Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KOHBERGER TO SUE? DID HE ACT ALONE? DEMANDS BETTER JAIL?

Transcript

KOHBERGER TO SUE? DID HE ACT ALONE? DEMANDS BETTER JAIL? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger to sue whoa whoa whoa. Brian Coburger is
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: suing somebody for money after he's convicted of.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Murdering four people.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: He's suing, and tonight there is a growing sentiment, not
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: by me, but by them that Coburger did not act alone.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: This as even in the last hours, Brian Coburger is
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: demanding he be moved to better accommodations. You're not getting
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the penthouse, sweet Coburger, that's not going to happen. Enjoy
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: your gruel. I'm Nancy Grease. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: You may have received a's in high school and college,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: but you're going to be getting big d's in prison.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Brian at being Coburger, he is whining, I wish for
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: the items to be called for when this is something
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: something the nutritional standards are not being upheld, but I
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: don't care. It's like, don't care if he doesn't like broccoli,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: get used to it. Oh rhetoric Aside regarding Brian Coburger.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: In the last hours, Killa Gorin saws his family posted
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and it is heart wrenching and I want you to
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: see it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: So I'm going through some of Kaylee's things and.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I just came across just.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Sweatshirt that she was wearing at night, and in the pocket.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Is your grub truck number seventy eight.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Ticket.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I really found that I've been looking for.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It was in the top of a box.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: And then when.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I looked in the pocket and I found that ticket,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: just takes you back to those hours, those hours right
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: before I had no idea what was going to happen
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: to them.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Terrible That is Kelly Gonsaws, his mother Christie, who has
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: joined us so many many nights. I see holding and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: smelling the sweatshirt yelliguinsolvice. And I gotta tell you something,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: when my daughter hugs me, it's it's not perfumed. She
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: just smells good. She smells like the outdoors kind of
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and fresh air, sun and everything good. Just watching this,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I don't even hear her right now. It just makes
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: my stomach hurt. And it takes me back to some
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: probitive evidence that could have been used at trial if
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the prosecutor had any backbone. Of the Idaho students at
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that grub hub.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Look.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Look they're going out right now, grub truck number seventy
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: eight ticket. There they are, and they're having so much fun.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Is super late at night and they're just living life,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: you know, just having so much fun.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: With me.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Is Chris McDonough.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: He is the star over at the Cold Case Foundation.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: He is a former homicide detective who has worked over
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: three hundred homicide cases.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: He is the star of.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: The interview room on the YouTube channel where I found him.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: But for my purposes tonight, he has walked every square
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: inch all around that King Road address to where the
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: trucks were, the food trucks. And Chris seeing Christy Gonsalves
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: holding Kelley's sweatshirt, I just feel broken in half, broken
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: in half, Chris.
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: You Nancy. This brings back so much, so many memories
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: for many parents who have lost children, myself included. And
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: the fact that she is embracing that sweatshirt just to
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: smell her daughter gives us an understanding of a depth
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: of pain that nobody should ever experience. And then when
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: I shift into out from a personal experience to an
• 5:36
  Speaker 6: investigator's hat and she pulls out of the pocket the
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: grub hub receipt on that receipt as a time and
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: why that receipt was not in evidence for me anyway
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: as an investigator, again shows potentially some shortcomings with the
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: totality of this investigation.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I was wondering, Chris McDonald, when you were going to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: bring that up.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: When I found out the receipt from that night, which
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: is part of the timeline, was steal in her pocket,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I nearly fell over. But I want to show you
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: something I carry around a lot of times, and we've
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: been multi wall trying to help our friend Savannah Guthrie.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And these are my dad's shirts. Sometimes they just carry
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: him around. Sometimes I sleep in them. It just kind
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: of depends. And I can just feel when Christi Gunsolves
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: is talking about her daughter, just that empty moment when
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: the trial or in this case, the cheap plea is
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: over and everybody leaves and nobody's talking about it anymore,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and nobody cares anymore, and there you are with that sweatshirt.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Just the silence is deafening for this family.
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: Yes, and and it doesn't get any better, right, Nancy,
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: You know from personal experience of loss, they now have
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: to learn the coping mechanisms to get them through the
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: next birthday, the next you know item that they pull
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: out of a box that was handed to them from
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: the authorities, and everything turns into the next uh, you know,
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: piece of where is my child? But there will never
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: ever be that personal hug that that mom, I love you, Dad,
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: I love you hearing it. It's over and so you
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: learn how to cope with it. But they're really that's
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: as far as you can go as a parent, as
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: a as a you know, in your circumstances, your fiance,
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: you just have to empower yourself and then put it
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: towards a positive end and hopefully great things will come
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: out of it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Tonight, a let me say unique theory as far as
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned regarding the murders of four beautiful University Idaho students.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And in the backdrop of that analytical discussion, is Coburger
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: preparing himself to sue?
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Really, what does he want nine ten million dollars over what?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: But tonight did Coburger act alone? Correct me if I'm wrong,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: But I think he's the only one that got in
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: court played guilty.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: He's the only one that was prosecuted.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: But now a growing tide of legal Eagles insist Coburger did.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Not act alone.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I poo pooed it when I would see it on
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Twitter and Insta, in Facebook, I would discount it. But
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: for some reason there is a legion of legal eagles
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: that say, yes, he had an accomplice. But I want
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you to see Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson with Idaho State Police
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: as he approached.
• 9:18
  Speaker 7: Coburger, I feel like you probably know why we're here.
• 9:20
  Speaker 7: We're detectives from Idaho and we're here because of the
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: case in Moscow.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: And as soon as.
• 9:28
  Speaker 7: We mentioned that, then he stopped and he said, I
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: don't want to talk anymore.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: For our friends at ABC.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: That is Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson describing what happened when he
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: first approached Coburger following the murders. The moment he identified
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: himself as from Idaho. I am from the Idaho State Police,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Coburger immediately said, I don't want to talk.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So Philip Dubay joining me, veteran trial lawyer out of
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: LA County. Philip, you know, when a cop asked me
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a question, I respond, I don't call my lawyer in
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: why depends?
• 10:04
  Speaker 8: I mean most people ask for a lawyer if they
• 10:08
  Speaker 8: feel whatever they're going to say is going to incriminate themselves,
• 10:12
  Speaker 8: even if you believe that getting the truth off your
• 10:15
  Speaker 8: chest might help you. In fact, prosecutors can use whatever
• 10:19
  Speaker 8: you're saying to Taylor guilt based on their narrative of
• 10:24
  Speaker 8: what happened. So rather than say anything, you should remain
• 10:28
  Speaker 8: quiet and silent to keep all your options open so
• 10:32
  Speaker 8: that you can review all the evidence in its totality
• 10:35
  Speaker 8: and decide what, if anything, you should say at trial
• 10:38
  Speaker 8: on the witness stand. But not to cops.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Well, but when I say a cop approach, I don't
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: hit the gas and take off one hundred and ten
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: MP eight, I don't try to get away, I don't
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: try to avoid the questions, and I certainly don't worry
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: about a potential jury trial.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: So you know, I'm taking everything you say with a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: box of salt filled.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Now, the theory that Brian Coburger did not act alone.
• 11:05
  Speaker 9: What Before Coburger removed from his parents' all Brightsville, Pennsylvania home,
• 11:10
  Speaker 9: he asks officers a single question, was anyone else arrested?
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: Though many believe Coburger asked out of concern for his
• 11:17
  Speaker 9: family After the late night Raid. Bloom believes Coburger wanted
• 11:21
  Speaker 9: to know if his accomplice was already in custody.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Leading the throng of legal eagles that insist Coburger did
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: not act alone, is renowned author Howard Bloom. He wrote
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the definitive book on the Idaho murders, When the Night
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Howard, explain yourself.
• 12:01
  Speaker 10: Well, first, let me offer a caveat to what you
• 12:04
  Speaker 10: just said.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying he acted alone.
• 12:07
  Speaker 10: I'm saying the theory deserves attention, and it deserves attention
• 12:12
  Speaker 10: after all the documents we've seen in recent days, which
• 12:16
  Speaker 10: include an analysis of what happened by the defense's own witness,
• 12:23
  Speaker 10: doctor Brent Turvey. He raises many of the questions that
• 12:27
  Speaker 10: I came about independently. If you look at the devastation,
• 12:31
  Speaker 10: this wasn't just a stabbing, This was a massacre. The
• 12:36
  Speaker 10: four students were stabbed over one hundred and fifty times
• 12:40
  Speaker 10: in totality. I mean, try raising your hand one hundred
• 12:43
  Speaker 10: and fifty times, and this happens, the police say within
• 12:46
  Speaker 10: a thirteen.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Min hol On, hold on, hold on, can I see
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the photo Brian Coburger thinking he looks all buff showing
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: off all of his muscles. This guy worked out all
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the time and was constantly flexing himself. So you're telling me, oh,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: dear Lord in Heaven, I asked for it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: A skinny kid, but whatever.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So you don't see those muscles on his He's got
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: some guns going on right there. So you're telling me
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: you're basing your theory on the fact that he's too
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: skinny and scrawny to raise his arm one hundred and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: fifty times.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to do that.
• 13:25
  Speaker 10: I'm not saying that for an hour all the time
• 13:29
  Speaker 10: and two floors of the house in the darkness. And
• 13:32
  Speaker 10: also both the prosecution and defense have said that there
• 13:36
  Speaker 10: is a possibility that another weapon was used, that were
• 13:41
  Speaker 10: Kelly received wounds from another weapon, that there was also
• 13:44
  Speaker 10: are both agree that there is a possibility that they
• 13:48
  Speaker 10: were staging, that the victims were covered up with a
• 13:52
  Speaker 10: comforter and they moved them around.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: That also that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 10: There was a cleanup afterwards, but the prosecution is not
• 14:01
  Speaker 10: denying that that's a possibility too.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: I think all these elements as.
• 14:06
  Speaker 10: That are laid out by the defense statements raise questions that.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Need to be looked at.
• 14:12
  Speaker 10: I think we're seeing things when we look at the
• 14:15
  Speaker 10: new evidence when released.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: That really don't fit into the timeline.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I really believe Susan Hendricks, who's joining us,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: a journalist, investigative reporter, author of Down the Hill, might
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: descend into the double murder in del Phi.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Susan, maybe a UFO.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Flew over and little Green men transported down into the
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: King Road address and murdered them along with Coburger. Maybe
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: that happened. Is it possible, Yes, possible. Is it probable? No,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: it's not probable. You know, Howard Bloom is renowned as
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: an investigative journalist, as an author, but I think he's
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: way off, and I think that somehow the this alternate
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: suspect theory got planted in his head by Coburger's defense.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, other than him saying.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: He couldn't raise his arm one hundred and fifty times.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I've raised my arm thirty five times while he was talking.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so no saying was there a cleanup?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Well, based on the crime scene photos that I saw
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: that I refuse to publish because of their gory nature.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Out of respect to the victims' families. I didn't see
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: much of a cleanup going on. I think he's been
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: infected by the defense bug.
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:37
  Speaker 11: I go back to the Odinis theory, Nancy, when you
• 15:40
  Speaker 11: can argue anything in public, online, but in court, and
• 15:44
  Speaker 11: of course the expert witness of the defense, it's going
• 15:47
  Speaker 11: to be in there that yes, there could be a
• 15:48
  Speaker 11: second person, a co worker. He studied serial killers, so
• 15:52
  Speaker 11: he may have thought about this four months, maybe even years.
• 15:55
  Speaker 11: What he's going to say, was anyone else arrested? I
• 15:57
  Speaker 11: believe he acted alone. Yes, Sir was bloodsheded terrific considering
• 16:02
  Speaker 11: the amount of times he stabbed people. But I believe
• 16:05
  Speaker 11: the prosecution would approve that that it is doable by
• 16:08
  Speaker 11: one person.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Said straight out to special guests joining us, Chris McDonough,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: homicide detective, former homicide detective. What do you make of
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: the theory that Bloom is asserting that Coburger had an accomplice,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: or maybe Kiberger was accompliced, not the purp in chief.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: Well, I think the first thing that needs of his
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: consideration is the defense is going to hire experts that
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: are going to say what they want them to say,
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: and they're going to create that, you know, those theories
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: that those roads are going to run down. However, I've
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: examined all of the photographs that are available, and I've
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: come to my own conclusions that based on you know,
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: some of the evidence that we can see is Coberger
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: acted alone, and there's a whole bunch of reasons behind that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: I believe he straddled both of those girls who were intoxicated,
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: sound asleep in the bed, and he blitz greened and
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: attacked them. And we used to have a terminology that
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: said the knife went on full auto okay because of
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: the rage. And then when you take that into Coberger's
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: personality type, he sees people like bugs. He does not
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: see them with empathy or anything like that. And then
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: while he was killing both of those girls, who were
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: struggling and fighting backwards, I either were kicking from underneath
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: the blankets. The blood evidence showed that I believe at
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: that point his sheath became dislodged from wherever it was
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: and because Xanna had come in come into the room.
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: When Xanna got in the room, he chased her into
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: her room, and the blood evidence showed because there's blood
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: on the doorway going into the room.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: I believe he.
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: Caught her, stabbed her, and she fell against the wall
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: between the bed and the night stand. And it was
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: at that point Ethan woke up on his right elbow,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: leaned forward, and Coburger gave him a quick coup de gral.
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: Ethan was out probably within six or seven seconds, even
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: also trying to kick, and Xana began to fight, and
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: that's where he straddled her on the ground against her chair,
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: where she was subsequently found. And that was brutal. So
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: two people doing this, the I personally do not believe
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: the evidence showed that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, now let me understand this.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: This all tipped off, started ignited in your mind, Howard Bloom,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: author of When the Night Comes Falling, Because at the
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: time of arrest, Kyberger said, who else was arrested?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: That's what got you going?
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: No, not at all.
• 19:01
  Speaker 10: What got me going was where the crime scene photographs,
• 19:06
  Speaker 10: the discussion of a cleanup, the discussion of the number
• 19:10
  Speaker 10: of wounds, the Bill Thompson talking about his second weapon,
• 19:15
  Speaker 10: and are still trying to grapple with the question.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Of a motive. Why would he have picked that house?
• 19:22
  Speaker 10: The defense still wonders why the prosecution was going to say, well,
• 19:26
  Speaker 10: he just picked it at random. Well, nothing Coburger did
• 19:30
  Speaker 10: that night seems in random. Iss He had planned the event,
• 19:33
  Speaker 10: he had turned off his phone, he had obviously brought
• 19:38
  Speaker 10: some clean up materials. Either way, he's wearing baggies or
• 19:40
  Speaker 10: a suit to cover the blood.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: And yet he picks a house.
• 19:44
  Speaker 10: Where there are a number of cars, I think it's
• 19:46
  Speaker 10: five cars parked in front, there's a door dash delivery.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Why does he go there? Why does he go up
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: to the third floor.
• 19:53
  Speaker 10: I think there was a motive involved, and the motive
• 19:55
  Speaker 10: involved someone else, And as you said before, maybe Coburger
• 19:59
  Speaker 10: was the pomplish Maybe he was helping someone who had
• 20:02
  Speaker 10: a genuine motive commit the perfect crime.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown psychoanalyst out of
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: She's the author of deal Breaker. You can see her now.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: On Peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Marshall dot com.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I find.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: It very very difficult to believe that anyone would go
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: along with Brian Coburger's Zeny theory to go murder horribly, horribly,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: horrifically murder for innocent students. He didn't even know. Who
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: is he going to rope into that scheme. Let's just
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: think about that for a moment.
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, he wanted the glory all for himself, right,
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: Why would he share the moment of victory with another person?
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: I mean, as I've said so many times on your show,
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: he wanted to triumph over and dominate these beautiful young
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: students who were having the kind of life he could
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: never hope to have. Right, he had to blot them
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: out of existence because he could never achieve what they achieved.
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: He wanted to insert himself into their lives and they
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: probably didn't even have the time of day for him.
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: I mean metaphorically, It's not like he really maybe contacted them,
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: or maybe he did on social media and they didn't
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: get back. So why would he want to bring in
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: another co conspirator to blot out their lives when that
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: was his biggest achievement in his own life. It doesn't make.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Sense crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: I feel like you probably know why we're here. We're
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: detectives from Idaho, and we're here because of the case
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: in Moscow. And as soon as we mentioned that. Then
• 21:57
  Speaker 7: he stopped and he said, I don't want to talk anymore.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: From ABC.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: He slaughtered them. I don't care why he did it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I don't care about his motive. They're never coming home
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and they died a horrible death.
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: And what Brian's about to understand is that his virginity
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: is being traded for half a cigarette and that his
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: mother had better pack some momissary orders so that he
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: has items to trade.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Author Howard Bloom insisting tonight Brian Coburger did not act alone.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: But I'd like to direct everyone's attention to what Dylan Mortensen,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: who survived Coburger's murder rampage, what she.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Said about the attacker listen.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: And then ultimately her looking up.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: I heard her scream and she ran downstairs because she
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: saw someone.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure she.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Said she one's here, and she's screamed.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: And just randomn series and I called for a name.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: They jump up and lock my do work.
• 22:53
  Speaker 12: So I'm so scared.
• 22:56
  Speaker 9: And I heard someone in the bathroom.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: When I heard her cry, I heard You're gonna be okay.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: To help you. Susan Hendrix correct me if I'm wrong,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: But doesn't she describe one assailant.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: She does.
• 23:09
  Speaker 11: She describes someone dressed in black, pretty tall, described him
• 23:12
  Speaker 11: as a basketball player, physique with bushy eyebrass.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Just one Sidney Summer joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I want to reiterate what Dylan Mortensen said that night,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and I want to make sure Howard Bloom and Philip
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Dubay's airpaces are working. Sidney Sumner. What was said at
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: the time by Dylan Mortenson.
• 23:41
  Speaker 12: Mortenson described hearing and seeing a man walking around in
• 23:46
  Speaker 12: her home. She at some point, here's one of her
• 23:49
  Speaker 12: roommates say someone's here, and then she overhears a male
• 23:54
  Speaker 12: voice saying, I'm going to help you. At this point,
• 23:57
  Speaker 12: she steps out of her room trying to unders what's
• 24:00
  Speaker 12: going on, and she sees this man walk past her,
• 24:03
  Speaker 12: and she describes him as wearing all black in a
• 24:06
  Speaker 12: mask that shows just his eyes. And she speaks with
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: the officer, trying to give a rough description of this
• 24:13
  Speaker 12: man taller than her lanky. That's who she sees in
• 24:19
  Speaker 12: her home. There's no mention of the second person.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Philip Debay, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney. I mean, Philipdbay,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: this is what you did for a living, you find
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: somebody else to blame.
• 24:32
  Speaker 8: There is absolutely no way that this one scrawny man
• 24:36
  Speaker 8: can take down four people merely because he has a knife.
• 24:40
  Speaker 8: Look at him. At a minimum, one person probably could
• 24:43
  Speaker 8: have knocked him down, maybe somehow rested the knife away
• 24:47
  Speaker 8: from him, kicked him, punched him, held him, and prevented
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: all that carnage. So obviously he had a confederate unseen
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: dale Mount because he knew that they were going to
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: be met by multiple people in that house. I mean,
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: let's face it, this is a reputed party house and
• 25:04
  Speaker 8: there's going to be at least four or five people
• 25:06
  Speaker 8: living there, and you have to be prepared. So what
• 25:09
  Speaker 8: do you do. You bring a co confederate with you
• 25:12
  Speaker 8: to get the job done. And I think the reason
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: why we haven't heard from that co confederate, if you will,
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: is because that person is likely a fifth victim. As
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: dead men tell no tale.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait, please put him up.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So now not only is there another co defendant, but
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: that co defendant is.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Dead, killed by Brian Coburgner. But we just haven't found
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: his body yet.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: So you're really taking this all there running with it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So you think, okay, you know, can we deal with reality.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Medical Examiner Terran County.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Never a lack of business in the Morgue there. He
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: is an estate lecturer at the School of Medicine at TCU,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: and he's a star of a hit podcast, Mayhem and
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the Morgue.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: With this number of wounds, okay, one hundred and fifty
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: all in, we think because as you've told me many times,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: knife wounds can overlap on a victim to the point
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: where it's like stabbing jello.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You can't really tell how many times it's been stabbed.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Due to the.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Moveable nature of human flesh, how could you possibly.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Tell that more than one weapon was used.
• 26:39
  Speaker 13: So with the stab wounds, sometimes you can tell that
• 26:43
  Speaker 13: if it's a single edge or a double edge, you
• 26:45
  Speaker 13: can get an idea of different type of knives being used.
• 26:48
  Speaker 13: But the problem with stab wounds is they can look
• 26:51
  Speaker 13: very similar, so different knives may leave the same injuries. Now,
• 26:56
  Speaker 13: with the description of the individuals that are killed, one
• 27:00
  Speaker 13: of them has been possibly strangled and had her head
• 27:03
  Speaker 13: kind of smashed in hit several times in the head
• 27:07
  Speaker 13: fractures of skull that could have been done with a
• 27:10
  Speaker 13: k bar knife. The handle of the k bar knife
• 27:13
  Speaker 13: is actually quite thick, and he could have used the
• 27:15
  Speaker 13: actual knife that he was stabbing them with to also
• 27:18
  Speaker 13: beat them as well as he was stabbing them. So
• 27:21
  Speaker 13: to me, I think all those wounds could have happened
• 27:23
  Speaker 13: in a very short period of time. It's fairly easy
• 27:26
  Speaker 13: to stab someone and then he can be switching up
• 27:28
  Speaker 13: hitting them with his fists, hitting them with the handle
• 27:32
  Speaker 13: of the knife as well. Giving the blunt force injuries
• 27:35
  Speaker 13: that's described on one of the victims. I think that
• 27:38
  Speaker 13: it's easily you could have him shifting up how he
• 27:41
  Speaker 13: is stabbing and hitting them, and then it's easily done
• 27:45
  Speaker 13: by one person, could have be done by two people
• 27:48
  Speaker 13: with different weapons. Stabloms are a little hard to differentiate
• 27:52
  Speaker 13: as far as types of weapons.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: So back to you, Howard Bloom. I've yet to get
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: to the DNA issue. And the only fact that is
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: somewhat disturbing to me is I think the prosecutor was
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: just so happy to just wrap this up with a
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: bow and get rid of the case. That's disturbing to me,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: and the thought that there could be a second assailant.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: He just doesn't want to be bothered with that. I
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: do not want an assailant walking free. I want Coburger
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to go down, but if he had help, I want
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: that person behind bars for the rest of their life
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: or the death penalty. That said, nothing has convinced me
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: at all that there are two assailants.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Why is it beyond the realm.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Of possibility that Coburger did use two weapons.
• 28:50
  Speaker 10: The idea that he carried two weapons in seems to
• 28:53
  Speaker 10: me a bit absurd, But also the whole two weapon
• 28:57
  Speaker 10: theory that's not mine, that's built time Umson, the prosecutor
• 29:01
  Speaker 10: in the case, said, there's a very good possibility that
• 29:05
  Speaker 10: two weapons were used. Two weapons to me, one hundred
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: and fifty knife wounds. That leads to there being two suspects. Also,
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: staging of the bodies, cleaning up afterwards, the lack of
• 29:17
  Speaker 10: any sort of motive.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: All these pieces come together.
• 29:21
  Speaker 10: Not to say that there was another accomplice, but that
• 29:26
  Speaker 10: raises the possibility that needs to be explored.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Also, as you pointed out quite clearly.
• 29:32
  Speaker 10: And there was a rush to judgment in this case,
• 29:35
  Speaker 10: everyone involved one this whole case to disappear. They couldn't
• 29:38
  Speaker 10: wait to tear down the house. They couldn't wait to
• 29:40
  Speaker 10: settle the case. Let's try to get some real answers.
• 29:43
  Speaker 10: Even they accepted the settlement without having any kind of allocution,
• 29:48
  Speaker 10: trying to get the answers to where the knife is
• 29:51
  Speaker 10: at least, I say their mysteries that still exist there.
• 29:55
  Speaker 10: And I think we owe responsibility to the victims and
• 29:59
  Speaker 10: to the tax payer is of Idaho who funded this investigation
• 30:02
  Speaker 10: to try to get to the bottom of things.
• 30:05
  Speaker 12: Trying on the location of the emergency something he's talking
• 30:10
  Speaker 12: talking to you don't know.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: What what is there of the emergency?
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: What is the rest of the address?
• 30:24
  Speaker 12: Oh, Kings Road?
• 30:26
  Speaker 13: Okay, And there's a house or an apartment.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: It's the house. Can you repeat the address to make
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: sure that I.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Have it right.
• 30:35
  Speaker 12: I'll talk to you guys. We're we have a delight
• 30:38
  Speaker 12: over next to them.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: This guy who's slaughter who ripped apart four beautiful co eds,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: ripped them apart with a military ta bar. Not that
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: guy is whining about his broccoli and the other inmates.
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: Here's a call coming in, Brian.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: This is not a hotel.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: One thing we have to address in this theory that
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger did not act alone. I don't buy it.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Nothing has convinced me otherwise yet. But believe me, if
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: there is another assailant, I want them behind bars.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: That is why I feel that we have to examine it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Does it amount to anything, maybe not, but still we
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: have to examine it. I want to talk about not
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: only the one hundred and fifty stab wounds and Howard
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Blooms assertion one person could not do that.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, wait just a minute, Susan Hendricks.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Don't you recall the case of a female murdering a
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: male with one hundred plus stab wounds during some crazy
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: sex play remember that? Oh?
• 31:48
  Speaker 11: Yes, yes, I believe it is possible here and clearly
• 31:52
  Speaker 11: we've seen it in other cases as well. And by
• 31:55
  Speaker 11: the way, the two weapons, I think it was the
• 31:56
  Speaker 11: back of the knife and the bleed. I think that's
• 31:59
  Speaker 11: what the.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Prospcutor what do you mean with Kaylee?
• 32:04
  Speaker 11: She had some injuries that may have been she was
• 32:08
  Speaker 11: injured by the back of the knife toward in her
• 32:11
  Speaker 11: facial area and her team.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: That explains a lot, okay, Doctor Kendall Crown's hearing Susan
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Hendrick's explanation. The back or the hilt of the knife
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: being used. Would that make a difference in your analysis
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: at all?
• 32:27
  Speaker 13: So, the back of the hilt of the knife being used,
• 32:29
  Speaker 13: to me, it could go along with the injuries you're
• 32:33
  Speaker 13: seeing the Blunchfort's injuries, and also it could be the
• 32:36
  Speaker 13: knife being driven in all the way to the hilt
• 32:39
  Speaker 13: being a very deep stab wound leaving injuries as well.
• 32:42
  Speaker 13: So to me, it just all goes along with the
• 32:44
  Speaker 13: fact that it's a single individual causing all these wounds.
• 32:49
  Speaker 13: They just switch up what they're doing with their one weapon.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I believe her name was Bryn Spetcher, Susan Hendrix,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: who was convicted stabbing her boyfriend over one hundred times.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: And then of course there's Jody Arius who stabbed Travis
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Alexander thirty plus times and didn't have a problem with
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: it at all. But for some reason, Howard Bloom, you
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: seem to think that while these two women could perform
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: could murder with an ie stabbing over and over and over,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: you don't think Coburger could do it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 10: Well, you're in the cases you're talking about involves just
• 33:28
  Speaker 10: one victim. Here we're talking about four different victims on
• 33:32
  Speaker 10: two floors. Of the house in darkness, and we know
• 33:36
  Speaker 10: that at least two of them fought back, and the
• 33:40
  Speaker 10: prosecution itself has raised the possibility of a second weapon.
• 33:44
  Speaker 10: All these pieces come together, I think, to raise the
• 33:47
  Speaker 10: possibility that there might well have been another assailant. Edit
• 33:51
  Speaker 10: on to the motive, edit on to Coburger's statement, was
• 33:54
  Speaker 10: anyone else arrested?
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: It raises a lot of doubts.
• 33:58
  Speaker 10: And to use Dylan Mortons as a witness, well, her
• 34:02
  Speaker 10: testimony has been very mercurial, has changed throughout the many
• 34:06
  Speaker 10: interviews she's given with the police. I mean, I feel
• 34:09
  Speaker 10: for her. She's a victim in all this, but at
• 34:11
  Speaker 10: the same time, she is not the most reliable witness.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Put him up, Howard Bloom, You've got a nerve saying
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Dylan Mortenson was not a reliable witness.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Sheiling.
• 34:32
  Speaker 10: She says she saw one assailant. She says she saw
• 34:35
  Speaker 10: one man in black. At one point she said he
• 34:37
  Speaker 10: was carrying a vacuum, and another point she said, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 10: was really too drunk to figure out what's happening. And
• 34:42
  Speaker 10: your reliable witness just also happened to wait eight hours,
• 34:46
  Speaker 10: eight hours before calling the police, and then she thought
• 34:49
  Speaker 10: they were unconscious.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: Other time she says she saw blood. So that is
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: your reliable witness.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, straight back to you, christ May Donna, could if
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you shed some light on the theory that there were
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: two assailants now that you've heard where bloom is coming from.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: Sure, that's one of the questions that's not being asked
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: is what's in Brian Coburger system. That evening, one of
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: the last homicides I worked was a single individual that
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: had slaughtered some folks and the knife went on folato.
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: There were hundreds of stab wounds and as the doc
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: has shed and as Susan was reported that that knife
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: that cave our knife, the back of the hilt of
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: that knife, I believe was utilizing the blood. Evidence shows
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: it on Kayley excessively as well as Xana excessively. And
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: that's probably the two weapon theory here. What we're not
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: asking though, is what was going on in Brian Coburger system.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: We know what the toxicology results are for the victims.
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: They were incapacitated, they were sleeping. But Brian Coolberger in
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: that eight hour time that was just brought up, came
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: back to the scene to see his work that morning.
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: You know, and if in fact this was a two
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: perpetrator problem, whether or not the sharpest tools in the
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: shed because somebody came up with the idea of leaving
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: the knife sheet there.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: So not just one idiot but two. Yeah, that's kind
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: of hard to take in. So, Howard Bloom, you also
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: point out DNA on the stairwell and on a glove.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I believe that Chris mcgunne spotted the glove that I
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: at the time out in the parking lot, and I
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: believe Chris you're the one that showed it to police.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: So I guess, Horrod Bloom, you're using that as fodder
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: for your two perp theory.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: The DNA.
• 36:59
  Speaker 10: No, I'm raising the question, why wasn't that DNA analyzed?
• 37:05
  Speaker 10: Why wasn't the prosecution and the Idaho State Police going
• 37:11
  Speaker 10: through the trouble really just taking the time to put
• 37:15
  Speaker 10: this through the DNA file try to find out who
• 37:18
  Speaker 10: it belonged to. It seems that when you don't want
• 37:20
  Speaker 10: to know the answers to questions, they didn't ask them.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: This isn't Hendricks.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true that the state tried to get a
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: DNA match on that spec of DNA and regarding the handrail.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: That could have been anybody.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: This was a party house that was in and out
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: of the house. But didn't they try to get a
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: DNA match?
• 37:39
  Speaker 11: Yes, and I always go back I note to Delphi
• 37:42
  Speaker 11: because I know so much about that case. But there
• 37:44
  Speaker 11: was some DNA of unknown people on the girl's clothes,
• 37:48
  Speaker 11: meaning if you're around anyone, it could show. As you've said,
• 37:52
  Speaker 11: it was a party house, it could have been someone
• 37:56
  Speaker 11: in that homes.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, look at the grub hub truck. They're
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: hugging people and talking to people. That's very, very easy
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to transfer DNA right there. So my point is Howard
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Bloom said, why didn't they try to find out?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: They did try to find out, didn't.
• 38:15
  Speaker 11: They bolutely did, and they settled. The defense is now
• 38:21
  Speaker 11: trying to try it in the court of public opinion.
• 38:23
  Speaker 11: And I will say online the people who believed there
• 38:26
  Speaker 11: was someone else there really believe it, and they're sticking
• 38:29
  Speaker 11: with it no matter what the event.
• 38:31
  Speaker 13: Tell me exactly what's going on.
• 38:35
  Speaker 12: One of our one of the roommatesh's passed out and
• 38:38
  Speaker 12: she's drung glass and.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Sht wake me up. Oh and they saw some man
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: in their house out site.
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Speaker 11: N are you with the patient?
• 38:48
  Speaker 12: Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing
• 38:51
  Speaker 12: it around, and I just tell you what happened pretty much, what.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Is going on currently as someone passed out right.
• 38:57
  Speaker 12: Now, I don't really know what pretty much for him.
• 39:01
  Speaker 11: Okay, well, I need to know what's going on right
• 39:03
  Speaker 11: now if someone has passed out, can you find that out?
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll come.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Now I'm hearing Brian Toberger. Can sue Sydney Sumner?
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Sue who?
• 39:16
  Speaker 12: Well he could sue id oc that short video of
• 39:21
  Speaker 12: him in his jail cell. The ideos he did trace
• 39:25
  Speaker 12: that week to a specific person who resigned and did
• 39:28
  Speaker 12: not face any kind of punishment for leaking that photo.
• 39:32
  Speaker 12: But Brian Cohberger could come back and say that the
• 39:35
  Speaker 12: prison owes him some kind of damage for letting that
• 39:39
  Speaker 12: get through the cracks into the public.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, okay, this is totally bass. Afterwards, doctor Bethany, look
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: at him. Look how red his hands are from cleaning things.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: There he is cleaning a shoe like he's been out
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: in the mud.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: He hasn't been anywhere.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: He's obsessively cleaning and rear ranging his shells. So now
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: he's going to sue because somebody link this what damage
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: didn't do him. He's already a four time convicted killer.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Don't you have to hurt someone's reputation. How's that going
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: to hurt his reputation?
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: It's already ruined, Nancy.
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: All I see is power and control.
• 40:15
  Speaker 14: If he can't control the four victims that he's slaughtered,
• 40:19
  Speaker 14: now he's going.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: To control the shoe and his jail.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: In his jail, cell, I mean, that's what I see.
• 40:25
  Speaker 14: You know, Nancy, the reason I do not think that
• 40:28
  Speaker 14: he acted with another person is that I believe this
• 40:32
  Speaker 14: was a sexually motivated crime. I believe he was sexually
• 40:35
  Speaker 14: excited while he committed the crime. Over the one hundred
• 40:39
  Speaker 14: and fifty stab wounds was something that he Sadism and
• 40:46
  Speaker 14: sexuality and arousal were all fused in his mind in
• 40:51
  Speaker 14: some kind of way. So why would he share that
• 40:54
  Speaker 14: glory with another perpetrator. That's something that somebody does alone.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I say, what you're saying is coming home. I get it.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: He would never share all the glory with somebody else.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: So the fact to you, Chris McDonough, that he would
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: sue over the leaked video, it's absurd.
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know what, Nancy, I want to be
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: the first to advocate that you run the depositions, because
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: you know, if I was ISP or the DA's office, etc.
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: I would want one of my own teams sitting there
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: during those initial deposition periods. And the first question I
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: would ask him is go down that line, so exactly
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: how did you do this? Brian? And so I think
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: this is absurd, but it's consistent with his behavior. Again,
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: he sees this whole process, and he sees people as
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: the doc has pointed out, power control and dominance, and
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: he looks at people as bugs and he doesn't see
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: them as human beings like we do.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a really good point. Philip Doubay, veteran
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: trial lawyer. If he does follow through and sue over
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: this link video we're showing right now, he can be called.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: It's not like a criminal trial for you do bake
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: and hide behind the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: The other side, the respondent can put him on as
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: the first witness and cross examine him as a hostile witness.
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: Of course they could.
• 42:34
  Speaker 8: And they could also summon him to a video conference
• 42:37
  Speaker 8: room to do his deposition, and they can sit him
• 42:40
  Speaker 8: down under oath and digress away from his precious torque
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: claim for invasion of privacy in his jail cell, where
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: by the way, he has no expectation of privacy even
• 42:51
  Speaker 8: constitutionally or intoward, and they will drill him on every
• 42:55
  Speaker 8: single crime fact that the public would love to know about.
• 43:00
  Speaker 8: If he refuses to answer, counsel can go into court
• 43:03
  Speaker 8: and get sanctions and compel him to respond, and if
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: he doesn't under Idaho law, the ultimate doomsday sanction could result,
• 43:11
  Speaker 8: which is a dismissal of his case with prejudice.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: We wait as justice ent foles and we remember an
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: American hero, Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard, Lee County Sheriff's Department, Mississippi,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty and leaving behind a grieving.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Wife and daughters.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: American hero Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard Nancy Gray signing off
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: goodbye friend.