Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Fighting Greenwashing with Climate-Tech Data — Irene Rosique-Conesa
Transcript
- WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.800 Greenwashing is everywhere from supermarket shelves to 2 00:00:03.800 --> 00:00:07.440 corporate annual reports. But here's the questions. 3 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:11.680 Are those sustainability claims worth anything without 4 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.080 hard dated? Back them up. My guest today says 5 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:20.160 no and she's here to prove that. We're going to unpack 6 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.840 what screen washing gets wrong and how a new wave of climate 7 00:00:23.840 --> 00:00:27.260 tech is fixing it with science, not spins. 8 00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:36.060 Welcome to Startuprad IO, 9 00:00:36.700 --> 00:00:40.220 your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German 10 00:00:40.220 --> 00:00:43.740 startup scene with news, interviews and 11 00:00:43.980 --> 00:00:45.180 live events. 12 00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:51.300 Welcome back to Startup Radio, your gateway to the German, Swiss and Austrian 13 00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:54.660 startup scene, bringing you the founders, investors and 14 00:00:54.660 --> 00:00:58.240 innovators shaping the future. I'm your host, Joe 15 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.680 Manager and today we are diving deep into the world of climate 16 00:01:01.680 --> 00:01:05.320 tech supply chain transparency and why the fight 17 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.960 against greenwashing is about more than just good 18 00:01:08.960 --> 00:01:12.600 intentions. Joining me today is Irene. 19 00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:16.040 Hey. Hi Irene. Hi Jo. Thank you for having me. 20 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:19.720 My pleasure. She's the co founder and CEO of 21 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:23.960 Novio Planet, a climate tech platform spun out 22 00:01:23.960 --> 00:01:27.560 of BASF in 2023 that's making 23 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.820 environmental data the global stand for transparency. 24 00:01:31.220 --> 00:01:34.980 Irene has more than a decade of experience in large scale 25 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:38.820 life cycle assessment, has worked with industry leaders like 26 00:01:38.820 --> 00:01:42.260 Evonik, KWS Best Mix and Believe 27 00:01:42.980 --> 00:01:46.620 say the key to stopping greenwashing isn't more 28 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:50.100 pr, it's better data. From growing up 29 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:54.060 in farming regions of Spain where she witnessed environmental 30 00:01:54.060 --> 00:01:57.300 damage firsthand, to leading digital 31 00:01:57.380 --> 00:02:00.740 transformation projects in the agri food sector at basf. 32 00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:04.560 Arene Story is a remix of scientific precision and 33 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.160 founder grit. And here's a little insider note. If you're a 34 00:02:08.160 --> 00:02:11.960 Founders Vault subscriber, you'll get to hear Irene's unfiltered 35 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.640 thoughts on wor greenwashing tactics. She's seen 36 00:02:15.640 --> 00:02:19.480 in the wild the realities of being a woman founding climate tech and the 37 00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:22.880 bold moves Nu Planet has planned. Next, you could join 38 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:26.800 us via our YouTube membership or on substack 39 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:30.520 to get that exclusive segment. And I can also spill a 40 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:33.450 secret. You can. You are owning a churros maker, right? 41 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:39.890 That's right. That's right. So that was my best acquisition during 42 00:02:39.890 --> 00:02:42.970 the COVID lockdown. For everybody who doesn't know 43 00:02:43.450 --> 00:02:46.010 you're originally from Spain, you 44 00:02:47.210 --> 00:02:51.050 are joining us currently from Madrid, but your startup is based close 45 00:02:51.050 --> 00:02:53.530 to BASF in Germany and 46 00:02:55.930 --> 00:02:59.530 in Spain. There's a lot of good food, but I really, really 47 00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:02.650 like. I actually just bought a package of 48 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:07.670 very dense cacao hot chocolate that you eat with 49 00:03:07.670 --> 00:03:11.390 churros con chocolate, which is the chocolate part. Can you explain for 50 00:03:11.390 --> 00:03:15.230 everybody who's never tasted it what it's like? So 51 00:03:15.230 --> 00:03:19.029 Churiza is a typical Spanish dessert which is made 52 00:03:19.029 --> 00:03:21.830 of dough, basically. So it's like a 53 00:03:22.070 --> 00:03:25.670 Berliner. Maybe your audience knows a Berliner, 54 00:03:25.750 --> 00:03:28.390 but in a shape of a circular long 55 00:03:30.150 --> 00:03:33.990 line, basically. But it's like a fried dough. So 56 00:03:33.990 --> 00:03:37.390 it's kind of like a Berliner, but in the Spanish way that you normally eat 57 00:03:37.390 --> 00:03:41.070 with hot chocolate. That's true. And normally 58 00:03:41.070 --> 00:03:44.550 that's typical really on Sundays. So every Sunday 59 00:03:44.709 --> 00:03:48.510 you would go and buy churros. You eat the hot chocolate or. Yeah, like New 60 00:03:48.510 --> 00:03:52.150 Year's. That's also very typical. It actually 61 00:03:52.150 --> 00:03:55.550 surprised me when you said it's a typical dessert because I always 62 00:03:55.550 --> 00:03:59.230 associate it with the very early mornings when 63 00:03:59.230 --> 00:04:01.890 you leave the Spanish night. Nightlife. Because in Madrid, 64 00:04:02.530 --> 00:04:05.810 nightlife starts at midnight and lasts 65 00:04:06.130 --> 00:04:09.810 maybe until 6am and that's usually the time I had children. 66 00:04:09.970 --> 00:04:13.570 And then you go to San Gines, which is the best churria in 67 00:04:13.570 --> 00:04:17.330 Madrid, and then you have the churros at. 7Am yeah, 68 00:04:17.330 --> 00:04:21.050 that's usually the people pull me over. Come on, come on. 69 00:04:21.050 --> 00:04:24.450 Churros con chocolate. Yes. Okay, 70 00:04:24.450 --> 00:04:28.150 Irene, let's start right at the heart of this. In your own words, or what 71 00:04:28.150 --> 00:04:31.750 is greenwashing in 2025 and why does it 72 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:34.910 still happen when we've never had more 73 00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:38.670 sustainability regulations on the books? Yeah, thank 74 00:04:38.670 --> 00:04:42.110 you, Joe, for the question. So indeed, I think there are a lot of 75 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:45.790 regulations upcoming now, but greenwashing 76 00:04:45.790 --> 00:04:48.350 is still happening because companies are still making 77 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:52.670 environmental claims which are not based on 78 00:04:52.670 --> 00:04:55.950 evidence, which are not based on transparent and 79 00:04:55.950 --> 00:04:59.620 verifiable data. So any environmental claim 80 00:04:59.620 --> 00:05:03.180 that you might see in the supermarket, if you 81 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:06.700 don't see any asterisk or any really 82 00:05:06.780 --> 00:05:10.460 small tax explaining what it means, that's a sign 83 00:05:10.460 --> 00:05:14.060 of greenwashing. So even though there are a lot of regulations 84 00:05:14.620 --> 00:05:18.300 today, still there is a lot of gray area that is not covering 85 00:05:18.940 --> 00:05:19.980 such claims. 86 00:05:23.450 --> 00:05:27.130 Can you share a high profile or memorable 87 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:30.970 example of copper greenwashing that failed and 88 00:05:31.130 --> 00:05:34.810 what we can learn from it? Yeah, so 89 00:05:34.970 --> 00:05:38.610 I think so maybe like two examples 90 00:05:38.610 --> 00:05:41.130 that I think everyone can relate to. 91 00:05:42.330 --> 00:05:46.090 For example, when you go to, again to the supermarket and you look at 92 00:05:46.090 --> 00:05:49.850 any product maybe in the package, if you look at a plastic 93 00:05:49.850 --> 00:05:53.090 bottle, maybe it says 100% recycled 94 00:05:53.090 --> 00:05:56.870 material. So all these packaging, packaging claims that 95 00:05:56.870 --> 00:06:00.550 talk about recyclability, normally that's 96 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:04.070 hiding more that it's not written in the label. 97 00:06:04.390 --> 00:06:07.990 So packaging would be one sector where this is really widely spread 98 00:06:07.990 --> 00:06:11.750 right now. And also the textile industry, I 99 00:06:11.750 --> 00:06:15.590 think we have all these claims a bit misleading when they talk 100 00:06:15.590 --> 00:06:19.190 about organic cotton. Okay. This T shirt 101 00:06:19.190 --> 00:06:22.550 Reduced the water footprint in X region. 102 00:06:23.030 --> 00:06:26.710 So all these labels are related to our clothes that we buy. 103 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:29.650 They can be really, really misleading. Still today 104 00:06:31.090 --> 00:06:34.410 I was wondering for our audience, what's the worst example of 105 00:06:34.410 --> 00:06:37.330 greenwashing you've seen? Tell us in the comments below. 106 00:06:38.690 --> 00:06:42.330 Irene. What? Why do you 107 00:06:42.330 --> 00:06:45.650 think so many companies treat sustainability as a 108 00:06:45.650 --> 00:06:49.410 marketing exercise rather than measurable impact 109 00:06:49.570 --> 00:06:53.090 strategy? Yeah, so yeah, 110 00:06:53.170 --> 00:06:57.010 that's a really good question because you're here for the good questions. 111 00:06:59.170 --> 00:07:02.770 We were just getting started. So I think 112 00:07:02.770 --> 00:07:06.490 that, I mean as consumers. Yeah. That we 113 00:07:06.490 --> 00:07:09.970 are all consumers. So I think when 114 00:07:10.210 --> 00:07:13.730 the price and the functionality of the product 115 00:07:13.970 --> 00:07:17.810 is the same, then the consumer will always buy 116 00:07:17.810 --> 00:07:20.770 something that is coming from a company that is 117 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:24.900 environmentally conscious. Yeah. So a company that has some sustainability 118 00:07:24.900 --> 00:07:28.100 or environmental related strategy. 119 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:32.220 So I think companies still understand that because 120 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:35.860 consumers are aware of the environment and are aware of the 121 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:39.700 climate change. Who hasn't heard of climate change today? Then they would 122 00:07:39.700 --> 00:07:43.220 choose this more sustainable, let's say product over 123 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:46.820 another one that has the same price and functionality. 124 00:07:47.300 --> 00:07:51.150 So it is very easy and cheap to have a 125 00:07:51.150 --> 00:07:54.390 marketing narrative over really embedding 126 00:07:54.390 --> 00:07:58.070 sustainability in the operations of the company 127 00:07:58.150 --> 00:08:01.830 to reduce waste, to reduce all 128 00:08:01.830 --> 00:08:05.390 kind of raw materials. So that's always the 129 00:08:05.390 --> 00:08:08.150 easy way. And consumers still value 130 00:08:08.710 --> 00:08:12.270 sustainability today. Of course. And the 131 00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:15.910 missing link is data. With no you planet. You 132 00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:19.430 said data is the missing link in sustainability. 133 00:08:19.990 --> 00:08:23.430 How does this apply to solving the 134 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:27.190 greenwashing problem? Yeah, yeah. So 135 00:08:28.390 --> 00:08:31.750 let me give you some context here. So there was this study 136 00:08:32.309 --> 00:08:36.070 performed by the European Commission a couple of years ago and 137 00:08:36.070 --> 00:08:39.790 they investigated all the sustainability labels that we find 138 00:08:39.790 --> 00:08:43.590 in the Supermarket, which are 230 139 00:08:43.670 --> 00:08:46.550 different labels that you find on the products. 140 00:08:47.270 --> 00:08:50.890 You know, these labels, what I said before about recyclability 141 00:08:50.890 --> 00:08:53.810 of the materials, all this eco bio 142 00:08:53.970 --> 00:08:57.570 organic. And what they found is that actually 143 00:08:57.970 --> 00:09:01.730 half of these claims, they don't have any data back in them. 144 00:09:02.930 --> 00:09:06.450 So they don't have any verifiable data saying like, okay, 145 00:09:06.610 --> 00:09:10.050 this is a bottle which is coming from recycled material. 146 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:13.730 And here is why. So data. 147 00:09:14.450 --> 00:09:18.260 And really at the product level, that's what's 148 00:09:18.260 --> 00:09:21.340 missing. To verify and to make sure that 149 00:09:22.140 --> 00:09:25.580 it's a proper environmental claim. So 150 00:09:25.820 --> 00:09:29.140 we're not down to data. And you get data from 151 00:09:29.140 --> 00:09:32.700 measurements. What's wrong with the 152 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:36.380 way most companies measure their environmental impact today? 153 00:09:36.780 --> 00:09:40.300 And how could your LCA software improve this? 154 00:09:40.870 --> 00:09:44.430 Yeah, so again, looking at the 155 00:09:44.430 --> 00:09:48.030 supermarket today is the supermarket 156 00:09:48.030 --> 00:09:51.830 topic. So when they, well, when you look at the, at the 157 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:55.590 environmental impact of a supermarket, 95% is coming from the 158 00:09:55.590 --> 00:09:58.870 products. Yeah. That you find on the shelves. And 159 00:09:59.350 --> 00:10:03.190 today it is accepted in the regulations to use, 160 00:10:03.270 --> 00:10:06.960 let's say the same average emission 161 00:10:07.040 --> 00:10:10.640 factor for of course, per group. 162 00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:14.400 Right. So per vegetables, per meat, if it comes from chicken, 163 00:10:14.400 --> 00:10:17.520 pork and so on, they would use one emission 164 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:21.680 factor, average industry factor for all 165 00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:25.200 these products. So this doesn't allow to really 166 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.800 engage with your suppliers. This doesn't allow improve your 167 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:32.320 supply chain because you don't have any transparency. You're using just average 168 00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:36.240 data. So with LCA 169 00:10:36.940 --> 00:10:40.660 and Nuvio Planet, So LCA is lifecycle assessment. You 170 00:10:40.660 --> 00:10:44.460 can measure the real environmental impact in 171 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:47.860 the supply chain of your product. So with lifecycle 172 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:51.420 assessment, that's really the tool and the methodology that is used 173 00:10:51.900 --> 00:10:55.300 to account for all the emissions, for all the resource 174 00:10:55.300 --> 00:10:58.940 consumption that happens along the life cycle of a product. 175 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:03.180 In this way you can find specificity and you can 176 00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:07.400 really see the real impact 177 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.840 from your suppliers. And at the product level, my 178 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:14.560 understanding is it's the complete life cycle. So a lot of like 179 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:17.640 you've been talking about, for example, fashion, 180 00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:22.280 I'm not necessarily a fashion guy here, speaking from my 181 00:11:22.280 --> 00:11:25.960 experience, but my understanding would be, for example, that 182 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:29.240 some of the claims are basically just the production 183 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.440 of, of the clothes, but nobody considers how 184 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.920 to dispose of them. What, what do you need to do with them? How 185 00:11:38.180 --> 00:11:41.860 the environment. And if you assess the complete lifecycle, that's 186 00:11:41.860 --> 00:11:45.580 something different. Indeed. Yeah. So I mean 187 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:49.300 normally these environmental claims, that's 188 00:11:49.540 --> 00:11:53.300 from cradle to gate, so to the gate of where you 189 00:11:53.300 --> 00:11:57.140 buy them. Right. So of course the end of life of 190 00:11:57.140 --> 00:12:00.900 each product, that's also included in the lifecycle assessment. 191 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:04.420 But normally that's out of the scope of these environmental claims. 192 00:12:05.140 --> 00:12:08.180 But the way of disposing or all the textiles, 193 00:12:09.380 --> 00:12:13.200 that would really change the environmental impact of the product, especially depending 194 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:16.920 on where in the world. Yeah, because the waste management systems, 195 00:12:16.920 --> 00:12:20.400 of course, that's completely different. So that, that could have a huge 196 00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:24.520 difference in the environmental impact of a T shirt wherever you buy 197 00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:28.280 it. Yeah. And how can the 198 00:12:28.280 --> 00:12:31.760 right climate tech SaaS turn sustainability 199 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.880 from like a compliance cost into driver of 200 00:12:35.880 --> 00:12:39.660 innovation and growth? So I think that this life cycle 201 00:12:39.660 --> 00:12:43.180 approach, this life cycle thinking, that must be 202 00:12:43.180 --> 00:12:46.780 embedded into any product innovation, product development. 203 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:51.500 So when companies, regardless of the sector, when they are developing new products, 204 00:12:52.060 --> 00:12:55.780 they need to embed sustainability in their research. And that's 205 00:12:55.780 --> 00:12:58.460 already happening in some sectors, 206 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:03.260 but that will be the norm going forward, that this 207 00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:06.620 LCA approach that's embedded in any product innovation 208 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:10.600 so that at the end companies really also grow their, their top line. 209 00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:15.320 Let's go a little bit from corporate to climate tech. 210 00:13:16.040 --> 00:13:19.800 What moment at ESF convinced you that 211 00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:23.320 the corporate ESG model alone couldn't deliver 212 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.200 true supply chain transparency? 213 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:32.320 So right. So esg, that's the environment, social and 214 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.860 governance aspect of. So it's the entire 215 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:39.660 sustainability. Right. My focus is always on environmental 216 00:13:39.660 --> 00:13:43.220 sustainability. That's what I study. That's what we do with Nuvio Planet. 217 00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:48.100 So at BASF when we talk to customers 218 00:13:48.420 --> 00:13:51.940 and suppliers, because of course, I mean BASF is at the beginning of 219 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:55.900 literally every value chain of every product. So when 220 00:13:55.900 --> 00:13:59.300 we talk to either customers or suppliers, we 221 00:13:59.300 --> 00:14:02.990 realize that having these corporate targets, having these corporate 222 00:14:02.990 --> 00:14:06.590 average numbers, that's not enough. So they wanted to 223 00:14:06.590 --> 00:14:09.950 have tools, they wanted to have data at the product level 224 00:14:10.430 --> 00:14:14.190 so that they could really drive and have the transparency in the supply 225 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:18.030 chain. So I mean it has been a journey of course. So 226 00:14:18.030 --> 00:14:21.670 I think BASF released the first corporate carbon footprint in 227 00:14:21.670 --> 00:14:25.230 2008. So not so long ago 228 00:14:25.550 --> 00:14:29.300 if you think about it. And then since then it 229 00:14:29.300 --> 00:14:33.100 has been just to improve. And that's what we are also trying 230 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:36.420 to do today with the tools and the software that we have. They are not 231 00:14:36.420 --> 00:14:40.060 perfect but it's always continuous improvement. 232 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.140 I have a smartass question for you. You work there, you've been 233 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:48.700 there. Do you know what BASF stands for? Yeah. 234 00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:54.860 Here you go. And everybody repeats right now. 235 00:14:56.460 --> 00:15:00.160 Sorry. It's something I know because it's not too far away from. I 236 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:04.000 grew up. Oh yeah, okay. How did you navigate 237 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.320 the leap from a corporate leader 238 00:15:07.560 --> 00:15:11.320 to climate tech founder? Especially in such 239 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.640 a mission driven SAS business? 240 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.000 So I was, I was really fortunate because for the past two years 241 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.440 I've been part of this startup program at BASF 242 00:15:23.800 --> 00:15:27.640 where we have grown Nuvio Planet where I have, where I have met 243 00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:30.520 my, my co founder, my current co founder Jorg. 244 00:15:32.900 --> 00:15:36.700 Actually during these past two years I 245 00:15:36.700 --> 00:15:40.420 have already had the complete startup experience from changing 246 00:15:40.420 --> 00:15:43.220 the founding team a couple of times, 247 00:15:44.580 --> 00:15:48.020 hiring the team, scaling the teams, having to have 248 00:15:48.020 --> 00:15:51.860 restructures. I 249 00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:55.460 was fortunate enough to have this transition because of this 250 00:15:55.460 --> 00:15:59.060 startup program from BASF where we really 251 00:15:59.060 --> 00:16:02.780 incubated Nuvio Planet so that now we can go as an independent, as 252 00:16:02.780 --> 00:16:04.160 a fully independent company. 253 00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:11.920 Guys, we'll be back with more questions after show that break. 254 00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:29.690 You. 255 00:16:35.290 --> 00:16:38.970 Back from the ad break. We want to know now how Nuvial Planet 256 00:16:38.970 --> 00:16:42.090 actually works. What did you have to 257 00:16:42.410 --> 00:16:46.210 unlearn from your coupled life to succeed in the fast 258 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:48.650 paced green tech startup ecosystem? 259 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:52.330 So quite many things 260 00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:56.930 but I would say so mainly I think the 261 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:02.770 also like one of My mentors always told me like this shipment 262 00:17:03.170 --> 00:17:06.970 beats perfection. So all the 263 00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:10.330 processes, right, that you have at a corporation, all the processes for 264 00:17:10.330 --> 00:17:13.970 approval, all the processes for alignment, all the processes for 265 00:17:14.850 --> 00:17:18.130 defining the 10 year strategy for something 266 00:17:19.490 --> 00:17:22.770 that's of course not happening. And while you need to move 267 00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:27.340 while being mindful, of course, because we are in a pretty 268 00:17:27.340 --> 00:17:30.620 scientific field, so of course we cannot do 269 00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:34.060 really too bold movements. But still I think this 270 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:37.660 achievement, that's really something that I have 271 00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:41.020 to unlearn. And I would also say that 272 00:17:41.580 --> 00:17:45.180 the failure culture, so I really 273 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:51.380 had to unlearn that failure is not an 274 00:17:51.380 --> 00:17:54.630 option because somehow this at the corporate level, 275 00:17:54.950 --> 00:17:58.790 that's not the failure culture, 276 00:17:58.870 --> 00:18:02.230 let's say is not very embedded in the corporations. 277 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:06.310 So now it's a must, right, that you need to fail so that you can 278 00:18:06.310 --> 00:18:08.550 move. So that you can move. 279 00:18:10.550 --> 00:18:13.990 And I think also living with the uncertainty, living with the risk, 280 00:18:14.470 --> 00:18:18.150 so leaving my permanent German 281 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:22.470 corporate job, of course that's 282 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:25.810 a huge risk that I had to take and that have to 283 00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:29.930 live with this uncertainty. Like I really believe in 284 00:18:29.930 --> 00:18:33.770 what we are doing, I really believe in the impact that we 285 00:18:33.770 --> 00:18:37.570 are creating. But it's a huge risk and it's very 286 00:18:37.570 --> 00:18:41.010 uncertain. So I don't know where we will be in one, two years. 287 00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:44.050 Right. Hopefully driving 288 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.210 and helping our customers with the sustainability journey. 289 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:52.670 But it's pretty uncertain. So this 290 00:18:53.070 --> 00:18:56.910 uncertainty, I didn't have it before, of course. I was wondering, 291 00:18:56.910 --> 00:19:00.710 because such assessing the lifecycle is nothing really 292 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:03.710 easy. So I was wondering, how does your 293 00:19:04.030 --> 00:19:07.789 lifecycle assessment platform turn complex 294 00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:10.990 environmental metrics when we're just talking about stuff that 295 00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:13.710 BASF produces, food, 296 00:19:14.510 --> 00:19:18.190 textiles, There's a lot of input. How 297 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.310 do you turn those complex environmental metrics into 298 00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:25.100 actionable decisions that meet the 299 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:28.900 CSRD compliance for 300 00:19:28.900 --> 00:19:31.700 everybody? That's a directive of the European Union. 301 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:37.140 Yeah. So we have already 302 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:41.300 mapped, let's say the whole materiality assessments, 303 00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:45.980 all the parameters, all the hotspots that you have in the lifecycle of 304 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:49.600 a product. Let's say for example milk. 305 00:19:50.870 --> 00:19:54.630 So our customers, when they register to our 306 00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:58.390 product, we have a template, an LCA template 307 00:19:58.390 --> 00:20:02.190 for milk. So everything is already built. They just need to 308 00:20:02.190 --> 00:20:05.789 enter their production data. So we have already 309 00:20:05.789 --> 00:20:09.470 aligned our science, our lcas with the 310 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:12.630 methodology. We are working with external 311 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:15.350 certifiers so that they can certify our methodology. 312 00:20:16.230 --> 00:20:19.750 And basically with this modular 313 00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:23.750 and with this, let's say easy interface and already everything in 314 00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:25.830 the backend that they don't need to see 315 00:20:27.190 --> 00:20:30.710 that's embedded in the product. After many years of 316 00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:34.310 research that we have been doing this at BSF 317 00:20:35.510 --> 00:20:39.070 and this is mainly how we make it easier for the 318 00:20:39.070 --> 00:20:42.750 user. For them it's reproducible, so they always 319 00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:46.510 get the same lca, the same template. And for them they know 320 00:20:46.510 --> 00:20:50.210 what data to collect. Bas, can you share 321 00:20:50.290 --> 00:20:54.050 a success story where something like accurate carbon 322 00:20:54.050 --> 00:20:57.250 footprint tracking changed a client sustainability 323 00:20:57.490 --> 00:20:59.490 strategy? I would say that 324 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.610 I think the best 325 00:21:05.570 --> 00:21:09.130 example, maybe that we might have is a 326 00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:12.610 customer producing milk and 327 00:21:14.290 --> 00:21:17.850 they used our tool to reformulate what they were 328 00:21:17.850 --> 00:21:21.350 giving to the cows as animal 329 00:21:21.350 --> 00:21:24.910 feed. And thanks to our tool, they, after 330 00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:28.190 several attempts, I mean, we allow like multiple 331 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:31.790 simulations, but then they could reduce the carbon footprint of milk 332 00:21:31.790 --> 00:21:35.150 by 8%. And then 333 00:21:35.310 --> 00:21:38.870 here, I mean, of course it's not only based on 334 00:21:38.870 --> 00:21:42.670 sustainability. Yeah. So today, I mean, sustainability, 335 00:21:43.070 --> 00:21:46.590 it's an add on which in future it will become of course a must. 336 00:21:46.990 --> 00:21:49.790 But of course, when you look at the nutrition, when you look at the price, 337 00:21:50.590 --> 00:21:54.330 everything was better as well. And then on top, the sustainability 338 00:21:54.410 --> 00:21:58.170 aspect and just to give you some dimension because of course it's 339 00:21:58.170 --> 00:22:01.530 8%, that's a bit abstract, but 340 00:22:01.850 --> 00:22:04.890 if we would consider that this customer would apply 341 00:22:06.490 --> 00:22:10.130 this, let's say, new formulation to all the milk that they buy 342 00:22:10.130 --> 00:22:13.530 from their suppliers, this would be equivalent to 343 00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:18.010 1 million passenger flights round trip from 344 00:22:18.010 --> 00:22:21.480 Berlin to New York per year. So 345 00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:25.440 that's all the amount of CO2 that could be saved because of this 346 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.240 new strategy from this customer. That's a lot 347 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:33.080 of time up in the air, especially considering that 348 00:22:33.080 --> 00:22:36.600 I do have a cousin who flies this route on a regular 349 00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:38.680 basis as a pilot. So 350 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.040 that's quite an impact, especially if you can manifest 351 00:22:44.040 --> 00:22:46.760 it with something most people have experienced in their life. 352 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:51.780 That's pretty interesting. And I also had to smile when we've been talking, 353 00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:56.060 when my wife later asked, how was your interview? Oh, it 354 00:22:56.060 --> 00:22:58.900 was great. We talked about churros con chocolate and a lot of milk. 355 00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:04.500 The basics, the important stuff. 356 00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:08.980 Let's go a little bit more seriously back to the interview. What 357 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:12.500 misconceptions do clients have before 358 00:23:13.310 --> 00:23:16.910 working with you? And how does science based sustainability data 359 00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:20.990 shift their mindset? So I think 360 00:23:20.990 --> 00:23:24.590 at the beginning they all think that it's going to be really expensive 361 00:23:25.390 --> 00:23:28.869 and that it's going to take really a lot of time to do an LCA 362 00:23:28.869 --> 00:23:32.510 for their products. But then when we show the product, 363 00:23:32.510 --> 00:23:36.270 of course they see like, okay, they can do it in hours instead of 364 00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:39.510 months, that it would be the case with a 365 00:23:39.510 --> 00:23:43.270 consultant and really for a small 366 00:23:43.270 --> 00:23:45.890 share of the price that they would pay if they would do it with an 367 00:23:45.890 --> 00:23:49.010 External party. So I think that's always the 368 00:23:49.010 --> 00:23:52.090 misconceptions and I would say that also 369 00:23:52.890 --> 00:23:56.490 they think that they don't have the data, that they don't have what they need 370 00:23:56.490 --> 00:24:00.290 to do the lca. Right. And everything is in their system. So of course 371 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:04.010 they know what they produce. So no one else knows 372 00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:07.810 better than the companies, of course, their production 373 00:24:07.810 --> 00:24:11.450 data. I think with our 374 00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:14.970 platform, as I mentioned before, so we are 375 00:24:14.970 --> 00:24:18.670 aligning with method, with standards. So 376 00:24:18.670 --> 00:24:22.470 we, we make sure. Yeah, that, that everything is, is 377 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:26.150 compliant so that they don't have to do it themselves. Yeah, so they can 378 00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:29.750 rely 100% on our tool to 379 00:24:29.750 --> 00:24:31.910 be, to be compliant with the methodologies. 380 00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:37.670 My understanding is also the use of 381 00:24:37.670 --> 00:24:41.190 Nuvio Planet software is driven in part by regulation. 382 00:24:42.630 --> 00:24:45.690 How is CSRD legislation 383 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:49.850 shaping the sustainability conversations across Europe 384 00:24:50.330 --> 00:24:52.490 and the agri food supply chain? 385 00:24:54.570 --> 00:24:58.170 Yeah, that's a very good point. And I mean 386 00:24:59.690 --> 00:25:03.130 there are a lot of updates regarding the 387 00:25:03.210 --> 00:25:06.970 regulations and how the CSRD was again delayed or 388 00:25:07.210 --> 00:25:10.910 with the omnibus package. But, but in general this is 389 00:25:10.910 --> 00:25:14.550 really shaping the conversation in a way 390 00:25:14.550 --> 00:25:18.270 that companies know that it's coming. So companies know that they have 391 00:25:18.270 --> 00:25:20.950 to report and they are all preparing. 392 00:25:21.830 --> 00:25:25.350 But the reality is that, I mean actually companies, 393 00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:29.710 they know that when they have the data, when they have 394 00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:32.630 sustainability data, when they have the real environmental data, 395 00:25:33.350 --> 00:25:36.470 this clarity will help them to really make better 396 00:25:37.010 --> 00:25:40.850 strategic decisions. So companies are doing it just to 397 00:25:40.850 --> 00:25:44.690 future proof their license to operate because regulations, 398 00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:48.610 okay, in five years they will change, right, we will have new regulations. 399 00:25:50.050 --> 00:25:53.890 But companies, they are really taking care of making sure that 400 00:25:54.050 --> 00:25:57.810 they have the data and they are future proofing their 401 00:25:58.530 --> 00:25:59.970 data systems as well. 402 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:07.140 By the way, when are your clients required to 403 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:10.540 do those lifecycle assessments? Report this data. 404 00:26:11.820 --> 00:26:14.460 So the agri food company, so that was delayed until 405 00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:17.979 2026 now. So the first 406 00:26:17.979 --> 00:26:21.700 fiscal year will be 2025. So that will be the first year 407 00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:25.340 when they have to report. So they can 408 00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:29.060 of course use our platform to calculate 409 00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:32.760 the specific supplier footprint data. 410 00:26:35.310 --> 00:26:38.430 But just, sorry, I mean, having said that, I mean we have, 411 00:26:39.150 --> 00:26:42.750 there are many companies that already report on a voluntary 412 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:45.630 basis. So there are other frameworks like the 413 00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:49.390 sbti, so the science based target 414 00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:52.910 initiative, so that has been around for 415 00:26:53.310 --> 00:26:56.510 quite some years already and they are 416 00:26:56.510 --> 00:27:00.350 certifying science based carbon reduction targets. 417 00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:04.670 So some companies that have been already reporting this, so nothing 418 00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:07.710 changes for them, it's just that, okay, they have to do it now in a 419 00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:10.910 different reporting framework. But some companies, 420 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:13.790 they have already been doing that. Especially 421 00:27:15.390 --> 00:27:19.110 I mean when you look at Europe, the biggest retailers for example, they have 422 00:27:19.110 --> 00:27:22.510 already this voluntary reporting systems in place. 423 00:27:24.750 --> 00:27:27.870 From our audience, I want to know, do you think 424 00:27:28.190 --> 00:27:31.800 regulation is key to any greenwashing or 425 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.840 will it take something else? Share your thoughts with us 426 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:40.600 Irene. If every company had real time 427 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.440 ESG data like tomorrow, what would be the 428 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:48.040 first big change you'd seen in the global food system? 429 00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:53.240 Well, that would be a dream 430 00:27:54.120 --> 00:27:55.560 because then we would see, 431 00:27:58.610 --> 00:28:02.250 we would see transparency, we would see transparent value chains, we would see 432 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:05.490 transparent data, we would see dynamic 433 00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:08.770 sourcing. So we would see 434 00:28:09.090 --> 00:28:12.650 really companies and consumers choosing low 435 00:28:12.650 --> 00:28:16.490 impact products and that 436 00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:19.890 will have also an impact on the customers. 437 00:28:20.210 --> 00:28:24.050 So they will reduce the costs that they need and the human resources 438 00:28:24.050 --> 00:28:26.450 that they need for reporting. 439 00:28:27.650 --> 00:28:31.310 With all these new regulations, which is 440 00:28:31.550 --> 00:28:35.350 right now they are a bit freaking out some of 441 00:28:35.350 --> 00:28:39.190 them because they need to report it's something that comes on top. They 442 00:28:39.190 --> 00:28:41.710 don't want to do it, they have to do it. 443 00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:46.710 So the tool providers, let's say we try to make it 444 00:28:46.710 --> 00:28:47.870 easier for them. 445 00:28:50.910 --> 00:28:54.630 As the last question hitting almost exactly a 446 00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:58.310 30 minute mark here, here. Awesome timing by the way. What's your 447 00:28:58.310 --> 00:29:01.110 boldest prediction for the role of data 448 00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:04.390 transparency in Climatech by 2030? 449 00:29:07.350 --> 00:29:11.110 So I would say that environmental data 450 00:29:11.350 --> 00:29:14.950 must be, must be as important as price 451 00:29:15.030 --> 00:29:18.830 and nutrition. So I would love to see that, I would love to 452 00:29:18.830 --> 00:29:22.630 see a real label, environmental label on every 453 00:29:22.630 --> 00:29:25.830 product with verifiable data behind 454 00:29:26.630 --> 00:29:30.370 and I would, I would like to see really a lot of interconnected 455 00:29:30.370 --> 00:29:34.210 systems. So nowadays it's very difficult still to connect to software 456 00:29:34.210 --> 00:29:37.970 and to connect to different systems, it takes some time. So I think 457 00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:41.650 a fully interconnected, let's say ecosystem and supply chain, 458 00:29:42.370 --> 00:29:45.850 we're connecting software and data security and data 459 00:29:45.850 --> 00:29:47.970 flowing, that's the norm. 460 00:29:50.610 --> 00:29:54.310 Ari Only thing left for me to say right now is, is 461 00:29:54.310 --> 00:29:58.070 muchas gracias, muchas gracias. 462 00:29:58.070 --> 00:30:01.870 Joe to YouTube for everybody who is a subscriber 463 00:30:01.870 --> 00:30:05.070 on substack and YouTube, we'll be back with a few more 464 00:30:05.470 --> 00:30:08.910 questions and answers in our Founders vault. 465 00:30:13.630 --> 00:30:17.230 That's all folks. Find more news, streams, 466 00:30:17.390 --> 00:30:18.550 events and 467 00:30:18.550 --> 00:30:22.880 interviews@www.startuprad.IO. 468 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.200 remember, sharing is car.