Latest / Dark Night of the Podcast / Episode 197-Hollow Gate (1988)

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Episode 197-Hollow Gate (1988) · Dark Night of the Podcast

• Roger: Hello, Dark Knight of the Podcast. Family, friends, and followers, we told you that we're gonna get you an episode just in time for Halloween and a seasonal selection at that. And I think we came through I think we came through at least on getting out in time. I am convinced that this episode will be available for you to listen to by Halloween, if not a day before, thanks to Riverside and all the and the perks and benefits that has to offer, as Troy was just Beguiling me with all of the abilities he's Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: he now possesses as an as a podcast editor. He can do things we could never do before. That's wonderful. Troy Escamilla: Right. Roger: this film is set on Halloween. this film has costumes in it, but I'll say that for being a film that boasts to be like set during Halloween, you sure think it would embrace the season a little bit more. I was surprised that. when I wrapped my first viewing of this film It just somehow shockingly felt void of all things Halloween. And I found that really surprising because the storyline, as we're about to find out here, is something that's I mean, it's it's ripe for the season. It it's set up, it's revolving around costumes, the whole thing. You'd really think that they would have leaned into it more. But when you have a movie that has the budget of like A kid's lunch money. this this film has very limited funds behind it. Let's be clear about that. I suppose you gotta skimp wherever you can. but Troy, you know, you you kinda led me a little astray. Now perhaps this may have been because you hadn't seen this movie in a long time and maybe you remembered it being a lot more seasonal than it actually is. Troy Escamilla: I hadn't seen this film for a long time. Like I mentioned yes last episode, I wanted to pick something a little bit more obscure for Halloween that still had a Halloween theme to it that I know other podcasts haven't covered. And so this was it. And I I hadn't seen this forever. I always remember the the VHS tape, you know, sitting in the mom pa video store I used to go to as a kid called Kensi's. You know, you had this his face on it with the pumpkin in the background and the mon the grandma screaming. And it was always just appealing. And I know one day we just rented it and it's it's forgettable. I remembered a few things about the film, but I I saw it pop up on Tubi again. A couple weeks ago I was scrolling through Tubi and I saw it on Tubi. I'm like, okay, that would be a perfect one for us to cover on the podcast because it's obscure and Halloween is coming up. And when I started to play it this time around, I thought, boy, Roger's going to love me right away because the trauma theme plays. Roger: Troy, my very first fucking note I have here Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: is I know right off the bat that I'm going to be thrilled with this film when I see that animated City Skyline And that a trauma team release title coming up over top it. yeah, I was I was not thrilled to say the least. But But before we jump into this, I do think we need to state, with this being Halloween, I hope everybody listening has a very good Halloween this year because it's falling on a Saturday. And I wanted to, you know, take a moment to acknowledge all of you, be safe, have fun. This is a rare scenario that we get a weekend day to go out and gallivant with our friends. I hope you all are dressing the part. I know I am. Troy, do you have a Halloween costume ready? Troy Escamilla: Possibly, possibly. My plans are still a little bit up in the air. So it just depends on where my plans land, whether I'll be costumed or not. So but I do have one ready on the on deck, ready to go. I've done a lot of fun costumes the last couple of years here. I w I did Carrie a couple years back, which would be so frickin relevant right now. I actually won the costume contest at the garage bar here in in Vegas a couple years ago, dressed as Carrie, won $300. And then we dressed as I dressed as the nurse from Kill Bill. Well, that would have been even better. Can you imagine me Roger: Nurse three T was gonna say we're nurse three T now this year. Troy Escamilla: in a sea in a see-through stocking dress, just pr parade now? I definitely I would definitely win. Yes. I did yeah. Roger: but your costume as L driver was fucking insanely good. It really was. I I was very impressed. Troy Escamilla: yeah, L driver a couple years ago and then so yeah, so this year I do have something on dead. But again, plans it depends on where the plans fall, right? but Roger: Let me tell you what I hope you go as really quick. In my in my heart of hearts, you are going to go as Rose McGowan is Cherry Darling from Planet Tear and Grindhouse. I wanna see you waddling around with that machine gun leg. we're Troy Escamilla: I should. I should I Roger: gonna have to take you off of the kneecap, but it'll be worth it. Troy Escamilla: I could go, yeah. No, that would be honoring my dear friend Renee, who that was one of her favorite characters. She went, she even had that kind of tagline on her Instagram for a while, chair darling. yeah, so Halloween, Saturday. Yes, October's almost over. I can't believe it. I can't believe we're just barreling towards 2027. Election day is next week. Roger: Mm. Troy Escamilla: hopefully that brings some some good news ushered in after after having to watch Hollow Gate a couple times. And I'm gonna say, I mean, I don't, I don't. hate this movie. I know a lot of people probably will, right? Because it is so low budget. not only is it a trauma release, Roger, I don't know how you probably don't know this. I know this because I just know this. But one of the really obscure films we we covered several maybe a year or two back that we actually both you actually really liked it, which surprised me because it the budget is about as low as this one. Remember Epitaph? Roger: do I remember Epitaph? Troy Escamilla: Okay. So the the same the same crew behind Epitaph did this film. and they have their little production company called City Lights Entertainment. They did this film, Epitaph, and they did one other one called The Newly Deads, which, you know, I mean, know our podcast is kind of barreling towards episode two hundred, and we told you what was gonna happen after that, but I really do hope at some point in the future we could hop on and do the newly deads because it is Consider a very problematic film now. And I think that we could have a really good discussion about it. so you know, maybe let's put that on the the future, the newly deads, because then we would have covered all three of their films. But I know that one, especially being us being part of the queer community, definitely has some problematic vibes to it now. but Hollow Gate, would you say Hollow Gate has some problematic vibes to it, or just just the problem is the movie was made in the first place? Roger: I don't wanna treat this film like it's my least favorite film we've ever covered, because that's not the case. I think my gripes really like lie within the storytelling itself. the script is painfully simplistic and really there's just so many moments in this film that feel so bloated. It's already a short film, like it's under an hour and thirty minutes. so it's you it's a shorter film, but so much of the film are just moments that like I feel are very unnecessary. I would have much rather have received a lot more background and exposition around the main antagonist and really the main character of the film, Mark. This is a rare scenario where it feels as though the villain is the focal character and the heroes are more secondary. It's almost l a structure along the lines of a House of a Thousand Corpses, where this is just one villain here, but he's significantly more interesting and more centerpiece than than the protagonist. And so I feel that with that being the case, it would demand and it would require a significant amount of backstory that made this character very interesting and intriguing. And instead, what you get are like an array of vignette moments. None of which feel at all really connected. that like I guess could be what progressively led to his current state of mind at the time of the majority of the film. Once once we actually get into what is the bulk of the film, you find out this character is mentally unstable and it's very vague. I don't know what it is, I don't know what's wrong with the guy. But apparently all of these different things that have happened to him, have left him in a state of mind where he is So unstable that he needs to be sequestered like Bell in the West Wing and medicated and have a team of doctors and so forth and so on. We learn all these things about him, but it's hard, it's really hard for me to pinpoint like what truly this character's main trigger point was. You know, and I think that right there is the biggest issue within the story as well. You have a character who is full of pageantry. I mean, truly, this character likes to put on a show, but when When I know such limited information about him and his backstory, I guess it doesn't really matter. It just kind of feels very throwaway. and that's a shame because I do feel at times the actor playing Mark is willing to jump in and give it his all, you know, to the best of his abilities on this rather independent budget. I just feel that the character really deserved more. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, we're discussing nineteen eighty-eight's direct to video Hollow Gate. Not to be confused with Hollow Lake. This is Hollow Gate. 1988, it looks like it could have probably been filmed a little bit earlier than 88. I don't know. it definitely has a really cheap vibe to it that I think you're going to recognize. the very f the very first scene looks literally it was filmed with a camcorder f in 1984. that's the quality we're getting. The sound in this scene is particularly awful. I will say things things improve technically as the film advances, but the the first couple the first scene is definitely really rough. And I agree with you, this character of Mark, I think okay, so we get this opening scene, all right, and it's supposed to be like a glimpse into what made him the monster that he ends up being, but For me, it's not enough. it's really like you get you get Halloween vibes right away. Again, they don't really carry over into the rest of the film, but over the opening credits, you're seeing a lot of Halloween decor, pumpkins, witches, skeletons, decor that is decorating this house. And what you find out is that you are at a Halloween party full of kids, and they are just having the time of their life. The mother or whoever this is, the lady, the grandmother, it's Mark's grandmother, we find out. This is years ago when he's a kid. she comes out, she's like, who wants to bob for apples? The kids start bobbing for for apples. They're doing great. Bobbing for apples, by the way, is fucking disgusting. If you I'm glad I don't know if that's still a thing. Is that still a thing, Roger? Because that is fucking gross. I remember like as a kid wanting to keep what people wanting to bob for apples, and I would look in there, you could just see all the saliva just floating in the water. I'm like, Even even as a kid I knew that was fucking gross. Roger: Well, even especially right now during RFK's tenure as and Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: what what what is his title? What does he do again? Yeah, fuck that. Anyone that sounds like that should not be a health secretary. I Troy Escamilla: Is that a health secretary or something? I don't know. Well we're about ready. We're gonna Roger: don't think any of us need to be bombing for apples either. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: at this time when measle outbreaks are all the rage. But Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: yeah, these kids here my I my my issue with this sequence, because you're already Touching on it, and I just want to expand on this is normally when you're going to set something up like this, I would expect to see these children being, I don't know, horrible. And I hate kids, but like these kids are just having a fine time. They're bobbing for apples. They're doing what you do. And then off on the sidelines, you've got Surly Father drinking the night away. he's got a whiskey drink, he's got every drink, he's got all the drinks. Yeah, he's got all of them. Troy Escamilla: vodka drink, you got a whiskey drink, you got a vodka drink. Yeah. And he's just glaring at he's just glare he's glaring at the kids the whole time. Roger: Pissing the night away. He's glaring at the kids. And here's my issue, Troy. Is this the first thing we see, first couple minutes introducing this angry dad. This is the only time we see the dad is in this scene. I don't know his name. I don't know what his relationship with his child has been up to this point. But clearly this man has a drinking problem. Why are they throwing a party for all of these children? When this man is going to be so problematic. Like, don't tell me you didn't see it coming, Grandma. Like, you've been dealing with this for a while. It's obvious. And he's just sitting there and he's glaring at these children. And it's not like the children are shrieking and breaking things. They're like pleasantly giggling and enjoying their apples. And then His son in the homosexual rainbow clown wig goes to bobble for an apple, and apparently it's just what not up to par with the dad's expectations? you're not bobbing good enough. Let me drown you. Troy Escamilla: Ha ha ha. Roger: Let me let me physically grab my son in front of this crowd of children and their parents who watch on in fear as I force my child into this bucket of of water and apples and the kid's gasping for air, his rainbow wig is wilting all over his face. And the grandma comes in and she's like, What are you doing? He's like, Don't tell me how to handle my son. It just is it becomes really elevated. Things escalate very quickly. And I just question Troy I question the setup here because this just doesn't seem like something that's new for this household. And I need to know more. I need to know the who, what's and whys of it. And unfortunately, we don't get that. Like we get this scene, and then all of a sudden we're off to our first time jump. And it just feels very abrupt. Troy Escamilla: Again, but here's the thing is I don't think yeah, it's it's horrible to try to drown your son. Yeah, I'm not saying that, but I don't think this is a a severe enough glimpse into what this kid has experienced to to be able to justify this kid turning into this like homicidal maniac. And you know, it it obviously isn't a new thing because after you know, after the grandma saves him, and there's this whole scene where the kid and the grandma are sitting in the kitchen and the kid's like, I hate him, grandma. I just want to come live with you. and I I he he always hurts me and I know he hurts mom because I hear her I hear her cr crying at night. And I then he's like, I hate Halloween. And that's just like that's we're just supposed to be okay. Okay. And then it yeah, then it just does a as a brub cut to ten years later. That's all we see that we never talk about the dad again. Roger: This next bit the first of the what is, two is it two time jumps or is there even a third? There's two there's two. Troy Escamilla: There's two there's two time jobs. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Roger: I mean, the I would have just streamlined this whole weird neck segment with this couple that we're about to meet, 'cause it really is irrelevant. Like it it really has nothing to do with the story, even to the point that later on you have those cops who are like recalling all of the the awful things Mark has done, and they never Bring up this specific flashback, they instead talk about another flashback that's severely more extreme. And I question like why they even wrote this into the script. I feel that they could have given the initial time frame, him as a child, a few extra minutes, some more explanation to give the viewers a a good understanding of the severity of what it is this kid is going through. Because you are right. while this scene is shocking and it's definitely an example of child abuse, I don't think it merits the extreme outcome and how Mark comes to cope with all of this. Because what he ends up doing at the end of the film, or not the end of the film, but like what the reveal is, is what his character shtick is. is clearly tied into what what he says about hating Halloween. But that's like all you get. that's it. The kid says, I hate Halloween. I don't even know why he associates Halloween with his father's abuse, because that seems like it's something that goes on all the time. So why is it even Halloween in this moment, Troy, that he has an issue with? why is he associating this specific moment, this specific day, with this all encompassing child abuse? It just seems very forced. And I just really think that they could have used a little more time fleshing out this this initial setup. to really make the rest of the film have have more impact, have a have more of a punch to it. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, because there is there really is no punch. There's no real payoff with this particular scene because you because you just jump ten years later, Halloween night. you got this random couple, parked in the field. They're outside on a blanket, just just making out in their Halloween costumes. And eventually they get up because they they need to get to this Halloween party. the guy Is like, we're gonna stop at the gas station and get gas. And I also hear that that fucking that weirdo Mark is working there now. So they they pull up to this gas station and Mark is just sitting outside waiting for a car to pull up. When the car pulls up, Mark gets up and goes and greets him. And the guy's like, here, these were the days, Roger. Give me a dollar and gas, he says. A dollar and gas. So he gives him a dollar. And the whole thing is this guy's like, Do you think Mark's ever had gotten gotten lucky with a girl? And his girlfriend's like, probably not. And he's like, well, let's show them how it's done. And these two in the front seat start just making out. while Mark is trying to wash the windows, he's like reaching down this between this girl's legs. He pulls her panties off, Roger. And when Mark walks back over the window, he's Here, give me another dollar in gas and take, why don't you take these with you? And he hands them these girls' panties. I I I don't I don't know. Roger: This whore just taking off her panties for any man who comes by. No one's getting my panties. No ma'am, I need those. I don't have enough. I gotta order some more panties. Troy Escamilla: Well well I thought they were going to a party. She's gonna be pantiless at a Halloween party. But Roger: What if someone throws her skirt up or something? like Patty Simcox in Greece, you know how they throw her skirt up and she goes running off. Well, this girl's Troy Escamilla: Ha Roger: hoo-ha is gonna be out for the world to see because she gave Mark her panties. Th also, what about this sex scene that they have like right beforehand that's like truly the well, this physical contact sequence Troy Escamilla: God. Is it a sexy they're they're just Roger: that they have that is the least intimate scene I've ever seen in a movie. It's supposed to be sensual and she's just laying there like a piece of cardboard Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: and he's like touching her and no clothes are coming off. she's just laying there with a slight smirk on her face. She could really be doing anything else right now. It'd be a lot more exciting for her. Troy Escamilla: And did you notice they're just parked alongside the highway? there's no privacy. Roger: Just fucking on the edge of the road. Just fucking at the edge of the road for all to see. What if a school bus drives by? That's a felony. Like you can't be fucking out in public like that. But these two are fine with it. I don't know. This is all nonsense, really. It has nothing to do with anything. Troy Escamilla: This but this it it doesn't, but just how far this escalates. I I don't know if you're a if you're a straight man, and who it's that's a question. I don't know if Mark is a straight man. I have my doubts about that. There are a lot of homosexuals in this film, but my god. There this Roger: Same. Especially after he dresses up in that goddamn riding suit. Boy, boy. Troy Escamilla: film let's also acknowledge this film is full of homosexuals. that's Roger: Yeah. Troy Escamilla: a but like okay, if you're if you are a straight man or if you're in are you really gonna get so offended that you gotta pair a you panties that you're going to proceed to put them in the gas tank and light them on fire as the car and as the car pulls away, it explode the fucking car and literally kill these two people by blowing up their car with them in it. And then calling the police and and gleefully is this not a dead getaway that you were probably responsible? Like he calls the police and he's like, Yeah, I have a car explosion here. The the nine one ones ladies is is it an emergency? He's like, No. It's already exploded. And by the way, happy Halloween. And he he gives us like laugh. Like how so what investigation was done, I wanna know. Because I feel like arson investigations would r reveal what happened real quick. Roger: Real quick, real quick. this is the eighties, but still, I I don't feel like this guy was discreet about shoving those panties in that fucking gas the gas tank and lighting it on fire and then it just blows up at a distance. it's like it's actually a an effective explosion, but this poor couple burning alive in this vehicle after fucking in in front of that gas station. at least they went out strong. but you know, I think one of the things that I think is an issue With the initial setup leading into this, is one thing that he says as a kid that is so toss-away is he says that. Because of how his dad treats him, all the kids make fun of him and are laughing at him and all this. And I think that w maybe that was supposed to imply that, you know, moving forward to that tenure time jump, that h that's consistently been an issue for him, that he has been made fun of his whole life at that point. But we certainly don't see enough of that. Like we see the incident with the dad, but we never see any of those children mistreating him or mocking him or Making him feel less than. So when we suddenly have this moment where at first when the couple's talking about him, I didn't even remember the kid's name was Mark. So I was like, wait, are they talking about the same person? And when I saw their first interaction, I'm like, why is everything so weird between these people? why are they being so mean to him? Cause I just didn't feel that the takeaway from the initial setup is that he was bullied by his peers. He was having a party. it just it doesn't seem like it connects. So whatever, he kills this couple and it would be a fine sequence, but it's just it's never mentioned again. It never comes up again. In fact, it it transitions to what is now like another time jump, but this next time jump is also like not the focus of the story. It's like another, like I said, like a vignette moment, just kind of depicting something awful that he does again that is really Unrelated to the main story at play. So I was I just feel like they could have cut one of these. Like either cut the explosion or cut this whole thing with the shop girl. Either way, I mean, I mean it makes him look like a creep. He does seem like a a fucking creep the way he handles this. And it's clear that something's wrong with him. But I'm getting a lot of little weird depictions of what his problems are. Nothing feels consistent, nothing feels like. I can easily pinpoint what his actual issue is. And so now with this situation with this girl here, it becomes like a matter of sexual assault. And to me, that is completely different and very far off from everything that we've seen from him thus far. Like even with the whole thing with the panties and him blowing that car up, if anything, he was offended by it and he he chose to blow the vehicle up. So now why is he like sexually assaulting this girl? It just doesn't feel like it. make sense for the character, but again I don't really know anything about the character. Nothing's been consistent. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. yeah. And I I don't get necessarily that this couple was being r tr really mean to him. Yeah, they were yeah. that their intentions I guess were a little bit malicious, but it wasn't it wasn't like direct and vicious to me. but yeah, he blows them up and then we cut through was it two years or three years into the future? It's Halloween again. All this is taking place on Halloween. You got this gal working at a convenience store, and he goes in and he is like awkward awkwardly attempting to Ask her out. And she, I mean, she is a bitch. Like, yeah, you can tell she's acting disgusted that he would even consider asking her out. He's like, I want to take you out for an ice cream. She's like, I don't like ice cream. Get get away from me. And so she tells him to leave and she's walking through the store doing her thing. And then he shows up again and he's like right in front of her. And he and he's like, Please, I just wanna I just want to take you out. Do you like movies? And she's like, No, I told you I don't want to go out with you. I don't like movies. You gotta go, Mark. So She thinks he leaves. You see him actually take the keys out of the door so that he can get back in. And you do get the sequence, where he comes back into the store, and he's stalking her through the the dark aisles. He confronts her, she's screaming, and he's like, I just want to take you out. I just want to take you out. And she grabs that knife and she says, If you stay away from me, or I'll, you know, I'll kill you, Mark. And he grabs the knife blade and she pull and like pulls it, pulls his hand down it so it slices his hand open on purpose. He does this himself. And she's starts screaming and then he starts choking her. but the the weird choices here is it just it cuts. Like it just cuts away. You don't you don't necessarily see what happened or how this ended. it is revealed through the dialogue that we have in this next scene. that I d he did I don't think he killed her, right? She she got she didn't he didn't kill her, but he does assault her. and it is just a and it is a very weird jump to make from a killer who doesn't like Halloween, and he's gonna kill people that either laugh at him or there he's there's something connected to Halloween that makes to to to sexually assaulting a a a girl. I I don't I don't know that that is a I don't know. There's a a bad taste in your mouth a little bit. Roger: And it's not even just the assault, it's also this weird character trait that he develops where he just it's not just that he doesn't like listen to what people say, it's almost like he just doesn't even process things that are communicated with him that are not in his favor. Like if anybody says or does anything that goes against what he wants, his wishes, how he envisions things, he becomes irate. And reactionary. And so, like, this girl declining him, he just won't take no for an answer. And where did this come from? where did this specific character flaw come from? Because we didn't see it really on display previously. We saw him working at that gas station. We saw him fill up the tank. We saw him get pissed off. We saw him blow up the car. But now he's like not taking no for an answer. And maybe if it was something, and I'm not saying I want to see this, but maybe if the scenario was depicted that he w he was a as a child a victim of of ongoing sexual assault and it was an ongoing trend that we saw, you know, whoever it was that was doing that to him, ignoring his his pleading for them to stop or whatever it may have been. So now for him, he's developed this exact same trait or something. At least there would have been some like connectivity. Again, I'm not saying I want to see that depicted in film, but It's not like the results are in any way affiliated with the initial cause of his problems. They're like two separate things. He just has all of these weird flaws, and none of them feel connected. So this whole weird moment with him coming in and demanding that he take her to a movie, and she says, I don't like movies. And already she's left a bad taste in my mouth with that. But she holds up that knife and he grabs it and Now, so he's not feeling pain. So he's almost becoming like a Michael Myers-esque level of crazy. And it's just all over the place. It's really all over the place. And maybe it's progressing, maybe it's getting worse, but the way they're showing it with these time jumps is just not clear. I like moments within the sequence, the stalking sequence of her walking through the shop with the knife. That's all really effective. But because I'm so confused by his character and how he's being depicted. It's hard for it to be scary at all, And it's also shot clunkily, at least for some of these moments when, you know, when he's creeping through the store and he's just looking at her, it's really hard to identify where they are at in accordance with with one another, where she is at in the store and why she doesn't make a run for it. She just kind of backs into a a corner and he just walks right up to her. And it it just feels clunky, but there are elements that I enjoy. It's just Very cheap. it's very low budget, extremely low budget. So that certainly doesn't help any of this. But yeah, I don't know, we're off to the next time jump. And this whole scene here, introducing all these characters, all of these legal professionals that never come back into play again. I really don't feel this film finds its footing until past the 20-minute mark, because all of these little time jumps and all of these weird little cutaway sequences and everything just they don't feel connected at all. Troy Escamilla: But the okay, so this scene, I guess that you you got two you got two lawyers, I think. Like a lawyer representing that that's representing Mark and the lawyer that's representing this girl's family, and they're arguing with the judge about what should be done to to to Mark. Okay. And ultimately, like the one judge is like, he's a f excuse me, honor, he's a fucking nutcase. If we let him out, he's gonna chop some, you know, he's gonna chopping some girls up into little pieces. And then you got this medical or the psychiatrist that chimes in and says, Well, I t I did all the I ran all the tests and did all the examination, and he's perfectly normal. He's sane and normal, and he doesn't belong in a mental facility and he doesn't belong in jail. and we learn that his grandmother is rich and she has offered to basically take him in and provide him with the medication that the psychiatrist suggests he takes and and doctor visits and things like that. And the judge is like, okay, ultimately that's what I'm gonna do. The problem I have with the scene, Roger, is that it's all this is all told to us again by the cops. we we didn't need this scene. The scene has is repeated to us later on with these two cops. And honestly, cut one of them. I would say cut the cop shit because the cops shit, we keep getting this cop shit interjected into some of the more high energy parts of the film. And I'm not saying this film ever ever is elevated and where you're gonna be on the edge of your seat, but there are some pretty, for this type of film, low budget film, there are some pretty high energy, the film starts to pick up its pace a little bit. And then all of a sudden, bam, you get slowed down with these two cops. I think that this, if you were gonna have this scene, you could have cut the cops telling us the exact same thing 20 minutes later. Roger: Yeah, and even instead of bringing these cops in in general, because they don't come in until the halfway point. So then there's this other pair of characters and we're like, who the fuck are these guys? And you know, w aside from a few specific characters over the course of the film, there's a lot of characters that come and go, and so it's really hard to form a relationship with any of them. You know, don't care about many people in this movie. so I I agree with you on that. I I would have almost preferred that you get all this interesting backstory here with the lawyers and the psychiatrist. And knowing what we find out that he ends up having, we we end up learning eventually that Mark has this in-home medical facility that the grandmother has built into this mansion. and like I would have kept the psychiatrist around. I would have developed that character. I think that would have been a really interesting and probably necessary angle to elevate this material to really give more of an introspective exploration of what's going on inside Mark's head. I think we, the viewers, needed that because he almost feels like a caricature of a crazy person. nothing really feels consistent about him. And I think having kept That angle could have done his character a lot of justice. I was hoping. I was actually first time viewing, I was like, good, they're bringing a psychiatrist in because I have no idea what's going on with this guy. I really don't know what his problem is. And I was disappointed that, not only does he not come back, but none of these lawyers or anything have any real impact on the story. It it's such a a throwaway scene in the sense that it's not like you even see him go into go into the courtroom and like get the verdict or anything. These characters never interact with him. It's just completely on the sidelines. And it just doesn't feel like warranted. we didn't get we didn't need to see these characters. We don't end up learning anything more about them. I don't know any of their names. It just felt like a really weird choice to give these individuals a moment. Troy Escamilla: and then it does cut to the grandma's house, Hollow Gate, this this large gated estate. Okay. The grandmother is apparently really wealthy. She owns half the town. and so she has she's downstairs hooking a new rug. And she, realizes, maybe I should go talk to to Mark. So she goes up to Mark's room and he is he's in locked in a room, and she talks to him through an intercom. and she tells him, Hey, Mark, I think that it's how how are you feeling? He's like, I'm good, grandmother. I see you're taking your medic medication. And he says, Yes, grandmother, I I I learned my lesson. I I definitely will be taking my medication. And she considers this, and then she finally says, Hey, it's a nice night out. Would you be interested in in coming down and watching me work on my rug? And he says, Yes, grandmother, I would like that very much. And you know, you can tell she's a little hesitant, right? she says, Are you sure? Are you up for it? And he's Yes, grandmother, I'm totally up for it. Let me I'll come down and I'll sit with you. So this grandmother, like, let's mark out of the room. And he goes down into her sitting room and he sees the rug that she's working on. And he's like, grandmother, it's beautiful. You know, and she's like, thank you so much. Have you know, you can sit and watch. And you know, her back's to him and she's telling him, you know, Mark, you know, Halloween is coming up. And I was thinking that maybe we can have a few people over. W w what would you think about that? and you know he's does he doesn't answer her. and she you can tell she's like, shit, what's going on? And when she turns around, Mark is standing there with a pair of scissors. And he starts like what's he say? He said, you wanna to be a happy Halloween for us nutcakes? Is that which all you old bitches want? Is Us nutcakes at Halloween. And it she's like, Mark, what are you talking about? And he has scissors. He's like, Happy Halloween, you old hag. And he goes towards her with the scissors. the scene cuts. I think it could have been highly more effective if you would have gotten to see their relationship a little bit more. But him killing his grandmother the first opportunity he gets, it is it is pretty shocking 'cause she seems like a nice old gal, just trying to do right by her grandson. But I I didn't get enough of their relationship together to for it to pack the impact that I really think it could have. Roger: Disappointed in this development because at up to this point, I feel like everybody that was meeting their fate at his hands was somebody who genuinely wronged him. And we had those moments earlier of Mark confiding his grandma and her being the only one that cared. And then you have this scene where she's being unusually kind and gentle with him, all things considered, you know, knowing that he is sick and violent, you know, and she still opts to let him out and sit there and watch her build that awful rug, that horrible fucking rug of the three wise men. It's so ugly. but this poor woman, Troy Escamilla: yeah. Roger: she's so nice, I would have appeased her as well. And then, you know, she makes like a comment that he misinterprets. And that's enough for him to kill her. And it just feels again like, where's this guy at? what is his MO? you know, w I guess he's progressed to the point he's so bad now that anything that mildly irritates him is going to drive him to kill somebody. That's kind of boring. You know, like I don't I just feel they're trying to give a guy with personality. And eloquence, the irrational nature of a Michael Myers. It's like they tried to kind of take a Hannibal Lecter and a Jason Voorhees and mix them together. And I don't necessarily think those two things blend, you know? So for him in this scenario to kill his grandmother, I just think it goes against everything they've been establishing about the character this far. And I was really hoping that there would be some element of humanity to him. that would leave him to at least cherish this this character because he has nobody and so now that he's killed his grandmother, like it just I guess I guess nothing's off the table. And I just I find that boring. I think that there needs to be some complexity to a villain or or something that makes them tick beyond just their drive to kill. it just I don't know. It it it just seemed like a a really big choice relatively early in the film, and I just don't think it was the right one, but that's my my opinion. I wish they would have kept her alive longer. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, me too. And I I also think after after this happens and then what with our we meet our four protagonist characters. And I think that with these characters, it just shows that they're not really following the the rules that they establish because so far we're led to believe that yes, he is killing people who he thinks have wronged him or rejected him or made, you know, acidine comments towards him. Like he interpr he he misinterprets the that what that grandmother says. But these four kids who ultimately end up being like his main victims in the film, they absolut they do absolutely nothing to him. so there that go who's out the window. But after he kills grandma, or we we assume he kills grandma, we are introduced to our four young protagonists. You got Kim, her boyfriend Alan, Mandy, and her boyfriend Billy. And we find out they're traveling along in the van in a van and they are going to a Halloween concert at the hangar. And this hangar place is in Oklahoma. And I guess they're all excited to be going to Oklahoma because the drinking age in Oklahoma is eighteen s at this time, so they're they can legally drink. So they're all excited. Roger: Is that a thing? Was that real? Troy Escamilla: I'm I don't know. I'm s I didn't do my research into that. I'm I'm assuming maybe. I don't know, but they're all excited. And even fucking Billy, he he wants to stop at the very first s shop that he sees as this k gas side gas station cafe thing and he wants to get a submarine sandwich and some beer. These the folks in this movie love some sandwiches, Roger. They love some sandwiches, whether it's a submarine sandwich, a meatball sandwich, they love them all. Roger: I love a sub sandwich as well, but Billy cannot get enough about him. He's talking about him. He's talking about sub submarine sandwiches and what Bruce brings up multiple times. these characters are fine. I mean, okay, like who who the fuck are they? Not like it really matters. We don't really learn a lot about We got a guy with glasses. We've got two blubbering women who are incompetent. And we got one guy who might be a closeted homosexual wearing a Canadian tuxedo. And I'm cool with that. and yeah, like I mean, these characters are fun, but I don't know. I just feel that We've just met so many random individuals up at this point who have come and gone like it's fucking munchkin land. They are floating away by bubble left and right. And you now have these four new characters driving in. And I just feel that at this point in the film, what is it maybe like 25 minutes in now? And Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: these characters really are just there to be harassed and killed. Again, very House of a Thousand Corpses, if you will, you know? It just feels that they could have probably found some way to tie these characters in a little bit better than than the setup of what it is, I understand they gotta find a way to get him the costumes because that becomes a major playing factor. And that homosexual basically sends these kids to their death here in a moment. but it just I don't know. It feels like I don't know where these kids are coming from. I know they're coming to drink, they're coming to Oklahoma to drink it. 18? Okay, that's fine, but I just wish that I would have had a little more setup so that they felt a little more important. Because I just don't care about them. th they're they're really just there to mostly be sacrificial lambs at this point. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of little bickering between them, but they do have they do have a good camaraderie together as friends. But again, I'm just going by what we see on screen. There's really no we we get zero backstory. I do think Kim is is pretty un uninteresting as a final girl. rough to look at. but I mean okay, so we're yeah, they they there there there's moments and also like when they seem to be really in a hurry. But yet they have time to stop and go to this fucking costume shop, right? So they're in this costume shop, and Kim fixates on this wig, Roger. And this is just it's just a tinsel wig. There's nothing remarkable about this wig. It's literally a purple tinsel wig. But she thinks this is the most awesome thing she's ever seen in her life. She wants to wear it to the concert. It's $9. She wants Alan to buy it for her. He tells her he can't because he doesn't have the money. She gets all mopey. And the shopkeeper comes over, this flaming homosexual, and he's like, are you all interested in that wig? And Alan's like, well, no, we can't afford it. He's like, well, I might be able to, I might be able to help you out. I have my my delivery boy called out sick, and I have these all these costumes that need to go to Hollow Gate. And they're like, holler gate, what's that? And it's like it's an estate up the road. It's just a big estate. There's it's a gated community. I just need you to to deliver these packages for me. And if you deliver these packages for me, I'll I'll pay you with the you can have this wig as payment. Roger, my ass is not gonna go deliver 20 boxes of costumes for a wig. I'm just not Roger: For that cheap fucking wig? Troy Escamilla: I'm not doing I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. Roger: For that cheap fucking wig, that purple wig, I'd be like, you better throw in four of those wigs and costumes to boot. I better look we better look like the cast of gem by the end Troy Escamilla: Ha ha. Roger: of this if we're delivering all these costumes for you with that goddamn wig. Yeah, that's not a fair trade. That gay knows how to work the system with his dangling earring. but they seem fine with it. And pretty soon they're lugging these packages. And let me tell you, these are some big ass packages. I don't know how they fit all those packages in their vehicle. The size of some of them boxes of costumes. but they agree to it. And I gotta say, we haven't really mentioned this, but we've been in the the mansion a couple times, the hollow gate, because they're about to pull up to it. And it's a grand property. And I don't have any idea how these fucking filmmakers managed to procure this very beautiful location. I mean, this house is massive, it's grand, it's on a big piece of property with a gate. At certain times it actually looks really nice on camera. There's several moments where they light it with like a blue light coming through the glass that I think looks really pretty. and this is a pretty ugly looking film. it is a very cheap film made on a very cheap camera, but there are certain times where it looks better than it should. many of those moments, many of those sequences revolve in and around the house. but yeah, that's all it takes to get these fuckers. to lug it out there and drop off these costumes when they're missing this goddamn this concert, I'd be pissed off. And I would definitely be like, God damn it, Kim, I can't believe you sold us for that fucking wig. Troy Escamilla: And then she never even wears the wig. where's the where's the wig? Roger: She should be wearing that wig for the whole fucking rest of the film. Troy Escamilla: Where's the wig? We never see it again. Roger: Imagine her running across that field and they're like, Kim, run Troy Escamilla: my god, I need listen. Roger: and her running desperately, arms flailing, Troy Escamilla: With that. Roger: with that purple fucking wig billowing in the wind. That would have made this movie a lot more exciting. But unfortunately that wig never comes into play again. Troy Escamilla: No, no. But they do deliver. And they were just saying how they they were running out of time and they needed to get to the concert. But now they're gonna make this detour to drop off these packages. it is gated, so they have to ring the buzzer and the the voice over to the intercom lets them in. He Alan says, Hey, we're with the costume shop, we have the costumes. The gate opens and they drive up this long driveway to this beautiful house. Yeah. And they get all the boxes out of the ho out of the van and knock on the door, and lo and behold, Mark answers. Let's him in. Now, the these kids do absolutely nothing to him. They do absolutely nothing. They deliver these packages. he notices right away the that Alan has his keys hanging out of his pocket. And he's like, because they're like awing over this house. Especially a camp. She's like, my God, this place is so beautiful. He's like, would you like a grand tour? And they're like, well, I suppose we can do that. And so he's okay, come right this way. And as he walks past Alan, we see him grab Alan's car keys out of his pocket. And he gives them the tour. And they're like, man, what do this house is amazing. You're so lucky. And he's Yeah, I guess I am lucky. But I have one more thing I need to show you. He's like, Hey, Kim, come with me. I don't know how he knows her name. No names were ever exchanged, but he's now calling her by her name. And he leads her into the like the sitting room. Where the grandma was making that goddamn ugly rug, and Kim just you hear Kim scream immediately, and the others rush in and she's pointing. And we see grandma up. I don't know if she's hanging, if she's like she's up against the wall. Look, she looks like a like she's covered in like cobwebs now. I'm like, how long ago did this happen? But she has the scissors in her eyes. Roger: it's a really cool visual. Her skin is like milk white. the wound to the eye is pretty gnarly. And I I actually thought it was a pretty striking visual, all things considered. But my problem is the build up to this is non existent. you just said these kids did absolutely nothing. In fact, they did him a favor. They dropped off these fucking costumes. And he was like, No, no, no, let me give you a tour of the house. And if I was these kids, I'd be like, listen. I gotta go to this fucking concert. It has been hours. I have been traveling all around this town. I do not know. I am eating sub sandwiches. Like at this point, I just want to go to this fucking concert. And this guy gives him a full tour of his mansion. I'm sure it took like 30 minutes. And they're just walking around, gawking, like, I guess. Okay, sure. and then he's like, Yes, I need to go to the other room. one moment. Kim, can you come help me? And she's like, Okay, sure. Sure, I guess. And she just walks in and screams and sees a body. And we're off to the races. I mean, it goes from zero to 60 out of nowhere. And it really is an example of a film where it's pretty clear that there wasn't a solid understanding of how to build and develop tension, at least in the sense of s when telling the story. There are a few sequences that come a little come up a little bit later that are action sequences. that are actually effective. I will give this film that, but in the sense of storytelling. This is very flat cinematography. This is very just by the numbers, telling the story and nothing more. And I really think like if they're trying to give off this whole creepy factor that he's kind of plotting against them because they've arrived at his house, I think they could have done this in a way that would have been a lot more it would have given, I think, viewers the sensation that we're a few steps ahead of of the victims. and so that we are in on it, but doesn't feel that way. It's abrupt. It feels really surprising when he just reveals this body. You're like, really? that's it? there's not gonna be more of a build up. There's not gonna be like a Texas chainsaw massacre, interacting with the victims and playing cat and mouse before they actually attack. Nope. No, he just shows him the house and then he reveals his dead grandmother. And that's it. And now it's a a stock and slash film all of a sudden. they take off running, they're freaking out, as you do when you see a geriatric woman with scissors sticking out of her eyes, and they're running to the car, they get inside the vehicle, they look over, and he's like, I've got the keys. And they're like, fuck. And then they're like, Well, I guess we gotta take off running. And that's what is now the rest of the film is just these fuckers running around this property. For another forty five minutes. I just feel like we could have gotten to this whole exterior of the house aspect a little bit later in the film. I really think that they could have done a better job of building the tension and un like letting the story unfold a little bit more within the house before they just hit us with that corpse reveal. What do you think? Troy Escamilla: Mm. it's this is yeah, it's super rushed. the setup is virtually non existent. there's no suspense, there's no build up, it's just, here we are. And then when they do realize the their keys are they don't that he has the keys, they run to the gate and we find out the gate's electric electrified. So when when Billy touches the gate, he gets shocked. And then they they're running around in the they're getting in the bushes and hiding and there there's a lot of conversations with these with this group of people about what they're gonna do, how they're gonna get out, where they're gonna go. And as they're talking about this, a c a cop car drives by and they try to get the cops at the car's attention and they they the cops the car doesn't see them, the cops in the car don't see them, and then all of a sudden you cut to the cops. and these cops are just talking about as they drive by Hollow Gate, the one is like, you have yet to tell me about the the the mansion and the people that live there, the the the the old woman and her her son that's apparently a nutcase. and then this officer proceeds to tell the his partner that he thinks Mark was responsible for killing two kids three years ago. Why didn't we see that? They found these kids at the bottom of a well cut up into little pieces. and then he c he decapitated a dog, Roger. Anyways and this is where the whole conversation that just to that took place Earlier with the judge and the lawyers comes right back into play here. It's repeated almost verbatim. The grant he spent some time in the hospital. His grandma paid to get him out. She made a makeshift hospital room for him that she got the state to declare as an annex of the actual real mental hospital. And she paid for doctors and his medication. And then up until about two year two two weeks ago, he was declared normal. And all of the doctors and his crew were were dismissed but he's like, okay, how's that sound? I want to stop for a meatball sandwich. So they stopped for a meatball sandwich. Roger: you and I would be stopping for a meatball sandwich as well. Troy Escamilla: That sounds really good right about now, actually. Roger: my god, I can't get enough of meatball sandwiches. But that's beside the point. my gripe, aside from what you just stated, which is this is just reiterating a lot of points we heard earlier. One thing that is completely new is this whole revelation that apparently Mark abducted and killed two kids and their remains were found at the bottom of a well like cut up into pieces. Did I get that part right? Is that what he did? Troy Escamilla: Yes, cut into the little pieces little pieces. Roger: And to top it all off, when he was arrested, he was found decapitating a Sheltie dog. And they kept talking about how nice that dog was, that he cut off its legs and put him in a stack and all kinds of sick shit. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: And listen, if things really got that bad, if they escalated and got that bad, I think what he did to that girl earlier was pretty bad. But really, we should be seeing this. And no, I don't want to see a Sheltie getting murdered. That's the last thing I want to see. But that's a severe jump from anything we saw in any of those previous time jumps. Well, I mean, maybe it's not a big jump from blowing up a couple in a vehicle. That's pretty severe. But killing kids and dismembering them and killing dogs and all that, that just seems like sick fucking shit. It's not even shit that he's doing out of vengeance or doing because he's been offended. I doubt those two kids offended him and he killed him and cut him up and threw him in a well. And that dog didn't do anything wrong. I know that for a fact. They said it was a very pleasant dog. So again, this is going against everything I think I know about this character thus far. And now he's just killing blindly. He is just killing anyone. He's killing grandmas, he's killing children, he's killing Shelties, and now he's gonna kill these pleasant 18-year-olds who just stop by to drop off packages. This guy's really bad at selecting his victims. I wish. His motivation felt more, I don't say empowering per se, but made me as the viewer at least feel a bit like, okay, this guy's fucking awful, but at least I can s get where this is coming from. Even in certain interpretations of Michael Myers and Jason oftentimes gets infused with a lot of elements of like sympathy. Leatherface has had that angle before. They're not always just portrayed as cold-blooded killers. And this is a film that really set it up so we thought we were going to have a character we could be sympathetic for, or towards, or rooting for to a certain extent. If you're gonna show me that scene of that kid getting drowned in that fucking apple bucket, then it better have a purpose. There better better be a reason for it. It better tie in to the the rest of that character's journey. And now, as far as I'm concerned, this character isn't warranted or deserving of my sympathy. this character is just a sick, cold-blooded killer who will kill anybody without rhyme or reason, and it just makes him strictly a bad guy and nothing more, and it makes him significantly less interesting because of that. Troy Escamilla: And I just have a hard time believing that if he did all this, if he chopped t kids up and threw me a well, decapitated a a Sheltie, I I I just don't buy that he'd be out. you they there's obviously people in the town that that know or think that he did this, And so how is he just out? And how is he declared normal? And it's just it's it's it's a ludicrous setup. The whole thing is a ludicrous setup. everything that's like the ludicrous setup w from The very beginning of this film, everything is just ludicrous. How these kids get to that is just it's all so ludicrous. And so now you cut back to the teens, and they are, you know, they're again, they're creeping along this property. I mean, I don't even know if this is the same. It looks now now, it looks looks like they're in the middle of a goddamn, I don't know. This doesn't look like a the property of of a of a well-kept estate. I mean, now they're having there's tumbleweeds and dirt and everything, and it just looks very like. almost rural Texasy. It's it's a weird sp dynamic compared to the house and what we see from the house and all the lush greenery around the house. So how fucking big is this estate, I'm wondering. Because now it looks like like I said, it looks like we're in the middle of a fucking Texas desert. And so they're creeping around. I think one thing this the script also does really weird with these characters because these are supposed to be really young characters and Some of the dialogue that these characters have together just seems really I get what they were trying to do, like, we're trying you're trying to make you real feel really sorry for these characters, but what they're saying just doesn't match their age. I don't know. It's real weird. But they they find this garage, okay? And so they're all debating what what are we gonna do? We should go into the garage. Maybe there's a car because there does seem to be a road that leads beyond the garage. Kim's dumbass. She's like, well, maybe there's a shovel we could dig our way out under the fence. Bitch, you that you realize how long that would take? Come on, Kim, get it together. Kim is k I I say I know I'm not trying to be mean, Roger. but Kim is rough to look at. close-ups on her face, I it's it's a it's a hard watch, especially when she's trying to cry and stuff. It's just like, back the camera off a little bit. Roger: Beyond being rough to look at, she's also just one of the more pathetic women we've encountered on Dark Knight of the Podcast. Both of these gals. There are points where they're both hysterical. and i they're not doing a lot for the w the women's movement. I'll say that. Like these two gals are th some of the weaker depictions of of female characters from the era. You know, we've seen a lot of girls in in eighties horror films fight back and Fight back with everything they got, and and you would think at this point that these two girls, at least one of them would have some chutzpah, you know, would have a little bit of fire in them, and neither of them bring any of that. In fact, the men are like dragging them along. And I don't know. I mean, you're absolutely right. Like Kim is hard to look at, but a lot of it's because she's just whimpering and just like giving up Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: the whole time. There are points that they're literally physically dragging her. There's a point where they get in a golf cart and she's just limply hanging there in the seat to the point that when they turn a corner, she just Troy Escamilla: Ha ha ha. Roger: falls off. Like really, these women, these women are so pathetic. And I I wanna root for them. I certainly do. And it's not like they're not capable of defending themselves, but because the final 10 minutes of the film, one of the characters actually ends up pulling all the stops, and it doesn't feel like they deserve it at that point. It doesn't feel like they've earned it. I really wish that they would have set these girls up for a little more success. because yeah, the way I mean, honestly, the way all of these characters are portrayed, they are all kind of pathetic. At least Jimmy is willing to go in and like make a run for it and try to get inside this garage and try to find a vehicle. and of course he's going to be the first one to be dispatched here in a second, which is unfortunate because he's the only one that's really given his all in the moment. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, yeah. you got there are very distinct well, maybe I think Kim and Kim and Mandy are pretty much very similar personality wise in terms of how they're portrayed in the film. But I think you do get like Alan who is I mean he he Alan gets hysterical himself. Like you get Al like it's really interesting because like Alan here it in points of the film is shrieking like a banshee. Like you would expect a a woman to d be doing. He is just shrieking going like insane. And you got fucking Yeah, you got Kim just looking as pathetic as possible, just not saying anything. but this moment with Billy volunteering to go into this garage while the others wait outside, I think was a terrible decision. They all should have gone in. and even he suggested and and Kim's like, No, we're I don't want to go in. So he keeps he tells Alan to stay out with the girls and and and watch them and he'll be right back. And so he goes into this garage, and we've seen throughout this whole conversation, it keeps intercutting to Mark putting on his first costume. Because that's the shtick in this film, is every time from this point forward, every time he kills one of these kids, he's wearing a different costume. The first costume he puts on, Roger, is a army, like army costume, camouflage, army, you know, soldier. And it is a little bit jarring because he does use very racial derogatory terms throughout this entire scene as he is hunting these particular characters. He's using a very derogatory term. I don't know how he knew that Billy was gonna go in and look in this precise car. because Billy goes in and he's in this garage. There's one car he opens up and looks in to see if the keys are there. They're not. He goes to the second car, opens it up, looks for the keys. They're not in it. So he just backs away against the door, defeated. And Roger, all of a sudden, out of the backseat jumps Mark and he plunges a fucking butcher knife into Billy's stomach. It's like happy Halloween, racial slur. And, you know, I'm like, wait, how would he even know? Like he would just wait in the back seat for some I just Really weird. But not not as weird as Billy stumbling out of the garage, with a knife in his stomach, being like, Al, Al Buddy, Al Buddy, I'm I'm dying. Help me, Al Buddy. It's like, why isn't he calling for his girlfriend? He's calling for Al. It makes for a real weird dynamic. you would think the girlfriend would be who he was calling for. He's like, Al, Al Buddy, I need you, buddy. Roger: Feel the reason you call it for Al is because that girlfriend's a fucking idiot and he knows she's Troy Escamilla: Ha ha ha ha. Roger: not gonna be able to do anything. I mean, I liked this moment. I thought that the stab actually was really well played. you know, it it's shocking enough. Like you know something's gonna happen, but I think it's shocking really because all of a sudden you're seeing Mark in this different costume and persona, and like they hinted at it as you saw him opening up the costume packages and like running his hands over top the military wardrobe. But seeing him in the costume is still jarring. And I think it's because he adopts this whole persona, this personality that goes with it. And after seeing the film, I now know that's that is the shtick. But upon like your first time seeing him in this wardrobe, you know, he's a totally different personality. And you're just kind of like, wait, what? Okay, like I'm just gonna go with it. I see what they're trying to do here. And again, this is going to come back to my complaint that the initial setup for the film is just too understated. I really think that they could have gotten this idea across earlier in the film and clearer and tied this in better. Maybe putting him in a clown costume at some point that resembles the one he wore. They could have done a lot of things to really cement this shtick a little bit better. I mean. At the end of the day, I now know that he's gonna put on different Halloween costumes, and that's going to become the persona, the personality that he adopts while he's in the wardrobe. And that's fun, but I just think that nothing that he's done so far, as long as we've known him, has reflected that. This is now another new development for this character that isn't connected to anything else we've seen from him. And so It just it makes his character even more convoluted and it just gets very overwhelming with all these personalities. But it also gets fun because the character is at least allowed to Flex his acting muscle, I guess, like to the best of his ability, which ain't saying a whole lot, but he has some fun with it. And I can appreciate that. I didn't even know that word was offensive. I don't know it. I'm not familiar. That's disappointing. You know, I've now since looked it up and understand what that means. I mean, I guess I suppose of the era. But I will say that I didn't personally mind the moment of Billy walking around the corner and revealing his wound to Alan and asking for his help because I do like the fact they let him like bleed out and suffer a bit. this could have easily been just a moment where knife to the stomach and then mark. comes around the corner and he's holding holding a decapitated head and that's it. something like that. And then the character is just dead. I like that the character that he toyed with him a little bit. Mark's following behind him and making fun of him along the way. And, you know, everyone else is screaming but can't really do anything. And then he fucking chucks that battle axe at his head and perfectly hits it in the middle of his skull. and it makes for kind of a shocking visual and a really violent kill. For this movie being so cheap, I think I would just expected the kills to be lackluster. And I will say, this first major kill here actually surprised me. well, second after the grandmother, but you know, that was a cutaway. But this you actually see it, and it's not completely incompetent. they actually pull off a pretty effective kill. And you get a few scenes like this where they actually take their time. with some of these kill sequences and try to make them standout moments. And I will give this film that that when it does try to give you a big kill scene, at least they, do everything within their ability. Even though their ability may not be that great, they still put a lot of effort into these kills. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, it needed this. It I think that needed this first kill to be as violent as it is. And yeah, unfortunately it's it's poor Billy. Billy seemed like a likable enough guy. but we it really lets us know, hey, this this movie isn't gonna fuck around with these kids. they these kids are definitely in in danger big time. I really just don't I don't like I guess I don't know. This is the pacing gets real weird because you get these moments like this that that, you know, they should let linger a little bit longer, but then instead they cut right away to the cops. Back to the cops. And I'm sorry. I mean, I don't the c these cops are just plot devices and I really don't care about what they're talking about. you know, they're they they they pull up into the the cafe or the diner, whatever it is, the same one that the the kids were at earlier, the when they got the submarine sandwiches. They go inside, they have a they sit at a booth, they talk to the owner, they talk to the owner, Andy about how dead it is in the restaurant. He's like, it'll probably get busier later when that Hanger party lets out. we've had a lot of kids in here earlier that were on the way to that party, blah, blah, blah. Just a lot of back and forth, small town banter that I don't give a shit about. And then they order us a meatball sandwich. I mean, this could have been cut and it would not have changed the you don't need you didn't need this. Like it should have kind of stuck with the kids and lingered with them and let us see their reaction like in real time, like right after this happened, because you get this. Four minute scene of these cops talking about meatball sandwiches and your your place is dead. Hopefully business picks up for you. And then you cut back to the kids and you see them being devastated, comforting each other. Mandy is particularly upset and this was the moment where the director is like, this could win you the Oscar. So really, really give it your all. You know, 'cause she's like, I loved him. I really did love him, even if I smarted off to him, I loved him. And then she talks about like, we took our time with our first time having sex and it was last night Roger: And I think the other two are just like, okay, Troy Escamilla: Uh-huh. Roger: like this is not the time for it. But no, you wouldn't know it because it doesn't cut away from Earth for the entire fucking monologue. Whoo! One issue I have, meatball scene moving forward, is these scenes start to become real long-winded. Everyone's got a monologue and they milk it for every fucking drop. I mean, everybody. Everybody's breaking down. First, it's it's Mandy, and she's got that fucking seven-minute long soliloquy that she gives, just mourning, mourning the love of her life. I loved him. and she's going on and on. And I haven't noticed up to this point, but this girl's teeth are jacked. Like, I think she's got braces, but like, I mean, I thought she had fangs for a moment. I was so confused. And maybe it was just like the poor quality of the film, but no, it really looked like this girl has some bad teeth. And She's just talking and talking. And I'm like, you guys could be running. You guys could be fleeing at this point. Why are you letting this girl talk so much? And it doesn't stop there. Al starts talking. Kim starts just crying all the time. And yeah, it feels like every five steps, they're stopping and having these big fucking dialogues. And it really it it disrupts the pacing for me. I know you mentioned the cops. I know you said that you feel they disrupt the pacing. I get why they're giving them some moments because the cops do technically play a very important role in the conclusion of the film. I still think that the characters are completely underwritten and I don't care about them. But I do think at least in the sense of the production of creating the film, they realized, like we're introducing these cop characters. We have to do something with them. We can't just introduce them last minute and have it be that. Like we actually have to give them some time on camera in order for this ending to have any heft to it at all. they just give them too much and they're talking about things that really don't matter. but I don't know. My my big issue is really just the fact that every time these fuckers stop running for a moment, they have these big spiels of dialogue, and it's always just them improvising. their way through b a breakdown and it's never very good. Troy Escamilla: No, and they're crying and shrieking. And for people that are trying to avoid the killer and not let him know where they're at, they're just shrieking. You got Al shrieking, We gotta hang on. We all just gotta hang on. And he's trying to comfort poor fucking Kim, telling her, Kim, you gotta talk to me. Talk to me, god damn it. Come and and then they yeah, so they they finally get it their shit together and they keep they continue onto the property and they come across this vast Fucking field, Roger. This looks like the field from the opening credits of Little House on the Prairie that you got Melissa Gilbert running through. This is a vast fucking field. I half expected to s I really Roger: It is a huge fucking field. Troy Escamilla: half expected to see Laura Ingalls come running out of the fucking field towards us. Roger: I can't wait one day for you and I, Troy, to go back to that. What was that valley with those goats? Troy Escamilla: yeah, we're going there. Roger: my god. We're gonna have to go back there and put on petticoats and go running down those mountainsides with pigtails, rolling down the hills, just like that little house on the prairie intro. But this moment is not very little house on the prairie. This moment is actually kind of intense to be like generous, I'll say. Troy Escamilla: It's Roger: I feel like I'm being a little generous, but when this moment hits. It starts to hit. Troy Escamilla: this is the most memorable part of the film. Like this is the scene that I remembered from this film. Like when any if anybody ever, if I ever saw Hollow Gate or anybody ever, this is the scene that I remember. watching it, I I mean it's still effective. I I st I don't get why they just all three didn't just run across the field. I I guess they're they're trying to like, well, if he he he could he he could get all of us if we go all at once. But they decide that they're gonna go one by one across this field, right? And Alan's like, I will go first, and then I will signal that I'm safe. Just watch for me. I'm gonna throw my hand up and I'll signal that I made it across. And then Kim, you come next, and then you'll signal for Mandy to come. So that's a so Alan goes darting across this field, into the dark. He makes it across, he signals for Kim. she's like, Kim is a fucking mess. She can barely fucking stand, let alone run across this field. But somehow, Roger, she makes it. She makes it across. And they then signal for Mandy. Okay. And now it's Mandy's turn. And she starts casually, running across the field when all of a sudden, you see, because actually now he has that is it like a it's like a farmer like outfit he put on. And cowboy Roger: It's a cowboy. Troy Escamilla: farmer, yeah, I don't know, overalls and yeah. And so he's on this giant like land what is this, a lawnmower or like a huge field tiller. it's a giant tractor and the bullet that has two huge wings with blade circular blades that drop down on the side. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know Roger: For wheat, I think, right? Troy Escamilla: the name of it, but it's it's it's horrifying looking. I wouldn't want to be run over by this thing. But she's here's the thing, here's my problem. When you're talking about worthless characters, these gals being worthless. She sees him. He is literally probably still a good quarter of mile down the field. What does she do? She literally stops. And watches him perform the whole thing where he puts puts all the blades down. He she's just standing there, mouth agape. Even fucking Alan is like, come on, bitch, run. Why are you just standing there? but but then it starts coming towards her and she's still just standing there. Finally. Roger: Compare the pacing of the scene, Troy, to the moment in Austin Powers when that, that what is it, like a steamroller is like inching towards him, and these other guys like stop, no, and Austin Powers like on it. He's like, get out of the way, and she's like, Stop, no, and Austin Powers is like, move, get out of the way, and then ends up running the guy over after like five minutes. This is how that felt for me, Troy. That machine is terrifying. But girls like a raccoon standing in front of a pair of headlights approaching from a mile away, just watching it. she literally just stands there and she's like, my God. As the thing slowly emerges from the darkness, and then it like it's like a transformer. It slowly starts to unfold, and the blades slowly start to fold out. It's a whole process. The guy's pushing buttons and pulling knobs and doing all these things and she's just standing there like, my god, what do I do? By the time he even got the thing moving, she could have been all the way at the other end of that fucking field. So she absolutely deserves her fate. But it is an effective moment. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, so f when she finally starts to run again, he's made it. Right, he's practically on her. And I I was shocked by this that he pulls out a shotgun. I forgot about this part. I in my mind I had thought she just fell and he ran runs her over. No, he pulls out a shotgun and he shoots her in the fucking stomach. and she falls into the middle of the field. She can't, now she's fucking helpless. Alan rushes out to try to help her and he pulls the Mark pulls the gun on Alan and tells him, you know, stay back. Or I'm gonna shoot you. You're trying to get are you trying to get my woman? I'll get I'll t and then not only that, he shoot he shoots Alan in the leg. l you wouldn't know it for the rest of the film that Alan's been shot in the leg, but he does get shot in the leg here. Roger: He got shot in like is that was is that the femoral artery? Troy Escamilla: Ye yeah, it's like the top of his leg and then they don't really Roger: That's the femoral artery, I'm pretty sure. that's the upper thigh. That is a that is a vital vital area for him to be shot. He wouldn't be walking. he's full sprint. Troy Escamilla: You you you Roger, you sure wouldn't know you sure wouldn't know it for the rest of the th cause he's full spritting back to to and then the the two of them just have to him and Kim have to watch helplessly as Mark proceeds to drive this giant lawn mower, field mower over poor and she's trying to crawl away, Roger, but she's been shot in the stomach. She's screaming, she sees this thing coming over. they I think they do what they can with the budget. I'm not mad at the the effect. that I think they do what they can, which isn't very much, but it's still it's something because they show they do show him on ride it and you see it like bump up he runs over her and then it cuts to her and it's real close up on her face as she's screaming and blood is just splattering her face. That's the best they could do, but it is still pretty effective because this would be a very horrifying death. Roger: This moment hits its fever pitch for me. when she's shot and then he's shot, and all of a sudden now he's injured, and you're like, my God, this guy's just take him out one by one. And he starts driving towards her. She's on the ground, and she starts just screaming, like, God, help me. And it's so pathetic and sad. And she eventually just she's dragging herself, but she can't get away. This thing is massive. She just rolls over on her back and just accepts it. And it's actually very, very sad. yeah, you're right. Like, you know, they could they never show her go under the blade. They clearly couldn't pull that off. But for what they were able to do, and the machine in general, like, you know, I've we've we've both said multiple times, the machine is very intimidating. So that alone gives a scene a lot of oomph. but they I think this is actually a quite a successful sequence. You know, from the moment they reach the field, the whole run across. One thing I want to acknowledge about the camera work is again, this is like a pretty this is a pretty shitty movie overall. This is a low budget film, but every once in a while they'll hit their stride and there's several moments where they go into like a first person perspective of them running, you know, whether it be running through the house or running through the fields. And it's I got almost like an evil dead quality to it because it's pretty smooth, it looks pretty good, and it definitely adds to that frenzied, kinetic energy that the film really needs. Cause a lot of it feels very still. Once in a while, though, it it hits it. And this is one of those moments that hits it. I love the shots of them running through the grass. I really thought the machine was intimidating. I can't believe dude now has shot two people. and yeah, so Kim helps Alan get up, they take off running. And I'm really just shocked at how fucking shitty Alan gets with Kim. I know she's a sack of potatoes and she can't do shit. She's weeping. She's like a jello mold. She's just not able to do anything beneficial whatsoever. But he starts like shrieking at her and like hitting her. And Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: it's just it starts to become almost a case of domestic violence between these two. And I'm like, dude, I get it. You've been shot. You're bleeding. You're in a lot of pain. This is not helping right now. It's certainly not helping me as a viewer wanna root for you. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, she's just limp, limply flopping around. He's like, God damn it, Kim, God damn it, you gotta talk to me. You got God damn. And he's shaking her. But then it then it abruptly cuts back to the cops in the in the shop eating their meatball sandwiches, talking about what brought them what brought them each to the town. Okay, so you get that. And then it cuts back and you have Alan now having his little breakdown where he's like, I can't believe they're gone. he's hyperventilating. I can't believe they're gone. my god, I can't believe that So, then they see this golf cart. This has to be the most puzzling thing because Alan's all of a sudden he's like, Kim, we have to get to that golf cart. It's gonna get us out of here. How the fuck is a golf cart gonna get you out of here? I I don't what was he gonna drive it through the gate? I I don't know what his thinking was, but he drags fucking limp ass Kim onto this golf cart. She's sitting on it half-ass, and all of a sudden the lights turn on, and now Roger, Good old Marcus dressed as a jockey. and this okay. These pleasant golden retrievers are the the Roger: I'm waiting for this, Troy. I've been I've been chopping at the bit waiting for this moment. Well, the moment I saw these two golden retrievers, I said, that's Troy and me. that's our next Halloween costume, 2027. Watch out. We're the golden retrievers from from Hollow Gate. But it's not like here's my thing about these Goldens. You know that a friend of the family that was making this film Had a pair of golden retrievers who were trained like fake attack. that somebody happened to have two goldens, and they're like, We'll work them in. it makes sense this rich old Broadway to have two beautiful Goldens, and he does say that he's been starving them since he killed his grandmother. but still, I I struggle to find these two majestic creatures at all intimidating. I mean, is this probably my favorite scene in the film? Yes, I absolutely, absolutely. The moment the two Goldens ravage and kill a man really came out of nowhere for me. And I was pleasantly surprised. But it's not like these dogs are presented as rabid. It's not like these two dogs are like, yeah, they could have been Dobermans or I don't know. There's so many other breeds that are more intimidating than these beautiful Goldens with their flowing hair. But I mean, they do look majestic when they're running. I'll say that, Troy. What do you think of these Goldens? Troy Escamilla: Well, hey, they're hungry. And I I I love the he he releases, he's like, look at you two. You haven't eaten since that old bitch died. and he releases them and you get this moment where where where Alan like fli It's so funny. Alan floors the golf cart and takes the corner and fucking Kim flies out. Roger: Well, I I love that Kim. Like, Kim has to be aware that this is a moment of fight or flight. I mean, would be if I looked over my shoulder and I saw two fucking beautiful golden retrievers coming at me full charge. I would snap out of it for a moment. But she's just sitting there, arms dangling, like she looks like she looks like like weakened at Bernie's. Like she's just so she's just like flopped there and he turns the corner Troy Escamilla: Ha ha ha. Roger: and she just goes over the edge of the the Of the golf cart without even trying to like support herself. Like it's so pathetic and it it makes me mad because really it is Kim's fault that Elle ends up getting attacked and killed here, Troy. he stops the golf cart to go to go get her and then he turns and coming at him like a freight train is that one golden who full on sprints and launches itself. And I mean, I'll never look at a golden retriever again. After this scene, this man is devoured by these two golden retrievers. They're on top of them, shaking them, their their fur sparkling in the moonlight. Troy Escamilla: Tails Tails a wagon. Roger: He's shrieking like a woman. And it's kind of horrifying. It's horrifying, but these dogs are really the last thing I expected at this point in the film. And I'm happy. I'm really happy that they were introduced. Troy Escamilla: well yeah, so Alan is mauled to death by two golden retrievers and Mark walks over to to Kim. He's like, well look at you. Look at you looking all pathetic. I guess we gotta get you to the hospital. Roger: Kim, for the love of God. I I get it. You were just thrown from a golf cart that was moving maybe five miles an hour. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: Like you're not injured. Why just give up? Run, do something. It is really upsetting that he she literally just lets him walk over and like taunt her. And apparently I guess he just Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: maybe picks her up and walks her o back to the house. I don't know. doesn't seem like she's putting up a fight anymore. Troy Escamilla: No, no. And so he's he g yeah, he tells her he's gonna take her to the hospital. And now we cut back to the police officer still in this restaurant. and I this scene I guess is it is is crucial. This is this is a crucial scene with the cops because that fucking costume, flamboyant costume c owner, comes into the restaurant. He's like, look, the men in blue. And I don't know if I don't know if I'm misinterpreting the cops' looks. did you see how they look at him look at him and then look at each other? Was is it almost like they're I dare I say being like making fun of him or like something 'cause he's gay? Did you get that vibe? Roger: I absolutely got that vibe, Troy. I definitely Troy Escamilla: Okay, okay, yes. Roger: took that as them being like, boy, here's the here's a flamin' homosexual coming to try to have a conversation with us. How dare he? Yeah, no, it really felt kind of homophobic for sure. That wasn't Troy Escamilla: It was unfortunate because I actually I well well I th find a lot of their banter unnecessary. I thought the cop characters were they were I like I liked them but until this moment. But they do it is revealed by the costume shop owner because he's this gay is he is so mad that his delivery driver doesn't didn't show up that he's telling everybody. He's like, I'm d firing my delivery boy on Monday. He called in on Halloween and the cops like, Well, what if he's really sick? And they're like, No, he how he's not really sick. It's it's Halloween, how convenient. I had to get some some random kids to deliver the costumes up to Hollow Gate for me, he tells the cops. And the cops are like, Costumes at Hollow Gate? Yeah, he's Yeah, they're having a big Halloween party there, apparently. And these costumes were ordered. And the cops are like, wait, we just drove by Hollow Hollow Gate and it looked dead. Like there was no party going on. And it's like the one cop's like, It's weird that his gr the the grandma would be throwing a Halloween party. And the shop owner's like, No, no, no, it wasn't the grandma that owned Own the cost or order the costumes. It was the grandson, Mark. And the cops look at each other and they're and you sent four kids to deliver the costumes? And he's like, Yeah, why? There's nothing wrong with them anymore. Is there? Is there? So luckily the cops do catch on. And I do like the cops, the fact that the cops are like, okay, we need to check into this, like ASAP. So they even like get on the restaurant phone and call the the mansion. And of course, Mark doesn't answer because. Inside, he has captured Kim and has her strapped down to a small medical table. He's now dressed as a doctor. and he has her on this operating table. And he's just like there's there's a bottle of ammonia. He's talking to her about like removing bad feelings from her brain and like sore parts of the brain that that that need to be removed because they can consume you. It's almost like he's talking about himself in a way, right? What he's been told all his life, probably going to these psychiatrists and doctors, that he has a bad part of his brain. Even his grandma earlier in the film makes a comment about that. About, he's just had a bad time. You've just had bad, bad so he's repeating all this and he's going to cut into her I don't know who he's planning on giving her a lobotomy, it sounds like. What do you what do you think his plan was for her? Roger: I think he doesn't really know any of the shit he's talking about. I think he's just going through standard doctor jargon. But I really think he's gonna give her like what? is that bleach or ammonia? Make her drink something and then he's gonna s he's got that knife there on the counter. and so yeah, I think he was just gonna make her drink that poison and frickin' cut her open. Troy Escamilla: Luckily, she I I at this point for her to do anything is is a miracle, but she does loosen her straps enough that when he goes in to give her, he's like, you need to take your medicine and it's a b it's a cup of ammonia he's gonna make her drink. Luckily her hand gets loose and she's able to bash his hand and pour the ammonia into his face and of course he's screaming, he's his face is burning, he's like, you bitch, and she gets her other hand free and like he gets up to attack her. And she grabs the butcher knife that he had and just plunges it into his stomach. this happens really fucking fast. There's really no fight or anything. he just comes towards her, she plunges it in his stomach, and they that's it. And then we cut to the cops coming on their way. They're like, we gotta get there, we gotta get there. back at the house, he's like chasing her around the house, taunting her. the knife's, he the knife's still in his stomach. She's trying to get out. He's like, nope, nobody's getting out. Nobody's coming in. She's running through the house, running through the hallway. She gets trapped at the end of the hallway. And just as the cops pull up, and the one cop goes up to touch the gate and the other one's like, no, no, it's electrified. Don't touch it. And up at the house, she picks up that vase and hurls it at him. Of course, it doesn't hit him. It actually hits the window and breaks the window. And the cops hear it. And then they hear her scream as he's approaching her. And she does like punch him in the stomach where she stabbed him. And Roger: Mm. Troy Escamilla: at this point, she's able to run past him. She kind of gets into a bedroom and hides. The cops see that there's the breaker box that's controlling the electricity. So they shoot it out and the gate opens and they drive up there. And you get, I mean, it's it's get things are going pretty fast because Mark does find her. Like he's you might as well come out, sweetie. I'm gonna give there's nowhere to hide. I know where you're at. And the cops get into the house, and there's the moment where, like, I mean, they talk about Nick of Time, right? Perfect timing. Cause he has Kim on the bed. He's gotten her out of her hiding place. He has her on the bed. He's has his hand over her throat. He has the knife. He's gonna stab her. The cops burst in the room right at the right moment because they hear her screaming. And they waste no time shooting him in the head. Not once, twice. Roger: For the entire length of the film now, it has been really evident that the character of Mark has been focal and all of the other characters have really been Sidelined for the betterment of his story. So unfortunately, like this group of the four protagonists, we really got to know very little about them, aside from the fact that they love meatball subs. Or that they they love submarine sandwiches. and that's that's really all we know. And aside from that, you know, Kim is probably the least developed of all four of them. Even the character Mandy had that. Big fucking monologue where she talked about how much she loved her n recently deceased boyfriend. Kim hasn't had anything like that. As soon as shit hit the fan, Kim started to shut down. So for Kim to now be the last one standing is disappointing in and of itself. That being said, you know I love a character who defies expectations. You know, I've I've always found it endearing when a character is able to. finally rise up last minute in the face of evil and overcome something, both within themselves and whatever it is they're fighting against. They're able to to overcome and and prove themselves more capable than they ever thought they could be. I think that that's, always a fun angle to throw in with a character like this. But unfortunately Kim's character just doesn't feel like she deserves that journey. Like even when she's fighting back, it's still kind of pathetic. But at least she gets some fucking punches in. I'll give her that. she freaking throws that bleach in his eye, then she stabs him in the frickin' gut, then she f punches him in the wound. for the last like, you know, 10 minutes or so, she's actually putting up a fight. And if they would have just given her this level of energy through the whole film, that's all I really needed. You know, I d I don't need a lot, but Up until now she's just been a blob of gelatinous goop for the most part that they've been dragging with them, And now we're finally getting something out of her. And I'm happy to get it. Like, you know, if you're gonna have her be the final girl, if she's gonna survive, she better fucking do something. So at least she fights back, but it's not enough for this character to suddenly win me over by any means, you know? she just happens to be the survivor. It's very Sally Hardisty. But significantly less endearing. a lot less likable. But, you know, she gets a few moments, he's crazy, he's now a crazy doctor, he's bleeding out from the wound, he's chasing her with a knife, whole big thing. The cops keep trying to get in, they get electrocuted at the gate. They take out the gate. You know, then they're able to get in the house. They go up the grand staircase, and there's finally that moment where they shoot him. And At least it's this big final moment where he gets that double shot to the head. that was pretty cool. but yeah, I mean just don't feel like this film could have ever really manage a truly spectacular finale because there's just not enough buildup that I'm invested in to get me to this point. I don't care that much about the characters. I really don't care that much about the villain because he's so inconsistent. and it's just, yeah, it's it's not something where all of a sudden my jaw was on the floor and I was like, whoa, that blew me away. even when we watched Killer Party, you know, overall Killer Party, we were relatively harsh on it. we called out the flaws about Killer Party, but at least once you got to that final ten minutes, that ending blew my skirt up, you know, and that was quite a finale. This gives you a finale and she fights back a little bit, but really it's just like, okay. And the movie's over. It's varied by the numbers. You know, it's of course the cops get in just in time. Of course they shoot him. It definitely takes inspiration from moments from films like a from a Halloween or something like that. Same kind of pacing. She's hiding in all throughout the mansion. Very prowler. Same kind of setup as that. You know, like she's hiding under tables, things like that. and yeah, it just it doesn't really develop an identity for itself. This film ends the same way so many other films do, and just Troy Escamilla: Well it Roger: not quite as good. Troy Escamilla: Well, and any any energy that Kim did have in the these final moments are erased with this like epilogue scene where now she's catatonic in a hospital room, you know, staring off into space, obviously just catatonic. It's whatever happened to her that she's she's a fucking basket case now, to the point where where that like the doctor comes in to give her her medicine, She sees Mark coming into the room with the knife to kill her. And she starts screaming. And it's revealed that it's just the doctors coming in to give her her medicine. And then one doctor's like, Yeah, she's completely lost. She's she's gone. which is kind of I mean, it's kind of a sad fate for this character because I believe this this character's probably gonna be a fucking catatonic mess the rest of her life. Poor Kim. but then you get the moment where like we find out we see Mark is still alive. He's in his ho he's in a hospital bed being kept alive by, I the machines and IVs in him and stuff. And the camera slowly moves around him and gets really close to the side of his face. And his eyes open up. And then the that the film ends. I mean, I guess you're gonna survive two shots in the head. I don't know how. Roger: survive it, Troy, you're a fucking vegetable. What's this man gonna do? This guy's not doing anything unless they go fucking Silent Night, Deadly Night Three. Put a metal plate in his head, which really this feels like the kind of direction that that this this film would want would have gone, if anything. I don't think it ever got a sequel, luckily. but you know, I I really don't see even what they were trying to imply with that. If anything, that finale is it's just kind of sad because Her character's so pathetic. And even though she physically rises above the moment, mentally she doesn't, emotionally she doesn't. She becomes a a basket case and gets put into an asylum. And they're freaking sedating her for her visions of Mark haunting her. Like it just doesn't feel like that ending gives any real sense of payoff. And with that reveal with him opening his eyes, like I just don't understand if that's supposed to be he's back. I I don't think he could be. This film doesn't seem like this is fantastical in any way. So for this man, I just feel more sad for him than anything that he now has to live a life as a vegetable. Although he did deserve it because he did horrible things. But yeah, I don't really understand what they're even trying to imply there. Troy Escamilla: Probably, Roger, probably leaving it open for a sequel in case it was a financial success. I don't think it was because this film is not very well known. Probably for good reason. yeah, but it never, yeah. I mean, don't know w where where a sequel would have went. There's not a lot out there on this film, honestly, if you go to try to research it. So I I I don't know if what the the plan was, but I would assume that was it. You know, most slasher movies come out of this era, they they always were thinking ahead about sequel, franchise. And maybe that's the case. But this film, I I have to guess, probably flopped big time when it and it never made it to theaters, but it probably just didn't sell or rent very well. I can't I can't imagine word of mouth was very good about it, and it came out so late in the eighties, eighty eight, when the slasher craze was over. People were people were over it because of films like this, right? Let's be honest. Films that just have no personality or identity of their own. People were just tired of it. so yeah. I can't imagine this was a success, but I guess it was successful enough for us for us to talk about it all these years later on our little dark night of the podcast, right? Roger: I don't know if I would ever say us talking about a film would ever imply that film was a success. I oftentimes think if we're talking about a film it's because it was a failure and somehow we dug that film up and Troy Escamilla: Okay. Roger: briefly gave it a second life. And luckily you were able to remember this title and give it its moment in the spotlight. It's so greatly deserved, I'm sure. Troy Escamilla: I don't think it's a must-watch. Like I don't think you need to watch this film. I I usually say, if you've not if you haven't seen the film, watch it, you know, before we we cover. I don't know that I would even suggest people doing that, honestly. I mean, but if you've seen Hollow Gate, if you did watch it because we announced we were covering it, we gotta let we gotta know your thoughts. We gotta know your thoughts on Hollow Gate. again, I wanted to pick something a little bit more obscure for Halloween. it's just a film sadly that is just it's it's the the budget constraint shine through so much and that just there's so many we've talked about this like it just has no personality of its own. It's trying to do too many things. The story is way inconsistent and yeah, I mean it's it's not a fun watch. I'd probably not watch it again ever. Roger: I would probably watch it again, just for shits and giggles. I didn't hate it that much. But yeah, it definitely wasn't something that I would say is gonna stick with me till my final moments. Troy Escamilla: No, I did. I would I said at the beginning, I don't hate the movie. I just don't think it's I don't know if it's worth my time ever again. Does that make sense? Like maybe if I was Roger: Yeah. Troy Escamilla: having a big Halloween party and I was like, I want to show the I want to just have obscure Halloween flicks playing on in the background while we're having a okay, I might play it. But it's just not a film I need to revisit. There's so many other films I could spend my hour and a half with that I've already seen that would be much more enjoyable for me, I think. But let us know your thoughts on Hollow Gate. guys, we're we're barreling towards two hundred, which you know what that means. But I'm wondering if if Roger has anything in mind for our next episode. I think after our next episode we have two to go before we hit two hundred. Roger: Yeah. Yeah, I've been torn between what my title is going to be. I feel like I wanna pick something that is on the pulse of what's popular. And so with with the Carrie series being as popular as it is right now, and we've covered many a carry. I don't want to do that, but I do want to give De Palma another moment, here at Dark Knight of the Podcast. It's been a minute, and so I figured let's let's shift away from Carrie, but let's stay in that realm. So I think it would be really cool to cover his nineteen seventy-eight follow-up to Carrie the Fury. Which, Troy Escamilla: Ooh. Okay. Roger: you know, also stars one Amy Irving. So always welcome here at Dark Knight of the Podcast. What do you think of that one, Troy? Troy Escamilla: Yeah. okay. I hey, I haven't seen that Fury for ever. You know, I thought, yeah, that's that would be a good one. I thought for a minute you're gonna say dress to kill, you know, 'cause that'd be right up our alley. But the Fury would be great. And I actually, you know, we've never we haven't covered actually a Carrie film. We covered the rage, but I'm talking we haven't covered Roger: Yes. Troy Escamilla: any of the other like the real Carrie, the the two thousand two made for television series or the Chloe the Chloe Grace Moritz one. And I actually thought about choosing one of them. but but I'm glad you're going down the the Palmarette with the Fury. I I can't wait to watch that. It's been so long since I've seen that. So long. Roger: Yeah, yeah. And I think it's it's gonna be a little different in tone, definitely more of a p a polish, a budget, the Daryl Hannah of it all. Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: so yeah, I thought that would be a really fun one to cover. but you know, this was was was quite the experience. Troy Escamilla: it's always Roger: Yeah, I I don't I don't know what my thoughts are on this film. It's so weird. I I'm happy that you picked this one because I don't think there's any chance I would have ever seen it again. aside from covering it here, but I'm happy to know it exists. I got my issues with it. That character of Mark, he's gonna annoy me for a while. What an inconsistent villain. I feel like the Fury's gonna leave me with a far more satisfied sensation than this one did, I'll say that Troy Escamilla: I Roger: much. Troy Escamilla: I bet. I bet. Yeah. So Roger doesn't know his thoughts. Again, that's perfect opportunity for you guys to share yours on Hollow Gate. And then join us for the next episode where we talk the Fury. But Roger: Yuri. Troy Escamilla: with that, guys, happy Halloween, first and foremost. And enjoy your tricks and treats. And yeah, just good night. And thank you for for sticking with us for all these years. Roger: Yes, until your n the next episode. Good night. Troy Escamilla: Good night.