Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 748: Creating Leopold Landscapes and Better Deer Habitats with Doug Duren

Transcript

Ep. 748: Creating Leopold Landscapes and Better Deer Habitats with Doug Duren · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by the twenty twenty three National
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Dear Association Deer Manager of the Year, Doug Durrean, to
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: discuss a more holistic approach to managing wildlife habitat for
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: deer and other critics. All right, welcome back to the
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Wired Done podcast, brought to you by First Light and
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: their Camo for Conservation initiative, which supports the National Deer Association.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: But today's episode is with the recipient of an award
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: from the NBA just recently. It is my friend, mister
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Doug duran He is a land consultant. He is a
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: well known modern philosopher of the hunting and conservation world.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I'd say he's a really good guy. He's a wise
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: man and a friend, and he today is joining me
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: to do two things. Number One, we're gonna chat a
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: little bit about the hunt that I share with him.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: This past season in September, as he gave me access
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: to a nearby farm through his Sharing the Land program
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: on which I was able to hunt killed a really
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: nice buck and a dough out there back in September.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that hunt a little bit.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about his Sharing the Land program,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: which helps connect landowners with access seekers, folks who want
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to get out there and find a place like can hunt.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: He's got a really cool way to help people do that.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that, and then we're
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: going to spend the bulk of our time together talking
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: through Doug's approach to managing wildlife habitat, managing is private property,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: managing the during family farm in a way that's good
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: for deer. It's good for deer hunting, but it's also
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: good for the rest of the ecosystem. We talk about
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: this biotic focus, the larger biotic community, the larger ecosystem,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and how we can do things that are good for
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: our hunting but also good for everything else out there.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: This is the theme I talked a pretty good amount
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: back during the Back forty Project for those of you
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: who remember that show in that time period, but I
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: want to bring it back to the table here today
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: because we are kicking off a month long series on
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: habitat work, and one of the themes I want to
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: continue to return to is how we can utilize the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: properties that we manage not just for shooting deer, but
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: also to make sure that everything else around us is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: flourishing too, because all of these things are connected. So
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the fate of the birds and the bees and the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: rabbits and the soil and all that stuff is intricately
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: intertwined with the white tailed deer and all the other
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: things that we care about, you know obviously as hunters.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: So what we're gonna try to explore here today with
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Doug and probably in some of the other conversations this
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: month is how we can do these kinds of projects
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: in ways that help our hunting and everything else and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: it all circles back. So that's the plan today, That's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the conversation we're going to have. We're gonna have some
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: other folks this month that are more tactic focused. We're
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: going to talk to some people that are going to be,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: you know, talking through how to strategically place or create
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: food plots or strategically create betting improvements or different ways
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: we can funnel deer through a landscape the way we want.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But that's that's not today. Today, we're going to take
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: a kind of thirty thousand foot over you. We're gonna
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: step back, and we are going to look at you know,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: how can we approach this habitat management way with a
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: little bit more diverse viewpoint? I suppose so, as I mentioned,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: the first part of the conversation is a little bit
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: more hunt focused as far as our story and my
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: experience with Doug. If you just want to get right
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: to the habitat conversation, fast forward, maybe about thirty ish minutes,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that's about when we get into the habitat dialogue. I
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: think it's some good ideas. There's gonna be some good
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: ideas for us all to ponder. There are some good
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: questions to think about, and hopefully this will leave you
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: with a few new ideas, maybe a new way of
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: looking at things, and some inspiration to get out there
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: and get to work on your own back forty if
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you have one, or volunteer on a friend's property, or
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: volunteer in public land, any way that you can get
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: out there and get your hands dirty. Improving habitat for critters.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: It's fun, it helps, it makes a difference, and I've
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: certainly seen the positive benefits in my own life. So
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: that's my pitch today. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being here. Now let's get to my chat
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: with mister Doug durrec All right here with me now
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: on the line is my pal, mister Doug Duran. Welcome
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: back to the show. Doug.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me Mark. This is fantastic, great
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: to catch up.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure and I love any excuse to
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: get to chat with you more, but today is extra special.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I've got to embarrass you by talking about in front
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: of you the fact that you are not only famous
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: now but award winning. You are the famous and award
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: winning National Dear Association Dear Manager of the Year now, Doug, congratulations.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Mark, and congratulations to you. I can turn
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: that right around on you to and being appointed to
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: the board of Directors for NBA, And it's great that
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: we're both involved with the organization and it's really I
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: think it's been really gratifying to see how the organization
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: has evolved, and I think by awarding me, uh, in
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: my efforts this this award, it's maybe a you know,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: they're they're really highlighting the kind of stuff that we've
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: been working on, and I think that's the most important thing, right,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the ideas that we've that I've been working on a
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: group of people that I've been working on it with
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: and you know, and how that impacts the bigger conservation
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: community and and deer and deer hunting. So yeah, thank you.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: But it's that that's the cool part about it about
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: it for me, is that it's highlighting all these ideas
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: and and uh and other folks that are working with me.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a great example of
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: NDA putting their money where their mouth is kind of
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and and showcasing someone who's you know, doing the work
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: that that we want to be doing and talking about
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: and using your platform. And it's and it's not just
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: about killing a big giant buck, right, It's it's really
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: about the bigger picture kind of things, which we'll be
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: talking a lot about today.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: So it's sure, yeah, great and maybe slightly controversial. I mean,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't I wouldn't shy away from the fact that
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: there are times when I say things that are in
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: stand for things that there might be people in our
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: community that would have a little bit of issue with.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: And but I think that I think that not only NDA,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: but you know, guys like you and I can have
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: these conversations and sort of thinking evolves over time and
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: and so that's, uh, that's part of it as well.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's well deserved. So I'm happy for you.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you got that recognition. I'm glad that people
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: are seeing you know. I don't think there's many people
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: who have not yet been exposed to you and what
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: you're doing. But if this is an opportunity for more
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: people to be exposed to that, I'm very glad for that.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: So so that being said, then I want to rewind
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: the clock maybe four months now, four or five, four
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: months something like that, back to September when you were
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: so gracious as to have me out to your farmhouse
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: to spend some time hunting in your neck of the woods.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: We didn't get to do a podcast right after that.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I did a show with Tony talking about the story
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: from my perspective. But today, what I was hoping to do,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: if you think this is a decent idea, I was
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: hoping to spend a little time kind of getting your
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: your perspective on my time there and my hunt there.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about how I
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: got access in your program that I kind of got
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to trial run, and then I want to talk about
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: a little bit of what you alluded to there second ago,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: which is kind of what you and your property has
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: come to represent or stand for in the deer hunting community.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So that's that's my framework. I just want to make
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: sure you know I prepared for this, Doug. And with
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: that said, I came, I hunted, We spent some time together,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: we had some great conversations, and then before you knew it,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I was gone. What did you think about our time together?
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: What did you think about what was your perspective on
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the hunt? The story?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I have to say that one of the things
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: I like about you and people that I become friends
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: with and stay friends with, it's almost as if the
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: conversation never ends, right. It's like, sure, there's segments to it,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: but I felt like when you pulled in, you and
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Lauren pulled in, and we had done some preliminary discussions,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: but you guys pulled in, and you know, I'd worked
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: with Lauren before, certainly have been hanging around with you
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: long enough, and it was just like we just picked
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: up kind of where we left off. Yeah that the
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: same birds under the saddles are still there, but the
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: good fun part of it was still there. And the
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: real disc ushians that we've had about deer hunting and
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: conservation and land management and and philosophy and all of that,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: we just picked it up. So from my perspective, we
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: had a bit of an outline. I mean, it was heck,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: it was that you got here on the opening weekend
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: of the bow season, which I think was like the
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: fifteenth or sixteenth of September this year. Nobody hunts here
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: that early, which was a really interesting thing for me,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: you know know, and then I'm not a bow hunter, uh,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: to kind of see how that was going to play out.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Honestly as a little like, I hope this works out
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: pretty well, because I know there's always a little bit
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: of pressure to to produce and you know, and especially
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: here at the Durham Farm, where it seems like every
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: time cameras show up that we have great success and
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: great fun and all of that, and but that's it's
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: almost like how times you how many times you do something,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: you still get that feeling in the pit of your stomach, right,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the cool things about hunting. So
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: what I thought was most interesting about it was that
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: you and I had some exchanges. We went back and
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: forth on with some onyx maps, and you know, I
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: pointed out a couple of things, and you asked some
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: really good questions about what's going on up there. And
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I should point out the folks that because of some
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: arrangements that I have with bow hunters. With with some
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: bow hunters, I didn't want to hunt have you hunt
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: the farm, but I have I managed the property next
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: door and have the hunting rights for it as well,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: so I was able to give you access to that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: And my friend who who's a part of that program
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: with me over there, Chip Bird, also was gracious enough
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: to say, heck, yeah, I have Mark he can hunt
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: over there. And so we don't know that property that well.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: I know this place like the back of my hand,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: so that time of the year, a bowhunter taking the
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: thoughts and the stuff that I have noticed. Having that
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: exchange and then you pulling in and we had a
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: really good conversation about where you're gonna hunt, how you're
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: gonna hunt, and well it all worked out pretty well.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: So from that standpoint, it was a really cool It
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: was a really cool beginning to it and then sort
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: of the setup and it wasn't anything different than I
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: would I do, like with my bow hunter guys who
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: come here the short standards as I like to call them,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: those guys, you know, they come and they ask a
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: lot of questions and then they go out and kind
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: of do things on their own. You kind of went,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: you went a little bit different than that. Really, you
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: really were interested in what my perspective was on it all,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: and I guess you were most interested in the local
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: knowledge there, and there's nobody more local than me. So
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: I thought it was we had great fun, We have
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: good you have good success. I thought we had great fun.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't argue with that at all. It was
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: a it was a really good time. And I do
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: think that, you know when when whenever I go to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: hunt a new place, the fun of it is putting
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: this puzzle together. Right, You've got like a blank slate
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: and you're slowly trying to put things together, and so
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you arrive to a brand new place like this and
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I've been able to look at the
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: maps online and I've got all these ideas and I
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: have assumptions, but then coming in it's like, hey, you know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: if you have the opportunity to like fact check a
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: little bit, why not. So so yeah, some of the
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: most valuable time spent. There's two things that were the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: most important for me. One was when I got is
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: from a hunting perspective to clarify. One when we arrived
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: there and we've got that big map on the wall
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: of farmhouse and I was like, hey, Doug, let's talk
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: about the map. And I was like, here are the
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: things that I was looking at, and I was thinking
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: and and is that right? Is this really what this
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: thing is? Or is this really what I think it is?
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Here?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And you're like, oh yeah, that thing's this thing. You're like,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: oh no, not that that And then you or one
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: of your buddies there mentioned, oh yeah, I'm down in
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: that spot. I was pointing at this drainage and they're like, yeah,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: down that drainage, there's apple trees. And when I heard that,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: that was like whoa. That was like such a key
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: little thing that I would not have known from just
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: looking at the maps, right. But as soon as I
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: heard that, I knew, like, okay, we got zero in
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: on that and pay attention to that. So that was
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: number one. And then the second thing, you know, the
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: first night I rushed into it, I was I was
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: over excited and I wanted to hunt, and I thought, okay,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I can hunt based off of just what I think
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: is there on the map. And so I went. And
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: you know, as you know, that first night, it was
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: different than I expected. Where I went, it didn't work
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: out the way I thought. I couldn't see what I
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: was hoping i'd be able to see. I was assuming
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: i'd be all to see a lot and learn a lot,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and I just didn't put myself on the right spot.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So that next morning, you know, I told you just like, hey,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: you know what, I don't think I should hunt tomorrow morning.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Think I need to like lay eyes on a few
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: more things. And and you know, we talked about the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: fact that you drive around on your side by side
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: a lot, and I thought, you know, I wonder if
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I could just tag along with you as you drive
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: around to you know, pretend like you're doing your farm chores,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: and I could see a couple of these things, like
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: with my own eyes and maybe actually set up a stand,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: you know, without the deer noticing anything's different than Doug
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: doing his normal stuff. And and so that was that
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: was key because that was what allowed me to go
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and see that apple tree spot that seemed so intriguing
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and then be able to confirm like, oh, yes, this
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: is exactly what I hoped, and then be able to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: get in there and get set up in the right
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: spot with you know, the cover of the UTV being there.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: You know, if if I try to go in there
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: without that, you know, those bucks might have been bedded
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: nearby and spooked out of there, and maybe they wouldn't
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: have moved through in daylight two days later, the dough
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: might have spooked worse and not have been there the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: next day. So so those two things were huge, and uh,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: you know, wouldn't have beenossible if I didn't have your
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: local knowledge and your amazing chauffeuring skills there on the
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: side by side. So thank you for that.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the old canam comes in handy, and you
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: know it's a that a that was an interesting little
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: drive and I'm glad we were ready, right, I mean,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: part of it was Okay, I'll just take you by here,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: and you're like, no, no, I think i'd like to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: be ready to go and maybe set up, because why
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: you drive by there twice? Right? So we went by
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: and I kind of went there's the apple tree, and
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: what about that walnut tree over there? And I don't
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: know it was thirty five or forty yard distance, but
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: a farm road that goes up through there that gets
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: traveled a lot. So we went past it. I slowed down.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: You kind of looked at both and I remember your
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: eyes kind of like this. I like the looks of this.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: We went up past, like I would often do, just
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: checking on things. I turned around, came back down. I
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: never shut it, can am off. I just sat there.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Lauren stood up in the back. You hopped out, and
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I'm just observing you this whole time, because you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I'm taking lessons from the master, and watched you go
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: over there. SA same look when you're up in the tree.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You got up in there and you looked over and
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: your eyes were really big, like this is really nice.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: If you remember, there's the cornfield that we drove up
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: through that that road comes up through. There's water and
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: tag alders down on that bottom, which comes into play later,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: of course, and then betting area up above, and gee,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just there's just so much about the
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: terrain of that property was so cool. And I don't know, Mark,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: were you in there ten minutes? It seemed like you
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: got in and out of there.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You had to get set up. Yeah, it was something
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like that was pretty quick. I just I remember getting
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: in there, getting my sticks and saddle platform up there.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I trimmed a couple of branches confirmed range on where
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I thought deer might come through, and then it was
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: slip right out to walk my exact path back in,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: so I didn't lay any more scent than I had to.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I noticed that, and off we went.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was and I mean it was a slick setup.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: And then you left it alone until the next morning,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: as I recall. Yeah, and then and you parked over
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: by the buildings, walked in on that road where again
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: there had already been that the tractor and the ATV
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: and the farmer goes up to the ridge over there.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: All that activity had been there. So you guys really
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: were able to make a pretty stealthy entry there.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, worked out, worked up very very well. Even
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be good, but I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: could not have predicted that it could have been that good, right,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: two days in a row, two deer, I mean, it was,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: it was. It was the dream scenario. It's everything that
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: you hope for. But you know, nine times out of
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: ten when you find a spot that you think will
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: be great, you know, nine point nine times at ten,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: even the best spots don't actually work out, right, So
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: it really really worked out.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: You know. I know you've told the story when you
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: were talking with Tony that so that first morning you
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: killed that dough and you knew you had killed her,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: but being the ethical hunter that you are, you gave
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: it an hour before you went after and she went
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: right into those tag holders down there in the bottom.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And you know, I remember marketing it on Onyx and
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: looking at it and everything, and that deer wasn't that
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: dear wasn't one hundred yards from where you shot it? Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I mean pretty much straight to the west. And when
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: we're getting that call from you, gee, this is really strange,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: and you are describing what happened to me, he said, Well,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I already took the head off of it because it's
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: clearly the deer that I shot, but it's half eaten.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And what an interesting thing when folks get a chance
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: to see this whole thing. When with with the the
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: episode that you put out, I'd asked him to look
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: at bobcat activity. Since then, there was a whole kind
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: of speculation, Right, we have a neighbor who's got a
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: beer on it. Yeah, And I remember Ronella was like,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: as a coyo, you know, so, yeah, this doesn't look
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: like what a coyo does at all. And there's a
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: bear in the area, so maybe that. But that thing
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: had to be right on top of it, right, I mean,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: it had to run by it and smell it. But
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: then recently I've seen some studies and some work done
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: on bobcats, and I remember how it had to hide,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: peeled back and it it's like it removed the back
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: strap and clean that was taking the meat between the
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: ribs hadn't really actually the rear end hardly at all
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: like a coyot typically would. To see all that was
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: just I was just fascinating to me, and I know
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: to you. We speculated about a lot. I actually got
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of questions about it. And then putting the
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: trail camera up and getting nothing.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: That was the most surprising. I couldn't believe that something
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: else didn't come to get get a piece of it too.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Well, the kyote went by and kind of gave it
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: a glance like this, and that was it.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Really weird.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Vultures and a hawk And then after about a week
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: a grinner apossum got in there and he worked on
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: it for a while. But yeah, it was pretty, Uh,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: it was really interesting. The whole thing was really interesting.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: There was something foreboating about it when we got there
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: and looked at it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like the rest of the wildlife in
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the area kind of felt the same way, apparently because
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: they steered clear. There was something something not quite right. Well,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: it would have been interesting, you know, if that was
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: a diseased deer, you could have wondered, like, I, can
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: they sense something here? But she wasn't. She was not
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: CWD positive, So it wasn't like there was some kind
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: of problem that, you know, a predator could possibly somehow sense,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't. I don't know if that's a thing,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't know what. I have no explanation
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: except it was interesting.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: And for me from my management perspective, not only from
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: my deer herd, but also from the disease issues and
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: all those concerns that I have. Here was a six
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: to eight year old dough. She was a big old girl.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Obviously we didn't I guess you didn't. There was really
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: nothing there at salvage after it had been everything that
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: I'd been done to it. But that she was CWD
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: wasn't detected was a little bit of a surprise because
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: it seems like with older deer were getting more of that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: But uh, but not and uh yeah, the whole the
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: whole event with that dough was just really uh, it
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: was just really interesting. It's it's been on my mind
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: ever since. It's just so.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it was bad luck, bad luck that
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: a predator got her so quickly, but on the flip side,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: very good luck. And that I killed two mature deer
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: in your area, that six to eight year old dough
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and then probably a four year old buck and both
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: were CWD negative or not positive, I guess as the result.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So so yeah, that was that was lucky and I've
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: been happily eating that buck, being very thankful it wasn't positive,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: So that was that worked out? Well? Yeah, So, so
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: you talked about the fact that right you have this
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: permission next to your farm and you were able to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: grant that to me, and we talked, you know, this
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: summer about me coming up and hunting with you, and
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: we talked about, yo, well maybe I could get you
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: access to this property next to us. And then you
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: had the idea like, Hey, if you want to hunt here,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: why don't we treat it just like anyone else else
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: in the Sharing the Land program that you run, Doug,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And why don't you run through that process and we
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: can kind of, you know, show you what this is like.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And it gives us a great opportunity to talk about
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit And that's what I want to do
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: here now, Doug. Is for people that don't know about
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Sharing the Land, Can you give us a rundown of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: what the program is? What could someone expect if they
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: wanted to get involved in this like I was able to.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: So Sharing the Land is a private land access initiative
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: that myself and a group of other people started a
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: few years ago and I've been sort of experimenting with
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: and now it's become you know, now it's a real thing.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: And it's a it's a cooperator's network in which we
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: connect the access seekers and private landowners to the purpose
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: of providing conservation cooperation on properties and in exchange for access,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: so that access seeker is spending some time helping the
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: conservation on a property and in return they get access
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: to it in whatever way they work out with the landowner.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: And in some cases it's it's you know, wide open access,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: and in other cases it might be very limited. The real
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: theme of it is is that people are providing that
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: they're they're providing conservation benefits to either that land or
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: somewhere else. So one of the questions I first started
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: asking people when I when I started thinking about this
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: was what's your contribution to conservation? And really it started
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: with with me with a guy who had been volunteering
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: for some of our local conservation programs. Seeing a young
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: guy and conversation with him. One day, he had told
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: me that he lost his his turkey hunting access and
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, what season do you have and
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: he said, well, you know, told me what season. I
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: was like, I don't think I have anybody hunting the
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: farm that weekend or that week So if you don't
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: find another place, let me know and we'll be able
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: to work something out on the farm. And he goes, well,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: that's very nice of you guys, like, look, man, you're
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: volunteering to do this conservation work for the community, not
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: necessarily on my farm, but for the community. So that
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: was sort of what motivated me. So sharing theland dot
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: com is where you go to do it, and there's
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: an opportunity for access seekers, which we have a lot of.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: And I will tell people right now that Cal and
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I did a podcast when we was here recently for
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: the deer season and poiwe has just got hundreds of
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: access seekers and two landowners signed up. So as you
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: might imagine, we have a lot of supply on the
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, a lot of demand on the access seeker side,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: but less supply. So we're approaching a thousand access seekers
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: who have filled out conservation resumes, and these are folks
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: from all over the country and we have only but
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: still a lot I think thirty properties in different parts
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: of the country. Interestingly, I get a lot of requests
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: to hunt here and then we have at there's another
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: property that's not far from here that we're just started
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: getting access to and as you might imagine, landowners are
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: a little they like slow walk this in. Access seekers
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: are like heck, yeah, let's go, and you know, landowners like, well,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: let's we'll see how this all works out. So well,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you can understand that a landowner would be a little cautious, right,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is their place, this is their thing,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: this is their property. So there's been a lot of
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: interest from landowners and then they it sort of takes
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: there's a number of steps we kind of have to
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: go through with them for them to really embrace this idea.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: But the conservation resumes are really important. The fact that
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: these access seekers are you know, I mean it's a resume,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: just like if you're applying for a job. And so
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: with this idea that we're connecting people put your best
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: went forward as and not you know, filling them full
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: of blowny or anything, but that that an access seekert
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: really has some uh something to offer. And you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: we've had landowners who are looking for very specific things
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: like I need a carpenter or I need a somebody
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: helping me with prescribe fire and those sort of things.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: And so of course that kind of thing is in
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: higher demand than somebody goes, oh, I can come and
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: help you fixed fence or rock roll a ployer or something.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Pick rock. You can always pick rock. That So when
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I when people ask me, well, what can I do
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: to make myself more attractive to a landowner, I was like, well,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: develop your conservation resume, join an organization like a like
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: a Pheasants Forever, or go to you know, university extension classes.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Go to these landowner days where landowners are learning about
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: land management, and go there and learn the same things
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: that they are in. Gee, you might even meet a
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: landowner there. The idea, of course, is that we're trying
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: to be a meeting place and a connector. But what
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: we really want to do first and foremost is to
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: highlight these stories and put examples out there, and we've
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: been doing that. We recently filmed some stuff with on
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: X down and we went to a place down in
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Iowa and a farm where it's actually a native seed
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: company who became both a sponsor of sharing the land
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: but then also became a participating farm. And we had
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: about a half a dozen people who came out there
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and who helped for a day of you know, on
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: a native seed farm, there's a lot of manual work
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: and some of it was like digging plants undesirables out
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: of a particular field, and then we were doing hand
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: stripping and that kind of stuff. And then we went
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: back and we filmed the day of hunting as well.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So they are real, you know, great arrangement there, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: it worked out really well on both sides at a
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: blast we went pheasant hunting. We've also there's there's these
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: properties in North Dakota that I was talking to you
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: about that where they're doing shelter belts and removing wire,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: but then also doing plant other kinds of plantings. And
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: and then the exchange was they got to come back
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: pretty much whenever they wanted, as long as they contacted
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: the landowner to upland bird hunt. One of those landowners
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: just contacted me and said that he is also now
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: interested in limited deer hunting because they're deer hunters. And
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: you know, it's sort of like with me, I'm not one.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I have this arrangement with these bow hunters for the farm,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and I have the well's lease arrangement that I have
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: next door. It's a management at Lisa was sort of
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: a hybrid. I helped manage the property and or you
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: were able to hunt. So bow hunting's kind of out here.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: And then the opening weekend of gun hunting, my brother
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: and my nephews and well, we had a We always
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: have something going on, it seems like with with you know, Medior.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: This year we had a thing with Canam. But then
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: the rest of the season, the people who were my
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: who are my conservation cooperators, access seekers had access to
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: come in and then gee, the the later bo seasons,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: the dough Derby antlerless hunt, and then the holiday hunt,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: and we did squirrel hunting, we did we've we've done
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: some foraging, we've done uh man, we just had days
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: where people got to come here and shoot and you know,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: just a lot of different things that you can you
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: can think of. So what I asked landowners to do
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: is to think about what it is that they do
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: on their property and then what are some of the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: other possibilities, and we list some other possibilities so you
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: don't have to give up you know, one hundred percent access.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: It's sort of like, you know, it's almost like you
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: have a menu of things that that won this this
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: is the menu of things I need help with and
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: then here on the other side is the menu of
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: things that I'm willing to provide access for. And then
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: we what we do when these things come in is
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: we try to match them up. And really what we
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: do is send the most likely conservation resumes to the
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: landowner and then they take kind of ticket from there.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: There's an agreement involved, and there's you know, there's insurance
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: involved there. They can the landowners wonder about reliability, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: there's an insurance policy that they are the access seekers
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: can get and so we've kind of kind of run
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: through every you know, issue that we can so if
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: people are interested in it, and boy, this twenty twenty
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: four is the Year of the Landowner. We're going to
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: be doing a bunch of recruitment of landowners. I'm going
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: to a thing this Saturday where there's a bunch of
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: landowners who were presenting. Following Saturday, I'm going to another one.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: I'm out at pheasant Fest then after that. So we're
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: really going to try to recruit more landowners because, as
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: I said, we have plenty of demand and not enough supply,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: and especially in areas where you could imagine one of
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: the things we did last year also working with the
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: National Dear Association and with Pheasants forever. Is that we
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: did a learn to hunt in the early season, during
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: the bow season. Because it was DNR sanctioned, we did it.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: We were able to do a gun hunt in September.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: It was the weekend after you were here, I think.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: And man, we had you know, we had fifteen properties.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: It was almost like fifteen hundred acres as it all
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: adds up, and twenty two new hunters, twenty two mentors,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: and some of those mentors were the landowners. So they took,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: you know, folks out and these are guys, who are
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: you interested in big giant bucks? But they also understand that,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: holy moly, I got a andlerless concern here, management concern.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: So all of these things kind of come together. We
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: can introduce people to hunting, get them out there early
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: in the season before the best bow hunting is going
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: going on. And we had a real successful hunt. I
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: think we took twelve or fourteen deer. We had. We
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: did a butchering demonstration and he heck, even one of
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: the landowners because it was sanctioned and as a result,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: if the landowners said it was okay, they could shoot
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: a buck. And so he's sitting there in the blind
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: with one of these hunters and his buck comes out,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: and the access or the learn to hunter was like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: you know, wow, that's really cool to see it. He goes,
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: you want to shoot it? So can you imagine? I mean,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the landowner got so wrapped up and so interested in this,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: and I don't know, had the bigger smile that hunter
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: or the land So that that whole thing of where
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: you're getting something out of it, I get so much
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: out of it. I mean, you and I had a
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: blast together. But it's not that much. It's no different
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: really when I have my my cooperator's access seekers come
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: and we do things together, and it's just if it
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. And that's one of
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: the things I keep telling the landowners. It's really nice
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: to do this, and it's really fun to do it.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: And then you talk to the access seekers on the
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: other hand, you know with the same idea that this
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: needs to be beneficial to the land It needs to
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: be beneficial to the land owner, and it should be fun.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: And let's talk about what it's like to be a
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: good guest. And you could do a you could do
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: a seminar and what it's like to be a good guest.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: You really could. You're a great guy to have around.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, you make a
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: good point that actually wouldn't be a bad podcast actually
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: either like an episode just talking about how to be
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: a good guest or how to be a good hunter
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: on somebody else's land, right, I mean, there's some certain etiquette,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: there's a certain set of things that can help you
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: maintain access and permission by doing the right things, by
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: helping out, by creating relationships, all those different types of things.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we assume like, oh, it's just obvious, but not always.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: So that's more than just a compliment, which I thank
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you for, but also a good idea. So yeah, something
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: to think about, Doug with with this, Like you're talking
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: about this menu of different ideas, and you mentioned the
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: menu could apply both for the access seeker and the
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: access provider, right, So the access seeker they can have
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a menu of things that they can add to their
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: conservation resume, all these different skill sets or experiences. But
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: then on the flip side, for the landowners, there's always
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: something more you could do, right, And and that's kind
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: of where I want to push you a little bit
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: or or points you, I guess because you are someone
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: in the deer hunting world. Now that you are the
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: NDA Deer Manager of the Year, you have you have
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: now the authority, Yeah, you have the you know, the
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: authority and the title to speak to, to speak to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit of how unique your own personal menu
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: has been compared to some others in the deer hunting world.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And this is something that I think, you know, Steve's
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: giving you an opportunity to talk about. So people I
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: think are well aware of the fact that you manage
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: your property a little bit differently than the typical property
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: we're going to see on the Outdoor Channel or something
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: like that. Right, you have gone to great lengths over
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the years to manage the Duran family farm in a
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: more holistic way with a more of an ecosystem focus
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: versus just a make big deer focus. And that's kind
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: of where I want to spend a little more time here,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: because we've talked around the edges of this over the years,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: but we've never really dove dove deep into it. So
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, first, what was the impetus for that with you,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Like how did that philosophy get into get under your
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: skin and become the way you want to do this?
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Because I know, like you had a journey when it
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: came to really focusing on big giant bucks and then
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: you've you've kind of traveled along a slightly different route
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: over the years. But also when it comes to just
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: like how you worked with the land, was that from
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: an early age or early in your management kind of
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: journey that hey, I want to do this a different
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: kind of way or at first where you just thinking, man,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I want big deer and this is how we're gonna
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: do it. Can you just give me a little insight
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: into how this came to be where we are.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Sure? So you know, you know the long story about
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: the farm being in the family for so long. We're
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: in our one hundred and twenty first year now, and
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: it was it was never about This wasn't a property
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: that was ever The primary reason for it was to
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: have for hunting. My great grandparents bought this property for
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: the timber and they were they had a sawmill and
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: they managed the woods. I you know, I don't know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I can't I can't say. Oh, and here's how they
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: managed it exactly I can tell you what the results were.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know what their intentions were at the time
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: because it was one hundred and twenty years ago. I
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: never met those people, but I can tell you that
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: I cut my great grandfather's trees a few years ago,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: right because it was there. Some of those trees were
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: it was their time to go. I did speak with
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: my grandfather a lot a bit about it. He died
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: when I was eighteen, and he also had sawmills. So
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: it was first and foremost a place that was producing
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: timber for saw mill production. And then this farm, you know,
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: quintessential Wisconsin dairy farm. You know, the red barn, the
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: white house, the white milk house. It looks like the
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Wisconsin license plate was carved out of it. And of
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: the four hundred acres, you know, one hundred acres tillable,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: sixty acres of pasture, two hundred and forty acres of woods.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: So from that perspective, when I was as a kid,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: we it was a farm, and we went out to
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: the farm to work. I grew up in town two
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: miles away, you know, I didn't didn't grow up in
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: this house, and so hunting was something I was squirreling,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: rabbit hunting and that kind of stuff. I mean, this
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: is you know, the early nineteen seventies, and you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: my buddies and I went squirrel hunting and rabbit hunting
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: and stuff. But when you came time to go deer hunting,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: we actually went up north, which is a whole other
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: We could have a whole discussion of what was going
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: on in northern Wisconsin right now, but we went up
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Worth a few years because that's what my dad did,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: you know, after World War Two, because that's where the
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: deer were, and so it wasn't really a consideration. But
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: but then by the time in the I guess the
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: first year I deer hunting was nineteen seventy one. Boy
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: does that make me feel old. But by the mid
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: by the time I was getting through high school, we
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: were deer hunting around here because gee, there were deer
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: around But it was never about oh, when we're going
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: deer hunting, you know, like or we're going deer hunting
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: for big giant bucks. She just went out. You had
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: an antler, he had one buck tag and in those days,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: four people had to apply to get to maybe get
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: a dough tag. That's how few deer there were, but
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: they the Department Natural Resources, are trying to do so.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: It was it was about farming, you know, if I
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: say it was a yardstick, and still to this day
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: it may seem a little different now, but you know,
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: if the farm is a yardstick. Hunting was in those
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: days maybe three or four inches. Now now it's maybe
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: a foot, you know, but it's still about these other
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: specifically about deer hunting. Though. When my younger brother Matthew,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: my late brother Matthew coming up on or just past them,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: sorry is the twenty eighth anniversary of his death, he
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: was he was, he was into it. The rest of
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: us kind of left the area, and matt was the one,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: he was the youngest of all of us, and he said, yeah,
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I want to stay around here. He became an electrician
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: and he lived here in the farmhouse, and he was
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: a bow hunter him and I know you'd have got
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: along great with him. Ironically enough, he's exactly he would
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: have been exactly Steve's agent and U. But he also
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: gun hunted and he fished and they small game hunted
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: all that. And he's really the first one who said
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: to me, you know what we gotta let some of
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: these little bucks go and see what happens. And you know,
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: that was thirty five years ago, and so that kind
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: of stuff was happening. I remember, Oh there was some
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: noise about, but I mean a big giant buck in
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: those days was you know, a two year old. And
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: so yeah, thats changed quite a bit, and and we
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: certainly had the potential for all that. And every once
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: in a while, some big ol' hog haud get killed
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: and it would just be like, where did that thing come?
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: As you get that up north and oh, no, I
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: got it, you know, domind Hawkins crit or something. People
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: just were surprised by that. And so all of that,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: you know, is evolved. That evolved, and Matt sort of
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: got me thinking about it, and we'd agreed that we
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: were going to start doing that, and then unfortunately he
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: died in a car accident right down here in the highway,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: and uh, I sort of took that idea. And you
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: always get a little emotional when I start thinking about
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: him and talking about him, especially especially this time of
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: the year. But took that idea. He said one time
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: when I killed this deer, that that was the best
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: buck I killed my life. Up to that time. He goes, oh, yeah,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: but he'd have been a nice buck next year, and
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, what do you mean that? That was
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: his point, right, It's like, you know, like the deer
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you see behind me. Then we didn't have that kind
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: of thing are out here then? And uh so that's
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: kind of what Guy's going in sort of in his memory,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: maybe even in his honor, you know. That we started
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: doing a little more of that, and I got a
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: little wrapped up in the idea of let him go
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: so he can grow and U and then our neighbor
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: killed on agg tags killed like twenty four antler, this
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: deer one winner. And the next year it was like bucks.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: You know, I like to think I pay attention. And
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: I looked at that and went, well, that's pretty cool.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: We needed to kill more antler this year. So that
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: was twenty five years ago. We started killing more antler
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: this year. From a habitat perspective, we were just managing
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: our forests for our woods in a managed forest kind
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: of way. You know, we were doing it was a
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: productive forest kind of way. And boy, I learned pretty
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: quickly that if if you're doing good forest management, you're
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: probably doing good habitat management as well. You know that
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: you're you're you're creating edge and you're getting younger successional
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: for uts, and gee, why isn't why aren't those We
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: don't see as many deer hanging out in those big
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: trees most of the year except for that time when
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: the you know, like in the white oaks start dropping
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: their acorns and then they're in there like crazy, you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: and all of that kind of stuff starts happening. So
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: you know, you think about that, and I mean, ultimately
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: we were we were managing this property sort of in
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: the traditional way of my great grandparents and grandparents, and
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: and then what of the things that my dad taught me.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: And then we started getting foresters involved because I you know,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: I mean I have a bit of a conservation background
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: and horticulture background, but it's like I learned a long
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: time ago that you don't have to be the smartest
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: guy in the room. You need to find the smartest
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: guy in the room, right, or the smartest guy about
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: or a smart person about that subject that work with
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: a whole lot of different foresters out here now and
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: biologists and you know, I you know, looking for that.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: So we did the let him go so he can
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: grow kind of thing for a while and killed more
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: more does and then you know, twenty two years ago
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: now CWD showed up sixty miles to the south of
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: US and we were immediately in the CWD management z owner
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: the herd reduction zone is what they actually called. And
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: it kind of made sense to me from an animal
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: husbandry standpoint, right that you that that if you have
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: a bunch of animals crowded together, they're more apt to
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: get if there's a disease and more apt to spread
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: it around. So that was it sort of made sense
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: to me. And it also gee, when we were killing
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: more deer, especially our antler. This year, we're getting bigger bucks.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: So all these things were going together. We're doing this
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: forestry work, and I started putting food plots in, thinking
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: that was cool and being a farm kid. You know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: I got a tractor, I got a disc, I got
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: a seat planner, I've got all this stuff, and it
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: was interesting to do that. But then I ended up
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: sort of seeing the I don't know the folly in it,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: but sort of the it wasn't multi dimensional enough, right,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, you and I have have this joke of
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: course when I say food plots in farm country like
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: taking sand to the beach, and it is a little
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: bit like that. I mean, I go out for a
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: drive this even after we're done, and I'll see a
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: hundred year on a drive and they're gonna be just
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: out on fields. So why would I go and put
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: more of that in? What is it that they what
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: is it that they need? And what can I do
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: for the whole the entire biotic community. And you know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I was read Leopold when I was in high school
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: and certainly was influenced by him then and as I've
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: gotten older, So one thing I'll warny you about is
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: as you get older, he become more philosophical. And when
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: we were doing the let him go so he can
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: grow in management here the nice buck next year management,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: we talked, you know, we talked about I didn't it
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: was pretty loose. I mean, you had to wear sombrero
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: if shot too small of a buck. You know, it
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: wasn't like, oh, this was like we were finding people
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: or yelling at people or anything like that. And when
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: it was younger hunters and when it was newer hunters
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: and that kind of stuff, it's like, go ahead and
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: shoot a deer that you're going to be happy with.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Let's get some deer under your belt. Then my nephews
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: and my daughter, you know, all of that was happening,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: and then I had a kind of an incident with
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: a family friend who you know, made a really egregious area.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: He shot a real tiny buck fifty yards from him,
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: and you know, I kind of barked at him about it,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: and he felt bad about it, and I felt bad
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: about it. I was like, you know, I don't want
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: to do that anymore. I don't want to manage people
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: or have people wondering if that's going to be big enough.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Britney Brothers, who was in an episode that we filmed here,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: apologized for shooting and she had full permission. She never
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: shot a gear before and she goes shot a little
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: one and I'm like, okay, I never want to hear
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: that again. So I'm not saying that you have to
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: shoot the first buck that comes by, but you can
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: shoot the first buck that comes by if you want to,
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Like you did you shot the first buck that came by?
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I guess, well, I suppose that's true. The first buck
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I had, the first buck I had been shooting range
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: was was a shooter. But I want to I want
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: to clarify something, which is you had this trajectory, you
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: had like a deer management trajectory and a habitat management path.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Like there's the two parallel things, right, and your your
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: deer management decisions have changed right as you went from
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: you guys are shooting anything to then let them go,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: let them grow. And now more recently that's changed because
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: of CWD and you know, getting more folks involved. But
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: the habitat side of things and let them go, let
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: them grow. What am I trying to say here? Managing
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: for what's right for the landscape, or what's right for
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the larger ecosystem, or what's right for the forest, what's
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: right by what Leopold might say, like that does not
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: have to be mutually exclusive from somebody wanting to practice
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: let them go, let them grow. I want better deer
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: hunting too, right. I think when I look at what
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: you have there, I think what I'm getting at here
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: is when I look at your situation, you are someone
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: who said that I want to manage my landscape for
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: the health of the ecosystem, not just big deer, but
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the product of you managing your landscape for the health
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: of the ecosystem is that you do have great deer
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: hunting and you do have big giant bucks. So I
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to say those things doesn't have
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: to be an either or decision for someone listening. It
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: can be a yes and type situation. Right, I think
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: you are living improve for that.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: You're exactly right, and living proof is you know. I
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: guess that's one of the things that the benefit of
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: time and age really is. I talked to folks all
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: the time who ask me about sort of shortening the
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: learning curve on, you know, on improving their property. My
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: question is is who do you want to improve it for?
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: And they're like, well, for deer, And I'm like, well,
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: you know, the most part deerre going to live real
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: well around here, no matter what I mean this and
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: this is you know, this bigger southwest Wisconsin area. But
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: you're exactly right, those things are not mutually exclusive. We
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: can do we can do what's best for the biotic
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: community as a whole. You know, Leopold said that whole
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: thing about a thing is right when I actually wrote
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: it down. A thing is right when it tends to
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty, which I thought was
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: an interesting word for him to have in there, the
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: tends otherwise. So what's the biotic community, right? It's not deer,
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: it's not turkeys alone. It's all of these other things.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: But like I said about forest management, like managing our woods, well,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: gee uh, one of the smartestportishers that I've worked with,
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: who's not even a deer hunter, asked me after we
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: did some work, well, you know, how's this affecting your
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: deer hunting? And I said, it seems to be better,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: and he goes, yeah, isn't that interesting? Good forest management
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: is good deer habitat management. And then again, just making
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: a vague reference to what's going on in northern Wisconsin,
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: part of what the habitat part of one of the
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: issues they have up there's a habitat issue. It's just
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: it's a degraded habitat and you know, maybe some overmature timber,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: but when you look at a piece of property like ours,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: and you know, and I didn't get we've spent a
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: little time out here, but you know, we've got some
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: brand new woods starting over where we did the shelter
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: would harvest, and you know, one hundred years from now,
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: by god, there's going to be a big oak trees
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: up there again. And the next whatever how many generations
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: that is frum now they're going to be cutting great
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: Grandpa's trees too, and only this time it'll be dugably
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: great Branda, right. And then we have areas that we
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: you know, we're just letting it go, sort of a
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: legacy area. There's big, old, giant oaks in there, and
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: we're in this wonderful position because of that two hundred
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: and forty acres, eleven different stands of timber where we
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: can do that. And I don't take that lightly, but
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: every decision I make about the management of this property
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: is done thoughtfully and with the advice and help of experts,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: and then it all gets held up to the mirror
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: of it's not ours, it's just our turn that we're doing.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: We're planning and implementing today something that's honoring the past
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: and doing the best we can for the future, for
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: the present and the future. And I think philosophically that's working.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I know, the philosophically is working really well for us,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: and I think that that was what Leopold was getting at.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, just stealing all this stuff from Leopold, you know,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: the land ethic, that idea, that and I've been there
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: with the land ethic the reason he evolved into that.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: And he died when he was younger than me. He
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: was sixty two. He had evolved and he talks about
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: that in the Sand County Almanac about this isn't this
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: is the land ethic is something that he came to
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: over time. And I think that the lesson of Leopold
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: is maybe we can get that land ethics. We can
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: rather than it being the the result of a lifetime,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: that those lessons can be learned that and even the
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: lessons need to be learned over time, I guess, but philosophically,
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: you can develop a philosophy pretty early on. And it's
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: been really gratifying that it's in our just our turn
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: has been has resonated with people because it's pretty straightforward, right,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, Okay, it makes sense to me, and so
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: is this a good thing to do for now in
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: the future. Man, I've done plenty of things in my life,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: not just on this farm, but it all seemed like
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: a good idea at the time, and maybe they didn't
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: work out that well. And we certainly had some of
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: that in conservation as well. It's really interesting when you
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: start to read Leopold's notes on Vacation. I was reading
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: a collection of essays that hadn't really been published, most
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: of it hadn't been published before that, and you know,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: he was really into upland game birds, and which was
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: kind of interesting because it was like peasants. You know,
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: there's in the natives, of course, but pheasants are an
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: exotic but he liked hunting pheasants. And the cool thing
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: about that was is that the habitat that he was
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: concerned about and was creating was for more than that
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: one particular species. And that's what I find to be
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: really interesting that if you can work on a property
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: and do conservation on a property that is thoughtful and
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: looking forward, doing the best we can now for the future,
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: learning from the past, the diversity that can happen has
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: a lot more impact than managing for one particular species.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: And it's not even just because it's the right thing
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: to do, but it's also it practically leads to better
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: results too. So by that I mean like everything in
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: the ecosystem is connected, right.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: So.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: What you do impacts the bugs, which impacts the birds,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: which impacts the plants, which impacts the deer. And what
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: you do with the deer impacts the vegetation, which impacts
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: the small mammals, which every little you know. I think
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: it's mirror who said that you pull one thread in
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: the world and everything else is connected. And so I
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: think that it's having that kind of multi species or
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: bigger picture set of goals, like managing for the community,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: not the individual. It leads to better results for your
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: deer hunting or whatever it is, your focus on your pheasants, whatever.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: And I think there's this this opportunity though, because people
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: listening to this podcast want quality deer hunting, right, That's
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: what I've always wanted, and so I've always looked at
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: what can you do to get better deer hunting? And
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: so often what we realize, though you brought this up earlier,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: is that our deer situation most cases is like the
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: least of our problems in the area. Right. Deer do
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: pretty darn well and a lot of habitat types around today.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: They are incredible survivors. They're overpopulated in many places, But
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: all around them are all these other animals, all these
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: different insects, birds, game birds, songbirds, you name it, amphibians,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: all sorts of other critters that are rapidly disappearing population
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: declines fifty sixty seventy eighty percent, even common critters around me,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I mean around you, like we are, everything around deer
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: are kind of in crisis mode, unbeknownst to a lot
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: of us. And then deer just kind of standing there
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: as the bathtub are draining around them. And so I'm
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: increasingly realizing that if we, as folks who care so
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: much about deer, if we don't plug the hole in
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: that bathtub, because the whole thing is falling down around deer,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: eventually it will impact deer and the thing that we
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: first and foremost care about or brought us to this table.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And so it would behoove us to start doing some
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: things to help the rest of that system, to keep
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: the thing that we originally loved around too. And I
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: think we've got a huge opportunity to do that. And
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: it's not it's not just altruistically, it's also self serving,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Like if you want to enjoy the thing you love,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: we probably have to look beyond just how do we
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: grow bigger deer? How do I get the best food
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: plot or the best tree stand location? Right?
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I couldn't agree with anymore. That's been the
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: interesting thing to me about all of this. You know,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: it's like the accolade, like the deer manager thing, trying
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: to do the right thing for the entire community biotic
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: community ends up being the right thing and best thing
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: for the thing that we are most in the case
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: of people who are most interested in deer hunting. So
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: then what happens Then what happens when that thing that
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: you are most desirous of deer becomes a detriment to
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: the rest of the biotic communit And that's what we
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: have in southwest Wisconsin. And it's becoming a detriment to itself.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: And this is where I get into arguments with people,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: or people take offense at some of the things that
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: I you know, but other people, you know, the offense.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: Why do you want to kill all the deer? I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: don't want to kill all the dear You know. What
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: I want is I want healthy deer. I want a
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: smaller population. I want a healthy population, and I want
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: a healthy ecosystem. Those things can all happen at the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: same time, but here's what we need to do to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: do it. Unfortunately, there's a lot of discussion these days
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: about box biology, you know, like out west or up
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: out west. I guess with the hunting lions all that stuff,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: and then in northern Wisconsin people just want to kill wolves.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: Big wolves are cool. I think they belong in the landscape.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: I think we need to manage them, and I think
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: it's really unfortunate that we're not getting to manage them.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: But one of the things that I've noticed is that
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: about about a lot of folks, but particularly about deer hunters,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: is that they want to project more than they want
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: to go. What what is it that I can do better?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: Looking in the mirror is kind of a tough thing.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: I had this conversation with a neighbor about you know,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: it's just not like it used to be. You know,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: I've been hunting on that same stump for twenty years,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, you got to move stumps, man, But
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: it's you know that they're not if they're not evolving,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: and he thinks it's well, it's because this or that
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: is happening, and It's like, there's all of these things
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: that are happening happening around you, but the one thing
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: that you can really impact is what your behavior is.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: It didn't that doesn't work anymore, Let's do that at
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: U school like that. No, it goes like this. You
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: know that that is really one of the things. But
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: people calling for science based management, you know of wolves
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: of bears, of cougars, whatever, what about science based management
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: of deer. If we were following science based management and
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: white tail deer in southwest Wisconsin, we would have still
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: have earn a buck. We'd have I would think that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: we would have an earlier done season. We don't start
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: deer hunting until the week before the Saturday before Thanksgiving.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: And the reasons for that are they're political. Right now,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: We've got politicians want them being involved with the deer
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: hunting up north and we're going to They want to
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: outlaw killing does for the next four years. The biologists
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: are all like, that's that's not that's not the problem.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: If the problem is I'm not seeing the problem, you know,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: And then you have these politicians have these public hearings
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: and people are hollering about the deer hunting is no
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: good anymore. It's like, well, what are all the reasons
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: for that? And what they look at is wolves or
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: we're killing too many doughs or you know, and rather
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: than one specific thing, there are all these it's multi
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: layer and that's where the scientists, where the biologists come in.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: Let's talking to a dear friend of mine who's a
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: dealer wildlife biologist yesterday, and one of the interesting things
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: that he has said to me in the past. He
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: didn't say it yesterday, but one of the things that
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: he said was, you know, it's really hard to being
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: a deer biologist because I thought that our job was
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: to manage and the resource for the benefit of the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: people of Wisconsin. It seems like, because of the way
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: the system has worked and the politics and whatnot that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: are involved, is that what we're really managing, or being
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: allowed to manage because of the laws that have been changed,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: is just the deer hunting experience. And people don't seem
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: to think we're doing a very good job of that.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't know, man, I think you
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: do a hell of a job of it. Part that
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: is because we're looking in the mirror and here and
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: doing it you know, we've had an incredibly successful year
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: this past year, and we've had, you know, in terms
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: of just numbers of deer killed killed, forty seven deer
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: on this six hundred acres this past season. So six
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: hundred acres is less than a square mile, and this
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: certainly is an all habitat. But and people will say
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: to me, I can't believe that. You think there's sixty
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: five deer per square mile of habitat in this county.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: And I was like, I think there's more, because that's
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of the number that gets banteed above, right,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: So I actually think there's more because over the past
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: five years now, we've averaged almost forty deer a season
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: that we've killed, so two thirds of the deer. And
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: I've got trail cameras out right now and we'll fly
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: a drona on that and those numbers are still way up.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: Part of it is, of course, that neighbors are not.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: There's you know, a bunch of different variables in it,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: and a big part of it is is quite honestly,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: the six hundred acres is freaking deer habitat.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Great habitat.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: They might be going out and in the winter time
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: and spending time in those you know, those fields and stuff.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: But they are living here, and so I'm not you know,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not taking sand to the beach. I'm not putting
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: food plots in. I'm doing habitat improvements. Sure, I'm overseating
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: trails with with with clover and doing those sort of things,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: but we're we're we're doing it on a high level.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: And then we're also really taking that deer herd down.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: And look what we did this year. You got a
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: four year old, cal got a five year old, We
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: got three, you know, we had four or three year olds.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: We killed some younger bucks. Also. I still got really
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: nice deer on camera. I mean, like I didn't send
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: them to you because you might have been hey, you know,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: little late season. I actually did welcome a couple of
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: my operators that come in late season hunt. They never
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: got a shot tomorrow, I think it's the last day,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: but they saw some of those deer. My neighbor shot
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: a five year old buck that, unfortunately that I had
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: on camera a bunch of times. Unfortunately, he was CWD
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: positive and he was starting to show the signs. My
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: other neighbor got a five or six year old buck.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: He doesn't test, so we don't know, but that deer
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: was definitely in decline his antlers the year before. I
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: think even sent you a picture, big giant buck, big
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: drop time on him, cal and I saw him the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: night before opening day, and then the neighbor shot him
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: the next morning, and see and the other way there
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: was another one. So really, you start to take these
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: overlapping areas here and we're killing a half a dozen
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: big mature deer and there's still some left. And the
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: guys over to Durant Farmer, we're just laying them down.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: And I've got some other neighbors now they're doing the
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: same thing. You know. I mean when I say neighbors,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: they're not necessarily touching this. But you know, a half
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: a mile away property another half a mile away, we're
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: not going to run out of white tail deer from
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: killing them with with guns and boats or cars. But
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: the impact that that the disease is having is is concerning.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: So again it's sort of balance and all that stuff.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: You keep on bringing up the food plots thing, bringing
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: sand of the beach, right, so I gotta I gotta
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: do my pushback on that to you and see.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: It to the bait.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a bite on a bite. So so you
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: and me had this debate when I was down there visiting,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: and I understand your take. Your take is that there's
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: food all over the place, so why are you putting
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: more food out there? Right? And my rebuttal to that
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: was twofold. It was one part which was, well, yes,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: but with a food plot, you can be more strategic
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: with it in ways can help you actually shooting deer,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: you know, hunting, putting the plots where you want them, better,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: positioning or designing the food plot to give you a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: better shot opportunity. With a bow, you can plant something
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: that's unique compared to what's on all the farm fields
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: around you. So you can be the ice cream shop
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: in the in the neighborhood and draw deer in because
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: of that, et cetera, et cetera. So there's all these
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: hunting things and you kind of rolled your eyes and said, yeah, whatever,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: you weren't impressed with that. I stand by it for
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: folks who for folks, for folks who especially bow hunting,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: you know, want to increase their opportunities. There's there's a
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: reason there. But I think my best argument, which I'm
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: curious if you have done some more thinking, and I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: think I'm wrong on this, But my best rebuttal to
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: you on this is that I think that food plots
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: are a great entry way. They're a great entry drug,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: you could say, into the conservation wildlife habitat world, in
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: that they are usually the first thing that a deer
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: hunter tries when they're thinking about trying to improve habitat
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: because it's the sexiest thing, because it seems to be
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: the thing that is most you could be the most impactful.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: So it's a thing that everybody talks about and everyone
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: sees like, oh, wow, so and so has food plots
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: and they kill deer, and so I'm going to try it.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: And so my argument is that that is not a
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: bad thing. That is a good thing, and that people
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: see a food plot on TV and they say, oh,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I want to try that because it might make my
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: deer hunting better. I say all that because if that
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: person goes and buys a buck on the bag food plot, seed,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, and they plant a little food plot,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: I recognize that is not the end all be all
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: of improving wildlife habitat or helping your deer population, but
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really good way for people to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: dip their toes in the water. And then all of
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: a sudden realize like, oh wow, I this food plot thing,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: and I learned that I have to pay attention to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: soil quality. Hmm, what new rabbit hole might that they
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: take me down? Or Hm, I'm doing this food plot thing,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, I'm realizing like, I'm spraying
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: this roundup stuff. How does this kill everything? What does
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: this do? And maybe you read an article about it
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: and then you realize like, oh, yikes, there's this thing
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: called spray drift and it's killing all the milkweed around
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: here and that's why I don't see butterflies anymore. Or
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: maybe you do this food plot thing and you realize like,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: oh wow, when I cleared out this little patch of
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: forest to get the food plot in, not only are
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: the deer feeding on the little clover patch I planted,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: but actually there's a ten yard strip of just weeds
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: and stuff that are grown around it, and there's all
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: these flowers in and out, and now there's all these
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: bugs in there, and the deer feed on that too,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: So maybe there's something to this, like early secessional habitat,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: and maybe I should read more about this. And if
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: that person who at first was just interested in planning
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: a food plot to kill more deer, if you give
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: that person the opportunity to do that, not all, but
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: many people I think end up in their own little way,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: having conversations with themselves or their hunting buddies or their family,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: kind of like what we're having here today, in which
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: they realize there's more to it. And if you have
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: that opportunity to start realizing that there's more to it,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: then you have an opportunity for more people to start
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: thinking about managing their timber, for more people to start
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: thinking about early secessional habitat. There's more opportunity for people
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: to maybe think about, hey man, not only can I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: improve this place for deer, but I could also make
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: it better for the birds and the bugs and the
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: water quality. And none of that happens on my mind
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: unless that person. I'm not saying this is the only interway,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: but I think it is one common enterway into that world.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: So that is my argument to you, mister Doug Darren,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: for why food plots aren't so bad.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: What do you say, Well, what I'm not saying that
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: they're bad. What I'm saying is my response to that
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: is that you're saying that it's introduction to conservation, and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: it sounds to me like it's an introduction to farming
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: because that's what they're doing, right, I mean, or gardening.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's what you're doing. You're putting in a
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: little garden for the year. So that's something that's you know,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: it's very it's very specific. So rather than an introduction
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: of conservation, it's it's an introduction to farming. If you're
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: gonna introduce somebody to conservation, let's introduce the conservation. And
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: it's it's not if you're gonna put that energy in,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: Let's put that energy into simple habitat improvements, feather edging.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying you can't do food or that
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: it's a bad idea. I'm just saying that I think
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: that it's it's over focused on And the other part
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: of that is what kind of a food plot and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: if you are going out and you're tilling it up
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: every year in your spraining and you're doing the I
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: mean all of that, right, I mean, because you know
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: when you do you you watch a food plot video
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: or go to a food plot seminar. They're talking about
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: they're talking about spraying, they're talking about pH or the soil,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: they're talking about fertilizing, they're talking about farming. And I'm farming,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: you know, or at least it was that's what that is.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: That's farming. But at the same time, I work with
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: a do some work with a seed company feeing of
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: our sponsors, Hoxy Native Seeds, And before I started working
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: with those guys, I went on their website and you know,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: let's kind of see stuff that they have because Noxy
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: Native seeds. And then I saw food plots and I went, Okay,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm gonna have to take a look at
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: what they're recommending for food plots. And maybe they're in
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: the grassica business or corn and beans business too. And
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: I went on there and their food plots were one
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: native perennial and they were formulated for different species. I
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: was like, that's a food plot I can get behind.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: I have giant food plots out here, it's called CRP.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: I have prairie strips in there, and those prairie strips
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: are not providing corner beans. They can get and they're
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: not GMO corner beans either, which is what most food
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: plot corner beans are. Right, it's round up ready and
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: there's raying round up. I've had many discussions with guys
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: about food plots who you know, They're like, my food
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: plot's kind of dirty. I'm like, so what yah, you know,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: it's a lot. It's like I was thinking about going
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: redwock ready, so I thought maybe I go and sprayed again.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, that's what I mean. It's an introduction
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: into farming. And man Like, sometimes I feel like I'm
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: that guy at the AA meeting, Like I used to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: be way in the big giant bucks and I used
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: to be way into food plots. But I guess I'm
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: still into both of those things. But I just evolved,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: you know, over time, and I and and I just
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: I and maybe everybody's got to involve and maybe I'm
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: just like trying to, you know, push people along to
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: learn things faster than I did. That let's worry about
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: the habitat. Let's worry about if you want to do
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: something rather than keeping that in CRP or or in field,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: put it in uh CRP and have a nice mixture
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: in there. That's going to be providing food and habitat
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: to more than just white tailed deer and or wild turkeys. Yeah,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: as soon as we're getting Now, we had a bunch
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: of snow here, but now it's clearing off, and I'll
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: look on the side hill over here tonight where a
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: crp is, and there's a bunch of forbes in there.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: There deer out there scratching and stuff that's scratching it,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: just like they will in a in a cornfield or
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: a beanfield for the leftover grain. So it's this we're
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: we're we're accomplishing the same things without yearly inputs, you know,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: and all of that. And you've actually talked about the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: hell when are we doing the back fourty? You talked
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: about that. So you don't disagree with me about this stuff.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: I just I would I would rather see people or
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: I was maybe even rather is the wrong word. Maybe
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: I would just challenge him because I don't want to
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: run somebody down from putting in, you know, food plot
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: because I don't disagree with what you're saying. More I
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: do disagree with who might chill you. But I'm but
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: it's like my buddy Chip, you know, Chip, you met
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: Chip because what do you think I want to do
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: down here, you know, on this and he's had the
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: the Deer Management Assistant program. While I'll just come in
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: and talk with him and he's like, oh, I was
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: thinking about doing the food plot. Guy's kind of like
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: it's all one big food plot. You got here already,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, feel why don't you let's think about
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: seeding into it? Well, but structure, and they started talking
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: about this guy's Chip started talking about switchgrass and all
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: that stuff, you know, borders and protection and all of that,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: and like seems like plant some trees or some native
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: shrubs in that sort of thing would be a good
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: thing too. I think for almost every annual food plot
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: kind of thing, you're going to find something that's perennial
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: that's going to do as good as that's native, that's
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: going to do as good a job, or semi native
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: even you know, like an apple trees and stuff, and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: we're gonna going to provide what it is that you're
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: looking for, and you're not going to have those constant
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the trick. I think the trick to
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of this is really is realizing that for
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: people to for most folks, most of us, you and
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: I in many cases, right for us to for us
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: to put time, energy, money, whatever it is, into a thing,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: into a project, into a property, it still has to
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: satisfy like our our initial needs or wants out of it,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: like our selfish desires, which you have to look at that,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: like the simple base and incentives. And for a lot
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: of us, for a lot of folks, still it begins
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: with I want to kill deer. I want to kill
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: big deer, And it might stay that way for long,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: for a long while. I think the trick is finding
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: ways in which we can satisfy that based desire, like
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: that initial desire, while also expanding beyond that to satisfy
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: the rest, realizing that when we satisfy the rest, it
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: comes back around and helps with that initial desire too.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: There's some people who don't need that initial thing, who
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: just want to do the right thing for the ecosystem,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: and that's enough satisfaction. But it's not. No shame on
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: anyone else who also like, Hey, I'm spending this money
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: because I really like big deer, and the rest of
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: it's great too, and I want to help it, but
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: I still really want my big deal. That's okay too,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: And so I think the idea that I want to
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: keep hammering is like both are possible. But to your point,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: don't just get stuck in the original thing. It's a
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: much larger universe. Explore those other things. Is there are
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: better ways. There's always a better way, and if we
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: can continue moving down that path towards a better way,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: it will help with the original thing. That's like my
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: that's like my thesis coming out of this, and that
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: I think is where more attention, to your point, more
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: attention needs to be focused on that stuff, because there's
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of people talking about the obvious stuff, not
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: as many people are talking about that next step.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that's why I like to spend time
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: with ecologists, you know why. I'm a big supporter of
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: pheasants forever. I'll be at peasant Fest coming up the
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: first weekend in March, two falls. I'll be speaking actually
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: five times my pitches in here now. And the part
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: of what we're gonna be I'm gonna be talking about
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: is this right, I'm meant to be balling people off
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: doing food plots. But what's really interesting to me is
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: how even that you know that that Pheasants Forever is
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: that who started the Farm Build Biologists program, right, they
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: pay for a portion of those salaries and all of
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: that that happens, and we have farm build programs that
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: are focusing on doing the best thing for the land.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: Last year I spoke at a landowner and operator forum
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: and it was about essentially getting those people to talk.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that another presenter talked about
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: was red acres green acres, and so green acres are
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: is the best land, right is the land that's going
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: to be the most highly productive. Let's farm that. Let's
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: not farm those red acres. So you might see a
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: field and you know how you saw how the fields
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: are around here, right where they're kind of go in
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: and out of these hillsides and into these wood edges
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and you know you're losing the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: first twenty five feet to shade and to deer and
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: to you know whatever, you know, the wildlife. Well, rather
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: than that being another twenty five feet a corner bean,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: so let's put that into twenty five feet of CRP
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: or thirty feet of CRP. That's a perennial cover. That's
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: a better filter for runoff. That's a that's for carbon sequestering.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: We're not ripping that soil up every year. And really
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: interesting talking to a couple of guys who were doing that,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: and they were actually whether they're outfitters, and they were
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: leasing land from farm their farmer outfitters, so they were
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: commodity farmers and so they had their own farm, but
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: then they were also leasing land from other other farmers
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: and they were showing them what they were doing on
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: their property. They said, we will pay you whatever the
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: rate is for the whole thing, you know, for all
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: the x amount of acres that you guys are currently
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: being paid for. But what we'd like to do is
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: take the red acres and not put those inputs into
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: that area, put that into CRP, and if the CRP
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: had paid is less than what the base rental payment is,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: will make up the difference. So you get to see
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: our payment and we'll say if it's one hundred and
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: seventy five, and then we'll pay the other twenty five.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: If it's two hundred dollars an acre for everything else,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: and we'll put that in and we're not putting our
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: inputs into marginal land. Then we're we're putting you know,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: we're focusing on the best land, and then we're creating
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: that habitat and then as upland I think they're also
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: doing deer deer outfitting. They were creating better habitat for
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: not only the animals that they were that that was
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: a part of their operation, but for everything. I was like,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: and these guys were young bucks like you, and I'm like,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: holy moly, you guys are killing it. I mean, just
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: from a thought process, right and and you know, here
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: I'm sixty five, and what are you like twenty seven now?
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: Or I just wasn't that far along in any of
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: this as you are, and those guys were so so
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: I think that's great, you know, I think I think
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: that's kind of that's great. I also wasn't. I've always
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: been kind of a casual hunter. You know. Ninety nine
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: percent of the hunting that I've done in my life
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: it's right out here. You know. A couple of couple
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: of trips that you know, end up on television and
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: kind of looks like, WHOA, you can do that stuff
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: all the time. No, I did it once, you know,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: and it was a heck of a trip, you know,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: and so it's never. It's never. It was never my
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: primary focus to begin with. I mean, I like killing
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: big john bucks. You know there's a few on the
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: wall back there, putting that big fella right there.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and pretty good for a casual hunter done.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: But you know, it's so funny about that. I meant
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: to bring that up earlier that we'll just leave a
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: little bit. I meant to bring that up earlier where
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: we were talking, to go all the way back to
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 3: the beginning of what we talked about. That's exactly how
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: I what you and I did that day when and
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: you ended up killing that buck that's back over here
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: on the on the table.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: I should I getta turna turned the camera against so
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: they can see my beautiful deer back there.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: Dad, I'll just pull it up here, pray not to
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: break its nose off. Here's your here's your big giant buck.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: Oh man, look at that. I got to figure out
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: a way to get back up there and grab that
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: thing soon.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that hole in it everything.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's sitting right over there with Cols. You know,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: Cal killed a really nice one too. Yeah, But I
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: did the same thing with that buck. With with with
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: the standard, which this is smaller than I might add
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: if we were going to compare.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks thanks for then by several orders of men too.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: But I did the same thing with that. You know,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: there was an area back there that I had spent
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: this time in. I saw this deer. I figured him out.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: I went back to the tractor and was brush hooking
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: the edges like I always did, left the tractor running
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: and the thing is and I ran over and strapped
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: to a climber to this elm tree that wasn't really
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: big enough to hold me. And two weeks later I
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: crawled up in that thing. I had deer walked up
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: the same spot and that's where I killed it. Yeah,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: there was just the same Oh, and there was an
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: apple tree there too, and it was it was the
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: end of October, and in those days we could hunt
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: at the end of October with rifle. So I shot
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: him at thirty five yards with a rifle. Kind of
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: felt bad about it. I was like, man killed him
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: with a boat, But then I probably just wounded him.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: But it's that all of that is, you know, I
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: get excited about it. I'm real interested in it. But
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: the thing that I'm real.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: The thing that I like most about all of this
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: is how much fun it is, for how interesting it is,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: and how it's just a part of conservation. Like I said,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: we went back to that yard stick thing right up
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: the farm that if the farm's a yardstick used to
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: be three or four inches. Hunting was something we got
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: to do when we got the choice. N That's why
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: we were never bow hunters when it just I mean,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be sitting in a tree first part
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: of we're picking corn stuff. Have time for that. And
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: one of these days I may get back out there
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: with the boat. You've kind of inspired me.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going to keep pushing you.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well it'll be a crossbow. But yeah, uh so
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: I want to it's all a part of it. Yeah.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: So I want to assume let's assume that there is
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: at least one person listening to this, who's heard what
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: you have to say and what I have to say,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: and who thinks to themselves. Huh. You know, I've been
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: dabbling with the food plots. I've been dabbling with deer
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: habitat improvement and trying to get better hunting. Some of
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: these things that Mark and Doug have said makes some sense.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: There's probably value in expanding my horizons of what I'm
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: looking at here, and maybe I can start trying to
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: do some things that help the larger biotic community. As
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Leopold put it right. You know, I don't know where
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: I heard this first. I think it might have been
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: my friend Craig Doherty, but I heard this idea of
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Leopold landscapes and that being like a land of property,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: an area, a landscape managed in this kind of way
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about, with a little bit more of
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: a holistic focus, with an ion doing what's right for
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: the whole ecosystem, for the biotic community. So this idea,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: if someone's listening and thinks themselves, yeah, you know what,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: I want to try to shift my little back forward
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: into more of a Leopold landscape. What would be the
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: guidelines or what would be a handful of principles or
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: guidelines to think about as someone embarks on that project,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: either from your perspective, Doug, or what you think Leopold
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: would say if we wanted, if we wanted to look
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: back at the original og of this idea, what do
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: you think some of those things would be that that
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: we could think about.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: One of the first things I encourage any landowner to
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: do is to engage with their local conservation departments. And remember,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time in Wisconsin, but as
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: I've expanded, my people have contacted me from all over
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: the country about land management. One of the things that
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: the number one thing I say is take advantage of
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: as many resources that are available to you as possible.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: Of course I'll tell them to read, you know, Sam
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: County Almanac, or excuse me, some of these other writings
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: of Leopold, but engaging with a local land conservation department
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: like we had in Wisconsin. We have them on the
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: county level, most you know, and most of the folks
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: that we engage with whitetail deer hunters in the in
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: the Midwest and the East. Almost every state has a
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: Department of Natural Resources, and they'll have like a forestry department.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: Almost every state has a natural resource conservation service. And
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: there those are the farm that's where the farm build
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: biologists are. I think it's really important to engage with
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: those people. But and don't be intimidated by their job.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, in a lot of their this is reservices
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: to you. I mean it's your tax dollars at work.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: Is that they'll come out and they'll spend some time
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: with you learning about that. But I also think it's
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: important that you can meet try to meet people that
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: are are are like minded, you know, engage with with
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: the National Deer Association chapters, engage with Pheasants Forever chapters,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: woodland owner chapters. I mean, if you're a landowner, you
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: should be in Those are things that you should at
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: least have a cursory knowledge of. And then and then
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: you kind of go, yeah, I like the idea that.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 3: I don't like that. I don't like the idea of that.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: But some of the the I one of the things
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: that I tell people who contact me about land management
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: consulting or I ask them is to talk think about
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: what their goals and objectives are. You know, they might say,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: I'll want big giant bucks, and then my question usually
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: is and is there anything else? Or why did you
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: buy the property? The other thing is to get yourself
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: a I mean, Onyx is a wonderful tool, but get
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 3: yourself a laminated aerial photograph of your property and look
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: at it from the five thousand foot view right, and
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: then just you can laminate anything. You can take a
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: erasable marker and mark on there and and think about
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: the different things about that property. Just sort of take
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: take stock of what you have. You know, like this
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: is where the water is. And then there's apps that
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: you can put on your phone. The plan identifying absolutely necessarily. Yeah,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: seek is the one. Actually that I have an old
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: man head. I was forgetting there for a second. Uh,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: And that's fantastic that you're learning on your own a
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: lot of what these things are. You don't have to
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: be carrying a book around with you. You just tick
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: a picture and that has been one of the most
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: valuable tools for me. And then I have on X
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: on my phone and I'm constantly I'm walking around. If
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: I showed you my on X screen right now, I
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: mean there's layers in there. But of all the properties
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: that I'm involved with, I've got all kinds of different notes.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: Some of it's deer hunting notes, some of it's turkey
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: hunting notes, some of it's trails and all of this.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: But it's also cool stuff that I say, you take
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: a picture and you know, and that's what it is.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: So you're gathering information about your property and then you know,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: learn about your your watershed. You know, I'm in the
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: in the Little Baraboo River watershed here and our crek,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: our little trout stream here is unnamed, but it empties
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: into McGlenn Creek. You know, know how everything is connected.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: Get involved with a you know, if there's a neighborhood
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: organization like a you know, like an NDA chapter, that
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: might lead to a cooperative or something like that. Just
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: kind of figure out who what your neighbors are like,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: and who your neighbors are is there are there things
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: that we can do together. That kind of goes back
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: to some of that og farming stuff when I was
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: a kid, when it came time to bail and hey,
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: i'll tell you part of the reason I got to
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: hunt on other people's properties because when it came time
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: to bail and hay and they need people stack in
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: hand wagons areunloading them. Yeah, we got that call and
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: b Barry just knew you had to be there for it, right.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't in exchange for it, because they've come
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: and help you with yours too. But that was that community,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: that cooperation, that sort of thing, and I think that
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: that's a great opportunity for fun, but it's also that
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: great opportunity for cooperation, for becoming neighbors, and you know,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: sort of everything's connected, and that's those connections I think
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: are super important.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what would you say would be like, I don't know,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: maybe your top two off the cuff two for kind
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: of projects. So when I say at two for I'm
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: thinking of a project someone could do on the land
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: that is great for deer and deer hunting, but also
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: great for overall biodiversity or ecosystem health. Can you think
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: of a couple of your top projects that would be
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: good for both of those things that someone could be
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: listening today and say, okay, if that's something I got
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: to look into further that I could actually do put
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: on the ground this coming year. To two.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: Sure, creating edge and feather edging, Like in our case,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: there's in a lot around here and guys that I know,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: people that I know that owned property, you know, for
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: recreation or hunting is yet you see a lot of
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: these hard edges right where the trees go straight up
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: and here's the edge of the field, and that's what
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: it looks like and what we really want is more
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: of this. So feather edging is one of those things
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: there you need to learn how you know what's good
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: and what's bad, right, I mean good tree, good tree,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: bad tree, good shrub bad shrub. But those are the
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: kinds of things that you're immediately creating habitat along a
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: field edge, and especially if it's kind of a you know,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: it's not a productive field or I mean when I
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: say field, I mean openings. You know, that's one of
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: them specifically for deer. Were just in general.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: Two first, so one that would be good for something
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: that's good for deer and overall biodiversity or ecosystem health.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, so feather edging is one of them because
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: that provides so much. It provides both for deer and
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: it also provides for everything. H and uh and that's
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: really one. If you get the opportunity and you get
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: involved with conservation departments and nrcs, they get funding for
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: that too. So so uh so that's one of them.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say food plots, but I can't say.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: That you do your super diverse native seed food plot.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: That'sud of cool.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, and that's that's actually what I'm uh, what
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: I've got going on uh coming up this spring is
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 3: we're doing a pollinator habitat part of the Conservation Stewardship Program.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: I've been involved with so many different things that the
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: CSP program is for for folks who've been involved with
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 3: a bunch of different programs. So part of my agreement
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: this time around is I wanted to do these things anyway,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: but is to to do these the pollinator habitat and
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: and you can look at what seed mixes are are
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: part of that, uh, and the pollinators are interesting, but man,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of that stuff is grasses and forbs, and
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: so it's not only just for pollinators, but it's for
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, it's for a lot of the bird
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 3: the species. But then deer get in there and eat
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: that too, And it's great betting because there's gonna be
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 3: big grasses along with those forbes up to game birds
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 3: utilize that kind of stuff. So yeah, the perennial U
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: the perennial food plot and in this case calling it
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: really what we're doing, which is the pollinator habitat and
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: those are we're transitioning those too. That's I guess an
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: important point on ours is that we're there's a pollinator
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: habitat that's being connected to another pollinator habitat there with
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: we're feather edging all the way along the edge of
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: the road that goes up to it, so there's almost
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: like this you know, connectivity. One other thing that I
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: would mention that I did, it's coming up on ten
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: years ago now, was on a real steep slope back here.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: I didn't think i'd ever planned another pine tree because
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: of some things, but we planted pines on some real
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: steep slopes back here as a part of our and
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: as a part of a part of our plan. That
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: land that you know we've been farming, it was on
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: the side hill like this, and we planted trees and
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: that we planned planted pines exclusively, and it formed a
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: It formed a you know, a connection wildlife connecting area.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: And I thought, well, the deer were going to use
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: that a lot. But it's been amazing. I've had trail
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: camera back there. How other species are using that as well.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: And then of course there's thermal cover and all of
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: that as well. So I really want to see a
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: more hardwoods planet in our area. Seems like we have
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 3: plenty of planes. But then I'm you know, contradicting myself,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 3: and I planted for acres of four acres of of
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: of pines back here on these hillside strips, and they
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: worked out really well for a lot of different species.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: But dear love them.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: It's great. That's three three good ones, Doug. So if
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't have to, if I didn't have to go
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: and make sure my son got picked up from school
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: at a relatively punctual time, I would say we could
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: talk for another hour on this, But but we can't.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: So I guess I want to. I want to do
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: this again in more detail, because there's still I'm diving
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: deep into this world.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 3: Doug.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: You'd be you'd be happy to know that I'm going
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: further and further down the trail in your footsteps, trying
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: to find ways to to expand my habitat horizons and impact.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: But since we can't do it right now, if I
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: wanted to, or if anybody else wanted to go more
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: into these ideas, dive more into the stuff, could you
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: give us some recommendations. Is there any of your own content,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: of your own work that's out there right now that
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: you'd recommend we go see. I know there's some cool
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: short films that came out within the last year, So
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: maybe that's something you want to plug, and then plug
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: anything else of your own as well as if there's
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: any other books or content from anyone else that you
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: think would be worth us checking out to get deeper
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: into this idea of you know, creating land or creating
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: Leopold landscapes, this bigger picture kind of work.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: Sure, reach out to my friends at the Eldo Leopold Foundation.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: Go to their website, the Oldo Leo Foundation dot org.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: That's just a wealth of of Leopold stuff. I've been
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: writing and working with Uh Savage and we did Savage
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: Arms Company and Onyx and in both of those I
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 3: wrote some articles about you know, chronic wasting disease. In
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: this year now coming up, I'm gonna be doing more
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: work with Savage about about exactly this conversation right, the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: pilosophical stuff. But if you go on to my website,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 3: Doug Duram dot com. Oddly, you know, you can find
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: some of my content there. You go on Sharing the
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: Land and you can see some of the content there.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: We will be doing more about farm this year again,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: and Uh, there's some short stuff about about sharing the
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: land that I think is real, is really important, and
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: so sharing the Land dot com, Doug Dura dot com.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: You can just kind of dig around in there, and
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: I really encourage people to watch the video that's on
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: Savage's website. It's actually part of their Serve the Land series.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: It's twenty two minute video about Leopold and the Riley
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 3: Game Cooperative and you can pretty much figure out I'm
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: in it for like two seconds. But I was part
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 3: of the production of the whole thing and put it together,
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 3: and I wrote about Leopold there and how he's influenced me.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: But also that really introduces the idea and the thought process.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: How too is one thing. How to think about it,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: I think is really you know, basic level developing a
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: conservation philosophy. Think about that. What's my place in the world.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 3: So I know, I just threw all kinds of stuff
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 3: at you, but that's who I am.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: I guess all good stuff, Doug, And we wouldn't expect
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: anything less. And I appreciate you. I appreciate you talking
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: about this with me, and hope we get a chance
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: to do it again soon.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope so too. So say hello to Everett
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: and Coley and and uh yeah, I hope to see
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: you guys again soon, and you know, thanks for the
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: involvement everything with you that you have been involved with.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: It was fun meeting up on that on that triple
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: the land at the back forty stuff I think was
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: really important to Yeah, man, I'm a big admirer of yours.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And uh and thank you again for
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: uh for sharing the land. It was was a heck
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: of an experience down there with you. I had so
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: much fun and I can't wait to share that story
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: with the rest of the world. I think folks will
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: enjoy it and I will always look back on that fondly.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: So, uh, that's cool. And one last thing, Man knows
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: how to run a chance saw I was trusted, man,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: I was yeah, yeah, I was like, I was watching
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 3: I'm in the skid steer, y'all see it. I was like, yeah,
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: Mark knows what he's doing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: I was surprised by that, but I kind of was.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's an underhanded compliment or not, Doug,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: but I'm gonna take it, all right, let's talk against
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: So all right, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: that one appreciate you being here and let's just send
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: it on out here quickly. Until next time, Thank you
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: and stay wired.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: Tome mm HM