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Cristina Farella and Divination for Dummies · The Occult Rejects

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  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
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  Speaker 2: What's going to happen? What I Welcome back to the
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  Speaker 2: occult Rejects. Today we're joined by a returning guest whose
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  Speaker 2: work lives at the fascinating crossroads with symbolism, intuition, ritual
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  Speaker 2: and interpretation. All meet. Christina Ferrella is an astrologer, divination educator,
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  Speaker 2: founder of Eighth House Astrology, author of Divination for Dummies,
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  Speaker 2: and co host of Sora Mystica with Marianna Lewis, a
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  Speaker 2: podcast exploring modern spirituality through symbol, myth and mystic inquiry.
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  Speaker 2: What makes Christina especially compelling is that her approach doesn't
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  Speaker 2: reduce divination to novelty or shallow fortune telling. She treats
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  Speaker 2: it as something much richer, a symbolic art, a spiritual discipline,
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  Speaker 2: and a serious practice of learning how meaning speaks through images, patterns,
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  Speaker 2: ritual and intuition. The same spirit is all over Divination
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  Speaker 2: for Dummies, which she describes as a grounded, well researched
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  Speaker 2: introduction for people who want to actually learn how to
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  Speaker 2: divine rather than just skim the surface. And this book
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  Speaker 2: really does open the door wide. It walks readers through
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  Speaker 2: a broad range of divinatory systems, including taro, numerology, astrology, palmistry, scrying,
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  Speaker 2: and even bone throwing. It walks readers through a broad
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  Speaker 2: range of divinatory systems including taro, numerology, astrology, palmistry, and scrying,
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  Speaker 2: all while also giving attention to ritual tools, origins, daily practice,
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  Speaker 2: and the building of confidence as a reader. So it's
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  Speaker 2: not just a book about what divination is. It's also
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  Speaker 2: about how to begin, how to practice, and how to
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  Speaker 2: develop a real relationship with these traditions and in a
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  Speaker 2: thoughtful and usable way. So today we're going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about Christina's path, her work, her podcast in this new book,
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  Speaker 2: what divenetion really is, why it hasn't dared across cultures
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  Speaker 2: for so long, and what these systems can still offer
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  Speaker 2: to beginners, practitioners and the merely curious. I like not
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  Speaker 2: before I introduce the co host and the guest. I
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  Speaker 2: do have an announcement to make. We do have the
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  Speaker 2: website a Cult Research Institute dot org. There's a lot
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: of stuff on there if you like to read, so
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  Speaker 2: check it out. And if you're interested, there are two
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: styles of shirts on there. And now let me introduce
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  Speaker 2: the co host Headlet's Giant. My man, what is going on?
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  Speaker 1: How you doing? I've got the you know, normal road
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  Speaker 1: rage going on outside of my window. But it's great
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  Speaker 1: to be here. You can check out my show on
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  Speaker 1: the Headless Giant YouTube channel and on x and on
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  Speaker 1: Instagram as well. So thank you very much for having me.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for coming on man. I was looking
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  Speaker 2: forward to this one. And Christina, please, if there's anything
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  Speaker 2: I left out or anything like the plug a mension,
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  Speaker 2: please let everybody know.
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  Speaker 3: Oh well, I'm really happy to be back. It's really
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  Speaker 3: nice to be sharing space with you both. I'm excited
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  Speaker 3: for a conversation. And I think that the one thing
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  Speaker 3: that I'll plug besides sore Mystica, which is my podcast
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  Speaker 3: with my friend Marianna who I was on recently with,
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  Speaker 3: is my class. It's the School of Astrological Arcana. It's
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  Speaker 3: my kind of I call it my big class. It's
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  Speaker 3: my ten week immersion course in the art of chart interpretation.
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  Speaker 3: So this is for budding astrologers out there, people who
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  Speaker 3: want to either become professional astrologers in their own right,
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  Speaker 3: or people who are just really really passionate about astrology
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  Speaker 3: and want a supportive, kind of rich, immersive learning environment
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  Speaker 3: to actually understand how to read your chart from top
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  Speaker 3: to bottom. So that's beginning on April twenty ninth, and
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  Speaker 3: I have founding cohort pricing going on right now through
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  Speaker 3: April tenth, so if anybody wants to enroll, they can
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  Speaker 3: jump in and save a well cash before that happens.
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  Speaker 3: And yeah, feels so silly being salesy, but anyway, it's
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  Speaker 3: not a sales the environment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, shirts feel stupid.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yes, So I'd love to
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  Speaker 3: have anybody who's listening and is a fan of the
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  Speaker 3: show in our spring coport, so you can learn more
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  Speaker 3: about that in links that I'm sure will be available.
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  Speaker 3: But my website, Christinafarrella dot com has a big banner
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  Speaker 3: for the school up at the top and you can
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  Speaker 3: check it out there.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you very much. And I do highly
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  Speaker 2: suggest I know I've said it before, I think when
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  Speaker 2: you were on for our listeners, if you you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you're into this show, I really do think you
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  Speaker 2: will find a lot of value in their podcast. I
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  Speaker 2: think they're kind of very much on the same page
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  Speaker 2: in a sense, So definitely go check it out. Please.
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  Speaker 2: It's great stuff and definitely check out their books and
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  Speaker 2: their work. I think it's, you know, a value, which
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  Speaker 2: is why I have them on. So Christina, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I might have like some questions here that might almost
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  Speaker 2: you like a little bit kind of how it was
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  Speaker 2: in the last show, only because it's just kind of
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  Speaker 2: the way I start off. But for people meeting you
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  Speaker 2: for the first time, maybe they didn't catch you the
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  Speaker 2: last time that you were on. Who is Christina and
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  Speaker 2: what first drew you into astrology and divination?
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  Speaker 3: I have no idea who Christina is, but what I
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  Speaker 3: think me.
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  Speaker 2: Into yo first place. Second I looked at your name,
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  Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, did I just suck up a name?
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  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 3: Sorry? I was like, fun, that's good, No, just doing
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  Speaker 3: just doing existential comedy. No, So yeah, I'm Christina. Yes,
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  Speaker 3: it's true. And I think that, you know, what first
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  Speaker 3: drew me into all of this. Honestly, I think that
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  Speaker 3: I was raised in like a very strict Irish Italian
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  Speaker 3: Roman Catholic household, and church was really really important in
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  Speaker 3: that environment. And I'm, you know, just we were just
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  Speaker 3: always in and very involved with the church growing up.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, when I was a teenager, I was like,
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  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is fake, the church sucks, blah
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  Speaker 3: blah blah. So I had like my break with all
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  Speaker 3: of that ideology. But what I think stayed with me
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  Speaker 3: was this truth that God is in nature and we
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  Speaker 3: are part of that. And so I always have been
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  Speaker 3: that sort of like woo woo, I don't know, just
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  Speaker 3: like a sensitive soul who like loves nature and animals
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  Speaker 3: and the ocean and the stars and stuff. And the
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  Speaker 3: older I got, the more I probably struggled to figure
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  Speaker 3: out who I am, why I am the way I am,
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  Speaker 3: And just by chance, I think I bumped into a
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  Speaker 3: book on astrology in like borders a million years ago
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  Speaker 3: and started learning about what that might be.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Of course, I knew my horoscope from reading like fashion
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  Speaker 3: magazines as a young girl, but I didn't know anything
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  Speaker 3: more about it from the horoscope, so kind of like
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  Speaker 3: tiptoeing towards it, tiptoeing around it. I really got into
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  Speaker 3: it when I first got to college and you know,
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  Speaker 3: started to really want to know myself and know how
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  Speaker 3: to understand other people. And I found that astrology gave
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  Speaker 3: us such a fascinating language and an accurate one for
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  Speaker 3: describing the people in my life and myself so I
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  Speaker 3: think that I always approached astrology as yes, this mystical system,
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  Speaker 3: but also you know, before I knew about the deep
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  Speaker 3: mysticism of it, it seemed like a really great way
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  Speaker 3: to just have extra language to describe your experience, which
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  Speaker 3: I think we can always use more of as humans
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  Speaker 3: in this world. So, you know, that was kind of
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  Speaker 3: like the opening of the door. And then regarding you know,
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  Speaker 3: occult stuff that's harder to pinpoint. I think there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of subtle occultism in Italian culture and Italian Catholic
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  Speaker 3: culture specifically. That was like kind of the like, both
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  Speaker 3: both sides of my family are very rich in traditions,
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  Speaker 3: but you know, there's something about the Italian stuff that
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  Speaker 3: was just kind of like witchy and present, and so
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  Speaker 3: I was super curious about that. And you know, I
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  Speaker 3: don't know, one thing led to another and before you
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  Speaker 3: know it, you're practicing which in your bedroom in Brooklyn
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  Speaker 3: and doing spells. So I think that being led though
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  Speaker 3: by ancestral tradition is something like that was my doorway
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  Speaker 3: into practice, not really reaching for things like too outside
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  Speaker 3: of my culture, but really using it as a way
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  Speaker 3: to get connected with my family and ancestral stories and
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  Speaker 3: things like that that I think we're lost. So that's
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  Speaker 3: an answer that I can give there. Yeah, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: I got to hop In so I got to know
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  Speaker 1: you said Italian. Have you looked into the lost Italian
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  Speaker 1: art of augury being able to divide symbols from the birds?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes. The most recent thinking I've done about augury
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  Speaker 3: is I recently reread the Odyssey and there's so much
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  Speaker 3: bird omen stuff in that book and I was really
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  Speaker 3: I was fascinated about that. I wrote a piece about it.
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  Speaker 3: I thought it was really interesting. But yeah, that's one
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  Speaker 3: of the oldest forms of divination, at least in the
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  Speaker 3: Greco Roman tradition, specifically Roman. Actually right, it's totally fascinating.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, what's your augury relationship?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I just see how it was integral to the
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  Speaker 1: processing and creating of the Greek Roban religion, especially in Rome.
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  Speaker 1: They had the College of Augurs, and that was sixteen
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  Speaker 1: of these augurs who were skilled and you know, all
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  Speaker 1: the forms of divination that you've mentioned with astrology and
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  Speaker 1: all these other things, but specifically they would you know,
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  Speaker 1: divine the auspices before battles and things like this, and
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  Speaker 1: they would do that by putting out a grid pattern
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  Speaker 1: and watching the birds and how they moved across these things.
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  Speaker 1: And to me, it brings up the images of murmuration, right,
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  Speaker 1: So as these birds are murmurating through the sky, you
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  Speaker 1: get different images and different associations through it, and they
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  Speaker 1: would be looking at it on a grid pattern and seeing,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the easterlye westerly movements of these different birds
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  Speaker 1: and how these you know, associate with these other things.
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  Speaker 1: And this is how they would then draw from the
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  Speaker 1: College of Augers into the ponte Vex Maximus. So this
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  Speaker 1: College of Augers was basically the lower level to the
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  Speaker 1: higher level traditions.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so cool. It's so interesting and like I think,
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  Speaker 3: you know, now, even if you're driving on the highway
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  Speaker 3: and it's a drive where you're like thinking about something
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  Speaker 3: heavy or thinking about something deep, and then all of
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  Speaker 3: a sudden, like a giant redtail hawk flies in front
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  Speaker 3: of you, it always feels like a sign or a symbol.
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  Speaker 3: And I take that stuff seriously, so, you know, I
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  Speaker 3: think it's just like innate thing that we do as people.
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  Speaker 3: But I love that the Romans codified it. It's so
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  Speaker 3: it's so interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Right, and each one of these different birds have their
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  Speaker 1: associations with the gods, so you know, the red tailed
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  Speaker 1: hawk being associated with Apollo or Horus and these other
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  Speaker 1: symbols that it's almost like Pan Mediterranean how they they
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  Speaker 1: sort of syncretize these things. So not only were you
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  Speaker 1: seeing a bird, but you were seeing the representation of
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  Speaker 1: the god on earth.
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  Speaker 3: You know, absolutely, Yeah, I love that.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that sounds really interesting. I don't look into that one. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I've only I've heard of it here and there. I
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  Speaker 2: think I've heard Headla's mention it before.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got a guy in the chat who's talking
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  Speaker 3: about the lamb livers of the sheep livers too, because
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  Speaker 3: that was also another thing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, heriustracy and they would divine using the actual intrails
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  Speaker 1: of these animals.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, there's even like all you could
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  Speaker 3: find old maps kind of like a divination map of
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  Speaker 3: the liver carved into stone or pressed onto metal plates
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  Speaker 3: from you know, thousands and thousands of years ago that
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  Speaker 3: are really fascinating to look at because, yeah, depending on
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  Speaker 3: the condition of the liver and spots on it or
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  Speaker 3: colors or the shape of it or the texture omens
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  Speaker 3: would be good or would be bad. So yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I'm glad we don't have to do animal sacrifice to
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  Speaker 3: divine anymore.
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  Speaker 1: Though it makes me say, right, but it brings up
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  Speaker 1: sort of like we have symbols like that, and are
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  Speaker 1: you know common divination now with little caterpillars? How how
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: long that band is, whether or not you're going to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: have a good summer or good winter and things like that.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, there's some of this stuff that has actually
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  Speaker 1: survived in sort of the folk tradition today.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, right, there's so many, yeah, yeah, so
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  Speaker 4: many traditions because it's something that humans automatically do.
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  Speaker 3: We're always automatically looking for signs. And it's not because
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  Speaker 3: we're nutty or irrational, but because it's just part of
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  Speaker 3: the human condition to want to connect I think, with
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  Speaker 3: nature in that way. So yeah, I think that that's
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  Speaker 3: something that's really important to preserve, and that's what I
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: try to do in my work.
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  Speaker 2: Nice. One thing I did want to ask you too,
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  Speaker 2: You have a strong academic and mythic side to your work.
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  Speaker 2: How did your background in Western intellectual traditions shape the
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  Speaker 2: way you approached divination if it did.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, grad school was a really good way to I'm
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  Speaker 3: not going to say by time, but it was a
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  Speaker 3: good way to fill up my intellectual reserves. And I
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  Speaker 3: think that, you know, I've always loved school. I really
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  Speaker 3: loved college in like a genuine way. It was really
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  Speaker 3: sad that it was over from an academic perspective, which
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: was like, really, I was sad that I was going
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  Speaker 3: to lose library access after I graduated undergrad. That's sad.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think that when I was doing my
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: master's at the Cunigrad Center here in New York, that
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: program was a very open ended one, and so I
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: wound up naturally just kind of cobbling together a curriculum
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: for myself that kind of like what Marianne was talking
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: about last time. She really focused on like archetypal exploration
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: YOUNGI and ideas medieval texts, and I was able to
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: do so much good reading of like classical Greek drama,
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  Speaker 3: and it really really inspired me because it was an
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: immersion into that world. And in Greek drama there's so
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  Speaker 3: much replication of ritual and so much replication of like
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: these archetypal things like grief and mourning or you know,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: the kind of psychic entanglements of mother daughter relationships, Like
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  Speaker 3: every aspect of learning about classical literature gave me something
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  Speaker 3: to think about and to integrate into my occult practice.
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  Speaker 3: Is weirdly enough, and so that was so super enriching
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  Speaker 3: and it really did help me. It kind of what
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I really wound up focusing on in that program was
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: I was really it became very obsessed with ancient Greek
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: funerary traditions and specifically like the female led lament, because
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I was experiencing some grief and loss in my family
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: at that time and was really struck by how there
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: was like no place for it in normal workaday world.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: A lot of sad shit was happening, and I was
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: just like going to work and going to school and
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: it felt really awful. And so I became obsessed with
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: like what the power of ritualizing death could do. And
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I think that that led me into a whole world
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  Speaker 3: of ritual around the soul and ghosts for lack of
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: you know whatever a more academic term. So yeah, that
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  Speaker 3: was a very I'm very grateful that I had that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: time that was very special.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Well, jug the Goat posted just at the perfect time.
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  Speaker 1: He was talking about his connection with cardinals and deer,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and when he sees cardinals and deer, they're always together,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and that sort of shows him that his loved ones
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  Speaker 1: are looking in on him from the after language.
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  Speaker 3: It's beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: It's a very beautiful thing. And I think a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people don't understand the connection between, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: soul and these different animals. You know, it seemed to
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: be a lot more stated, you know, if you think
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: about the what are they called the Esop's fables, right,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: they would ascribe certain personality types to these animals to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: teach you a lesson, but also you could see those
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: type of personality types in the people, so they almost
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: had a certain type of animals soul to them.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I see this comment that cardinals comes up for
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  Speaker 3: a lost love one. I hear that all the time.
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  Speaker 3: And my own mom attributes her mom's spirit to the
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: cardinal that lives in her backyard. And it's interesting that
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  Speaker 3: we make these associations without like discussing it with other people,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: and you know, just like across time. It's it's really fascinating,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: and I think that, you know, animals are like soul creatures.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: You know. I have two cats and I feel like
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: they're extensions of soul in my house all of the time.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: And if I'm not mistaken, I think that Yung said
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: that when we dream about animals, it's like we're dreaming
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  Speaker 3: about that sort of wild, untamed version of soul that
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: we carry with us, and so it's important to have
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  Speaker 3: a relationship with them. And yeah, yes, totally agree that
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: we need, you know, more more awareness of that.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think that's That's one of the things about
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  Speaker 1: divina that people don't realize is that it's more connecting
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  Speaker 1: than it is a separation, you know. I think a
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people feel like you're separating from the body
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  Speaker 1: or separating from nature when you're doing divinatory practices, but
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: it's actually the opposite. You're you're bringing more in than
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: you are, you know, expelling out and going on spirit
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  Speaker 1: journeys and these other things. But you know, it brings
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: up scrying, right, So I think some of the most
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: ancient forms of scrying have to do with water. And
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about water scrying.
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  Speaker 3: I love water scrying. I think that scrying is so
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: is so interesting because it seems so intimidating, but it's actually,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: again one of these these tools where your mind like
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: naturally seeks connection and seeks symbols. So for anyone who's
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: listening and they're like, what are they talking about, scrying
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: is the art of looking into a surface. So it
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: can be a bowl of water. It can also be
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: a black mirror. It can be a crystal ball. That's
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  Speaker 3: like the typical you know, you see like a fortune
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  Speaker 3: teller in a movie and they're like looking at their
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: crystal while they're scrying. You can also scry in fire,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and I actually sometimes prefer to do that with a candle.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: But you know, thinking about the kind of universal access
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: or the universal presence i should say, of water all
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: through human experience, it's really interesting that we took like
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: this very very essential resource and said this has the secret,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: this has an image. For me, this is hiding information,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to divine it and make it, you know,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: come out and reveal itself. And so, yeah, scrying is
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: fascinating because, and this is true for a lot of divination,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: you're doing it with tools that are totally ordinary, like
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: this glass of water here, it's holding information probably, you know.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: And so I think that a lot of divination early forms,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: especially we're done with water, fire, bones, shells, sticks, herbs. Right,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: And that's again saying like this is a nature based practice.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I think at bottom, right, there's something to this sort
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of universal elementalism that comes along with scrying. You know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: bones having to do with Saturn, and you know, the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: water having to do with all of these different water
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: nymphs and spirits. And it's using your eyes and your
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: senses to sort of see past just what's in front
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: of you. It's something something is there without being you
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: know fully in the moment, something eternal.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I wanted to ask, you're getting into the divination stuff now,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: basically talking about the book, what made you want to
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: write Divination for Dummies specifically and wine? Now?
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: So it was it was offered to me by someone's agent,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: like they needed they I think that, And I say
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: that not to say I didn't want to write it,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: but it just kind of appeared to me, which was cool.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: So that was very lucky and I'm grateful for that opportunity.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: The reason why I thought I could do it though,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: was that I am just a collector of divinatory tools,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: you know, I've always been super curious about knowing all
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: of these different methods. So I'm not an expert in
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: everything that I wrote about in the book. I would
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: consider myself most expert in astrology in Taro, but you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: there are I've spent a lot of time experimenting on
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: my own with these tools. So when someone you know,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: propositioned me about it, I was like, oh, yeah, I
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: could do that. That sounds fun, you know, so a
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: little daunting. Once I got into it, I was like,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: oh shit, there's a lot. There's a lot here because
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I felt strongly about giving an historical perspective for a
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: lot of these tools in addition to the like the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: practical how to aspect of it, because I think that
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: that's important, so that we're creating connection the lineages of
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: these tools rather than just being like, oh, I'm going
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: to throw runes now. I have no idea what any
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: of this comes from. Like, I'm very against that, but yeah,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I thought that I could do it because I'm a
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: little crazy and I have a lot of mercury, strong
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: mercury energy in my chart. That's what I'll say.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you, hell Is, did you have anything?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think a lot of people are intimidated by
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the crystal ball and they're not sure what they're looking for,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and they're kind of unsure what kind of signs and
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: symbols they're supposed to be looking for in the scrying process.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Is there a way you could help them out on
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: that journey and sort of connect with what they're seeing.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. So I would recommend number one, making
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: sure that you are in a very chill, receptive state
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: before you start any divination practice. Right, some of the
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: worst divination experiences come when we're anxious or when we're
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: really looking for answers and we are trying to control outcomes, right,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: So number one, we have to kind of get grounded
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: and however you like to do that, that's the best
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: way to do it. And I talk about this in
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the book a lot of just like the importance of
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: setting the tone for your space. So number one, calm down.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Number two, I would say that the symbols and signs
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: that are shown to us in something like a crystal
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: ball or a black mirror or a cup of water
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: are almost always going to be the language of the unconscious.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: So it's not going to it's it's oftentimes super kind
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: of essential symbolic information that we're seeing. You see the
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: shape of a letter. You see something that looks like
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: a sword, you see something looks like a rabbit, and
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I want you to not overthink what you see there,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: but take it seriously because when we start saying that
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: what I don't understand what does the sword have to
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: do with this question? That's the symbol that's been presented
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: to you, and it's meant for you to take into
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: your heart and into consideration. I think the other thing
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: about scrying and all forms of divination is that you're
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: not going to get like the lights turned on right away.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes that happens, but very much more often
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: you're going to be in a place of needing to
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: commune with that symbol and integrate it into your experience
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: before it really kind of feels empowering, right, So, I
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: think there can be just a lot of anxiety around
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: doing it the right way. Trust what you see. I
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: think that that's important to do.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. I think recording first and then interpreting later,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: because that's absolutely you're always getting caught up on the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: what you're seeing and trying to figure it out. But
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: even at the Oracle of Delphi, like it was the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: oracle's job to just put all the information out there
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and then it would be interpreted later, and a lot
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: of people get hung up on the simultaneous process of
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: recording and interpreting, which is you know, distracting.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Very Yeah, that's why the oracle had the profides the
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: priests there to take down the you know, the prophecies
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: for her. Yeah, it is a kind of dual like,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: it's a dual nature thing. We're doing something highly irrational
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and then trying to make it sensible to ourselves so
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: that we can actually like answer the question that we
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: post to whatever our tool is, you know. So, yeah,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: it's an exercise like anything else. We have to kind
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: of build the muscle for sure.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: You know when you think of people like I guess,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: taking down, noting what the other person's experiencing whatever, you
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: do get a lot of that with I mean technically
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: that was even Alista Crowley's experience. You know, he dictated
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: to Rose. You see a lot of things that are
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: actually done that way. That's just very interesting to look at.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know, dynamic, h yeah, you see, uh see
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: some interesting stuff come to be from the uh. One
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: thing I did want to ask you do have a
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: lot of methods in this book, you have like taaro astrology, numerology, palmistry, rooms,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: pendulum work, tea leaves, bone throwing, scrying, dream interpretation. How
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: did you decide actually, like which ones were going to
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: be included?
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Again like, yeah, I thought to myself, what are like
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: the classics? What are the classic ones that people jump
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: into first? You know, so you'll notice, like I don't
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: have geomancy in there. I have like at I have
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: like a couple of pages on guomancy, but I'm not
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: teaching people geomancy. But what do people want to know?
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: They want to know how to read their palm, they
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: want to know how to read their tea leaves, like
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: these kinds of you know, these they felt very accessible
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: to me, the methods that I incorporated here, and I
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: want to people to feel like they had a good
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: basis and understanding what I think are the most accepted
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: sort of standardized methods of divination out there. And you
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: can go off and learn geomancy on your own from
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: someone else. But I wanted people to feel like, Okay,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: when you think about divination, you think about you know,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: telling someone's someone's fortune if you don't know anything about it,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: that's how it seems to a person, what does that
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: look like? What does that look like to you? So
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: that's how I put it together. And there are someone
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: there that are way more technical, like I have a
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: chapter on the eaching, and that's a world into itself
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: that was impossible to capture. But I thought that that's
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: it is such a like, it is such an elegant
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: and powerful divination tool that I absolutely think that anyone
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: who's interested in divination should have a relationship with it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: So I included that one that's a little bit you know, trickier,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: you know, So, yeah, it kind of I wanted to
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: give a good breath of tools. The other thing is
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I wanted a lot of different tools because some tools
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: speak to us and some don't. Some people have no
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: patience for astrology, and that's completely fine. Some people think
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: numerology is bogus. That's completely fine, you know. So I
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: wanted people to feel like they could pick this book
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: up and get some.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Use out of it, like I would be interested in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: numerology and not Tea Leaves, So I get it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I think it really comes down to how you connect
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: with the tools that you're using to do the divination
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that's that seems to be one of the things if
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you if you don't feel a connection to it, forcing
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: it's not going to help. So I think having the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: ability to go back and reassess is that the most
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: important part of any divination is because if you're not
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: connecting with it, it's it's a good, you know, opportunity to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: move on. There's a lot out there. I think geomancy,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: for instance, that's almost like the Western form of each right,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: so you can do it flipping a coin, her looking
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: at holes in the dirt, but you know, it's in
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that same sort of style of eaching binary whatever. So
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it's you know, divination can be as easy as flipping
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: a coin. And a lot of people are, you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: superstitious about a lot of these things. But our whole
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: world is sort of translated into binary and if you
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: can connect with that, you're good.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: That was one thing that I thought. I think it
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: was the way you said it last time when you
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: were on the show, when you kind of plug the book.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: You had mentioned a couple of how many you just
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: rambled off a few of them, and I was like, oh, wow,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: that's pretty interesting that she included all those and then
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I asked you to come on and I looked up
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the book Born I was like, damn, she's got a
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: lot in here, and I do think. I mean, that's
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: another reason why I really wanted to get you owned,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: just because my opinion, just from somebody who's been in
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: this myself for for a few years, you do kind
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of cover the basics in the classics. So I was
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: very impressed that you actually did that much.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: So good, thank you, Thank you. Yeah. I think we
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: have to have integrity in our work, and if someone
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: asks me to write a book on divination, I'm definitely
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: going to try my best to make it so that
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: it's a thorough exploration of the art and let people
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: have as many ways of accessing it as possible so
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: that they don't turn away from it. Like I think
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: that these are very useful helpful tools, kind of like
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: what I was saying about astrology. It gives us more
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: ways to understand ourselves. We have a lot of problems
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: in this world, and I don't think that divinations the cure,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: but I do think that having a spiritual or magical
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: practice is going to connect you to yourself and it's
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: going to remind you that you have a soul and
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: that's an important thing to remember these days. So yeah,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you saying that that it does cover the classics,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: and yeah, I hope other people find us there too.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Of course, no real quick too, and then hell, let's
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: read it anything. Out of all the systems in the book,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: are there may be one or two that you would
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: think are especially misunderstood that's so like demonized, like.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I think they're all But okay, So I do think
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: that scrying, like the crystal ball thing, is such a stereotype,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: like of like kind of right, yeah, exactly exactly, So
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I think that that's one answer. And then I also
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: do think that I do think that astrology is really misunderstood.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: And maybe that's my answer because that's my main discipline.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: But you know, when people don't understand astrology, they really
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: don't understand, they really misunderstand it. They really think that
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: it is or that or they think that if you're
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: into it, you're like crazy or you're you're absurd, because
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: what do you mean, you know? The planets and the
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: day that you were born has anything to do with
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: the rest of your life. It has everything to do
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: with it, obviously, but it's such a large claim that
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I think that it's hard for non believers to parse.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: So I think that, you know, maybe I've had the
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: most conversations with people about astrology and that's why it's
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: the top of mind, But I do think that that
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: is an unfairly judged art form and taro too, you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: because people are like, oh, you're just pulling a card.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: You can make anything up that you want. Sure, true,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: you can. But if you're going to a practitioner that
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: you trust, they're informed, they're in touch, and they're reading
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: a symbolic language to you, So no, yeah, thank you.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I find a lot of people don't connect the idea
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of astrology with the idea of the soul, even though
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: your son sign is what gives you that sort of
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: basic symbol that you're sort of having to deal with
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: for the rest of your life, and that sign is
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: called the soul, right, that's the Latin word for it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: So it's like there's an impression that's left that carries
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: through to the other aspects of your life, and that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: insouling process is coming to understand yourself. It goes back
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: to the Delphic maximum number one know thyself these are
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: different aspects that you might not be fully aware of
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that give you the tools that you can deal with
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: some of the things that normally come up associated with
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: these signs. I think a lot of people don't realize
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: that this kind of stuff goes back forty thousand years.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: So as they're observing all of these signs and symbols
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: having to do with these different parts of the year
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and the different elemental qualities of them, what they're doing
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: is they're actually tapping into ancient ancestral knowledge that's been
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: passed down and examined and re examined over and over
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: again throughout time.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's something that I teach in my classes.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: I want people to understand that we're not just doing
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: superficial bubble gum astrology of like oh, passion, I find
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: my next partner, or like what should my job be? Like, Yeah,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: those are important questions. I get it, and you know,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I've wondered that myself a lot in my life. But
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: we have to remember that this is like a tool
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: that does help us find the soul in a really
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: powerful way. And so that's why I really like to
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: bring myth and mythic story into my chart interpretation practice.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: I find that very very helpful for people, especially when
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: working with asteroids, which is kind of like another valance
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: of astrological inquiry. But you know, it's it's just there.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: It's no accident that the planets are named after Olympian gods.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Constellations too, are named after these mythic characters. We need
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: to bring that back into astrological practice in a meaningful way,
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: and that's how people find their own story in their
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: chart a lot of the time. So I feel very
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: strongly about.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: That absolutely, And that asteroid bit is so important because
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: it goes back to the Catholic Church. Again, the Catholic
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Church are the ones who named all of the asteroids.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: We did a great show with the Astrologer where we
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: were talking about how, hey, they're still doing the magic
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: that they say is banned for everybody else, only they're
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: associating it with these asteroids that they track from their
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Lucifer telescope. It's like, what's going on here, guys? I mean,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: so they're kind of keeping it in house and we're
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: just sort of looking in from the outside. But there's
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of really it's like another tumbler, right, So
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you've got the zodiac signs, that would be a tumblr.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: You've got the planets, that's a tumbler, and then the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: asteroids are like another tumbler. So you get a full
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: message when you incorporate all of these different aspects.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. I offer a style of reading where I
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: ask people before they book with me to tell me
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: which stories or fairy tales or meths resonate most of them,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: or characters would archetypal forms, whatever, and they'll give me
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: a list of things, and then I will go. Because
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: there are thousands and thousands of asteroids, We're not going
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: to put all the asteroids in a person's chart to
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: begin with, but I will pick out asteroids that I
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: believe are either resonant or are like a one to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: one correlation. Someone's like, oh, I'm you know, obsessed with
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: like Persephone, like so many people are. I'll put the
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: Persephone asteroids in the chart. It always lands in a
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: significant place for this person, and it is It's like
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: backwards divination. It feels so cool because then I get
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: to come to my sessions and I'm like, you'll never
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: guess what I found. You have this cosmic, faded connection
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: to this character and then we get to explore how
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: the relationship between the asteroid and that planet, you know,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: what they mean for one another, and how you can
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: understand that planet in your chart through the lens of
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: that story. And so you know, Yeah, the astrologer Dimitro George,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: who is like one of my kind of guiding lights,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: says that asteroids are the dimon and we can see
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: diamon in these asteroids connected to the planets, and so
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: it's like a version of that guiding spirit for whatever
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: planet it's connected to. And it's such a fascinating idea.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: It gets it just yeah, goes goes crazy. But yeah,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: I'll stop rambling about asteroids now.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: No. I think it's really important because people don't realize
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: this stuff. Like Edgar Casey, for example, his asteroid that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he was born under was a Scluppy as the healer
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: healed people while he was asleep, you know, and the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: sleeping profit angle is what they call the guy, and
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: you know, it's there's so many different correlations and people
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: are just completely unaware that there's a whole different avenue
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: of astrology that is being used. The astrologer we had
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: on was a forensic astrologer, so she was actually using
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: this data to try to figure out how people died.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: You know, because you got all the data right there,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: why don't you apply that to solving crimes? So really interesting.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll share like one asteroid story. I you know,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: months ago, we were trying to figure out what to
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: name our baby. And that's the biggest deal ever, right
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: because names are spells, and I was like, how do
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: I name a person? What do I do? And it
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: took a really long time to figure it out, and
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: we finally landed on a name, and we chose the
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: name Gabriel for many reasons, and just out of curiosity.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: I had never looked this up before, but I was like,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I bet there's a Gabriel asteroid because he's an archangel.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And I was like, there's got to be a Gabriel asteroid.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: I put it into my chart. It is perfectly conjunct
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: my son. That was that blew me away, same degree,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: almost the same minute. I was in tears. And then
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: I plugged it into my husband's chart to see where
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Gabriel is in his chart, and it was also conjunct
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: his son. But we're born five years apart. He's a
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: scorpio I'm a virgo, like, we don't have that placement
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: in common at all. And so for our kid to
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: have the asteroid for his name conjunct our sons, which is,
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: like you said, soul or essence, it was crazy. It
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: was crazy. So that was really fun and yeah, well
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: that's wild.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: There is something about that nominative determinism where what you're
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: named ends up producing something that you do in life,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people just completely overlook that when
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: it comes to well, what does you know, what does
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a smith do? What is all this other stuff? And
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: it's something that you're burdened with in some cases and in
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: other ways that you're you know, empowered by. So I
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: think naming is very important when it comes to astrology,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: when it comes to divination, the naming process is part
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of the magical process. And this is what in spelling
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: stuff is you know.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what are some of your favorite ones
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: that you put in the book.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: My favorites are going to be obviously astrology, Taro. I
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: care deeply about eachang is. We were already talking about
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: other favorite ones. I have bibliomancy in there, I have
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: dream work in there. Hang on, I'm gonna look at
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: my table of contents because I wrote this a while ago. Yeah,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: I love the bibliomancy Dreams and Scrying chapter. I think
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: that bibliomancy is a really overlooked, very very accessible form
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: of divination for people. And I also really love divining
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: with pendulums. I think that that's another simple but very
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: very revealing tool that people can can make use of.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: So you know those are are my top handful. Yeah, yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And Kats love pendulum scruying too, so much though that
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I can't find my pendulum anymore.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Beans, Beans got you. That's funny. That's a funny character.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: You can't have you ever had an experience in your
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: own practice that genuinely surprised you or changed your understanding
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: of divination.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I think that I have accidentally channeled. This is going
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: to sound crazy, but I feel like I've I always
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I invite in the energy that wants to reveal itself,
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: and so sometimes, especially when reading for people astrologically, like
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: a loved one will come in and that always surprises me.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: And that doesn't happen super often, but the times that
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: it has, it's been like very very strange and very
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: powerful and very affirming of like this practice is not
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: just real but also like important again for that connective
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: ancestral piece of the puzzle, you know. I do find
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: that when I read people's charts and or pull cards
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: for them, when you hit on something without knowing this
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: person at all and just having data in front of
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: you in the form of a chart or just asking
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: them a question, it's really really exciting, even if the
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: story that they're sharing with you is a heavy one.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I always get excited that I get to say, like,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: this is we're affirming this experience because this is shown
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: in the chart or shown in the card that's coming up,
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: you know, So I think that, yeah, on a more
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: grounded level, when we get those hits, which happens often
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: because astrology is so good at pinpointing people's experiences, that's amazing.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: And then you know the surprise element of like a
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: message coming through that's not of the chart, but the
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: chart can be kind of an energetic conto it for
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: That's that's the most surprising thing that happens.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Have you ever gotten like somebody's chart and looked at
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it and be like, oh, wow, this is already good,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Like it looked interesting already, Like oh this might be
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a good one.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, oh for sure, I mean yes, yeah.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: But you know it's funny too because you can look
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: at it chart and it can look really really boring,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: and the person that shows up can be bonkers. Like
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: it can look like, oh, what's this all looks fine?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: You know I've read for people, for example, who have like,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: in astrology, we have this this doctrine of like rulership
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: and astrological tradition says that in order for a planet
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: to be functioning at its best, it should be in
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: its sign of domicile or exaltation, meaning like aligned with
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: the sign that it's assigned to basically, and like with
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: that philosophy, the best charts are the ones where people
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: have planets in their home sign. For me, I find
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: that people who have like every single like of their
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: you know, personal planets in their sign of domicile, they
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: can have them like a big struggle. And I don't
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: really know why. I don't know what that's about, but
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: you know, so I think that looks can be deceiving,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: But I can always tell when a chart does look
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: like it's a little bit of like a lightning bul
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: for a person to live with for sure, but you
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: can also be tricked by a really calm looking chart. Yeah,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: if I see uranus on the ascendant or descendant, I
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: know that I'm going to have a wacky conversation with
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: someone and it's gonna be great.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: That's funny. I gotta look at mine now. Oh jeez.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Wait, what are your guys signs?
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: How many areas? Nice?
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Nice? Wow? So you guys are polar opposites on the spectrum.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah cool, it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Seems to be the only people I get along with.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: That's cool. Well, that's good to reach for the other
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: that's what you're supposed to do as a libras.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: So you know, nice dadlas, Did you have anything you
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: wanted to ask?
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Well, there's there's a lot more to that water divination
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: than people even know. Like right now, Uh, there's a
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: woman named Beta Austin on Instagram that does this thing
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: where she, uh you is these plates of water, these
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: like Petri dishes. She asks the question, puts it in
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: the freezer and then a glyph will emerge in the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: ice as it's freezing, and so she'll pull it out
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: and like you know, take pictures of it. And sometimes
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: these things are just strikingly similar to the objects or
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: the questions that she's asking, Like she's got pictures all
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: of our instagram of this, so it almost seems like
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: there's a memory to the water. And if we're made
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: of ninety percent water, you know by volume, what's that
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: mean about us? Like we're repositories of this early memory.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: And I think in a lot of ways, the scrying
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: and all the rest of these aspects are just sort
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: of connecting with that water memory that is within us.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: And you know, also the planets are shaping the energies
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: that are hitting that water. So it's it almost is
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: the through line between all of it.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, ok ahead.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: There was you know when you talk about that, you know,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: with the whole water thing, there's something that I covered.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I forgot exactly which place it was. I covered a
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: few different places on this show that's coming out soon
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: with like places with the neuro architecture and like the
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: somatics all that stuff, And there was one that it
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: was severe enough to where they said that it would
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: definitely affect your bones and your skull. And then when
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: you think about that, your brains surrounded by water, what's
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: happening then if you getting vibrations smacking your skull had
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: enough to affect that, just wonder what stuff's going on,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the side of a person's body might. After
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: someone finishes Divination for Dummies, what do you hope changes
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in the way they see symbols ritual in their own
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: inner life.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: I hope they feel like they have access to it
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: and like they have renewed confidence and the fact that
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: they get to build relationship with it going forward. So
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I think that one one of the most important parts
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: of the book to me. It's you know, yes, like
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: I have these kind of core chapters on different divination
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: techniques that a person can learn, but I also spend
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of time in the book talking about how
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: to bring divination into your creative practice. I think that
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: divination and art are really important to hold together. I
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: talk a lot about personal ritual and how to facilitate
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: good ritual hygiene, good energetic hygiene for yourself, you know.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: So I think that this book differs maybe from other
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: handbooks in that you're getting the how to guide, but
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: then I kind of wanted to create like a scaffolding
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: for people around it, so you're not just picking up
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: a book on how to read a poem and walking
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: away from it, but you have like tools and steps
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: and like, you know, suggestions of how to incorporate it
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: into your life. That's always what I like to do
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: with my people that I read for. It's like, how
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: do we get this off the screen or off the
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: page and make it embodied? And so I hope that
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: that's what the book is going to be able to
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: do for people. That was like a really important piece
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: of the puzzle for me, right, that.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: That spiritual hygiene aspect is so important. What are your
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: practices in engaging in spiritual hygiene before and after divination?
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Because you know, clearing after is often more important than
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: clearing before.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I really like the days that I don't clear after,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I put myself up for the rest of the day,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: I will say, because sometimes we're in a rush and
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: that's what happens. But before before I sit down, I
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: like to call in my own guides, Right, I do
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: a lot of kind of visualization of my space. I
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: like to cast a dome over myself before I start
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: reading for somebody to just create a create an energetic barrier,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: you know, I think that that is the most important
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: thing that I do. I also like to read accompanied
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: by some talismanic objects that I think are grounding or guiding,
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: And you know, I work with certain fixed stars and
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: certain other deities and like to have that in the
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: mix just to kind of keep everything aligned and protected.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: And you know, even for something as conversational maybe and
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: social as an astrology reading can be right because you're
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: making jokes, you're talking about your life, you're sharing about
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: your past. It can feel kind of normal, but we're
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: actually doing work that's really magical, and we are reaching
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: into the energetic space between us. So I invite my
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: clients to also like ground in with me, imagine that
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: protective layer around them, and then afterwards for clearing, I
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: do have like a mist that I like to use
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: in my space to attribute it to a fixed star,
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: and I like to really just do like a grounding
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: check in with my body and just like imagine I'm
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: peeling off that conversation because it sticks with you, you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: even if it's not a heavy one, I wind up
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: thinking about that person's story for the rest of the
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: day probably regardless. But yeah, those so those are my attempts.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Right, that energetic hygiene is is what I think a
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: lot of people miss in their everyday lives anyway. You know,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's like, if you're not clearing off that negative
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: energy that people are carrying around with them, you're carrying
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: it too. It's very contagious in a lot of ways.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: People know that, you know, I mean they could feel
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that from other people, but they just don't associate it. Well,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: maybe this is what you got to do to get
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: rid of that energy so it's not stuck to you
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: all the time. And uh yeah, I think I think
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: that's very important. You know, you don't want to live
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: somebody else's life that they're carrying around with themselves.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, you know, I even remember, I mean,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: regardless of that's what your opinion of it was. Even
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: during I remember going grocery shopping during COVID, it was
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: like calling back home. I was like, I feel like
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I just came home with everybody's fucking anxiety and feel
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you walked into the place and you just felt it.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck, I just want to get
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: out of you.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: It's it's so real. It's such a real thing. Yeah, So.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Would you mind if maybe I asked you, like, maybe
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: like one or two certain types of divination that maybe
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: we could talk about. Yeah. Yeah, as cheesy as it is,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I am interested in you doing the bone to us
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: and talking about that.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, So I want to say something about that this
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: and this is no shape to my publisher, But they
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: had that in the description of the book, and I've
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: told them a few times that that's not in the
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: book because that's a close practice, Hi kitty, Okay, So
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: that is a question mark for me. What I do
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: do in the book is charm casting, Right, So I
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: talk about bone throwing and you know, it's origin and
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. But then I'm like, this is a
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: close practice we're going to talk about. We're going to
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: talk about how to make your own set of charms
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: and how to cast them. So that's an awkward answer,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: but that's the honest answer.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Hell's did you have one maybe you wanted to ask about?
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah. So one of the things that I like
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: to do is or a viewing, right, and more viewing,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: especially when it comes to natural landscapes, can really give
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: you a deeper insight into what's around you. Would you
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: consider or viewing to be a form of divination? Oh?
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, absolutely, Yeah, anything where you're communing with
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: you know, that kind of symbolic insight, especially from something
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: natural and or supernatural, is definitely divination in my book. Right,
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: So you're scanning the landscape and looking for what the
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: quality of that environment is, and it's going to give
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: you information about what you're surrounded by. I think that's
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: a really cool idea and definitely a divinatory form.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Definitely helps with weather prediction, I'll tell you that much.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: You can cool to see a store store goverment from
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: days off and things like that. So it's yeah, it's
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: it's very physically grounding too when you're actually you know,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: taking that in. But you know, I think that kind
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of goes into clouds as well. You've got the idea
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: that clouds making shapes in the sky have a certain
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: meaning or something like that, and I think a lot
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: of people miss the idea that the clouds are taking
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: in your energy as well as putting out energy of
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: its own. So there's there's an interchange between the two.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, as above so below right, that's how it all.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Works exactly, especially with animals, you know, I mean they're
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: picking up on your energy as well as you know,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: giving you their their energy as well. So all of
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: these things are sort of part of living the divinatory life,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: you know. I think that's that's the key too, is
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: like being in touch with your environment means having that
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: divinatory connection.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. Yeah, yeah for sure. And that's
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: why I love astrology as like a starter divinatory slash
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: magical practice because it gives you a literal like language
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: for understanding like venus means, you know, embodiment, values, pleasure
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: of beauty, and then we look for the Venusian in
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: the world around us. I think that writing a book
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: like Divination for Dummies was a funny task because I
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: think that I was just It's like we're giving people
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: lots of different ways to do the same thing, which
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: is to commune with their intuition, their guides and the
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: information that is kind of held in nature or in
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: the supernatural. And you don't have to have a codified
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: form in order to do that, right, Like you can
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: literally be just in relationship with archetypal forms and know
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: when you see, like I'll see a cloud that looks
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: jubytarian to me, can I describe what that means?
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: Maybe it looks very grand it looks very kingly, and
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, there's a jubiterarian energy in this part
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: of my day and I'm going to enjoy that, you know.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: So like learning how to read your environment and read
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: the world that way can be really I think empowering
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: and just yeah, we're working with ancient primordial forms, as
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: un calls it, the archetypes, right, so we all have
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: relationship with it, whether or not we realize it. And
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: that's what I think divination reminds us of, regardless if
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: you're doing tea leaves or palmistry or ruins, whatever it is.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it's funny that you named it,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: you know, divination for dummies, because having a highly associated
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: mind actually expands and creates better memory in the brain.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: So basically, if you're starting out Divination for Dummies, you're
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: not going to finish the book as it It's gonna
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: be that simple.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: That's the hope, and no one's a dummy who picks
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: it up. It's that's the book series title. And I
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: think that it's so misleading because you know, no one
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: wants to feel like they're a dummy, but it's signifying
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: like this is the beginner's introduction invitation into this topic. Yeah,
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: and hopefully you are very enlightened when you're done.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: I like that one question I did have, and I just, uh,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I think this is an interesting question. Actually, what does
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: a mature differ diviner understand that a beginner usually doesn't
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: mm hmm.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: It's a great question, and I'm sure we all have
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: an answer to it too, but I think, right, yeah,
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: it's like a great, a great practitioner question. I think
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: that the mature dive knows very well that even if
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: you divine a message, or you read a symbol, or
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: you see an astrological transit, that is not the end
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: of the relationship that you have. With that question. When
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: you're a younger diviner and you pull a carot card,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: you pull the death card, you're asking a question about
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: a relationship, you feel a sense of doom because you
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: don't really yet understand what it means to be in
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: relationship with that archetype or with that idea, and it
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: can feel very limiting. And I think that's what scares
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: a lot of people off from divination too. It's like
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: the interpretation is one of finality, and so when we
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: are more mature in our practices, we know that the
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: answer we receive is usually about our contemporary relationship or
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: our current relationship with the answer to that question because
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: we're always going to keep changing. And I think that
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: that's really unsatisfying for people to hear, because I'll tell
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: them that when you know, especially with astrological transits too,
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: and like this moment sucks, it will get better. Look
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: at the sky literally clears in nine months, but nobody
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: wants to wait nine months for things to get better
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: for Saturn takeet off of their son or their ascendant,
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: you know, so it can sting. But yeah, I think
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: that that's what I would say. What would you guys
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: say is the answer to that question?
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail on the head. That
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: limiting factor is where superstition comes in, you know, and
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of times divination gets equated with
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: superstition because people think that it's limiting your life into
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: this series of forums or whatever, but it really doesn't
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: have to be. I think what I suggest everybody do
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: is go listen to as they're getting into astrology, go
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: listen to the orphic hymns, because the orphic hymns have
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of the ideas in that we're talking about,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: and then how to move past it. So all of
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: these myths are not dead ends. They're continual stories, and
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: that's that's something that you know is delimiting when it
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: comes to divination.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: I was thinking for myself, Uh, I think the best
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: way to word it, Uh, there may be times in
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: the past where I wanted to kind of like tell
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: myself maybe I was correct, But I think if I'm
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: honest and actually evaluate when I'm wrong, I will actually
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: have a better understanding down the road. I just think
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, just in my my opinion, I
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: myself and others. Sometimes I think we mind fuck ourselves
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit too much with this stuff at the
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: beginning and believe everything we're always right. May not always
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: be that way, but I think, like for me, there's
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: been times where I would see a pattern and then realize, oh,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: this is where I keep getting that one thing wrong.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: So now I know because I was honestly looking at
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: my shit and not telling myself, oh yeah I was,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I fucking nailed that. No I didn't, you know,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: So I think maybe, uh, being wrong or screwing things
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: up isn't always bad. You can learn from that, you know.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's also too why it's good to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: have other people read for you, because the pressure of
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: reading for yourself can sometimes be a mind fuck, as
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: you say, and like I barely pull cards for myself,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: and I kind of don't look at my own transits
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: until something crazy is happening, and I'm just like, great
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: here I am, you know, because I do think that
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: we import our own biases a lot into our own
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: self divination. So having divination friends that you can trust,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: who can be objective, or just people that you admire
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: and trust, teachers you know that are honest people is
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: really really crucial to.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Great stuff. Was there anything else headless that you wanted
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: to ask, talk about and bring up before we.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: So we do a remote viewing show on Thursdays, and
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: I was wondering, what would your advice be on how
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: to get the most accurate remote viewing pictures.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know, that's a cool question. I don't know.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not a remote viewer, but that sounds like an amazing,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: amazing activity.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's a lot like divination. It's very very similar to so.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. I've just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: never experimented with it, So what tell me what happens.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Well, we just have pictures that we've taken and we
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: put them into envelopes, or we put the information into envelopes.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: We shuffle them up to where we don't know which
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: one is which, and then you know, we pull them.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: We go through the concentration relaxation exercise, and then people
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: write down their impression that they're getting, whether it's sensory
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and then we go back over them at
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: the end of the show and see how accurate those
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: impressions are of the things that we've taken pictures of.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: Cool. Wait, so I have done this. That's cool? Yeah
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: you have?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Everybody has. Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm sure she's probably done something close
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, So, I mean I've only done it once.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: And Jesus, I don't know how to answer this question,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: but like, really just feeling into that visual space here
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: was what I was kind of working with. I do
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: think there's a lot of like embodied information, but for me,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: it was like a very whatever visual experience to experiment
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: with that. So this is not an articulate answer, but
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I hope that everyone sees the things that they're meant
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: to see in their.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Practice, right, you know, if people are visual learners or
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: auditory learners. What I try to do in the relaxation
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: is to go through all the senses and see if
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: you're getting any impressions from your different senses as you're
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: concentrating on these different pictures.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great, that's awesome.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, I think did you have anything else that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: you wanted to ask Christina? Anything else you can say
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: about the book?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that you know about the book in general,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: I think that I really want people to feel like
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: they can pick this up at any at any level,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: but it's especially beginner friendly, and so, you know, I
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: don't know who if I feel like your audience are
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: not necessarily beginner types, I feel like you have tuned
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: in magical audience.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong I think beginners now, but yeah, some
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: of them I think are already like yeah.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So you know, I think that
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: what the book means to me as a practitioner is
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: again kind of like giving us a basis to understand
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: how we can live that divinatory life. Like Heedless was saying,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, that is one of the most
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: important things to me to teach people to do it.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: Doesn't matter what modality you're using, but knowing that this
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: is an ancient tradition, this is something that people have
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: always done cross culturally. There is we were talking about,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: you know, Greco Roman stuff, but culture is the world over.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: It's a human instinct to divine from nature, from you know,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: the alphabet, from numbers, whatever, and so that is something
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: that was kind of taken from us due to Enlightenment philosophy,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: which brought us a lot of good stuff, but also
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: totally stripped the collective of access to this sort of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: ancient information, ancient wisdom. And a big part of my
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: project is kind of reminding people of that. I feel
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: like I've probably done this for multiple lifetimes by accident,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: you know. So it's important for me for people to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: feel like they have as natural a pipeline to it
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: as someone else. They perceive being like a magical practitioner,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: And it's really about fine tuning the art of noticing. Yes,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: there's some memorization, some symbolic alphabets to know, you know,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: but a great place to start would be this book.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: And you are like the strongest tool. Your dreams are
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: one of the strongest divinatory tools you know that you've
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: got with you. So I think that that's my main
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: takeaway is that I want people to feel really supported
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: in whatever kind of reclamation they want to do with divination.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Write it all down, too, Write it all down, because
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: when you wake up and you've got to go to
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: the bathroom and you've just had a great dream, it's
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: going to be gone by the time you're done. Yeah,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: write it all down.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, Yeah. I have like in my you're good, Well, I.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Just wanted to ask, what's your favorite book to use
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: for bibliomancy?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: It depends on my question, and it depends on the mood.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Sometimes if I'm feeling chaotic, I'll grab whatever book off
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: my shelf because then I consider that part of the divination, right,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: And I don't category. I don't organize my books. They're
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: like in a jumble on my shelf, so there's no
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: rhyme or reason to what I'm pulling when I pull.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: But I do think that supportive books for divination are
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: always going to be books of poetry because they give
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: us these compressed, crystallized images and lines that are easier
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: to pluck from than like maybe a novel if we're
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: just getting started, or you know, divination I mean sorry,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: bibliomancy was practiced a lot with the Bible for you know,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: thousands of years, and so that's like a classic. But
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: that's not going to speak to everyone, and that's going
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: to carry its own sort of dogma with it. So
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: we can be super intentional, I think, or you can
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: be a little bit of a chaotic magician and pick
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: whatever is lying around. But you know, the idea that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: whatever your eye lands on first is the answer is
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: also kind of hard for some people because sometimes you
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: land on something that seems totally unrelated to what your
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: question is. But I urge you to keep that phrase
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: with you and see how it emerges. Yeah, someone's commenting,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Red Book is great for bibliomancy. I'm sure. I'm sure
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: that's true. A lot of profound stuff in that book.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, keep on here.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But what if we don't have to reach
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: for the most profound thing all the time, Like what
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: if it's total what if it's like you're divining with
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: like a Marx Brothers movie, you know, Like, I don't know,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: I think it can be anything. I'm serious, So.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I like that that's good all right, I think you
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: have less unless you got anything else, I think we
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: can wrap it up there. Thank you very much for
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: coming on, Christina. That was fun, that was enjoyable.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was fun. Yeah good. I'm hoping it was
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: a good listen and great conversation.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, head Liss. So why don't you let everybody know
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: where they can find all your amazing stuff?
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, you can find me on x and
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: also on Instagram and YouTube, so I check those out.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: And tomorrow we've got another remote viewing show coming up
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: and I've got the pictures so ready to go. So
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: they definitely checked that out. And if you wouldn't learn
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: how to remote view, that's the place to do it
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: because it's viewer participation as well.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: So it's pretty fun. It's definitely fun. You've gotten some
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: people get some real good ones too, So.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: That's really tight, tight associations.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, Man, if I didn't fuck up that
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: one and I would have like really literally put down
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: what I had, I would have been spot on with Walmart.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: I was so pissed, Yeah, freak. I was like, oh man,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I don't know. For some reason,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I felt stupid like, yeah, I put Supermarket. I don't
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: want to tell people to go to Walmart when everybody
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: fucking goes there. Anyway, All right, Christina, anything else that
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: you'd like to mention when you want to plug any
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: of your sites, remind the people of the book. Yeah,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: is the book? I'm so sorry to ask this. Is
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: it out already or not? No to I didn't think
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: it was. I didn't think Okay, don't worry.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: No, it's all goods. It's up for pre order now,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: which is actually a really awesome time for people to
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: buy it because it shows the publisher that people are
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: interested in it. So it's always excellent to grab it
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: in the pre order time period. And you can find
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: it on really any major book retailer that you like
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: to buy your books from. If you have an indie
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: bookstore in your neighborhood, you can have it ordered there.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: You don't have to order it from a big, mega
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: conglomerate bookstore from the internet if you don't want to.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: And yeah, so it's coming out April twenty eighth, and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: I can't wait. I don't have copies of it yet.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to see it myself. I don't even
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it feels, don't feel really yet. I'm
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: just like, what's going on? So yeah, that comes at
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: April twenty eighth Divination for Dummies. I'll be delighted if
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: anyone snacks a copy. And you can find me on Instagram.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: My handle is eighth House Astro. My website is Christinafarrella
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: dot com and I'm also in substack as eighth House Astrology,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: so you can find me in those three main places.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you so much. Yeah, as soon as we
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: get off the show, I'll take a forgot to put
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: the notes in from the list one, I'll put your
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: links writing.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: That's perfect, ye, perfect, yeah.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Because they are in the other one. Thank you very
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: much for coming on again. I really appreciate it. Hopefully
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: we'll have another conversation with you in the future about
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: something else.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course, and thank you everybody in the chat.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: That's what's up. I had a great time. I appreciate
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: all the comments and any questions, and that's why we
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: go live. And until the next one, everybody be well later.