Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / NBA Draft with Matt Moore + Summer Movie Series with Ben Menkiewicz

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NBA Draft with Matt Moore + Summer Movie Series with Ben Menkiewicz · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast from the Action Network.
0:17
Speaker 1: I am Chad Millman along with my host co host
0:23
Speaker 1: black Jack Fletcher. Hey buddy, how are you doing? Huge
0:29
Speaker 1: huge shorter day? So um, one of my favorite people
0:33
Speaker 1: on Twitter is uh Ben mink Witz at ben MANK
0:38
Speaker 1: seventy seven. He's the host of Turner Classic Movies. He uh,
0:43
Speaker 1: he knows a lot about sports. He knows a lot
0:44
Speaker 1: about betting. Um comes from a family of Hollywood royalty
0:47
Speaker 1: that also knows a lot about betting, and so I
0:51
Speaker 1: had asked him to come on the pod to talk
0:53
Speaker 1: about like a summer betting movie for our summer betting
0:56
Speaker 1: movie series that I'm announcing right now. So the first
1:00
Speaker 1: one is Ony Mahoney and he's gonna come on later
1:02
Speaker 1: in the show and talk about it. But before that,
1:06
Speaker 1: we've got mat more talking NBA because is there anything
1:11
Speaker 1: going on in the NBA? Uh? Not much right, finals
1:14
Speaker 1: are over, so just get ready for next October. Just
1:17
Speaker 1: really two days. They gave me two days, man, two days.
1:21
Speaker 1: Here's Matt Moore from the senior writer for the NBA. So, Maddie,
1:26
Speaker 1: two days. So the Lakers pull the trigger on the
1:28
Speaker 1: trade for Anthony Davis giving up basically their entire roster
1:32
Speaker 1: and covered full of draft picks. I mean, is this
1:36
Speaker 1: as good a deal as New Orleans could have gotten
1:38
Speaker 1: done for this? I mean it's hard to imagine they
1:40
Speaker 1: do better. Yeah, I think once Jason Tatum was off
1:43
Speaker 1: the board, this is the best way we're gonna get.
1:45
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see how this worked out if
1:49
Speaker 1: you go back to February and when the first trade
1:51
Speaker 1: request kind of came out publicly from Rich Paul the
1:55
Speaker 1: same day, Chris Haynes, who has reported on all sorts
1:59
Speaker 1: of man or the things with Clutched Sports, also reported
2:02
Speaker 1: that Anthony Davis was not interested in going to Boston
2:05
Speaker 1: because Kyrie Irving may not be returning, and so like
2:09
Speaker 1: there's this feedback loop of Kyrie doesn't want to come back,
2:12
Speaker 1: so they can't go. So maybe a D doesn't want
2:14
Speaker 1: to go there, and so they can't go get a
2:16
Speaker 1: D because they may not have Kyrie, and there's this
2:19
Speaker 1: negative feedback loop. So once Boston was out, you were
2:22
Speaker 1: trying to get a one year rental offer from all
2:25
Speaker 1: of these other teams to take a shot like the Raptors,
2:27
Speaker 1: but no team could really afford to give up what
2:30
Speaker 1: Toronto have, which was an all star um in bar
2:33
Speaker 1: de Rosen and a young prospect. They didn't have the
2:36
Speaker 1: kind of assets that they needed in order to get
2:38
Speaker 1: that done. So the Lakers really were the last remaining
2:40
Speaker 1: kind of team, and the Lakers were so desperate that
2:43
Speaker 1: they gave up control over the next the jillion years
2:46
Speaker 1: of draft control, including really favorable protections for the Pelicans,
2:50
Speaker 1: like one of the pixes, it has to be top eight,
2:54
Speaker 1: otherwise it defers to the next year unprotected. Like all
2:57
Speaker 1: the protections are in the Pelicans favor. Um, they came
2:59
Speaker 1: out well in this. Especially if you're shorting the Lakers stock,
3:04
Speaker 1: if you're saying, especially after Lebron leaves, they're not going
3:08
Speaker 1: to be a contender, you're setting yourself up for a
3:10
Speaker 1: potential windfall between the years of two thousand and twenty
3:14
Speaker 1: three and two thousand and twenty six. Um. And that's
3:17
Speaker 1: right when Zion Williamson is gonna be coming up on
3:20
Speaker 1: you know, his prime. So I think, all in all
3:23
Speaker 1: of an awesome deal for the Pelicans. All right, So
3:25
Speaker 1: you wrote a story, a few stories, but in the
3:29
Speaker 1: aftermath of the trade, analyzing the Pelicans prospects, and writing
3:34
Speaker 1: about why you thought this was was a pretty good
3:37
Speaker 1: deal for them, despite Ingram's failings, despite despite a Lonzo
3:41
Speaker 1: Balls failings. Give us your take on season win totals
3:46
Speaker 1: for the Pelicans as they stand. I'll be over a lot.
3:50
Speaker 1: It's in the low thirties. I think I looked at
3:54
Speaker 1: if you go back in the number one pick um,
3:56
Speaker 1: since we've got data, and it goes back until really
4:00
Speaker 1: you're looking at at an eight and five, which isn't awesome,
4:03
Speaker 1: but a good enough record with a lot of weird
4:06
Speaker 1: situations in there. Obviously you got like Anthony Bennett's and
4:09
Speaker 1: the Calves traded one of the picks of the Lebron deal, etcetera. UM,
4:12
Speaker 1: but you've got, especially when you look at the transcendent guys,
4:15
Speaker 1: the guys that are really transformative for their teams, the
4:18
Speaker 1: level of Ian Williamson is expected to be at the
4:21
Speaker 1: next level. UM. I think that gives you an indication,
4:24
Speaker 1: a better indication of koind of what this is going
4:26
Speaker 1: to be. And now those teams both went over Lebron
4:29
Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis's teams both went over in their first years.
4:32
Speaker 1: I think that's a good sign for Zion that you're
4:34
Speaker 1: looking at a team that's gonna have talent out the box.
4:37
Speaker 1: They've got Drew Holiday doing not moving through Holiday. Uh,
4:40
Speaker 1: They're they've got a good coach and Alvin Genter who
4:42
Speaker 1: they just signed an extension, so their stability there. They've
4:45
Speaker 1: got a world of options, Like they're currently shopping the
4:48
Speaker 1: number four pick, and there's a bunch of teams and
4:50
Speaker 1: conversations for that. Um so they're gonna have an opportunity
4:53
Speaker 1: to upgrade, either with a veteran or getting multiple assets.
4:56
Speaker 1: I think there's a good possibility that the Pelicans are
4:58
Speaker 1: gonna run kind of in the middle range. Um there.
5:02
Speaker 1: I'm also very high on taking these teams that are
5:05
Speaker 1: not the worst of the worst, but kind of not
5:07
Speaker 1: really good, not five hundred, because of the fact that
5:10
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see so much load management next
5:12
Speaker 1: season that a lot of the top teams are gonna
5:14
Speaker 1: get caught. So that's another reason why I'm really high
5:17
Speaker 1: on the Pelicans over right now, even though the numbers
5:20
Speaker 1: really early, considering we haven't hit free agency yet. God,
5:23
Speaker 1: that is fascinating to be projecting basically end of season
5:28
Speaker 1: and sort of middle of season wins based on something
5:32
Speaker 1: the Raptors did this year to make Kauai more effective
5:34
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, we
5:38
Speaker 1: just saw we saw Kevin Durant go down with the
5:40
Speaker 1: major and Urie saw Klaie Thompson, and we saw a
5:42
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that were just banged up and didn't
5:45
Speaker 1: really have the stamina, and he saw Kauai has come
5:48
Speaker 1: out of the playoffs as definably the best player in
5:50
Speaker 1: the league and he was on the load management program
5:54
Speaker 1: of sixty games. I just think that that's gonna have
5:56
Speaker 1: a ripple down effects where teams are gonna start looking
5:58
Speaker 1: at it and saying, can we get If you look
6:02
Speaker 1: at even this year standings the Bucks, we're the top
6:06
Speaker 1: team and they only we're only scraping sixty wins. We're
6:09
Speaker 1: used to see it in several teams hit in the
6:10
Speaker 1: high fifties. We didn't see that as much this year.
6:13
Speaker 1: You're gonna see that. You think even more next year
6:14
Speaker 1: where teams are gonna say, look, we can get by
6:17
Speaker 1: at fifty wins. We can get We're gonna be in
6:19
Speaker 1: conversations for a four seed. If we get the two,
6:24
Speaker 1: we will be within range, and so can we swop
6:27
Speaker 1: off enough games in the interim to be able to
6:30
Speaker 1: get there and get these guys and rest. And I
6:32
Speaker 1: think that's going to sacrifice a lot of those those
6:34
Speaker 1: kind of wins. We're gonna see the left panking. So
6:36
Speaker 1: I think that the top teams are gonna be time
6:38
Speaker 1: dragged down. I think the lower tier teams are going
6:41
Speaker 1: to kind of be pulled up a little bit by
6:42
Speaker 1: the availability of teams that aren't playing their stars. So, Maddie,
6:46
Speaker 1: we've got the draft on Thursday. We've already heard a
6:49
Speaker 1: bunch of rumors out today that maybe the Pelicans are
6:52
Speaker 1: trying to trade up to the two spot to take
6:54
Speaker 1: r J. Barrett, that the Hawks are trying to move
6:57
Speaker 1: up into the three spot and give away eight and
6:59
Speaker 1: ten to the Nicks. What's the next domino to fall here?
7:04
Speaker 1: I think that the Pills are are likely to make
7:07
Speaker 1: a place. I think know and Griffin, I think that
7:09
Speaker 1: he's gonna target trying to get multiple return assets on
7:13
Speaker 1: the four. I think he's more likely to take a
7:15
Speaker 1: team um that's in conversations. Kevin O'Connor from the Ringing
7:18
Speaker 1: Report that the Pacers are in conversations with him and
7:21
Speaker 1: they've got a lot of young talent that they can't
7:22
Speaker 1: really make all fit and they might be looking for
7:25
Speaker 1: a major upgrade into that fourth spot uh take to
7:28
Speaker 1: take Darlins, So that makes a lot of sense for
7:30
Speaker 1: both sides. He's gonna look and try and get a
7:33
Speaker 1: value player in terms of a rotation guy and maybe
7:36
Speaker 1: a move back. The Hawks, I think are there as well.
7:39
Speaker 1: I also just I gotta tell you if there's a
7:42
Speaker 1: prop out there for trade, and we'll have that probably
7:44
Speaker 1: by Thursday, for a number of trades in the first round.
7:47
Speaker 1: Over under, I'm gonna hit the over pretty hard because
7:51
Speaker 1: every team I've talked to has said, yeah, no, like
7:54
Speaker 1: we're we're looking up, we're looking down, and it's more
7:57
Speaker 1: so than most years. Most years they're like, yeah, I mean,
7:59
Speaker 1: we're sploring on options what we do, Like you're in
8:01
Speaker 1: conversations and you're trying to do it, but so many
8:03
Speaker 1: teams are trying to move in. So many teams are
8:06
Speaker 1: trying to move out. The Thunder are trying to clear salaries,
8:09
Speaker 1: so they're offering up their pick. The Nuggets are trying
8:12
Speaker 1: to get in to try and acquire a pick to
8:15
Speaker 1: maybe make a move for a rotation guy to trade
8:17
Speaker 1: him back. Down again. There's just I think there's gonna
8:19
Speaker 1: be a lot of movement on Draft night within this draft,
8:23
Speaker 1: because this draft isn't good enough to where everybody's like, no, no,
8:25
Speaker 1: I gotta keep my spot. The biggest story we've had
8:30
Speaker 1: in the past week is about the Lakers odds to
8:36
Speaker 1: win the NBA title, which had been shrinking as sort
8:41
Speaker 1: of the rumors around Anthony Davis swirled and then it
8:45
Speaker 1: went chaotic when um, when he actually was traded. Ravel
8:50
Speaker 1: had a great story about Darren. Ravel had a great
8:53
Speaker 1: story about the better who put ten grand down on
8:56
Speaker 1: the Lakers to win the title. Uh, seven minutes for
9:00
Speaker 1: the trade happened, and the best quote in the story
9:03
Speaker 1: is it was clearly done with knowledge, which came from
9:08
Speaker 1: the bookmaker, you know, who was indicating, yeah, this is
9:11
Speaker 1: a better who usually knows things and made this bad
9:13
Speaker 1: twenty seven minutes before the trade happened, before anybody else
9:16
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. What do you make of that?
9:18
Speaker 1: What do you make the Lakers and sort of the
9:21
Speaker 1: influence of rumor and then the the appearance of fact
9:27
Speaker 1: that moved these odds so aggressively. We've seen this before.
9:31
Speaker 1: The raptors started moving last year. UM, their their odds
9:35
Speaker 1: started moving dramatically right before the Kawhi Leonard trade. UM
9:38
Speaker 1: we saw moved beforehand on when they were close to
9:41
Speaker 1: a deal of Phoenix and that wound up not working out.
9:45
Speaker 1: So I think something to keep in mind is the
9:48
Speaker 1: media stuff that comes out is all with a purpose.
9:50
Speaker 1: I try and to remind everyone in this that every
9:52
Speaker 1: leak that you get in the media is done with
9:54
Speaker 1: a purpose. Somebody is saying I want this information out
9:57
Speaker 1: there for whatever reason. They may be exchanged for intel.
10:01
Speaker 1: That happens a lot, but for the most part, mostly
10:04
Speaker 1: information especially on trades and stuff like that, is done
10:06
Speaker 1: with a purpose to try and exert pressure, either from
10:08
Speaker 1: the agents or from the team or from the other
10:10
Speaker 1: team or whoever. UM. But that also means that this
10:14
Speaker 1: information is out there these teams. Some teams are iron clads.
10:18
Speaker 1: Some teams really are that quiet. UM the Spurs are
10:21
Speaker 1: an example of a team that's even though that one
10:23
Speaker 1: got out, I'm pretty sure that one got out from
10:24
Speaker 1: the other side or from the agency. UM the Thunder
10:28
Speaker 1: are pretty locked down. But most of these teams are
10:30
Speaker 1: pretty casual and the information will get out, and oftentimes
10:33
Speaker 1: minority ownership That's where I always wonder about these things
10:36
Speaker 1: is most of these teams don't have only one owner.
10:39
Speaker 1: It's minority ownership groups to own a large stake of
10:42
Speaker 1: these and that's a lot of people that aren't day
10:44
Speaker 1: to day that like being involved with an NBA team
10:47
Speaker 1: and like being able to talk about what they're involved in.
10:50
Speaker 1: And those of the areas where I think that the
10:52
Speaker 1: information probably gets out the betting market. I think, especially
10:55
Speaker 1: as there's so much more attention paid and these markets
10:59
Speaker 1: become volatile, I think we're going to see a lot
11:02
Speaker 1: more of this of the market telegraphing major moves in
11:05
Speaker 1: the NBA, more so than even what we're gonna hear
11:08
Speaker 1: from some reporters, because those reporters are being used tactically.
11:12
Speaker 1: You know, Maddie Chad mentioned the uh, the the odds
11:15
Speaker 1: of the Lakers winning the championship and how now they're
11:17
Speaker 1: the favorite. That just seems insane to me. I mean,
11:21
Speaker 1: I know they've added Anthony Davis and they've got Lebron
11:25
Speaker 1: and Kyle Kuzma, and that's about it. I mean, how
11:28
Speaker 1: are the Houston Rockets not the favorite here? I mean
11:30
Speaker 1: for the last two years, three years, Golden State has
11:34
Speaker 1: been the only impediment to them probably at least winning
11:38
Speaker 1: one of those championships. How are the Rockets with the
11:41
Speaker 1: team they have? Not the favorite here pretty preacher like,
11:45
Speaker 1: I'm with you, UM, I think it's weird to say
11:48
Speaker 1: that the guy that one MVP two years ago that's
11:50
Speaker 1: gonna be runner up this year, James harden Um. They're
11:53
Speaker 1: gonna return a core mostly intact. They're also a front
11:57
Speaker 1: office that has proven that they're going to be aggressive
11:59
Speaker 1: like they are. They're out there and talk with a
12:02
Speaker 1: lot of their guys, including Glint Capella and Eric Gordon,
12:05
Speaker 1: two valuable players on the market that they're willing to
12:08
Speaker 1: talk about making moves for. UM. Those are guys that
12:10
Speaker 1: can fetch upgrades and they've got stable coaching. Even though
12:14
Speaker 1: Mike D'Antoni situation is what his contract that makes you
12:16
Speaker 1: a little uneasy. I don't think he's going anywhere this year. UM.
12:20
Speaker 1: They match up with all of the perspective contenders in
12:25
Speaker 1: the West, like the Nuggets. If you look at them
12:27
Speaker 1: and say, well about Nuggets, the Nuggets can't be Houston
12:29
Speaker 1: in a matchup situation. They can't do and we saw
12:31
Speaker 1: this year it's all about matchups. Um Portland's another team
12:35
Speaker 1: can't do it. We'll see how the Lakers fill out
12:38
Speaker 1: their roster. But the point I made in the calum
12:40
Speaker 1: I had on their title odds was, even you're gonna
12:42
Speaker 1: bet l A you don't do it now, you're gonna
12:44
Speaker 1: get much better number when they start off eight and
12:46
Speaker 1: seven in November when they struggled, because it's a totally
12:49
Speaker 1: new team. But we got to see how this team
12:51
Speaker 1: fills out it's roster. I'm with you. I think Houston
12:54
Speaker 1: is you're gonna get money, like you're getting a great
12:56
Speaker 1: number on them, and they're only gonna go down. I
12:58
Speaker 1: think if we get close to the beginning of the season,
13:00
Speaker 1: I think that that Lakers number is going to go up,
13:02
Speaker 1: getting much better value, especially once we get in season.
13:05
Speaker 1: If you have faith in Lebron and Anthony Davis, wait
13:09
Speaker 1: and suffer through the kind of struggles early and that's
13:12
Speaker 1: when I think you're gonna get the best value. But
13:14
Speaker 1: that's what it makes future adds interesting. They're not reflective
13:17
Speaker 1: of anything in the court. They are only reflective of
13:21
Speaker 1: activity in the market. Yeah, yeah, and the Lakers that
13:26
Speaker 1: we've seen this consistently that the Lakers throw all of
13:29
Speaker 1: this askew because of you know, I think in part
13:32
Speaker 1: because of the proximity of Vegas to Los Angeles, uh
13:34
Speaker 1: and the number of residents that live there or split
13:36
Speaker 1: time there. But just in general, the Lakers are we
13:39
Speaker 1: see them consistently generating way more action and moving and
13:46
Speaker 1: getting odds way closer than they should. Um. I was
13:49
Speaker 1: up yesterday. They were the fifth most profitable team to
13:51
Speaker 1: bet against straight up last year, and that was after
13:53
Speaker 1: the book started just adjusting um to the fact that
13:56
Speaker 1: they were terrible. So they they've just consistently been a
13:59
Speaker 1: team that you can fade because of the Lakers effect
14:03
Speaker 1: of everyone believing way too much in them based on
14:05
Speaker 1: the brand. Maddie, what's the latest you're hearing about the
14:08
Speaker 1: big free agents out there? I mean we're hearing Kyrie, Irving, Brooklyn,
14:12
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, who the hell knows, um Kawhi Leonard you
14:16
Speaker 1: know up in the air. Well, what are you hearing
14:17
Speaker 1: about these guys? Kyrie has been around like that. The
14:21
Speaker 1: Brooklyn noise has been around for months and I didn't
14:23
Speaker 1: report it because I couldn't get enough nailed down on it,
14:25
Speaker 1: But like that was something that was circulating back in
14:28
Speaker 1: like March. In March, that was a conversation that was
14:31
Speaker 1: being had was, you know, his dad really likes Brooklyn
14:34
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of noise about Brooklyn. And I
14:35
Speaker 1: said that not to be like, oh I knew it
14:37
Speaker 1: the whole time, but just that he hasn't. If I'm
14:40
Speaker 1: hearing that kind of stuff, then it's it's so out
14:42
Speaker 1: there that everyone's kind of known. And the Boston Globe
14:45
Speaker 1: got it already, the Boston Herold rather, they've already got that.
14:49
Speaker 1: He's pretty much committed um to Brooklyn. Now, there's been
14:52
Speaker 1: some weird stuff with that over the last since the
14:54
Speaker 1: Anthony gave his trade. There was a movement toward maybe
14:58
Speaker 1: he's going to change his mind and go to the Lakers,
14:59
Speaker 1: but then that's moved backwards in the other direction and
15:02
Speaker 1: it continues to be a feeling that he's going to
15:03
Speaker 1: go there. Um, the Clippers. I checked in again everyone
15:07
Speaker 1: I've talked to you that has any sort of thoughts
15:09
Speaker 1: on Kauai. Um, they still feel like the Clippers are
15:12
Speaker 1: the ones that there's gonna be two meetings. There are
15:14
Speaker 1: gonna be a meeting with the Clippers and meeting with
15:16
Speaker 1: the Raptors. And those are the only two meetings that
15:18
Speaker 1: are gonna matter. Um, and there's uh. While there's been
15:21
Speaker 1: a growing sense that the Raptors that put themselves in
15:25
Speaker 1: good position, they're not the favorite, that it's really as
15:28
Speaker 1: a coin flip between l A and Toronto until those
15:32
Speaker 1: meetings go down. And then the big one I think
15:34
Speaker 1: this morning was, you know, Al Horford opted out, and
15:36
Speaker 1: while I think that he wants to return to Boston,
15:39
Speaker 1: I I just wonder what Boston's gonna do because they
15:41
Speaker 1: have so many different options that they can go in,
15:44
Speaker 1: but they're also facing a really bad situation having Loft
15:48
Speaker 1: out and Anthony Davis and losing Kyrie. There's no really,
15:51
Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions I've talked to you from
15:53
Speaker 1: people in the league about what's Aims gonna do. Is
15:55
Speaker 1: he gonna go all in or is he gonna maybe
15:58
Speaker 1: scale back a little bit and bill of the for
16:00
Speaker 1: a little a few years down the line. All Right,
16:02
Speaker 1: So my last question is based on all the speculation,
16:05
Speaker 1: based on the draft, based on what we know now.
16:09
Speaker 1: If I'm making a bet, a future's bet today, who
16:12
Speaker 1: am I making it on? Where's the value be great?
16:16
Speaker 1: You're getting great numbers on the Warriors to win the title.
16:19
Speaker 1: You're getting You're getting just incredible odds on a team
16:22
Speaker 1: that still is going to return. Kellie Thompson is going
16:26
Speaker 1: to be back by March. A. C L injuries just
16:28
Speaker 1: aren't what they used to be there no longer, these
16:30
Speaker 1: season altering injuries, they're just it's a long time recovery.
16:34
Speaker 1: It's a major surgery, but the science has gotten so
16:36
Speaker 1: good around it. He's going to be backed by by
16:39
Speaker 1: probably All Star around then, if not the beginning of April,
16:43
Speaker 1: and they will still be in position to make a
16:46
Speaker 1: run as long as they're in the playoffs. Are you
16:48
Speaker 1: gonna feel good? Especially? I think that Myers is going
16:51
Speaker 1: to go in and he's gonna just he's going to
16:53
Speaker 1: improve the bench knowing what they've got to do. You're
16:56
Speaker 1: still gonna have Steph Curry, You're still gonna have Draymond
16:59
Speaker 1: Green most likely. Um, You're still gonna have all these
17:02
Speaker 1: options even without k D. I know we just saw
17:04
Speaker 1: most of the Raptors, but think about how close they were,
17:07
Speaker 1: Like Danny Green lost the ball. If Steph makes that
17:11
Speaker 1: three were likely going to a Game seven, and who
17:14
Speaker 1: knows what happens, then that's how close they were with
17:16
Speaker 1: Katie playing a quarter of that entire series. So to me,
17:20
Speaker 1: with the number that you're getting at the Warriors at
17:22
Speaker 1: that ten at some places, I think that you're getting
17:24
Speaker 1: the best value on Golden State. I think it's gonna
17:29
Speaker 1: really freak havoc with the Warriors and Steph Curry and
17:32
Speaker 1: so it's gonna take them longer get the standing. It's
17:35
Speaker 1: not gonna be as happy San Francisco traffic. That's where
17:38
Speaker 1: you're going. It's gonna get him done. Okay, good analysis.
17:42
Speaker 1: All right, Man Moore, thank you, thanks for coming on
17:45
Speaker 1: the podcast. Next up, we're bringing on Ben mako WIT's
17:49
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a a gambling movie, A great
17:54
Speaker 1: gambling movie. Where was it? Dude? Spoiler? Dude stinks I'm
18:00
Speaker 1: setting it up. I finished it alright, as promised. I
18:07
Speaker 1: have been looking forward to this guest for a very
18:09
Speaker 1: long time, and then I finally had the courage to
18:11
Speaker 1: d m him on Twitter and say, hey, will you come?
18:14
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. Will you come on the podcast? Uh?
18:19
Speaker 1: Mr Ben Mankowitz, host of Turner Classic Movies. I should
18:23
Speaker 1: warn your your on with me and my co host
18:25
Speaker 1: black Jack Fletcher. Hey, ben, Hey, it's very possible. Go ahead.
18:29
Speaker 1: I'm I'm well, you're very low threshold for courage. Yes,
18:37
Speaker 1: you you wrote the best gambling book ever written. Well,
18:40
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Uh. And it's true. I also that
18:43
Speaker 1: that is a true statement. Uh. And as is the
18:46
Speaker 1: fact I have a low threshold for courage. Um. But
18:50
Speaker 1: of course you are the host of Turner Classic Movies.
18:52
Speaker 1: You are the face of Turner Classic Movies. Um. You
18:56
Speaker 1: have an incredible Twitter feed at ben MANK seventy seven.
18:59
Speaker 1: And you also know quite a bit, quite a bit
19:02
Speaker 1: about sports, quite a bit about sports betting. Uh. And
19:05
Speaker 1: so we decided you were going to come on and
19:08
Speaker 1: we were gonna have an informal summer movie sports betting series.
19:13
Speaker 1: And I asked you to come on and we could
19:15
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, play a little bit of what
19:17
Speaker 1: you do on your television network and um review like
19:24
Speaker 1: in an older movie. And so you suggested a movie
19:28
Speaker 1: Owning Mahoney as sort of one of the better sports
19:30
Speaker 1: betting movies. But before we get to that, and we're
19:32
Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. Before we get to that, UM,
19:35
Speaker 1: I do feel like you need to explain a little
19:37
Speaker 1: bit about your family history because you grew up literally
19:42
Speaker 1: almost at the intersection of Hollywood royalty and political royalty.
19:48
Speaker 1: Explained to Guy, I suppose that's true. I grew up
19:51
Speaker 1: in d C. I was sort of unaware of the
19:53
Speaker 1: Hollywood royalty part. I knew the family's history. I just
19:56
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was a how big a deal
19:59
Speaker 1: it was to people out here. But first I grew
20:01
Speaker 1: up in Washington, d C. My dad was a big
20:06
Speaker 1: deal inside the Democratic Party in Washington. He had been
20:09
Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy's press secretary. Before that, he'd been Latin American
20:12
Speaker 1: director at the Peace Corps. That's where he met the Senator.
20:16
Speaker 1: Went to work for him in the Senate office, then
20:18
Speaker 1: was the press secretary for his campaign. Then he was
20:21
Speaker 1: George McGovern's sort of political director, co campaign manager with
20:24
Speaker 1: Carry Hart in nineteen seventy two, ran for Congress himself
20:28
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six and lost or seventy four, No,
20:34
Speaker 1: nobody lost in seventy four seventy six and uh And
20:37
Speaker 1: then was president of National Public Radio for five or
20:40
Speaker 1: six years, and his father, Herman Mankel, wrote the screenplay
20:44
Speaker 1: for for Citizen Kane, and his younger brother Joe Mancha,
20:49
Speaker 1: was my father's uncle, my great uncle, four oscars in
20:51
Speaker 1: two years for a Letter to Three Wives and all
20:54
Speaker 1: about Eve nineteen and nineteen fifty and you know, Cleopatra
21:00
Speaker 1: no way out a number of really one of the
21:03
Speaker 1: great sort of writer directors of the of the nineteen fifties,
21:06
Speaker 1: and had been a producer in Hollywood before famously introduced
21:09
Speaker 1: Spencer Tracy to Katherine Heppard, uh, laying the groundwork for
21:13
Speaker 1: all their films together and there and their and their
21:16
Speaker 1: lifelong romance. But my father, who could have been a
21:19
Speaker 1: great screenwriter, he he didn't think that was a serious
21:22
Speaker 1: way to make a living. Neither did his father. My
21:24
Speaker 1: grandfather was sort of always ashamed of the living he made.
21:26
Speaker 1: So my my dad sort of uh went in a
21:30
Speaker 1: different direction. Was for some time a entertainment lawyer in
21:34
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, but really represented Steve McQueen, James Mason, Jay
21:37
Speaker 1: Silverheel's Panto used to come to the house, my brother
21:40
Speaker 1: tells me in costume. Um, I was just you know
21:44
Speaker 1: how for my brother, like eight years old, seven years old,
21:47
Speaker 1: Kanto knocks on the door. It's pretty great, probably younger
21:51
Speaker 1: than that. And then uh, but then I got serious.
21:54
Speaker 1: You know though, when when when John Kennedy was elected,
21:56
Speaker 1: it seemed like this was a new generation being called
21:59
Speaker 1: to serve us. And uh, that's how my dad got
22:02
Speaker 1: involved in the Peace Corps and sort of from their
22:04
Speaker 1: politics was his life. So that's amazing. And I don't
22:10
Speaker 1: know how anybody could ever come after you on Twitter
22:13
Speaker 1: about anything regarding your opinion on old time movies given
22:18
Speaker 1: the credibility you're bringing to the conversation so well, and everybody,
22:22
Speaker 1: everybody's gotten everybody's got an opinion. And then many times
22:24
Speaker 1: they I mean I love those arguments. Um, so yeah,
22:27
Speaker 1: I mean believe me. And you know, it's look movies,
22:29
Speaker 1: and there are people who know a great deal more
22:32
Speaker 1: than I do. Um, you know they just uh that's uh.
22:37
Speaker 1: When you know people care about this stuff, they get
22:39
Speaker 1: invested in it. Um. And you know, I I love
22:41
Speaker 1: knowing a lot about it. But I love being a
22:43
Speaker 1: broadcaster too, So that's sort of my that's the joy
22:45
Speaker 1: of this job. You know what. Then I'm gonna bring
22:47
Speaker 1: one of those arguments right into your kitchen right now.
22:49
Speaker 1: Tell me how you think about this. But Citizen Kane
22:52
Speaker 1: a little overrated, doesn't quite hold up. Okay, Well, two things. One,
22:57
Speaker 1: I mean it can't be underrated. I mean, first, it's
23:00
Speaker 1: just on on logic a loan. When people consider it
23:03
Speaker 1: the best movie ever, nobody's gonna be like, I think
23:04
Speaker 1: it's a tad underrated. No, I think I think it's overrated.
23:07
Speaker 1: I think I don't know, I don't know the best
23:12
Speaker 1: movie ever overrated. So and here's an argument that I
23:19
Speaker 1: hate that you just made. But I I many people
23:22
Speaker 1: make it. Um. First of all, it does hold up.
23:25
Speaker 1: That's an insane thing to say. But the mere argument
23:27
Speaker 1: of whether it holds up the mirror like, it wasn't
23:30
Speaker 1: made to hold up right. It was made to make
23:33
Speaker 1: a point then. And by the way, if you pay
23:36
Speaker 1: attention to politics in this country, what is it fifty
23:38
Speaker 1: nine and nineteen seventy eight years later, I'd say it was.
23:42
Speaker 1: You know, there's some presciency. It is early reminiscent of
23:45
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I will say there were several moments I
23:47
Speaker 1: watched it not that long ago. It um. I think
23:50
Speaker 1: it's I think it's brilliant. I think there are a
23:52
Speaker 1: number of other brilliant movies. Is not my favorite movie ever,
23:55
Speaker 1: But I would certainly tell people who wanted to sort
23:58
Speaker 1: of to start from nowhere and grab an understanding of
24:01
Speaker 1: of of classic Hollywood is the important five or so
24:04
Speaker 1: five six seven films in classic Hollywood. I would definitely
24:07
Speaker 1: include Citizen Kane is one of the movies they they
24:10
Speaker 1: ought to watch. So how do you get into sports
24:13
Speaker 1: and sports betting? Why is that a part of your life?
24:15
Speaker 1: So Herman gambles a lot. He played poker with Bogart
24:20
Speaker 1: and they drank and they gambled and and and that group,
24:23
Speaker 1: not just Bogart, but they and uh so he'd always
24:28
Speaker 1: gambled in brag had going to the track. And and
24:31
Speaker 1: my uncle Don, my father's older brother, who wrote a
24:34
Speaker 1: great episode of Star Trek called The Trial, and uh
24:37
Speaker 1: wrote the pilot for Perry Mason and was Oscar nominated
24:40
Speaker 1: for a Susan Hayward film screenplay cal I Want to Live.
24:43
Speaker 1: But mostly what Don was a gambler. He was also
24:46
Speaker 1: president of the Writer's Guild. But again mostly what Don
24:49
Speaker 1: was very serious gambler. He played in that I get weekly,
24:52
Speaker 1: I don't know, bi weekly, uh Hollywood poker game that
24:56
Speaker 1: Gabe Kaplan played in. So that was oh yeah, yeah,
24:58
Speaker 1: yeah yeah regularly. So that he was Don was in
25:02
Speaker 1: a part of the fabric of that game and it
25:05
Speaker 1: cost him a great deal of money over the years.
25:08
Speaker 1: But on Sunday mornings when I was a boy growing
25:11
Speaker 1: up in d C so like cut say seventy seventy
25:15
Speaker 1: seventy seven, Don would call on Sunday mornings, or my
25:19
Speaker 1: dad would call him and they would go over the games,
25:22
Speaker 1: so the football games to pick during the fall, and
25:26
Speaker 1: Dad would pick three or four games that Don would
25:29
Speaker 1: bet on with his bookie out in l A. And
25:33
Speaker 1: what I knew was my dad put twenty two dollars
25:35
Speaker 1: on each game that he liked. Right if he felt crazy,
25:38
Speaker 1: he might bet forty four dollars on one game, but
25:41
Speaker 1: he'd go over with Don and donal would included in
25:43
Speaker 1: his best Don it turns out was betting, you know,
25:46
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. But I would go to the other
25:48
Speaker 1: phone and I would listen at age seven, eight nine,
25:51
Speaker 1: and my dad, not sneaking around, my dad knew I
25:54
Speaker 1: was listening, and then we talked about it. So I
25:55
Speaker 1: at a very early age I understood, you know that
25:58
Speaker 1: if the Eagles for three and a half point favorites
26:02
Speaker 1: but they won by three, that that this was not
26:04
Speaker 1: something to celebrate. But for Dad, it was always fun
26:07
Speaker 1: and he you know, he didn't think anything of risking
26:11
Speaker 1: twenty dollars and sharing that with his son. I think
26:13
Speaker 1: in later years he came to understand that maybe he
26:16
Speaker 1: had unleashed something. Yeah, it's funny, I have this. Uh.
26:21
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with my kids all the time.
26:23
Speaker 1: They know all about sports betting and they know that
26:25
Speaker 1: I do it, and they know the other day that
26:27
Speaker 1: I was watching Gary Woodland and I was winning quite
26:30
Speaker 1: a bit of money on Gary Woodland because I bet
26:32
Speaker 1: him at seventy one before the tournament began, and um,
26:36
Speaker 1: you know, and they know what it means to win
26:38
Speaker 1: by seven when the spread a seven and a half,
26:40
Speaker 1: and they now know how to ask like do who
26:43
Speaker 1: do you want to win? And by how much? Or
26:46
Speaker 1: who you want to lose and by how few? And um,
26:49
Speaker 1: you know. It's like last summer when it was the
26:51
Speaker 1: World Cup in France one or uh, I was like, wow,
26:55
Speaker 1: look at France advance and my kid and I like
26:57
Speaker 1: made a fifty dollar bet on it, and I'd like
26:59
Speaker 1: to watch the game because yeah, we just won fifty bucks.
27:02
Speaker 1: Like he wasn't even thinking about like the excitement of
27:04
Speaker 1: the game anymore. Now he was only thinking about the money.
27:09
Speaker 1: It is a great thing to explain to your six
27:10
Speaker 1: year old daughter and five year old daughter and four
27:12
Speaker 1: year old daughter, not that I have three, but I'm
27:13
Speaker 1: just her progression. And so she'll say, as I'm watching
27:16
Speaker 1: a baseball game now, but you know, months ago watching basketball,
27:19
Speaker 1: and she'll say, who are you rooting for? And I'll say,
27:23
Speaker 1: you know, usually team and white, a team in blue.
27:25
Speaker 1: But you know, now she's gotten who we're rooting for.
27:28
Speaker 1: I go defense, right, what he means nobody can score
27:34
Speaker 1: the two mornings, Kenny, we cannot have another run. It's
27:38
Speaker 1: amazing to me there have been no great sports betting
27:42
Speaker 1: movies like this. This was part of the problem we
27:45
Speaker 1: land on our dilemma with Owning the Honey. And I
27:49
Speaker 1: must confess that when we talk my memory because the
27:51
Speaker 1: line that stands out in the movie, the line that
27:53
Speaker 1: best represents that movie to me, is a sports betting line.
27:57
Speaker 1: But I thought in my head there was much more
28:00
Speaker 1: sports gambling and owning money. Then as I rewatched it
28:03
Speaker 1: then that it turns out there was right. So we
28:05
Speaker 1: should set the scene a little bit like Owning Mahoney
28:07
Speaker 1: is a movie that I think came out probably early
28:10
Speaker 1: two thousand's starting to starting Philip Seymour Hoffman. And it
28:15
Speaker 1: is about a Toronto banker who has a serious gambling
28:23
Speaker 1: habit and uh, he is a big sports better but
28:27
Speaker 1: he goes on sort of this month long gambling bender
28:32
Speaker 1: between Atlantic City and Las Vegas and um and it's
28:39
Speaker 1: sort of is about sort of his journey and what
28:41
Speaker 1: happens and how it ends up. And I don't want
28:43
Speaker 1: to sort of reveal everything before we get to the
28:45
Speaker 1: conversations embezzling the money. Well, yes, he's embezzling the money. Um.
28:51
Speaker 1: So why why does everyone talk about this movie? Well,
28:57
Speaker 1: I think it's one of Philip Symour Hoffman's greatest performer
29:00
Speaker 1: is And that is I realized what I'm saying when
29:04
Speaker 1: I say that, because there really isn't a bad one. Um.
29:07
Speaker 1: And I find that this one, which is super focused
29:11
Speaker 1: on him, right, it really has less to do with
29:15
Speaker 1: the gambling. In fact, we don't even see the cards
29:17
Speaker 1: very often, right, we don't see the results of the
29:20
Speaker 1: games except one. In fact, I watched three movies sort
29:23
Speaker 1: of to prep for this because I got excited, so
29:25
Speaker 1: I rewatched The Gambler and I also watched a movie
29:28
Speaker 1: that even the title doesn't make any sense. Lay the
29:31
Speaker 1: favorite um also based on based on a book, also
29:36
Speaker 1: based on a book, right, although super loosely um. So Uh,
29:41
Speaker 1: there's just there's very little gambling action, and there is
29:45
Speaker 1: this intense focus on addiction. I mean, what Owning Mahoney
29:49
Speaker 1: really is is an addiction movie more than anything else.
29:53
Speaker 1: And I think if you look at it as an
29:55
Speaker 1: addiction movie, then I think you can recognize one of
29:58
Speaker 1: the great addiction movies because he is Uh. Roger Ebert
30:01
Speaker 1: points out in his review, which I did not pick
30:03
Speaker 1: up on but was clear as soon as I read
30:05
Speaker 1: it afterwards, that you know, often never even you know,
30:09
Speaker 1: he didn't even look at the camera. It's like he's soup.
30:12
Speaker 1: He you know, there's a degree. He has a degree.
30:14
Speaker 1: He's carrying this shame sort of with him, and he's
30:18
Speaker 1: chasing winnings so that he can lose UM. And he's
30:22
Speaker 1: again embezzling so he has money to lose UM. And
30:26
Speaker 1: I just really fully related to fully related to to
30:32
Speaker 1: to Hoffman's plight and his desperation and his narrow mindedness,
30:37
Speaker 1: to the way he ignores his girlfriend fiance when she's
30:43
Speaker 1: sort of comes to the table, and he can't even
30:45
Speaker 1: he can't even look up she getting dragged away back
30:47
Speaker 1: from security and he won't even look at her because
30:51
Speaker 1: he's at the crafts table and he's on a run.
30:54
Speaker 1: So that I think it's why it's great. Um As
30:58
Speaker 1: for the sports in it, don't make it. They're not
31:01
Speaker 1: even really in it, even though there's that one great,
31:04
Speaker 1: great line where he's so frantic he's got to go
31:07
Speaker 1: to a meeting and he says, just give me all
31:11
Speaker 1: the home teams in the National League and all the
31:14
Speaker 1: away teams in the American League for a thousand dollars each,
31:17
Speaker 1: and he hangs up the phone. I did love that.
31:19
Speaker 1: I love that. And then like he tried to do
31:21
Speaker 1: it again with horse racing and baseball and the bookmakers like, no,
31:24
Speaker 1: I'm not taking his money. This is disrespectful to my business, right,
31:27
Speaker 1: I love that. I don't do that. What do you
31:29
Speaker 1: mean all the home teams, all the ways exactly, this
31:31
Speaker 1: is a serious thing. And so I liked that there
31:33
Speaker 1: was in this humanity for the bookmaker, both in owning
31:36
Speaker 1: Mahoney and and and pauls Orvino in the Gambler, they
31:39
Speaker 1: both sort of you know, uh, like you know, you
31:44
Speaker 1: don't imagine a bookmaker saying, hey, man, take a deep breath,
31:46
Speaker 1: you're sure you want to do this? Yeah, that would
31:49
Speaker 1: have been a better movie to go with The Gambler. Well, well,
31:52
Speaker 1: I mean I think that. I think they're both great,
31:54
Speaker 1: but the Gambler, I'm not. I didn't mean to knock
31:56
Speaker 1: the Gambler. By the way, let's be clear, the original
32:00
Speaker 1: the original, the original, honestly the original. Like when I
32:03
Speaker 1: was writing the Odds, um uh, we watched so many
32:08
Speaker 1: The main character, Alan Boston is such a huge movie
32:12
Speaker 1: buff in a seventies movie buff that we watched like
32:17
Speaker 1: three or four movies that that he felt defined sort
32:22
Speaker 1: of what it was like to live his life. The
32:25
Speaker 1: Gambler was one of them. Um, what was that one
32:28
Speaker 1: with Elliot Goold? California? California another really good one. Yeah,
32:34
Speaker 1: he loved California Sweet. And then for some reason, like
32:36
Speaker 1: we watched Gene Hackman in the movie where he's sort
32:39
Speaker 1: of always using the listening devices. What was that conversation?
32:43
Speaker 1: Another one? Right, that's the movie Francis Ford Coppola made
32:46
Speaker 1: in between the Godfather and The Godfather Part two. It's
32:49
Speaker 1: the greatest sandwich movie of all time. It was an
32:51
Speaker 1: amazing movie. Had nothing to be gambling, I don't know,
32:53
Speaker 1: but but he's also likely to. Alan's a strange guy.
32:56
Speaker 1: The thing you just made me potentially appreciate owning the
33:00
Speaker 1: hone even more because you laid out a couple of
33:02
Speaker 1: things and and black Check is right, like, this is
33:04
Speaker 1: about a guy who's leading a double life. And so
33:07
Speaker 1: he's a bank and it's a true story, by the way,
33:09
Speaker 1: all based in a true story. He is a banker
33:11
Speaker 1: in Toronto, like a mid level associate manager banker who's
33:15
Speaker 1: really trusted and he's able to use that trust and
33:17
Speaker 1: goodwill and sort of being a guy who um is
33:21
Speaker 1: beloved at his bank to then take advantage the rules
33:24
Speaker 1: and start withdrawing from the accounts that he manages. Uh.
33:27
Speaker 1: And then he goes on these benders in Atlantic City
33:30
Speaker 1: and and sort of one of these subplots is I
33:32
Speaker 1: think this is why it's about called owning mahoney, is
33:35
Speaker 1: these two competing properties, one in Atlantic City, one in Vegas,
33:39
Speaker 1: but are really trying to own him as a white
33:42
Speaker 1: and trying to compete for him as a whale. Um.
33:45
Speaker 1: And there's one really sort of nefarious you know, a
33:49
Speaker 1: c casino boss who is really trying to manipulate Mahoney
33:56
Speaker 1: in ways that he doesn't even need to because mahone,
34:00
Speaker 1: he is so driven to gamble as much as he
34:02
Speaker 1: possibly can U one of the that's John Hurt, one
34:05
Speaker 1: of the real great actors of his generation in a
34:08
Speaker 1: very flashy role. Because let me just I want to
34:11
Speaker 1: mention something that you just talked about. That that because
34:15
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that the things that most people
34:18
Speaker 1: I don't know if it if it counts us, but
34:20
Speaker 1: you know I I do get the fantasy of I
34:22
Speaker 1: go to Vegas and things work great and I'm winning.
34:25
Speaker 1: The thing has really never happened that, you know, you
34:28
Speaker 1: get all these extras, right that there's a that their
34:32
Speaker 1: casino boss is going to give you a great suite,
34:35
Speaker 1: right and upgrade you and you can show your friends
34:37
Speaker 1: what a big shot you are, and you get free
34:40
Speaker 1: dinner at the you know, at the great they offers
34:42
Speaker 1: first the Japanese restaurant and maybe an Italian restaurant to
34:47
Speaker 1: Mahoney in the movie, and they even bring a girl
34:49
Speaker 1: for him. And he doesn't care about the room, he
34:53
Speaker 1: doesn't care about the food, he doesn't care about the girl.
34:56
Speaker 1: All he cares about is his addiction. All he cares
35:00
Speaker 1: about is the obsession. When finally they talk about food,
35:03
Speaker 1: there's a great moment. And the movies like I want
35:05
Speaker 1: some ribs, no sauce and a coke. I guess you know,
35:10
Speaker 1: if it doesn't matter, that's just sustance. Um, all he
35:14
Speaker 1: wants to do his gamble. He doesn't even really change clothes.
35:18
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter whether there's a beautiful woman there. It
35:20
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the restaurant is, It doesn't matter how
35:22
Speaker 1: great the room is. His buddy loves the room. But
35:24
Speaker 1: he could care less. He doesn't. He just you know,
35:26
Speaker 1: eventually he'll need knows he needs to sleep for four
35:29
Speaker 1: hours before he goes back down in gambles. Then, I'm
35:31
Speaker 1: curious to your take on something, because when Chad started
35:33
Speaker 1: this conversation, he indicated that he didn't like the movie,
35:36
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I really didn't love it either.
35:39
Speaker 1: And you pointed out at the beginning of your comments
35:41
Speaker 1: by saying, it's a movie about addiction, not really about gamble,
35:44
Speaker 1: And I think that's right. Do you think one of
35:45
Speaker 1: the reasons why maybe the movie didn't do as well
35:48
Speaker 1: as people had hoped in you know, in spite of
35:51
Speaker 1: the fact that Philip symour Hoffman was as good as
35:53
Speaker 1: he wasn't it is that it's not like your typical
35:55
Speaker 1: addiction movie, and that he doesn't really have anything redeeming
35:59
Speaker 1: about him. He doesn't seem to be trying to get help. Ever,
36:03
Speaker 1: there's no even subtle nod to that. He just seems
36:08
Speaker 1: to be very cold and detached and just an unlikable character. Yeah,
36:13
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I think that's a fair point.
36:15
Speaker 1: I don't agree with it, but I definitely think it's
36:18
Speaker 1: a fair point. I'm like the first ridiculous citizen game point. Um,
36:23
Speaker 1: I can't believe this guy is still on the phone.
36:25
Speaker 1: Uh no, I I you know, look, I mean this
36:29
Speaker 1: is I guess, you know, revealing for me, and I'm
36:32
Speaker 1: sure it's revealing for other gamblers. Though. Is that you
36:35
Speaker 1: know he's he's not cruel, except there's one moment when
36:38
Speaker 1: he yells at his friend for for what he perceives
36:41
Speaker 1: as you know, uh, you know, as chilling hot streak. Um.
36:46
Speaker 1: But he even makes that up to him. He comes
36:48
Speaker 1: up to the room, he's like, you know, you know,
36:50
Speaker 1: there's that look that says, I know I was on
36:52
Speaker 1: an ass um. So I do identify with him. He's
36:56
Speaker 1: never he is fully focused on the on the addiction. Yes,
37:01
Speaker 1: he'd ever, but it wouldn't have been true. It would
37:03
Speaker 1: have felt false if he'd had. He has these recognition
37:07
Speaker 1: calls with many drivers his fiance like the boy, I
37:09
Speaker 1: know I've let you down, but really he in the
37:13
Speaker 1: throes of the addiction. That's all you can focus on. Um.
37:17
Speaker 1: He won't bow, he won't steal from me. He doesn't
37:19
Speaker 1: steal from her. He doesn't take money out of her pocket.
37:22
Speaker 1: She even offers him like a grand total of three
37:24
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and he looks at her like, I'm not
37:26
Speaker 1: sure you fully understand how much money I've I've lost
37:29
Speaker 1: here your your retirement account is not going to help me.
37:32
Speaker 1: So I did identify with him, but I think it's
37:34
Speaker 1: a fair point. He doesn't do anything like, you know,
37:37
Speaker 1: feed a homeless cat. You know. Um, he is solely
37:41
Speaker 1: focused on satisfying his particular hunger. The uh. It's also
37:47
Speaker 1: like to me, it felt like it was a small
37:51
Speaker 1: independent movie. My wife and I have these fights all
37:54
Speaker 1: the time on the popcorn guy like I want to
37:57
Speaker 1: go see Will Smith. I want to go see a
38:00
Speaker 1: big movie that has the highs and lows and all
38:03
Speaker 1: the sort of superficial yet very visceral moments and like
38:08
Speaker 1: has a real narrative to it. And my wife just
38:10
Speaker 1: wants to go see the squid in the whale. Like
38:13
Speaker 1: she just wants to, you know, pop into the middle
38:15
Speaker 1: of someone's day, and like she doesn't care if there's
38:18
Speaker 1: a beginning or an end. She just wants to live
38:21
Speaker 1: in that moment. This to me was like a squid
38:23
Speaker 1: in the whale for gambling. Like it didn't have any ups,
38:26
Speaker 1: it didn't have any downs. It just had like the
38:27
Speaker 1: attention the tension of him gambling, and uh, then exactly
38:32
Speaker 1: what you thought would happened would happen, Like he got caught,
38:35
Speaker 1: that's great, that's great, and that he knows he's gonna
38:38
Speaker 1: get caught. Of course, he knows he's gonna get caught.
38:39
Speaker 1: I definitely think it add downs, grang right upside. Um,
38:43
Speaker 1: you know, I think that that both those kinds of
38:46
Speaker 1: movies enhance our enjoyment of the other. Um, you know,
38:49
Speaker 1: I don't. I am certainly obviously, you know, I'm sort
38:52
Speaker 1: of duty bound by my job to appreciate both types
38:57
Speaker 1: of stories. Um, you know, and there's nothing. Uh, there
39:00
Speaker 1: are few things as annoying as as sort of a
39:04
Speaker 1: movie fan who won't allow themselves to be dazzled by
39:08
Speaker 1: a successful big movie. There are a lot of money
39:12
Speaker 1: is spent where they nailed it right, where it's good,
39:14
Speaker 1: I mean, where it's bad, it's terrible. But when when
39:16
Speaker 1: they really get it right in the kind of movie
39:17
Speaker 1: that you describe that you like, Chad, that that's great,
39:19
Speaker 1: and when people are like, oh, it's too you know,
39:22
Speaker 1: I mean, if you make it, well, then let's enjoy it,
39:24
Speaker 1: let's celebrate it. But but I also think that there
39:27
Speaker 1: is room for the squid in the way of gambling movies.
39:30
Speaker 1: And uh, and I think that this this one, this
39:33
Speaker 1: may well be this may well be it. I also
39:35
Speaker 1: think it didn't you know, it doesn't do well because
39:37
Speaker 1: gambling sports, like somebody with an alcohol addiction or a
39:41
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, is identifiable, and there's a sense among the
39:45
Speaker 1: audience that that an accepted sense that this is a disease,
39:49
Speaker 1: right and the end you want to help these people.
39:52
Speaker 1: I don't think we have that in general as a
39:55
Speaker 1: society with gambling, that that is seen as a weakness.
39:59
Speaker 1: Well just stop gambling, don't do it anymore like that
40:03
Speaker 1: is not seen as the same level of addiction. It
40:05
Speaker 1: doesn't engender the same kind of sympathy for you or
40:09
Speaker 1: for your family. It feels selfish and indulgent. And I
40:13
Speaker 1: think part of that is driven by the majority of
40:17
Speaker 1: people not understanding the gambling world. So they're they're they're frequently,
40:22
Speaker 1: they're turned off by numbers. We live in a world
40:24
Speaker 1: where people are are frequently. Many people are turned off
40:27
Speaker 1: by numbers. Not the people listening to this podcast, clearly,
40:30
Speaker 1: but you know many of us are turned off. That's
40:33
Speaker 1: what we need. We need to make the great sports
40:36
Speaker 1: Betting movie that isn't about addiction, but about the process
40:40
Speaker 1: of sports betting and people who can do it and
40:43
Speaker 1: do it well and lead dramatically interesting lives and they
40:49
Speaker 1: happen to be sports bettors without it happen to be
40:51
Speaker 1: about their addiction. But the thing of it is, though,
40:53
Speaker 1: I'm going to use one of my friends as an example.
40:55
Speaker 1: Great I'm about to go home and see him this weekend.
40:57
Speaker 1: We go on an annual baseball trip. We're going to Cleveland,
41:00
Speaker 1: and he went to Brown and Georgetown Law School. It's
41:05
Speaker 1: a very successful guy, he's smart, and he loves sports.
41:08
Speaker 1: He's would have been the guy I have of my
41:10
Speaker 1: friends who I who knows the second most amount about
41:13
Speaker 1: sports in my And we go to Vegas every now
41:17
Speaker 1: and then, and and well and and and if there's
41:20
Speaker 1: a baseball game and I'm like, well, you know, I'm
41:22
Speaker 1: gonna take the Indians there there minus against the Tigers, right,
41:28
Speaker 1: And he still had every time he's like, well, so
41:31
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And I'm like you, how do
41:34
Speaker 1: you not We've been going for twenty years. How do
41:37
Speaker 1: I still have to say? I mean, you got a
41:39
Speaker 1: bet utter one hundred, but you better hundred, and the
41:42
Speaker 1: Indians when you and then the Tigers when you one
41:44
Speaker 1: D five? That's what the plus. They still don't get it,
41:48
Speaker 1: like and there and he's smart and gambles, So it
41:52
Speaker 1: doesn't connect for some people. And then some of these movies,
41:55
Speaker 1: even Owning Mahoney, got it a little wrong. But lay
41:58
Speaker 1: the Favorite, the language in lay the Favorite was like,
42:01
Speaker 1: why would you make this movie unless you've loved gambling?
42:04
Speaker 1: But these guys don't even know what they're talking about.
42:06
Speaker 1: Half the time. They refer to the n C Double
42:08
Speaker 1: A Tournament playoffs, and he uses the word playoffs regard
42:12
Speaker 1: to the n A Tournament, right right exactly, um Ben,
42:20
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on the podcast. I enjoyed the
42:23
Speaker 1: conversation more than I enjoyed the movie. Um. By the way,
42:27
Speaker 1: let me stay real quick, you gotta go. But all
42:28
Speaker 1: three of those movies, Lay the Favorite, which was horrible,
42:31
Speaker 1: the Gambler, which is great, and I think Onie Mahoney
42:32
Speaker 1: was great. All of them have dramatic moments that come
42:36
Speaker 1: down to free throws. I know, I mean, I don't
42:40
Speaker 1: remember Lay the Favorite, but that was actually a great
42:43
Speaker 1: scene in the movie when Ony Mahoney, Uh, when Philip
42:47
Speaker 1: Mohaffman is practically in the television on that last free throw,
42:51
Speaker 1: and that is actually a moment where that does feel
42:54
Speaker 1: like a gut punch, and that's you know, and that's
42:56
Speaker 1: and that happened in the Georgetown game. I don't know
42:58
Speaker 1: what the spread was. I tried to find, but James
43:00
Speaker 1: Worthy after the Steel or that when Freddy Brown in
43:03
Speaker 1: the past it he then missed those two free throws, um,
43:07
Speaker 1: and they one by one. Um. And in the Gambler,
43:10
Speaker 1: it's James con in the tub and Jerry West has
43:13
Speaker 1: three to make two that's exactly right. Missed all three.
43:19
Speaker 1: It's really great. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna watch next.
43:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to rewatch The Gambler next. That's gonna be
43:25
Speaker 1: next in the summer movie series that I'm doing in
43:27
Speaker 1: my house. That one you'll enjoy more, I'm certain. Ben
43:31
Speaker 1: manko Witz, thank you so much for coming on. Thank
43:34
Speaker 1: you for these suggestions. Thank you for the conversation. I
43:37
Speaker 1: might have to have you come back on so we
43:38
Speaker 1: can talk about The Gambler. Come on anytime. Thanks to
43:42
Speaker 1: both of you for for having me appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
43:46
Speaker 1: If you want to do this thing right for the
43:47
Speaker 1: next movie, you have to invite me up to the
43:49
Speaker 1: Mansion and Grantage and we watch it together. I'm not
43:52
Speaker 1: inviting you anywhere. That's how we do it, all right.
43:54
Speaker 1: This has been the Favorites from the Action Network. We're
43:57
Speaker 1: gonna get out of here because we're keeping black Jack
43:59
Speaker 1: up at this point. Thank you Matt Moore for coming
44:02
Speaker 1: on giving us that Warriors, Raptors, Lakers Future odds breakdown.
44:07
Speaker 1: Thank you to Ben Makewitz, host of Turn of Classic Movies,
44:11
Speaker 1: for coming on. This has been the Favorites downloaded from
44:15
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, rate, subscribe, review, Radio dot Com, Slash, The
44:21
Speaker 1: Action Network. Until next time, black Jack, What did you say?
44:25
Speaker 1: I Love you,