Latest / The Curve / Money, Politics & Morals: The Impact of Trump’s Tariffs & DEI Rollbacks.

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Money, Politics & Morals: The Impact of Trump’s Tariffs & DEI Rollbacks. · The Curve

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  Oh, we got snap.
• 2:02
  This is not a paid endorsement, but they can I are both drinking out of our little Nespresso.
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  What are they?
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  They feel like a little baby cup.
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  I love it.
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  They just ice coffee containers.
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  Yeah.
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  It's quite fun.
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  I think I've decided in terms of my liquid intake, I need to make it an activity, a fun
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  activity.
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  And sucking a straw seems to do that for me.
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  Do you find you get wrinkles though and you're good?
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  Do you know it's so funny that you say that because that is the one thing that I thought
• 2:31
  of.
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  I was like, I don't know if sucking is great for round the wrinkles.
• 2:37
  Damn.
• 2:38
  I just noticed the other day.
• 2:39
  I was like, oh, and I don't know if it's that self-fulfilling, you know, when you start
• 2:43
  seeing something, it's probably, it hasn't got any worse in the last couple of days,
• 2:46
  but I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
• 2:49
  I'm like, if I'm hydrating my skin and my body with more water, maybe it's like going
• 2:57
  to be fine.
• 2:58
  That's sort of where I'm going with it.
• 2:59
  Yeah.
• 3:00
  Oh, I've got a good care of weekday this week.
• 3:01
  I'm not sure if this is turning into the Trump weekly or this is the curve weekly.
• 3:07
  Like this is feeling as though Trump is going to be taking over our lives for the foreseeable.
• 3:13
  Yeah, it's almost like copy paste, copy paste every week.
• 3:17
  I'm in two minds about whether or not we should be giving any more attention to this
• 3:22
  man.
• 3:23
  Like, I know we need to know about this.
• 3:25
  I guess the thing is we're not promoting, he's not, he's already in power.
• 3:28
  There's nothing.
• 3:29
  We're not giving him any more power by talking about it.
• 3:31
  I mean, I'm happy to sit here and just talk about our weekends.
• 3:35
  But yes, you're right.
• 3:36
  It's been another rollercoaster ride in the stock markets last week globally, so not just
• 3:43
  US, this week viral, this week viral in terms of stock markets.
• 3:49
  What happened?
• 3:50
  So earlier in the week, Trump and we kind of knew this was coming, he alluded to it, but
• 3:57
  he decided to action and actually put tariffs on Canada and Mexico.
• 4:03
  So he put a 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico and an additional 10% on China.
• 4:09
  Now I was trying to think of the best way to describe a tariff.
• 4:12
  It's essentially a tax on imported goods.
• 4:15
  So any goods from Canada, Mexico, China coming into the US now, a charged and additional
• 4:21
  fee or additional tax.
• 4:23
  So a tariff is like, if you went into a club and they were, they had a door charge, you
• 4:29
  know, you were trying to enter this venue and they were like, so sorry, it's $20 to
• 4:35
  enter this club and you'd be like, screw that.
• 4:38
  I'm not entering.
• 4:39
  To be free last week when I came, is this a good analogy?
• 4:43
  It's a really good analogy.
• 4:45
  I'm loving where you're going with this.
• 4:47
  It's like, but imagine that you were a product.
• 4:50
  Imagine you were an avocado and you were trying to go from Mexico to America and now you
• 4:57
  have to pay an extra $20 to get into America.
• 5:02
  The price of yours just gone up.
• 5:04
  It just means an additional tax now for goods entering America from Canada, Mexico and
• 5:11
  China.
• 5:12
  Why have they been stung?
• 5:13
  Why are those three, the countries?
• 5:15
  It's because Trump is saying that it's due to the fentanyl crisis.
• 5:21
  They say that there is a lot of fentanyl coming from China and coming through Canada and
• 5:27
  effectively creating addicts out of people in America.
• 5:31
  And then with Mexico, it's about immigration.
• 5:34
  So that was early in the week.
• 5:36
  Could you just be trying to do anything you can to stay off Trump's radar, right?
• 5:40
  Like as a country, you're just like at the party, avoiding all I contact, like don't let
• 5:45
  him see us.
• 5:46
  Yeah.
• 5:47
  Yeah.
• 5:48
  Put a tariff on us, you know?
• 5:49
  Like everyone must just be feeling like, oh God, we just don't want to rough them up
• 5:53
  the wrong way.
• 5:54
  I was talking to someone the other day and they were like, they were saying how they were
• 5:56
  listening to an interview with Christopher Luxon, our prime minister.
• 6:01
  And the interviewer was asking him about Trump and everything and he just kept on
• 6:04
  voting answering the question.
• 6:05
  And he was, the reporter was like, you could so tell, he was like, he didn't want to be
• 6:09
  on Trump's radar at all.
• 6:11
  You know, you don't want to be like, yeah, we're buddies because then you kind of isolate
• 6:16
  a lot of people that would vote for you, but then you also don't want to press them
• 6:18
  off because then he'll be like, he'll go and buy you like he did to, he was trying to
• 6:23
  do with Greenland.
• 6:24
  He'll be like, oh New Zealand's making a bit of a noise down there.
• 6:27
  Let's just go buy New Zealand.
• 6:29
  Anyway, he is slapped tariff on these three countries.
• 6:33
  So why did stock markets fall around the world on this news?
• 6:38
  This is because it's going to impact company profits and share prices are just a reflection
• 6:43
  of company profits and company profitability.
• 6:46
  So this is why stock markets fell.
• 6:49
  It also creates a whole lot of like political uncertainty because then after that the
• 6:56
  retaliation was Canada, Mexico and China, all retaliators.
• 7:03
  Canada for example, is that we're pulling all US alcohol from our shelves in Canada.
• 7:07
  This is ridiculous, isn't it?
• 7:10
  Then China also opened, it did a whole bunch of other tariffs on certain goods back at
• 7:16
  the US, but it also opened an antitrust investigation with Google because Google is a big
• 7:21
  US company.
• 7:22
  So once this started happening, Trump was like, okay, okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 7:26
  So he's like, all delay the tariffs by a month.
• 7:30
  So then stock markets were like, cool, this is great news, there might be a solution, there
• 7:34
  might be some kind of agreement reached.
• 7:36
  So he almost reversed the tariffs for a month at least.
• 7:40
  So these poor businesses and countries trying to navigate, okay, will these tariffs be
• 7:45
  in play next week, next month at all?
• 7:49
  I don't know, it's just such a headache, it's so annoying.
• 7:53
  So a lot of these businesses that are operating in China, Mexico, Canada are trying to figure
• 8:02
  out if their profit margins are even probably sustainable with an increase like a tariff,
• 8:08
  right?
• 8:09
  Like there's a lot of people that will be affected by, okay, if we're having to then charge
• 8:13
  your customer 20% more, 10% more whatever it is.
• 8:17
  And for a lot of those businesses, you can't change that overnight, do you know what I mean?
• 8:21
  Like these tariffs come in overnight and all of a sudden your cost basis now, 25% more
• 8:26
  expensive, but you might not be able to quickly reflect that in prices that you charge customers.
• 8:32
  There's like a delayed effect as kind of what I'm saying.
• 8:34
  So yes, there will be profits that will be hit and that's what economists around the
• 8:39
  world are saying is that they'll be about a 2 to 3% hit to profits on the S&P 500.
• 8:45
  It's weird though because what it feels like because the tariffs are Canada, Mexico, China,
• 8:50
  it makes you think that it's those countries that are going to be financially impacted.
• 8:55
  It's interesting, I don't really get the connection between then why the S&P 500 companies
• 9:00
  are being affected.
• 9:01
  Can you explain that?
• 9:02
  With tariffs at the end of the day, like you said, we just end up paying it.
• 9:06
  So we just end up paying higher prices.
• 9:08
  So therefore there is companies within the S&P 500 who, like you said, who's profits will
• 9:15
  decrease because their cost basis increased.
• 9:17
  Like Apple does a lot of manufacturing in China.
• 9:21
  You've got a lot, a lot of companies that make products in China or sell products into
• 9:28
  into Canada because now Canada is retaliated.
• 9:31
  So it just means everything gets more expensive and when everything gets more expensive, that
• 9:36
  impacts profitability.
• 9:38
  And then there's all these flow on effects as well of things like that are harder to measure.
• 9:42
  So this could be things like having to relocate your manufacturing because now it's way to
• 9:48
  expensive to manufacture in Mexico, for example, if you're importing into America.
• 9:53
  So you might be like, okay, we're going to have to shift our manufacturing from Mexico
• 9:56
  to India.
• 9:57
  That's going to cost us.
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  That's going to impact our profitability.
• 9:59
  So there's all these flow on effects that we don't even know the impact of those years.
• 10:05
  One company that's a really good example of that is a company in the NZX50, which is
• 10:10
  the top 50 companies in New Zealand, Fisher and Pico health care.
• 10:14
  They have a massive manufacturing facility in Mexico.
• 10:19
  They manufacture sleep at near masks.
• 10:21
  So if you have trouble sleeping at night, that's what effectively one of their products
• 10:26
  helps with sleeping.
• 10:28
  They manufacture in Mexico and sell into the US and they represent 20% of our index in New
• 10:33
  Zealand.
• 10:34
  That's big.
• 10:35
  So to put that in perspective, Apple is 6% of the S&P 500 and Fisher and Pico health
• 10:41
  care is 20% of our index in New Zealand.
• 10:44
  Oh my God, that's like a fifth of the publicly listed company's profit comes from one business.
• 10:51
  And so that company was massively because of this announcement.
• 10:54
  They've just seen an increase, 25% increase overnight in the cost of making and importing
• 11:00
  their masks into the US.
• 11:02
  So that in turn impacted the index.
• 11:05
  The overall New Zealand stock market was down because of this one company as well as
• 11:09
  other ones.
• 11:10
  Oh my God.
• 11:11
  There's just like so many flow on a fix of this.
• 11:15
  Some we're feeling now in terms of the stock market movements, but a lot we probably
• 11:18
  won't feel for for many, many years as well.
• 11:21
  So even though he's paused it for a month, I think the reason and this is purely my view
• 11:27
  that he decided to pause it was he didn't think that those countries would retaliate.
• 11:31
  And the fact that they retaliated strongly, he was like, oh gosh, you know, because he's
• 11:34
  all about protecting America, let's figure out a way we can protect America or what else
• 11:39
  we have up our sleeve in terms of bargaining power.
• 11:42
  So that, you know, the US consumer doesn't get hurt, but what did Mexico do, did Mexico
• 11:47
  retaliate?
• 11:48
  So they haven't detailed yet.
• 11:49
  They said they would retaliate, but they haven't detailed how and what about China and
• 11:54
  China?
• 11:55
  Yep, they said they would retaliate and then they opened this antitrust investigation
• 11:58
  with Google so they were like, we're gonna.
• 12:01
  We're gonna show you, we can eff with your largest.
• 12:04
  But what is, what does the anti-Google, what is that even mean, opening up a wall, antitrust
• 12:09
  investigation, meaning it's had anti-competitive behaviour in terms of its operations, which
• 12:15
  we've kind of known about before with Google, you know, it's the like that thing that
• 12:19
  was like a Google amount of someone sued them by a Google or something or like a million
• 12:25
  trillion.
• 12:26
  But it's the same sort of thing.
• 12:28
  Kind of it's like, hey, you've been too dominant in our country, we're gonna sue you.
• 12:35
  There's just like this constant tit for tit and it makes doing business really, really
• 12:41
  difficult because there's uncertainty, there's regulatory hurdles, there's just can everyone
• 12:47
  just take a chill pill and honestly just relax a little bit and let everyone, if you've
• 12:54
  got a country that can, like Mexico, produce an abundance of avocados, let them export
• 13:01
  them to the US and let the US have them because the US can't produce avocados like Mexico
• 13:07
  can.
• 13:08
  Let's everyone just lean into their specialties so the world can have the most available
• 13:13
  resources at a lower price, I just think it just, it's not that hard.
• 13:18
  Mexico supplies 90% of Americans avocados.
• 13:23
  Look, I can speak on behalf of Mexican avocados, which are delicious and also like just get
• 13:30
  over yourself, Trump, like you can't do everything.
• 13:33
  The whole point of a global economy is that we're all trading with each other, not you're
• 13:38
  only trading within America, like it's just so, it's such an individualist mindset isn't
• 13:43
  it?
• 13:44
  It's like all I care about is America, the rest of the world can just jog on and it's
• 13:48
  like that's not really how we've operated for hundreds and hundreds of years, so like
• 13:53
  this is problematic.
• 13:54
  No, and it's like let's lean on our specialties and be like you know what, Germany, you're
• 13:59
  really great at manufacturing vehicles, let's get our cars from you, Mexico, you're really
• 14:04
  great at producing avocados, tequila and mezcal, tequila, let's lean on you for that fun
• 14:10
  stuff.
• 14:11
  You know, it's like you don't have to be good at everything, I don't know, it just really
• 14:13
  arouse me up, but what do you think we're going to see zooming out, like what do you think
• 14:18
  we're going to see from this stock market, consumers, like what are the flow on effects
• 14:23
  going to be?
• 14:24
  I think firstly we're going to see a lot more volatility, I think if one thing we've learned
• 14:27
  is that he doesn't mind just like shooting from the hip and then being like, oh actually,
• 14:33
  sorry, just jokes or okay, maybe that wasn't a good idea, but that's too late, the market
• 14:38
  is already reacted, so there'll be a lot more ups and downs in the stock market, but that's
• 14:44
  what comes with investing, you know, you do have to take these kind of this up and down,
• 14:50
  this uncertainty, these risks when you are investing, I also think the other thing to
• 14:56
  be aware of here is inflation, at the end of the day, if things are more expensive or
• 15:00
  going to be more expensive, that means inflation, and we have just spent years bringing inflation
• 15:07
  down to a more healthy level across the world, that there is fears that this could bring
• 15:15
  back inflation, and we could end up paying higher prices for things.
• 15:19
  Holy Gamoli, Shimoli, Fikoli, holy Gamoli, holy Gamoli, I mean, I think that the first
• 15:27
  point you made is actually a really interesting one about getting used to the idea that Trump
• 15:32
  is arguably insane, which is super irrational, like he makes decisions and then he can pull
• 15:40
  back on them, or he's like, I'm going to do this, and we know that the market investors
• 15:45
  are irrational too, and they can pull their money and put their money in places and react
• 15:50
  to things that are happening based on the news, that's coming out, and so I guess with
• 15:55
  that, it's just to be expected that there's going to be highs, there's going to be lows,
• 15:58
  and that's maybe just what it's going to be like for the next four years.
• 16:01
  It's not to say it's not going to go up to the right, but it might just be like, oh,
• 16:05
  we're up, we're down, which we kind of, I think if you're aware of what's happening
• 16:08
  in the news, it's okay, and you can ride it out, but it's just the understanding of the
• 16:14
  reason why things are going up and down so much, is super, super important for people
• 16:18
  to get the heads around.
• 16:19
  And you don't need to react to this kind of stuff, you know, you can read these headlines,
• 16:23
  you can be informed, but you don't have to go out there and sell things or buy things.
• 16:29
  You're cool, Carmen Collector.
• 16:30
  Yeah, exactly.
• 16:31
  We smile and wave.
• 16:33
  We smile and wave, we say, hello, Trump, hello, your stupid ideas, we say, oh my God, look
• 16:39
  at the stock market, it's absolutely having it back, we don't jump into the chaos, that's
• 16:43
  the idea, right?
• 16:44
  Exactly.
• 16:45
  We just go, thank you, Trump, and we wish a speedy four years ahead of us, and we hope
• 16:53
  that this volatility and this volatile person will move on to, you know, greater pastures.
• 17:03
  Is that a saying?
• 17:04
  I feel like that's a saying, and must be to do with agriculture, right?
• 17:07
  Like moving on to a better field or something.
• 17:08
  Yeah, moving on to better, greater pastures, yeah, exact pasture, pasture.
• 17:13
  Now I'm angry, I won't launch, anyway, another thing that Trump has implemented, or had
• 17:20
  an effect on or influence on, is this whole move away, and we kind of spoke about this
• 17:24
  last week, a whole move away from diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• 17:29
  I thought, while we're talking about Trump, let's talk about this too, but Google has
• 17:35
  now said that it's no longer formally seeking to improve the diversity of its workforce.
• 17:43
  So it is stepping back from its diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives.
• 17:48
  Oh my god, this is actually a tragedy because they're some of the front runners for the work.
• 17:54
  They do, I mean, we went to a diversity equity inclusion talk at Google in London, and it was amazing.
• 18:00
  Yeah, so it's told employees that it's no longer going to have these goals tied to representation.
• 18:07
  So whether it be, you know, to improve underrepresented groups by 30% to have 40% of women
• 18:14
  on boards, you know, like all that stuff, a lot of these companies, and I'm talking
• 18:18
  of big, big companies now, like Google has just joined the ranks of, and I'm saying join
• 18:23
  the ranks, it sounds like a positive thing, but Meta, Amazon, McDonald's, Walmart, all these
• 18:30
  massive, massive, massive employers have come out and said that they're doing the same thing,
• 18:35
  which is not okay.
• 18:37
  The one glimmering light of hope is Apple.
• 18:42
  Apple has come out and stood up to this and is pushing back against this.
• 18:48
  Oh my god, it makes me feel like emotional.
• 18:51
  And it also makes me want to put money into Apple just hearing that.
• 18:55
  And that's great.
• 18:55
  And that's exactly what this should be doing.
• 18:59
  The fact that Trump came out and said there is only two genders, there is male and female,
• 19:03
  plays into all of this.
• 19:04
  This is now, you know, having a very, very unsafe or a very at-risk community, group of
• 19:11
  people in America, the LGBTQ plus community.
• 19:16
  Now this as well is not, you're not representing underrepresented groups or minorities at a company
• 19:23
  level or an employment level problem, because we've come so far and it just feels like
• 19:30
  why does it even need to be a policy or be a topic of discussion anymore?
• 19:37
  Do you know what?
• 19:38
  I think that there's, I could be totally wrong with this and I'm sure there'll be a lot
• 19:42
  of people that are going to send me hate mail because of this comment.
• 19:44
  But I feel like Trump says what a lot of people, and when I say people, I mean older generations,
• 19:55
  think anyone who is reasonably well-educated and probably under a certain age is very aware
• 20:03
  of the importance and like just, like it's just a no-brainer, that there is so much fluency
• 20:10
  in gender and the importance of diversity, I think that we've spoken about this before,
• 20:15
  but I have this feeling like what Trump's doing, the way he's approaching, he's almost
• 20:21
  like, he's-
• 20:22
  He's a boy.
• 20:23
  He's a boy.
• 20:24
  No, but yeah, he is, but he's also like, I think there's a lot of people that think like
• 20:29
  Trump do, but they're too afraid to come out and say it, and all of a sudden there's
• 20:34
  this obnoxious orange man that's saying, this is what I think, everyone's like, I think
• 20:41
  got someone else's fronted this, so now I'll jump back on that bandwagon, and I hate
• 20:45
  to say that, and I know that there's a lot of well-educated, open-minded older people,
• 20:50
  but there's still a huge part of our population, so, and a lot of those people are the ones
• 20:54
  that are running the companies, so yeah, I don't know, he's praying on people that have
• 21:03
  lost their jobs due to immigration, so therefore, you know, he says things like, I'm going
• 21:10
  to target Mexico because of their immigrants, and people that have- may have lost their
• 21:15
  jobs due to immigration, I like, yes, thank goodness, you know, he's pulling this
• 21:22
  emotive small group of people, actually, big because he got into power, for people that
• 21:29
  are scared, and he pays into those emotions, you know, people are scared about change,
• 21:33
  people are scared that there's, you know, what is the world going to look like with such
• 21:37
  fluid genders, and they're scared about that, so then he pays into that fear, and creates
• 21:42
  a sense of a kind of a safe mindset or a safe community, whereas you don't have to
• 21:47
  fear it.
• 21:48
  We've seen how much positivity and financial gain companies can get by having diverse
• 21:58
  members on their boards, and having diverse employees, and management teams, and all of
• 22:03
  that, but I honestly just feel like sometimes my head of my head gets a brick wall with
• 22:06
  this stuff.
• 22:07
  Before you're, some of your research on this, like that between 2021 and 2024, Google's
• 22:14
  investor reports said that they're committing to diversity equity inclusion as part of
• 22:18
  everything that they do.
• 22:21
  Have they come out with a statement saying, this is our new plan, like what's the new
• 22:27
  public?
• 22:28
  No, they come out and said that it's reviewing its programs, and it will no longer have
• 22:32
  goals tied to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• 22:36
  Then it released that report, so it set a five-year goal to increase the number of its
• 22:41
  leaders who came from underrepresented groups by 30%, and it doubled the proportion of
• 22:48
  Black people amongst its leadership between 2020 and last year, and representation of
• 22:55
  women increased as well, so it was making significant moves and traction in those directions
• 23:03
  to achieve those goals, but now it's like, we're not going to have any goals anymore.
• 23:07
  And what is Apple said publicly in regards to being against this?
• 23:12
  There's this group that is going round public listed companies, almost like a sheholder
• 23:17
  activist group, that is going round saying, if you are having diversity, equity, and inclusion
• 23:24
  policies in your business, you're exposing the company to litigation, reputational,
• 23:29
  and financial risks.
• 23:30
  One of the arguments is that you're not choosing the best people for the job, you're choosing
• 23:35
  people based on their diversity, and therefore you're putting the company at risk.
• 23:40
  So that's their side of their argument, so Apple has come out and said it's asked investors
• 23:48
  to vote against this movement, essentially, so they've asked them to vote against ending
• 23:55
  its diversity policies, so it's kind of a double negative, but yeah.
• 23:59
  But it's saying that we're not going to vote for removing our policies, we need all
• 24:04
  shareholders to band together and vote against this, so that we can continue on our goals
• 24:09
  of DEI, but yes, this should, this exact discussion should invoke you being like, okay, I'm
• 24:17
  actually going to invest more in Apple because I like what they do, and I'm actually not
• 24:20
  going to invest in Google or vice versa, or yeah, this is exactly the kind of values based
• 24:25
  in investing that we speak about.
• 24:28
  It's not just environmental issues, there's social issues, which is exactly this.
• 24:35
  And within that, those underrepresented groups and diversity, equity, inclusion, one
• 24:40
  of the biggest ones is women, we've been pushing a hedge to have certain thresholds of
• 24:44
  a level of women on board, of women in senior management roles, we've been fighting for
• 24:49
  this for so long, let alone all the other minority groups that are much more minor than
• 24:55
  the overarching group of women, like there's so many other minority groups in that, within
• 24:59
  that it just exhausts me.
• 25:03
  It's so disappointing, the best thing you can do, and this is a great example is vote with
• 25:09
  your wallet, invest in companies that align with your values, invest in the likes of Apple
• 25:15
  if this is exactly what has Microsoft come out and see anything about this?
• 25:20
  Not yet, not that I noticed, I mean silence isn't great either to be honest, it trumps
• 25:25
  in all creation your Jeff Bezos from Amazon, you had Mark Zuckerberg there from Meta, Bill
• 25:30
  Gates wasn't there, the CEO of Microsoft wasn't there, so it seems like there is a bit
• 25:35
  of a divide forming between these large tech companies and kind of who they're.
• 25:41
  Wait, so who are the ones that weren't there?
• 25:43
  Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Nvidia, so none of those ones were there, standing next to him.
• 25:51
  I'm just saying that the three most prominent people standing next to Trump in his
• 25:55
  inauguration were Mark Zuckerberg from Meta, Jeff Bezos from Amazon, and Elon Musk from Tesla,
• 26:02
  and we've seen Meta and Amazon and most likely Tesla come out and say that they're not supporting
• 26:07
  this, so.
• 26:08
  But then you get Google saying that they're doing this and they weren't there.
• 26:13
  Yeah, but you don't need to stand next to be a supporter, do you know what I mean?
• 26:16
  But that's what I mean, it feels like everyone, every big massive tech company is a supporter,
• 26:21
  that's how it feels.
• 26:22
  Was it saying keep your friends close to your M&E's closer?
• 26:26
  M&E's?
• 26:27
  You need to have some lunch, mate.
• 26:28
  You just cannot.
• 26:29
  Oh, I can never say M&E's, M&E's, M&E's, M&E's.
• 26:34
  I think my overarching feeling is like just deflation and general towards investing,
• 26:38
  because if to make money and investing, I need to invest in these massive tech companies
• 26:44
  that are growing or like the AI space for blah, blah, blah.
• 26:47
  And they're the ones that are slashing women and minority groups and like,
• 26:51
  absolutely fang up the planet.
• 26:52
  It makes me think like, well, awesome.
• 26:55
  So my only option here, if I'm wanting to make money through investing,
• 26:59
  is by supporting people that are totally misaligned with my values,
• 27:02
  because the SME 500 has all of those companies in it.
• 27:06
  Like it just feels really deflating.
• 27:08
  There is companies though that are doing very, very well that have alignment with your values.
• 27:13
  Google, they do do a lot of charity.
• 27:15
  It can be some a lot of charities like all of this,
• 27:18
  that you've kind of have to take the good with the bad sometimes.
• 27:21
  I don't know. I disagree.
• 27:23
  I'm not going to like go and be friends with someone that's like going and bashing down,
• 27:28
  random people on the side of the street, but then you know,
• 27:31
  donate 10% of their pay to the animal shelter.
• 27:34
  Like I'm like, you're not a good person.
• 27:35
  I don't want to be friends with you just because there's a little bit of good there.
• 27:38
  Sorry, I feel really passionate and annoyed about this.
• 27:41
  No, what if you doubled your money in Google and then you could go and spend that money
• 27:45
  and put that to good use?
• 27:46
  That's a different angle, honestly.
• 27:48
  I feel like I need that because otherwise, I just feel like I've lost faith in investing in general.
• 27:53
  But I know what you mean.
• 27:54
  It's like the money is almost tarnished.
• 27:57
  It's not easy.
• 27:58
  I don't know.
• 27:59
  I feel proud when a company's done well and I've invested in it.
• 28:02
  And I mean, look, I understand the idea that there's no business that's going to be perfect.
• 28:07
  There's not going to be a full suite of staff that are all amazing people.
• 28:10
  Like I understand that.
• 28:12
  I think I just feel like when I feel so strongly about the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion,
• 28:18
  yet I know by investing in Google I'm going to make returns.
• 28:22
  It's just really conflicting.
• 28:23
  It's a really hard, like moral dilemma to find yourself in when on one hand,
• 28:28
  of course, I want to be making more money so that I can do things that I want to do.
• 28:32
  But that's so selfish.
• 28:33
  Well, it feels that way.
• 28:35
  Yes, yeah.
• 28:36
  But you know what, these like big audacious
• 28:40
  announcements from Google saying we're no longer supporting DEI to Apple saying we are,
• 28:46
  that will move money.
• 28:48
  There will be people like you or there will be there will be funds.
• 28:52
  So think of like Kiwi Sava funds or pension funds that they'll be they'll be moving money.
• 28:57
  There'll be there'll be millions and billions of dollars over time that will they'll be moving from
• 29:03
  these companies.
• 29:04
  So they have to be very careful with these kind of statements because yes, you're you're
• 29:10
  feeling like this, but there's people with a lot of money or that manage a lot of money that
• 29:16
  also feel the same way.
• 29:17
  So I hope you do have to be do have to be a bit careful.
• 29:22
  And you know what, it could mean that Apple does actually outperform Google.
• 29:26
  I actually really hope so.
• 29:27
  And they prove there is actual financial benefit of having diversity, equity and inclusion
• 29:34
  policies in place and goals.
• 29:36
  I feel real deflated and I feel like this.
• 29:38
  Sorry.
• 29:39
  I know you don't need to apologize.
• 29:40
  This is the news.
• 29:41
  Should I finish with a joke?
• 29:43
  Yes, but I was also just going to say if anyone's listening to this and has thoughts, ideas,
• 29:49
  feelings like this is obviously what the investing club is for like to talk about this kind of
• 29:53
  thing because I think everyone wants to be making money through investing, but like how do we
• 29:59
  navigate the space when there's so much that maybe feels a bit uncomfortable right now.
• 30:05
  So I would say I've actually got a few people lined up at Google as well.
• 30:09
  I don't want to talk to.
• 30:11
  Oh, I love that.
• 30:12
  Okay, cool.
• 30:14
  Because that's actually something I did think about that because like all the amazing people
• 30:17
  that work at Google because there's so many incredible people that work there.
• 30:21
  I wonder how they feel about that kind of thing.
• 30:23
  You know, it's like it's just yeah, it's like where do you draw the line between?
• 30:27
  Yeah, I don't know.
• 30:28
  God, it's exhausting.
• 30:29
  Sometimes, isn't it?
• 30:32
  Can you finish with your joke?
• 30:33
  Yeah, you forgot your joke, didn't you?
• 30:36
  No.
• 30:36
  How do you make a hanky dance?
• 30:39
  You put a boogie in it.
• 30:42
  That sucks that you know that.
• 30:44
  You're going to have to do better than that to get a laugh.
• 30:45
  I don't even find out.
• 30:47
  I know.
• 30:49
  You're very deflated.
• 30:50
  Okay, well look, I think at the end of the day, this is like what's happening in the world.
• 30:53
  We can't ignore it.
• 30:54
  We can't be knowing about it and being educated is like the first step to
• 30:58
  being able to do something to change it, right?
• 31:00
  So I think the positive here is that knowledge is power, exactly.
• 31:04
  So as much as I've been like wiring on and being,
• 31:08
  you know, there's things that we can do and I think that we just need to be brainstorming that.
• 31:12
  Yeah, and it's like knowing these, knowing what's going on in the world.
• 31:15
  So you can feel like you can or you don't have to, but like there's the option to do something
• 31:21
  if you want to.
• 31:21
  The worst is not even knowing this and thinking you're investing in a really, really great company
• 31:26
  that is aligned with your values, but you're not.
• 31:29
  So at least now you have the information.
• 31:31
  Do with what you please.
• 31:34
  Let's just make a pact next week we won't talk about Trump.
• 31:37
  Yeah, can we do that?
• 31:38
  I think I need a break.
• 31:39
  Do you know what we'll do actually?
• 31:41
  We'll talk about it.
• 31:41
  He gets five minutes at the start of the podcast and then we move on.
• 31:46
  Yeah, we do top line.
• 31:47
  Yeah, okay.
• 31:48
  Just to keep everyone up to date, because I actually do think like just based on what
• 31:51
  we said, I'm glad you spoke about it and I'm glad that I now know it just has ruined my day.
• 31:57
  Apologies.
• 31:59
  God save some miscal.
• 32:00
  I'll go have some avocados before they go from price.
• 32:02
  Oh my god, that's so sad.
• 32:05
  Oh my god.
• 32:06
  Maybe like an avocados shortage, just if you're in like quartz avocados.
• 32:09
  Maybe I'll start an avocado farm.
• 32:10
  They're talking about five years to grow an avocada tree I was told.
• 32:13
  Oh my god.
• 32:15
  Don't have that kind of patience.
• 32:16
  God, it would be good imagine having avocado guacamole, breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
• 32:21
  Oh, your schedule would be so great.
• 32:22
  Nature's behind what I call it.
• 32:24
  I think it looks healthy.
• 32:25
  You choose butters what I call it.
• 32:27
  How old are you?
• 32:28
  Okay.
• 32:28
  Hey, I'll chat to you soon.
• 32:30
  Thank you for all the research you did for this.
• 32:32
  And for anyone that wants to find out more about the Investing Club,
• 32:35
  maybe find a bit of solace in what's going on in terms of like speaking to other people
• 32:39
  and feeling like there's community and conversation.
• 32:41
  We'll put a link for the Investing Club in the podcast show notes and
• 32:45
  you get a seven day trial.
• 32:47
  So even if you want to pop on, have a look at the conversations that are being had around
• 32:50
  this, then you can have a look.
• 32:52
  So what do you think?
• 32:54
  And any thoughts or questions or whatever, like Instagram email,
• 32:57
  like we would love to hear from you.
• 33:00
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• 33:02
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• 33:04
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• 33:09
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• 33:12
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• 33:13
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• 33:18
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• 33:23
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• 33:26
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• 33:26
  Bye.
• 33:28
  Sweet.
• 33:29
  Yeah.
• 33:29
  See you next Tuesday.
• 33:30
  Well.
• 33:33
  See you next Tuesday.
• 33:34
  I mean, Monday.
• 33:35
  No, actually though, new episodes out every Tuesday.
• 33:38
  Okay.
• 33:41
  Okay, quickly, The Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing,
• 33:45
  but we are not financial advisors.
• 33:47
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• 33:51
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• 33:54
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• 33:57
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• 34:01
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• 34:05
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• 34:07
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• 34:07
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