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Can the Cardinals Keep This Up? Brenden Schaeffer Joins! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: No pro athletes today Jim Hayes alongside Brendan Shafer, who's
0:15
Speaker 1: from MLB dot Com, SDL Sports Central and KTGR Radio.
0:22
Speaker 1: Just for those that don't know, it's his world. Now,
0:26
Speaker 1: before we get started, quick reminder, we would like to
0:29
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0:43
Speaker 2: See we do a little selling first.
0:45
Speaker 1: For those that don't know Brendan Schaeffer, he is all
0:48
Speaker 1: over Saint Louis media covering the Cardinals a bunch of
0:52
Speaker 1: other things, as YouTube has all the media that is
0:56
Speaker 1: a mystery to me. He's on TikTok. So Brendan, thank
0:58
Speaker 1: you for being here. You have a busy schedule. Let's
1:01
Speaker 1: get right to it, all right. The Cardinals are doing
1:05
Speaker 1: well right now, right early in the season. We get
1:08
Speaker 1: that you don't judge him till flag day. According to
1:11
Speaker 1: Mike Claymore, my question is the way we're seeing this
1:16
Speaker 1: Cardinal team play with energy, some youthful mistakes, but still winning.
1:21
Speaker 2: Is this sustainable?
1:24
Speaker 3: I think to a degree it certainly can be, Jim,
1:27
Speaker 3: because you look at the ways that they are winning Offensively,
1:31
Speaker 3: they've been a solid team. I don't know if the
1:33
Speaker 3: home run power is going to stay quite as prevalent
1:35
Speaker 3: as it's been, But like, there's a number of guys
1:38
Speaker 3: in this lineup where you could go the other way
1:40
Speaker 3: on that and say you're going to get more out
1:42
Speaker 3: of Avon Herrero, You're going to get more out of
1:44
Speaker 3: some of these non Jordan Walker batters that obviously he's
1:48
Speaker 3: off to a great start and he's going to come
1:49
Speaker 3: back down to earth. But a lot of other guys
1:51
Speaker 3: in the lineup I would say might have not shown
1:54
Speaker 3: you their best yet. On the pitching side, a little
1:57
Speaker 3: bit of a different story. I guess the question is
2:00
Speaker 3: can this pitch to contact staff which is going to
2:03
Speaker 3: rank thirtieth out of thirty in MLB strikeout total, because
2:07
Speaker 3: that's where they sit right now and it's not particularly close.
2:10
Speaker 3: Can they end up pitching to enough softer contact play
2:14
Speaker 3: to the defense behind them to keep in these games
2:18
Speaker 3: the way that they have and then when they're in
2:19
Speaker 3: a close game, gym. You've got two relievers at the
2:22
Speaker 3: back end of your bullpen that have been nails. When
2:24
Speaker 3: those guys are available, the Cardinals have generally won those
2:27
Speaker 3: close games. So like, that's the recipe. I think it
2:30
Speaker 3: can be sustained. You just worry about the pitching maybe
2:33
Speaker 3: holding up to the degree that it has so far.
2:35
Speaker 3: But if that happens, like I don't think they're too
2:38
Speaker 3: far outside the bounds of what they might end up doing.
2:42
Speaker 1: So when I get asked about it, what's the recipe
2:45
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals' success, I say, there really isn't one, because,
2:49
Speaker 1: as you point out right now, I think they're top
2:51
Speaker 1: ten in homers, they probably won't be. They look at
2:54
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys in the lineup that aren't hitting
2:56
Speaker 1: the way we think.
2:57
Speaker 2: They will eventually hit.
2:58
Speaker 1: Although there are guys like you mentioned Herrera who still
3:01
Speaker 1: get a lot of walks. Weather Holt got hot early,
3:04
Speaker 1: still getting walks though he's not hitting. And then the
3:07
Speaker 1: pitching staff. The starting rotation has been solid, but they're
3:11
Speaker 1: really just giving you a tick over five, which might
3:14
Speaker 1: explain some of the problems in the bullpen to me,
3:18
Speaker 1: and I know you're the guest, but they're winning in
3:20
Speaker 1: so many different ways each night. It's a different hero
3:24
Speaker 1: each night, it's a different method of how they won,
3:27
Speaker 1: and to me, that's the fun part. And I do
3:29
Speaker 1: think it's kind of sustainable. My question is, as we
3:33
Speaker 1: move to the starting rotation, Okay, you have a lot
3:36
Speaker 1: of guys that haven't at the major league level compiled
3:41
Speaker 1: a lot of innings like ladies now from bullpen to starter.
3:46
Speaker 1: Libby's still trying to do that. We've got guys coming
3:50
Speaker 1: off injuries. We got guys who haven't done it at
3:52
Speaker 1: the big league level for a sustained period of time.
3:57
Speaker 1: I know Dobbins is getting ready at TRIPLEA coming off
4:00
Speaker 1: have But part of it I think is by design,
4:03
Speaker 1: and I think Ali Marmalous played it smart in the
4:06
Speaker 1: early going. Even though a guy like Libby could go deeper,
4:11
Speaker 1: even though other guys have had pitch wall and could
4:13
Speaker 1: have gone deeper, they yank them because I think what
4:16
Speaker 1: they're trying to do is preserve them as best they
4:20
Speaker 1: can so that they can get more wrong this season.
4:23
Speaker 2: And I think that's wise, don't you. Yeah.
4:27
Speaker 3: I think it's something we saw last year as well,
4:29
Speaker 3: when they baked in like a sixth starter every now
4:32
Speaker 3: and again with Steven Matts, and then they did it
4:35
Speaker 3: with McGreevy as time went along, and that was with
4:37
Speaker 3: a design to keep the guys that they do have
4:39
Speaker 3: in their rotation healthy, because when you look at Triple A,
4:43
Speaker 3: I do think what heine Bloom and his staff are
4:45
Speaker 3: doing is going to pay dividends down the road in
4:48
Speaker 3: terms of development. But are those guys ready yet is
4:51
Speaker 3: maybe more of a question mark. Like even a guy
4:54
Speaker 3: like Quinn Matthews that you're hopeful can develop into that
4:57
Speaker 3: guy is kind of finding his way still at Triple A.
5:00
Speaker 4: You lost Richard fitz for the season.
5:02
Speaker 3: He was designed to be part of that depth group
5:04
Speaker 3: and now you don't have him. So you really would
5:07
Speaker 3: prefer not to have some big time arm injuries to
5:11
Speaker 3: your rotation in the big leagues because you don't really
5:14
Speaker 3: know how much you trust the guys behind those guys
5:17
Speaker 3: at this point in time. So yeah, I think it's
5:19
Speaker 3: a strategy that we saw them deploy last year.
5:22
Speaker 4: They're doing it again.
5:23
Speaker 3: And that's why Jim I do think some of the
5:25
Speaker 3: names that Cardinals fans will harp on to say maybe
5:28
Speaker 3: haven't been off to the strongest start out of the bullpen.
5:31
Speaker 3: It's guys, you know, like a Matt Sponson, that I
5:34
Speaker 3: think they need to be able to rely on to
5:36
Speaker 3: go multiple innings because they are often asked to pitch
5:40
Speaker 3: the sixth and the seventh. Gordon GROSSEFO has stepped into
5:42
Speaker 3: that role as well to kind of bridge the gap
5:46
Speaker 3: between wherever that starter leaves the game and where those
5:49
Speaker 3: late inning leverage relievers like Jojo, like Riley come into
5:53
Speaker 3: the mix. So that's where I feel like maybe you
5:56
Speaker 3: got to get some of those guys on track, and
5:58
Speaker 3: Sponson's been a key example of that. And if you're
6:01
Speaker 3: able to do that, I think that affords you the
6:03
Speaker 3: luxury of continuing to be a little careful with those arms,
6:07
Speaker 3: with those guys in your rotation that largely have not
6:09
Speaker 3: piled up a ton of innings in their career, showing
6:12
Speaker 3: that they can go one hundred and seventy one hundred
6:14
Speaker 3: and eighty innings in a season.
6:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they get to one hundred and eighty, I'll
6:18
Speaker 2: be happy.
6:19
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure how many of those are going
6:21
Speaker 1: to be able to do that, to be honest with you,
6:24
Speaker 1: but you mentioned the bullpen.
6:25
Speaker 2: I'm a big sponsor guy. I think he'll snap back in. Yeah.
6:29
Speaker 1: I love the way Griseppa has gone about. I think
6:31
Speaker 1: he's learned, you know, with the back and forth. I
6:34
Speaker 1: think he's ready for that role and with bullpens. Look,
6:36
Speaker 1: every team you tinker with some pieces. As long as
6:39
Speaker 1: you got the hammers at the back end, which they do,
6:42
Speaker 1: they're going to be fine. So that brings me to
6:44
Speaker 1: another question. Biggest concern about this team, and I'll give
6:48
Speaker 1: you mine. First, we touched on it, the starting rotation.
6:51
Speaker 1: Now they do have, you know, pieces that are ready
6:54
Speaker 1: to go with Dobbins, Matthews has been walking a lot
6:57
Speaker 1: of guys, I mean too many guys. I don't think
6:59
Speaker 1: he ready for prime time yet. I think he's got
7:02
Speaker 1: a lot of talent will be so. Last year they
7:05
Speaker 1: got through the starting rotation without any injuries, which is
7:08
Speaker 1: a fluke. It never happens. You've been around long enough
7:11
Speaker 1: to know coming out of spring training where you're already
7:14
Speaker 1: on your eighth and ninth option, right, they haven't had
7:16
Speaker 1: to deal with it. The starting rotation again hasn't gone deep,
7:22
Speaker 1: partly by design, but they've been solid. If they can
7:25
Speaker 1: do that, then this is sustainable. But that's my concern.
7:28
Speaker 1: If someone gets hurt, if someone gets banged up, someone
7:32
Speaker 1: tweaks something, and then you got to start bringing in
7:34
Speaker 1: pieces that may not be ready. That's when the success
7:38
Speaker 1: part I think could stall out.
7:40
Speaker 2: Just your thoughts of.
7:40
Speaker 3: Me, I would agree generally, I think to another aspect
7:45
Speaker 3: of that is the lack of swing and miss in
7:47
Speaker 3: the rotation. Because of that, you're gonna have to get
7:50
Speaker 3: outs in other ways. And there's also been the trend
7:53
Speaker 3: of late when you mentioned it with Quinn Matthews at
7:56
Speaker 3: the minor league level. The major league level is dealing
7:58
Speaker 3: with it too, that the cardinal are just walking too
8:01
Speaker 3: many batters. Sometimes that's more isolated in the bullpen. We
8:05
Speaker 3: saw it from Ryan Staneck in a recent game against Miami,
8:08
Speaker 3: but the rotation as well, like you have a bunch
8:10
Speaker 3: of pitch to contact guys that if they're starting to
8:12
Speaker 3: give three passes, you want to be able to pitch
8:15
Speaker 3: to contact and you want to trust your defense behind you,
8:18
Speaker 3: but you're also asking for trouble if you're giving out
8:21
Speaker 3: the free passes ahead of that contact. That's where it
8:24
Speaker 3: can start to snowball on you. I feel like we
8:26
Speaker 3: saw that a little bit in that three game stretch
8:28
Speaker 3: about a week ago when the Cardinals lost three in
8:31
Speaker 3: a row, got blown out by Boston after Swanson blew up.
8:37
Speaker 3: You had one against the Guardians where that happened as well.
8:40
Speaker 3: Nine to three type of scores. If too many of
8:42
Speaker 3: those are adding up, it can start to feel bleak
8:44
Speaker 3: rather quickly, that would be the concern. I don't know
8:47
Speaker 3: that it's going to quite blow up to that extent
8:50
Speaker 3: that often. I think you do have enough in that
8:53
Speaker 3: lineup one through nine to be able to hang into
8:56
Speaker 3: some of these kind of five to four, six to
8:58
Speaker 3: five types of games. But you're right like I think,
9:01
Speaker 3: if you look at this rotation, you've got a couple
9:03
Speaker 3: guys with eras and the fives. Valonte's sitting there a
9:06
Speaker 3: little bit above four as we record this, and then
9:09
Speaker 3: your two guys that have been productive, libertoire and Polonte
9:12
Speaker 3: or excuse me, and McGreevy have an ERA in the
9:15
Speaker 3: mid threes range for both of them. But you think
9:17
Speaker 3: about those two guys, are they going to miss enough
9:19
Speaker 3: bats to be able to sustain that? That's probably the question.
9:23
Speaker 3: Even if there aren't injuries, Jim, and if there are,
9:26
Speaker 3: you've got Dobbins and behind him. I'm not sure that
9:28
Speaker 3: you really feel confident in anybody that would come thereafter.
9:31
Speaker 4: So keeping those guys healthy is important.
9:34
Speaker 2: How do you think they're gonna handle Dobbins?
9:35
Speaker 1: Because they've got a stretch of a lot of games
9:38
Speaker 1: coming up, they could end up going with six guys
9:40
Speaker 1: to limit innings and then see how it all shakes
9:43
Speaker 1: out beyond that, how do you think they're going to
9:45
Speaker 1: handle it.
9:47
Speaker 3: They could parachute him in for a start, kind of
9:50
Speaker 3: like they did with Matts and McGreevy at times last year,
9:53
Speaker 3: and kind of go to a modified six man based
9:56
Speaker 3: on where the schedule is. But just keep in mind
9:58
Speaker 3: when they do that, it is going to put a
10:00
Speaker 3: strain on the bullpen and have to make you do
10:03
Speaker 3: some creative things to be able to have enough innings
10:05
Speaker 3: out there When you don't have a staff that reliably
10:08
Speaker 3: every turn through is getting somebody through the seventh for example,
10:12
Speaker 3: that does add up on a bullpen. So unless they
10:14
Speaker 3: feel like they've got multiple guys like a Grisepho, if
10:18
Speaker 3: he can regularly give you two innings, maybe Sponson can
10:21
Speaker 3: can get back to that point where you feel good
10:23
Speaker 3: about him doing that. There's like Ryan Fernandez is out there,
10:27
Speaker 3: you could do something at some point where Dobbins comes
10:29
Speaker 3: up for a day, Fernandez goes down, Roycroft comes back
10:32
Speaker 3: up the next day, like that would be the creative solution.
10:35
Speaker 4: Maybe we see.
10:36
Speaker 3: That they still have a little bit more time before
10:38
Speaker 3: they have to determine what to do with Dobbins. It
10:41
Speaker 3: was like a thirty day rehab that started around the
10:44
Speaker 3: beginning of the month. He does have options remaining, so
10:47
Speaker 3: he could just be assigned to Triple A. But I
10:49
Speaker 3: do think that Dobbins is somebody that they'll look to
10:53
Speaker 3: get something out of creatively when they come upon a
10:56
Speaker 3: schedule where, yeah, you don't have off days every Thursday
10:59
Speaker 3: in future months that you do in the month of April.
11:02
Speaker 1: Now, going into the season, a lot of people didn't
11:04
Speaker 1: think the Cardinals could get off to a start like that.
11:06
Speaker 2: Again, it's early.
11:07
Speaker 1: No one's popping champagne courts just yet. But do you
11:11
Speaker 1: think we're sort of losing sight with the fact that
11:15
Speaker 1: because I see people saying we want crooks up corks
11:17
Speaker 1: is how any is And I understand that, right, but
11:20
Speaker 1: you're winning right now with the lineup the way it is,
11:25
Speaker 1: warts and all, and at the same time, the staff
11:29
Speaker 1: is getting a look at guys. Guys are getting a
11:32
Speaker 1: big runway as they like to say, and it's and
11:35
Speaker 1: it's working.
11:36
Speaker 2: So you're getting everything and winning as a bonus.
11:40
Speaker 1: And do you think at some point fans are going
11:42
Speaker 1: to be like, forget the development, we need to win now,
11:45
Speaker 1: which is really to me. The development while being competitive
11:50
Speaker 1: was the formula for the season going in.
11:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:53
Speaker 3: And I think if you look at a guy like
11:55
Speaker 3: Jimmy Crooks and look, I'm not watching every single triple
11:57
Speaker 3: A game, but you can, as a cardinal fan of
12:01
Speaker 3: the big league club look at the numbers and say, wow,
12:03
Speaker 3: he's really raking down there. What more does he have
12:07
Speaker 3: to prove a lot of times, especially with a catcher
12:10
Speaker 3: jim The answer may be a lot. There may be
12:13
Speaker 3: things on the defensive side that they want to continue
12:16
Speaker 3: to see him develop in. And I know that Cardinals
12:18
Speaker 3: fans don't like to hear it, but when they think
12:20
Speaker 3: of Pedro pah has, the way the team views him
12:24
Speaker 3: is that he's adept in those areas of managing a
12:26
Speaker 3: pitching staff and guiding the starters and the bullpen through
12:29
Speaker 3: these games. I know that he's not bringing a lot offensively,
12:33
Speaker 3: and he's probably not going to that's just the nature
12:35
Speaker 3: of his, I think role.
12:37
Speaker 4: With the team.
12:38
Speaker 3: But like that, that's where I think the crux comes
12:41
Speaker 3: in of people seeing the numbers offensively and being convinced
12:45
Speaker 3: that that's really all there is to it. When it
12:47
Speaker 3: comes to the catcher position. The Cardinals may be overestimating
12:51
Speaker 3: the value of what Pa Haz brings behind the plane.
12:53
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting that's impossible, but their stance is very
12:57
Speaker 3: clear that they value him.
12:58
Speaker 4: They have him in the lineup with.
13:00
Speaker 3: Some real frequency behind the plate to be in that role,
13:03
Speaker 3: and I don't know if the team believes Jimmy Crooks
13:06
Speaker 3: is ready for that. They may be missing on that evaluation,
13:08
Speaker 3: jim I can't say for sure, but I think that
13:11
Speaker 3: is part of this conversation where everybody wants the Crooks mania.
13:16
Speaker 3: The Cardinals, I think, are making more measured decisions, like
13:19
Speaker 3: you said, without getting too carried away based on what
13:21
Speaker 3: they've seen over the first three weeks or so.
13:24
Speaker 2: You know who likes having pies behind the plate the pictures,
13:28
Speaker 2: that's the truth.
13:28
Speaker 1: They like him because he look, I know, fans get on,
13:32
Speaker 1: but he's a steady hand and yeah, and he's out there,
13:35
Speaker 1: you know, helping God pictures, and they seem to like
13:38
Speaker 1: having him back there of all the choices, And I'm
13:41
Speaker 1: not taking anything away from the other guys. I'm just
13:44
Speaker 1: saying they feel very comfortable with Herrera. In your mind,
13:48
Speaker 1: I'm the so wrong that the Cardinals are on who
13:51
Speaker 1: is the most underrated piece? Maybe the guy that doesn't
13:54
Speaker 1: get enough love.
13:57
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we're making sure that Jojo getting
14:00
Speaker 3: enough love, but the Cardinals aren't anywhere close to where
14:03
Speaker 3: that where they are without the way that he has pitched.
14:06
Speaker 3: So I would say that even though I think we
14:08
Speaker 3: talk about him a lot, I don't know if people
14:10
Speaker 3: fully appreciate the degree to which he has almost single
14:13
Speaker 3: handedly turned this team from about a five hundred club
14:16
Speaker 3: to the way he does his job. It's, you know,
14:18
Speaker 3: handful of games above five hundred. On the pitching side,
14:21
Speaker 3: that would be the name that I think I would
14:23
Speaker 3: point out. Dustin May has been really good his last
14:26
Speaker 3: three starts as well. On the hitting side, It's really
14:28
Speaker 3: difficult to pinpoint any one guy because it has been
14:34
Speaker 3: a collective effort and like the numbers don't really jump
14:37
Speaker 3: off the page. But I might go with Alec Burlison,
14:39
Speaker 3: like him continuing to be the guy that we saw
14:42
Speaker 3: last year has really made it a steady presence in
14:45
Speaker 3: the middle of the lineup. OPS around eight hundred, just
14:48
Speaker 3: about as many walks as strikeouts. There's a few different
14:52
Speaker 3: hitters you could point to. I think offensively, Burley has
14:55
Speaker 3: impressed me the most because he's been steady. Like right now,
14:58
Speaker 3: Jordan Walker has a higher open. Yes, he's also got
15:01
Speaker 3: more than double the strikeout total of Burlison, and if
15:03
Speaker 3: you ask me today, I would predict Burlison to finish
15:06
Speaker 3: with a higher OPS than Jordan Walker. I think Burley
15:09
Speaker 3: is kind of the steady presence in this lineup that
15:12
Speaker 3: when he's slumping Jim, it's not going to be for
15:14
Speaker 3: long and he's going to be right back on the horse,
15:16
Speaker 3: helping this team, driving in runs and doing what he
15:19
Speaker 3: does in the middle of the lineup.
15:21
Speaker 2: I'm a Burley gut No.
15:22
Speaker 1: I think Burley, I think the upside is still huge
15:25
Speaker 1: for him. There's a guy who can be selected at
15:28
Speaker 1: the plate, who can go the other way intentionally. He
15:32
Speaker 1: can do a lot of things at the plane. By
15:34
Speaker 1: the way, his defensive first base has been really really good.
15:37
Speaker 1: I mean he snaps up everything so I don't considering
15:40
Speaker 1: Wonder Raby. To me, the guy who exemplifies what the
15:44
Speaker 1: Cardinals are Nathan Church.
15:46
Speaker 2: Here's what.
15:47
Speaker 1: Look at his numbers, man, you look at the Cardinals
15:49
Speaker 1: offensive numbers.
15:50
Speaker 2: Man. Does he make mistakes.
15:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll make a mistake here and there, forgetting how
15:54
Speaker 1: many outs they are and maybe throwing at the wrong base.
15:57
Speaker 1: He's also made some unbelievable defensive plates in the upfield.
16:01
Speaker 1: I know he's rated as their best defensive outfielder in
16:04
Speaker 1: the miners for a few years. The guy can play defense.
16:08
Speaker 1: He's also hit some homers. He's also had a three
16:11
Speaker 1: hit game. He also had the sack five to walk
16:13
Speaker 1: it off during the homestand so yeah, he's gonna make mistakes,
16:18
Speaker 1: but he's done a lot. Even though you look at
16:20
Speaker 1: his numbers, he's not going to jump off the page
16:22
Speaker 1: at you. But to me, in a sense, Church and
16:25
Speaker 1: getting this opportunity is exactly what the Cardinals are.
16:28
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on my fick.
16:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Nathan Church.
16:33
Speaker 3: Obviously that would be a little bit more underrated because
16:36
Speaker 3: the numbers, as you said, don't jump off the page
16:38
Speaker 3: quite the way that Burlison does. So maybe I missed
16:40
Speaker 3: the prompt cat. But I think you are onto something
16:42
Speaker 3: with Nathan Church because he has that defensive floor where
16:48
Speaker 3: you say, hey, even if he's not producing at the plate,
16:50
Speaker 3: you know what you're gonna get out of him defensively
16:52
Speaker 3: when he gets on the bases, he can run a
16:53
Speaker 3: little bit.
16:54
Speaker 4: You like to see that.
16:55
Speaker 3: And then earlier this week he had the home run
16:57
Speaker 3: in the Miami Series as part of a Cardinal win.
17:00
Speaker 3: If he can develop and establish a little bit more
17:03
Speaker 3: of a thumb to the bat, I think there's a
17:05
Speaker 3: lot of value in having him in the daily lineup.
17:08
Speaker 3: I think it goes back all the way to the
17:10
Speaker 3: beginning of the season when a lot of folks were
17:12
Speaker 3: confused and myself included. I was a little surprised that
17:15
Speaker 3: the team did not include Nelson Velasquez on the roster
17:18
Speaker 3: based on the number of power swings that he had
17:21
Speaker 3: during spring training. But I think the Cardinals k new, like,
17:24
Speaker 3: if this is going to work, if we're going to
17:26
Speaker 3: thread the needle as a team this year and have success,
17:28
Speaker 3: it's going to be with a lineup that is based
17:31
Speaker 3: first and foremost on defensive presence and consistency, because that's
17:36
Speaker 3: what the pitching staff that we have built will need.
17:39
Speaker 3: They don't strike out a lot of guys, so you
17:40
Speaker 3: play good defense behind them. Church is a guy that
17:43
Speaker 3: could also showcase a little bit of upside offensively to
17:47
Speaker 3: go along with that, and so that is something that
17:50
Speaker 3: I think, especially over the next month or so while
17:52
Speaker 3: Lars Newpar remains on the injured list, they're going to
17:55
Speaker 3: give Church as much run as he can handle in
17:58
Speaker 3: order to really determine what kind of place he can be.
18:00
Speaker 3: If he can be that consistent presence toward the bottom
18:03
Speaker 3: of the lineup, now suddenly you do start to embody
18:06
Speaker 3: more of that one through nine that the Cardinals really
18:09
Speaker 3: need to have, because, like we've said, they don't have
18:11
Speaker 3: a ton of guys that you just sail. All star
18:13
Speaker 3: caliber hitter like Burley could become that. We'll continue to
18:17
Speaker 3: monitor Jordan Walker's progress, but I think it's important to
18:20
Speaker 3: have a lineup that's deep because it is going to
18:22
Speaker 3: need to be.
18:23
Speaker 4: A different hero every day.
18:24
Speaker 3: Offensively, Nathan Church really could check a lot of those
18:27
Speaker 3: boxes for the Cardinals, and I think they'll want to
18:29
Speaker 3: continue to see what it looks like for him.
18:32
Speaker 1: And he's one of the three four guys who really
18:34
Speaker 1: blaze on the base pass when they get on base,
18:37
Speaker 1: and I've seen that already. That puts a lot of
18:40
Speaker 1: pressure on defense. So suddenly a bunt or a standard
18:45
Speaker 1: grounder defense tightens up, and that makes the Cardinals a
18:49
Speaker 1: more dangerous ball club. You are watching Cardinal Territory on
18:53
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. We'll be back with more from
18:56
Speaker 1: Brendon Schaeffer after this break.
18:59
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19:58
Speaker 2: Today we're talking.
20:01
Speaker 1: With Brendan Schaefer. I like to call them BE, you know,
20:03
Speaker 1: because I know them for a long time. Usually on Twitter.
20:06
Speaker 1: I'll call them B when I feel like maybe I
20:08
Speaker 1: got one overall, Yeah, Brendan. The Cardinals playing good baseball.
20:14
Speaker 1: Do you sense that the fan base is becoming more
20:19
Speaker 1: and more on board now? Granted, I think a lot
20:21
Speaker 1: of people understood there had to be a reset, rebuild,
20:25
Speaker 1: whatever you choose to call it.
20:27
Speaker 2: Now they're doing it, and they're doing it in a
20:29
Speaker 2: fashion that's.
20:30
Speaker 1: Fun to watch. Do you feel they're bringing more folks
20:33
Speaker 1: back into the fold?
20:36
Speaker 4: I think tentatively.
20:37
Speaker 3: Cardinals fins are starting to dip their toes back into
20:40
Speaker 3: the water when there's a good extra inning win, you know,
20:43
Speaker 3: you might see more bumps on the podcast on YouTube
20:46
Speaker 3: the next day, and.
20:47
Speaker 4: People are wanting to hear more about this team.
20:50
Speaker 3: I think people are a little bit cautious about really
20:54
Speaker 3: jumping in with both feet because there are some deficiencies
20:57
Speaker 3: that right now the Cardinals are proving they're able to come,
21:00
Speaker 3: but will that be sustainable as kind of the question
21:03
Speaker 3: on everybody's mind still kind of in the attendance quandary
21:07
Speaker 3: at the ballpark. There's still people that, yeah, maybe I'll
21:10
Speaker 3: go out, Maybe we'll see when the weather warms up
21:12
Speaker 3: a little bit. I feel like if you continue to
21:14
Speaker 3: play this type of baseball that's inevitable. The fans that
21:17
Speaker 3: are going to be bought in no matter what, Like
21:20
Speaker 3: that next tier of fans beyond just kind of casual
21:23
Speaker 3: viewers are I think, really on board with and supportive
21:27
Speaker 3: of the general plan that the Cardinals are instituting under
21:31
Speaker 3: hind Bloom is to kind of rebuild the farm system
21:34
Speaker 3: first and foremost, and then to play a brand of
21:36
Speaker 3: baseball at the big league level that I know Alliver
21:39
Speaker 3: Marmel is really on board with, and I can I
21:41
Speaker 3: can honestly say now that some of the veterans are
21:44
Speaker 3: out of the room. It's almost a little bit more
21:45
Speaker 3: freeing to be able to say, hey, everybody here is
21:48
Speaker 3: on a level playing field, and the expectation is the
21:51
Speaker 3: same for everybody to play hard, to do the details
21:54
Speaker 3: the right way. I think, yeah, fans are starting to
21:57
Speaker 3: buy into that gym, and I think as long as
21:59
Speaker 3: they can continue to see that style of play, even
22:03
Speaker 3: if the record kind of tapers off a little bit,
22:05
Speaker 3: I do think as the summer wears along, fans will
22:08
Speaker 3: start to really jump in even more if they could
22:11
Speaker 3: start to trust that, like, yeah, this brand of baseball
22:13
Speaker 3: that has been talked about going all the way back
22:15
Speaker 3: to spring training is something the Cardinals are going to
22:18
Speaker 3: embody all summer long.
22:20
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, Wins are like Pringle's potato chips.
22:25
Speaker 1: Once your pop, you can't stop. So I'm concerned that
22:29
Speaker 1: Cardinal fans are going to get so used to these
22:32
Speaker 1: wins that we're seeing some of them dramatic. We've seen
22:36
Speaker 1: so many come from behind and walk off. They're going
22:39
Speaker 1: to be growing paints. We know that, right, But when
22:42
Speaker 1: the growing pains come and suddenly the big hit isn't
22:45
Speaker 1: there for a stretch of five or six, will that
22:49
Speaker 1: tick off.
22:49
Speaker 2: The fans or as a fan base.
22:52
Speaker 1: And I'm going to say we because you're a fan,
22:54
Speaker 1: I'm a fan, right, Are we mature enough to understand
22:57
Speaker 1: that this is a process.
23:01
Speaker 3: I'd like to think yes. It was teetering toward a
23:03
Speaker 3: degree that I was wondering about though, when you had
23:07
Speaker 3: those three straight losses, seven to one, nine to three,
23:10
Speaker 3: nine to three. I said, if this goes on for
23:12
Speaker 3: a few more days, I'm gonna be curious to see
23:15
Speaker 3: what the reaction is to that, because you do, man,
23:18
Speaker 3: Cardinals fans want to have something to invest in, to
23:21
Speaker 3: buy into, to believe in, to take them through the
23:24
Speaker 3: summer as their primary form of entertainment here in Saint Louis.
23:27
Speaker 3: I mean, that is a way of life around here,
23:30
Speaker 3: as you know. So I do think if you have
23:32
Speaker 3: a stretch like that, that can you can halt it
23:34
Speaker 3: after three or four games and do it with like
23:37
Speaker 3: an extra ending win the way the Cardinals kind of
23:38
Speaker 3: had this last time through.
23:40
Speaker 4: Maybe that ends up sustaining you.
23:42
Speaker 3: If it goes on for five, six, seven days a
23:45
Speaker 3: week and every night the pitching's getting shelled and they're
23:48
Speaker 3: walking guys again, that kind of goes into the brand
23:50
Speaker 3: of baseball. I think that is a key. Gotta limit
23:53
Speaker 3: those walks as of pitching staff, because that's part of
23:55
Speaker 3: the way that you'll be able to avoid the long
23:57
Speaker 3: losing skids and continue to say, hey, look, we're still
24:00
Speaker 3: playing the type of baseball we want to play. We
24:03
Speaker 3: just have to find the key hit here and there
24:04
Speaker 3: to be able to limit the stretches where it doesn't
24:07
Speaker 3: look the way.
24:08
Speaker 4: You want it to look.
24:09
Speaker 3: And I think from a record perspective, like it is
24:11
Speaker 3: nice that they've built a little bit of a cushion
24:13
Speaker 3: so far early to where if they do endure a
24:16
Speaker 3: little stretch like that, as long as they can snap
24:18
Speaker 3: out of it relatively quickly, you can kind of hang
24:21
Speaker 3: in there around five hundred and keep people's interests. And
24:25
Speaker 3: I do think that's something the Cardinals can do. We
24:27
Speaker 3: both agree on the side of the ball that it
24:30
Speaker 3: could kind of go the other way.
24:32
Speaker 4: It's the pitching.
24:32
Speaker 3: It's the starting rotation in particular, and if those guys
24:35
Speaker 3: can continue to be on their p's and q's and
24:38
Speaker 3: at least get you those five inning outings that keep
24:40
Speaker 3: you in games, like the Cardinals are going to have
24:42
Speaker 3: some success this year. And I think it's going to
24:45
Speaker 3: be able to avoid those long losing skids that really
24:48
Speaker 3: could cause people to tear their hair out a little bit.
24:50
Speaker 4: They do.
24:51
Speaker 3: They want the wins gym and they might become addicted
24:53
Speaker 3: to them if the Cardinals keep providing them early in
24:55
Speaker 3: the season.
24:55
Speaker 1: The way that we're seeing, they're like ples, you know,
24:58
Speaker 1: like if I look at and you think to yourself,
25:02
Speaker 1: is am I seeing a trend here?
25:04
Speaker 2: Right?
25:04
Speaker 1: That's the fun of it is trying to see what's
25:06
Speaker 1: going on. And when they drop those three in a row, yeah,
25:09
Speaker 1: I wanted to see the way they responded because they
25:12
Speaker 1: have such a young team, they don't really have veterans,
25:15
Speaker 1: but that leadership is pretty solid and they responded well.
25:18
Speaker 1: And that told me some about this ball club. Like
25:21
Speaker 1: JJ Wader or it's a rookie, you wouldn't know that
25:23
Speaker 1: talking to him when is the leader of that team?
25:26
Speaker 1: In my opinion, all those guys that have a part
25:31
Speaker 1: in the leadership are all young, but they're all mature
25:34
Speaker 1: beyond their years. Right, So like Burley is another guy,
25:37
Speaker 1: you think he's a ten year veteran. Yeah, that told
25:40
Speaker 1: me some about this team. Do you think there's something
25:42
Speaker 1: to that the way they bounce back from their first
25:45
Speaker 1: taste of adversity and look pretty good doing it.
25:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like it's something that Ollie Martle has preached
25:51
Speaker 3: and talking about sort of building that accountability to where
25:55
Speaker 3: when things aren't going well, it's not just hang your
25:58
Speaker 3: head and no boy here. It comes like there's an
26:01
Speaker 3: accountability within that clubhouse to whether it's player to player,
26:05
Speaker 3: coach to player, coach to coach, whatever the case might be,
26:09
Speaker 3: that I think everybody's on the same page about what
26:11
Speaker 3: they need it to look like and as long as
26:13
Speaker 3: they stay committed to that daily process. It sounds very cliche,
26:16
Speaker 3: I'll admit, but I think there is something to it,
26:19
Speaker 3: and it takes a certain level of maturity for young
26:21
Speaker 3: players to be able to kind of stay locked in
26:24
Speaker 3: that way when you're going through a slump. But always
26:27
Speaker 3: talked about it like they want to be the type
26:29
Speaker 3: of clubhouse that when when somebody is going through it
26:33
Speaker 3: and obviously struggling out there, whether it's physical mistake, mental mistake,
26:37
Speaker 3: just a slump at the plate, they don't want that
26:39
Speaker 3: guy to go through it alone. And they have an
26:42
Speaker 3: environment that they're looking to foster where the teammates are
26:46
Speaker 3: in that clubhouse, making sure that that guy's not just
26:48
Speaker 3: in the corner by himself kind of heading the phone
26:51
Speaker 3: for a few days in a row, feeling isolated in
26:54
Speaker 3: that struggle. It is kind of like a Kumbai a
26:59
Speaker 3: type of thing, and maybe some people buy into it,
27:01
Speaker 3: others don't. But I think there's an element of that
27:03
Speaker 3: too when it comes to team building that when you've
27:05
Speaker 3: got young guys that haven't gone through that failure in
27:08
Speaker 3: a sustained way at the major league level, so they
27:11
Speaker 3: might feel like the weight of the world is on
27:12
Speaker 3: their shoulders when it inevitably comes for you in this game.
27:15
Speaker 3: To be able to have teammates that is a close
27:18
Speaker 3: knit group and has a bunch of mature guys to
27:20
Speaker 3: help bring one another out of those moments and know
27:23
Speaker 3: that they got to stay the course. I think there's
27:25
Speaker 3: value in that it's tangible. I don't know how many
27:27
Speaker 3: wins it provides, Jim, but I do think that it
27:29
Speaker 3: can limit some of the downsides of Yeah, you know what,
27:33
Speaker 3: we maybe don't have the most swing and miss pitching staff,
27:35
Speaker 3: and maybe at the end of the year we won't
27:37
Speaker 3: at the most home runs, but if we do the
27:39
Speaker 3: little things, well, that's going to I'll go to a
27:42
Speaker 3: quote that all of has said multiple times, win more
27:45
Speaker 3: games than we're supposed to. I think is almost a
27:47
Speaker 3: mantra for this team. You can throw that expected win
27:51
Speaker 3: loss out the window. Yeah, they're going to lose some
27:53
Speaker 3: games nine to three, but they've got the type of
27:55
Speaker 3: team build that they're also I think in a farewell
27:58
Speaker 3: in those close games, and when they don't, they'll learn
28:00
Speaker 3: something from it, so that can lead to winning more
28:02
Speaker 3: games than you're supposed to throughout a season.
28:07
Speaker 2: My take is chemistry is whatever wins. Okay, teams have
28:10
Speaker 2: different chemistry.
28:12
Speaker 1: Some guys hate each other like it's the Great Yankee
28:14
Speaker 1: teams used to fight with each other in the clubhouse,
28:17
Speaker 1: then go and beat someone ten to two. Last thing
28:20
Speaker 1: before we let you go, I put my hat on
28:21
Speaker 1: backwards because I'm.
28:22
Speaker 2: Gonna noticed Ali. I enjoy Ali. I know you do.
28:27
Speaker 1: I think he's pretty transparent. I think he's great with
28:29
Speaker 1: the fans. I think he's great with the media. But
28:32
Speaker 1: even when they were not good, I know that he
28:35
Speaker 1: never lost the team.
28:36
Speaker 2: I'm in there right.
28:37
Speaker 1: I know guys respect him and played for him before
28:40
Speaker 1: this reset. Just your thoughts on whether or not Ali
28:44
Speaker 1: is winning over the fan base because let's face it,
28:47
Speaker 1: there were a lot of haters out there, and I
28:49
Speaker 1: don't hear from as many Ali haters as I used to.
28:54
Speaker 3: Oh man, you got to spend more time on social media.
28:57
Speaker 3: They're still out there and it blows my mind sometimes.
29:00
Speaker 3: But I think, Jim, like when you talk about you're
29:02
Speaker 3: in the room, I'm in the room. We get opportunities
29:05
Speaker 3: to see the level of detail that Oliver marmal and
29:09
Speaker 3: his coaching staff.
29:09
Speaker 4: By the way, it's not just him. It's a group effort.
29:12
Speaker 3: The detail and the attention that they put into a
29:16
Speaker 3: lot of the aspects of the game that allow the
29:18
Speaker 3: Cardinals to maybe thrive in some of those little things,
29:21
Speaker 3: the preparation. We get a chance to like pick their
29:23
Speaker 3: brains about that and see it come to fruition on
29:26
Speaker 3: the field more often than not.
29:28
Speaker 4: And so I feel like there is a.
29:30
Speaker 3: Disconnect from time to time because when Cardinals fans are
29:33
Speaker 3: more inclined to be watching the postgame show after a
29:37
Speaker 3: tough loss, they'll see Ali, you know, maybe be a
29:40
Speaker 3: little gruff there on the podium and answer a couple
29:43
Speaker 3: of questions and think, oh, this guy, this guy doesn't
29:45
Speaker 3: know what he's doing.
29:46
Speaker 4: It couldn't be further from the truth.
29:47
Speaker 2: You know that.
29:48
Speaker 3: I know that the way to articulate that always to
29:51
Speaker 3: a fan base that is looking for something to be
29:53
Speaker 3: mad about when things don't go well. Hell, when things
29:56
Speaker 3: do go well, they're sometimes looking for something to be
29:58
Speaker 3: mad about. Oh, didn't take Ryan's stance out soon enough
30:01
Speaker 3: with the bases loaded. It's a it's a second guess.
30:04
Speaker 3: He position by nature a big league manager. I think
30:08
Speaker 3: really relative to what I've seen over like ten years
30:10
Speaker 3: of doing this, Ollie Marmle has a really good finger
30:13
Speaker 3: on the pulse of.
30:14
Speaker 4: The decisions that he makes.
30:15
Speaker 3: He won't bat a thousand and making perfect decisions, but
30:18
Speaker 3: I don't think there's everone that he makes that doesn't
30:20
Speaker 3: have some logic behind it, even if that's not always
30:24
Speaker 3: seen by the fan base. Realistically, Jim winning and continuing
30:29
Speaker 3: to win is what will win over those fans on
30:33
Speaker 3: the manager, whether that's Oliver Marmel and Saint Louis or
30:35
Speaker 3: any manager in the big leagues. I don't think it's
30:38
Speaker 3: quite happened yet, but I have seen some people kind
30:40
Speaker 3: of say, you know, I used to be kind of
30:43
Speaker 3: hard on Ali. I'm starting to see the light a
30:44
Speaker 3: little bit. I think little by little there are more
30:47
Speaker 3: fans that are that are kind of hip to what's
30:49
Speaker 3: going on with that.
30:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, Brandon Schaefer, I call him b He's on MLB
30:54
Speaker 1: dot com. He's on STL Sports Central. He's on the
30:58
Speaker 1: radio station in Colonne via YouTube. Pretty much if there's
31:01
Speaker 1: any media, Brennan Shaffer would be there. I used to
31:04
Speaker 1: do a radio show with him before I destroyed the
31:06
Speaker 1: radio station fall by myself. But I gotta tell you
31:11
Speaker 1: a pleasure to do this with you. You were great
31:13
Speaker 1: and thanks for coming up.
31:15
Speaker 4: Appreciate it, Jim.
31:16
Speaker 1: Anytime that's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
31:21
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time for the next edition, and
31:23
Speaker 1: hopefully that one won't suck.