Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Matt Eisenacher (First Watch, The Piada Group, Abbott Nutrition): Modelling Priorities for Your Team, Embracing Adversity & Individualized Leadership and Parenting #035

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Matt Eisenacher (First Watch, The Piada Group, Abbott Nutrition): Modelling Priorities for Your Team, Embracing Adversity & Individualized Leadership and Parenting #035 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Matt Eisenacher: I just realized I'm making much more of a mess of this for the team and it's causing them to rethink things, especially when it comes to creative. Everyone's got an opinion. We eventually took the creative meetings off of my place. If you, if you're always steering the team towards that, you're going to lose the creativity in decision making. And it is not bad for a team to fail.
• 0:17
  Kevin Rice: Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. My guest today is Matt Eisenacher, chief Brand officer at First Watch, where he's helped lead the company through an IPO and from 200 to over 500 store locations. Today we dive into how to be a leader of leaders in C suite and the importance of attuning to the unique needs and personalities of our employees at the office and our kids at home. Matt shares the importance of modeling behaviors. We want to see the supportive role his wife has played in championing his career and how youth sports is one of the greatest systems for teaching kids leadership. This is a conversation about resilience, psychological safety, and the importance of being proactive and honest during difficult conversations.
• 0:56
  Matt Eisenacher: People want to be empowered. They want to know that they have autonomy. And I think the best way to to guide that is making sure you set a strong vision. There were some tendencies of where you're wearing multiple hats in your again, your fingers in the dirt. And now you have to become a leader of leaders.
• 1:13
  Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Matt, thank you so much for being here today.
• 1:27
  Matt Eisenacher: It's awesome seeing you again, man. It's been a long time.
• 1:30
  Kevin Rice: It has been a long time. I think pre Pandemic was the last time we got face to face. So it's great to see you and I appreciate you joining.
• 1:37
  Matt Eisenacher: Well, thanks for reaching out and thinking of me.
• 1:39
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. So today you're the chief Brand officer at First Watch. This is a company that's had an incredible run since going public a handful of years ago. But prior to joining First Watch, you and your family lived in Ohio. And last time I talked to you, you were describing life in Ohio as pret to perfect dream house, family nearby, great neighbors, everything you could kind of want in the American dream. And then you get this opportunity at First Watch and you moved your entire family to Florida. So I want to start there. What was that experience like for you? And especially for your family, because it's a big transition.
• 2:18
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah. I mean, there's been a couple points in my career that have been big pivot points and transformations. That was definitely one of them. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I was going to be seven years Floridian, I would have told you you were a liar. My wife and I still laugh that. That. That we've been in Florida now this long, and you're right, we had what we would say is a darn near perfect family life in Ohio. We grew up there. Our parents are still there. We have siblings there. And to your point, we. We had to build our dream house. We had our families on the other side, kids have, you know, friends in the neighborhood. And, you know, I was going through my career and. And, you know, I just decided it was, you know, time to. To move on and try something new. And long story short, I had a friend of mine that said, would you ever consider moving your family to Florida? And I was like, oh, absolutely not. No, I'm not moving to Florida. It's like doing an expat assignment, going. Going to Florida. But anyway, he said, well, actually, it's first watch. And I remember just going, oh, man. Because I. I knew. I knew Ken, our founder. He was on our board, and I knew the tremendous things that were going on at first watch. It's funny because we talk about family, right? And I remember when I first told my wife, she had the same reaction. She was like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Because you're going to go there, you're going to love it. They're going to love you. And what I told them at that time is when I came to interview for the first time, I said, if I'm going to come the first time, even to meet the team, I want my wife to come. And I'm kind of shortening the whole story a little bit, but, you know, she went out to look at houses, and I met the team here, and we. I got back in the car, literally looked right at each other, go, shit. Because she had been going to look at the beach. But more importantly, and this is kind of the crux I wanted to get to with first watch. I met the people here, and, you know, I think you've worked in the restaurant industry. It's not for the faint of heart. And there's a lot of bold personalities in the restaurant industry, and sometimes it's hard to find those just genuine people that are kind, work for each other, work as a team. And I. And I mean, it that one day when I met the team here, I just, I just knew that it was a circumstance that was very rare in the restaurant industry. And that was, that was literally the main reason. And there are plenty of other benefits, but that was the main reason we decided to end up making that choice.
• 4:35
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. A great organization, great leadership team, and just really amazing values across the organization, how they truly embody the spirit of hospitality. It's been quite the rocket ship. Well, now you've been at First Watch for, I think about seven years. You mentioned the first year was pretty hard. I imagine, kind of moving into a new role. This company that's growing like crazy. When you step into that next level of a leadership role, it really requires you to change how you carry yourself and how you approach the role of being a leader and not just like working harder. So I'm curious, how are you a different leader today than you were kind of on day one at First Watch?
• 5:15
  Matt Eisenacher: So much has changed. It's a really, really good question because I would view myself as very different, and I have had to accommodate, you know, my role and my leadership style differently. Like when, when I first joined, we were in a place where we were kind of building the traditional marketing function, so a lot had to be built and we had to grow the team. You know, I, I was, I had my fingers in the dirt, you know, a lot of things. Like I worked at Pia De and Street Food before and great brand. I, I joined there. And there's 16 restaurants. So it's, it was, you know, basically a startup. And when I came here, there were some tendencies of that where they're kind of the same, where, you know, you're wearing multiple hats and you're. You got again, your fingers in the dirt. You're doing a lot of this stuff, I think. Fast forward now to your question. And now you have to become a leader of leaders. And I feel super blessed that a lot of those people we brought on the team are still with us. We have really, really great tenure here at First Watch and on our team as well. And a lot of those people now have been here for a long time. They know the stuff. Not, not even better than me. They just know everything so much better. They've gone through so many reps. They know First Watch, they're super talented. And I think it's starting to learn that your role becomes about one, being a leader of leaders and letting them thrive and, and, and really decide what's best for their area. And number two, your job becomes much more about setting the vision and, and maybe not the fun side of accountability as well. So, you know, you, you have to be able to create a picture for people that inspires them and make them excited. If you have the team where you have really capable leaders, well, then it's just about kind of, I always say, I try to say it as much as I can, is what can I do to help? They don't need you to do it, but every once in a while they might need a little bit of like, hey, I just need to talk through this. You know, you hear a lot. Okay, cool. But the last thing you need to do with really capable people is say, well, this is the way it should be done, because that's not very motivating for them. So we've grown the team to a pretty considerable size. It's something that I've had to learn.
• 7:08
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. What are some of the things you've had to let go of? So as you continue ascending your career, there's new responsibilities, new approaches, but you also have to start letting go of some things like bad habits or maybe more tactical things. What are some things you've had to let go of to allow yourself to grow as a leader?
• 7:25
  Matt Eisenacher: I hope my team hears this because they'll get a good laugh out of this. But like, you know, on the market side, like, I love, I love creative. You know, I love. We used to have these meetings where we'd all come together and review the creative for, you know, different campaigns or whatever we're doing. It was like a once a week meeting. I just. That was like my thing, you know, you kind of riff and get the opinions out there. You're kind of evolving things. And then eventually I just realized, like, I'm, I'm making much more of a mess of this for the team and it's causing them to have to rethink things. And they had already put some thought into things, in my opinion, especially when it comes to creative. Like everyone's got an opinion. There's not always the right one. So I, I had to realize, you know, and then we eventually took the creative meetings off of my, off of my plate. So that's the one that, that comes to mind the most. But they'll get a good laugh out of that.
• 8:10
  Kevin Rice: That's funny. At some point you just have to completely remove yourself if you know yourself well enough and you're like, there's no way I can sit in this meeting without giving input and without getting involved, especially with your title. When you give an idea or suggestion, sometimes it can become a directive when you don't actually mean it to be. You're just giving some feedback, but then all of a sudden the rest of this is the most senior person in the room. We gotta take what they say and do it. And that can kind of mess up the flow of the like brainstorming.
• 8:42
  Matt Eisenacher: It's totally true. And I'm thinking of a couple particular meetings that come to mind that I realized that once I open my mouth then the meeting becomes about you. Because to your point, everyone thinks, well, this person has to be happy and it's the absolute worst thing that you can do. And so definitely along with that idea of empowering the leaders is learning when to speak up and when to not. And the other thing like I think is really important as you become a leader is like realizing that it's okay, your team does need to fail at times. There will times you will, you will be certain that you know the answer. But if, if you, if you're always steering the team towards that, you're going to lose the creativity and decision making. And it is not bad for a team to fail. You know, there have been different times as you, as you bring new people in and there's maybe, you know, silos or people being a little protective, which is natural when that happens, encouraging them to go work it out. And sometimes you need to get involved, but I think not always seeing yourself as the solution. But you're more the enabler for your team.
• 9:44
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. How do you, how do you create that like psychological safety for your team to feel like it's okay to try new things and fail? But at the same time, this is a business. There are certain things that need to be done right. So how do you give them the guardrails and freedom to try new things? Fail. But then what do you say? This is something we can't fail.
• 10:06
  Matt Eisenacher: I think the times when like in my mind I'm sitting there thinking, okay, I really think this is wrong. I think, I really think you need to be a little heavier handed. My approach would be less to like go sit down at a table and be like, no, I think you're wrong, we're going to do it this way. Ultimately, I think it's better the more people you bring into the decision because ultimately if you create a forum where people are allowed to challenge one another, someone else in that room is going to challenge that thing where you can start to get to what is best for the team. And I think one of the things I'm, I'm proud of in the way we've built this team is that try really hard not to have super hard reporting relationships now. Of course we do. You know. Of course we do. Making sure people realize that in marketing, I don't have to belabor the fact that it's like completely changed over the last five and 10 years and the amount of different specialties and platforms and algorithms. You have a person on your team that's an expert in all of those. And so whatever your challenge, your challenge is you take that different specialist or skill set and you layer them over one another depending on the challenge that you have to achieve. And so I get really excited because we have some remote people and I see people on screens teams and you always see different people in part of different scrums depending on what they're trying to do. And I think once you create that kind of culture, it doesn't just become about, well, this part of the team says this and that's, you know, against this silo over here. It's just personalities that are representing different lenses of the marketing universe. And I think that coupled with the idea of being willing to challenge and have disagreements, ultimately the things get to where they need to go, if that makes any sense.
• 11:51
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, sure. And I feel like there's a lot of natural overlap or transition between what you just talked about in how we create safety, give people space, allow them to learn from each other. That's also something I'm hearing from you. And there's a lot of commonalities of how we try to show up at home for our kids, thinking about when to let them fail, when the stakes are too high and you have to give them more directive. How does this all show up for you as a, as a dad raising three kids? So maybe tell us a little bit about your family and then kind of how, how do you incorporate this thinking into how you are raising your children?
• 12:32
  Matt Eisenacher: It's funny, Kevin. I, you know, I, I honestly did not make that parallel to. You just said it. It's so true. Like each person on your team is motivated and works differently and it couldn't be more true when it comes to kids. So Yes, I have three. I have a 17 year old, a 15 year old and a 12 year old. And to his two girls, boy in the middle and holy moly, as anyone would say, are their personalities so incredibly different. And so I guess we view them and their growth as like we, we try to just keep them off the couch our evenings. Like a lot of parents are on some different sports field. I, I could go through all the different things that they're involved in. But ultimately, when you see them go through really intense competition, which they all do, you see so much about their personality, and you have to start to realize that you can challenge them, but sometimes when you challenge too hard, they'll. They'll just give in. And I'll give you an example of my. My son recently. He. He played tennis in middle school and was a newer sport to him, right. And he was going to high school, and he found out there was a varsity tennis team and he was going to go try out. And at the last minute, he started. He started saying, well, wait a minute, I. I'm a freshman. I'm never going to make the tennis team. I've only been playing for two years. Well, he goes, and he actually made the varsity tennis team. And it was a lesson. I kind of said to him, like, look, you were going to give up, and here you are now. He's super into it. He's super competitive. He puts in a ton of the work off the court, but it's one of those things really fulfilling to watch him learn. And so I think sports is a natural model for them to learn leadership and how failure isn't always a bad thing.
• 14:12
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I mean, that's something I try to work with my son on.
• 14:14
  Matt Eisenacher: He.
• 14:14
  Kevin Rice: He quit two sports, he quit soccer. He quit basketball. He's trying baseball right now, and he just hasn't really found his thing. And so one of the things I've troubled. So my. My oldest son is nine. And so I always struggle to find that right blend of, like, allowing him to just try new things, to find his own passion. But then also, do I need to push him to try a little bit longer before he gives up? But at the same time, I don't want to force him into something that he just doesn't enjoy doing, which then prevents him from finding something he does enjoy doing.
• 14:45
  Matt Eisenacher: Well, there's still hope because you literally just said the. The journey for my son. He was always very talented in sports, but he would. He would start out really strong, and then as the competition got fiercer, he'd kind of pull back a little bit. He kept wanting to try different sports. Ironically, here he was. He made his way into football for the first time in eighth grade. And Kevin, he had one coach who absolutely. His first goal was to teach him how to be a man and how to never give up and to put in the discipline. And my son worked his butt off, and it really saw him start to become a leader. And it completely transformed him. And it was just very cool to see because he had one coach who made a difference with him not teaching the game of football, which he did, but the amount of discipline and the bar he held them to is now what I see kind of infiltrate my son and the rest of his life. And when we go watch him play tennis now, his coaches all marvel at the competitive nature that came from that experience in football. So you never know. Just give him a couple more years.
• 15:45
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, well, and that's great that he got that perspective from another male authority figure. Right. Like, as parents, we bring so much to our kids, but at the same time, it's really great to get another perspective because you can't be everything to everyone. And so whether it's coaches or teachers or different activities that they do, or maybe it's even it's your friends who are active in your kids lives, Getting different perspectives is so important for shaping them more holistically.
• 16:16
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah, my. It's a similar with my old. My. My oldest, Ashley. So Ashley has played lacrosse since second grade, and her mom was a D1 lacrosse athlete. And so her mom was always her coach until she got to high school, and then she had to have other coaches. And it's been a great experience for her. But it was without a doubt a shift because different expectations, you know, you can't roll your eyes, you know, like you do with your mom on the way home. And you have to listen to the coach and whether you like their rules or not, their rules are their rules, since they're the coach. And so there was definitely a learning experience in there. So I think that's a really good point.
• 16:52
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Have you had any instances where, you know, you. You knew something that your kids were gonna do wasn't gonna work out, but you had to just sit back and let them fail anyways? Or do. Or do you typically step in and give them the guidance to say, like, hey, this isn't gonna work the way you want it to? How do you balance that?
• 17:11
  Matt Eisenacher: No, I mean, my wife and I are not like that. Like, especially when it comes to, like, if there was something dangerous. And there's been several instances of that where we had to be a little bit more overt on. Look, this is not gonna happen, and here's why. And the most important thing your kids can do is the friends that they choose. That one, to me, is a little different when it comes to things like sports and confrontation. I just think so much of your growth is about dealing with adversity and Again, not to go back to the Florida thing that introduced a ton of adversity into their lives in a variety of different ways. Whereas I know that if we would have stayed, you know, where we were, their lives would have just been much easier. But I think the adversity is so important for them in these years before they start to go out on their own.
• 17:58
  Kevin Rice: So when you were making this transition, what did that actually look like behind the scenes? Were your kids nervous? Were they anxious? Did you get pushback? How did you support your whole family through this big transition?
• 18:12
  Matt Eisenacher: Pushback is an understatement. I remember. And my. This is why you always have to rely on listening and follow your wife's advice, because she warned me that it was going to be left field a little bit. And I remember my son had just come back from, like, two or three birthday parties, so he was, like, all sugared up. He was exhausted. And Kevin, I'm not kidding when I told him, because we split, she talked to my oldest, and I talked to my son, my middle one, and I told him, and he just literally melted down. I had to end up calling for reinforcements and calling for help from Brooke. And my oldest had. Her best friend lived next door, so it was a big shift. And going back to the role that my wife plays, I think anyone can testify to your spouse being such a rock in even your professional life. I don't think because of the. The shifts that we saw with our family, both our parents, our kids, everything, I don't think I could have made the call. In fact, I remember I'm a very decisive person, but I stalled out on the decision, and it was my wife that actually pushed me. And she said. I remember saying, look, I know you. I know what fulfills you, and I know what you're capable of, and that's not happening right now. And she. She was the one that pushed me. And I give her a lot of credit because, like, I've talked to a lot of people over the years. I've worked some multinational brands where people would go, you know, as expats overseas, and they talk about it being a formidable family experience. Absolutely was the same with this. That the things we learned as a family and how close it requires you guys to come together with a move like that. And by the way, that was a year before COVID too. So you went through that together, too. Was probably one of the coolest experiences now, in retrospect, for our family, maybe not the easiest, but. But one of the coolest.
• 19:59
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, really being able to bond Going through, like, a difficult time together ultimately can bring you closer.
• 20:04
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah, I mean, I. We lived in a very wonderful part of Ohio. It was a little bit of a bubble. And, you know, we moved down to Florida and we said, Florida's a. It's a unique place, you know, and, you know, even my son, my kids, as they started to move into sports. Sports is a really big deal, you know, especially, like, baseball, football in Florida. And even them having to make that shift from this, like, comfortable bubble to, you know, to really competitive and just a different world. They have grown so much since we did that. And so I can't say enough that, you know, if you ever contemplate a move with your family like that, you might focus on the things that it'll change negatively. But, man, it has a lot of really cool effects on the. On the other side as well. So.
• 20:49
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Yeah. So for somebody who's listening that's maybe considering a big opportunity that affects their whole family, what should they be thinking about? What questions should they be asking themselves before they decide yes or no?
• 21:01
  Matt Eisenacher: I mean, ultimately, I think it comes back to, like, complacency and comfort. I mean, I, I just. We were. We were comfortable where we were. And I think, you know, we asked ourselves, like, what are we. We're trying to be better. We're always trying to get better. And I think going back to what my wife said was like, she knew there was more and that, you know, I wasn't fulfilled. And that was a very, you know, selfless thing for her to look at and say, you know, that it's going to make her life more difficult. But. But there was growth to be had. And don't. Don't be afraid of changing things if there's growth on the other side.
• 21:38
  Kevin Rice: That's beautifully supportive of her to, like, know you that intimately, to know that this is the right move for you. Cause she. It sounds like she could kind of see something that maybe you were having a hard time seeing in the moment and being able to, like, give you that nudge because it was the right thing for you, even though it might add more stress to her plate. So she. She has had.
• 22:00
  Matt Eisenacher: Several times throughout my career, I can think of several where, you know, sometimes you, You. You think you know yourself, but you may not always be honest with your tendencies. Your spouse can be. Cause they're on the outside looking in. And there are several big decisions that I've had to make where she was the one that kind of helped pull it apart and, and helped me do what I knew was right. I just wasn't willing to pull the trigger on quite yet.
• 22:25
  Kevin Rice: Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. What about at work? Have you had any situations where maybe there was a campaign being developed or some sort of initiative and you knew it wasn't going to go exactly as planned, but you had to sit back and let the team kind of learn through their mistakes anyways?
• 23:00
  Matt Eisenacher: Definitely. I probably shouldn't go into specifics on it, but it's one of those where, you know, you just. You have to be really upfront with your opinion. And, you know, oftentimes what I've learned in the side of managing people is that first time as a manager that you had to have a hard conversation with someone and you just. All you want to do is avoid it at all costs and you kind of want to be nuanced around it. And I just learned really early on that, like, you have to be very upfront with people about where you stand on things. And some of the best conversations I've had with people, whether it's development or not, have been things that were very difficult conversations. And those are times, I can think of several, where that person might come back to you years later. And thank you for being willing to have that conversation. So, I mean, if there's people that are younger in their career, that's definitely something I would say is you can be really kind, but really upfront and honest, too. And even if it's an opinion for your team, to understand where your opinion is allows them to evaluate the level of their certainty as well.
• 24:01
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, that's something that I struggled with. If I look back half of my time when we were building Hathaway, I was under 30 years old. I was still very young. I sold the company when I was 36.
• 24:14
  Matt Eisenacher: No way.
• 24:14
  Kevin Rice: And so I spent a lot of time developing my leadership skills, but there were certain things I was immature about. Right. So I. I thought my job was to make sure everybody avoided the potholes. And if I saw something that was coming, I was very direct and I would be very commanding of like, no, we're not going to do that. And here's why. I didn't really give them a chance to fail. I didn't give them a chance to learn from mistakes. I can remember one instance where I pushed forward an internal initiative. Despite my VP saying it was a bad idea. I knew it was the right thing to do, so I pushed it forward anyways. But I lost him. I lost the relationship. I lost his spirit of taking initiative. So while I took the project forward and we needed to do it, I completely lost all the motivation and kind of go getter attitude from this employee. And honestly, if I look back, it wasn't worth it.
• 25:17
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah, people want to be empowered. They want to know that they have autonomy. And I think the best way to guide that autonomy and to give them that is to be going back to the idea of making sure you set a strong vision. I mean, if I can think back over my career where I felt like I had to step in a lot, it's easy for you to look and say, oh, it's because those whoever doesn't know. But it's actually, it's either you're not leading the right way by setting the right vision, or they don't understand it, or there's a skill and will gap on the other side of things. And so, yeah, I think you might feel better that those are, you're making the right decisions, but long term, you're not strengthening the leaders on your team.
• 25:56
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, that's cool. I'm working on a book. It's called the Executive guides of Parenting. But I wrote an entire chapter about skill versus will. And in the book, I translated it to how you would use that model with kids. And with kids, it's not quite skill and will. The way I reframed it was around kind of emotional regulation and connection. Because if your kids aren't connected with you, are they really going to listen to you? If they're not emotionally regulated, they're definitely not going to listen to you. And so I would take that same quadrant and figure out, okay, where are they right now? Do I need to help them calm their nervous system so they can hear me and then teach them the lesson. So this is just another example of, like, I love all of the career frameworks and strategies and being able to apply them, because that was the only way I could figure out how to be a better parent for my kids.
• 26:45
  Matt Eisenacher: It's the hardest thing. I know you know this, but going home at night, when you're going, going, going and having your brain make that shift. And the biggest thing I have to do, my wife reminds me of this is like a lot of times your Kids just want you to listen. You know, my tendency at work is decisions, man. You got, they're coming at you, you're making them. And you almost pride yourself on the efficiency of how fast you can make them. Your kids really like, they might like bring something up that like they want your opinion. They really, really don't. And it is something that I definitely need to work on where sometimes you just gotta be quiet, listen and listen to and listen to them because they just, they're unpacking the day. And the other thing I've learned is oftentimes the best place to let them unpack is not when it just happened. Like it was just last night in the car. We were driving home from football practice, my son was overwhelmed and he was yelling at me. And I said, you know what? I can tell you've been to school for 12 hours, you've just been through intense practice. I'm just going to let you chill. And then we got home, he sat down to eat and then you know, talking about everything that happened. So you just got to give them a little space and you got to just listen.
• 27:52
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, that's where in career like product productivity efficiency kind of rule. But when you get home, those things can actually be a liab. My son, whenever he wants to talk about something that's emotional for him or sensitive, it's always at like 9 o' clock after he's already supposed to be in bed. And so I have to turn off my logistics and scheduling part of me so that I can just be present. Because if he needs to open up about something that's difficult for him, Even if it's 9 o' clock at night and he should be in bed, I probably want to be in bed too. You just gotta create the space for it. Cause otherwise you're just gonna keep shutting em down and then they're never gonna open up.
• 28:39
  Matt Eisenacher: It's. It is so funny when you say that I'm, I'm smiling because my oldest does the same thing. So she stays up a little bit later when my wife will go to bed. And I. What I've learned is when my wife goes to bed and my oldest is on the couch, maybe she's watching something on TV if I just go sit next to her. But it's always right before we're going to bed, that is when she starts sharing everything. So I intentionally stay up at night past my wife because that's just when my daughter decides, that's when she's willing to share stuff.
• 29:07
  Kevin Rice: That's amazing. That's really beautiful that you do that, because my bedtime is sacred for me. But when my son needs to talk, and it's usually something pretty hard for him because he hasn't had his biological mom in his life for a long time. And so it's usually 9 o' clock at night and he wants to talk about why his mom's not in his life. And as he gets older, he wants more information about it. And so it's. It's always a very difficult subject to talk about. And to your point earlier, I naturally want to problem solve, but this is an instance where I have no solution. It's not up to me. I have no way to influence this. And I just have to sit there and listen and just kind of support him and tell him that, you know, the way he's feeling is understandable and, you know, there's nothing we can really do about it, but he's loved and. Yeah, like, you just gotta kind of create the space for it.
• 30:05
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah. Our job as parents isn't always to solve every problem. It's encourage them to really explore, you know, how they would solve it or what they think. What they think is right. You know, give them a moral compass and teach them how to work hard. And they'll more often than not, after a couple failures, they start to make the right decisions.
• 30:24
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Yeah, well, so moral compass. I wanted to talk to you about values because I look at a organization like First Watch, and there's just really strong values around people. Curious. What are your values that you carry into work? And are those different, or do they. Are they similar to how you are looking to instill values in your own children?
• 30:48
  Matt Eisenacher: I don't. I think there's shades of the same. So our number one core value here, and it was really etched out by our founder, Ken, is to just be kind. And that's that feeling I had when I first met this leadership team back in 2019, was exactly what I felt. I'm not gonna act like I'm perfect. Of course I'm. I'm not. I. I'd say two main things for me and, and the first was, is honesty. I think it goes back to being very upfront with people about how you feel and, you know, do what you say you're gonna do. Because the, you know, the first time that, you know, someone notices that you aren't being honest, they're gonna question everything else that you do. And the second thing I think it's the Midwesterner in me is I just tend to be a little Bit of a grinder. Hard work, and we do that with our kids. Actually, Chris, our CEO, he's actually my next door neighbor. He was always laughing at me, like, doing my yard work. And I just, I just grew up that way. It's my family instilling, like, you know, you work hard and your work ethic is really important. And I can say that about First Watch, but it's definitely, probably the number one thing that my wife and I preach with our kids is that you're not going to just sit on a couch and, you know, watch things go by. We want you out there doing it. And the more you're out there doing, the more you have a chance to fail. And the more you fail, the more you'll learn.
• 32:06
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, yeah. I mean, anything in life worth having is going to take some work. Uh, you know, grit, resilience. Those are some of the really important values that I try to teach my kids because I, I found them in my, in my career. But it was the thing that allowed our company to keep growing. We would have these major setbacks and just the organization got so resilient and kept pushing it forward. And so there was a lot of things I, like, learned in my career. And I actually wrote out mission, vision, values for my family. And my kids are still pretty young. It doesn't quite land for them, but I'm just to plant some seeds and I can kind of reference back to it. And, you know, when they're struggling, I can be like, hey, remember, one of our family values is grit. How do we work through this? How do we push past it? And, you know, I'm just hoping those little seeds get planted over time and we can kind of build that culture in our family as they get older.
• 33:02
  Matt Eisenacher: Kevin, I have to tell you one story along. The idea of hard work just happened yesterday, and it just sticks in my head.
• 33:08
  Kevin Rice: Please.
• 33:09
  Matt Eisenacher: I share a wall with Laura, our chief people officer, and I see her walking around with a student in the hall, and all of a sudden she comes in my office and introduces. I hope this guy's listening. His name's Caleb. This guy Caleb, who I think he was visiting someone here in Florida, but he went to college in Virginia and he was doing a capstone class and they chose to do their. Their project on First Watch. I forget how he said he. I think he was driving by or he knew he was visiting and he knew First Watch was in this part of Florida, and he decided because he wanted for his project to talk to someone. And I was one of those people. To better inform his project. So he sat in our lobby downstairs and there's a couple other businesses in this building, and asked everyone that came by, do you work for First Watch? Do you work for First? Until he met Laura, our chief people officer. And his whole goal was he had so much energy and he was so motivated to do this project that he just came in, sat down me, and wanted to ask me a bunch of questions. And the reason I bring this up is, you know, we're in the world like AI and everything becomes easier and easier to access. And here was, here was the student that was like so motivated and willing to go the extra mile. And I was just so hammered. I just don't feel like I see that as much anymore. And I don't mean to sound like the old guy, but I guess my point, when you said it's, you know, it differentiates you, it really does. Like this kid, he stuck out to me because of the lengths he was willing to go to to do a really good job on his project. So anyway, I just thought it was cool story that just happened.
• 34:38
  Kevin Rice: That's great, right? I mean, he could have otherwise just sent a hundred passive emails or messages to a bunch of different companies, but he knew the organization, he wanted to study and he made the effort to show up in person. Yeah, I think with so much digital, I mean, we're on camera, it'd be so much nicer to be in person having this conversation. So kudos to him for taking the initiative.
• 35:02
  Matt Eisenacher: Good on you, Caleb. Yeah.
• 35:06
  Kevin Rice: Earlier you mentioned you have three different kids, three different ages. And we've talked about how you parent them differently and, and you kind of made the connection of all my employees or all my team members. I need to consider them differently too. So has having different kids and kind of recognizing how you need to parent them individually. Like, how does that translate at work? If we could go into a little bit more detail, like how do you work with one employee versus another? Just kind of in generalization.
• 35:36
  Matt Eisenacher: I think anytime you have a new working relationship or especially when people get promoted, a lot changes with them. And I think just taking the first few months, the time to observe. And the biggest thing I've learned is that people are motivated by different things. Some it's career, some it's money, some it's all about work, life, balance. And I think you could easily ask them those things early on, but sometimes they don't know either. And I think giving yourself the space that, like when you have a new working relationship or someone new to your Organization that first, whatever the period of time is, three, six months. Your job is more to observe than it is to get things solved because ultimately the path to the end is going to be different with each person. But to me, it's like it's just a trial of working with that person and observing, you know, what their work style is. How you communicate with them is very different. Especially now with all the different digital means or in person. You know, there's some people you, you need to go stand next to their desk and talk with them because they feel better when you're in person. Sometimes there's other people I can think of where they, they sometimes just call them and say, hey, I just want to check in on you. I haven't heard from you in a while. And that means a lot to them because they're, you know, looking for a lot more of connection with people than they are problem solving. So I, I don't. I guess I don't know necessarily how I do it. I just realized it's definitely one of the things about me that I constantly think of is, you know, who, who needs a lot of help right now. Not, not with the problem itself, but just working. Who needs acknowledgment, you know, that that's another thing that really motivates people. So, yeah, just different personalities require different things.
• 37:20
  Kevin Rice: You're making me think of the, the book Love Languages. There's probably like a translated version of employee how they receive gratitude.
• 37:30
  Matt Eisenacher: Actually, I'm reaching in here because I actually, in my drawer right here, I have. We do disc assessments and we, we actually are pretty active in discussing those. And I have a. The wheel with my entire team of where people are plotted. And I, I can tell you there's some people that really have to sit with problems and think through them. I'm a ready, fire, aim type approach. But I, I realize at times you can't do that because they almost can't keep up with you because they have to sit with it and work through it themselves. And so while it's not love languages, we do use disc.
• 38:03
  Kevin Rice: Yeah.
• 38:04
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah.
• 38:04
  Kevin Rice: How does that kind of thinking show up for you as a dad? Are your kids kind of similar in that they need different things from you? How do you assess their personality types and support them each individually?
• 38:16
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah, I mean, like my oldest is. She is very strong, very strong mentally. She has a strong sense of self. And so the last thing I should do is tell her, let's say she comes off to lacrosse field. And for me to say, you did this Thing it wrong or, you know, this could be better run for the hills. But. But you let a day or so go by and you show her other examples and, and, and you kind of leave them with her. Like, you know, I do use Instagram a lot with her where I'll. I'll send her DMs of like, inspirational things or examples of other players in lacrosse, and she can sit with it in her own space and process it and put it in place for herself. I. My son a little bit more of a feeler, and so he needs a whole lot more encouragement and, you know, really trying to make him realize that, you know, he's. He's definitely able to accomplish anything he wants to. And then my youngest, right now, she's building her identity and making sure that her older two siblings, who are both very strong, don't define her self image and making sure that she has the ability to explore what's right for her, whether it's the same as her brother and sister or not. So they're all right, you know, right. There is just three very different stages and very different personalities.
• 39:34
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. I can see how, like, attuned you are to your children just by the way you describe them and kind of where they're at in their stage of life and what they need. How do you manage to stay so connected and understanding of where your kids are at, given the significant role that you play at first watch, the career, the travel, how do you stay present and how do you stay attuned with your kids?
• 39:59
  Matt Eisenacher: I have to give 100% of that credit to my wife. I will admit, like, I do struggle with the. Again, I already said, you come home and you're like, all business. My wife's the one who'll be like, bet she just needed you to listen, take a pause, be like, you're right. Or Matt, you, you know, he just came off the field and like, you just. You could jumped into the solution too fast. It's a hundred percent my wife, and she's a. She's a coach too, so she's really good at it. But she is very good. Going back to the decision we made for my career, she's very selfless and understands that in others. So I think it's probably me watching her do it more than it is something that I'm a, you know, an A at, you know, so I'm appreciative to her for that.
• 40:46
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I mean, that's amazing, having a really strong support system like that. But you got to give yourself some credit. Because you know, she couldn't have told you all those things. Like you obviously have a really deep connection with your kids or you wouldn't know all those things about them. I've talked to plenty of parents who don't even know their kids friends names. So you're doing something right there.
• 41:09
  Matt Eisenacher: Friends are the most important thing. That's what we always say. Always focused on.
• 41:13
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Last time we talked, you were telling me a story about how you like left a company conference early to get to, I think it was like a football finals or something like that. And then somebody on your team later told you that kind of watching you make that choice gave her permission to prioritize her own family. Because our teams, they don't listen to what we say. They, they follow what we do. Right. We model and they're going to take on the same behaviors as we do. So what did that moment teach you about kind of the example that senior leaders need to set?
• 41:50
  Matt Eisenacher: That was, thank you for bringing that up. I forgot about that. And it seems simple, but it was an aha moment for me because I was just thinking, I just finished presenting at our company conference. I had to go across the state. I'm just thinking I'm going to go to my son's football game. And to her it meant more than that because she, family was really important, is really important to her. And I think she said, you know, first watch always says family is important. But seeing you do that said to me this is okay. And that that was the thing where I guess the lesson is model the behavior you want. And I'll even take that back to failure, which you asked about earlier, like part of the reason you, you, you'll empower people and get to the right solutions and, and not be efficient. Afraid of failure is if you, you don't hide your own failure. There's plenty of times that I have had strong convictions of things that I'll tell the team and then, you know, unfold. And, and I, I, I try to be like, hey, I was absolutely wrong seasonal menu item right now that I said I didn't think the US was kind of ready for it yet. And it's the number one selling seasonal item we've ever had. I was blatantly wrong. And so I tried to make sure I'm overt with those things to basically say like, hey, I was wrong and I'm okay with saying that. So you're going to be wrong at some point and that's okay too because something right will come after it.
• 43:10
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I Appreciate the how concise. Model the behavior that you're looking for. And that couldn't be more true across both worlds. I remember when I probably midway through my tenure at Hathaway, I was telling my team, hey, don't work evenings, don't work weekends. I don't want you to. But then at the same time, I was emailing them and I was telling them, hey, don't worry about emailing me back. I'm not expecting a reply till Monday. But I'd still email them. And so I'd be telling them one thing, but then they would. They'd be replying to me over the weekend, and I was giving them a very mixed message of what I wanted, which I actually didn't want them to be replying over the weekend. I just needed to get out of my brain and into their inbox before I lost the train of thought. But that wasn't helping the situation because I wasn't modeling the behavior that I was looking for. Better way to do it probably just be take some notes and send them first thing Monday or the scheduler to send the email Monday morning. But those are some of the things that I just needed to learn the lessons through the school of hard knocks.
• 44:15
  Matt Eisenacher: I have that tendency at times, too. But I always have that thing where at the last second, you stop yourself and like, do I really need to send this right now? Probably not.
• 44:23
  Kevin Rice: But also like a great example with your kids, right? If you want your kids to learn how to be resilient, but you never try something new, how are they going to see you model that? Right? I consciously have to pick up certain things that I know I'm not going to be good at, like skateboarding. I didn't grow up skateboarding. Both my kids kind of casually skateboard, and so I'll get on skateboard and I'm pretty bad. And then I'll show them. I'll work on it for 20 minutes and get a little bit better. I'll be like, oh, look, I made some progress. I usually fall on my butt a few times, but I haven't broken anything yet, so that's good. But same thing with kids, right? Well, we have to model how to be a beginner because that's where our kids are at. And if all we do is stay in our own lane, things that we've been doing for 30 years that we're good at, they'll never see us failing and never see us getting back up.
• 45:08
  Matt Eisenacher: All right, so now you put one in my brain. So my son's Gotten really big into skimboarding. And then like I, I, every time like, oh man, I'm getting too old, I shouldn't do it. But now you've given me a challenge. I, now I gotta get on the skim board.
• 45:21
  Kevin Rice: So careful, skimboard. It could be dangerous.
• 45:24
  Matt Eisenacher: It is. But I, I, now I feel like I have to, I have to do it.
• 45:27
  Kevin Rice: So you gotta get some risk guards before you do.
• 45:33
  Matt Eisenacher: It looks hard, so that's why I haven't done it. But I, you're right, you're right. They, they're watching. They're always watching. So.
• 45:39
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, well that, that's a great example of just like a boundary you put in place place. Right. If you're saying I have a boundary where I'm not gonna miss important games. Right. Have you ever had any instances where maybe your family boundaries cost you professionally? Because I think that's a lot of what people are scared of. If I set a boundary that after hours I'm not available, am I going to get criticized by peers or bosses? Have you had any issues where that's kind of come up for you?
• 46:06
  Matt Eisenacher: I really can't. I'm fortunate to work for a place that really does walk the walk. I feel very blessed that, you know, a lot of what, you know, our moving to Florida did was the, the place where you, you can, you can do all of that stuff and, and for people not to look down on you because they're all parents too. So I, I'm very happy to say no. I, I really nothing comes to mind where I feel like I've had to make that trade off. No.
• 46:32
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Well, you are very blessed. That's a, that's a great thing to be able to respond like that.
• 46:36
  Matt Eisenacher: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Kevin Rice: What would you say to a leader who, who does want to prioritize family but maybe is worried that it'll make them look less committed to the organization
• 46:44
  Matt Eisenacher: you just have stand for. I mean, if it's important to you, then life's, life's full of decisions. Right. And there's always a trade off, there's always an implication. Maybe that means you're going to go to the games, you're going to have to work that much harder. But you just have to decide what you stand for. I mean we, we have a thing where we always want one of us to be at their games. And so there are some times where like we'll be in two different geographies or kids are in two different places, whatever. We want them to always have a parent there ready to support Them. That's a thing for us that we're not willing to give on. And so sometimes decisions in life, like moving to Florida, are difficult, but you make the decisions and you make the best of them.
• 47:32
  Kevin Rice: So, Matt, you've built brands, you've built teams, major campaigns across different chapters of your career. I think one of the things I'm always thinking about as my kids aren't going to remember any of that. You know, they're going to remember what it was like to. To be a child in, you know, the world that I'm creating for them. I imagine you've spent a lot of your career thinking about how people will feel when they walk into your restaurant. How do you want your wife and kids to feel when you walk into the house?
• 48:02
  Matt Eisenacher: Said this about my youngest, but I mean it about all of them. I want them to have a very confident, strong sense of self and that their parents were willing to right wrong, even when maybe they weren't excited about what we were saying. Can look back and understand what those decisions were helping them build in terms of their identity. And an example, I. I keep mentioning friends because my oldest is 17 and went through the, you know, that phase. That's the phase she was going through, man. I mean, between that and technology, there were some pretty tough parenting decisions and shouldn't say decisions, conversations that we had to go through. And as my daughter navigated that moment and we were behind the scenes, there were some. Some hard limits, and then there were some, hey, this is what you should really think about for yourself. And she went through a couple of those learning moments. But now I come out of that and I see her have a stronger sense of self and confidence. And I can tell she now knows a little bit more of what she stands for and may look at other people that maybe at one time looked popular and very cool and now has made that decision herself. So it's not like as a parent saying, no, we forbid you to see that person. It's the constant conversations about what we're cautioning against, and then that happens, and she then pieces that together. And I think she's more confident going back to most of the examples I gave you. You know, it was all around that, talking to them a lot. We monitor a lot of their technology, not to restrict it, but to understand what they're going through, especially at a younger age. Yeah, it's just helping them find their own sense of identity versus them feeling like their parents are washing it on them or forcing it on them.
• 49:49
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, it's like when they're young. There's more boundaries where it's firm. Nothing's going to change this. And there's maybe some, what I would call like guardrails where it's like, okay, I'm going to give you some guidance on this, but ultimately you're going to make the decision. And as they get older, there's less boundaries because they have so much more freedom. They have a car they can drive where they want. Their curfew extends and it starts to become more guardrails. You might want to watch out for this. But ultimately I trust you to make a decision. And that's a big kind of transition as a parent that I haven't gone through yet. But it's something that I'm foreseeing coming in the next few years.
• 50:26
  Matt Eisenacher: Oh, man, it's, it's again, not to like, get into the whole technology thing, but it's tough. We're, we're really kind of the first generation for our kids to go through their lives with technology as long as they can remember. And so they don't know how to moderate as much. And so doing that with a high schooler that is learning themselves, their friends, how to, how to navigate issues, how to avoid certain situations, like, it's a, it's a real thing. I think with the progression you just gave is one that is very, very accurate that you have to, you have to be maybe more overt up front and have a lot more conversations up front because you, you eventually have to ease that off towards the end and you have to hope at that point that you've instilled those values and those lessons, you know, from, from the last few years. So
• 51:14
  Kevin Rice: that's the job.
• 51:15
  Matt Eisenacher: We do the best. That is the job. That is the job.
• 51:18
  Kevin Rice: Well, Matt, thank you so much for joining me today. Like, really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for sharing your experience and the reminder that our kids don't always need quick fire solutions. Sometimes they just need us to listen. You're an amazing father. Balancing both work and family with a lot of presence, thought and care. I truly appreciate you being here today. If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow and stay tuned.