Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 60: More Plastic Bag Than Firework

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Ep. 60: More Plastic Bag Than Firework · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: You guys wanna hear a quote? Inspirational? Probably not. Do you ever feel Oh, no. Like a plastic
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: bag floating through the wind,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: wanting to start again. Should I continue? And by that, I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: mean, I feel like Katy Perry was onto something.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: If she just took it a little step further, she could have a whole new song. Do you ever feel worthless, without purpose, floating around like a piece of garbage?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Every time I see a plastic bag, that song lies through my head. Yep. Baby, you're a firework. You know? But that there there's the title.
• 1:18
  Baby, you're a piece of trash. I think that's the wrong message. Baby, hit me one more time. We've already gone off the rails. So in case you didn't hear last week's episode, we are recording this immediately
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: after back to back.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So if we sound exactly the same we're wearing the same clothes, but you can't tell because this is a podcast.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I could take another TikTok.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: If it was a video podcast, I'd have to change my clothes. A video show. But we don't do that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I'm currently wearing a shirt that says hookers.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: She is. From a a fishing store, which is amusing. But I wish it was not from
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a fishing I know. I wish it was just a shirt. What's great
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: is it not only says hookers very clearly on the front, but it's got a whole graphic on the back that also says hookers. So
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: you're Mhmm.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter which way you see her from.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: It's always there. Any way I'm going.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Coming or going. I'm a hooker. No offense. Today today on the We Are More
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: podcast, we can't move past this. I like Skittles. Thank you for that information. We have been surviving on Skittles while we record.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I like Skittles, but not that much.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Well, then I'm glad we've eaten 45 apiece. I haven't had 45. I've had maybe 39. Okay. Here's the problem, boys and girls.
• 2:57
  So the reason we have a ridiculously giant bag of Skittles is because Ridiculous. It is ridiculous It's because we went to the movies the other day. We went and saw Lilo and Stitch. Oh. Oh.
• 3:09
  If you haven't seen it, run. Run to the theaters.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Run fast for your mothers. Fast for your fathers. Run for your sisters and your something and your brothers.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Your sisters and your something and your brothers? Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I wish. But really, like, it's so good. It's so good.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I would call it my favorite live action Disney movie. I specifically say live action because not my favorite
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Disney movie. No. But live action specifically. favorite being Cinderella.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But the little girl who plays Lilo is just the absolute sweetest thing on the planet. And I also feel like, I don't know, the casting was just super good. They did a really good job. But anyway, so my Skittles issue.
• 3:51
  So I tried to order I did a Target order, and I tried to order just like a normal freaking bag of Skittles. But can you order just a normal sized bag of Skittles on the Target app? No, you can't.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: No. You can't.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: They hate me. I hate you. So instead, I had to buy the family sharing sized bag of Skittles, and I had to sit there in the movie theater with my family sharing size bag of Skittles hidden under my blanket so that they wouldn't see it when they brought me more food because I ate everything that they had. And now it's huge and it's sitting here. What do I do with a ridiculous bag of Skittles?
• 4:28
  I ate a whole
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: thing of sour gummy bears.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I know you did. She loves the sour gummy bear, but only the Albanese kind.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The other ones are trash. Not worth my time.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I really don't like gummy bears as a rule, but I do like those one. Not the sour ones. The sour ones are gross. The regular ones.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Aren't you guys glad you know this now? She went on forever. I just kept taking pictures of myself just now. I just wouldn't shut up about a family sized bag of Skittles. Who cares?
• 4:54
  No one cares. Do you ever feel like a floating bag of trash? Do you?
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: No. Not usually. Unless I see a floating bag and I think, I emotionally connect with this floating bag.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Especially right now in my life, I'm just going through a season. Now, could be because my period just started. But I am feeling completely and utterly worthless. I feel like I have no value. I have no talent.
• 5:25
  I have no nothing. I am a piece of floating trash. Wow. Now this very well could be my period. Didn't your periods start today?
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Yep. So the season is today?
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: And yesterday.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Alright. So today is gonna be therapy for Brie.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: But I know that there's other people out there feeling like that. And today, we're talking about I forget what we're talking about. We're talking about limiting beliefs. Limiting beliefs. For example, I know that I'm
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: not a floating bag of trash. Intellectually. Intellectually. But do
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like one? Yeah.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I think everybody has those times in their lives. Mhmm. And sometimes it's circumstantial, like your job sucks or your friendships are struggling, your relationships are struggling, whatever they are. And everybody feels that from time to time. But it's the that inner dialogue
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And how much he let it hit you in a way. Because I think in part of it is growing up. And we'll talk about a little bit of what she how much she says that this comes from the way that you Who
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: is she?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Well, let's see. Circle back. So her name is Natalie Rosado. This is What? I love risotto.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: No. I would have risotto's baby.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: That frightens me on many levels. Mostly that you have refused to birth anything.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine a little risotto baby?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: No. It'd be like one of those adipose babies from
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Doctor Who.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I just watched that episode. Anyway, so she's a blog. And in looking up what we should do for this episode, I look it up just like Christian feminist blogs just to see what everybody else is talking about. What's out there? What's good?
• 7:30
  And so hers popped up when I looked at that. And I really like this from a Christian perspective, but also from that feminist perspective to see, like, you know, where where does it come from? But she talks about how a lot of the way that we speak to ourselves comes from the environment that we grew up in.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: And that's not just your parents. That's also your church. That's also your friends. That's also your school, your siblings, my sibling in particular.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's really hard, especially as a feminist. You feel like you have
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to work twice as hard. Mhmm.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Because you almost don't wanna show any sign of weakness. You wanna show that, like, I've got it covered. And so you put so much pressure on yourself to be productive and be, you know, constantly achieving. Mhmm. But I think it's also really important to know that your value does not come from what you're producing or what you're achieving or what your job is or what your hair looks like.
• 8:33
  Now
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: this is kind of something that applies to you. So you can tell me if I'm fully off base.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Okay. Go
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: ahead. But here's a thought that I have for you in particular. Because as a woman and in the spaces that we find ourselves, you get a lot of times kind of this vibe of like, I wish Brie would get married. And then when she gets married, she can quit her job.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: She can stop working. Which, you know, maybe that's something you would want down the line, but it doesn't have to be. And so I almost feel like for you, it's like I have to have career advancement to show people that my career that I've built myself without a man by my side is valuable.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that could definitely be true.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And I think that's as Christian women, we hear that a lot. And sometimes it's career. Sometimes it's general dreams. It doesn't have to be, like, career based. But your dreams, your career is less significant.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: And so then that really feeds into that self limiting. Even when you move past the more conservative Christianity and you you step into yourself and wanna become, you know, kind of this Christian feminist world Mhmm. It's still there. It still hides. And there's still this little thing at the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: back of your head that's like, I could just sell my feet picks, and then everything would be fine. Or I could go on seeking arrangements and find myself an old rich man. I really hope dad listens to this one.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: So she talks a little bit about learned helplessness. She talks through several different things like attachment theory and anxious attachment style, things like that, to kind of explain why. And you can definitely look this article up. It's Natalie Rosado. Not risotto.
• 10:26
  Her last name is spelled r o s a d o. And the title of the article is liberating yourself from limiting beliefs. But she talks about learned helplessness. And she says the concept was introduced by a psychologist named Martin Seligman. And it explains how repeated exposure to uncontrollable events can make you feel powerless.
• 10:48
  We actually did a whole episode on this. We did. Specifically in this case, this is not just like, I don't wanna do the thing. Mhmm. But I've learned that I can't do the thing.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Enough situations in my life have come about where I feel less than worthy, less intelligent, incapable. And so I'm not even going to try. Mhmm. Because I've made it up in my head that I can't do
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: this thing. I think if we look at it even outside of the Christian sphere because I know any of you that are in the Christian bubble, like, as women, we've all had this stuff going on for us. But even looking outside the Christian sphere, because of the way women are often treated in the workforce Mhmm. As less than as having to fight twice as hard to have the same level of respect as their male male colleagues to get to the next level.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I've seen it personally just the way that they treat like, people treat male doctors versus female doctors is totally different. Mhmm. Even though they have the same degree Right. Same, you know, experience. Mhmm.
• 11:59
  It's just interesting to see that. Mhmm.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Because of all of those things, because we've had repeated negative exposure Mhmm. Over and over and over again through childhood, through college.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Through just, like, media, through movies, TV shows, music. Yep. The way women are portrayed and treated. Mhmm. You're learning.
• 12:22
  Right. Mhmm.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: And so what does that do to that little voice in your head that says, I just can't. Mhmm. I don't have the skill set. It's like we've said before, women won't apply for a job until they're fully qualified, but men will apply when they're, like, minimally qualified. Mhmm.
• 12:41
  And it's not that it's a bad thing that the men are applying when they're minimally qualified. It's a
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: bad thing that women aren't. Because women who are confident are called names Mhmm.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: That we won't say here because our mother will cry. Yes.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I almost said it.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We just are constantly taught that that we're not enough. Mhmm. That just being who we are, living life in a body of boobs, it's just not as important. Mhmm.
• 13:17
  And so it it tells the little voice in our head to say things back to us like that. Mhmm. You're not good enough. You're not important enough. You're not smart enough.
• 13:26
  You're not you know, and fill in the blank. We all have those little things that particularly trigger us because that little voice gets real specific. Mhmm. And it tells you exactly what you suck at to get you, to push your buttons. She also talks about how socialization causes this.
• 13:49
  So the way that women are socialized versus the way that men are socialized. She says that women societally are taught to be passive, nurturing, and self sacrificing. I could definitely see that. And those things limit ambitions and self worth. If you're told to be passive, it becomes a lot harder to go out into, like, a competitive career field.
• 14:14
  Mhmm. If you're taught to be nurturing, then it becomes a lot harder to argue with your boss for a better wage.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: If you're taught to be self sacrificing, then it's pretty difficult to say I deserve this new job over and above my colleague. And then she does talk also about media and how you look at like you can see both sides of the coin. On the one hand, you do have like the the fifties style mom who wears the skirt and is perfect, but her life is super happy. She's always great. She's never unhappy with anything that goes on even though she seems to have a miserable life.
• 14:55
  You know?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Until she eventually has a breakdown.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Or you see this idealized career woman who has it all and everything's everything's still perfect for her, just on the flip side. Mhmm. And so if you compare yourself to either of those two ideals Mhmm. You're never gonna live up.
• 15:14
  Then the little boy starts talking again and saying, don't try for anything. Mhmm. Don't live bigger. Just stop here because here is
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: safe. Don't try for the promotion because here is safe. I think something else kind of off topic that happens with women is this idea of hyper independence.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: So you are so averse to asking for help because you think asking for help means that you're weak and you don't wanna show weakness. So you do crazy things by yourself. Unnecessary things by yourself without asking for help. And that will fry you too. Mhmm.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's two major extremes here. And it seems like we're not supposed to live somewhere in the middle, but the middle is where you wanna be. Mhmm. You wanna live in that middle where you can do things on your own because you're strong and you're smart and you're fully capable of doing those things.
• 16:17
  Women are incredibly resilient. They're rubber band.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Can stand up in the
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: face of so much crap Mhmm. And handle it with strength, but also with grace. You know? Mhmm. And yet we can also depend on other people.
• 16:36
  And that's okay. So Natalie continues on talking about systems of oppression. And she talks about two specifically, not that there aren't many, many more, but she specifically highlights two. And one of them is capitalism, which is really interesting. So in Western society but, I mean, globally, there's plenty of spaces where capitalism is is the thing.
• 16:59
  It's what we do. And there's an emphasis there on competition and individual success. Exactly what you said. Mhmm. Hyper independent.
• 17:08
  I can only succeed if I succeed all by myself. Mhmm. And if I leaned on anybody else to get there, I either need to a, crush them so that they can't tell anyone that I leaned on them. Or b, I can't feel like I like I really did it. Which is interesting because there was an article I read a couple of weeks ago from
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: one of our podcasts that said the most successful women out there in the workforce and the most financially successful women are women who have like a close group of female friends and coworkers supporting each other.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So people who you can ask for help. Mhmm. People who you can ask for advice or you can just vent to or who can push you, you know, give you that confidence to ask for that raise.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And here's why. Because you're great. Because it's people see you differently than you see yourself.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Right. And sometimes you need that. You need people to say like, no. No. No.
• 18:08
  Stop talking negative about yourself or whatever it is. Or maybe they need
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to bring you down a peg.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: People to build you up. And those women are the most financially successful,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the ones who have that group of people to support them. Well, we talked a couple of weeks ago about divorce rates and how women specifically tend to have that tight group of friends and men don't tend to have that tight group of friends.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: And I think that's an advantage that women have. And I think we should start raising our boys to have tight groups of friends. But currently in society
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's an advantage that women have that we can lean on each other because when that horrible little voice in your head starts talking to you and telling you all the crappy things about yourself, you have someone to look at you and say, none of that's true. Mhmm. If you're just you and you don't it's just a merry-go-round of terrible.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And take a look at those friends in your life. Like, are they encouraging you? Are they bringing you up? Are they listening to you?
• 19:10
  Do they know anything about you? Great. If they don't, maybe they're not your people.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I think you'll know when you find your people. Like, there's just that sense of safety.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You can just, like, truly be yourself. Like, I'm a weird person. I am genuinely very strange. And there are people in my life that know that.
• 19:31
  Mhmm.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And there are people that don't. Mhmm. Well, and you know too. You know who you can be you around. Mhmm.
• 19:38
  And that's not, oh, I need to kick all the other people out of my life. But you know that those aren't your people.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: No. They can still be in your life depend you know, depending on what your boundaries are. But just know what you can share with them. Right. And what information you needed to, you know, leave with them.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So she says that capitalism in particular, it also often overlooks the structural barriers that can prevent equal access to opportunities. So things like gender, things like race, like the walls that get put up to say you don't have the ability, you don't have the education, whatever
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: To succeed. Mhmm. You didn't have the same opportunities that someone else had. Yeah. And capitalism doesn't account for that.
• 20:24
  And so if you have some of those inequalities in your past and your background, capitalism sucks. Like, it becomes really difficult unless you have all the same advantages. Mhmm. So then she also talks about our favorite word, patriarchy. Our favorite p word.
• 20:43
  And it says she says patriarchy perpetuates gender based limitations, dictating what women can and cannot achieve. It promotes the idea that women should prioritize family and caregiving over personal ambitions, limiting their professional and personal growth. And I think we we talked a lot about professionals. So I also wanna talk about that personal growth Mhmm. Aspect.
• 21:05
  Because women are expected to care give for their families in particular, so often they also give up community.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: They also give up hobbies. They give up many, many things. You'll look at I remember Kristen Bell. She posted something several years ago now. And it was a picture of her golfing on Mother's Day.
• 21:27
  And she said, I'm having a Father's Day style Mother's Day. And it was it went everywhere. People were it was very divisive. But essentially, she was saying men get to have hobbies, take breaks. She was specifically saying on Father's Day men will go golfing because it's their it's their break day.
• 21:46
  Like they're taking a break. Nothing wrong with that. But then on Mother's Day women are expected to stay home and hang out with the kids, spend their day, you know, with their family, whatever.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Sidetrack, I get really frustrated with the idea of for Father's Day, mothers are putting in effort and making sure that their kids are celebrating their fathers or doing something to recognize their fathers. And not enough fathers are putting in the same effort for Mother's Day. They say, well, I'm not your kid.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: The kids are supposed to do something. Yeah. But you're also a parent.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And you're this person's partner.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You should also be celebrating. Right.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: They're worthy of being celebrated. Celebrate them. Quit being a jerk. If you care about someone else, there's no reason to not celebrate them. If you have an excuse to celebrate the person that you care about, that's amazing.
• 22:41
  Take that excuse. Do something fun.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Do something that all of you think is fun that you know she's gonna enjoy. Not just that you do because you feel bad or you do because you think that's what you're supposed to do, but something that you know because you're this person's partner. Mhmm. You know them well enough to say this is what you would enjoy. Yeah.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And I hope that we can empower women enough to say, like, that's not okay. Mhmm. And to talk to your spouse about it and say, hey. You hurt my feelings today, and here's why. Yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I think all of that plays back into this, into what she says. It promotes the idea that women should prioritize family and caregiving over personal ambitions. Mhmm. Patriarchy does not emphasize that men should prioritize family or caregiving. No.
• 23:27
  So all of that plays back into it. If women are supposed to prioritize the family, then, of course, on Father's Day, she's gonna prioritize her husband and his happiness
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And and want him to have a great day. Right? But if he's never been taught to prioritize her, then on Mother's Day,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: what is he going to do? Mhmm.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: He just doesn't know how
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: to function. The amount return is said to breathe.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: The amount of men the night before Mother's Day in Target in the card section. That's one of my favorite things. I love Valentine's Day.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Mother's Day. Just look at the card aisle.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: And people watch. Like, go get yourself a Starbucks and park your little booty in a makeup aisle across from the cards.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: And just stare at them panicking.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: And like with a smirk.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Judging. And it's funny too because you'll see and I I use this comparison without any research behind it. This is just my personal observations. But when you watch women looking for cards for Father's Day, you'll see women taking a lot of time.
• 24:33
  They read a bunch of different cards. They select their favorite one. You know, the cost isn't super significant. They take the time to find something meaningful.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Whereas, again, when I've watched and I do this more often than you would think. But when I've watched men in Target picking out Mother's Day cards, it's like, pick up the one, look at the price, maybe glance inside it, and go to the flower aisle and pick up a bouquet.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: And then It's because we're not teaching the men in our lives to care. Mhmm. Like, they're checking a box Mhmm. Because it's something that they should do. But again, women are conditioned to care.
• 25:16
  Mhmm.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Well, think of what she's saying here. If women should prioritize family, then in this structure, men shouldn't. Not just that they don't. Not just that they aren't expected to, but that they shouldn't.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: That in this patriarchal world, men are supposed to prioritize their jobs over their families. Otherwise, they're not man enough. They are supposed to prioritize it so that they get the promotion, so that they make more money, so that their family can live better lives. But then they don't turn around and prioritize the relationships.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And I know we've said this like the past several podcasts, but anything considered feminine Mhmm. They view as weakness. Mhmm. So if women are caring, emotionally caring, that is weakness. Mhmm.
• 26:07
  So they shouldn't care as much. Mhmm. Because it makes them more manly. Mhmm.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I watch a TikToker, and I can't remember what his handle is. But he essentially like, he's making fun of all of the really stereotypical patriarchal stuff. But it is tough to watch because he'll come in. And he did one on Mother's Day. And he it's just like a full, like, little scene or whatever.
• 26:32
  And he comes in and he's in theory talking to his wife and he's on the phone with his mom. And he's like, honey, when are we going over to my mom's today? And you can hear like his mom talking in the background or whatever. And his wife was like, well, I thought we'd spend today here at home, you know, with the kids. And his mom's like, what?
• 26:51
  Why would she think you weren't coming over here? I have three courses ready and blah blah blah blah blah. And he's like, no. We we have to go over to my mom's. My mom wants us over there.
• 27:00
  And she's like, well, I I wanted to stay here, but I really can't go right now. And so he goes, well, mom, we have to stay for a little while because she has to clean the kitchen. And she the mom goes like, why? Well, why wasn't the kitchen clean before? Why didn't she clean the kitchen?
• 27:18
  And he goes, well, the kids and I made breakfast in bed for her. And we made a little bit of them. And it's it's so cringey. It's really tough to watch. But he's, like, making fun of it.
• 27:28
  But this is real stuff.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Real life.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. This is real life. Expect more. Expect more.
• 27:35
  Demand more. Oof. For anyone that you let in your life. Mhmm. Not just a partner.
• 27:42
  Literally anyone you let in your life as a woman. Mhmm. As a man. As anyone. As a person.
• 27:48
  Only let people in that are for you. Mhmm.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: And that's not to say that people are perfect all the time. No. But communicate to those people and let them know what your expectations are because you teach people how to treat you. And if you allow constantly
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: crap Mhmm.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: You're gonna keep getting crap. Mhmm.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest aspect of self limiting beliefs can often be your partner. Like, I don't deserve
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: more than this. Because I think women are kind of conditioned to believe that they don't hold a lot
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: of value.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And so that they don't deserve being treated well. Mhmm.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: When you absolutely do, and you don't have to earn that. I'm watching, in real time countless marriages around me Mhmm. Where the male partner is just just not caring at all. Mhmm. Not there for his spouse at all.
• 29:01
  Like, not even the most minimal bit. And I look at what that does to the woman.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I look at how it impacts her mental health. How it impacts how she views herself. What she can do with her life. Mhmm. The way that she interacts with other people.
• 29:21
  The way that she interacts with her kids. And it's horrifying. Or as a single person, people are constantly coming at you and saying like, don't you want this? Isn't this great? Don't you love not being loved?
• 29:41
  And there's really no part
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of me right now that says that's better than being alone. Mhmm. Because we've said before, you have to since I'm single, you have to compete with how much I wanna be alone. You have to compete with the care that I give myself. Mhmm.
• 30:00
  You have to be better than that. Mhmm. And we're not telling men specifically right now that they need to be anything more than just financially providing. And a lot of them aren't doing that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. They say that men get a lot more value out of marriage than women do. Mhmm. Because men get an emotional confidant. They get someone often, depending on the type of marriage you have, but often the woman is expected to do more of the household things.
• 30:34
  So cooking, cleaning, etcetera. They get someone to potentially have their children. They get someone to, like, care for them in a way. And none of that is wrong if all of those things are, you know, split equally. But the flip side is not necessarily true.
• 30:50
  Sometimes it is, but it's not as often true for the woman to be able to expect of the man to have an emotional confidant.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: To have someone to share all those household duties with.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: To have someone to share the finances with. Things like that.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: A man says, oh, my wife is my best friend.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Because you think about that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: She probably knows everything about him. Mhmm. She knows his favorite color. She knows what's going on with his work, with his work friends, with his family, with his kids, with everything involved in his life, she knows.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Does he know the same about her? Mhmm.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Probably not. He probably does not know her favorite color, or what's going on in her work life, or her personal life, her friends, her, you know, favorite of XYZ. So a woman is a lot less likely to say that her husband is her best friend, because of course he's not. If he doesn't spend any time listening to her or caring about her, expect more.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And why in that world and they say women are not getting married. Now that also makes the flip true. Men are also not getting married at a higher rate. But women are choosing not to get married at a significantly higher rate than has ever happened before.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: This is why we have taken the conditioning of men to a whole new level. We are raising our boys to be strong and masculine and whatever to such a weird, unhealthy degree.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And then podcasts and politics and all these other things are conditioning young boys to be the same.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And women are looking at
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: it and we're like, well, you know, that sounds terrible.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm out.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: No. Thanks. And like we said before, we are in a position in society now where women can say no. Mhmm. They don't have to solely depend on a man to provide financially for them.
• 32:49
  They can say, even though it's going to be harder because you don't have that dual income, I'd rather have it be a little bit harder. But emotionally, I'm better off. Right.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I can buy all the books I want and no one can stop me.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: No one's stopping me right now. I bought six last week
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: while she was driving at one point. We
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: don't tell people that. I'm so sorry.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: You get in trouble. The car was stopped.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Honestly.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: So Natalie then goes on to talk about, like, things that you can do to to help. To help you with these self limiting beliefs.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And obviously, like, their conditionedness from many different avenues, from the Christian church, from society, from work, from all these places. But she says, of all, to recognize the spiritual battle. That as people of faith, POFs, I think that's plenty of fish. The dating app. People of faith.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But also plenty of fish. There's lots of POFs.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: So to recognize that this is not just something that's happening to us because people suck.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: It's also happening to us because one of the best ways for us to turn from God to stop having the same level of faith is for us to start doubting ourselves and everything that we are.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Do you ever feel Oh, no. Like a plastic bag?
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So then the next one is to embrace your god given identity. So she talks about, like, Psalm one thirty nine fourteen where it says, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. It doesn't say, note, men, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. It says, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. You are a child of God and his plans for you are good.
• 34:41
  That's Jeremiah twenty nine eleven. So you as a person are what God calls you.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really good exercise too, is to write that stuff down. Like, maybe write down all the things that you are telling yourself. Mhmm. And then write down what God says about you. I actually wrote that down in grandma's journal.
• 35:04
  All of the things that God says you are and the verses. Mhmm. And focus on that for a while. Meditate on that. Because you're right.
• 35:12
  You're fearfully and wonderfully made. You are forgiven. Mhmm.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You are fierce and beautiful. I don't think the Bible says fierce technically, but I'm sure you could get a translation that says it. In the Gen Z translation. I love it.
• 35:25
  Probably. I think you have to assume too. We don't believe that God lies. Right?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Right. And if I guess if you do, that's a different one. But
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: we don't believe that God lies to us. And so if you look through the Bible and you see all of these things that God says, not just about men. He's not saying them to men. He's saying them to his people. Mhmm.
• 35:51
  He looked at his creation and said It's good. It's good. He looked at women and called us warriors. He called us amazing things. He didn't call us terrible.
• 36:05
  He didn't call us inept. He didn't say you are capable of nothing. Mhmm. We tell ourselves that because we live in a broken world.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he didn't say you're not allowed to make mistakes. Mhmm. Look at Adam and Eve. Whoops.
• 36:21
  Something happened there. Whoops. Whoops. But God still provided for them and cared for them and gave them
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: a future. Gave all of us a future even though we made a mistake. It's like we talked about was it this episode? Last episode? About conditional versus unconditional love.
• 36:42
  Conditional love says, I love you if you do the things I tell you to do. Unconditional love says, I love you no matter what you
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: do. Mhmm.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: As parents, unconditional love is what we should be giving our children. As people, unconditional love is what we should be giving the people that we let into our sphere.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: God gives us unconditional love. So yeah. It doesn't matter what mistakes we make. It doesn't matter how many millions of times we screw up. Because we're people.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. That's real. I don't expect everybody in my life to be without fault. Mhmm. I'm without fault.
• 37:21
  But but no. Allow allow for that. Mhmm. But when we make mistakes, we're supposed to correct them too. We're not supposed to keep making the same mistake over and over.
• 37:36
  Which we sometimes do. Sometimes we do. What do you learn from it? Not a lot. I don't know.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: So then she talks about transforming your mind, which I think is a really tough one. But this one, I think there are good steps toward. Now she talks about in Romans where it says that we're called to be transformed and renew our minds. And then she talks about how that requires action. You're supposed to meditate on God's word.
• 38:02
  All of these are good things. However, she says when limiting beliefs arise, counter them with scripture. I think that's a great thing. That being said, I also think things like therapy are really important. If you find yourself in that shame spiral, hearing all of these negative words all the time for any reason, go see a therapist.
• 38:26
  Mhmm. Not an unqualified Christian therapist. I'm I'm what what is this called?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Air I'm air quoting.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: But you can't see it again because podcast. There's a TikTok about that. Yeah. But go to someone that's qualified. Go to someone that has a degree.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Go to someone outside your bubble too. Yeah. Like, not just someone in your church or in your workspace. Go to someone unbiased Mhmm. Unconnected to everybody else around you so that they can really speak some truth
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to you. If you are in The United States, there is a law that says your insurance has to cover some level of therapy. It might not be unlimited therapy, but look into it. It's so important. And if you are yeah.
• 39:12
  If you're having these really difficult thoughts like that, even if it's just for a short period, even if it's just situational Mhmm. Like, hey, I lost my job and I'm having a lot of negative thoughts about myself. Talk to somebody. Mhmm. If you are having really intense shameful thoughts and you feel the need to call 911, do that.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: As someone who has friends in your life, if you're watching other people go through this, sit with them. Talk to them. Push them towards therapy. Push them towards talking to a professional. Let them know
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: that you're there for them not just physically Mhmm. But emotionally. Give them a text. Say, I'm thinking about you. You're doing good.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, hey, I haven't seen you in a while. I wanted to check-in.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Because we can when we live by ourselves, yeah, like, we can isolate ourselves really quickly.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Ugh. I'm good at that.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: You live with me. I'm good
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: at that.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: She then talks about the power of community. So we obviously, we're talking about that right now, but she says Hebrews ten twenty four through 25 urges us to spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together. Now a lot of Christians will look at that and say, that means we need to go to church. We need to be in church. I'm not saying that church doesn't have its place and isn't a good thing in some scenarios.
• 40:32
  But I think that right there isn't just talking about going to church. It's talking about finding community. Mhmm. Finding people who build you up. Oftentimes, it's a great thing to have people who share the same belief structures as you.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should exclusively hang out with people that have the same belief structures as you because then you're in an echo chamber. But that can be good too. Like, be in community. Find the safe people.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Find your people. People who have shared interests. People who are different.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: People who are tall. People who
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: are small. I'm of a people who are
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: small. I'm a gazelle.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And then the last one that I kinda wanna talk about is she says step out in faith. And I think she's specifically talking about, like, step into God's promises, live into what what God has asked you to do. I think all those things are important. But I'm taking this a little bit of a different way and to say, in order to help yourself, help others.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I've seen so many people that focus so much on their own pain, on their own little world, that it just it becomes too much. It becomes too difficult. Whereas when you step out and you see what other people are experiencing, whether that's through volunteer work Mhmm. Whether it's through talking to friends, things like that. Once you get out of your little bubble and you see the rest of the world and how the rest of the world operates, sometimes your world doesn't seem quite so bad.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like it does something to your soul Mhmm. To be able to, yeah, just help others, whether that's volunteering at a food pantry or at a women's shelter or whatever that is. Think about, like, giving a gift to someone with nothing expected in return, just how good that makes you feel. There's nothing bad about that. Mhmm.
• 42:28
  If it makes you feel good and it's helping someone else Mhmm. Wonderful. Yeah. Go do
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: that. Yeah. And it gives you it gives you a whole different outlook on life. Mhmm. To interact with people.
• 42:41
  To and this isn't like a superiority thing to look and say like, well, look how much better I'm doing than this person. Mhmm. But to say, I'm going to use my resources, whether that's financially, whether it's your time, whether it's sitting with someone and being there for them emotionally, to say, I have something to give. Mhmm. And so I'm going to give it.
• 43:03
  And I I think a lot of times we look at this as like people often think that they can only do charity work and things like that once they have the money to do it. Like Mhmm. Oh, I can only give once I have a bunch of money. But there's so much that you can give. You can give of your time.
• 43:18
  You can give of your of the extra food that you make. You know, whatever. Like, hey, I've got a bunch of canned goods that I didn't use. Whatever it is. There's a million different ways to give or praying for people.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: So I think that's that's how I see step out in faith to, like and she talks about Philippians one six that says step out boldly, knowing that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion. So step out into the world in a big, bold, scary, scary way. Be strong. Be bold. Be scary.
• 43:51
  Oh.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not bad at shirt.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: You say that all the time. We should have so many shirts.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We should have our own clothing line. But that's great. Be bold and be scary.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you gotta be scary. Yeah. And sometimes your scary will scare off the right people. Yeah. And sometimes your scary will give comfort to other people.
• 44:10
  Mhmm. It's how I live my life. Scary.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I look at you, and I'm terrified.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Good. That's really my goal. Alright. So I think we're gonna wrap it up there. We actually have some really exciting things coming up.
• 44:26
  I'm not quite gonna announce them yet because they're not all confirmed. We have some exciting guests coming up hopefully in the near future. Yeah. So stay tuned for the rest of well, for forever. Stay tuned forever.
• 44:36
  Never leave us.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Stay tuned forever. And go back and listen to all of our other podcasts.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Literally everyone. I think this is this might be episode 60. What? I know.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Holy cow. You've got some catching up to do. Hours and hours
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: of
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: just So prepare
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: yourself for a whole another hour next week of I don't know what yet. Pie? An hour of pie? We could talk about that. We could talk about couples.
• 45:10
  TV and book couples. Yeah. We've been wanting to do some episodes on the terrible examples of relationships on TV because I've been watching Friends, and I wanna kill Ross on a big level.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: And how that affects, you know, how we view relationships. Mhmm. Because that's the media we're consuming. Yeah. I love it.
• 45:31
  Well, prepare yourselves for
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: that next weekend. Alright. We'll talk to you then. Bye. Love you.
• 45:36
  Bye.