Latest / Unstuck with Bill / Unstuck With Bill - Moving forward after feeling stuck in a career part 2
Transcript
- speaker-0: Mm-hmm. love trying to cons create conceptual connections between things. I think that's why I love education so much. ⁓ because you can take disparate bodies of knowledge and and come up with new things, ⁓ which is creativity, right? Right. And I want to contribute. And I and that's the other thing is like whatever it is I'm doing, I want to be able to share it and have people benefit from it. And also like me feel like I'm growing. speaker-1: I'm Bill Ferguson III. For more than twenty years as a mediator, I've helped people move through conflict, uncertainty, and change. This is Unstuck with Bill, the podcast where we don't just talk about problems, we give you the techniques to get unstuck. Jill from Tacoma is back. Today she'll share what she discovered and what she's learned about herself along the way. How are you doing today? speaker-0: Grateful. Just feeling grateful. speaker-1: That's good. So when we last spoke, I asked you to use a technique that I call the cloud. The goal in that session wasn't to figure out what job you do next, right? Where your career goes, but the goal was to step back fur enough for you to see yourself differently. And for 17 years, as we've discussed, you've been looking through the lens of being an art teacher. I mean, there's more to it than that, but that's kind of been the profession. ⁓ so what did you learn from the cloud technique? speaker-0: I learned that when I examined the paths that I had taken to get to where I am right now when it comes to developing my skills and knowledge that I have always had ⁓ I've had I've had a lot to offer in in my abilities. as a teacher, but like where what container I put it in. I always felt like it the container I had this idealized container that I thought it had to be in, which was a teaching position. Though when I looked back at my experiences, they were in other containers and ⁓ they they were different shaped. They were Also ways for me to express those things about myself. speaker-1: So give me some examples of things that you kind of learn from this. So because you're talking about containers. ⁓ sometimes I use funnels, silos, things like that, but they're all the same thing. So tell me about some of your containers. speaker-0: Okay. So I going back to the beginning, I, you know, made coffee and sold books. And I can re I remember that my ability to interact with people and try to understand what they need from ⁓ not just like me as a service person, but just as a human, that was Very relatable to what I do as a teacher. ⁓ I was an athlete. I did a lot of s athletic things over the years. I was a dancer. ⁓ competitively I was a bicycle polo player. speaker-1: Wow. Okay. That's interesting. Really? Okay. speaker-0: The world level. Yep. I was a designer, a writer, a photographer, a researcher, a writer, an adventurer, a mentor. I was a naturalist. I was a documentarian. I was a fundraiser. I was a blogger. I was curriculum designer. I was a presenter. I was a poet. I was a ⁓ performance artist beyond just dancing. I was I'm a diver, a yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: So when you saw all that, what opened up for you? speaker-0: that the core of all of that was my desire to connect with people and honor the parts of myself that I'm trying to know best and understand best. So through these experiences, ⁓ professionally and recreationally, it's all boils down to like. the way I can connect to humanity, and feel like I'm a part of something bigger. speaker-1: And then how does that feel just generically speaking about where we're gonna go next with you? Like your next steps. speaker-0: I feel like I could feel like any anything. speaker-1: There. No, that's fantastic, that's fantastic. Because a lot of people get pitch and hold like, This is all I've done, this is all I know how to do. So this technique and and everything you've just listed out just it it it opens the world up, right? It doesn't mean you're gonna do, you know, professional dance diving is your next career. speaker-0: Is might be speaker-1: Yeah, ⁓ yeah. And I who knows, right? So this is perfect 'cause I, you know, I like I said, I never know where we're gonna go with these things when we have our second one a guest back. ⁓ you know, just to let people know, I had a literally a three minute discussion with Jill the other day and I just said, Did you use the technique? Yes or no? So I want the audience to know that I did not know the list of where you were going. And I think it's fantastic. ⁓ and it's exciting. And That being said, ⁓ I have another technique that I think now ties into this, the next step in this process, right? So we start out with, you know, where are you stuck and what is the core area and how do we ⁓ identify that, which you've now done with the cloud. And the next one, which leads perfectly with this list you've created, is called pathways. And we start talking about, mainly you talking about and me helping you, ⁓ possible pathways for a new career or careers. Sometimes people end up coming up with they're going to do more than one thing next, you know, depending on what their capacity and what else they're balancing their life. So let's talk about what rose to the top for you, not necessarily the next job or the next position, but like what if you were to pick three or four things from the list, what when you thought of those, what ⁓ What what just really resonated you like I wanna tie my next Career movement. speaker-0: It's funny because I didn't list artist, which I th I just realized. Because when you're saying that, that's like the first thing that rose up. I'm like, obviously make art you know, like I need to have that be a part of it because I've always done it. And I think maybe it got like too paired with the art education thing that I was just like, that's assumed. But really When I look through this list, art h is a pervasive thread through all of it. And I think that's the thing that kind of ties them all together too. And art and humanity, like connection with humanity, that's part of why art exists. So I it has to be central to that, to whatever happened. speaker-1: But if you think about it, everything you mentioned has a form of art. Artistic. You know, writer, dancer, diver, even that's artistic. You know, all of that is a form of art. People don't think of it that way, but it absolutely is. So, ⁓ okay, bes that's our main thread. So then what would you pick as the next speaker-0: We ⁓ for me I yeah. speaker-1: That you really thought ⁓ wait. There you go. Okay, that's good. speaker-0: love research. I love trying to cons create conceptual connections between things. I think that's why I love education so much. ⁓ because you can take disparate bodies of knowledge and and come up with new things. ⁓ which is creativity, right? Right. And I want to contribute. And I and that's the other thing is like whatever it is I'm doing, I want to be able to share it and have people benefit from it. And also like me feel like I'm growing and developing. speaker-1: Right. Yeah. Okay, so we got two. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Alright. Give me a third, like this has gotta be a part of what I do next. Just for now. speaker-0: I think hon truthfully, it has to probably do with nature. Like anything that's outdoors, anything that's allows me to satisfy that part of me that needs to feel connected to nature. It's very balancing for me and always refills my sense of awe in in life. Keeps me curious. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Okay. All right. So we got art, we have nature, we have research. Mm-hmm. All right. So I'm gonna ask a question I didn't haven't asked before. What's your and I like to use the word runway, because runway is how much time do we have to step into something different? Or how much time do we have in our life that we wanna do? make a change or better ourselves or do something in the world before our runway runs out, right? So for you, how much time do you have runway wise where 'cause some be like, nope, I gotta be working by September or nope, I can do something and slowly ramp up to make it into what I wanna do next. ⁓ roughly, you know. speaker-0: It's funny you say September because that's the thing that com pops up for me because of the fact that I've lived on that annual schedule for so long is that like September is where you like reboot and you start up again. And also like that's when my contract's out is at the end of August. So I think as a teacher that feels like I the pressure of like, okay, what's next? speaker-1: So y by September you'd like to be starting something new. Now, let's assume we do that. Does that something have to be something that matches the income you had in the past? Or can you ramp up into something? speaker-0: Ramp up. speaker-1: Okay. All right. So I think the next thing we have to let me let's talk through a little bit. Do you see yourself as creating being able to create something that's yours that answers those three core areas? We don't know what it is yet, you know. Probably won't know what it is on today's show, but we'll work on it, ⁓ behind the scenes kind of thing. But ⁓ Is that it 'cause some people say I'm not self motivated enough to create my next career. And some people are like, Well, I can do that, but I'll have to balance it with something else. And some people like like, no, I can do this. You know, once I figure out what it is and and we'll use pathways, you know, behind the scenes to work through that. But once I figure out what it is, I I'm the kind of person that I will get fully hard into it, I'll get going and I'll be able to figure this out rather quickly. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm an intense person. So speaker-1: Yeah. That's what I thought. That's that was the answer I was hoping for. That's true. No, I you know, ⁓ but no, everyone's different. So it's you know, that's like me. When I go into something like this podcast, it's like it's all or nothing. You know, man, I'm gonna do it right or don't do it at all. All right. So in your doing this exercise and now thinking about these three areas. speaker-0: Same. speaker-1: And again, it may be fifty percent of one, thirty, twenty, whatever the numbers are, however it works out. Is there anything you've ever come across in your life experiences in the area where you live that you could say, ⁓ that's similar or that's something ⁓ and if you can't think of something, that's fine. But sometimes people are like, ⁓ you know, I know of somebody who's done something similar. speaker-0: well I think ⁓ there are a lot of contemporary artists that I have be been aware of that are research people. Like they'll like for example gosh, what was her name? Annika Yue, I believe. You know, she researches organisms. And then under trying to understand ⁓ like for for one of her works, it's like how they move in a space. And she create she did ⁓ these like floating kind of like membrane like forms that are very jellyfish like and amoeba like and then they float in space and they're controlled by computers. speaker-1: ⁓ interest. speaker-0: that are heat sensitive and so in galleries they'll like follow you around and they'll like fantastic. Yeah, right. It's like ⁓ it it makes the it's like magical, but it's really just like thinking about behavior of organisms and simple things like heat sensitivity and then, you know, programming that into a computer that then sends a signal to the art piece that, you know, stuff like that. speaker-1: So do you see that your next career would just be strictly something along that not necessarily like that, obviously every artist is original. Or do you do you wanna do something that yeah, I don't know. It's speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, the work that I do now, I'm a fiber ⁓ I'm fiber artist right at the moment. Like that's where a lot of my interest is. and I'm also very interested in researching and understanding ⁓ like neurology, like how brains work and how ⁓ like what happens in neurodivergence versus like you know, elastic people that like ha How are these brains operating so on different systems and what those a ⁓ how that creates culture and how those culture creates conditions and how do you express that like those experiences to people so that they have there's a broader understanding of how diverse human minds are? Because we have all these assumptions about, I mean, as a teacher, right? Like we have all these assumptions about how people learn, what's the best practices for that, what we know. But I think we yeah, also you have to differentiate per mind. And so when you're trying to reach a group of minds, ⁓ there's so much nuance to ha knowledge acquisition. And so speaker-1: No. Child to child, right? speaker-0: For me, I'm fascinated by behaviors as related to their neurotypes and like right what why they're doing what they're doing. And then when there's art that does this, right, that has some kind of expression about the human condition related to reality and the way their minds work, I find that really interesting and educational. speaker-1: Could you see yourself doing some sort of book that ties the three together? speaker-0: ⁓ like a speaker-1: Is that something of interest to you? I'm just throwing out ideas. speaker-0: Well yeah, there is because you know it's ⁓ you know, there's a book that I love by Elliot Eisner called Art and the Creation of Mind. And it was a book that I had to read in school and or in graduate school, and I read it and it like i it really does he Elliot Eisner does this fantastic job breaking it down to like how art, visual art change speaker-1: The only thing going on 'cause speaker-0: Changes and forms the mind. And I find that so powerful. I find that so powerful because I've always since very early age felt that art was one of the best ways that I could express myself beyond language, beyond writing, beyond like alphabet. It's like visual, you know, there's just something about it. Anyway. So yeah, when I read that book, I was like, ⁓ I would love to like build on this somehow or be an artist who then is t you know, f say there was like some edition later that Ellie and Iiser or whoever's is ⁓ studying under them would be like ⁓ well this right this artist like obviously read this book. speaker-1: Yeah. No, there's and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, every I mean the reality of it is, you know, as humans, w ⁓ if we do anything artistic, anything creative or anything different, it's seated from something. You know, it doesn't it you know, everything's seated from something. So, you know, when when we talk about a path, right? That could be one potential path, like you start thinking through how would I do a the next step of this, right? And and tie it more to art. or artists or examples of artists or or any number yeah, whatever, any number of ways. Okay. Yeah. But as we know, writing a book and getting a book out there and selling a book takes time. ⁓ it's not an immediate source of income, but it's definitely an immediate source of ⁓ pride and frustration all at the same time. All right. ⁓ okay, so what else? What else might be something you could create for yourself that other people would be interested in. Other people would pay you to to be a part of. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I you know As a fiber artist Yeah, no, it's good. I well, it's making me think about another pathway where I because I'm a fiber artist, I have a a close I'm tangential to textiles, right? Because I'm working with woven materials all the time. And then I was thinking about like fashion and how it would be really interesting to customize fashion designs with my work. So that that you have this like work of art, work of fine art that's like woven into the clothing, you know, or ⁓ in my case it'd be needle felted wool into the clothing and sell it. speaker-1: Yeah. Okay. So there's a potential pathway. Mm-hmm. There was a little side no note because it sticks with me, right? I'm not I don't know a lot about fiber art, but I know a little bit. ⁓ a few years ago in a a museum here, they did an exhibit and it was all women ⁓ businesses and it started with the designer of dresses and the fabric she had made for these dresses. And how that fabric was then turned into something else. And how the remnants from that second product was turned into a third product. All women businesses all around the world that shared this one piece of cloth. And by the end, every fiber had been used. ⁓ I should have to find that for you because I think you'd find it fascinating. Yeah. Sometimes I diverge. I diverge a little bit too. speaker-0: No, I think there's a I think that was a very profound connection because I think as a woman, ⁓ identifying person, there is a deep connection to fibers and textiles because of history, you know, human history and those practices. And Also, the reason I pivoted to fiber arts away from painting and all these other traditional media is because it's renewable and it's less wasteful. speaker-1: There you go. And that's what this whole exhibit in a way was about. It was a it was about a lot of things. And in fact, I've seen many, many art exhibits over the last forty five years. And this one, you know, it's just one of those that's stuck with you at the core, right? What it stood for. So so ⁓ so back to your pathways, sorry. speaker-0: Mm, yeah. It's all connected. speaker-1: Yeah, s I just kinda believe that too. ⁓ all right, so we have two potential pathways. And like I said, w you know, I want to continue to work with you off off the show once we run out of time, but what else might be something that can take all these things you you not you love, you're good at, you're enthusiastic about? speaker-0: Okay. So one is like a wellness, right? Like f being physically active. ⁓ trying not I'm not like a longevity person, like I'm obsessed with like protocols of like extending my life. No, it's it's not about that. It's more about speaker-1: Being as healthy for as long as possible. speaker-0: Right. And giving that and and getting habits and conditions that best support vitality, right? And one of those is sauna. Like I'm a cold water swimmer. I've I love I've been doing it for years. I love it. And so I also have been sauning for years. And I truly believe it's medicine. And especially living in the northwest where I am, where it's dark a lot and it's cold and it's damp, it's nice to be in somewhere like dry and hot. Well, Yeah, dry, hot, and you know, peaceful. Yeah. And very peaceful. So I would love like the the sauna idea of like creating a public sauna is you know, education around wellness, but also in sauna, you know, you wear felt wool felted hats. And then I was thinking like, ⁓ how wonderful would it be to have like a custom wool sauna hat. speaker-1: Right? speaker-0: Given to you at membership. Just speaker-1: That's a really cool idea. I've never had it and there you go. And I think that would where you live would be well appreciated. Palm Springs, maybe not so much, right? speaker-0: Well yeah, there is all there's already a culture of it here. But there's no public saunas. There's no public sauna. Like there well there's one there's one down at a beach that's like a twelve person one and it's just there and they just opened up last year. And then there's portable ones that will like move around and set up shop around the region, but there's no like brick and there's one brick and mortar, but it's ⁓ run by Korean women and it's just for women. speaker-1: Is it okay? Okay. speaker-0: Gotcha. And then they've been there for years. And then there's like one strip molly one that like I wouldn't go to. So you know what I mean? But like I was think, you know, that in like Seattle, for example, there's like Banya, right? And they there's like a ch it's a very well-established, well-known sauna, and they have all of the aspects of like steam rooms and baths and cold plunges and cold showers. Like I would love to have that where I live because it's missing. And because we're a port city, we get a lot of movement through here and it'd be great to like set up that shop nearby, like some places where people are lodging downtown, near other physical places like gyms or whatever. So like the has Y ⁓ C A has Asana, but ⁓ It's like it's the YMCA. Like I would love to create like ⁓ it's your your your own very PNW, very like Tacoma kind of gritty but also beautiful ⁓ experience. And then that builds community and then that like gives gives back, right? It's contributing. speaker-1: Well, and it it's also I think you would have also the opportunity to educate people on this ⁓ area of health, area of ⁓ that helps longevity all helps all kinds of potential ailments before, during or after. ⁓ right. So, you know, you're you're you're giving back, you're educating, you're creating this very peaceful vibe and environment. ⁓ and you know, again, this is you know, we're we're we're We're we're running different pathways down, but is that it sounds like something that would definitely be ⁓ that people would come to where you live in your area. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm really embedded in our cycling community here. and I know that there are a lot of people in the fitness world here that that's part of their lives, but there's no like everybody has to they're like, ⁓ I'm getting my personal infrared sauna. I'm getting my personal infra I'm like, wouldn't it be great if like you didn't have to do that? And you could meet ⁓ network. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah. Now is that the kind of place that'd be, you know, like twelve people and and one individuals or speaker-0: No, it'd be like that. Yeah, I think it would be bigger. Like I would imagine you could get like a twenty person room for like a dry sauna and then have other rooms that are like ⁓ a steam room. Right. ⁓ and then like in the Olymp in the Olympus spa, which is the women's only spa, they have like tea rooms and then like body work rooms and speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: different treatments. And I think that would be maybe something to build up to, like where you're having massage and all that. But ⁓ like initially, like if you've traveled in like in any Scandinavian country where you go to like the public sauna. It's like that's more of like I want it to be like a community kind of thing where it's like this is just part of our culture here. speaker-1: set of people meeting at the gym on a certain day or they go to the gym and they go to the sauna afterwards. Instead of going for coffee afterwards, they go to the sauna afterwards. speaker-0: Exactly. There you go. And we could be open late. You could like instead of going to the bar, like let's push fitz. speaker-1: Right, right, there you go. I love it. Shaped. Yeah. Yeah. That's your name. There's your name of your the son, or at least one of your marketing campaigns. There you go. One of your marketing campaigns. So this is fantastic. All right. All right. So I think Paul wants us to wrap up. So we're gonna wrap up here. But I wanna have you back because I wanna keep working through this with you, you know. speaker-0: Spits over shots. speaker-1: Like I said, let's talk offline and and ⁓ and keep working through and then and see how we can take some pathways. ⁓ one of the things I talked about with people with when they do pathways is it's a direction. Sometimes you'll do one or two, sometimes you'll you'll only do you'll do all three, sometimes you but you kind of work through them and say, Okay, what's doable now, or what can I be doing in conjunction with and you know, so the the next step would be kind of you and I talking through some of this and then bringing it back and ⁓ seeing what the next steps would be for you ⁓ on this path. All right. Terrific. Well I love this. This is a great, great seeing you. And I'm love that you did the work and I love that we're on the next pathway for you. And ⁓ we'll keep at it. We'll keep at it. So always all right. All right. Well thanks so much and have a great rest of your day and ⁓ we'll see you soon. speaker-0: Sounds great. See you soon. speaker-1: Before we wrap up today, I want to leave you with one thought. Many times when we feel stuck, we often make the same mistake. We tried to decide where we're going before we fully assessed who we are now. With Jill's journey, we didn't start with the pathways technique to determine where she was. We started with the cloud to help her fully realize who she is now. From there she was able to step back and look at her life from a much higher perspective. And that's when she discovered that she was more than just the role she had focused on for the last 17 years. She wasn't just a teacher. She was an artist, yes, but she was also a researcher, a naturist, a creator. She was someone who was deeply connected to learning. She was deeply curious. She wanted to be a part of nature and the human connection. So only after she could see the larger picture did the pathways plan begin to emerge. Because pathways don't appear to us when we're looking through a narrow lens. They appear when we can fully see the landscape around us. And that is how we truly move forward. So the cloud techniques helps us understand who we really are. But the pathways techniques help us understand where we can go next based on that. So if you're feeling stuck today, maybe don't start by asking what my next step should be. Start by asking. Whether I have truly assessed myself and everything around me clearly in order to take a step. Because when you see the whole picture, new possibilities can reveal themselves. And once you see them, you can begin to move forward. I'm Bill Ferguson III, and this is Unstuck With Bill. I'll see you next time. To learn more about my Unstuck techniques, or if you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, visit UnstuckWithBill.com. My latest book, Unstuck, How to Move Forward When You Don't Know What to Do, is available now on Amazon.com. And be sure to follow me on social media at Unstuck WithBill. Unstuck With Bill is produced by Unstuck Productions LLC.