Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HORRIFIC: JAYLIN, 8, "TRAMPOLINED DEAD" IN SCORCHING 110F HEAT BY SICK PARENTS

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HORRIFIC: JAYLIN, 8, "TRAMPOLINED DEAD" IN SCORCHING 110F HEAT BY SICK PARENTS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace horrific. A beautiful little girl, Jaalen,
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Speaker 1: just eight years old, trampoline dead and scorching Texas heat
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Speaker 1: one hundred and ten degrees fahrenheit. By who an evil monster?
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Speaker 1: I guess you could say so, her sick parents. I'm
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: It's a hot summer morning in Odessa, Texas, and eight
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Speaker 3: year old Jalen Schwartz is outside jumping on the trampoline.
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Speaker 3: But what appears as an otherwise fun and innocent game
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Speaker 3: for an eight year old girl turns out to be deadly.
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Speaker 2: Abuse jumping on the trampoline.
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Speaker 1: There was never a happier day than when our twins
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Speaker 1: got a trampoline. Of course, we dragged it straight to
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Speaker 1: the front yard and it's been the centerpiece ever since.
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Speaker 1: But for this eight year old little girl, the trampolining
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Speaker 1: wasn't for fun. It was for punishment. Joining me in
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Speaker 1: all star panels straight out to Erica Miller joining.
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Speaker 2: Us from Odessa, Texas.
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Speaker 1: Content Manager Digital ep K m I D Big two News. Erica,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Thank you.
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Speaker 1: It's that mean. It wasn't jumping the trampoline for fun.
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Speaker 1: It was for punishment.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, the forms of the punishment in this house seemed
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Speaker 4: to be rather sadistic.
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Speaker 5: For me.
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Speaker 4: It's it's knowing that what a Texas heat is like
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Speaker 4: West Texas is dry is there's no cool breeze, no shade,
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Speaker 4: and so knowing that she was out there being punished.
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Speaker 4: When your child is out in that kind of heat playing,
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Speaker 4: you check on them routinely, constantly, because you know the
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Speaker 4: danger is very real. So to have these little girls
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Speaker 4: out there as a form of punishment was horrible. They
2:01
Speaker 4: couldn't get into the house, and they couldn't turn the
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Speaker 4: spigott to turn on the faucet outside. There was no water,
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Speaker 4: There was no respite from that heat for them.
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Speaker 1: Erica Miller joining us from KMID and now to a
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Speaker 1: special guest. It's Tom Green, former Chief Deputy chau County
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Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office in the Homicide Division and the Cold Case
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Speaker 1: Squad currently PI Private I at Nevada Investigative Services. Tom Green, again,
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Speaker 1: as always, thank you for being with us. I find
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Speaker 1: that very probative. In other words, it proves something that
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Speaker 1: this little girl, just eight years old, is punished by
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Speaker 1: forcing her to jump on a trampoline, NonStop and correct
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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Erica Miller, she can't have a
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Speaker 1: water break. If she gets tired and thirsty and has
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Speaker 1: to stop, the punishment must continue without water.
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Speaker 2: And if she gets water, then.
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Speaker 1: Time is added on. And what I'm saying is probed
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Speaker 1: of Tom Green, is that, as you heard Erica Miller say,
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Speaker 1: the spickets were cut off. She couldn't just walk up
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Speaker 1: like in many houses there's a water spickett on the
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Speaker 1: side of the house somewhere, maybe.
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Speaker 2: A hose attached to it.
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Speaker 1: No, they had those cut off.
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Speaker 2: A dysfunctional Tom.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know that.
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Speaker 5: We see such a tragic, tragic story, and you know it,
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Speaker 5: and it does show. It shows an intent, right, it
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Speaker 5: shows an intempt to potentially harm these children, to put
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Speaker 5: them in great danger. And it's torturous. You know that's
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Speaker 5: not all. That's not all they did. I mean, it's
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Speaker 5: just sick and statistic and torturous, is what I see.
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Speaker 1: Tom Green joining us out Arena, former chief deputy in
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Speaker 1: Washoe County. You're right, other punishments, when taken in context,
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Speaker 1: prove or I would submit, prove that she wasn't jumping
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Speaker 1: for fun. So many routine events or chores were turned in,
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Speaker 1: they were weaponized, turned into punishment. And you know, Tom
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Speaker 1: Green says something really interesting straight up to Kenneth Trey
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Speaker 1: gober managing partner League Gobert and Raina there in Texas.
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Speaker 1: Kenneth Trey Gobert, let me throw this at you. Very often,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure you, as a veteran trial lawyer, would argue, well.
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Speaker 2: Where's the intent here?
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Speaker 1: It's not just sending the child out to jump on
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Speaker 1: the trampoline in one hundred and ten degree weather. It's scorching.
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Speaker 1: Then you've got the heat on top of the trampoline,
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Speaker 1: the black trampoline cover like on a parking lot that
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Speaker 1: gets hotter than everywhere else because of the black asphalt.
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Speaker 2: But every minute adds to the pre meditation.
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Speaker 1: And you and I know as trial lawyers, premeditation can
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Speaker 1: be formed in an instant and the twinkling of a moment,
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Speaker 1: the blink of an eye, the time it takes you
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Speaker 1: to literally pull a trigger. The law does not require
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Speaker 1: a long drawn out plan like hmm, I'm gonna kill
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Speaker 1: Trey gober by hiding behind his car and I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: wait three or four hours until he walks out at lunchtime,
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Speaker 1: then I'm gonna cap him, or like a long drawn
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Speaker 1: out poisoning over weeks and months to kill your target.
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Speaker 1: Premeditation does not require any particular amount of time.
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Speaker 7: Does it.
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Speaker 8: This was a difficult one for the defense, but there's
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Speaker 8: a difficulty to prove in an intent on this case. Nancy.
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Speaker 8: You know, children go out, they jump on trampolines every
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Speaker 8: single day. Parents have them do that. We talk about
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Speaker 8: when you get kids away from screen time and more
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Speaker 8: going outside and having fun and so.
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Speaker 1: Okay, yes, but mostly no. All parents want their children
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Speaker 1: to go out in green spaces and get off, stop
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Speaker 1: lying on their bed on top of their phone. But
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Speaker 1: are you actually equating forcing a little girl eight years
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Speaker 1: old and one hundred and ten degree weather one hundred
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Speaker 1: and ten degree weather. You're saying they did this to
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Speaker 1: keep her away.
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Speaker 2: From screen time.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what. Listen to this.
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Speaker 9: So let's start a timer and let's see exactly how
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Speaker 9: hot it gets in here. I'm at five minutes in.
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Speaker 9: It is unbelievably hot in here. We're nearing one hundred
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Speaker 9: degrees already, and I can tell you that it is
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Speaker 9: stifling in here. Okay, I'm at fifteen minutes now, and
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Speaker 9: it's about one hundred and ten. In my car. The
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Speaker 9: temperature right now is about one fifteen. What I really
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Speaker 9: wanted to set out to do is see how it
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Speaker 9: felt to be left in a parked car.
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Speaker 1: That's around our friend doctor Ernie Ward's YouTube channel, and
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Speaker 1: we enlisted that because we were looking at hot cars.
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Speaker 1: He was actually speaking about leaving your dog in a
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Speaker 1: hot car. But the principle is the same here because
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Speaker 1: he's in a car and it's you know, maybe one
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Speaker 1: hundred degrees outside. But because of being in a car,
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Speaker 1: the temperature skyrocketed. Same thing here because she is on
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Speaker 1: a black trampoline surface. It is drawing the sun and
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Speaker 1: the heat in right. That's why in the desert they
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Speaker 1: wear white and beige garments to reflect the sun, not
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Speaker 1: draw it. In here, the heat is intensified as it
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Speaker 1: would be in a car.
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Speaker 2: Let's see that one more time.
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Speaker 9: So let's start a timer and let's see exactly how
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Speaker 9: hot it gets in here. I'm at five minutes in.
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Speaker 9: It is unbelievably hot in here. We're nearing one hundred
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Speaker 9: degrees already, and I can tell you that it is
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Speaker 9: stifling in here. Okay, I'm at fifteen minutes now and
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Speaker 9: it's about one hundred and ten in my car. The
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Speaker 9: temperature right now is about one fifteen. What I really
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Speaker 9: wanted to set out to do is see how it
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Speaker 9: felt to be left in a parked car.
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Speaker 2: From doctor Ernie Ward's YouTube channel.
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Speaker 1: Okay, back to you, Trey, Trey Gober, veteran trial lawyer.
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Speaker 1: So you actually said on National TV that they sent
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Speaker 1: her out, possibly to get away from screen time, to
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Speaker 1: get her off her phone. Okay, did you just hear
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Speaker 1: the doctor say it started one hundred degrees and within
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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes it was one hundred and he found that
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Speaker 1: quote stifling. He couldn't breathe. He was starting to feel
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Speaker 1: dizzy out there. The little girl's in one hundred and
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Speaker 1: ten to start with, on that thick black trampoline material.
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Speaker 2: So how does the fact that.
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Speaker 1: They would not let her have water breaks factor into
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Speaker 1: your wild speculative theory that maybe they were trying to
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Speaker 1: get her off her cell phone. No water breaks?
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Speaker 2: What does that have to do with outdoor time, Trey Gober.
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Speaker 8: We don't know what they were doing, and the need
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Speaker 8: to prove no water breaks is something that the fenced
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Speaker 8: or the prosecution has to defend the proof on the case.
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Speaker 8: We do know that even though the trampoline material was black,
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Speaker 8: that that surface was cooler than the ground. The ground
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Speaker 8: measured at one fifty that day. It was hot, but
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Speaker 8: new splash, it gets hot.
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Speaker 1: Up.
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Speaker 3: I'm I'm so happy.
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Speaker 1: Did you just say that the trampoline was better than
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Speaker 1: the ground because the ground temp was what.
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Speaker 8: The measurement I saw was that it was one hundred
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Speaker 8: and fifty that day in some of the ground temps.
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Speaker 1: One five zero. I'm glad you made that admission, Tray Gober,
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Speaker 1: because now the choices are put the child on one
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Speaker 1: hundred and ten degrees scorching trampoline service, or she could
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Speaker 1: just stay outside where the ground is one hundred and
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Speaker 1: fifty one five zero. You said that you did that
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Speaker 1: to yourself, Trey. That's not helping you.
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Speaker 8: The point is is we don't know what the mendrea,
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Speaker 8: what the intent was, or if there was intent on
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Speaker 8: the part of these guardians. Certainly a lot of parents
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Speaker 8: would never do this with their children. We know that
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Speaker 8: they did in this instance, and unfortunately a life was
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Speaker 8: lost in the because of it.
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Speaker 1: However, and you're doing it again, Tray Gober, I know
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Speaker 1: how you win all your cases.
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Speaker 2: You said a life was lost?
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Speaker 1: Okay, if I took out an oozy and shot you
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Speaker 1: did right now? Do you think it would be appropriate
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Speaker 1: for a commentator to say a life was lost? It
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Speaker 1: sounds like there was a big accident.
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Speaker 2: A life was lost.
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Speaker 1: Hgl n Oh. This child had no water and was
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Speaker 1: Erica Miller joining us out of Odessa? How long did
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Speaker 1: the little girl, just eight years old? How long was
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Speaker 1: she forced to jump?
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Speaker 4: From what I understand, she was out there all day long.
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Speaker 4: She had was given pigs in a blanket for breakfast,
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Speaker 4: and I believe during the course of the day was
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Speaker 4: given two cups of water. But she was out there
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Speaker 4: all day long. And I believe the last time the
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Speaker 4: parents saw her was about one point fifteen and they
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Speaker 4: said she was rolling around on that one hundred and
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Speaker 4: fifty degree ground with the dogs. And then about one
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Speaker 4: point thirty fifteen minutes later they said that she had collapsed.
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Speaker 4: But she had been out there all day long, and
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Speaker 4: when it was time for lunch, the mom offered peanut
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Speaker 4: butter and jolly sandwiches and juice, and the little girl
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Speaker 4: couldn't eat. She said she wasn't hungry. My guess says
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Speaker 4: she didn't feel very well and didn't feel like eating,
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Speaker 4: But we know it was at least from breakfast time
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Speaker 4: on to near about two o'clock in the afternoon.
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Speaker 10: She laid there on that trampoline for at least an
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Speaker 10: hour and a half to two hours before anybody ever
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Speaker 10: even found her.
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Speaker 3: On Saturday, August twenty ninth, Jalen is on the trampoline
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Speaker 3: for hours. The door to the house is locked, she
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Speaker 3: doesn't have any water, and she has been jumping for hours.
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Speaker 3: Whenever she stops jumping, she loses a water break. After
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Speaker 3: three hours of jumping on the trampoline with temperatures hovering
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Speaker 3: around one hundred and ten degrees, Jalen passes out from.
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Speaker 2: WKYT TV.
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Speaker 3: After a contentious custody transfer. Eight year old Jalen Schwartz
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Speaker 3: and her younger sister Jade are subjected to cruel and
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Speaker 3: unusual punishments by their adoptive parents, whose questionable methods of
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Speaker 3: discipline include forcing the girls to pick up dog feces
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Speaker 3: with their bare hands or carry weights in a hallway
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Speaker 3: till they're told to stop. On this day, little eight
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Speaker 3: year old Jalen is forced to jump on a trampoline
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Speaker 3: NonStop without water or food or breaks in the sweltering summer.
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Speaker 1: Text and heat, and that is the tip of the iceberg.
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Speaker 1: Everyday chores weaponized as punishment.
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Speaker 2: Listen disapline that.
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Speaker 5: These two little girls went through with the.
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Speaker 8: Guardians involved head shaving and involved prolonged corture.
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Speaker 11: Jumping on a trampoline is something Jalen Shores does for fun,
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Speaker 11: but the activity has been used by Ashley and Daniel
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Speaker 11: Shores as punishment. Jalen is forced to jump without stopping
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Speaker 11: until she's told she can stop. Their innocent activities such
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Speaker 11: as writing lines to improve her handwriting skills, carrying weights
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Speaker 11: in a hallway, or picking up dog feces have also
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Speaker 11: been weaponized by Jalen's guardians. As a punishment. Jalen is
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Speaker 11: forced to write lines over and over again until she's
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Speaker 11: told to stop. She's forced to carry weights from one
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Speaker 11: end of the hall to the other and back again,
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Speaker 11: or to pick up dog feces with her bare hands.
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Speaker 11: When the chore is not a punishment, she gets to
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Speaker 11: use gloves.
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Speaker 1: This is certainly not the first time that exercise or
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Speaker 1: fun or household chores are weaponized to become draconian, harsh
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Speaker 1: discipline for children that equals child abuse. I will never
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Speaker 1: forget the name of a little girl, Savannah Harden. Grandma
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Speaker 1: caught on tape telling the girls school bus driver she'll
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Speaker 1: quote run the girl until she quote can't run no more.
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Speaker 1: That from her f at hln the little girl, Savannah.
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Speaker 1: The grandma finds out that she ate a candy bar
15:09
Speaker 1: what she's not supposed to do, so she forces the
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Speaker 1: little girl to carrie a load of logs.
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Speaker 2: This little girl carrie.
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Speaker 1: A load of logs and run around and around and
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Speaker 1: around the house until she literally drops dead listen.
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Speaker 7: To punish her, According to investigators, Joyce Gerard began making
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Speaker 7: her grandchild run around the house and this continued, they say,
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Speaker 7: for about three hours, until she collapsed into a seizure.
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Speaker 11: Nine year old Savannah Harden comes home from school and
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Speaker 11: grandmother Joyce Gerard finds out this Savannah ate a candy
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Speaker 11: bar she isn't supposed to eat chocolate. As punishment, Gerard
15:53
Speaker 11: makes Savannah run around the house for hours until Savannah
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Speaker 11: collapses into a seizure. Stepmom Jessica hard And calls nine
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Speaker 11: to one one and Savannah is airlifted the Children's hospital
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Speaker 11: in Birmingham where Savannah dies. Savannah had run the equivalent
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Speaker 11: of a marathon without a drink of water.
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Speaker 12: They are currently being held on murder charges.
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Speaker 1: This is sel any murder on aggravated child abuse.
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Speaker 2: Darn right, it's felony murder.
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Speaker 1: That from our friends at hl N, what is that phenomena?
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Speaker 1: To Lynn Shaw joining me, founder and executive director of
16:28
Speaker 1: Lynn's Warriors, a nonprofit committed to ending torture on young
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Speaker 1: girls and women, Lynn, systematic discipline equals felony murder, Explain
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Speaker 1: what this phenomena is.
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Speaker 13: What's happening is they're breaking down children's minds. We are seeing,
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Speaker 13: we work with law enforcement, we are seeing increased cases
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Speaker 13: of child abuse that has horrific circumstances around it. And
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Speaker 13: my fear is that children are becoming habituated to it,
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Speaker 13: so they're not reporting it. Society's becoming habituated. It's becoming
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Speaker 13: almost normalized. Where is the outrage from everybody, our precious children.
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Speaker 13: Why aren't we outscreaming about this? We cannot have this.
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Speaker 13: But all I know is this kind of abuse is
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Speaker 13: psychological damage, breaks down children's minds, and I'm so afraid
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Speaker 13: all of this is getting buried underneath what's really going
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Speaker 13: on here, which is just torturous, sadistic abuse and increasing
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Speaker 13: across the United States with children.
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Speaker 1: Karen start joining me forensic psychologists, renowned TV radio trauma expert.
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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen,
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Speaker 1: See Karen. You and I just covered the case of
17:43
Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie and what's so amazing. She was a mommy
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Speaker 1: vlogger and I believe the name of her show was
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Speaker 1: eight Passengers. She had of children. She's in jail now,
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Speaker 1: thank God, in heaven. And she and her cohort, another
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Speaker 1: minion straight out of hell, Jodie Hildebrant, had this mommy
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Speaker 1: vologging where they would actually give advice about basically how
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Speaker 1: to brutalize your children, and they became stars on the Internet,
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Speaker 1: stars doling out this evil advice. And the abuse she
18:29
Speaker 1: heaped on her children finally came to light when one
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Speaker 1: of the little boys, a son, Oh Karen, remember the photos.
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Speaker 1: Let's see the photo of him starved, the bones sticking
18:41
Speaker 1: out of his back. He managed to break loose and
18:45
Speaker 1: run to a nearby house, and then the guy that
18:49
Speaker 1: lived there calls nine one one, and the grown man
18:51
Speaker 1: breaks down in tears over the phone, describing how the
18:57
Speaker 1: little boy has been bound at the risk he's starving.
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Speaker 1: And Karen Stark, millions of people were listening to her advice,
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Speaker 1: and finally somebody says, this is cray, that's child abuse.
19:14
Speaker 1: But it went on for months and month years of
19:17
Speaker 1: her doling out her evil child advice.
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Speaker 14: Unfortunately, Nancy, parents and when you all know this mother's
19:29
Speaker 14: parents are looking for advice all the time. They don't
19:33
Speaker 14: know in a lot of circumstances, what's the best way
19:36
Speaker 14: to raise children. They have to guess. There's no textbook.
19:39
Speaker 14: And these people's sadistic abusers were sort of from you.
19:44
Speaker 2: Put Karen Stark up.
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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, did you actually do you need a textbook
19:50
Speaker 1: to tell you?
19:51
Speaker 2: I mean, please tell me you haven't fallen under trade
19:54
Speaker 2: go or spell.
19:56
Speaker 1: Please you need a textbook to say, don't make your
19:59
Speaker 1: eight year old little girl jump in one hundred and
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Speaker 1: ten degrees scorching hate for hours on end without water
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Speaker 1: until she dies. Do I need to read a self help.
20:08
Speaker 2: Book for that?
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Speaker 14: Well, but that's what it was coming across, as Nancy.
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Speaker 14: It's important to understand that she was promoting it as
20:17
Speaker 14: self help and actually it was sadistic abuse, but that's
20:22
Speaker 14: not how she was coming across, and nobody understood that
20:25
Speaker 14: until later on when this little boy fortunately escaped. You
20:29
Speaker 14: have to take a look at this punishment, which was
20:32
Speaker 14: really abusive. She called it, you know, punishment, but it
20:36
Speaker 14: was control, breaking down the will of the children, actually
20:41
Speaker 14: dehumanizing them, and that happens in these kinds of situations.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Tom Green joining me, former
21:00
Speaker 1: Chief Deputy Washoe County now PI, owner of Nevada Investigative Services,
21:07
Speaker 1: Tom Green looks can be very deceiving because when I
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Speaker 1: just saw a picture of that sweet little girl and
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Speaker 1: her sister, you'd think everything was perfectly fine, right, same
21:21
Speaker 1: thing with the turpens.
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Speaker 2: Be asked, Tom Green.
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Speaker 5: Absolutely, And you know, the other thing that we know
21:27
Speaker 5: in law enforcement is that child abuse happens in secret.
21:31
Speaker 5: And if I recall correctly, this happened during COVID. So
21:36
Speaker 5: not only does child abas happen in secret, but during COVID,
21:41
Speaker 5: children were restricted from being around other adults, being around
21:44
Speaker 5: the children, being in public venues, being at school, So
21:48
Speaker 5: the chances for eyes to be on them was reduced greatly.
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Speaker 2: Denying her water. Back to Karen start and joining me.
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Speaker 1: Renowned psychologist reminds me again of the even mistress of Satan.
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Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie now where she needs to be in the
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Speaker 1: pen the Big Dollhouse. Karen Stark, I want you to listen.
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Speaker 1: She actually posted this. It's like the Emperor's Clothes. Nobody
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Speaker 1: wanted to say she's abusing her children, and she's blogging
22:18
Speaker 1: about it. Here she describes how she wanted to punish
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Speaker 1: her little girl, tiny little girl, like first grade ish,
22:28
Speaker 1: because the little girl didn't make her own lunch that
22:32
Speaker 1: morning and take it to school. The teacher calls and says, hey,
22:36
Speaker 1: she's hungry, and Ruby Frankie was just totally fine with that.
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Speaker 2: Listen to this, Karen Stark.
22:42
Speaker 1: Nine, I'm on the address of your emergency, okay, and
22:45
Speaker 1: the phone numberer calling from tell me exactly what's happened.
22:49
Speaker 6: I just had a twelve year old boy sew up
22:52
Speaker 6: here at my front door asking for help, and he's
22:56
Speaker 6: a said he had just came from a neighbor's house,
22:59
Speaker 6: and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house.
23:02
Speaker 6: He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry,
23:07
Speaker 6: and he's thirsty.
23:09
Speaker 1: So back to Kenneth Trey Gober, the enforced exercise, the
23:14
Speaker 1: denial of water, it's a form of child abuse. So
23:19
Speaker 1: your earlier argument, which I respect, I disagree with it,
23:23
Speaker 1: but I respect it might carry the day on a
23:28
Speaker 1: mensrea malice murder, planning a forethought intent to commit the crime,
23:34
Speaker 1: even though they forced her to jump for hours and
23:37
Speaker 1: hours and hours. But what about felony murder, which means simply,
23:44
Speaker 1: as you know, a death occurs in the commission of
23:47
Speaker 1: a felony, with the underlying felony being child abuse. They're
23:53
Speaker 1: abusing her an eight year old girl and one hundred
23:57
Speaker 1: and ten degrees scorching Texas, he a trampoline, hours and
24:02
Speaker 1: hours punishment for asking for water.
24:05
Speaker 2: That's child abuse, and.
24:07
Speaker 1: A death occurred, whether they meant for it to occur
24:10
Speaker 1: or not. How would you escape fail any murder charges.
24:15
Speaker 8: These underlying facts? Was there water, was there not water?
24:18
Speaker 8: How much water was there?
24:19
Speaker 15: Was there?
24:20
Speaker 8: Food was or not food. There's a lot of conflicting
24:22
Speaker 8: information on that, and the jury ultimately has to decide it.
24:25
Speaker 8: But you're absolutely right there was a death. It's unfortunate,
24:29
Speaker 8: it should not have happened. And so the defense on
24:31
Speaker 8: this case isn't for the defendants to get off scott free.
24:35
Speaker 8: It's to say, hey, this is criminally negligent homicide. This
24:38
Speaker 8: was an abuse, this was neglect on the part of
24:41
Speaker 8: appearents the guardians in this case. And so that's the
24:44
Speaker 8: defense on it, and it's trying to show those facts.
24:48
Speaker 8: It's showing the facts that when Daniel, the adoptive father,
24:52
Speaker 8: the guardian found the little girl's body, that he sprayed
24:56
Speaker 8: cold water on her body to try to bring her
24:58
Speaker 8: tempt down.
24:59
Speaker 1: That's a light and a dollar short. He'll spray cold
25:05
Speaker 1: water on her body, he's probably already dead, but he
25:08
Speaker 1: wouldn't let her have a sip of water.
25:12
Speaker 2: See the dichotomy, the harsh dichotomy.
25:15
Speaker 8: The difference though, is wait water on her.
25:18
Speaker 1: Gober to save his own skin to revive her. So
25:22
Speaker 1: maybe she wouldn't die. But when she's out there begging
25:25
Speaker 1: for water and begging to come into the ac where
25:27
Speaker 1: they are, that's a big n.
25:31
Speaker 8: If the prosecution's argument is that he wanted her to die,
25:35
Speaker 8: why would he go to any effort to try to
25:36
Speaker 8: revive her. That's that's the point. That's not what was
25:40
Speaker 8: going on in his head. Will be the argument of them.
25:43
Speaker 10: She laid there on that tramplie for at least an
25:46
Speaker 10: hour and a half to two hours before anybody ever
25:49
Speaker 10: even found her.
25:51
Speaker 2: WKYTTV.
25:58
Speaker 3: Jalen Schwartz has been jumping on the trampoline in her
26:00
Speaker 3: backyard for well over three hours now, and there seems
26:04
Speaker 3: to be no end in sight, the temperature on the
26:06
Speaker 3: trampoline peeking at a whopping one hundred and ten degrees.
26:10
Speaker 3: Her adoptive parents have denied her water and food and
26:13
Speaker 3: demanded she continue jumping until she is told to stop. Exhausted,
26:17
Speaker 3: the little girl passes out.
26:20
Speaker 1: What more do we know?
26:23
Speaker 2: Will this rise to a murder case? Listen?
26:26
Speaker 11: Daniel chores finds Jalen unresponsive on the trampoline and brings
26:30
Speaker 11: her in the house. Schwartz claims Jalen is wheezing and
26:33
Speaker 11: they strip her down a spray with water to cool
26:35
Speaker 11: her down. Daniel begins doing CPR after they realize Jalen
26:39
Speaker 11: no longer has a pulse, and Ashley says she calls
26:42
Speaker 11: nine one one immediately.
26:44
Speaker 15: She was unresponsive. She was having seizures, which is what
26:47
Speaker 15: happens when you're out in the king too much. But
26:49
Speaker 15: she was unresponsive and then they rushed her to a
26:52
Speaker 15: hospital which wasn't too far away.
26:55
Speaker 1: I bet that Kenneth Trey Gaber trial attorney really hates
27:01
Speaker 1: it when the forensic evidence disproves what his clients try
27:06
Speaker 1: to say at the time. Don't you just hate it, Trey,
27:11
Speaker 1: when your clients speak to police when they arrive and
27:14
Speaker 1: then you're stuck with their statements.
27:18
Speaker 8: Well, it is good advice to not talk to the
27:20
Speaker 8: police if you've committed a.
27:22
Speaker 1: Crime, Trey Gobert, I'm sure you're familiar by now with
27:26
Speaker 1: all the cases you've tried with rigor mortis.
27:30
Speaker 2: Listen.
27:31
Speaker 12: Police and fire personnel are called to the Schwarz home
27:34
Speaker 12: shortly before two pm about an unresponsive child. Upon arrival,
27:38
Speaker 12: they determine Jalen is deceased and is already showing signs
27:41
Speaker 12: of rigor mortis. The scene and condition of Jalen's body
27:44
Speaker 12: does not match up with the timeline. Daniel and Ashley
27:47
Speaker 12: Schwarz are giving police to account for the death of
27:49
Speaker 12: a seemingly healthy child.
27:51
Speaker 1: While Kenneth Trey giber Is hurriedly trying to fabricate an
27:57
Speaker 1: explanation as to why this eight year little girl was
28:01
Speaker 1: already in full throws of rigor. Straight out to doctor
28:05
Speaker 1: Eric Eson, renowned board certified forensic pathologist A You can
28:10
Speaker 1: find him on Facebook at Eric august Eon doctor Eason.
28:15
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being with us.
28:17
Speaker 1: Now you hear what the parents are saying, the adoptive parents.
28:23
Speaker 1: They're claiming that Jalen started wheezing, that they strip her down,
28:27
Speaker 1: a spray her with water to cool her down, start
28:30
Speaker 1: doing CPR, and call nine to one one immediately.
28:36
Speaker 2: So how is it nine on one?
28:38
Speaker 1: EMTs get there in a matter of minutes, but she's
28:42
Speaker 1: already in rigor. Rigor mortis the stiffening of the limbs.
28:48
Speaker 2: It's like a two by four.
28:50
Speaker 1: You can't bend them no matter how hard you try.
28:53
Speaker 1: What is rigor?
28:55
Speaker 2: Doctor Eson?
28:56
Speaker 1: Does temperatures have anything to do with it setting in?
28:59
Speaker 1: And how how long does it take to go into rigor?
29:02
Speaker 16: Yes, exactly so. Temperature. Rigor, first of all, is stiffening
29:05
Speaker 16: of the muscles after death. It has to do with
29:08
Speaker 16: depletion of this chemical and muscle called ATP that we
29:11
Speaker 16: learn about in biology class in college. In high school.
29:14
Speaker 16: But anyway, temperature has a lot of an effect on
29:18
Speaker 16: rigor mortis. So if you die in an environment that
29:21
Speaker 16: is warm in the surrounding area, or if you're engaging
29:24
Speaker 16: in a lot of physical activity when your death occurs,
29:27
Speaker 16: the rigor is going to come on a whole lot
29:29
Speaker 16: quicker than if you die in a cooler environment, or
29:31
Speaker 16: if you die from like a natural death, just kind
29:33
Speaker 16: of laying in bed. So somebody who is having a
29:35
Speaker 16: seizure when they die, or they are engaged in a
29:38
Speaker 16: fight or something like that, when the death occurs, the
29:41
Speaker 16: rigor mortis is going to come on a whole lot quicker.
29:43
Speaker 16: It's going to be a lot stronger, and then it's
29:45
Speaker 16: going to take a much shorter time to start to
29:47
Speaker 16: go away, because with everyone, once rigor happens, it reaches
29:50
Speaker 16: a maximum point of a stiffness and then it'll slowly
29:54
Speaker 16: or it'll disappear after time.
29:56
Speaker 1: Okay, that really wasn't an answer, but I guess I
29:59
Speaker 1: mean to give you, doctor ry Esen, some more facts.
30:03
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it wasn't informative.
30:04
Speaker 5: It was she was in rigor.
30:05
Speaker 16: She was If she was in rigor, she was dead.
30:10
Speaker 16: I think you said when they called nine one one,
30:11
Speaker 16: they said, we know that, well.
30:13
Speaker 1: We know that if you're in rigor mortis and your
30:16
Speaker 1: limbs of stiffing up like to you by four's, you're dead.
30:20
Speaker 16: We know that.
30:21
Speaker 1: I'm trying to disprove their lie that they said to
30:25
Speaker 1: cops that now Kenneth Trey go over stuck with their
30:28
Speaker 1: statement that hey, we just realized she was wheezing, and
30:32
Speaker 1: we brought her in. We sprayed her down with cold water,
30:35
Speaker 1: and then we called you. It couldn't have happened the way.
30:38
Speaker 2: But let me give you some more data. Okay, listen
30:40
Speaker 2: to this.
30:41
Speaker 11: Investigators creating a timeline of events for the day, according
30:44
Speaker 11: to Ashley and Daniel Shores, is such that at one PM,
30:48
Speaker 11: Jalen is on the trampoline, At one fifteen pm, she's
30:51
Speaker 11: playing with the family dogs, and at one thirty pm,
30:55
Speaker 11: when Daniel Schwares takes out the trash, he finds her
30:58
Speaker 11: unresponsive and rushes her in the house. The first officer
31:02
Speaker 11: is dispatched to the house around one forty five pm,
31:04
Speaker 11: and Jalen is pronounced dead bi paramedics at one fifty
31:08
Speaker 11: five pm.
31:09
Speaker 1: So, based on the Schwartz's statements, can we determine are
31:16
Speaker 1: they telling the truth? Okay, what more do we know
31:20
Speaker 1: about the timing?
31:21
Speaker 17: Listen when first responders robbed on scene, that riga mortis
31:30
Speaker 17: had already set into.
31:31
Speaker 3: Her body, according to a forensic pathologist, along with Jalen
31:35
Speaker 3: already presenting with rigamortis and lividity. Pictures taken at the
31:39
Speaker 3: scene showed Jalen suffered sunburn after death. There were signs
31:43
Speaker 3: of skin slippage, and she was already starting to decompose
31:46
Speaker 3: when she was declared dead ten minutes after police are
31:50
Speaker 3: dispatched to her home.
31:52
Speaker 1: Just hearing them describe eight year old jail in that way,
31:55
Speaker 1: I know it's true.
31:58
Speaker 2: It just makes my stomach hurt.
32:00
Speaker 1: Now you are hearing some sound from our friends at WKYTTV.
32:05
Speaker 1: Let's analyze what we just heard. Lin Shaw is joining me,
32:10
Speaker 1: executive director Lynn's Warriors. Lynn, Let's analyze this. According to
32:19
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist, Jeling eight years old, just turned eight,
32:25
Speaker 1: by the way, already presenting rigor and lividity. Lividity, as
32:32
Speaker 1: you know, is when the blood in your body settles
32:37
Speaker 1: to the lowest common point. Just think about shaking a
32:43
Speaker 1: jug of let's just say chocolate, milk, and then the
32:48
Speaker 1: milk on the side starts settling down. That's what happens
32:52
Speaker 1: to the blood in the body when you die and
32:56
Speaker 1: your heart is no longer pumping. Let's just say you're
32:58
Speaker 1: lying on your back, all the blood in your body
33:01
Speaker 1: settles down to the back of your head, neck, back, buttocks,
33:05
Speaker 1: in the back of your legs. It goes down as
33:09
Speaker 1: it should according to the laws of gravity. So when
33:11
Speaker 1: EMTs get there, when listen to this, rigor was in
33:18
Speaker 1: lividity had started. I don't know how they determine this.
33:22
Speaker 1: I guess doctor Easen can tell me Gallen suffered sunburn
33:27
Speaker 1: after death, which tells me she laid outside in the
33:32
Speaker 1: sun for a period of time long enough to get sunburned.
33:35
Speaker 1: And there was skin slippage and the beginning signs of decomposition,
33:44
Speaker 1: and all this was evident ten minutes after police were dispatched.
33:51
Speaker 1: They were dispatched, as we heard earlier, at one forty five.
33:56
Speaker 1: They got there and pronounced her debt at one fifty five,
33:59
Speaker 1: and this child Linshaw was already having skin slippage. I mean,
34:07
Speaker 1: if you're gonna have the death penalty, if and I'm
34:11
Speaker 1: not gonna argue pro or con right. Now, that's not
34:14
Speaker 1: my issue. Right now, this would be a great case
34:17
Speaker 1: for it. Skin slippage on an eight year old little
34:21
Speaker 1: girl who apparently lays out in the yard one hundred
34:25
Speaker 1: and ten degrees fahrenheit and gets sunburned post mortem, Lynnshaw.
34:32
Speaker 13: First of all, let's start with not referring to these
34:36
Speaker 13: monsters as parents, adoptive parents, whatever they are. Second of all,
34:42
Speaker 13: i'd i'll argue the death penalty for you, Nancy. Anybody
34:46
Speaker 13: who does anything to a child, I am sorry, and
34:49
Speaker 13: our Warriors book same is done to you. I am sorry.
34:53
Speaker 13: That's the way we feel about that. And I want
34:55
Speaker 13: to remind everybody. I'm here in New York City. The
34:58
Speaker 13: minute it hits eighty five degrees, they recommend keep your
35:02
Speaker 13: children indoors, keep your children in air conditioning, keep your
35:05
Speaker 13: children hydrated. If you don't have an air conditioner, go
35:08
Speaker 13: to one of our cooling centers. Does everybody hear what
35:11
Speaker 13: we're talking about? Children jumping on trampolines in one hundred
35:14
Speaker 13: and ten, maybe one hundred and fifty. This is what
35:16
Speaker 13: we're arguing about. No, no, no, these are monsters, and
35:20
Speaker 13: that her body by the medical professionals. Now I'm not
35:23
Speaker 13: a doctor and I'm not a lawyer. What they did
35:25
Speaker 13: to this child child abuse, and I want to hear
35:28
Speaker 13: from her sister. I'm worried about her sister because this
35:30
Speaker 13: isn't their first time that they pulled things like this. Outrage.
35:33
Speaker 13: We should all be outraged.
35:35
Speaker 1: Unacceptable crime stories with Nancy Grace dodgor airy Ason skin slippage.
35:50
Speaker 1: By the time amts had gotten there in the ten
35:53
Speaker 1: minutes since the parents called, she had.
35:57
Speaker 16: Been dead for a while in extreme heat. That's why
36:00
Speaker 16: that skin slippage is occurring. By the time that you
36:03
Speaker 16: saw it on.
36:03
Speaker 2: Her, Yes, what is skin slippage? How long do you
36:07
Speaker 2: give it? What does it mean?
36:10
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a shocking fact, but I've got to
36:12
Speaker 1: turn that into something probative or not probative. Does it
36:16
Speaker 1: prove anything for me?
36:18
Speaker 16: It's a post mortem change, and so when death occurs,
36:20
Speaker 16: the skin will just start to peel itself off of
36:23
Speaker 16: the body, and heat can accelerate it and it will
36:26
Speaker 16: happen a whole lot quicker. But it's just one of
36:27
Speaker 16: the post mortem changes that occurs, same thing as rigor
36:30
Speaker 16: and lividity. Skin slippage is part of that.
36:33
Speaker 2: You mean your skin starts coming off your body.
36:35
Speaker 5: That's right.
36:36
Speaker 1: What could they possibly mean, doctor Ason, that d comp
36:39
Speaker 1: had already started.
36:42
Speaker 16: She probably started having the skin discoloration that you typically
36:46
Speaker 16: see with decomposition. It's called marbling, and that's where bacteria
36:50
Speaker 16: starts to grow inside the body and we'll start to
36:52
Speaker 16: forming the veins and causes purple green discoloration in the skin.
36:58
Speaker 16: That combined with the skin slippage, it's probably what they
37:00
Speaker 16: were talking about.
37:01
Speaker 15: It is hot in the summer. It's Western Texas, and
37:05
Speaker 15: you know, not only does it get hot, but then
37:07
Speaker 15: you know, above the average temperature, sometimes you get some
37:09
Speaker 15: called a heat index where it just feels hotter. We
37:12
Speaker 15: have something called the humidity, and it makes the temperature
37:15
Speaker 15: feel even warmer. But also it depends on what you're around.
37:18
Speaker 15: If you're around things that radiate heat too, it just
37:21
Speaker 15: makes it hotter. So we're not always not just talking
37:23
Speaker 15: about the Texas heat here. We're talking about you know,
37:27
Speaker 15: it could be upwards of one hundred and ten.
38:04
Speaker 1: You know how many times I've driven around the minivan
38:07
Speaker 1: with the twins singing let it Go from Frozen That
38:12
Speaker 1: was Jellen and her sister singing let it Go In
38:16
Speaker 1: the back of the car.
38:19
Speaker 2: Jellen is dead.
38:22
Speaker 1: From being forced to jump on a scorching hot trampoline
38:26
Speaker 1: for hours on end as punishment exercise, denying food. There's
38:36
Speaker 1: so many ways to abuse a little child. It was
38:41
Speaker 1: never more evident than in the case of little Corey.
38:47
Speaker 1: Look at video evidence that we obtained. It was used
38:51
Speaker 1: in court of her, his father, straight from Hades, forcing
38:58
Speaker 1: the little boy six years old. This is Christopher Gregor
39:03
Speaker 1: forcing the little boy to run and run, forcing him
39:08
Speaker 1: back on accelerating the treadmill. At certain points, he would
39:15
Speaker 1: pick the boy up and hold him over the treadmill
39:19
Speaker 1: till his feet could start running again. In one moment,
39:24
Speaker 1: he actually bites the little boy on the head. Needless
39:29
Speaker 1: to say, Corey dies after suffering seizures from his quote
39:40
Speaker 1: workout with Dad. Erica Miller joining me from k M
39:47
Speaker 1: I D Big two News. Isn't it true that Jalen
39:52
Speaker 1: went into seizures before she died?
39:55
Speaker 5: She did.
39:56
Speaker 17: In court.
39:57
Speaker 4: The mom tried to describe it as a she was
40:00
Speaker 4: playing with the dog, but the prosecuting attorneys said that
40:04
Speaker 4: it was more like and and I believe the medical
40:06
Speaker 4: examiners as well, that it was more likely that she
40:09
Speaker 4: was having seizures, was delirious and was not in fact
40:12
Speaker 4: playing with the dogs, but was lying on the ground
40:16
Speaker 4: actively dying when they assumed she was playing with the dogs.
40:20
Speaker 1: Who are these people, Eric Kameller? Why did they even
40:25
Speaker 1: take Jaalen and her sister if all they wanted to
40:29
Speaker 1: do is torture them? What were the other forms of
40:32
Speaker 1: abuse on the girls?
40:34
Speaker 16: Sure, Nancy.
40:36
Speaker 4: They shaved their heads for a punishment because they had
40:41
Speaker 4: allegedly been bullying they. I know that on Thursday, before
40:46
Speaker 4: Jalen died, the girls were hit with two by fours
40:51
Speaker 4: to the point that it left bruising. They were described
40:54
Speaker 4: as paddles, but they were two by fours. They were
40:56
Speaker 4: disciplined again on that Friday, but the little the youngest Jade,
41:02
Speaker 4: I can't remember her name, but the youngest daughter. When Jade,
41:07
Speaker 4: she told police that she stayed inside because she needed
41:12
Speaker 4: to write lines. She was having one form of punishment,
41:15
Speaker 4: and Ashley said, well, no, she wasn't.
41:18
Speaker 2: They weren't being punishment.
41:19
Speaker 4: She just thought she was. But that's so telling, I
41:22
Speaker 4: believe because she these kids just were always suffering some
41:27
Speaker 4: form of punishment or another. That's not normal. I have
41:30
Speaker 4: three children It is not normal to have to punish
41:33
Speaker 4: children day in and day out.
41:35
Speaker 16: It just is that's not normal.
41:37
Speaker 2: That is abuse.
41:38
Speaker 1: Karen start joining me, renowned psychologist, Karen, I'm just a
41:42
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. What is that when a person enjoys inflicting
41:48
Speaker 1: so much pain on someone weaker or less cunning than
41:53
Speaker 1: they are, such as a child.
41:56
Speaker 14: That's somebody Nancy who really is sedition, sick and has
42:01
Speaker 14: absolutely no empathy. So they're calling it punishment, but we
42:06
Speaker 14: know it's domination and control, and they are really enjoying it.
42:11
Speaker 14: These children aren't real to them. These children are dolls.
42:14
Speaker 14: They could be anything. They could be the board that
42:18
Speaker 14: they hit them with, because they are not seeing them
42:20
Speaker 14: as human beings. They've been dehumanized, and they are capable
42:26
Speaker 14: of actually enjoying that kind of punishment and increasing it
42:32
Speaker 14: until the point where a child dies.
42:35
Speaker 2: To Tray gober.
42:39
Speaker 1: Veteran trial lawyer, partner of Lee Gobert and Rayna, they're
42:43
Speaker 1: in Texas.
42:45
Speaker 2: You know, Try, I've been giving you a.
42:46
Speaker 1: Hard time, but I really don't envy what you have
42:51
Speaker 1: to do sometimes to represent people. They're not just killers,
42:57
Speaker 1: They're sadistic killers that enjoy hurting inflicting pain on somebody else.
43:04
Speaker 2: Yet you believe in our.
43:06
Speaker 1: Constitutions so strongly you go into court and fight for them.
43:12
Speaker 1: It's enough to make me want to drink. And I'm
43:13
Speaker 1: a teetotaler. Trey.
43:17
Speaker 8: Yeah, some cases are much more difficult than others, especially
43:20
Speaker 8: cases that involve children, Nancy. All lawyers will tell you
43:25
Speaker 8: that at the end of the day, by protecting the
43:29
Speaker 8: rights of the worst of us, we protect the rights
43:32
Speaker 8: of the best of us under the constitutional And that's
43:35
Speaker 8: something that as lawyers we all swear of to do
43:38
Speaker 8: every day. All these facts, all this bad stuff, all
43:41
Speaker 8: the tragedy that occurs, it's something we wish simply wouldn't happen.
43:48
Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, the prosecution has
43:50
Speaker 8: the burden, and somebody has to take on the job
43:53
Speaker 8: to make sure that the state carries its burden.
43:57
Speaker 1: Somebody has to and I guess that's somebody. It would
44:00
Speaker 1: be you, Trey. With all of your good grades in
44:03
Speaker 1: law school and all of.
44:05
Speaker 2: Your experience in the courtroom.
44:07
Speaker 1: Man, I'd go just be a greater at Costco before
44:10
Speaker 1: I would represent these two.
44:12
Speaker 2: But hey, that's just me. Tom Green.
44:14
Speaker 1: Do you ever get just weary or exhausted investigating cases
44:20
Speaker 1: like this, a little eight year old girl with skin slippage.
44:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, these cases are accumulative for investigators. They
44:28
Speaker 5: really are. I can remember back in nineteen ninety two
44:33
Speaker 5: when I was hired at the Sheriff's office. We had
44:36
Speaker 5: three sadistic child killers in the jail, and I worked
44:40
Speaker 5: in the unit, and they were in I had to
44:41
Speaker 5: feed them and supervise them and keep them safe from
44:44
Speaker 5: other inmates, And just knowing what they had done takes
44:48
Speaker 5: a toll on your soul. And when you have to
44:50
Speaker 5: attend an autopsy or when you have to tell other
44:55
Speaker 5: loved ones about what happened to a child at the
44:57
Speaker 5: hand of another, lasting impression on you. It does.
45:02
Speaker 1: These two will end up doing a long time behind bars.
45:06
Speaker 1: But is it ever enough? We stop now and remember
45:12
Speaker 1: an American hero, Corporal David Jones, Benton County Sheriff's Missouri,
45:16
Speaker 1: passed away in the line of duty after forty five
45:19
Speaker 1: years with Ellie, survived by wife turned widow, Josie, children Allison, Lindsey, Crystal, Troy, Travis,
45:29
Speaker 1: and seventeen grands. American hero Corporal David Jones Nancy Grace
45:36
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friends,