Latest / Voices for Voices® / Denying Last Rites Over Money? Inside the Transactional Hospital | Episode 512

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Denying Last Rites Over Money? Inside the Transactional Hospital | Episode 512 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Hi everyone, it's Justin here with Voices for Voices.
• 0:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for joining.
• 0:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Whether you're watching, listening, uh, if you've been with us since the beginning, or this is your first episode, uh, thank you very much for making Voices for Voices a part of your life.
• 0:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, we are extremely grateful to have you with us.
• 0:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're gonna talk about uh another tough subject, uh, could be considered tough.
• 0:31
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh and and this has to deal with, you know, kind of the medical, the medical world, uh, you know, hospitals, uh people that are very, very ill, very sick.
• 0:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I'll start by this.
• 0:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So let's say you get a call from somebody in your family and says grandma you fill in the blank, uh, is very ill.
• 1:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um and you know, she wants to see, or he wants to see uh all relatives, friends, uh, before you know the inevitable.
• 1:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so you you rush over to the hospital or the hospice care, wherever, whoever your uh loved one, or a friend that can be a good friend, great friend.
• 1:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh it all comes down, they're human beings, so that that's what it all comes down to.
• 1:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So you show up, right?
• 1:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh again, I'm a believer, you don't have to be, uh, but this is something that actually happened, and that's why I'm bringing this up.
• 2:07
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So we're not trying to start any battles with the any churches or anything like that.
• 2:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: This is just a fact that happened.
• 2:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, and and so you show up to the facility where your your loved one friend is is at, and they request last rites, and that's something you know, Christians, Catholics uh are able to do.
• 2:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They're able to you know get last rites and get blessings that they would go to heaven and uh their work is here on earth is done.
• 2:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I again I'm not a I'm not a clergy member, so I don't I don't know all the all the all the words, but that's kind of the idea where somebody from church comes and gives they call the last rites, and let's say that you show up and say, grandma so and so has requested last rites from this priest who's been going to church for years, and the priest comes, is in the room, and he gets a text or a call from somebody back at church, and then the priest hangs up the phone and the priest says, I can't I can't give you the your last rites.
• 3:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And you know, all the all the gathered uh are kind of like, well, what do you mean you can't give the last rites?
• 4:08
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And the priest says, Well, you didn't you didn't give enough of your money over the years to the church, so I can't give you last rites, and then the and then the priest leaves.
• 4:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So this might sound far-fetched, like, yeah, Justin, you're making this up.
• 4:31
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: This is you know, some out there story.
• 4:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, yeah, it is an out there story, it actually happened, and I know this from firsthand experience of certain member that was present, and that this actually happened.
• 4:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So that's the first thing I want to address.
• 4:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That again, we're not we're not trying to pick battles at all with the churches or anybody.
• 5:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're we're just we're we're bringing straight up facts.
• 5:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And if people get upset about the facts, that's not on me or us as an organization, that's on the people that do the acts that and I have a guilty conscience.
• 5:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um that's all I'll say on that.
• 5:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So let's get over to the second topic.
• 5:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm gonna spend the majority of the show on.
• 5:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We've talked about being an advocate a long time.
• 5:36
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I know there's at least one show we did on being an advocate.
• 5:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh go for your for ourselves on the the mental health side.
• 5:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, this goes for the regular, you know, the when someone hears the word health, they think kind of the outward health of like, or the inward, like how's my heart doing, uh, my lungs, you know, my liver kidney, uh, my electrolyte levels, and uh my vitamin D, you know, that those are what usually uh would be considered just kind of the outward health.
• 6:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And we talked about being an advocate for the mental side.
• 6:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, we need to also be uh an advocate for ourselves on the outward health and the inward health of our organs, right?
• 6:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So the mental health part that really I think focuses a lot on the brain, you know, trauma, things that have occurred, haven't been um you know, kind of debriefed and shared, and uh and then we have the other the other part of health where a majority of people are like, oh, I don't have mental health.
• 7:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And it's like, well, you do, we all do less humans, we all have mental health, physical health, etc.
• 7:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So it just says in the line of you know physical health and you know, organ and and muscle health.
• 7:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I I just have to say that I'm very disappointed in a uh in a a certain local hospital uh that has treated somebody is treating somebody I know and I've visited and I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears not being in this individual not being treated like a a full human being.
• 7:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: What do I mean by that?
• 8:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I mean medical staff is treating the symptoms, not the actual cause.
• 8:09
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so they they being the the the medical folks uh and the cardiologists and I I've just floored when on this uh just this one aspect, and there's many aspects.
• 8:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So the first aspect is two different cardiologists come in.
• 8:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Neither and and and the reason uh my friend is in in the uh is in the hospital is uh heart related.
• 8:43
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And not neither of the two cardiologists, you know, check the heart, check the uh the heart, right?
• 8:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Heartbeat, you know, they got that they come in with their stethoscopes around their neck, like you know, they're ready for business, which they should be.
• 9:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That's their job.
• 9:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And not one of those cardiologists checked the heart.
• 9:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: There were no notes being taken uh these visits.
• 9:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh there the chart wasn't in the doctor's hands, which usually it has been, or they'll have accompanying staff with them that will be taking notes and and uh doing doing that.
• 9:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So I was disappointed because I mean that that's just I just I don't want to say that's a small thing, but I'm not a doctor, but I would know that if I would turn into a doctor, if I take a nap and I wake up and I'm a doctor and I have this stethoscope and I'm going to see a patient in uh you know in the the heart wing of the of the hospital, I would probably at least want to check check the the the heartbeat and and that uh so that that was one thing.
• 10:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But the big thing I want to talk about dovetails from being an advocate that we've talked about.
• 10:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So this medical staff, again, I'm I'm not gonna name names and and and that uh, but I have been given permission by the patient to share this so we can not only help him, we can make more people aware of this, that this does happen, and that we do have rights and we do have the ability to have an advocate with us for us if we have if if we're at the hospital for you know chest pains or whatever the thing or things are, uh we are afforded the ability to have an advocate that can look at the total picture.
• 11:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So that's mental health, that's physical health, that's you know, whether diet, uh you know, we talked about you know the mental health, you know, was there any has there been any trauma?
• 11:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh how's that affecting what's happening?
• 11:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I was very disappointed uh that the medical staff, I mean, pretty much the cardiologists, the nurses are fantastic, cardiologists uh they're just like pushing these procedures.
• 11:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like we gotta get this oblation.
• 11:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh, you only get the ablation.
• 12:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, we'll get I think it's called a conversion.
• 12:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I uh so they they put you under anesthesia, and they kind of they shock the heart to try to get it back in rhythm.
• 12:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so we had thought that that was a path to go down, and so we did, and he did, and it didn't work.
• 12:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They tried three different times, and then one of the the cardiologists comes in the the following day because my friend's heart rate is bouncing all over the place, which is one of the main reasons.
• 12:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Again, there's uh there's uh it's almost like a storyboard of like what what are things that uh could be affecting what's going on, then maybe we can get to uh the actual thing or things that's driving this, and that just hasn't happened until now where his power attorney stepped in, uh did some did some talking, did some research, that there are advocates available, and you're able to request one, and then they can look at everything as a whole.
• 13:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so this individual, and we we've had him on the show a couple of times.
• 13:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, he was the R word when he was growing up, uh, among a lot of other lot of other things, experiences, traumas, that he really hasn't healed from that.
• 14:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And for the medical staff to not address that, whether they're not interested in it, interested in it, or I don't know.
• 14:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I know a little bit about the business side that the more people the more patients they get admitted, it the more money a hospital makes.
• 14:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I really hope that this isn't a money-driven decision, but it it it kind of seems like it.
• 14:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So first procedure didn't work, heart rate still bouncing all over the place, you know, being more uh be more specific, uh, the the beats per minute, and they wanted to to release them, and then he said, you know, I'm not gonna go, I'm gonna go home, and then I'll end up back here.
• 15:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like, we need to look into this and find out what again, what what's the real things that are like the high heart rate is what we're seeing, but what we're not seeing again is that trauma and all the different experiences that haven't healed properly.
• 15:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Nobody's really stepped in to help help them, and that was that's very disappointing to me because again, we talk about well, obviously the advocate, but we talk about the stigma.
• 15:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: People are like, oh, everybody, you know, mental health, that's just so over.
• 15:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: No, it's not, and this is one of the reasons why there is stigma around mental health, because we have cardiologists, at least two that I'm aware of, that I've seen and heard with my own ears in the last week that haven't wanted to touch mental health that have to get into yeah, the trauma that he has gone through.
• 16:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And he even brought it up in conversation with the cardiologist, and I was there when that happened, and there was it it was very, very um concerning how the doctor responded because he really didn't answer the question.
• 16:43
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: He didn't say, We're gonna look into this, and we're gonna get you an advocate, and we're gonna uh you know look at this from the whole, you're gonna have a whole team, you know, we're gonna have you know the dietitian or nutritionist, and we're we're gonna get it everybody together, and we're gonna look at this from a holistic standpoint, instead of, well, we have you scheduled for another procedure tomorrow.
• 17:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And my friend was like, What?
• 17:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: He said, I don't want to do that, or I don't know if I want to do that, and the doctor wanted an answer like that, asked the question, wanted my friends to say, Oh, yeah, he just said, Hey, uh I'm gonna need a little bit of time to think about this, because I mean he's going under an anesthesia, and uh, you know, there's there's a chance, you know, something you know really bad could happen, uh, worse than what is going on.
• 17:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so he said that.
• 17:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: He just said, Hey doc, uh you know, I I need a leap, you know, I need a little bit of time, you know, I gotta talk to my power of attorney.
• 18:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I gotta I I just need to think about this.
• 18:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And and so my friend said, uh, you know, I'd like to stay till tomorrow, and we can get, I got this advocate that's gonna come, and we're gonna get, you know, the the whole staff together.
• 18:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Not every single person's on staff, but like the different areas, you know, all of all the functions of the body, um, that they're they're all gonna work together.
• 18:31
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So, you know, the right hand knows what the left hand's doing.
• 18:36
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And and the one question that my friend asked, he said, why you know one doctor says we got to do this, another doctor says we gotta do that, and he just says, Why, why is that?
• 18:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like, why you know why are you saying I need to do this?
• 18:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But his other one said I need to do that, and he got no response.
• 19:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Just it was well, you know, there's just so many different ways that we can approach this, and it wasn't a clear answer, and it's a good, it was a very good question, an easy question.
• 19:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You would think that everybody would be on the same page, right?
• 19:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So let's say cardiologist one goes on vacation, cardiologist two, you know, for hypothetical purposes, cardiologist two steps in while cardiologist one is on vacation, and so there's you know, certain processes and uh things they would have learned in medical school, and this is not the bash.
• 19:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, I mean it's very clear, this is not the bash, the medical field, this is not the bash, the church, and it's hard about not giving the last rights because they didn't donate enough over their lifetime, and this isn't uh about you know bashing um particular hospitals or that.
• 20:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: These are just facts that have occurred, and and so that's why we were talking about this.
• 20:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So we want to let you know if you or somebody you know, loved one, does get sick, finds themselves in hospital.
• 20:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, a lot of people just say yes to these procedures, and I'm not saying a procedure is right or wrong or anything, but you gotta give the patient enough time, a little bit of time to think about it.
• 20:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: This isn't like going out and buying uh toilet paper at the grocery store, you know, like, oh, we're out of toilet paper, we gotta go buy it.
• 21:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like, you don't really think a whole lot about that.
• 21:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're talking about like your heart, you know, being alive or passing away.
• 21:10
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like, that's a little bit different.
• 21:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Going to buy a house, go look at multiple houses.
• 21:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I like this, I don't like that.
• 21:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I like this, I don't like that, I like, I like, I don't, I don't.
• 21:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So the decision making for medical related uh medical relay procedures or you know medication, uh could be allergic to.
• 21:43
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh it's just very it is very hard to see because you when you think of hospitals, you think that they want to get people well.
• 21:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Not that they're treating you as a tran you or me as a or anybody else at as a transaction of okay well we maximize we got you know three procedures out of them um and so now they're home so let's bring you know bring that other person from the emergency room get them a bed and then we'll do the procedures and and and so i i would just caution anybody any medical staff any patient to say it's it's okay like we need to slow down and not expect people to make a decision in literally like five seconds and and because my friend won wants to take the holistic approach and found out through his power of attorney and they're researching that there are advocates at the hospital or at least at this specific hospital and so nobody told them they had to find it out on their own and I don't like seeing anybody suffer at all whether it's a friend or not but to be in the hospital for going on a week and it being like five and a half six days in to a hospital stay with no good answer of why some you know why things are happening is because they're not looking at the whole picture.
• 23:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They're not bringing everybody together that the cardiologist is like oh I didn't know about this so let's maybe try something different and I would like to see that approach for my friend or whether they're not my friend or whether they're my relative or not I know that there are advocates that do this.
• 24:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I didn't know that there were so now I I've learned something so down the road you know heaven forbid I I I end up in the hospital I'm able to have an advocate for me and we can look at everything around we can look at the physical health the mental health the trauma uh you know the when somebody's abused that doesn't go away I mean time may go time may go by but that doesn't go away and if somebody that's 70 years old or 60 or 50 or 40 whatever the age is if they haven't had a proper chance to dig into that because my friend is in constant fight or flight mode or flight and fight mode fight or flight mode uh I don't know I've heard of both ways so you get the idea so his body is amped up because it just is because these things you know being abused when he was growing up and all these different things that happen uh seeing people die in front of like there's just a lot of things that nobody's really take taking a like to not liking the situation but taking a like to to be an advocate for him and whether it's a boy a girl a man a woman let this show today when you're watching and you're listening let this be a lesson for you and I as patients some point maybe hopefully not and let this be a little bit of a lesson for the doctors a little better bedside manner if the heart is what we're looking at and we come for a visit and we don't even check the heart with our stethoscope but we got it around our neck why do you have it around your neck if you're not going to use it I mean come on this isn't like if I can recognize this stuff anybody can and then I'll leave leave you with this last last parting thought that or last parting event that happened so my friend I just happened to be on the phone with him and another cardiologist came in and so he put like kind of put the phone because it's one of the old fashioned phones it's you know corded and it's connected to the wall and all that so he just kind of like set the phone down a little bit cardiologist comes in and I can hear the conversation back and forth and he's allowed me to share this information so um and I haven't given names uh he doesn't mind with his name uh but I haven't given you know the doctors' names or the the hospital or what church didn't give the last rights because they didn't person didn't donate uh or tithe enough over their lifetime so as I'm hearing this conversation on the phone yesterday one thing really got me and my friend really even more disappointed and that was when my friend says I'm gonna stay another night and the doctor says we're gonna do the same procedure we did you know a couple days ago we're gonna do that tomorrow come to learn that this procedure you might not know if it actually worked for a period of time I think it was maybe a month or so like it didn't so it didn't work the first time but I guess there's a period of time where it it can work its way through the system and get the heart back in rhythm that's kind of the the basic version that I can give I know it's all confusing.
• 29:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So on the phone and my friend says to the doctor who didn't check his heart um all right well I'm gonna need a couple I'm gonna need a couple minutes or you know to consult with my power of attorney and and I just need to think about it.
• 29:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're talking about our heart my heart and he's like I don't know if I want to do that and then the doctor said something like that he would be discharged and so he would be released because he's saying well I'm I'm not gonna do the I don't want to do the procedure that you have me scheduled for tomorrow doc and uh and what the doctor said he said well this isn't a hotel you can't just stay here you know as long as you want and and my friend so he goes I'm not trying I'm not treating this like a hotel I want to be treated like a whole person and so I now have an advocate and I want everybody I want I want I want everybody to talk to each other so like I said earlier so the left hand knows what the right hand's doing and vice versa and so it makes sense to ever everybody there's a consensus uh that you know the the the the combined functional staff would all be on the same page and if they weren't then they could share they could debate whatever to get to an agreement that this is probably the best at this point or maybe that is the best at this point or there's not really a good option so again this isn't to bash any specific church at all it's the situation happened.
• 31:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I can just imagine my loved one when my dad was passing and and we were luckily we were able to do the hospice at home and we were able to get the priest to do the last rites but of that situation where the person wanted the last rites got a hold of the priest or the pastor or what the clergy person clergy person that does that uh and they say it comes back the money that come on can we just be human beings for a minute I mean we should be able to be human beings for more than a minute it just made me just sick thinking about that and then all the the events that I I I talked about since with my friend in a hospital and a staff and so we're we're hoping and praying that this advocate is able to get the right doctors and people that they can come together they can talk amongst themselves be on the same page of like oh did you know you know that he has this and that and this trauma and and like oh no I didn't like oh I'm just treating the fact that he has a high heart we're just trying to lower the heart heart right well if you know well that's all well and good but if you don't handle the trauma he's gonna he's gonna go back into that fight or flight mode or light or fight mode however that's said uh said it multiple ways but in essence the body's you know kind of on edge look looking around and um like something might might happen maybe it doesn't but that's that's that's the simplest way I can really share that so be an advocate for yourself be an advocate for somebody else as well as yourself because that might be what helps heal even if just for a little bit help heal you a loved one friend a co-worker so just know that you're able to if you're in a hospital setting there are advocates if you want the holistic which is all the functional areas you want them to talk together and you want them to kind of you know come basically come come to your room your your hospital room then you can watch and listen and ask and so you feel a little more comfortable that might lower stress just by that happening so be an advocate for yourself mental health wise but also be an advocate physical health wise and total total health wise thank you for joining us thank you for watching listening here in the United States or abroad if you can give us a thumbs up like follow subscribe share repost reshare we'd appreciate that if you reach out to 25 contacts on your phone and share our podcast with them we would greatly appreciate that and we want to welcome not only individuals who are already a part of the Voices for Voices family but who are new to the Voices for Voices family welcome and we will talk to you and see you very very very soon bye for now.