
55:12
tend to be dehydrated and, and do you tend. Do
55:16
they tend to be fast oxidizers? You're asking me
55:21
if they're dehydrated and fast oxidizers? I. I
55:25
don't know. I mean, I don't have a measure of
55:28
someone's hydration status. If people are coming
55:32
to me with Parkinson's, usually it's because
55:34
they've been diagnosed with it and so they're
55:36
just coming with a pre diagnosis. And most of the
55:39
time people don't know things like their status.
55:42
Most, most people are just coming from what, what
55:47
the doctors told them, and presumably they're
55:49
just being measured based on things like tremor
55:51
and maybe mri. So I, I really don't know. I mean,
55:56
I, I think obviously hydration goes very closely
55:59
with the light piece that we're talking about,
56:01
because if you're very healthy and your proteins
56:04
are working properly in your brain, then they're
56:06
going to be hydrated proteins so that they fold
56:09
in the right way. Because a lot of
56:10
neurodegeneration comes from misfolding of
56:13
proteins, which, you know, is coming from the
56:15
fact that maybe the water surrounding them isn't
56:17
charged or charged effectively, that the proteins
56:20
can fold in the right way. So I would think that
56:23
neurodegeneration is definitely associated with
56:26
some kind of water issue. But no, I, I wouldn't
56:31
have that additional information, and I'm not
56:33
sure that even the people who have been diagnosed
56:36
have that information. What. What's your take on
56:38
it? Well, I'm speaking more personally, but yes,
56:44
it seems to me that, that there's a lot to do
56:47
with that. I know that this is a question. If you
56:52
know anything more about it. Melanin itself
56:55
requires dopamine to make melanin. And since we
56:58
don't create enough dopamine in the first place,
57:02
that creates a problem receiving the light and
57:06
creating the water. I also wondered about the
57:11
fast oxidation piece because when you were
57:13
talking about methylene blue and excess
57:15
electrons. I know for myself and for my family
57:20
line, it seems like people are fast oxidizers. In
57:27
other words, they're, they're more high strung
57:29
and high metabolism, fast metabolism, as opposed
57:34
to the people that, you know.
57:36
Meredith Oke: On the other, have the other metabolic.
57:37
Sarah Turner: Problems of the, you know, putting on weight and
57:39
being the low metabolizers. And I want to know if
57:43
you had any experience with that or, you know,
57:46
observed just people who you worked with? No, you
57:53
know, I don't. And I suppose the science is only
57:55
good as the data that's collected from people,
57:58
because if this data was being collected, then we
58:01
would be able to do an analysis and find out, you
58:04
know, look for those trends. But I think if in
58:06
all the research, the data, we're not collecting
58:09
those data points, then it's very difficult to
58:12
say, yeah, there does seem to be a trend for
58:14
these kinds of things. Maybe once, you know,
58:17
maybe, you know, the whole thing about AI is
58:19
getting huge now, but maybe once we start to go
58:21
back, we could retrospectively look, if any, if
58:24
any of this data was collected, then we could see
58:26
trends. But I mean, your own observation again,
58:29
is data in itself. So if that's something you're
58:31
observing yourself, I would suggest that, that,
58:34
that could definitely be your idea of the survey.
58:37
I mean, just asking those questions. I'd love to
58:40
be, I mean, the clinic that I go to for
58:44
Parkinson's is not going to let me interview my
58:48
fellow patients. And so I would love to create a
58:54
survey just to ask the group of Parkinson's
58:56
patients whether they have symptoms that would
58:59
say, yes, you're dehydrated or yes, you are fast
59:02
oxidizer, things like that. Another thing I'm
59:07
curious about is this whole thing of the, the arc
59:11
that you have instead of like I have a red light
59:14
panel and just use it on my brain and my,
59:17
actually my whole torso, front and back. But
59:20
you're saying that because of the skull, the
59:24
light doesn't come in at all angles. Is that
59:28
correct? Yes. I'm saying in order to actually get
59:32
light onto the surface of the brain, you probably
59:34
need to have a device that goes flush to your
59:37
head rather than a device that's kind of square
59:39
on. Yes. But you're, you're still getting the
59:45
light in through the body, you know, you're still
59:47
having the systemic effect. And, and certainly,
59:50
you know, if you're shining it onto the abdomen,
59:52
you're still getting that gut effect where
59:54
you're, you're going to get a brain effect. It's
59:56
just if you want to target the brain directly, I
59:59
really think that you need to have a device
1:00:01
that's contoured. Otherwise the light just can't
1:00:04
get through the skull. All right.
1:00:10
Meredith Oke: Good to know. Thank you. Thank you. And thank
1:00:14
you, Sarah. It's been so good. And I just wanted
1:00:16
to pick up on that, the dehydration piece. So for
1:00:20
our podcast audience, a little more general than
1:00:23
the pros we have in the room right now. Could you
1:00:28
just say a little bit? I mean, I think when most
1:00:30
people think dehydration, we think, oh, I didn't
1:00:32
drink enough water. No, of course we need to
1:00:34
drink a decent amount of high quality water. But
1:00:39
talk to me about cellular dehydration. And you
1:00:41
already mentioned the effect that that could have
1:00:43
on the brain in terms of protein folding. But how
1:00:47
does light help with hydration?
1:00:50
Sarah Turner: Yeah, I think it's an important topic. It's, it's
1:00:53
about how the body is utilizing the water. And,
1:00:56
and if we think about inside the body, we are a
1:01:00
huge percentage of water, and some of that is in
1:01:03
our cells and some of it is in our blood. And it
1:01:06
makes a difference of where that water is
1:01:08
situated. It also makes a difference of making
1:01:11
sure that all the proteins in our bodies are
1:01:13
surrounded by water. And we mentioned May Wan ho
1:01:17
earlier. You know, this is one of her principles,
1:01:18
that everything is being kind of conducted in
1:01:21
this way via the water in our bodies. Because,
1:01:24
you know, we have intracellular water, but we
1:01:26
also have all of this water surrounding all of
1:01:28
our proteins. And from the work of Jerry Pollock,
1:01:31
we know that you can change the structure or the
1:01:35
order of the water when you expose a hydrophilic
1:01:39
surface, which is basically means water loving.
1:01:42
But any kind of membrane or anything inside our
1:01:44
body, if you expose the water that's next to one
1:01:48
of those surfaces to light, we can actually
1:01:50
change the order or the structure of water. And
1:01:54
this is a hugely fascinating concept, and
1:01:56
probably we could talk for an hour about it on
1:01:58
its own, but it basically means that you can have
1:02:00
different visualization viscosities of water in
1:02:02
different areas of the bodies and also different
1:02:05
charges. So my point of view is like protein
1:02:08
folding. Proteins fold according to where the
1:02:10
relative charges are on the, on the surface
1:02:12
structure. So if you don't have those charges or
1:02:15
if they're weak charges because, you know, we
1:02:17
have dehydration or not enough in those areas.
1:02:23
And you can have suboptimal functioning of the
1:02:25
cell. Hydration is very important. But also
1:02:29
having water, you're right, you could drink a
1:02:32
gallon of water. It's not going to the right
1:02:37
places, or your detox organs are not working
1:02:39
properly. Just peeing it all out. You know,
1:02:42
you're not getting that effect. So it's about
1:02:45
again, thinking holistically about it. You drink
1:02:47
enough water, but you also need the light
1:02:49
exposure and the good food and the good
1:02:51
environment in order to make maximum use of that
1:02:54
water so that you are hydrated.
1:02:57
Meredith Oke: Right. Coming back to what you were saying
1:02:59
earlier about keeping the battery charged, Right.
1:03:03
We need to be well hydrated, and the light and
1:03:06
the water all work together to keep us in that.
1:03:09
In that healthy state. Sarah, thank you so much.
1:03:13
Any last thoughts or anything that's coming to
1:03:16
you that you'd like to share with our audience
1:03:20
about anything?
1:03:24
Sarah Turner: No, I do. I think we've covered everything and it
1:03:26
was lovely to speak to your group. I think we did
1:03:28
good to do a podcast where we got some
1:03:29
interaction, but I also think it's also about
1:03:32
keeping it simple. You know, we just need to
1:03:34
really understand the importance of light in
1:03:37
biology and also in our science because it is
1:03:40
something that I feel like has been. We're just
1:03:42
so far removed from it. But as soon as you start
1:03:44
to kind of gain that concept and even, you know,
1:03:47
do little simple experiments, be outdoors, kind
1:03:49
of be your N equals one, you know, I think it
1:03:52
becomes more real and tangible because sometimes
1:03:54
the science, you know, we can get a little bit
1:03:56
stuck in the weeds, but it's actually very
1:03:58
simple. You know, good water, good light, good
1:04:00
friends. Done. You know, love it.
1:04:05
Meredith Oke: Yes. Real water, real food, real light, real
1:04:09
people.
1:04:10
Sarah Turner: Yes. Yes.
1:04:11
Meredith Oke: Recipe for happiness. And health. And happiness.
1:04:16
Sarah appreciates seeing you. I know you're very
1:04:18
busy traveling the world, attending all these
1:04:21
conferences, so I'd love to do this again
1:04:23
sometime. And thanks for being back on the QVC
1:04:27
podcast.
1:04:28
Sarah Turner: Thank you. Thank you all. Bye. Bye.