Latest / Scalability School / The 0 to 8 Figure Playbook

Transcript

The 0 to 8 Figure Playbook · Scalability School

• 1:00:00
  If you're quite literally starting at
• 1:00:01
  zero, I think you just
• 1:00:02
  focus on making a diverse range
• 1:00:05
  of creative that is messaging to these
• 1:00:06
  different types of
• 1:00:07
  people we talked about,
• 1:00:08
  load it into one campaign and allow meta
• 1:00:10
  to dictate where the
• 1:00:11
  spend is going to go.
• 1:00:12
  Because when you're quite literally at
• 1:00:14
  zero, and I know that's not
• 1:00:15
  where most people listening to
• 1:00:16
  this are, when you're quite literally at
• 1:00:17
  zero, you need signal.
• 1:00:19
  To Brad's point, spend is a good
• 1:00:21
  indicator, but another
• 1:00:22
  indicator when you're early on
• 1:00:23
  is just looking at Facebook ad comments
• 1:00:25
  and Instagram ad
• 1:00:26
  comments. Seeing what people are
• 1:00:27
  actually saying to the different
• 1:00:29
  headlines, different
• 1:00:30
  personas that you might be targeting
• 1:00:31
  in this creative, because you might
• 1:00:33
  identify something really
• 1:00:34
  interesting in the comments,
• 1:00:35
  which then allows you to make a change to
• 1:00:37
  your website. For us, we
• 1:00:38
  started with these socks,
• 1:00:39
  we had one style of them, and I'm like,
• 1:00:41
  "I don't know who's actually
• 1:00:42
  going to end up buying this,
• 1:00:43
  but we're going to try to sell it to a
• 1:00:44
  little bit of everybody."
• 1:00:45
  What actually happened first was
• 1:00:47
  that we were starting at Facebook ad
• 1:00:48
  comments of people in the
• 1:00:50
  Midwest saying, "All these would be
• 1:00:51
  great for hunting." I never thought, "Oh,
• 1:00:53
  we'd sell these socks to
• 1:00:53
  hunting," or that category,
• 1:00:56
  never really stood out to me. That's when
• 1:00:58
  we started making ads
• 1:00:58
  that called out that persona,
• 1:01:01
  and that's where we actually
• 1:01:02
  caught fire in the first year.
• 1:01:03
  One piece that goes into all of these
• 1:01:06
  ideas is offer optimization
• 1:01:07
  strategy. That can go across
• 1:01:10
  so much of it and is very ignored by so
• 1:01:14
  many people. Obviously,
• 1:01:15
  you've done a ton of offer
• 1:01:16
  testing. Zach, I think that's something
• 1:01:18
  that you do incredibly well. What are the
• 1:01:20
  keys that you wish would be out there
• 1:01:22
  that people don't talk
• 1:01:23
  about when it comes to offers?
• 1:01:26
  [music]
• 1:01:31
  And now, let's take a listen to the
• 1:01:33
  Scalability School podcast.
• 1:01:36
  Okay, and welcome to episode eight, the
• 1:01:38
  zero to eight, zero dollar
• 1:01:41
  to eight figure playbook.
• 1:01:43
  Here we are, Brad and I, Zach's coming on
• 1:01:45
  just a second. Brad,
• 1:01:46
  always good to be with you,
• 1:01:47
  my friend. Likewise. Zero to eight
• 1:01:49
  figures for the episode number eight.
• 1:01:52
  That's where they have to know it. There
• 1:01:53
  you go. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:55
  Really, what we're going through
• 1:01:56
  today is essentially, we talked through a
• 1:02:00
  lot of questions we've been
• 1:02:00
  getting from listeners. By
• 1:02:02
  the way, thank you for those of you that
• 1:02:03
  listen and share it with friends.
• 1:02:05
  Obviously, our listeners
• 1:02:05
  are exploding into the tens at this
• 1:02:08
  point, so thank you. We get these
• 1:02:11
  questions essentially,
• 1:02:13
  how do you put all this together, talking
• 1:02:15
  about a lot of different
• 1:02:15
  pieces, talking about a lot of
• 1:02:16
  different tactics, and what are the
• 1:02:18
  things that you can do, and what's a
• 1:02:20
  playbook that we can run,
• 1:02:21
  and what's the playbook that you guys
• 1:02:22
  run, because there's been enough
• 1:02:24
  consistency in terms
• 1:02:25
  of the performance that you had over
• 1:02:27
  time. And so that's really what we're
• 1:02:29
  going through today,
• 1:02:30
  is like, this is what the playbook looks
• 1:02:31
  like. And I'm not sure
• 1:02:32
  this might be two episodes,
• 1:02:34
  the one, a part one and a part two. We're
• 1:02:35
  going to see how we get
• 1:02:36
  through it, but that's where we
• 1:02:38
  are for right now. So let's go ahead and
• 1:02:41
  get started on the
• 1:02:43
  playbook itself. As we talk about
• 1:02:45
  the part one, start wide strategy. Brad,
• 1:02:49
  this is what you went
• 1:02:50
  through. You said a great example
• 1:02:52
  is loop earplugs. So you start wide, and
• 1:02:55
  then eventually you can
• 1:02:56
  scale wide, casting a wide net.
• 1:02:58
  What goes into this spike start wide
• 1:03:00
  strategy in your mind?
• 1:03:02
  Yeah, so I'll back up one step. I think
• 1:03:04
  what's interesting is we
• 1:03:05
  kind of have gone into, I think,
• 1:03:07
  each of these steps over the last several
• 1:03:09
  episodes. I don't know if
• 1:03:10
  we've missed any. I think we've
• 1:03:11
  gone through most of these. And so we
• 1:03:15
  might not go super deep
• 1:03:16
  into each one specifically,
• 1:03:17
  but obviously you can refer back to
• 1:03:18
  previous episodes and go a
• 1:03:19
  little bit deeper. And if you
• 1:03:21
  have any questions, you can always DM us
• 1:03:22
  on Twitter. We love that
• 1:03:23
  too. But starting wide is
• 1:03:24
  really all about... So if you...
• 1:03:27
  Everybody here, for the most part,
• 1:03:29
  everybody that's listening is
• 1:03:30
  kind of in the seven, eight figure range.
• 1:03:31
  So they've got at least some
• 1:03:33
  success, and they're trying to
• 1:03:34
  figure out how to push it forward a bit
• 1:03:35
  more. So at this point,
• 1:03:37
  you've probably got your product,
• 1:03:39
  at least somewhat dialed in, and you have
• 1:03:40
  a sense of what people
• 1:03:41
  like, and you're trying to scale
• 1:03:43
  it out a little bit further. So starting
• 1:03:45
  wide is really all about
• 1:03:46
  casting a wide net, particularly
• 1:03:48
  with your ad creative and your messaging
• 1:03:50
  around what might resonate
• 1:03:51
  with people. And the example
• 1:03:53
  that you mentioned, Loop Earpugs, I think
• 1:03:55
  is an interesting example
• 1:03:56
  of our two reasons. One,
• 1:03:57
  they continue to go wide, but it gives
• 1:04:00
  kind of a great example of
• 1:04:01
  how you can actually get to
• 1:04:03
  that width as well. And so if you go and
• 1:04:05
  you scroll through their
• 1:04:06
  ad library, what you'll see
• 1:04:07
  is they sell earpugs, and it's not like
• 1:04:09
  earbuds where you can put
• 1:04:10
  in, listen to music. It's
• 1:04:11
  literally like noise canceling earpuds.
• 1:04:13
  There's nothing being played
• 1:04:14
  as far as I understand that.
• 1:04:15
  And I don't know where they started,
• 1:04:16
  meaning I don't know which of these
• 1:04:19
  wide buckets they started in, but you'll
• 1:04:21
  see that they message for
• 1:04:23
  parents, right? Or for sleep,
• 1:04:25
  or at festivals because you want to drown
• 1:04:27
  some of that, or people who
• 1:04:28
  are just sensitive to noise,
• 1:04:29
  generally speaking. And that's what we
• 1:04:31
  mean when we say start wide
• 1:04:32
  is you want to build a bunch of
• 1:04:34
  those pillars and angles that we've
• 1:04:36
  talked about in previous episodes where
• 1:04:37
  you can message to a
• 1:04:39
  lot of different people and you can build
• 1:04:40
  out all of those and launch with a
• 1:04:43
  handful of ads. And we
• 1:04:44
  can talk about maybe quantities of ads
• 1:04:45
  and things like that.
• 1:04:47
  Because when you get those up and
• 1:04:48
  running and you have all of those
• 1:04:50
  different people that you're speaking to
• 1:04:51
  and all those different
• 1:04:51
  use cases, you can start to get a sense
• 1:04:53
  of where do I go from here?
• 1:04:56
  Because if you just pick one,
• 1:04:57
  it doesn't work. You're kind of out of
• 1:04:59
  luck and you got to pivot
• 1:04:59
  and go to the next one. So at
• 1:05:01
  least starting wide gives you a chance to
• 1:05:02
  see when I launch these
• 1:05:03
  ads, this is what's resonating
• 1:05:04
  with people off the bat. And then you can
• 1:05:06
  kind of dig into that a
• 1:05:07
  little bit further, which is
• 1:05:07
  step two. But I'll pause there. Talking
• 1:05:10
  about that, I think one of the things
• 1:05:12
  that is in the old time
• 1:05:14
  that a lot of meta advertisers
• 1:05:16
  specifically have came up through was
• 1:05:19
  that you basically run your
• 1:05:21
  ads to you build a general ad or a bunch
• 1:05:24
  of ads that are talking about your
• 1:05:25
  product. And then you
• 1:05:27
  put those via different targeting to the
• 1:05:30
  audiences you're trying to
• 1:05:31
  speak to. And this is obviously
• 1:05:33
  in the new model where all of us live,
• 1:05:35
  which is you're building
• 1:05:37
  the creative to speak to those
• 1:05:38
  particular people right away, which I
• 1:05:40
  think is just worth calling
• 1:05:42
  out because that's a different
• 1:05:43
  way. And a lot of people think about
• 1:05:44
  this. One thing I'm
• 1:05:45
  wondering in your sense is,
• 1:05:47
  because when I've talked about this
• 1:05:49
  before, the number one thing
• 1:05:50
  I hear is, "Well, how do I,
• 1:05:52
  if I don't have a ton of budget, as I'm
• 1:05:54
  building it from $0 to a
• 1:05:57
  lower budget to $5,000 a month
• 1:05:59
  to $10,000 a month, how do I start to do
• 1:06:02
  this testing in terms of
• 1:06:04
  going wide better?" Because
• 1:06:05
  I think what ends up happening is a lot
• 1:06:07
  of people have done two of these. And
• 1:06:11
  persona expansion is
• 1:06:12
  not necessarily something that's gone.
• 1:06:15
  They haven't tried it a ton and they've
• 1:06:16
  maybe listened to the
• 1:06:17
  earlier episode and talked about it, but
• 1:06:18
  they've started with like two
• 1:06:19
  of them. So how do you start
• 1:06:20
  to test this from a budgetary standpoint
• 1:06:23
  in your... Yeah, I think if
• 1:06:26
  you're... Greg, I'm glad you
• 1:06:27
  talked about the tactical setup because I
• 1:06:29
  think it's a really
• 1:06:29
  important point. If you're quite
• 1:06:31
  literally starting at zero, I think you
• 1:06:33
  just focus on making a
• 1:06:34
  diverse range of creative that is
• 1:06:37
  messaging to these different types of
• 1:06:38
  people who talked about, load
• 1:06:39
  it into one campaign and allow
• 1:06:41
  meta to dictate where the spend is going
• 1:06:43
  to go. Because when
• 1:06:44
  you're quite literally at zero,
• 1:06:46
  and I know that's not where most people
• 1:06:47
  listening to this are, when
• 1:06:49
  you're quite literally at zero,
• 1:06:50
  you need signal. And even if it's not
• 1:06:53
  going to be the long-term thing, it's
• 1:06:54
  like you can't get to
• 1:06:55
  the long-term thing if you have no cash
• 1:06:57
  in your pocket to get to the
• 1:06:58
  long-term thing. So sometimes
• 1:06:59
  you just have to start with what you see
• 1:07:01
  is getting some spend. And I think
• 1:07:02
  getting some spend is
• 1:07:03
  important because if you launch it... So
• 1:07:06
  make all of this creative,
• 1:07:07
  load up a CBO, lowest cost,
• 1:07:09
  cost caps, whatever, load it in there and
• 1:07:11
  see what meta spends
• 1:07:12
  towards. Even if it's not performing
• 1:07:14
  super profitably off the bat, spend is
• 1:07:16
  probably the thing to lean into. And I
• 1:07:19
  know we've mentioned
• 1:07:19
  this idea of spend velocity recently
• 1:07:21
  quite a bit, but that should
• 1:07:23
  give you a sense of where you
• 1:07:25
  should be then focusing your attention
• 1:07:26
  from there. Because meta is
• 1:07:28
  telling you people are at least
• 1:07:29
  responding to this in some kind of way.
• 1:07:30
  They're clicking through,
• 1:07:31
  maybe they're not converting
• 1:07:32
  quite yet. But from a very simple zero to
• 1:07:35
  one perspective, load into
• 1:07:37
  one CBO and just start it
• 1:07:39
  all there. I don't think it makes sense
• 1:07:40
  to be splitting up your
• 1:07:41
  budgets across five different
• 1:07:43
  campaigns, across five different
• 1:07:45
  personas. And I also think you should
• 1:07:47
  just use broad targeting.
• 1:07:48
  I don't think you need to
• 1:07:49
  have coach your targeting.
• 1:07:50
  You don't have to do it too much. Yeah. I
• 1:07:52
  mean, Brett, so Zach, when I go to
• 1:07:55
  Foxhole founders meetups, I meet people
• 1:07:57
  and I know this isn't to
• 1:07:59
  inflate your ego. This is a
• 1:08:00
  real thing. People will say, "Dude, I'm
• 1:08:02
  trying to do what Zach Stuck's
• 1:08:03
  doing. I'm building a holding
• 1:08:04
  company. I've got D2C brands. I have an
• 1:08:06
  agency." And a question
• 1:08:09
  that commonly comes across is,
• 1:08:12
  how are the things that he touches so
• 1:08:14
  successful so quickly? So how do you
• 1:08:16
  think about this in terms
• 1:08:18
  of the step one in terms of the zero to
• 1:08:20
  eight for your playbook?
• 1:08:21
  Talking about step one starting
• 1:08:23
  wide. And you can get into other stuff
• 1:08:25
  too, but what are the pieces that you
• 1:08:27
  think about with this?
• 1:08:28
  Because I think a lot of people are
• 1:08:30
  really curious about
• 1:08:30
  this, including this.
• 1:08:31
  Yeah. I mean, the first hack to all this
• 1:08:33
  is that I invented my own
• 1:08:35
  time zone, which is ZST. So I
• 1:08:37
  can show up 10 minutes late to our
• 1:08:39
  podcast recordings and my podcast
• 1:08:41
  partners don't absolutely-
• 1:08:42
  That's a huge unlock.
• 1:08:44
  That's a big unlock. Yeah. I mean, so
• 1:08:45
  we'll start there. Riley at Homestead
• 1:08:47
  knows all about ZST.
• 1:08:49
  The team at Easy Street knows all about
• 1:08:50
  ZST as well. So no, I
• 1:08:51
  think in all seriousness,
• 1:08:53
  the reality is we take a lot of shots
• 1:08:57
  like this starting wide to
• 1:08:59
  try and figure out just get a
• 1:09:02
  taste of what consumers might be
• 1:09:04
  interested in. So if it's from anything
• 1:09:07
  from a health and wellness
• 1:09:07
  brand, all the way to an apparel brand,
• 1:09:09
  to a Home Goods brand that we owned. I
• 1:09:13
  mean, we started with
• 1:09:14
  making a ton of static ads in Facebook.
• 1:09:17
  That's the easiest place
• 1:09:18
  to start driving traffic to
• 1:09:19
  the website, usually to start. And just
• 1:09:22
  seeing what people react to.
• 1:09:24
  And I think to Brad's point,
• 1:09:26
  spend is a good indicator, but another
• 1:09:27
  indicator when you're early
• 1:09:28
  on is just looking at Facebook
• 1:09:30
  ad comments and Instagram ad comments.
• 1:09:32
  Seeing what people are
• 1:09:33
  actually saying to the different
• 1:09:35
  headlines, different personas that you
• 1:09:37
  might be targeting in this
• 1:09:38
  creative. Because you might
• 1:09:39
  identify something really interesting in
• 1:09:41
  the comments, which then
• 1:09:42
  allows you to make a change
• 1:09:43
  to your website. For us, I've talked
• 1:09:46
  about this on many podcasts in the past
• 1:09:47
  for Hala. We started
• 1:09:49
  with these socks. We had one style of
• 1:09:51
  them. And I'm like, "I don't
• 1:09:52
  know who's actually going to
• 1:09:53
  end up buying this, but we're going to
• 1:09:54
  try to sell it to a little bit of
• 1:09:56
  everybody." And what
• 1:09:57
  actually happened first was that we were
• 1:09:59
  starting to get Facebook
• 1:09:59
  ad comments of people in the
• 1:10:01
  Midwest saying, "All these would be great
• 1:10:03
  for hunting." And I
• 1:10:04
  never thought we'd sell these
• 1:10:05
  socks to hunting or that category never
• 1:10:08
  really stood out to me.
• 1:10:09
  And that's when we started
• 1:10:10
  making ads that called out that persona.
• 1:10:13
  And that's where we actually
• 1:10:14
  caught fire in the first year.
• 1:10:16
  So I think to Brad's point, you just have
• 1:10:19
  to study all of the human
• 1:10:22
  interaction of the initial ads.
• 1:10:24
  And for us, that's why I think a lot of
• 1:10:25
  people don't choose to do
• 1:10:26
  that. They just look in the
• 1:10:27
  ad account. They're like, "These ads
• 1:10:28
  aren't working." You have
• 1:10:29
  to dig into those things that
• 1:10:31
  are the fundamentals, which is just like,
• 1:10:33
  "What are people saying
• 1:10:34
  about the ads? What are people
• 1:10:36
  saying in the first customer reviews?
• 1:10:38
  What are the things that they
• 1:10:39
  might be saying even in post
• 1:10:40
  purchase of why they're buying that might
• 1:10:43
  allow you to then find a big unlock to
• 1:10:45
  just double down on?"
• 1:10:46
  So I'd say if there's anything that we do
• 1:10:48
  in the portfolio brands,
• 1:10:49
  even with some of our clients
• 1:10:50
  that we've had some real success with, is
• 1:10:52
  just digging into that
• 1:10:54
  initial data as much as we can
• 1:10:56
  to try and figure out where there might
• 1:10:58
  be a place to double
• 1:10:59
  down. So that to me is usually
• 1:11:02
  the starting point. I mean, it's
• 1:11:03
  interesting in terms of the starting
• 1:11:05
  wide. The next question
• 1:11:06
  I want to get into is, I would say common
• 1:11:10
  mistakes that are made in this one.
• 1:11:12
  Within the first step,
• 1:11:13
  common mistake always is trying to do too
• 1:11:15
  much right off the gates. I
• 1:11:17
  mean, I've seen that a hundred
• 1:11:18
  times, or as I'm sure you guys have, or
• 1:11:20
  like I literally audited an
• 1:11:21
  account the other day. It's
• 1:11:22
  like, "Oh, we haven't had any winnings."
• 1:11:25
  And it'd been running for
• 1:11:26
  two weeks at a hundred dollar a
• 1:11:27
  day budget and there was 15 creatives.
• 1:11:29
  And I was like, "How are you
• 1:11:31
  supposed to have any idea?"
• 1:11:33
  The financial side of it is like, it's
• 1:11:36
  always my opinion. I don't
• 1:11:37
  know how you guys feel better to
• 1:11:39
  spend more in a shorter period of time
• 1:11:41
  even if you can, rather
• 1:11:43
  than try to spread it out. What
• 1:11:45
  are other... I mean, I don't know what
• 1:11:46
  you think about that or what
• 1:11:47
  are other common mistakes you
• 1:11:48
  guys see? I'm sure Brad probably does
• 1:11:50
  this too. I know Brad's more of a cost
• 1:11:52
  control type of person,
• 1:11:53
  so try to use if there's interaction
• 1:11:55
  happening, then Meta will spend more.
• 1:11:57
  Usually for us, when
• 1:11:57
  we start, we're running lowest costs and
• 1:11:59
  we're trying to gas as much
• 1:11:59
  budget as we can right away
• 1:12:01
  to learn quicker. Because if Meta's
• 1:12:04
  seeing some signal in a 24 hour period,
• 1:12:06
  it will start to move
• 1:12:07
  spend pretty quickly over to a specific
• 1:12:09
  ad. I think this is a
• 1:12:11
  point we've maybe made it in
• 1:12:12
  previous episodes about it's super
• 1:12:14
  overwhelming. Everyone talks about the
• 1:12:16
  million things you need
• 1:12:16
  to do. You need to do all this crazy
• 1:12:18
  stuff on retention. You need to do
• 1:12:19
  landing pages. You need
• 1:12:20
  to do everything. I mean, I truly think
• 1:12:22
  until you're at $3,000,
• 1:12:25
  $4,000, $500,000 a month in revenue,
• 1:12:27
  just pushing traffic to your website is
• 1:12:29
  totally fine. I think that
• 1:12:30
  you can get a lot more unlocks
• 1:12:32
  in trying to figure out on the ad front
• 1:12:34
  of who is actually buying
• 1:12:36
  your stuff and what they're
• 1:12:37
  resonating with. I mean, this is where
• 1:12:39
  the creative diversification
• 1:12:41
  stuff starts to come to play. I
• 1:12:42
  know Brad, you had some thoughts on that.
• 1:12:45
  But to me, we've launched
• 1:12:49
  three brands and we've bought
• 1:12:50
  three brands at Easy Street over the last
• 1:12:52
  three years. Of the ones
• 1:12:54
  that we've launched, it's
• 1:12:55
  starting wide open. We don't know what
• 1:12:57
  headline is going to resonate. We don't
• 1:12:59
  know what pain point
• 1:13:00
  is going to resonate. Even if we have a
• 1:13:02
  super niche single-skew
• 1:13:03
  product, we're not sure what
• 1:13:04
  is actually going to click. I think that
• 1:13:06
  that only can happen
• 1:13:07
  really easily in ad creative.
• 1:13:09
  Not worrying about, "Oh, I need to do
• 1:13:11
  landing pages right away.
• 1:13:12
  Oh, I need to do all this crazy
• 1:13:14
  email and SMS flow stuff right away." I
• 1:13:16
  think really it comes
• 1:13:17
  down to just the fundamentals
• 1:13:18
  of trying to figure out why people might
• 1:13:20
  buy your product and what
• 1:13:21
  starts to click and what actually
• 1:13:23
  starts to build momentum. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:13:25
  I just wanted to add two
• 1:13:26
  tactical things because Zach's
• 1:13:28
  mentioning some really tactical things. I
• 1:13:29
  wanted to add two tactical
• 1:13:30
  things that you can do. One is
• 1:13:32
  along with the comments, reviews, and
• 1:13:33
  feedback, you can add post-purchase
• 1:13:34
  surveys and just ask,
• 1:13:35
  "How do you intend to use this product?"
• 1:13:37
  Or you can say and leave it open-ended.
• 1:13:39
  Or we have a couple of clients where
• 1:13:41
  maybe they sell a protein bar. It's like,
• 1:13:44
  "How do you plan to use this? Is it a
• 1:13:45
  meal replacement? Is it a
• 1:13:47
  snack? Is it a pre-workout,
• 1:13:49
  a post-workout?" And then you can start
• 1:13:50
  to see how they're
• 1:13:51
  actually going to plan to use it.
• 1:13:52
  And then you can make creative that
• 1:13:53
  speaks with the
• 1:13:53
  terminology that they're using.
• 1:13:55
  "Oh, you plan to use it as a snack. Are
• 1:13:57
  you a mom and you need...
• 1:13:59
  You're too busy to make a meal?"
• 1:14:02
  And then you can dig into that a little
• 1:14:03
  bit deeper. The other
• 1:14:04
  tactical thing that I'll
• 1:14:04
  mention is I'll give this away for...
• 1:14:07
  Anyway, that DMS me on
• 1:14:08
  Twitter, if you're curious.
• 1:14:09
  I have a deep research prompt that we use
• 1:14:10
  for all clients that onboard with us.
• 1:14:12
  And basically, you plug in your... I
• 1:14:14
  have... It's a really long
• 1:14:15
  prompt. You plug in a URL
• 1:14:16
  and it will do a bunch of... It'll run
• 1:14:18
  for 20 minutes and it'll
• 1:14:18
  give you a bunch of different
• 1:14:19
  research on this pillar and angle thing.
• 1:14:21
  And it can give you a
• 1:14:22
  starting point for what else...
• 1:14:23
  The other reasons people might buy your
• 1:14:25
  product. Now, it helps if
• 1:14:26
  you have some reviews because
• 1:14:27
  it'll work that into. But if you're
• 1:14:29
  struggling to figure out
• 1:14:30
  what does wide mean and what are
• 1:14:32
  examples of how I get there, that can be
• 1:14:34
  really helpful. So I will
• 1:14:35
  share that if you do get me.
• 1:14:36
  And ask for it. Awesome. Just
• 1:14:37
  value add and get... I mean,
• 1:14:39
  probably get 10s of DMS as well. I mean,
• 1:14:42
  who knows? Well, maybe five.
• 1:14:45
  10s. Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:14:48
  You just have to comment,
• 1:14:50
  look, or scale like that. Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  Yeah, exactly. Maybe on YouTube. Maybe
• 1:14:54
  people need to comment on
• 1:14:55
  YouTube in order to get this.
• 1:14:56
  Yeah, exactly. The one thing... Sorry.
• 1:14:58
  The one thing that Brad
• 1:14:59
  said that I think is super
• 1:15:00
  interesting that people, I feel like when
• 1:15:03
  they're getting started building brands,
• 1:15:05
  don't do enough is use the terminology
• 1:15:07
  that their customers use. So,
• 1:15:09
  I mean, you could be selling
• 1:15:10
  whatever. You could be selling rugs. You
• 1:15:12
  could be selling the
• 1:15:13
  supplement. You could be selling,
• 1:15:14
  honestly, anything. There's definitely
• 1:15:16
  terminology that your customers, your
• 1:15:18
  true customers will use
• 1:15:19
  to define your products, why they use
• 1:15:21
  your products, why they like your
• 1:15:22
  product. That's just
• 1:15:23
  wording that you've never used before in
• 1:15:25
  marketing or in any of
• 1:15:26
  your ads or on your website or
• 1:15:28
  anything like that. Really study that.
• 1:15:31
  They go through all of
• 1:15:32
  your reviews, go through your
• 1:15:34
  Facebook comments, dig in because there
• 1:15:36
  might be terminology that
• 1:15:37
  you're just missing or you're
• 1:15:39
  being too generic about that someone
• 1:15:41
  might resonate with if
• 1:15:42
  you niche it in a little bit
• 1:15:43
  more to the actual customers. Yeah, to
• 1:15:45
  Brad's point, I think
• 1:15:45
  that that's one big thing.
• 1:15:47
  You should definitely spend more time on.
• 1:15:48
  I think we've gone into the
• 1:15:49
  second piece of this as well,
• 1:15:51
  the playbook, which is diversifying
• 1:15:53
  winners. Talking about creative
• 1:15:54
  diversity, talking about
• 1:15:55
  same message, new creative style,
• 1:15:58
  duplicate top ads with new copy. I mean,
• 1:16:00
  copy is obviously such
• 1:16:01
  a huge one that's underutilized. I feel
• 1:16:05
  like expand a new
• 1:16:06
  personas and demographics.
• 1:16:07
  We've talked about this a little bit.
• 1:16:09
  Brad, to you in terms of this playbook,
• 1:16:11
  what does this mean in terms of
• 1:16:13
  diversification for you?
• 1:16:14
  Yeah. So, once you start to have some
• 1:16:17
  spending and performance
• 1:16:19
  going into a couple of different
• 1:16:21
  angles, usually what it looks like is you
• 1:16:23
  have one ad that's
• 1:16:24
  spending 90% of your budget in the
• 1:16:25
  ad account and you're like, "Okay, great.
• 1:16:27
  I would like to have spend,
• 1:16:29
  look, or be evened out across
• 1:16:31
  a few more assets." What you can do is
• 1:16:34
  then just obsessively
• 1:16:35
  pay attention to that ad,
• 1:16:37
  how it's getting delivery, and then
• 1:16:38
  figuring out what you can
• 1:16:39
  do to make it different.
• 1:16:41
  Let's say you have a video ad. And so, I
• 1:16:43
  have David's protein
• 1:16:44
  here as an example because I
• 1:16:46
  think their library looks really great.
• 1:16:47
  So, we can talk about
• 1:16:49
  protein bars again for a second.
• 1:16:51
  So, let's say that you've got an angle
• 1:16:55
  that's working really
• 1:16:55
  well. That's for busy moms.
• 1:16:57
  It's like, "Okay, great. How can I..."
• 1:16:59
  And the thing that's working
• 1:17:00
  right now is a video that's
• 1:17:01
  from a mom creator that is talking about
• 1:17:03
  how well it works for her.
• 1:17:05
  Great. What you can do is you
• 1:17:06
  can go to that video and you can figure
• 1:17:08
  out how do I iterate this?
• 1:17:09
  How do I turn it into statics?
• 1:17:11
  How do I turn it into more moms? It's
• 1:17:12
  just taking that and expanding it across
• 1:17:14
  a bunch of different
• 1:17:14
  things. Totally. I mean, a good example
• 1:17:16
  of... Let's just take that
• 1:17:17
  exact example, busy moms.
• 1:17:19
  The post-it note ad is a classic, I'm
• 1:17:21
  scrolling through David's
• 1:17:22
  protein thing. We do a ton of it
• 1:17:24
  at Hollow. There's such an easy way for a
• 1:17:27
  mom to resonate with a
• 1:17:29
  handwritten note on the fridge,
• 1:17:31
  or on, I don't know, maybe a bag in the
• 1:17:33
  kitchen, whatever, buy the shoes before
• 1:17:35
  you leave the house.
• 1:17:37
  I think just taking those moments of that
• 1:17:39
  customer demo and trying to say, "What
• 1:17:42
  are things that they
• 1:17:43
  would do themselves naturally that they
• 1:17:45
  might actually pay
• 1:17:46
  attention to in the feed that just
• 1:17:48
  feels more organic versus maybe just
• 1:17:51
  another direct response
• 1:17:52
  video that you're basically
• 1:17:53
  changing just the three second hook on
• 1:17:55
  it." That to me, I feel
• 1:17:56
  like is a great way. For us,
• 1:17:58
  we found ways where if we're actually
• 1:18:00
  going to do these written
• 1:18:02
  format ads, which gets people's
• 1:18:04
  attention and they're going to read the
• 1:18:06
  text then on this post-it
• 1:18:07
  note, is trying to take that and
• 1:18:10
  apply it to the use case. Where would a
• 1:18:13
  runner be potentially looking
• 1:18:16
  at a note that they wrote to
• 1:18:17
  themselves? Is that on a gym bag? Is that
• 1:18:20
  in chalk where it's at a
• 1:18:23
  workout facility or whatever,
• 1:18:25
  where it's talking about, "Do 20 burpees
• 1:18:27
  today and then also replace
• 1:18:30
  your crappy cotton socks with
• 1:18:31
  alpaca socks?" I think the biggest thing
• 1:18:34
  is trying to get into
• 1:18:35
  their headspace and things
• 1:18:37
  that they might pay attention to. If,
• 1:18:39
  like Brad said, you find
• 1:18:41
  something that starts to resonate.
• 1:18:42
  Yeah, it's almost a style and a feeling
• 1:18:46
  of what they're doing. It's not
• 1:18:48
  necessarily as much of a
• 1:18:50
  diversifying winners is a part of it, but
• 1:18:52
  it's more about taking
• 1:18:53
  already what you know and just
• 1:18:55
  taking it deeper and taking it in terms
• 1:18:57
  of style, in terms of ad
• 1:18:58
  type, in terms of potentially ad
• 1:19:01
  type, potentially the way it's displayed
• 1:19:04
  like you talked about. I
• 1:19:05
  think that's a super interesting
• 1:19:06
  one, looking at different headlines,
• 1:19:09
  urgency, curiosity,
• 1:19:11
  emotional versus logical appeals.
• 1:19:13
  I think that's a big part of it. When
• 1:19:14
  you've seen this not go
• 1:19:16
  well before in terms of
• 1:19:18
  trying to diversify this, what has been
• 1:19:20
  the mistake? I'll say
• 1:19:21
  the one that I've seen
• 1:19:23
  right out of the gates and that I talk to
• 1:19:25
  founder members a lot about
• 1:19:26
  is they take an angle to an
• 1:19:28
  extreme and then double and triple down
• 1:19:31
  on it and don't have enough
• 1:19:33
  that they've proven. It is such
• 1:19:35
  a niche thing that they think that
• 1:19:38
  there's more there that they're
• 1:19:39
  necessarily might not be.
• 1:19:41
  An example of this is somebody the other
• 1:19:43
  day was doubling down on
• 1:19:45
  essentially people that they
• 1:19:47
  identify the people's like gum health was
• 1:19:49
  an issue. It was like oral
• 1:19:51
  care product and they were like,
• 1:19:52
  "Oh yeah, it's gum health. People are
• 1:19:53
  really interested in gum
• 1:19:54
  health." Then all they did
• 1:19:56
  was make all this scientific looking ad
• 1:19:59
  all about gum health and
• 1:20:00
  that's where they took this and
• 1:20:02
  there was no other diversification. It
• 1:20:04
  was like, "Yeah, there was that angle
• 1:20:06
  where they didn't go."
• 1:20:07
  Yeah, there was one bullet on this and
• 1:20:09
  then it was all in. I understand what
• 1:20:11
  you're trying to do.
• 1:20:12
  It makes sense, but you also still have
• 1:20:14
  to keep that diversification
• 1:20:16
  in terms of the message and
• 1:20:18
  the type and everything else. I'm not
• 1:20:20
  saying that that's not a winning angle,
• 1:20:21
  but there's more out.
• 1:20:23
  You're going to kill yourself. I don't
• 1:20:24
  know what other mistakes you guys see.
• 1:20:26
  I'll just hit on one real quick. For
• 1:20:28
  Holo, again, just to use
• 1:20:29
  our own brand example is
• 1:20:31
  it's antimicrobial. It's like a natural
• 1:20:33
  fiber. You can talk about
• 1:20:35
  the fact that your socks
• 1:20:36
  won't stink anymore. No one really gives
• 1:20:38
  a shit about that. We've
• 1:20:40
  tried it, maybe it resonated
• 1:20:41
  in one hook and then it's very easy for
• 1:20:43
  you to tell your team or to
• 1:20:45
  go tell your agency and be
• 1:20:46
  like, "Hey, go make more ads about this,"
• 1:20:48
  and try to run it as hard as
• 1:20:50
  you can. I think unless one
• 1:20:52
  absolutely pops off as far as a headline
• 1:20:56
  or a hook or some type of
• 1:20:59
  new persona that you're going
• 1:21:00
  after, be cautious to double down too
• 1:21:02
  fast or over index.
• 1:21:05
  Definitely over indexing is a
• 1:21:07
  could be a huge pain point. We've seen
• 1:21:09
  that with Homestead clients in the past,
• 1:21:11
  similar to U-Injury,
• 1:21:12
  where they have a bag that sells to a
• 1:21:16
  specific customer and
• 1:21:18
  that's all that they stick to.
• 1:21:20
  It's like, "Okay, well, you might have
• 1:21:21
  tapped everyone in that
• 1:21:22
  niche customer now that has the
• 1:21:24
  ability to spend hundreds of dollars on
• 1:21:26
  this specific type of bag.
• 1:21:27
  You need to think broader
• 1:21:28
  than that." Definitely have seen it on
• 1:21:31
  both sides. Yeah, I would
• 1:21:32
  just add, I think if I had to
• 1:21:34
  pick one thing, and Andrew, I think this
• 1:21:36
  is what you're alluding to
• 1:21:37
  in a way. I think people think
• 1:21:40
  probably due to the chatter on Twitter,
• 1:21:43
  but they think it's just
• 1:21:44
  diversity equals volume and all
• 1:21:47
  of a sudden, it's not actually diverse.
• 1:21:50
  It's not actually looks
• 1:21:51
  different. All of a sudden, you
• 1:21:52
  look back and you zoom out and you're
• 1:21:54
  looking at a figment board
• 1:21:55
  of everything you've created.
• 1:21:56
  This all looks the same, but we didn't
• 1:21:58
  actually change anything
• 1:21:59
  here. We changed the headline
• 1:22:01
  because we thought that that's what it
• 1:22:02
  meant to create diverse
• 1:22:04
  creative. It's like, "Holy shit,
• 1:22:06
  we actually haven't achieved that because
• 1:22:08
  we just wanted to go and achieve this
• 1:22:10
  volume goal of doing
• 1:22:11
  more and more and more." Yeah. Brad's
• 1:22:13
  seen the inside of... We did this
• 1:22:15
  exactly. We hit a point
• 1:22:17
  with one of our new brands where we got
• 1:22:20
  an obsession of hiring
• 1:22:21
  offshore creatives to just
• 1:22:24
  make a ton of statics for us and got to
• 1:22:26
  the point where we were
• 1:22:27
  making 400 statics a week.
• 1:22:30
  They're not unique enough. They were all
• 1:22:32
  starting to look the same
• 1:22:33
  and also just trying to launch
• 1:22:34
  that many assets in a period of time,
• 1:22:37
  depending on your spend
• 1:22:37
  threshold, can start to break.
• 1:22:39
  So yeah, it's definitely about quality of
• 1:22:41
  swing over crazy volume and
• 1:22:44
  different swing, as Brad's
• 1:22:46
  saying. The ads don't look the same.
• 1:22:50
  David's Protein, great
• 1:22:51
  example of that. Go check out
• 1:22:52
  their Facebook ad library. They've got a
• 1:22:54
  ton of diversity in their
• 1:22:55
  account. I think looking at
• 1:22:57
  the third part of this playbook,
• 1:22:58
  strategic whitelisting,
• 1:22:59
  obviously, is something we've
• 1:23:00
  talked about before. I think to get into
• 1:23:03
  this, this is targeting
• 1:23:04
  places in your... targeting
• 1:23:05
  pages rather, in your winning niches,
• 1:23:07
  partnering with relevant content
• 1:23:09
  creators, and collaborating
• 1:23:10
  with niche influencers, niche, niche,
• 1:23:13
  whichever one you feel like,
• 1:23:14
  depending on the day. I think
• 1:23:17
  this is a big one and one that I would
• 1:23:20
  say we are all coming
• 1:23:21
  around to in the last six to nine
• 1:23:24
  months, and particularly in 2025. I feel
• 1:23:27
  like this is an unlock that
• 1:23:28
  we're all utilizing. And last
• 1:23:30
  year, this was a little bit of a secret
• 1:23:32
  sauce. So strategic whitelisting, how
• 1:23:36
  does this done well?
• 1:23:37
  How do you start to find a few of these
• 1:23:39
  folks? And how can this
• 1:23:40
  be part of the playbook?
• 1:23:41
  Yeah, I think that there's different
• 1:23:43
  levels to it. And we just did
• 1:23:45
  an episode not too long ago,
• 1:23:47
  all about whitelisting. And so if you're
• 1:23:49
  looking for more in depth
• 1:23:50
  information, I think that's
• 1:23:51
  going to be your go to. And I will say
• 1:23:53
  before we jump into some of
• 1:23:54
  the things you can do quickly
• 1:23:55
  with whitelisting to get that started,
• 1:23:58
  the next several things, in
• 1:23:59
  my opinion, Zach, I'm curious
• 1:24:00
  if you disagree with this, the next
• 1:24:02
  couple things that we'll talk about, it
• 1:24:04
  doesn't have to go in
• 1:24:05
  this order. Once you have the thing, you
• 1:24:08
  just need something working,
• 1:24:10
  and that's the whole point of
• 1:24:11
  starting wide, you don't have to go in
• 1:24:13
  this exact order. So
• 1:24:13
  just want to call that out.
• 1:24:15
  No, it should be. It's the Brad $500,000
• 1:24:21
  playbook, you can get it today, $4,799.
• 1:24:26
  And it's quite easy payment in the 97.
• 1:24:28
  Yeah, it's all easy payments.
• 1:24:30
  It's a $20,000 mastermind. It's not a
• 1:24:32
  problem. Brad, you got to
• 1:24:34
  productize your mind. But no,
• 1:24:36
  I understand. I totally get to it. It's
• 1:24:38
  not like these can go in
• 1:24:40
  any way. I agree with you,
• 1:24:41
  but I go.
• 1:24:41
  Cool. Yeah, so I think with whitelisting,
• 1:24:43
  so there's a couple
• 1:24:44
  different levels to it. I think
• 1:24:45
  the easiest thing to do is like, okay,
• 1:24:47
  you've got an angle and a pillar, however
• 1:24:49
  you want to call it,
• 1:24:50
  that's working. And you started to
• 1:24:52
  diversify kind of the creative and how it
• 1:24:55
  looks within that. What
• 1:24:56
  you can do, I think that the easiest way
• 1:24:58
  to see if whitelisting can
• 1:25:00
  at least have some kind of
• 1:25:01
  add additional volume to your ad account
• 1:25:03
  is just like literally create a page
• 1:25:05
  that's like going to
• 1:25:06
  chat GPT, give it context about who is
• 1:25:09
  responding to your ad
• 1:25:10
  right now from a persona and
• 1:25:12
  psychographic information. And just say
• 1:25:14
  like, I need a Facebook
• 1:25:14
  page name, like to go with this
• 1:25:16
  or an Instagram page name, like can you
• 1:25:17
  give me 10 examples? It's
• 1:25:18
  going to give you 10 examples of,
• 1:25:20
  I'm not going to make something up off
• 1:25:21
  top of my head. It's going to
• 1:25:22
  give you 10 examples in your
• 1:25:23
  niche. You just grab that plug it into
• 1:25:25
  Facebook, make a Facebook
• 1:25:27
  page, make an Instagram page,
• 1:25:28
  ask it to generate a Facebook profile
• 1:25:30
  image with that. And then you set this
• 1:25:32
  page up, you duplicate
• 1:25:33
  your top ads that are going to that demo
• 1:25:35
  to this page, and you see
• 1:25:36
  what happens. I think we talked
• 1:25:37
  about this on the whitelisting episode,
• 1:25:38
  we did that ripped. It
• 1:25:40
  doesn't always rip, but it can.
• 1:25:42
  Like we can just give an example, right?
• 1:25:44
  Let's say you're like
• 1:25:44
  a men's skincare brand,
• 1:25:47
  then it's like top gifts for men 2025,
• 1:25:50
  whatever, that's the page
• 1:25:52
  name, or like men's health tips
• 1:25:54
  and tricks, whatever. So you can take
• 1:25:57
  that as for GPT is really helpful. But
• 1:25:59
  just to give like an
• 1:26:00
  example of kind of what we're talking
• 1:26:01
  about is something
• 1:26:01
  along those lines. And yeah,
• 1:26:03
  free to do, spin up a page. You don't
• 1:26:06
  need likes on it. You don't need crazy
• 1:26:07
  stuff. You don't need
• 1:26:09
  cover photos unless you really want to.
• 1:26:11
  Definitely just a
• 1:26:11
  profile photo. And yeah,
• 1:26:13
  like Brad said, it's such an easy, I
• 1:26:15
  mean, spend an hour on it
• 1:26:16
  probably in all reality,
• 1:26:17
  but it's an hour task to then see if you
• 1:26:19
  can get some more scale. So
• 1:26:20
  yeah, we've done this now a
• 1:26:22
  handful of times. I think Brad, if you
• 1:26:24
  want to keep rolling in
• 1:26:25
  through the next stage, I can kind
• 1:26:26
  of talk about the influencer whitelisting
• 1:26:28
  stuff that we're doing.
• 1:26:29
  Yeah. So I think there's
• 1:26:30
  kind of like the adjacent one to the
• 1:26:32
  niche page. You can make
• 1:26:33
  your own niche page, right? The
• 1:26:34
  adjacent thing to that is going to like
• 1:26:37
  an advertorial site that
• 1:26:39
  maybe kind of exists in
• 1:26:40
  your industry. I think the quality edit
• 1:26:41
  is one that I was actually
• 1:26:43
  talking about with somebody
• 1:26:43
  on our team today. Like the ritual is
• 1:26:45
  perpetually using the quality edit.
• 1:26:47
  That's like an adjacent
• 1:26:48
  one, but that is one where you have to
• 1:26:50
  pay for them for access.
• 1:26:52
  That's way more involved.
• 1:26:53
  Just duplicate and make your own niche
• 1:26:54
  page if you need to for the
• 1:26:55
  starting. The next kind of,
• 1:26:57
  next step of this is actually going to a
• 1:26:59
  content creator or an
• 1:27:01
  influencer, like a human being as
• 1:27:03
  opposed to a niche page and working with
• 1:27:05
  them. And there's different
• 1:27:06
  levels to this, whether it's
• 1:27:07
  a content creator that has essentially no
• 1:27:09
  following, there's micro
• 1:27:10
  influencers all the way up through
• 1:27:12
  like mega folks. Zach, I think that's
• 1:27:14
  where you have a lot more experience. So
• 1:27:16
  I'll let you jump in.
• 1:27:18
  Yeah. I mean, we tried kind of a handful
• 1:27:20
  of them, right? We tried the one to
• 1:27:22
  10,000 follower person,
• 1:27:23
  the 10 to a hundred thousand. And then
• 1:27:26
  we've also now more recently
• 1:27:27
  been trying to like 300,000 to
• 1:27:29
  a million five follower, influencer
• 1:27:32
  creator, right? I don't know how much
• 1:27:34
  detail we wanted to send to
• 1:27:35
  a previous episode, but if you haven't
• 1:27:36
  listened to that, basically the playbook
• 1:27:37
  that we're doing now
• 1:27:39
  is we're building a relationship with
• 1:27:40
  this person where we're actually taking
• 1:27:42
  the time to get their
• 1:27:43
  contact information, reach out to them,
• 1:27:45
  send them product, just tell
• 1:27:46
  them that we're interested in
• 1:27:46
  a partnership with them in the future and
• 1:27:49
  just see if they want to
• 1:27:50
  get free product and see if
• 1:27:51
  they like it. It's usually where we
• 1:27:53
  start. So it's a slower
• 1:27:54
  process this way than the micro or
• 1:27:57
  whatever influencer they try out
• 1:27:58
  products. Then usually what we're doing
• 1:28:00
  is we're signing like a
• 1:28:01
  60 day contract with this individual
• 1:28:02
  where they have 30 days to
• 1:28:03
  shoot content and then we receive
• 1:28:05
  it, edit it, and then 30 days to launch
• 1:28:07
  those ads based on that 30 day window.
• 1:28:09
  Then we can go into a
• 1:28:10
  month to month contract or a longer term
• 1:28:12
  contract with these people.
• 1:28:13
  We have found that, you know,
• 1:28:15
  for hollow and some of our other brands,
• 1:28:17
  like now we're spending 30 to
• 1:28:19
  $50,000 a month on just like
• 1:28:21
  these contracts because this is a great
• 1:28:24
  way to add diversification
• 1:28:25
  to your ad account of these
• 1:28:27
  creators that are really good at making
• 1:28:28
  content and running
• 1:28:29
  whitelisting ads with their handles
• 1:28:31
  of the content that they shoot. One of
• 1:28:33
  the bigger hacks though with this is
• 1:28:35
  making sure that you're
• 1:28:36
  not just giving every one of these
• 1:28:38
  partners the same brief. So it's like
• 1:28:40
  writing a brief specific
• 1:28:41
  to each one. Now this is where the amount
• 1:28:43
  of work starts to pick up
• 1:28:44
  and this is where I'd say if
• 1:28:45
  you're doing a million plus in revenue,
• 1:28:47
  this is where you can
• 1:28:48
  probably start to tap into this
• 1:28:49
  part of the playbook. A million plus in
• 1:28:53
  revenue per month. This is
• 1:28:55
  where we have found to get
• 1:28:57
  incremental scale. So there's definitely
• 1:28:59
  been some months where this
• 1:29:00
  is like 50% of our ad spend
• 1:29:01
  out to all the AI stuff videos that we
• 1:29:03
  do, all the internal
• 1:29:04
  editing videos that we do, all the
• 1:29:06
  statics that we produce internally is
• 1:29:07
  this whitelisting ads
• 1:29:08
  that with these influencers.
• 1:29:10
  I've seen some brands spend a million
• 1:29:12
  dollars a month behind an absolute
• 1:29:15
  knockout partner like
• 1:29:16
  this. So I mean, it's definitely
• 1:29:18
  something to look into once you're
• 1:29:19
  spending a few hundred
• 1:29:20
  thousand dollars a month on Meta when
• 1:29:22
  you're trying to feel like
• 1:29:22
  you're tapping up against
• 1:29:24
  not being able to spend more
• 1:29:25
  money. This is a great process.
• 1:29:27
  I think that's all super helpful. Again,
• 1:29:29
  yeah, a lot of detail in
• 1:29:30
  the episode that we reported
• 1:29:31
  about it, but I appreciate going through
• 1:29:32
  the playbook again. It's
• 1:29:34
  useful to hear, I think,
• 1:29:35
  across those brands that are doing well
• 1:29:38
  and the agencies that
• 1:29:39
  represent those brands and the
• 1:29:41
  founders membership for this time and
• 1:29:43
  time again, that this is a huge part of
• 1:29:45
  the reason why they're
• 1:29:46
  successful is they have developed and
• 1:29:48
  have a longer term vision with
• 1:29:51
  whitelisting partners,
• 1:29:51
  which is huge. And they've also done what
• 1:29:53
  you talked about
• 1:29:53
  beginning of their own thing to
• 1:29:56
  some degree. One of them was, I think it
• 1:29:59
  was Facebook page, it was
• 1:30:00
  called Make Your Face Feel
• 1:30:01
  Good. And I was like, that's a goodie
• 1:30:03
  right there. And I probably
• 1:30:05
  picked the... So going into
• 1:30:09
  talking about landing page optimization,
• 1:30:13
  how often do you think
• 1:30:15
  when you start to take
• 1:30:16
  winning creatives, personas, and then
• 1:30:18
  building landing pages
• 1:30:20
  that speak to those particular
• 1:30:22
  demographics, how much does that increase
• 1:30:25
  performance that you've seen? That seems
• 1:30:27
  to be a common... I mean, because I will
• 1:30:29
  say that the times that we've
• 1:30:31
  done this, and I've seen other
• 1:30:32
  people do this, it's easily an increase
• 1:30:36
  in 20% in terms of
• 1:30:38
  performance overall, in terms of
• 1:30:40
  decrease in pack or whatever metric
• 1:30:42
  you're looking at. There
• 1:30:43
  seems to be at least a 20...
• 1:30:45
  It's not nothing at my point. So I'm
• 1:30:48
  curious what you think about
• 1:30:49
  it. And what are the keys of
• 1:30:50
  landing page optimization as part of the
• 1:30:52
  playbook? Yeah. And before I
• 1:30:54
  say that, just one more step
• 1:30:55
  back. It's each option in here too. And I
• 1:30:58
  know I just said that it's not
• 1:31:00
  sequential, but I think
• 1:31:00
  the point of this episode, generally
• 1:31:02
  speaking, is once you have something
• 1:31:04
  working, you can just
• 1:31:06
  look back on this, take your notes, and
• 1:31:08
  it's like, "Great,
• 1:31:09
  something's working. What am I supposed
• 1:31:10
  to do next?" And you just go pick one of
• 1:31:11
  these things and it should
• 1:31:13
  be thoughtful. You should be
• 1:31:14
  intentional with what you're doing. But
• 1:31:15
  the point here is, okay,
• 1:31:16
  when you feel stuck and you have
• 1:31:18
  something that's working, but you keep
• 1:31:19
  running... You add budget
• 1:31:21
  and efficiency just drops,
• 1:31:23
  then you can come back to this checklist
• 1:31:24
  and you say, "Shit, I
• 1:31:25
  haven't tried that yet. I should go
• 1:31:26
  do that." With intentionality. So to your
• 1:31:29
  point, funny enough, in the
• 1:31:30
  last week, we've had a really
• 1:31:31
  fun win with landing page tests. So we'll
• 1:31:34
  just say we have a product
• 1:31:37
  going to an older demo. And
• 1:31:39
  we're straight up sending it to the PDP
• 1:31:41
  founder video talking about
• 1:31:43
  why they created it and the
• 1:31:45
  reasons explaining the product fed up
• 1:31:48
  with all the other options that existed
• 1:31:49
  out there. But it was
• 1:31:50
  going to the PDP, which worked fine. And
• 1:31:52
  this is what I meant, where
• 1:31:53
  you could just have to get
• 1:31:54
  something working. It was working really,
• 1:31:56
  really well. But we took
• 1:31:57
  that video and we just like,
• 1:31:58
  we looked at where's the spend going on a
• 1:32:01
  demographic
• 1:32:02
  perspective. Okay, women. It's
• 1:32:04
  going primarily 45 and up. Okay, great.
• 1:32:06
  Now we know a little
• 1:32:06
  bit more about them. What
• 1:32:07
  did the comments say? Does X point
• 1:32:08
  earlier? What do the reviews say? What is
• 1:32:11
  the feedback then to
• 1:32:12
  the customer service team? And we start
• 1:32:14
  to develop an idea of what really matters
• 1:32:16
  to these individuals.
• 1:32:18
  And then we take that and we turn it into
• 1:32:19
  five reasons why. Just
• 1:32:21
  a quick list of page,
• 1:32:22
  primarily because it doesn't require a
• 1:32:24
  lot of dev time, which I
• 1:32:25
  think we just talked about with
• 1:32:26
  Ryan Donne on, I think that's literally
• 1:32:28
  the last episode. It's just
• 1:32:29
  super easy, very copy heavy,
• 1:32:31
  couple images you can throw in there. And
• 1:32:33
  you can have something up
• 1:32:34
  and running in no time. We took
• 1:32:36
  all the learnings from that and we just
• 1:32:38
  put together five reasons
• 1:32:39
  why in order of the volume
• 1:32:41
  that these things were coming up. Meaning
• 1:32:43
  these issues popped up.
• 1:32:45
  The more the issue popped up,
• 1:32:46
  the higher it was on the landing page,
• 1:32:48
  basically. Since we launched that, I
• 1:32:50
  think we're two weeks
• 1:32:51
  into this, the performance on the
• 1:32:53
  efficiency is doubled. Raul
• 1:32:54
  has literally two times time.
• 1:32:55
  Now I wouldn't expect it to double every
• 1:32:57
  time you do this because
• 1:32:58
  there's a couple things that can
• 1:32:59
  happen. One, landing pages enable more
• 1:33:01
  volume so your efficiency doesn't
• 1:33:03
  actually necessarily
• 1:33:03
  change. You're just able to spend more
• 1:33:05
  because you're spending into
• 1:33:06
  it. Or just generally speaking,
• 1:33:09
  or you just get more efficiency, which
• 1:33:11
  eventually leads to the
• 1:33:13
  point number one there.
• 1:33:14
  So that's been insane. And the way that
• 1:33:15
  we launched it actually
• 1:33:16
  was we didn't launch a
• 1:33:18
  post click experience, which I'm pretty
• 1:33:20
  sure in that episode, we
• 1:33:20
  were all like, you should
• 1:33:21
  probably launch a post click experience
• 1:33:22
  split test. I just
• 1:33:24
  duplicated the top ad and flipped
• 1:33:25
  the destination. And basically what
• 1:33:27
  happened in Meta is day
• 1:33:28
  one, original ad to the PDP
• 1:33:30
  spent way more. Then they closed, then
• 1:33:32
  they closed, then they closed. And day
• 1:33:34
  five, it flipped. And
• 1:33:35
  now it's not even close. It's all this
• 1:33:37
  landing page and still holding on
• 1:33:38
  efficiency and still
• 1:33:39
  cranking. And I just keep adding budget
• 1:33:40
  to it. So that's it.
• 1:33:42
  That's my quick example of what
• 1:33:45
  I've seen recently. It's nice. I mean,
• 1:33:47
  it's nice to listen to a
• 1:33:48
  podcast and have something that
• 1:33:50
  people can fall onto that gives
• 1:33:51
  guaranteed results. You know what I mean?
• 1:33:53
  Like that's just so nice.
• 1:33:55
  Brad Vlog guaranteed.
• 1:33:58
  Guaranteed success. Yeah. The one thing
• 1:34:00
  that I want to add is kind of a counter
• 1:34:02
  to what Brad just said,
• 1:34:03
  which is follows getting the point now
• 1:34:05
  where I feel like we've tried every
• 1:34:07
  landing page possible
• 1:34:09
  that we're only now getting incremental
• 1:34:10
  wins off of new landing
• 1:34:12
  pages that we test. So I think
• 1:34:13
  there's a certain point here where after
• 1:34:15
  you've done it, I mean, I
• 1:34:16
  think we talked about it in the
• 1:34:17
  podcast of Doni. We've launched over 100
• 1:34:20
  landing pages in the last
• 1:34:21
  year. After a certain point,
• 1:34:22
  there's a template that works best and
• 1:34:24
  there's a format and
• 1:34:26
  there's language that you use that
• 1:34:28
  just works the best. So I mean, I think
• 1:34:30
  if you haven't run these landing pages
• 1:34:31
  yet, it's definitely
• 1:34:32
  worth doing. Definitely start with kind
• 1:34:35
  of what we talked about before. Start
• 1:34:36
  wide, figure out who's
• 1:34:37
  buying your product, see what paying
• 1:34:39
  points and headlines and hooks are
• 1:34:41
  resonating, get more into
• 1:34:42
  the creative diversity, then maybe play
• 1:34:44
  around with this
• 1:34:45
  whitelisting stuff or move over to a
• 1:34:47
  landing page. I think to Brad's point,
• 1:34:48
  these are kind of the next two things
• 1:34:50
  that we start to mess
• 1:34:50
  around with. But there is definitely a
• 1:34:52
  point of diminishing returns.
• 1:34:54
  You're not going to get this
• 1:34:55
  double ROAS every single time you launch
• 1:34:57
  a new landing page,
• 1:34:58
  especially if you've already tested
• 1:35:00
  different formats, variants, A-B tests of
• 1:35:02
  what sections show first,
• 1:35:04
  all that good stuff. So I
• 1:35:05
  think just to bring it back to reality on
• 1:35:07
  that other side of it is
• 1:35:08
  there will be a point where
• 1:35:09
  you can't push it much more and then you
• 1:35:11
  lean back into the ad
• 1:35:12
  creative stuff and say, "Okay,
• 1:35:13
  well, what more can I go do there?" Yeah.
• 1:35:15
  I mean, I think one piece
• 1:35:16
  that goes into all of these
• 1:35:18
  ideas is offer optimization strategy. And
• 1:35:21
  that can go across so much
• 1:35:24
  of it and is very ignored
• 1:35:27
  by so many people. Obviously, you've done
• 1:35:29
  a ton of offer testing.
• 1:35:30
  Zach, I think that's something
• 1:35:31
  that you do incredibly well. What are the
• 1:35:34
  keys that you wish would
• 1:35:35
  be out there that people
• 1:35:36
  don't talk about when it comes to offers?
• 1:35:39
  So what are the pieces of
• 1:35:41
  it? I mean, it first starts
• 1:35:42
  with the math. If the math isn't
• 1:35:44
  math-ing, it's never going to work for
• 1:35:46
  you. So I say that when
• 1:35:48
  it comes to like, "Hey, we're going to
• 1:35:49
  offer a discount offers a
• 1:35:51
  dollar off. We're going to test
• 1:35:52
  that." Or, "Hey, we're going to do a free
• 1:35:53
  gift to the purchase." What
• 1:35:55
  does that actually mean to
• 1:35:56
  your margin? And what does that mean to
• 1:35:58
  where performance has to
• 1:35:59
  get to for it actually to
• 1:36:00
  back out? Even with bundling. So for
• 1:36:03
  Holo, great example,
• 1:36:04
  started adding bundles in,
• 1:36:06
  increased AOV up. With that increased
• 1:36:08
  AOV, we were able to spend
• 1:36:09
  more into our CPA. And it worked
• 1:36:12
  out and it backed out and it was
• 1:36:13
  beneficial to us. But I think just
• 1:36:15
  starting with the math of
• 1:36:16
  understanding, "Hey, I'm going to, to
• 1:36:20
  Brad's point in one of our previous
• 1:36:21
  episodes, I'm going to make
• 1:36:22
  this starter pack or whatever variety
• 1:36:25
  pack. And then we're going to try and
• 1:36:26
  sell two of them before
• 1:36:27
  we give a bigger discount." You have to
• 1:36:29
  really do the math on
• 1:36:30
  what is the cost of delivery,
• 1:36:31
  like the true landing cost of that
• 1:36:33
  product at the customer's
• 1:36:33
  door with the discount in mind
• 1:36:36
  before you actually figure out then,
• 1:36:37
  "Okay, is this offer going to
• 1:36:39
  make sense for my business or
• 1:36:40
  not?" So that's usually where we start.
• 1:36:42
  So internally, if we
• 1:36:44
  want to change an offer for
• 1:36:44
  Holo or one of our other brands is we
• 1:36:46
  build on a model, build on a
• 1:36:47
  financial model. What is the
• 1:36:48
  cost of goods? What is the cost of
• 1:36:50
  delivery? Hey, if we add more products to
• 1:36:52
  it, does that mean our
• 1:36:53
  shipping cost goes up or a pick pack at
• 1:36:55
  our 3PL goes up? Yes. So we have to
• 1:36:57
  factor that in. Then
• 1:36:58
  we start to figure out, "Okay, here's our
• 1:36:59
  target range CPA that we can
• 1:37:01
  spend into this new offer."
• 1:37:04
  Which may mean, "Hey, if we can push up
• 1:37:05
  AOV 20 bucks, that may
• 1:37:06
  mean we can spend another $10
• 1:37:07
  in cost per acquisition. If we know that
• 1:37:09
  our CPC or cost of traffic
• 1:37:11
  and conversion rate are at these
• 1:37:13
  baseline numbers, I know that I can get
• 1:37:16
  four more clicks and get the same
• 1:37:19
  conversion rate and it's
• 1:37:20
  still going to back out because that's
• 1:37:21
  where the actual cost of
• 1:37:24
  traffic versus conversion rate
• 1:37:25
  backs into your CPA." So I think starting
• 1:37:28
  with the math and figuring
• 1:37:29
  out, "Okay, if I roll out
• 1:37:30
  a new offer, what could that do? What
• 1:37:33
  will that change my AOV to?
• 1:37:35
  And then based on that AOV,
• 1:37:37
  what can I afford from a cost of traffic
• 1:37:39
  or a conversion rate
• 1:37:40
  standpoint of maybe my cost of
• 1:37:42
  traffic can go up, my conversion rate can
• 1:37:43
  come down, or the inverse
• 1:37:45
  or the opposite or whatever?"
• 1:37:46
  I think you have to take into
• 1:37:47
  consideration that math before you pick
• 1:37:49
  your offer, but that's what
• 1:37:51
  a lot of people don't do. And that's why
• 1:37:52
  they're afraid to do it.
• 1:37:53
  Because some people might say,
• 1:37:55
  "Hey, I can't offer 40% offer. I can't
• 1:37:57
  offer 30%. 20 is my max." Well, if you
• 1:38:00
  push up AOV and you get
• 1:38:02
  people to spend twice as much as they are
• 1:38:04
  now, even after discount,
• 1:38:05
  even after cost of delivery,
• 1:38:07
  your contribution margin that you're able
• 1:38:09
  to produce off of your
• 1:38:11
  CPA not increasing because
• 1:38:13
  conversion rate stays flat, cost of
• 1:38:14
  traffic stays flat, because buyer intent
• 1:38:16
  goes up with a better
• 1:38:17
  offer, that's where the real wins can
• 1:38:19
  start to be unlocked. So I
• 1:38:20
  say when it comes to offer
• 1:38:21
  optimization strategies, start with a
• 1:38:23
  math and then figure out how
• 1:38:25
  you can roll it out and what
• 1:38:26
  it can look like on your site and on your
• 1:38:28
  landers and in your ads. Do
• 1:38:29
  you think when you, with all
• 1:38:32
  these options, the idea in theory is you
• 1:38:35
  have something working.
• 1:38:37
  You're maybe hitting your head
• 1:38:38
  against the glass ceiling and all of
• 1:38:39
  these things are checklist options for,
• 1:38:42
  "Okay, if I look back
• 1:38:43
  and I pick one of these, I'm picking
• 1:38:45
  offer, that's maybe going to help me
• 1:38:47
  break through the glass
• 1:38:48
  ceiling." Is that like exactly the thing
• 1:38:50
  about it? Totally. Yeah,
• 1:38:51
  yeah. So for example, for Holo,
• 1:38:53
  we were trying to triple last year, or
• 1:38:57
  triple last year, double
• 1:38:58
  this year. To do that, I'm like,
• 1:39:00
  "Okay, I need to be able to likely
• 1:39:01
  because we're going to double our spend.
• 1:39:03
  We're going to go from
• 1:39:04
  spending 7 million total in advertising
• 1:39:06
  last year to 15 to 20
• 1:39:08
  million this year. Likely the
• 1:39:09
  efficiency of that advertising spend is
• 1:39:11
  going to go down in theory because those
• 1:39:13
  numbers are starting
• 1:39:14
  to get pretty big. I then need to find a
• 1:39:16
  way where my CPA can go up
• 1:39:18
  and the math still makes sense."
• 1:39:19
  So I basically said, "Okay, if my CPA is
• 1:39:22
  going to go up from $50 to $75 on a new
• 1:39:24
  customer acquisition
• 1:39:25
  cost, how can I make those $25 backup?"
• 1:39:28
  And for us, because it's more of a
• 1:39:30
  first-time purchase,
• 1:39:31
  not a crazy LTV play for us, we're trying
• 1:39:33
  to be profitable on first
• 1:39:33
  purchase, I have to push my
• 1:39:35
  AOV up even more. So that's where I'm
• 1:39:37
  basically saying, "Okay,
• 1:39:38
  maybe we're doing bundles of an
• 1:39:39
  8 pair of socks right now and this can be
• 1:39:42
  relevant to anything,
• 1:39:42
  t-shirts, supplements,
• 1:39:44
  whatever. If I'm selling one, I could
• 1:39:45
  sell three." So we basically
• 1:39:47
  said, "Hey, instead of selling
• 1:39:48
  8 on average in our bundles, let's push
• 1:39:50
  up to 12 and let's not change the
• 1:39:52
  discount." And that,
• 1:39:53
  in theory, just pushed up AOV and
• 1:39:55
  maintained our margin
• 1:39:56
  profile that we wanted to be at.
• 1:39:58
  And that's what gave us that little extra
• 1:40:00
  room to spend $25 more and
• 1:40:03
  still be at the same profit
• 1:40:04
  on first purchase. So to me, that's kind
• 1:40:06
  of like it comes either when
• 1:40:08
  you're stuck and you're not
• 1:40:09
  able to push through or when you're
• 1:40:10
  really trying to scale up
• 1:40:11
  and you know with more scale
• 1:40:13
  that your CPA is likely going to go up.
• 1:40:14
  So that's kind of like the
• 1:40:15
  two points where we start to
• 1:40:17
  figure out, "Okay, what's a change in
• 1:40:19
  offer that could maybe help fix this?"
• 1:40:20
  So let me give you a scenario that was
• 1:40:24
  recently presented to me
• 1:40:25
  and see what you think and
• 1:40:26
  reference to offer and sort of all the
• 1:40:28
  things we've talked
• 1:40:29
  about. This particular company,
• 1:40:31
  or this particular company, they have
• 1:40:33
  one... They have a number of products.
• 1:40:35
  They think they have
• 1:40:36
  three products, but they have basically
• 1:40:38
  one bundle that they push
• 1:40:40
  up. It's men's skin care.
• 1:40:42
  And it comes with all three products and
• 1:40:47
  there's not been any innovation
• 1:40:49
  necessarily in the offer
• 1:40:50
  because it's the same products. And there
• 1:40:53
  hasn't been necessarily
• 1:40:55
  any innovation in the landing
• 1:40:56
  pages. They're sending everything to the
• 1:40:58
  landing page for that
• 1:41:00
  particular bundle. They don't have
• 1:41:01
  the inventory or the money to go out
• 1:41:04
  and... I think they're maybe thinking
• 1:41:06
  about developing new
• 1:41:07
  products, but where do they go?
• 1:41:11
  Obviously, I have ideas, but what do you
• 1:41:14
  guys think in terms of
• 1:41:15
  where they could go? Because I think a
• 1:41:16
  lot of folks get into that.
• 1:41:18
  How do they make that offer
• 1:41:21
  more interesting? Because they don't have
• 1:41:23
  the money to go develop a brand new
• 1:41:25
  product or bundle it
• 1:41:26
  differently. It's not like you've got
• 1:41:27
  five face washes or
• 1:41:29
  whatever. It's like, who cares if you
• 1:41:30
  won? I'm a guy, so I'm going to use one
• 1:41:32
  every day maybe. Yeah,
• 1:41:35
  that's a good one. It's a tough
• 1:41:37
  scenario to try and crack. So there's two
• 1:41:39
  things I think of right
• 1:41:40
  away. One is an accessory product
• 1:41:42
  that can cost less than a dollar that
• 1:41:43
  they can source from
• 1:41:44
  overseas that can add $10 to $12 in
• 1:41:47
  value to their overall bundle that might
• 1:41:49
  allow them to push up the
• 1:41:50
  price of their bundle without
• 1:41:51
  having to push up the price of their face
• 1:41:54
  wash or moisturizer or
• 1:41:55
  whatever else they're selling.
• 1:41:56
  So to me, that's like maybe it's like a
• 1:41:58
  scrub brush or something
• 1:41:59
  for their skin or whatever.
• 1:42:01
  It's like you use this every day before
• 1:42:02
  you wash your face and it's
• 1:42:04
  like this extra tool that's
• 1:42:06
  now necessary to get the best experience.
• 1:42:09
  If you can sell that into
• 1:42:11
  it, that's a good option.
• 1:42:12
  I've seen a lot of brands where they've
• 1:42:13
  added this one-off
• 1:42:14
  accessory literally to source from
• 1:42:15
  overseas is $1, $2, but retail value on
• 1:42:18
  it is $15 that'll push up
• 1:42:19
  AOV $15. So that's one that I
• 1:42:21
  would look into if I'm this company, for
• 1:42:23
  example. The other one, which is an
• 1:42:25
  obvious one, is just
• 1:42:26
  increase the price. Try to find a way to
• 1:42:28
  increase the price where you
• 1:42:30
  can make the offer seem more
• 1:42:31
  compelling. So let's say they're selling
• 1:42:33
  this bundle. I just
• 1:42:33
  googled men's skincare bundles
• 1:42:35
  for 40 bucks, 50 bucks. I'm not sure what
• 1:42:37
  they're pricing it at. What
• 1:42:38
  I would try to do is try to
• 1:42:39
  find a way to, on the front end, through
• 1:42:41
  a listicle or a landing
• 1:42:43
  page, educate why our product
• 1:42:45
  is more premium than anything else that's
• 1:42:47
  out on the market so that
• 1:42:48
  someone that's coming in from
• 1:42:49
  a listicle landing page to a product
• 1:42:52
  page, which is likely this bundle page,
• 1:42:54
  is already anticipating
• 1:42:56
  this being a more premium product so that
• 1:42:58
  that way when the price is slightly
• 1:42:59
  higher, they have less
• 1:43:00
  of a reaction to it. So I think that a
• 1:43:02
  lot of brands don't do
• 1:43:03
  that enough, is talk about how
• 1:43:04
  premium things are and use words like
• 1:43:06
  that. Now, the thing that
• 1:43:07
  you can do with that is you can
• 1:43:09
  always price things up and find ways to
• 1:43:11
  discount them down with
• 1:43:12
  subscription. So if I'm these guys,
• 1:43:14
  I'm doing one of two things. If I'm
• 1:43:15
  focused on one-time
• 1:43:16
  purchase, I'm trying to find this
• 1:43:17
  accessory product that's super cheap to
• 1:43:19
  source and easy to source and
• 1:43:20
  bring it in and add an extra
• 1:43:21
  $15, $20 to the AOV of this bundle and
• 1:43:25
  explain why it's necessary to get the
• 1:43:26
  best experience of the
• 1:43:27
  product. Or B, push the price of the
• 1:43:29
  one-time purchase up very high,
• 1:43:31
  significantly much higher,
• 1:43:33
  discount down on sub and save. Maybe
• 1:43:35
  their CPA doesn't change, but
• 1:43:37
  now they're getting much more
• 1:43:38
  subscription revenue. So I'm probably
• 1:43:40
  going one of those two
• 1:43:41
  options, the price increase thing is
• 1:43:43
  another thing that's in the middle. We've
• 1:43:45
  definitely found at Homestead, we had a
• 1:43:47
  client that was selling a product for
• 1:43:49
  $150. We just increased
• 1:43:51
  it to $250 one day on a
• 1:43:52
  shoppable landing page. Conversion rate
• 1:43:53
  didn't change. So I think if you're
• 1:43:56
  acquiring and you're
• 1:43:57
  trying to scale and 90% of your customers
• 1:44:00
  are new, they don't know what your
• 1:44:01
  product is priced at.
• 1:44:02
  They don't know what it was priced at.
• 1:44:04
  You can take those shots
• 1:44:05
  at Gold to see like, "Hey,
• 1:44:06
  what happens if I add another $100 to
• 1:44:08
  this price?" I mean, my conversion rate
• 1:44:10
  could cut in half and
• 1:44:11
  it could still back out if my cost of
• 1:44:13
  traffic stays the same.
• 1:44:14
  So those are the three.
• 1:44:15
  Brad, I know you have to go by the way.
• 1:44:17
  So Zach and I will close it
• 1:44:18
  out, Brad. We want you to stay
• 1:44:20
  alive and not have your wife kill you.
• 1:44:21
  Oh, it's okay. I can hang tight for a
• 1:44:23
  little bit. We're good.
• 1:44:24
  Okay. I'll just, we'll wrap it up here
• 1:44:26
  then. All right. It's my
• 1:44:27
  collapse. Super appreciated.
• 1:44:29
  Good idea, Zach. I mean, I think it's
• 1:44:31
  kind of that practicality,
• 1:44:33
  right? And if you have more
• 1:44:34
  questions like this, always feel free to
• 1:44:35
  direct message to guys
• 1:44:37
  or email me and you're at
• 1:44:38
  talksalabigital.com. I will just say that
• 1:44:40
  I have only received
• 1:44:41
  messages from SaaS vendors. I've
• 1:44:44
  never received a question actually from
• 1:44:47
  the podcast, which is
• 1:44:49
  good and bad. It could be
• 1:44:51
  that we're explaining things well or they
• 1:44:53
  think I'm a total loser or
• 1:44:55
  maybe it's both. So who knows?
• 1:44:57
  But anyway, look, you can always reach me
• 1:44:58
  and your foxalabigital.com or
• 1:45:00
  the guys on Twitter. I think
• 1:45:01
  super interesting to go through. Guys,
• 1:45:03
  anything else in running through the
• 1:45:04
  playbook that we want
• 1:45:05
  to make sure that we're mentioning? I
• 1:45:06
  think just like this is outside of
• 1:45:09
  starting wide because I
• 1:45:10
  think that's kind of inescapable. I think
• 1:45:11
  you kind of need to do that unless you
• 1:45:13
  have a really strong
• 1:45:14
  idea of what's going to work. I think
• 1:45:15
  this again, it's just a checklist of
• 1:45:17
  options that you can work
• 1:45:18
  through when you're feeling stuck. And
• 1:45:20
  this was inspired for me at
• 1:45:22
  least by trying to build an
• 1:45:23
  internal tool for our team. Whereas when
• 1:45:25
  you're hitting the ceiling
• 1:45:26
  and you're not sure what to
• 1:45:27
  do next or things aren't looking like
• 1:45:29
  they're going in the right
• 1:45:30
  direction, go to the checklist
• 1:45:31
  and then think about it. Just stare at it
• 1:45:34
  for a little bit, pick an
• 1:45:34
  option, commit to the option,
• 1:45:36
  and then roll the test with that. So
• 1:45:38
  yeah, hopefully it's
• 1:45:39
  valuable for you all as a resource.
• 1:45:41
  Also, I have had people DM me and ask
• 1:45:43
  questions. So maybe it is a you thing,
• 1:45:44
  I'm not sure. But it
• 1:45:46
  has been very great. And I've really
• 1:45:48
  enjoyed answering some of those
• 1:45:49
  questions. I think at
• 1:45:49
  some point, it'd be fun to share some of
• 1:45:51
  those anonymously here on
• 1:45:52
  an episode. So yeah, Zach,
• 1:45:55
  anything from your own? No, I think it's
• 1:45:57
  looking at all five of
• 1:45:58
  these things in one tweet would
• 1:46:00
  be overwhelming and be like, "I don't
• 1:46:02
  know where to start." Just chip away at
• 1:46:03
  it. I think a lot of
• 1:46:05
  people try to do it all at once and they
• 1:46:07
  kind of half-ass their way
• 1:46:09
  through it. We've used the
• 1:46:11
  word intentional on this podcast and
• 1:46:12
  full-time. You have to be intentional to
• 1:46:13
  get the results that
• 1:46:14
  you want to see. So slowly chip away at
• 1:46:16
  them, start wide, then go
• 1:46:17
  into creative diversity,
• 1:46:18
  then maybe try a whitelisting page, then
• 1:46:21
  maybe try a listicle, then
• 1:46:22
  maybe if that's all of those
• 1:46:23
  things are not working, then maybe it's
• 1:46:25
  your offer. So I think it's just being
• 1:46:27
  intentional about what
• 1:46:29
  you choose to do versus trying to do a
• 1:46:30
  little bit of everything. Unless you have
• 1:46:31
  a big team and you're
• 1:46:32
  a big brand, then go for it and do all of
• 1:46:33
  these things all at once.
• 1:46:34
  Otherwise, for the 99% of us
• 1:46:37
  out there, just pick one and chip away at
• 1:46:39
  it over the course of the
• 1:46:39
  week and likely you'll see some
• 1:46:41
  progress. I will say, Brad, that one
• 1:46:43
  listener sent both of us a
• 1:46:46
  direct message and you had already
• 1:46:48
  responded to him. I said, "Whatever Brad
• 1:46:51
  says, he's my guru," and
• 1:46:52
  then the person just wrote back,
• 1:46:54
  "hehe," which I feel like is proper
• 1:46:57
  response. So they see you
• 1:46:59
  texted us both or message us both.
• 1:47:01
  "Hey, look guys, thanks for being here
• 1:47:05
  and we'll look forward
• 1:47:06
  to the next episode."
• 1:47:14
  The only way that we grow this podcast is
• 1:47:16
  by you sharing it with
• 1:47:18
  your friends. Honestly,
• 1:47:19
  reviews don't really mean anything too
• 1:47:21
  much anymore. They're really meaningful,
• 1:47:22
  but they don't do a lot for the growth of
• 1:47:24
  the podcast. So sharing YouTube links,
• 1:47:27
  sharing Spotify links, sharing Apple,
• 1:47:30
  whatever we call it under the
• 1:47:31
  podcast app now, anything you
• 1:47:33
  can share, the better we're going to be.
• 1:47:36
  Guys, anything else
• 1:47:37
  you want to say on this?
• 1:47:38
  Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube,
• 1:47:40
  rack up those views for us.
• 1:47:41
  We'd love to see it. And then
• 1:47:42
  subscribe. Make sure to subscribe on
• 1:47:44
  YouTube as well. And I
• 1:47:45
  relentlessly refresh the YouTube
• 1:47:46
  comments because it dictates my mental
• 1:47:48
  health for the day. So please say
• 1:47:49
  something nice about all of
• 1:47:50
  us. Thank you everyone. Thanks for
• 1:47:53
  listening. Honestly.