Latest / Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship / Bonus: Take Back Your Social Life (Nina on “SuperPsyched” with Dr. Adam Dorsay)

Transcript

Bonus: Take Back Your Social Life (Nina on “SuperPsyched” with Dr. Adam Dorsay) · Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically one of the biggest themes of the Nina Badz and story is take back your power.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to move to a new town, start a new club, show me that you're actually the one who's doing the things that will get the life that you want.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But don't passively say, oh my gosh, nobody here is open to me.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: No, show that you're actually reaching out first.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Take some time.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It may take a minute.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It may take a few years.
0:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Dear Nina Conversations about French.
0:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a treat for you today.
0:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I am playing for you an episode where I was the guest and I loved this episode so much.
0:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been a guest quite a bit and I normally don't put them on my feet, but I'm starting to do it a little bit because I have conversations as a guest that are different than when I am the host.
0:48
[SPEAKER_03]: We just get into things that don't necessarily come up when I'm the one asking the questions.
0:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Or even if I'm doing a solo podcast, I was a guest on Dr. Adam Dorsey's podcast Super site.
0:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He was also a guest on here about a year ago, and that's a wonderful episode which will be linked in the show notes.
1:04
[SPEAKER_03]: But I want to play the episode for you on Super site where I was the guest.
1:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Adam Dorsey is a licensed psychologist and executive coach in Silicon Valley.
1:14
[SPEAKER_03]: where he serves high achieving adults including professional executives, entrepreneurs and professional athletes.
1:21
[SPEAKER_03]: He is the host of SuperSight, which is also the name of his book, SuperSight.
1:26
[SPEAKER_03]: He was such a fun interviewer.
1:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, first of all, I just love his voice.
1:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You will enjoy his actual speaking voice that was a pleasure to listen to and to talk to him.
1:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You can find out a lot more about him in the show notes.
1:38
[SPEAKER_03]: In the episode, what we talk about is the importance of friendship, obviously, but really practical advice, what I specialize in on making friends, keeping friends, and all those new on dynamics that come up with in friendships.
1:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I share my own
1:53
[SPEAKER_03]: past and insights on the importance of taking control of your own social life.
1:59
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing Adam said about this episode he said.
2:01
[SPEAKER_03]: This episode is packed with actionable advice for anyone looking to deepen their understanding of friendship and improve their social connections.
2:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a fair assessment.
2:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you to Adam for having me.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. Adam Dorsay, a psychologist in Silicon Valley and the host of SuperSight.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: A podcast dedicated to supercharging your life.
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Each episode contains fun, high-quality interviews with experts looking at psychology from all angles.
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: SuperSight is your tool to get more of what you want in your life and less of what you don't.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I care deeply about friendship and have given the topic much thought personally and professionally.
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So four years ago, when Cal Poly San Luis Obespo invited me to give a TEDx talk, I didn't have to think about my topic.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I chose friendship in adulthood.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite friendships and importance in our lives, it's only recently received some of the attention it deserves.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Esther Perrell has spoken about it, so has the surgeon general.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Recently, I guessed it on a podcast called Dear Nina.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Conversations about friendship with Nina Badson to talk about my book as it relates to friendship and connection.
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Nina has been way ahead of the pack.
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Over the last 11 years, she's garnered a huge following.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And media outlets like The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Time Magazine, and many others have referenced her work.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I invited Nina to join me, and it will become apparent to you why I did.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: She profoundly understands the topic of friendship, and you, my dear listeners, will gain so much usable information from her wisdom.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So listen in as Nina and I have a lively conversation about friendship.
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Nina Badzyn, welcome to SuperSight.
4:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Gosh, I love that voice.
4:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it so well from editing you on my podcast and it's just a great voice.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my compliments.
4:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
4:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take it.
4:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, my friend who became an insta friend.
4:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost like just that a lot of it would be came friends.
4:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get over the idea that.
4:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You've been geeking out to friendships since 2014, you started the Deer Nina podcast conversations about friendship, amazing.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You cover seemingly every possible aspect of friendship.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: First off, I did my TEDx talk on friendship.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I care a lot about it, giving a lot of thought.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you come to the idea that this was your geek spot?
4:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that expression geeks, but that's exactly what it is.
4:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, it's exactly because really I'm a writer.
4:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So not a therapist like you.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a social worker.
4:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not coach.
4:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Although you're right.
4:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I've done a lot of mini topics and many, many, many articles and things before that.
5:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of crazy that I'm still talking about it.
5:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I started writing about it in 2014, but I cared about it way longer than that.
5:07
[SPEAKER_03]: My parents talked about friendship a lot.
5:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very lucky to have very good friends growing up and I don't think I struggled that much beyond the normal struggle growing up there was always times I felt left out of course there's times of people because me leaving them out I've been on all sides of that.
5:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But my parents spent a lot of time with their friends.
5:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They at least went out one night a week and usually both with friends and just saw that as part of life.
5:31
[SPEAKER_03]: They had book clubs and they had bridge clubs.
5:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It was essential and I grew up in Chicago.
5:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And I moved to Minneapolis when I was very newly engaged.
5:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I was 23 years old, young and my husband's from here, but he had been gone for a long time and I didn't know anybody.
5:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it would be so easy to make friends as I really didn't have that much trouble before.
5:49
[SPEAKER_03]: and it was not easy all and I have had many episodes on it and I've done it and I've made a lot of good friends but I've been here 24 years.
5:58
[SPEAKER_03]: My entire adult life has been a Minneapolis but I've seen all the ways that I've grown and my attitude about friendship and I want to help other people with it.
6:07
[SPEAKER_03]: But I wrote about a lot of other things for a long time.
6:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Friendship was always there, but I've published a lot of articles about parenting, about religion, advice in general.
6:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to write baby name advice for Kavella, which is a Jewish site.
6:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to write Twitter advice for writers back in 2010, 2011.
6:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So I liked that advice voice, I think.
6:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I was hired in 2014 to write a friendship advice column for a website for women.
6:31
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little reluctant at first because of all the things I said.
6:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a therapist, not a social worker.
6:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And they were like, no, we'll make that the thing.
6:39
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll make it the gig that you're just exactly like you said.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone who geeks out on this topic.
6:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I read every book.
6:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I even wrote a novel that never got published in Gags.
6:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's absolutely awful.
6:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It was about who was so bad.
6:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But even that was about friendship.
6:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It was about three adult women who were all dumped by the same woman at different points in that woman's life.
6:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this kind of stuff just, this is the stuff I like to think about and talk about.
7:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think also because I got married young, that's one of my theories got married very young for this day and age.
7:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I was 23 when I got married.
7:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So that whole subject dating.
7:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have anything to say about dating.
7:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything about it.
7:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I met him when I was senior in college and he was in grad school.
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Friendship is where it's at.
7:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the thing that's so important in life.
7:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So Esther Pearl talks about the idea that modern marriage is suffering due to the lack of friendships that we used to live in these villages and we could lean on various people for various rules.
7:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we expect all of the rules to be played by our spouse, which is way too much and I'm wondering, has that been true for you?
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You seem to be happily married for a long time and
7:47
[SPEAKER_00]: can you just describe the role that friendship played in your life and how it may have impacted the health of your marriage?
7:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that I modeled a social life and my husband's social life for that matter after my parents and I just expected that to be the case.
8:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I
8:04
[SPEAKER_03]: moved to Minneapolis.
8:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe in the year 2000.
8:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I had kind of such an old fashion attitude, but hey, it works.
8:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I said I'm going to start a book club and I started making friends a took time, but one by one, and then if they were dating or engaged themselves or married, I would.
8:21
[SPEAKER_03]: suggest at some point that we get together as a couple, I actively, it was a verb.
8:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I made friends, and I considered it my job to make friends.
8:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in grad school at the time.
8:31
[SPEAKER_03]: My husband was working.
8:32
[SPEAKER_03]: He was working.
8:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He may be 30 minutes from where we are living.
8:35
[SPEAKER_03]: He just didn't have as much time.
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in grad school to be an English teacher.
8:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a master's in education and then I was an English teacher.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I just had different hours than he had.
8:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I had more motivation.
8:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I cared more about making friends than he did at the time.
8:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But he talks a lot about how grateful he is that I actively made friends for us.
8:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So my parents went out twice a week and like I said, we only got once a week and because we do shit about dinner on Friday nights and we do not go out.
9:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have people over.
9:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But
9:02
[SPEAKER_03]: don't go out.
9:03
[SPEAKER_03]: We probably have plans and we have four kids.
9:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Even when we are at the kids are little, we go out almost every Saturday night with friends.
9:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Usually just one other couple, sometimes two other couples, I don't love more than six.
9:15
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a whole other topic.
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I think more than six is too much to try to catch up or even hear.
9:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was a huge priority in our marriage.
9:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I saw it with my parents and I think a lot of people should be making
9:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know this is very specific to married people, but I would say no matter what stage of life you're in, marriage, single, you have to make time for friends and you have to make it.
9:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't just happen.
9:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You said several things that really captured my attention and you're also suggesting that the happiness of your children or the well-being of your children may also be elevated by the presence of friendship.
9:54
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing you said was that you've come to a number six.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that.
10:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And I asked I didn't really answer very well about the health of the marriage.
10:03
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll come to six in a second, but I want to just finish on why we go out with other couples.
10:08
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so good for your marriage because you get to see your spouse act slightly elevated.
10:14
[SPEAKER_03]: We just are different out of the house than we are at home and we can all pretend like that shouldn't be the case and you should be the exact same person everywhere you go.
10:22
[SPEAKER_03]: We set out this reality.
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We now know through research that it is positively untrue, that we are different.
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Our voice has changed depending on who we're talking to.
10:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, right.
10:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
10:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Mirror the people around this.
10:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So you go out as a couple and out the sudden, your partner's a little funnier than he was for the past week at home.
10:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And look so little better.
10:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And everyone's listening a little more and leading into the table
10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Even if you're not all talking as a table because now back to the six.
10:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So once you're at six, a lot of times there's two conversations going on realistically, I think the older we get that's even more true because it's very hard for person number one and person number six and different parts of the table to hear each other in a restaurant especially.
11:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So you end up kind of in many conversations and that's okay.
11:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You're out.
11:08
[SPEAKER_03]: You're having a good time.
11:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You have the car ride together there and back to get ready to debrief when you get home.
11:15
[SPEAKER_03]: You're a partner that was still your partner.
11:17
[SPEAKER_03]: You went out with all these friends, but you go home with your person and we have other things out of bring to your conversation.
11:25
[SPEAKER_03]: You've been out in the world with other people.
11:29
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't go out that often just the two of us on
11:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I should talk to Esther, or you have helped that.
11:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's its own issue, I don't know.
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What have been some of the most powerful and important lessons and takeaways you've derived from your episodes and talking to so many people?
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: you would not believe how back to basics, most popular episodes are.
11:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So one of the most popular episodes I did in this past year aren't the big things you would think like the breakup stories.
12:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't do a lot of individual stories, but there's breakup and things like that and that's up to as well on social media.
12:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if I put out a little
12:09
[SPEAKER_03]: real about a friendship breakup and people love that kind of stuff because it relates right to emotion and experience people have had people actually really like the practical back-to-basics.
12:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've had an episode on literally how to make plans.
12:22
[SPEAKER_03]: This is how you make plans.
12:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talk like this sometimes you do not reach out to somebody and say, Hey, you want to meet for coffee.
12:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely not.
12:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I really against that skip a step.
12:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to put dates out people like that stuff.
12:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like really kindergarten level, but I think people need to hear it.
12:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I get a lot of letters.
12:42
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing I didn't mention is that a huge part of my work is receiving anonymous letters from people and then they truly are anonymous.
12:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a form that doesn't require email address.
12:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So you don't have to go make up some crazy Gmail to write me it's anonymous.
12:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I get all kinds of stuff from people and this has been going on since 2014.
12:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I still use it in the newsletter and stuff.
13:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear from people what they're dealing with and so many people are dealing with feeling like there's no reciprocity in their friendships and so I like to talk about make it easy to make plans with people you put out the dates don't just say let's get together and sit and hope and pray and that they want to get together because that's how this conversation goes hey you want to get together for coffee sure that's on great well that person didn't put out days and you didn't put out dates.
13:28
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are the one who's asking for plans, let me please change the world.
13:32
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is my mission if this is why God put me on earth, then I'm fine with it.
13:37
[SPEAKER_03]: My mission is to tell you that when you reach out to someone, you have to reach out with dates.
13:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And if that person is interested and can't do those dates, they will counter with other dates.
13:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It is as basic as that.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: If that person is not that interested, they will make it really hard to make plans with them, and you'll get the idea.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's okay.
13:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you move on to the next person.
13:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I know that's easier said than done.
13:56
[SPEAKER_03]: People are really emotional and take things really personally.
13:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But moving to a new town is a great example.
14:01
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another big topic where making plans is major.
14:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of bitterness.
14:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I did it here, right?
14:07
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of bitterness about
14:09
[SPEAKER_03]: People tell me all the time I moved and nobody here is welcoming and I'll ask back if it's in my Facebook group I also have a Facebook group I can't ask back on the anonymous letters which I do on purpose because I'm not a coach I'll say well what have you done so far and oftentimes as well nothing but like nobody's really invited me anywhere.
14:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's inviting you any?
14:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Where did you mean anybody?
14:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, no one's inviting you anywhere.
14:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And call me in 20 years when you've lived there 20 years, are you the first person to invite every new person probably not, because lives get really full.
14:37
[SPEAKER_03]: When you are the one who needs plans, you are the one who has to make plans.
14:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Aggressively, often, and suggest dates.
14:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Those have been popular episodes, really practical stuff about how to see people.
14:50
[SPEAKER_03]: The bigger topic actually I want to talk to you about, too, your work.
14:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just curious, the reciprocity issue is just major.
14:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I tell people, again, in my unprofessional psychology opinion, but in what I consider now professional, friendship opinion, tell me if I'm right.
15:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I tell people they need to redefine reciprocity.
15:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're looking at reciprocity as I reached out on text this time to make the plan, we went out, we had found we went to see wicked, whatever.
15:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Now it's your turn.
15:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, then the other person never does it.
15:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, guys, we're adults here.
15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: People have jobs.
15:21
[SPEAKER_03]: They may or be single.
15:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe Mary might have kids might not.
15:24
[SPEAKER_03]: lives are very full.
15:25
[SPEAKER_03]: If you really had a good time and you want to see the person again, do not stand in ceremony where they a good listener?
15:30
[SPEAKER_03]: They say yes right away.
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: If they couldn't go out, do they right away go into their counter and suggest a different date?
15:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they offer to drive?
15:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you have a great time and they had a lot of fun banter?
15:40
[SPEAKER_03]: That was their former reciprocity.
15:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Their former reciprocity might not be that they text you back the next time.
15:46
[SPEAKER_03]: They have to reach out five times in a row because maybe the friendships slightly more important to you or you're just better at it.
15:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You're more organized.
15:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So you are the one who's going to reach out five times for every one time.
15:58
[SPEAKER_03]: People are ending friendships over this and I think it is in the stick.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because you're talking about reciprocity, slowly in the context of initiation.
16:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the other places, are they asking good questions?
16:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they showing their interest?
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they showing up when they say they showed?
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: versus actually do what they say they'll do when they say they'll do it.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many considerations and to look at it solely through the lens of initiation, it goes back to something deep in our, in my desired.
16:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is yes, obviously, yes, because the person who's responding is saying,
16:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, this isn't him saying that people don't care, but only want to be reached out to him.
16:46
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
16:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what you're also saying, and basically one of the biggest themes of the Nina Badz and story is take back your power.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to move to a new town, start a new club, show me that you're actually the one who's doing the things that will get the life that you want, but don't passively say, oh, my gosh,
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: No, show that you're actually reaching out first.
17:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Take some time.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It may take a minute.
17:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It may take a few years.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's even.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a while as I love putting this of all people Ross Pro quote.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, Eagles do not flock.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to find them one at a time.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just true.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to find good quality people, who are going to become your people who meet with six people at a dinner table, it takes a while to find really good well matched people who
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Or reciprocal in the other areas, even if they're not reciprocal in terms of the initiating the invitation.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So I agree with you.
17:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that it is a misstep it's a huge misstep it's something I say often you can quote me on that says don't go looking for.
17:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Good friends.
17:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not looking for good friends.
18:00
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in a place in life, it's not just from moving.
18:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you're divorced.
18:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you all the sudden realize that a certain point in life.
18:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually don't like these people I've been hanging out with.
18:08
[SPEAKER_03]: They criticize me a lot.
18:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I never feel like myself with them.
18:10
[SPEAKER_03]: You just want to start over for whatever reason.
18:13
[SPEAKER_03]: There's lots of reasons to people need new friends.
18:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're in that position, you're not searching for good friends.
18:19
[SPEAKER_03]: That's impossible.
18:20
[SPEAKER_03]: You're searching for friends.
18:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to start with friends.
18:23
[SPEAKER_03]: You might even be just searching for really great acquaintances or you already had some acquaintances and then you want to maybe start with there and meet with some of those people.
18:31
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're never looking for good friends.
18:32
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so hard.
18:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not looking for a friend group.
18:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's the other thing I hear about a lot.
18:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody wants a friend group.
18:37
[SPEAKER_03]: But nobody just
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, TV has sold us something very different.
18:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw on the TV show friends that all you need to do is live down the hall and all so that we've got it.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Edward and you've got six of the greatest people that have ever come together.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just not how it works.
18:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to look for a get about with friends though.
18:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen it in so long, but even those friendships, so I'll give you remembering back to the early days, two of them new each other, one of them new Phoebe and breath Phoebe and like two of the guys might have known each other, but they brought in a third true they didn't all know each other they got to be a group organically actually.
19:13
[SPEAKER_00]: That is actually true.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But the likelihood of all six taking is not very high.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the show.
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it really showed friendship in a very good light.
19:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a great reason for
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That I can go back to and watch an episode and feel good about life again.
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just wonderful and I wonder what are your tips on finding friends?
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like the first one is taking control of the narrative.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Be the initiator.
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't wait to be rescued from the tower of loneliness.
19:49
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
19:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that the power of loneliness you have to try new things and it helps if it's something you actually are interested in because at the very least at least you're doing something you want to be doing.
20:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So I use myself as an example, even though I wasn't looking for friends but ended up making friends and someone could do the same thing.
20:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I had not played tennis in 20 years.
20:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I played in high school and then I kept having kids and never seemed
20:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I felt really jealous of the friends who were playing tennis.
20:23
[SPEAKER_03]: They weren't even playing together necessarily.
20:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'd maybe talking to our fans.
20:27
[SPEAKER_03]: But I have to go, I'm going to play tennis.
20:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I want to play tennis.
20:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And then finally, really, it's weight.
20:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Why can't I play tennis?
20:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a grown-up person with a car and a credit card.
20:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And my kids were getting older.
20:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I absolutely could.
20:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I had made every excuse.
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It was time.
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, it's hard to be bad at something.
20:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Be a beginner again.
20:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I finally went this like three years ago, and I made all these new friends doing it, but I wasn't looking for friends.
20:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to play tennis, but what the open mind, what I take from that is, you have to join stuff and do stuff, but it helps if it's something you want to do.
20:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you want to learn to play pickle ball doesn't have to be something physical can be something crocheting a writing group all the kind of things you should join.
21:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So you should join stuff that you are interested in.
21:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I have been leading writing groups in Minneapolis since 2015.
21:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So around the same amount of time, these are adult women who are interested in creator writing.
21:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of them wanted at that time.
21:21
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the time of blogging.
21:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of them wanted to start blog.
21:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of them wanted to write books.
21:26
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them have become really close friends since, but they didn't, again, join the class necessarily to make friends.
21:33
[SPEAKER_03]: They joined because they wanted to be part of a writing group, but they have traveled together.
21:36
[SPEAKER_03]: They have started huge projects together.
21:38
[SPEAKER_03]: They've become very close friends a lot of them.
21:41
[SPEAKER_03]: it's a byproduct of doing something that you're excited about.
21:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So that would be my first thing always, it's to join something and join several things if you can't and locally.
21:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think we have to do locally, not Zoom stuff.
21:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Those days we're moving on.
21:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It's okay to have some long distance friends.
21:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I have funny myself, but if you're starting over,
22:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It has to be local because your long distance friends that you're making new old long distance friends fine, but brand new long distance friends is not the place to put your energy.
22:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are not the people of showing up with soup when you're sick.
22:15
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not the people driving you to the airport.
22:17
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not the people of showing up when a loved one dies and you need somebody to sit with you, not happening.
22:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you are in a place in life where you need new friends and you only have so much time in a day, local is the place to be.
22:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a really important idea.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: People talk about geographic undesirability when they're dating, of course, and you're talking about that when you're trending.
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also just going to put out an asterisk next to what you said, just as a proposition, and it's been my experience.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: that perceived support is such a big deal that even non-local friends just having a friend that you can just say, hey, having a crap day, I know you're thinking, oh, it's miles away.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you call me back and you get a call back and it's somebody you've been friends with forever and they know you and something about perceived support.
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There was an interesting study that was done and I know you're going to love this.
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't heard about this one,
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: People were about to climb a very tall hill, a very challenging physical feet, and they were told to estimate the grade of the hill, both in the presence of and in the absence of a friend.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And when they were in the presence of a friend, it seemed far easier to climb in their estimation of the grade.
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's something about that perceived support.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would even
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: that a nice diversified portfolio of lots of local people, but also having some perhaps non-local people who you can just I call it the Stevie Wonder, just call to say I love you.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have no real reason to call just I've got Jed Goldstein over in New Jersey and I'm going to see him once out of nine years at the rate we're going.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And that means I'll see him five more times before I die.
24:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, not, not depressing.
24:06
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I agree with you.
24:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I would put that in a different bucket though.
24:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I'm talking local, I'm talking about making friends, what you're talking about in my opinion is maintaining friendships, which is its own topic and hugely important.
24:18
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to maintain those long distance friendships.
24:20
[SPEAKER_03]: They will not maintain themselves.
24:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So that is phone calls.
24:23
[SPEAKER_03]: That is visits sometimes.
24:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It's regularly being in touch and not just with social media likes.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about maintenance as it relates to local and long distance as you see it.
24:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So I am a big social media person.
24:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not here to put down social media.
24:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I love me some Instagram.
24:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not TikTok even.
24:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all that stuff.
24:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that stuff.
24:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It's huge.
24:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I told you, I used to have a Twitter advice thing where I wrote advice about Twitter as an early.
24:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we're supposed to call X.
24:53
[SPEAKER_03]: We're supposed to not be out in any more all
24:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a low-hanging for lazy, easy way to stay in touch with both long-distance and local friends.
25:05
[SPEAKER_03]: People can have local friends that they only exchange social media likes with a never-see.
25:10
[SPEAKER_03]: guys, that is not going to work.
25:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to work long term.
25:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not you're not going to have actually what you talked about.
25:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that expression, the perceived.
25:21
[SPEAKER_03]: How did you word that.
25:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't perceive support.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what's called the study.
25:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I know exactly what you're describing just that knowledge that knowing you have that someone will be there for you.
25:31
[SPEAKER_03]: If you need them and not even just in theory, but they've actually shown it to be true, but also in theory, you know it.
25:37
[SPEAKER_03]: be true that if you needed help or you just wanted to chat with someone or you wanted someone to come with you to something, there would be someone who would say yes.
25:46
[SPEAKER_03]: If your entire friendship has been relying on hearts and likes and comments, even, I think you're in trouble.
25:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying get off social media, but not to just rely on that as your connection.
25:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I prefer texting at least these attacks is more personal, but that's even get beyond just texting too, but again, not here to put that all down.
26:06
[SPEAKER_03]: There is that study which I'm sure you've quoted too the University of Kansas Jeffrey Hall and the 200 hours that it takes to make a close friend.
26:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in today's age, we can count some of that texting in that meme sharing partially.
26:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't think it's realistic to say it's 200 hours in person these days.
26:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that would take
26:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also think there's a lot of wisdom to that in person time.
26:30
[SPEAKER_03]: It can't be 200 hours of texting.
26:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe 50 of those 200 can be the texting of social media.
26:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a completely made up number, but my point is a portion of it.
26:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that keeps you in touch and you have things to laugh about.
26:41
[SPEAKER_03]: It shows you know the person, it shows you thinking of the person.
26:44
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing wrong with that stuff.
26:45
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to get together in person.
26:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Even when you don't feel like it.
26:48
[SPEAKER_03]: People hate to leave their house, but I'm just trying to push people to
26:52
[SPEAKER_03]: do it anyway, you usually feel better after and it re-ignites the friendship.
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And so much as lost in a mere transcript that is texting, you can't hear the non-verbal, like I'm looking at you right now.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You may be 1,500, 2,000 miles away, but I feel you.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I say that there's a hierarchy of connection.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I say the lowest level is social media.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a step up would be a text, a step up from there would be an email and then a voice text.
27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I love a voice man.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I love a voice man.
27:21
[SPEAKER_03]: That's as her podcasters.
27:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say, oh, my friends are his interests.
27:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll leave them there.
27:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, you couldn't have just called me.
27:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And I got a girl's I cut off.
27:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And video messages are lovely as well.
27:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then phone calls, I think they're still really good.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see you're so much of the non-verbal, so much.
27:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like having a conversation with your roommate and college with the lights turned off in your mutual twin beds, like the Ernie and Bert does like, hey, who are you crushing on these days?
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's et cetera, et cetera.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I had roommates and college within those times of conversations.
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It was great.
27:52
[SPEAKER_03]: cause our surprisingly divisive topic, I am yelled at by younger people.
27:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We're about the same age, so you can empathize with me.
28:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I have been yelled at on TikTok for suggesting God forbid that we should call our friends and hold on out of the blue.
28:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That you don't always need an appointment to call your friend because I feel like that's what voicemails for or just not answering the phone is for.
28:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone calls you and you're not available.
28:15
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
28:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't pick up the phone.
28:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
28:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Isn't it our phone calls work?
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: right.
28:20
[SPEAKER_03]: That is so invasive.
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I've gotten really streamed up.
28:24
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what you're talking about, you're so fashion and I'm like, okay, good luck with your friendships.
28:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how is that an not a legitimate medium?
28:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not suggesting knocking on somebody's door or surprise on here, which in some cultures is actually very much appreciated.
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is a very cultural consideration.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I do hope that the phone just calling us say I love you.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Thing is not considered invasive and rather just considered attending to friendship.
28:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But of course, the best of all is meeting IRL.
28:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if men do this, but I'd say my personal number one friendship catchup thing and then the winter I do it in the mall is walking.
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an hour.
29:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, do men need for walks?
29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think they should because we all need to get our steps in and that is efficient and you really get a lot of talking done and you get your exercise and it's just an overnight.
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, yes, a lot of guys do it, especially these days, especially in Silicon Valley, Steve Jobs was the walk in talker.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember walking Facebook's campus and seeing that that was even how Mark Zuckerberg even was connecting with various people as he was not to be interrupted while he was doing a walk in talker.
29:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember that very specific writer was like, oh, there he is.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Even down my street, I'm delighted to see that it happening.
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I do it with my friends.
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I love a good walk in talk.
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the way in and end.
29:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It has an end.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: A close friend of mine.
29:44
[SPEAKER_03]: My birthday was a couple of weeks ago and she reached out and said can I take you to lunch for your birthday and I did sitting so much just so much sitting.
29:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, could we just meet to walk in the mall because we live in Minnesota and it's great for really tender degrees here.
29:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's sure it is my birthday.
29:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to spend time with her, but I couldn't no more lunches, no more coffee.
30:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I'm like Steve Jobs on foot.
30:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to be on foot.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: every Aaron Sorkin dialogue happens when they're walking and talking and they're good dialogues and it conforms with certain kind of we're on the same team and we're looking out at the same thing.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of goes with the way our brains have been designed over the millennia versus a thumbs up on a like on a host please.
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But walk and talk that's how we used to walk around when we were walking on Savannah and talking, you know, it's nice and hunting and whatever
30:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a social media topic.
30:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious what you think.
30:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it's interesting for you to know what I get yelled at about some times.
30:40
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not a lot.
30:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not such a controversial person at all.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm such a punching bag.
30:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I really not.
30:45
[SPEAKER_03]: These are the two topics, phone calls.
30:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And the other one is
30:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I am really against the idea that your friends should be your number one social media fans.
30:53
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're somebody who's using social media as a business, so people on TikTok, so again, that's where the younger people are.
30:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say four times a day, I see a video of somebody saying, if your friends are not out there liking all of your posts, they are not good friends, red flags, that's what they say, red flag guys, red flag, you know that your friends out here using Instagram,
31:14
[SPEAKER_03]: For work or using TikTok for work, you should be liking all their posts, and I'll sometimes get on there if I'm feeling brave and be like, well, you know, and I write my little old lady comment, your friend is not your customer, and your friend is not your fan, your friend is your friend, and maybe they're just passively using social media the way that we watch TV shows.
31:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people just scroll that as a job, but there's entertainment and they don't actually want to sit and like and comment on every one of your posts like they were your employee or something and so I try to get people to give their friends a little break again people are ending friendships over stuff like that is they think it's a totally tragic yes.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I was totally tragic and it's a weaponizing of this medium and I think it's the wrong take.
31:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I live by the dictate of consume less, create more, actually I say it the opposite way, create more consume less.
32:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we are in the like mode on Facebook, we are consuming and I limit my consumption of social media.
32:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I have maximums that I'm allowed to hit on otherwise.
32:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I get lost on it.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll wonder where my time go.
32:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I have very, very, very tight consumer use of social media.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody's not seeing me as a good friend, because I'm not liking all of their posts, but I am there for them when they need me, then perhaps they're missing something.
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be quite troubling and...
32:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very irrational.
32:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Should you show up at your friends' doctors appointments when they're a doctor and feel like, oh, good job, you did such a good job.
32:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It's expecting way too much.
32:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Our friends do not sign up to be our audience.
32:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll die on that hill right there with you.
32:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
32:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the most uncomfortable aspect of friendship.
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is, when you realize it's not going well, perhaps at some point, you realize, oh my gosh, this person's not who I hope they were, or yeah, this one hanging out with this person, they basically go back to themselves on every comment that I make where they don't champion or they will their eyes or they judge me or they say too much information when I share something that's
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: way in bounds.
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are your thoughts on when things kind of go sideways?
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you address perhaps conflict that may arise?
33:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Huge topic.
33:33
[SPEAKER_03]: One of the top five 20, 24 episodes on my podcast was called the friend who never asks about you.
33:40
[SPEAKER_03]: This really hit an error.
33:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was well titled if I may say so.
33:45
[SPEAKER_03]: People saw that title and they just recognized something.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people have a
33:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It identified the problem a problem a lot of people have, you have this friend who doesn't ever ask how you're doing, but then what you do about it, this is where the conflict part comes in, and I don't think it has to be a friendship ender, but it is a data point, and if you want it to change, you have to say something.
34:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Things never are going to change magically.
34:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just one example, a friend who doesn't ask for you.
34:15
[SPEAKER_03]: but it's a good example and there could be something else like that because it could be really a personality quirk and we have other personality quirk that we get into with people clearly change someone's personality but you can make them more aware of something that's making you feel bad and you could do that in a way by knowing that you don't think they're doing it on purpose.
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you address that one?
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a really, oh, that's a really tough one.
34:37
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have a couple of things.
34:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I would first of all stop waiting to be asked.
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So you could see I've got a lot of theme in here, which is the expectations in the waiting.
34:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Start by you bring up the topics.
34:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And if then they are engaged in listening, that would be step one.
34:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's give this person a chance.
34:55
[SPEAKER_03]: You bring up the topics that you wanted.
34:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Bring up happens to me a lot with my podcast.
34:59
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of my friends don't say,
35:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey Nina, how's the podcast?
35:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a little bit is a fear that they don't listen much is fine.
35:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I don't expect them to be the audience, but I think they're afraid of they ask me about it.
35:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be like, oh, what do you think of episode 57?
35:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just wouldn't be like that.
35:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I would just say, oh, it's great.
35:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't do this great guy Adam.
35:16
[SPEAKER_03]: He lives in California.
35:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would just tell them, since don't necessarily always ask.
35:21
[SPEAKER_03]: They always ask about the kids and my husband.
35:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not like they don't ask about me, but they don't
35:25
[SPEAKER_03]: If I want to talk about that, I just bring it up.
35:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I do not wait for anyone to ask me and my friends are great friends, and they listen, but they don't always ask.
35:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So, that's what I would do first.
35:37
[SPEAKER_03]: You bring up the things that you feel like you are not getting asked about.
35:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Then if they change the subject right away, okay, now we have an issue.
35:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, because now you are a friend who's genuinely not listening.
35:46
[SPEAKER_03]: First, you have a friend who was an asking, that's okay.
35:49
[SPEAKER_03]: You've found it a combination for that by bringing it up.
35:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so now you've brought it up.
35:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Just then they just change a subject and kind of swatted away and move on to the next thing.
35:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I would pause right there.
35:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Hard to do, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's better to do it in the moment and just say like, oh, hold on.
36:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Really wanted to tell you about how works going.
36:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And you just change the subject.
36:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't be super aggressive.
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Just facts.
36:12
[SPEAKER_03]: These are just facts.
36:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, hey, hold on.
36:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we go back to what I was talking about?
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just about to tell you about my job.
36:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think a decent friend in most cases.
36:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm so sorry.
36:21
[SPEAKER_03]: You were right.
36:21
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a bad habit of mind-of-interrupting.
36:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.
36:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, let's go back.
36:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now let's say they don't do that.
36:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
36:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, now we might be getting closer to this is not a person you're going to spend them much time with period.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the things that I keep hearing about you and I love this is you are constantly taking back your power.
36:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You're constantly saying here's the target.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you hit it?
36:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that requires a lot of ramp spaces between your ears.
36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You are clearly an amazing driver through your life.
36:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this is really an important thing.
36:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You recognize that the locus of controls, what we call it in psychology, and that means the scope of our control, so to speak, is within.
37:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't really control without, but we can put out pains.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can say, here's the target, please fire here.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what you're doing.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just really appreciating so profoundly how in touch you are with that reality.
37:25
[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing you can control is what you want and asking for it and pinging for it.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't get it in response, then you've got your answer.
37:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you have your answer.
37:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I would still get the person a chance by bringing it up.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
37:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But now let's say we're at a case where you have made a person aware of a behavior that is bothering you, whether it's not asking about you or other things.
37:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It could be putting you down where somebody might consider funny and just teasing that other friends don't mind.
37:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You might consider an insult.
37:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's just a personality, not problem, but a mismatch perhaps.
37:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really a non-teaser.
38:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just not a not a big teaser.
38:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Therefore I don't feel like I have to take a lot of teasing because I don't give it.
38:07
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I have a friend who's teasing a ton and ton and ton, may say something or I may just not hang out with that person as much because they may not change how they are and how they are isn't necessarily wrong.
38:18
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just not right for me.
38:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of rambling on different.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
38:22
[SPEAKER_00]: really interesting point and sometimes because people are so often comfortable with intimacy and closeness.
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking about sexual intimacy.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about true intimacy, the authentic intimacy that transpires between two people who are sharing of themselves.
38:37
[SPEAKER_00]: intellectually, emotionally, in the whole thing that they feel the need to throw in a bunch of teasing and a bunch of sarcasm.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I love teasing in sarcasm, like salt, but there's a right amount.
38:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And too much of it is not great.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've known people who have said, well, I'm from this part of the country.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just the way we talk.
38:56
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually know many people from that part of the country.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not just a perpetual ballbusting experience.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: they do engage in support.
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that that it sounds like you also really have developed a very clear set of criteria over the years.
39:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's done what works for you and you've made it very conscious in your mind that you know will this float.
39:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say you get to the point where you realize, you always feel bad around this person.
39:24
[SPEAKER_03]: They're always criticizing you.
39:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't listen various issues that you might have with a person.
39:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to spend as much time with this person.
39:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That is hard.
39:32
[SPEAKER_03]: That is the hardest topic because if you're somebody who cares about another person's feelings, that's two number one.
39:39
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, as strong as I am on out of areas, I am a pleaser, a lot, and so that can be a challenge.
39:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I value my time, and I really care about who I spend time with, and yet I also hate to disappoint anybody, and I live in kind of a small town, and I hate for anybody to think I'm not nice.
39:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you have this issue at all, but when you talk about these kind of things publicly, I'm always worried that I'm going to stop spending time with someone.
40:03
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to be like,
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't drop a date with me for the first time.
40:11
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a friend expert who purposely didn't see me for three months.
40:15
[SPEAKER_03]: When I'm advising, I didn't mean to make this so much about my friendships.
40:18
[SPEAKER_03]: But when I'm advising people, a lot of times it is by my own, nice.
40:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.
40:23
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're looking to end something, there are three ways to do it directly to tell the person, listen, I've tried and I don't think it's going to work for us to spend time together.
40:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd say that's the least likely scenario.
40:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, people are including me very adverse to doing that.
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Another would be to completely ghost, which I think is cruel, but is done a lot both in dating and friendship.
40:45
[SPEAKER_03]: The third is that middle thing which they call
40:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That in between, it's that, okay, maybe we're not completely dumb, but maybe we're seeing each other three times a year instead of a times a year.
41:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anyone who sees that many people a times a year, but maybe it's not the person you walk with anymore because those our walks get to be really draining because whatever issue you're having with that person, it's too much.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: But you could handle a couple's dinner twice a year because it's not just that person.
41:17
[SPEAKER_03]: There's other people there and maybe you could hit tennis balls are pickable with that person because again, you're doing something that everything has to be so black and white.
41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: We are really close friends over and not a whole middle universe.
41:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That I would advise people to look at first.
41:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Make your own life simpler and then maybe out of kindness.
41:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that.
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So Nina, is there anything I should have asked but haven't yet asked before my final big question?
41:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
41:44
[SPEAKER_03]: We've covered so many things.
41:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Love this, right?
41:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you had the power to confer upon all humanity, one insider skill that would dramatically improve their lives.
41:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And since we're all connected, perhaps the lives of others around them, what would that insider skill be?
41:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And what do you imagine impact would be on the
42:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this question so much.
42:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And listeners, I did not get this question ahead of time.
42:11
[SPEAKER_03]: The answer is without a question assuming the best of others.
42:15
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no other thing.
42:16
[SPEAKER_03]: It is the magical answer.
42:18
[SPEAKER_03]: It's true though, every single anonymous letter I get and I get several a week.
42:24
[SPEAKER_03]: The answer in my head before I even write it, assuming the best, if you had assumed the best or the another way of saying that is benefit of the doubt, those are the same thing, right?
42:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So benefit of the doubt, assuming the best,
42:34
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can assume that there's information you don't know, you are writing a story that isn't true about this situation, the friend you never asks about you, for example, maybe they just really aren't good at it.
42:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not that they don't care about you.
42:48
[SPEAKER_03]: They just, I don't know, no one ever asks about them growing up or something.
42:51
[SPEAKER_03]: They just aren't good at it.
42:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So then that's why I say just offer the information, stop testing everybody.
42:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Soon the best.
42:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what a bullseye as part of the reaction.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So much fun and so good.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I loved about this conversation, because we're winding it down, is to reiterate just the idea of taking your power back and assuming the best is one of those things that a person can do to get their power back.
43:19
[SPEAKER_00]: fantastic, just fantastic, you know, friends are better together and we're probably at our best when of course we need to be dependent and reliant in certain ways on our friends.
43:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet we also have to start by asking Emily checking in with myself.
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm asking for what I need.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I doing the things so to speak?
43:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to thank you.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad that I know you.
43:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's here.
43:46
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been to each other's podcast in that fun.
43:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like we had plans twice.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I hope one day we'll meet an IRL double date and love that so fun.
43:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be as for that night to keep the conversation about anything.
44:01
[SPEAKER_03]: The hearing good.
44:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for having me so much at him.
44:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was a blast.
44:06
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Dr. Adam Dorsey, thanking you for listening to SuperSight.
44:11
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know anyone who might like it, or who might benefit from listening, share it.
44:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you liked the episode, please hit subscribe.