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What Renovation TV Gets Wrong with Mina Starsiak Hawk · Own It with Angie Hicks

• 0:00
  - No one's ever gonna care as much as you,
• 0:01
  and I think that applies to home ownership,
• 0:03
  to running your own company, whatever you care about,
• 0:05
  it's your thing when it's your asset
• 0:07
  that you wanna protect, you care more,
• 0:09
  so you're gonna take the extra time
• 0:11
  is a lesson I learn over and over again.
• 0:13
  (dramatic whooshing)
• 0:14
  - Mina Starsiak Hawk bought her first house
• 0:16
  right out of college.
• 0:18
  No job, no experience,
• 0:20
  but maybe a little help from her mom to co-sign.
• 0:23
  She figured the rest out as she went.
• 0:25
  After 100 houses and nine seasons of "Good Bones,"
• 0:29
  she still says the most important thing
• 0:31
  she knows about renovation is what can go wrong.
• 0:35
  I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie, and this is "Own It,"
• 0:38
  and on this show, we talk about what it really takes
• 0:41
  to own your home without it owning you.
• 0:43
  Today, I'm in the "Own It" studio with Mina,
• 0:46
  and we're talking about
• 0:47
  why your renovation budget is probably wrong,
• 0:50
  what to actually look for in a home inspection
• 0:52
  and why there's always a reason
• 0:54
  why the lowest bid is the lowest bid.
• 0:57
  Here's my conversation with Mina Starsiak Hawk.
• 1:01
  Mina, welcome, it's so great to have you in the studio.
• 1:04
  When you graduated from college,
• 1:06
  you didn't know what you wanted to do,
• 1:08
  like most young people, right?
• 1:10
  But you bought a house, so that seems kinda crazy. (laughs)
• 1:12
  - You say, "Like most young people,"
• 1:14
  but I graduated at a time
• 1:16
  where, like, a Kelly School of Business degree,
• 1:17
  you automatically had a job,
• 1:19
  you were an accountant, you were, like, whatever,
• 1:20
  you were in finance, and so, a lot of my friends
• 1:22
  did know exactly what they were doing,
• 1:24
  whether they wanted to do it or not,
• 1:26
  and so, I felt very flail-y and non-adult-y
• 1:29
  'cause I didn't have a job lined up,
• 1:31
  so the other thing adults do is they buy homes,
• 1:34
  so I had worked for my landlord for all of college
• 1:38
  and got a little bit of the lay of the land,
• 1:40
  I was like, "This is smart,
• 1:41
  I'll buy a home, I'll get some roommates..."
• 1:43
  - Working the college rental business, yes. (laughs)
• 1:45
  - Yes, and obviously not employed
• 1:48
  so my mom co-signed for me,
• 1:50
  but yeah, bought a house right out of college.
• 1:51
  - You did a lot of your work
• 1:52
  on the near-southeast side of Indianapolis,
• 1:55
  what made that area special to you?
• 1:57
  - At the beginning, nothing,
• 1:59
  but when my mom went into private practice,
• 2:02
  she wanted to be able to walk to the city county building,
• 2:05
  and that area, Fountain Square at the time
• 2:08
  in 2007, 2008, 2009,
• 2:11
  you could buy a two-bedroom, one-bath,
• 2:14
  maybe, like, a little termite damage here and there,
• 2:16
  but perfectly fine home for $50,000,
• 2:18
  and she bought a little house there to make her home office
• 2:21
  and that's kinda how we landed in the neighborhood,
• 2:23
  and then, really kinda fell in love with it from there.
• 2:27
  - You didn't have enough money,
• 2:28
  you were kind of walking into this house and you're like,
• 2:30
  "Now, I'm an adult, now, what do I do with it?"
• 2:33
  - For my whole life, I don't know
• 2:34
  if it's a good thing or bad thing or maybe both,
• 2:36
  but I just assume I can figure stuff out,
• 2:39
  and sometimes, I don't and it's very messy,
• 2:41
  but it really wasn't an active thought process,
• 2:44
  it was like, "I'm gonna get this house,
• 2:45
  we're gonna renovate it, I'm gonna get roommates,"
• 2:48
  and I didn't think much more about it other than that.
• 2:51
  I got a construction loan,
• 2:53
  but it wasn't near enough to do the work,
• 2:55
  so I think my mom and I are both kinda that way,
• 2:57
  we're like, "Okay, well, we're not dummies,
• 3:00
  we'll read instructions and we'll figure out how to do it,"
• 3:03
  which works to a certain extent,
• 3:05
  and then, you know, a lot of experience and help, so...
• 3:07
  - As a young person, did you aspire
• 3:09
  to do construction-type work?
• 3:12
  I mean, did you aspire...
• 3:13
  Have an interest? Was it a hobby to you?
• 3:15
  - I don't...
• 3:16
  - Like, 'cause sometimes, it can seem pretty daunting.
• 3:17
  - Yeah, I would've never thought about it
• 3:19
  had I not ended up with the show
• 3:21
  and been asked the question so many times, pre-college, no,
• 3:25
  but when I started working for my landlord and I got to...
• 3:30
  I was gonna say work with,
• 3:31
  but it was more deal with the tenants
• 3:32
  and do, like, move-in and move-out inspections,
• 3:35
  and he had really old houses at this time,
• 3:37
  so seeing all the fixes and the work and the potential,
• 3:41
  and he let me take a wall down
• 3:43
  in my very first rental, I think,
• 3:44
  'cause I couldn't make it any worse,
• 3:47
  and I think that was really what kind of got me interested
• 3:50
  in the real estate market
• 3:51
  and seeing that you could take something
• 3:54
  that doesn't have a lot of perceived value
• 3:57
  and make a couple tweaks and...
• 3:59
  Spending very little money and give it more value,
• 4:01
  and that, I think was kind of, like, an "aha" moment for me
• 4:04
  where I kind of fell in love with that.
• 4:06
  - Yeah, so you say he let you take a wall down,
• 4:08
  I like your hesitation in that because I think sometimes,
• 4:11
  people think that taking a wall down is not a big deal,
• 4:14
  but it actually...
• 4:16
  It is, right?
• 4:16
  - Well, this was not a structural wall, luckily.
• 4:17
  - Okay, but you don't always know
• 4:18
  if you're a novice. (laughs)
• 4:20
  - Yeah, we don't, so there were seven of us,
• 4:21
  but the house used to be split,
• 4:23
  so first floor and second floor,
• 4:24
  and what they had closed in, I think,
• 4:26
  was this original, really turns out, staircase,
• 4:30
  but again, it was two doorways so we didn't really know
• 4:32
  and he was like, "Yeah, take the exterior down,
• 4:35
  see what's underneath, we'll go from there,"
• 4:37
  and I do remember one of my roommate's boyfriends was there
• 4:41
  while I was taking it down and I'm on a ladder,
• 4:44
  like, just swinging away with a hammer,
• 4:46
  and, like, in, you know, like, a "Looney Tunes" cartoon,
• 4:50
  flew out of my hand
• 4:51
  and, like, right by my friend's boyfriend's head,
• 4:54
  and I was like, "Okay, slow down, pay attention more,"
• 4:57
  but got the wall down,
• 4:58
  exposed this beautiful original wood staircase,
• 5:00
  and no one died and the house didn't fall down,
• 5:03
  so it was a good first stab at it.
• 5:05
  - (laughs) That's great.
• 5:08
  So, you know, you said you watched YouTube videos,
• 5:10
  that was, like, a common source of truth for you
• 5:13
  and product instructions to renovate,
• 5:16
  what did getting it wrong teach you
• 5:18
  that you couldn't learn anywhere else?
• 5:20
  - I think it's like anything,
• 5:23
  you can tell someone how to do something
• 5:25
  or, like, how to avoid problems or be safe
• 5:28
  and you're just gonna learn on your own
• 5:31
  because that's how we are as humans,
• 5:33
  but I was just doing the four-by-four white ceramic,
• 5:36
  two-cents-a-square, you know, Menards tile,
• 5:40
  and I got it all up and I grouted it, and I was so proud
• 5:43
  because I though my grout lines were great
• 5:45
  and I pulled my mom in to show her
• 5:46
  with a work light and she's like,
• 5:48
  "Oh, my God, it looks great!"
• 5:49
  And then, is looking at it and kinda cocking her head like,
• 5:52
  "I can't tell what's happening.
• 5:54
  Is there a weird shadow on the wall?"
• 5:56
  And she's, like, moving her hands,
• 5:57
  and I didn't pay attention
• 5:59
  and I bought matte and gloss white,
• 6:02
  so there was a weird chunk of...
• 6:04
  - Well, that's the design you were looking for, right?
• 6:06
  That was your intended look? (laughs)
• 6:08
  - Yes, it was matte and not shiny,
• 6:11
  and I left it and the people that bought it
• 6:13
  I don't think ever mentioned it, so there you go.
• 6:17
  - You've bought and renovated hundreds of houses,
• 6:20
  talk to me about the home inspection
• 6:23
  and the role that it plays in that process for you.
• 6:26
  - It has so much power for so many reasons,
• 6:30
  A, I think it's hugely underrated,
• 6:33
  and for a lot of people, especially during COVID,
• 6:35
  it was a complete throwaway,
• 6:37
  but it has the power to make or break a deal,
• 6:39
  like I said, in so many ways,
• 6:41
  it can be, like, a huge fear tactic for a lot of people
• 6:44
  who aren't educated and don't really know
• 6:48
  how to educate themselves,
• 6:50
  so having a good inspector versus...
• 6:54
  I don't wanna say bad, but lesser-than means everything,
• 7:00
  I've had inspections where the report had pictures on it
• 7:03
  that literally weren't from our house
• 7:05
  and I've also had inspectors walk through with buyers
• 7:08
  and just give very good information, you know,
• 7:11
  "This is new construction, so this is X, Y, Z,
• 7:13
  this is old, so this is how this looks,
• 7:16
  it's not an issue right now, it's something
• 7:18
  that will be a maintenance thing in the future,"
• 7:20
  so those inspectors that really care
• 7:22
  to educate homeowners at the same time,
• 7:25
  I think are really amazing if you can find them.
• 7:27
  - It amazes me when people
• 7:29
  don't go on their own home inspection.
• 7:30
  - Yes.
• 7:31
  - Even if the inspector is just doing their job
• 7:33
  and isn't, like, giving you all these little tips
• 7:35
  along the way, you're just learning things
• 7:37
  following them around.
• 7:38
  - 1,000%, and, like, ChatGPT,
• 7:40
  "What list of questions I should ask my inspector?"
• 7:42
  Like, if something goes wrong, you should know
• 7:45
  where your water shutoff is right now.
• 7:47
  Right now, and if you're not on that inspection
• 7:50
  and you're not in the industry or around the industry,
• 7:52
  why would you ever think to look at that ahead of time?
• 7:55
  Something bursts and you're gonna be running around
• 7:56
  like a chicken with your head cut off
• 7:57
  to get another human there.
• 7:59
  - You're like, "Where is it? Is it in the garage?
• 7:59
  Is it in the basement? Is it...?"
• 8:00
  "Where is it?" (laughs)
• 8:01
  - So just things as simple as that
• 8:04
  have so much power for a homeowner.
• 8:06
  - So don't skip the inspection.
• 8:08
  - Correct, if you wanna go that extra level,
• 8:10
  find a contractor or, you know, an educated friend,
• 8:14
  someone in the industry to walk it with you
• 8:15
  just to help ask questions that you wouldn't think of,
• 8:18
  and any inspector
• 8:20
  that's, I think, comfortable in their position,
• 8:23
  my experience has been they don't mind
• 8:24
  having the extra eyes and ears there,
• 8:26
  they want you to be able to understand
• 8:28
  because when you just get pieces of paper,
• 8:30
  like, 60 pages printed off
• 8:31
  and you don't have the experience of having been in it,
• 8:35
  it's really hard for me to understand still,
• 8:38
  let alone someone who's completely new to it.
• 8:41
  - Some of the houses you've bought over the years,
• 8:43
  they're not livable.
• 8:44
  How do you know which ones have the good bones? (laughs)
• 8:47
  - Well, you know, it's a funny story
• 8:49
  'cause when they decided
• 8:50
  to name the show that, I was furious.
• 8:52
  I thought I was being pranked, honestly, 'cause I was like,
• 8:55
  "This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard,
• 8:57
  none of our houses have good bones.
• 8:59
  They're literally half-floating
• 9:00
  and they have no roofs and, like, the walls are eaten."
• 9:04
  - Maybe good potential?
• 9:05
  - Yes, and I grew to love it, and what we...
• 9:07
  Mom and I, we kind of decided it was the good bones
• 9:10
  of the neighborhood that really supported the builds,
• 9:12
  but while ours often didn't,
• 9:17
  for people either buying a home for themselves
• 9:21
  or buying a home because they think
• 9:22
  they want to take a stab at it,
• 9:24
  that's really the important part
• 9:26
  'cause that's where you're gonna spend the big bucks,
• 9:28
  it's the roof, the structure,
• 9:30
  the foundation, the insulation,
• 9:33
  I had an acquaintance,
• 9:35
  you know, buy a house in Bates Hendricks
• 9:37
  that was "a new renovation," and if you're just listening,
• 9:40
  I'm putting that in air quotes,
• 9:42
  and the first winter, she realized
• 9:44
  there was no insulation in the walls.
• 9:45
  - Not unusual in an old house.
• 9:47
  - Not...
• 9:48
  Well, it was a new renovation...
• 9:49
  - But it was a new renovation, exactly, fair.
• 9:50
  - Yes, so the things that you can't see
• 9:53
  are things also to think about,
• 9:54
  you wouldn't typically be like,
• 9:56
  "Hey, inspector, can we drill a couple holes in spaces
• 9:59
  and, you know, work that into your agreement
• 10:02
  for the inspection that if for some reason,
• 10:04
  it doesn't go through,
• 10:04
  you'll cover the cost of repairs and repaint?"
• 10:06
  Things like that
• 10:07
  that you wouldn't think to ask or to check,
• 10:11
  and it's just the more you personally know
• 10:14
  because no one's gonna advocate for you,
• 10:16
  literally no one, even though you're paying your realtor
• 10:18
  and maybe an inspector too, it's just different.
• 10:20
  - Especially in the older houses, you're like,
• 10:22
  "If I could find hardwood floors
• 10:24
  underneath this carpet or whatever," you know,
• 10:26
  it's like, "Well, pull up a corner of the carpet."
• 10:28
  - Uh-huh. Oh, yeah, around the HVAC ducts...
• 10:31
  - Yeah, exactly.
• 10:32
  - I would frequently do that
• 10:32
  because you can pop that up there
• 10:34
  and it's not gonna mess anything up,
• 10:35
  no one's gonna be any wiser, put the vent back down.
• 10:38
  Nine times out of 10,
• 10:39
  it's just six more layers of linoleum...
• 10:41
  - Right, that's what I was gonna say, it's like...
• 10:43
  - Good place to check.
• 10:44
  (Angie laughing)
• 10:44
  - So if you have dreams of hardwoods,
• 10:46
  are you gonna be installing those
• 10:47
  or are there some there you can refinish? Yeah.
• 10:49
  - Yeah, and I think as long
• 10:50
  as people go into it assuming that...
• 10:53
  Just assume the worst and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
• 10:56
  - Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:57
  - Hopefully.
• 10:58
  - So you need to think about your budget,
• 10:59
  if you're assuming the worst,
• 11:00
  you need to think about your budget
• 11:01
  when you assume the worst.
• 11:02
  - No matter what, a lot of what we would buy,
• 11:04
  I would put offers sight-unseen
• 11:07
  assuming the price I'm offering,
• 11:09
  and this was in 2007, 2008,
• 11:12
  where I could just send $8,000 offers all day long
• 11:15
  and might get countered back at $10,000,
• 11:17
  so I would send these offers assuming
• 11:19
  there's no sewer line, the electrical's crap,
• 11:21
  the foundation's crap, it needs a new roof,
• 11:23
  and I was fine, so if all that happened,
• 11:25
  our budget was still fine,
• 11:26
  and if any of those things magically weren't crap,
• 11:29
  I don't think ever happened, that's just a bonus.
• 11:32
  - When you're using a real estate agent,
• 11:33
  what should you be thinking about?
• 11:35
  What questions do you wish
• 11:37
  they would advocate for the customers?
• 11:40
  - It's tricky, it's a fine line, so I got my license in 2009
• 11:46
  and mostly just did it for myself,
• 11:48
  so I haven't worked with a ton of clients,
• 11:50
  there's definitely a spectrum of what they're going to do
• 11:56
  to serve, you know, their client,
• 11:58
  and I think much like an inspector,
• 12:01
  it's just really important to do your research
• 12:03
  and find one that's gonna work the way that you wanna work.
• 12:06
  I've had buyers that love, like, very aggressive,
• 12:10
  in-your-face, "I'm gonna negotiate hard," kind of realtors
• 12:15
  'cause that's what works for them,
• 12:17
  I'm not that kind, I don't like the dance...
• 12:19
  - You don't like the game.
• 12:20
  - I don't like, "Hey, everyone,
• 12:21
  give me your highest and best," I, like...
• 12:23
  And I know that's a smart tactic.
• 12:25
  I just don't personally love it,
• 12:26
  so figuring out what your vibe is,
• 12:28
  and I know a lot of people
• 12:30
  are probably gonna be mad about this,
• 12:31
  but don't hire the best friend or family member
• 12:34
  that is your realtor because in a best-case scenario,
• 12:38
  it's still a tough relationship.
• 12:39
  You wanna be able to have that friendship
• 12:42
  or family relationship the same as when you went in,
• 12:46
  and I've seen it go not that way more times
• 12:50
  than I've seen it go swimmingly for people,
• 12:52
  so just go, like, one level outside your circle.
• 12:54
  - Right. Right.
• 12:55
  You did "Good Bones" for eight seasons, right?
• 12:58
  Eight seasons?
• 12:59
  - Nine, but the ninth season was five episodes,
• 13:02
  so it was kind of, like, a baby...
• 13:03
  - A mini, it was a mini-season.
• 13:04
  What did it teach you about home ownership
• 13:06
  that a normal homeowner wouldn't know?
• 13:09
  - If you're a first-time homeowner,
• 13:11
  there's so much of a learning curve
• 13:14
  because probably wherever you lived before
• 13:17
  was with your parents, at a rental that's managed by...
• 13:21
  - [Angie] Someone.
• 13:22
  - A company or a person, maybe with a significant other,
• 13:25
  and they probably were more responsible for the home,
• 13:29
  but just how important regular maintenance is,
• 13:33
  and although it's expensive to keep up with it,
• 13:37
  it's far less expensive
• 13:38
  than issues that come with deferred maintenance,
• 13:40
  so super un-sexy HVAC issues,
• 13:42
  like, I go around to our rentals every...
• 13:45
  At the beginning of the season, the end,
• 13:47
  and I clean the AC units
• 13:49
  because where all that gunk gets stuck on the outside,
• 13:52
  as soon as you try to kick it on next season,
• 13:54
  it's not gonna work
• 13:55
  and you or the tenant's not gonna realize
• 13:57
  that it's a problem until you've frozen the unit
• 13:59
  and it's a problem, a big problem.
• 14:01
  There's so much information available now,
• 14:03
  there's no reason not to know,
• 14:05
  "This is what I should be doing monthly,
• 14:06
  every three months, yearly," whatever it looks like,
• 14:11
  and it just saves a whole lot of money in the long run.
• 14:13
  - So what's one renovation myth
• 14:15
  that homeowners still believe
• 14:18
  that simply isn't true anymore?
• 14:19
  - Like, along what lines are we thinking?
• 14:21
  'Cause I'm sure there's a million.
• 14:22
  - So if I see a crack in a wall,
• 14:25
  does that mean I shouldn't buy the house?
• 14:27
  - Maybe.
• 14:28
  The answer's maybe, but I think that's one of those things
• 14:30
  that I think it's really important to have good information,
• 14:33
  either a good inspector or a good contractor
• 14:35
  to walk it with you because a crack in a wall...
• 14:39
  I have a couple at my house,
• 14:40
  my house was built eight years ago,
• 14:42
  there's a certain amount of settling
• 14:43
  that a property is gonna do,
• 14:44
  usually within the first year or two,
• 14:46
  I just haven't fixed my crack, I just left it there,
• 14:49
  but it also could mean that the foundation under it
• 14:53
  is no longer supporting it
• 14:54
  and it's not just a little bit of settling,
• 14:56
  so there are signs that can mean very, very serious things,
• 15:01
  but they also can just mean what's happening to your home
• 15:04
  is what happens with the natural age of a home,
• 15:06
  is that something you can accept or not?
• 15:08
  And I think a lot of people lean new construction
• 15:11
  because they think old homes are more work...
• 15:15
  This is a good myth,
• 15:16
  new construction does not necessarily mean easier and better
• 15:20
  because the materials we have now are just different,
• 15:24
  the wood, the two-by-fours we have now are different trees,
• 15:28
  they are baby trees, it's like taking a twig
• 15:30
  and building a house out of it, so the old lumber,
• 15:33
  I mean, try to drive a nail through the old lumber,
• 15:35
  that's why the nails were six inches long
• 15:37
  and looked more like, I don't know, like, a pickaxe than...
• 15:39
  - A stake, yeah. (laughs)
• 15:40
  - Yeah, a stake than a nail,
• 15:42
  so while there's not necessarily anything wrong
• 15:44
  with new construction,
• 15:46
  knowing what you're getting with both,
• 15:48
  because they both have their own very unique set
• 15:50
  of ongoing maintenance needs.
• 15:52
  - Right, and everything
• 15:54
  could have been built well or not at its time.
• 15:56
  - Yes, correct.
• 15:57
  - So the good myth is that there isn't
• 15:59
  a, "Old houses cost more, new houses don't,"
• 16:01
  there is just literally, "All houses need love."
• 16:04
  - Yes, yep, exactly.
• 16:07
  - (laughs) Awesome.
• 16:08
  What's the single biggest mistake
• 16:10
  you see homeowners make over and over again
• 16:12
  and how can they avoid it?
• 16:14
  - I feel like such a negative Nancy saying this,
• 16:16
  but having rosy-colored glasses about whatever it is,
• 16:20
  the kitchen renovation project,
• 16:21
  the new home they're buying, like, the expectation,
• 16:25
  because I think when we're excited about anything
• 16:27
  like a new puppy, a new baby,
• 16:29
  a new house, a kitchen renovation,
• 16:31
  you think of all these amazing things,
• 16:33
  like how it's gonna go
• 16:34
  and what it's gonna be like in the end
• 16:35
  and, you know, the amazing gatherings
• 16:37
  you're gonna have around the island and the kitchen,
• 16:39
  and when that's the expectation you set for yourself,
• 16:44
  and then, you go through the reality, you really...
• 16:47
  There's nothing but disappointment there. (laughs)
• 16:49
  - You're like, "If you start here, there's nowhere to go..."
• 16:51
  - Yeah, it's life.
• 16:52
  Things go wrong, no one's fault, they just do,
• 16:55
  things take longer, materials get delayed,
• 16:58
  materials get damaged, a contractor has a crisis,
• 17:02
  I feel like that's the industry,
• 17:03
  everyone has such high hopes
• 17:08
  for what they can get done in a certain amount of time,
• 17:10
  and so, yeah, that's probably it.
• 17:12
  - So you probably buffer on both time and money.
• 17:14
  - I always...
• 17:15
  Yes, always add way more time, way more money.
• 17:18
  - And patience, I usually say, "Time, money and patience,"
• 17:20
  those are all the things you need more
• 17:21
  than you think you're gonna need.
• 17:23
  - That is true.
• 17:23
  I think a lot of times people don't realize,
• 17:25
  especially if they're gonna go into a big project,
• 17:28
  just the value of a relationship.
• 17:30
  - 100%.
• 17:31
  - So you might think,
• 17:32
  you're like, "Hey, I got this estimate, it looks good,
• 17:35
  I've seen their work product, I like it,"
• 17:38
  but you might be basically living
• 17:41
  with your contractor for who knows how long,
• 17:44
  six weeks, whatever it is,
• 17:45
  however long the project's gonna take
• 17:47
  and, you know, it's not always gonna be rosy days,
• 17:50
  so kind of determining how you're going to interact
• 17:53
  and how you're gonna get along
• 17:55
  and whether you have a good rapport
• 17:57
  actually can make or break a project.
• 17:59
  - 100%, I think the other lesson that's huge that I...
• 18:03
  No throwing stones
• 18:04
  'cause I am in, like, the most glass house,
• 18:06
  budget's always an issue, it just always is,
• 18:08
  we all want more probably than we can afford,
• 18:10
  we're always trying to stretch the dollar,
• 18:12
  there is always a reason
• 18:14
  for the lowest bid to be the lowest bid,
• 18:16
  and if you are okay,
• 18:17
  usually if you're going for the lowest bid,
• 18:19
  what you are trading is money for your time and patience
• 18:23
  because they might be super low,
• 18:25
  it might be a one or two-man show
• 18:27
  and they're gonna get it done in six months,
• 18:28
  and you're gonna babysit them,
• 18:29
  you're gonna be on top of them,
• 18:31
  you are going to have to hound them,
• 18:33
  so you're paying less cash,
• 18:36
  but you're spending more, usually mentally, emotionally...
• 18:37
  - It's the way you're contributing to the project, yes.
• 18:39
  - Yes. Versus that middle-ground bid or the highest bid,
• 18:42
  there are some amazing companies that you don't have to...
• 18:46
  You could go live in Florida for a year and come back,
• 18:49
  and your project would be done just the way you wanted
• 18:51
  and you're gonna pay for that, so knowing yourself
• 18:53
  and being real with yourself
• 18:54
  about where you fall in that spectrum, I also think is huge,
• 18:58
  and if you haven't done it before,
• 18:59
  you don't really know where you fall in that spectrum,
• 19:01
  so it's usually a tough learning lesson that first time.
• 19:04
  - After your show ended, you know,
• 19:06
  you went back to re-caulking showers and doing maintenance
• 19:10
  and, you know, back to basics on your rental properties,
• 19:14
  so what does it say
• 19:15
  about how you think about home ownership?
• 19:17
  - It really...
• 19:18
  Like, no one's ever gonna care as much as you,
• 19:19
  and I think that applies to home ownership,
• 19:21
  to running your own company, to whatever you care about,
• 19:24
  no one's gonna care as much as you,
• 19:26
  and while I didn't have the time
• 19:28
  to be doing the caulk repairs in the showers between tenants
• 19:32
  while I was doing the show and came out the first shower,
• 19:37
  like, the first property flip we had,
• 19:39
  I went in to re-caulk it and I'm like,
• 19:42
  "What the hell happened?"
• 19:43
  There was, like, six layers of caulk, it was done terribly,
• 19:47
  no one had scraped the old caulk out,
• 19:48
  it took me two hours to get the old caulk out of...
• 19:51
  It was a tub shower, before I could start fixing it,
• 19:54
  and that's not because, you know,
• 19:57
  someone was trying to screw me or they didn't care,
• 19:59
  it's just different.
• 20:01
  When it's your thing,
• 20:02
  when it's your asset that you wanna protect,
• 20:04
  you care more that you're gonna take the extra time.
• 20:07
  That was a lesson I learned over and over again.
• 20:09
  But it was nice getting back
• 20:12
  to, like, physically doing things 'cause with the show
• 20:15
  where Mom and I were doing a huge chunk of the work,
• 20:20
  we were filming all day, every day,
• 20:21
  five days a week for 10 years,
• 20:24
  and you can only fit so much in when you're filming,
• 20:27
  you're fitting what you can...
• 20:29
  For the content.
• 20:30
  - Yeah, "We have to get this,
• 20:31
  you know, one angle of this project done."
• 20:33
  - So while I don't wanna be, you know,
• 20:35
  the maintenance lady forever, that's not my...
• 20:37
  Actually, it doesn't seem like a bad retirement.
• 20:40
  (Angie laughing)
• 20:41
  It is nice kinda getting back to that
• 20:43
  and having in my memory bank,
• 20:46
  "This is what all of our properties are looking like,
• 20:48
  this is what the upcoming maintenance needs are,
• 20:50
  this is what..."
• 20:51
  I know all those things now
• 20:53
  versus having to rely on someone else
• 20:55
  to tell me a problem's coming up.
• 20:57
  - For someone who's listening
• 20:59
  who's scared to start, what do you want them to know?
• 21:03
  - I think that's a reasonable emotion to have
• 21:05
  and one that will help you, so don't not be scared,
• 21:10
  use that to get the education
• 21:14
  that you need for whatever the scope is,
• 21:15
  you're scared to start re-caulking your own shower
• 21:19
  or you're scared to start trying to tile
• 21:21
  or tearing up your floor.
• 21:23
  What I always recommend to people
• 21:25
  is, like, think about the worst-case scenario,
• 21:27
  and if you can handle the worst-case scenario, then try it,
• 21:30
  so let's say you wanna tear the floors up in your house,
• 21:34
  worst-case, you start and you're like, "Oh, crud.
• 21:37
  This is not going how I though it was,"
• 21:38
  can you live with it half-pulled up for...?
• 21:41
  - Yeah, ask your kids. (laughs)
• 21:42
  - Two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks
• 21:44
  until you can get someone to come in,
• 21:46
  and do you have the budget to have someone come in?
• 21:49
  So really just thinking through the worst-case scenarios
• 21:53
  and having confidence in yourself to try it,
• 21:56
  get confidence in yourself and your abilities
• 21:59
  or, you know, phone a friend, follow along,
• 22:01
  like, there's always people you know doing projects
• 22:05
  and just getting...
• 22:05
  Being around them.
• 22:07
  - I think about the impact you've had
• 22:09
  on the Indianapolis community,
• 22:10
  I mean, more than 100 houses that you've...
• 22:14
  You know, that you've bought, renovated, sold,
• 22:16
  like, how does that feel?
• 22:18
  - Good and bad because I think
• 22:21
  the conversation of gentrification always comes up
• 22:23
  and that's, I think, died down a bit
• 22:25
  because I think we as a company were an easy target
• 22:30
  because we had such a big platform with the show
• 22:33
  and what we were doing in Fountain Square
• 22:36
  really felt like a meaningful difference in a good way,
• 22:40
  and I can also see how compiled
• 22:42
  with all these really big investors, out-of-state buyers
• 22:45
  and what was happening overall in the community,
• 22:47
  it could be viewed
• 22:48
  as the kind of the ugly side of gentrification,
• 22:51
  so it was a bummer that was part of the conversation
• 22:55
  when we were really trying to, like...
• 22:58
  I still live in the neighborhood, I love the neighborhood,
• 23:00
  I love the mix of the neighborhood,
• 23:03
  but when you have a platform,
• 23:06
  no one can attack the random investor from California
• 23:09
  that has six LLCs and you'll never be able
• 23:11
  to find who actually owns it...
• 23:12
  - "Who is this person?" Yeah.
• 23:14
  - And the positives have more than outweighed the negatives.
• 23:18
  Doing TV, I often kind of felt like a dancing monkey,
• 23:23
  like, "This isn't what I started doing,
• 23:25
  this is what I'm meant to do,
• 23:26
  like, I like doing more construction,
• 23:27
  I wanna be hands-on, I wanna be working with homeowners,
• 23:30
  I wanna make a difference,"
• 23:31
  at the same time of really loving making the show,
• 23:34
  so I can't tell you the number of times
• 23:38
  that people have stopped me and said something like,
• 23:42
  "My mom was in chemo for six months,
• 23:44
  and every treatment, I would sit next to her
• 23:45
  and we'd watch your show, and, like, my mom loves you,"
• 23:48
  and while TV doesn't do that for me,
• 23:52
  it's shocking how many people it does things like that for
• 23:56
  and helps, like, support these memories
• 23:58
  and these experiences, and I think a big part of it
• 24:00
  was because, like, the mother-daughter relationship
• 24:02
  my mom and I had, so a lot of people could relate to that,
• 24:05
  particularly in times where they were challenging,
• 24:08
  so things like that really make it, like,
• 24:11
  "Okay, I'll deal with all the people
• 24:12
  that hate me for gentrification,"
• 24:15
  because it seems like it was really meaningful
• 24:17
  for a lot of people, which is awesome.
• 24:19
  - We have a trade labor shortage,
• 24:20
  there aren't a lot of women in the trades,
• 24:22
  like, what do you see as, you know, kinda something
• 24:25
  that can help turn the tide here?
• 24:27
  - I think the tide is turning, I think people are seeing...
• 24:32
  You know, my generation was, "You're not worth a damn
• 24:35
  if you don't graduate with a college degree
• 24:37
  and go straight into finance,"
• 24:38
  or you know, whatever, become a lawyer, become a doctor,
• 24:41
  and while that's still an amazing line of work,
• 24:45
  the people owning and running
• 24:47
  electrical and plumbing companies can be millionaires.
• 24:50
  The electricians are setting...
• 24:52
  Like, what you want an hour? You want 300 dollars an hour?
• 24:55
  Sure, because there's such a shortage
• 24:58
  because so many of these, like, older-generation people
• 25:01
  have those kids that don't respect the profession as much
• 25:04
  'cause of when they were born,
• 25:05
  and so, they don't want the business and they don't care,
• 25:07
  and it's just a huge opportunity to learn,
• 25:10
  go to a trade school, shadow a trade, you know, do...
• 25:14
  - An apprentice...
• 25:15
  - Yeah, an apprenticeship,
• 25:16
  if my kids like working with their hands 100 times over,
• 25:19
  if that's what they wanna do, I would love for them
• 25:21
  to do that because there's just so much opportunity,
• 25:23
  and in a world where there's so many things
• 25:26
  that are unknown with AI and who knows what else,
• 25:29
  like, AI is never gonna be the plumber
• 25:32
  that comes to your house
• 25:33
  and, like, stops it from flooding and fix it,
• 25:35
  like, think about these trades
• 25:36
  that are always going to be there, it's just dwindling,
• 25:39
  so there's a lot of opportunity.
• 25:41
  - Yeah.
• 25:41
  So the name of the show is "Own It,"
• 25:43
  and so, I always like to ask people,
• 25:45
  what does it mean to them to own it as a homeowner?
• 25:48
  - I think it means not just, you know,
• 25:50
  to physically have a title to the structure,
• 25:52
  I think it means to, like, own responsibility
• 25:57
  and the ability to have home ownership,
• 26:01
  like, that's a blessing in and of itself,
• 26:03
  whatever you've done to be able
• 26:04
  to be in this position, you've worked really hard,
• 26:07
  take that, respect it and maintain it,
• 26:10
  so own it, take care of your home, do the maintenance,
• 26:14
  just put yourself and your love into it,
• 26:17
  particularly if you live in a transitional neighborhood,
• 26:19
  you have so much power
• 26:21
  just, like, planting new plants in your front yard,
• 26:23
  it encourages other neighbors to do the same,
• 26:25
  they're like, "Oh, someone cares, it's worth me caring,"
• 26:28
  so even not just your own home, but it can just spread,
• 26:30
  which is a nice thing to be able to do,
• 26:32
  and it's a power that I think some people
• 26:34
  don't know they have.
• 26:36
  - Here's what I'm taking away
• 26:37
  from my conversation with Mina.
• 26:39
  Don't skip the inspection.
• 26:41
  Bring questions along with you,
• 26:43
  even bring a contractor if you can.
• 26:45
  That report is 60 to 90 pages of things
• 26:48
  you'll likely not understand unless you were there.
• 26:51
  Go into it assuming the worst.
• 26:53
  Budget for the roof, the foundation,
• 26:55
  the electrical, even the sewer.
• 26:57
  And if any of these things
• 26:58
  are magically not broken, it's a bonus.
• 27:01
  And if they are, at least you're not surprised
• 27:04
  and you're not broke.
• 27:05
  There's always a reason
• 27:06
  for the lowest bid being the lowest bid,
• 27:09
  you're not getting a deal.
• 27:10
  You're trading your money for a lot of patience and time,
• 27:14
  and make sure you know which one
• 27:16
  you're willing to trade off before you sign.
• 27:19
  And here's the one that really stuck with me.
• 27:21
  No one is gonna care about your home more than you do.
• 27:24
  Not the contractor, not the inspector and not the realtor.
• 27:28
  It's not a criticism, it's just the truth,
• 27:30
  so you have to stay involved.
• 27:32
  No one's gonna chase down the problems on your behalf.
• 27:35
  Regular maintenance is always less expensive
• 27:38
  than deferred maintenance, always, always, always.
• 27:42
  And that's it for "Own It" today,
• 27:44
  and a big thanks to Mina for joining us in studio,
• 27:46
  and thank you all for watching.
• 27:48
  If you like this episode, please subscribe
• 27:51
  and share it with someone you know
• 27:52
  who might be getting ready to take the cheapest estimate.
• 27:56
  They need this more than they think they need this.
• 27:58
  I'm Angie Hicks and I'll see you next time.