Latest / Pod Therapy / #345: Sponsoring Therapy, Therapist struggling financially, cutting off addicted daughter

Transcript

#345: Sponsoring Therapy, Therapist struggling financially, cutting off addicted daughter · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I wasn't listening and let you want girls
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: what girls? And men?
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Wo men, we could use a man like our But again.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: This episode has made possible by our therapy partner's dirty
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: be and pickets will not.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Dare you. This is pot therapy.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I remember there's a day when we try to keep
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: this like, hey, Nick, don't.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Eat on the show. That's really annoying.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And meanwhile he talks over the entire thing. This is
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: pot therapy.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: We're in the three hundreds, bro, nobody gets this ship anymore.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: If they're here, they know what they're in. Real people,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: real questions. Therapist. Thank you, it's forgetting pot therapy dot net.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: The thing was set so upset, you know, I think
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: you need some therapy. Whitney, can you can you calm
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: him down?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Jesus Nick, please calm down. Ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: We are on supervise uh patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: You can hear a very robust conversation about ship. I
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: don't remember anymore well. I remember it being really good.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: It was the heat is bad.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: There was no structure to that Patreon. We talked about everything.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Classic pod therapy. Before Whitney showed up, it was only
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: naturaleg hung her potpourri everywhere and started watching litter candles. Yeah,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: fucking lavender. Yeah. Remember we were clean laundry. I remember
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: we were just dudes. Yeah, back in the day. You know,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: say we talked about cooking meat. Yeah, Whitney, driving boats
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: and ship's right, and surviving the heat like cavemen. Now
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: we're just we're just here and we're allowsy with badge
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: of silk. You know, she all over the place. She
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: made us soft. Now we're talking about feelings and ship
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I guess we kind of always did that. That's true.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a therapy show. But whatever. Whitney's out
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: here today, but we'll make it work. Did he buy
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: write in?
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Questions with questions? Yeah, we have questions. Oh neat question Yeah,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: well you distracted me.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: We got some great questions for today's show. The first
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: one becoming a therapy accountability buddy from our therap partner Picket. Hey, hey, hey, guys,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: if you.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Ever think about being a their partner, I get you
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: to the front of the line with the question always
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: front the line. Absolutely, Yeah, they have the direct bat
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: signal they always get with that one. You write a letter,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: it goes on the show top shelf.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Hey guys, I'm still working on the backlog very slowly.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I'm on episode sorry about that.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's funny because Pickett will be in the Discord and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: then Pickett like just recently hit the COVID episodes and
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: so uh messaged or didn't message me but posted it
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: onto Uh like I have a channel on the Discord
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: and was like, Hey, Jim, whatever happened all the COVID
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: masks that people sent you like that had Dix all
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: from you? Just remember that. But yeah, I think it
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: was brand Meyer who sent us a bunch of Dick masks.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, yeah, I wore those for a little while.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, eventually all masks expired except for Nicks because
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: he wore one for all of COVID. You wore a
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: T shirt on your face, settled out? I did?
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, touche. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm still
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: working on the backlog very slowly. I'm on episode one
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: forty now. So I'm not sure if this kind of
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: situation or question has been presented before, but I have
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: a real life situation that I'm going through in thought
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: it might be a good one for the show. We
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: have a friend that we have been trying to get
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: to go to therapy for a long time. He has
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a tendency to put way too much weight on how
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: people perceive him, to the point where I was worried
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: about his safety because he had convinced himself that his
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: best friend hated his guts and therefore he's just a
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: piece of garbage person and doesn't have any friends anyway,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: and he'll never have a significant other because he's just
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: such garbage and basically said that he didn't see the
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: point of living anymore. He'll spiral like that for a while,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: and during that time he'll be quick to anger, constantly
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: bugging his friends for validation and confirmation that they're still
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: friends with him, and other kinds of defense and coping mechanisms.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Context out of the way. He's not able to afford therapy,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: so we're kind of sponsoring him aka paying for the
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: sessions so that he's able to get the process going
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: and focus on the therapy without having to worry about
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the price tag. We know that he has trouble keeping
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: to a new habit, especially one that's going to make
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: him feel so vulnerable and wanted to see how bad
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: it would be to ask the therapist to be included
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: in the first session to help him set goals, and
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: then to see if the therapist is willing to give
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: regular updates. That would really just be if he's attending
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: the sessions regularly or not. I know that's a lot,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: and feel free to just email me back or DM
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: me on the discord. That also works if this has
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: already been covered, or if it's too much for the show.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Thanks guys, looking forward to getting caught up lmao picking
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: peg yet.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, first off, that's very kind of you to
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, fucking yes, Human of the Year. I mean
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: sponsoring your friend.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: People would going through that, they would probably just say, like, God,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: this is a lot, I don't want to deal with
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: this right now, and they would just kind of check out. Yeah,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So the fact that you all are willing to, you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: sponsor him and pay his way.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Through this super kind. I hope he sees.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: That, and I hope he recognizes, you know, the effort
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: that you all are putting.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Through that and probably can't because right now he's in
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: the grip of what sounds like depression and a lot
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: of self hatred. Spirals and people that are going through
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: that are often irritable, especially if they are, you know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: kind of male. A male symptom of depression is often
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: irritability and anger. And so if your friend lacks gratitude,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: just know that Nick and I and Jacob, who is
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: no longer with us, uh, God rest his soul, we
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: at least admire you.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jacob wants to use the restroom. But okay, so
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: you want to be involved in his therapy. So it
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: kind of sounds like this hasn't actually started yet, right
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: because you said you want to be involved in the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: first session. I think that's kind of up to him,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, if that's something that I guess
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: at first, I would kind of want to clarify, want
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you to clarify kind of what you hope to get
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: out of that. If it is just you know, getting
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: regular updates as far as attendance, Yeah, I think that's fair,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: given that you're paying for them. I agree, And I
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: don't think that's too much to offer or too much
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: to to to ask. Now when he goes there, he
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: would still have to if the therapist is going to
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: be giving you any information, he'd still have to sign
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a release of information. Yeah, so that the therapist can
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: communicate this information to you even if you are paying
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: for it, correct, And that's probably still going to have
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: to happen.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Well, you'd also get receipts, and like, sometimes that is
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: your best attendance record, is the therapist is billing you,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: and so it will say this is for a no
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: show session or a cancel session, or a session on
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: this date, And sometimes that's your attendance record right there.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: If you have a credit card on file and you're
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: going to get the receipt.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Even then I'm wondering if there'd still have to be
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a release of information for that.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, if somebody else is putting the card on file, fundamentally,
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: I so, okay, the way I run my practice, I've
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: had situations where somebody has reached out and said, hey,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: this is my family member. I will be paying for them,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: and I'll say it's fine, let's go ahead and get
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: a card on file and all that stuff. And then
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: whenever the family member shows up and I do the intake,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: I'll say, hey, are you aware that so and so
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: has offered to finance you and they'll be yeah, of
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: course I'm aware of time. I'm here, great, and I'll
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: let them know. The way my system works is the
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: other person's card is going to get popped. They will
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: see that charge. So you need to be aware that
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: they are going to have an idea of when your
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: sessions are and you know that you attended them. Like
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: that is not going to be secret because a transaction
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: has occurred and you know, I clarify it with the person.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean is that legally they have to
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: sign off on. That's the question.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So technically information is kind of protected via HIPPA, but
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: HIPPA is really more designed for insurance.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: HIPPA has an exception for financiers if there's third party payers,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: so like if you have an EAP an insurance or
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: a nonprofit body or something that is covering your cost,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: like victims of crime in Las Vegas. You don't need
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: an ROI for victims of crime.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: But just build information.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, so you don't need the legal release and
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: HIPPA has a caveat for that that it says third
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: party financiers are exempt from.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's all third party.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Right, But I thought, and tell me if I'm wrong.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I thought that if a parent, say, a parent has
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: insurance for their teenage child, and the teenage child goes
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: to any kind of doctor, yeah, I thought that the
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: doctor could not release the information about that teenage child
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to the parent whose insurance they are covered by. Actually,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: if it's a teenager, the doctor can and will immediately
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: release all records to the parent. The parent is the
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: legal going so just minor doesn't matter. Yeah, okay.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: In this case, Pickett is sponsoring what we assume as
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: an adult. It's a friend, and so like I think
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: that Picket will get so okay. There's two ways to
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: approach this. So number one, Nick and I are in agreement.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with asking for attendance records. No, there's
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: two ways to acquire that. Either A you just see
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the charge on your card and it, in my opinion,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: it is your The therapist in question may want some
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: paperwork charge or signed out. I don't suspect they will
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: because it's not that common, and no true PHI is
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: being transacted in that situation. A card is being billed
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: without any further information. So as long as you're not
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: going to prosecute a fraud charge. The therapist doesn't give
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: a fuck, And I don't know that anything needs to
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: be signed off for that because no PHI is being transferred,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: like unless the receipt is being sent to you and
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: in which case it doesn't even need to be. So
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: that's option A to get attendance confirmation. Option B is
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: an ROI if you want to be safe about it,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: because I think Nick's getting some heart burned about this.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the concern that's being released, not if it's
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: just a charge no attendance, but there's.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: No name, there's nothing there. It's a charge.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but that charge, So who's the personal.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Health information like the if pH I sends or personal
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: health information? What personal identifier of health has been extracted
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: from a you go under your bad.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah I know, I don't I know. Yeah, I know.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I know. It's it's nitpicky, But I'm with you as
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: attendance in the program. Okay. It would be the same
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: way as if if someone comes to me and I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: send a letter or any kind of notification that this
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: person met with me. Yeah, they know who I am,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: they know what I do. Yeah, okay, this person is
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: attending that is information you're.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Announcing to one person. Yeah, this other person attended a session.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I'll stop short of saying it would be hippo violation.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: That's a bridge too far from me. I don't think
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it is, and Nick can disagree. I don't see in
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the letter of the lone. I just had to review
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: this with my students the other day. And even if
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: there was an angle of phi that really qualifies as
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: definitional phi is being transferred, there is a provision in
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the statement that says for finances, this doesn't matter. So
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: like if a copay card is being put on file
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: and I'm saying, you know what, I've got your sessions, buddy,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: go see your doctor. I'm putting my debit card to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: swipe for your copays. There's not a conflict now, like
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the doctor's office doesn't stop doing business and has to
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: do x paperwork. But if you want to go extra safe,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: path number two is, and again this is not unreasonable.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Is you can tell this therapist or your friend. I
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: would just like a limited release of information only for
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: attendance confirmation. If I ask, that is it, And that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: is very limited. And there's a lot I've gotten a
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: lot of rois for that because we'll have like people
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: on parole, or people that are being sent by their
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: job as a requirement, or people that are, you know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: having some kind of legal issue. And it's very common
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: that the judge will request attendance record and I will
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: ask the patient, Okay, I need you to sign this
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: piece of paper that says I have permission only to
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: disclose your attendance and therapy, not treatment, not presenting problem,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: not what was talked about. And that's kind of where
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: i'd want you to go. Pick it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: The idea that you would show up in the first
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: session and kind of help chart a course and like
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: give information to the therapist. That's not wrong thinking that
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: that's a good idea. It's not necessary because in the beginning,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I just want your friend to go and say whatever
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: they choose to say and present whatever they choose to
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: present as the problem, and hopefully the therapist helps crack
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: that open over time to the point where your friend
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: can start kind of being more clear and opening up
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: more about what their experiences are. Down the road, you
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: could say, hey, friend, I want to continue to support
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: you in this. You can absolutely say no to this request.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It will not bother me.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I will continue to pay for your therapy, but if
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: you would ever like me to come be a guest
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: in a future session, I'd love to just be your
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: friend and learn from your therapist how I can better
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: support you. And that's a great pitch because then your
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: friend are they okay? You know that that sounds benign.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: And then you show up and the therapist says, okay,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: thanks for coming, supportive friend, let me tell you a
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: little bit about what's going on and how I think
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: you can be helpful to your friend. They might give
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: you some information about how support somebody with depression. But
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: then you can also say, great, while i'm here, can
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I share some observations that I've made and just give
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: that information to you and the therapist. Will you just
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: say yeah, sure, as long as your friends are not
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: upset about that, that's great, and you just add some
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: notes and be like, yeah, sometimes they notice to get
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: a little irritable. Somebody's notice to get really down on themselves.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: They have low self esteem, they kind of get spirally,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: and things that none of us really love them when
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: we really do, and just those are the things I've noticed,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: and like, the therapist probably been great. Thank you, for
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the notes. Man, that's awesome, and you can do that
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: down the road. Like, I don't recommend showing up on
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: session one for that again, because I kind of want
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: your friend to just present themselves in whatever their truth is.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: And therapists are used to being lied to. A lot
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: of people are afraid that, like, oh, if you just
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: go to this therapist without somebody there to like tell
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: the truth, you're gonna tell the therapist that you're you
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: don't know why you're there and it's all very nebulous
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: and you know something unclear, and then you're afraid that,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: like your friend is not going to attack the problem.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: But that is the level at which they are ready
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: to talk about the problem, and the therapist knows to
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: meet that person there and to work from that location.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: So that would be my encourage me, Yes to attendance.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, there's paperwork that can be filled out, but I'd
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: probably be reluctant to have you show up at the
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: intake session. My friend is worried that I never wear pants.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what's up, that's what they're worried about therapy. I'm
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: just here. I'm just here because they want me to
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: be here. Yeah, I'm just here so I don't get
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: fined Marshaun lynching it. Yeah, I'm here as though I
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: don't get fine. Yeah, so that's probably my advice on that,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, the same page or you would you say, no,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: don't you don't think it's okay to ask for the attendance.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's fine. I mean, I mean at
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, like I kind of get
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: your frustration here, Pickett as far as like there is
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: a sense of fear that you're kind of hoping that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: his attendance or I think it's him. Yeah, ye, his
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: attendance in this is going to focus on the things
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that you've identified as being the problem. And not to
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: say that you're wrong about that. You're probably right about
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: all of that. And there is a big fear, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's the same fear that most loved ones
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: have when some a friend or a loved one goes
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: into therapy, which is like, I don't know what's happening
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: in these sessions, and it really kind of makes me
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: nervous that they're going to be going to these sessions,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and now I'm paying for these sessions, and what if
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: he never brings up the things that are really the problem,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: and the therapist doesn't know what's going on with any
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: of this. There's Yeah, I empathize completely with any anxiety
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that you may have over that. The downside I think
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to that is, unfortunately it's it's his therapy, even though
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you're paying for it, it is his and it really
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: is up to him how much he's willing to let
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you be involved. Yeah, And I mean I would hate
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to also kind of get to a point where you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it becomes something like, you know, well, I'm paying for this,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: so if I can't go to all your sessions, then
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to pay for it. Yeah, that would
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: be right, Yeah, I mean, and that's well within your right. Yeah,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: as the person writing the check, that's well within your
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: right to do. I don't know as if it'd be
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: beneficial for him. I don't think it'd be beneficial for you.
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: But but paying for therapy, whether you are the person
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: received the therapy or paying for therapy for someone else,
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: paying for therapy, you are innately putting your trust in
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: the therapist, yes, and you're putting your trust in that
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: process of the therapy with that professional. And so I mean,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: if you are paying for therapy, for someone else, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: would suggest just thinking of it as I am putting
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: my trust in this process. I'm putting my trust in
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: this therapist, and they are going to go through the process,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: They're going to do the work.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to understand all of it. I may
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: or may not agree with every single step, but that
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: is where I'm putting my trust, and that's where that
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: has to be.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: I love that, and you know you're absolutely right, Jacob,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: because this actually goes back to what Nick was saying.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Another component of this two picket is that when your
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: friend presents the therapist, the therapist is sizing up what
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: their stage of changes. How aware are they of their
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: own problems, how willing are they to change those problems.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: And even if that starts with them showing up to
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the therapist and not even addressing the elephant in their room,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: that isn't necessarily wrong because if they're in that contemplation
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: or pre contemplation stage of change, the therapist needs to
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: find them there and we need to organically help them
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: get further along, otherwise the change won't stick. So the
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: good news is you're not doing anything wrong. Even if
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: your friend takes the scenic route now having said that,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: nobody has infinite funds. People want to get a return
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: on investment, and that is okay. People want health to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: come in a timely manner. I would recommend if you
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: are going to sponsor a friend or a family member,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: and this is now to the general audience, if you're
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: ever going to sponsor somebody, I really recommend that being
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: something that you say, kind of like an insurance does,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I will be sponsoring X number of sessions, so a
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: healthy number if you want to be on the more
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: generous side, I think a generous first number is to say,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: I'm going to sponsor a season of the calendar, so
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: twelve sessions, three months, once a week sessions. I'm going
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: to sponsor twelve sessions, letting your friend know that, letting
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the therapist know that. That way both of them can
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: work with a purpose and try to make that as
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: meaningful as possible and know that that is sponsored. Then
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: what I would do is toward the end of that,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I would have a check in with my friend and
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I would ask, how has this been going for you?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: And if you decide they're making some progress, I don't
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: want to necessarily disrupt this what you can always do
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: at that point is now that you're twelve sessions deep,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: now contact the therapist again and say, hey, are you
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: willing to do some kind of sliding scales that I
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: can continue this sponsorship for my friend? That is not
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: an unreasonable conversation. Yeah, that is a normal thing to ask,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: And in this situation, I think the therapists are I've
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: had this happen. I've had people reach out to me
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: and say I'd like to sponsor so and so I'll
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: be taking care of them, and then we go along,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: and then eventually I've had that friend there you go,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: and they've reached back out to me. Dad said, Hey,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: you know I'm sponsoring this person, You've been working this person. Uh,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: would you be willing to help make this financially easier
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: for me? And I think most therapists respond the way
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I did in that situation, which is like, you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I'm honestly so inspired that you're doing this for some
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: human that I kind of want to be able to
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: make this possible for you. And so if I have
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: the time on my calendar, if it's not a conflict,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: then yes, you know, I will be able to open
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: up that time. And I'll take a haircut on this
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: so that we can jointly make this project continue. And
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: if I feel like this patient's making credible progress and
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: they're invested in this, the stars aligned, that's fine. So
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: anyway I would encourage that kind of method picket. That way,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: there's a little bit of a check in accountability. It's
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: not just an open, you know, endless blank check. I
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: don't think that will be good. I think it could
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: lead to resentment. I think it can lead to you
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: seeking for accountability. I think a more timely manner is
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: to say I'm going to sponsor this for three months,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: or I'm going to sponsor twelve sessions, and you can
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: space those out as much as you want. My friend,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: if you want to go once a month, that's your prerogative.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: At least it's something I want to go once every
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: other week and make this a six month thing. Great,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I'm with you. There's a lot of ways to slice it,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: but that that would be the way that I would
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: do it. And then toward the end of that engagement,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I would then if I chose to continue to extend it,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: that's when I would check in with a therapists and say, hey,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: can you help me make this sustainable a little bit,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Let's go for another year or whatever. And I think
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: a lot of therapists will say, yes, this is a
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: unique project. I'm excited for this. I like what you're
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: doing and I want to help you do that. Let's
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: make that possible. So that would be my guess. I
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: think that would be possible. That's my last thought on it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Anyway.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's if you're paying for twelve sessions,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: that's very generous. I think that's more than what a
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: lot of insurance companies and EAPs would pay for.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I do like the idea of setting some
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: kind of like limit, like here, I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: help you out this much, and then from therefully you
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: can get on your feet and you know, then we
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: can renegotiate or something.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred. Anyway, thank you Pikett.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: We appreciate you sponsoring our show as well and making
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: therapy more available to everybody, and love hearing the story.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Man. But you know, don't don't strap yourself to this
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: project forever.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: That can become bad for you and your relationship and
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: your mental health. I don't want that for you, so
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: please make sure that you're still putting yourself first even
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: while you're trying to be kind to others. And thank
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: you for supporting mental health that we bring in this program,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and also the mentalth to your friend. We're gonna take
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: quick break and when we come back, we're discussing a
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: therapist struggling to make it. You're listening to pod therapy.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Ben Don, Malia,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Samantha Cone. It's under Kruger, Falcon Scoops,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Lurpe Kaya, Motherfucker, and Sandra mcwoffle. And if you would
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: like to sponsor the show, become a therapiter, start petreon
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: dot com slash therapy.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I just realized that he got fired from this show.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Nobody would know about it because we would just keep
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: doing bits and people would be like, Oh, she's just out,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: she's on hiatus. Yeah about our fine. Yeah. I think
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: we could run it for a while. I feel like
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: we get at least two months.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I'll bet you we would run it long enough to
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: where we would get bored and stop doing it, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: it will have been long enough that the audience no
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: longer cares right, like, they're like, oh, yeah, they had
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: this chick Whitney for like a year and a half
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and then god knows what happened.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You just call him Mercedes.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: We got trivia, going back to trivia from Emma Olympics trivia,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: which is probably still time.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Could did you guys catch the NBA finals or not?
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: The men's basketball gold.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: The men's and women's I got the fantastic I thought
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the last the women's they almost tied it up. France
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: almost tied it up at the very end, made the basket,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: but her foot was on the line, so there were
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: three points down.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: France put the shot up, made the shot and their
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: foot was on the line. Who was France again? US?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, we we got US versus France and both
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: men's and women's first time ever. Wow, this first time
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: ever that that the men's and women's basketball finals were
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the two.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: In USA gold bol Ye, oh my goodness, that's fantastic.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The men's game was maybe one of the best moments.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Semi final game against Serbia was one of the best
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: basketball games I've ever seen in my life. Wow. And
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the men's final game against France was fantastic. It wasn't
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: as good as the Serbian gay, but it was fantastic.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't very well. France fought their asses off.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: But Steph Curry, dude, he just.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: It turns out Steph Curry is really good at basketball
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and just does whatever he wants. Like the final shot
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: from Steph Curry his like fourth three point over the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: two defenders.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: There were two defenders while Lebron James and Kevin Durant
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: stand completely unguarded their thumbs tying their shoes. He's got
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: it crazy. Anyway, I didn't see, but I did catch
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: the breaking. Oh yeah, the men's breaking.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: It was great. Yeah, break day break, Oh okay.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: No one in the Olympics had a better time.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: They were just having fun, I would argue the surfers.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah maybe maybe maybe they did just fine.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, here we're going.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Because it was in like a French Polynesia or something
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: like that where they had to do it. I forget
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: where it was exactly, but French Polynesia. But yeah, the
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: where they were I believe was part of French Polynesia.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And also Colin jost One basically the the NBC lottery
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: to be the correspondent for the surfing competition. Awesome for him,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: that's great. Oh yeah, just good stuff. Yeah, I mean
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: they said it, they said it was like that. I'm
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: sure that somebody made the decision at some point he's going,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: but yeah, it was. It was a great choice.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's yes, that's a great event for him to do.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And did he take it seriously?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: No, No, we don't want you to. Did he take
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: it as seriously as I wanted him to?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. Which Olympic sports allows both men and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: women to compete directly against each other in the same events.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, A sailing, B, equestrian, C, shooting or
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: D all of the above?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: So I don't think they've got men and women's sailing.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. One's definitely in.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a question, I believe, A question.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I know is in.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's all of the above.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I think it is two.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm wanting all the above only because the questrian
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: and shooting, I don't think so.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: For sailing.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I feel like I've seen events that are women's sailing,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and I think it does matter because you need that
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: body weight to write the ship and turn it I'm
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: going to go with.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: With these fat ladies. The way they end the opera, yeah,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: is the same way they turned the fucking boat. That's right.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go shooting. I feel like that is gonna
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: be everybody free for all. Okay, nobody cares.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I'm all of the above, I'm all the above two
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and it is all of the above.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Damn it.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm a sexist. I think that's what we just learned.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did in twenty twelve, which comedian famously learned
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: to paffe pi a F F E paffee on his show,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: bringing attention to Olympic dressage. Jimmy Fallon, John Stewart, Stephen Colbert,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Conan O'Brien.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I'll take Colbert. I feel like I remember Colbert relentlessly
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: shitting on Mitt Romney for this.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I think he did it. Okay, this feels like Fallen
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to me. Oh, I was gonna say it feels like Conan.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: But Conan did he have a show? Well? And is
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: there a horse large enough? He's a talk dude. I'm
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: gonna stick with Conan, all right, you guys gonna stick
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: with yours.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I'm going bear.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I'll take Fallon, Stephen Colbert.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Way to be there for me.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Colbert, What unusual event was included in the early modern
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Olympics but is no longer part of the games. Tug
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: of war? Fire fighting? She's rolling log rolling?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I want all of those elis that's in there.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That was the original Greek sport. Yeah, they knew how
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: to play. I'm gonna go tug of war. That seems
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: very uh Olympic, very But what were they again? Of war? Firefighting?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: She's rolling? Log rolling? Log rolling? Wait?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: What was the question?
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Which unusual event was included in the early modern Olympics
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: but is no longer part of the games? Oh so
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: early modern? It's not like ancient Like that'd be like.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: They rebooted it in like the night or something.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: All of those could work.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: He's been going for like one hundred log rolling. That
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: seems so good.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's gonna be cheese. I'm gonna go
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: fire fighting just to keep it interesting.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: What I think. I hope it's firefighting. They set a
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: fire relevant, what country puts it out first? It's relevant.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I think that's how the Chicago fire happened.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: That's training for the Olympics.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Uh, what's yours firefighting. It is of war, all right,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: So there we go.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: That does feel correct, like of all of them, and
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: honestly is a pretty base thing it is. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: I kind of wish that was still going on. Honestly,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I'd have been really happy with that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: So that's the end of that round. That's it, all right.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: So scores, gym's got a goose egg?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I think no, I got the Colbert one. Yeah, so
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: we're there's all single pointers, so I think I think
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: it's got two, and you and I both have one.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: That sounds that sounds competitive. I like this second question
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: of the night. A therapy bist struggling to make it
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: from anonymous. I think, no, Actually it's from Katrinka. Sometimes
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: I just write anonymous because I don't care a therapist
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: struggling to make it. Hello, you fucking fantastic.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I care about you, Yes, Jacob.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Does I love, love love your podcast. My bladder and
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: undergarments at times don't because of the random tangents you
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: go on. But that is for a medical podcast to
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: figure out. I'm in my third year Mormon podcast. Depending
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: on the undergarment, depending upon if their full body good call,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: I'm in my third year of practice, but first month
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: as a LPCC as I recently got licensed on July first.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Congratulations. However, what's lpp lp c C, lppps pps.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: So I think they finished clinical counsel I think that's it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: They finish their learners permit the licensed.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Every state, not every state, but a lot of these
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: states have like licenses that are perticular to their state.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Okay they name them.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like so like LMHCS is a licensed mental health counselor,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: like Iowa had that, Nevada doesn't. Some states do, some
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: states don't. But there's always like any equivalent. Okay, so
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that's why I don't know for sure what LPCC is, but.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something something along those lines.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel very confident I understand it is.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of states do.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: LPCC is the fully licensed and LPC is like the
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: junior license. So anyway, I think Katrinka just finished up
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: and got officially fully licensed.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Congratulations. However, pay sucks donkey both last there's that uh
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: pay sunk's pay sucks donkey balls. As you may know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I'm a single mother of three carnivorous teens, with one
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: going to college this fall for pre med. My BMI says,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I'm way too curvacious for stripping and only fans can
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I agree find Yeah, you you deeply misunderstand how only
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: fans works. You need to pot. Therapy guys at gmail
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: dot dot dot com will be the judges. Send it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: We want to know, we want to help you. We
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: willieve in helping single moms lunch businesses. That's right, Yeah,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: but way too cervices for stripping, and my only fans
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: can identify me, so I can't make extra money there.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I tried having a weekend jattitude. I tried having a
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: weekend job, but with working forty to fifty hours a
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: week and being a single mom, I hated myself and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: got severely depressed, and I quit my job. I refocused
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: at work to where I enjoy it seventy percent of
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the time. I'm just starting to figure out my passions,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: but all of the trainings are out of pocket. I'm
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: frustrated with the lack of support at my work and
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: outside in the therapy community. Any words of advice would
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: be greatly appreciated, as I am tired of gaining stress
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: weight as I eat peanut butter M and MS for
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: my protein sources of dah, sincerely, Katrinka. Dude, peanut butter
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: eminem's are far and away the best eminems.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: That's how I discovered I was allergic to peanuts.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Just those things down, Yeah, because.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: They were my favorite candy. And when I was really stressed,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: one of my employees would always bring in peanut butter eminems.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and so I was just eating them like crazy.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't feel like he would bring peanut butter eminem.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: No, he wouldn't guarantee I didn't.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Apparently he didn't try to kill you. Okay.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they ended up going to the doctor getting
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: like steroid shots a few times, and then at some
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: point the doctor's like, look, I could we just can't
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: continue doing the shots, like you have to figure out
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: what you're actually allergic to.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Keep covering them. Yeah, what are you talking about? I've
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: never been so fucking ribbed.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's peanut butter eminem's is number one. Number
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: two pretzel eminems.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Your your credibility is out out the window. Instance if
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: they're very good. Number two eminem pretzellemonim Is that the
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: crunch are you talking about?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I like the pretzelmon And number three is just playing.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I go, Okay, I go peanut butter, pretzel Eminem's eminem
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: minis all right, I'm gonna tell you the actual lord.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: All right, correct me. Number one regular Eminem's with the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: dark chocolate, So get rid of the chocolate. You put
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: the dark chocolate in there, and you take those, put
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: those in the freezer. Oh, come on, that's not fair yourself.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: And then close second for me, close second, okay, peanut
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: butter Eminem Okay, okay, goings in dark chocolate Eminim first,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: peanut butter Eminem second, Yeah, pretzel Eminem eighth. What is third?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but pretzelm Do you like almond Eminem's
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: I do? Oh, I do like. Okay, if you get
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: number three cookie Reese's peanut butter cups, you go fuck yourself.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Those are always good. Yeah.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: If I ever see a cookie in the store and
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: it's like you can choose between chocolate chip or Eminem's
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: always Eminem's all right as a cookie?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Is that not your go? Sometimes it's Sometimes it's it's
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: like the chocolate or the chocolate chunk or something like that. Okay,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at Eminem.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Cookie monster cookie.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Monster cookie is a monster cookie. Yeah, it's a cookie
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: just on top of a Monster Energy drink. Must you
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: take a Monster Energy drink? Yeah, and put a cookie
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: on top of it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: It's a can of Monster Energy drink filled with cookie though.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, you squeeze it out toothpaste tube style, you roll.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of dedication. You want that? Yeah,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: so bad? The red bull overwhelms the cooks in your
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: stomach and they just fight it out and just sit
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: there choke. You will have a heart attack, all right,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: or your money back.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: New fully licensed therapist, trying to hold it together, stressed
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: with the job, feeling unsupported, a little underfinanced as a
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: single parent as well, and trying to keep it together.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I'll just start by saying, fucking good on you, oh
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: single parent, doing the work, putting in the hours. Bravo,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: kudos all those things to you. You're fucking You've got
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: a tough road there and you're just doing it. Always
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: proud of you. I love you for doing that. On you,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: have you tried starving your kids so you can say
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: so much money by just not giving them food?
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: It turns out if you don't the government will take
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: them and feed them.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: So yeah, they'll take real good care of them.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: It's free. I'm not saying good. But if they put
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you in houses like Nick, yeah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Your kids could be adopted by Nick and be fed
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: ramen twice a day.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I I k Trinka. I feel for you
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: on this one. It really sucks because it's such an
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: important job and it is just not valued by society
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: in the sense of like adequate compensation for the amount
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: of training that you have to go through. What you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: actually get in the end is really terrible. I mean
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: it's you know, I compare it like I'm a social worker,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: so like I get it. Social workers, school teachers, all
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: kind of the same thing, where it's like you have
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to love what you do and you have to find
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: meaning internally to kind of keep you going because it's
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: definitely not for the money. So a couple of things
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I would point out. So you just got licensed, okay,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: so that's brand new, and I don't know what your
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: area looks like. If there's an opportunity now where you
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: can see that you're not going to be stuck in
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the situation forever, Like, is there a way that you
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: can advance with in your own organization, or if you
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: get enough training, can you leave to find another higher
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: paying job someplace else. I'm not sure really what's in
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: your area, But that's initially what I would look at
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: is I would look at, Okay, I'm sacrificing now, but
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: what's down the road? Is there something coming soon that
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I can then jump to, Because if that's the case,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: then it's just, you know, then it's just a matter
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: of you know, managing your finances as best you can
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: to keep going and just kind of look and wait
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: for that opportunity and be patient. If that's not the case,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: then that becomes a lot more difficult.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of notes on here. So we don't
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: talk a lot about therapist finances on the show. You
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: just kind of hear us occasionally, very occasionally, sort of
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: passively referenced that it's an underfunded healthcare profession. But for perspective,
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: and this is fresh on my mind because I actually
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: just wrote a letter to the Board of Examiners because
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: there's a conversation in Nevada that has to do with
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: joining what's called the Counseling Compact, which will allow therapists
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: in Nevada, in my particular discipline to practice across state
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: lines with most of the country, which I'll level with
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: the audience personally benefits me. I over the years have
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: had a lot of listeners reach out and say, hey, man,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: I listen to you every week. I feel like, I
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: know you're pretty good. I'd like to work with you.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And I've had to say, hey, I'm sorry, I really
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: can't practice across state lines unless I feel like it's
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: just kind of a life coaching thing. And even that
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: over the years, I've really dialed back. If this law
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: passes in Nevada, I stand to personally benefit. I can
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: just swing wide the gate and say, great, international audience,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: how can I help you? And that would be great
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: for me. I would love to do that. I would
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: love to work with people that get my sense of
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: humor and have tolerated me, and also to meet people
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: where they're at. But the bigger picture of how it
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: will affect the profession in the state feel very concerned about.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: And I worry about my colleagues, and I worry that
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: it won't be good for them, and so all these
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: statistics are very much on the top of my mind.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: So to educate the public for a second, according to
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: a mental health counselor is fifty six thousand dollars.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Seems high. Yeah, that, thank you for comparison.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: So to put that in perspective, as Nick just said,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: for the education we lost couch.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, Jacob dropped that on the way here.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I know that we weren't going to talk about how
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I JD vanced my couch. I started making Valentine's Day
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: cards already, or pictures of JD Vans and a couch,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: like somehow paying that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I hope it's
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: still plays. Yeh yeah, I've been putting time into it.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, like the average salary of a
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: men's health counselor is fifty six thousand dollars. A fully
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: licensed men's health counselor pretty would listen to this in
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: the future. Jim is making Valentine's Day cards.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: In August, thank you. Yes, just to make sure it's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: it's done. So to put it in perspective, as Nick reference,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: for education experience, to become a licensed therapist in almost
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: any state of the fifty you're going to go get
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: a four year bachelor degree, and then when you finish that,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: you're going to go back to graduate school and you're
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: going to do a master's degree. Many master's degree in
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: America are fifteen to twenty credits. The average master's degree
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: in America is about twenty to twenty five credits. For
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: your subject.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: In mental health counseling and any mental health counseling discipline,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: it is sixty six to seventy credits. So you're talking
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: about three two to three years of full time master's work.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: During that time, you're also going to do a lot
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: hundreds of hours of free therapy as you train and learn.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Then when you finally finish seven years of higher education,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: now you're still not a therapist. You're now going to
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: train postgraduate for three more years under mentors who are
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: fully licensed and board certified to continue to train you.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: They will not do that for and there is no
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: fellowship programs like there are for medical doctors, where after
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: they graduate med school they join a fellowship and now
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: they do their hands on training time and they get
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: paid to do it. That doesn't exist for men's health counselors.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: So men's health counselors of all varieties go out into
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: the field they practice, they earn a little bit of
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: money for doing that, and then they pay out of pocket,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: usually on credit cards, for the board required sort of
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: supervision that they need for two or three years in
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: order to become fully licensed. And then of course they
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: also finish that up by taking very big, very expensive,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: very difficult national exams. So you're talking about ultimately ten
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: years of higher education, advanced postgraduate clinical training in a
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: very specific skill set, all of that to land at
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: fifty six thousand dollars a year. The last search I
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: did for a McDonald's general manager job, or actually not
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: even GM, just store manager here in Las Vegas started
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: at sixty one thousand dollars a year. No college, require
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: high school diploma and some experience, and probably in your
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: thirties in order to be older than the kids that
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: work there. So that goes to show you why it's
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: a very tough profession to step into. You're going to
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: be ten fifteen thousand dollars less annually than at an
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: average McDonald's manager.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Plus let's forget the McDonald's manager doesn't have student loans.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, that's a whole other point for most likely
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: most likely and then again for perspective, a registered nurse
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: who at eighteen years old starts college. They go to
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: school for four years, they get out, and then they
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: are in their job. In their fifth year, they are
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three years old. They start in
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: America at eighty six thousand dollars a year Bureau of
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Labor Statistics citations. So what the writer Katrinka is talking
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: about is that difficult reality that we have the situation. Now,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: you might say to yourself, Man, I I do not
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: understand that. I listen to the show. I feel like
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I really respect mental health professionals. I agree with the education,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I agree at the training. How on earth could this
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: be possible? Well, the short answer is criminal fraud is
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: just the shortest possible answer. You might think, Oh, Jim,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: you're always full of blooney. This is probably one of
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: those moments. You're just a dumb ass. Oh you're usually right, writer,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: but actually on this ship, sure surgical strike on the truth.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty two, in fairness, you might be
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: right this time too.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: We'll see, We'll never know. In twenty twenty two, Federal
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: government three branches of the Federal government, three executive branches
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Department of Labor, Department of Health and Human Services, and
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Department of Treasury co issued a report on mental health
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: parity law. There have been three laws past federally requiring
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: insurances to stop low balling therapists and mental health professionals
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: and instead to pay us the equivalent of what any
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: medical doctor gets paid. The report in twenty twenty two
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: revealed that out of one hundred and fifty six private
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: insurance companies that do business in America, exactly one hundred
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: and fifty six of them were found to be completely
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: non compliant with all federal laws. Every single one of
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: them was just not paying therapists what the federal law
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: requires them to pay. And the consequence for these watchdog
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: federal agencies catching these people, catching these insurances flouting the
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: law and breaking it, the consequence for that was exactly nothing.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: The only consequences that were put on them at all
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: was occasionally some of the insurances had clawed back funds
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: already paid to therapists and they were told to give
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: back that money, and in most of those cases when
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: they returned the check.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: So the money they had paid to therapists and then
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: stolen back claimed back, claimed back saying you know what,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: we don't think John really had depression. They had to
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: give that money back. We think you.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: The therapist who diagnosed John with depression, me some random
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: asshole who just works in administration here.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: At the office. Change that time.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: I'm questioning whether or not this John really had depression,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: and I question your diagnosis without any training whatsoever. I'm
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: clawing back a year's worth of funds on this and
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: so thirty two dollars, yeah, right, tens of thousands of
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: dollars for clinics, and occasionally the punishment for insurances who
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: clawed back money was to give some of that money back.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: Most of the time, when they finally were forced to
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: give the money back, the clinic had already gone bankrupt.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: That is how small they are. That is how close
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: to the margins they operate. So big picture, when I
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: tell you how dire the financial system is for mental
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: health professions, I am not telling you.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Woe is us.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: This is also why seventy percent of mental health professionals
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: work out of network. If you've ever gotten frustrated, thought
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: whether the fuck can I find anybody in my in
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: insurance range? What does nobody take the network because the
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: insurances are criminally underpaying us. They are breaking federal laws
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: because it is cheaper to break the law and very
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: rarely incur some kind of federal penalty than it is
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: to obey the law and pay the money, and there
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: are no consequences. And the only times we see consequences
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: are when state legislatures get involved and exercise oversight on
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: the insurance companies. But that is very rare because insurance
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: companies are a big fish in any state. They have
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of money and they pay, They pay the
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: state legislatures. They fund all these campaigns to make sure
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: there is never oversight, so you can get all to.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: All the stuff like they just funding to political campaign.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Cut all the checks to the politicians. The politicians do
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: not increase site.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: They let it go and we all just move on.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: So to Katrinka's point, her story is sadly not an outlier.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: If you go to Reddit and you go to like
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: the subreddit of just therapists, every other day the post
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: is how did I do ten years of higher education
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: and expertise. I am on the frontline of healthcare. I
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: am saving lives every single day. I am so valuable.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: I am on food stamps.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: And it is ridiculous, And so you know, it is
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: hard to make it as a therapist. The therapists that
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: do make it either work their asses off and like
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: this is another thing. And it goes into my letter
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: to the Port of Examiners And sorry, I'm on the
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: soapbox for a second, but it's very fresh in my mind.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: The American Counseling Association just released their annual work Force
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Survey report for twenty twenty four. Thirty four percent of
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: therapists surveyed have two or more jobs to survive. If
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: you found out that thirty four percent of fucking surgeons
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: were delivering pizzas or selling real estate on the side,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: it would verify you. You do not want a surgeon
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: who this is their part time side hustle, is pulling
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: fucking cancer out of you. You want somebody that does
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: this all day every day, reads books on it when
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: they're off, goes to every training available, and is sharpening
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: their fucking scalpels on their days off.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when I order a pizza, I expect it to
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: be delivered by a well trained individual that knows what
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: they're doing. Who's doing it as a part time giah.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Well they're doing their therapy. Shit, you're less tangibin Jesus
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Christ a pizza gotten ready. End of rant.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: But that is the background economics of the field. So
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: what happens is that seventy percent of the field does
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: not take the insurances with which the insurances are overjoyed with.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: They do not want you to be enlisted with them
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: because then you can take what small pittance they offer,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: and if you're not even with them, you can't touch
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: their beautiful money. So they love that, and nobody stops
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: the situation. So the therapists who do well in the
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: p profeshion, who earn good money or get into those
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: six figure ranges, tend to get into cash pay private practice,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: or they get into out of network private practice, because
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: in out of network models, you can say, listen, insurance,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I charge this much for an hour. That is my
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: livable wage. That is what maeduication expertise is worse worth.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: You can pay that, or you can pay a portion
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: of that and ask the client to pay the rest
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: That is between you two. But I'm staying out of it.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: So a lot of therapists do that. So I mean, writer,
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: I kind of agree with Nick here if you are
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: needing to secure yourself financially, which you have every right
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: to do. That's another thing that pisses me off about
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: this when therapists talk about, golly, maybe we ought to
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: get paid for our profession. Maybe we ought to be
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: good for this. Maybe it's not okay that there is
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: national criminal fraud to basically strangle an entire section of healthcare.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: People go, gosh, you gassholes are just in it for
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: the money, and that really fucking sucks because nurses and
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: doctors also save goddamn life, but nobody accuses them of
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: being in it for the money they earn health care money,
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: and nobody's pissed about it. Because healthcare is fucking hard
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: and you have to be really good at it, and
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: the stakes are really fucking high. If you're you know,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: in another profession like computer science, and you fuck something up,
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: nobody fucking dies. Okay, all the websites down, fix that shit.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: That would be useful things. Here's a boatload of money
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: for being really good at something awesome in healthcare. People
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: fucking die, and you better be paid to match the
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: level of risk and energy you're putting into this to
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: be excellent at it. But in mental health this shit
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: is criminally negligent and then just ignored. So a lot
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: of therapists go into private practice, they go into cash pay.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: There's now this new business in a box model with
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: companies like Headway and Alma that offer to get you
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: connected to insurances and fight for a good competitive rate
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: and basically make sure that you get paid and you
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: know allow and also advertise on your behalf. A lot
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of therapists are doing that as sort of a side
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: hustle in the beginning, or they build their entire practice
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: around that. Whitney builds her entire practice around that using
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: these kinds of businesses in a box. I'm entirely cash pay.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: I don't touch the insurances at all. And that is very,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: very very hard to do, and a very small percentage
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: of therapists are are lucky enough to get that opportunity.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: But Katrinka, if you work at it, I'm sad that
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: that is what you have to do. I'm sad that
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: you can't just be excellent of what you do, show
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: up in a healthcare workplace, kick ass at what you do,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: save lives, change lives, and get paid well for doing it.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: I'm sad that you have to find a way out
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: of the mainstream of the profession to survive and provide
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: for a family. That is ridiculous, but that is the
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: reality that we're in. So I would encourage you to
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: look at one of the businesses in a box models
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: like Almer Headway. I think a lot of colleagues are
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: having a lot of success with that, launching a private
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: practice and starting a side hustle like private practice to
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: try to continue to build that, or you may have
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: to do, as you wrote in your letter, what thirty
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: four percent of other therapists are doing, which is having
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: a second job. And in truth, I mean I don't
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: need a second job. I have private practice. It can
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: be a full time private practice. I've done that for years.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: But now I have three jobs. I teach it U
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: and R. I teach at U and LV, I also
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: work at a clinical training program at UNLV, and I
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: have a private practice. And that's not a financial necessity,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: but it easily could be. You know, if if just
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: all it doesn't take much for that to become a
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: financial necessity for me. But I also understand that you
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: still want to raise these kids. You don't want to
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: be working sixty hours a week. I get that. That's
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: what I'm doing right now. It's a lot, it's very
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: very hard. I don't think that we should.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: But the other option too that exists sometimes is sometimes
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: you get promoted into administration. And that's one of the
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's really frustrating is
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: the way the system is set up is, at least
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: in the substance use treatment world, if you're really good
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: at your job, we promote you out of it, Yeah,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: and we have you stop doing it so that you
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: can go into administration. And the reason why people accept
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: that is because it's the only way they're going to
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: make more money. Yes, because you cannot. Doesn't matter how
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: good you are at your job, you will continue to
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: make the same amount of money as somebody who's not
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: good at their job, right, because that's just all the
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: money that's available. So administration kind of becomes the way
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: that people advance. And then unfortunately then that means that
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: you're no longer doing the thing that you're really good at.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: I'm glad that you did reevaluate. I'm glad that you found,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: according to your letter, some peace and some harmony. I
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: guess we can only just encourage you and cheer for you.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: There are paths that some therapists take to make more
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: money and to take off the financial burdens so that
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: they can take care of their families. I think we've
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: tried to tip you to those. But as far as
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: like how humans in this profession cope, I like that
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: you bring up the peanut butter m and ms. That
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: is something a lot of therapist struggle with, like all
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: healthcare professions, when people are only coming to you when
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: they are in a state of some kind of suffering
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: of some level or another, sometimes very mild. Sometimes they
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: just want some life advice, so they just want to
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: use this as an emotional yoga space. Sometimes they are
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: in dire straits and so it is very taxing to
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: do what we do, and it causes a lot of
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: distress and a lot of us struggle in the profession.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: And it's not uncommon that we are horphined down those
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: panut m and ms are failing to do self care,
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: sometimes over drinking, sometimes smoking, like just going through our
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: own human experience in the background. And I appreciate letters
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: like yours, Katrinka, because it shines a light on that
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: and it humanizes us, which is what the pod therapy
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: experiment is fundamentally about, is humanizing this profession so people
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: can approach it and understand it and relate to it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: So I just want to speak to that and just
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: say that I support you on that, I relate to
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: you on that. It's a very common thing. If you're
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: not already in the discord, please join.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: It's a buck.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: And I realize asking you for money after a letter
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: like that is sad, but for a buck, you can
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: get into the discord. And we have a lot of
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: other therapists that are in the discord that chat and
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: share notes and give each other encouragement. I'm finding a
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: professional community wherever you can just to share notes and
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: share encouragement and surelead for each other.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Is huge.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: And if you're not already a part of that, I
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: really hope that you'll find some kind of community support
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: because that really goes the distance.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Like that makes a big difference. Yeah, and at two
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: dollars a month, you'll just feel better.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll support your only fans, Like, if you
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: do launch it, please send us the link.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: You know, we won't look at anything but we will donate.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: We'll put it out there though.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: We support single Mom's only fans, you know, because that's
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: the pod Therapy guarantee. We're going to take quick break
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: and when we come back, we're talking about cutting off
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: support to a child.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Ben Don, Maleiah,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Samantha Cone, thunder Truger, Falcon Scoop Slipick,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: I am Motherfucker, and Sandra mcwaffle. And if you would
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: like to sponsor the show, the comer Patreon supporter at
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com, slash therapy and sign up to become
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: a producer. Okay, next set of questions. Here we go.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Which country has won the most metals in Winter Olympics history?
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Ooh oh wow? Are their options?
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: It's there are all right, United States, Germany, Norway or Canada.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, Oh I'm leaning Canada on this.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: I'm leaning Norway.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Ooh that's a solid guest. All right, I'll take us.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Okay with the home team.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you probably have a shot. I mean, none of
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: these are bad answers.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've got a shot. I feel like
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: we all. I feel like we're all at the game.
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: We compete in everything too.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: I want us all to be wrong though, I wanted
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: to all be the Germany Norway Norway.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Norway has won the most medals, and.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: No one guessed Norway.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Alright? What nickname did Stephen Colbert give to dressage during
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: his twenty twelve segment highlighting its perceived elegance and complexity?
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: He banged that drum, horse ballet. Oh, that's it.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Fancy prancing. That might be a horse jazz. Also good
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: equine dance off. I think fancy prancy.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I'll take horse jazz. It'll take B.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: That's gonna go B two.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: You suck my battleship.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna take B as well. Answer is B
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: fancy prancing?
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: A solid?
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: All right? How did Stephen Colbert describe the attire of
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: dressage riders during his twenty twelve Olympic segments?
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Questions about Stephen for like a year, like he was
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: so invested in.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: This, Like equestrian ninjas, like Victorian area era superheroes. It
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: feels right, like tuxedos for horses, like formal wear for
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: barn dance, for a barn dance. I'm gonna go with D.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I'll take B.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: I want Victoria in Superheroes.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, I like Victoria.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: What was A like equestrian ninjas?
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: What was c U?
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: C was like tuxedos for horses? Yeah, give me that one.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: It is B like Victoria's superheroes.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, you, Stephen, you have rewarded me with many a
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: point today. I don't know the number has, but I'm
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: pretty sure I'm winning. Cutting off support to a child
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: from anonymous I think I'm winning, Whitney, what are you
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: doing back here? We told you to get out. I
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: rode in a few years ago about going to California
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: and getting my daughter that had overdosed. My wife and
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: I her step mom. Uh yeah, my wife and I
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: her step mom worked to help her get clean, and
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: though things had been going well until she got a duy,
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: we put her into detox and a thirty day rehab program.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: After rehab, she came to live with us, got a job,
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: and we thought she was going good. She asked to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: move in with her biological mom. I didn't think that
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: was such a good idea because she would not get
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: the structure that she needed to stay clean. Unfortunately, she
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: did end up going to her mother's after she moved out.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: We found out that she'd been stealing little things that
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: we either turned a blind eye to or just didn't notice.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: We also found that she was using when she assured
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: us she was not. Once at her mother's, she stopped
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: going to alcoholics Anonymous, lost her job, and ended up
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: totaling a car that was about two years ago. During
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: this time, she'd threatened to commit suicide, went to rehab
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: two or three more times. About a year ago, she
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: got drunk, assaulted her mother and boyfriend. Her mother called
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: the police, and she got arrested for domestic violence. She
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: called and asked me to bail her out, since I
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: knew that she was relatively safe in jail. I told
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: her I would not get her out. Once out of jail,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: the state put her through rehab again. During that time,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: her boyfriend had moved to Arkansas. Once out of rehab,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: she connected with her boyfriend and moved there. Her mother
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: and I told her that we did not think that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: was a good idea because if something happened, she would
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: not have any support, but she went anyways. I got
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: a call from her boyfriend saying she got arrested for
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: public intoxication and disorderly conduct, and he was giving her
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: a week to find a place or move back home.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: I told him that she could not move back in
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: with me. Her mother and I have talked and both
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: feel that we no longer we can no longer support
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: her financially or otherwise. She says that she may be
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: homeless and we do not love her and we don't understand.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: I'm struggling with the thoughts of her with no place
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: to stay, and what could happen if she in fact
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: becomes homeless. How do we know we know we are
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: I guess how do we know we are doing the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: right thing. I'm not sure if I can handle the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: guilt of something happening to her. Her boyfriend says he
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: will fly her home, but again, I don't think she
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: would have any place to go once she's back. If
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: you could maybe give me a little input or words
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: of wisdom, I would appreciate it. Thanks Anonymous.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: This is a really, really tough one, and I'm.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Kind closing the show with an easy yeah yeah, the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: layups are easy. Yeah yeah, good.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I I empathize with your position writer, because here's the thing,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: it's easy. It's going to be easy for all. We
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: all know what the answer this is right, and but
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's easy to say the answer. Yeah, it's
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: really easy to say it. It's not easy to accept it.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: And even if you do intellectually understand it, you're not
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: going to emotionally understand it. Right because this person is
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: this is your daughter. You love this person, You would
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: give anything for this person, and.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: So portly you would give anything for the well being
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: of this.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Person exactly, And it's so hard to watch a child
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: go through this. And so you're doing the right thing,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, with with setting these boundaries. But again, like
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Yeah,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: I think you already know that you're doing the right thing.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes you just need to hear it from
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: other people that you're doing the right thing by enforcing
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: these boundaries. So three c's the three s's of alan on.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't cause this, I can't control it, I can't
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: cure it.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: And cos cos the four seas the fourth se subtle,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: it's very important. It's firm, n but fair.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Firm fair. This is one of the things that like,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: you know, listening to that it's I totally empathize with
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: the position of like, yeah, oh totally, I'm gonna set
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: these boundaries and yes, no she can't come here, and Nope,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be firm, We're gonna put our foot down.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: But then at the end of the day, if something happens,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, and that that sense of like you
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: are probably going to have that thought or that feeling
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: of like, oh my god, I did the wrong thing.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I should have been there, I shouldn't I should have
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: just caved in. I should have let her come home.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: I should have done all this. And that's what any parent,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I think, would feel.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: What's the situation, and it's like, oh, you're in jail. Yeah,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: you're calling me to ball you out of jail. I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: think you're gonna be fine in jail. And then you
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: have that terrible fear of what if my child gets
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: hurt while in jail, right, and I could have gotten
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: them out of that situation, right, And that's that is
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: horrific to think about.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: It's terrible.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then but then I think the thing that
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I would remind you is the father would be okay,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: but you get this person out of jail. Then what happens. Yeah,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: because danger is not.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Over then they dangerous shit.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've seen that movie. Yeah, over and over absolutely,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: and that's we saw it. Yes, I've heard. And here's
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: the thing, writer, you are not alone. Every parent that
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: I've ever interacted with has had this exact same thought
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: when their child gets arrested. Have a huge sense of relief, Right,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I think, Oh, thank God, now I know they're safe.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: At least I know they're in somewhere.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I can't use drugs hypothetically, So yeah, and and so
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that feeling that I think is
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: the appropriate feeling and response.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, and you know exactly what Nick just said. I mean,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: we've talked about this in the past. This is something
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: that Nick and I have had to work on a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: lot in our work in rehabs and with families. Is
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: affording the addict the dignity of discomfort, allowing them to
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: experience the natural consequences of their choices. A big part
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: of the disease of addiction is an ecosystem disease. It's
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: a family disease. And one of the ways that that
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: happens is the people that love you protect you from
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: the consequences. Imagine that there's a hot stove in your
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: kitchen and the person with this problem of addiction walks
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: over and goes to put their hand on that stove.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: And each time they reach for that stove, you see
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: them going for it, and you protect them from it.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: You reach out and you slide your hand under their
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: hand and press your hand on the stove to protect
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: them from it. That is you paying for bail. That
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: is you paying for rehab. That is you paying their
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: legal fees. That is you keeping them at your house
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: and paying their rents and paying for their costs of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: living and they don't pay for anything. That is you
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: buying the alcohol. It is you reaching out and touching
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: all the painful consequences of this addiction. But humans will
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: not learn pain is their greatest teacher. Nick and I
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: have never rehabilitated somebody who was on a fucking winning streak.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: They come into rehab because they have hit rock bottom,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: because their parents and the system and their job and
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: their PO officer, all these people are telling them, you're fucked.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: This is it.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: You choose to get healthy, or you choose to fail
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: and feel that pain. A lot of people have given
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: up a lot of people have and it takes that
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: for us to be able to help them. That is
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: when humans become willing to accept help. And if I
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: can be honest with you, writer, female patients have a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: very different reality than the males. Women running gun longer
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: in their addiction because they enjoy a different kind of sympathy.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: There is a different sense of the family of like,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: we've got to protect her. She's into drugs and alcohol.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: I don't want her going out and slumming it with
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: the people underneath the bridge. I don't want her to
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: get raped. She's just a girl. I don't want her
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: to get hurt. And then, of course other men in
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: the game who are dealing drugs or using drugs or
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: drinking all the time, they'll pay the bar tab. They'll
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: pay for the girl to enjoy some drugs and hang
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: out at the apartment and date them or just be
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: a part of the crowd.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: So like it.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: We call it the infinite credit card of femininity. And
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: it's a problem because they can use a lot longer,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: whereas male patients tend to hit the wall faster because
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: they run out of sympathy or interest from other people.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: And ultimately that allows them to get healthy. So I
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: mean all of this.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: So you say it takes to women longer to hit
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: rock bottom, it does.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they have the parachute and you know, and a
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: lot of times they just take that ladder right back
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: up to the top and then jump again. And they
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: need to be allowed to hit the ground. They need
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: to be allowed to experience natural consequences. So right, the
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: two notes I have for you are one what Nick said,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: You have got to get into alan On and Aranan
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: right away. That changed my life, That changed the life
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: of a lot of people who are in your situation.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Get in there. What's a alan On is the supplemental
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: group to alcoholics anonymous. So it is not for the alcoholic.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: It is for the friends and family of an alcoholic.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: What do you learn in Alani?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: So alan On and its correspondent, Naranon same concept. Instead
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: of narcotics anonymous, it's Nara Non. It's not for the attic,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: it's for the friends and family. It's a support group
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: for people that are in your situation. And we have
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: our own books, our own twelve step, our own sense
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: of advice where we are counseling, encouraging each other to
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: stop enabling to stop being codependent, to stop being drugged
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: down with this person, and to give them the dignity
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: of discomfort so they can get better. And we have
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: to face those fears together too, and you need that
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: support also.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing that's going to be useful
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: about a twelve step group like this is that from
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: your perspective, you're writing this and you feel like this
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: is a situation that is unique to you.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: Good point.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: And the very first thing that you're going to realize
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: because I mean reading this letter, there is nothing that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you've said this letter that I haven't heard a thousand
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: times before. Oh yeah, this, I mean, having worked in
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: this field as long as I have, like this, is
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: that I hear this all the time. Yes, And I
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: think that's one of the things too that you're going
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: to get going to one of those meetings, is you're
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: going to hear other people like, yeah, yep, absolutely, I
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: went through that. And sometimes it's nice just to be
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: able to understand that you're not alone in that situation. Yes,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: And you get to learn from things that they've done,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you get to learn from their mistakes, you
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: also get to learn from their successes.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know again, writer, what Nick said, there's
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: nothing about this that you're doing wrong. You've been very kind,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: you've been very generous. I think you've done all the
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: right things. But she has now going to rehab three
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: or four times. She has had tons of financial consequences,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: tons of legal consequences. She has burned the bridge in
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: her relationship. She has burned the bridge with you, She
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: has burned the bridge with her biological mother. One by one,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: she has destroyed these relationships. And one of the things
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: that the disease of addiction causes these people to do
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: is blame everybody else for their failure. Then they will
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: call you and be like, I can't to believe that
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: you're abandoning me. Oh kind of father?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Are you? You're the worst person ever.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: The only reason I even drink is because you.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: You did this to me. And everything that they say
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: to you in that rage is going to be true.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: That's one of That's what.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, that's one of the most difficult things that
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 5: you will hear in that moment is all of those things.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: They're going to say these things and they're going to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: make sense, yes, And when they make sense, it's going
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: to be terrifying, and we can't give you all these answers.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: But the people with Alan on your sponsor's there, all
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: your friends, the people that you are in meetings with
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: their they're going to be able to help you through
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: these times in very specific cases that we cannot foresee
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: and we can't help you through on this show.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: That's where the support is needed. And like also is
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: life support for you and for your spouse and hopefully
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: also for your ex wife. Like you are humans going
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: through a unique situation. To be haired with other humans
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: who have survived, that is vital. And look, we're not
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: gonna sugarcoat this. Whenever we run rehabs, when we meet
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: with families like you, we advise you we need you
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: to stop supporting this person. We need you to stop
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: covering the freeway in mattresses to protect them bumping into
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: the walls. We need them to go through real life,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: what we call life on life's terms, because our therapy
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: isn't effective until they feel that embracing that and the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: difficulty and pain of change is superior to the suffering
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: of not changing. But until that is true for them,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: they will not give themselves to this work. So ultimately,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: it's a very hard field to swallow. But by you
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: pulling back, you are giving us more tools to heal
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: as human and hopefully the next goal around, the next
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: opportunity to rehab, the next treatment. They're ready for it.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: But it's a really hard thing because, again I don't
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: want to sugarcoat it. Addiction is a life and death. Yes,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: people get hurt, Yes, people overdose. Yes, people get taken
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: advantage of, people get raped, people get sucked into crime,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: people live on the streets.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: It is a disease. It is horrible. It is the worst.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: And I understand your point that I can't watch my
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: child go through this. One of my mentors at one
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: of the companies, Nick and I formally worked for a
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: man who I think we both very much respect. He
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: tells a story to families about when he finally decided
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: to get sober. He's now a counselor, but originally he
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: was very very much addicted to substances, and as he
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: was abusing all these drugs and alcohol, people would come
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: to his father and this this gentleman is Ourminian and
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: they're very very family oriented, and people would come to
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: his father, an Armenian immigrant, and say when are you
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: going to cut off your son. You've got to stop this.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: You can't let him just keep doing this. You're bailing
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: them out of jail. You know you're buying him. You're
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: giving him money and he uses it for drugs and alcohol.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: You're giving him a place to live. You're protecting him
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: from these consequences. You've got to cut him off. And
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: this father, according to my friend and colleague, used to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: hold up his hand and ask people challenging him, which
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: finger would you have me cut off? Because I can
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: no sooner cut off my finger off my hand than
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: cut off my child. But one day the father finally
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: summoned the courage not to bail his son out of jail.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: And our colleague tells this story all the time at
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: conferences that the day he realized he was ready to
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: get help, the day he really made it his own,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: the day he was done using. He was sitting on
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: the third bunk of a Los Angeles County prison bunk
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: bed where he was being held because his father would
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: not pay the bail, and he says in his story
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: there was one inch away from a fluorescent light that
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: would not turn off, and as he was staring at
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: it for probably the twelfth hour in a row. That
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: was the moment he broke and he realized, I cannot
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: live this life anymore. I cannot keep coming back here.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: I've got to get help. And that's when he became willing.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: But it wasn't until his family allowed him to experience
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: the consequences of his choices that he became aware that
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: there were consequences for his choices and sought the alternative,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: which for him was a life of health and ultimately
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: getting into the career and saving other people.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: One thing too, that I'd add to this is that
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: I understand from your perspective, and I hope you understand
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: this too, is that you're not given a choice between
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: do I want to eat ice cream or this shit sandwich.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: This this is a very difficult You've got the.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Sandwich or a slightly more appetizing shit.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Sad exactly, That's exactly what it is. And so you
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: have to understand that you're just in a really shitty
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: situation with two bad choices. Yeah, and that's what makes
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: this so difficult. It almost kind of reminds me I
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: was watching this like self defense video and it was
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: this U.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: With Steven sgall in it.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Those are the best ones, the only ones, so they're
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: the only one I trust. But this martial arts expert
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: was kind of talking about like you know, all these
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: self defense moves and ship and he was like, Okay,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: if you find yourself in a situation where the other
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: person has a knife, said number one, you just need
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: to run.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: If you can get away, you get that is, you
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: need to do that.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: And he said, he said if you can't and you
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: are in this situation, he said, the very first thing
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: you need to do is accept the fact you're gonna
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: get cut.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: Resign yourself to the reality that you're going to you're
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: gonna get stabbed by that knife.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: He's like, this is not a Hollywood movie that this
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: If you go into a fight with somebody with a knife,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: you're going to get cut and you need to accept
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: that right away. And that's kind of how I feel
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: in this situation with parents going through this situation. It's
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: like there's you can't run away, right that's not on
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: the table. You have to understand that in this situation
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get hurt well.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 5: And that is and that and that's one reason that
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: groups like alan On are so very important to situations
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: like this because theoretically, we can just say you have
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: to do this, you have to do this, you have
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: to let this happen, you have to do these things,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 5: and it sounds impossible, right, It just sounds like an
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: impossibility that I can let my child have these horrible
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: things happen to them without me going in and saving
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: them like I am able to do. And and what
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: alan On does and what that support group helps you
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: do is those specific instances where this is going on,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 5: what do I do in this moment, and that person
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: who has been in that moment before or maybe in
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 5: that moment at the same time time along with you,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: They can help you talk through that moment, think through
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 5: that moment, think a bigger picture as opposed to just
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: how do I get my child out of this scenario
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 5: right now? And it's it's it's like it's like Nick said,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 5: you know, it's it is terrible no matter what you do,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 5: it's it's a really shitty scenario that you and your
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: child are both in.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: But all you can do now is start to work
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: your way out of it and start to find kind
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: of best case scenario, keeping in mind that the best
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: case scenario is still not going to be great.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's nice to know that you're not in
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: this situation shitty situation alone, and that people have made
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: it out of this shitty situation. Yeah, And it's important
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: to hear those stories.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: People have survived this. Yeah, And that's what we're talking about.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, we are talking about survival. We're talking about
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: a life and death situation. And and I I'm really
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: sorry to put it that bluntly, but I mean that
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: is what it is.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: And I'm sorry for you, and I'm sorry for your
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: child that you're in the scenario.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: There's no path where you don't suffer. No, that's inevitable.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: And there's no path where your child doesn't suffer exactly.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: And there's no path where you can take all that
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: suffering from your child onto yourself. You are not able
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: They will just keep getting more. But there is a
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: way to accept a path of suffering that leads to
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: the greatest probability of change. But the thing we always
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: warn people is it is in the end a probability
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: and that is always hard. But writer, good luck with this.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: I really encourage you to get into a support group.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: You can't do this alone. You're not meant to do
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: this alone. Get that coach and get that support, get
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: that sponsorship, work those steps for yourself. It really transformed
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: my life, and I really think it will do a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: lot of good for you.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: Oh also, you're gonna feel embarrassment and shame in this.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: And uh, it's not your fault. This is this. It
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: is Nick's fault. Plain and subjects. Yes, And if you'd
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: like for Nick to stop doing this to your family
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: Patreon dot com slash therapy, you better pay. Once we
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: get to a threshold, Nick will stop getting your children.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: I will I looked on drugs and alcohol. I will
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: remember all my voodoo dolls.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Now there's one last thing I want to point out here,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: One one last thing I want to point out.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: The show, really Nick is causing your chard to get
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: hooked on drugs and alcohol. That might be it's pretty dark.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Now, one last thing, and this is
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: going to go a little bit off point, but I
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: just kind of want to point it out to you
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: and to anybody else who's listening. One of the things
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: that you said is that that your daughter has been
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: to rehab two to three times. Now I know this
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: is full information. I appreciate that you're sharing with that
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: with us, But one thing that I would like to
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: kind of let you know and let the rest of
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: the audience know, is that that's not a bad thing,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: good point. And I don't a lot of times I
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: hear a lot of people say like, oh my god,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: so and so they had to go to rehab five times,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: and they talk about it as though that's a derogatory thing.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I don't care if they go to rehab one time,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: zero times, or ten times. It doesn't matter. Because one
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: thing that I think is really important is that sometimes
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: people feel like if you go to rehab and then
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: you end up having to go back, that you've somehow
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: failed or that rehab didn't work. And that's not the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: case at all. You learn something every time you go.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I didn't take one golf lesson, you know,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: I took several still taking them, and so like it's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: the same thing. It's it's just it's there's a resource.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: So whatever gets us to success gets us there. It
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter how many times we do it.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: And also success is a pretty low bar because success
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: is surviving. Success is just getting to the next day,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: going to rehab for the third time means that you
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: have beaten the odds three times and you're getting there
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: for a third time and taking yet another swing at it.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that Yeah, that's something that That's a conversation
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: I had have with all my clients when they would
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: ever come back, if they would complete successfully, they leave
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: for several months to a year, two years, and then
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: they come back. They always come back with that shame
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: and that guilt, and I have to say, what, why
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: are you? Why are you upset like that? We should
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: be happy, like you're back, like you you came back.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: We're still taking swings. Yeah, exactly, We're still We're still
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: trying to beat this thing. We haven't given up.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: We haven't died, we haven't we haven't acquiesceded this. We
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: are still doing the work to make life better. And
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's all we can do.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: That was always my philosophy work with adolescents too, is
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: I would always tell my clinical staff when we were
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: working with kids, like, just remind them what our goal is.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: Our goal is not that these kids are going to
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: be clean and sober for the rest of their lives.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Our goal is that they establish a good enough relationship
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: with us that in the future, if they need us,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: they'll come back. Yes, that's what we want, because the
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: amount of time from returning to youse to seeking help,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: the longer that time is, the more deadly the diseases. Right,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: So if we can cut down that time to where
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: they feel like, oh my god, I fucked up. I
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: want to go back.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: If that's a matter of days, that's success huge. That's
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: absolutely last thoughts for me.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: Writer. Don't forget.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: There's also these alternatives where you don't have to pick
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: between the two barbells of like on one end, I
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: take you back into my home and we deal with
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: your chaos, or on the other end, we abandon you
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: to the streets of wherever the boyfriend and lives. The
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: middle ground is sometimes creating some kind of expectation of like, look,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: you're between a rock and a hard place. Your only
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: option now is yes, we will let you move back
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: to our state. You are checking into this sober living program.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: You will test clean in order to continue living there,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: and if you fail out of there, you will join
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: a homeless shelter and that's your deal. But you're not
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: living with us. So sometimes you can use these extreme
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: situations to corral this person into a middle ground that
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: otherwise they wouldn't really accept because they'd say, no, I'm
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: just going to live with you, blah blah blah, I
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: don't like these people, they're in a cult, whatever nonsense
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: they come up with. You can use these extreme things
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: to kind of push them toward help. And sometimes it
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: doesn't have to be full blown rehab. It could just
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: be a sober living program, something where they stabilize so
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: or that they're just going to attend outpatient therapy and
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: you say, yeah, you can live here. We're going to
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: put you in no sober living and the only way
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: I will pay that rent is if you are also
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: attending outpatient therapy and I get attendance records. Refer to
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: question number one of this week's episode to hear how
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: to do that. So lots of options here, but again,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: this is an opportunity, but definitely something you need to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: be supported on. As we wrap up the show, we
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: want to remind you can sign up at patreon dot
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: com slash therapy. You can get the extended show ad
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: free a day early, as well as enjoy our live chat,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: discord community, and our weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: research roundups, and rants. This week, Nick, you have launched
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: a whole new series. What a great idea tell us
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: about the new series?
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: So this is get to know a THERAP producer.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: So every week I or every week that it's my turn,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be putting out an episode of an
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: interview I've done with a THERAP producer and or THERA partner.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: If you can get one, good luck those are gets.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: I got one already in the books. And so the
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: idea behind this is that everybody is gonna these are
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: It's a little short introduction of Hi, my name is
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: so and so, and this is how it came about,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: as I found the show and this is why I
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: support it. And then they get six thought provoking questions
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: that they do not have in advance.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: Oh I like this.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: So all of these questions are very deep philosophical and
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: it'll make you think. And the idea, the idea behind
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: this is that we all get to meet all of
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: these people who support the show. I love it, and
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: we get to kind of hear some of their philosophy
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: and intake or input on some of these life questions.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: So week one of this new series. You kicked it
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: off with long time support of the show and former
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: therap partner Maira Yes, and that is live now as
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: you're hearing this week's episode. You can go to Patreon
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: dot com slash therapy. At the five dollars level you
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: get access to our entire pack catalog, which is now
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: several years of content filled with commentary, research skills, breakdowns,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: interviews with experts.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: It is a library.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: So on that note too, to all of our therap
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: producers and therap partners that are listening. You don't have
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: to participate. I would love you too, but it is voluntary.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: If you are willing to do this, please reach out
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: to me. You can either message me DM me on discord,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: or you can email me at the pod Therapy email address,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: or you could email me my Mental Fit Personal Training
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: Nick at mentalfitpersonal Training dot com. Email me there and
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: we'll get something in the books.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: So Jake Schneider already let you know that he refuses
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: except to be interviewed on the main show.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: So far, that's what. So far you can wear him down.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: I will wear him the trick.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: With Jake, I know. Let me tell you how to
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: get to Jake. You just wait until he's got about
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: a glass and a half of bourbon at him, and
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: I'll do whatever the fuck you want. You can jump
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: on the discord chat and he'll be like, what's going on, man? Yeah,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: he'll play poker like he'll just do anything.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah thunders trying to get out of it too, but
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: stay honest.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah at him flow then you can put whatever you wanted.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, check that out.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: And then next week I've got a new peace rolling out,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: which is a research deep dive into the recent FDA
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: rejection of MDMA therapy or medicine for PTSD. So that's
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: hot off the press, deep dive into the history of
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: it and kind of what the news is surrounding this
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: and why it was rejected by the FDA and a
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: lot of my hot takes on it.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: So check that out.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: But speaking of Patreon, we've got some new friends who
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: have joined the Thera party. Who's new to Patreon this week?
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: Nick, welcome to han Win, thank you for joining, And Eerie.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: Sarah Welcome, Love havn't you And we'd like to thank
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: the Benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: love you all so much they give till it hurts.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: The Theraph partners thank you, Dirty b and pick It,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: and we want to especially thank our boss Is, the
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 3: Mysterious and shred out Illuminati, members of our fan club,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: the their producers, thank you. Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mitt, Smitty,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: Scoop Bendon, Judy Schneider, Kayla Lansberry, Malia Leon, cassab Mason Miller,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: Ben Stanley, Slap in your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: Builer t Mike Helm, Paris, Samantha Cone, Darren Cunningham, Lib
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: Team Monico, Thunder Cougar Falcon, Scoop, Matt Matt, Lisa Tangeman,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: heyo Oscar Swan ros A, Sunny Boy, Slipecai, Motherfucker, Sandra
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: mcwoffle Dan Martin, Hanna, Marie Andrew Langmead and Emma Kaine.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear this episode un Cut in
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: Untitude and wouldn't you and enjoy our spontaneous side projects,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: go to Patreon dot com slash therapy, and thank you
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: for support him at all.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: Hell, that's all the time we get for this week's session.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: You want to thank our landlords Matt Mattingley's ice Cream
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: Social Podcast, and thanks to those of you contributed to
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: our show today.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: We really appreciated. Remember pop isn't something to keep all
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: to yourself. Should the episode in the world tack us
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: on the socials When you do. It's at pot Therapy
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: Guys on Instagram, threads and Twitter, at slash pot therapy
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: on Facebook, and don't forget about all the extra goodies
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: at Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: Do you want to submit a question to the show,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: ask anonymously at podtherapy dot net or email us at
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: pot therapy Guys at gmail dot com. I'm a stangaman,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Come with me, Come onsom thiks so we'll see you
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: for appointment next week.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Oh we need more trivia man,