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How to Become a Better Leader by Leading Like Yourself | Tami Chapek · Books4Guys

0:13
SPEAKER_00: We just kind of kick this off.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Is you do a lot, you do a lot.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: You you speak a lot, you're coaching a lot, you know, you're working with all the these clients.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: And as I was uh this morning, I've my brain's just scattered.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, you know what?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask Timmy this question because maybe it'll just help me personally.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: But how do you manage your time and schedule?
0:34
SPEAKER_00: And and how do you, I guess, how do you determine when you're at your threshold when when clients and people are like, hey, Tammy, we need your help, we need your help.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: How do you balance all of that?
0:44
SPEAKER_02: It's a great, great question.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: And there's so many moving parts being a small business owner, and to your point about doing like different services along the way.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, and honestly, a lot of it, I I mean my calendar becomes my king about how I how I rule rule my time, right?
0:58
SPEAKER_02: So I try to do time blocks when I need to work on things, as well as obviously carving out time for clients.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: And so I try to just manage it that way so that it doesn't become this overwhelming to-do list and and then you know, then I'm over overcommitted.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: So if I don't have time on the calendar, it just doesn't happen.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's good to know.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my wife and I, we both actually operate off like two different laptops, two different calendars, and two different time zones.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: And we're both like, there's gotta be an easier way to do this.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a lot of coordination.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: I and I know a lot of people do it.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: We were just it was just funny a couple nights ago.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: We were like, how do we what are we doing?
1:39
SPEAKER_00: There's gotta be, you know, a better way to organize.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, I talked to a lot of people who do a lot of funny things and manage a lot of different things.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I'm sure there's a chance.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: And it's just like to-do lists for top priorities, notes, things that have I haven't I haven't used it yet, but I just bought it to see like could this help me focus a little bit more?
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Because I do tend to live in a little bit of a just-in-time world of like what has to happen today.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: And so getting ahead of things would be a little bit more helpful, but but it's so far so good.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's awesome.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I I keep notes in my iPhone and I'll just kind of like add and subtract as I go.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, cool.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: I got to eliminate three things today, but I added another one.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a running list, but uh no.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, Tammy, I'm so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast, and I'm so glad that Diana got us introduced a while back and we've been able to uh to get this on our calendars and schedules for us to do this.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: And I've got your book on the Books for Guys website, leadership redefined and uh defy as the olded part of that word, and defy the ordinary to unleash your potential.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: And Tammy, I would like to just kick things off and just have you share a little bit about yourself and your background because as I was preparing, I I saw your career.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: You've done a lot of different things.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were you a little bit of healthcare, marketing, software, you know, and you you did the career progression, and now you do a lot of uh, like I said, a lot of different things in helping others, you know, and specifically like how how to be better leaders and how do we, you know, in in our organ organizations today, how can we we don't get a lot of that training.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people don't.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, this is this is how we learn.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, just tell a little bit about your story, how how you got to this point.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the the short version, and I'll elaborate wherever you want me to, but you know, I did start my my professional career out in marketing.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: I played in a couple different spaces.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: So early years were software, B2B, and then I landed in the healthcare space, and I was in there the vast majority of my marketing career from that point on.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: And I always say there was like two pivotal moments that kind of led me to be where I am today and to kind of make a major shift and start serving people in a leadership development capacity.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, the first was my my very first promotion into management.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: I was in my mid-20s.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: I went from being a high-performing individual contributor to having two directory ports overnight.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: No one said, hey, think about it this way or consider these things.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: And so I literally just jumped into it without much thought or intention.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: And I found myself being a being a micromanager.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: I found myself saying, like, well, if I did it this way and I was rewarded with the promotion, then everyone should do it this way too.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: And I was super controlling with the work and people's time and schedules and dotting I's and T's cross crossy T's that maybe didn't need to be dotted or crossed, you know?
4:25
SPEAKER_02: So my first performance degree was kind of rough.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: And I realized at that point I needed to figure out like, A, how can I be a better leader?
4:31
SPEAKER_02: And then B, how do I continue to develop myself and grow in my career?
4:35
SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you there's a lot more, a lot more fall-down moments in the middle of that.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: But that was the very first pivotal moment of being like, I need, I, I want to be a good leader.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: How do I do that?
4:45
SPEAKER_02: And again, a lot of trial and error.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: And then fast forward to 2016, I was still working in marketing.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: It's a high burnout industry.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: I was very much in that place of like, what is going on with my life?
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Is this what I want it to look like?
4:58
SPEAKER_02: And I moved into a slightly different role.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: And I just honestly wasn't set up for success.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: I had poor leadership above me.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was, I was just not thriving.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I certainly wasn't feeling like I was doing a good job.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden I'm questioning my values, questioning my value that I'm giving to the organization.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing a good job, which I had never done a bad job before, you know.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: So like all these things started compounding to really cause me to say, like, what do I want to do with the rest of my life?
5:23
SPEAKER_02: Because this is not it.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: So I lovingly call it my midlife crisis moment.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: And I worked with a coach at that point, and I really realized that a lot of the things that I was doing in my job that I love doing was my development of my team.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: I had to become really passionate about like helping people not make the same mistakes that I made and to learn a little bit faster, a little bit easier.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: So I started taking coaching classes, thinking like maybe I could just be a better boss and this would be something that I could just use to continue to develop myself.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And I fell in love with the industry, and that's kind of how it all happened.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: So I started my business in 2017, started with just coaching, just me.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Now it's me and a team of coaches.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: We do leadership training programs, keynote presentations, coaching for individuals, coaching for teams.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of things, but all with that heart of like, how do I be a good leader?
6:07
SPEAKER_02: And how do I be that best version of me?
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Because I learned very quickly the way my bosses were leading wasn't the way that I needed to lead.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you said it right, trial and error.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: I've I yeah, I was thinking back, you know, in into my first role too, kind of similar.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I got kind of pushed into it, no one really told me how to do it.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: I I thought, I thought I was doing a pretty good job, you know, for the most part.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: And and but you you take pieces away from those that are above you.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And so you think I I'll never forget.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: I there was a guy that I know I didn't mesh well with, but I thought, hey, this is leadership.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And I remember one day doing what he did to me, to others, and I never felt more like worse in my life.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I was driving home and I was like, Chris, this is not you at all, man.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: This is not your leadership style.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: We we got to change this approach.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: But but like you said, trial and error, you kind of like figure it out on the go a lot of times.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: We all have, I think what you do is so important because so many people we learn in different ways.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: And and coaching, I think though, is like the number one way to learn is having someone like you just be vulnerable and say, like, Tammy, I need help.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm in this role, like help me be a better person.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: It's the same with fitness, it's the same with every area of our life, really.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: And so there's there's there's no shortage of need for for what you do.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: I like to think about it as excel like performance acceleration to your point, even with like a fitness coach, right?
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Like any you're gonna get that committed time where you wouldn't have it otherwise.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: And even if you're taking a class or reading a book, like it's very different than like personal application.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And those things are great, but yeah, having someone walk along with you and with that guidance, I can't preach that enough in in every area.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: When you so when you decided to take the leap and start your own thing, I'm curious to know, you know, when you got into your professional life, you know, to start, did you ever think that you might start your own business or do your own?
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, did you have an entrepreneurial type spirit?
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Or was it something that just kind of you were like, whoa, I guess I'm gonna do this, but I don't know what I'm doing?
8:10
SPEAKER_02: Never had an entrepreneurial spirit ever.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like I was had many offers to join a sales team throughout the course of my career, but I would never take it because I didn't want the risk of not having a steady paycheck.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: So then all of a sudden I'm like, yes, let's start a business, let's do this.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: So it really was this like alignment of like my equ guy, right?
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I've really connected to purpose and passion and what the world needs and what the world will pay for, kind of all came together for me.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, at a place again where I was burnt out and just done.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: I needed to do something different.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: And in the back of my mind, I was I just kept saying, well, worst case scenario, if this doesn't work out, you can go back and back into marketing and advertising.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Like you'll always have a home there.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Although I don't know if I do now with AI and how much the world has changed in the past nine years, but but I I I honestly just just started, I just started and you know it's it's it's working out okay.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: No, I I would say you you you made the right decision in a lot of different ways.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Tammy, as you were getting started, what were some of the because I and again I want to get into to the book, but I'm curious about your journey as well.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, what were some of the challenges you faced?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: What were some of the things you had to overcome?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm thinking of things just like getting leads, you know, bringing in business.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: You're on your own now.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: You got to produce revenue so you can continue to do what your what your set out, what your goal is.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, what did those earn Yeah, I will tell you the very first struggle that I had to overcome was working by myself at home.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, I had I had worked at home for like a day here or there, but my whole life had been in an in an office environment with in a very like collaborative matrix organization.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so I I really had never done anything just me.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: So that was that was the huge first big thing to overcome is like, how do I stay motivated?
9:53
SPEAKER_02: How do I stay focused?
9:54
SPEAKER_02: How do I like an the extrovert in me was really suffering, like, what am I doing here?
9:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, so then I'm going to coffee shops and hotel lobbies and just to be around people to get a fix, you know.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: But that was really the biggest part.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, that's why I didn't name my business Tammy Chap at coaching.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Because I I always knew I didn't want it to be just me.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Like I never never I don't want to work on an island.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: I think people are much better together and that collaboration and ideation and and challenging of of each other like really helps things, the magic happen.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: So that was my first big obstacle.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: The second you already called out was like, How do I, how do I grow this business?
10:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, I really was I had to rebrand myself.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: So coming out of being a thought leader in the marketing and advertising space in healthcare primarily, to all of a sudden now I'm a leadership development expert, right?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you change people's minds and hearts around that?
10:39
SPEAKER_02: So I had to figure out what that story looked like, what my thread thread between those things, like how can I connect the dots for people so it doesn't feel so foreign?
10:47
SPEAKER_02: And there really is a great story to tell there, you know, but it took me a while to figure that out and get comfortable with it.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: And then then to start to kind of talk to people and share my story and figure out what my my business development process was like.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: I went to a lot of networking events and I went in hungry, right?
11:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna meet you and you're gonna be my client tomorrow.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't work that way.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: And I was definitely giving off a sense of desperation without knowing it.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: My friend Tara called me out on it.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: She's like, you can't look at everyone like they're your lunch.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know I was doing that, right?
11:17
SPEAKER_02: So I really had to shift to be like, how can I go and just make connections, build relationships, add value, and then see what happens from there.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: And that when I was able to shift my mindset on that, everything else started to opening up quite quickly, actually, which was really nice.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you share that because yeah, when you when every person is in theory, they are your lunch and dinner.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Like you, you that's how you're going to survive.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: And so you do have, you know, everyone's a prospect, but you have to, in an outwardly way, approach it a lot differently and just take time, build relationships.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And no one wants to feel like you're being sold to.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: No one wants to feel like you're ready to like attack them, right?
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And it does though.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: It takes, it takes time.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people they want to see, and I again, I think you you had a good transition because you you you had a great foundation of a career.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, no offense to the the TikTokers and Instagrammers out there.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: You see a lot of young folks like, hey, I can show you how to make a million dollars.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: You're like, yeah, can you?
12:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, I I think you had a foundation and it kind of organically happened, which is really cool.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: And then you were able, you know, obviously over the last 10 years to build up what you're at now.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Going into your book, you know, when did you decide?
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Because again, I love I love people that that that write books, because the main reason I think about this is you obviously can go coach one-on-one and talk with people, and and you're only you're only your bandwidth only is gonna cover so much.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: But maybe there's someone like myself out there that's like, hey, I want a little help.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I can maybe I don't have direct access to you, but I can at least get your book.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: And there's a blueprint in there that I can start to follow and and I can improve in some way.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So I I love that you wrote a book because you can reach more people.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: But what was the process like for you?
13:00
SPEAKER_00: And when did you decide, hey, I'm I'm I'm gonna become an author.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna publish something and write this out.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was quite a process.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you the the book really is my like a lot of my story and the kind of that discovery of like all the trial and error I was telling you about earlier.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Like it was that that I was not leaning into my strengths or my authenticity.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: I was taking somebody else's, you know.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: So I emulated a lot, like to your early point, like your boss does it this way, I should do it this way too.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And I did that, but I had a lot of male bosses.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm not male, right?
13:30
SPEAKER_02: So like I took on characteristics that weren't my own and I got my hand slapped for it.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: I could go into a lot more detail there, right?
13:36
SPEAKER_02: But ultimately I had to go through this discovery of like, when I can lean into my strengths and what what I'm gifted at, then everything else kind of connects and follows around that, right?
13:45
SPEAKER_02: So the whole book is on this premise of like, we gotta change the rules.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: It's no longer like emulate your boss, follow the leader mentality.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: We're just not in that world anymore.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: We're not, you know, we're too much, way too much into individuality and people need empathy and human connection and all the things in there.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: So the book is really that idea of like, how do I break the rules so that I can show up the way that's best for me?
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And how can I lean into my strengths and gifts, still with an eye towards development, but knowing that like I can be this version and still be very successful versus copying ex-boss's behavior.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: So I had this heart and it really honestly became so much of my coaching.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: I started doing workshops on it because I was like, people need to think about this differently.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And and then that led to um, well, maybe I should write a book about this, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_02: And that led to then, well, what do I call it?
14:29
SPEAKER_02: And you know, so some luckily I'm a marketer, so I was like, this is kind of a good way to think about it, you know, breaking some rules.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: But but ultimately the that that's what started the process because it just became organic to even how I was showing up as a coach.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: So then I started writing it, and that was a three-year journey, and I thought it would take one year, but I got in my own way a lot.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, I definitely had imposter syndrome as I was writing it, and then I would have kind of stutter steps, like I'd write like a couple chapters, and then I would like not come back to it for three months, you know, like just all the anxiety or the fear or the whatever going into it.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: So it took a long time for me to get there, and then especially sending it out to some trusted colleagues and peers to say, like, will you read this and review it for me and let me know your feedback?
15:10
SPEAKER_02: And then I got the feedback and I didn't know what to do with the feedback, right?
15:13
SPEAKER_02: So it took a it was a journey for sure.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad you mentioned the the dreaded words people have the imposter syndrome.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Because that's I was talking to someone this, I was talking with someone about this the other day, and I'm like, man, I've interviewed now 200 plus guests on this podcast, a lot of successful people.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: And one thing I've learned is most all of them have this feeling of like, I don't know if I know as much as I think I do.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: And but I think that's why, like yourself, people are so successful because you have this approach of like, hey, I'm still learning, like I'm still trying to grow.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, I do believe I have something to share.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's that fine line of like, hey, I'm still learning, but you're also not afraid to fail either.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: So writing the book and feeling like, I don't know if I should be the one to do this, you still took on the challenge.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's the main thing is the action part of it.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people that are scared to do things, and and if when they don't do it, they don't they don't level up.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: But if you at least take on the the challenge and say, hey, we're gonna give this a try, well, usually you get just enough out of that comfort zone where some amazing things happen, you know, like this.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love that you share that though, because most everyone has admitted that.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I don't know if I'm good enough to do this or not, but we'll go with it.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: It's a very vulnerable process, right?
16:26
SPEAKER_02: Like you're you're you know putting your this baby out to the world for people to judge.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: But I do think, you know, regardless of where people are in their leadership journey, whether just starting out or they're really advanced, there's still a lot that you can take from the the book and kind of the principles around it because it really is there's always a room for development.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: And I talk about it, authenticity isn't an excuse to say, like, well, I just am who I am, take it or leave it, right?
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, it's about knowing your strengths and gifts and using those to your advantage with an eye towards how can I continue to be just a little bit better every day.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: There's that like personal accountability, personal growth piece and seeing how you can improve versus how does everyone else need to adapt to you.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Which I'm curious to know because you've been, I think what you've been doing has been unique in being in this like time frame from 2017 or 16 to now because you've seen COVID, you've seen AI.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious to know, I know leadership in general, you know, we're still learning how to guide people, motivate people, get everyone on the same page to move in in one direction.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: But are there some things since you started your coaching business that you've seen, I don't know, transition?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of just like different generations now who are seeing leadership in a different way.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And and I was talking to someone about this yesterday too.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, younger people want companies to also have a say in doing things ethically and and having a social impact, along with obviously the business needs to grow.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: So, as leaders, what are some things that are maybe different today than they were 15 years ago, just with the added elements to the job in in trying to make sure everyone's happy and going, but also doing the work needed.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: And there's there's so many ways I could answer this question, but I'll kind of focus on a couple couple of things.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: One, I think just the fact that sheer volume of different generations in the workforce.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, 15 years ago it was like three.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: We had three generations.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: Now we're leaning on five, you know, leading up to five, right?
18:22
SPEAKER_02: So and every generation is stereotyping, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_02: But every generation has nuances as to how they want to work, what their values are, what's most important to them.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: So that's been an interesting shift.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: And I would say even just a couple of years ago, I had a lot of clients being like, how do I talk to them?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know, right?
18:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, so so that's been a huge shift.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's certainly AI and people's discomfort with with change and with technology and other things doing their job for them.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's been a shift too, as well as the remote work environment.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, so we went from, you know, most companies being all in office all the time to everybody being home for a period of time to then variations of of the above.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: And I just looked up a stat recently, and I want to say it's only 10% of offices are requiring 100% back in.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: So it's still a low, lower number than it has been.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: The vast majority are hybrid, so so some flex scheduling.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: But it but you know, I'm curious to see how that will continue to evolve.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: Like we've proved that we can work from home, but also we want people to be in the office for collaboration and camaraderie and you know, whatever that looks like.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: So I think those are the three biggest shifts I've seen along the way.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: But the the interesting underlying thing in all of them, and I'm oversimplifying it, but I think sometimes we overcomplicate things as humans.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: But like at the end of the day, the heart of all of those things to solve it is human connection, right?
19:36
SPEAKER_02: So the more that we understand who we work with, what's important to them, what's important to me, or our values are, our motivations, like as we understand and know who people are, then all of those challenges kind of go away.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, because we really just need like for for humans, we crave that, we need that.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: And when we behave like we don't, that's where things break down and fall apart.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's a great message right there.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Because number one, I didn't realize like how many different generations we have working together now.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, I do feel like it used to be like, hey, I'm a young leader, how do I also lead this person that's 20 years older than me, or vice versa?
20:10
SPEAKER_00: But now there's like a big difference in every category of person that's working within an organization.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: So being able to balance that, but also the the human connection piece, we we move so fast.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: We always have, but now it's like even faster with technology and stuff.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you're I think you're absolutely right.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: We miss the communication piece, and that's when things kind of fall apart.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: But if you can pause just long enough so that everyone understands, everyone understands each other, everyone understands the way we we all are thinking, and then can bring that together as we move forward.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a huge key.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad you said that because that's something I've been interested in too, just just how fast paced life is.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, even my wife, like would if when we go a hundred miles an hour in different directions, all of a sudden we're like bickering about something and we're like, why are we but then we talk it out, we're like, oh, if I'd have just told you I was going here, you know, like those simple connection pieces.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: And it's funny that you say that.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: And it this is in the book too, but I wrote an article probably five years ago at this point.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's my most popular article that people find, find, and search out and share.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: But it's really on expectation setting being what the root of all breakdowns in relationships is the fact that we don't communicate our expectations and we don't make sure the person actually heard us, right?
21:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, so and I love there's a quote that I love.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: It's leadership is not what you say, it's what they hear, right?
21:29
SPEAKER_02: So have I actually confirmed that they heard me?
21:32
SPEAKER_02: I've communicated in a way that they can connect with that makes sense to them.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: And that's where all the breakdowns happen.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: We assume they know.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: I told them once before they know, right?
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I don't have to say it again.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe maybe you do, you know, maybe you need to say it in a slightly different way.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: That and that's a great too.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about that too.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Because again, you're you're on your phone or you're looking something, you're thinking about something else.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: And just because someone said you said it.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just because someone said it didn't mean you heard it.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and uh that's a great point.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: And so the ex marketer of me, right?
21:59
SPEAKER_02: So it used to be.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I had to say something three times for someone to retain it.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Now it's seven to ten times because we are moving so fast and we're in such an instant gratification world.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: I send a message, it goes.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: I get a text back.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of you know, like we get the these like dopamine hits from these things.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: So we're not paying as close attention anymore.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: We need to hear it multiple times for it to click.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I believe that.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm looking at myself in the mirror when I've really a lot recently.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, I've got to do better about like focusing on one thing at a time instead of because I'm I'm losing track of too many things.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: As most people are probably.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Tammy, now that you've been doing this a while, and and I your name's probably out there, and I'm sure there's referrals, but like when people reach out to you, what is the the main reason?
22:42
SPEAKER_00: And like what if what roadblock has someone hit before they're calling you?
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Because I know a lot of people ego, like, hey, I'm a good leader, I don't need help, I don't want coaching, like I can, you know, do this, I don't want to pay for this.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: But like typically at some point, I'm sure there's something they've hit, a wall they've hit when they're like, okay, we need to bring in a coach or I need help.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: What what is typically that situation when you get called in to help?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna answer it two ways.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: So we are we the bulk of my business now is working with corporations and kind of supplementing their leadership development trainings or tools.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, so oftentimes that's when like a performance review has happened or someone just got promoted, or someone's getting groomed to step into a bigger role.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: So we get called in those moments because it is about like how do we can accelerate that performance, make sure that they're really lasering in on the things that will help them be successful in that way.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: So, like that's one bucket on the inverse side, then that's the individuals who are not getting that from their companies.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: They're not being invested in by their organizations, but they know they need something more.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's often the individuals who really want to advance themselves into then that next level leadership role, whatever that looks like.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: How do I get there?
23:50
SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes it does get into a little bit of skill development, but oftentimes it's that confidence building.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: How do I tell my story?
23:56
SPEAKER_02: How do I show up as that intentional leader every day?
23:59
SPEAKER_02: So I like to say that the the undertone of all of it is like that spirit of betterment.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I just want to be that I just want to be the best leader I can be.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: What does that really look like?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I know you, you know, you guys are are one team that's out there working with organizations, but just your personal opinion and what you see in the market.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Do you think companies are doing enough to prepare that that next level of leadership?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: And again, I know this is you have a lot of work.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: You're busy, obviously, for a reason.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: But do you think like what can companies do better about in in preparation of having leaders ready?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Because I it's important.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Like your business only goes as far as your people are going to take it.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: So what's I'm certainly biased because I think people need support to be great leaders, right?
24:42
SPEAKER_02: But I do see like when companies invest, they tend to invest in one area and not think about it as a journey or kind of a broad broad approach to to leadership development.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: So companies tend to either invest in like next generation leadership programs.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: So that group that just got promoted into their first time management role or just starting to like have the potential to get there, which is great.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: Like if I I wish I would have had that, it would have made my life so much easier.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: So like they invest there, or they invest in coaching for their C-suite or more senior level executives, right?
25:11
SPEAKER_02: Like we want to make sure that the top of the foon chart here, right, is really like running the show properly.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: But there's a huge gap in the middle that's really missing.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what your experiences were, but I had a lot of middle managers who were toxic, controlling, who held me back in my career.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: I was one of them for a short period of time, right?
25:30
SPEAKER_02: Like I like to say short.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: I hope it wasn't as painful as it could have been.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: But right, like so there's this middle bucket that is is missing.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: And or, you know, again, most companies are investing in one or one place, not both.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: So I think there should be in the perfect world, and it doesn't have to be coaching for everybody, but I think there should be multiple touches as you grow in your career to think about like, as I'm a first-time manager, what does that look like?
25:51
SPEAKER_02: How do I think about leadership in the way that I'm still a player coach?
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Like I got to be doing the work and right.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: Versus when I start to get into more strategic management versus when I get into like leader of leader roles.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Like there are times when you need to shift your thinking, shift your approach, shift your values set, like really think about the impact that you're making.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: And I just don't think companies are setting people up to even think about that because it's so much about quality work output, work output, you know, like just not and not about people management.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: It's more about like sell the widgets and gadgets.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great point that that leadership is truly a journey and not every step is the same.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: But you're right, the companies I've been a part of that do some sort of leadership coaching, it's like a one-time thing, and you're supposed to like it.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: But you've got it, chuck chuck.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: But you know, things change obviously.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And people change, technology changes, like the environment of the workplace changes.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: So you've got to have some sort of ongoing development, I would think, to help you be successful, which then leads to the company being successful.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: But it's it that's so tough, yeah, because companies are are they thinking in dollars and and you know there's a lot that that they're getting pulled to do and and having to organize that.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: I know.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: It's an easy thing to cut.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: But also there's tons of data that supports that investment in leadership development pays significant dividends back to an organization in all of the ways.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: The quality of work, output, the employer attention and engagement, loyalty, people's desire to like put in the extra work when they need to, right?
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Like all those things shift when you're a good good leader.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: But if you're a bad leader, people leave, they don't care about the work anymore, right?
27:28
SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's just the data's there.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know why people don't do it.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's it's one of those interesting things.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's several different and I'm not I can't really think of them at the moment, but we just there's certain things we need constant reminders of.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And so again, I think that's why you and your work and what you're doing is so important because sometimes people just need to hear it over and over and over again to buy in and move forward.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's just one of those things.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Again, there's so many different people that are part of it, and and just the growth phase.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of moving pieces to it.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: And so uh again, I just think the work you're doing is important, and then hopefully the book is having an impact as well, and and maybe at least giving individuals some nuggets to lean into and use if they're not getting you know the hands-on coaching that you and your team can give.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, and that's the goal.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: So I well, like I said, I wanted to inspire individuals, and there's we have a workshop surround it too, so we can come into organizations and think there's someone doing one hit, great, like we can still infuse some inspiration there.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: I've actually just started, so hot off the presses, but a second book that is the same.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: Book number two idea.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: So, same R on authenticity and strengths based leadership, but how do I use that as a culture generator versus just the individual and how do I step into good leadership myself?
28:40
SPEAKER_02: How do we set everybody in the organization up to be to lean into their strengths and show up to this those best versions?
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: I was actually gonna ask you.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: That's not a three-year journey this time.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: No, no, but I was gonna ask you, I was like, hey, you've written one, you know.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Did you have that itch to to I got the itch?
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but and you've got a lot though that you can share in in in more than just one book.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of different areas you can hit on.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're you're taking that approach and doing the second book.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Just really two more questions for you, Tammy.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: One to this book in particular, if a leader or an aspiring leader is reading it and and and maybe they're scanning through it, you know, maybe they don't have a lot of time, so they're trying to pick up on something.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Well what's the most important message that you would share, you know, if someone was like, Tammy, I I I'm scamming through, I've got five minutes.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: What what do I need to, what's the one thing I should take away from this?
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: So um I wrote the book to be super practical application.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: So there's actually like steps in there, like you can write, write it out and kind of figure out your path and your plan.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: But I think the number one most important thing is like, what are my strengths?
29:43
SPEAKER_02: How do I want to show up as a leader?
29:44
SPEAKER_02: And there's a blend of current and aspiration there, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Because again, I think there's always room for development.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: We're never, I always say leadership's a journey, not a destination.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: You're never perfect, right?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So, like, how do you lean into that?
29:54
SPEAKER_02: So, chapter six, if you have to do one thing, right?
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Take that away.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are your strengths?
29:58
SPEAKER_02: What are those areas you want to develop in and use that as your focus for how you show up every day?
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Set your intentions in how you show up every day, put an action plan together.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: This means I do a little bit more listening, or I'd pause before I send these emails or whatever those things are.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's it's yeah, chapter six.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: If nothing else, read chapter six.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Last question for you, Tammy.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: And I ask, I try to ask everyone this question just from a books perspective and recommendation standpoint.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: But I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And what's a book or two you love to recommend to other people?
30:33
SPEAKER_02: So I'm anything Brene Brown.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge fan.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: And so just, you know, dare to lead all the things that she's written.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: I haven't read her most recent one on the list, but that's coming out.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: But I actually really love her Atlas of the Heart book, if you've read that, because it allows like it's basically definitions of emotions and it allows again that human connection.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: If I can express how I'm feeling or I can hear how you're feeling, right, then I can connect with you in a more meaningful way.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: So I would recommend those two books for sure.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Start with why also is one of my favorites and one that was really impactful for me to remind myself, right?
31:03
SPEAKER_02: Like we all need to understand the purpose behind what we do.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: And the more we can connect to that, the easier everything else follows.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: We tend to leave people with the what and the how and forget the why.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then there's disengagement.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, good recommendations.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: My wife says I need to do better about sharing my emotions and listen to the heart.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: No, hey, I'm all ears.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey, I'm improving all the time.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's a perfect recommendation.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh that may be my next read as I work on myself.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: But Tammy, no, this has been awesome.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for just sharing your story, sharing your work.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: We're very proud to spotlight you and your your book on the website and and can't wait to share this episode with everyone.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: But just keep doing what you're doing.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: You're doing some amazing things.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: And and now that we've met, I'm excited to continue to follow and see that second book come out and uh just see the positive impact that you're having.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: So thank you again for doing this.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: It was a pleasure to be here.