Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Let's Talk About: The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hadlow
Transcript
- Caitlin Stryker: Hi. Courtney Richter: Hi. Caitlin Stryker: Welcome back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Today we are talking about The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hardlow. Hadlow. ⁓ Oh my gosh, I loved this ⁓ so much. Courtney Richter: Mmm. Yes! It's so good. It's so fun to drop back in to the Austin world, even though it wasn't, you know, it's not an actual Austin, but to have that feeling again that she did so well. She's attacking me. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. funny. ⁓ No, she did it she did it so well that like I felt like I was reading Jane Austen again, you know? And I was, and you're getting more of the story. And like ⁓ most of us, I feel like romance readers, like we always want more Jane Austen. ⁓ We always want more of the story. So... And this one really, I was so excited when I don't have my copy on me because I gave it to my mom like right away to read because that was like Courtney Richter: you Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: This book is so good, you're gonna love it so much. And, and I went out and, you know, like bought a copy of the book because I was like, No, I need to have this book because it's so, so good. Courtney Richter: classic on your bookshelf. This is one of the ones I would say like it's worth going out to buy. It's 100 % one you would reread, one that you'll talk about, one that'll stay with you. And we can do what, okay, I'm only, often, I know I know I normally give the synopsis, and I can, but because you're such a Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen fan, I didn't know if you wanted to talk about it a little bit. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. ⁓ Oh my gosh. ⁓ Okay. I feel like there's so much pressure because there's so many people who are like massive. Like they like know the story inside and out in a way that I do not. It's just like I always am like I just love it so much. You know what I mean? Like I've I've watched the BBC version a million times. I've read the book more than ⁓ My synopsis of Pride and Prejudice is gonna be ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, me too. Caitlin Stryker: So Elizabeth Bennet marries Mr Darcy. Courtney Richter: Which happens in this book. So basically I'll jump into it. This book, ⁓ it, it's like the story of Pride and Prejudice, like at the beginning, the part ⁓ one is kind of recapping what happened to the Bennet family during Pride and Prejudice and Mary's view of that. And it's really funny because I think our generation in general, we all know BBC Pride and Prejudice and we all know Keira Knightly Pride and Prejudice. Like Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: That's our call. And then a lot of us have read it like you and I, but most people have watched it as well, especially in our generation. It was a big movie, big show at the time. Well, BBC is back. This has taken this book and this is also a series. So this has got that similar kind of feel to it. That's a story that just takes you on a whole ride that can be across a special like the BBC did because you get all these parts of Mary's life. So Pride and Prejudice happens. We see Mary. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: First, she's, you know, close growing up with Jane and Elizabeth and then as they get closer and it's when she kind of like pulls herself back because Mrs Bennet is basically just awful to her. She's the only like unattractive sister and Mrs Bennet is the worst. Like she's, she's the worst of Pride and Prejudice. But now she's like, really the worst. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. She really is. remember I, I mean I remember studying Pride and Prejudice even in like lit class in university. And one of my professors made such a good point that like the deal with Mrs Bennet is that the only way for a young woman to have a future in this time was to get married. So if you don't get married, then you have like there is there is no support for you. And they didn't have the finances where like, you know, she could bankroll having one of her five, five daughters not be married. So it that was it. Like it was basically like getting married was your only opportunity at a at a job, like having a roof over your head. Like otherwise you were gonna be not just a spinster in that, you know, you would be sort of like a social outcast in some way. But for these gals, and they this book really does go into it because for Mary it does get quite tight that she may not, you know, get married. And ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ You wind up like sh it's like the their tutor who came in, right? And she was like, ⁓ I'm gonna be just like Mrs I can't I forgot the character's name 'cause she's very only in and out pretty quickly, but who like, you know, is walking the the images of her walking in like tattered boots down the, down the gravel driveway, you know, in the rain off to go to like another job to because she just works as a ⁓ as a as like a private school tutor Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: for young women. Courtney Richter: Different than a governess like a governess is set and does it which is something that gets offered to Mary in this book, but she vehemently does not want it. But with that even Mrs Bennet I agree and I understand other daughters why she was that way. But she basically like sets Mary aside. She's like, you're not as attractive as your sisters. You're the ugly duckling. You can just sit over here. Essentially, it's like what happens to Mary. ⁓ She's ⁓ mean then Mary needs glasses and her mother is devastated and like makes- Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. She does. Yes. Yeah. She's so mean to her. Like sh and Yes. Courtney Richter: But then because of classes, which is why I love this world because it still has such specific rules. Like Mary actually falls for like the son of the ocuologist, the one that's making her glasses. Oculist. And it's like, ⁓ no, no, no, that's too bel- No, no, no, too below you. Like it's not just get married dad, but you still have to marry within a certain level. And then it's so crazy because she, like, listen, it's a happy ever after book without going into too much spoilers. Caitlin Stryker: Yes Oculus Yes, yes. Oculus No no no. That's the thing. Yeah. Courtney Richter: But the pressure, but then the standards with the pressure, it's so fascinating on why I love this world so much because it's just constantly, there's like this bristle and my natural bristling personality, I would fight against it so hard. Caitlin Stryker: Right. ⁓ Courtney Richter: But I love when you read about a Jane that's just so happy to be in this world. It's so happy to just like marry Mr. Bingley and have her babies and just be pretty and unfortunate and like just loves it. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yes. Right, right, and then, oh god. And then I mean and and ⁓ Lydia with Mr. Wickham, right? Courtney Richter: ⁓ was just it was just as frustrating reading about it again how it went down. It really was like Lydia you idiot. ⁓ she just you idiot. Caitlin Stryker: It really was. such a like she's such a bubbling idiot too, like still in this one, you know. Courtney Richter: I still think she like won one over on her sister's and did like she's so proud of her failings and her most like it's just you gotta appreciate it. Caitlin Stryker: Reading it again with this whole with Mr. Wickham, and it's like he comes in and he's this total rake, and so you can see where, you know, she gets swept off her feet. She's this young woman. ⁓ And, and yet at the same time I'm still like what even reading it this time I'm like, wait, what is ⁓ so wrong with this guy? Like how does he have nothing? ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: You know, to like offer. But I think it goes back to your point of like, no, they have to be of a certain standing and it has to be done a certain way. Or, you know, and like even when Mary is like on her own, so after the Pride and Prejudice part of the book, and then Mary's like their and their father dies and so then ⁓ her friend Charlotte, her friend Charlotte marries Mr. Collins. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. then she, ⁓ who took over their family house? So Mr Collins, as we know from Pride and Prejudice, that this book, before we get to it, Mary was like, mom, I should marry Mr. Collins. Like, ⁓ stop trying to push Elizabeth on him. ⁓ Like, it should be me. We'd get along and and the mom was like, no, no, that's not possible. But then Elizabeth obviously turns down Mr. Collins because she's in love with Mr Darcy. Caitlin Stryker: Mr. Collins, who yeah. Yes. Yeah. Courtney Richter: And you see like she was right. She would have been perfect. They she goes after they've been kicked out lives with Mary and Mr. Collins and realizes she actually has a bond with Mr. Collins. They become great friends much, much to Charlotte's detriment. Over learning. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Anyway. Yeah. And Charlotte gets pissed about that 'cause it gets misinterpreted if they're like, ⁓ Well it does and it doesn't 'cause like you said, actually did have a bond and they would have been a great match. That was, you know, ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. But she wasn't, she wasn't thinking that at all. Like when they were, it was very innocent, but the appearance of it, which again at that time, the appearance is everything. And so Charlotte, who was ignoring her husband and basically hated that he existed, but made his house really pretty, all of a sudden was like, this is a problem. And it's like hanging out with him and talking with him again and trying to make the most of her situation because she was in Pride and Prejudice. Caitlin Stryker: No. Is everything? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Courtney Richter: close to being put on the shelf as well. She was older in age, she hadn't married. So she saw the prize that was Mr. Collins and like jumped on it caused friction with her and Elizabeth it caused issues and she took over their family home. They're like best friends in whole world took over their home. So there's a little bit of a problem with that. But Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, the moment the father died, then it passed on to the next male heir. The next male heir. Not like the family couldn't live. Courtney Richter: There's five sisters. None of them can be the heir. They need to get married before their father dies. That's like the whole thing of Pride and Prejudice because they're out on the street otherwise. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: No. like you know situation. And then and then you had to base and then the hope was that you would marry, you know, like someone who's basically ar aristoc aristocracy. ⁓ Aristocratic. Aristocracy. There we go. I got between saying aristocratic and aristocracy. And I was like, er. ⁓ Honest. Obviously. ⁓ And, and that Courtney Richter: Yes, a gentleman. Caitlin Stryker: even reading this book is still like this is such an actual barrier. Like it takes a minute to buy in that that it's all as serious as it is from modern times, right? ⁓ But then it's so interesting when Mary's going to live with and it's not even an option that she would go to live with Lydia and Mr. Wickham because their situation is too dire. And I'm like, it's painted as if they're in like a tiny studio apartment in the middle of nowhere with no running water. Courtney Richter: Yes. But there's also because the scandal around them, even though Mr Darcy swooped in and saved it, you still don't. It's like people can know but you don't want to flaunt it or like associate with it because then it can ruin your chances on the marriage market and your family name. So ⁓ it's like, Nope. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah, yes. so is so Bridgerton, right? the last season. ⁓ That was so good. ⁓ But yeah, that. It's just like it's all the keeping of appearances and like if somebody knows, you know, then you're in then you're in trouble. ⁓ What about I loved well I loved when she was dancing with the young man who and having a lovely time. Yes. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: And then Charlotte's like, You couldn't dance with him again. People will think that you're like Courtney Richter: You've done two dances with him. If you do a third, that's a statement and you are not allowed to do like they jump in. She's just dancing having a nice time. The sweet boy that's going off to like be a doctor, which by the way, he's going to be a doctor. He's going to medical school. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. And it's not good enough. Courtney Richter: It's like, how dare you? Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: How you dance with a future doctor more than twice. You've ruined shame to our house. Caitlin Stryker: You'll be destitute. ⁓ Oh man. It's like how we have ⁓ Courtney Richter: Bye! Can even imagine? ⁓ I just well, but that's also how much wealth they had like the idea that you really have to work and not just kind of be a figurehead of something in that time. ⁓ ⁓ they looked out of. Like, no, no. And it still does that even where she goes like she ends up with a lawyer and it's ⁓ like he has to get to a certain standing first ⁓ prove himself. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It then they really did. It's like ooh. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Which is just fascinating. But you buy in you're in that you're like, Yeah, okay, this makes sense. Of course, that's not who you can marry. ⁓ and so she goes and lives with her aunt finally, who's been so kind and talked to Mrs Bennet about marrying a kind way throughout the whole book is always like, I think maybe it's really hard for her when you're just comparing her to her sisters all the time. And if you looked at her as her own person, and not just compared to them, you'd see that she's not quite domestic. Like she's there. She's blooming in her own right, like she's quite Caitlin Stryker: You're in, you're in. Yeah. Yeah. Just Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: an interesting person and she just has the best relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Gardner, which is her aunt. Like it's so fantastic and they're so supportive of her. It's just. Caitlin Stryker: I love I loved when she got to that part of the book. And then I kept kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was like, ⁓ God. ⁓ Because the before when she was with her sister and that terrible Caroline ⁓ who was there being so mean to her. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah! is so much worse even in this book. Like she just continues. It's so funny because I played a version of Caroline Bingley in a Hallmark Pride and Prejudice. can't. ⁓ Unleashing Mr Darcy. ⁓ my gosh, I forgot. At least she missed her Darcy. I was basically Caroline Bingsley and in that she was awful too. But I forgot how much like she was just when I look at what it was based on. I'm like, right, because she was just trying to steal. So she was trying to take Mr Darcy and then Elizabeth got him and then she has her sets her Caitlin Stryker: Yeah it's You did? ⁓ that's right Yes, yes. Courtney Richter: set on this site set ⁓ my gosh site set on this Mr Ryder who takes an interest in Mary and so once again Caroline Bingley just keeps popping up trying to grab her man even before it she just didn't like them Caitlin Stryker: Yes. She just is like mean to Mary. Like well, she's mean to everybody. She doesn't like the Bennet's and she's mean to everyone. And even Mrs. Gardner is like, Ugh, I don't like this woman, you know. Courtney Richter: She doesn't like the Bennets. She's mean to everyone. She just takes it. She obviously has her own flaws and she just takes them out on ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Everyone. And yeah, And so then Mary leaves there. And then she's with the Darcy's for a bit. And that's like, and then ⁓ his younger sister comes. And it just she kind of feels like ⁓ I they have enough room for her to live there forever. Like she could probably live in a cottage on the side of their mansion. Like they really ⁓ this really reminds you and hammers home just how Courtney Richter: Yes, to make herself feel better for her shortcomings. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: how rich Mr Darcy is like just how in... Yeah. No. Courtney Richter: She has like a week and a half. He's away on business, whatever Mr Darcy does. ⁓ And she bonds with Elizabeth in a way that they didn't get to do for a long when they're like teens, they had kind of had space because she left Elizabeth and Jane alone because of her mother. ⁓ But then they start to bond and it's lovely. But then when Mr Darcy returns, she basically can recognize that he's too kind and polite to say it. But like Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: He is an introverted man. He does only really want to be with his wife and his sister. Like they have a silent way of communication. You can tell if it was now, he'd probably have anxiety and depression and like all these millions of things that make him the way he is. But he loves his sister and he loves Elizabeth deeply, deeply, deeply. But Mary, and they wouldn't say it, but she can feel that she's intruding on it. She's not quite in the inner circle once they're all there. They don't need her there. So then she moves on to Charlotte. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Charlotte and Mr. Collins. Courtney Richter: And that's when that trouble happens and then she ends up with her aunt after Charlotte basically kicks her out. ⁓ Basically kicks out and then she's ⁓ at her and she's still continuing to like learn and love and they have a great friend Mr. Heywood. Hayward, Tom Hayward ⁓ who ⁓ loves reading talking. just have these fantastic conversations. They are constantly he's pushing poetry on her which she's never read. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Basically. My Tom Habert. ⁓ Can we talk about the poetry date? Courtney Richter: The poetry and that she I love how this author captured what it's like learning to read poetry like the struggle that it is really you're like kind of like it's words. It's kind of nice sounding or images. But there is like reading poetry and then there's reading poetry and there really is like something clicks. And then it just makes sense in this way that you just you can't see it till you see it and then you're this whole other worlds opened up to you. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yes. Courtney Richter: And that is very much what Mary goes through. And I feel like she caught really well. And as well, she's talking to this super cute, man, that's just so lovely. And it's just so lovely for Mary and you love him. But it's so innocent. I mean, innocent even for that time, because obviously like kissing is a big deal at this time. But it's very like, you you read these other books where these men make these big declarations and very quickly and they've fallen in love from talking a couple of times. Like this really slow ⁓ The Mr Hayward. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is I mean, because well and because Jane Austen was like the the queen of the slow burn, you know, and the yearning and the like that falling in love from across the room and I can't talk because there's all these rules. So it has to be a slow burn. And Courtney Richter: Interest. Yes. Except I felt like this one didn't mean to be a slow because they already know that they're not in ballrooms. They're not they know she's a bit older. They know her sisters are married that she doesn't have it like- All it's out in the open. So like the permission to be a little bit forward with your feelings. I feel like it's ⁓ there Mary a little more than say her sisters when they were still living with her mother. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really good point that you make there. And then it's more that Mary's getting comfortable with figuring out what her feelings are and Mrs. Gardner, her aunt, who like spends this time kind of teaching her, like, you don't like yourself. Like you have to like yourself first before you're you know? And Mary's like, Well I... is entirely because of her mother treating her terribly her whole life and just telling her that she's, you know, basically like too ugly to be worth anything and nobody's ever gonna like to her face. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Constantly and behind her back. So we understand where and why she has these feelings about herself, but it's really wonderful the way that Mrs. Gardner just kind of like slowly makes space for Mary to discover that, like, maybe if you thought nice things about yourself, I think that's like basically what she says at one point. You would realize that, you know, you're actually can dress really nicely you ⁓ are very pretty in your own way, and it's not, and she's like, Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: you know, I'm- was considered very plain, but I, you know, found my way and and all of that stuff. And, um. ⁓ And that... Step into her own and... There's something about that journey within this book that's so wonderful as a reader. Courtney Richter: Yeah, she forces Mary to step into her own. She really like gives you that nudge. Part of it though is because she did do it once at the dance when she danced with Jack, she bought a dress that she had saved she put dressed herself up and then when she was told you can only dance with them two times and she had to refuse the third dance with him. She hurt his feelings and she felt so ⁓ awful about that his kindness is like a big trait of mari- innate kindness ⁓ and it Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: killed her that she hurt him that she had to basically pass on the dance and he knew what was up and she knew what was up. And so then she like backed off kind of ever trying to be shiny again, like it was like her one time and it blew up in her face. And so she really went drab and plain and just like accepted the lot her mom had told her wore her spectacles was like Okay with it. Even that her mom hated her spectacles had a mental breakdown. And Jack loved them. He's like, please wear them like loved them on her. It was just Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: He was so sweet and that destroyed her. So then she really takes this journey like you're saying with her aunt to come back to someone that can be that person again that can wear colors and dress for her body and like have that confidence. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. And you make such a good point that like that dress that she got and that she felt good in and everything that she used her money that she had saved up for. And you know, and then she tucks that away forever. And then her aunt's like, let's and then they go shopping again. And it's so it's aga once again, like you're gonna dress yourself nicely. You're gonna like it's it's sort of like... It's kind of cool because the story's really told in that way. Oop. That's okay. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Sorry, lamb. Caitlin Stryker: You guys, we are recording this so early for both Court and I because of our schedule. So we are having Courtney Richter: is an early, early morning hot take for us. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: really is. We are both barely awake and like ⁓ in corners of our... ⁓ Court you're still in your corny cozy corner. I have to be in a totally different room because my family is still dead asleep. ⁓ love it that Courtney Richter: Mmm. 6:30 in the morning here. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: I love that that was your alarm going off. ⁓ Oh my ⁓ But we had to make sure we talked about The Other Bennet Sister because it's Courtney Richter: Oh my gosh, it's because it's so good. And because the show I haven't watched it yet. But heard ⁓ if you listened, Catherine Center, the author Catherine Center, I was... told us to read this book and told us to watch the show. So we are following through and I'm so glad she recommended to read this book because it's such a fun ride with Mary. It's just it's a story you didn't know needed to be told. And then you're like, ⁓ this needed to be told. It's... Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Me neither, I can't wait. Yes. Museo. So And I even feel bad because I do remember like reading it you know the first time and being like, ⁓ Oh my god, Mary, you're so annoying 'cause she does kind of give the other girls a bit of a hard time over her because she's very like, ⁓ she's so earnest and she's so like these are the why would you behave that way? You know, like these are the rules. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Yes, ⁓ it all makes sense. And so it's so to see it from her perspective and how much she missed her sisters and wanted to be engaged with them and how she just protected herself by standing aside and being basically very lonely and on her own for most of her life. Which is why when she gets her friend Mr Hayward, she gets her aunt. It's like her redemption time. She dresses herself nicely. And then Mr Hayward has a best friend, Mr Ryder, who met in law school. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: and then basically realized he has enough money, he doesn't need to be a lawyer and it's too hard. So he just stopped... Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: essentially. Just like, nah this boring ⁓ and stayed really good friends with Tom. And I think there's a part of it is that Tom speaks so highly and loves Mary so much when he talks to them. Mr Hayward takes an interest. And because Mary literally is brilliant and has no artifice and just speaks her mind, which Ryder is so attracted to because Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: she's outside the rules of the norm and he's a rule breaker. He wants to live outside of like what society deems normal and acceptable. And so he sees her brilliance as a version of that. ⁓ That when we get to the point that he kind of tries to claim her, his thought process on it, I found so fascinating and really enjoyed. Like he basically likes, loves Mary because she's his opposite and is like, you fill in my gaps. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: when I am shallow. You are serious when I'm too flighty like together and he may I think they could have had a happy life together had she not already fallen in love with Mr Hayward, which is obviously who she's meant to be with. Caitlin Stryker: I think they ⁓ could but yeah, I f I feel like Mr. Collins and Mr Hayward are both better matches though. You know, like Ryder's I mean, more attractive than Mr. Collins for sure. ⁓ But he's the most yeah. Courtney Richter: to be like the hot kind of ⁓ yellow lab of the ⁓ of the group of men in this Yeah, or golden retriever. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Exactly. But but I think I I think that he's not intellectually able to keep up with Mary enough. Like I just don't think in the long run Courtney Richter: Yes, and then no, no, no, like this is the right choice. I just meant if you had to settle for someone like they did in this times, that would have been the place, which is the risk she runs. So basically as she connects with Ryder, Tom starts pulling back. They have this amazing week together at the lake. They're getting along so well. She realizes she's in love with him. She thinks he's starting to feel this way, but he's very shy, he's not really saying his feelings. And then Ryder interrupts their vacation because he's been visiting and like pushing on Mary and pushing on Mary. He brings Caroline Bingsley. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my god. When they show up, it's like, no. And you know it's gonna happen the moment she tells him that they're going. It's like, ⁓ great. He's gonna crash your party. Yeah. Courtney Richter: He shows up, which, ugh. Yes, the moment you're like, ⁓ there he's gonna be there. But she had enough time to really bond with Tom, they show up, they interrupt their plans to go on this hike, like they join this hike that Tom and her have been planning and obsessing about and so excited to go to this amazing view. As long as you know, the women are able to handle the hike, which I get and I understand from the times but another thing like how but do we really think the women can do it? ⁓ Which also to be fair, what they wear is not very conducive to hiking. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Of the time. Yeah. Okay. Courtney Richter: So it does present its own challenges for sure. Yes, but basically when he shows up, Tom starts pulling back. It's the old like someone else showing interest. He doesn't know what to do about it. The miscommunication, he'd be a better fit for you. We love hate when men, love hate when men decide someone else is a better fit and always blows up in their face. There's never one time that that's been like, you were right. Thank you. Thanks for stepping back. I wouldn't have been able to see my own mind had you not. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, he yep. Yeah. Huh? Always no. Yeah. Courtney Richter: taken that step back, so nobly, sir. I would have been so confused. How would I know how I feel if you also said how you felt? Caitlin Stryker: Right? Right? How do I feel? Yeah. And that's the thing too, right? That goes on here is nobody's saying how they feel. Nobody's really honest. Courtney Richter: UGH No, that's like the modern the now version of like, I don't want to tell you you're my mate. Like, can you just fuck off everyone and just let women know their own mind and decide how they feel about you with all the facts? Thank you. That'd be great. But we're the ones that play games. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. you we thought that. Right. Well, and isn't it so funny play games and if you think about it like this whole world that we're talking about is like where all the games originated from. Because we used to have no choice, right? But to play games. ⁓ Oh my god, I've got a frog in my throat now because it's Courtney Richter: Guess. Yes. Oh, yeah, there's literally the rules. Say you have to play certain games or you can't just outright say how you feel you have to do certain things. And this is there's a way you communicate it. There's a way that you make yourself known. There's a way you try to claim a woman. There is literally a game in play from the second you're out in society. So you're right. It's fascinating that that's kind of where it started. It's to where it is now. But I love where Mary like so she's mad. Tom is pulling back and she's frustrated. So her way of like Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: jibing at him is is jibing jabbing at him. It's ⁓ is to like side with Ryder, Mr Ryder on certain comments. And like, like that's how she and it like makes him so mad and frustrated. But he can't say anything because again, they're in this etiquette rule and they can't really say they feel so it's these like literally little digs that are just ⁓ the tiniest thing but it's Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Just teeny little like Courtney Richter: causing so much friction, which is such a talented thing to be able to write. Like it really is. It's like, yeah, nowadays it's like you'd have to be kissing someone in front of them to make them jealous. But this is just like, all they said is like, maybe they're right. And that's like, can't believe this. She's in love with him. Caitlin Stryker: But it's massive. But it winds up being massive. It is. It it Even as for Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. No. Totally. And then I even love how now as we're talking about it, I'm like, ⁓ like the the way that the fashion comes in in more than once, you know, and then as we're talking about this hike, ⁓ because they want to go see the site of the of the poetry, but with their first kind of date, which Mr. Gardner chaperoned. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Right, early in the morning to see the sunrise over over the t over the Thames, ⁓ just like the poem. ⁓ and now they're like going on this hike. So it's like as it it's a really fun kind of pattern that happens in the book, which is really enjoyable. It just like ramps upward each time, you know, and this one comes to a great big storm. Literal storm and emotional storm. Courtney Richter: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. and the guide are like, we need to go and they're like, it's beautiful. And they're like, no, we need to go and Ryder's like, but this is once lifetime, you're supposed to see the storm come and this is what your favorite writer wrote. Like this is what living is. Wordsworth is the poet. And they're like, this is what living means. So the I'm so Mary, to make Mr Hayward mad because she's upset that he's been pulling away from her. Says, yeah, let's see it for a minute. And of course they get Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Wordsworth, Wordsworth is the poet in Cape ⁓ I was like, Come on, we know this name. Yeah. Uh-huh. Courtney Richter: Drenched and poured down on and they have to like hide under some boulders and I mean they are in a mountain so I'm sure it really does get treacherous trying to go down in a storm But then when they get down they fall it's like this life or death that I'm like you're like we live in Vancouver like you're okay Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're okay. But you know, it's kind of like it's Courtney Richter: It's like into bed and like resting for tw- and that's all that would happen. It really would happen that way, but it's so fascinating, the things that were believed, like rain will make you sick, yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. ⁓ These are indoor people. So it's like it's very, ⁓ very difficult them to be outside any any any facet whatsoever. ⁓ which is I another one of those things and thankfully you kind of more think about it afterwards. Like when you're reading it, you're in. You are in that this is disaster. Courtney Richter: Yes, yes. Yes. It's just because we're chatting about this book that I'm like thinking this stuff. But when I read it, I loved it. And she literally the rain like resets her and she realizes like she was wrong. Tom was right. She should have listened to him. She knew her own intellect that they should also get off the mountain. But she was just her anger took over and she was just trying to hurt him and she did. And she makes the decisions like I'm going to tell him I'm going to tell him I'm in love with him and my feelings. I don't care about the rules and just like let it be known. But he leaves Caitlin Stryker: No, Sam, I Sam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: the next morning because he's so hurt and has been trying to pull back without telling just leaves a letter to go see his mom and then does like the Pride and Prejudice version of ghosting like goes to visit his mom and then just goes off the map where a letter can't reach him where he literally says where a letter may not reach me so he wouldn't have to hear the news of her being an engaged to Ryder even though he claims it's what he He's gone Caitlin Stryker: Without telling anybody. It's gone. Yep. Right! all the rules of the time, you know, she can't really like track not only is no. Courtney Richter: She's not even allowed to write him really to say how she feels. Not that it would have reached him because he went off the map. But ⁓ he ⁓ just literally just out of postal range, ⁓ even horseback. Gone. Letters shall not go here. ⁓ ⁓ but ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Off the map Literally. Yep. Yep. Gone. Yep. Courtney Richter: like the... at Ryder just doesn't see this clearly does not see the change in her like and as he's gone and just like goes full force visiting her when they get back and basically proposes but proposes that like they just take off and be lovers and go to Italy. ⁓ Like that's what he sets up for her. ⁓ No, she She's just like. Caitlin Stryker: She thinks about it and she's like, ⁓ Oh my God, did he just give me an indecent proposal? Like ⁓ Courtney Richter: that? And then he comes back the next day with like his, you know, ⁓ head between knees and like, I'm sorry, hanging his head. Like ⁓ I, I after like what that sounded like, but it's not what I intended. She's like, yeah, I realized after what that sounded like too. And I might not have been so kind in my ru- like rejection of you. And basically that's when he goes into the whole pitch about why he thinks they'd be good together and what he wants. And listen, as I've said, I am bad with a love triangle. ⁓ I, Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: know Hayward's the right person. But as I pitched to you like I get pulled into both I really do and it's hard for me even when there's clearly one even in this when it's like you know it's Hayward. It's not hard to know which ways this is going. But it's still like pulls me in. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Right. Yes, you really do. Yeah. Yeah. To the brink of the end of this Like you're like, there are not that many pages left. Like what is when is Tom coming back? ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes, that was that's my only thing is I wish there was more time with Tom once he comes back. So he comes she says no, he's gone. Caroline Bingley drops in on her she runs into I can't remember but basically takes the time to be like I've heard she has slight. Well, it was a self serving redemption moment but she does like she basically is like did he propose to you Mr. Ryder because he's she's been trying to marry Mr. Ryder. Caitlin Stryker: Has her redemption moment. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Courtney Richter: And she's like, why should I tell you? That's not a proper question. She's like, he said that you refused him something and said, and finally she like loses it. And she's like, yes, I rejected him. I never want to marry him. I don't care about his money. I've only ever loved Mr Hayward. He's it for me and that's it. Bam, mic drop, Mary moment. And she leaves totally. Like it's her huge moment. She finally tells off Caroline. She said she doesn't want Ryder cause she... Mary Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Totally actually. It is an awesome mic drop Mary moment. It's her big moment. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Caroline is like, this is what your family does. This is what Elizabeth did. She pretended she didn't want Darcy and then she did. And Mary's like, no, she just didn't know that she loved him. And then she loved, again, you see, you think that, but that's not what happened. You just keep thinking the worst in people, which is your like horrible trait, Caroline Bingsley. ⁓ But anyways, and again, this, and to be fair for Caroline, it is that like she threw herself at Mr Darcy. She has worked hard for Mr. Ryder. for, she's... Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: this by all means she's this like gorgeous, well put together, well made woman that can't figure out what's going wrong because she's doing all the things you're supposed to do showing all the interest and yet these men are going for Bennet's like it doesn't make sense to her. And she's just like reacting and hurting people around her because she doesn't understand how she's in this position basically. And having to be a runner up and so she puts down others so she can feel better without realizing it's actually her Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, yes. Courtney Richter: lovely personality that is the issue and not the way she looks. But that's another book. Maybe there's a redemption one. Apparently she marries Mr. Ryder. That's where we end up. So that's what happened to Caroline Bingham. Well, they claim they're married. They say their husband and wife. No, she never really gets what she wants. Like she doesn't get her redemption. She's kind of, mean, she is, she's still off and living with him, but we know it's not the life she wanted necessarily. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No. Well, they don't get married. She goes off and she basically they claim I don't think they've Yeah, but No. No. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: She has to settle. love, Caroline never gets a redemption. I remember hearing that even with Unleashing Mr Darcy, the author of it, there's like, ⁓ I had this idea once of like this whole redemption arc for, ⁓ I can't remember who, Felicity was the character's name. And even Hallmark was like, no, she doesn't get the redemption. She's just the villain. She's gone. For that, does not get to find love after that. She's done. Caitlin Stryker: Ha ha ha ha. The villain is the Courtney Richter: It was like, okay, we forever in both worlds. Carolyn Bingsley just does not get her redemption. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. It but ⁓ No, no, but she is she is like settled off the island basically and no longer a problem for Courtney Richter: Yes, she's away. She's No longer Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. It was like the final step, which is cool. It was like the final step of Mary's like self-actualization, right? And now she has gone on her full journey and like become her full independent self. And then she still has to, you know, sort of languish for a little longer because Tom left planet Earth. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. he's nowhere, no one knows. Her aunt tried to find him ⁓ his mother doesn't know where he went, just that he went somewhere, but he'll come to London eventually. They all say, he will come back, he has to. ⁓ she's just got to stop waiting and then he shows up. And he's also like lost weight and looks pale, like similar. Like she has also lost some of her light and the glow she had while she was with Tom at the lake. That even her mother when she visited was like, ⁓ you are blooming. You do look different. You do look happier. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Courtney Richter: Side note, her mom was there while Ryder was trying to claim her and her mom was just so excited, like, ⁓ my gosh, this man wants you, he's gonna marry you, you're not alone, this is okay. And when she says no, her mom is basically like, I'm done, you're not my daughter. I wash my hands of you. I did everything I could. She's not even shaking, she's like, I'm just done. This is it, this is it. You are ridiculous. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. So excited. Yeah, sure. it's amazing that Mrs Bennet didn't just drop dead in that moment, you know like Courtney Richter: Like she worked ⁓ from moment she got... Even though Mary was fine and that Ryder was already into Mary and would have proposed either way. She just like hammered it home and like thought this was all her doing and how could you want anything more than this? But I understand based on the time that that's exactly what this looked like. And I love that the aunt said to her like you aren't- you don't love him. I know you love Mr Hayward, but just know like if you turn this down, there's no guarantee that. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Courtney Richter: I think he likes you, but there's no guarantee he's actually going to act on it or that he does feel this way about you. So you may be like, you know, killing two birds with one stone. Yeah, that's a risk you're taking. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, two birds with one stone like a bird in hand is better than in the bush. You know, like this is when you've actually got, which that is a real, a real kind of like pickle and dilemma in life in general. And I also I, I also love the the I was just remembering it, the quote, what our happiness depends on ourselves, like the Arist- ⁓ Aristotle quote that comes up in this book. That really kind of Courtney Richter: Yeah. Taking the sure thing. Always. Mm-hmm Caitlin Stryker: is becomes kind of the thing that Mary is like always trying to figure out, right? ⁓ How to really achieve that and really have that, ⁓ which is part of her journey and and where she winds up in the end. And is what is so fun about this read, because as the reader, I even found myself being like thinking philosophically about my own life, you know? Which is really cool. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: 'Cause you don't you know that's what a great book does, is it it you know, and and and this is a romance, it's a happy ending, and we know what we're gonna get. But it still takes you on this great ride and you still wind up having some real deep thoughts about your own life and human existence and you know, like the whole time you're reading it, which is really, really cool. And that's the the joy of this book. You're not Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes, I love triangle. Yes. Because of what it is you're not like, when do we get to the spice? When do we, know, that feeling of the slow burn is the traditional slow burn that you're just along for the ride. And you know, it's going to end in a happy place, but it's such- It was so fun I can't, I don't know how to describe it, but diving into this world again and done so well and just, but a new version of this world. Cause I've read all of Jane Austen. I know them all now. There's no like surprises. So getting to see a new perspective in the Jane Austen world. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: is a gift because it's not Jane Austen obviously because she's long gone. But it's a very close version. Like she really did a great job. Yeah, she really did. It's not like a knockoff or someone you know, stepping out of their lane like this. I feel like she was meant to like tell this side of the story because she does it so well. And I can't wait to watch this. I cannot wait. We will do a review of the series after because of talking of it here. We'll talk about it after. But I've heard Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. It feels like you're reading Dane Austen. She did a great job. Yeah. I'm so excited to watch it. Yes. Courtney Richter: from Catherine Center and others amazing things about this show. So I cannot wait. Yes, which is hard to do. Caitlin Stryker: And that it might be better than the book, which is like a mass having read it now too, ⁓ that's so hard to do. And now having read it, that's a big statement. I mean, 'cause ⁓ yeah, right. Well let's get to the end. Courtney Richter: Yes, that's huge. ⁓ we did step over, sorry. Tom actually, The big, The big. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ He comes back. Courtney Richter: But basically he does but it is a very small like it's so short this part. He's looking awful because he's loved Mary and missed her every day and he instantly is like my Mary I've missed you he's just openly confessing but she's like pause I'm going to say this I know this isn't like what we normally do but I need to confess these feelings that I've been holding on to for months that he's been ghosting her and didn't get to say because he disappeared. And she just lays it Caitlin Stryker: It's so short. Yeah. Courtney Richter: all out there. She tells him how she felt from the beginning and how she didn't care about Ryder. And like what he did and how it affected her. And how much she loves him and that she does love him. And what's been left and he instantly is like, I love you too. Let's get married right away. And then and like they hug and they're just together and he kisses her and then he talks about and tells her why he disappeared, which is basically just his own self confidence and feeling like Ryder is better for her and didn't quite know how to act on it. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ And he realized I guess like Ryder told him he was gonna have all this money. So Ryder was gonna have more money than him. So b- ⁓ Courtney Richter: Ryder crashes the lake and then ⁓ like two days in is Tom, can we stay up and have drinks together? And Mary kind of watches them a little bit and disappears. ⁓ I thought in that conversation he was going to tell Tom that he was making ⁓ a play for Mary, that was planning to claim her. I thought that was going be part of the conversation, not just that he's inheriting Catherine de Bourgh's money. So I was surprised that that wasn't there at all. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I was with you. That's what I thought too. Like I Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I Courtney Richter: I guess it was so obvious with their actions based on the rules of the etiquette that he was into her that it didn't need to be said. I don't know what that line is, but Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. Maybe Ryder and telling him I've got all this money now and like and and I guess Tom helped him like, you know, broker the final deal on it. But was that Ryder's way of making the claim because money was so important at that time? You know. But he he was already not working, but this was Courtney Richter: Yes. But writer already had money he was already not working. This is like an insane amount but he was already that like before that moment everyone was still saying he's well off he could take care of you like it was still now he's like insane money. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Now he's like Darcy level money again. Yeah. And I think that Courtney Richter: Yeah, but I guess Tom felt closer, like more equal to him before that happened. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Again though, know, it's like you said, this was the the men having a conversation in the back brokering like the deal and what it was gonna be. ⁓ How it gonna go for Mary. And that's what's really fun about this book is Mary's like, ⁓ no. I'm gonna decide how it's gonna go for me, even if it means I'm on my own forever. You know? ⁓ Courtney Richter: Literally back procuring the deal. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Which is really cool. And then and then that is where you you are left like feeling very empowered. And even the end where they are like telling each other and she's like, No, I'm gonna say my peace and you can say your peace and the whole all the story gets out and then, you know, they kiss again and then they truly are like happily ever after. And it's so wonderful. And you're like, Whoo, that was close Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah, it really, could have, it could have gone that way. It could have like, it would have been devastating had they not ended up together. I would have loved a bit more time of them together. ⁓ But yeah, like where, where's, we bring that modern... ⁓ into it just so we can see them together a little bit? Maybe the show does maybe get a little bit more, but Pride and Prejudice was that too. I mean, they get together, which is what was so fun about this actually getting another window into Caitlin Stryker: Same. I was like, where's my epilogue of like their happiness time? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. I know it's Courtney Richter: Elizabeth and Mr Darcy and getting to see them together. That was actually really nice. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, because you do get to see them together and with their baby and like that whole thing and it's like ooh, they are so happy of Courtney Richter: spice meter, it's definitely a one pumpkin. They literally kiss. ⁓ There's not even like a flash of leg or calf like it's literally a one pumpkin half a pumpkin in terms of spice. But it is such an enjoyable love story. And yes. When you want to read... If you want to read like a romance? Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. It's a one pumpkin. No. Yeah. But in it's such an enjoy and you get all the good yearning, all the good old fashioned yearning that we don't get anymore 'cause we are so spicy. Courtney Richter: But you want to also feel kind of you know when you want like a brag book or book that you want to feel like cool having on the bus or in public. That's this one. This is one you can kind of brag about reading because you can talk about it and a lot of people would have read it yet. But it also gives you that little joy and spice. So this is a brag romance to read, I think. Caitlin Stryker: Yes Ooh Yeah. That's yeah. It's a brag romance. You're it's you're like, ⁓ check out my intellect, you know? ⁓ Courtney Richter: would have it would have taken me longer to catch it had Catherine Center not caught it and brought it to us so early actually at my store for Indigo like Heather just made it a Heather's pick to like it's gonna everyone's going to be reading this now we were early on reading it only be well less early than other people's been out for a few years but it's coming back around now because thanks to the show everyone's aware of it existing which is so exciting and I'm so happy to see this author getting her flowers because she deserves it 100 % Caitlin Stryker: There you go. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. She really deserves it. She really deserves it. Yeah. So do yourselves a favor, pick up The Other Bennet Sister when you want something. ⁓ Yeah, like we said, like you want to feel like you're reading a classic and just dive back into that. Yeah. A new classic. A new ⁓ all right. Well, that's it for today's episode of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Keep reading. Stay cozy. We'll be back soon. Bye. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah, but new. A new classic. Bye!