Latest / Pod Therapy / #396: Imagining Spouses' Death, Sex Books, Disappointed in Mom

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#396: Imagining Spouses' Death, Sex Books, Disappointed in Mom · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. For the record, Nick is sitting in a dim
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: corner of the room, Whitney, and I can still see
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the lines from over here.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Peter's like me, his his smile line down here like
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: the eye lines.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm Jim Jobin from Fabulous Las Vegas. No matter.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: This is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: You can submit your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: or email us at pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: And now broadcastings from the Churn. And that's Jacob, that's Whitney.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: I'm neck designed for some pod therapy. I'd not like
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: being introduced. I don't like the feel of it. Yeah,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: that come with the PhD.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I gotta say, I came across something on Instagram about
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half ago about a certain Jacob Smith.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: This Jacob Jacob.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: This is such a weird tone of voice for Nick
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to be used. I came across podcast as a cast
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and talking a little bit about pod therapy.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I assume it was never actually mentioned
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: in the clip that was posted.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: All right, pot therapy, but plug I gave pot therapy
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and ice cream social both both the plugs on the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: podcast there. That was very nice. Thank you for doing that. Well,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I I only heard.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: That clip, so I guess I was going to say,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I'm going to save thing. You should listen to the rest.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Doble, is it this one?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. That's the one creators. Creator's Cafe is
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the name of it. If you want to go, give
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it a listen. It's her first episode of her second season.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: It's a cool show. I've listened to it before. It
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: is just it's Jessica Payne, who is a multi at
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: entertainment person, taught at like AMDA in places like that
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. She's been a working entertainer in Los
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Angeles for years and years. We know it from San Francisco. Uh,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you know, her and her husband are just toured a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: force of a power couple when it comes to entertainment.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And she runs this podcast called Creator's Cafe where she
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: just talks to all of these very interesting people who
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: work in entertainment and apparently mea you said, first episode
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: of what of our second season of what Well.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: She does seasons on her show, so other podcasts do
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: seasons as well.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm finally podcasting seasons. You know what she does
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: between the seasons, She takes a break. Oh wowson breaks.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's an important part of having a season.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: If you're gonna have a season, have a season break.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: We'll post Okay, after this season, we'll take one week off. Okay,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: not a full week. Yeah, eight days. We're going to
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: record a double before exactly a bank show in Yah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: We have an email here we are planning husband's death.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So I think this is a really upbeat when I
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: have not pre read this, but I believe this is
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a very upbeat email that we're all going to have
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: a really good time with.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: But I did learn that Jim creates the titles for these,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: so that's quite possible.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: That we don't know. It could be anything.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just have Jim. The title means nothing can't wait,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: let's see. So hello team. Firstly, this is a good podcast,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and thank you for doing it. I think we got
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a letter meant for another podcast. That's a that's a
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm reading you ahead here. This is a
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: car issue. This is this is a letter for car talk.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: We're very answer Jim's son can answer answer anything you
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: want about cars anyway. So I'm here to ask why
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I I'm really efficient at planning the painful flow chart
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of decisions i'd have to make if I discovered my
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: husband was dead in that moment. I don't mean post more. Sorry,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I don't mean post murder details. I just want to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: get that out of the way. I actually really like
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: my husband. He's a very he's a very good bean,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to murder him at all. Good.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: That's good.
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  Speaker 1: It's weird that you brought that up. None of us asked.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I was wondering though no one.
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  Speaker 1: No one said, huh, do you want to murder your husband?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Thinking that, I'm just saying you're pretty defensive writer.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying you're pretty That's all I'm saying the room.
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  Speaker 1: I have a tendency to get what feels nearly obsessive
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: about going through steps that I would need to take
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  Speaker 1: if I found out my husband was dead. Sometimes it's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: about when he's traveling and I would receive that phone call,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: while other times it's about when I touch him in
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  Speaker 1: bed and he'd be cold. I go into painful details
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: of what would immediately follow, like calling nine to one one,
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  Speaker 1: calling my mom and the final moments which I'd hold
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: him one last time before he is taken away forever.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I told you this wouldn't be a nup beat email.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I tackle details about how I would eventually have to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: come back into our home, and how it would seem
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: so quiet and lifeless. I would have to go through
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: his stuff and decide what to keep. His family gets
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and I donate. I play through trying to move on
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: while everything we own feel so deeply wrapped up in
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: both of us. I imagine trying to accept people's kindness
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and concern while feeling absolutely hollow and dead inside. How
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: some days would probably just consist of waiting for the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: next day, so I'd be one day further out and
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: one day closer to being okay. This spiral happens at bedtime,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: when I'm more alone in my head. Sometimes the idea
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: just rudely shows up without a fucking infight. I try
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to breathe and think of anything else, but it inexplicably
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: gets away from me typing this out. I know it
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: seems fucking ridiculous, but I can't shift my thoughts once
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I'm spiraling. I try breathing things, and temperature slash environment
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: changes like sticking my head in the freezer, splashing cold water,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: but often those don't work. Thinking about it with a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: clear head, I wonder if those techniques seemingly don't work
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: because I am so activated and it feels like every
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: fiber of my being believes it is happening. Spiraling in
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: this way often ends with me weeping and barely catching
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: my breath. I usually end up looking at a screen
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: with the hopes of distracting myself. I try not to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: look at screens in bed, but I'd rather take in
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that sweet blue light, cooking my clumsy Panda videos instead, sorry,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: looking at clumsy panda videos instead of continuing to cry
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: on my kitchen floor. That's fair. I'm not sure if
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it's worth noting, but I am recently diagnosed with ADHD
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: and my oh vance five aance has probably worn off
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: by bedtime. We're gonna ask what that means in a second.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe ADHD makes my brain speed run dead husband scenarios.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I am tired of this. It
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: feels so genuinely heartbreaking, frustrating, and exhausting. I just want
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  Speaker 1: to sleep, not just hope to eventually tucker myself out
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and or distract myself with silly little memes. Okay, that's
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a bit of a long one. Sorry. Thanks for sharing
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: your experiences and insight with the world. Infinite thanks, pugs
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and kisses. Too busy planning my husband's funeral to come
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: up with a clever name? PS, congratulations Nick on the engagement.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Off the PS, please take turns share in an exciting
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: announcement that everyone knows about except for Jim. Excellent, excellent idea.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: That is too busy planning my husband's funeral to come
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: up with clever name?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a great ideo.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: That is the only name that we will address you as.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: By the way, too busy planning my husban's funeral to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: come up with a clever name?
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Too busy is your first name. We're gonna shore that immediately.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: So I do like the looking up clumsy panda videos
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: because my go to is beagle puppies. Yeah, if I
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: need to get distracted and.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Something to do yourself a favorite mister tangement basset hound puppies.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wow, that's good life.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a solid life coaching advice right there. Ever,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: given this.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: One's tough because when you hit the spiraling stage, it's
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: like it feels out of control, and I actually love
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: that too. Busy tried some other things that you know
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  Speaker 2: we've mentioned full name. I refuse, like putting your head
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: in the freezer, kind of those things that might shock
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: our nervous system out of that spiraling. But it seems
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: like it is not helping. Ignoring or avoiding some things
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: with anxiety doesn't really help either, because the way I
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: describe it to clients is like you're pushing away something.
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  Speaker 2: It's like when you tell your teenager like don't do this,
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  Speaker 2: don't do this, or don't think about this. All you're
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: going to do is think about it or want to
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  Speaker 2: do it. So I think when we have reached that
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  Speaker 2: point where it's like, well, yeah, pushing it away isn't
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  Speaker 2: going to help. That just makes me think about it
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  Speaker 2: more and lead to the spiraling.
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  Speaker 1: Also, I do this to some degree. I think I
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: bet we all do.
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  Speaker 2: Oh certainly, yeah, I think about that weird Okay.
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  Speaker 1: And like not just my spouse either, like different people
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  Speaker 1: like I'll go through scenarios as well. I'll be honest.
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  Speaker 2: That has never crossed from what is wrong with you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I was I was really just saying the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: spiraling part though, like because I will, I will latch
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: onto something and really just dog with a bone, not
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: let it go, and I'll just I'll sit on it
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: and and really just go over and over it. And
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: like that frustration of also sitting with it adds to
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  Speaker 1: the spiral. The frustration of not being able to snap
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: yourself out of it adds to the spiral. Like all
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: of these things are just piling onto it, and it
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  Speaker 1: really is like frustrating. It's like you have to you
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  Speaker 1: have to kick yourself out of that thing somehow. And
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: it sounds like the too busy is having a hard
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  Speaker 1: time with it.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny because Laura will kind of do
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: this every once in a while and it doesn't help that.
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  Speaker 3: I kind of have this little game that I like
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  Speaker 3: to play, like we just we rehearse emergency situations. It's
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: like so like we'll be laying on the sofa and
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: then I'll just like fall on top of her. I'm like, okay,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I'm passed out, houses on fire, get me out of here.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: She's just I'm just laying there, just dead weight, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: then she just can't move. She did not move it all.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I would light something on fire and drop it on
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  Speaker 1: you get yourself out of the fucking house.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I love this game. I'm gonna play it with Peter
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: and oh do it? Do it next time you're camera.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're just laying on the sofa or whatever,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: just literally just fall on top and just dead weight.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: You got to get me out of here. Go what.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Pressure's on? No, the imagining. I get weird thoughts like
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: that too, not to the extent that Too Busy mentioned,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: but but like, oh what if uh yeah, like Peter's
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: in a car wreck on it, Like if he doesn't
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: come home on time. Sometimes that's the thing. If he's
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: like not like he's like, hey, I'm on my way home.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I know about how long it takes, and you know,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: if he stops anywhere along the way, I'm like, what happened?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You know? And I go through a little bit of that, like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, what would I do? What would I feel?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: What would I think if like I got a phone
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: call and you know, something happened to him? And I
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: mean my go to I don't feel like Too Busy
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: is gonna like this my go to typically for scenarios
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: like that kind of artists it with it because my
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: opinion is that the pushing it away is what leads
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: to the spiral. Oh and this is just you know,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: something to try and think about. You know, if you're
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: trying to push away, trying to push it away and
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: then you start spiraling, maybe before you hit the spiral.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Like for example, Petersley coming home one night, it's like,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: all right, well, what if something happened to him? Or like, yeah,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: maybe something did, because the reality is everyone will die,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: all of us in this room. Someone's going to die
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: before the other person. Like it is an actual, like
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: percentage chance that that that something could happen to like
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: our partner or whatever.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: I really like that idea because I think, like when
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: first of all, I think this is very normal. Yeah,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: it doesn't happen.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: To me, but normal apparently for you next the word here.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: But I think it's it's very normal because like that
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: is one of our biggest fears, right, having to go
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: through something like that. It's terrible and it's very scary
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: to think about. And so I think it's normal that
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: your brain wants to like prepare, Hey, let's ask this question,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: you know, because it's scary me and I kind of
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: want to prepare for it. And I think I think
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: you're right. I think you're onto something in the sense
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: that like the more you try to push it away,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: the more that you're kind of training yourself to believe
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: that it's it needs to be pushed away, Like this
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: is really scary. We got to push this out of here,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: and so you're only reinforcing the fear of it as
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: opposed to just kind of being able to sit in
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: it and just you know, just like realize, Yeah, that's
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: gonna suck. That's gonna be absolutely terrible. It's horrible, and
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to find a way to get through it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And it's something we can't control. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't help.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I was gonna ask that to The control factor really
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: stick out to me.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I'd wonder if if too busy kind of does this
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: about other things that they can't they don't have control
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: over to.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I would wonder the same, what's the funeral plans would
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: you come up with? This is what I want to
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: ask just Viking funerals, Travis.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: But there was too much bacteria.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: We're adding to the bacteria at this point, those bacteria plus.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: The shore keeps moving further away at some point it's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: just too much work. It's gonna be a harder and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: harder shot with that flame arrow.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that is just the worst feeling. It makes
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: me so sad and depressed, Like thinking about that for
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: a parent, and even that it's weird watching like your
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: parents' age and you know, knowing they may only have
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: statistically like ten years left or something. That's a weird
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: thought for me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna have
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to deal with that someday, and it's horrible to think about.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But I you know, when we talk about kind of
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: OCD or that obsessive thought process, one of the go
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to treatments is to find a way to sit in
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: that and not push it away and not try and suppress.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: But kind of if you to write it out, like
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: write the scenario out.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I know this is a loaded question, but would you
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: suggest that, would you suggest that too busy kind of
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: work on this on their own or do you think
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: this is like something that I mean, we always advocate
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: calling a therapist and doing all that kind of stuff.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: You know, that's the drinking game, but like, does this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: this feels like a bigger a bigger ask for like
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: a friend or a colleague or something like that to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: kind of talk you through. This feels like one where
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I'd really want that therapist just to be there to
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: listen if nothing else.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I obviously like between well, yeah, going to talk
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to a therapist for sure. Something I did think about,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: on track with what you're saying, Jacob, is if you're
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: already seeing like a psychiatrist for your viobe ance. Oh yeah,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: we didn't come back to that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Jacob. I believe what how I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was going to come back to it was to ask
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: what's that? Oh? I believe that was my comeback to that. Well,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: it is a medication, yeah, okay, there you go. And
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: it's a medication for ADHD.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Correct A non stimulant, right, yeah, it's non stimulant. So
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: people kind of go to that if they don't want
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: like an anthetomy. That's exactly like rillin or adderall that's
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone listening? So, uh, okay, great,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: we accept it. Great love that love that accepted it,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: accepted truth.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: But what I was gonna say, if you're already seeing
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: somebody for medications, there can be some medications that help
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: with some of the spiraling thoughts, those OCD type symptoms.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: So I would just say ask a professional about that,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: that might be helpful. But I always advocate for therapy
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: before medication. So that's where what Jacob's saying I agree with,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: like maybe talking to someone even just briefly, especially someone
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I would say, who specializes in any type of OCD behaviors,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: because that's where this is teetering into. I would look
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: for like someone who works with clients in that department,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and that could be really helpful.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Now, I think with the.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Kind of the the techniques that you've tried, I would
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: refer to those as grounding techniques because that's kind of
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: what they're meant to do. They're meant to kind of
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: shock you out of this intrusive thought and kind of
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: bring you back into experiencing something in the here and now.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: And maybe those aren't really working for you, but anything
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: that you can do that's going to get your mind
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: like it kind of forces your mind to do something
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: like So for me, if I need to distract myself,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I'm probably gonna play guitar because that's not something that
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I'm skilled enough to be able to do while thinking
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: about something else, like it takes my focuses, like I
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: have to like put my focus.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Into that, watch TV in French.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Yes that no, believe it or not. I can focus
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: on everything else but that, unfortunately. But yeah, I like
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: finding those things like that where it takes a lot
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: of focus, that takes you physically doing something and it
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: makes you concentrate. You can try that as well.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Great, Well, there you go. I hope that was helpful.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I hope it was h Yeah, I talked talked to them,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the meds, talk about getting yourself a therapist
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: if you're not already talking to a therapist. But yeah,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I like the idea of talking through this a lot.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Any other big announcements that we have since Gym's not here,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that we should talk Oh, oh man, I'll think I'll
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: think that plan my wedding. Yeah, the three of us, we.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Did it all last week.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: You were I got I got a nice present from
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: my mom. I think I got good mom points. Recently,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take her to see I'm flying her out
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to Vegas and take her to see Paul McCartney, oh
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: in October, because she's a big Beatles fan from from
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: my back when she's a fifties kid.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good those Yeah, No.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think it was good. Points called her up. She
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: didn't know where the tickets are yet either, because they're
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: they're pretty good tickets.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: In the in the arena, you're going to see Paul McCartney,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: but I'm not gonna tell you where you're gonna.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: See in Vegas.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Right at dinner and be root, We're gonna take a
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: big break and when we come back, we are going
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to discuss sex books. That's right, you're listening to pod therapy.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Scheiner, Leiah,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Richard Macy Sonny Boy, Thunder, Cougar, Falcon, Scoop the Slipper,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: k Motherfucker, Sandra mcwoffle Elena gabriel A Done, Adam Warren
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: and he Gay do Crimes And if you'd like to
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: sponsor the show, become a therap producer Patreon dot com,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: slash therapy. All right, we're gonna pick up where we
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: left off last week. I know, Whitney, you were listening
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: to the show, so you know what the topic is.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Were you really movie people and jobs?
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, shit, I'd forgotten about it and I
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: was trying to figure out what it was. You can
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: have all of Jim's points.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Since he's not here, I'll continue on.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, all right, Whitney, Yes, which actress worked at a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Baskin Robin's ice cream shop and got fired for spraying
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: whipped cream?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Uh in her hat? Okay?
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Sandra Bullock, Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, or Madonna.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I would like to empathize for just a moment with
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: all of our listeners that were really on the edge
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of their seats before Nick said the word hat.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I was definitely I was like.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Cream in her I.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Was in her scroll scroll hat. You know how to
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: give the suspense. Okay, we had Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, Madonna,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and Sandra Bullock. Sandra Bullock, I'm gonna guess Sandra Bullet.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Oh that's it. No, I was gonna guess. Uh see,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: it could be Julia Roberts. Who else? It was? Madonna,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, I'll say, I'll say Jennifer Gardner. Sure, No,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: it was Madonna.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: That was the bottom of my list. See that would
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: have been the first of my list. All right, here
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: we go, Jacob This singer used to dress up as
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Elmo for children's birthday parties. Interesting, is it? Ed Sharon
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Bruno Mars justin Timberlake or Harry Styles.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: That fields very Ed Sharon. I was, Ed Sharon, No,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you have to dress up that much heady kind of
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: looks like Elmos. Oh my god, I saw baby, Ed Shearon?
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: What where was or a baby that looks like a.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Baby that looks like Ed Sharon? Okay, but not stole.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: If you're thinking Ed Sharon, but a baby like a baby,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Ed Saron, You're wrong.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: It just looks like an adult adult Ed Sharon. Baby
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: was this baby playing guitar in an arena filled with people?
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: And god, I didn't answer the name Ed. Yeah, I'm
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: trying to remember where we were, but we were walking.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: It was Laura and I were walking her some place. Yeah,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: and I were a fraternity physically pointed. I pointed to
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: the baby and it was like that baby looks like.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: In real life.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, it was like this last weekend. No, I can't
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: didn't take.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: A picture of this random woman.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Pay know that Nick always compares all baby.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: A good point. I should have thought it was.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: On a side note, did you see the baby thing
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: at the Aces game. So they had like during the
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Aces game at halftime, they had a baby race, and
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: so they lined up all the babies and they had
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: to crawl. The moms were on the other side, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: they had to crawl. One baby got halfway stood up
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: and just started walking.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Took their first up.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, game, Yeah, it's pretty solid.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like the pressures on. I got this mom, like, okay,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: justin Timberly carry Styles and who is the last? I
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: think Harry Styles.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Bruno Mars All right, last last? Here we go? Uh
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: it's ear turn. Yeah, okay.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Which talk show host was a vacuum cleaner salesman early
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: in life? Ellen DeGeneres, Oprah Winfrey, Jimmy Fallon or James Cordon.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say Phil Donahue. Phil Donahue would have
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: been a good one.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: James Cordon No.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: All degenerous? Correct, Yes, okay, last one, Jacob Here we go.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: This award winning actor he used to sell refrigerators door
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: to door. Anthony Hopkins, Sean Connery, Morgan Freeman or Tom Hanks.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Anthony Hopkins, No.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You don't know, Morgan Freeman.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: No point for Nick Sean Connery, I'm books on sex.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I have a family member who is in the sex
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: offender registered sex offender group therapy, and he showed me
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: one of the books they are forcing him to read
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and to quote unquote learn from. It's a book from
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the early nineteen seventies and is saying that all sex
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: before marriage is a mortal sin and give several examples
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of people who had their lives completely ruined by indulging
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: in car Arnold Desires books. Oh my relatives, tell tell
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: tells me that this is the timber of all the
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: extra reading books the therapist running the group has. However,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the therapist is running a secular group and he just
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: can't seem to find secular books for healthy sexuality that
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: would be suitable for sex offender group therapy. Are there
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: any books that you all recommend or maybe just have?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Whitney Wright one know only her therapeutic past working with Jso's.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Okay, so this question is definitely for Whitney.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have some thoughts your wheelhouse. Oh oh, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: was like, did you have? Okay, I just have to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: tell a quick funny story about writing a book with
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Gso's one of my professors in college. I had like
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: an email catch up with him when I was working
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: at that Foster Carriage and see the gsays, and I
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: told him about how we would go like camping out
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in Utah like with them because the owner of the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: company had land, and they would like, yeah, I guess,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: ask uh, ask anyone who worked if they, like as
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: case manager's therapist whoever, if they wanted to go out
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and be like chaperones or supervisors whatever for these trips
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: because they're all juveniles, and yeah, so I love to camp.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, go out there, you have
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: your own tent, all of that. But that's a little rugular.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Again, nobody asked it's weird that you had awfully defensive there.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I don't want to murder my husband. I don't know
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: why you asked me. What do you think that asked it?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So my professor was like he was only like he
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: was like thirty when he was our professor in college,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: so he's only ten years older than us or whatever.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: He was like, Oh, you should write a book called
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Camping with Sex Offenders. I've just thought about that ever since.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I totally I bet it fly off the shelves.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Come get it.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, late at night.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: No, is that a thing in the I mean, I've
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: not heard of this, that the books are have a
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: religious undertone.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. It wasn't around in the seventies.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I mean I don't think any of us.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: No.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Also true, like you have this beard, you wouldn't even
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: looked over you.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: But the books that you used in that program, well
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: they certainly weren't from the seventies.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: No.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I did a little research on this, and I actually
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: reached out to because I was actually was assuming this
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: is an adult in a group.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even though so okay, So I was like, well,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know what's available for adults, because
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: we have treatment workbooks for kids, like there's two separate
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: treatment books, ones for young kids like under the age
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: of twelve, because believe it or not, they also get
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: arrested and get put on probation for sexually acting out.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And then there's another book workbook that we work through
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: with them for more like teens or through the age
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: of like twenty one.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Is the law enforcement aspect when it comes to dealing
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: with very young sex offenders like that, is it getting
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: out of hand or is it Do you feel like
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: it's an appropriate response the kind of the issue that's
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: going on, or is it too little? This is gotcha
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: journalism that you've learned to expect. Spot there. I know
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: it's like I'm sitting over your sweating, like, oh, I'm
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: claud he's not asking a questions.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: My actual, my true thoughts on this are and I
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: didn't work with a lot of the really young okay js.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I worked with mainly teens, late teens. The youngest kid
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I worked with was twelve, okay, so and there were
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: like two of them maybe, but they had a different
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: home where kids were like nine, ten, eleven. And I
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: my opinion on that, even the ones that I worked
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: with who were like twelve, is that some of their
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: offenses were like it seems like a lot, a lot
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: a big repercussion. Yeah, like a large repercussion for their
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: acting out.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Now, that's what it feels like to me. And totally,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know nothing about it, right, I.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Would say the reason the only thing that makes it
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: not too harsh is that there's not really another option,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: because the reason they're typically in a group home is
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: because they can't be at home. Usually there's a victim
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: in the home, gotcha. And that's not fair too, the
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: kid who had something done to them obviously the victim.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: So it's obviously not a perfect system.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, that's it just as hard because they're kids too.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: They're they're nine year olds, they're ten year olds, and
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh wow, you're pulled out of your home also, And.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's tragic all around. It is.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And they've like usually been sexually abused themselves. It's like
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: it's just sucks. But yeah, it does feel harsh on them.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But there isn't really another option. So yeah, that's a
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: good question. But I reached out to a friend of
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: mine who actually.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Get some hard hitten questions for you.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Later, start sweating out, what is Laura's middle name?
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Oh ship, Oh god, damn it. I just bought a
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: plane ticket for the other day.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Fuck what was it his birthday?
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: No? What is travel or not? She doesn't have one. Actually,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: here's the thing. God, Okay, I offered one year for
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: her birthday. I said, I'm going to get you t
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: S a pre check. That's going to be your birthday present.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You should get global injury. No, she did not want it.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: She did not want it why she she's she it was,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: it was it was going to be a lot of
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: it was going to be a lot of it was
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: not a lot of work. She just didn't want to
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: go through the steps to do it. And then also
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: she's very much on the side of like, I'm not
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: giving them any information. Like she's like, no, I got
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: bad notes for she will not she won't do like
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: a DNA test, you know, or like one of those
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: twenty three me things.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'm not giving them my DNA. Well, we
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: we recently said that that's probably a good idea, not
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: giving your DNA information to a private company. Now, in hindsight,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: seems like a fine a fine fear to have.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: By the way, you should get global entry, not tsa
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: pre check, because pre check comes as part of global entry,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and global entry ends up being cheaper because you don't
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: have to renew it, I think every five years. Oh really,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and we're lucky because we can go you have to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: do an interview for global entry. It takes like fifteen minutes,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: but we can do it at the airport here. Oh,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: there are only certain airports where you can where you
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: can do it. I'm going to have to do that
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: next time. Yeah, and then if you take an international flight,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: it's magical.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I feel like. I swear after I
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: got Global Entry, there was never any lines anymore. But
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like, even the normal ones, I'm like, well, I mean,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm still going to go through Global entry,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: but everyone else is just as Oh, I mean, like
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: there's no line there.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I thought you've been at the global entry part. No,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: because there's never a line at the global entry part.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I always walked past the huge line at regular customs
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: coming back in. Actually this time it saved us back
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: into Philadelphia and we were.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Flying through Philadelphia.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we were a little delayed coming into Philadelphia
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: from Lisbon, and uh, it ended up we didn't have
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a check bag, which saved us a lot of time.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to just having the carry on bag
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: saved us several times, including when our flight got delayed
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: going out the Parst time. If we'd had the bag checked,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: we probably would have had to go with the bag. Yeah, ah,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and then we would have been stuck in Newark. And
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: nobody wants to be stuck in Newark.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: No one does.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so coming back we had global entry, we
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: didn't have the check bag, and we raced through everything,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: got to our next flight, got straight on and they
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: closed the door like seven to ten minutes after we
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: sat down. Oh so like we were close coming back
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: in global entry. Okay, we passed the line filled with people,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: did the one scan, and then we were out.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I got a double check and see what mine expires.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: It's been a while, but I don't think it's been
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: five years.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: But it wouldn't do me any good to global entry
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: if Laura doesn't also get it correct.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was like, oh no, no, you're gonna have to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: put your foot down on this one tanment. You're gonna
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: have to be the man in this relationship and put
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: your foot down. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like that. I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: don't like that. I'm trying to challenge you know what.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: You know what Nick? Nick would actually be like, okay,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: by Laura.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And just go through that. I already do that with
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: tsa preache.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: If you do that enough times, yeah, well fuck, I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: not paying for this to have to take my shoes off.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And on the other side, I know where I'm gonna
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: be at.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm thinking of when like either Peter or
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I one of us, only like because sometimes they don't.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it messes up or whatever. Yeah, yeah, that's happened
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: before s jes that has happened to me before s
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: J went through TSA PreCheck and I went through the
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: regular security line. I was like, I guess I'll beat
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: you at the gate.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I was annoyed on this flight. So this was another thing.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: On my flight to Houston, was I checked in flying
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: standby is kind of weird. I normally don't check in
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: on the APP, but I did this time. For some reason.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: That was a mistake because normally just checking at the
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: airport and because I don't get a boarding pass until
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I'm at the gate. So to get my security document,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I typed in my non traveler ID and it was like,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: all right, TSA pre check. Great. So I get my
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: little paper and go up there and scan my ID.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh, you don't have your non traveler number.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it is here on the paper that
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: printed out it says it. She's like, no, but it's
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: not in our system. I was like, bitch, okay no,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: and so she sent me to the regular line. I
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: was pissed. But weirdly, there was some word scanner in
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Vegas airport where I didn't have to take my shoes off.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: The shoes off has gone away.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I haven't been in that line and so long.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: That's recent. That's why. Okay.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh okay, Yeah. I was like, oh,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: this is not terrible.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like I think while I was in Portugal,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I think they changed the policy.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, never forget so any any literature, Okay. Yes.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I reached out to a friend of mine who actually
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: does lead adult sex offender groups in Las Vegas, and
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: was like, hey, what would you do your go to be,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: you know, if you were in this situation. First of all,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: she was like.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: What.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: The question about, Like, oh, they said it all of
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: our Jesus.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Books about oh yeah.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: From the seventies. She's like, no. She sent me a
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: little screenshot talking about how at s right. ATSA, which
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: is the Association for the Treatment and Prevention of Sexual Abuse.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Its origins are back to the early eighties, so anything
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: before that in the seventies is not ATSA approved, And
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that's a big deal. Yeah, so some facts for you,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: but some actual books mentioned. There's a work book called
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Building a Better Life, and that's based on the Good
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Lives model, and that is what a lot of the
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: treatment books I work on or worked on. Oh I
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: am I have one client I'm seeing right now, but
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: we work on a treatment workbook based on the Good
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Lives model. And what that is is trying to take
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: shame that there's writers talking about take shame out of
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: their experience and work on what are reasons you want
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: to be a better person, Like let's work the positive
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: angle here and not like oh, you're such a piece
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: of shit and they're horrible human for doing this to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: someone else, but instead like, okay, you did this thing,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: let's walk through why you did it, how you ended
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: up there, how to prevent it, but also like, look
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: at all these wonderful things you could provide, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: to others instead of right horrible sexual abuse. So other ones,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: other books she's sent so that one's Building a Better Life.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: The author for that one is Pamela Yates and David Prescott.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: It looks like there's also treatment for pornography addiction that's
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: essential tools to recovery. There is also one for partners,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: so if you have a partner who has any history
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: of this type of you know, accusation and you know.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Kind of an alan On type type idea.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, there's a book called Facing Heartbreak and
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: so that Steps to Recovery for Partners of sex addicts.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there were some there. I can also post
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: these some of these in the discord. Yeah, I can
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: post those in there for others to look up. The
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Road to Freedom is another one by Joe Lovinson.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: It is shocking to me that like there's still books
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: out there that are being used or curriculum that still
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: be used. That's that's based around that, Like the based
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: around the the idea of like either complete abstinence or
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: you know, sex before marriage is immortal sin.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: There are places where I grew up that I would
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: be surprised right now if they didn't have those.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too, Like
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: this this has a very deep South. Yeah, small community,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: and maybe that's not where it is, but like, right,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: I definitely recognize that that feeling from from where I
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: grew up, Like, it's probably not all that I would
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I would I wouldn't assumed that it was all that,
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: but I'd be surprised if there weren't programs there right
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: now that we're acting on those same types of pieces
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: of literature. This also speaks to I think the problem
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: we run into a lot with mental health is for
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: some programs or or some disorders or conditions in which
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: they don't have a large group of people, then that
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: means that there's not many people treating it. So you
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: don't have a whole lot of options. Yeah, you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: and so if you're going to like a really a small,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: really small community, it's not so much this way in
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: substance use like it used to be. But back in
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: the day, like everything was twelve step based, like you
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: couldn't do that, and yeah, and so there were there
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: were no other options to go to, you know, and
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: so now we've kind of it obviously advanced beyond that.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: But for you know, you take like the number of
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: people with an alcohol use disorder or substance use disorder
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: compared to you know, the sample of people who have
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: h you know, that are sex offenders or or have
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: committed those acts. That population is much much much smaller, right,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: so the treatment community is going to be much much
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: much smaller.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: It's also got to be a tough field for doctors
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to to want to go into. Yeah, that's got to
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: be a tough field to attract new talent, and you
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: know you're not gonna I'd be surprised if you heard
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it as often in that field, you know, about new
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and exciting breakthroughs and and new and exciting treatment options
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: studying that.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has to be so difficult, Like you have
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: to get people to show up admit honestly what they've done.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: They're thinking like, damn near impossible.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: That's just an uphill battle on every side. Yeah, I mean,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: at least.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: With substance use, it becoming a little bit more okay
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: to talk about. Yeah, you know, and I don't know
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: as if you know, sex offender treatment is ever going
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: to get to that level where it's uh, you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: socially acceptable where somebody can just come out and say
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: yeah as easily as like yeah, I've I have a
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: problem with alcohol, Like you drink alcohol.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Covering methodicts or something.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, I mean it's not uncommon at all
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to hear somebody in a boardroom talk about, you know,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: like I've been alcoholic for twelve years. Yeah, I haven't
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: a drink a drink of alcohol in twelve years. You
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: know that it's a it's a triumphant story. You know.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I would be very surprised to hear that same yeah
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: version of that story from a sex offender. Yeah, like
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't sexually offended on the readgister. Yeah,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I've done it. I haven't sexually offended in twelve years,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: you know, And I feel good about it and it
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: is valid. Yeah, right, Like I recognized this problem, like
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I caused damage. I recognized this problem, and I'm actively
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: trying to address it. But still that's tough, and it's
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: tough for the three of us that sit here at talk.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: It feels very uncomfortable.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: I do have to say, though, one thing that I
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: put my pants on that he a little bit. One
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: thing that did surprise me because I've never I haven't worked,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: I haven't treated j S, O S or anything like that.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: True.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I worked for I for you know, WHENNY
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: and I worked together at the same organization, But that
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: was because they were opening up a substance US treatment program,
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: so I was hired to do that. Now, if I've
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: as a foster parent, I've had a couple of kids,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: foster kids that were Jso's I.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Was surprised, like, oh yeah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Never actually treated it myself. But the thing that was
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: shocking to me that I think a lot of people
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: just don't understand is that treatment actually works. It does,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: like the success rate, Yes, at least for kids.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know anything.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about adults. I can't speak to that.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: But you to be clear, you that's think it doesn't
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: work for adults. You're saying you don't know or I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: mean I'm saying I don't know.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, great, I'll come back to that in a minute
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: to finish.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: But like you know, hearing about like the success rates
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: and the very low recidivism for juveniles who are treated,
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: uh treated for sex offense, like as a substance use
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: treatment provider, I'm jealous of those numbers. Oh yeah, got
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: I wish we could produce outcomes like that. So that's
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: one of the things I think the general public doesn't
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: think of. And when they when they hear I don't
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: know about adult. But again, like with Jso, when they
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: hear that, it's scary, right and then think like oh
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: my god, like this kid's crazy. Yeah, we're never going
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: to be able to treat this kid or we're never
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: going to be around this kid, or you stay away
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: from that kid or whatever. But treatments actually very.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Really good results. Yes, that is so true. With adults.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like the numbers are not as great. And
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I can't really I can't speak specifics, but my understanding
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: is that kill us, yeah, and burn the computer. But yeah, no,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's as great. I don't have numbers
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to back that up, like in front of me, but
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: that's my understanding.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: That just leads to the question that doesn't answer the
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: question why it's not like when is that not as successful?
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: What does that? What does that mean? What does success
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: look like? Not reoffending? Okay?
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and really I guess not getting caught.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But I was wondering if it was, like, yo, is
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: it getting to a point where you where you go like, oh,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: this this patient doesn't seem to.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Are they're different measures where you say something like oh
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: they aren't thinking about it or they're right? Okay, No,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: it's literally just the results based.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: So the question that comes into my mind is are
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: these adults, I mean, obviously they're treated as adults. Were
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: they ever treated as adolescents? As in like, if if
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: someone could get to them and provide them treatment while
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: they're juveniles, could that have been avoided?
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is?
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: It kind of like what you know, because that's like
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: one of the things with YEA with with substance use,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: which is like, what's really important with substance use is
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: the age of onset. Okay, Like, so if you can
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: delay the age of first use of a substance past
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, that person it is
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: a very small likelihood that that person will ever get
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: addicted to substances. The exception to that would be opiates
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: because as prescribed for pain medication stuff like that. But
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: for the most part, if if you have not had
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a drink of alcohol until the age of twenty three,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: it's highly unlikely that you will ever become an alcoholic. Interesting,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: the age of onset is incredibly important and.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Does that because you always hear about people saying like, oh,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you know, my my father was an alcohol like, my
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: mother was an alcohol like, my my grandmother was an alcoholic,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: my grandfather was an alcoholic. Like you hear about people
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: saying that, yeah, and so they just say, you know,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've got this trigger in my head
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that like, if I, if I start drinking, I'm gonna
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull that trigger and then I'm not gonna
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: be able to stop. So is I guess which of
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: those which of those kind of common thoughts bins? So
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: a little bit is that the like is the age
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: of starting the use kind of a bigger indicator than
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: family history or is family history still the big one?
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Or where does that kind of rank? They're both pretty
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: much the same. Okay, So there those are two different things.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: But as far as what's a better predictor, that's a
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: good question, okay, because those are the two things that
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I would if I'm assessing. Those are the two big
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: things that I want to know.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So if I if I came you and said, you know,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I was twenty five before I had my first drink,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: but everyone in my family they're all alcoholics, So what
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: would your concern level for me then be?
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: At that point, I would still be concerned, Okay, because
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: it can still happen. Of course, it can still happen,
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: but you have gone through the most vulnerable time for
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: it to occur.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've passed that. So the way better off you
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: would have been if you started younger, but you're still
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: not out of the woods exactly.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: So if you have the family history and I do
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: not have the family history, and we both didn't drink
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: until we were twenty four, we're not going to have
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: the same likelihood of addictions. You're still going to have
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: a little bit slightly higher chance.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Right. The way that I always described it is, it's
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: like if you were to imagine that you've got a
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: cup and you're filling the cup with water. So the
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: cup represents your biology, filling it with water represents your lifestyle.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: As soon as the cup overflows, that's addiction. Okay, okay.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: So the difference between you and me, if you have
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: a family history and I don't, is the size of
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: cup that we start with.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Ah okay, okay, So you're just going to have a
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: smaller cup than what I have, gotcha, So it's going
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: to overflow first. But either way, if you can delay
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: the age of onset, it's still like less likely.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah that it happened, Alexa, order me a bigger cup
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: for everybody that listens to us on speakers.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think the adult's realm is different than
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: kids for the sexual view stuff. But I like that
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: your person is in group and there. I like that
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you're like reaching out for them and helping them. It
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: sounds like you're a support person for them, And I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: actually really love that. That's, as we just said, hard
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: to do, especially when we're talking about people who have
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: acted out sexually. There's a lot of stigma that comes
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: with it. And anyone who's trying to get help and
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: do better one support.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: So absolutely, And for you writer that that book that
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Whitney mentioned, the kind of support book might be a
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: nice read.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'll post all those in discord if you're
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Are you in discord?
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: We don't know. Oh no, this is an anonymous email.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Join our discord, Join our patreon. Are we supposed to?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: That's right? Join the patreon, patreon dot com slash therapy. Uh.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: With that, you get free access to our entire discord
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: chat where you could talk to the hosts. Not me
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: as often, but if you tag me in something, I'll
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: find it eventually. Yeah. Here, but you can interact with
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: the with the other hosts really plainly and uh yeah,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: And people have all kinds of discussions in there and
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: everything and really help each other. It's a nice little
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: community over there at the old discord Patreon dot com
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: slash therapy. We're gonna take a little break now, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: when we come back, we're gonna talk about having a
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: difficult conversation with mom. You're listening to pod therapy.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Meliah,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: Richard Macy Sonny Boy, under Krueger, Falcon Scoop Slippe, Motherfucker,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: sander By, plaf Elena Gabriella Dome, Adam Warren, and Bige
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: do crimes. If you like sponsorshow become a theraproduce their
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: Patreon dot com slash therapy. It's Whitney before acting, who
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: was a limo driver and go go dancer? Channing Tatum,
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Matthew McConaughey, Patrick Swayze or Gerard Butler.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: A limo driver and go go dancer? Mm hm, I
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: feel like it's not Channing Tatum because he was a dancer.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: But I don't think he was a go go dancer,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: but he was a dancer.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Like I see when you hear go go, I kind
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: of know what that means.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: But picture of the girl in like one little pillar,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: she's like standing on it. But this is a guy,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: so the guy is standing on.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I always think of like the Flamingo or they got.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: I guess, but I think Matthew McConaughey did some ship
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: like that too. I'm gonna say Matthew no shit.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's Channing Tatum.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: No point for neck, Patrick Swayze, Jacob who worked at
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: a funeral home and applied makeup to corpses. Alan Rickman,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Whoopi Goldberg, Tim Burton or Helen A.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Bottom Carter was too obvious?
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I have definitely heard this before, and I don't
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: remember who I heard it about. What are the names again,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Alan Rickman, Whoopi Goldberg? I think Whoopy Goldberg?
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, nice Whitney which actor built cabinets for a
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: living before becoming a film icon.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I know that one without the options? Yep, oh Whitney?
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Do you want? You want options? Mel Gibson, George Clooney,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Harrison Ford or Bruce Willis.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's a or d am I right?
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what well Mel Gibson er, Bruce.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Willis, gibsoner, Bruce Willis, Okay, jem event can I take
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: that he wants to be a millionaire? The fifty to fifty.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Which two do you think it is?
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Can't give you those mel or Bruce, Right, I guess
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Mel Gibson, Harrison Forest.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: It is Harrison Ford. We're actually talking about that last
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: time we.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Played true I didn't get that far? Did say I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: finished the.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: All right, Jacob?
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: This global, global, global pop star once worked at a
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: subway sandwich shop. Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga or.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Pink Huh, I'll say.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Beyonce, no Lady Gaga, no Pink.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: All right? Point for Nick. Hey, I'm kicking great, telling
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: old she disappoints me. Hello friends, and hello Jim Oh.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: We'll tell Jim dyadim ha. I'm a thirty four year
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: old male. He him. My mom is sixty something. My
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: bio dad isn't in the picture. It doesn't matter much
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: for the purposes of this question. As far back as
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I can remember, I felt like an inconvenience to my mom.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: She loves telling me and the rest of the family
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: how proud she is for having raised kids by herself,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: But I honestly think she did a pretty crappy job.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: She never has to this day taken much of an
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: interest in my personal life, and always is too. Preoccupied
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: with her own problems to be bothered to be inquisitive
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: about mine. For instance, I went to college in a
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: scenic mountain town about two hours from where she lived.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Despite many opportunities, she visited a grand total of one
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: time during my four years of college, and during that visit,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend at the time stared me down at dinner
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: and said, your father doesn't give a fuck about your shit.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Could also nice to meet you, pleasure. Did you want
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: the cob salad? My mom said? My mom sat there
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and did nothing while I sobbed in the restaurant. Fast
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: forward ten years and now she and her new husband
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: now own a house in the mountain town where I
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: went to college. I don't know why I own a
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: house is in quotes there. I don't know. The two
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of them go weekly now, which stings given she never
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: visited when her son lived here. This mountain house has
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: come to symbolize a sort of emotional neglect for me.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: My birthday is this week, and we made plans to
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: go out for dinner her, her husband, me and my wife.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: My mom texted me this morning saying, it's going to
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: be so hot this week, so we are going going
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: to the mountain house to escape? Can you do a
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: different day? This hurts so acutely because it feels like
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: such a flat excuse to get out of having dinner
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: with her son. I forgot ac doesn't exist where we live.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: That's true. This is far from the first time does
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: this happened? And it won't be the last that her age.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Is it worth telling her how sick I am of
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: her treating me like an afterthought? Or is it better
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: use of my time to just smile and be resentful? Internally,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I always feel like that's a better use of time. Yeah,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think she has the capacity to change, so
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: it feels like a waste of my time. But I
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: am so exhausted from the content, disappointment, love and not
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: a moose.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, So here are my thoughts on this. So you say,
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: should I tell her how sick I am for treating
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: me as an afterthought? Or use this time to just
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: smile and be resentful? Are those are not your.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Only two options?
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Not?
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: How is it? Yeah?
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, so Jacob's made up his mind that's the only two. Yes,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: here's how the way that I've always advised people on this,
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: and I'm interested to see what you guys have to
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: say about this. To me, I just look at it
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: as matching effort, kind of like how you know my
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: my employer will match my retirement contribution. I just kind
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: of look at it as like, you're going to match.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Most of our listeners don't understand what our retirement contribution
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: is because they're Americans that don't don't have they don't
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: have retirement accounts. Oh yeah, that's true too.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: So I look at this as like you're matching your
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: mother's contribution to the relationship. And so to me, the
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: thing that I like about that is it kind of
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: takes the emotion out of it, and so it's not
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: like you don't have to be resentful. You don't have
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: to hold on to resentment. It's just kind of like, Okay,
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: she's putting in forty five percent, I'll put in forty
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: five percent, and I'm just going to match. And so
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I'm never going to work harder than she is. So
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to brack her down or I'm not
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: gonna work really hard at finding another time in my
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: schedule since this time that we'd agreed upon doesn't work,
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: I'll just say like, yeah, we'll find another time.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And put it. You tell me when it's time for
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: you and then and I'll see if I can make
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: it work. I I think that would be my approaches.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: I would just kind of step back and you know,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: devote my my resources to other things, other people in
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: my life, other hobbies that I enjoy it. Would you
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: call that passive aggressive? No, here's why, Okay, I think
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: it could be. But I think when I think passive aggressive,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: I think like, I'm doing this to.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: You, But isn't that kind of what you're doing?
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: No, it's instead of that, it's I'm doing this for me. Sure,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: So instead of like.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not even saying it's a bad thing because it's
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: passive aggression.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I've passive aggressive.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure it all out.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: But this is a great question because it's kind of
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: the difference between like in actually.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Ask me this stuff all the time, Like, aren't I
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: being like narcissistic if I do whatever? I'm like, No,
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: it is your intention to like do whatever.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: All has to do with what your intention is and
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: how you're dealing with your emotion, Like what is your
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: mindset as you're doing this? Because we get asked the
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: same question a lot of times when we talk about boundaries,
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: like setting boundaries, Well, isn't that manipulation, Well it is.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: If you're setting the boundary with the intent of manipulating
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: their behavior, that that's different. That's not a boundary, right, boundary,
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: A true boundary is I'm doing this to protect myself
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: from you.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: You can do whatever you Yeah.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to change who you are. I'm not
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: trying to change your behavior. I'm doing this for my
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: own good, for my own protection. So it's kind of
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the same way with this, where it's like I'm not
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: gonna step back to try to manipulate you into stepping forward.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to step back because there's no sense
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: in me putting one hundred percent putting in.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Forty five percent. Yeah, yeah, I'll match what you're putting in.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. The one part that
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: I don't love or that I think is not super
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: relatable maybe for some listeners as a part where you're like,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I'm taking the emotion out of it, because what I
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: hear anon a mouse saying is that they have emotion
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: in it, and it's like it's there so I worry
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: that the risk is there that if they start changing
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: those boundaries before addressing the emotional aspect, like if you
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: just jump into that, I think deep down there is
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: like that's just going.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: To be a piss and match at some point. So
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: this works for me because I'm very stoic, yes.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: And say this is such a nick cancer, Like yeah,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: just walk away and say fuck them and never talk
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: to me. And I'm great.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: But see that's the thing is like I don't even
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: say I don't even say fuck them, You just walk away.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I just like just like all right was already implied. Yeah,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I'm just over here. That's like all right, right.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: So first of all, the fact it says a lot
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: about your mom with these stories about the boy. The
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: boyfriend's not the husband, right, these are different.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I interpreted that it was a different.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I was just making sure, like the fact that your
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: mom brings another human it doesn't even have to be
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: your boyfriend a friend to whoever around you and they
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: talk to you that way and they don't immediately interject
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: or come comfort you or whatever, like at that dinner
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: where there's like your dad doesn't give a fuck about you,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Like no boundaries would have needed to be set then,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: but you're very young then it sounds like so I
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: think that, Uh, for me, I would address the emotional
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: side of that because I I think when you dig
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: around and really decide like I don't deserve to be
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: treating you have to like have resolve with the emotional
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: side first, in my opinion, so I don't deserve to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: be treated that way. I don't have to deal with
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: those things. Or maybe people around you saying, oh, that's
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: your mom and you know she's trying or you know
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: whatever bullshit people will tell you to try and get
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: you to behave a certain way or make your mom
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: feel better, and it's like, no, mom hasn't shown up
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: for you in the ways that you wanted her to.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I would probably have a conversation with her. That is
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: just me because for me, I want to sleep at
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: night knowing I did everything I felt like I could.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: And that can be whatever you want it to be.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: If you feel like you've already done what you could,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: listener like, great, then move on to the next step.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: But for me, I'm the type like in my mind,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try this one other conversation.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: You want it settled in your mind, your part.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, I want to not feel like that's a loose
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: end that didn't give resolved. So for me, I'm going
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: to do it, and I'm not tinging on the reaction.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: It's just all right, Well, if they respond this way,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to do next. If they
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: respond that way, this is what I'm going to do next,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: and that resolve is made before going into that conversation.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: I think if you're going to continue to have a
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: conversation or a relationship with your mom, I think a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: conversation is in order because you say your mom is
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: sixty something. Yeah, so unless your mom is dying in
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: her sixties, which is possible and terrible if that's true. Uh,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: But like if death is in imminente, maybe you just
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: fucking live with it and you deal with your own
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: issues as it pertains to that, and you just let
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: it go. But like, if your mom is in her sixties,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: you've got You've got a while left here, have twenty
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: more years, that's it, Like, you got it. That's a
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: long time to just be angry and miserable about.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: It's only going to need you more and then you're
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: gonna be real resentful then, like.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I'd have that conversation.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: The more I listened to the two of you talk,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: the more I think maybe it's me that's weird. Maybe
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: I don't like I don't like this because I I
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: go a completely different way with this. Like I'm saying,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: if you're gonna have this stuff that you're talking about,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: I had not crossed my mind.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: If you're going to keep having this, if you're gonna
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: keep having a relationship, it's just a if it's just
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: like you see her a couple of times a year
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: type thing, then fuck it.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: But here's here's also kind of how the way that
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: my mind works. And maybe maybe I'm starting to think
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: maybe this is unhealthy, But like.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: All right, maybe I've taken it. I think it's healthy.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I think I'm just taking it to an extreme. I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: love each other very much. They present gifts of corn
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: to each other.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, right everyone, Okay, Okay, at least we're on the
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: same page here with that.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but what you're about to say is on the
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: right track.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Okay, But like the saying that that I love. I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: love hearing this so much and it's stuck with me
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: though now I can't remember it. It's but it's uh,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: not the best for nothing.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: But us.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to statements
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: or stupidity or whatever. That thing is right, and like
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: I've taken that to heart and I always think about
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: that all the time. And so when somebody does something,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: it really.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Makes you think everybody is stupid all the time, and
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: you think you're just right about it, which is so believable.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I have a question about that, because like,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: when somebody does something to me, like my natural reaction
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: anymore is not like I don't get offended easily. I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: do not get offended by anything, whereas I've noticed that
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: other people do. Like I've had this conversation with uh,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Laura example, not so much Oh yeah Laura, Yeah in Paris, Yeah,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: oh my god. But like uh, or even friends, you know,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: where we will be talking about something and somebody will
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: do something and then they're just like upset and angry
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, it just bothers me. And I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: was there. I experienced the exact same thing, and I
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: don't think anything of it because I don't like, Okay,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: yes this person did something, and yes it did affect me.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: In some way. But I don't take that as they
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: did this with the intent to do something better. I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: always assume they just weren't paying attention or it was
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: something that they didn't.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Realize that Mom is bad. I'm not ass even things like, Okay,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: I went to college in this town. She came to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: visit me one time. Now they have a house there.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Now they're going there all the time.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Like that to thoughtlessness, yes exactly. Yeah, and that's that's
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: my thought too. It's like, I don't attribute that to
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: mom being malicious.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's you. I think it's just it's
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: just people don't think about it.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. So why wouldn't you have a conversation
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: with them, right, Because to me, if you're ignorant, you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: don't know. So I need to talk to you about
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: that and let you.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Know because okay, so man, I need to be on
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: the same page with Whitney. I hate it on the couch,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: that's right, Whitney and I are very replied right now
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: in my office chair.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: No, the reason I wouldn't because, like, to me, that's
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: that's on me, Like that's the way I think of that. Okay,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: if I'm in this situation and this is bothering me.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: Then I'm looking at this and I'm saying like, Okay, well,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: why is it bothering me? If this is just she's
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: not paying attention, I can have this conversation with her.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: And is that going to improve her attentiveness? Probably not.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: She's going to be the same person she was before,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: but she's not going to be any I don't think
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: it's going to change behavior.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: But whether it changes behavior or not, you can still
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: get some positives out of it. I mean you can.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: You can get it out into the open, for one thing.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: And also, even if mom doesn't change your behavior, if
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: you see Mom even making an effort to change to
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: change behavior, I mean that could be a step in
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the right direction as well. Now, and again, like I
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: think it does. I just think like if you don't
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: deal with it, you're going to be dealing with it.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: You're gonna deal with it either now and deal with
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: it once, and it's going to be uncomfortable and awkward,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to do that or you're just
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be upset and sad about it for the rest
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: of Mom's life, and then after she dies, you're gonna
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: be upset and sad about it, and she's going to be.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Dead or trying to deal with it when she's seventy
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: five or eighty. And then you're like, uh.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: So it really kind of depends on the relationship.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: With Laura.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: No, no, I wouldn't yes exactly.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and and like I've actually got a few
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: different layers of examples of this exact same thing us
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: now that I think about this, because you're one hundred
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: percent right if this was Laura. Okay, we're going to
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: have this talk because I need you to know how
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: I felt when this happened. I want to bring this
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: a two year attention. And even if it doesn't change behavior,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: like Jacob said, you know, me being able to talk
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: about that may also explain why you're reading something from me.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: I also have another friend that I think just like
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: he's he means well, he just doesn't think before he
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: says stuff, and like we don't live anywhere close to
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: each other at the moment, and so with him, I've
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: not approched. He said some stuff that if really that's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: bothered me. Right, and then but it's stuff that like
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to bring up because it's that's just him.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: That's just how his mind works. He says whatever pops
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: into his head and he there's no filter. It just
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: kind of goes and so it's just like, Okay, well
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: I kind of know what I'm signing up for, Okay,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: Like this is the relationship that we have, this is
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: who he is. If he's going to say something's going
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: to bother me, they're just like, all right, I gotta go,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: I'll talk to you later, right, And then there's no
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: point to me. I think even bringing it up to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: share like how I feel about this, if.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: It's not like it's just him, he's like not gonna
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: start filtering for you, like this buddy that you see
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: or whatever.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah, but that's not that's not a parent true.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: But honestly, I think even my parents, I don't.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe, I mean, I'll push back around that a little
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: bit though, because like part of this is going to
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: be for do we have a name? It was uh
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: for part of a not a mouse though, I mean,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: it's gotta be there's gotta be some anger there, clearly,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Like I'm so surprised to hear you say that that
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: being the mom doesn't make it different when every therapist
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: cartoon talks about like how important the mother child relationship is, Like,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: that's all you. I'm not against going against cartoons.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not that I'm always on the side of cartoons.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: What's to come after you next?
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: I have a thought on that though, because, like with
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: your partner, there is a presumption that they do care
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: about you. So if there's something they're doing that is
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: not showing that, it's like, hey, that's up, Like you
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: said this thing. It hurt me with your parent anon
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: a mouse, You're saying like, I don't think they fucking
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: care about me. They like not that that's true, but
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: that's how it's feeling. So there's like a presumption my
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: parent may not. But I think this is where it
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: gets tricky with parents. We have an expectation, whether it's
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: by society or whatever, of how parents should or should
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: not behave, and that will really get into your head
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: the expectation like a good parent does a a good
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: parent does be like and if they don't do those things,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: you start questioning like what's wrong with me? Why can't
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: my parent be a better parent? Do they just not
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: like me? That never feels good? And so then how
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: to address that because like Jacob said, there, they're your parent.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: They're probably going to be in your life to some extent,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: even if it's just to bother you when they're dying.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: And it's gotta be an extra slap in the face
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: that mom walks around talking about how proud she is
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: of having raised the kids.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, so like mom thinks she did a good job
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: here it seems like, yeah, which is kind of also
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: why I'm on team Let's have a conversation with mom
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: about it, Okay, because I bet it's it sounds like
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: it's at least important enough to Mom that she's talking
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: about one aspect of being a parent. Yeah, regularly, the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: two of you are winning me over. Okay.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, So here's here's something that Whitney said that just
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: kind of is an AHA moment for me. So I've
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: lived in Vegas now since twenty eleven. Okay, So whatever
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: math that works out to.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Be is no one can do that. It's impossible. There's
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: no point even I don't even own a chalkboard, yes,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: much less the number of chalk would need.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: A chalkboard.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Pull out your abacus chalkboard.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: So so I had this thought my mother has been
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: out to visit me one time. Yeah, okay, since twenty eleven.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Now does that bother me?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It does.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: She's afraid of flying and driving just she's overall just
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: afraid of ye.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: And so and so. Yes, it bothers me. Is it
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: something that I bring up? No?
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: And And I guess the reason why is because the
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: difference between me and the writer is that my mom
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: has shown me in.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: Other ways that she cares about me, or that I'm important,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: or that she loves me, or all these other things
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: that she's been a mom in other ways. You know,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: she does me here all the time. It was a lovely,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: lovely Dorothy Mantooth. We have brunch. It's lovely. Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, even even with with my dad and any
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: kind of disagreements that we have, he shows me in
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways that he cares, you know. And
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: so like, I think that's kind of the big difference
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: here with the writers, Like it means more when it's
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: not shown in other ways than all of these other
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: things that she's not doing mean more.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: So in that case, yeah, maybe a conversation you clearly
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: have a deficit of what you need from your from
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: your mom.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: Here yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would definitely, I just
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: have to spend a second validating. I would be so
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: pissed if I went to college somewhere my parents came
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: once or hardly at all, and then went and got
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: a mountain hometown or mountain the house there house, yeah,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: and they're that same town and just was there every
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: other weekend. I I would be upset.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if my parents ever came to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: visit me in college, so I would not visit me
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: terribly often. I was two hours away.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: I don't remember my parents each came like once maybe yeah,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking my I went home a lot more though.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: How far away were you from? Like how driving?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: How far was two hours?
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of those things too. I like
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: don't talk to my parents very often, Like I would
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: go months without talking to them, and yeah, anyway, but
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: my roommate would talk to her parents almost every day,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: And I was.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Like, s J does that, Yes, talked to her mom.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: It's very normal. It doesn't every day, but several times
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: a week, right exactly? Really consistently maybe every day? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: like a text to call whatever, like a FaceTime.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I try to talk to teach my parents, like I
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: try to call them once every week or so.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: I had to make a pact with my mom. I mean,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: y'all met her, but that was like we would go
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: months and I was like this, I want to talk
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: more often. So we made a pact every two weeks
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: we haven't heard from each other by then, then we
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: have It's an f though.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: It was a conversation I had with her. I was like,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: this is what I would like if you want to
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: do that. If not, then I'm going to match your energy.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: Then I'm on next page. That's where I'm like, I
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: think you don't have the conversation first though. Yes, the conversation,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: the opportunity.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: The opportunity is the conversation, and it's and all I
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: think all you're looking for is any movement at all.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think it has to be a change. I
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: think all you're looking for is maybe even just an.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: Acknowledgment, agreed, agreed, and then an educated decision after that,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Like you make you have all the you have the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: facts you need from there, and how do we.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Want this relationship to look going forward? We both want
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: to be happy with our relationship going forward. How do
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: we want that to look because like right now, I'm
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: not happy with how this looks, and I don't want
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: to continue doing that. I don't I don't want to
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: be unhappy with my mom all the time.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Totally, totally. Yeah, it's complicated, those parent dynamics. Yeah, I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: would be really upset in your shoes. So I get it.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: There's no guide book. I guess there are now, but
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: there's not like an official guidebook to being a parent,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: like it's it's just tricky. Yes, there is. It's called
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: the Holy Bible. Jacob. Now, I thought we sure Dad
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Vice was about to get out. What's that? I know?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: It's a It's a thing that holds up my coffee table.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: So there you going on a mouse. We did some
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: good work today, we did. I feel like we got
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: more into the weeds today without Jim around. Wee, we
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: got a little more into the weeds on some stuff
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: that we usually would have zo. Yeah, we're gonna take
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: quick break when we come back. We're gonna end the show.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 1:15:43
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• 1:15:46
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• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: You know I miss hearing Trum on those lists. I
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: miss a literal pickle, A literal pickle. Where are you at, buddy,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: A literal pick Yeah, not calling you out, I just
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: miss you, that's all.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we mis Jacob. How do you feel about my
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: phone being at nineteen percent right now?
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with it? Min is it seventy eight? Which
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: is a little low? Check my phone now fifty eight?
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Perfectly fine with it. It doesn't bother me. But like
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: if as soon as I'm around a charger, and I
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: do definitely put chargers everywhere in my life.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm living a rich life if I
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: have a charger whenever I want one.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: Like I have a charger that lives next to my bed. Yeah,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I have a charger that lives next to my chair.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: In my living room.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I have a charger at my desk in my office,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: and it's like built into the desk. Too, so like
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: I just set my phone down on it and it's
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: flushed with the rest of the desk.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: I've got one charger, but it's a fifty foot cord,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: so I can I just kind of take.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: It any quizes for us?
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: Great, perfect, I don't think I got one. Thank god.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: The next answer was Ruth Bader Ginsburg used to work
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: as a what was she I'm trying to remember now.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: The car hop roller skates.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all the time we have for this week's session.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, I just kipt down a little bit.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: you that if you sign up at patreon dot com
• 1:17:37
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• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: the show ad free a day early, as well as
• 1:17:43
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• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: skill shares, research research roundups, and rants, which we are
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: going to be doing a better job at I actually have.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: I've got somebody lined up for uh oh, finally.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: This show.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: No, I got a really good at least that I got.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: I got a good interview with nutritionists.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Oh nice, I'm going to be that's awesome.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: Interviewing and hopefully collaborating with with mental Fit personal training
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: dot Com. We gotta started talking about gut health the
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: other day and all the microbiome stuff. That's some fascinating stuff.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: I want to know more about.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: I do too. All right, well it's gonna tell me
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: about the second brain. Yeah, make me learn stuff.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: We got some new patreons, so we do a few
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: new therapods. Welcome to the show. Renee g Hannah, Emeya
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: and Scoop Bucky Welcome.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you for contributing.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: And of course we've got our their partners. We got
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: to think we got a list. We got a list.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, it is the first.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: First of the month. We have to thank all of
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: our therapods.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: We want to thank you, Thank you, the dark Lord himself,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: Jim's Fasha University, Jeff Robert Brownie or Robert Paulson, Linda Brandmeyer, Scoopstnat,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: Joseph Pangrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips, Gavin Bristow, Karen Tierhark,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: Kerry Tierarc.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: This is my sister.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: Her name Kwe Scoop Kiwi Fruit Scoop Take an ev Podcast,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: James K. Craig, Little Don Door, Jim Hunter, Scoop, a Tron,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: Todd Canfield, Felicia Butler, David Sorensen, Shayla Bullock, Lauren is O,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: Katie Chibakowski, Adam Patton, Neuzo, Matt's Lenegren, Lee Popsicle, Scoops, Scoop, Itter, Ascending,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: Ian Soto, That Josh Guy, Mama, Ninja Scoop, James Dawson,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: Sarah Olow, Grumpy Lake, Mead Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen mccaullaugh,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: Leah Lilah Lee.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Lola, Kelly.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: Nippy, Brian Emra, Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, j D. Cogni,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: Julius Cappell, Uh, there you are, Matthas Band, Brandt h Stacy,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: Ken Tinsley, Fendley Smells Funny, Matthew Cubic, Chad Chad the
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: Safety lad Walker, Fluke, Philip Guiton, Temistry, Almost Doctor Nurse,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: Joey Duffy, That just waiting for my number, Therapist Bear,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: Joel McKell, McMillan, Kristin Robbins, Christopher de Grusie, Kirky Grim,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: Tricia Ortez, Melissa Geisler, Freia Lawson, Kirsten Johnson, E. J Stewart,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: you want to take one, go for.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: It, Mississippi Hippies, Scott A, Heather w Petty, Ladd Kyle,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Anthony Camarada, David Williams, Kate I thought it said Kate,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: please Kate, Lee Police a fantastic Kernipillar, Buddy Dobbins, Eric Dyer,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Glitch Scoop, Nathan Musk maybe Muki uh a let up Bezies,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: bug Nuts, Steven Landon, Adam Bell's, Kenneth Wong, John Finleyson, Mysterious,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Annelid Carmen Petty kJ Mister mister Poff, mister something like that, yep,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: mister pof All. One word though, Persephonie Hazard k Pizzle Dizzle,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: Robert Cole, Temporary Reality Shop dot Com, Jeff Darnell, James
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Jamie b Jacob Hurt, Uh, what the Ssidium Societium Societium?
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: What the hell is that? Ray J Shark recreated? Uh,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: Kilka Daniels or Silka Daniels? Maybe? What does scoop mean?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Jake Jacob billings Ley, Alex Jardine, Dylan Collopye Wolf, the
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: O five, Chris Courtney Dale The King, Adam Goff, Cedar Hayden,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Jesse Miller, Kevin Tribe, Linus Hackenson or something like that.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Your name is Hakasan Hakkissan like the club Linus Hakkissan, Yep,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: Livy Grace, Terrible Day, Terrible Day. Itie bitty chicken farmer.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Does that mean you're itty bitty or that it didn't matter?
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Yea get Kylie, Sam k Mathis, Zachary w Chill Food,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: John Caravadis, fish Bumfish, Foxy Sally, Zelda Ray Skywalker, Cloudy Pies,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Hannah Amaya Winter Scoop Neck Pubes, Matthew Connor, john S
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Andrea s Maybe ye Andre the wittle shitty titty kitty
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: fun Crapper, Ian Johnson, Wait, don't you want to take
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: the rest?
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And Rene gah so much theraodactyls. We have ice
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Blue Scoop, Brian Lahman, Andrea Anderson, Lori Eltsroth's Size, Shawnagun Scoopy, Scoopy,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Jess jess Ooki Scoop, Dank Butta brooks Lyle adam Ripchik,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: Lovely Spark, Jim and Monnu, The Offices of Counselor and Counselor.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Manuel Cavassos, Krusty Croissant a smug Mochi ice Cream, Nora Monico,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Momi Damante, Mike j Nielsen and BB Hermit and.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I can I take their partners down? You sure? Ken.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: We'd like to thank the benevolent, revere, generous, and flagrantly
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: pro Therapy diehards who love you so much that they
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: give till it hurts. That's the Therap Producers, Dirty Be
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: and Picket Picket pick it.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: And we especially want to thank our boss Is, the
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: mysterious and shrouded Illuminati members of her fan club, the
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: THERA Producers, Thank you. Jake Schneidermira, Robert Brownie Junior Mint,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: Smitty Scoop, Richard Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Richard, Leon, Kasab,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slipper, Kaye, Motherfucker,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: Ben Stanley, Slap in your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: t Mike helm Oscar swanros Paris A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop Heyo, Hannah, Marie,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: Andrew Langmead, Emma Tanka and Pony Soprano, Elena Cody, The
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: DeLorean Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, Filatio, Gabriella Dome, Sean Sutherland,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: The Ginger Scoop, Chad meg Adam warn Inca, Le Prince,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: Sam Cone and Biga do Crime.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you want to hear this episode uncut and unedited.
• 1:24:11
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• 1:24:13
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nick Tangman, I'm Whitney, I'm job and thanks and
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• 1:25:08
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