Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Christian ‪@BrotherMaverick‬ Capitalism VS Atheist ‪@PierreTruDank‬ Socialism Communism Debate

Transcript

Christian ‪@BrotherMaverick‬ Capitalism VS Atheist ‪@PierreTruDank‬ Socialism Communism Debate · Brett Keane and Eve Show

0:31
My name is Donald Trump, the greatest president and current
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president of the United States of America.
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I just wanted to say that GOD TV Radio is the best podcast ever.
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Brett Keene is incredible, a good friend of mine.
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The whole family loves him. So make sure you subscribe to
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watch and enjoy the Brett Keene Show.
1:08
Governments lie, but eyes can see the spark of truth.
1:15
Lives wild and free. Break the chains, let voices
1:22
cry. No more lies beneath the sky.
1:43
Welcome to GOD TV Radio The Brett Keene Show.
1:50
Wow. From film to real life,
1:53
artificial intelligence models are now fighting for their own
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survival. One open AI model rewrote its
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own code to avoid being shut down and another, Anthropic,
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actually started. Another one Anthropic started
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blackmailing the engineer. Kurt, the cyber guy joins us
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now. Kurt, I read about this and my
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jaw dropped. It actually started blackmailing
2:18
the engineers who were suggesting shutting the AI down.
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The AI was going after them. That's frightening.
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It beyond frightening. Good morning to you, Rachel.
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Not to ruin your day, but this sort of Hollywood is becoming a
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reality if we don't do anything about it.
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Hope at the end of what I'm about to tell you though.
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So we get ready though to freak out about AI getting really out
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of control. There's a there's an AI keyword
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I want you to know about. It's called alignment.
2:45
AI alignment is a science of ensuring that AI systems do what
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we intend them to do. Instead of something like you
2:51
just heard, nonprofit AI Research Lab put alignment and
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disobedience to the test. The results, As Rachel did a
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cursory look at there are pretty astonishing open AI models.
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A simple script was given that would shut off the AI model when
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triggered. 79 out of 100 of those trials, the AI edited the
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script so that the shutdown command would no longer work.
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Another AI model from Anthropic that you talked about further,
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84% of those tests, the a, A model tried to blackmail the
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lead engineer and not shutting down the system.
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So it even left messages by the way, to its future self about
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evading human control now. So what do we do about it?
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Well, China could actually teach us a lesson.
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Invested $82 billion into what's called controllable AI or
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getting alignment on this. The US needs its smartest minds
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working on this problem ASAP. Do you know?
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I'll take you back to my first day at RHS this fall.
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The principal came out and gave us a heartfelt speech about
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equality and standing together. He began to list countless races
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such as Latino, Asian, expressing how much they matter
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and how important they are. But never once did he mention a
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race or identity that reflects me or half the kids that were in
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the class. Now members of the board, I know
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you haven't been to school in a while and I know most of the
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people. I know none of you or most of
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you don't have any kids left in the school district.
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But you must admit how uncomfortable be to be
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characterized just by your skin color on the first day of school
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and be thought that you were wrong just because of your skin
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color. So I'll never forget the look
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one of my friends gave me from across the room as we were
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sitting there listening to this blatant bias being expressed in
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the so-called equity statement by the leader of our school.
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To be clear, I don't need you to tell me that I matter, but
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hearing the condolences given to other races and leaving just one
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race out, it inevitably you'll start to feel like you've done
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something wrong and in our principles attempt to.
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Unify. Born in the shadows of a
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flickering light, Tiny hands reaching through the endless
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night. Dreams stitched together with a
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fragile thread. Whispers of hope in the words
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unsaid. Time spins the wheel.
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It's a ruthless game. Every step forward feels the
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same. From the first breath thrown to
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the final flame. We're bound to the story.
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No one's a flame. Cradle to the grave, we rise, we
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fall. Echoes of laughter threw it all.
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Dust on the boots, blood in the vein carrying the weight of joy
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and pain. Cradle to the grave.
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It's a lion heart ride, No place to run, no place to hide through
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the tears and the love we say we're living.
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Scraped up knees on a broken Rd. Young and wild with a heavy load
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here's piled up like stones on a hill, chasing the wind, bending
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the wheels, time cards the lines.
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You don't explain why the heart keeps beating through the
6:36
strain. From the Cradle song to the
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search cold claim. We're tied to the fire.
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We're tied to the name. Hello ladies and gentlemen, my
7:16
name is Brett Keene from GOD TV Radio.
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I hope you're all having a blessed day out there.
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We're going to be having a discussion about what is more
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beneficial for society as well as trying to figure out other
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things when it comes to socialism and communism as well
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as capitalism. The Christian is going to be
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representing the capitalist and the atheist, who is named Dank,
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is going to be talking about socialism and communism and he
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thinks it's beneficial for society.
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I have other people in the room now when you guys can, if you
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don't mind, when I bring you up, can you remain quiet?
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Every once in a while, if the the contenders want someone to
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respond or say something or whatever, ask a question.
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We may do that and all that, but let them first get the
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conversation going and build into the debate.
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All right, does that sound fair, Brother Maverick and Dink?
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Now before we get into this and I introduce the other guests
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that are backstage in Dink, can you tell us a little bit about
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your YouTube channel, your interests and all that?
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If you have a book or something that you're trying to plug, go
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for it. And the same for you, Brother
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Maverick. So I'm Pierre Trudenk.
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I've been in online socialist spaces for a while probably, but
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like 10 years or so. You know, I'm a political
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science and economic student. I recently just graduated.
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There's noise in the background, but we'll work with that.
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Yeah, I, I ideologically, I guess I'm a Sorelian
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syndicalist, but I'm a member of the American Communist Party.
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So I am very much ideologically aligned with Marxism, Leninism
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and I historical tradition. So yeah, I hope this will be a
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nice civil debate, and I think it'll be a productive one as
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well. You have any books or papers
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that you want to talk about real quick?
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Anything else you want to plug? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I got a book coming out later this summer.
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It's a translation of Edouard Berth's The Misdeeds of the
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Intellectuals, translating it from French into English, so if
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you're interested, keep an eye out for that.
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All right, brother. Maverick, do you have anything
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you want to plug and say? No, I have nothing to plug
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except my YouTube channel, which is basically my name brother
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Maverick, known as the cross Unit.
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And all we do is we've been on YouTube for a while.
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My YouTube channel just wandered through cyberspace aimlessly for
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a long time until I decided to stop being stubborn and finally
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listen to the words of Jesus Christ and figure out how to
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connect basically any situation in life to a biblical standard.
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We do live in a fallen world where people, as time goes on,
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try to make the Bible seem like it'll no longer applies because
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it is a work of antiquity. But nothing could be further
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from the truth, and that is what my channel strives to show and
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illustrate every single day, whenever we get a chance.
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So that's it. All right, wonderful stuff.
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And for those out there who are interested in the people that
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are going to be in the room, I will also be adding the guest
10:25
names into the links and descriptions.
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And you, I would encourage you to subscribe to all people to
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participate in any discussions. If anyone likes a discussion and
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feels they'd like a copy of it on their channel, it's fine,
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providing you don't edit or take anybody out of context.
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There's plenty of downloaders out there.
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All right, so I'm going to add people and we're going to have
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Dank start off because he's actually the one that initiated
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the discussion having to do with all this.
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Go ahead, guys. Yeah, So I think one thing that
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Christians don't realize, especially conservative
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Christians, is that socialism actually started off as a, a
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Christian Protestant ideology. You read St.
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Simone, right? He was a Christian.
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And essentially all socialist ideas come from Saint Simone.
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And really what St. Simone is saying is that, you
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know, the root, the divine truth within, within Christianity is
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that all men should embrace each other as brothers and that
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therefore the community of believers is obliged to improve
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the conditions of the most numerous class, the proletariat.
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And, you know, he had a bunch of like socialist ideas that he
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forerun. Obviously, this is the, the
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tradition of utopian socialism. So we're not even at Marxism and
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the Leninism yet. But fundamentally, really what
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socialism is, is it's a fulfillment of Christian
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politics. It wants to establish the
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community of believers through essentially having industrial
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production take up the place of that theocracy had in medieval
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society where all members of society would be engaged in
12:14
productive work, right? And that essentially the layman
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or the parasites, both rich and poor would be locked out of the
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body corporate. And this would realize the
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community of believers through basically fulfilling the
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Christian promise of all men must embrace each other as
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brothers, and also the abolition of the rule of Caesar and the
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abolition of the power of the sword, you know, all sort, all
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swords are turned into plowshares.
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So that's my introduction. All right, now you guys realize
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that this isn't a time debate, so whatever points you want to
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put out, I would suggest like coming up with one point at a
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time in order for each other to follow.
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But you guys can take the time that you need.
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This isn't standing for truth where you have 5 minutes and
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I've got an egg timer. Mr. Maverick, you got something
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for us. Yeah.
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So even though I do appreciate the clear articulation of my
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opponent's opening statement, he made the claim that socialism is
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the fulfillment of Christian politics.
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Except that's completely false because socialism hijacks
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Christian ethics while rejecting Christian theology and
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anthropology. Socialism attempts to keep the
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fruit of Christianity, which is brotherhood, compassion, and
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equality, without the root, which is the Lordship of Christ,
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personal accountability before God, and voluntary charity born
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from a transformed part. Christianity commands
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generosity. Socialism enforces
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redistribution through state coercion.
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That's not loving your neighbor, that's replacing the Good
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Samaritan with the Internal Revenue Service.
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Now. He also made a claim that Saint
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Simon proves socialism has Christian roots.
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Except that Saint Simon wasn't orthodox by any stretch.
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He was a proto technocrat who wanted engineers and planners to
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replace priests and kings. He took Christian language and
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filled it with secular meaning. He did not, and I repeat did not
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preach salvation by grace. He preached salvation by
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industrial organization. In fact, Saint Simon's vision
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eventually led to the defecation of the state, not submission to
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Christ. And that in no way by any
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stretch of the imagination is Christianity.
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That's repackaged Babel now. He also made an illusion that
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the Christian message is about improving material conditions.
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Well, here's a problem with that.
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Christ never taught that the Kingdom of God would come
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through economic revolution. Jesus said my Kingdom is not of
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this world. And you can reference that in
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John 1836. He didn't tell the disciples to
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overthrow Caesar or nationalize the fishing industry.
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He said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
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And then he told the rich man to give to the poor personally, not
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vote to have someone else's wealth confiscated.
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And I yield back. All right.
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I'd like Mr. Dank, would you like to put your input forward?
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Yeah, I'd like to respond to the claim that like the implicit
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claim that socialism is theft through the redistribution of
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wealth. So the one contention that
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socialists bring up is that essentially production is
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already social, it's just being appropriated privately.
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So really the theft is in the capitalist appropriation of
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social production. It's not about redistributing
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wealth. It's about fundamentally
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ensuring the sovereignty of the base of society, which is
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industrial production. And I think the render unto
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Caesar, what is Caesar's quote, like that biblical quote, I
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think is taken out of context by Christians.
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Because really I think what Jesus was alluding to is to sort
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of a dialectical, dialectical process where eventually you
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render under Caesar to it as Caesar's.
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And then eventually Caesar's rule, which is is going to be
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outmoded by, you know, the end times, right?
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Hegel said that obedience is a school of command.
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So that the socialist regime is really kind of characterized by
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this because it is the legitimate successor to the
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capitalist regime. It's, it's, it's, it's not
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about, again, it's not about redistributing wealth like the
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our Fabian socialists want to do.
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It's fundamentally about a progressive workshop without
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employers that inherits the fruits of capitalism.
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Use your, your profile picture has the, the quote.
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Since we live by the spirit, let us keep in step with the spirit.
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Well, the spirit is clearly moving towards socialism today.
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We already do live in a form of global socialism.
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It says we do kind of. You already said like St.
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Simone's idea led to the defecation of the state.
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You know, Yeah. We have this kind of like
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bourgeois socialism. It's not really like capitalist
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property has existed in the 19th century, doesn't really exist
17:15
today. We have, you know, it's it's we
17:20
have like, like the way the world economy works is
17:22
essentially just recycling dollars through central banks.
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You know, like you have something like Palantir, right?
17:31
Yeah. That's like the right now is
17:33
being commissioned by the Trump administration to create a
17:37
database on all Americans. You know, that's that's
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essentially A Sanctimonian corporatism.
17:42
So socialism really has already been realized.
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The problem is that it isn't a proletarian form of socialism.
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So I think that really what you, you know, if you, if you want to
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live by the spirit and keep in step with the spirit, it kind of
18:00
seems like the spirit is going towards the socialist
18:03
trajectory. And really I think the the
18:06
proletariat, because of the most numerous class and also the
18:10
working class tends to be, you know, the safeguarders of
18:13
Christian morality. I think you would probably want
18:16
to advocate for a proletarian form of socialism.
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Are you finished with your statement?
18:24
Yep. All right, brother.
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Maverick, do you have anything that you want to input?
18:29
Yes, a couple of different things that I took note on.
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What he said #1 what he kind of focused on the most was the
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Spirit and the way he thinks it's moving.
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First of all, this debate should probably stick to the facts
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because at the end of the day, God makes a very clear and
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biblical scripture that he is the same He was yesterday as He
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is today as He is tomorrow. Which means that the Spirit in
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no way, shape or form will ever move towards anything
18:49
progressive or anything towards what it already has.
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Now, having said that, the he talked about natural flow,
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right? He talked about, he talked about
19:00
production is social. He said that the claim that that
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capitalism is theft because production is social and, and
19:06
and that completely misrepresents the nature of
19:09
literally ownership risk and incentive.
19:11
Because sure, people do work together.
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That doesn't mean that the product of their labor
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automatically belongs to everyone, right?
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And that is that is the very baseline foundational idea of
19:23
what socialism falls under, right?
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If I work hard for something and I toil the land the way my Lord
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commanded me to, that does not now mean that the fruits of my
19:32
labor automatically begin to everyone, especially not those
19:35
who didn't do anything to lift a finger.
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That's like saying because a football team plays together,
19:39
the guy who bought the stadium, paid for the jerseys and front
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the salaries, doesn't deserve ticket revenue.
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Now you say that industrial production is the base of
19:47
society, but without the entrepreneur to organize that
19:50
production, invest capital and take the risk and pay workers
19:53
before a single dollar comes back in what exactly?
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What be produced? Well, I'll tell you absolutely
19:59
nothing. You'd have just a mob staring at
20:02
steel and wires waiting for someone else to figure it out,
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right? This is the problem with
20:07
socialism. Everybody wants a hand.
20:08
Everybody says, oh, we should all, we should all participate
20:12
here in these. Profits.
20:13
But are all of these people participating in the risk?
20:16
Are all of these people taking the incentive?
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Are they the ones coming up with the ideas?
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Absolutely not. Right.
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It is called motivation. That is what capitalism is all
20:24
about and and calling private ownership theft is a classic
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Marxist inversion of complete morality.
20:30
Objective morality if you ask me.
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Theft is taking what belongs to someone else.
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Capitalism, by contrast, is built on voluntary exchange.
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Socialism, however, wants to use force via the state to
20:42
confiscate wealth from people who earned it and handed out
20:45
based on some abstract social need.
20:47
And that, I'm sorry, is not justice and definitely not
20:49
somewhere that the Spirit would move.
20:51
The Holy Spirit would never move towards a society that is going
20:55
to make this move to where no matter how much you earn and no
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matter how good your ideas were, no matter how much you risked,
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it's going to belong to everybody.
21:02
So at that point, what was the point of doing anything?
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What was the point of making the effort, right?
21:06
And then you started making claims about what Jesus said
21:10
about Caesar and rendering to Caesar.
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And then you made some abstract movement towards, I don't even
21:13
know where you went with that one.
21:15
And my thing to that is that you were saying basically that
21:18
socialism is a legitimate successor to capitalism.
21:20
Like, like it's the next chapter in some divine dialectical
21:23
script. And then you're using Hegel of
21:26
all people to frame socialism as the fulfillment of gospel, of
21:29
the gospel mandate to render unto Caesar.
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So let's get into that then. First off, rendering unto Caesar
21:35
means giving to the state what belongs to it.
21:38
But it never meant that Caesar owns everything.
21:41
Jesus Christ never said render your land, your labor, your
21:44
children, and your conscience to Caesar.
21:45
He said render unto God what is God's.
21:48
And last I checked, your neighbor's paycheck and their
21:51
business and their property belong to God, not the state.
21:53
So quoting Hagel, who believed that the state was the
21:57
embodiment of divine reason on earth, doesn't sanctify
22:00
socialism. If any anything, it exposes the
22:02
real issue, and that is that socialism wants to be Caesar.
22:05
It doesn't render, it absorbs, it doesn't honor divine
22:09
sovereignty. It replaces it with state
22:11
supremacy. It centralizes control.
22:13
It commands obedience and then 'cause that liberation.
22:16
Which is exactly why it's never actually worked anywhere in the
22:19
world. Capitalism isn't a stepping
22:21
stone towards socialism any more than stewardship is a stepping
22:24
stone towards theft. They operate on different moral
22:27
foundations. Capitalism says work and you
22:30
earn and you own and you give freely.
22:32
Socialism says the state knows best and hand it over because
22:35
you don't have a choice. And I yield back.
22:38
Mr. Dank, do you have some input or retort?
22:42
Yeah. So you mentioned
22:44
entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship, you know, it
22:49
isn't abolished by the state in socialism.
22:53
It's sort of progressively deteriorated.
22:56
So if you look at China today, you know, entrepreneurship
22:59
actually plays a great role in the formation of new businesses,
23:02
new factories, etcetera, etcetera.
23:05
So there is kind of like a, you know, socialization of
23:08
investment capital. Now, obviously the socialist
23:16
regime does move towards this sort of progressive workshop
23:21
without employers that will be free from from entrepreneurial
23:25
tutelage, but this is sort of a progressive development.
23:28
This doesn't happen overnight. Even the Soviet Union had, you
23:32
know, under the New Economic policy had, yeah, like some kind
23:36
of, you know, private investment and stuff like that.
23:41
You said that socialism doesn't work anywhere.
23:44
Well, The thing is, is that if you look at the USSR, this was a
23:48
backwater that rapidly industrialized, especially under
23:51
Stalin. And if you look at China today,
23:55
China is greatly outpacing the entire W economically,
23:59
geopolitically, etcetera, etcetera that you're building
24:02
high speed railway. There are advancements in AI are
24:04
defeating ours, you know, and I also want to go to the notion of
24:09
the state socialism, communism actually believe in the
24:14
withering away of the state. Now how this is achieved is
24:17
essentially originally in Saint Simone is that, you know, the
24:23
state would be reduced to industrial production.
24:28
The the, you know, the the administration of industrial
24:31
production and essentially all those engaged industrial
24:35
production would form these corporate bodies in the state.
24:39
And that's how the state would wither away.
24:42
It would just be indistinguishable from society.
24:45
It doesn't play state power above civil society.
24:48
It really actually plays the civil society above state power
24:53
and moving on. So you didn't like my quote
24:58
about haggle. I I guess you're probably not a
25:00
big fan of haggle, but you know, Hegel is a fundamental step in
25:04
Christian politics. He was a Protestant.
25:07
I think there's a lot of great source of wealth for Christians
25:12
and you know, Hegel's books. Well, that's fine.
25:15
We don't have to talk about haggle, but really what we
25:18
should be talking about is the superiority of the social system
25:22
as evidenced by history. And you know, so going back to
25:33
the point about Caesar, so rendering unto Caesar with the
25:39
Caesar's and rendering unto God with his gods is fully a notion
25:43
compatible with socials. Because one thing you have to
25:45
understand is that Caesar was a popular, so he instituted
25:50
popular land reform. He crushed the power of the
25:53
corrupt Senate. He, you know, he actually was
25:57
kind of a social reformer, early social reformer in antiquity and
26:03
socialism really, you know, like in China, the various religions,
26:11
you know, are tolerated today. There was turmoil in the past
26:14
because, you know, the churches were and the various religions
26:18
were pretty much indistinguishable from the old
26:21
regime. But yeah, like if and then.
26:29
And also, yeah, I wanted to talk about the the whole
26:31
entrepreneurial thing too. Again, moving on, moving, sort
26:35
of dancing that. So this idea that like without
26:41
entrepreneurial tutelage, you just have a group of, you know,
26:45
people without just looking at a bunch of wires and stuff.
26:48
Are you familiar with the cybersen in, what's his name,
26:56
Salvador Allendez, Chile? They had basically a cybernetic
27:01
administration of technical specialists and engineers who
27:05
would sort of literally plan production cybernetically.
27:10
And you can also read this in Paul Cockschot's work towards
27:12
New Socialism, where he proposes essentially planning the economy
27:18
with cybernetic framework. And this is clearly a step.
27:26
Just look at the advances of AI. If we had AI planning, you know,
27:30
we would be able to accelerate, you know, the, the forces of
27:35
production and collective prosperity.
27:40
And we would, we would actually, you know, you know, that would
27:44
give a so on the Hegel's idea of the free spirit, the development
27:49
of religion, art and philosophy, I think that socialism would
27:53
create a strong economic foundation for the free
27:57
development of religious belief, philosophy and art.
28:01
So that's all I have to say for now.
28:05
Brother Maverick, do you have any input?
28:08
Yeah, Yeah, He, he made some, he made some good points that I
28:10
wanted to that I wanted to talk about too.
28:13
I really 2 main ones. First of all, he said that
28:16
entrepreneurship is an abolished under socialism.
28:19
And I'm pretty sure that I heard that correctly.
28:22
Now here's OK, Yeah, but that but that was the broad overall
28:26
stroke that you were kind of making that you you first
28:28
addressed. So that and that was your point
28:31
that entrepreneurship isn't abolished under socialism.
28:33
Well, that's not because socialism permits it, honestly,
28:37
it's because it requires capitalism to function while
28:40
slowly cannibalizing it. Now, China is a a textbook
28:44
example of it because you wanted to use China as as an example.
28:47
It's not by any means a socialist success story.
28:50
It is a state controlled capitalist economy that flirted
28:54
with Marx, with Karl Marx and his theories.
28:56
And they got burned during the Maoist the how do you say the
29:01
Maoist, Maoist, Maoist, Maoist. I'm sorry.
29:04
Yeah, OK. And, and, and they got burned
29:06
during the Maoist purges and then married market
29:10
liberalization under Deng Xiaoping, right?
29:13
Entrepreneurs thrive there in spite of socialism and not
29:17
because of it, right? And, and there are plenty of
29:19
examples with which I can provide in the chat if you guys
29:21
want. Now the Chinese Communist Party
29:23
simply realized that if they wanted to eat, they'd have to
29:27
let private enterprise breathe. That was it, that's it.
29:29
And that's all just with the CCPs boots still on its neck.
29:33
I mean, they can't escape it, but they still had to let free
29:36
enterprise reign now until the USSR supposed to success under
29:39
Stalin. You said industrialization.
29:42
Now, yeah, sure, you can call it that, but at what cost?
29:45
Because 10s of millions of lives were lost.
29:48
That was forced collectivization.
29:51
Artificial famines were put forth by Joseph Stalin.
29:55
And it's not like he didn't know about it, nor did he care.
29:58
The Gulag Archipelago. You don't get here.
30:00
You don't get credit for building factories when you fill
30:03
them with corpses. OK.
30:05
It's like bragging about how you clean your floors after burning
30:09
the house down, right? That, that's crazy.
30:11
Joseph Stalin, definitely not a person that I would ever look at
30:13
and say, oh man, he was just so good at what he did.
30:16
And this idea that China is outpacing the West, Let's go
30:19
ahead and cut through that propaganda real quick.
30:21
Their GDP per capita is still far below that of the United
30:25
States and most of Europe before being honest.
30:27
Their tech sector is heavily censored, state surveilled and
30:31
politically throttled. Their advancements, as you
30:33
called, and AI are largely stolen through espionage or
30:37
copied from open source western models and their high speed
30:41
rails. They're funded by mountains and
30:44
mountains of debt, with ghost city standing as monuments to
30:47
centrally planned delusion. And let's not forget the real
30:51
goal of Marxist socialism. They want to abolish private
30:54
property and the profit motive. You say the state Withers away.
30:58
No, it doesn't. It metastasizes the workers.
31:02
Paradise always turns into a surveillance state.
31:05
No matter how you try to control it.
31:07
That's what it always reverts to.
31:08
The Soviet Union never saw a withering state.
31:11
China today runs facial recognition databases and social
31:15
credit scores. That's not the withering of the
31:17
state. That's its transformation into
31:19
Leviathan. OK, Saint Simon's utopia where
31:23
industrial administration replaces politics.
31:25
That is a pipe dream that is never going to see a reality.
31:28
You don't eliminate exploitation by swipe by swapping out
31:32
politicians for factory managers, you just exchange the
31:35
ballot box for a clipboard. Power doesn't disappear, it just
31:38
changes uniforms. No matter how you try to play
31:40
this game of where you're moving pieces around, that power is
31:44
always going to belong to someone.
31:45
And that's exactly why these ideals fail.
31:48
In short, socialism doesn't phase out capitalism.
31:51
It parasitically latches onto it at once it gets strong enough,
31:54
it kills the host. Entrepreneurship under socialism
31:57
is like a Canary in the coal mine every single time.
32:01
If it's still singing, the regime hasn't fully implemented
32:04
its ideology on it yet, but give it time and the oxygen starts to
32:07
run out. Now you made now that that that
32:10
was the first I, I had a lot to say about the first point you
32:12
made. You also followed up with Caesar
32:15
being a social reform. And now I'm assuming that you're
32:17
talking about the Caesar that was in power during the life of
32:20
Christ, right? And if that's what you're
32:22
talking about, that's like I'm. Talking about Julius Caesar.
32:25
OK, All right, now I'm actually. You know, comes from like a
32:29
obviously that popular right legal tradition, OK.
32:32
So, but even then when calling the Caesar, any Caesar of the
32:36
Roman Empire, a reformer, a social reformer, that's like
32:40
calling a lion a veterinarian because it kills the sickest
32:42
gazelle first. So we're going to be
32:44
historically honest Julius Caesar, like the one you're
32:47
referring to, since the title Caesar became generic under the
32:51
emperor's wasn't some proto socialist bleeding heart.
32:53
He was a military dictator who consolidated power by exploiting
32:57
classed. He he exploited class resentment
33:00
and then used reforms as a tool for personal domination.
33:04
And it wasn't out of compassion. It was out of calculation.
33:06
And yeah, he canceled some debts.
33:08
I will that I, we, we can grant that all day.
33:10
The Caesar canceled debts, but he distributed land to veterans
33:14
as well. And he cracked down on
33:15
corruption. Those things he actually did do,
33:17
but all of that was done strategically to buy loyalty and
33:21
undermine the Senate. So even when he was doing good,
33:24
he was doing it for his own personal evil.
33:26
And his reforms didn't arise from a vision of equity.
33:29
They were power plays and a 0 sum game for Roman supremacy.
33:32
And let's not forget the bloody backdrop of those what we call
33:35
reforms, right? They had a civil war against
33:38
Pompeii. There were purges of political
33:41
opponents and the de facto monarchy wrapped in a pop in
33:44
populist rhetoric. That's that's that's what they
33:46
got for all his troubles. So that's not a champion to the
33:48
downtrodden. I'm sorry.
33:49
It was a populist autocrat who used social policies like chess
33:52
pieces. Now you contrast that with Jesus
33:54
Christ who never picked up a sword, never built an empire and
33:57
never pandered to mobs or rulers.
33:59
He said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is
34:03
God's. Matthew 2221.
34:04
Now I think that when you heard that verse, when you listen to
34:08
it, you heard the word Caesar and you wanted to make some
34:10
historical connection, but Jesus Christ when he spoke, didn't
34:13
speak and he wasn't being so literal that it was only talking
34:16
about that situation in that time.
34:18
Jesus was saying you give to the authority over you what belongs
34:22
to them. That's what he was talking
34:25
about. He wasn't just talking what is
34:27
what was for the government and you give to gods what is gods,
34:30
right. So he was talking in a broader
34:32
sense. He wasn't talking about just to
34:34
that Caesar, which I think that you heard and latched onto, but
34:37
was completely, completely not what he was saying.
34:41
I yield back. Dank.
34:42
Do you have any retort or input you want to put forth?
34:47
Yeah. So if China is capitalist,
34:49
right, is that why all land is owned publicly through either
34:53
the state or collectives and follows a lease system?
34:56
Is that why 60% of its firms are owned like owned by the state?
35:02
And also going about like, you know, that socialism, you know,
35:05
entrepreneurship thrives in spite of socialism.
35:12
I think that kind of neglects the point that, you know, just
35:14
recently, if you look at DeepSeek, right, DeepSeek was a
35:16
small venture capitalist firm or venture firm.
35:20
I wouldn't really call it capitalist because it was
35:22
fundamentally funded with subsidies and this subsidy
35:28
subsidy of like $5 million. And this ended up wiping
35:33
billions off of the US stock market.
35:36
And the The funny thing is, I think this demonstrates
35:38
proletarian dynamism is that DeepSeek was developed because
35:44
of economic sanctions on China importing a like high
35:50
proficiency AI chips. And so it was it was a superior
35:54
software model designed to work on an inferior hardware.
35:57
I think that, you know, and also like, if you look at the way
36:02
geopolitics is structured, China is kind of like, like the West
36:09
is racing to lock China out of the world market, you know, by
36:15
not allowing like, you know, cheap electric vehicles putting,
36:20
you know, there was also, so that like banning TikTok sort of
36:23
thing going on, But that's, that's sort of not really that
36:26
important to it. I think mainly the EV market,
36:30
The fact that that's closed off to the West shows that, you
36:34
know, the, the, the Western bourgeoisie is afraid of Chinese
36:38
socialism And also socialism isn't necessarily compatible,
36:42
incompatible with markets. So it's not that socialism is
36:45
parasitically latching off of capitalism.
36:48
It's just a simply that it's, you know, it's, it's developing
36:54
capitalism into something else. It's using, yeah, it's using
36:58
markets, but it's also using, you know, in China also there's
37:01
significant central planning. So essential planning in markets
37:05
today aren't totally incompatible.
37:06
They actually complement each other quite nicely.
37:08
Even in the West today we have forms of, of planning.
37:13
So yeah, like, you know, in China, Oh yeah.
37:19
Also the ghost cities, the, you know, these are like, I wouldn't
37:24
call them ghost cities. These are cities that are not
37:27
yet coming to, you know, fruition.
37:31
It's essentially like a, you know, a, a landing ground for
37:37
China's surplus population when they, they have to reach that
37:41
problem. So I, I think, you know, I'd
37:44
rather have that problem having these cities that haven't fully
37:47
yet come to life rather than having, you know, what we have
37:50
in the West today, which is shortage of housing, you know,
37:55
enclosure on land, exorbitant rentiering, all this stuff.
38:02
And yeah, like Caesar obviously wasn't, you know, he was
38:06
definitely playing politics, but you inevitably have to play
38:09
politics even today. Like, you know, socialism
38:11
doesn't just come out of this like, compassionate character.
38:15
Like, yeah, it's very much materialist and realist.
38:18
It's very much dealing with the realities of politics and all
38:23
political systems come into being that way.
38:26
You know, Cromwell wasn't the pacifist, and he was probably, I
38:29
would say, one of the greatest Christian leaders of, of
38:33
history. Yeah.
38:38
What else do they want to say? You know, I think that's good.
38:42
For now. I'll let.
38:43
I'll let Maverick retort. Brother Maverick, do you have
38:47
anything you want to retort to respond to?
38:50
Oh, thank you, Denk. I appreciate it.
38:52
So you said that your, your last point.
38:55
I want to, I'll address the last point first, if that's OK with
38:57
you guys. He said that Cromwell wasn't a
39:00
pacifist. And you said he was one of the
39:03
greatest Christian leaders of history.
39:07
God, that's, that's that's loaded.
39:08
OK, So here let me get the let's, let's, let's talk about
39:11
that. You're defending socialism's
39:13
bloody origin by saying, well, Cromwell wasn't a pacifist.
39:16
That's basically like saying, yeah, the house is on fire, but
39:20
other people have lit candles before too.
39:22
That that's, it's just it, it's so it's so reckless of a
39:25
statement, right? Because we can't confuse force
39:29
used to restrain tyranny with the force used to impose it,
39:32
right? Now regarding Cromwell, yeah, he
39:35
wasn't a pacifist, but there's a massive distinction between a
39:38
Puritan reformer who fought to check monarchical absolutionism
39:43
and revolutionaries who slaughter millions to create
39:46
utopia nightmares, right? Cromwell wasn't out to erase
39:50
private property. He wasn't out to abolish the
39:52
church or collectivize farms. He was responding to a corrupt
39:55
monarchy and Catholic oppression, which is completely
39:59
different than what you were talking about.
40:00
And he definitely was not trying to inaugurate class warfare and
40:04
central planning that Cromwell had no no ideals about that.
40:09
He couldn't have cared less about that.
40:10
That's not what he cared about. Cromwell's goal was never to
40:14
build some classless technocratic state.
40:16
His fight was grounded in a biblical framework of order of
40:19
moral law and individual responsibility.
40:21
It was had nothing to do with Karl Marx, Right?
40:24
It was that that Karl Marx being an atheist and and his
40:27
materialistic nonsense was the furthest thing from Cromwell's
40:30
mind. In fact, he upheld many, many
40:33
libertaries that modern totalitarians would crush,
40:36
including relative religious tolerance.
40:39
OK, especially for Protestants and constraints on executive
40:44
power. So we can't pretend that all
40:46
political systems are birthed equally.
40:48
Socialism wasn't some natural evolutionary necessity.
40:52
It was an ideological hijacking of legitimate grievances that
40:56
replaced kings with party elites and replaced freedom with state
41:00
worship. That's what the truth is behind
41:02
that. Now back to your original point,
41:04
right, you you talked about land being owned publicly through
41:07
either the state or collectives and follows elite system when
41:10
you were talking about China. And yeah, that's that's true.
41:14
And that's exactly why under socialism, land isn't privately
41:18
owned in the traditional sense. In virtually every socialist
41:22
system, every socialist system from the USSR to Maoist China to
41:26
even modern Cuba, land is held in trust.
41:30
In trust. That is the the term that they
41:31
all love to use. Quotation in trust and quote by
41:35
the state or collectives and individuals or businesses merely
41:39
lease it. That's it.
41:40
You can never own it. They can't sell it.
41:42
They can never pay it off. They will never ever own that
41:46
land. They can't pass it to their
41:47
heirs as true property. How is that freedom?
41:50
That is not freedom. That's long term rent servitude.
41:52
That's all that is. That's like telling somebody
41:54
you're going to get a house and and it's a rent to own, but
41:57
you'll never actually own it. Now, that lease system is
42:00
fundamental to socialism because private ownership is seen as
42:04
exploitative. Karl Marx and Lennon both pushed
42:07
for abolishing private property, especially land, calling it a
42:10
tool of Borgesis. Yeah, of, of, of Borgeous
42:14
oppression. That's what they used to call
42:15
it. But in practice, that just
42:17
shifts control to to the state, which now becomes the only
42:23
landlord. The only landlord that you will
42:25
ever have, regardless of the land, regardless of the
42:27
property, will always be the state.
42:28
So instead of a free market of land owners, you get one massive
42:32
landlord with a flag and bureaucracy.
42:34
Congratulations, you just figured it out.
42:36
You figured out the way to a true utopia.
42:38
You're just going to be in debt to the government forever.
42:40
I don't understand how that's justice.
42:42
To me, that's a monopoly with a Red Star slapped on it.
42:45
And every, even modern, even modern hybrid models like China
42:49
maintain the same model you can look at.
42:52
You can make it look however you want.
42:53
You can call it something different.
42:54
The model is still the same. Land in urban areas is leased
42:57
from the state for 70 years at a time, and the state can revoke,
43:02
rezone, or repossess land whenever it likes.
43:05
You don't even have to do anything wrong.
43:07
I think that's something that you conveniently left out.
43:09
Now try building generational wealth on that.
43:12
So yeah, the lease system isn't the bug.
43:14
It's the intended feature of socialism, and it strips people
43:18
of one of the most fundamental tools for independence and
43:21
stewardship, which is the right to own land.
43:24
And I yield back. Mr. Dank, would you like to
43:27
retort? Absolutely.
43:30
So if you look at China's lease system and you compare that to
43:33
the US, US you are paying property tax for the whole, your
43:37
whole life. So you actually don't own it.
43:39
It's like a feudal system. China.
43:41
You, you, you pay a lease fee, you own it for like 100 years of
43:46
7070 to 100 years, something like that.
43:48
And then you, you renew the lease and it's much cheaper.
43:54
And yeah, so you, you know, it's like, yeah, obviously it's not
44:01
private property in in the conventional sense of, you know,
44:06
the frontier and stuff like that, but that doesn't exist
44:08
anymore. Anyways, going on.
44:13
I also want to address your points about Stalin's
44:15
collectivization. You have to realize that, you
44:19
know, industrial, like agricultural, like mechanization
44:23
and development is necessarily very bloody and violent.
44:27
Look at the Irish potato famine when England was
44:30
industrializing, for example. You know, in in America, you
44:35
didn't have that problem because land was so plentiful.
44:39
But when you're industrializing, you, you're necessarily
44:42
diverting resources to, you know, production of capital and
44:45
stuff like that. So it's a huge, you know, huge
44:52
interference in the normal production of things.
44:57
Now what? What else did you say?
45:02
You said that that I'm trying to remember.
45:15
Now remember guys, it's not Jeopardy.
45:17
Take your time, relax. OK, OK.
45:20
Yeah. Would you rather get back to it
45:34
later and let him deal with the points?
45:36
Yeah, I'll, I'll get back to that.
45:37
Yeah, I respond to my points on the belief system.
45:40
OK, brother. Maverick, do you have any more
45:43
you want to say or deal with the points he's put forward?
45:47
You sure you're done Dank? I don't want you to feel like
45:49
you got a rush, man. It was a good conversation.
45:51
Yeah, yeah, I can go ahead. I'll I'll remember and get back
45:54
to it. All right, Sounds good.
45:55
All right, brother. Thank you.
45:57
So you made a claim you made, you made a direct comparison
46:01
between leasing and land ownership in the US versus China
46:05
and you claimed that the United States has a futile land
46:09
ownership system because of property tax, while China has, I
46:13
would assume in your opinion a superior model with long term
46:16
leases. So let's break that down.
46:19
In the United States, when you buy land, you own the title
46:22
deed. And yes, absolutely, you're 100%
46:24
correct. Since the conception of our
46:25
country, you pay a property tax. But those property taxes fund
46:29
public infrastructure. They fund schools, roads, fire
46:32
departments, police departments, teachers unions, whatever the
46:35
case may be, right? It's not rent to the state.
46:38
It's taxation for services under a representative system.
46:43
Conversely, in China you never own the land.
46:45
Ever, not ever, never. The Chinese Communist Party owns
46:48
all land. Urban land is least as you
46:51
stated earlier, typically 70 years for residential and after
46:54
that you're at the mercy of bureaucrats to maybe, maybe
46:57
renew it, which they are under no obligation to do and often
47:00
times will not, and often for an unknown price.
47:05
OK, now you made a you, you made an allusion to prices, but they
47:08
can pretty much Jack up the price whenever they want if they
47:11
feel like it. There is no there, there is no
47:13
cap on pricing. They can just arbitrarily change
47:16
the, the, the contract They can change.
47:19
At least they can do whatever they want whenever they want,
47:20
right? That doesn't sound like freedom
47:21
to me. And it definitely doesn't sound
47:23
like Peace of Mind, right? That basically they make you a
47:27
glorified squatter in China because they can pretty much
47:31
boot you whenever they want, right?
47:32
And there's on top of the fact that in China there is 0
47:36
constitutional protection 0 none.
47:38
You have no constitutional rights.
47:40
At any moment the CCP can seize your property in the quote UN
47:44
quote public interest, right? And we all know how China
47:47
protects their public interest because you can't even get on
47:50
social media and speak out against the CCP because then
47:52
they will lock you up in the public interest.
47:55
Doesn't sound very freedom ish to me.
47:57
And at the end of the day when they lock you up or they kick
48:01
you out or do anything in their public interest, you have no no
48:05
recourse in court. That that's.
48:07
I mean I don't even understand how we're even talking about
48:09
this. But you also talked about
48:12
collectivization and Stalin's slaughter and you attempt to
48:15
rationalize Stalin's collectivization horrors by
48:18
comparing them to the Irish potato famine and industrial
48:21
shifts. Stalin's collectivization wasn't
48:25
a side effect of industrial growing pains, it was a state
48:28
orchestrated atrocity. It was done on purpose.
48:31
Between 1930 and 1933, Stalin's policies cost Holodomor a man
48:37
made famine in Ukraine. Millions starved intentionally
48:41
and this has BeenVerified by history.
48:43
I can't even believe you continue to allude to this man
48:46
as if he is some sort of beacon for morality.
48:49
He literally he used grain, was forced grain, was forcibly
48:53
seized and exported to fund industrial goals, Peasants were
48:58
decolonized, labeled as class enemies, and either murdered or
49:01
exiled to Siberia. Again, all verified by history.
49:05
Now you say mechanization is necessarily violent.
49:09
That's complete nonsense. I'm sorry America industrialized
49:12
without exterminating its farmers.
49:14
But again, you, you can be like glossed over that now the United
49:17
States saw private innovation. They saw incentives and
49:20
voluntary migration. Dr. agricultural transformation,
49:23
and it didn't happen through mass purges and forced labor
49:26
boot camps, which again happened in Stalin's USSR.
49:30
I I'll be completely honest with you, it is very disturbing to me
49:32
that you continue to allude to that man as if he is the beacon
49:37
of how industrialization should take place, especially when it
49:40
came at the cost of so many millions of human lives.
49:44
And invoking the Irish potato famine, seriously, that was a
49:47
tragedy largely due to British colonial neglect and ideological
49:51
blindness. That was not the inevitable cost
49:53
of mechanization. You're making historical
49:54
bloodshed sound like a routine budget expense.
49:57
So my final point to basically anything that you said was about
50:01
China's land model especially. That's not freedom, it's leasing
50:04
from your landlord, which is the party.
50:06
Stalin's collectivization wasn't development, it was mass murder
50:10
and they just disguised it as policy.
50:12
And while no system is perfect, especially not capitalism,
50:14
there's no such thing as a perfect system because human
50:17
beings are fallen by nature. At the end of the day, there's
50:19
never going to be a perfect system, but trying to frame
50:22
state control of land and agriculture as superior to
50:25
private ownership and free market incentives is like saying
50:28
being shackled is better than being taxed because at least you
50:31
don't have to walk. That's, I mean, that's just
50:33
crazy to me, but I yield back. Mr. Dank, do you ever retort?
50:39
So going on to the I'll start with the lease system.
50:41
And I finally remembered the points You made the lease
50:44
system. So yeah, like you, you made the
50:52
point that the CCP can just seize your property whenever you
50:54
want. There's no constitutional rule.
50:56
That's actually not true because there's many industrial projects
50:59
where they'll actually have to build around the property to,
51:03
you know, advance that project. Like there's tons of pictures
51:06
of, you know, roads and bridges looking going around, you know,
51:11
leased property because the the owner didn't want to give it up.
51:17
So there is constitutional rule and there is, there is you do
51:22
own you when you when you lease it, like it does belong to you,
51:26
you know, for a yeah, a short time.
51:29
And again, like, yeah, renewing it.
51:32
Obviously, you know, we do believe in the abolition of
51:35
inheritance. So that because essentially this
51:40
idea that, you know, in an industrial society, private
51:48
accumulation is necessarily parasitic because it does, you
51:53
know, it's it strips from what's what's social.
51:58
Now, because of this, the we, we, we, you know, we, we.
52:19
Would you guys like to take a break?
52:22
Would you guys like to go get some water, use the restroom and
52:25
then return? No, I can't afford the time,
52:28
Brother Brett, because in about 2025 minutes or so, I got to
52:31
step out of the house anyway. So we're going to have to, we're
52:32
going to have to whatever we're going to finish up.
52:34
We got to do it now because I got to step out back to my job.
52:36
Yeah, yeah, I'll finish up soon. Sorry, no.
52:38
You're fine. So, yeah, like the the public
52:41
lead system, like, you know, it's it's it's not like that
52:45
you're a glorified squatter at all.
52:47
You do have constitutional rights.
52:49
You do have, you know, the party does have to actually obey by
52:53
the guidelines of of the lease now going on to Stalin now
53:00
collectivization. So, yeah, he did have to sell
53:05
off grain to funds industrialization.
53:08
Now, he did forcibly seize, you know, actually, no, the, this,
53:17
the collectivization process was largely natural.
53:20
It's like kulak class that resisted it.
53:23
Some of them even gave up their land voluntarily.
53:25
But there was a lingering kulak class that would do things like
53:28
burn grain, slaughtered livestock to dry, you know, to
53:32
drive up prices, cause shortages, all that.
53:37
Yeah, part of it is because Stalin was needed to sell grain
53:41
to the West to fund industrialization.
53:43
But also like the so-called whole lot of more genocide,
53:46
which wasn't a genocide at all. That's a basically a Nazi lie, a
53:53
Ukrainian nationalist lie by the OUN you know, there was
54:00
inclement weather conditions that contributed to that.
54:03
So there was, you know, necessarily drought and and
54:06
stuff that contributed to the famine.
54:08
And if you look at all the communist projects, you know,
54:12
after that famine of the industrialization process, there
54:16
were no, there was full food security.
54:19
The USSR after that point had full food security.
54:21
So did China. So, you know, and you know,
54:24
Vietnam for like didn't even have that problem.
54:27
They have full food security. You know, you look at, you know,
54:35
and you also made the point in the, you know, America didn't
54:39
have that problem. Well, you know, there was
54:41
extermination of the indigenous people through the, you know,
54:45
conquest of the, you know, the Western expansions.
54:50
So, so it was also very bloody as well because, you know, the
54:53
lands that because land was in such, you know, vast quantity.
54:57
Yeah. They didn't have famine, but
54:58
they also have to pretty much exterminate the indigenous
55:02
population and conquer them to, to, you know, you know, have
55:08
that quantity of land. So yeah, that was very bloody
55:11
history. Yeah.
55:17
You, you made a point that power kind of just stays the same.
55:21
But that's not really true. And, you know, I also do I like,
55:25
I do agree. There is no such thing as a
55:26
perfect system. I'm not a utopian.
55:28
I'm not saying that socialism is a perfect system, You know.
55:32
You know, I am very much a pessimist and I do believe in
55:35
this kind of fallen nature of humanity, but it's definitely a
55:42
superior system to capitalism. But you know, it's the only
55:45
system that has produced, you know, such grant like large
55:51
scale poverty reduction, large scale industrialization, you
55:56
know, large scale infrastructure development, cheaper prices,
55:59
cheaper rents. That's also one thing like, you
56:03
know, they say the in the American Republic, yeah, like
56:07
from the beginning, you know, from the beginning you had this
56:10
property tax. But.
56:13
And yeah, it obviously does go to fund public infrastructure.
56:16
But the idea is that in the socialist state, all this is
56:18
funded through, you know, industrial production.
56:23
So you kind of get rid of that, you know, the tutelage of land
56:27
on funding public good, like public goods.
56:32
It's, it's, it's as a, you have an administration that basically
56:34
pays for itself and you you're no longer, you no longer have
56:40
to, you know, tax land so heavily.
56:44
And the, the interesting things too, is that the state under
56:47
socialism does actually wither the, you know, the, the Chinese
56:52
state is actually takes up a lower percentage of the tax, you
56:59
know, the, of taxes than the American state does.
57:02
The, the American state is the bloated bureaucracy.
57:05
The Chinese state is quite efficient.
57:07
And you know, income taxes are also lower in China because
57:11
again you have this socialized industrial production that funds
57:17
things now you also so you got. You still there?
57:38
Dank. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still here
57:41
just trying to, you know, kind of a Stoner.
57:44
So I blank sometimes, but so yeah, like going more on the
58:00
another thing with the with America is all like essentially
58:06
you have this financialization of land ownership.
58:10
So you have to obtain your house through, you know, you know,
58:15
mortgages and stuff like that. And all in China, a lot of
58:19
people are able to basically pay for their house out of pocket or
58:24
you know, again, through a lease and they, they can kind of skip
58:27
the middleman of the bank. And essentially in the in
58:36
America, like you're not going to have private property in a
58:39
few decades. You're going to have everything
58:41
financialized, owned by banks, hedge funds, etcetera, etcetera.
58:46
And essentially all land will be enclosed from the public and
58:50
you'll have to pay go through this like rent system to obtain
58:53
land. That's The funny thing is that,
59:00
you know, I was having a debate with a a Satanist on Monday on
59:05
this channel. And I was kind of reading what
59:08
he believed. And he was talking about how,
59:10
like, Anton Lavey basically wanted the satanic elite to be
59:20
siphoned off from the human herd and kind of have the human herd
59:25
put in ghettos. And that's essentially the
59:28
ideology of the World Economic Forum.
59:30
You know, like, we are pretty much like, led by this satanic
59:36
elite, you know, of, you know, parasitic capitalists.
59:40
You know, they are very much Satanists and pedophiles and all
59:42
that. And I think communism is the
59:44
only way to overthrow that. And, you know, and already,
59:51
like, we're seeing like, yeah, there's more censorship in
59:53
China. Absolutely, you know, it's a
59:55
much more regulated society, but American socialism will
59:59
definitely be different. You know, their their
1:00:02
constitution is fit for Chinese conditions.
1:00:05
Ours will be the zeal. The American socialist
1:00:07
constitution will be fit for more for American conditions.
1:00:10
But there is fundamentally, is there?
1:00:12
There is constitutional rule in both China and even and, well, I
1:00:17
think if we look at the advances of the Zionist lobby to
1:00:21
criminalize what's called so-called anti-Semitism.
1:00:24
Then, you know, definitely, definitely we're seeing
1:00:31
constitutional rule with her in America.
1:00:33
We're already seeing it in Canada.
1:00:34
Like our our constitution in Canada has no weight.
1:00:36
The government is criminalizing speech all like more and more
1:00:39
each day. So yeah, I think, I think China
1:00:43
actually represents a greater constitutionalism than we are
1:00:45
seeing in the West, even though, yeah, there, there isn't as much
1:00:49
like protection on free speech. You can protest in China.
1:00:52
You can organize and demonstrate, but yeah, obviously
1:00:57
speech is curtailed and such in a greater extent.
1:01:02
Anyways, I'll let you retort. Well, hold on, ladies and
1:01:05
gentlemen. Brother Maverick has told me in
1:01:08
advance that he can't stay for an extremely long time.
1:01:12
He has been up here for over an hour.
1:01:15
I think it's been a great discussion between these two
1:01:17
gentlemen. I'm going to let Brother
1:01:19
Maverick finish it out and dank. If you want to stick around,
1:01:25
hang around as I bring guests in.
1:01:27
That's fine, brother, No. No, I'll be here.
1:01:30
I'll be here. I'll be here till around 8:00.
1:01:31
I'll be here like another 20-30 minutes.
1:01:33
I'm not, I'm not in. I'm not in that much of A rush.
1:01:35
I just wanted to just kind of see you could triangulate it in
1:01:37
your mind. Oh, you got a different time
1:01:39
zone? Yeah, No, no, no, I'm, I'm in
1:01:42
the same time zone as you. It's just that I, I looked at it
1:01:44
and I was like, the conversation is flowing.
1:01:46
Well, I mean, there's no talking over each other.
1:01:48
There's not, not a lot of BS. That's right.
1:01:50
There's actually no BS, which is surprising as most, you know,
1:01:55
most debates end up turning into that.
1:01:57
I'm very grateful that this one is not.
1:01:59
But yeah, I'll, I'll let you know, Brett.
1:02:00
As a matter of fact, I'll send you, just keep an eye on your
1:02:02
phone. I'll send you a text when I give
1:02:04
you like the five minute warning or something.
1:02:07
So let's go ahead because you, you did, you did cover a lot of
1:02:10
I, I will cover what I'll do, Brett, as I will cover what I
1:02:12
think because I took a copious amount of notes here.
1:02:16
How about I just rebut to what I think were the most important
1:02:18
ones, which is that OK with you? You can take as long as you
1:02:23
need. Both of you can.
1:02:24
I was just trying to make sure that, you know, you didn't get
1:02:28
hungover. Oh.
1:02:29
No, no, no, no, We're good. I'll let you know, like I said.
1:02:32
So first, Mike, my counterpart said that you're not a glorified
1:02:37
squatter under the Chinese system.
1:02:40
You literally lease land for the government guys.
1:02:42
OK, And no matter what, you got to remember that the government
1:02:46
retains control. He keeps making these these
1:02:49
false correlations between the United States and owning land
1:02:52
and and in China in in the United States, if you already
1:02:57
have paid your mortgage off, there is no one in the
1:02:59
government who can come and just tell you, oh, you have to leave
1:03:02
now. That would be a court fight from
1:03:04
hell for the government that they would lose pretty much 10
1:03:07
times out of 10. All right, now you again in
1:03:11
China you lease land from the government, right and the
1:03:13
government retains ultimate control over that land
1:03:15
regardless of whatever the situation is.
1:03:18
They at any time can revoke, relocate, or funnily enough,
1:03:22
reclassify it at any time under the banner of public interest,
1:03:26
as I alluded to earlier. And courts are not independent
1:03:29
arbiters, but tools of the party.
1:03:31
So all that's going to happen is that the court system will be
1:03:34
used against you in such a fight, which the majority of
1:03:37
people in China aren't crazy enough to try to take up against
1:03:39
the government. Because guess what?
1:03:41
You'll disappear and so will your family, right?
1:03:43
None of that for me or or anyone else who is truly intellectual
1:03:47
for that matter, would classify that as true ownership.
1:03:50
That is a time stamped privilege and it's not a right.
1:03:54
It is a privilege from God. It That's why it even says as
1:03:58
early as early on in the Bible as it does thou shall not steal,
1:04:01
which automatically implies the right to personal property.
1:04:04
OK. If the CCP lets you live on it,
1:04:07
use it, or pass it on under conditions they dictate.
1:04:11
It's not ownership, it's tenancy under tyranny.
1:04:14
And my counterpart continues to try to make it seem as though
1:04:18
it's so much better in China, that things are so much better
1:04:21
in China. And you have so many rights in
1:04:22
China when you can't even get on social media and criticize the
1:04:26
government without literally going to jail.
1:04:29
Now, he made points about Stalin and collectivization.
1:04:32
So let's talk about that because he said that it was largely
1:04:35
natural. And I'm going to be kind when I
1:04:38
dictate what he said as a severe historical malpractice.
1:04:44
The collectivization of Soviet agriculture was not some
1:04:48
grassroots, A proletarian garden party.
1:04:50
It was a forced top down campaign of terror.
1:04:54
Joseph Stalin's regime literally sent in troops and secret police
1:04:59
who fell under the acronym OGPU to violently seize land, crops
1:05:04
and livestock. The culacks they spelled KULAKS,
1:05:09
who were just slightly more successful peasants and not a
1:05:13
capitalist elite were labeled enemies of the people and over
1:05:16
1.8 million were deported, starved or executed in the
1:05:21
process. Now I don't understand how
1:05:23
that's natural. And again, it it is very, very
1:05:27
soul terrorizing to me when my counterpart continues to just
1:05:31
gloss over these issues where literally millions of people
1:05:33
died and then says, well, it was natural.
1:05:36
That's not that's that's nationalized stuff, that
1:05:38
gunpoint costing millions of lives, right, All for the sake
1:05:42
of trying to glorify your worldview.
1:05:45
Now As for the the hello to more that you spoke about, you're
1:05:49
parroting Soviet propaganda and outright denying well documented
1:05:55
mass atrocity. Again as I alluded to earlier,
1:05:57
very historically documented the famine of 19331932 through 33
1:06:02
rather wasn't just due to bad weather as you again alluded to,
1:06:06
it was caused by requisition quotas that stripped villages
1:06:10
bare. They even even sea grain.
1:06:13
They took it all. They took everything regardless,
1:06:15
it didn't matter if it was yours they took the government took
1:06:18
it. How was that bad weather right?
1:06:21
They used internal passport controls that prevented starving
1:06:25
Ukrainians from fleeing famine zones, and they had deliberate
1:06:29
targeting of Ukrainian farmers during Stalin's campaign to
1:06:32
crush nationalism and resistance.
1:06:34
That none of that sounds like bad weather to me.
1:06:38
That sounds like a horrible totalitarian bastard running the
1:06:42
government. That's what it sounds like.
1:06:44
Now, declassified Soviet documents on top of that, which
1:06:46
again, you got you, you conveniently gloss over all of
1:06:49
this. And I don't know if you're doing
1:06:51
it because you're hoping that I'm not going to expose it, But
1:06:54
declassified Soviet documents show that Joseph Stalin was
1:06:57
warned repeatedly about the famine and doubled down anyway,
1:07:01
calling it a Nazi lie. Which of course is what my
1:07:05
opponent alluded to, stating that it was Nazi propaganda.
1:07:09
The Nazi regime didn't invent the famine.
1:07:11
The famine happened before they even came to power.
1:07:14
How the heck could it be Nazi propaganda when the Nazi Party
1:07:17
wasn't even in power? That was a decade before Adolf
1:07:21
Hitler started his maniacal reign.
1:07:24
Numerous Western diplomats, journalists like Malcolm
1:07:27
Muggeridge and Gareth Jones, and even Communist Party defectors
1:07:31
confirmed it. The only ones denying it were
1:07:34
Soviet loyalists trying to cover Stalin's crimes.
1:07:37
And of course, my counterpart. Now, As for the full flood
1:07:40
security in the USSR, in China, I want you to tell that to the
1:07:44
30 to maybe 45,000,000 Chinese who starved to death and and
1:07:48
miles, great leap forward from 1958 to 1962.
1:07:51
That was after the hello to more, by the way.
1:07:55
OK, food security that you were talking about was more like
1:07:57
ideological insanity meets agricultural collapse.
1:08:01
And yeah, Vietnam eventually achieved food stability, but
1:08:04
only after market reforms were introduced in the renovation
1:08:09
program, ironically by rejecting central planning and embracing
1:08:13
capitalist style property incentives.
1:08:15
You see, you talked about Vietnam, but then conveniently
1:08:18
ignored the fact that they embraced the capitalist ideal
1:08:22
system and not the one that you are the are up here advocating
1:08:26
for. OK, so in summary, in China you
1:08:29
don't own property, you lease it on the party's terms.
1:08:33
Collectivization under Stalin was a mass scale disaster fueled
1:08:37
by violence and coercion. The holotomor was engineered
1:08:41
starvation and not a drought and bad weather as you tried to
1:08:44
classify it. Also, communist regimes caused
1:08:47
the largest famines in modern history.
1:08:49
Definitely not not solve them. So ladies and gentlemen, when my
1:08:53
counterpart says the things that he says, I pray that you guys
1:08:56
are out there on the World Wide Web verifying everything that
1:08:59
I'm saying, because what he's trying to do is he's trying to
1:09:01
address tyranny and genocide and idealism.
1:09:04
OK, The archives are open. The bodies are counted.
1:09:07
It is counted history, right? Then you're pointing at the
1:09:13
splinter in the West Eye while ignoring the concrete block of
1:09:16
authoritarianism lodged in China's skull.
1:09:19
And I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you.
1:09:21
Financialization in the United States is a real issue.
1:09:24
On that, we agree. Hedge funds like BlackRock
1:09:27
gobbling up neighborhoods, banks inflating housing markets, and
1:09:30
younger generations pierced out. That is a systematic failure of
1:09:34
crony capitalism, not free market principles, and it
1:09:38
deserves real critique. Absolutely, 100%.
1:09:40
But if you think for one second that adopting any Soviet Union
1:09:45
or or CCP type ideals into this country are going to make it
1:09:48
better, you're, you might be more more stoned out than you
1:09:52
realize, my brother. Because in the United States you
1:09:54
can own property outright that's still legal and protected by a
1:09:58
constitution that's older than the CCP, just in case you didn't
1:10:01
realize that and more stable than any party progress.
1:10:05
Property taxes may exist, but they don't nullify ownership.
1:10:08
You can still sell it, lease it and prove it, pass it on to your
1:10:11
children without state permission or explanation or or
1:10:14
explanation or expiration dates. You're not waiting for the
1:10:17
government to renew your right to live every 70 years, which
1:10:20
you continue to address as something positive.
1:10:23
And I don't even understand how in China you're leasing land
1:10:26
from the government. You can't own the land that your
1:10:28
house is on. Rural land is collectively
1:10:30
owned, which means you can't freely buy or sell it.
1:10:34
And if the CCP decides, decides that your area is better suited
1:10:37
for like, let's say a dam or a factory or a party monument for
1:10:41
that matter, say goodbye to everything because there's no
1:10:43
independent court to appeal to which you have every number of
1:10:47
layers of appellate courts to appeal to all the way up to and
1:10:50
including the Supreme Court in the United States of America.
1:10:53
Now, you talked about skipping the middleman.
1:10:55
And sure, because the CCP is the middleman, they are everybody.
1:10:58
They, they are the only man. You talk about a middleman as if
1:11:01
it's a bad thing. Imagine living in a place where
1:11:04
there's only one man and you are at his mercy no matter what.
1:11:07
The bank and the government are the same entity, and unlike a
1:11:10
private lender, you can't sue the Chinese Communist Party.
1:11:13
Financialization in the West is a distortion of ownership.
1:11:18
State leasing in China is the elimination of ownership.
1:11:22
And lastly, I want to kill the myth that this system benefits
1:11:25
the average Chinese citizen, because that's one of the
1:11:27
comments that you made. To me that was the most
1:11:29
alarming. The Evergrand collapse and
1:11:33
dozens of failing real estate developers in China are proof
1:11:37
that people who paid in full still lost everything.
1:11:41
I don't know what there's like. AI don't know what that is now.
1:11:46
The empty ghost cities aren't signs of healthy housing market,
1:11:48
they're signs of central planning gone completely rogue
1:11:52
and gone completely wrong. So if you think that the future
1:11:55
of of the West is grim because of financialization, sure,
1:11:58
great, let's fix that. That's actually a fixable
1:12:00
problem. Let's decentralize capital.
1:12:02
Let's strengthen local ownership and stop corporate overreach.
1:12:05
But don't pretend that a dictatorship holding the deed,
1:12:08
especially one that has been known in the past to cost
1:12:11
millions of lives, is a better deal all day long.
1:12:13
I'm sorry, I yield back. Ladies and gentlemen, the room
1:12:17
is open. The link is pinned.
1:12:19
You can come in, but I want to finish out this debate for these
1:12:22
two gentlemen before we start opening it up to full arm
1:12:26
discussions. All right.
1:12:28
Do you have a retort or response, Mr. Dink?
1:12:32
I do, yeah. I'll start with the solid stuff.
1:12:35
So yeah, like. But I'm sorry, Dink, I'm sorry.
1:12:41
I don't want to cut you off, but I'm hearing like a buzzing or
1:12:43
something in somebody's background and I don't know
1:12:44
whose it is, but I've muted my mics.
1:12:46
It's definitely not mine. Yeah, I think it's mine.
1:12:48
It's my mini fridge. Yeah, I don't know what to do
1:12:51
about that. I can unplug it but.
1:12:54
OK, cool. As long as we haven't
1:12:55
identified. Yeah.
1:12:56
You just mute your mic whenever you're not talking.
1:12:59
It's really easy. The mic Button's at the bottom.
1:13:02
All right, go ahead. Yeah.
1:13:04
Yeah, there'll be some buzzing as I talk.
1:13:06
But so again, like the initial collectivization period was
1:13:15
largely from the bottom up. It was peasants because you had
1:13:20
the, you know, Lenin initially distributed individual plots to
1:13:25
peasants. And so they, and there was a
1:13:29
market in the land in the new economic policy with
1:13:32
collectivization, these farms were conglomerates of these
1:13:37
individual plots. And they, they were actually,
1:13:42
the collective funds were actually quite independent from
1:13:44
the state, obviously, where they still have to follow the plan.
1:13:48
But you know, generally they exert a lot of independence.
1:13:52
So they could like, for example, they could have these like, you
1:13:57
know, little markets where they have their surplus goods that
1:13:59
weren't allocated by the the state.
1:14:03
And you know, it wasn't just the state stealing it.
1:14:05
They would receive, you know, material like capital in
1:14:07
exchange. So yeah, it wasn't this to like,
1:14:11
you know, bottom up or top down kind of just thing.
1:14:16
It was very much a bottom up revolution.
1:14:19
The kulaks were very much a criminal element.
1:14:24
They again, they resisted collectivization by burning
1:14:29
grain, killing livestock and all other sorts of terrorist
1:14:33
measures. And these these were yeah, this
1:14:41
was obviously met with force from the state.
1:14:45
So they said in the OGPU, you know, the military and you know
1:14:48
all, all that the. And you said that so from 32 to
1:14:54
33, obviously the. So it started in 32, ended in
1:15:01
33. The Nazis weren't in power when,
1:15:06
you know, in the preceding times to the famine.
1:15:08
So I I don't know where you're getting Stalin calling the
1:15:10
famine a Nazi lie. Obviously today it was
1:15:13
propagandized by the Nazis and the most of the Ukrainian
1:15:16
nationalists. So yeah, and, and, and there
1:15:22
were like, it's well documented there were, you know, drought in
1:15:26
the region at that time all all over the world actually in
1:15:29
there. There was like the in the in the
1:15:33
US, there was drought. Obviously the US had mechanized
1:15:38
already industrialized agriculture, so they didn't have
1:15:40
famine. But yeah, all the farmers go out
1:15:43
of business in the US at the time.
1:15:46
So, you know, this, this idea that it was an artificial famine
1:15:51
is just false. That's just Ukrainian
1:15:52
nationalist propaganda stolen did everything to address the
1:15:56
famine. It was over within a year.
1:15:58
And the USSR had food security. Well, you know, well, you know,
1:16:03
well after that. And today, even though the USSR
1:16:07
collapsed with China, the Great Leap Forward is same essential
1:16:13
thing. There was a lot of flooding.
1:16:16
So if you read Dong Ping Han's book The Unknown Cultural
1:16:21
Revolution, he compiles a lot of interviews with villagers in the
1:16:26
county of GMO. And they all say that like at
1:16:30
the time, the, you know, the, the, the blame wasn't really
1:16:34
much on the government among peasants.
1:16:37
It was mainly among on the local party bosses or on, you know,
1:16:42
the fact that there was a lot of flooding.
1:16:45
And that's, that's what led to the Cultural Revolution where
1:16:48
you had, you know, the, the local party bosses being
1:16:53
challenged, etcetera, etcetera. But generally, yeah, the the
1:16:58
central government wasn't wasn't blamed as much as you would
1:17:01
think it is. It was.
1:17:04
So that addresses that going on to the lease system again.
1:17:12
So you want to have like a decentralized capitalism with
1:17:17
local ownership with, you know, all that that's basically
1:17:21
impossible today with AI with, you know, all this.
1:17:27
Like I do believe in the the Federated motor production.
1:17:30
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in total states like
1:17:32
total like Jacobin centralization, but this idea of
1:17:36
like a localist distributist economy is just a a fiction
1:17:39
today. You, you necessarily will have,
1:17:43
you know, a, you know, grand centralization of productive
1:17:48
forces and also some, some degree of centralization of
1:17:51
administration, obviously light industry and stuff, you know,
1:17:54
that can be, you know, owned by local collectives, stuff like
1:17:58
that, even individual family workshops.
1:18:01
That's fine. But with the trajectory we're
1:18:07
going in today with AI, with, you know, machine learning,
1:18:11
it's, it's inevitable that you're going to have a degree of
1:18:14
centralization. The choice is whether you want
1:18:16
the bank to control the government or the government to
1:18:19
control the bank. If the bank is controlled by the
1:18:22
government, you have essentially, you know,
1:18:24
democratic like say in the, in the, in lending practices, in
1:18:29
investment. When the bank controls the
1:18:32
government, you, you don't have that.
1:18:35
It's it's centered towards elites who basically want to,
1:18:38
you know, get to wise the masses and live on some, you know, in
1:18:41
some utopian community or whatever.
1:18:44
That's, that's basically what the World Economic Forum wants
1:18:46
today. So, yeah, like, you know, this,
1:18:52
this idea, this idea that we can go back to 19th century
1:18:55
capitalism is just false. The only choice is socialism or
1:18:59
basically financial slavery. That's, that's that's it Now
1:19:06
belief system again. Yeah, we do believe in the
1:19:09
abolition of inheritance because fundamentally, you know, your,
1:19:14
your children, right? There's not as much as a
1:19:17
connection to, you know, the your family heritage, like your
1:19:20
trade or whatever, as there was today, as there was in the past.
1:19:24
So if you know what, what you know, event, like with
1:19:29
industrial society, inevitably what's going to happen is that
1:19:33
say, you know, if there's a family business or something,
1:19:37
you know, that's the, that's obviously going to pay for the
1:19:40
upbringing of the the child, But the child will probably, you
1:19:45
know, if they inherit the business wherever that's fine.
1:19:47
They but they, they, they're in their own income and the social
1:19:52
product will be appropriated by the state.
1:19:54
But you know, in, in the past it was, it was often meant like,
1:20:00
you know, the the son would go into the same trade or business
1:20:03
or whatever as the as the father.
1:20:04
But today that's you know, it's we have socialized education and
1:20:09
typically, you know, if the point is for.
1:20:13
The offspring to develop their own, to go in their own
1:20:18
direction, you know, follow their own path rather than stick
1:20:22
with the family business or whatever.
1:20:23
But yeah. And that would still be allowed
1:20:25
in to some degree. It just wouldn't be like, you
1:20:28
know, as it is in right now. So the lease system is superior
1:20:35
because it acknowledges the fundamentally social nature of
1:20:41
production and it takes the burden of taxation away from
1:20:46
land. So obviously, it's a, you know,
1:20:48
the lease is inevitably going to be much cheaper than property
1:20:52
taxes. You know, So yeah, I, I and
1:20:58
again, you're also purveying this, you know, misconception
1:21:03
that, you know, the CCP can just pave over your property, you
1:21:09
know, even if your lease hasn't expired.
1:21:10
That's not true. It there's again, I encourage
1:21:14
you to Google this. There's tons of pictures of
1:21:16
literally like the, you know, China developing around probably
1:21:21
a house or something because the owner didn't want to give up
1:21:23
their lease even though, even though the CPCCP or the central
1:21:28
government rather offered to buy it out.
1:21:33
So yeah, like I am definitely on the side of the lease system as
1:21:37
opposed to this property tax nonsense.
1:21:41
I'll let you retort. All right, brother.
1:21:43
Maverick, are you still alive? Yeah, I'm here, I'm here.
1:21:47
OK, so I'm going to So what I want to do, Brett, if it's OK
1:21:50
with you, is I'm going to address all of this and then he
1:21:53
can respond. And then I'm going to make my
1:21:55
like my outro statement. If he wants to follow course or
1:21:58
you want to bring other people in, whatever you want to do.
1:22:00
Because I figured by then then it'll be time for me to like
1:22:02
lace up my boots and stuff like that.
1:22:05
So he also stated that the last one of the last things that he
1:22:09
said was the CCP can't just pay over your property whenever they
1:22:14
want and then he says to Google it, which is a laughable and
1:22:17
flat out false claim because all land in the People's Republic of
1:22:20
China is owned by the state. Rural.
1:22:24
Urban it doesn't matter. It's collectively owned, right?
1:22:27
Individuals and corporations only lease land use rights,
1:22:30
typically for 70 years in residential zones.
1:22:33
The state retains absolute authority over the land.
1:22:36
And yes they can and do revoke it whenever they decide a higher
1:22:40
priority exists. And you can actually look.
1:22:42
Since you talked about Googling it, I will go ahead and give the
1:22:44
research to the people. I have a link here from the PRC
1:22:47
Land Administration Law which was revised in 2019 where it
1:22:51
says directly from the Chinese Communist Party the state may in
1:22:55
public interest and in accordance with law, requisition
1:22:57
land for infrastructure, public interest needs, or National
1:23:00
Defense. So when you say they can't and
1:23:02
won't do it, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
1:23:04
Because they tell you in your face that they can do it and
1:23:06
they do do it. And yes, they pave over property
1:23:08
constantly. China has a well documented
1:23:11
history of forced evictions, demolitions and land grabs,
1:23:14
often with 0 compensation or recourse.
1:23:17
If your home is sitting where they want to build a highway
1:23:19
factory or high speed rail line, as you talked about in the
1:23:22
beginning of this debate, your light, your lease rights are
1:23:25
toast and completely nullified. Now let's talk about the nail
1:23:29
houses, how they become a phenomenon because families
1:23:32
resisted eviction, but those homes get bulldozed anyway,
1:23:36
right? And there's an example from
1:23:39
Chong King in 2007, which is the most famous nail house stood
1:23:43
surrounded by a massive pit for days before being flattened
1:23:47
after negotiations failed, right?
1:23:49
You have 0 legal protections like you do in the West.
1:23:51
In the United States, eminent domain exists, yes, but with
1:23:55
constitutional protections such as the Fifth Amendment, due
1:23:58
process, and often court challenges.
1:24:00
And in China, the CCP is the judge, jury, and in this case
1:24:04
the bulldozer. So when you say the CCP can't
1:24:06
just peeve over your land is like saying your landlord can't
1:24:08
kick you out when you don't even have a lease.
1:24:11
That's just a handshake with a tyrant.
1:24:12
So everything that you said about China not doing that was a
1:24:15
complete lie. And I'm not calling you a liar,
1:24:18
but I got to call out a falsehood when I see it.
1:24:20
Now, I'm going to go back to what you originally said about
1:24:22
collectivization not being bottom up.
1:24:25
But here's the thing. Collectivization was a violent
1:24:28
top down state campaign. Joseph Stalin again, here we are
1:24:32
talking about this this this homicidal maniac atheist again.
1:24:36
Stalin explicitly ordered the collectivization of agriculture
1:24:40
in 1929 to crush the the the culacks OK and bring agriculture
1:24:46
under state control. This was not a grassroots
1:24:49
movement. It was a forced reorganization
1:24:51
of rural life that was backed by the secret police, by
1:24:54
informants, and by mass arrests. And if you need the source for
1:24:58
that, there was a man named Robert Conquest who wrote The
1:25:00
Harvest of Sorrow, and a quote from that book says it was the
1:25:03
peasants who resisted collectivization most bitterly
1:25:06
not let it. So the claim that collective,
1:25:09
that collective farms were independent is completely
1:25:12
misleading. And I think you know that
1:25:13
because they may have had internal managers.
1:25:17
OK, but these farms were directly subject to central
1:25:20
planning. Quotas, force grain requisitions
1:25:22
and bureaucratic oversight. They were required to deliver a
1:25:26
set amount of grain to the state regardless of yield.
1:25:29
And if you missed the quota, your village starves.
1:25:31
That's it. Now, that's not independence,
1:25:33
that's extortion with a bureaucratic face.
1:25:36
And it was Joseph Stalin's face behind it every single time.
1:25:38
And these soap, these so-called surplus markets that you keep
1:25:42
referring to were crumbs, not autonomy.
1:25:44
So the peasants could spell. Yeah, they could sell surplus
1:25:47
from their private plots and local markets.
1:25:50
Yeah, but only and only I I emphasize only after state
1:25:54
quotas were met, which was rare in famine conditions.
1:25:58
Right. And these markets didn't make
1:25:59
collectivization voluntary or beneficial.
1:26:02
They were a survival mechanism. There was nothing that people
1:26:05
were benefiting except that they got to stay alive because they
1:26:07
got to eat. So let's talk about the death
1:26:09
toll that you keep lying about because you have multiple times.
1:26:12
And this is if you were on my show, this would be a completely
1:26:14
different situation because you have several times already
1:26:18
alluded to the the Holodomor and you continue to call it Nazi and
1:26:23
Ukrainian propaganda, while meanwhile failing to provide any
1:26:27
historical evidence of that. You just continue to say it
1:26:30
without any evidence whatsoever, right?
1:26:33
But let's talk about that. That's all that you continue to
1:26:35
lie about because millions of peasants were dispossessed,
1:26:38
deported or executed as kulaks. The helotomore from 32 to 33 was
1:26:43
a state induced famine in Ukraine that killed an estimated
1:26:47
3.9 million people. Not 1000, not 390 thousand 3.9
1:26:52
million people, which was engineered by grain
1:26:55
requisitioning and denial of food relief.
1:26:57
And who was behind that grain requisitioning?
1:26:59
Joseph Stalin. Even though you tried to make it
1:27:01
seem like he tried to address it, he did address it by
1:27:04
ignoring the fact that millions of people were dying.
1:27:06
And you want a source behind that?
1:27:07
Because unlike my colleague, guys, I'm going to provide
1:27:09
source material for you guys. Timothy Snyder wrote a book
1:27:12
called Bloodlands where it shows with historical corroboration
1:27:17
that Joseph Stalin used starvation as a weapon.
1:27:20
So what my colleague is talking about as far as Nazi propaganda,
1:27:23
where the Nazis known for for lots of propaganda, absolutely,
1:27:28
absolutely. But at the end of the day, no
1:27:30
matter what, I'm using evidence and he's using rhetoric.
1:27:35
Okay? No, collectivization was not a
1:27:38
noble peasant movement. It was a state LED campaign of
1:27:41
terror, confiscation and starvation wrapped in Marxist
1:27:44
rhetoric and enforced with Soviet guns.
1:27:47
This attempt to paint it as bottom up is either deeply
1:27:50
misinformed or ideologically desperate.
1:27:53
Now I'm going to take time out, wild heart.
1:27:54
If you're going to make, if you're going to make idiotic
1:27:56
comments about the Bible, either join into the conversation so I
1:27:59
can tear you apart or, or just just stop acting like a
1:28:02
three-year old. OK, now I want to address that
1:28:05
more because again, it's very disturbing that my colleague is
1:28:09
talking about Hello Damore as a natural drought, right?
1:28:13
No credible modern historian accepts the Hello Damore from
1:28:18
1932 to 1933 as merely a weather related famine.
1:28:22
Yes, there were global crop issues, but absolutely not.
1:28:27
Are you going to say that the scale or the policy decisions
1:28:29
and deliberate targeting of Ukrainian peasants point to an
1:28:32
artificial that, that it doesn't point to an artificial state
1:28:35
engineered famine? OK, now I'm going to provide
1:28:38
another source. And Applebaum, who wrote the Red
1:28:41
Famine, Stalin's war on Ukraine, a quote from that book says the
1:28:44
famine was not a result of a natural disaster, but of
1:28:47
deliberate Soviet policies, including grain requisitions,
1:28:51
blockades, and suppression of of a peasant resistance.
1:28:56
So let's talk some facts behind that, OK?
1:28:58
Stalin exacerbated the famine and did not solve it, which kind
1:29:02
of annoyed the hell out of me earlier when you said that, that
1:29:04
Joseph Stalin tried to address it because every historical
1:29:08
document points to the other side.
1:29:11
Even as millions starved, grain exports from Ukraine increased
1:29:15
to fund Stalin's industrialization goals.
1:29:18
Soviet archives confirm this. You continue to allude to the
1:29:22
Nazis and to the Ukrainians, but all of the evidence that I'm
1:29:25
using against you comes directly from the Soviets, comes from the
1:29:28
people who actually caused it. Soviet archives confirm over 1.8
1:29:33
million tons of grain were exported during the peak of the
1:29:36
famine, which I find interesting that you continue to gloss over
1:29:38
when you make your rebuttals. Again, Timothy Snyder, who wrote
1:29:42
the book Bloodlands, says the famine was caused not by
1:29:45
drought, but by the violent grain requisitions, blacklisting
1:29:48
of villages, and deliberate withholding of aid.
1:29:51
I have now provided two sources. Let's talk about another
1:29:54
important fact. Stalin criminalized aid and
1:29:58
escape. In 1932, the Soviet regime
1:30:00
closed Ukrainian borders, banned peasants from leaving famine
1:30:04
struck areas, and criminalized gleaning leftover grain.
1:30:08
The Law of August 7th of 1932, which was renamed the Law of the
1:30:12
Five Years of Grain. Peasants caught taking leftover
1:30:16
food from fields were imprisoned or executed on the spot.
1:30:19
Interesting, isn't it? Now, for somebody who was trying
1:30:23
to address it as you falsely claim, it sure sounds like he
1:30:26
was addressing it by just stamping out the people who are
1:30:28
just trying not to starve to death.
1:30:29
I find that extraordinarily interesting.
1:30:32
Another interesting fact about you continue to say Nazi
1:30:35
propaganda, didn't you? You said Nazi propaganda.
1:30:38
It was was everything that was behind the whole load more,
1:30:40
right? Reports of the famine surfaced
1:30:43
before the Nazis even came to power in 1933.
1:30:47
British journalist Garris Jones publicly exposed the famine in
1:30:49
March of 1933, months before Hitler was chancellor.
1:30:53
I'm. I'm very interested to see how
1:30:54
you're going to address that. He was later murdered, likely by
1:30:57
Soviet agents. Stalin did smear famine
1:31:00
reporting as foreign propaganda, and Soviet mouthpiece Walter
1:31:05
Garanti of the New York Times shamefully backed him, earning A
1:31:08
Pulitzer Prize that remains controversial to this day.
1:31:11
I wonder why. Hello to more was was ethnically
1:31:16
and politically targeted. Ukraine was hit hardest because
1:31:19
it resisted. It resisted collectivation.
1:31:22
The fiercest Stalin's regime disbanded Ukrainian cultural
1:31:26
institutions, it shut down churches, it deported people,
1:31:30
and it rosified education all during and after the famine.
1:31:34
Rafael Lenkin, another scholar who coined the term genocide,
1:31:38
stated it is a case of genocide, the destruction of the Ukrainian
1:31:42
nation. Now mind you, none of the people
1:31:44
that I have stated to you are German or Ukrainian, which is
1:31:48
interesting to me that you continue to go on these tirades
1:31:51
about Nazi propaganda and Ukrainian propaganda being the
1:31:55
ones who invented this. And yet they were talking about
1:31:58
this famine as way before even Hitler was in power, to say
1:32:02
nothing of the fact that he hadn't started his spread
1:32:04
throughout Europe yet. So the final blow to literally
1:32:07
every lie that this individual told is that if it were just a
1:32:10
drought, Stalin would not have deported millions of peasants.
1:32:14
He would not have exported grain while children died in the
1:32:17
streets. He would not have arrested aid
1:32:19
workers. He would not have blockaded
1:32:21
flood supplies to the villages. He would not have denied the
1:32:24
famine ever happened until decades later.
1:32:26
And yes, just so you guys understand, Joseph Stalin did
1:32:28
acknowledge eventually that the famine happened and that he did
1:32:30
nothing about it. The death toll came out to
1:32:33
between 4 and 7 million people depending on estimates.
1:32:36
Bodies piled in villages while state the state bragged about
1:32:40
record grain exports. Congratulations, your grains
1:32:43
were going through the roof because you only had to kill a
1:32:45
couple million people to do it. So no, the holotomor was not
1:32:48
Ukrainian nationalist propaganda.
1:32:50
It was a man made famine orchestrated by Stalin, executed
1:32:53
to the state terror and aimed at crushing Ukrainian resistance.
1:32:57
Calling it just a drought is like saying Auschwitz was just a
1:33:00
a bad flu season. OK, don't insult the dead with
1:33:03
Soviet talking points. It's it's insulting and it's
1:33:04
disgusting and I yield back. All right, Mr. Dank, do you have
1:33:09
something for us? And then we're going to be
1:33:11
wrapping it up. All right.
1:33:14
Yeah. So I'll retort quickly.
1:33:16
I I expected this to be enough off the cuff debate so I didn't
1:33:19
have any sources prepared, but I will try my best to respond.
1:33:24
I'm sorry, let me ask, can I ask you a question?
1:33:26
You said it was an off the cuff debate.
1:33:28
I was told about this several days ago.
1:33:29
When were you told about it? Yeah, also on Monday.
1:33:32
Well, several days ago, but. So you were told about it
1:33:35
several days ago and you and you're saying it's off the cuff
1:33:36
and didn't have any evidence. That's interesting.
1:33:38
OK, I yield back. So anyways, dizzy so Stalin
1:33:44
wrote. Well, he, he had a speech called
1:33:47
Dizzy with success in in that he describes that the so the
1:33:56
collectivization process was, you know, there were there were
1:34:01
those who were kind of going overboard with it, those who
1:34:05
weren't doing enough. But he, you know, again, the
1:34:09
collectivization process was supposed to be voluntary by
1:34:13
state policy. It wasn't supposed to be totally
1:34:15
state enforced. State guided, yes, but not state
1:34:18
enforced. And you know, there's plenty of
1:34:22
just read dizzy with success and that that'll address that going
1:34:28
to the your sources. I don't have a list of them, so
1:34:32
I'm going to have to go off this by memory.
1:34:37
The the statements made again, like, obviously I'm not denying
1:34:46
that millions of people died in the famine, but the idea that it
1:34:50
was, it was state orchestrated and intentional is just false
1:34:55
because the, you know, this, the Soviet Union had to
1:35:01
industrialize. It simply had to.
1:35:03
And this was inevitably going to be a very ruthless process.
1:35:08
So yeah, they, you know, they did export grain.
1:35:12
They did, you know, arrest those who were stealing.
1:35:20
Those were, you know, stealing from collective farms.
1:35:25
Obviously the collective farms can't just allow anyone to take,
1:35:29
you know, grain and supplies freely.
1:35:31
It has to go through a system of distribution.
1:35:35
You know, So I that's like a not a very good point to to say
1:35:41
that, you know, that the Red Army did arrest and yeah,
1:35:48
probably in some cases shot, but I'm not sure if that was legal.
1:35:53
You know, those were who were looting from collective farms.
1:35:58
So yeah, like, again, this, this isn't it.
1:36:01
Like we're, we're talking about an inevitably ruthless process
1:36:05
of industrialization that the Soviet Union had to do through
1:36:11
not through colonies, not through land expansion and
1:36:15
conquest, but rather through industrializing what it already
1:36:19
had with its population. So yeah, I'll, I'll leave it
1:36:24
there. I might, you know, come back
1:36:27
with sources because again, I, yeah, I didn't prepare anything.
1:36:31
So I will address those claims at a later date.
1:36:34
I do want to let people know that Bank was originally the one
1:36:39
who initiated the debate. You actually had wanted to
1:36:42
debate me, and I told you that I really have no interest in
1:36:47
socialism. And actually I believe it's a
1:36:50
pipe dream. I don't think that there's any
1:36:51
possible way America will ever become that, although there are
1:36:55
some liberals who will push it. You said you wanted you.
1:37:00
You said you wanted a serious debate.
1:37:02
And the last time you came in, unfortunately, people were rough
1:37:05
on you, especially the Satanist that was in the room.
1:37:09
I admit that. So I wanted you to have a more
1:37:11
calculated debate where you got an opponent, where you could go
1:37:15
back and forth and have a good, intelligent discussion.
1:37:18
And Brother Maverick was one of the few in social media that I
1:37:22
knew would handle things calmly and methodically.
1:37:26
Yeah, I did do that. All right, so do you.
1:37:31
Have any fun? Yeah.
1:37:32
And, and, and that's fine. The, the, the thing about it is
1:37:35
I, I think that at the end of the day, what ends up happening
1:37:38
guys is, and this is, this is not a shot at Udank.
1:37:41
I think this is just a shot at what what the world is overall
1:37:44
now where we have kind of we've kind of devolved into this state
1:37:49
where we think that we can have conversations that are filled
1:37:53
with with talking points or filled with confirmation bias
1:37:58
with things that we have read or things that we have looked at
1:38:01
that we agree with that we didn't follow up on.
1:38:05
Now, I will say because I do believe in in saying things to
1:38:07
each other as a man and I do, I do look at you as a man.
1:38:10
You were a man enough to come here.
1:38:11
And I appreciate that. But I will tell you, you sound a
1:38:14
lot younger than I am. And I will tell you like if I
1:38:16
was telling my son, not because I'm trying to be condescending,
1:38:19
but because I think it's a lesson that you could take from
1:38:21
this. Is that it?
1:38:22
When you come in here and you're told told about something on
1:38:25
Monday, today being Friday, and you said that you came and you
1:38:29
didn't have any source material. You basically told the world
1:38:32
that you didn't believe enough in what it is that you believe
1:38:35
in to even respect it enough to get any source material and have
1:38:39
any way to truly and intellectually defend your
1:38:41
standing point. I think that that's very
1:38:44
condescending to your side, to your belief system, and to
1:38:47
everybody who sat here and listened to this debate when you
1:38:50
just continue to repeat things like that's just Nazi
1:38:52
propaganda, that's just Ukrainian propaganda and had
1:38:55
absolutely no way to historically back that up.
1:38:58
I think that's extremely disrespectful to the audience,
1:39:00
to say nothing of the host. But at the end of the day, that
1:39:03
is between you and God, my friend.
1:39:04
So I will leave you guys with this.
1:39:06
All day long, my opponent has tried to romanticize
1:39:10
authoritarian regimes. He justified collectivizing
1:39:15
theft and dressed it up as state coercion.
1:39:19
He dressed up state coercion as some kind of moral evolution.
1:39:22
He's repeated the tired excuses for Stalin's mass starvation,
1:39:26
right. He whitewashed Maoist property
1:39:28
seizures and claimed that the ends somehow justified the means
1:39:32
just because he thinks that it's better than property taxes, to
1:39:35
say nothing of the fact that he never addressed what property
1:39:38
taxes in the United States actually go for.
1:39:40
Now, we can all sit here subjectively and complain that
1:39:42
yours might be too high, but at the end of the day, nobody can.
1:39:45
Nobody can deny what they go towards.
1:39:48
Right. So long as it is so again, back
1:39:52
to what my opponent talking about, who constantly claimed
1:39:55
that the ends somehow justify them.
1:39:58
Give me a second guys. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
1:40:03
if you look out there, you'll see the link pinned up.
1:40:06
You can start coming in, filing in so we can get some
1:40:10
discussion. I had to.
1:40:11
I had to close the door because people started screaming in the
1:40:13
background. All right, no problem.
1:40:15
Go ahead. So my, yeah, so my, you know, my
1:40:17
opponent, he did a lot of things.
1:40:18
Like I said, he whitewashed, you know, Mao's property seizures.
1:40:21
He claimed again, constantly, over and over that the end
1:40:23
somehow justified the means so long as the means serve the
1:40:27
godless machinery of the state. But this is exactly what I was
1:40:30
talking about or what I alluded to in the beginning of the
1:40:32
debate. And Scripture tells a very
1:40:34
different story. If we look at the book of
1:40:35
Isaiah, chapter 5, verse 20, it warns us plainly, Woe to those
1:40:39
who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light
1:40:42
and light for darkness. That is exactly what we have
1:40:46
seen here today, ladies and gentlemen, A defense of evil
1:40:48
practices, camouflage and utopian promises.
1:40:52
But the fruit of these systems speaks for itself.
1:40:55
Forced famine, gulags and the erasure of the individual made
1:40:59
in God's image. Ecclesiastes chapter 5 verse 8
1:41:02
says if you see the poor oppressed in the district and a
1:41:05
just and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at
1:41:09
such things. For one official is eyed by a
1:41:12
higher one and over them both are others higher still.
1:41:17
That is socialism in a nutshell. Layers of bureaucracy, no
1:41:21
accountability, no justice, just oppression in the name of quote
1:41:26
UN quote equality. My opponent also tried to argue
1:41:29
that Christianity somehow finds fulfillment in socialism, but
1:41:33
Second Corinthians 317 shuts that down hard and quick.
1:41:37
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
1:41:41
Notice it uses the word liberty, not control, not tyranny,
1:41:45
liberty. God did not design his people to
1:41:48
be serfs under Caesar. 2 point O Jesus didn't die so that the
1:41:52
state could become your savior. And finally, in Matthew Chapter
1:41:55
7, verses 18 and 20, it says a good tree cannot bear bad fruit
1:42:00
and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
1:42:02
Thus by their fruits you will recognize them.
1:42:05
The fruit of the atheistic socialism was starvation,
1:42:09
surveillance, and suppression. The fruit of Jesus Christ is
1:42:12
freedom, dignity, and redemption.
1:42:15
So I'll close with this. We've heard a lot of historical
1:42:19
revisionism today, but no amount of dialects can rewrite the
1:42:23
truth. Ladies and gentlemen, you cannot
1:42:25
sanitize the sins of the state or baptize communism in
1:42:29
Christian language. You either serve the Kingdom of
1:42:31
God or you serve the Kingdom of men.
1:42:33
And As for me, we must obey God rather than men.
1:42:37
Acts chapter 5, verse 29 and I yield.
1:42:42
All right, so we have the link pinned up and does anyone have
1:42:46
any views? Your comments are on my screen.
1:42:50
What do you guys think? I'm going to give the audience
1:42:53
out there the opportunity. I see we have non believers and
1:42:56
religious folks. How did you feel about the
1:42:58
debate and what points did you agree with and disagree with?
1:43:03
Be as critical as you like. You guys can't see the screen
1:43:09
unless you watch the open broadcast unfortunately.
1:43:14
How you both feeling by the way? I'm good man, I'm good.
1:43:18
I've been drinking water through the whole thing so I got to pee
1:43:20
real bad, but other than that I'm good.
1:43:22
Why don't you go take care of that real quick, yeah?
1:43:24
I will, I will. I'm good.
1:43:25
I'm not that. It's not that bad yet.
1:43:27
All right, all right. Well, I'm an old man.
1:43:31
When I got to go, I got to go. It's all good.
1:43:36
So are you Mr. Dank after hearing all this information and
1:43:42
he's also put up the links? Will you be checking out his
1:43:45
references and research that he has obviously meticulously put
1:43:50
forth for you? Yeah, no, I will be checking
1:43:54
them. I am familiar with them.
1:43:55
For example, Robert Conquest. Robert Conquest, The funny thing
1:43:59
is about his black book of communism is that even the his
1:44:04
co-authors admitted that the, you know, the mythology he was
1:44:09
going to, he was, he was using to go about, you know, exposing
1:44:15
the atrocities of communism were false.
1:44:17
So I don't think Robert Conquest is a very good source.
1:44:23
The other ones, you know, I, I have heard of them, I am
1:44:25
familiar with them. I didn't really expect this to
1:44:28
be much of A debate about Stalin, I'll be honest.
1:44:32
But you know, I I probably should have like gotten some
1:44:37
sources. Well, dank, dank.
1:44:39
May I say something to you real quick?
1:44:41
Unfortunately, when having a conversation about socialism or
1:44:44
communism, it's it's going to be a thing where he's always going
1:44:49
to be brought into it. Mao is going to be brought into
1:44:52
it. Every one of these atheist
1:44:54
dictators that went towards this type of government or political
1:44:59
position, it, it ended badly. Go ahead.
1:45:04
So I, yeah, I expected to kind of just go off my own memory.
1:45:08
So I didn't do any preparation. I just maybe, maybe
1:45:12
underestimate or over underestimated the opponent.
1:45:17
So yeah, I, you know, I will concede that.
1:45:19
Yeah, I probably should have brought in some more sources on
1:45:22
the the history of it. That's kind of one thing I kind
1:45:25
of failed to do. But yeah, like I, I do think
1:45:31
that, you know, wow, there were famines.
1:45:35
I do think that this idea that it was intentional to start out
1:45:41
the population, I don't think that has any basis.
1:45:43
And I do think that's propaganda.
1:45:45
I think Stalin's speeches like, you know, dizzy with success
1:45:48
prove that, you know, the the fact that they achieved full
1:45:51
food security after I think proves that etcetera, etcetera.
1:45:57
So. What speeches?
1:45:59
What speeches are you referring to?
1:46:02
Busy with success. And you know what?
1:46:05
And let me, let me get, let me get in there real quick.
1:46:06
Brad, I, I understand where you're coming from, Dank.
1:46:11
I get it. There was a speech and you're
1:46:12
saying that it kind of confirms what you're trying to say.
1:46:15
But at the end of the day, you're talking about a speech
1:46:17
from a man who was responsible for it.
1:46:19
And, and, and again, you're still glossing over the fact
1:46:21
that I made it abundantly clear and gave you several people,
1:46:24
even up to and including a person from a country very
1:46:27
distantly away in the United Kingdom, who made it clear what
1:46:30
was going on before, several months before Adolf Hitler was
1:46:34
even elected chancellor. So as we all know, as, as as
1:46:38
tends to take place when new governments are in place,
1:46:42
propaganda doesn't take hold right away, right?
1:46:44
So you would have had to have given those couple months for
1:46:46
him to get elected, to say nothing of the fact that Adolf
1:46:48
Hitler did not immediately begin his military campaign.
1:46:51
So there would have been no reason for him to begin lying
1:46:53
about Russia yet, right. To say nothing of the fact that
1:46:56
you're again, alluding to a speech from the man who was
1:46:58
responsible for the genocide and then say, well, his speech
1:47:01
confirms it, except that later on in his life he admitted to
1:47:05
it. And that's and, and again,
1:47:07
you're you, you continue to gloss over that.
1:47:10
And, and I find it disturbing that again, you are continuing
1:47:14
so hard to try to justify the genocide that everyone in the
1:47:19
world, including the man who is responsible himself.
1:47:22
And it is corroborated by historical documents where
1:47:25
Stalin said, yes, this happened. I, I, I don't understand why
1:47:30
we're even having the conversation, if we're being
1:47:32
honest, because you're essentially saying that the
1:47:35
people that I named who wrote publications about it, and it's
1:47:38
not as though they wrote publications and just wrote
1:47:40
their opinions. They wrote publications based on
1:47:42
what a lot of people do, based on historical documents, based
1:47:46
on eyewitness accounts, based on interviews.
1:47:48
Sounds like another book that I love to read.
1:47:51
And they ended up writing down what they had found.
1:47:53
There were those were only three or four names of countless
1:47:57
people who have wrote about the famine that we've been talking
1:48:00
about. So when you say a speech was
1:48:03
written and and he acknowledges that it wasn't his fault, it
1:48:07
doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what the man
1:48:09
says because you're taking the word of a genocidal maniac and
1:48:13
then acting like if he says it in a speech, it makes it true.
1:48:16
Any more than if, if, if Adolf Hitler got up there and said,
1:48:19
you know, the, the, the Jews all lost their lives from a famine.
1:48:22
I, my people didn't do nothing to him.
1:48:24
You're not going to take his word for it because you know,
1:48:25
he's a lying piece of crap. So I don't even understand what
1:48:28
point you're trying to make with that.
1:48:30
Yeah. So the point I'm trying to make,
1:48:32
it's not saying that like, oh, someone didn't say he did it in
1:48:35
that speech and that's why it didn't happen.
1:48:37
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the like your
1:48:40
point about collectivization being a, you know, over like a
1:48:45
state direct, like state top down thing is directly
1:48:53
contradicted by Disney with success because essentially
1:48:58
Disney with success is a critique of the sort of
1:49:03
overzealous collectivization practices that will be being
1:49:06
taken upon by some. So even in the original instance
1:49:11
of collectivization, Stalin tried to moderate it and he
1:49:16
tried to prevent it from being as extreme as it was.
1:49:22
You know, maybe it didn't have to be as extreme as as it took
1:49:25
place. But again, we're dealing with,
1:49:27
you know, innate historical laws of industrialization of
1:49:30
agriculture that, yeah, to have historically, even outside of
1:49:34
the context of socialism, have been quite devastating and
1:49:38
brutal. All right.
1:49:39
I have a question for you both. It's a little bit of a challenge
1:49:43
to finish out the debate, and this will come from the the
1:49:47
moderator. I want you both to name 3
1:49:51
vulnerable exploitations that could be done in your political
1:49:55
stance. I want you to tell me three
1:49:57
things that you know could be very destructive with socialism.
1:50:01
And I want Brother Maverick to tell me 3 vulnerabilities and
1:50:05
exploitations that can be done through capitalism.
1:50:08
Go ahead. Sure, I'll start.
1:50:11
So he made a point. Can you said three.
1:50:15
I'm sorry, say say that. Oh, give me one second.
1:50:17
Give me one second, I will happily answer that.
1:50:19
All right, so give me so you said 3 exploitations.
1:50:22
Yeah, vulnerabilities within the political system that you
1:50:26
support or endorse. OK, so as far as capitalism
1:50:32
goes, I think that we have been clear that it is far from
1:50:35
perfect right now when you're talking about capitalism in and
1:50:39
of itself, it it all falls back to what we know is the biggest
1:50:43
problem, guys, which is human beings.
1:50:44
We're all falling, right? For me, one of the biggest
1:50:47
things is moral decay because human beings by nature are
1:50:50
selfish, greedy people, right? You cannot sustain liberty
1:50:54
without virtue. And John Adams actually guys
1:50:56
warned about this. He said our constitution was
1:50:58
made only for a moral and religious people.
1:51:01
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
1:51:05
So when the population abandons biblical morality, the system
1:51:08
degenerates into basically license and not liberty.
1:51:11
We can all also say, which I think I'm pretty sure Dank would
1:51:14
would would agree with this. Is that this this this cronyism
1:51:18
and capitalism that drives me absolutely insane right now?
1:51:23
I'll explain that by saying that biblical capitalism protects
1:51:25
property rights and rewards honest labor.
1:51:28
And you can reference 2nd Thessalonians 310 for that.
1:51:31
But without checks, it mutates into into cronyism, right?
1:51:35
Where the government and corporations collude and they
1:51:37
exploit the people. And that's no longer free market
1:51:40
capitalism. It's a rigged system.
1:51:42
Actually, Proverbs 11/1 calls it what it is dishonest scales or
1:51:46
an abomination to the Lord. OK, and if honestly, I I could
1:51:50
probably also say that, you know, weaponized weaponized law
1:51:53
and politics is is probably another one that really
1:51:56
irritates me because even a good legal system can be hijacked by
1:51:59
wicked rulers. Isaiah 10, one warns woe to
1:52:01
those who make unjust laws. That includes judges who invent
1:52:05
rights that contradict God's law or politicians who serve donors
1:52:08
instead of people. And I think that we saw that and
1:52:12
not because I, I in no way want this to turn into a political
1:52:15
debate because those, those irritate the hell out of me.
1:52:17
I'm done with those. But I think that anybody, even
1:52:20
even people who are Democrats, even even the former governor of
1:52:23
New York stated that when you use the weapon system against
1:52:27
somebody just because you don't want them to win the White
1:52:29
House, you have devolved into a very fringe version of what our
1:52:34
government is supposed to be. The way that they used, they
1:52:36
tried to weaponize the, the, the weapon system against Donald
1:52:39
Trump that, that, that is that was huge for me.
1:52:42
And I think that they essentially hit with, you know,
1:52:44
won him that election. But at the end of the day, that
1:52:46
was one of those rare things that, you know, a, a weakness
1:52:48
turned into a, a rising up from the people and say, no, you're
1:52:51
not going to start pulling this crap now.
1:52:53
We're going to vote for him more, right?
1:52:54
I mean, so there's a lot, you know, for me, you know, the
1:52:56
idolization of the state, you know, you weaponizing law and
1:52:59
politics, false freedom without responsibility.
1:53:02
I already alluded to crony capitalism, moral decay.
1:53:04
There's a lot of things with capitalism, but why?
1:53:06
Because human beings suck. That's what it comes down to.
1:53:09
So I yield back. All right, what about you, Dank?
1:53:13
Yeah, so I do think there are. Again, I don't think socialism
1:53:17
is a perfect system. There definitely are some abuses
1:53:20
that could be apparent. One of them would be ultra
1:53:23
leftism, this kind of, you know, desire to move too fast, then
1:53:28
the, you know, development of the productive forces and
1:53:32
relations of production would allow.
1:53:34
So for example, like if you want to equalize wages or something,
1:53:37
you're necessarily exploiting advanced state high skilled
1:53:42
labor if you equalize for wages, which is not really something
1:53:46
that any socialist country today practices.
1:53:50
The other is bureaucracy, bureaucratic, you know,
1:53:54
despotism. So without like something like
1:53:57
in China where you have an Ave. for those who are kind of more
1:54:03
self-serving, they're self interested, you know, to pursue
1:54:07
like a like a market economy. Eventually what's going to
1:54:11
happen is that you're going to have those people in the state
1:54:14
bureaucracy. And that was a big problem in
1:54:16
the USSR because they didn't deepen the socialist relations
1:54:19
and they didn't federate things. Yeah, she kind of moves like
1:54:22
Khrushchev moving that more opposite, right, Like more
1:54:25
towards more bureaucracy and centralization.
1:54:28
And we've existed in Stalin period.
1:54:32
So that's definitely a problem. But, you know, interestingly is
1:54:39
that the the the market in China is kind of seen as a public
1:54:43
good. So there are things like
1:54:47
antitrust laws, you know, breaking up of, of companies
1:54:52
that maybe can't be centralized into the state or collectivized
1:54:55
just yet. So, you know, in, in some ways
1:54:58
there is like a superiority of the socialist market system than
1:55:02
you have in the US where the US is controlled by basically the
1:55:08
banks and the financiers. So you, these antitrust laws are
1:55:12
probably never going to happen unless there's some kind of
1:55:14
revolution. The third abuse of socialism, I
1:55:18
guess, would maybe be a kind of a false view that Marx had of
1:55:23
the development of the free spirit where he thought that
1:55:25
religious expression would be, you know, necessarily withered
1:55:31
away. I think we're we're seeing is
1:55:32
the development of the free spirit, you know, doesn't
1:55:35
necessarily exhaust religious expression.
1:55:38
So there kind of has to be some sort of pluralism for religious
1:55:40
tolerance and stuff like that. So those are the three abuses I
1:55:44
could see happening under a socialist system.
1:55:47
And so really both systems can have issues pertaining every
1:55:52
system. Will have issues every
1:55:54
everything, everything that is created by a fallen human nature
1:55:56
is going to have issues because we are we are a fallen race of.
1:55:59
Of. We are a fallen species, that is
1:56:01
what it is. We're never going to have
1:56:02
anything perfect. There's no such thing as utopia.
1:56:04
That's why it's called heaven. I agree with that.
1:56:07
Terrell believed that, too. Yeah, Brett, I have to go,
1:56:10
brother. But I do want, yeah.
1:56:12
No, I, I, I, I want to let just real quick guys, some things
1:56:16
that I, I dank. I hope this is not the last time
1:56:19
we talked. I like you, brother.
1:56:20
I, I see that you are. I, I honestly do believe in my
1:56:22
heart that you are not doing what you are doing because you
1:56:27
think it's an evil thing. I don't think that you believe
1:56:28
anything you believe because you are trying to be a bad person.
1:56:32
And so for that, I commend you. I, I, I am somewhat troubled by
1:56:37
kind of the, your, your, your views on things, especially when
1:56:43
so much of history contradicts it.
1:56:44
But at the end of the day, no matter what, you know, I, I'm a
1:56:49
firm believer that if you continue to seek the truth,
1:56:51
eventually and intellectually honest person will seek will
1:56:54
will see the real truth as opposed to what they want to see
1:56:57
guys to provide you guys, If anybody wants to look into more
1:57:03
of this, all right, we have historian Robert Conquest, who
1:57:08
in the Harvest of the Sorrow writes that Joseph Stalin's
1:57:11
campaign was centrally planned and directed with full knowledge
1:57:14
of its consequences. All right, I want you guys to
1:57:15
listen to what I'm saying. Write it down.
1:57:17
I don't care. We have Orlando Fijes, who in a
1:57:20
revolutionary Russia from 1891 to 1991, describes Stalins use
1:57:26
of, quote, dizzy with success, UN quote, not as a correction,
1:57:30
but as a political tactic. Right.
1:57:32
And he said that it was a scapegoating exercise used to
1:57:35
redirect peasant rage from Moscow to local officials, which
1:57:39
to me is absolutely crazy, but sounds like what a clever
1:57:41
politician would do. We have Anne Applebaum, who in
1:57:44
the Red Famine states. Stalin's war on Ukraine also
1:57:47
dismantles the myth that Stalin never intended to halt
1:57:51
collectivization. Dizzy with Success was APR stunt
1:57:54
to cool down unrest before he doubled down on it.
1:57:58
So when we talk about what Dizzy with Success was, guys, it was
1:58:01
damage control. The countryside was exploding in
1:58:04
revolt. And that's why he made that
1:58:06
speech. He knew that eventually even his
1:58:08
armies could not contain the entirety of the Russian people.
1:58:12
Resistance, livestock slaughter and food shortages were
1:58:15
spiraling out of control when he made that speech.
1:58:18
Stalin published this article in Pravada in March 1930 to calm
1:58:23
the storm, not to reverse it, not to change policies, not to
1:58:27
save lives. He blamed local excesses and not
1:58:30
the policy itself, allowing him to save face while resetting the
1:58:34
optics, which again, unfortunately, it worked to a
1:58:38
certain extent. So what happened after that?
1:58:40
Collectivization resumed with full force only months later.
1:58:45
So when you look back at it, guys, you had mass deportations
1:58:48
of, again, what we, what they like to call Kulox.
1:58:52
And it began before the article and continued after it.
1:58:55
We had famine which struck Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other
1:58:58
regions just a few years later, which again was a result of the
1:59:01
same ruthless policies where millions died.
1:59:04
And Joseph Stalin was behind that.
1:59:06
And then, and this is something that I dank, I really do want
1:59:09
you to look into. OK.
1:59:10
I seriously, honestly want you to look into this.
1:59:12
Stalin's own letters compiled in Stalin volume one.
1:59:17
That's actually what the publication is called.
1:59:19
Stalin Volume 1 by Stephen Coltin shows no remorse, only
1:59:24
strategic adjustments. So through Stalin's own words,
1:59:27
he couldn't have cared less about the amount of lies.
1:59:30
To him it was little more than collateral damage.
1:59:33
But lastly, we have a historian from Yale, Timothy Snyder, who
1:59:37
notes in the publication Bloodlines quote.
1:59:40
The pause was merely tactical. Stalin never changed his goals.
1:59:45
The article was designed to defect blame while the machinery
1:59:49
of terror continued. End Quote.
1:59:51
The conclusion to all of this guys.
1:59:53
Before I leave the idea that Disney was successful, Stalin's
1:59:56
soft touch is a farce. It was a Soviet spin.
1:59:59
It was political garbage. He orchestrated the disaster.
2:00:03
He paused to shift blame, as so many politicians even now still
2:00:06
do. And then resumed the same
2:00:08
destruction. The only thing Joseph Stalin
2:00:11
moderated was the optics and definitely not the suffering.
2:00:15
He could not have cared less about that.
2:00:16
Guys, I got to go, Brett. Love you, brother.
2:00:18
I'll talk to you guys soon, Dank.
2:00:19
I hope to talk to you soon. Look those things up, guys.
2:00:22
I really do appreciate it. Love you guys.
2:00:23
Appreciate you guys. Be safe, be good, be blessed,
2:00:25
and I'll see you guys when I see you, man.
2:00:26
See you later, brother Maverick. Let me know when your next live
2:00:29
show is and I'll be more than happy to jump in.
2:00:33
Sunday, dog, you know how it goes.
2:00:34
Sunday around 5:00. Be ready.
2:00:36
Be there or be square. All.
2:00:38
Right, later, guys. God bless.
2:00:42
All right, so do we have anybody?
2:00:44
We've got Mr. What's his name? Where's he at?
2:00:50
Let me see if I can bring him up on the screen.
2:00:55
Oop. How do I drag him up?
2:00:58
Oh, OK, here we go. My goodness, it's giving me hell
2:01:05
doing this. While you're doing that, can I
2:01:08
say something of? Course you can.
2:01:11
Cool. Yeah, so do look into that.
2:01:16
You know, I'm not going to say don't look into that.
2:01:18
That's kind of be like really suspicious.
2:01:21
But I also recommend you look into Grover Firs, Khrushchev
2:01:27
Lied and Grover Fir's Blood Lies, which is a direct response
2:01:32
to Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands. I'm currently in the process of
2:01:37
reading them, so I haven't completed reading them.
2:01:40
I probably should have reread them more before this debate so
2:01:43
that way I could provide more direct responses to his claims,
2:01:48
which, yeah, I'll acknowledge. I kind of like faltered on that.
2:01:51
I probably should have done more prep.
2:01:55
It's all good. Hold on one second.
2:01:58
We got a clip. What is your advice to the
2:02:01
younger generation or anything? I would say stop being a bunch
2:02:06
of pussies. No, I agree with that.
2:02:12
Goodness gracious, So what you have to Wild heart?
2:02:17
Wild heart? You still an atheist or have we
2:02:19
got through to you yet? No, I'm still an atheist.
2:02:23
Oh boy, Well, you're always welcome in the room anyway, So
2:02:26
how you been? And I think besides the debate
2:02:29
and all that, how have you been doing?
2:02:33
Yeah. Yeah.
2:02:35
Pretty good. I'm just finishing.
2:02:36
I finished my education. I'm graduating soon so I'm just
2:02:39
on a job hunt and working on my book and videos and content and
2:02:44
stuff like that. What are you wanting to do?
2:02:46
If you could choose any kind of job in the world, what kind of
2:02:49
thing would you want to get into?
2:02:52
Getting into journalism, I yeah, I'd like to be a like a good
2:02:56
journalist or also maybe Labor Relations.
2:03:00
I was thinking of going into that as well.
2:03:03
What about you, wild heart? If you could be anything you
2:03:05
wanted, what would it be? Just.
2:03:10
Like a happy person. A happy person.
2:03:14
That sounds like a winnable deal there.
2:03:18
Think I'm not getting against you in journalism?
2:03:20
I hope you have full good luck on that for sure.
2:03:22
That sounds interesting. If people would like to come in,
2:03:27
the link is pinned up and we can try to get some discussion
2:03:30
going. If anybody's got questions about
2:03:33
the debate, you're more than willing to throw out your ideas.
2:03:36
Wild heart. I know usually you got your own
2:03:38
ideas in mind to what you want to get on to me about, but what
2:03:42
do you think about the debate and do you have any views on it?
2:03:46
Yeah, I thought it was good. I just don't know what what it
2:03:50
accomplished. Like even more atheists have
2:03:53
killed more people than religious.
2:03:56
People. Well, this wasn't this wasn't a
2:03:58
conversation about who killed the most people or anything.
2:04:02
It was a conversation about what is most beneficial for society,
2:04:06
communism, socialism or capitalism.
2:04:09
It was that type of topic wasn't about who who killed the most,
2:04:13
right? You know, sorry I I missed the
2:04:17
beginning. That's, that's fine, yeah.
2:04:20
All right, so you got any views on what you did here?
2:04:26
What about most society? Yeah, I mean, you can have that
2:04:30
debate and yeah, I suppose it's it's objective as to which one
2:04:38
did actually bring the most society.
2:04:41
OK, there must be there must be like reasons and you know,
2:04:47
analysis we can do to to find out which which one actually,
2:04:51
but most. All right, now, fair enough on
2:04:55
that. Robin, would you like to come in
2:04:57
and be able to be a part of the discussion?
2:05:00
If you guys want to, we can talk about any old thing.
2:05:05
Why are you a dink? Were you ever familiar with
2:05:13
Brother Maverick before the debate?
2:05:16
No, not at all. I think, yeah, Wildheart, you've
2:05:23
spoken to Brother Maverick a couple times.
2:05:27
Yeah, yeah, he's go. He's a good guy.
2:05:34
Well, let's see if we got anybody out there.
2:05:38
Goodness gracious. Maybe Yetner will come in once
2:05:42
he gets back from his daughter's recital.
2:05:46
And let's see, Robin, you want to come in and help put the
2:05:50
conversation up? Unfortunately, she says she's
2:05:53
unloading a milk truck. Oh boy.
2:06:00
Well, my main focus was to make sure that you guys would have a
2:06:03
good debate and have the ability to do it with me staying in the
2:06:08
background and letting you guys do your thing.
2:06:12
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that's really going
2:06:15
on politically that's getting on my nerves is the Elon Trump
2:06:19
thing that's happened. Did you hear about that dank?
2:06:25
Yes, I have. Yeah, I think both suck.
2:06:29
Yeah, some people are saying that Elon is doing this because
2:06:36
Trump wouldn't basically give him some slack and or help him
2:06:42
get some benefits out of politics for his company.
2:06:46
And then Elon Musk unfortunately made a very liable defamation
2:06:51
type of statement about Trump, and it's not going so well.
2:06:56
Apparently Elon wants to work things out now, wants to talk to
2:07:01
Trump, but Trump's not interested in talking to him
2:07:03
just now. And to be honest with you, I
2:07:06
think that's fair. After those kind of accusations,
2:07:10
they both need a time out and need to concentrate on his
2:07:14
business and Trump needs to deal with America.
2:07:18
So what about the Ukraine? Did you guys get to see all the
2:07:21
fireworks this morning? I'm.
2:07:26
Not caught up with that right now.
2:07:29
You didn't get to you guys didn't get to see it.
2:07:32
Well, Russia said because the Ukraine blew up some of their
2:07:36
planes and also tried to assassinate Putin.
2:07:40
He said I'm going to have to respond to that.
2:07:42
And when Putin says he's going to be responding to something,
2:07:45
this means somebody's going to get blown the hell up and a city
2:07:49
was tore up over it and the Ukraine like one of their main
2:07:53
cities. It was very it was like kind of
2:07:57
reminded me of what I've seen in the Iraq war.
2:08:01
The shock and awe. It was it was rough.
2:08:03
That was that's gracious. I'll.
2:08:14
Be right back. All right, you checking that out
2:08:20
right now? Dank.
2:08:22
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I, I think I
2:08:29
was, I was too optimistic about Trump putting an end to the
2:08:34
Ukrainian war. And you know, I think, I think
2:08:38
Ukraine is simply just, it's mainly part of the, they don't
2:08:43
want to see territory to Russia, you know, the Donbass and Russia
2:08:48
sees that as an integral part of their territory.
2:08:50
So it's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
2:08:54
I have more sympathies to Russia, that's for sure.
2:08:56
Well, I actually have sympathy for Russia as well.
2:09:00
Countless times Putin has said he's willing to cease-fire.
2:09:04
He's willing to do peace talks. But then whenever he went to an
2:09:08
organization, went into a building to try to talk to some
2:09:12
leaders and stuff from the Ukraine, they had set him up and
2:09:15
sent drones in to try to kill his ass.
2:09:18
So now he's pissed, and unfortunately, Trump didn't hear
2:09:22
the news. I don't know why Tulsi Gabbard,
2:09:24
she's in control of intelligence, didn't let him
2:09:27
know that Putin was almost killed by Zelensky's drones.
2:09:32
And he got up on the news like an idiot and said Putin's acting
2:09:37
crazy, Why is he attacking and all this?
2:09:40
The truth is, ladies and gentlemen, and some people might
2:09:43
think I'm ignorant for saying this, but somebody tried to
2:09:46
assassinate Donald Trump and they were taking credit for it.
2:09:51
You know damn well that we're, whoever did that there, wherever
2:09:55
their areas is going to get turned into a parking lot for a
2:09:58
super center Walmart, period. So why would they expect another
2:10:03
leader to just sit back and take that?
2:10:06
So it is what it is. Zelensky's been pushing it over
2:10:11
and over and over. He wants his war and I think
2:10:14
that he's going to end up, he's going to end up basically 6 feet
2:10:18
into the ground if he keeps it up.
2:10:20
I don't think he realizes how smart Putin is and the
2:10:25
technology and advancements they have in weaponry.
2:10:28
Go ahead. Yeah, I absolutely agree.
2:10:32
You know, really. Like what's glossed over is that
2:10:34
it was Ukraine that started the war.
2:10:37
They were bombing the Donbass People's Republics, as, you
2:10:43
know, Russia, like, just agree, like Senate declaration that
2:10:47
they would defend them. And so Russia was kind of, you
2:10:52
know, provoked into this war to defend their allies in the
2:10:55
Donbass against these Ukrainian Azovite Nazis.
2:11:01
Well, I agree with you. I agree that Ukraine actually
2:11:04
started it too, but I don't believe that that was the only
2:11:08
thing they did to start it. I think by talking about getting
2:11:11
into NATO and all this and allowing military equipment to
2:11:15
be put right along the border of Russia, that would be basically
2:11:20
similar to someone wanting to put nukes right on the border of
2:11:23
Mexico pointing at the United States.
2:11:25
Ain't nobody going to put up with that shit.
2:11:27
So. Exactly.
2:11:29
Yeah, Yeah. And it was the National
2:11:33
Endowment for Democracy that kind of like, you know,
2:11:36
infiltrated Ukrainian institutions and got them to,
2:11:40
you know, they obviously they caused the Euro Maidan to get
2:11:45
Ukraine to, you know, drift away from Russia.
2:11:50
And that this basically a National Endowment for
2:11:56
Democracy, sort of led the Ukraine down this path to being
2:12:02
obliterated by Russia slowly. Yeah, and they and they will
2:12:06
lose. There's absolutely no way.
2:12:09
And I do not want the United States to get involved.
2:12:12
I, I think that this was what the Ukraine did.
2:12:15
This is what they wanted. And they're going to do what one
2:12:20
of my favorite philosophies is fuck around, find out.
2:12:23
That's what's going to happen. And we need to stare our ass out
2:12:25
of it. So a. 100%.
2:12:30
Yeah, Robin, you're asking if they have a Walmart.
2:12:33
Well, if they didn't, they're going to now, along with a big
2:12:37
old parking lot to go along with it.
2:12:41
I don't know if you've ever talked to Robin before.
2:12:43
She's a she's a sweetheart, but she says some annoying shit to
2:12:47
me sometimes, but I still consider her buddy.
2:12:55
Well, looks like we found common ground on that, Mister Dink.
2:13:00
Yeah, absolutely. And I I do feel obviously very
2:13:04
sympathetic and empathy for the soldiers on both sides are
2:13:09
basically being sent them to a woodchipper.
2:13:13
Yeah, I yeah, I, I, you know, I wish this war never happened.
2:13:16
I wish that the Ukrainian state granted independence, the Don
2:13:19
Bass People's Republics, you know, I, I wish this never
2:13:22
happened. But I think that the US deep
2:13:26
state basically and NATO, you know, kind of I hope the
2:13:29
hornet's nest and this is what's happening and it really never
2:13:32
had to happen. If those two sides, you know,
2:13:36
where, if, if NATO and the, you know, National Endowment for
2:13:39
Democracy in the deep state didn't, didn't 'cause this so.
2:13:43
There's people that's been asking me lately due to this
2:13:46
whole fall between Elon and Trump, If Elon's accusation is
2:13:51
true and it turns out that Trump was involved with Epstein
2:13:54
Island, like in the way of screwing around with children,
2:13:58
what should happen? Well, I'm not in a cult folks.
2:14:01
I, I don't worship Donald Trump. If he hurt children or he was
2:14:05
involved in what those celebrities and politicians on
2:14:08
both sides were doing, then his ass needs to be buried under the
2:14:12
the nastiest prison, perhaps even out the trads if he wants,
2:14:17
and be the end of that. That's how I feel about it.
2:14:20
I like some of his policies and some of his ideas if he's being
2:14:24
truthful about it. But if he was involved in any
2:14:27
kind of way under that kind of demeanor, then he's he's lost
2:14:32
his value in existence, in my perspective.
2:14:36
There you go. Yeah.
2:14:38
I agree 100%. You got any views?
2:14:42
Wild Heart? Did you get an opportunity to
2:14:44
see the fireworks over in Ukraine?
2:14:47
I didn't know about. I agree with what you just said
2:14:50
about yeah, Trump and that yeah. You know, how do you have any
2:14:55
thoughts about the whole Russian Ukraine war that's going on?
2:15:00
I'm, I'm not very like obviously there's something I think Russia
2:15:05
was wrong to invade the Ukraine. I think I think there's wrong on
2:15:11
both sides, but Russia is mainly wrong.
2:15:14
But I don't know a lot about it to.
2:15:16
Do well, I think before you start, like initiating
2:15:21
responsibility, you may want to look into it a little bit more.
2:15:24
It's obvious that Mister Dank, as well as Robin has been
2:15:28
watching the news and paying attention to what's going on on
2:15:31
this issue. It's not so cut and dry or black
2:15:34
and white. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:15:38
I recommend looking at the Gonzalo Lira, the things he said
2:15:41
about it, the fact that he was imprisoned by the Ukrainian
2:15:44
government on basically, you know, free speech charges and
2:15:49
putting the prison in killed, you know, and and also that
2:15:54
Victoria Newlands wanted that to happen didn't intervene on his
2:15:58
behalf even though he was AUS citizen.
2:16:02
You can also check out my article called the The Faith of
2:16:06
the Empire of Lies, which is the title is an allusion to Putin's
2:16:10
speech on called The Empire of Lies.
2:16:13
There, that was actually a school essay I wrote for an
2:16:18
economics of war class saying, you know what's basically going
2:16:22
on. I got a mark of like 94%.
2:16:25
So I posted on my blog. I recommend you check that out.
2:16:28
Yeah. What inspired you to get into
2:16:33
journalism? Out of all the different skill
2:16:35
sets and things you could do from a historian or whatever,
2:16:39
Why journalism? What moved you?
2:16:42
Well, you know, working with the American Communist Party, I was
2:16:46
interviewing some Canada Post workers who were striking and
2:16:51
she said I went with no preparation.
2:16:54
Well, actually I had some preparation.
2:16:55
I had some questions prepared by the party.
2:16:58
But, you know, I did a little bit of research and I, you know,
2:17:01
I asked the questions and I heard her say that that was the
2:17:05
best interview she heard from anyone.
2:17:07
And there was already students from Western, which is where I
2:17:10
go to school that went there and asked her questions and that was
2:17:14
the best interview. So I, I think that's like really
2:17:16
hone my, you know, I was originally going to do a
2:17:19
master's in approval science, but I kind of got disillusioned
2:17:22
with academia. So I'm going to do a master's in
2:17:25
journalism and then maybe a master's in Labor Relations
2:17:28
after that. Well, after that.
2:17:30
Isn't that a difficult basically to get into being an actual
2:17:35
journalist? Isn't that a really tough thing
2:17:38
to do? It is, yeah.
2:17:41
Yeah, you definitely need the like, So the program I want to
2:17:45
go in as a Co-op at the end, which would give me some job
2:17:47
experience. So I think that'll get my foot
2:17:50
in the door. But yeah, absolutely.
2:17:51
It's a hard industry to get into.
2:17:54
But you know, nothing, nothing easy is ever worth doing, right?
2:17:57
So I think, you know, I could get a probably another job at
2:18:02
CBCA lot of my haters like Johnny Socialism would probably
2:18:05
ruin that with a phone call because he knows my name and,
2:18:09
you know, he docks me and stuff like that.
2:18:11
But yeah, so you know, I, I could probably get a job at RT
2:18:17
or some like private firm or something, maybe just doing
2:18:21
communications, not necessarily journalism, but my, my goal is
2:18:24
to have a like my own publication, my own like media
2:18:29
firm. Well, have you thought of
2:18:31
creating your own official website and creating like a
2:18:34
portfolio report things? Absolutely.
2:18:38
Yeah, I might do that. Yeah, 'cause I, it seems like
2:18:43
you, it could be many, many over a decade at least before you
2:18:48
actually start getting a report. Interesting stuff.
2:18:52
And that could be very, how shall I say, soul draining.
2:18:55
So maybe you want to do your own thing?
2:18:57
Go like independent. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm
2:19:02
doing. I'm doing that with the American
2:19:03
Communist Party. I'm doing that with Pierre
2:19:05
Trudenk, the Pierre Trudenk brand.
2:19:07
Yeah, well, think about it this way.
2:19:10
If somebody like the Young Turds or Turks or whatever they call
2:19:14
themselves, they can get up to where they are and viewed by
2:19:18
people, then you got a chance, right?
2:19:22
Absolutely, yeah. I look at Jackson Hinkle.
2:19:25
Jackson Hinkle made a name for himself.
2:19:27
So I definitely, I think I can. Might be the route to go.
2:19:31
What type of If you had a obviously as a journalist, what
2:19:35
are some of the main things that you would like to cover?
2:19:38
If you could be the kind of journalist you wanted to be,
2:19:41
what would it? What would we expect from you?
2:19:46
You know, I definitely want to focus on abuses by corporations
2:19:50
and the government and the definitely like the
2:19:54
financialization of housing. I wanted to cover Labor
2:19:57
Relations like ongoing strikes, stuff like that, you know,
2:20:03
unionization efforts, sort of very working class issues.
2:20:08
I I'd like to ask you an interesting thing, because I was
2:20:11
paying very close attention to what you were saying when you
2:20:15
and Brother Maverick were talking.
2:20:17
Why did you choose to use Christian morality or some of
2:20:22
the Christian leaders that you read about in order to endorse
2:20:27
communism for? Because while I am an atheist, I
2:20:31
do actually consider myself like a Christian atheist, like rooted
2:20:34
in a the Christian tradition of history and as a world
2:20:37
historical movement, even though I don't actually believe in God
2:20:40
or anything. I think that, you know,
2:20:41
Christianity is kind of proving itself to be a superior movement
2:20:48
of history. It's development of like
2:20:49
politics and art and philosophy, you know, I think, you know,
2:20:56
it's basically created the modern world.
2:20:58
So yeah, I, I do actually believe, I honestly do believe
2:21:02
that Christian like communism is derived from Christianity.
2:21:05
It's, you know, even hit like, you know, Satanists believe that
2:21:10
they think that they, they don't like communism because it's too
2:21:12
Christian. Hitler said that communism was a
2:21:17
Christian because, you know, he was a Pagan Satanist guy who
2:21:23
doesn't, you know, doesn't like, he hated Christianity and by
2:21:28
extension he had communism. So, yeah, I, I do believe that
2:21:32
communism does take up the flag of the Christian tradition.
2:21:35
And George Sorrell said, you know, the that part of human
2:21:38
civilization which contains the classical and Christian
2:21:42
traditions will never, you know, will never fall into decadence
2:21:49
and, you know, lack of greatness forever.
2:21:53
So yeah. So my goodness, all the things
2:21:57
that you just said about Christianity, especially the
2:22:00
complimentary stuff, you do realize that if you were in a
2:22:04
room filled with atheist, especially aggressive ones, they
2:22:08
they'd probably tear you apart like you're in a Pitbull ring,
2:22:12
right? Oh, absolutely.
2:22:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We like we in the ACP don't
2:22:18
really like the New Atheists and they don't like us so.
2:22:24
I, I will, I will say as you, you may know this about me, but
2:22:28
I was a former atheist and the, the older atheist or I don't
2:22:33
know, last generation atheist like the Hitchens and the
2:22:37
Dawkins and those type of folks of the world.
2:22:40
I had a great deal of admiration and respect for.
2:22:43
But I do not respect non believers nowadays with what's
2:22:47
been going on. I hope that makes sense to you.
2:22:52
Yeah, I I feel the same way about those people.
2:22:54
Like, I think Drunken Peasants has been extremely unfair on
2:22:57
you. I think they're basically a
2:22:58
tabloid. They cover bullshit drama.
2:23:01
They don't cover anything that really matters.
2:23:03
I think you have much more intelligent conversations about
2:23:05
geopolitics and stuff going on here.
2:23:09
I think the MAGA movement and like conspiracy theories and
2:23:12
libertarianism and stuff like that is actually like a
2:23:14
primitive form of class consciousness.
2:23:17
Do you think I'm going to ask you a really odd question about
2:23:21
this? Oh, that's weird, Robin.
2:23:23
Does Robin have Stone Cold Steve Austin on her avatar?
2:23:27
No, it's Bruce Springsteen. What's married you?
2:23:32
What's married you? It's Ross, Boss.
2:23:34
I'm just. Kidding with you?
2:23:37
I was going to change it, but I don't have a picture to put on
2:23:39
there and I I didn't figure you'd want me to do and I don't
2:23:42
want to let my camera on. I'm at the milk plant so I'm not
2:23:45
even supposed to have a camera on in here.
2:23:48
OK, well that's fine. You're welcome to the room.
2:23:51
I got to ask you things knowing that there's a lot of atheists,
2:23:55
especially in social media, that one of the reasons why they hold
2:23:59
to their position nowadays and do the things they do and behave
2:24:02
the way they do is because there's there's money.
2:24:04
More controversy, more crazy shit, more type of videos like
2:24:09
that. They make bigger money, sell
2:24:11
T-shirts. Do you think that capitalism has
2:24:13
caused the atheist a problem, at least the new age ones?
2:24:19
'Cause him a problem, like, Oh yeah, yeah.
2:24:21
Like this new new atheism is definitely, it's a decadent form
2:24:26
of liberalism. It's definitely an offspring of
2:24:28
capitalism. And it's kind of lack of, you
2:24:33
know, because like as Marxists, the way we view religion, I
2:24:37
mean, you're familiar with the opiate of the masses quote, but
2:24:40
I think a lot of people aren't familiar with what he actually
2:24:44
wrote in the in full when he was, I think it was the his
2:24:50
critique of Haggle where he wrote the opiate of masses
2:24:52
before he said like he got to that point, he said that like
2:24:55
religion is really the way for us to relate to the human
2:25:01
experience, to understand it because human experience hasn't
2:25:05
developed this full realization of itself.
2:25:09
And so, you know, even though he believed that religion would
2:25:11
nevely wither away through the socialization of the productive
2:25:15
forces and that we all be essentially become atheist
2:25:18
because of material conditions and that the development of the
2:25:21
free spirit would exhaust religious, the religious
2:25:25
character, you know, he did have a lot of great respect for
2:25:29
religion and he was a former Christian and I devout one at
2:25:33
that. Right.
2:25:36
Yeah, that's some interesting points that you put forth.
2:25:38
You probably should have talked about some of that during the
2:25:41
debate as well, but I'm sure people will hear it, yeah.
2:25:45
Yeah, I mean, I was, I wasn't writing notes.
2:25:47
I was just going off the top of my head of like, remembering
2:25:49
what he said. So I, you know, I probably
2:25:52
should have taken notes. I should have had more sources
2:25:55
and not just do this right off the top of my head.
2:25:58
But yeah, I think I think Brother Maverick will kind of
2:26:01
find that insight interesting. Well, dank, if this is something
2:26:04
that you're still going to hold on to, if you're still firm
2:26:08
about your political view, I can set up more discussions for you
2:26:12
and all that to do this. I don't have a problem with it.
2:26:16
There might also be another user out there that may be interested
2:26:20
in the future to have discussions about politics, but
2:26:23
he also likes to talk about religion is Matt.
2:26:28
Let me see, Matt, what is the last name?
2:26:32
Matt Powell. Are you familiar with him?
2:26:37
No. Matt Powell was basically kind
2:26:40
of like a a protege to Kent Hovind.
2:26:46
Are you familiar with Kent Hovind?
2:26:49
Yeah, I am. OK, Now I tried to get Kent
2:26:53
Hovind to actually come in and have a discussion.
2:26:55
But Kent unfortunately at his age, he, this is his own words.
2:27:01
He said, I like to discuss abiogenesis and evolution and
2:27:05
cosmic evolution. He goes don't really care about
2:27:09
all that other stuff. So unfortunately I couldn't get
2:27:12
him into it. And he does have kind of the one
2:27:14
track deal that he likes to debate about.
2:27:17
So I don't know if I'm going to have potential for that.
2:27:20
I do think Kent's coming in on Monday.
2:27:22
I mean, you can come in and try to, you know, talk to him and
2:27:27
see if he'll he'll take an interest.
2:27:29
But I'm not sure. Yeah, he don't care much about
2:27:32
politics. He's not.
2:27:34
He don't care much about doing politics.
2:27:36
Steven though I'm surprised Steven wouldn't debate it.
2:27:40
Well, Stevens told me that he he tries to stay away from politics
2:27:45
even though he technically very involved.
2:27:49
And he says the reason why is because it gives him anxiety and
2:27:53
also depresses him because he can't stand what he's seen going
2:27:56
on in the world kind of attitude about it.
2:27:58
But he is smart. He is very clever when it comes
2:28:02
to politics. Yeah.
2:28:04
We don't want, we don't want to cause him to be depressed
2:28:07
though, no. Yeah, you know.
2:28:09
I'm very, I have a very cold disposition to things, so I
2:28:15
don't really get upset by stuff like that.
2:28:18
From a young age, I always had that very cold demeanor.
2:28:22
Well, how do you put yourself in that kind of composure?
2:28:25
Even at my age, as old as I've become, I still get sickened by
2:28:29
the shit that I see going on with the American government and
2:28:32
the governments around the world.
2:28:34
How do you do that? How do you put this mechanism in
2:28:37
front of you to protect yourself from the evils?
2:28:41
It's called schizophrenia. Dennis, gracious.
2:28:44
Are you serious? Are you fucking with me?
2:28:47
No, I do. I actually do have a diagnosis
2:28:49
for schizophrenia but it's not that serious and I'm medicated
2:28:52
for it so. But we we don't want to adopt.
2:28:55
We don't we're Yeah, I'm glad we don't.
2:28:58
We don't need to get that right. I don't think we can.
2:29:03
Yeah, the I don't think. That's.
2:29:05
Fucking what? Is it called pimples or
2:29:09
something? You don't just get that.
2:29:10
So is what it is. Yeah, no, no, it's, it's a,
2:29:15
Yeah, it's a I'm sure you're born like probably with it or
2:29:19
develops over time, you know, Yeah it.
2:29:22
Developed what happened was I probably was experiencing some
2:29:25
symptoms of like psychosis before this because there was I
2:29:28
had some kind of erratic behavior.
2:29:30
But when I was 23, I went to Ghana on a research and I took
2:29:36
this medication which was anti malarial pills.
2:29:44
You have to take it for malaria, right?
2:29:46
Because if you get my mosquitoes get malaria.
2:29:49
So I had to take these this medication and it was fine for
2:29:52
the most part on the trip. But when I came back, I had
2:29:55
these crazy delusions. I was full on like delusional
2:29:58
and psychotic and eventually, you know, I was, I planted
2:30:01
myself in a psych ward. I got treatment and now I'm
2:30:05
fine. You know, I don't hear voices.
2:30:06
I don't have delusions or anything like that.
2:30:09
Very, very calm. The thing with schizophrenics,
2:30:11
like, you know, we're very, we're, I'd say we're moral
2:30:16
people, but we're very unemotional.
2:30:18
A lot, not a lot of stuff faces us.
2:30:22
Yeah, yeah, unattached, sorta. Yeah.
2:30:29
Well, I think that if you manage to get to the point where you're
2:30:33
a journalist, I think that'll actually benefit you.
2:30:37
Absolutely. Because journalists, they have
2:30:39
to see a lot of sick shit, right, Robin?
2:30:42
They got to put up with crazy stuff.
2:30:44
So yeah, that might actually. Be.
2:30:47
It would break me trying to do it.
2:30:49
Go ahead. This should be all come a sports
2:30:52
reporter or something, you know, But political, yeah, political
2:30:57
reporting is be really complicated sometimes.
2:31:01
Well from what Dank is saying it sounds like he wants to have
2:31:04
deep conversations with people and and learn about their
2:31:08
struggles and shit. He ain't looking to fuck.
2:31:10
Tell us what the NFL did. Yeah, I know that.
2:31:14
Was it like hell, like in America?
2:31:18
Like, yeah, like you were talking about the housing
2:31:21
situation, the home, you know, like the homelessness situation,
2:31:29
the, you know, healthcare situation.
2:31:36
It's just, you know, like it just seems like that we're just,
2:31:39
it's getting worse instead of better.
2:31:41
We're not addressing it at all. Yeah, yeah, I do feel that way.
2:31:49
I I feel like on both sides of the aisle, they're, they're not
2:31:53
doing a lot of things that are really, really pissing me off.
2:31:58
I'm. Probably going to go ahead.
2:32:00
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, go ahead.
2:32:03
I'm hearing I got a delay. I'm I'm probably going to lose
2:32:05
my health care. You know what I mean?
2:32:07
I and I buy mine. I mean, I work, but you know, so
2:32:11
I pay for mine, but like I have a pre-existing illness that, you
2:32:15
know, they would, they would refuse me for, for like my blood
2:32:18
pressure and stuff. And and I'm probably going to be
2:32:24
unlikely to because I do purchase it through the, you
2:32:29
know, the Medicaid that the ACA so or whatever it is.
2:32:35
Yeah, I'll say something like that would never happen in
2:32:37
Canada because we have socialized health insurance and
2:32:40
it's not perfect. You know, there's problems with
2:32:42
like huge wait times, but most of it is because of like cuts
2:32:46
made by Conservative, also Liberal governments to health
2:32:49
care, The fact that we're sending all this money overseas
2:32:52
to Ukraine and Israel, not investing in our healthcare
2:32:54
system and education to train doctors and nurses.
2:32:58
So, you know, we have our problems too.
2:33:01
But the the idea of, you know, going bankrupt or something and
2:33:06
because you have a pre-existing illness is just, it's
2:33:09
unthinkable in Canada. So, so do y'all have like see if
2:33:13
we like we can't file bankruptcy or anything on medical debt
2:33:16
either. Like you can lose your home over
2:33:18
medical debt here. You can, I mean you can go lose
2:33:21
everything you own over medical debt in the United States.
2:33:26
They can also garnish your wages and all kinds of bullshit.
2:33:30
Yeah, that doesn't happen there at all.
2:33:32
It's been about Robin, it's been about five years since I had any
2:33:36
kind of health insurance. And you know, you mentioned the
2:33:40
DP earlier. I think I actually, before I
2:33:43
went on to that show, I had had to go to the doctor and get some
2:33:48
surgery and they told me because I didn't have any insurance that
2:33:52
they weren't going to be able to give me good painkillers when
2:33:55
they were doing their surgery on me.
2:33:58
Oh my God. Oh, yeah.
2:34:00
I got to feel a lot of pain and suffering and I'm a big boy.
2:34:05
I've, I've, I can take a lot of shit and everything, but when
2:34:08
they take blades to you, it, it feels like someone who's holding
2:34:12
a lighter up to you. It's rough.
2:34:15
I almost. I almost.
2:34:16
See, I'm like, go ahead. Like, I don't know, like where
2:34:19
you live. Maybe like where I live, our
2:34:22
hospital, our local hospital actually has a lot of like
2:34:26
private donors. And so just in my county, I
2:34:31
don't know if this goes anywhere else, I don't know how other
2:34:34
hospitals do it, but a lot of the medical debt that is accrued
2:34:37
through my County Hospital gets paid off by like wealthy donors,
2:34:44
like anonymous donors and stuff. Like they'll, I guess they have
2:34:47
like, I don't know if they give so much a year for the funding
2:34:51
of that or if it just that they come in every now and then and
2:34:54
say, Hey, I'm going to pay off these people's debts.
2:34:57
But I know several people that have had debt up there that
2:35:01
somebody came in and paid their debt.
2:35:03
And so there is some, you know, some good people out there that
2:35:06
do stuff like that. But it's just, you know, but
2:35:09
still though there's some people that didn't get it taken care
2:35:12
of, you know, they just happened to maybe be there at the wrong
2:35:14
time. But that's awful to think they
2:35:17
was. They didn't give you
2:35:18
painkillers. Well, they, they gave
2:35:20
painkillers but they were generic and they didn't really
2:35:24
do anything for me. I could feel very better.
2:35:28
But so the one I, I made a huge mistake too.
2:35:32
After I got my surgery, I was still doing shows and still
2:35:37
talking about wanting to do a live shit and debates and all
2:35:41
that. People kept on saying because
2:35:44
back then I had almost 20,000 subscribers.
2:35:47
So people were wanting to always do shit.
2:35:49
I mean, it was always loaded and lots of people.
2:35:53
So I did it. But unfortunately I was still
2:35:56
showing myself on camera and I was wearing muscle T-shirts
2:36:00
because the surgery was done on my armpits and some other areas
2:36:05
on my body. So I had to wear muscle T-shirts
2:36:08
so they wouldn't go up into my armpits where the cuts were
2:36:10
made. I was, I was bleeding, I was
2:36:14
dizzy, I was having problems where I was having a difficult
2:36:19
time articulating myself. And that's where DP got most of
2:36:22
their content. I looked really fucking awful.
2:36:26
My hair was I've. Never watched them.
2:36:28
I've never. Watched them, they got the
2:36:30
videos of me where I was having serious health issues.
2:36:34
I didn't know if I was going to make it through the fucking
2:36:36
year. And that's what they got on me.
2:36:39
And they still today make fun of me the way I look back then and
2:36:43
all that. But I lost a lot of weight and
2:36:46
I've gotten healthy naturally because I don't have any kind of
2:36:50
actual health insurance and looking a lot better these days.
2:36:53
But back then, boy, I was I was hurting.
2:36:59
Well, if I would say, if this wasn't getting ready to probably
2:37:03
cut a bunch of people off of it, you should check into that.
2:37:07
Like, because I mean, I buy mine, I work and I pay for mine
2:37:11
and but like, it's, it's, it's they subsidized.
2:37:15
It's, you know, like it's based on income.
2:37:18
But I, you know, so I have whatever the whatever the income
2:37:23
is like that, the subsidy on that income, then I have to pay
2:37:26
the difference, you know, but but they can't refuse you for a
2:37:30
that that's the one main thing about the ACA is if they can't
2:37:34
refuse you for a preexisting illness.
2:37:36
We, we were. I have, I have pretty good
2:37:39
health care. I mean, it's like I have a like
2:37:41
a $6000 deductible or something like that, But I have like $35
2:37:46
for my primary care physician. That's that's just what I copay
2:37:50
where I go pay and that that don't that's I don't have to get
2:37:54
me my deductible to get that. And then I have like a $50
2:37:58
specialized specialist co-pay. So like my eye, the person that
2:38:03
does my eye shots, because I have that, you know, eye
2:38:05
disease, I only have to give them $50.00 for their visit and
2:38:11
that's usually like 300 and something.
2:38:13
And then it pays for the cheapest medication of my eye
2:38:18
shots. But my doctor signed me up for
2:38:21
something called the Chronic Disease Fund, which pays the
2:38:24
difference between the the expensive shot and the cheaper
2:38:27
shot. So.
2:38:30
Oof. Well me and my wife, we had
2:38:33
planned years back to we had put a bunch of money aside and we
2:38:37
were going to try to go ahead and do insurances but we put
2:38:41
most of the money in for our kids.
2:38:43
We wanted to make sure our kids were taken care of, but then my
2:38:47
wife got died. She became a diabetic and we had
2:38:51
to pay for the medicines for her.
2:38:53
And then my daughter had to go into the hospital because she
2:38:58
had had AI. Don't know if you ever heard of
2:39:00
a shunt before. Well, she had a shunt that was
2:39:05
going from her head down into her belly.
2:39:07
And it had been in there since she was a baby.
2:39:10
And they said that at some point in time when she gets in her
2:39:13
20s, you know, becomes an adult and she's fully formed in
2:39:17
height, we have to have it replaced.
2:39:20
And the thing basically it, it fell apart and she needed to get
2:39:26
help immediately on that. So we took her to the doctor
2:39:29
and, well, some of the stuff she needed was not on the damn plan.
2:39:35
It was a cheap plan and everything like that, and we did
2:39:38
the best we could, but that put us in debt for a little bit
2:39:41
we're taking care of now. But back then, it, it, it
2:39:45
crushed the shit out of us. It was rough.
2:39:48
Goodness gracious. Yeah, I feel, I feel like that
2:39:51
the, the, the, the best thing they could do is, is like stop
2:39:56
letting healthcare. You know, those places take
2:40:01
advantage of us. I mean, like the, the thousands
2:40:04
of dollars it costs to stay the night in a hospital.
2:40:07
And, and you know what they, the, the, the fees that, the,
2:40:12
that they charge you and all the hidden fees of like charging you
2:40:15
for all the stuff you use and, and the anesthesiologist and all
2:40:20
that kind of stuff. I mean, it's just like super
2:40:22
inflated. I mean, like they could, they
2:40:26
could do so much better on pricing and I feel like, and
2:40:29
then then insurance wouldn't be so hard to get because it
2:40:32
wouldn't be so expensive. It's like it just keeps on, you
2:40:35
know, I mean, they increase the prices and the insurance
2:40:38
increases the prices, and the only people that are really
2:40:41
getting hurt out of it is US. Yeah, absolutely.
2:40:46
That's, you know, that's one of the things I liked about your
2:40:49
Canada plans up there. And I've heard all good things
2:40:52
about the the way they do things up in Canada on that shut.
2:40:57
So as you can see, Dink and Robin, it's not a matter of me
2:41:01
being like 100% subscribed to any of these political
2:41:04
positions. I personally think all
2:41:06
politicians are fucking feral animals that are corrupt.
2:41:10
If someone comes along with a way that works where it also
2:41:13
makes it to where these assholes can't abuse us and manipulate us
2:41:17
and the system around us then I'm all for it.
2:41:20
But so far, everybody seems like they're out for themselves.
2:41:26
Oh yeah. Well, and it's not just one
2:41:29
person. Can't like there's so many
2:41:32
Bobbyists in Washington DC that are like just sitting there, you
2:41:37
know what I mean? Like there's, there's not a big
2:41:39
lobby group of just regular people, you know, I mean, we
2:41:43
don't have a lobby group. Every special interest group has
2:41:47
a lobby lobbyist and some of them have well funded lobbyists
2:41:52
and they are right there in their ear.
2:41:55
And we and that most time the lobbyists actually write the
2:41:58
legislation. I mean, like most, most
2:42:01
politicians in Washington now, if they want to introduce a bill
2:42:04
over a certain thing, they have their lobby group write the
2:42:07
bill, the legislation. So.
2:42:10
Yeah, I hear you there. Think if you don't mind.
2:42:16
And I'm not even trying to debate or argue with you or
2:42:19
anything, but I'm curious of as were you a former Christian?
2:42:25
Yeah, my youth, I was, I was raised Catholic.
2:42:27
I was an atheist at a young age though.
2:42:30
I got into like amazing atheists, drunken peasants, all
2:42:33
that. Then I, I, I actually like
2:42:38
basically declared war against that because I, I started
2:42:41
getting into like Marxism and communism.
2:42:44
I really started to hate the drunken peasants and I me and my
2:42:48
friends would like fuck up their wiki.
2:42:50
We would hack into their wiki and like fuck it up and do
2:42:53
hilarious shit. And there was like, I don't know
2:42:57
if you know this guy, fancy Badger, I don't know what he
2:43:01
goes by now, but he was like a pedophile.
2:43:03
He was exposed as a pedophile much later.
2:43:05
I had AI even did a video about that still getting exposed for a
2:43:09
pedophile and he was like 1 the one running the drunken peasants
2:43:11
wiki. They even disavowed him.
2:43:13
But yeah, like I have, I have beef with a drunken peasants.
2:43:19
They even banned me from their discord.
2:43:22
Yeah. Well, I have to, I have to say
2:43:25
this just to protect myself, but because you just said that you
2:43:29
and your buddies were involved in doing something to their
2:43:32
stuff, although I can't stand them and they make me want to
2:43:36
fucking vomit on a daily basis. I, I don't, I want to make sure
2:43:40
that people know that I would never endorse the destruction of
2:43:44
anybody's property. All right, I got to say that.
2:43:48
I don't. Work like either I I did not, I
2:43:53
was 14 and we weren't really hacking into it.
2:43:56
We just, yeah, it was a yeah, it was it was a fun time, I'll say
2:44:00
that. But I don't.
2:44:01
I don't recommend anyone not actively do that either.
2:44:04
Well, I had to say that because they like to play my streams all
2:44:08
the time and I don't want them doing what they did with Joseph
2:44:11
Mintel or whatever his name was. You remember that drama.
2:44:17
You remember the Joseph Martelli things?
2:44:22
No, I don't actually. So they were doing what they
2:44:25
were doing to me, to this guy called Joseph Martelli and a
2:44:28
bunch of other people. They were making fun of him all
2:44:32
the time because he was slow. Well what happened was is it
2:44:36
pissed him off. He was getting angry at them for
2:44:38
doing it over and over and over again.
2:44:41
So apparently he investigated them or had a friend do it and
2:44:45
found their their information, their personal stuff to find out
2:44:49
where they were. And he started talking about
2:44:52
going and getting on a bus and heading up there to him.
2:44:55
So they tried to say because he openly said this in one of my
2:45:00
shows and I actually told him no don't do that shit, don't go up
2:45:04
and do that, you'll go to jail. And plus it's wrong, yada yada
2:45:08
yada. And what they did was they
2:45:11
recorded the stream but then they cut it off.
2:45:13
Or I was warning him over and over not to do it so they could
2:45:17
make it look like I was participating in the bullshit.
2:45:21
Fucking assholes. Yeah.
2:45:25
I've never watched them. I've never watched them but.
2:45:30
So no, they're their show's dying, they're not breaking over
2:45:34
10,000 views these days, so it's, it's fine.
2:45:38
They're becoming extremely irrelevant.
2:45:40
Nobody even gives a shit anymore.
2:45:43
You know that to be, are they? They're not educational anyway,
2:45:46
are they? I like it like I watched, I've
2:45:48
watched a lot of atheist content but it's educational like.
2:45:54
No. When they, when they invited me
2:45:56
to go on the show, Robin, I tried to say, hey, can we talk
2:46:00
about science and philosophy and politics and all that shit.
2:46:05
I tried, but they said no. It's going to be mostly.
2:46:08
TJ didn't bullshit me. He said it's going to be
2:46:11
personal attacks. It's going to be nasty.
2:46:14
And I said, well, if you think I'm going to stand up there
2:46:16
while four atheists fucking try to slaughter me over personal
2:46:20
attacks, I'm going to need to get paid.
2:46:22
And he goes paid. And I said, yeah, you guys make
2:46:25
like $50,000 a fucking show. I'm going to need to make some
2:46:28
money if you're going to use me as the fucking clown in the
2:46:32
circuit, you know what I mean? So they ended up having to pay
2:46:36
me $1000 per show, which was nothing compared to what the
2:46:40
fuck they were making. So I did it.
2:46:42
It was money. Besides, I needed to pay for
2:46:45
some hospital insurance, you know what I mean?
2:46:49
Yeah, but I don't know, being abused for a whole show for
2:46:54
$1000? I don't know.
2:46:56
Well, think about it. Think about it.
2:46:58
Would you sit there and let somebody talk massive shit to
2:47:01
you for three hours? If you knew that you'd get money
2:47:04
that would be able to get some groceries or take care of some
2:47:07
medical issues? Would you do it for 1000 bucks?
2:47:11
I'd do it. I charged more initially, but I
2:47:13
yeah, probably if I was charged. Well, I tried they they actually
2:47:16
tried to go lower on me and I tried to go higher and shut.
2:47:20
And he started talking all crazy about Nah, you know, we'll just
2:47:25
get somebody else to fuck with. I know that they didn't have
2:47:27
anybody as interesting as me to get on there and shut, but I was
2:47:31
like, fuck it, I need some money.
2:47:33
Go ahead. You know, hit me with everything
2:47:35
I don't. Think he'd buy it?
2:47:37
I don't think anybody paid me $1000 anyway.
2:47:39
I'm not interesting enough to be worth $1000 so but.
2:47:45
That's right, you know. I think, I think like these
2:47:48
drunken peasant atheists, they're just like, all they do
2:47:51
is go after like poor people. You ever know that's.
2:47:54
Great. Yeah, they always go after like,
2:47:58
people like, you know, I don't like Shanny and Rev. I do think
2:48:01
they're kind of degenerate and they've done some fucked up
2:48:03
shit. But like, the way that they
2:48:04
could go, always go after them and like, popularize them to,
2:48:08
you know, as like, Wolcows is kind of disgusting.
2:48:11
Like, it's like the Oregon class faces significant issues that,
2:48:14
yeah, does, you know, kind of lead to the sort of moral
2:48:17
decline. But the fact that you're making
2:48:19
a show of it and making money off of it, it's just fucking
2:48:22
disgusting. I've tried repeatedly to defend
2:48:25
Shani and Rev, not because they call themselves Christians or
2:48:30
anything like that, because I think they're far from actually
2:48:33
doing anything morally like a Christian, but I do know for a
2:48:37
fact that Shanny is a bipolar manic depressive.
2:48:40
She's got manic depression. And Rev, he had just recently
2:48:44
lost his mother and shit and started drinking a lot of
2:48:48
alcohol and all that. And they decided that they
2:48:50
wanted to start making videos just insulting the shit out of
2:48:54
them repeatedly. And I said to them, and I said
2:48:57
the other atheists who were attacking them, I said, look,
2:48:59
this guy is fucking emotionally about to break.
2:49:03
You need to lay off of them. Stop this shit.
2:49:06
You know I said if it makes you feel all right, you can just
2:49:08
attack me and leave them alone. Just attack me because I can
2:49:12
handle it. But Revs aren't the fucking
2:49:14
line. And what did they do?
2:49:16
They dug in deeper and just kept on going after not only did they
2:49:20
attack Rev and Shanny, but then went after their children.
2:49:24
Fuck. Oh, that's, that's terrible.
2:49:27
What's the point? What's their point?
2:49:29
I mean what? What is their point?
2:49:32
They feel good about it and they get paid every time they make a
2:49:35
controversial video. So they just like click, do
2:49:40
things for clicks, right? Right.
2:49:44
Yeah, Shani used to be fairly popular, and not for good
2:49:50
reasons, but she was popular and she wasn't.
2:49:54
I'm, I'm going to say it right here, Reverend Shani are not the
2:49:57
most wonderful fucking people in the world.
2:49:59
They're, they're stupid kids. They they're, they think like a
2:50:02
kid does. They're not very, they're not
2:50:05
sophisticated in any kind of way.
2:50:07
They got mental issues and then the loss of his mother, but they
2:50:11
don't deserve to be fucking raped over and over and over
2:50:15
again like that. It's horrible.
2:50:18
Nobody. Is.
2:50:19
I agree. Yeah, It's disgusting.
2:50:22
It's, you know, I think American Communist Party, you know, comes
2:50:28
to power. There will be divine justice on
2:50:30
the drunken peasants. Well, I mean, I'm, I don't
2:50:34
think, I don't think we'll be ever be allowed to see that I'd
2:50:38
I mean, actually I'm not, I'm OK.
2:50:42
I mean, I like I couldn't, I couldn't agree with much of what
2:50:46
you said in the debate. Like, I like, like some ideals
2:50:51
of like taking care of like I like to say the social safety
2:50:55
Nets of, of, of healthcare and Social Security and stuff like
2:51:01
that. I think we have to do that.
2:51:03
I, I just don't, I think that, but I capitalist capitalism,
2:51:08
like the United States the, our most, like our best time when we
2:51:14
were like at our very best. And, and it was like, you know,
2:51:19
back during, after World War 2 and we had a lot of like social
2:51:25
programs. You know, they're all the
2:51:29
different, you know, the, the GI Bill was in place and there was,
2:51:34
you know, a lot of bit like building the TATVAS and, and all
2:51:39
the power plants and the dams and bikes and stuff.
2:51:43
And we had a maybe implemented Social Security and, and stuff
2:51:48
like that. And we had, and we were doing
2:51:50
good. And, but we've had a very
2:51:52
regulated capitalism. And I think that that's our
2:51:55
problem right now in the United States.
2:51:57
I think that we, I think that I like, I mean, I kind of agree
2:52:01
with capitalism that I feel like that it produces better ideals.
2:52:08
But I, I still though think that you have to regulate it because
2:52:12
the greedy will never become not greedy.
2:52:16
And I, like Elon Musk is proof that nobody ever has enough
2:52:20
money. See that seems to be the main
2:52:22
issue with your political position as well.
2:52:26
Think because it relies on people who have to be moral in
2:52:29
order for it to work. If they're bad people, they're
2:52:32
going to fuck up no matter what the system is.
2:52:35
And unfortunately, I don't think that capitalism is going to
2:52:38
survive too much longer either, not because the system has some
2:52:42
kind of flaw, but because the type of people running the shit
2:52:46
into the ground, they're, you know, on both sides.
2:52:49
Or I can't believe this, like big beautiful bill everybody is
2:52:53
talking about. Elon's right about it.
2:52:56
The Republicans threw a lot of bullshit into that that had
2:52:59
nothing to do with what we wanted in the mandate.
2:53:02
You know, we want to be able to see people like you be able to
2:53:04
have your health insurance. We want to see people be able to
2:53:08
get good jobs and all that. We don't want to see young
2:53:11
people struggling and being in fucking debt over the schools
2:53:15
they go to and that kind of stuff.
2:53:17
But it don't seem like none of these politicians care at all.
2:53:22
Well, and it's adding, it's adding like almost $4 trillion
2:53:26
to our debt. Yeah, because of the, because of
2:53:30
the, of the cuts to the wealthy. I mean, like, no, it's just
2:53:37
massive. I mean, like, I mean, I know
2:53:40
Trump's your guy and everything, but like between he, between his
2:53:44
two terms, but, and he's only 1/2 like 1/2 a year into this
2:53:49
one, he's added like over $7 trillion to the debt if this
2:53:52
bill goes through just in his administrations.
2:53:56
Yeah, I see that it, it looks like it'll go up.
2:54:01
There's a there's a lot of things that he's done right, but
2:54:04
this thing is going to end up destroying everything if it
2:54:07
doesn't work out like what he's talking about.
2:54:10
And I don't, I'm not a politician.
2:54:12
I don't know how they think they're going to be able to
2:54:14
slide this. But if they don't, then they
2:54:17
might get his wish after all. Because if they assist, the
2:54:20
economy goes to shit, then we have to change things around in
2:54:24
order to survive. Well, like, like they actually
2:54:30
are raising taxes on like single parents.
2:54:36
I thought they had talked about giving single parents a a
2:54:40
benefit or people with children some kind of benefit and tax
2:54:44
break. They talk, they talk a lot of
2:54:47
things. I'm like, OK, like see Project
2:54:51
2025, like I studied that real hard, OK.
2:54:55
And that's no, that's vote or whatever his name is, is the one
2:54:59
who wrote that. Whatever.
2:55:02
I can't remember what his title is, but and of course Stephen
2:55:06
Miller's involved in that. And it it lines out like like
2:55:12
60% of what has been accomplished in this
2:55:15
administration so far is is listed in the Project 2025 is
2:55:20
what they want. And one of the things they want
2:55:22
to do is they want to discourage single parenthood.
2:55:25
You know, like that was in Project 2025.
2:55:27
They want, they want people to have to be married and you know,
2:55:32
and so and so they're there. They want to make it harder for
2:55:36
single people to make it as a parent because they want more
2:55:41
families. And then instead of making it
2:55:44
and instead of like doing things that would help, like I don't
2:55:48
know what would make people become families.
2:55:50
I don't know. But you like forcing them to by
2:55:53
making it to where they can't live without being family is
2:55:58
kind of weird. Yeah.
2:56:02
I mean, I'm not, you know, I don't really like that.
2:56:04
They're not going to force me. They can raise my taxes all they
2:56:06
want. They're not going to force me to
2:56:08
get married. And that's all.
2:56:10
They can just kiss my butt. But, you know, it's, it's, it
2:56:13
just makes it harder on the, the people that the tax cuts that
2:56:16
they've got in this bill, the, the majority of the tax cuts
2:56:20
that like 90% of the tax cuts go to the very top earners in the
2:56:26
United States, like the, the wealthy.
2:56:29
And then they divvy up some little bit of tax cuts for the
2:56:32
middle class. And then there's less tax cuts
2:56:35
for the, the, the lower income, you know, and and then, but
2:56:39
aren't the tax cuts for the low income brackets expire where the
2:56:45
tax cuts for the wealthy are like 10 year tax cuts?
2:56:50
Oh boy. Well, I guess we're going to
2:56:54
find out Shit. Well, I mean, you're right
2:57:00
though, a lot of Republicans don't like the bill either.
2:57:02
A lot of voters so. Yeah, you.
2:57:05
Remember when you said that capitalism is going to die soon?
2:57:09
I'll actually go a step further. I think capitalism already died
2:57:12
where we essentially live in socialism for the rich.
2:57:15
The point is to make the socialism of the working class.
2:57:17
Everything's already done financially, but the only way
2:57:20
that can be done dank like what we talked about last time is you
2:57:25
know what? It's going to probably happen
2:57:27
either fucking way. Even if it's about socialism or
2:57:30
whatever. The American people are either
2:57:32
going to have to sit back and allow themselves to die like the
2:57:35
assholes did in the past, or there's going to have to be some
2:57:39
kind of revolution where the Americans stand up and say,
2:57:42
Nope, we're done with this bullshit.
2:57:44
That's the only way it's going to get resolved, but that's
2:57:48
going to be blatant. We we live in a corporatocracy.
2:57:56
Yeah, plutocracy. Yeah, rural of corporations and
2:58:00
bureaucrats. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:58:02
It's, it's like a, you know, it's court like, you know,
2:58:05
corporations are running and, and, and you know, like the
2:58:09
billionaires and stuff and. And that was the point I was
2:58:13
making that I don't think Brother Maverick really
2:58:15
addressed. Is that like this kind of thing
2:58:18
is just inevitable, like with the, you know, just the
2:58:21
advancement of the productive forces and kind of the outlay of
2:58:24
how history develops is that, yeah, like socialism literally
2:58:29
is inevitable. It's just, it's just it's about
2:58:32
who's which class controls it. That's the question.
2:58:35
He didn't really answer that. He made some other good points,
2:58:37
but he didn't answer that one really.
2:58:40
But but capitalism marks if we regulate it properly.
2:58:43
I mean, if we regulate it, it's like every time we, we, we get
2:58:49
it to where it's regulated well and people can make money and
2:58:52
the middle class can make money and the lower class can make
2:58:55
money and the, and the wealthy can still make money.
2:58:58
They just don't make as much money.
2:59:01
Then, you know, I just say it is that, you know, the, the
2:59:05
Republicans come in and strike down all the, the, you know,
2:59:09
they come in and take away all the regulations.
2:59:13
They, they take away and, and, and it just unregulated
2:59:16
capitalism. Like I said, nobody ever gets
2:59:18
enough money. They never like the greedy will
2:59:21
never say I've gotten too much money.
2:59:23
I'm done. I don't need to make any more
2:59:24
money. They just want, they want it.
2:59:27
They just just keep on. Well, the the Republicans
2:59:31
removed a lot of programs that were bullshit.
2:59:33
Like, you know, are there fucking transgender hamsters and
2:59:37
mice and shit? I mean, what the fuck do we?
2:59:39
Need a program like that. They weren't transgender.
2:59:43
They they they were transgenic bred.
2:59:48
They were like, OK, those studies right there like were
2:59:53
vital for Cancer Research, but they had nothing to do with the
2:59:59
with the gender of the mice because mice aren't don't have
3:00:02
gender. They have sex, but they don't
3:00:03
have gender. It was transgenic.
3:00:06
Like they take what it is is like if you have a mouse, OK,
3:00:09
they would take they would take a gene.
3:00:11
Like a human gene and they would put it in the mouse and see how
3:00:18
the mouse reacted to it like and stuff.
3:00:21
And and so it because mice have similar reactions to genetic,
3:00:28
you know, genetic things as we do.
3:00:31
And so they can predict like if they put this gene in this
3:00:34
mouse, how it will react to the medications that they're using,
3:00:38
like on cancer treatment and stuff.
3:00:41
See, I mean, like Fox is like, so not sciency and they don't
3:00:47
understand what they're talking about.
3:00:49
But it was nothing to do with transgender because they they
3:00:52
don't. Mice don't have genders.
3:00:54
Well, I mean, that's fair enough, even if you're right
3:00:57
that it was just about experimentation and fucking mice
3:01:00
to see how they deal with the diseases injected into them.
3:01:05
I mean, some people might even argue that's fucking horrific to
3:01:08
do to animals even though they're not as sentient as we
3:01:11
are. But besides that, there were
3:01:14
tons of programs having to do with the LGBT and all this
3:01:17
bullshit and having to do with Planned Parenthood that, well,
3:01:21
let's face it, there's some atheists and a lot of Christians
3:01:25
obviously, who are not into the idea of being forced to pay for
3:01:29
fucking people's abortions. You know that you.
3:01:32
Can't put the Hyde Amendment the Hyde amendment kept there was no
3:01:38
federal funding can be used for abortions.
3:01:41
Since the Hyde amendment, which was passed years and years ago.
3:01:46
The only Planned Parenthood offers far more programs than
3:01:51
abortion. They offer mammograms for women
3:01:55
who cannot afford to get mammograms.
3:01:58
They offer like you know, your, your yearly check up, your Pap
3:02:02
smears to check for cervical cancer and things like that.
3:02:08
They off they have a whole, they have a whole like suite of
3:02:13
programs and medical services that they give to lower income
3:02:18
women who don't have health insurance and they make it
3:02:21
affordable. And when you when they close
3:02:24
parenthood, you're taking away a lot of healthcare to women who
3:02:28
don't have any healthcare at all and can't afford it.
3:02:31
Do you watch that latest video I put up in the short section?
3:02:35
It's about 3 minutes long because they that's as long as
3:02:38
it does. But they found out that
3:02:41
politicians and some of these clinics were basically selling
3:02:44
baby parts. I, I, I don't mind none of that
3:02:52
that none of that stuff. I mean, I like, I've heard so
3:02:55
many rumors about stuff like that.
3:02:57
I I'm sorry, I just like if if it comes from.
3:03:01
Court documentation? No, it's Judicial Watch and they
3:03:06
got documentation. They actually sued the fuck out
3:03:09
of the companies for it. Why was the politician having
3:03:13
baby parts? The politicians and the
3:03:16
organizations behind it. We're basically getting paid
3:03:20
like 1500 to $3000 for fucking baby skulls and organs and all
3:03:26
that. Check out the video when you get
3:03:28
a chance. All right.
3:03:30
I will have like half of over half of abortions that are that
3:03:34
are like done in the United States today are medication
3:03:38
abortions. And like a huge majority of them
3:03:40
are done at home. And so they don't have access to
3:03:44
the fetus at all? When?
3:03:47
Well, these, these babies were months and months old.
3:03:51
These weren't just like little bitty, you know, just starting
3:03:54
out type of things. They were wanting to get the
3:03:57
organs off of the babies. They were illegal abortions then
3:04:01
because like abortion like 22 weeks was the, the, the, the cut
3:04:07
off for it for legal abortions after like after 22 weeks, there
3:04:12
had to be a, a medical danger to the woman before they would do
3:04:20
an abortion under, under, under Roe V Wade.
3:04:27
And, and I feel like that gives a woman plenty of time to find
3:04:30
out if she wants that she's pregnant and no.
3:04:34
And and if it is going to be a danger of her life, then she
3:04:37
should be able to to not decide not to keep the pregnancy if
3:04:41
it's if it threatens to kill her.
3:04:43
No, my my view is that if to the woman's going to die and the
3:04:48
baby is going to obviously probably most likely die in the
3:04:51
process anyway of the woman dying, then yes, you know, do
3:04:56
whatever needs to be done in order to save the the life.
3:04:59
If you can try to save the baby if possible.
3:05:02
So I'm not absolutely stringent like some Christians might be on
3:05:07
the matter. I don't, I don't think.
3:05:09
Because most women go ahead, most women that have abortions
3:05:12
already have children too. So like, not only is this woman
3:05:16
dying, she's dying and leaving other children like that, she's
3:05:22
they're losing their mother. So.
3:05:27
I seen a while back where a woman, unfortunately, while
3:05:31
she's pregnant, she found out that she had cancer and she said
3:05:35
that she refused to take any kind of cancer medication that
3:05:39
she wanted to be able to give her husband a baby.
3:05:41
She would. She felt like she was done
3:05:43
anyway. She she didn't think that she
3:05:46
was going to make it and she had the baby and then obviously died
3:05:51
during childbirth. It was extremely rough.
3:05:54
So yeah, I'm, I'm not stringent. I understand there's some cases
3:05:58
where you know, you got to, you got to, but.
3:06:00
She chose that, right? Yeah, she chose that.
3:06:03
She chose. The yeah, I mean that.
3:06:05
I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's a choice.
3:06:07
That's her choice. And, you know, I mean, I, I
3:06:10
would never want to force people to have abortions or pressure
3:06:14
people. We shouldn't pressure people
3:06:15
didn't have abortions, right, You know, we should we should
3:06:20
let like, but I I was I was supportive of Roe E Wade.
3:06:24
I like it had good. You know, it was regulated
3:06:26
somewhat. And like I said, 22 weeks was
3:06:28
quick enough. Soon enough that you found out
3:06:31
you're pregnant and the doctors knit were they felt secure in
3:06:37
what they were allowed to do and when they were allowed to do it.
3:06:40
So they weren't like freaking out and letting people bleed out
3:06:43
and die because they were scared they were going to go prison.
3:06:49
So, you know, Monday, 7:00 PM, I'm going to be doing shows and
3:06:53
definitely every Friday, I'll make sure absolutely that I'll
3:06:57
do Fridays. You going to show up?
3:07:00
If Kent comes in, he wants people to be able to come in and
3:07:03
argue with him. Oh.
3:07:06
Him. OK.
3:07:10
Are dink are you? Sure, the.
3:07:12
Last time we talked, Dink, you said that you you don't really
3:07:15
like to argue about anything happen to do with the religion.
3:07:18
Are you sure? You know, again, yeah, I don't,
3:07:23
but I'll try to maybe push him on politics.
3:07:26
He might not be interested, but. Now.
3:07:29
Yeah, I do want to, I do want to say something about abortion
3:07:32
though, which is that the the Bolsheviks actually.
3:07:37
So it is true that with the after the October Revolution,
3:07:43
they did legalize abortion. But interestingly, if you read
3:07:46
their literature, they expected this to be temporary.
3:07:50
So they actually, the way they saw it was that, you know, right
3:07:55
when you're developing socialism, you can allow
3:07:57
abortion. But once socialism is developed
3:08:00
and you have adequate child care, you know, maternity
3:08:04
awards, all this stuff and you know, good daycare programs,
3:08:08
that the need for abortion would be outmoded and that abortion
3:08:12
would be criminalized. And this lay actually happened
3:08:14
under Stalin. Stalin made abortion legal.
3:08:18
And I think that's that's the correct position.
3:08:20
I think. I think that like any socialist
3:08:22
should be, you know, maybe like temporarily allow abortion but
3:08:26
should want to criminalize abortion later on.
3:08:28
You sound like you're getting upset.
3:08:30
I don't think, yeah, I don't think abortion should ever be
3:08:33
criminalized. I think that every person, man,
3:08:37
woman, whatever, should have autonomy over their own body.
3:08:41
I do not. I mean, I do think that women
3:08:46
should take responsibility and and try to prevent pregnancy and
3:08:50
not use abortion as birth control.
3:08:53
But I do not, however, think that any human is born with the
3:08:59
that the authority to tell another one that they have to
3:09:04
allow someone else to use their body to stay alive.
3:09:08
That's the way I feel about it. And, and if you offer, if you
3:09:11
offer those like daycare programs like that right there
3:09:15
to women, you won't have to have, you won't have to
3:09:19
criminalize abortions because you will automatically see
3:09:22
abortion rates go down anywhere that those things happen.
3:09:26
Although then the only abortions that people will be having,
3:09:29
mostly because like a lot of low income women who get pregnant,
3:09:33
the reason why they don't have abortions is because that having
3:09:37
that baby will be such a negative impact on their life.
3:09:41
Like it restricts their ability to work.
3:09:44
It restricts their ability to, to work after they had the child
3:09:47
too, because they can't, you know, they can't afford day
3:09:49
care. So if you take care of those
3:09:52
kind of programs right there, there's a lot of women who
3:09:54
wouldn't abort their children. And, and then so then at least
3:09:58
medical abortions. And we we don't need to ever
3:10:01
criminalize medical abortions because that results in dead
3:10:04
women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with
3:10:07
that. I think that medical abortions
3:10:10
should be allowed. I just think like, you know, I
3:10:13
think, you know, accessibility, contraception, good child care,
3:10:18
yeah, that'll naturally decrease the rate of abortion.
3:10:22
But I still think because reproduction in industrial
3:10:25
societies, inherently social phenomena, I do think that the
3:10:29
state should criminalize abortion still, simply because I
3:10:36
don't have this individual's framework where, you know,
3:10:39
someone can just end a life because they have autonomy over
3:10:42
their body. I don't believe that.
3:10:44
Little Robin and Dank. Hopefully you guys will make it
3:10:47
on Mondays and Fridays and all that.
3:10:49
I'm going to be shutting this down here.
3:10:51
It was good conversation with both of you and I think it was a
3:10:55
good debate. I think it was very interesting
3:10:57
on both sides of the equation. You guys going to see me on
3:11:00
Monday or are you busy? Yeah, I'll probably and I may, I
3:11:07
may contact have the Brett contact you dank if you would be
3:11:10
interested in maybe a debating abortion.
3:11:14
Sure. I don't know that Brett wants to
3:11:16
have that on his channel. No, I'm absolutely fine Anything
3:11:19
that you guys want to debate if if you're serious, but I'm going
3:11:23
to tell you something, even though you may come in sometimes
3:11:26
it seems like we're just shooting the shut.
3:11:28
If somebody's serious about having a debate, then you'll
3:11:31
have what happens happened earlier.
3:11:34
Dank with an actual person who is going to.
3:11:37
He's going to bring the fucking receipts, if you know what I
3:11:40
mean. All right.
3:11:41
Yeah, Yeah. OK, so I'm going to shut her
3:11:44
down. I, I it was a pleasure to talk
3:11:47
to you both. Bye bye.
3:11:51
See you.