Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Peter Ould & Paul Dunn about their choice of State of Decay (1/4)

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Talks to Peter Ould & Paul Dunn about their choice of State of Decay (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
0:37
Welcome back to a Hamster with a blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
0:41
commentary podcast. Oh ring the bells, sound the
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drums. After two aborted attempts to
0:51
get this recording done, I have assembled a new team of now it's
0:56
so one sort of, I'm going to say victory.
0:58
And although he's done one before.
0:59
Mr. Paul Dunn. Hello.
1:01
Good evening, Joe. Paul, we've got a virgin on our
1:05
hands today. OK, so have you brought your
1:08
gloves along with you? Yeah, we'll be gentle.
1:13
And of course, and may I say as well, Peter, thank you for all
1:18
of the support you have given to Hamster.
1:19
A blunt pen knife. You've been there with my
1:22
patrons since the very beginning, Mr. Pete.
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Now do I say old or out? So it's it's pronounced old as
1:29
in ancient and decreed. Oh, OK, Mr. Peter Old.
1:34
How are you? Peter, I'm.
1:36
OK, thank you. I'm I'm very much looking
1:38
forward to my first hamster. We're finally here.
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Yeah, that's right. Now you've had, like I said, 2
1:45
aborted attempts now to gather up trivia notes and riveting
1:50
observations. Are you ready for this?
1:53
Oh, you're going to be so disappointed.
1:57
Yeah, it's good, isn't it? Yeah.
2:01
Well, Paul, would you do me the great honours, please of asking
2:04
Peter the opening question? I said we was going to ask him.
2:07
Absolutely no problem at all, Peter, as is your first hamster.
2:11
What we'd really love to know is your journey into Doctor Who.
2:16
Well, one of my first actual memories is Doctor Who and it
2:21
is, it's a bit mixed up because I have this memory of us moving
2:27
from Manchester to Sheffield when I was about 5 1/2 years old
2:31
on a Saturday and my parents dumping us in front of the TV,
2:35
right? Because it's basically going, I
2:37
was five years old, my twin brother was five years old, my
2:39
older brother was 8 years old. So what the hell are we going to
2:41
do? Get them into the furthest room
2:42
away from everything, stick ATV in in there and get them out of
2:46
the way while we unpack and I. So I was sensible pacer I.
2:51
Very clever parents, yeah. And I have this, I have this
2:54
this memory of sitting down and seeing the first episode of
3:00
Destiny of Daleks and, and vividly in my mind the
3:05
cliffhanger at the end of Destiny of Darts episode 1 where
3:09
the spoilers clear guy where where Lala Ward drops down the
3:14
not very convincing rough shaft. Three times, all right.
3:20
And then the, you know, the wall shaking the Daleks burst through
3:24
and that was my first ever Dalek, right.
3:27
So pretty much almost the same as children 20 years almost
3:31
previously when they had their first ever dogs.
3:33
I was hooked. Now memory cheats because
3:39
actually when I was chatting to my late mother over Christmas
3:45
about this memory, we got out of the dates when we moved and I
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think we moved the Wednesday after episode 1.
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So my mind is creating this memory of this.
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So it could be that they just shoved us in in the room while
3:58
they packed, right? And we actually moved between
4:01
episode 1 and episode 2 from Manchester.
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But that is my first I remember. And I was hooked, absolutely
4:10
hooked. And then we discovered a family
4:15
halfway down the road, so 10 houses down.
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And I remember, I remember Simon who was like a year older than
4:23
me. And I remember Simon because he
4:25
had Doctor Who weekly. Oh, oh, yeah.
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So, so. So as I I watched season 17,
4:34
kind of, you know, and really, really enjoyed it.
4:38
Horns of Nyman, I just remember being amazing.
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Your child self was absolutely right.
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Absolutely. And then, and then I discovered
4:48
through Simon, Doctor Who Weekly and I started sort of, we, we,
4:52
we got a, a reservation. These were in the days when,
4:57
when you had newspapers delivered every morning, right?
5:00
And so we, we got Doctor Who magazine because it's turned
5:04
into Doctor Who Monthly, haven't it?
5:05
And, and I got that delivered and I still have most of them
5:09
down here and I and I have a complete because I, you know,
5:13
because we're all a little bit autistic, aren't we?
5:15
The most Doctor Who fans. And mine was collecting stuff,
5:19
right? So I've so, so I've just got
5:22
into it via that as well and started reading and learning.
5:26
I discovered target books and things like that.
5:29
And so I was hooked right up until Sylvester McCoy, when I
5:32
decided this, you know, this wasn't actually that.
5:34
Cool. Oh dear.
5:37
That's it. The entire audience has just
5:39
vanished. I all love Sylvester McCoy
5:40
around here. Now in retrospect, now as an
5:43
adult who's you know, into thinking about things and, and,
5:47
and has read all about the Andrew Cartmel master plan and
5:50
all that kind of stuff. Now I love it even.
5:52
I'll even watch Time and the Ronnie.
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Joke even. What do you mean even?
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But yeah, I did that. I sort of went through a year or
6:01
two where I didn't I. Can you hear this man Pole?
6:04
Oh no, it's absolutely sacrilegious, isn't it?
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So that's my Doctor Who history and then I sort of in my 20s, I
6:11
kind of did, you know, and I was that 20 by the time I'm in my
6:15
20s, what were 1993, I'm going off to university and so on.
6:19
We're in the wilderness years. We have the disappointment of
6:22
the TV movie and so on. I kind of picked it up again and
6:25
as I turned sort of 30 or so and then that was with knew Who.
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And suddenly I think from from being all my friends, sort of,
6:33
you know, I had friends who had sort of kids and so on.
6:35
And they discovered I was a Doctor Who fan.
6:37
And suddenly I became the incredibly cool friend of your
6:40
parents to have round and sit in the room to watch Doctor Who.
6:44
It wasn't a long window that I remember being the cool person
6:47
amongst my friends kids, but it only lasted from sort of season
6:51
series 1 to about series 6 and then I was no longer the cool
6:54
person anymore. I mean, I've got one very big
6:58
question to ask you. This Doctor Who weekly was sort
7:00
of your first bit of merch. Yeah, right.
7:03
It's the first time that money was actually being spent.
7:05
How much do you imagine that you've spent on Doctor Who from
7:08
then until today? And don't hang your head and
7:11
shake, please. Up until my early to mid 40s,
7:17
not a lot. And then I began doing a very
7:23
successful job and had lots of disposable income and at the
7:30
same time with sort of owning vitism and stuff like like that
7:35
so I could sort of control it. And I decided, you know what,
7:37
I'm going to make collecting old who stuff as in books and stuff
7:44
like that from the time I'm going to make that my thing.
7:48
So I now have I have a complete collection of every single
7:52
target 1st edition paperback because I'm not stupid enough to
7:56
buy the hardback. I mean, that's just stupid
7:58
money, but you can pick. So I've got every single and
8:00
I've just this weekend completed all the all the like the like
8:05
extras like Turlo and the EarthLink.
8:07
Die. Yeah, Yeah.
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Yeah, that marvelous piece of literary prose and.
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Stuff Harry Sullivan's war, that sort of.
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Sullivan's war was completed. This, this, this this weekend as
8:18
well. But even stuff like I've got all
8:20
the game books from the 80s, so I've got the six sort of and
8:25
adventure, but also the two faster game books which are
8:29
actually really good. And just other stuff I've got
8:33
all the Peter Hayley books are down there and so on.
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And my next thing will be, I've got a few of the annuals I've
8:40
got. But my, my, my next thing I
8:42
think will be to, to collect all the old annuals.
8:45
I've got all the Doctor Who monthly yearbooks, all of those.
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Oh, Peter, you're gonna have to tell me which ones you need.
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I've got a shop down the road. He's got load of the old 70s and
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80s annuals in there. All of them.
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All of them. Well, you need them, right?
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OK, I'll be able to send something.
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Don't you worry. Yeah, well, you know what it's
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like, Paul, the collector's bug. Yes, it's it's terrible, really.
9:07
I could see a Tom Baker staff hanging there from your wardrobe
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behind you. Yeah, yeah, that's some more
9:12
bookcase, Yeah. So I basically love old who.
9:16
I mean, I, I, I, I enjoy bits from new who.
9:21
That's another conversation, but sort of old who I, I, I really
9:24
do enjoy. It's, it's a nostalgia for me.
9:27
I've in, in, in the last decade or so, as I've sort of flirted
9:31
on the fingers of fandom, proper fandom and so on, I've
9:34
discovered a lot of, you know, people sort of retrospectives of
9:38
it. So I've understood it a lot more
9:39
in terms of, you know, the, the dynamics of what was going on.
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But just thinking about directors and music and stuff
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like that. And I just, I just enjoy it as
9:48
something to know about and and appreciate.
9:52
Well then, you seem like the perfect person to bring on to
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talk about the Seminole Season 18 classic State of Decay.
10:00
Although as a quick side note, Chaps and Paul, I said I wasn't
10:03
going to do this on the call, but here we are.
10:06
Do you have any of those shoes? Your own adventure books.
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I do. Oh my God, coming to Hamster
10:15
book club soon. Peter, Paul and Joe do the Pip
10:19
and Jane Baker choose your own adventure books.
10:23
Imagine doing that. Oh my God, as an episode where
10:25
you literally just read out the journey you come on, that would
10:29
be so funny. Oh, they're absolutely ghastly.
10:32
They're full of puzzles and all sorts.
10:34
Oh, we'll have fun. Anyway, sorry, background to
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State of Decay. Now.
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Now, who chose this one? I thought never remember.
10:40
I think it was a bit of a joint. I think I I said on Twitter or X
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or whatever you want like to call it, how much I love stated
10:46
decay and Peter agreed and you said let's do it chap.
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So here we are. That's.
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How it works, Yeah. Can I, as a sort of startup,
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attend to start talking about season 18?
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We'll go into the episode in a minute.
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We've got plenty to talk about in there.
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But is this your favorite from season 18, Paul?
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I think, I mean, I actually really like season 18 anyway.
11:09
I think it's an absolutely superb season and that's not
11:13
taking anything away from 17. So I like that in a different
11:16
way. But I just really enjoy the
11:18
shift and the focus of this season.
11:21
So I mean, I don't think there's really a duffer in there.
11:24
I suppose Meg loss is a bit iffy, but other than that, it's
11:28
probably my favorite season. It made me a fancy.
11:32
Has got an enormous cactus that talks in it.
11:35
How could you say that's the worst of the season?
11:38
Well, it is a bit of a prick, isn't it?
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Peter, please stop, which I say will you immediately.
11:44
Is this your favorite, Peter? It's one of my favorites.
11:47
I'm I don't think I have a particular favorite.
11:51
I like season 18 as a coherent whole.
11:55
I think that's the H bid meet is doing something incredibly
12:00
clever with this season. We might talk a bit about there
12:03
are there's the whole entropy thing going through.
12:07
And this is like the middle story, which is has entropy as a
12:14
as a massive theme. And and you, you, you can see 10
12:20
sticks, his original story, and you can see the bits of crisper
12:22
bid meters added. Oh boy.
12:24
Yeah, we will talk about that. I love how that goes through the
12:29
whole season. And then there's the mini themes
12:33
around Gallifrey in this, right? Because there's actually a lot
12:37
of Gallifrey in this season and Gallifrey law, even though we
12:42
never set foot there, right? And so there's it's, it's, it's
12:46
all that kind of stuff. It is AI wish he stayed on and
12:51
done more of this kind of stuff because I this this is I think
12:54
in terms of script editing to make a coherent season, this is
12:59
amazing. I I've, I've sort of got on this
13:03
weird journey with bid Mead in that I used to love this season
13:07
because it as as a nipper, it felt very stylish.
13:09
Yeah. Like the, the visuals, It it was
13:12
those stories that I could watch in front of my mother and not be
13:15
embarrassed by, you know, the location work in Black Park in
13:18
this episode. It looks stunning and the sets
13:21
and everything. It's very rich.
13:22
Season 18. And then I went through that
13:24
teenage stage of, you know, rebelling against stuff that
13:27
people like. So I was like, oh, it's so
13:29
boring. All that scientific jargon.
13:31
It's, you know, very, very melancholic this season after
13:35
all the fun of 17. And now I'm somewhere in the
13:38
middle of that where I think huge changes were made for the
13:42
better from 17. It's a lot more focused, I
13:46
think, and the world building is far more impressive.
13:50
I do miss, I miss the Adam's gags though, and I miss the
13:55
sense of joy de vivre that's in 17 because it does feel as if
14:01
we're winding down here. Except this story, which I think
14:06
it's a weird fusion this of it's got Hinchcliffe horror, it's got
14:12
Williams gags and then it's got big meat science in it as well.
14:17
And that's and then like you said, it's concentrated decay
14:19
for God's sake. Talk about a sense of entropy.
14:23
Well, well fellas, should we go and watch episode 1 and see what
14:27
joys are there to behold? Is everybody ready?
14:30
I've. Got my finger poised.
14:34
I wondered what that was. OK, well will someone count as
14:38
in please, Peter, will you do as the honours of?
14:40
Course I will do so in 3/2 one go.
14:47
In we go. Oh, those exploding stars.
14:50
I mean, this must take you back, Peter.
14:52
Yeah. I remember obviously having done
14:54
season 17, it's my first season. I remember watching the first
14:58
episode of The Leisure High and going.
15:01
Wow. Oh, what in a positive way?
15:05
Yeah, like this was this was just wow.
15:10
TV has peaks. Yeah, TV has peaks and and then
15:13
obviously that that great opening shot in thing, but we're
15:16
not there. We're watching this opening shot
15:18
here in State of Decay, and we're about to have this
15:20
magnificent shot of what is definitely not a spaceship.
15:23
No. Well, I mean now.
15:26
I mean, I've sort of got to the age now with Doctor Who where
15:29
pony special effects just have no impact on me.
15:32
I didn't realize just how good a shot of the castle this is,
15:35
right? This is this is like a matte
15:37
screen on top and it's done really.
15:40
Have you seen it in the special features?
15:41
I said as they're putting the glass shot in.
15:43
Amazing, yeah. Now, I'm going to ask a question
15:49
immediately, all right, to both of you vampires in Doctor Who,
15:53
Paul. Well, these are probably the
15:56
best vampires in Doctor Who. I think they're much better than
15:59
the Curse of Fenrick. I mean, and just look how sort
16:02
of gothic they are and operatic. You're talking more language,
16:06
Paul. Better than the Curse of
16:08
Fenrick. I love the Curse of Fenrick, so
16:10
you know. But no, this is done.
16:12
This is your more traditional vampire though, isn't it?
16:15
I'll rive review Oh Fay with sort of vampire mythology.
16:19
Well, I've kind of got into a bit.
16:20
I mean, yeah, Paul's absolutely right.
16:22
These are much more sort of Bram Stoker kind of vampires.
16:26
And what's interesting is as part of sort of research this, I
16:29
read the two books that sort of Blood Harvest and Goth opera,
16:33
right? And so Terence Dix writes Blood
16:37
Harvest again in that kind of Bram Stoker Nostravati kind of
16:41
vampire, but Paul Cornell's is very much sort of Twilighty and
16:46
kind of stuff, right? And so I like that.
16:49
These are the old stuff vampires.
16:50
And we'll talk a bit more later. I love the law.
16:52
I love the way the tense. Dix is is taking one of his few
16:56
opportunities to write Doctor Who to write more Gallifrey law
17:02
in this. But can I just Also, which of
17:04
those two books did you prefer? Golf opera because I thought,
17:11
because for me, Blood Harvest feels a bit convoluted.
17:14
At the end it feels it feels that like 3/4 of it is just a
17:19
setup for the last 10%. There's also far too many rape
17:22
references in Blood Harvest for my liking, Terrance.
17:26
Well, you don't mean you're dead now, so you're not listening.
17:28
But please stop doing that sort of thing.
17:31
Good grief. Although now this is very much
17:33
starting like an old hammer, isn't it?
17:35
Yeah. The village to where?
17:37
By the castle with all the yokels in it.
17:41
It's very gothic, right? It's very, it's very, I mean
17:44
it's very kind of they've they've gone back to the mid 70s
17:47
and nicked some of those sets or the costumes and and stuck them
17:50
in right. It's it, but but it's great
17:54
scene setting, right? You you look at that and you
17:56
think it's medieval castle. It's that and you think, I mean
17:59
obviously part the king and the queen and his counsellor from
18:02
having amazing eyeshadow, right? It's just, you know, it's like
18:05
very medieval gothic. But is it?
18:09
It's really clever. I.
18:11
Mean, sorry, I was going to say thank, thank goodness it is
18:16
gothic, because I mean, bid Meade wanted it to be sort of
18:19
futuristic, didn't he? I mean, Terrance really had to
18:23
fight to keep it gothic, as did Peter Moffett, the director,
18:27
because that's what he wanted to direct.
18:30
Well, the things though, had they just gone down that sort of
18:32
scientific route, you would have had full circle, which is
18:34
sci-fi. You would have had this, which
18:36
would have been sci-fi, and then you would have Warriors Gate.
18:38
Whereas I think you put this in the middle of those two with all
18:42
of those gothic trappings, especially the design, you know,
18:45
and the performance styles and things like that.
18:47
It really feels unique. Oh, here we go.
18:51
Here's K9 in what second to last story, chaps.
18:55
This is probably his best outing in the season.
18:57
Do we think he doesn't get his head knocked off or thrown into
19:00
the sea? That's right, yeah.
19:02
Anything else? Does anything happen to him in
19:04
it now? He starts blasting away glasses
19:06
so far, doesn't he? He.
19:08
Shoots a few things in in in in this.
19:11
He spits out quite a lot of ticker tape.
19:13
I seem to remember as well he. Does yeah, the record of Rap
19:16
Salon is in is in there at at some point.
19:19
Of course, what we don't what what the doctrine reminded them
19:22
at this point, but we do if we've watched last episode, is
19:26
there's an Alzarian hidden hidden in.
19:30
The there isn't indeed. Yes, now.
19:34
I mean, the walk he does upon his reveal is the most
19:39
intriguing walk I've ever seen through the TARDIS.
19:41
I mean, Paul, Matthew Waterhouse, was he too young for
19:46
this, or was he too inexperienced for this?
19:49
I think he was too inexperienced and plus everybody seemed to be
19:52
running a different character, didn't they?
19:54
I mean, Terence is obviously going to the arts with Dodger as
19:57
described, and this was his first one recorded, wasn't it?
20:00
I was. About to say, this is the first
20:02
one. This is sort of, what is it?
20:04
April, end of April, start of May in 1980.
20:07
This is the first one he records.
20:09
He's a bit, he's a bit fresh. So it's a bit like watching
20:13
Peter Davidson in Fort a Doomsday, right?
20:15
He just hasn't quite worked out yet how he wants to play the
20:18
character. So this is this is this is
20:21
Burnham Beaches. Isn't it famous for filming
20:24
Carry On Camping? That's right, yeah.
20:27
I'm breaking them, isn't it? Yeah.
20:28
I mean, I feel like they've chosen the most autumnal day
20:31
there has ever been in that park.
20:34
I mean, it's so perfect. The look of that location work.
20:37
And don't we love a TARDIS in a in a wooded area?
20:40
But I do. Maybe I'm strange.
20:42
Well, I think he's burgundy coat as well in that location.
20:45
Just there's, you know, the the famous stills of this story are
20:49
probably him and Romana, you know, with the telescope and
20:51
that and the part. Here he is.
20:55
Bye, bye, K9, he said. Sorry, you've got to stay in the
20:58
TARDIS. We're in the wooded land that we
21:00
can't actually allow you to navigate.
21:02
Yes, had enough of problems of that on Azarius with all the
21:06
runners we had with him. It is beautiful.
21:11
This location work though, isn't it?
21:13
Now, is that a genuine beard? Because not quite we're not
21:17
quite having sort of creature from the pit beard problems in
21:20
in this story, but we're still going sort of there are there
21:24
are some beards here that are like you just glued that on 5
21:27
minutes ago, didn't you, mate? Oh, I'm so pleased that you
21:30
brought that up, Peter, because one of the questions that have
21:32
come from the ham fan, which I'll be peppering for, is from
21:35
our Daniel Rawnsley, who asks who has the best beard in this
21:40
story. So you got to keep your eyes
21:41
peeled, Ivo Zargo, Kalmar, Orkin or Tarak.
21:48
All right, so let's keep your eye on those beards we go
21:52
through. I mean, look at Pete as fabulous
21:53
beard, right? That's a real beard.
21:55
OK, I'm assuming Peter. That's a real beard.
21:58
This is a real beard. I get this sculpted every about
22:02
5 or 6 weeks at a a local place and she does a fantastic job and
22:07
we've we've, we've actually worked over 5 or 6 months of
22:10
growing out. But The thing is nobody can see
22:12
me. They don't want to know about
22:13
the beard. What they do want to know about?
22:14
It I can't grow it out? No.
22:16
Oh, you know how these commentary goes.
22:18
Never mind the story. I can't grow it out because it
22:21
gets really itchy, so I always have to cut it down.
22:23
But mine's always quite small. I could not grow a proper beard
22:26
until I was well into my 40s. And it's sort of, it's just the
22:30
genetics from my father and I, I always looked really young and I
22:34
was a late developer and I hated it.
22:37
So in in my like early to mid 20s, I barely looked like I was
22:40
18 right And now. It's a bit like pole then.
22:43
Yeah, bit like pole. Yeah, and now it's great, right?
22:46
I'm 51 and I and and I you know, when I celebrated a bit my big
22:51
birthday last year and said to my colleagues on Saturday, my my
22:54
big birthday and and a friend said, oh, oh, oh, that's
22:58
fantastic. Forty well done.
23:00
I'm like, I'll take. That oh, that's a great
23:03
compliment. If someone aged me down 10
23:05
years, it will be the best day ever.
23:07
Oh, you're as smooth as a baby's bottom.
23:09
You are. I did grow mustache ones, but I
23:11
got the Mick taken out, he said. Badly.
23:13
Did they say you look like a 70's porn star?
23:15
I did, yeah. OK.
23:18
I can't even get the actions. Never mind, whilst we've been
23:21
chewing the cud about beards on the screen here, they've been
23:24
talking about all sorts by the fact that the there's no sort of
23:28
technical knowledge amongst the the villagers and this thing
23:33
called the wasting, which I believe was the original title
23:36
for this. Yes, yes.
23:38
Absolutely. And and the one that terrorists
23:40
wanted, right? He didn't want state of decay.
23:43
No, no. But obviously State of Decay
23:45
works much better with bid Meads, friends and of entry and
23:48
so on. But I, I think this is, I think
23:50
this is being set up really well.
23:52
Right. Yeah.
23:53
And now what? What we're gonna have right now
23:55
is that the first moment of kind of hang on a minute of this.
24:01
Not as all, he said. He has got some technology and
24:05
he's. Talking to Calmore.
24:08
Yeah, and. I yeah, I think this is, I just
24:11
think in terms of storytelling, this is just, this is just
24:14
making you ask all the questions, right?
24:17
But of course, Terrence. Terrence has script edited what,
24:20
five years of Doctor Who? If anyone should know how to do
24:23
an episode 1 of a Doctor Who story, it's Terrence Dicks right
24:27
here he goes. Watch him walk in.
24:29
Bless him. Pete is doing an depression
24:33
right now. It's staggeringly accurate.
24:38
You Remember Me, fellas? Adric.
24:40
Yes. Immature.
24:43
Humanoid. Is it wrong of me to sort of, to
24:47
sort of say at this point I just feel Canines run out of steam?
24:52
I'm not talking about his battery.
24:53
It's just like I, I, I just feel like he's sort of saying stuff
24:59
that he's just a prop. He's just a plot device now.
25:04
He's not really a character. I think, yeah, I think you're.
25:07
Right. They didn't really want him
25:08
there, did they? So.
25:09
Exactly that. Yeah.
25:10
They didn't want him for 18. That's why, like you said, Paul,
25:12
he's beaten up and decapitated and blown up and had terrible
25:17
things happened to him in this season.
25:19
The way that Adric Trixon in a moment, right, is that that
25:23
makes no sense, because if he was really a robot and he'd
25:26
really have responsibility for the time to go.
25:27
No, no, no. You just sit down and contact
25:29
the doctor, right? That's what he would really do.
25:32
I would have shot Adric if I'm on a if I was canine and just
25:35
said no, you ain't getting nowhere.
25:36
Yeah, your mischief. Although like to be fair you
25:41
need something later to give out all of that exposition about the
25:45
old ones and the vampires and because if it was just Tommy in
25:49
the TARDIS and he could do it, it would be a bit weird of him
25:53
just talking to himself. Like can we have a moment of
25:57
appreciation for Lal awards outfit here?
26:01
I mean, can we have appreciation for all of her outfits
26:04
throughout her entire time? Apart from the Armageddon
26:07
factor, which is just like, ridiculous, but actually.
26:12
Well, I mean it does. It does look like her.
26:15
Her arms have been cut off in that, but I mean the horns of
26:18
Naiman one, the blood red one. But this is this is Van Helsing,
26:21
right? This is, this is, yes, she's a,
26:23
she's a vampire hunter before she even even get there.
26:26
Fantastic. I mean, she looks like the
26:29
Aristocat there, doesn't she? Like, absolutely yes.
26:31
She is the Honourable AL Award. And and stuck with a Vagabond.
26:36
And as we know, that was occurring in real life right
26:40
now. There we go.
26:41
I believe at some point later the pizza will be charting the
26:44
moments where they're fucking and happy and fucking and
26:48
unhappy. This is this is true.
26:51
You can actually work out day by day in filming when they are
26:54
actually shagging and when they're not talking to each
26:57
other. It's.
26:58
Very. Is it eye contact?
26:59
Well, it's always contact. There's.
27:01
A bit of eye contact, but when they're coming down the when
27:05
they're in the towards the end of episode 2, notice me again on
27:09
this, when they're coming down this shaft dropping into a
27:11
thing, I'll explain it to you there.
27:14
Oh my God, the three who rule. I thought they just blissfully
27:19
melodramatic, aren't they? If I could go about my working
27:23
day as melodramatic as this three, I'll be so happy.
27:29
Countless inhabited Hovis loaves or waiting to feed the customers
27:34
hunger. You know, I'd love look at this
27:38
bit of direction now this. Is this is great.
27:40
I love this. This is fantastic.
27:42
And and and I think it was when I was watching this originally.
27:46
I think this is the point where I'm going.
27:48
Are they vampires? Well, because they're the bat,
27:53
yeah. Yeah, because of of the bat and
27:55
so on. And it's all just beginning to
27:57
click. This is this is kind of kind of,
27:59
you know, interesting having the old spaceship there and so on.
28:02
Yeah. I've recently spoke to a fellow,
28:05
you know Paul Arthur who does the 60s, seventies, 80s Doctor
28:09
Who props Instagram account and there's some wreckage there.
28:15
The round things they turned up in about 8 different stories.
28:18
I mean, recycling props was definitely a thing.
28:21
Mr. Kimber, look. I didn't realize this.
28:26
I didn't realize that I wasn't terrible of the verse.
28:29
I hadn't put it together until I watched this.
28:33
Really. Yeah, and then of course he is.
28:35
He's the bloke who gets old. He murdered.
28:37
Mr. Halet, how good to see you again.
28:41
I mean, what is going on with his hair?
28:43
I mean his hair in those little strands.
28:46
What? This is, I mean, this is, this
28:48
is, it sort of smacks of somebody like, you know, he's
28:51
60-70 years old but still wants to be cool, right?
28:53
It's like give it up, give it up.
28:55
That's not his hair, is it? His string isn't it?
28:58
How is he? I think so.
29:00
That's hair, surely? It's like a weak thing.
29:05
True story. My father used to comb over see.
29:09
Where I got it from, I think my marks going that way, Piers, you
29:13
know he. Used to come up and my mother
29:15
was just fed up of it. So when he went to the
29:17
hairdressers, she went to the he went to the same head as her.
29:20
She basically bribed the chap who was doing it to cut it off
29:24
to do a trim it to like a #3 #4 and let it say it took like 10
29:28
years off him. So so if you're listening to
29:30
this gents, and you are trying to hide your bold patch, don't
29:34
bother. Go short.
29:36
It'll take years off. You live, live who you are are.
29:40
You listening to this, Mark? All right, OK, Stop brushing it
29:44
over. I mean, I bet that Barber was
29:46
like to your dad. She made me do it, all right?
29:49
She told me to do. It or look like a classic Tom
29:53
Baker stare off. But you can see he wasn't very
29:57
well making this, can't you? Because his hair has really lost
29:59
its. Body.
30:01
So didn't they? Didn't they have him in curling
30:03
every day? Yeah, and it was just going
30:05
straight, straight away, wasn't it?
30:07
Yeah, and actually when you look at his eyes, he is unwell here.
30:11
He really responds well to this script though.
30:14
I think there's the wit in this script.
30:17
This is the first scene Matthew Walter has ever recorded in
30:20
Doctor Who. Oh, what the cheese scene?
30:23
The the lack of cheese scene do. You have some cheese, gentlemen
30:26
for the call. I.
30:27
Well, I want these. Chorizo and and sort of
30:30
jalapeno. Crisps.
30:32
Oh, love it. I mean, I I know you, you know,
30:35
you refined gentleman. I brought some gorgonzola along
30:38
with me, you know, for you to try.
30:41
I mean, I mean, someone else here, Guy Lambert says, do you
30:43
have any cheese? Well, I mean, you just answered
30:45
that one right? Have you Joe?
30:47
Have you ever eaten Gorgonzola with honey?
30:51
Gorgonzola with honey, no. OK, so Peter's currently tipped
30:55
for the evening, of course. Take a piece of, you know, cut
30:59
some gorgonzola. Try and keep put it onto
31:01
something before it kind of runs away.
31:03
Drizzle a little bit of honey on it before you eat it.
31:07
Trust me, your life will never be the same again.
31:11
That sounds absolutely, and I do love cheese at Christmas time,
31:13
You know, Paul, please will you add one of your own culinary
31:16
tips in now, please? Come on.
31:19
Oh, this isn't just a commentary podcast, folks.
31:21
Where will we enrich your lives? I can't think.
31:23
Of a colour? Any chipmunks?
31:24
Oh well, you've got you've got 4.
31:27
Are you a trained chef? I am.
31:31
Then why are we not being presented with the best cheese
31:33
we've ever seen? I know.
31:35
Because I've not got any food on me.
31:36
Right. You've got till episode 4, all
31:38
right to think up a culinary tip like that.
31:41
I want it to be as least as good as Gorkon, Zola and Honey, OK?
31:44
Try my best. Oh no, hang on, my thing's doing
31:47
an update. No, no, stop.
31:49
But Joe, hello. Truly, we wanted to have the
31:52
best cheese that we've ever seen.
31:54
We'd be doing time in the Ronnie instead of this.
31:56
I said cheese in time in the Ronnie cheese.
31:58
Oh my God, how did I not get that?
32:03
Sorry, I went straight over my head.
32:05
Oh my God. Look now, what's it called?
32:09
A technicophaca. Is that what?
32:10
Is that what Romana says about the?
32:12
Yeah, yes. What the hell does that mean?
32:14
I. Think that's a made-up word, but
32:17
something that is old and then becomes archaic or something I.
32:22
Don't know. Yeah, OK, I've got.
32:23
Something that that is technological but old.
32:27
I've got a question for both of you because the wasting is
32:30
clearly a Terrance Sticks idea and a Technicophaca is clearly a
32:35
Christopher H Bidmeade idea. Now do you think because we know
32:40
this was a contentious relationship they absolutely
32:43
didn't get on and they fought over this script?
32:46
I mean bid me but are quite rude about terrorists and the special
32:49
features on the DVD and bid me sorry Dicks who is never short
32:54
of being honest about people. Basically says he really didn't
32:57
like and he was happy when Peter Moffitt said no.
33:00
Put all the gothic stuff in or I'm not doing this.
33:02
Do you think it's a successful fusion despite the contention?
33:07
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
33:09
I mean, I think everybody's bringing their best bit to it.
33:13
So the whole is the whole is really, really good.
33:19
Yeah, because because I think what we get is we get the stuff
33:23
from Bid Me that he wants to weave the entropy theme through,
33:28
but we don't but but we lose some of the stuff that I think
33:31
would room story. For example, I think big Mead
33:33
wanted that Ivo's sort of village setting to be look like
33:37
it was an old sort of habit, you know, habitation module from a
33:42
spaceship being reused. And, and Dick said no, no, no.
33:46
And, and, and I think actually, if it, if it had looked like
33:49
that, so you go into there like 7-8 minutes in, it spoils the
33:53
effect, right. I think, I think what we've got
33:56
here is this, it's wonderful kind of it's Gothic, it's
34:00
medieval, but it's not feel. And actually you're having big
34:04
me sort of restrained from from putting those things in has
34:06
actually helped this story really well.
34:08
I think in terms of execution, yeah, whenever they do, whenever
34:13
they lean into this because this, it has all the trappings
34:16
of a historical right. It's peasants.
34:18
It's, you know, but it's set in the future and every time they
34:21
do this, I think Andrews of Tara does this as well.
34:26
There's there was another 10 Rebus operation as well as
34:29
another one which is in the future, but looks like it could
34:32
be set in the past. Those are the ones I think that
34:35
just hold up because it's not, it's not trying to give you an
34:39
idea of what the future looks like.
34:41
And it's basically post apocalyptic, isn't it?
34:45
And it sort of fits into that kind of genre.
34:48
And we're about to go through a post apocalyptic kind of series,
34:53
things like The Day of the Triffids Reds in 198485, you
34:59
know which? Was survivors already?
35:00
Yeah, the survivors. It fits that.
35:04
That's sort of feel. I love these.
35:05
I love these bats. They're fantastic.
35:07
Oh, this was the big argument, wasn't it?
35:09
About the blue bloods? Yeah.
35:10
Yeah, it is and. You can just see it if you look,
35:12
yeah. Yeah.
35:15
Wasn't JN say like who the hell let him get away with?
35:18
Yeah. That's like pom, isn't it?
35:21
That's. His last few moments of having
35:24
his way. I think this is a cracking end
35:28
to Episode 1. I think this is just like this
35:31
ramps the gothic up. It's feeding into the vampire
35:35
feel now, which we still haven't fully established, but we're
35:39
kind of getting there. I've just marvelous.
35:41
I mean, yeah, there's a little. Bit of it's been that's on a
35:43
string though, isn't. It it is a bit of hanging.
35:46
It's all they can do, though. I mean, there's no, I mean, if
35:50
they try to do this as an electronic effect now, it would
35:53
just be so pony. I'd rather have bats on the
35:55
street, I mean. These are David Attenborough's
35:57
bats. Are they Yes. 6 year old me
36:01
thought that was awesome. Yes, well, 45 year old me thinks
36:04
it's awesome and all that music as well.
36:07
Like do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
36:09
It's so great the way it builds up.
36:12
I actually think as well, you know, a director that gets given
36:15
a lot of grief, mostly by me, Peter Moffett.
36:19
Manny starts strong in this story, like he really is trying
36:23
here I think. Yeah.
36:24
No, this is, this is a great debut thing, Yeah.
36:26
This is clearly his strength doing something sort of period.
36:29
I know it's not period, but it's almost period, isn't it so and?
36:33
It it moves from location to studio really well, right.
36:40
You know that there are there are some who's that you watch
36:43
from this period and the move from location to studio.
36:45
It's so obvious. And yes, it is obvious
36:48
technically in terms of, you know, the, the, the camera work
36:52
and so on. But actually it moves really,
36:54
really well and you don't really realise that these are sets.
36:58
Yeah, Yeah, I think you're right.
37:00
I think. And I think in the 70's the the
37:02
the move from film to videotape can be so jarring.
37:07
Sorry, Paul, what was you going to say there?
37:09
No, I was just going to agree with with Peter there that this
37:13
is Peter Moffett's most strongest thing.
37:16
And you do, you move from location to studio and it's not
37:19
jarring in the same way you watch that.
37:22
Even as a child, I could tell when you were on film and when
37:25
you were in the studio. I mean, I appear to be the only
37:28
person in our house who could see it, but.
37:30
It's a frequent thing, right? I mean, Toby says that all the
37:33
time. And my mum, that's film, that's
37:35
video. She's like, all right, dear.
37:36
Yeah, you did. What the hell are you talking
37:38
about? Well, look, fellas, I'm going to
37:41
swing us around now. Episode one has ended.
37:43
To the Ham fam who came in with some introductory questions for
37:47
for Peter and for you and me, Paul.
37:50
Let's start with Guy Lambert. I'm going to do 2 people per
37:53
episode. We'll start with Guy Lambert.
37:54
Hello, Guy. You know Guy, I know you work in
37:58
television. All right, you've got a part for
38:00
me. Let me know.
38:00
Thank you. Right.
38:02
Number 1. He asks, is this Lala's best
38:05
outfit? Let's go.
38:07
Let's go. Peter, Paul, me.
38:10
Is it Lala's best outfit? No, but it's pretty close.
38:19
I as much as it's incredibly disturbing, I think her outfit
38:25
in City of Death is better. It's just very, very clever.
38:28
They're saying a word. And I and I think in terms of I
38:34
mean this, this is an outfit that coheres with the story
38:39
theme, right? I think the next story, her last
38:45
story warriors Gate with fitting with the whole aishing sort of
38:52
Eastern philosophy theme. Her outfit is bang on and I
38:57
think. That's beautiful, isn't it?
38:58
It's just gorgeous. It's textured, it's just, oh,
39:01
it's fine. But I think, as I said earlier,
39:04
she doesn't wear a single, a single thing that is, that is,
39:08
that is, that is not good. And if Paul's about to say Eden,
39:13
he's just wrong. Oh, come on, Paul.
39:16
It's a quilt. It's a quilt.
39:20
Dude, you think this is her best outfit?
39:22
I don't, but I along with Peter, I think it's one of her better
39:26
ones. I mean, I put this in in order
39:29
at #4 it's stated decay. OK.
39:33
But #2 it would be her horns and I'm on, or Nimon or Nimon one
39:41
number two. I would put her Destiny of the
39:44
Daleks. Mirror in the.
39:47
Which I think is absolutely so clever and and so wonderful.
39:52
And also, along with Peter, I would put City of Death up at #1
39:57
simply because that she gave me hours of pleasure.
40:00
What a kinky pair I've got on this call.
40:03
Well, oh God, I'm outnumbered today.
40:06
I've just realized, my God, this is the straightest hamster of
40:10
all time. Well, I mean, I've got to say I
40:13
think she looks at her best in red.
40:15
So I think it's Naimon and Warriors gay.
40:18
It's such a striking colour on a woman.
40:20
I think red. And she's like a porcelain
40:22
bloody doll. She's so white.
40:23
You put her in red and she just looks like a beautiful sort of
40:27
period actress. But it is a great outfit.
40:30
Well, question number 2 is should Adricif continue with the
40:35
Artful Dodger vibe we see in episode 1, or was Waterhouse
40:38
Waterhouse, even Waterhouse, too middle class to really make that
40:43
truly work? So Matthew Waterhouse makes me
40:51
look possibly, probably, you know, a chaff from the gutter.
40:55
I mean, he is just he is so so I mean middle class.
40:58
I didn't begin to describe it, but the but the problem is he's
41:03
not like he's not like the Lala Ward upper class.
41:08
That doesn't have to prove anything.
41:10
She's just got full of that grace and confidence.
41:12
I think Matthew Waterhouse's problem is that he's just not
41:15
quite sure of who he is and so on.
41:18
I don't think the Artful Dodger works for him because of that.
41:21
It's just not got that kind of cottony geezer kind of yeah
41:24
thing. There isn't a hint of Estuary
41:26
English there, right? Think of what's his name from
41:28
the awakening that that kid in that wheel would have been
41:32
perfect for that sort of thing. I actually think how how Adric's
41:35
character evolves where they lean into the mathematical
41:39
genius and the just the slightly sort of the teenager who doesn't
41:44
get it. And I've got two teenagers and
41:45
the oldest 1 is like 17. And then a moment they just
41:48
doesn't get it, doesn't understand life.
41:51
When they lean into that, actually it works.
41:55
And that plays to his middle class strength, Paul.
42:01
Well, I mean, he's not really acting, is he?
42:03
I feel like he's just saying the words.
42:06
So he's just doing himself, isn't he?
42:09
Yeah. So I agree totally what Peter
42:11
said. I.
42:12
Just I feel for him, I really do.
42:15
I've read Blue Box Boy and I feel for a young boy that's been
42:19
given his dream job with an actor that he admires so much.
42:23
And then he goes onto the set and he's effectively emotionally
42:27
abused by both of those. I mean it.
42:30
And the fact that he then still has to give a performance even
42:33
though they're not talking and they're swearing at him and it's
42:36
a really toxic environment. Like kudos to him for going on
42:40
and doing what he does and. What's interesting is of course,
42:43
is that actually in Keeper of Track and where it's just him
42:45
and Tom, it's the only story where he just, it's just him
42:48
and. It works, doesn't it?
42:50
It does. Work.
42:51
It's surprising, but it really and it's almost as though Tom so
42:55
his thing. I think the thing Tom was always
42:58
come competing with Lala for stardom and because he doesn't
43:03
have to compete with with Waterhouse because there is no
43:06
contest, but he can just chill out and it is that is actually a
43:12
bit some of the you know, it's all studio bound and has all
43:16
kinds of problems. Keep up talking.
43:18
But amidst all of that, but Tom and Matthew, the the two of them
43:25
together and keep a truck, Yeah, it just works.
43:28
I I think it really does as well and that even in the start of
43:31
Lagopolis as well, I think bid me as a good grasp on that
43:35
pairing. The only person who doesn't is
43:37
Tom Baker on the commentary who goes, Oh my God, this is so
43:40
boring. When are we ever going to leave
43:41
the TARDIS? But you know, he's naughty Tom.
43:44
Well, I'm going to skip over them to our Daniel Rawlsley.
43:47
OK, lovely Daniel. Hello, He says.
43:51
The story's very setting ends up holding the solution to the
43:55
problem. Oh, we're skipping to the end
43:56
now, chaps. Any other types of Doctor Who,
43:59
stroke, TV in general where this type of storytelling excels?
44:03
So the setting in forming the solution, Oh, that's flummox the
44:09
pair of you, isn't it? Has, has has.
44:12
So Battlestar Galactica is the obvious kind of one of those.
44:18
I can't say they've ever been a massive Battlestar Galactica fan
44:21
of the old series or the new one.
44:23
I kind of get the old because I'm into, I'm into theology and
44:28
Battlestar Galactica is based in Mormon theology.
44:31
And I've also had a thing about studying Mormon theology.
44:34
I don't believe a word of it, but it's interesting studying
44:36
it. That's what's been interesting
44:37
for me, Battlestar Galactica. And so the very setting is is
44:42
the story. It's the main part of the story.
44:46
So that kind of fits in into that apartment.
44:51
I don't think I've got much. I don't haven't got any other
44:53
examples. I'm not, I'm not Toby.
44:56
Hey Doug, I can't reel off 10 different stories.
44:59
You wait Tillis Martin. I've got some examples, Paul.
45:04
Do you know what I cannot think of 1?
45:06
I probably will later when I've given it some thought.
45:09
Is it crazy? Are you mad It's this bloody
45:12
trilogy? I mean Alzarious, absolutely.
45:15
The biological cycle of Alzarious informs the ending of
45:17
that story. Warriors Gate, the gateway
45:20
absolutely informs the ending of that story.
45:24
I'll say Lagopolis, the the setting absolutely informs the
45:28
end. I mean, it's a big theme in
45:30
season 18. It is that the place itself?
45:33
It's basically like a character, isn't it?
45:35
I guess Castro, Velva, then it's the same, yeah.
45:37
OK, I see your point, Joe. So our goal list.
45:41
God, can you explain it back to me then, please?
45:44
If you see my point? Yeah, go on, go on, go on.
45:48
So yeah, our goal list is the story.
45:51
I mean, I've been more looking at season 18 and sort of
45:54
thinking of those entropy, death and rebirth kind of themes which
45:59
permeate all the way through. But I think you're you're
46:01
absolutely right. There's there's a lot of the
46:02
setting is the story. The screens of Zolfafura inform
46:07
the ending of Megalos. Here we go.
46:09
Yeah. Absolutely.
46:10
He's bloody obsessed with doing it.
46:11
Well, the second question, as is somewhat more facetiously.
46:15
Snog, Marry Impale with a conveniently spiky Arrow class
46:20
scout ship. Orcon, Camilla, Zargo.
46:25
Let's go to Peter first. That's the newbie.
46:28
OK, So what are the options? Snog.
46:30
Man impale with a conveniently spiky hour class cow scout ship.
46:35
Yeah, I'm assuming in in. Is is impale here a euphemism?
46:41
It can be if you want it to be, yes.
46:44
OK, I'm I'm. I'm I'm I assume it's Camilla
46:47
then the last one. Well, now thereby hangs the
46:53
story. Oh, I don't know.
46:56
I don't know. I'm very happily married to my
46:58
wife, so I'm not going to answer that question.
47:00
They're all. Vampires, and they all deserve
47:04
boat. Ships.
47:06
Come on, Paul, how would you snog?
47:08
In case I would, I'd snog Camilla hard impaired or con.
47:18
OK. I mean, wow, impaling 00.
47:22
With a scour ship, yeah. Yeah, and then I I'd maraud
47:26
after Mario's Argo, wouldn't I? But I would absolutely impale
47:31
Orcon the way he whispers the word come in episode 2.
47:36
I mean, come on now. I would snog.
47:39
Oh, Camilla, she's beautiful right when she starts baring her
47:43
teeth. I mean, she'd give you a great
47:44
Hickey. And what's the other one?
47:47
Maori. Oh, Zargo.
47:49
I mean, he's the king. That's where the money is,
47:51
right? Mind you, I bet he's popular.
47:53
Camilla with that beard. Oh indeed, indeed.
47:57
Well fellas, I mean, I've got some more as intriguing
48:00
questions for 2-3 and four, but I suppose we better go and skip
48:04
on into episode 2. What do you think?
48:06
Absolutely. Go on then.