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Home Invasion · Politix

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look back on it,
• 0:01
  like it was Trump in a Fox News interview was getting asked all
• 0:05
  these like leading
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: questions.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, will you like release all the files on JFK?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, yes, absolutely.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when he asked about Epstein, he was like, you know, I don't know.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 0:14
  So like Trump personally clearly always had like a concern
• 0:19
  about this issue.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is, I think, why it like it cannot be unwound.
• 0:31
  Hey everyone,
• 0:32
  you're listening to a free preview of the Politics Podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This week, Washington, D.C.
• 0:36
  is under federal occupation after Donald Trump commandeered the
• 0:40
  city's police force
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: and deployed federal agents and National Guardsmen to patrol D.C.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: streets.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll discuss the affront to D.C.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: sovereignty,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: the supposed reasons Trump is doing this,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: and what the opposition's response should be.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Then,
• 0:55
  to the extent that Trump does hope to use this to distract the
• 0:59
  country by ginning
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: up unrest in the Capitol,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: what is he hoping to distract us from?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the weakening economy?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the Epstein cover?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: A bit of both?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear that part of the conversation,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: you can upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Boyler.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Matthew Iglesias.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a question for you, Matt.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you were a victim of DC street violence,
• 1:29
  why didn't you use your connections to Barack Obama to
• 1:32
  federalize MPD and put DEA
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: agents on the vandalism beat and maybe get the National Guard called up?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I actually did.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody...
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've been in Maine all summer,
• 1:45
  but I got a report from a neighbor that somebody had broken
• 1:50
  into my garage,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: and they stole my e-bike.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that happened two weeks ago, and now the National Guard is in place.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did they break into the garage?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Through like a door?
• 2:05
  They climbed over my fence,
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  got into the backyard,
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  went into the garage from the back.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's the second time this has happened in the past four years.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I favor tough on crime measures.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: I do have to say.
• 2:21
  You could just move up to the tree-lined streets of 16th Street
• 2:24
  Heights where
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: there's much less crime.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: so I will say also Big Balls,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: who was seemingly assaulted in the cycle that started this all off,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: that incident was about two blocks from my house,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: down on 14th and Swan.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I mean, what am I gonna say?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can I do an earnest take about this?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go ahead.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so...
• 2:49
  The federal government,
• 2:50
  you know,
• 2:50
  has an unusual level of interplay with D.C.
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  Some of that is because the National Park Service and other
• 2:58
  instrumentalities of
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: the federal government own such a large share of the land.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of that is because the entire court system in Washington, D.C.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: is federally controlled, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: D.C.
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  SPEAKER_02: is not a state.
• 3:11
  And so under the,
• 3:14
  we have home rule that Trump is abrogating,
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  but even under home rule,
• 3:19
  right?
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  It's like Congress has delegated a bunch of legislative and
• 3:24
  administrative
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: authority to the DC government,
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  SPEAKER_02: but the courts are still instrumentalities of the federal government.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So the judges are confirmed by the Senate.
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  The local prosecutions that would normally be done by a
• 3:39
  district attorney are done by the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_02: Attorney's Office.
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  And the parole and pretrial supervision services are also done
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  by a federal agency.
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  SPEAKER_02: So there's,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: a lot that you could do if you just decided,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: right,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: in a spate of earnestness as the president of the United States.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Washington, D.C.
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  SPEAKER_02: is an unusually high-crime American city.
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  It has a substantially higher murder rate than New York or
• 4:10
  Boston,
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  San Francisco.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's sort of, like, when you think of, like,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: big liberal coastal cities.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: DC has a much higher rate of crime than the other ones.
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  It has a level of violence that is much more typical of a
• 4:25
  low-income southern city.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's closer to Memphis or New Orleans or something like that,
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  SPEAKER_02: despite being quite a bit richer than those cities.
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  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's like a...
• 4:37
  serious issue that and there's existing federal involvement and
• 4:41
  authorities and
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: things like that.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 4:45
  on the level of we're going to deploy some federal law
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  enforcement resources to do
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: like extra street sweeps and stuff like that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think like, frankly, almost any D.C.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: mayor would have welcomed that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's just like free stuff.
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  SPEAKER_02: like extra manpower.
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  SPEAKER_02: And there's all this shit, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_02: still in all this talk,
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  SPEAKER_02: like I think 25,
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  20% of superior court roles are just unfilled because the
• 5:18
  Senate hasn't wanted to
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  SPEAKER_02: use calendar time on confirming the judges.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you had more judges in place,
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  like you could put people on trial faster and like actually
• 5:28
  like move these arrests
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  SPEAKER_02: and accomplish something.
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  What any of this has to do with putting the local police
• 5:36
  department under the
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  SPEAKER_02: president's direct control,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: nobody can explain to me.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like,
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  SPEAKER_02: I've been,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: asking my tough-on-crime conservative friends,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: and they were all like,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: the libs are in denial,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: crime in D.C.
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  SPEAKER_02: really is very high, which I, like, I sort of agree with.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: But, like...
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see the relationship between like,
• 6:00
  we should make crime be lower in DC and we are going to take
• 6:04
  operational command of
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  SPEAKER_02: the police department by the president of the United States.
• 6:07
  I mean I think that what you're saying is that there are many
• 6:10
  ways to intuit that
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  SPEAKER_00: Trump's stated bases for doing this aren't in good faith,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  Like you could – you did a really good granular assessment of
• 6:21
  like what in theory
• 6:22
  Trump could have done if his real goal was just improving
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  public safety in
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  SPEAKER_00: Washington,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: D.C.,
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  SPEAKER_00: short of deploying federal officers and then even worse –
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  SPEAKER_00: federalizing the local police force.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you could also just listen to what he said.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was like, our city's disgusting and crime is out of control.
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  SPEAKER_00: And those things are just not true.
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  And you wouldn't say them if you were trying to help the mayor
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  solve a thorny
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  SPEAKER_00: policy problem that stems from DC's lack of fair sovereignty.
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  I think if Donald Trump were an earnest person or if Barack
• 7:00
  Obama or Joe Biden had
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  SPEAKER_00: had approached the D.C.
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  SPEAKER_00: mayor in their terms and said,
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  SPEAKER_00: hey,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  could you use some help from federal law enforcement to
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  increase street patrols?
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that they would have said, yeah, that would be helpful.
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  I think they would have said,
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  look,
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  people are going to respond to that poorly.
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  Um,
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  so let's not make that,
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  uh,
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  our,
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  our,
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  our first move,
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  our top priority.
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  Why don't you devote a little bit of effort to trying to get
• 7:28
  the Senate to confirm the judges?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you increase, uh, uh, statehood as a priority?
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  SPEAKER_00: And then if,
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  SPEAKER_00: if like you,
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  SPEAKER_00: if you,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: run into a brick wall and that stuff,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: then we can talk about,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
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  SPEAKER_00: like the,
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  SPEAKER_00: the long arm of the feds coming in to,
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  SPEAKER_00: to serve as street cops here.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, I, I,
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  In a situation where there was some sort of political buy-in
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  from the district
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  SPEAKER_00: leadership on increased policing,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that we would be doing an episode about this.
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  We're doing the episode because I think we both know it's meant
• 8:06
  to be a slap in the face.
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  SPEAKER_00: We know that Trump has ulterior motives for doing this,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we know that he just at some level likes –
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  getting one over on people like you and me when we have no
• 8:19
  defenders and no recourse.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's just doing it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And what are we going to do about it?
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  Well,
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  I mean,
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  I guess I would put this a little bit differently,
• 8:25
  but it's that like,
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  One of the most aggravating things about living with Donald
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  Trump is that he never
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  SPEAKER_02: wants to be,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: agreeable and well-liked,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
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  So,
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  like,
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  one thing that has happened as part of this initiative is the
• 8:44
  U.S.
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  SPEAKER_02: Park Police was tasked with addressing graffiti in federal parks, right?
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  So he's like,
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  put park police agents out there to,
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  like,
• 8:52
  get rid of graffiti in parkland.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now,
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  SPEAKER_02: a person who doesn't live in DC and is not,
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: familiar with the situation is going to see now,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: formerly gross public spaces getting cleaned up,
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  SPEAKER_02: thanks to Donald Trump's decisive action here.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna hear Trump be like, we're fixing this disgusting city.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now,
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  SPEAKER_02: the reality,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: if you are familiar with DC,
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: there's a good map on the Washington Post,
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  like the federal government just like controls a huge amount of
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  like rinky dink,
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  SPEAKER_02: patches of public space all throughout the District of Columbia.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like,
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  SPEAKER_02: not just Rock Creek Park and the National Mall,
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  SPEAKER_02: but like traffic circles,
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  SPEAKER_02: all these random little triangles everywhere.
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  SPEAKER_02: They've controlled that forever.
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  And they have always done a terrible job of upkeep on those
• 9:45
  things,
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  because
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  SPEAKER_02: The National Park Service,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_02: if you think about who goes to work at the National Park Service,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to somebody at the National Park Service yesterday,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: and,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: her passion is fucking national parks,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's why she works at the National Park Service.
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  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: like,
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  SPEAKER_02: the people who work there are just,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: not that interested in the,
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: small-scale urban parks,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this has been, like, a big lingering problem forever.
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  And Mayor Bowser and her predecessor and her predecessor's
• 10:17
  predecessor have many
• 10:19
  times complained about the lack of maintenance at the small
• 10:22
  federal parks.
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  SPEAKER_02: They've asked for sovereignty of the parks to be transferred to DC.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: They've asked for DC to be a state.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: They've asked for the Park Service to plow the fucking streets.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't, like, shovel.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's a big problem, you know?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And, like, Donald Trump could have said, hey, you know what?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to some people about this,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: and three,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: four,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: seven mayors straight are correct about this.
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  The federal government has not been doing its job of making
• 10:54
  these parks be clean
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: and nice,
• 10:56
  have a nice joint press conference with the mayor and the head
• 10:59
  of the D.C.
• 11:00
  Department of Parks and Recreation,
• 11:02
  talk about how we're going to address this going forward.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, like, that would be better in some ways.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of liberals,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I would be sitting here typing on Twitter,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: it's really good that Donald Trump finally did this after Joe Biden,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Barack Obama,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 11:18
  couldn't be bothered to actually care about the city that they
• 11:21
  and their staff were
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: living in.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, Trump doesn't do that.
• 11:24
  Instead,
• 11:24
  he comes and he's like,
• 11:25
  the mayor has let this city become disgusting.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And like, no, it's like not in her control.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like, suddenly I'm going to go clean it up.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: it's designed not just to kind of like stick it to you and me,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: but like to get us to complain.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he, so now he like, he wants to have a fight.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we should fight him on it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like we should.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's offensive.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we should fight him on what?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:53
  It's like,
• 11:53
  I'm not going to fight him on cleaning up the graffiti in the
• 11:56
  parks.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like for lying to the public about what his objectives here are.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:02
  You know,
• 12:02
  like it's,
• 12:04
  you know,
• 12:05
  not just to fact check him,
• 12:07
  but to tell him to fuck off.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's why, I mean, I want to fight him about taking control.
• 12:12
  of the police department because like that's the part that I'm
• 12:16
  not in favor of.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have an anecdote for you.
• 12:21
  I have an anecdote for you because I don't even think that the
• 12:23
  like assigning park
• 12:24
  police to paint over graffiti is going to accomplish much
• 12:27
  because we've been
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: watching this.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: We live near like a bridge in the park that like
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: if you're on the trail,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: you're walking underneath it and the,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: the walls on either side of the bridge are covered in graffiti.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a graffiti artist who seems to go by Pez Boy,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: who had established dominance and,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: under this bridge.
• 12:51
  And then one day we walked by and some new graffiti artists had
• 12:55
  painted over the,
• 12:57
  um,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: the Pez Boy graffiti.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, how did he accomplish that?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: the third time,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: we went by it again a few days later,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: and it had been completely painted over,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: presumably by the park police.
• 13:07
  And so what seems to be happening is the park police is
• 13:09
  expending a lot of
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: resources to cover up existing graffiti.
• 13:12
  only for the graffiti artists to come back and re-graffiti the
• 13:15
  same places and on
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: and on and on.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, is that a good use of anyone's time?
• 13:19
  Like maybe Barack Obama and Joe Biden had the insight that
• 13:22
  painting over graffiti
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: when you – like there's a supply-demand issue here.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You need to decrease the supply of – or the demand – yeah,
• 13:31
  the supply of graffiti artists in the city if you actually want
• 13:34
  graffiti to go
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: down,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: and that's just not –
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: like, something that they can control.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably not even something that DC police can control.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know what?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's just gonna be some fucking graffiti.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a city.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll see what happens.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, you know, some other aspects of this.
• 13:50
  A different Washington Post graphic that I did not like as much
• 13:53
  shows that,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: DC has one of the highest...
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: ratios of police officers to residents of any American city.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you talk to people in city government,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 14:06
  one reason for that is that NPDC has a lot of resource
• 14:11
  requirements related to the
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: federal government.
• 14:15
  You know,
• 14:15
  like,
• 14:16
  there's all these motorcades,
• 14:18
  you know,
• 14:18
  zipping around all the time.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it's like a...
• 14:24
  a unique set of resource drains related to that,
• 14:28
  which isn't,
• 14:29
  like,
• 14:29
  a bad thing.
• 14:30
  Obviously,
• 14:30
  the city would not be better off if the federal government left
• 14:33
  town.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: they're not,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 14:37
  available for doing regular police work in the way that you
• 14:41
  might normally think.
• 14:44
  The House budget,
• 14:45
  right,
• 14:46
  long ago passed this provision that is going to prevent the
• 14:54
  D.C.
• 14:54
  government from spending the full amount of our own tax dollars
• 14:59
  on our own city
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: government,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: which is going to make it hard to cover overtime for our city cops,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Senate Republicans, after this passed, were like, OK, no, we agree.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is bad.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: We will fix it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Trump put out a statement that was like, they should fix this.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then House Republicans just didn't do it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they've never done it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's never been revisited.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a huge problem for D.C.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a huge problem for D.C.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: agencies.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a problem for D.C.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: cops.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: amidst all this hullabaloo and,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna clean up D.C.,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Trump is not...
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: addressing this at all.
• 15:36
  There's like a huge sum of money that is being locked up by
• 15:40
  House Republicans in
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: legislation that they passed over Democrats objections.
• 15:44
  And that's like going to make it impossible to maintain regular
• 15:50
  city services.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So like, again, I don't want to.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, OK, it's like.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's very frustrating, I guess.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, you know, you know,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: In a way,
• 16:04
  what I want to impress on listeners is stuff like this is the
• 16:10
  median experience of
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: tyranny,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you talk about tyranny and people think,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: ethnic cleansing or work camps or whatever.
• 16:20
  And like,
• 16:21
  sure,
• 16:21
  that can be a part of it at the extreme,
• 16:23
  but really it's just like,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: you all are lesser citizens and we're going to fuck with you.
• 16:27
  And you're,
• 16:28
  all you're going to be able to do is kind of whine impotently
• 16:30
  about it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a terrible feeling to live with,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: like that,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: that you,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: you aren't actually a free and equal person relative to other citizens.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I like,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: given that there's like this limbo that we're in where we need to like,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: is there something that can be done?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am curious what,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: The cops can do,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: because I got to imagine that in this police force,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: there are plenty of MPD officers who are not ride or die Trumpers.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Trump sicked a mob on their on their colleagues,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: some of whom died or were injured,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I should say.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think any MPD officers died, but I want to check that.
• 17:12
  And also Trump is responsible for the problems they're going to
• 17:16
  have getting over time.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And Trump just shit talks their city.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like now he's going to come in and,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: assume control,
• 17:28
  activate the National Guard when he wouldn't do it during the
• 17:30
  insurrection.
• 17:31
  And like if I were an MPD officer,
• 17:34
  I would want to explore like walk off the job options.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would not be so optimistic.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the DC police union put out a statement in support of this.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but I don't understand it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:55
  I think the most important thing to understand about crime is
• 17:59
  that in 2020,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: at like peak woke,
• 18:04
  You know,
• 18:04
  when,
• 18:04
  like,
• 18:05
  everybody who's anybody was,
• 18:06
  like,
• 18:06
  into criminal justice reform?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: in the mass public,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: there was a two-to-one ratio of,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 18:12
  people who said we need to be tougher on crime to people who
• 18:16
  said the criminal
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: justice system is too tough.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's just,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: an insinuation among police officers,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: among ordinary citizens,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: that,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Trump will,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: allow police officers to be more brutal.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And, like, that's what people want.
• 18:32
  It's certainly what comps want,
• 18:33
  but I think it's what the majority of the public wants.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're a union,
• 18:36
  isn't your job supposed to be to secure the financial interests
• 18:41
  of police officers
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: as a very high priority?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, we can ask Sean O'Brien about this and the Teamsters.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, it's just like cops love Republicans.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: They agree with Republicans about big cultural issues.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well then,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: what would you like to hear from,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: from,
• 19:01
  I know that Jeffrey's issued a statement about this and I saw
• 19:05
  that Schumer had like
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: a tweet,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: but no,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: no real statement.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly nothing to the effect of like,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: like we will protect like,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: like residents of cities across the country from,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: from this abuse at the first opportunity.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, nothing like that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really know.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, I'm just in total doom mode.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 19:30
  I feel like the Democratic Party has completely given up on
• 19:34
  meaningfully contesting
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: elections in the United States and...
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: since the last time you said something like that,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: like they got Roy Cooper in the race in North Carolina,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 19:48
  but it's just like the mainstream positioning of the Democratic
• 19:51
  Party on cultural
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: and moral values issues is dramatically too left-wing.
• 19:55
  And I don't think this recruiting stuff they're doing,
• 19:58
  I don't think it's gonna work.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Schumer is way too left-wing.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: The people he's recruiting are way too left-wing.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's all... Democrats' best hope in life.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good hope.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think this has a 2% chance of working.
• 20:14
  is the thing that they are doing,
• 20:17
  which is only the thing that you hate,
• 20:20
  right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Which is like,
• 20:21
  let's change the subject to like our four topics that we're
• 20:24
  comfortable talking
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: about.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to say, I agree with you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: That is a terrible strategy that will almost certainly fail.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that the alternative strategy,
• 20:33
  which is that you do talk about those issues by espousing
• 20:36
  positions that Brian
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Bortler agrees with is like even worse.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that like what Democrats need to do is like,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: They gotta go through the list.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: They gotta be like everything about, they just, they gotta change it all.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like, they gotta be for the death penalty.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: They gotta be tougher.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And they're not going to, it's not gonna happen.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not planetary.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: So like the duck and cover and hide strategy is an okay.
• 20:59
  But you realize that confronted with the situation where Trump
• 21:03
  has already done
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: something like this in Los Angeles,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: is doing it now in DC,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: promises to do it in several other cities.
• 21:09
  For Democrats to respond by saying,
• 21:10
  but we support the death penalty is also a form of evasion.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do about what's happening in the streets?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like, this is your city.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so do you think that what Democrats should do to make themselves more
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: electorally viable is saying,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 21:23
  I want the jackboot of Donald Trump on the throats of the
• 21:28
  residents of blue seats?
• 21:29
  No,
• 21:29
  they should do what they're doing and just duck the issue and
• 21:33
  say it's a distraction.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just said that that is a failed approach.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying Democrats have two options available to them.
• 21:46
  There's what they are doing,
• 21:47
  the say it's a distraction and try to change the subject.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that has a maybe 5% chance of working.
• 21:53
  And then the other strategy that they might take is the Brian
• 21:56
  Boydler strategy,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: which I think is like a 1% chance of working.
• 22:00
  cause cause they're just they're fucked it's gonna take many
• 22:03
  years to like
• 22:04
  completely rebuild the ideology of the democratic party from
• 22:08
  the ground up to
• 22:09
  something that is capable of talking about these topics in a
• 22:13
  way that is halfway
• 22:15
  reasonable I just I just think we're like it's like it's like
• 22:18
  it's like you know
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're like talking about like the moon, but Democrats are on Neptune.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 22:25
  like I think whether you evade the issue at hand by pivoting to
• 22:29
  one of your handful
• 22:30
  of strengths or you evade the issue at hand by putting on a
• 22:35
  pose of being more
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: right-wing in other cultural realms,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: but still don't address the actual situation,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: people are gonna see that and be like,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: you suck.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're an empty suit.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, you can't actually just like,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I've got a 10% strategy.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Jeffries has a 5% strategy, and you've got a 1% strategy.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: back when people talked about,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: the stakes of the 2024 election,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: looking back,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was all really true and insightful and correct.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like, it's probably just lights out for America now.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: You may be right about that, but okay.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 23:14
  here's what I would put like $5 on this and you actually owe me
• 23:17
  $5 for a Sydney
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sweeney bet last week.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this would, so if you win this bet.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: What happened with Sydney Sweeney?
• 23:24
  Oh,
• 23:24
  $5 went to the first person who could reincorporate the Sydney
• 23:27
  Sweeney.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it was me.
• 23:30
  OK,
• 23:30
  I think that,
• 23:31
  look,
• 23:32
  I was watching local news at home last night over dinner with
• 23:37
  the wife.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the way ABC News,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if ABC News local is like Sinclair or what,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: but like they covered this in like the most pro-Trump
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: way possible where,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: where,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Trump's effort to combat crime in DC,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: like no,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: just taking everything he said at face value,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: no exploration of the pretext.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: That is a, that is a Sinclair.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I figured when I heard that for the record.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I suspect that,
• 24:04
  that stories like that are being told on local TV news networks
• 24:08
  across the country.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I, I agree.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like he is,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: in theory,
• 24:13
  benefiting from really good press coverage for doing something
• 24:16
  that's illegitimate
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: and probably illegal.
• 24:18
  And I still think that a week or two from now,
• 24:23
  he will be polling unfavorably on this issue.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: People will say they don't like it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Democrats will have...
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: failed to anticipate it,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: done nothing to get ahead of it,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: and will still have no plan for what to do or say about it going forward.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they won't view the like,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: if Trump is 60-40 on invading cities or 40-60 on invading cities,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Democrats won't be like,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 24:46
  now we have an advantage on that and we can use our leverage in
• 24:50
  appropriations
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: negotiations to say that these kinds of illegal actions have to stop.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta tell you,
• 24:57
  there's no poll that could come out about a subject related to
• 25:01
  crime that would
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: make me believe that the crime issue is playing a Democrat's favor.
• 25:06
  I think,
• 25:06
  like,
• 25:06
  we know that polling is not an exact science,
• 25:09
  and I simply refuse.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I categorically refuse to believe that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that this is the issue, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, that's not the issue.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with your takes.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: This empiricism,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: it's like the way to address crime,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: there's two ways to address crime,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: One way,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: politically,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: one way is to be as right-wing as possible,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: and the other is to try to change the subject.
• 25:34
  And just like,
• 25:34
  depending on how humane you are,
• 25:37
  you may favor one or the other of those things.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, you know, like Bill Clinton, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like when Democrats did real politics,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: they were like,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: we're putting more money than Republicans are into building prisons.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're expanding the death penalty.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Joe Biden gave some great speeches about that.
• 25:53
  But like,
• 25:53
  you know,
• 25:54
  we decided that's bad,
• 25:55
  like morally speaking,
• 25:56
  which is fine.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: But then you got to duck the issue.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: From my perspective,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: what happened in more recent years,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: because after the 90s,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: crime in cities went way down,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: cities repopulated and crime continued to go down under Democrats.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: It inched up a tiny bit in D.C.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: at the tail end of Obama's presidency after hitting historic lows.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: But generally speaking, it was it was.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was down under Trump.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: It went way up.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that a lot of people just attribute that to pandemic.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I actually think Trump himself,
• 26:28
  by encouraging impunity among his supporters and by making
• 26:31
  everyone else pissed
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: off,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: increase the the potential for crime by himself.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: It went way up under Trump and then Biden brought it back down.
• 26:42
  And instead of proactively talking about how Trump and his
• 26:47
  abuses of power and the
• 26:48
  way he treats people like shit creates more crime and Democrats
• 26:51
  alone can be
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: trusted to bring it down.
• 26:54
  They said nothing and they got behind the eight ball as
• 26:57
  Republicans just said,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: crime is out of control.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Democrats said, but, but, but it was worse under Trump.
• 27:03
  And it's like,
• 27:03
  but you did,
• 27:04
  because you didn't do anything with the good news when you had
• 27:06
  it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't use it as like- But that I agree with.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 27:10
  If Democrats could go back in time and win the 2024 election,
• 27:12
  that would be a great solution.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: like even in the middle of Biden's presidency,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: when like Biden beat the Trump crime wave,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: like I never heard that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: there's Andrew Bates,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: who was at the White House at the time,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: like to do posts like that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: But other people didn't.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a subject of, you know, I mean, I agree with you.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was bad.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Joe Biden,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: who had a long track record as a tough on crime politician,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: like should have just owned that.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: But like part of that is like,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: yes,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: like Biden should have dunked on Trump more,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: et cetera.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Biden should have had federal U.S.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: attorneys,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 27:58
  seek the death penalty in eligible federal death penalty cases
• 28:02
  as part of,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: reowning the crime issue.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, he didn't do that.
• 28:06
  Like,
• 28:06
  they put the pause on existing executions,
• 28:09
  et cetera,
• 28:10
  et cetera,
• 28:10
  et cetera.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I mean, it's like, I think it's unfortunate.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, that's all in the past now.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Democrats' best hope,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: because it's like,
• 28:21
  it's a political party that's given up on trying to have views
• 28:26
  that people agree
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: with on key moral and cultural values issues.
• 28:31
  So,
• 28:31
  you know,
• 28:32
  the good news is that,
• 28:33
  like,
• 28:33
  the economic situation doesn't seem great.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: People seem pretty unhappy about that.
• 28:38
  Democrats seem pretty comfortable talking about how that's bad
• 28:41
  and how Trump's bad
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: on the economy.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's like a good argument to be made, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: To...
• 28:49
  the large majority of the electorate who does not live in the
• 28:52
  District of Columbia.
• 28:54
  DC residents have,
• 28:55
  I believe,
• 28:55
  0% of the voting power in the upcoming 2026 midterms.
• 29:01
  And so,
• 29:01
  like,
• 29:01
  Trump is,
• 29:02
  like,
• 29:02
  fucking around with his toy capital for no reason.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he's not taking on things that are,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: really important,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: like small increases in the price of coffee and whatever else.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's, like...
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a shot at these things.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I think like.
• 29:20
  I don't know how much Democrats care about the favorability
• 29:25
  problems that they
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: have,
• 29:26
  which stem in large part from maybe about half of regular
• 29:32
  Democratic voters telling
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: pollsters they have an unfavorable view of Democrats.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I think it's stuff like this, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, I agree.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely- Hang on.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: The real Democrats are fucked because their base hates them,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: because their base sincerely,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: deeply,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: and truly wants them to do things that would be counterproductive.
• 29:51
  It's not counterproductive to stand up for the majority of
• 29:53
  Americans and their
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: right to be free of being kicked around by the feds.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree with you.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just, I want to be crystal clear.
• 30:02
  If Democrats could go back in time and just not do the
• 30:06
  ideological transformation
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: to like a woke soft on crime political party,
• 30:11
  then today they could be standing up for like freedom and so on
• 30:16
  and so forth.
• 30:17
  But it's just like to be in any discussion about crime for
• 30:20
  Democrats today is catastrophic.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: But it is also catastrophic for them to disappoint their base.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're torn between the views of the American people,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: which is that they want Republican Party policy on crime implemented,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: and the views of their base,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: which is that they want Democrats to fight Trump.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's lose-lose no matter what you do, no matter what you say.
• 30:42
  We have a $5 bet,
• 30:43
  I think,
• 30:44
  on the,
• 30:44
  does the public really want Republican policies on crime?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think the answer is going to prove to me no.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then separately, you're right.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: like they made mistakes in the past,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: and I think it's reasonable for people to be upset about those mistakes.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what really matters is what happens going forward.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: If Chuck Schumer gave like an earnest statement is like,
• 31:01
  I'm not sure what we're going to be able to do about this in
• 31:04
  the immediate term.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have majorities in the House or Senate.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: But but I commit that we are not going to let like miss D.C.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: statehood a second or third time.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to happen.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would be like,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 31:17
  like I like like thank you for at least acknowledging that
• 31:20
  there is a problem,
• 31:22
  that it stems in part from from mistakes we made in the past
• 31:25
  and that we've learned
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: from them and that there there's like a bright day ahead.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we are going to be the people who deliver it for you.
• 31:30
  I would like be singing a different tune about the situation
• 31:35
  and Democrats
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: culpability for it if the leaders of today.
• 31:38
  like ever considered that people want to hear stuff like that
• 31:41
  from him,
• 31:41
  but they don't.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 31:42
  like Hakeem Jeffries has an okay statement that promises no
• 31:46
  consequences or no
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: remediation for the problem.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Chuck Schumer has an even weaker one.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all I expect to hear.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I expect them to fund the government without raise,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: like trying to demand anything from Republicans.
• 31:56
  And then,
• 31:56
  you know,
• 31:57
  their favorability is going to fall from like 27% down to 20%.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they're going to continue.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what, like,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: listening to the people who dragged it down there in the first place.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to offer, like, any hope at all on any level.
• 32:16
  Let me read to you a passage from Chuck Schumer's 2006 book,
• 32:21
  Positively American,
• 32:23
  right?
• 32:23
  Schumer,
• 32:24
  in 2006,
• 32:25
  he's telling an anecdote about his first statewide campaign in
• 32:29
  1998.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: and he's saying,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: OK,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 32:35
  I won the primary and I had to do this like tour of upstate
• 32:40
  cities because he's
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: from Brooklyn,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: so the voters upstate don't know him as well.
• 32:47
  And he I arrived at our first event in Buffalo with the phone
• 32:50
  still to my ear.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: I passed it to Costa and strode to the podium.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter who Costa is.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's out there and he's giving his debut upstate speech.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, I am a tough on crime, law and order Democrat.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I have been all along.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I believe in people's rights,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: but I also believe that criminals,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: particularly violent criminals,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: should be treated with the punishment that their crimes deserve.
• 33:13
  And despite his bluster,
• 33:14
  Al D'Amato is not close to being as tough on crime as Chuck
• 33:17
  Schumer.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's been in the Senate too long.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's out of touch with ordinary voters.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's time for him to go.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 33:24
  that was a fucking New York State Senate race that Schumer was
• 33:28
  talking about,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: in 98.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you know, it's...
• 33:33
  Go read what Kamala Harris said about crime and about like
• 33:37
  American military might
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: during the campaign.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that was pretty good.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she was not talking like- Of course, of course.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: That was smart.
• 33:46
  But I mean,
• 33:47
  she was hobbled by various things she'd done and so forth in
• 33:50
  the recent past.
• 33:51
  So it's like,
• 33:52
  you know,
• 33:53
  the only solution for this stuff is like,
• 33:54
  Schumer's gotta go.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: everybody's got to go.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jeffrey's not necessarily, but it's like they have to be replaced.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: But what will happen if Schumer goes,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: right,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: is that Schumer will be replaced by somebody younger,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: more media savvy,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: and more left-wing than Schumer.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then that person is going to end up doing even worse than Schumer.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then that person is going to have to go.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because what we need to do is get rid of
• 34:18
  All these,
• 34:20
  100% of things that angry leftists say about Democrats are
• 34:23
  true.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: They are as horrible in all the ways that you guys say,
• 34:27
  but it's that they need to be replaced by a new cohort of much
• 34:31
  more conservative
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: people.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's like a three-step process.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you guys can't even find the people.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I will not defend them.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even find the people who would be replaced.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be so much losing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: before we win.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: there's no way to get from,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in Maine,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: there's a Maine saying,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: it's like,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: you can't get there from here.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where Democrats are.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that Jared Golden wants to constitutionalize the filibuster?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have not heard that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: this is what happens when,
• 35:01
  this is what will happen if what you think needs to happen for
• 35:04
  Democrats to win
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: happens.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:07
  Is that Jared Golden will become like a more prominent player
• 35:11
  and Democrats will
• 35:12
  become less willing to abolish the filibuster to accomplish
• 35:16
  anything ever.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, absolutely true.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 35:22
  The alternative to the current strategy of just losing all the
• 35:25
  time is to bring
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: back shitheels like Joe Manchin and Max Baucus,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: who,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: won races and then didn't do what I wanted.
• 35:36
  I would rather have Max Baucus and Joe Manchin running the
• 35:40
  Senate right now than John Thune.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 35:43
  but what I am saying is that your approach will not solve
• 35:48
  Democrats' problems with
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: their own voters,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: because voters are going to be like,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 35:52
  you won and now you want to put into the Constitution a limit
• 35:56
  on your ability to
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: ever help me.
• 35:57
  The next time Republicans come into my city,
• 36:00
  not only is there going to be- Yeah,
• 36:01
  yeah,
• 36:01
  yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you about that.
• 36:04
  That is the one critical problem for Democrats is that the
• 36:09
  Democratic Party's voters,
• 36:11
  very authentically do not want to nominate the kinds of people
• 36:15
  who could win elections.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think you need to constantly like say,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to put the filibuster in order to win an election,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: but that's what I agree.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Brian,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: if you want to move to Northern Maine,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: adopt different positions on a range of issues,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: but maintain feisty,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: like that would be great.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would welcome that.
• 36:36
  I'm just like,
• 36:36
  I'm looking at like,
• 36:37
  we've got like a bunch of choices,
• 36:39
  right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: We've got like Jared Golden, very bad, very, very, very bad.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then we've got like Hakeem Jeffries, even worse.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then we've got like Boitlerism, even worse than that.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's just a range of shit options.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's going to be like really challenging, uh, to, to rebuild.
• 36:59
  But as long as the like core brand of the party is just like
• 37:04
  wildly unacceptable
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: across huge swaths of,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: of the country is like,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: there's nothing that you can do.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: You could just stand up for yourself and appreciate.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: The reason Bernie Sanders has high favorability ratings,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think has almost anything to do with his position on any issue.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: But there are lots,
• 37:22
  there are millions and millions and millions of conservatives
• 37:24
  in the country who
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: respect Bernie Sanders for speaking his mind.
• 37:28
  And when pollsters call them and say,
• 37:30
  do you have a favorable view of Bernie Sanders?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: They will say yes for that reason.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes them proud.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Probably in almost every case,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: not a gettable voter for him,
• 37:39
  but at least like those are people who will listen to him and
• 37:43
  take what he has to
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: say seriously.
• 37:45
  And there's like five politicians in the whole Democratic Party
• 37:48
  who have internalized that.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: But if you look at Bernie Sanders is like actual electoral performance,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: right,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: if you generalize that across the whole Senate caucus,
• 37:56
  all that would happen is that Alyssa Slotkin and Ruba Gallego
• 37:59
  would have lost their
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: vote.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure that's true at all.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure that's true.
• 38:04
  No,
• 38:04
  but I'm just saying,
• 38:05
  if you look at,
• 38:06
  like,
• 38:06
  how he ran relative to Kamala Harris.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know how... So it's like, yes, like, I agree.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: if the whole Democratic Party was Bernie Sanders's,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people would be like,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: the base would like them more,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: and the people who vote for Republicans would at least respect them,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: and they could hold their heads high,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: and they'd be like 41 of them.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: optimistically, or maybe 35.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 38:30
  we should do a whole show about the problems with wins against
• 38:33
  replacement as a way
• 38:33
  of evaluating what the right bent for Democratic candidates and
• 38:37
  office holders is.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: But we should take a break and talk about things that are happier,
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: like how Trump is ruining the economy and covering up a pedophilia ring.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Should we do that?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, let's do it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you wanna hear that part of the conversation,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: go to politics.fm and upgrade your subscription.