Latest / Dispatched & Dysfunctional / The Hidden Toll of EMS: How This Job Changes Who You Are Over Time — Sammi Kingry

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The Hidden Toll of EMS: How This Job Changes Who You Are Over Time — Sammi Kingry · Dispatched & Dysfunctional

• Chris Stockton: There it goes. All right. This is Dispatches Functional, where we don't just talk about the calls. We talk about why they turn, what they turn you into. Today's episode is a little bit different. Not one single wild call, not you won't believe this shit moments. This one's a little bit quieter, but if you've been on the job long enough, it might hit you harder than any trauma ever has. So today I've got Sammy with me today. She's a paramedic. She's a paramedic on a city fire department, a mentor, a teacher. a wife, a dog mom. But more than that, she's someone who's lived through what this job does to you over time. Sammy, I'm gonna let you take this away. Who are you and what do want people to hear today? Sammi: Hi, I'm Samy. ⁓ Honestly, just whatever you feel like asking me today, I'm pretty much an open book. I've been pretty open about my experience in EMS with a lot of people, especially my students, and just something that they can learn from and kind of gather that while they move forward with their career. Chris Stockton: Well said. So let's see. And that's pretty much like you said in your intake is that's what we're here for. This is the whole damn episode. Cause no one says a lot people say, you know, out loud, we either pretend it, we love it or we leave it. ⁓ There's middle ground that nobody really talks about and that's where a lot of us live at. So let's go back a little bit before EMS for you. Who were you? Sammi: Mm-hmm. So before EMS, ⁓ I was originally gonna go to nursing school. So I was geared up for nursing. I was in college on advanced scholarship. I was a lifeguard at one point and then right, yeah, so crazy. ⁓ And then after college, I got my CNA license because I was still kind of gearing up towards nursing. And then I got deferred from that. And then they were like, hey, we have like an EMT spot open. Like, would you be interested? And I was like, sure, like, why not? Let's kind of like see what, where it goes. Got on there. ⁓ At first I thought it was kind of a joke. I don't even know what I expected really. ⁓ I think it was just a bunch of this. Yeah. Like I didn't know anybody in the class. ⁓ And then we're all like different ages. You had like people that were in their like forties, fifties, and then you had someone like me. Chris Stockton: think that everybody knows. Sammi: like 18 to like 20 years old. And we're all just like, ⁓ what do we do here? And I think I did my first clinical and my preceptor was one of my high school friends' dad. And that first ride out, I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I love this so much. I'm in the back of a little vambulance in like downtown of like the city of Gulfport. And I'm just living my best little life on night shift. And I was like, yeah, no, I think I like this. Like, I'm going to see where it takes me. Chris Stockton: gotcha that makes sense so on that note did you know he was a firefighter or a paramedic or Sammi: No, ⁓ so my friend, I knew his dad did something kind of like ⁓ public safety type thing, but I didn't know that he was a paramedic until ⁓ when I got to the clinical, they were kind of asking about me, like where I'm from, things of that nature. And I was like, ⁓ I went to this high school, graduated this. And they were like, ⁓ do you know my son? And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I do know your son. That's so crazy. found out that his dad does not like ⁓ mucus throw up. Thumped that out very quickly. Does not do well with that. Chris Stockton: that's common. can't say that I like the mucous throw up either, but you know if that's your thing go with it. But anyway, so on your form you wrote something a little bit interesting and I kind of want to bring it up is when did you realize I'm not that person anymore? What was what moment was that or did it just slowly creep into you? Sammi: So I think, so I was like one of the last few people to like get my EMT on the terrible test taker. And when I got my first job, ⁓ this service actually did bodies. So what that means is they picked up dead people. And you know, that was not common to me when I was going through this. had, they never told me anything that was gonna do that. And so I was probably about, maybe three-ish months in to my EMT journey. And like we were on this call and it's like the week of Thanksgiving. And it was like we were literally just there to pick up the body. wasn't like I saw anything crazy. And I'm just like, wow, we have to like see this because everything up till that wasn't traumatic. Nothing like I'd never seen a trauma, never really seen anything crazy other than, you know, just normal death. You just pass away in your sleep. You have a cardiac arrest. Nothing super crazy until that point. And then I'm going to the holidays with all my family. And the only person that understands is my grandmother. She was an ER nurse for forever, forever, forever. And I'm just sitting there and I was like, man, all of y'all are sitting here eating food. And I'm over here still thinking about homegirl on the side of the interstate. y'all just, y'all ain't thinking about anything crazy. It's just me. And then like through that, realized that like I didn't have anything really more in common with all of my friends. And I started like getting more in tune with people that worked with me versus people outside of work completely. Yeah. Chris Stockton: It's funny, that's what EMS does to us in the end is, you know, it's, it really is. It's, it's interesting, but at the same time, it's, it's humbling to know that we have people that we can depend on and we can speak to. And they have some of the same traumas that we have, some of the same issues of, I mean, hell, every time we have Thanksgiving, I always have weird thoughts because of some of the calls I've ran, but you know, it's. Sammi: Yeah, it's like a coal. you Yeah. Chris Stockton: It's one of the things that, like you said, your family either gets it or they don't. Thank God I'm married to a woman that laughs at all the crap I bring home and joke about, but my kids are interested in it. But, you know, it is what it is and we don't really, I don't know, maybe it's my perspective on it, but I don't think we really have many friends outside of EMS once we get into EMS. Sammi: Mm-hmm. I think I think I have one friend that is that has nothing to do with first responders She's an esthetician and then all of my other friends They are either a dispatcher a firefighter police officer or paramedic or like EMT like anything EMS related and then that's it. That's all I got Chris Stockton: Yeah, and like you said, it's kind of weird trying to talk to those friends that are near the first response family. It's what do do for a living? Well, you really don't want to know. Sammi: Thank you. Yeah. It's just like, they're like, how's work? And I'm like, that's work. Like, no one's trying to kill me today. Chris Stockton: keyword today. You know, and that's, guess, like you said, a lot of people outside don't realize it is, it's not one bad call that changes. It's not one bad shift. It's, it's a slow change in us that we don't notice in our day to day lives. You know, it's, it's, we, we look up and go one day, know, damn, I didn't react to things like I should have, you know, like when my dad passed, I kind of feel like an asshole, but I didn't cry. didn't. Sammi: Mm. Mm. Chris Stockton: really mourn because I'm so used to death, I guess. You know. Whereas my wife is never, we act different. Sammi: Yeah, that's I so My, ⁓ so my husband, he got into a car accident last year and he was just like, you weren't mean, but you weren't my wife. You were definitely a paramedic. Like he, he said that you had your moments of like being super sweet, super caring, but like you were definitely like such a caretaker, like more so than anything. And I was like, I don't know, man, things got done miraculously. So Beggars can't be choosers right now. It was a coping thing. Chris Stockton: Yep. funny thing, just so everyone knows, my wife's in the background laughing her ass off right now when she said that. But anyways, that's happened to me a few times as well. She's like, you're a horrible paramedic. No, I'm a good paramedic. I'm just trying to do what I got to do at home. Sammi: Hahaha! It's like essentially it's like a default mechanism like you don't know when you do it It just kind of does it itself. So like it's never that you actually turn it off. It's just down back just a smidge Chris Stockton: Yep, exactly. And then when something happens, it gets dialed back just like that. Yep. Sammi: It's it's this hair. Yeah. So no, I completely get it. Chris Stockton: And then one more thing that you said on your intake form that stuck with me is you would change the leadership in EMS, not the protocols, not the pay, not the equipment, but leadership. Why is that? Sammi: you So I think and I've only worked at really and truly two companies my entire career. This is my third like company or like department I've ever worked at. But I think if you have really, really good leadership, everything else after that can be really and truly resolved. Like My protocols, I'm gonna do what needs to be best for the patient. The equipment, I can MacGyver shit, I'm cool with it. I don't need the new monitor, I can manually do shit. I'm A-okay with that, right? But when you have somebody that promotes, and again, this is my opinion, I've never been in leadership, I'm working on it, but you have somebody that promotes and they don't have the people's best interests at heart and it's just them, it shows. It shows in the way people's professionalism is. It shows in the morale of the company. Chris Stockton: Yep. The camaraderie. Sammi: One of the services, yes. ⁓ We had, so when I first started out at my like second service, well, technically I guess I've been at four. I really just don't count the first one with the bodies. It was just traumatic. So we just scratch it, right? ⁓ But that, yeah, but like the service that really like honed me in to like grow from EMT to a paramedic, I watched four different people go like be in charge. over my like five years at that service, right? So the first one, he was okay. I mean, like the morale was still like a family morale type of thing. The second one didn't last but like a week. We don't know what happened to them. The third one, super phenomenal medic, phenomenal flight medic, phenomenal nurse, like great leader, had a shitty thing go on, had to go type thing. But I think At that point when he was like our overall like general manager, however you want to call them when they're in the corporate type of thing. That was probably the best I saw the company. Like we were getting education. We were kind of like progressing in better ways. He was coming around to different stations, coming around like when we're at the hospital was like, do you need anything? Like, what can we do? Like, is there anything that we can do better? Like, is the hospital treating you well? Like it was just so much of What can I do to make your life easier? The one that we have now was a supervisor at the time when this one was our GM. And then when he had to like step down and go out, he stepped in and he hasn't been a terrible leader. It's just, I think he lost his way of remembering what it's like to be one of us. And once you lose that little thing, just like I say, once you lose your empathy for the field or lose your interest in learning, you gotta go. So I think the same with leadership. And so it's not that he's done bad, but he hasn't done anything fantastic. You can give me blood. You can give me RSI as a medic. Treat me how to fucking cry for all I care. But if you can't make me happy at this company to want to be in this uniform anymore, then I've lost all like... Chris Stockton: 100%. Sammi: I don't care about the protocols anymore. So I think it's just one of those things like the service where I'm at now, it's not terrible. The leadership is so young, so young. Like I think everybody's like maybe 40s and below, which is crazy to think about at a fire department. They're super young, but they're trying. They're trying to like get better. They're wanting to know what to do, like how to be better. And so that one, I kind of appreciate that they want us to be better. Like they're not saying, well, you got to go do this, this and this and blah, blah, blah. And they never like fulfill anything on their end. like, they're making sure that the right now, the MS side is lacking. We'll say that. But the fire side, they have so much going for them. And I'm super proud of that, because they're showing that they care. And now EMS is slowly starting to build back up. Like we're getting auto pulses, ⁓ souls. They're asking our opinions in the field. Hey, do we like this jump bag? Like, what can we do better for our drug boxes? We have one of those big orange like tackle boxes where you can smack somebody. Like it takes a good ch- yeah. So they're asking like our opinions to want to be better and want us to like perform better. So they're trying to give us more education to push. And I respect that. Chris Stockton: That's all. Sammi: rather than just saying I don't care. Because you can pay me as much as you want doesn't mean I'll be happy. Chris Stockton: She wants someone that actually cares about the company and actually cares about the employee versus someone, hey, you're doing a good job. Here's a goddamn pizza party. Sorry, that's the life of that ground. Sammi: that part. I'm telling you that part. Because when I like I did a semester of nursing school and I was like, ask for the God y'all give me pizza. I'm gonna riot in this place. Like do not give me pizza. Like don't give me subpar shit. Like I don't want to. Chris Stockton: Yeah, I agree. ⁓ Well, my question on that whole pizza thing is, I want to know how that became a thing. How did they think that that is going to make us happy? How is that a... How is that a fucking promotional tool? Sammi: I can only thank a doctor. So hear me out. did. ⁓ Have you ever heard of ⁓ the University of Florida's like critical care program? Chris Stockton: I actually wanna go to that. Sammi: It's phenomenal. I finished it last spring. Phenomenal program. So what's so crazy is that you get to do these ICU rotations. So just like your wife said, pizza party, right? So one of the good docs on the ICU floor said, I'm gonna buy y'all pizza. And they're all fucking happy because the doctor's doing it, not the fucking management. It's because the doctor's treating them. Yeah, like they're treating you like to good pizza, like one of the good like Chris Stockton: Not the CEO, not the manager. Sammi: high quality pizza, not like not Pizza Hut, not Papa John's. No, it's like a little dutch, like the little ovens that they got up there, the brick ovens pizza. Yeah. So he spent some money because like he valued his people. But like you can't sit there and like give subpar stuff and expect here's like here's your six patients that you can't take poor and like and then Chris Stockton: Not fucking Little Caesar. ⁓ damn. Sammi: ⁓ man, you don't need no hazard pay, don't need any of that. Here's your pizza. I'm giving you pizza because you looked happy when the doc gave you pizza. That's probably what happened. Chris Stockton: Yeah. Probably. I bet that would have been something like, you know, maybe a med control docs. Like, hey, here's some pizza for the crew. And managers like, ⁓ that's a good idea. It's cheap. Little Caesar's. That's not the point, fuckers. Sammi: I swear to god I would riot if you gave me some cardboard pizza Chris Stockton: Well, that's pretty much every service I've worked at. I'm like, really? This is bullshit. Sammi: Now they at least give us some burgers on occasion. Chris Stockton: Jesus Christ. She said burgers. Yes, burgers, not pizza. Every good point. Me and Drew, they're like, hey, I know you're tired and exhausted, but here's a pizza. I'm like, we're tired of pizza. Sammi: What she say? Yeah. I'm solid. I respond to my Elani addiction. One of the tubes gotta give. Chris Stockton: Yeah, pretty much. So this kind of goes back to what we were just talking about as the culture. You also said that, you know, you would change the culture. So what part of EMS culture do you think is broken? Sammi: Mm. dude, all of it. God. I think I was talking, ⁓ well, I was talking with Sophie Fuller when we were at the Georgia EMS conference, like the Metro Atlanta one, and we were kind of talking about a little bit of the culture and the way things have, you can't be young and progress. The old doesn't like the new. And so you have this battle back and forth between the two and you're just like, bro. Chris Stockton: Yep. Sammi: Because the old, they never want anything new. They want to tell you, well, back in my day, I don't give a fuck, actually. Excuse my French. I actually don't care what happens to Like, I don't care. We can see how long it's been since you've even stepped into a conference, any type of teaching moment, anything of that nature. Congratulations, you can tell me where the femoral is, but I don't care. Chris Stockton: Yeah. No, you're good. I agree. Sammi: Yeah, like, I think it really and truly comes with like the old heads. It's, know, I don't want to say it's like a sexist thing, but you also have like you have more females coming into a boys club, but you also have like some females that are really shitty and that's a whole nother topic. But you have all this like culture that is just such like heavy minded of just being depressed all the time and burying it so deep. And now you have us, like the younger generation coming in and you're like, okay, like we want better mental health. Like we want to actually talk about mental health a little bit more. ⁓ we want more positivity. Like, why are you so negative to be here? Like I understand same shit different day. I get it. I'm, I'm, I was a little negative when I first started out with my partner, but now that I'm away from all that, I'm like, man, it's a call. You know, it's not my emergency. It's theirs. I'm going to at least get them there better than I found them. You know, like where are you going to go today? I'm happy to take you. I just gotta let you know a couple things. Let's go, come on. It takes longer for me to like get a refusal than it does transporting, but I get it. But I generally think it comes from the old head mentality that rubs off on our younger generation. And you can see it more prominent in the fire department from the old heads talking to like the younger ones. And they're like, well, we don't do it like this. You don't need to talk about your feelings. That's not what this table is for. Like they don't have conversations. and you can see it, and on the EMS side you get a salty old medic that chain smokes every five seconds with his coffee sitting in his hand and the EMT is like, I got a question, he's like, I don't care, figure it out. But then gets mad at that same EMT that can't do what needs to be done because they didn't learn it in school because that's what the job is for is to teach. Chris Stockton: Yeah Shut the fuck up. Right. Sammi: So I think it just comes from trying to pivot other people's mindset to be more of a positive learning environment because you are never gonna learn everything. You can't learn everything. And the fact that you sit there and act like your knowledge is just supposed to magically appear into their little brains just sucks. And always hating your job. If you hate it so much, there's a door. can, Bucky's is hiring, McDonald's is hiring, Walmart greeters are hiring. You can go take as many smite works as you want. Chris Stockton: Yep. And that's, that's a thing is, and that's a thing. Like you said, is the older generation is, you know, suck it up, buttercup, shut the fuck up, sit back, do as I say, not as I do. And I came from, I came from an offshore or I worked for a private company. Then I worked for a government entity and then I offshore. Offshore. Sammi: But like, you can sit there and eat your popcorn. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Chris Stockton: compared to now in an industrial site is completely different, but the same because now I work for a fire department and it's quite, like you said, the difference in the old people compared to the new people is working part-time at some of the private ambulances, I've even told people, was like, I'm never going back to private EMS again. These parent gods are pissing me the fuck off because you can do this, I've done worse and better. So shut the fuck up and listen to what I'm trying to explain to you and teach you you like you said, you don't know everything I definitely don't know everything but I can try to teach people some more stuff that they don't know, you know, And that kind of falls back to that whole thing you just said Like on my shift that I work Every one of the guys I work with have been phenomenal. I've never been a fire person. I've never tried anything fire and Now they're getting me in my gear. They're getting me to go do freaking consumption courses, they're having me work out with them. So I'm actually one of the guys with them. And if I'm on another shift, it's not the same. It's like I'm a complete different person. And I don't quite understand why or how that works, but I heard that's common. Sammi: Yep. It is so being at this department. So I'm on C shift, right? That's like the best shift. And you know, my LT will give us any and everything that we need to be better. Like I'm the highest level of care on like my shift at my station, but he's like, let's try, let's, let's learn a little bit. mess today, like teach us a little something. He was like, we want to learn a little something. And then In return, they'll teach me a little bit more about fire because I do have like my little volunteer cert that doesn't really count but counts. And so like we'll kind of like trade info, but then a shift's a little different. They're not bad. They still like to train depending on where you're at, depending on what station and who's on and then be shift at my station. They don't do shit. Nothing wrong with it, nothing wrong with it, but like you can't. Chris Stockton: you Sammi: sit there and talk crap about everybody else if you ain't doing nothing either. You're not learning anything. You're just sitting there. You're sitting there collecting a check, collecting dust in a chair. And I don't need you for that. I don't need you as a firefighter or that. I don't need you as a provider for that either. Like, I can't, I'm a doer. I like to do, I like to move. I have my lazy moments, but I just don't understand that mentality of wanting to be so... lazy in an aspect, especially in such a demanding job, like in a demanding role, because being like being a firefighter, you do need to be like physically fit for certain things. Like it is a lot of endurance. That's what it is. It's not really about being so strong. It's about endurance. then like EMS, have to be so like mentally prepared for everything. The worst case scenario, you have to like flip, like go through all of like your little Rolodex cards in your brain and be like, okay, which one is it today for like this difficulty breathing? and we got a pivot to this and then we got to that and so Not wanting to better yourself in any aspect just baffles me baffles me I feel like all shows to have the same mindset. I don't care how you do it just just feel like you should want to be more than what you are or what you started out with Chris Stockton: you should always try to better yourself. should always try to be more, even if it's just learning more of the professional side of even, you know, public speak or whatever. Like, like you said, I want to go to that ⁓ University of Florida critical care course. I've taken so many prep courses and failed them or not failed them, but I can't, I can't grasp it. I have to have my hands physically touching it. And Sammi: You honestly You would love it. I will say that course is, it is hard. like most of our paramedic knowledge starts probably right here. And the way Derek teaches is like up here. Like you're learning like in depth molecular. And I'm like, hold on big dog, you used a big word there. Let me go Google that. But after that course, it does not matter if you pass or fail, you will learn so much from that course, so much. You will have so many tools to go off of and you get to network with all of these people in your class. They're from all over the world, by the way. They're from Cuba to Canada to across the sea in the Middle East. You have people everywhere in that class with you. Chris Stockton: then. That's an interesting concept right there. I've worked with international people before and it's, it's, that's something that was interesting for me offshore is I actually learned, you know, here in the States, we are different than every other country. Mexico, I found out as the worst for medics. Europe has a bachelor's degree to be able to become a paramedic. Sammi: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Weird. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you have to do nursing and ⁓ paramedics. So it's like a four year degree. So it's like the first two is like nursing or they flop it just depends on like when you start. It's really cool. But yeah, but we have more autonomy here though. Chris Stockton: It was interesting to learn that though. It's cool and it's a good idea. In theory. Yep, exactly. That's where I was gonna go with that is. Sammi: And that's what like everybody gets so confused. They're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, like we only call when it like is a little sketch that we're about to do something kind of crazy. And it also depends on what med control doc you're about to call to. Chris Stockton: Yeah, like I told everybody, that's what I mainly miss offshore is my autonomy out there was, you ain't dying? Cool, I'll take care of you real quick. Let me call Doc. You are dying? Cool, let me fix your ass and let me call Doc, tell him you're going on a helicopter back to shore. And I've had to cath people offshore. I've had to do sutures. I've had to do resets. I've had to do all kinds of crap that we don't get to do on the truck. Sammi: Thank you Chris Stockton: It was interesting to see how some things can be escalated and properly taught. And like you said, just learning it was awesome because every Friday at that company I was working at, we would have a weekly meeting with the top side doctor that he would critique our calls, critique our work, let us know, hey, this is what you're doing right. That's what you're doing wrong. Let's work on this. Let's fix this. And it was, it was really cool because, you know, I was on a first name basis with them and I could call him like, Hey man, this is what I got. This is what I recommend. And he'd be like, well, so we'd wrote, you know, antibiotic scripts out there. So a couple of times I was wanting to do is ithomyoacin or Cipro. he's like, no, let's do augment and let's do. You know, all kinds of this other stuff. I'm like, ⁓ okay. That's a good idea. Why doc? And he would explain it to the pathological ways. And I was like, okay, I love that. Yep. Sammi: Wait. Yeah. Yeah, that go ahead and start remembering those. UF loves those animatics. They love the chart. Ugh, that sounds so cool. I always wanted to do like offshore, but I just don't know like if I could be on a little metal ride for like so long. Chris Stockton: Yeah. Well, so I worked on drill ships a lot and those held anywhere from, uh, my minimum was about 50. And then I had one vessel that had, I think it was about 450. So, and it was on the 100, 451. It was me and another medic. was day we swapped. It was day and nights for 28 days and 14 days. He was on days 14 days. I was on days. So we flip flopped up and it was, it was pretty cool, but Sammi: Please. Mm-hmm. Bye. Chris Stockton: That was the only time I ever had another medic out there with me was that one vessel and yeah, but anyway. Sammi: Mmm. Yes. Chris Stockton: Like I was in the middle of the Atlantic at one point to where a guy decided to put his head inside of an incinerator. Sammi: Well, I don't think he had any reason for that, so... Chris Stockton: Yeah, he said it was an accident. I call bullshit. But anyway. Sammi: I know. I feel like there was other ways to do that, but you know, pop off. Chris Stockton: Yeah. Well, like I told him, was like, you know, you're five days away from a boat getting to us and there's no way a helicopter in hell is getting to us. So you're fucked. Sammi: Mm-hmm. Chris Stockton: So I want to bring back what you said a minute ago, is it's okay to hate your job that you love. ⁓ That's not something people usually say out loud. So what does that actually feel like to you? Or what does that mean to you? Sammi: It is. I mean, it's okay to hate it. Like, you're never gonna have the most perfect-est day. You know how like they say, if you love what you do, you'll never work day in your life? Sometimes that can be a little shit. It can. You have bad days. You're gonna have bad days. And that is okay. It's okay to hate it for like that moment in time, but like, okay, tomorrow's a new day. Let's get up. Let's start anew. We're back to loving it again. You know, like. There are days when you're like really, really sick and you're like, oh, I hate that these people are calling me for absolute shit. I feel like horseshit. I'm running a fever. I'm literally throwing up in their yard. Like, I want to go home, but I need to get paid. So it's okay. It's okay to hate it. And it's okay to like, it's also okay to quit your job that you genuinely just don't want to be there anymore. It's okay to quit and start somewhere new. Like you don't have to only have that one job forever. You can go somewhere else. I think. Chris Stockton: Very true. Sammi: A lot of people too get so like, hung up on having to stay out of service and be so loyal. Listen, I'm an AMR, like, I'm in rehab for AMR, right? Like, that place has caused a lot of trauma and you know, I will probably die somehow still working for fucking AMR. Don't know how, don't know where, but I just know that it will happen. But like, it's like, Chris Stockton: Sounds about right. Sammi: It's okay to leave it. Like, I finally just left after almost six years now being there and it was scary. It was scary to like leave everything behind, all my friends, everything. Everything that I knew just to start somewhere fresh. But like, I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. It wasn't giving me any, any more to give. Would I go back? Meh. If they offered me the right- position in training for sure. But, but I mean, yeah, it's okay to, it's okay to hate it, but still love your job. It is genuinely okay to do. Just don't hate it to the point to where you were so miserable going in that like you can't find that love or passion anymore. Chris Stockton: ⁓ yeah. And it's like you just said, if there's not enough room for your own even mental growth or professional growth, it's time to move on. It's time to go somewhere else. You can't let yourself struggle. You can't let yourself mentally become fatigued as a provider. It doesn't help you. doesn't help your patients. And it definitely don't help your coworkers. And that's one thing that Sammi: Nope. Chris Stockton: You know, we all do have bad days, but we all, if you have bad and good days, that's, that's good, you know, but if you're always having bad days, take a look, make sure it's not you, make sure it's not what you're around. If it's the company you're at, find somewhere else. You know. Sammi: They're always happy for us. We're never going to be out of a job. Chris Stockton: Yep. So there's people listening or going to listen after I record after I send this out. So there's people who are going to be listening to it or sitting in the truck, station recliner thinking, I don't know if I can keep doing this, but they're still showing up. What would you want to say to them? Sammi: I think that was probably the biggest thing that my paramedic teacher ever asked us. What is your why? Like why are you here? Mine was, I wanted not, everybody's like I want to save a life. No, no, no. Mine was not that. Mine was I want to make a difference. don't, whether it be listening to a patient for a patient to feel heard, whether it's for a student to feel like they finally felt their niche. or like just me finding my way into a little home. I love EMS so, so much to the point to where I'm just like, man, anything else of getting out of this field just sounds terrible. It just sounds like a terrible idea because I've fallen in love with pre-hospital care. I adore it so much. But my why is because I also want people to be better than me. I didn't have a mentor. didn't have like any, any type of person to help me navigate through this. My first year as an EMT was absolute garbage. So find your why. Figure out like, do you want to progress in this? Find a mentor. Find a partner that will help you in any way. They don't have to be a mentor. They can just be a friend. But make sure you know why you're doing this. And it can't just be to help. people because everybody wants to help somebody in whatever job they're in. Like, do you want to be better at something? Do you want to be better for yourself? Like, is this something for you to self-improve on? Because it is very fulfilling in this field. There are plenty of jobs to help you feel fulfilled, but you can't just be like, I just want to save a life. We aren't there to save a life, unfortunately. Hot take. But you were there to give that patient and or person the best possible outcome that they could have with every tool that you can give them. It is up to them and whatever you believe higher up, if they are gonna like choose to do it or not, choose to live and or die. So my answer is I found your why. Chris Stockton: very well. I love that, that's very well put and it makes a lot of sense as well. Yeah, I didn't realize, like you said, when I first got into it, I was the same way. was like, I had a very shitty first few years actually, but, ⁓ and then I pretty much have the same as I want to be able to make a difference in someone's life. It's not to save them. Sammi: Thank Chris Stockton: It is to make a difference and to show them that there are still people out there willing to help others. There are still people that don't give a shit what they get in return to help you. Sammi: Nope. I think, ⁓ You go ahead. Chris Stockton: you know, and that's... Go ahead. Sammi: No, no, no, you're fine, you're fine, go ahead. It like cuts, I was like, ⁓ he's dead. I'm sorry. Chris Stockton: I forgot my heart. Find a why, find why you still do the job and also find an outlet because you can't always live with a job because you also have to find a way to also have a life. Yeah, true. Any medical field, EMS, any paramedic, you can live your job, you can do your job over and over and over. You still need to remember why you do the job, but you also need to realize, hey, once I get out of that job, I also have a life. Yeah. Sammi: Yeah. Like. Chris Stockton: That is something that she just turned up. was going to say to is we all live in this job, but we don't need to. ⁓ We don't need to the jobs kill us. Sammi: Mm-hmm. No, I- I think, um, what I think the best thing that my husband and I, cause he's also a firefighter paramedic and he's in the military. Um, what we have found has like, started to work best for us because last year was just a whirlwind really for us. With like me in school and then like his rec and then trying to like find, okay, like, is he going to be able to go back to work and things of that nature? So this year we are taking two trips. We're going on vacation. We're going to go hiking. We're going to. My goal is to hit all the national parks by like our fifth wedding anniversary. And I'm going to make it happen. Damn it. I'm going to make it happen. But we, we go out hiking. ⁓ like my hobby while he, if he picks up overtime or something of that nature, I'm to, I'm trying to go to Pilates, trying to like get out, do a little bit more, do something normal. Chris Stockton: Hell yeah. Sammi: And you know, like when we're together, we go hiking, like he's about to start going fishing and rock climbing and something with a mountain bike, mountain biking. No, can't do that one. So he's got to find a friend for that. ⁓ But like we're trying to find like hobbies outside of the job because we have just buried ourselves like so hard in it that we're trying to find what we like outside of it. And then like what we like doing together outside of it to kind of like keep. keep our marriage alive because you know divorce rates are so prevalent in this field and it's just because like we're married to our work. We're married like our spouse spouse comes second and it's not like meaning at least in my opinion it's not meaning. I know people cheat but that's their own beef. They got something else wrong with them but but like my thing is is that I'm married. I really am married to my work. It's because I love it but like your wife was saying you know you got to find something else out of it and that's what we have tried to do like this, this whole year. That's what we're trying to like figure out is what do we like to do outside of this job? Cause we need to find something else. If not, our marriage maybe, I think our marriage would fail, but it's generally, we can't, we can't just have this. We have to have something else in between. So I think that's what a lot of other people need to like realize too is who are you outside of the job? Are you a good spouse outside of the job? things of that nature, need to kind of have self-reflection because yeah, the job will be there, but that job will replace you in a hot minute. So yeah, like your spouse is supposed to be like your one and only person and things. And that turd is my bestie, so I'm gonna keep him as long as I can. Chris Stockton: ⁓ yeah, we're just a number. Sammi: So that's my little ramp out. Chris Stockton: So I got you. You're good. Have you ever wanted to walk away from the job is a better question. Sammi: Honestly, yeah. I was in advance, so I was just finishing medic and I had, and honestly I say this to this man's face, so I don't really care. I had probably the worst supervisor. I mean, he's cool and everything. Worst supervisor, worst advocate for anybody. Like, not a fan. We also had a couple EMRs. work that somehow got grandfathered in. I don't agree with an EMR type of thing. That's another thing for another day. However, me and this other truck, we both got off at 630. I had class. So I had to be at class at think, I think at nine. We had to be class at nine. If you're late, had to take your instructor, all the things. So, and then you get like points deducted because you don't get like your hundred for your being there on time type thing. And I a trauma on the state line and I had no med, no like ALS. So they said, hey, your car has been flipped three times and two are ejected. And then you also have one with possible hazardous material that's flipped over with a patient inside of that. So I'm sitting here and I'm like, ha ha, you're lying, right? You're lying to me. It's me and my partner is also an EMR, but she was, she technically should be an EMT right now, but she is probably one of the better EMRs, I will say. But again, I still think that you should have tested. However, I get it. But this one specific EMR didn't tell her paramedic partner that they had a call and that call was to come back me up on the interstate of the state line. So she calls the set supervisor, said something about her kids. And granted, I totally understand if your kid is sick, they are dying, something is happening. But childcare? I'm a little finicky. I'm a little finicky if you're just saying childcare so you can go get them, not because something really is important happening. No, Miss me with that one. You have a job. You knew what your job entailed. Do your job. So. This EMR decides to call the supervisor and says, oh my God, my kid, I have to go pick up my kid. Your kid's like five minutes away. Like, your shift change wouldn't have been, like, you maybe would have gotten off like 45 minutes late had you came to this call, took them to the trauma center and got back. 45 minutes, really, really 45 minutes-ish. So, I had, I'm so thankful, I was a little annoyed, but so thankful that two paramedics that, previously worked for the company that worked over the state lines were on their way to work and helped me package two patients to fly out. I landed two healers by myself. I did my first like conscious IO. ⁓ That was fun to document because they were because I had to like restrain them because they had they both had head injuries. One of them was pretty positive. He had a shattered pelvis. The other one I knew his finger was messed up because it was swelling like you could see it. Chris Stockton: ⁓ damn. Sammi: Like was a book. It was so obvious and I didn't have any other names. I had to get trauma names from them. And I was so mad. I was so, so mad because I needed help. That was out of all the times. I really, I'm not saying I'm super smart and like I don't need help and all the things, but as an advanced, I really felt like I was taught to be so solid because I had good partners to teach me how to be such a solid advanced. Chris Stockton: obvious. Sammi: So there was never really anything that I needed a supervisor or a paramedic for unless I was like, hey, you should probably give them MEO. They're in like wide, like wide, wide rhythm right now. I don't know what it's called. Like at the time I was like, I don't know, but that rhythm does not look right. But it was really just VTAC or the pulse. I was like, grab your MEO please. Or like, you know, hey, this patient, she's in a third degree heart block. ⁓ You should, you should probably pace her. and pray about her. Like she looked, she looked a little rough. But the fact that I didn't get any type of help, I didn't get like the sprint unit for our supervisor, I didn't get like another medic, I didn't get shit. And I had to look at these two Helo teams and be like, I'm so sorry, I really didn't get anything for you. Here's your pages. Have a great day, bye. Chris Stockton: you I mean, it works like that sometimes. Sammi: It does, but it had just happened so many times to where I got the shit end of the stick because of all of that, because like I wasn't his favorite and that's cool. Man, what you see is what you get really matter to really doesn't change much. And I'm not a people pleaser either. And so I sent an email. I got the class. I was pissed and my teacher was like talking to me because she was real cool. And I was writing to her about it and she's like, She's like, do you still want to be a paramedic? And I was like, I absolutely want to be a paramedic. was like, but fuck this company. I was like, I'm about to tell them I'm going part time. I was like, as of today, if they don't accept it, fuck them. And then I applied to go work in the OR. And I worked in the OR. and because that was the first time I was like, I literally came home, me and my husband, like we were dating at the time. I came back to him and I was like, I just quit. Chris Stockton: Hell yeah. Sammi: And he said, what? said, I quit. I quit the company. Like I went, I think I went part time. No one's, no one's emailed me back. So I think, think I'm done. So, and he was just like, I don't think you're done. And I was just like, no, I'm done. I was like, I'm going to go be a tech in this OR. I'm going to learn things. I was like, I'm never stepping foot back on a truck again. I was like, whatever, screw this parametric license. I'll figure out how to get in nursing school. Like I was just, I was so mad. I think. Chris Stockton: That works. Sammi: All of the things that night shift and just parent at school, was done. I was so done. That one call just, it just showed me that like I was not important, that my patients were important and that like something just so, like it wasn't even the kid. The kid's so cute, love the kid. But just to have like someone say that, ⁓ I need to go do patient care and I'm not gonna go run this call for people that are actively dying because you actually didn't want to run it because there was nothing wrong with your kid nor did you need child care. Because what's crazy is that that medic, I called her later on that day and I was just like, so why are you on the call? Like I was mad, I was heated at her and I was like, so you don't want to run it? Like what's going on? And she's like, what call? I said the call that happened this morning at like 6 a.m. I was like that call. And she said, Sammy, I never got woken up for that call. And I said, if I see your partner, I'm going to hit her. I'm gonna hit her. I don't know what I'm gonna hit her with, but I'm gonna hit her. I'm so mad. Cause she calls so much commotion, it like, ugh. And I don't hate her or anything, I just, it just made me so frustrated that you didn't care enough, but you still want to be in healthcare, but you didn't care enough. And, but I will never be like, oh, your kids are not important, no, go get your kid if you need anything. But it was just the matter of you lying because you didn't want to run a call. That's what I had beef. ⁓ Chris Stockton: And that's one thing that gets to us is we need to support our own and, you know, make sure that if someone needs help in our field, help them. There's nothing wrong with a late call. It sucks. Don't get me wrong, but you got to do it. Sammi: Mm-hmm. it like, it was honestly great being an EMT, because even if you gotta like call, all you gotta do is wash and restock the truck and you're gone. You're like, poof. As a medic, you're sitting there like, I hate it here. I gotta do this stupid fucking chart and make sure I document everything. I was like, is vitals uploaded. It's just like you have a little bit more like responsibilities so like as a basic you really got it made I tell me all the time like are you sure you want like extra responsibilities? Are you sure? I was like stay where you're Chris Stockton: You sure you want to put on a towel? Sammi: you Chris Stockton: ⁓ that's one of my old partners. He was one of the older medic guys, but he started coming to the newer medic mindset. I got bored with the MS. I didn't get bored with the MS. I got pissed off at the company and I got an offer to go be a police officer for a little bit. So this medic was like, hey, I'll help you train. Wait, what? So we'd go park in parking lots and randomly jump fences and. Sammi: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Chris Stockton: I mean this dude is like 60 years old jumping fences with a 30 year old. I'm like, hey, this is cool. Sammi: What guy appeared? Popol? Love that for him. Chris Stockton: It was fun as hell. My wife made fun of me. She's like you made that old man jump, but you guys like no it was his idea Sammi: You had to make sure you blinged it on him. That way if anything was to come back, it was on him. Chris Stockton: Yeah, exactly. The medics in charge, not me. Sammi: Exactly, he told me to and yes, I would jump over bridge if he told me Chris Stockton: And then when I got... ⁓ yeah. Yeah, me too. The funny thing is he was so excited when I got my medic. He was actually being a dick at the same time. He's like, you're running the calls now. Wait, what? Sammi: Who? Who? Not me. Chris Stockton: I don't know what you're talking about there, sir. You're good. I was going say there's something else you wrote on your form to where I put if someone's listening at 2 a.m. it's not, but you put it's always night shift. So why did you put that one? Why is it, you know, what? Sammi: I know... Huh. Go ahead. ⁓ yeah, it's always nice. because sometimes, sometimes the day shifters, forget what it's like at night. You are cracked out for, if you tell me, if anybody tells me that's listening, they tell me they're not for energy drinks deep, they're lying. If not, they're popping an Adderall. Somebody's lying. And it's not me, because I got kidney stones from that, okay? Drink your water. But, But yeah, it's always night shift. I grew up on night shift. I grew up on 24s and night shift. Like, day shifters, I'm like, y'all are such weak hoes. Excuse my language, but y'all ain't doing nothing out here. The night shift is where it's at. You can't see anything. You're half blind. Everybody's blind, actually, on night shift. Everybody's probably got an astigmatism, so we can't see. And everybody just wants to... do crazy stuff at night. That's where all the fun stuff happens. That's where all the little trash paint has come from. So it's always night shift. You can't tell me anything other. That's where all the good ideas come from is night shift. Huh? Chris Stockton: all throughout the day you're doing your normal shit your normal bullshit and then when you finally lay down you're like oh shit that's when it gets fucked up 2am, don't play you bastards to my tongue you've been for four days but uh sorry it's really bad right now at 2am Sammi: Yeah. ⁓ huh. I forgot I got to fall. ⁓ I forgot I got to fall down. No, I'm so serious. Like I love, you know, my favorite patients are my frequent flyer patients and people are like, why? They're like, I'm like, no, no, you still do your full assessment. Don't ever let your frequent flyers ever cast you astray. No, no, no. Do your full assessment. I'm big on 12 leads. I love my set of idols is sometimes I do want to 12 lead. If they look a little weird, I'm like, ⁓ 12 lead it. It'll be fine. It's just go wake your stickies. I want a sugar and I want, and I want to like the rest of your set of your little vitals. If I had good EMTs right now, like I used to back home, they'd be doing manual sets of vitals. There ain't none of this, put them on the monitor. No, but I can't trust them yet. We got to work on it. We're working. But I love them. They are my favorite. They already know what to expect from them. I'm already like, hey, I know you don't want that four lead, but. It would just make me so happy if you would do that for me. And they're like, okay. And I'm like, perfect. And they're like, so and so was nice to you. And I'm like, yeah, so and so was always nice to me. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. They're like, they didn't try to fight you or anything or ask for payments. I'm like, no, they didn't ask for nothing. They just wanted a ride. Like I think back home where I'm from, my favorite one hated everybody. Everybody but me. He would. throw his colostomy bag at people, rip that thing off, throw his shit, throw it everywhere. Me, I'd be like, hey, so you wanna go to this hospital, you wanna go this hospital? This one's not as on diversion as this one right now, but I do know that one's closer. So you just let me know, let me put this little tart down for you, because he had a bad, like, the cupid's oyster, like, terrible. And I'm like, and I like, and do you want another, like, one little blanket? I think I have one saved for you. I would always keep a blanket for this one patient, no one else but them. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, perfect, what hospital? And he's so nice. I'm like, are you okay if I do this blood pressure? Like, I'm being so sweet. And my partner's like, I know she's so fake right now. And I'm like, nah, I just don't want, I don't wanna clean up poop, really. I don't want him mad at me ever. I wanna be the favorite one until this man, you know, decides he wants to DC out. Chris Stockton: Yeah, very true. Sammi: And it was, and I'm telling you, was a favorite. Freakaballers love me because I'm like, I'm not mad at them. I don't care. I just wanna know, what are we calling for today? So can jot that down, make sure it's something serious so we can keep you there. I already know, I already know what we're doing. You want a sandwich? What kind? I'm prepared to advocate for you. I'm probably why we're gonna deteriorate in EMS. Chris Stockton: It's funny you said that I actually had a Dialysis patient I used to take back when I was advanced I would take him every Wednesday. It was Monday, Wednesday Friday and Every time that poor man wanted food He wanted food. So Every time I was a favorite guy because I would stop getting McDonald's in the morning. Like here's a sausage biscuit I know I'm not supposed to do this, but here's a sausage biscuit Sammi: Yeah. Thank you, Leigh-Yell. Hmm? Hmm? Yeah! Chris Stockton: And lo and behold, I found out his nursing home was starving him purposely because he was a dickhead. I'm like, ⁓ that's fucked up. Sammi: What? Bro, when I tell you, I would literally like call, what is it? Is it, it's not CPS, but it's, what's the adult version? Yeah, was like, what's the adult version? Hold on. Yeah, no, I would call so heavily. Uh-uh. I've had to do that before. Chris Stockton: DHS, Department of Human Services. Yeah, that nursing home got invested in me. Sammi: Good. Nah, we ain't about to play that game. I'm all for like if I have like some cookies snacks. ⁓ go ahead. Chris Stockton: Yeah, I found out he actually won. Yep. No, you're good. I found he actually wound up dying from starvation in the end, which pissed me off. I left the company and found that out from an old partner. I'm like, that's bullshit. Sammi: That sucks. And you know, like his family, he probably didn't have none. I hate stuff like that. Like I said, I started as a CNA and I could never, like never imagine doing any of my patients like that. Like we had the golden girls table. Like I had so many like nice ones and even if they're mean, sometimes I can't help it. Like, you know, I'm never gonna get mad at you for that. Cause you genuinely can't help something like that. Like you're in their home. This isn't your job. This is their home. And I don't understand why people don't understand that, like not even a little bit. Chris Stockton: Yeah, that I agree. then the whole, you know, I know how everyone hates IFTs. I know how everyone hates dialysis calls. The funny thing about those is those turn you into the better provider because you're able to notice the slight differences. You're able to see, hold on a minute, that blood pressure was normal. Now it's going a little low. What's going on here? You know, or, or, ⁓ they're hypertensive. What's going on? Sammi: Yes. Chris Stockton: You know, and I actually liked it because I got to talk to the patients. got to. Bullshit. Sammi: Yeah, you learned how to build a core. Yeah. Chris Stockton: And that to me, that's that's that was honestly the best part of that job. You know, doing those is to know the patient to talk to the families and. Like like you were saying earlier, Thanksgiving's is I worked for a county service and they we had a frequent flyer that everything's giving. She would invite us to Thanksgiving by calling 911. I'm like, OK, thanks. Sammi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's like, don't do that, but like, love that. ⁓ Chris Stockton: Yeah, it was fun. And I hate that they took away our 24s, but that's one of the reasons I left. But anyway. Sammi: Yeah, I mean, I get that when like we've been in service for like hours and stuff, but and also agree with the IFTs. I really wish that so many people shit on it so bad. my husband, he he likes hospital to hospital IFTs. He gets so depressed having to take somebody back home or back to a facility because it just hurts his feelings. Like he's like already come and get them. It's already know what it's like and to bring them back. just I can't. And I'm the same way if I see that their conditions are like terrible. Guess what? Guess where we going? We're going right back and we're about to figure it out. Cause you got me messed up if you're about to live in here with like roaches. Absolutely not. We are not doing that. We're not playing that game. ⁓ But I really just wish people would stop glorifying the now one side because you're now one side. mean, yeah, it's great, but on the off chance that you're actually getting all of these good calls or less than none, you're not getting any actual patient care or patient advocacy from any of those calls because you stop the bleeding, you give them a little fluid to keep it going round and round, you put air in them and you mosey on. Those are easy, but like the IFTs and like those, like those long distance like transport, those are when like your empathy comes into play and learning how to like actually talk to your patients, figuring out, like you said, the blood pressure, know, man, I just did this blood pressure twice on both arms. Let me do a manual. Let me see where some of my skills are coming in play these fine tune things. You know, they look a little pale. Is it because like they're cold? Is it because they're like internally bleeding? Like what's happening? You know, like you're able to critically thank more for those type of calls. I feel like so it gears you to that 911. Chris Stockton: I agree and I'm one of those assholes I guess you could say too that I think you should go into every every level before you become a paramedic. ⁓ Sammi: Mm-hmm. I also agree. am not a zero to hero advocate. You will miss me with that one. And I get so much faith in it. Chris Stockton: Yeah, I've had a... Exactly, exactly. I get grieved for it because they're like, ⁓ well, I'm a good EMT. Yeah, but do you know how to start a line? Do you really know what you're looking for? Sammi: Are you a good EMT because like you know how to drive the ambulance and you can put on the like on the monitor and things or are you a good EMT because you're helping your partner say hey ⁓ I I don't know about this medication and you're like, what do you mean? And they're like ⁓ Like let's look at some things like helping see the bigger picture Chris Stockton: Yep, 100%. that it's very true. Let me figure out what I'm just doing real quick for this stupid computer. Sorry. So I did want to appreciate you coming on and being real about all this. Before we close out, I always ask one thing that I ask everybody. If someone's listening right now, alone, burnout, questioning everything, what do you want them to hear? Yep, very well said. And I know you're on social media and all that. If someone wanted to contact you or learn more about anything that you provide or just want to reach out, would you be willing to provide that for anybody or go ahead? Mine's not good. I gotcha. I'm gonna go ahead and hit end here a second.