Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TEEN CHEERLEADER FRENZY STABBED BY BOY, 15, DAD TRIES TRACKING APP TO FIND BODY

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TEEN CHEERLEADER FRENZY STABBED BY BOY, 15, DAD TRIES TRACKING APP TO FIND BODY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful young teen cheerleader
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Speaker 1: Frenzy stabbed by a teen boy dad having to use
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Speaker 1: a tracking app to try to find his girl's body.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:24
Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: Savannah Copeland is a thirteen year old middle schooler in Tennessee.
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Speaker 2: She has big dreams of becoming a forensic anthropologist and
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Speaker 2: is an all star athlete, excelling in gymnastics, karate, and cheerleading.
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Speaker 2: But things take a deadly turn when Savannah vanishes in
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Speaker 2: the middle of the night.
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine you wake up in the morning, you
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Speaker 1: get everything ready for your children, and then wake them
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Speaker 1: for breakfast, and your.
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Speaker 3: Child is not there.
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Speaker 1: That is what this little thirteen year old cheerleader's parents experienced.
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Speaker 3: Listen, She's never.
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Speaker 4: Gone out as far as I know, you know. I
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Speaker 4: mean I could look at her life three sixty every
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Speaker 4: single day and I could see she didn't sneak out.
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Speaker 5: She never went out.
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Speaker 4: We never had to worry about that.
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Speaker 3: From our friends.
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Speaker 1: Wat E six Michael Coplan, little thirteen year old Savannah's father,
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Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what happened that horrible night.
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Speaker 1: First of all Life three sixty. We've all heard of it.
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Speaker 1: Many people know about it, many people don't what it is.
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Speaker 1: To Barry Hutchinson, joining US, veteran law enforcement and detective
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Speaker 1: now owner and chief investigator at Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Barry,
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Speaker 1: it's quite an investigative tool. Life three sixty explain.
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Speaker 6: It can be used to track the moonments of whoever
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Speaker 6: the phone belongs to. As you know, Nancy, the cell
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Speaker 6: towers phones can be pained on every location wherever the
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Speaker 6: phone sends signals and the triangulation pattern, and it's really
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Speaker 6: really helpful to track the movements of victims and where
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Speaker 6: they were particular times, to establish motives and everything else involved.
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Speaker 4: In the case.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Lauren Colin, joining US an investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. You can find her
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Speaker 1: at Popcrime dot Tv. Lauren, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Explain to me what happened that night, because I find
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Speaker 1: it very unusual. This little thirteen year old girl was
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Speaker 1: always where she said she would be be it at school,
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Speaker 1: at church, at cheerleading practice on the way between those
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Speaker 1: three locations. Never once had she not been home when
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Speaker 1: she was supposed to be home. What happened that night?
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Speaker 1: What do we know at the beginning? What did the
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Speaker 1: parents find that morning?
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Speaker 7: What we do know is that, as you mentioned, her
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Speaker 7: parents woke up and she wasn't there.
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Speaker 3: They panicked.
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Speaker 7: I used air tags for my kids, but I have
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Speaker 7: her Life three sixty is also amazing.
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Speaker 3: So her dad pulled the app.
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Speaker 7: Open and he realized that, oh my gosh, she's nearby.
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Speaker 7: She was sort of at this trail by this community pool.
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Speaker 1: Lauren, When you say the trail led along side of pool,
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Speaker 1: is that the community pool?
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Speaker 3: We're talking about the neighborhood pool, so to speak.
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Speaker 7: Yes, it's the broad Acre's neighborhood Nancy, And if you
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Speaker 7: look online, this neighborhood is described as warm and charming.
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Speaker 7: It's actually a very popular pool and a popular trail.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to talk to Barry Hutchinson again, law
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Speaker 1: enforcement and owner of Barry and Associate's Investigative Services. Barry,
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Speaker 1: when you look at Life three sixty, okay, be kiss.
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Speaker 1: I've got two teams. I don't know how this happened,
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Speaker 1: but they just turned seventeen and they're always going in
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Speaker 1: different directions. Now I know where they're supposed to be.
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Speaker 1: But this Life three sixty is amazing. It can tell
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Speaker 1: you if they're on foot because it shows little sneakers walking.
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Speaker 1: It can tell if they're sitting in a car, even
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Speaker 1: if the car is not moving. It can tell if
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Speaker 1: they're in a moving car and how fast the car
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Speaker 1: is going. And it shows you a map where they're headed,
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Speaker 1: what street they're on. And my children have it on
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Speaker 1: me as well. So another feature of Life three sixty,
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Speaker 1: Barry Hutchinson, is that if you know the right button
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Speaker 1: to push, it can show you their trail that day.
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Speaker 1: And that's what Lauren Colin was talking about, the trail,
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Speaker 1: So explain the trail. It almost looks like a digitized
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Speaker 1: footprint line little dots showing you where they've been.
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Speaker 3: How does it do that, Barry.
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Speaker 6: It's all done by satellite and geo fencing. It's a
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Speaker 6: very very great tool. This shows everything. But one thing
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Speaker 6: I want you to keep in mind also doesn't necessarily
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Speaker 6: one hundred percent that's where the person was. It means
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Speaker 6: that's where the phone was.
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Speaker 3: Okay, Barry Hutchinson.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how old your children are, but if
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Speaker 1: you have a child that seteen I guarantee you their
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Speaker 1: phone is with them, unless you're actually you're right, Barry,
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Speaker 1: unless it's been physically taken away from them. So Lauren
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Speaker 1: Colin joining me, investigative reporter, Lauren, you're telling.
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Speaker 3: Me that the dad opens up the Life thy sixty
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Speaker 3: app trying to find out where is she.
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Speaker 1: Savannah's not in her bed, and he looks at where
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Speaker 1: she's been because apparently her.
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Speaker 3: Phone by that time was dead.
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Speaker 1: What happened exactly the night before she disappears?
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Speaker 8: Listen getting a call that his daughter is missing. Michael
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Speaker 8: Copeland heads back home to search for Savannah using the
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Speaker 8: Life three sixty app that shows where the phone goes.
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Speaker 8: They could see the path that Savannah took, and at
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Speaker 8: one time the app shows the family that Savannah when
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Speaker 8: missing between midnight and two thirty eight, but does not
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Speaker 8: show her exact location. Starting in the general location, the
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Speaker 8: family goes door to door asking if someone has a
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Speaker 8: doorbelled camera that might have seen what direction Savannah was
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Speaker 8: going in to no avail.
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Speaker 1: Lauren Colin, that is heartbreaking. So the parents see this trail,
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Speaker 1: the dad does, and they start walking the trail door
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Speaker 1: to door asking people, have you seen Savannah? And in
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Speaker 1: my book don't be a victim. I ask parents, guardians,
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Speaker 1: caretakers to keep photos of their children, current photos on
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Speaker 1: their phone and any other identifying features that they can
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Speaker 1: show people immediately, and to always know what their children
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Speaker 1: are wearing, what their backpack looks like, anything about them. Now,
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Speaker 1: tell me about this so here it is first thing
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Speaker 1: in the morning. Dad goes to work, He gets to
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Speaker 1: call Savannah, it's not here. He races home and they
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Speaker 1: start going door to door along this life three sixty trail.
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Speaker 3: Tell me about that.
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Speaker 7: Yes, they were frantically looking for their child, and they
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Speaker 7: followed the path that they saw on the app, which
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Speaker 7: was so helpful until they were able to connect with
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Speaker 7: law enforcement and finally go to the trail behind the
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Speaker 7: community pool.
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Speaker 1: What is hard to believe is that many people have
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Speaker 1: actually found fault with a little thirteen year old cheerleader
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Speaker 1: for leaving her home in the middle of the night
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Speaker 1: based on her history. As I always say, when you
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Speaker 1: don't know a horse, look at his track record. I
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Speaker 1: have never once seen my daughter or son or know
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Speaker 1: of them crawling out the window or leaving the house
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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night.
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Speaker 3: Does that mean it will never happen? No, I'm just
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Speaker 3: saying it never happen.
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Speaker 1: When you don't know what's going to happen, you look
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Speaker 1: back at what has already happened. In this case, this
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Speaker 1: little girl had never left home before. Savannah Coplan, just
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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, all caught up in middle school and cheerleading,
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Speaker 1: had never snuck out before.
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Speaker 3: So why that.
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Speaker 1: Night of all nights in thirteen years, it had never happened.
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Speaker 1: And I submit she was lured out, lured out, bringing
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Speaker 1: to mind the case of another thirteen year old little girl,
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Speaker 1: Nicole Lovell. Nicole Lovell, we believe was lured out by
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Speaker 1: a phone app or an online dating apps such as
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Speaker 1: kit Kik, Lured out of her home. Her mother discovers
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Speaker 1: the next morning she's gone. Nicole also lured out by
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Speaker 1: an older teen boy. She also is stabbed dead and
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Speaker 1: her body found beside the road. It's a phenomena straight
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Speaker 1: out to Philip Dubey, joining US high profile lawyer out
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Speaker 1: of LA with the Public Defender's Office.
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Speaker 3: A Philip teen crime.
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Speaker 1: I always have considered teen killers as more dangerous than
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Speaker 1: adults because they.
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Speaker 3: Don't have a conscience.
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Speaker 1: Yet they don't understand the gravity of what they're doing.
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Speaker 1: So they are acting without any moral compass at all,
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Speaker 1: as in the case I just told you about Nicole Lovell,
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Speaker 1: just thirteen years old, who was lured out of her
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Speaker 1: home with her mom by an older teen David Eisenhower,
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Speaker 1: who I believe had been a valedictorian small private school
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Speaker 1: before he went on to be an.
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Speaker 3: Athlete scholar at college.
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Speaker 1: He had just gotten there seventeen ish years old, luring
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Speaker 1: this little girl out because he did not want anyone
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Speaker 1: to find out about their sex relationship. That's what happened
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Speaker 1: right there. So, the luring out of a little girl
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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, like Savannah Copeland, I find it very
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Speaker 1: difficult to understand how people believe that.
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Speaker 9: How people blame the child, Well, first of all, it
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Speaker 9: depends on what you mean by luring out. If the
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Speaker 9: child was being lured out to be killed, and yes,
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Speaker 9: that's a different analysis, But if the child was being
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Speaker 9: lured out just to hook up, get to know one another,
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Speaker 9: and it's sort of like that Romeo and Judy.
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Speaker 1: Game thirty in the morning, Dubey, I've told many a joury,
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Speaker 1: nothing good happens after midnight.
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Speaker 3: If you're getting.
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Speaker 1: Lured out your bedroom with your parents at midnight.
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Speaker 3: It is not for anything good. I mean, do you
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Speaker 3: have children for Pete's sake?
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Speaker 9: No, I understand know, and this is exactly why.
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Speaker 3: Well there you got. Why did I even ask you
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Speaker 3: a question? You know, when you do have children, you're
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Speaker 3: gonna understand.
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Speaker 1: There's no good reason for them to be leaving the
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Speaker 1: home at midnight.
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Speaker 3: They were lured, and it's not for a good reason.
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Speaker 3: What to go have milk and cookies.
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Speaker 9: The luring takes two. The child could have said, no,
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Speaker 9: I'm not turning out in each other.
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Speaker 1: I've got a teen year old girl need to get
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Speaker 1: to know somebody at two thirty am.
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Speaker 9: Welcome to the twenty first century. Where do you think
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Speaker 9: we are? Nowadays? Kids communicate online, they communicate through their phones.
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Speaker 9: They want to hook up, they want to get to
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Speaker 9: know one another, and mom and dad's certainly not going
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Speaker 9: to allow it at that hour. So what do they do?
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Speaker 9: They sneak out? You know, the real question is.
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Speaker 1: Maybe in your world, maybe you snuck out at two am,
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Speaker 1: But that's not what we're talking about.
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Speaker 3: Yes, I know about cell phones.
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Speaker 1: I bought my children, so I pay the monthly bill
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Speaker 1: for their cell phones. Yes, I know about cell phones.
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Speaker 1: But that's a whole another thing. Having a cell phone
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Speaker 1: and getting lured out of your home where your everybody's
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Speaker 1: asleep and you have to sneak out at twelve midnight.
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Speaker 3: That is luring. You know what. I can't talk to you.
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Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Jory Crawsen joining us a psychologist faculty at Saint
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Speaker 1: Leo University and consulted with the Blue Wall Institute, author
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Speaker 1: of Operation SOS. Doctor Jory, can you talk some sense
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Speaker 1: into Dubay. There's no good reason, no innocent reason for
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Speaker 1: a child just thirteen, she'd just turned thirteen, for Pete's sake,
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Speaker 1: to get lured out of her home with her parents
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Speaker 1: at midnight.
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Speaker 10: There's no good reason. But there is a reason, some motivation,
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Speaker 10: some enhancement, something to get her out of that home.
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Speaker 10: The big key will be, you know, you get more
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Speaker 10: information off of that phone. If there were text messages,
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Speaker 10: or if he got close to the home, the home
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Speaker 10: Wi Fi would register on his phone. There's got to
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Speaker 10: be some motivation and that's got to be documented, and
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Speaker 10: it can be documented through that phone.
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Speaker 2: Tennessee teens Savannah Copeland has vanished suddenly during the night,
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Speaker 2: and her father has not heard from her for hours.
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Speaker 2: Where is thirteen year old Tennessee cheerleader Savannah?
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Speaker 1: And then mom and Dad's worst nightmare, worst nightmare comes true.
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Speaker 11: At around four forty five this afternoon, through dispatch, we
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Speaker 11: received the call on a possible deceased body on a
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Speaker 11: trail over a Broad Acre subdivision. Our authors responded to
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Speaker 11: that did find a body.
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Speaker 12: Reaching out to the Knox County Sheriff's Office, deputies begin
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Speaker 12: searching for Savannah Copeland. Nearly twelve hours after deputies are
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Speaker 12: called in to help search, Michael Copeland here sirens and
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Speaker 12: says he knew they had to be for Savannah. A
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Speaker 12: teen walking along a popular trail that runs behind a
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Speaker 12: public swimming pool in the Broad Acres neighborhood in Powell,
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Speaker 12: finds the lifeless body of Savannah Copeland. Savannah Copeland has
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Speaker 12: been stabbed multiple times by what appears to be a
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Speaker 12: small knife and left to bleed to death alone on
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Speaker 12: the dirt trail.
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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Shareff Tom Spangler with Knox County
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Speaker 1: Tennessee Sheriff's Office along with our friends at WAT E
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Speaker 1: six to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US renowned chief medical
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Speaker 1: examiner at Terrant County that's Fort Worth and a steam
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Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Crowns,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. How can you look
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Speaker 1: at Malta stabbings and determine a when there's overlapping stabs,
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Speaker 1: how many times the victim has been stabbed and two
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Speaker 1: that the knife use the cutting instrument was, as it
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Speaker 1: has said been said shallow.
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Speaker 13: So you can look at the stab wounds and get
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Speaker 13: an actual count. Sometimes when they crisscross an overlap, you
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Speaker 13: can still get an idea based on how the other
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Speaker 13: stab wounds, what the stab wounds would look like, and
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Speaker 13: kind of separate out the ones that have crisscross or
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Speaker 13: overlapped and get an.
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Speaker 5: Approximate account account.
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Speaker 13: Now, determining whether the knife is a short blade or
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Speaker 13: a long blade can be difficult because the body has
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Speaker 13: what is called elasticity, or when you push in it
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Speaker 13: can deform a little bit, and so you can shove
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Speaker 13: a short bladed knife in deeper than the actual length
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Speaker 13: of the blades. So determining the overall blade length sometimes
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Speaker 13: can be difficult, but you can get a rough approximation
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Speaker 13: depending on the depth of the stab wound.
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Speaker 1: Back to the overlapping stab wounds. And I encounter this
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Speaker 1: in the investigation in the stabbing death of Travis Alexander
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Speaker 1: by Jody Arius May she Rot in Hell. He was stabbed,
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Speaker 1: and it was argued over and over and over how
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Speaker 1: many times Travis had been stabbed before he was shot
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Speaker 1: in the head. Some authority said twenty seven, twenty eight,
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Speaker 1: twenty nine, and thirty times due to overlapping stab wounds
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Speaker 1: where you are in a frenzy stab mode and you
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Speaker 1: stab repeatedly, and some of the stab wounds are actually
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Speaker 1: exactly where other stab wounds are. Now, the playability of
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Speaker 1: human flesh also lends to confusion in determining how many
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Speaker 1: stab wounds explain.
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Speaker 5: So those are what is called mees lines.
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Speaker 13: It's what when your surgeon is doing an operation, they
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Speaker 13: try to cut along those lines to make it so
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Speaker 13: the skin doesn't pull apart and creates less of a scar.
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Speaker 13: So when you're being stabbed, they're not concerned about you're cosmetics,
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Speaker 13: so they'll go against these knees lines, and the skin
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Speaker 13: itself will pull apart and make the wounds look gaping
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Speaker 13: or enlarged. Based on that pulling a part of the skin.
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Speaker 13: And again also with stab wounds, you have to consider
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Speaker 13: that they don't necessarily just stick the knife in, but
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Speaker 13: they will also stick it in and then pull it down,
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Speaker 13: making large gaping holes as well. So they can be
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Speaker 13: very confusing when you get multiple stab wounds of this nature,
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Speaker 13: which we generally call overkilled because you don't need to
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Speaker 13: stab someone that many times to kill them.
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Speaker 1: In this case, it was determined very quickly that a
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Speaker 1: small knife was used to murder the thirteen old cheerleader,
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Speaker 1: Savannah Copeland. And let me add she has a twin brother.
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Speaker 1: She has two brothers.
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Speaker 3: Let me think their names.
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Speaker 1: Twin brother Casey and other brother Britain. As I recall
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Speaker 1: that said, a special bond between twins is like no
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Speaker 1: other boy girl twins and another brother. That said, back
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Speaker 1: to the number of stabbings and the assumption that a
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Speaker 1: small knife was used, A small knife, and this is
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Speaker 1: probative as well, and I'll explain later. A small knife
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Speaker 1: is deemed to be two to six inches long. Okay,
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Speaker 1: could that be a pocket knife? Doctor Kendall Crowns.
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Speaker 5: Yes, that could definitely be a pocket knife.
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Speaker 13: Usually they're small blades that are opened and fixed.
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Speaker 1: Another issue doctor kill the Crown's and believe me, all
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Speaker 1: of this is critical as it comes to proving this case.
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Speaker 1: We know all about Brian Coburger, right. We wish we didn't,
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Speaker 1: but we did. In that case, the killer, who the
19:19
Speaker 1: state says is Brian Coburger, murdered four people and what
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Speaker 1: appeared to be a frenzy stabbing because they were slashed
19:27
Speaker 1: and stabbed multiple times. It was anything but a frenzy stabbing.
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Speaker 1: In that case, a fixed blade knife was used. How
19:36
Speaker 1: is that different from a pocket knife? And how can
19:39
Speaker 1: you tell from the stab wounds that a fixed blade
19:43
Speaker 1: or a shallow knife such as a pocket knife was used.
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Speaker 3: How can you differentiate that? This is important?
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Speaker 13: So pocket knives when you open them up, will become
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Speaker 13: fixed at the end when you lock it into place,
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Speaker 13: so it will be a fixed blade at that point.
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Speaker 13: One thing you can look for with a pocket knife,
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Speaker 13: if it's driven all the way into the hilt, it
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Speaker 13: will leave a basically an abrasion, kind of a semicircular
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Speaker 13: abrasion around the stab wound itself. If you're using a
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Speaker 13: larger fixed blade knife, you can get similar similar injuries
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Speaker 13: when the knife is shoved in all the way again
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Speaker 13: to the hilt or the cross guard, whatever you want
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Speaker 13: to say, and it will leave a pattern abrasion marks
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Speaker 13: on there. So what you're looking for with the pocket
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Speaker 13: knife as you look for those characteristics kind of abrasions
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Speaker 13: around the side of the stab wound, whereas if you
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Speaker 13: have a large fixed knife you look for this the
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Speaker 13: abrasions from the cross guard itself.
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Speaker 2: A gruesome discovery along a popular trail path. Thirteen year
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Speaker 2: old Savannah Copeland's body has been found brutally stabbed, just
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Speaker 2: hours after she's gone missing. Who killed the thirteen year
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Speaker 2: old athlete?
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Speaker 1: Who lord a thirteen year old little girl out of
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Speaker 1: her home while her parents were sleeping after midnight. Now,
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Speaker 1: to listen to defense attorney Philip Dubay, who does not
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Speaker 1: have children, I might add.
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Speaker 3: That's just normal. It's not normal.
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Speaker 1: It is normal for teens, even children to communicate on
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Speaker 1: their phones and their tablets, but getting lured out of
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Speaker 1: your home after midnight or at any time is not normal.
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Speaker 1: And why would you do that after midnight so the
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Speaker 1: parents can't know unless it was for a nefarious reason.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about a thirteen year old little girl just
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Speaker 1: turned one of a set of twins, her brother and
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Speaker 1: other siblings left behind to add to the tragedy, if
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Speaker 1: that can even be imagined.
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Speaker 3: The purp is identified.
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Speaker 11: Tonight just around nine pm, detectives identified a person of
21:57
Speaker 11: interest and arrested a fifteen year old male and is
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Speaker 11: being charged with second degree murder in the death of
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Speaker 11: a thirteen year old young lady.
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Speaker 1: A fifteen year old boy just turned By the way,
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Speaker 1: you were just hearing share of Tom Spangler of Knox County,
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Speaker 1: Tennessee Sheriff's Office from WAT six.
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Speaker 3: But the dad, Savannah's father, weighs in it was a
22:30
Speaker 3: betrayal of trust.
22:32
Speaker 4: I'm angry at this kid's family that I have opinions about.
22:37
Speaker 1: Now, not only a fifteen year old boy just turned fifteen,
22:43
Speaker 1: but also known to the.
22:45
Speaker 3: Family a family friend.
22:47
Speaker 1: You heard of Michael Copeland, Savannah's dad, speaking to our
22:50
Speaker 1: friends at WAT E six. He calls it a betrayal
22:54
Speaker 1: of trust. He said he's angry at the boy's family
23:00
Speaker 1: that he now has opinions about. I'd like to hear
23:02
Speaker 1: what those opinions are. Why was the boy out at
23:05
Speaker 1: that time of night?
23:07
Speaker 3: Why was he luring a.
23:09
Speaker 1: Little girl who wo just turned thirteen out of her home?
23:13
Speaker 1: So many questions swirling right now, but I want to
23:16
Speaker 1: circle back to doctor Kendall Crowns joining US Medical Examiner
23:20
Speaker 1: at Arrant County Chief Medical Examiner at Arrant County, Savannah.
23:25
Speaker 1: A thirteen year old little girl bled out. She didn't
23:31
Speaker 1: get apparently stabbed in the heart, so she died instantly.
23:34
Speaker 3: She laid there in the middle of the night, all
23:38
Speaker 3: alone in the.
23:39
Speaker 1: Woods, as her life's blood slipped out of her. How
23:46
Speaker 1: long would it have taken her to die, doctor Kendall Crowns.
23:51
Speaker 13: If she's not stabbed in the heart, It depends on
23:54
Speaker 13: what vessel has hit, how many times she's stabbed. It
23:57
Speaker 13: can be minutes to anywhere from a few minutes to
24:01
Speaker 13: ten to fifteen minutes, depending on what gets stepped.
24:04
Speaker 1: Veterman's trying lawyer, Philip Dubay, defense attorney out of LA
24:07
Speaker 1: So this may have been a frenzy attack with so
24:10
Speaker 1: many stab wounds. But given the probative evidence, the evidence
24:16
Speaker 1: we're going to find out at autopsy, he would have
24:21
Speaker 1: left her there on the ground in the woods at
24:25
Speaker 1: two thirty am, all alone and walked away as she died.
24:33
Speaker 9: Thoughts, Well, first of all, you're asking a fifteen year
24:36
Speaker 9: old to think like an adult and to render aid
24:38
Speaker 9: and to try to get help.
24:39
Speaker 1: I'm asking you your opinion on that. Is it anything
24:44
Speaker 1: but cold blood? Because he could have called for help
24:47
Speaker 1: to save her, but he didn't.
24:49
Speaker 5: No.
24:49
Speaker 9: One of the clues is that the prosecutions filed this
24:52
Speaker 9: as a second degree. A first degree in Tennessee would
24:54
Speaker 9: be a premeditated killing. This was clearly unpremeditated, which is
25:01
Speaker 9: probably why they filed it as a second If it
25:04
Speaker 9: were truly alluring that showed he had murder on his
25:07
Speaker 9: mind by keeping an unshallow folding knife on his person,
25:12
Speaker 9: then that clearly shows an intent to kill. It sounds
25:15
Speaker 9: like something erupted. There was some type of paroxism, if
25:18
Speaker 9: you will, of fury out on that dirt trail where
25:21
Speaker 9: he suddenly erupted in blind rage and stabbed her up.
25:25
Speaker 9: But I don't think it was planned. I think it
25:27
Speaker 9: was spur of the moment, which is why they're going
25:30
Speaker 9: to do a transfer hearing, at which time the judge
25:32
Speaker 9: will decide if this kid stands trial as an adult.
25:35
Speaker 1: I would like to correct you. In Tennessee, the law
25:40
Speaker 1: defines second degree murder as one of two types and
25:44
Speaker 1: one of those types. Is a knowing killing of another,
25:50
Speaker 1: repeat a knowing killing of another. It is not a
25:56
Speaker 1: voluntary manslain such as you are describing.
26:00
Speaker 3: Under the law. When we hear the words knowing, that.
26:03
Speaker 1: Means that you have a mensreea, that you have an intent,
26:10
Speaker 1: a knowledge of what you're doing, A knowing killing.
26:14
Speaker 3: This is not a voluntary manslaughter.
26:18
Speaker 1: Is not a dui where you get drunk but you
26:21
Speaker 1: did not intend on actually killing somebody.
26:24
Speaker 3: This is a knowing killing.
26:27
Speaker 1: As you just try to pull the wool over my
26:29
Speaker 1: eyes in Tennessee.
26:31
Speaker 3: It's a knowing killing. That's murder.
26:34
Speaker 9: Tee, No, I understand, but remember there's two ways you
26:36
Speaker 9: can do it, explicitly or implicitly. If you stabbed her
26:40
Speaker 9: four or five times and kept doing it. Yes, it
26:43
Speaker 9: is so reckless that anybody could infer subjectively and objectively
26:48
Speaker 9: an intent to kill without actually uttering the words I
26:51
Speaker 9: am going to take you out. Your life is over.
26:54
Speaker 9: The conduct of engaging in repeated stabbing suggests it implies
26:59
Speaker 9: that intent to who do you.
27:00
Speaker 3: Think you're talking to? Do you think I just fell
27:03
Speaker 3: off the turnip truck. I have tried many many homicides.
27:08
Speaker 1: Don't try to muddy the water by spouting out the
27:12
Speaker 1: definitions under the law of implicit and express intent. Because
27:16
Speaker 1: the law says murder can be proved by implicit evidence,
27:22
Speaker 1: implicit intents or express Now implicit, let me.
27:28
Speaker 3: Start with express.
27:29
Speaker 1: That's when I say, dobet, I'm killing you now, and
27:32
Speaker 1: then I shoot you. My words have expressly shown I
27:37
Speaker 1: intend to kill you. Implicit means the jury can judge
27:42
Speaker 1: by the actions or other extrinsic evidence, such as repeat stabbing.
27:48
Speaker 3: If he did not mean to.
27:49
Speaker 1: Kill her, then why stab her over and over and
27:53
Speaker 1: over and leave.
27:54
Speaker 3: Her to bleed out dead? You know, so all of.
27:57
Speaker 1: Your legal mumbo jumbo, don't even try that with me
28:00
Speaker 1: debate because the law says intent can be proven implicitly
28:05
Speaker 1: or expressly. And I would argue to a jury that
28:08
Speaker 1: when this many stabs, he had to intend to kill her,
28:12
Speaker 1: which supports a knowing killing, which is murdered too under
28:17
Speaker 1: Tennessee law.
28:18
Speaker 3: Are you saying that's wrong?
28:19
Speaker 5: No?
28:20
Speaker 9: But the endgame here is to spare this kid is
28:22
Speaker 9: transferred to the adult court.
28:24
Speaker 3: Just waste my time.
28:27
Speaker 9: No, the victory would be to keep the kid in
28:30
Speaker 9: juvenile court because he would max out. I think at
28:32
Speaker 9: age twenty one, whereas if he's found unsuitable for juvenile court,
28:36
Speaker 9: he'll go upstairs to adult court, where he could in
28:39
Speaker 9: theory do up to sixty years. And by the way,
28:42
Speaker 9: it was brilliant for the prosecution not to file this
28:45
Speaker 9: as the first degree because the jury could come back
28:49
Speaker 9: or the court could come back with a life without
28:51
Speaker 9: parole type sentence, So at some point this young man
28:54
Speaker 9: will get out.
28:55
Speaker 2: A fifteen year old boy is taken into custody after
28:58
Speaker 2: the brutal stabbing death of thirteen year old Tennessee cheerleader
29:02
Speaker 2: Savannah Copeland.
29:03
Speaker 12: Investigators are not saying what led them to arrest fifteen
29:06
Speaker 12: year old Malachiah Harris for the murder of Savannah Copeland.
29:09
Speaker 12: Harris is someone the Copeland family knows, someone they have befriended.
29:13
Speaker 12: Investigators haven't said what the motive for the murder is yet,
29:16
Speaker 12: but Malachia Harris's charge was second degree murder in the
29:19
Speaker 12: death of the teen.
29:20
Speaker 1: To Lauren Colin, investigative reporter, Lauren explain to me how
29:25
Speaker 1: she was found. How was thirteen year old Savannah Copland found?
29:29
Speaker 7: While her parents were searching for her nancy, they heard
29:33
Speaker 7: sirens in the distance and they thought to themselves, oh
29:37
Speaker 7: my gosh, this can't be good. And unfortunately, while a
29:41
Speaker 7: teen was walking the trail, she came across Savannah's body
29:45
Speaker 7: and called the authorities.
29:46
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how long this little girl suffered. A petition
29:51
Speaker 1: released by the court accuses fifteen year old Malachi Harris
29:57
Speaker 1: of stabbing Savannah multiple times with a pocket knife he
30:01
Speaker 1: took with him that night when he lured her out
30:04
Speaker 1: of her home after midnight, leaving her alone on the trail,
30:08
Speaker 1: telling no one. Her body laid there undiscovered until late
30:14
Speaker 1: the next day, when eighteen walking the trail finds her.
30:19
Speaker 1: Lifeless crime stories with Nancy Grace.
30:33
Speaker 3: To Lauren Cohen again, I understand.
30:37
Speaker 1: Prosecutors announced they will try Malachi Harris as an adult
30:43
Speaker 1: they want to.
30:44
Speaker 7: And on January fourteenth, there is going to be a
30:48
Speaker 7: hearing that will determine if he will be tried as
30:50
Speaker 7: an adult. But in the meantime, he is being held
30:54
Speaker 7: at the juvenile detention center that is called Richard L.
30:58
Speaker 7: Bean in Knoxville. Well and that Nancy is not a
31:02
Speaker 7: happy place.
31:03
Speaker 1: To Phillip debate, high profile defense lawyer out of la As.
31:09
Speaker 1: Many jurisdictions call it bindover process is when a juvenile
31:15
Speaker 1: is quote bound over or transferred to adult superior court.
31:22
Speaker 1: In most jurisdictions, there is a semblance of the seven Deadlys,
31:28
Speaker 1: seven deadly sins that almost automatically ensure a teen will
31:35
Speaker 1: be treated as an adult. I want to remind everyone
31:39
Speaker 1: that a teen is never put in an adult jail.
31:43
Speaker 1: If they are tried and sentenced as an adult, they
31:47
Speaker 1: go to a juvenile facility until they become twenty one.
31:51
Speaker 1: Then they go into an adult facility. Back to the
31:57
Speaker 1: bindover process and the seven deadlies. I should have these memorized.
32:01
Speaker 1: I don't the seven dead lists. It guarantee you a
32:04
Speaker 1: bind over to adult court. Murder, rape, sodomy, childlesstation, armed robbery, arson,
32:17
Speaker 1: an aggravated assault.
32:18
Speaker 3: Those are the seven.
32:19
Speaker 1: Aggravated assault with a weapon such as a knife or
32:24
Speaker 1: a gun, we shoot somebody. Those almost guarantee you'll be
32:30
Speaker 1: treated as an adult. What's your response to beate? Not?
32:32
Speaker 9: In Tennessee they do it a little bit differently. Their
32:35
Speaker 9: removal process requires a probable cause finding that the crime
32:40
Speaker 9: has been committed and that given the miners age reprior
32:45
Speaker 9: rehabilitative efforts, the sophistication of the crime and a mental
32:50
Speaker 9: health history, certainly whether or not the miner has a
32:54
Speaker 9: criminal record, and that the interest of the community would
32:58
Speaker 9: be served. The minor can be removed out of juvenile
33:02
Speaker 9: to the adult court of jurisdiction. And the stakes, as
33:05
Speaker 9: you know, Nancy, are quite high. This young man under
33:08
Speaker 9: Tennessee law could do between fifteen and sixty years in
33:12
Speaker 9: the state prison after the age of eighteen.
33:15
Speaker 1: Also, you pointed out, as I expected, how long a
33:20
Speaker 1: sentence could be if eighteen is treated as an adult.
33:24
Speaker 3: What you did not point out is how.
33:27
Speaker 1: Light a sentence could be in juvenile GV court GIV jail.
33:34
Speaker 1: He could walk free in as little as eighteen months
33:39
Speaker 1: with time credit for dating back to the time he
33:42
Speaker 1: was arrested eighteen months for multiple stab wounds on a
33:47
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl left to bleed out in the
33:51
Speaker 1: woods at two thirty a m away from her mother,
33:54
Speaker 1: away from.
33:55
Speaker 3: Her father and her home. I want to talk.
33:57
Speaker 1: About premeditation because to you, Barry Hudgeson joining me former
34:03
Speaker 1: law enforcement now chief investigator at Barry and Associates Investigations, Barry,
34:09
Speaker 1: when you lure a little girl out of her home,
34:12
Speaker 1: and as we said earlier, by somebody that's going to
34:17
Speaker 1: be determined by looking at text messages, phone calls, snaps,
34:23
Speaker 1: you name it, the intent will be there. I believe
34:27
Speaker 1: that helped lure her out. But also the fact that
34:31
Speaker 1: he goes to get her carrying a knife, So then
34:36
Speaker 1: they don't just go walk around the block. They don't
34:38
Speaker 1: sneak down to waffle house. He lures her to a
34:42
Speaker 1: densely wooded area, a secret location. All of that shows intent.
34:48
Speaker 6: To me, I would agree with you one thousand percent, Nancy.
34:51
Speaker 6: I mean he obviously had the fairyes ideas. I mean,
34:54
Speaker 6: why would he be taking her to a remote area.
34:57
Speaker 6: I mean to me, it all points to him wanting
34:58
Speaker 6: to have some kind of a se escapade with the
35:01
Speaker 6: young lady.
35:02
Speaker 5: May be heard.
35:02
Speaker 1: Oh then I just write down the word sex. Question
35:05
Speaker 1: mark Lauren Conlin. What is his motivation? Is it because
35:10
Speaker 1: he tried to have sex with a little girl I
35:12
Speaker 1: a raper and she refused? Or is it something akin
35:16
Speaker 1: to Brian Coberger who wanted the thrill of a kill.
35:20
Speaker 1: Do we know anything such as was she unclothed?
35:24
Speaker 3: Nancy?
35:24
Speaker 7: I have been digging and trying to figure out what
35:28
Speaker 7: his motive would be, and I come to the same
35:31
Speaker 7: conclusion as you hear as it was possibly sexually motivated.
35:37
Speaker 7: We don't know if she was found partially clothed or
35:41
Speaker 7: fully clothed. But I did notice on this young man's
35:45
Speaker 7: social media he follows the high school band, the Powell Band,
35:50
Speaker 7: So he didn't seem like he was into gang activity
35:54
Speaker 7: at all, because you know, that also crossed my mind.
35:57
Speaker 3: Could this possibly be Did you say he was the band? Wait?
36:01
Speaker 3: Did you say he was in the band?
36:02
Speaker 7: I do not know if he's in the band, but
36:05
Speaker 7: on his Facebook he follows only three things and one
36:08
Speaker 7: of them is the Powell High School Band.
36:11
Speaker 14: The teen accused of killing Savannah Copeland has been in
36:13
Speaker 14: court for status hearings at least four times. The suspect
36:17
Speaker 14: has sat quietly in the court even as he learned
36:20
Speaker 14: that state prosecutors intend to try Harris as an adult.
36:24
Speaker 14: Judge Tim Irwin has set a transfer hearing for January fourteenth,
36:28
Speaker 14: and that is the discovery deadline as well. Harris's court
36:32
Speaker 14: appointed attorney, Josh Hendrick, has filed a request for discovery.
36:36
Speaker 14: Assistant District Attorney General Rachel Hill told the court that
36:40
Speaker 14: genetic testing and other forensic testing results may not be
36:44
Speaker 14: back until after the first.
36:45
Speaker 3: Of the year. Very little has been released about Harris.
36:48
Speaker 3: So far.
36:49
Speaker 14: We know that he was known to the Copeland family,
36:52
Speaker 14: who has at times welcomed him into their home. Harris
36:56
Speaker 14: was living with his grandfather and several siblings at the
36:58
Speaker 14: time of the killing. Harris is being held in the
37:01
Speaker 14: Richardale Bean Detention facility.
37:03
Speaker 1: Not just a teen boy, but a family friend who
37:07
Speaker 1: the Copelands had welcomed into their home on multiple occasions.
37:13
Speaker 1: The degree of betrayal runs deep, and you hear the
37:17
Speaker 1: father state he is angry at the Purpse family as well.
37:25
Speaker 1: To Lauren Conlin, I've got so many questions, but explain
37:31
Speaker 1: to me what this boy's demeanor was in court.
37:35
Speaker 7: He was described Nancy as emotionless, kind of looking down
37:40
Speaker 7: at his hands. He didn't appear to have any type
37:43
Speaker 7: of remorse.
37:44
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious about the defense Philip Dubay
37:47
Speaker 1: because if he claims that it wasn't him, the fact
37:52
Speaker 1: that they are waiting for genetic testing indicates to me
37:56
Speaker 1: that they think they found DNA, likely his DNA at
38:00
Speaker 1: the scene or her DNA possibly on his clothing. I
38:04
Speaker 1: don't know, but there is DNA that's being tested right now,
38:07
Speaker 1: And it reminds me of Coburger, who almost got away
38:11
Speaker 1: with it if he had not left DNA on the
38:15
Speaker 1: snap of a knife hilt. So if there is DNA,
38:20
Speaker 1: he can't climb. It wasn't me. He's going to have
38:23
Speaker 1: to go with mental defect. And that's why it's so
38:27
Speaker 1: important that I'm able to match the knife up his
38:31
Speaker 1: pocket knife to those wounds exactly.
38:34
Speaker 9: Otherwise there really is no defense for the young man
38:36
Speaker 9: other than a menal defense. And obviously he gave a
38:40
Speaker 9: statement to the police. Would be my guests. The science
38:43
Speaker 9: evidence might not under these circumstances be enough, but it
38:46
Speaker 9: sounds like he copped out. Frankly, we're going to find
38:50
Speaker 9: out a lot about this young man. Given his age,
38:52
Speaker 9: he could have been in the throes of early onset schizophrenia,
38:56
Speaker 9: bipolar disorder, or who knows, maybe even a personality disorder.
39:01
Speaker 9: And again, the goal, the endgame at the transfer hearing
39:04
Speaker 9: is not innocence. It's to keep him retained in the
39:07
Speaker 9: juvenile court jurisdiction.
39:09
Speaker 1: Just stop right there, Number one, Do you have a shred,
39:13
Speaker 1: a sentilla, a speck of evidence that he has schizophrenia
39:19
Speaker 1: or did you.
39:19
Speaker 3: Just make that up.
39:20
Speaker 9: No, I'm just telling you that's going to be explored
39:23
Speaker 9: when you hear it. Like for example, Lauren talk you
39:25
Speaker 9: have no no, but there was a flat affect in court,
39:30
Speaker 9: you have no emotion. There's something obviously ailing the young man.
39:34
Speaker 1: Yes guilt to doctor Jory Crausen, could you explain why
39:39
Speaker 1: a personality disorder that Philip Dubay just fabricated.
39:45
Speaker 3: Is not a defense.
39:47
Speaker 1: It does not rise to a mental defect, and it
39:50
Speaker 1: is certainly not insanity. It could be for all I know,
39:53
Speaker 1: histrionic or narcissistic. That's not a mental defense.
39:57
Speaker 10: Yeah, neither of those are mental def as far as
40:01
Speaker 10: like a defense. You know, keep in mind, insanity is
40:04
Speaker 10: a legal term. It's not a psychological diagnosis or anything.
40:08
Speaker 10: What you're going to be looking at is his mental
40:10
Speaker 10: state at the time of the commission of the crime
40:15
Speaker 10: and what led up to that. That's why it's important
40:17
Speaker 10: to know about that relationship and things that happened there,
40:20
Speaker 10: because you're going to have behavioral traits. You're going to
40:23
Speaker 10: have his personality displayed, and that's something that you can
40:26
Speaker 10: document and when he does a court evaluation, the evaluator
40:30
Speaker 10: would get into those dynamics to be able to come
40:34
Speaker 10: up with a diagnosis to present to the court.
40:37
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at these cheerleader photos and imagining my
40:40
Speaker 1: little girl at age thirteen.
40:43
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know.
40:46
Speaker 1: Anything about this case, anything at all, text KC SOO,
40:53
Speaker 1: tip k C S tip two.
40:59
Speaker 3: Eight four seven for one pin one.
41:03
Speaker 1: At this moment, the state is building its case and
41:07
Speaker 1: the defense is building its own case.
41:12
Speaker 3: We wait for justice to unfold.
41:14
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,