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Judge May Shush Trump….in America?? · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not under any gag order.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, Donald Trump's lawyer tests out some novel
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: defense arguments on all five Sunday shows. Mike Pence says
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: he's open to testifying against Trump. And Ron DeSantis finally
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: admits that Joe Biden won the election. Then Desiree Timms
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: from Innovation Ohio joins to talk about the crucial abortion
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: rights vote happening there today. And fresh off another weekend
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of sheer insanity, Elijah's back for another round of Take Appreciators.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: But first, just 24 hours after Donald Trump swore during
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: his third arraignment that he wouldn't intimidate witnesses again, He
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: posted this all-caps message on Truth Social. If you come
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: after me, I'm coming after you. In subsequent posts over
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the weekend, Trump also lashed out at star witness Mike Pence,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the judge who's been assigned to his case, the city
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: where his case will be tried, Nancy Pelosi, who he
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: called a sick and demented psycho who will someday live
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: in hell, and the U.S. women's soccer team, whose World
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Cup defeat is one reason he believes, quote, the USA
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: is going to hell. A lot of hell. Jack Smith's
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: prosecutors alerted Judge Tanya Chutkan of the coming after you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: threat as part of their request for a protective order
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: that would prevent Trump from speaking publicly about the evidence
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the government shares with him. Trump didn't seem phased by
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: any of this during his rally in South Carolina on Saturday.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: where he went after Jack Smith and Joe Biden.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: The man that's doing it, I really believe he's mentally ill,
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: and it is an outrageous criminalization of political speech. They're
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: trying to make it illegal to question the results of
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: an election? So they rigged the presidential election of 2020,
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: and we're not going to allow them to rig the
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: presidential election of 2024 because our country's not going to survive.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Off to a strong start in this case. Let's start
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: with Jack Smith's request for protective order. Tommy, why does
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the government want one and why did they include Trump's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: threat in their filing?
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: So it's the Smith team wants the judge to prevent
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Trump from making public evidence that was handed over to
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: his lawyers in the discovery process. That evidence will likely
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: contain personal identifying information about witnesses that Trump could then
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: use to harass them on Twitter or dox them, have
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: his supporters dox them, otherwise intimidate them. So it seems
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: like that's what's driving a lot of this, as evidenced
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: by the inclusion of the truth.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Seems like doxing would be one of the nicer things
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: his supporters would do. And of course, aside from their
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: own safety, which is important to protect, if he publicly
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: threatened people on the witness list, perhaps they wouldn't want
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to testify, which is another issue.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I feel we're all reading a little
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: too much into this. Presumably Joe Biden came after Donald Trump.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And Donald Trump plans to defeat Joe Biden and come
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: after Joe Biden.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, like literally as president.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: He came.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: It's just a statement.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can't believe I can't believe Laura didn't use
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, he he's he's the best lawyer Trump's
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: ever had. But that's not saying much.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: And of course, this would still Trump saying that this
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: is restricting my First Amendment rights. Trump would still see
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: all the evidence against him. He just wouldn't be able
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: to get his own copy and share it around or
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: post it on Truth Social. So Trump's lawyers filed their
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: opposition to the protective order. They argue that it's overly broad,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a restriction on his First Amendment rights. And they also
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: accused Joe Biden of, quote, capitalizing on Trump's indictment because
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: he posted a tweet where he drinks from a dark
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Brandon mug that they're selling in his merch store.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, well, they're, you know, this is not Rudy Giuliani.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: He's like a more serious lawyer. And so he's actually,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: they're making an argument.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: That as we've said, but, uh, and he's not part
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of it anymore.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Not yet.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Right. But, uh, but I'll save that.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Leave it in, leave it in.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: But, uh, they're trying to argue that he has to
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: be able to, that, that, that these legal proceedings.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Are part of the political process.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: We need to be able to talk about them publicly.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's like, All of this is shadowboxing because
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Jack Smith is saying, hey, we want to protect sensitive information.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: What is the sensitive information that they're referring to right now?
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Well, none.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: They're referring to the fact that Donald Trump is already
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: issuing vague and ominous threats.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: After he was specifically told not to by the magistrate
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: judge when he was arraigned and he said, yes, sure.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Well, by the way, he's been through this rigmarole in
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: several of the other legal proceedings that have already taken
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: place and that in I don't remember if it's the
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: civil fraud trial affecting the E. Jean Carroll trial, the E.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Jean Carroll trial affecting the civil fraud trial. But in
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: one of those, the way in which he was publicly
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: trying to influence the case led the other judge to
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: decide that some of this information needs to be protected.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Because of the way he was going after prosecutors. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I believe maybe a third case.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: There was one instance where he posted on Truth Social
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: that death and destruction could follow if he were charged.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: And I think that led to him being admonished. Oh, yeah.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I forgot about that. Man, what a journey.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: The other part of this, too, is like Trump's lawyer
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: has they kind of redlined the order to try to.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: kind of make it about sensitive stuff, which would free Trump.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: The red line is they just like commented on it,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: they cut.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Didn't you like that? It was like a standard contract.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Well, it was sort of like, I've never, like normal
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Trump lawyers try to fuck Borat's aid and then get
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: drunk on Newsmax. They don't usually open up a document
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and make edits. That's a kind of a twist. But
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: they're trying to create the space for Trump to talk
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: about some of the political implications publicly. As if no
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: matter what the barriers are, Trump isn't going to blow
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: through them anyway. Again, he didn't send accidentally post a
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: document that had a witness's address. He's began threatening people
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: for being involved in the trial vaguely, but still.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: It's a blanket threat.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just a loose general over umbrella threat.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: And look, one of the reasons he's on trial is
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he famously did this with his vice president.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, there are unique. First Amendment implications in this
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: trial because he is running for president. I do I
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: do think they have a bit of a case that
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: to not be able to talk about anything in discovery
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: would be challenging. But I think there is a real
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: risk of Trump, you know, browbeating a witness out of
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: testifying or otherwise intimidating prosecutors. I mean, he's calling. Jack Smith,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: the deranged psycho at events.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So, yeah.
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: This is why it's sort of like we're dancing on
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the head of a pin. It's like, oh, you can
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: redline any fucking document all you want. Oh, I'll only
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: talk about the non-sensitive ones. This is Donald Trump on
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the toilet on a Sunday. There's no controlling him.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think on the witness list, like if
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the judge agrees to the red line, he would then
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: have freedom to disclose witness interviews, recordings and other evidence
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: from outside the grand jury proceedings. Basically, the Trump lawyers
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: stipulated that whatever happened in the grand jury should remain secret,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: but that outside the witness So you could imagine there
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: was a few witnesses who would be scared off by this.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: You could tweet GPS coordinates for Mark Meadows' exact location. Exactly.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: In the hoard, yeah. Well, you keep saying he's going
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to blow through all these red lines. What can the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: judge do if Trump keeps making threats? Can she throw
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: him in jail?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: It brings me no pleasure to say that she could.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: It's obviously all... It's hard to.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: This is all so unprecedented, so it feels... ridiculous and
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: very resistancy and online to be like, the judge could
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: revoke bail and lock him up until the trial.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Straightforward from here.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: But all of this is unprecedented. And I was remembering
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: an example of a federal defendant who had their bail
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: revoked because they were, it turns out, accused of committing
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: crimes while on bail. It was Michael Avenatti.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Remember that?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Michael, there's you can there are plenty of examples of
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: federal in federal cases of judge saying I'm revoking bail.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Two of the Proud Boys had their bail revoked because
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it turns out there was more evidence showing that they
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: were more deeply involved in threatening to lawmakers. So like
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it all we're all we're in this uncharted place where
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: it seems inconceivable that a judge would revoke the bail
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of a former president because he's such a menace to
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: the public and have him fucking frog marched. until his trial,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: but all of this is unprecedented.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Tommy, do you think that the special counsel filing to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: request a pretrial detention would just say, lock him up?
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: That would be good. I mean, they could baby step
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: up to lock him up. The judge could impose additional
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: conditions in the least restrictive way possible that will make
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: sure he shows up at trial and not put other
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: people at risk. So prohibiting contact with witnesses is one
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: option that she could go down. But yeah, I mean,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: ultimately you get to revoking bond, which would lead to
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: litigation and probably delay the trial. But wow.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: It feels like she would probably give him a warning first.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Or make him explain himself. Yeah, for sure. And then
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I do think that beyond the, you know, pre-trial detention option,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: which does seem like the most extreme option in this case,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, if he continues to piss off the judge,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the judge has a lot of power here. She has
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of leeway. She can, like, Rule against his
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: request for recusal, which should probably do anyway, because he
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: said he has a very powerful case for her recusing herself,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: even though his lawyer is like, we're not sure. We're
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: not sure if we're going to call for recusal yet.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: She could rule against his venue change request, which, again,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: she probably will anyway, because he won. He wants to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: go to a more politically diverse West Virginia where he
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: won by 60 points instead of Washington, D.C., where he
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: committed the crime. Like, you want a jury in West Virginia?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Commit a crime in West Virginia. Go do that.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Don't give him any ideas, wealthy guy.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I decided to do a little pro bono work here
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: for Mayor Trump and see if this argument would fly.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: There is some precedent that he could cite. One, Timothy McVeigh,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: the Oklahoma City bomber, who his lawyers got a judge
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: in Oklahoma to move the trial to Denver because the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: entire state of Oklahoma was prejudiced against them for conducting
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: what was then the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil ever.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: So I guess they can move it to fucking Antarctica.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: That's an argument you can go for. Well, and also
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I would say this.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Who on the planet doesn't have an opinion of this guy?
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I would also suggest.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Think about what Timothy McVeigh would say about whether or
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: not it worked. And I don't think it's very much.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: No, it was good.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Just so people understand, he was executed.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: It didn't go well.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: And the other thing she could do, of course, is
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: his biggest play here is to delay, delay, delay, delay.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And if she gets pissed off enough, she's just going
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to rule against all of his attempts to delay.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: But like, stepping back from like, yes, obviously this judge
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: is well aware of the public attention to this and
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: is going to go to great pains to avoid detaining
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: the former president of the United States before the trial.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: That said, Donald.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: By the way, if you want some fun reading, there's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a Washington Post story from last week about like, could
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: he go to jail? What happens with the Secret Service protection?
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: It's a real fun read.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: But like everything about what Trump is doing, the reason
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: he feels so safe sitting in his house saying threatening
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: things about every lawyer and prosecutor is because he is
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: counting on the fact that he is not treated like
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: everybody else. And at a certain point, he is going
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: to push this Either to the point of being threatened
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: by the judge one last time or actually at some
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: point potentially being detained or.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Just as close as he could possibly get to it.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: That's what's going to happen.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I wonder what do you think would be worse for him?
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Being detained like like I could see her maybe like
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: as a house arrest kind of thing or just saying
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: you're not allowed to have a phone. taking away his
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: posting ability i.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Think spf sam bank free just got sent to jail
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: because he had been making hundreds of phone calls to
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: journalists and talking to people yeah you're getting trolled so
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: you know there are ways around this.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Why do you think trump seems intent on trying this
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: case in the court of public opinion which has been
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: what's happened since all of the indictments.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I just i think that this is the only way
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: his brain works he only thinks in terms of publicity
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: and uh it's certainly true now that he's a politician
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: running for re-election but like He tries to win every
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: battle on a minute-by-minute basis, even if it hurts his
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: long-term prospects. And in this case, also, he has the
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: added benefit of maybe influencing the jury pool that's out
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: there because he knows that you need one person on
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: your side to get a hung jury.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I just think in every way, he believes the rules
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: don't apply to him. And even the act of showing
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: restraint and discipline in the hopes of actually helping his
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: own defense and his own ability to operate in the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: legal system is feels like a capitulation that normal people
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: have to do, but that does not apply to him.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: And so, of course, he's going to say whatever the
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: fuck he wants because he's Donald Trump and he can
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: do whatever he wants whenever he wants. And there's not
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: much more logic to it than that. I think his
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: audience is not the jurors or potential jurors. I think
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: it's the electorate. If he wins the election, he is
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a free man. He'll either make the DOJ drop the case.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: He will pardon himself if he has already been sentenced
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: by then, which is unlikely because of the time constraint,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: but he might. he will commute his sentence. Like everything
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: he's doing is about persuading. I think the only jury
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that matters, which is an electorate that put, made him
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: president in 2016, almost made him president in 2020. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: now he wants to do it again in 24. It's,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: it's pretty scary and wild, but that's, that's where we are.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: He wins.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: I think he'd like to win the cases as well.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I think, I think it's a
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: both and here.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think it, I mean, but if he went,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the only thing that matters to him, I think is,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: if he, yeah, obviously he doesn't want to be convicted,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: but if he's convicted, all he's going to say is like,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I was convicted by an unfair jury in DC and blah, blah, blah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And they were out to get me. And now I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: going to win. And if I win the election, the odds.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Of winning the election, when you're sitting in jail, go
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: down a little bit, probably.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: And also, I don't think he's doing the thing like
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: sending off a menacing tweet about the judge is not
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the way it's not. Obviously it's not the best way
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: to persuade the American people, but in the show, like
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: he's like, trying his best to win in the court
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: of public opinion.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: He's just spouting off because he's furious.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: In his mind, this is his argument, right? That I'm
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: being persecuted, that they're all coming after me.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: And that's, I mean, this, I think this, the whole
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: race is going to be about this.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Like there is, there's going to be all the other issues,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: like all the economic stuff, everything else we're talking about.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Like if Donald Trump is the nominee from his standpoint,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: all he's going to talk about is this case is 2020. Again,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: is how they're coming after him, are the indictments, just
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the way that this calendar is going to play out.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: And to your point, before he can run in the
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: general election, he's got to win the nomination. And all
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of this is about keeping attention on him and focus
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: on him. And it is popular.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. Certainly for the primary, this is a great
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: argument for him. So John Lauro, Trump's defense lawyer, made
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the case for his client on all five Sunday shows
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: where he again tried to argue that Trump's attempted coup
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: was merely an exercise in free speech. and that he
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: truly believed in his heart of hearts that he won.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Loro also tested out a few other novel defenses during
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: his interviews. Let's listen.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: What President Trump did not do is direct Vice President
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: Pence to do anything. He asked him in an aspirational way.
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: If he had proof he won the state, why did
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: he threaten the Secretary of State with a criminal charge?
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: That wasn't a threat at all. What he was asking
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: for is for Raffensperger to get to the truth. That
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: was an aspir... Hold on one second. That was an
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: aspirational ask.
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: He said the president asked him to violate the Constitution,
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: which is another way of saying he asked him to
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: break the law.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: He never said... No, that's wrong.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: That's wrong. A technical violation of the Constitution is not
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: a violation of criminal law.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: What do we think about John Loro, guys? And where'd
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: he come from? Where'd Trump get this guy?
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Do you guys remember? Yeah, Tampa. He was one of
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: the stories talks about how he was one of Tampa's
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: most decorated defense lawyers.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Tommy, I'm so glad you said that line. I laughed
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: so hard when I read that. I wanted to like
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: put that up on.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: He defended the manager of the Pink Pony Gentleman's Club.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: So he's got good at going for him. You guys
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: remember when Liz Truss became the prime minister of England
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: in a tabloid? put up a live stream of Liz
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Truss versus a rotting head of lettuce. That's what I
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: think about every time Trump gets a new lawyer.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Didn't the lettuce win?
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: The lettuce won.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: So I think you're underestimating my man, John Laro, who
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I love.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: He wasn't dead on the Sunday show.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: One of Tampa's most decorated defense lawyers.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you something. This is not some Yahoo.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: This guy went to Georgetown. This is when I fell
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: in love with this man.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: So did Donald Trump Jr., right? Sorry, Penn.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: This is when I fell in love with this man.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: A guy named Ralph Paul went to an Italian restaurant
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: in the Tampa area. He ordered a dish called shrimp
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: and scallop verdura. He ate all the shrimp.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: And scallops out of the dish.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Not enough, not enough.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Right up your alley.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Then sent it back and said, take it off the bill.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: This was a pasta dish.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Are you sure this wasn't your dad?
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: He's a hero to dads everywhere.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: So wait, then he refuses to pay, walks out on
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: a $ 46 bill, goes to trial, okay? And John Loro
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: represents this guy. This guy gets on the stand and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: he says, as a veteran, I do not just sit
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: and take unfair treatment. Then John Loro said what I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: think is the most amazing sentence I've ever heard. It's about, again,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a shrimp and scallop pasta. He says, verdura in Italian
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: means true. You know who won? You know who won?
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: John fucking Loro.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Do not underestimate this man.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Eric Trump went to Georgetown. My bad. He did run
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: circles around the Sunday house shows.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's okay.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Keep your head on a swivel.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Speaking of low bars.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: This isn't Rudy and then that guy at the impeachment
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: who said Philadelphia.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Who I still think about all the time. We'll do
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the deposition at my office in Philadelphia.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Who talks like that?
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: It rules.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: He also defended the ref, NBA ref, who was betting
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: on games he officiated.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I didn't know there was a whole Netflix
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: documentary about that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: That's pretty good.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And Laura says in the Netflix doc, this is all
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: from that great Washington Post story that we got all
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: this from. It says, my strategy always coming into a
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: case instinctually is to fight. I don't like cooperating. I
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: like fighting. I mean, Trump must have saw that documentary
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and was like, get me that guy.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: But that same story also was like, well, you know,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: he actually, you know, got into the business by doing
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: low profile cases and working things out behind the scenes.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: And then he, you know, did this famous case and
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: fought in public. So I don't know. I guess he's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: decided that he likes these bruising PR battle cases now.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Would you call the shrimp verdura case a low profile?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty, that's pretty big time. Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Okay. It's just below impeachment.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about the, uh, the free
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: speech defense on Thursday's pod, though, Laura seems to be
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: expanding on that argument to say that these were all
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: just aspirational asks and political disagreements over thorny constitutional issues.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: What do you guys make of that argument?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Look, you can stand outside a bank and say all
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the money inside is yours, but you can't do a
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: heist even if you find a dumbass lawyer who will
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: write a brief saying that you know they're all his diamonds.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think the broader point is, you know,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: you can say whatever you want and you can pursue
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: all legal avenues to make your case, which Trump did
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: in all the courts, subjecting to various counts and rule changes, etc.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: But when you create a slate of fraudulent electors, that's
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: no longer a constitutional dispute. That's a conspiracy to commit fraud. Yeah, so....
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I love it. To your point, so you're talking about
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the advice of counsel defense, which I think is a,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: which they're definitely, they're definitely, they seem to be going for, though,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: as a couple of lawyers have pointed out now, that
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: would require him to, including Bill Barr, to return it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: would require Trump to take the stand, which seems like
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a mistake for John Lauer. The John Lauer we know
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: would not put Trump on the stand.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Seems like a bad idea there, yeah.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: The one thing I'll tell you that has worried me
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit is, and Trump has made this argument
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: himself on Truth Social a few times, is that, like,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I wonder if their ultimate plan here is to argue
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: that the Electoral Count Act was vague enough about the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: vice president's role and about what happens with dual slates
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: of electors, et cetera, et cetera, that, you know, there
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: was some advice from counsel, but also how was anyone
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to know exactly what the law said? And you know
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: it was vague because Congress... last year just decided to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: clarify the role of the vice president by changing the legislation.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm just and I don't think that's necessarily
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a good argument for jurors, because I think that you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: can like Jack Smith can bring a strong enough case.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I start to worry then about the Supreme Court and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: how the Supreme Court treats fraud definitions and how they
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: throw out the Bob McDonald corruption scandal and all that
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. That was just one thing that I
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: thought about.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, Sometimes it reminds me of like true
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: crime documentaries where they get somebody basically red-handed trying to
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: plot the murder of a spouse or something. And then,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: but they never actually say, kill my spouse. They say like, hey,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: would you consider disposing of this issue? Because they watch
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: mob movies and they think you can like, that works.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And then they just show the video of the jury
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: and be like, when he said dispose of the issue,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: he was talking about his wife's body. And then jury's like, guilty.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And so a little bit of it, a lot of
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: this is like, you can like, you know, posit all
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: these theories and say he was just aspirational. They're going
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: to have to present this to a group of people.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And what the indictment makes clear is there is so
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: much evidence that no reasonable person could interpret to mean
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: that Trump believed any of this horseshit. So they're going
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: to just have to make this ridiculous argument, not to
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Newsmax and not to Fox News, but to actual human beings.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And you're right, maybe the Supreme Court saves him. But
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: None of this is possible.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: John Eastman even said he thought his argument would be
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: rejected by the Supreme Court. So that, I think, makes
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: your approach harder. I mean, Jamie Raskin pointed out that
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: you have people currently in jail for counterfeiting one vote
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: in an election. The idea that it's okay to counterfeit
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: an entire slate of electors or steal an entire election
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: from an entire electorate and that that's okay is just irrational.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Well, as I say, my argument to my concern would
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: be that the real dummies here our Congress for thinking
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that they needed to pass legislation to clarify the vice
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: president's role. Because if you really think that our whole
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: constitution was set up so that we can have all
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: these elections, but if you happen to be the president
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and you have a vice president of the same party,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that that vice president can just throw out all the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: votes and that's okay. Like, I don't think anyone believes,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know anyone believes that. I don't think there was,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: there was vagueness in the law about that.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And I remember we talked about this at the time
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: that like, you can try to reform your way out
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: of a coup. in all the ways you think you
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: should to strengthen the law and sure have at it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: But in the end, this was about power and they
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: were going to justify it anyway they could.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: But I could tell from him, his whole like violation
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: of the constitution and not the law thing, I was
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: wondering why he was doing that. I do think that's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: part of the reason he's trying to say like, well,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: this was a constitutional dispute and maybe it was violation,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: but that's handled by the Supreme Court and blah, blah, blah.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: They just want to make it all political speech, which
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: is protected under the First Amendment.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Political speech and political argument. They're going to end up
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: being like, this is not a crime. This is politics.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: This is what happens in politics. So Mike Pence said
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: over the weekend again that Trump didn't just ask him
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to pause the certification of the election, which is what
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the lawyers are arguing. He specifically demanded that he overturn
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the election. Pence also said he'll testify if asked. Laura
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: responded by saying Pence will be the defense's best witness. Tommy,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: why do you think he said that?
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Because he has no better argument. So what what they're
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: trying to say is they're saying Trump is ultimate ask.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: was to delay the vote, not to throw out the vote.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: That might be true, but that came after Mike Pence
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: repeatedly rejected his request to throw out the votes. So
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: they're just trying to, they're really kind of hanging this
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: one on a technicality here. My ultimate ask was just
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: delay the vote. And Mike Pence is like, yeah, that's
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: not at all true. That's not what happened.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: It's only true if the word ultimate means final ask.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: But also there's other strange, like throughout, right, there's one
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: moment in the indictment where the other, they were like, oh, actually,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you can forget overturning it. Just say you're sending them
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: back to the states. That was another request that they made.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: There were so many different ways they were trying to
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: get Pence to not certify the election. And every single
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: time Pence said that he didn't have the authority.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Pence got asked on CBS and he goes,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: quote was, that's not what happened. It's pretty clear.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing they want to do with
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Pence is have him on the stand and say to him,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: You have said before that what Trump did is a
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: violation of his oath of office, but you don't think
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: it was criminal. Why don't you think it was criminal?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Because remember, Pence wasn't sure about the indictment at first
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and he has all those quotes and. Pence was out
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: there after the election floating a whole bunch of theories that, yeah,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: maybe there was voter fraud in the state. So they're
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: going to say even you believed there was voter fraud
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: in the state.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do believe that you can't ask a witness
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: in a trial to say whether or not you think
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the jury should convict them. So there's some, they have
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: to just ask about what happened. But yeah, I do
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: think it's like, clearly, Loro is trying to, you know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: there's a kind of whatever bravado thing about saying like,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Pence would be our best witness, not our worst, not
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the guy that could confirm all the crimes in exactly
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: his state of mind.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does totally go to the, like, this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was just a political disagreement between two men, you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and Donald Trump could have been right or could have
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: been wrong, but he wasn't criminal.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: You can criminalize those in America.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly. Cross-examination, too.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Mike Pence popping up on the Sunday shows
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: was a reminder that other Republicans are still running for president,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: though the reaction that Pence got in New Hampshire to
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: his potential turn as a star witness against Trump wasn't
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: exactly positive.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: There's the sellout right there.
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: Pence on the fence.
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: How are you doing?
• 26:06
  Speaker 9: Why'd you sell out the people? Why'd you sell out
• 26:08
  Speaker 9: the people?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Why didn't you stand?
• 26:10
  Speaker 9: Why didn't you uphold the Constitution?
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Why didn't you uphold the Constitution? You sold the people out.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: You sold them out.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: You sold all these people out.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: We couldn't see it, but there was just a guy
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: holding his Duncans going, Trader! Trader!
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you for asking.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: I do love Concord.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: And then he went, ha ha ha.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, what is he doing?
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Chris Christie went to Ukraine and barely anyone noticed.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis was mocked by the Trump campaign and others
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: for his small crowds in Iowa. And while he hasn't
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: gone as far as Pence or Christie, he did finally
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that at least some of Trump's election fraud conspiracies
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: weren't true.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: Yes or no question. Do you think the 2020 election
• 26:57
  Speaker 9: was stolen? I've said many times the election is what
• 27:00
  Speaker 9: it is. All those theories that were put out did
• 27:04
  Speaker 9: not prove to be true. But what I've also said
• 27:06
  Speaker 9: is the way you conduct a good election that people
• 27:08
  Speaker 9: have confidence in, you don't change the rules in the middle.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: Of the game.
• 27:13
  Speaker 7: So you recently said the election is what it is.
• 27:15
  Speaker 7: So can we just put this to bed so you
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: don't have to be asked about this a million more times?
• 27:21
  Speaker 7: Yes or no, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
• 27:25
  Speaker 8: Whoever puts their hand on the Bible on January 20th
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: every four years.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Is the winner.
• 27:30
  Speaker 8: After the election, they were talking about Maduro stealing votes
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: on the voting machines or whatever, and none of those
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: theories proved to be true.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the.
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: Day, you know, Donald Trump helped facilitate that whole set
• 27:43
  Speaker 8: of circumstances.
• 27:44
  Speaker 10: Okay, but respectfully.
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: you did not clearly answer that question. And if you
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: can't give a yes or no on whether or not
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: Trump lost, then.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: How can you? Of course he lost.
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: Trump lost the 2020 election.
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: Joe Biden's the president.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I love that Ron DeSantis' plan is to just give
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: like extremely basic civics lessons and like basic facts. Like
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the person who gets inaugurated is the president. Joe Biden
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: is the president.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: It's, It's incredible.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It is incredible. The contortions this person is doing, as
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: if he's three points ahead. He's running like he's ahead.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: He's just trying to protect his lead by being super
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: careful and not giving the base anything they don't want
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to hear.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Also, the argument was that Dominion Voting Systems had ties
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: to Hugo Chavez, who died in 2013.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I was wondering about Maduro.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Come on, get it right.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Look, I get what we talked in our last pod
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: about this. That in the New York Times poll, right,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: there's the 37 percent of the MAGA base. There's the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: persuadables and there's the 25 percent that are, you know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: never Trumpers. And clearly DeSantis is looking at the persuadables
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and the never Trumpers and is like the never Trumpers
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: believe that Joe Biden won. And the persuadables believe that
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump won. So I'm going to have to straddle both.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And his idea for straddling both is being like, so
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden definitely won, but there was some mischief for
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that election. But he won. But we didn't fight hard enough.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to go to Washington. We're going to storm.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: He said somewhere else, we're going to storm Washington on
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: January 20th. We're going to slit the throats of the bureaucrats.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: You hear that?
• 29:24
  Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Slit the throats of the bureaucrats. You know, the Venn
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: diagram you need, though, is the people who want a
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: president who doesn't look like a weak loser. who can
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: answer a question directly. Like, oh, I think circle potentially.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: And like, she's such a petulant, whiny little fucking baby
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: about it too. Like, oh, you're met, you're annoyed. You're
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: getting asked this question. Well, that's because you walked into
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: this trap that Donald Trump laid two years ago and
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: got you all to walk down this path where you
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: question the results of the elections. And now you've lost
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: the ability to call this guy a loser. You knew
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: you were gonna run for president. lay the groundwork, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: call him a fucking loser.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Meatball.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: It's so fucking dumb. It's also just like.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: He looks like a meatball.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: That was the best nickname.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It's also like, I can't stand being distracted by this
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: major liability from my opponent. Let's get back to talking
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: about my failing campaign.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Let's get back to attacking Bud Light in the Florida
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: pension programs or whatever nonsense you're talking about that day.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: If we're so focused on Trump's indictment, we don't have
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: time for your many questions about why I'm unappealing to
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: any person I meet.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Now, wait. He did get some shit for his crowds.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe his answer wasn't great. But he got some less
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: horrible news from the New York Times Iowa poll. He's
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: losing to Trump 44-20 in that poll compared to 54-17
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: in the national poll. Tommy, what do you make of that?
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's good. Now, first of all, I do
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: like that our friend Tim Miller single-handedly created a terrible
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: narrative for Ron DeSantis by posting a photo where he
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: sort of went to the top of the steps at
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Spanky's Livestock Auction House. And took a photo of how
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: empty the crowd was. You know, spankies. Now, in Ron's defense, Tama,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: Iowa is like 3,000 people. It's the middle of nowhere.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: And he had other events that day.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And none of them showed up.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: But it did suggest that your campaign staff thought that
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: more people would be arriving when you pick a venue
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: that big. It's like rule number one of advance. But
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I do think that poll shows, hope is the wrong word,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: but it does show that he's doing better in Iowa
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: than he is nationally. And it suggests that they might
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: be getting a little traction in Iowa where they've been
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: running ads and actually campaigning it out there. It could
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: be that Iowa conservatives just don't like Trump and never have.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: But DeSantis has a 77% approval rating. He's seen as
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: more moral than Trump, more likable than Trump.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Which is wild.
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: 47% of Trump supporters in Iowa said they would consider
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: other candidates. So it shows there's a little more room
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: to maneuver in Iowa. We'll see.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And then 40% say, in Iowa, say DeSantis is the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: best candidate to beat Joe Biden. And just under 50%
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: say that for Trump. But nationally, Trump beats him by
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: 30 points on that measure of who's the best to
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: go against Biden. I was just trying to look in the,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: in the crosstabs of that poll for any details that,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you know, months from now when Ron DeSantis is suddenly
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the GOP nominee and we look back at all of
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: our old pods of America, if we'll be wrong, I
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: still don't think we will be, but it's, there's a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: few things in there, which, what happens in Iowa, right?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Where like, if you're there all the time and you're
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: on the ground, like we've seen it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Well, and I was, I just also think this is
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: less about Ron DeSantis showing strength and more, there's a
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: little bit more weakness for Trump. And I do think
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: that like, if we do look back on these pods
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and I, and I hope we do, and I hope
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: we just, you know, come back.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And like, we listen to all the primary ones.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: In 2020, 2016, 2016, this is a, this.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Is a, every single pod, the second you hear it,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: just think of it as a brown banana. It's now
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: or never. That's it. once it's over it's over don't
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: come back never go back you.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Can make some good banana bread with the brown ones
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: though yeah sure okay.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Uh but uh or smoothie i do like if you
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: were if you're trying to like come up with or
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: a smoothie or a smoothie or a smoothie but de
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: santa's saying yeah trump lost the first time he's asked
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: as opposed to the fifth time i don't know it's
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: going to really like move the needle for him or
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: for like the overall uh uh republican race but maybe
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: there is some logic to kind of If what you're
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: seeing is, hey, maybe there's softness there that's happening because
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: of the events of Trump being charged for multiple felonies
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: and facing six months of endless trials and scrutiny. Like,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: let's hang back. Let him hang himself without me pissing
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: off the people I need to win. I don't think
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: it's a good idea. I don't think it's right.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, the hopeful sign here is ostensibly Iowa
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: voters are the ones who have been paying more attention,
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: getting courted, seeing ads, seeing candidates in person. So getting
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: a little traction there is a good thing. I don't
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: think I'm not ready to count DeSantis out. I think
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: what I've learned about him is he is a less
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: talented politician than the hype machine set him up to be,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: but he's still sitting on a ton of money. He
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: has quite possibly the most flawed opponent in political history
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: and like stranger things have happened. I mean, it's only
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: August 7th. I mean, we're, yes, we're getting later, but
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: the first debate hasn't happened yet. The first, you know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: like as you guys remember, things get crazy in December
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: in Iowa, but I just do quickly want to give
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Trump's team a shout out for one of the better
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: quotes I've seen this cycle about that DeSantis quote. uh
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: photo of him in this livestock auction venue which is
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: tiny crowd for ron desantis in a livestock auction venue
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: nobody is buying what that heifer is selling i mean
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: also stop wearing clothes with your fucking name on them
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: ron he's why does everything say ron desantis on it
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: do you think people don't know who you are.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I think when people just wear their own merch all
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the time it's um sorry it's just really driving.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Me crazy awful i also in the in the uh
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: In the New York Times write-up of their poll, they
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: interviewed some of the poll respondents, and one of them said,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm with DeSantis now, but every indictment makes
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: me lean more towards Trump, which is just so, like,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: it's like two on the nose, but I'm just like, okay.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Our house is on fire. Quick, all the valuables inside.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: The other thing I didn't get from the poll is,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just the way they ask questions.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: This is why you can't pay too close attention to polls. So, yeah,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: you said, Tommy, 47% of Trump supporters said they'd consider
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: other candidates. In the same poll, 97% of Trump supporters
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: say they support him strongly, which is just, I guess
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that's just like, I'm considering other people, but I'll always
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: love Donald Trump. Maybe that's it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I also think like this, you know, we've talked about
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: like polls that show like, oh, they'll never support this person.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: 43% say they'll never support that person. And people are
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: very bad at knowing what the will or won't do.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I remember like Bill Clinton famously had a poll where
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the majority of Democratic voters said they would never support him.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And then the next thing we knew, he was the nominee.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Not us.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: We were children, but the people at the time. I
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: think that there could be a kind of critical mass
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: of fears about what happens if Trump becomes the nominee.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And then they're going into a bunch of trials that
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: make him completely unelectable to the public. And then all
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: of a sudden there's this chaotic, but if not him, who?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And they're all kind of standing there.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Democrat-like panic?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, what you need is a few polls.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: It could change slowly and all of a sudden.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: You need like that New York Times poll or a
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: few polls of that caliber to suddenly... Actually, no, you'd
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: need it to break through the right-wing media ecosystem. You can't...
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: If it's just a New York Times poll, that's not
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: going to work. But let's pretend, just for the sake
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: of it, that suddenly there's a Fox News poll out
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: that shows that suddenly DeSantis is tied with Biden or
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: beating Biden, but Trump is now down five, 10 points
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: on Biden. And now he's at 25%. Now we're seeing
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: him in the courtroom. And all the Republicans running for
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: president because they're petrified at this point that they're going
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: to lose and they're wasting all their time are at
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the next debate. And all they're doing is just throwing
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: haymakers at Trump and saying, he can't win, he can't win,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: he can't win. And suddenly he can't win becomes this
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: echo throughout the right-wing media echo chamber. And then they
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: all do it. I still don't think that's going to happen,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: but that would be the.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like, yeah, it's possible and it's not
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: going to happen. Then all of a sudden it could.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And then there's this, just these, just a scramble up
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a greasy poll by these like six people.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Who are also greasy, also pretty greasy.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: They come with their own grease.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: What you're describing is basically what happened on the democratic
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: side in 2020, right? Like The Iowa caucuses were a
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: null result, thanks to the counting, thanks to the shadow app,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: which we designed. Bernie wins New Hampshire. There's a big
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: electability freakout. And then Joe Biden wins South Carolina, and
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: we're off to the races with the pandemic.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: The only difference is Joe Biden didn't clown himself as
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Mike Rogers did for nine months.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: He absolutely did not, but the campaign struggled for a
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: long time.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it struggled. The difference is it struggled kind of quietly.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is if you— so Trump's at 44,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: DeSantis is at 20. If you think back to 2016
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, there were nine candidates. Ted Cruz wins with
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: twenty seven point six percent. Trump comes in second with
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: twenty four point three. Rubio with twenty three point one.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: And then everyone else is in single digits. Now there's
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: eight candidates and Trump's already at forty four. So it
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: does like he could he could lose a bunch and
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: still win.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: It has to be like. They're just waiting around. There
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: has to be like a surprise, like a sudden collapse.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: But it could happen.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: And on their side, like Iowa has not historically picked
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: the ultimate candidate for Republicans. New Hampshire, it's like you
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: can have this crossover voting from Democrats. So it's taken
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: a little less seriously. Then you get South Carolina. It's like,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: all right. now some real conservatives are going to vote kids. Like,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: get out of the way, John McCain. Get out of
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: the way.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Well, there's also, there's something in common between Ted Cruz
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: and Ron DeSantis, which is, which is, you know, Ted Cruz.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Picking issues that no one cares about.
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: But also like Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz wins
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: in Iowa and New Hampshire's like, oh, yuck. Like, no,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: thank you. We're not doing what they did. That's some
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: fucking Midwest shit.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Ew.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: It's like dipping everything in ranch. Yeah. No, thank you.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Deep fried nonsense.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Speaking of future frontrunners, I just want to do a
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: quick world segment here. Tommy, did Chris Christie end the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: war in Ukraine?
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think he did. You know, it's an interesting
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: strategy to... make a high profile visit to a foreign
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: country to talk about a policy that's deeply unpopular within
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: the Republican primary electorate. But look, I give him credit
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: for it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Do you think Lovett gave him that advice?
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he, did you?
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: But he did the whole like train from Poland thing
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: to get to Kiev and he went to Bucha where
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: there were horrible, you know, war crimes and atrocities committed.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: And I don't know, look, support for Ukraine is dropping
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: pretty quickly in the U.S. So Chris Christie going out
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: there and waving that flag is, I think, there's some value.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Didn't he gift Zelensky something?
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. What did he bring? He brought handwritten lyrics from
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Bon Jovi.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It's My Life by Bon Jovi. And honestly, I can't
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: make fun of it. I think it's the sweetest thing.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: He's like, I brought you something. It's from my favorite
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: person in America. And it's about living your life.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: The backstory was like, there was a video of like
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: some town in Ukraine where people were sandbagging, preparing for
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: the invasion, listening to that song. And so that got
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: in his head. And then he went to Jon Bon
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Jovi and he told him he was going over. And
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Jon Bon Jovi like had, you know, FedExed him like
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: handwritten lyrics or something. It's a very nice story. It's
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: just super corny.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And when Dan's out, he's co-hosting with you, Chris Christie?
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: What is that happening?
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: He's our fifth host.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: Jon Bon, he's going to host.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: In another example of how far these candidates will go
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: to get some attention who aren't Donald Trump, DeSantis has
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: tentatively agreed to debate Gavin Newsom on Fox News with
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Sean Hannity as the moderator. They're currently arguing over the rules.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I honestly haven't been able to follow the back and
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: forth on Twitter, but it's supposed to take place this November,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. So there'll be one there'll be one
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: big event this November.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Newsom proposed two dates.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: DeSantis proposed four.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: So basically Newsom said, I'll debate you. Sean Hannity can
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: be the moderator, no audience, four minute open statements, mano
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: y mano. And then DeSantis comes back and says, I
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: want an audience and I don't want opening statements. I
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: want two minute videos that Fox.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: News could see.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Hype videos.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And so this was Newsom's statement. He said, DeSantis' counterproposal
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: is littered with crutches to hide his insecurity and ineptitude,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: swapping opening statements with a hype video, cutting down the
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: time need he needs to be on stage, adding cheat
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: notes and a cheering section. Ron should be able to
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: stand at his own two feet. It's no wonder Trump
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: is kicking his ass.
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: That is awesome.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: At that moment, it's like fucking, you know what, Gavin?
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Debate him. Let's go. Let's fucking go. I'm in. I
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: think this is a win-win. I was hoping one of
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: you would take the other side because debate.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: You know how I bet we'd take the other side
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: when we need her right now? Dan Pfeiffer.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, I don't like disagreeing with Dan.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Famously anti-Fox.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Well, we're all, oh, yeah, no, we're pro-Fox.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, we're three big Fox fans. We all tried
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: out for Tucker's slot.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Here's my pitch. DeSantis has to do something drastic to
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: break through. This is something different. He has to look
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: like a fighter. This might help. Look, this thing is
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: completely stacked in Ron DeSantis' favor with Sean Hannity as
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: the moderator, right? So, I don't know, like, if you
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: have to take a week off the trail to prep, yes,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: that would suck, but maybe you just fold this into
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: debate prep. And then for Gavin, like, Gavin, there's nothing
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: in the world that he wants to do more than
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: physically fight Ron DeSantis. And this is the closest he
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: can get.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Well, also, there's a little bit in which there's sort
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: of no losing for Gavin Newsom because he's walking into
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: a debate where everyone knows he's being moderated by fucking
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Sean Hannity. So it's like he does OK. That's amazing.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: He gets bullied. He gets like he gets like tag
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: team by Hannity and DeSantis. It's like he went on
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: enemy turf. It's sort of like a win win for.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Him, too.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I think it.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I cannot argue against it being a great move for
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom. I think he has nothing to lose. The
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: expectations are going to be low. He did great with
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Hannity when he was one on one with Hannity and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: his whole brand. You know, if he's going to run
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: for president at some point, is this like Democrats need
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: to fight back?
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: We need to take the fight right to.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Leave our safe spaces.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to be the guy who's not afraid
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: to fight with Republicans. And within a primary context in
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. where negative partisanship is a powerful motivator,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: if not the most powerful motivator, that's going to help him.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I could argue that it's not the greatest idea for DeSantis.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: It will get him attention. It does show the Basem fight. But, like,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: he's not running a fantasy campaign against Gavin Newsom. He's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: running in a primary that he is losing very badly. Like,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: he should go try to win the primary. It's like,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: what are you debating this random California governor? Get back
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: on the fucking trail. Trump's beating you by 40 points.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Short of beating up the sketch artist in Trump's courtroom, like, I.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Don't know how he's going to get covered.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: That's not a bad idea. That might be a better idea.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Write that one down.
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: He should just be in the background of the sketches.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: With DeSantis on his vest.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: You know who loses this? Gavin's staff. They are going
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: to be doing so much prep to prepare him for this.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Because you know that Gavin is going to go into
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: this thinking too that like, I'm going to beat him
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: on the policy details. The facts into death. That's not
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: what it's going to be.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Righteous facts.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, we've talked about this a bit in
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the context of the Republican primary, but we are headed
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: into a 2024 campaign where the likely Republican nominee could
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: be facing seven trials, four criminal, three civil, that he
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: is already making a central part of his message. Politico,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: just this morning, called it the courtroom campaign.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: I loved it.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: They said if 2020 was the Zoom campaign, which, like,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: was it? I don't remember that being the Zoom campaign.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I don't remember anything about 2020.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Same.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And this is the courtroom campaign. How do you navigate
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: that if you are Joe Biden's campaign?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Can I first of all just say that I just
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: want to be honest and say that I lost track of.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: One of the civil trials.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I actually thought it was six and I actually forgot
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: one of the two federal civil trials.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: So there's one that's divided into two.
• 44:40
  Speaker 7: There's E.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Jean Carroll one. E. Jean Carroll the sequel.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: Are we counting? Maybe.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: And then there's the fraud one and then there's the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: business fraud one.
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's one other fraud. I think I
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: think there is.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: There might be. Oh, is it the truth social fraud one?
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Are we counting that?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I think there's another fraud in there.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: There might be the pyramid. Yeah, anyway. I don't know.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: And then the four criminal, of course, the three that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: already happened and we're all waiting on Georgia.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Anyway, you're sitting in Wilmington, Delaware, which is where the
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: campaign is.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Or maybe you're in the White House. What are you
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: doing about all this?
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: This is hard. I mean, I think that Trump is
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: going to say that Joe Biden is weaponizing DOJ against me.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: This is all political persecution. I don't think you want
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: to help him with that. I think everyone in the
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: country is going to hear about these cases. You know,
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think Joe Biden's the best messenger for delivering
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: criticisms along these lines. So I don't I think you
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: probably you criticize Trump on about everything else and you
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: focus on your positive message. And I don't know. But like,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: it's not a very satisfying answer.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: There was a poll that came out today, what, that
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: like 71% of people have heard little to nothing about
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: the Inflation Reduction Act. So he's going to go out
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: on the campaign trail. Anytime he says anything that touches
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: on any of this, that will be news. But he's
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: going to be trying to counter-program these trials with some
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: kind of a positive message and trying to find a
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: way to connect the positive story to the Trump negative story.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a kind of message in there
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: about like, I'm delivering for you. He's focused on himself
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: and finding ways to like make news that ties you
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: to Trump while getting some of the positive economic and policy.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Stories into it. I don't know what else to do.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can even make a character argument against
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: Trump that, or a culture argument against Trump that isn't
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: these based on these trials too.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can do the whole thing. It's just,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: it's really hard to Talk about what your own DOJ
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: is doing.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: This is an unprecedented situation.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. I think you absolutely cannot comment on
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: the trials or the indictments, right? I do think, I've
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: thought about this for a while. I think that he
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: has to just say what he has said in the
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: past about this, which is that Trump is a threat
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: to democracy and this election is about whether democracy survives
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: or not, just like he said it in the midterms.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: And then when they say, and of course Trump is
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: going to say, He politicized this and he's they just
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: said today and they're filing right that Joe Biden capitalized
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: on the indictment just because of the fucking dark brand thing.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: So they're going to say it anyway, no matter what.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: They're also, by the way, going to be out there
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: saying Joe Biden's a criminal. His family's criminal and he
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: should be impeached. So you can have one side saying
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's a criminal and Joe Biden can't say Trump's
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: a criminal, but he certainly can say what he has
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: said before about his being a threat to democracy. What
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: he did on January 6th, what he did trying to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: steal the election. And I can imagine that. There's going
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: to be a lot of debates in the White House
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: about this. I'm sure the lawyers are going to be
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: nervous about it, right? Because like how close are you
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: going to get to commenting on the trial? I'm sure
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: there's going to be some political folks. And look, I
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: think on paid advertising, the paid advertising is going to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: be like healthcare, economics, IRA, trying to break through. Joe
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Biden is not going to break through with any of
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that shit in the press because this is going to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: be about Trump all the time. It's always about Trump
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: when he runs. Now that he's going to be facing
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: all these criminal trials, it's going to be even more
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: about Trump. So when Joe Biden's out there, like he's
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: going to get covered when he talks about Donald Trump
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and your message about Donald Trump then becomes super important.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: And I think you have to get to the core
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: of what will honestly happen if Donald Trump wins this election,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: having faced all of these indictments. Like, what does that say?
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: What is he going to do? What is that going
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: to mean? Like, I think you have to be honest
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. It's tough.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: It's really tough.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure that's the thing voters care about. That's why,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: that's why it's like, I don't know.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's like, You're trying to figure out
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: what the con like you're saying like, oh, that's what
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: the contrast should be. And like maybe that's right. Or
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: maybe you just trust that the coverage of Donald Trump
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: being on trial is going to be so awful and
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: so ever present that it's not your job to kind
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: of layer on top of it. Like I think of
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the moment when Joe Biden got so much coverage when
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: there was that split screen. He's in Kentucky with with
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell talking about bridges. He didn't have to say
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: a word about Donald Trump for that to be the story.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: You know, Donald Trump is pulling out him selling a
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: dark Brandon mug. But like there have been a lot
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: of moments where Joe Biden, just by being in the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: split screen, has made an argument without him having to
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: say Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know. This whole debate is going to be
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: so frustrating because you have a conversation happening that's getting
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: picked up by all the press about whether a judge
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: in Washington, D.C., can rule on this case fairly because
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: it's a liberal venue. And then you have another case
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: in Florida where the judge presiding over it was literally
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: appointed by Donald Trump. And it's like, oh, what?
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: How are we having this debate right now? I do think,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm very worried about what you said earlier, John,
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: about the effort to both sides. This that's happening in
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Congress right now and the degree to which In conservative
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: media and the sort of like Joe Rogan stratosphere, the
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Hunter Biden allegations are breaking through. Like I saw a
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: clip of Rogan the other day talking on the show
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: about how he actually thinks the Biden family is more corrupt. And,
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: you know, he might be a lost cause at this
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: point and he might be, you know, demographically, you know,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: kind of like an old rich white guy from Texas,
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: like probably not going to get him. But it's a
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: big audience that's going to hear this kind of stuff.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: And I think it's pretty easy to convince people that
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: actually all politicians are corrupt and bad. So kind of
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: who cares? which is where I think you ultimately want
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: to make an argument about who's going to help you
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: the most.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I went through a whole midterm election and
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: had done all those focus groups. And I will tell
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: you that like the voters will sit there. And if
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: you ask them what matters, they're not going to say
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: this trial matters. They're not going to say all this
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: shit matters. They're going to say economic concerns matter to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: them for sure. But having made that argument through the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: midterms and then watch Joe Biden make democracy very much
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: an issue, And made January 6th an issue and made
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: all this an issue. And then seeing the results of
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: the election and seeing how election deniers uniformly did poorly,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: did worse than other Republicans. And seeing that that actually
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: got like a lot. It wasn't just a base turnout thing.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: It was a persuasion thing that there was a lot
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: of sort of swing voters who were like they just
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: needed to be reminded. And I sort of worry that
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: the coverage in the mainstream media to your both sides
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: issues will not do our job for us on this
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: or do the Biden campaign's job for them. I was
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: surprised to see like last week, the New York Times,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: and it was a very good piece, but the headline
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: was like, free speech versus election fraud in the trial,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: free speech on trial. Like that argument is going to
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: get into the mainstream press.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I just, I think Joe Biden has to obviously make
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: an argument about how Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think about how Joe Biden can
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: make a positive case for his accomplishments and what he
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: wants to do in a second term that will be
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: interesting enough to break through. It may be impossible. Maybe
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: there's no way to do it. But I think there
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: have been moments where Joe Biden's been able to do
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: it in the past. And he does it by pointing
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: out that while he's fighting and passing and legislating and
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: doing executive orders and making actual positive changes, this is
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: what Donald Trump is focused on.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Right. There's something there's some value to doing.
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: It's just a couple more Chips Act events.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: It's going to be complicated.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Again, I pitched this in our company Slack. I think
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: we got to start getting stuff in the background of
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: old episodes of Suits. Everyone's watching. Apparently, the whole country
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: has just decided they're watching fucking Suits. If you're not
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: watching Suits, be careful. Someone's going to knock on your
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: door and say, hey, you love this country? Because you
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: don't seem to be watching Suits. And you don't have
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: to watch Suits.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: This is America.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But it makes us worry about you that you're not
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: watching Suits because we're all watching Suits.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Old episodes of Suits.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I have an idea. Ooh. Joe Biden and the cast
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of Suits sit down and they do a retrospective.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: That's a good idea. I love that. Like a rewatchables
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: kind of thing.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Especially their most prominent cast member.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: It is very fun.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Nearly toppled the monarchy.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: That's the power of Suits. That's what I'm saying. Suits
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: has already.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: One authoritarian down.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: One to go. The Suits run Hollywood.
• 52:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Let's get Suits on this.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I honestly.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know what Suits is. I just know what
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: they wear. Is it lawyers?
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: It's one of those shows where I've seen the pilot
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: three times now.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: I haven't gone past the pilot.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I've seen like six episodes.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: And one of them's a lawyer and one of them
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: is not a lawyer.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I keep seeing the pilot.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: But one of them says they're a lawyer.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Ah, but they're wearing suits.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: It is fun that all these people like Jason Miller
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: and Susie Wiles and all these Trump staffers who are
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: part of the indictment are going to have to be
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: on the campaign and comment on it. That's even more
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: complicated than.
• 53:12
  Speaker 7: The Biden piece.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: And they're going to testify. And then they're going to
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: have and then Trump's going to see that they testified
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: because he's going to see the transcripts and then he's
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: going to be on the campaign plane with them and
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: he's going to throw them out of the plane.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Not enough ketchup in the world. Also, I like that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Mike Pence was at all these guys are so afraid
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: to just answer a question. Mike Pence was asked, like,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: will you testify? Will you testify? And he said, I
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: have no plans to testify.
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: It's not a party.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: You're not hosting an event.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a baby shower. No, of course you
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: don't have a plan. It's not a planned thing. You
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: haven't been asked to testify yet.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: I like when he also got asked about whether he
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: kept a journal and how many notes he was taking.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: He's like, I would on occasion write things in my calendar.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, did you, Mike? I think it's a
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: little more comprehensive than that.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Remember when that... Remember there was that Senator Nelson, not
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Bill Nelson, the other Nelson.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: No, you're thinking of Bob Graham.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking of Bob Graham.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Yes. He ran for president.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, he ran for president. And then he wrote down
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: everything and it had these endless journals with tiny little
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: notes of every single thing he'd ever done.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: And guess what? He did not do well in the primary.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Did not work for him.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Ran for president. The intense, detailed journaling did not work
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: for Bob Graham.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: You know what the twist is that's kind of interesting
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: to me? it's so one of the Mike Pence was
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: asked about what would happen if he testified or what happened.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: And he, and he says that like, I, you know, I,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I will, I will tell the truth and uphold my
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: oath to the constitution and almighty God.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: He's crossing the Delaware a lot in these statements.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: He absolutely is.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: But I just like thinking that after all these years
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: of Mike Pence using religion to justify every fucking heinous thing,
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: there's a little part of them. It's like, I can't
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: lie in the stand.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: God will see. And I think that's cool.
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: No, he, he, he believes it.
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: I love it.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Whether that's cool. That's his thing. Um, anyway, We're going
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: to talk more about this, I'm sure. We're going to
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: have seven trials to go through. Or maybe there's six,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: who knows. Okay, two quick housekeeping items before we head
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: to break. If you haven't yet subscribed to our Friends
• 55:01
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• 55:04
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• 55:21
  Speaker 1: to crooked.com slash friends to join today. Also, if you
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles, cancel your Thursday night plans and
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: thank us later. The Love It or Leave It Errors
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Tour is back at Dynasty Typewriter this Thursday at 7.30 p.m.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: It's an incredible lineup.
• 55:36
  Speaker 10: Wow.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Do you know who's in it?
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Maria Bamford, Ike Barinholtz, Ian Harvey, and Bridger Winneger.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Who's great.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Tell your hinge date you have to work late and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: head to crooked.com slash events to get your tickets now.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Just read what's in front of me. When we come back,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Tommy talks with Desiree Timms, the founder and CEO of
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Innovation Ohio, about the big abortion rights vote happening there
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: today and where the fight goes next.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: A critical fight for abortion rights and democracy is playing
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: out today in Ohio, where people are voting on a
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: ballot measure called Issue 1. Joining us today to explain
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: this hugely consequential fight is Desiree Timms, the president and
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: CEO of Innovation Ohio. Desiree, thanks for doing the show.
• 56:26
  Speaker 10: Thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: So let's just start with the basics. What are folks
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: in Ohio voting on this week?
• 56:33
  Speaker 10: So Republicans in Ohio have pulled off the what I
• 56:37
  Speaker 10: call the ultimate scam. That is this special election, which
• 56:41
  Speaker 10: is today, August 8th. Now, a few weeks ago, meaning weeks,
• 56:47
  Speaker 10: because we have not had a ton of time to
• 56:49
  Speaker 10: prepare for this election. We had roughly 85 to 90 days,
• 56:54
  Speaker 10: but we knew that this was coming. Republicans decided to
• 56:58
  Speaker 10: push for an August special election to increase the threshold
• 57:02
  Speaker 10: for passing constitutional amendments in Ohio from a simple majority,
• 57:07
  Speaker 10: 50 plus one, like the way democracy has always worked
• 57:10
  Speaker 10: in this country, to 60 percent. And they did that
• 57:15
  Speaker 10: because they watched what happened in other states as they
• 57:18
  Speaker 10: took up abortion ballot measures. And they saw 57 percent,
• 57:22
  Speaker 10: 58 percent, 55 percent. And Republicans thought, aha, let's make
• 57:27
  Speaker 10: our requirements 60 percent. That way we can make sure
• 57:31
  Speaker 10: that we continue to ban abortion here in Ohio. That's
• 57:34
  Speaker 10: what we're up against right now.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: So I guess the Republican position on abortion rights is
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: that it's an issue for the state's but only in
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: states where proponents of abortion access can get a super majority.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: So that's what we're saying now.
• 57:47
  Speaker 10: That's exactly right. And they have a pro-life movement and
• 57:53
  Speaker 10: air quotes on pro-life, right? Funding this campaign. And so
• 57:59
  Speaker 10: they tried to change the rules, offer a very last
• 58:03
  Speaker 10: minute election. We don't even have enough poll workers in
• 58:07
  Speaker 10: every area of the state because it was such a
• 58:09
  Speaker 10: last minute effort to to pull off this special election
• 58:14
  Speaker 10: for a very special scam. But we are emboldened and
• 58:18
  Speaker 10: fighting back and really thrilled with some of the early
• 58:20
  Speaker 10: vote numbers that we have coming in.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I want to ask you about the funding question
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: because it's a lot of money coming from out of state,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: it seems like, from conservatives. But in addition to raising
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: the threshold from 50 percent to simple majority, as you said,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: to 60 percent, Issue one would also require petitioners to
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: get a certain number of signatures from every single county
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: in Ohio. So there's 88 counties in Ohio. Currently, you
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: have to hit this signature threshold, and I believe only
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: 44 counties. What would that change mean for grassroots organizations
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: like yours?
• 58:54
  Speaker 10: So I want to be very clear to all the listeners.
• 58:57
  Speaker 10: It is already hard to change the Constitution. Do you
• 58:59
  Speaker 10: know how hard it is to track Grandma and Annie
• 59:03
  Speaker 10: and Johnny down in the parking lot to sign? a petition, right?
• 59:07
  Speaker 10: It is already hard work. So what they are trying
• 59:10
  Speaker 10: to do now is say, hey, right now you can
• 59:12
  Speaker 10: get 44 counties to collect petitions to turn into change
• 59:18
  Speaker 10: and make a constitutional amendment. What the Republicans have also
• 59:22
  Speaker 10: done with this is say, look, we're going to require
• 59:24
  Speaker 10: all 88 counties. So that means that one county- one
• 59:29
  Speaker 10: county can stop the entire state. That means everyone who
• 59:34
  Speaker 10: lives in, Governor DeWine, Republican, has in his budget that
• 59:39
  Speaker 10: 85% of all Ohioans live in metropolitan areas, 85%. So
• 59:45
  Speaker 10: that means one county can literally, let's say it's a
• 59:49
  Speaker 10: rural county or a small county, can upend the progress,
• 59:53
  Speaker 10: the opportunity, the needs and the wants and advancements of
• 59:56
  Speaker 10: 85% of Ohioans.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a horrible little mini electoral college for
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: just Ohio. You mentioned that there's some amazing early turnout numbers.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: Almost 600,000 people have already voted. That's way above turnout
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: for the recent Senate primary. It's below sort of a
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: general election level for governor or president. How are you
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: guys feeling about what that early vote number means for
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: you and your prospects?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 10: So we feel really good about the early vote number.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 10: We have been holding rallies in many town halls in
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 10: every corner of the state and not just big cities,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 10: small cities and rural areas. And what we know from
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 10: the early vote data is that a lot of the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 10: folks who have requested ballots, who turned in ballots, who
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 10: voted early are registered Democrats. And so we hope and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 10: pray that those folks have voted no. But I'm also
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 10: personally optimistic about some of the Republicans because We know
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 10: that this issue is not just about abortion. It's about
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 10: so much more. And so folks who care about school
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 10: levies and bonds, like all of that has to go
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 10: on the ballot. And so everything is at stake. And
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 10: so I think our coalition, which is very broad, includes
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 10: labor and a lot of different folks and small businesses
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 10: who are also saying vote no on this very, very
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 10: important ballot. And I hope and I think. that we're
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 10: going to surprise a lot of folks once the official
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 10: data comes out to see not just Democrats are voting no,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 10: but folks all across the political spectrum.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. You see Republicans whining about the 2020
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: election when Democrats tried to make it easier for folks
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: to vote in the middle of a pandemic. They're complaining
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: that that's changing the rules in the middle of the game. Meanwhile,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: in Ohio, Republicans are trying to make it much harder
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: for people to vote in the middle of an election,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: which would also, as you mentioned, it wouldn't just apply
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: to this effort to enshrine abortion rights into the Constitution.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: If you are a Republican who wants fair congressional maps
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: and nonpartisan sort of anti-gerrymandering language put forward, this could
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: stop those efforts too, right?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 10: That's exactly right. This is a very important issue. And
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 10: I also want to add that we have the strictest
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 10: voter ID law in the country, you have to have
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 10: a photo ID in order to vote. So not only
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 10: have they wrote out this election during the middle of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 10: the summer, you also have to have voter ID, an
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 10: ID that matches your address, or you cannot vote, you
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 10: will be turned away. And we have so much at
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 10: stake with all of the rules changes, because that's what
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 10: Republicans do when they don't win the game. They change
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 10: the rules and they rig the process. That is what
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 10: we're up against right now, And this is the precursor
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 10: to what we have coming forward, not just in 2024,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 10: but in a few months in November. We have abortion
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 10: on the ballot and we also have marijuana on the ballot.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: So I saw that one of the biggest donors or
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: spenders on the Yes campaign, which is the folks we're
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: fighting against here, is an Illinois conservative mega donor named
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Richard Uline. He contributed $ 4 million to the Protect Our
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Constitution PAC campaign. His contribution made up 82.5% of the
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: Yes campaign's funding, I believe, according to the Washington Post.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Why do you think this out-of-state multi-hundred millionaire, billionaire, I
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: don't know what he is, is spending so much money
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: on this race?
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 10: That is something that perplexes all of us. Why is
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 10: this guy from Illinois with no ties to Ohio so invested?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 10: in ruining our lives. We deserve to have good things.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 10: We like nice things too. And you would think after
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 10: everyone in the country and around the world heard the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 10: story about the nine-year-old girl in Ohio who was raped
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 10: and had to travel to Indiana to have an abortion,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 10: that people would think and see this is a bad thing.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 10: This is not something that is smart in terms of policy.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 10: This impacts people's lives. But no, this guy decided, hey,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 10: I want to chip in as much money as I
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 10: possibly can to continue to trample reproductive rights and health
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 10: care for people in Ohio. So that's what we are
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 10: up against. But we have received donations from people all
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 10: across the state, $ 5, $ 10, $ 20 at a time. We
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 10: were on air before the Yes campaign. we were on
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 10: air longer and we've been fighting back tooth and nail
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 10: dollar for dollar. And so I feel really confident about
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 10: our campaign and our movement because we organized right away.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: So obviously abortion access will be a huge part of
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: the 2024 campaign across the board. Are there things that
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: you guys have learned from your organizing, from the work
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: you've done from, I don't know how, like what messages
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: work on the doors of, that the Biden campaign or
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: other candidates can learn and steal from?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 10: Absolutely. I think when we are talking to young voters
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 10: and communities of color and people who don't pay attention
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 10: to politics as much as us, it is very important
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 10: to make sure that the voter is the hero. It
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 10: is not about what XYZ politician has done for you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 10: and how they make your life better. It's about, hey,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 10: because you voted, In the last election, we were able
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 10: to cap insulin at $ 35. It is because you voted
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 10: in the last election, student loans were able to stay
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 10: on hold for so long. And the Biden administration fought
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 10: to make sure that we could have access to have
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 10: our student loans canceled, even though the Supreme Court struck
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 10: it down. That fight happened because you showed up. And
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 10: when we center our politics on our policy wins, around
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 10: the voter, making the voter the hero, they feel empowered
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 10: to vote. Because with so much gerrymandering and the voter
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 10: IDs and Republicans rigging the rules, people are turned off.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 10: And so how do you turn people back on? How
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 10: do you make them feel a part of the process?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 10: You have to center them and make it about them.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 10: And that's what we're doing on The Doors. We're talking
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 10: about what issue one will mean for all of Ohioans
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 10: and what it means for them to show up and
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 10: vote this August.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: I love that. Make the voter the hero. Give them
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: some agency. Make them feel like they've accomplished something. Last
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: question for you. So no matter what happens, your team
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: is going to be fighting for abortion rights and access
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: in November. How can listeners get involved and help out?
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 10: So what listeners can do is visit innovationohio.org and chip in.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 10: We also launched the Ohio Voter Guide. You can share
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 10: that link, ohiovoterguide.org, to every single Ohioan you know and
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 10: make sure that they have the information they need to
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 10: make an educated and informed decision to hopefully vote no
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 10: on August 8th. But we will also use Ohio Voter
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 10: Guide again in November and the following election after that.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 10: So share that link out. It helps people access all
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 10: the information they need in terms of registering to vote.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 10: finding their polling location and finding out who and what
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 10: is on their ballot. And that's OhioVoterGuide.org.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 7: Excellent.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: Well, Desiree Timms, thank you for the work you're doing.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: Thanks for doing the show. And, you know, I think
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: we're going to win. I feel good about this one.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 10: I feel good too. I'm fired up.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: This is like, I don't think anyone wants the rules
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: to be changed. I don't think everyone wants the government
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: making it harder for citizens to have their voices heard.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: So fingers crossed here. But thank you again.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go, Elijah's back with the things
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: he holds nearest and dearest in life, his takes. How's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: it going, Elijah?
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 11: It's going great, John. Great to be with you again,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 11: doing the take appreciators. Let's just jump right into it
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 11: because we're on a tight schedule. I'm going to share
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 11: some takes with you all. The producers have seen all
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 11: of them. John, John, and Tommy have not. They'll rate
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 11: them on a scale of one to four politicos with
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 11: four being the worst. Thanks to our subscribers who sent
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 11: these takes in today. You can sign up for Friends
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 11: of the Pod, our subscription service at crooked.com slash friends.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: You guys ready? Ready?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 9: All right.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 11: Let's start with a piece from the Washington Post. It's
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 11: by Henry Olson and it's titled Republicans Save Democracy in 2020.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 11: This piece makes the argument that it is Republicans like
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 11: Mike Pence, Brad Raffensperger, and some of Trump appointed judges
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 11: who made all the difference when Trump tried to overturn
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 11: the 2020 election. Here's a quote. If you love our democracy,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 11: thank Republicans for the fact that we still have it.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: That's very triggering. Um, Where's the lie?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Where's the fucking lie? Rusty Bowers, which is one example.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Look, I will definitely thank a few individual Republicans for
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: not joining the conspiracy that Trump is now being tried for.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Congrats, you didn't do a coup.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you for not.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: No, that was very good of them. But the Republican
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Party as a whole is, of course, why we're in
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: this mess, because it is controlled by Donald Trump and
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: his support.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Well that's that's that's obviously an issue as well.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Look I think the headline is the most triggering thing
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: so I feel like that gets I'll give that a
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: three how.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Many how many what are the numbers again one through.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: Four it's just one through four it's been a while.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: That's a that's a one and a half for me.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: Okay I'll give it a three okay I'm sorry. It's
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: been a while.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 11: We never played Take Appreciators anymore. What happened?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Sorry, man. You okay?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about it? Do you want
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: to have a side meeting about this?
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Elijah with his head down, walking a little radio flyer.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 11: Babe, why don't we play Take Appreciators anymore? Let's move
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 11: on to a post from Truth Social. From the thrice
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 11: indicted former President Donald Trump. You referenced it at the
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 11: top of the show. Quote, The shocking and totally unexpected
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 11: loss from the U.S. women's national team to Sweden is
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 11: fully emblematic of what's happening to our once great nation
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 11: under crooked Joe Biden. Many of our players were openly
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 11: hostile to America. No other country behaves in such a
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 11: manner or even close. Woke equals failure. Nice shot, Megan.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 11: The USA is going to hell, three exclamation points.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Maga.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. There were so many people on the internet
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: yesterday saying, rooting against the United States because they don't
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: like the political views of some of the players on
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: one of the teams. What is wrong with you? You know,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: it's broken brain people on the planet.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Sick stuff. Sick stuff. Also, what a just.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Nice shot, Megan. The USA is going to hell is
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: quite a sentence. Because we lost to Sweden? From the
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: man who wants to lead our nation.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: Full playbook.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: Full playbook. Full playbook.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: Ugh.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I really do hate the rooting against our, it really
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: gets me. It really gets me.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: I was trying to think to myself, like, was there
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: a time when the U.S. team won something and you
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: really disliked a player for being some kind of like
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: right wing nutter? I can't think of an example on
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: the other side. I really can't.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Remember when there was that baseball player who then was
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: on Survivor who said that he didn't want to ride
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: on the 7 train because of some homophobic and racist things?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: John Rocker. Yeah. Did he ever do the Olympics?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 7: I don't.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: He might have. That's the only person I could think of.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: That was probably an era when pros weren't allowed on
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: the Olympic team.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, Curt Schilling's a big Trumper, but I still
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: love the 2004 Olympics.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I will always appreciate what he did for me.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Well, if you guys couldn't root for assholes, you'd never
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: be able.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: To watch sports.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 11: It's a compromise we all make.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Like America's team, the Patriots.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: No assholes on that team. It's right in the title.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: You're welcome.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 11: All right, so we're at a full playbook for that truth?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: Sure are. Yeah.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 11: All right, let's end with something that we don't normally do,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 11: a letter to the editor. There are lots of takes
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 11: out there that say Biden should pardon Donald Trump, but
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 11: here's something from Gary to the Salt Lake Tribune. And
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 11: I have to say, I think Gary is cooking.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: Fucking deep, deep reach.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: Letter to the editor. Hey, Gary.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: You know what we call those today?
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: They're called the X's. Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Get ready to have your world rock, Gary, because Pod
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: Save America is coming.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Who the fuck is writing a letter to the editor anymore?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Just go, you fucking post something.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 11: I love what Gary is cooking up here as an
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 11: intellectual exercise. It's titled, For Strategic Reasons, Biden Should Get
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 11: Into the Self-Pardon Game.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 10: Here's a quote.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 11: I don't think Biden has committed any crimes, but doing
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 11: a pardon would test whether it's constitutional. And if it is,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 11: it would protect him from retribution by a potential President
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 11: Trump in 2024. This would put Biden's opponents in a
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 11: position that if they complain or try to block the pardon,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 11: it would apply to Trump as well. Is Gary cooking?
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm for it.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: I'm for it.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: He should definitely self-pardon.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: Hey, Gary, I like what you're cooking. I got a
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: bowl right here. Serve it.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 8: I'm in.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: After the election.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: I think it should be pardons for him, pardons for
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton. Maybe us?
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I'd sleep better.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: A little prophylactic pardoning going on?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: Pardoning an Ambien? I'd sleep like a fucking baby. That's
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: what I've been missing.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden needs to issue an executive order that says
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: Gary can't read political news for at least two years.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: I think that is, you're thinking your D's in your
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: chest are too high. Too many D's in your chest. D's? 4D, 3D,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: 5D chest.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 10: Oh, oh, oh, chest.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: I thought you said chest. I was like, what?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: D's on his chest? What the fuck?
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: I don't even know. What have you been up to? Nothing.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: I've been up to nothing.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Where was Gary's letter printed?
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: It was in Salt Lake.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: It was in Salt Lake.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're looking at the Salt... Wow. How did you
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: find that?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. But that tells me something about Gary.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 6: Gary.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: I think the subs sent it to him.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Gary... Not the doms.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 9: Gary.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: Fuck.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Gary is in fucking Salt Lake with a candle.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: In a red state.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: Just.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: Just out there fighting for Joe Biden every goddamn day.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Thinking ahead.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: But he's a Romney Biden voter.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: Gary's being slandered.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 11: Sorry, Gary. They try to overthrow the government. I don't
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 11: think a little rhetorical, you know, flair is going to
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 11: convince them otherwise.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: It's a constitutional argument.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 11: Politico rating for Gary?
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 7: One.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: I think Gary did a great job. Yeah, maybe zero. Zero.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Gary's great.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Get a subject, Gary.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: You know what? No bad ideas in a brainstorm, Gary.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: He's just trying to save democracy.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 11: Fun idea, Gary.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Turns out it was Gary Busey. It's interesting to picture that.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: You didn't picture Gary Busey.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Did not see that coming. Elijah Cohn, thanks for a
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: great take, appreciators. We'll try to have you on more frequently.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks also to Desiree Timms for joining us. I hope
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: everyone in Ohio voted today. It's the day of the election, so...
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: If you're listening early, get out there. Get out there.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe if it's first thing Tuesday morning, get out there.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: If you're still online, stay online.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Stay online. That's right. And otherwise, we'll talk to you
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: on Thursday. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Gardner Bernstein and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer,
• 1:15:12
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• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford,
• 1:15:20
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• 1:15:23
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  Speaker 1: Pod Save America. I want to tell you about a
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: new podcast you might enjoy. It's called Search Engine. Each episode,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: reporter PJ Vogt tries to answer every question he has
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: about the world. No question too big, no question too small.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Questions like, why are drug dealers putting fentanyl in everything,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: even though it's killing their customers?
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: I was wondering that too.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Same. Or, is my local sushi restaurant a part of
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: an international scam? Yikes, I hope not.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: Now I'm wondering that.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Did anyone ever figure out where Sam Bankman Freed hid
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: all that money?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: Not in his wardrobe.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Not in his wardrobe.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Also, how sad are the monkeys at the zoo?
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: How sad are the monkeys at the zoo?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: It depends on the zoo. If you find this world bewildering,
• 1:16:12
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• 1:16:16
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• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Search Engine with PJ Vogt and Odyssey Podcast on the
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.