Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Calling Home

Transcript

Calling Home · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Hi. Hi. How are you?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I'm okay. Is it okay? Did I do okay? Was that good?
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: You did fantastic. I'm so grateful. You're the hero of that. I just I I I did not have a knowledge base, and they were so eager, and it was so kind of them to come and share. But you did great, and you had great questions, and you had insights and helped it flow.
• 1:32
  I And am grateful. Thank you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: It's so good to see you.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Right? Stranger danger? Where have you been?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Well, for the last hour I've been in your corner.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Look at that. It's like
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: a bug here in my back.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: How is it going? We okay. So let's recap for a minute. We are in month two of our experiment.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: No idea. I have no idea.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Month two of our experiment. How are you doing on your end of things?
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I'm tired, but hanging in there. Like, I as I've said before, I can only have, like, an awareness bubble of a little bit before and a little bit behind. So, like, I can't do anything long term plan ish, but I can get through today.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Right? It's like a different kind of dissociation.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: It kind of is.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: I know. I mean, I know it's not DID, and it's not the same as a trauma response, but it's a functioning temporal response somehow. I know I've been there. I'm sorry.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And, also, plans change so much that I can't think too far ahead. And, like, it's just the small bubble is is easiest to manage, so that's where I stay.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: But it's okay. Like, I'm getting through. I'm not I'm not getting any writing done or any sort of major projects, but I'm but I didn't have those problems during the interview.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: How are your parents doing?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Well, they seem they seem more frail to me, all three of them, actually. Tuffy has lost about five pounds because he's just not eating. Mom had that one day where she fell three times in a day, and she hasn't really fallen since then, but she's very vague. She's very sort of drifting in and out. Dad wobbles every time he stands, and he's still trying to I think he still believes that everything's fine and that mom will recover.
• 3:58
  He he did not wanna have anything to do with that medical bed. I think part of him still thinks her problem moving around is just in her head, which kind of it is, but also not in that way.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Dementia is not the same as bad behavior.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so they're they're hanging in there. Glad Alicia is coming out for Christmas.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Your sister is coming out for Christmas? Yeah. That was very sweet what she said about the podcast. Did you see her comment? She said something like the last thing you need is one more thing to happen or or something about to feel unsafe.
• 4:37
  And so I just so appreciated that because I had no idea that she had kept that confidence and that she was still listening to the podcast. So
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: She she didn't know about the second one and somehow discovered it. And she's like, oh my goodness. There's another podcast that I didn't know, and so I'm gonna start listening. She was so excited to have found it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Well, when things kind of came to a head last year, we published all the ones we had ready here and kind of did the other episodes, but then brought this one back. And so they're all here now. That's what she's found is that it didn't actually stop. And so so she's just found that there were more episodes. How do you feel about her hearing, like, piece by piece?
• 5:26
  Seasons is down, but piece by piece or us talking about me talking about sexuality or things like that? Like, is that uncomfortable if she hears that? Are you still okay with those episodes being up?
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't say anything that I would hide from. I don't I didn't think you said anything that I would hide from. They're not conversations that I've ever had with her before, but just knowing her as a person, she's a very sensitive person and thoughtful, and I don't I don't have any problem with her hearing them.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Hold on. Can you hear that?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Hear what?
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: That sound in the background are the planes breaking the sound barrier.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I did hear a little rumble. It sounded like poster board being wobbled.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: I am my own right stuff.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: You are the right stuff. Can
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: you hear
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Not at the moment.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. We're recording, and they're doing this. I'm just waiting. So okay. So I know you don't have a lot of time.
• 6:49
  You've got you have to pick up kids in a little bit, and I just wanted to check-in. I don't know. Just to check-in and see how you are doing and life there. I feel like I'm trying to do some zarenting, some parenting by Zoom, right, and helping with bedtime sometimes and doing we're doing some a lot of art, some drawing classes and things, and finding ways to engage them and tend to them. The older kids email me almost every day.
• 7:25
  And so we have these connections, but I know it's not the same. And yet, also, it's more access than I ever had on another deployment. And so Yeah.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Right? And so I'm trying to be grateful. It's a hard thing. Like, when we talk about the adding of, like, I'm I'm working these really long hours, have caught up our bills from losing that contract last summer, which wasn't my fault, just the COVID response not being renewed. And it continues to be so scary, at least for me, like just providing for a big family, but pulling through always somehow we always yeah.
• 8:12
  It's just been rough and lots of extra work and long hours. Like, for the last two months, I have been working probably fifteen hours a day, not taking a lunch just to get as much as I could. And now that we're getting caught up, that's like a goal we talked about in therapy today actually of reducing how many hours a day I'm working and maybe taking a lunch hour. Also right? But also I don't want to waste my time away.
• 8:47
  And I'm also, one of the things we talked about in therapy today was struggling a little bit with the idea, not survivor guilt, but something in that I had those two years in quarantine that was so hard, and now you have the kids by yourself and that I'm really happy and healthy right now without all of that. Yeah. And and I don't it's hard to process that.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't not love the children. It's it's not that. It just Yes. Has been really hard what we've done.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm really glad you get a a season of rest and healing. Rest, rest, and healing.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Right. Right. And so I talked to her also about traveling. I said, ideally because you know therapy. Right?
• 9:38
  So the way I said it was, like, ideally, a good mom would go home for Thanksgiving Christmas, but also, like, the idea of being in the airports at that time just completely makes me panic. And because of the weather, it's not a time to be driving. And she said, well, why do you have to have the holidays on the holidays? And I said, well, we don't, and we never really have our family for lots of reasons. Sometimes it's just hard for me.
• 10:07
  Sometimes they don't like kind of triggers and stuff. And so we never really have worried about that. But the issue practically and pragmatically is simply that they're out of school. And so when are they out of school? And so we talked again, I told her about my plan of what if I paired them up and brought two here for Thanksgiving and two here for Christmas and two here for spring break.
• 10:31
  And then Jules and I are going to come back for Kyrie's baptism in the spring. And so, like, I know I get to come to Oklahoma for that trip, but also that's a long time to be away. That's I don't know, but if they have an escort on the flight and get that special room between flights and they make sure they get here, whereas if I'm traveling in the middle of all the holiday chaos and they're like, your flight's canceled and we don't care about you. Like, you can actually travel more safe like safely and more easily than what I could travel. I don't know.
• 11:12
  What are you thinking? Is that disheartening?
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: No. It's not disheartening because I you know, just sort of based on our discussions, I I'm under the impression that it could be a long time before we get to see you again here. Hilarious.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: It just is what it is.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry. It's hard.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: It's I'm I'm not actually writing anything these days. I'm not I'm not like, oh, gotta go write. But just just sleep. It's okay.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: The the other thing I talked about in therapy today. Well, okay. So for context, the last two weeks on the podcast have been the episodes of Al, my other friend from college.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Those have come out. And so it's been super triggering and a lot, but really, really good. And one of the things that she and I talked about in our the episode the part of the episodes that did air was how hard it is to be in church sometimes because of that happening and because of what we went through and how wrapped up our lives were in that and how, like, invasive and pervasive all of that was. And so I told the story about sitting in the van outside of church of like, how long have I been sitting in the van? Like, I don't mean how long today.
• 12:40
  I mean, like, how how how many months or years have I been leaving church to go sit in the van? And she talked about how she hasn't been back to church at all since the pandemic. And then today hold on. Let me pull this up. Maybe it'll be easier on my computer.
• 12:57
  Hold on. It's worth reading this.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: You are lovely, by the way.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Aw. Thanks. Here it is. So today, she sent me this picture, which I can send to you. I put it up on Patreon, but I can send it to you.
• 13:12
  I'll text it to you. But she sent me this picture of this little tiny country church, and she said, after I told you about looking for a church, we finally found one. It is an even smaller town about twenty minutes away, and somehow I magically love it. Maybe because it's extremely small, but also because of the pastor and his family. And I volunteered to clean the church when I found out that the youth had been doing it and it was suffering a lot.
• 13:42
  So all of a sudden, I'm in charge of this place of cleaning it and even arranging it, and it's pretty amazing. I think like I have control of my own church environment, literally. And today while I was cleaning, I played part of your podcast in the sanctuary, and I heard your voice and my voice telling the truth in there.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Right? It made me cry. Isn't that lovely?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: It's so good. And it was such fascinating timing because the other thing I talked about in therapy today was that, well, I talked to her just, talked to her about the new that the booklets for the youth of the church had come out, and they were updated. And I talked to her about how I went through it and how it's much more sensitive language. It's much more pro mental health. And I really like those changes.
• 14:40
  But it's also still those pieces of the boundaries of the playground. You know? Could you somehow delicately enough re explain the playground concept so that I can use it because that episode was seasons that got taken down? How would you explain the playground concept? I know it came out in conversation, but now we reference it without explaining it.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I may not remember it all correctly, but we were talking about boundaries and how when you were growing up, there were very clear boundaries, but they were like prison walls. They were something that you were absolutely not allowed to cross because everyone inside of those boundaries were bad. And not only was crossing the wall the bad thing, but it was like exposing the rest of the world to your badness. But as you are moving forward, that we can look at those boundaries as being more like playground fences, that you are being given a clear line of what is safe to play in, that it's not the children in the playground are not bad. They're good children, and the fence is put there by someone who loves them and wants to keep them safe.
• 16:18
  It gives them a clear understanding of where is the space, where it is free to play and explore, and the boundary is there for safety, not for separating them from the world, but to help them to know where they can just be themselves. They can, you know, they can go wild if they want to in this safe space. It is a a demarcation of an area of freedom as opposed to the limits, the barriers that we cage in bad people.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yes. And so we right. Right. Right. Right.
• 16:55
  Okay. And so we also talked about how, like, the transparency and the consent of all that so that I'm choosing for myself as opposed to it being done for me or against me in the present. Right?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: So so, anyway, so we were talking about these booklets coming out for the youth, and it reminded me of that and how these felt like softer fences. Maybe not moved fences, but softer fences. Like, there was the language, the tone is a little different. But, also I was talking with her about like what applies to me, what doesn't apply to me because it's for youth and I'm adult or because of relationships, things like that. And there were some pieces that in the context of religious trauma, like those episodes coming out this week, that are just really hard in that trying to navigate how to hold both, I feel like the world makes it really, really hard to hold both of being holy myself, but also maintaining my faith because I am a person who is choosing faith.
• 18:24
  And there's so much of culture in Jesus people that is right? Like, I don't know how else to say it. That is, like, sometimes just like, it's it's not what I wanna be a part of, and it's not who I wanna be, and I don't think it's good or healthy. And I don't I don't mean, like, Jesus the person. I mean, like, people badly
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: represent even mean belief in Jesus. It's a cultural thing built around it.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Right. Right. Which is not the same at all. Right? And so we talked about the differences of that a lot.
• 19:03
  And she told me about this book called Conversations with God. Have you heard of it?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard that phrase, but I've never read the book.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: It's a book, she said, that would be good for me to read. I haven't read it yet. But anyway, she told me about that. And then also I told her, like almost as a joke, except you don't joke with your therapist, right? Like that never goes well because then it's homework.
• 19:29
  But I made a joke of like, maybe I need a therapist from our church, but who's also queer in some way, to just really delve into these pieces specifically because my therapist doesn't go to our church and I don't want her to just not understand, except she really did understand a lot and she was really good about it. But because of that conversation, we found another pod podcast actually, which is my first time besides like NPR to like look up a podcast specifically. But it's by these queer women who are members of our church. And I just listened to the quick introduction before this, and it was kind of fascinating. Kind of fascinating.
• 20:25
  And so I'll tell you more about that or send you the link just so you know.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do. I do.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: But it was interesting. Anyway, so I went from I went from all this, from those episodes happening this week to the youth booklet being announced and reading through that to going to therapy and talking about that. And then I did another podcast interview earlier today with a man who actually is a clinician colleague of mine that I helped bring to speak to ISSTD for the virtual conference this fall. And he is actually someone who escaped a cult, not like a I don't know. Like, he he with, like, an Indian guru kind of cult.
• 21:19
  And so in the context of me struggling with cultic culture, which is not the same as my faith
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: And the evangelical college that was a cult, like, literally on the list. Remember the English teacher found it, like, literally on the cult list?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot about that. Mhmm.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And, like, all these contacts were up together. So, basically, I have cried all day. So I know I'm not even coherent in trying to update you on this, but it was just so much, and I wanted to share. And I don't I don't even know so much what I want to share so much as, like, just it was a lot and trying to process all of that. And it it it was just a lot.
• 22:15
  I went and I ended up spending the night at Jewel's house. I it was interesting because it was an example to me of appreciating those boundaries of, like, on a night that was really, really hard. I also didn't have to be alone. So, like, one of the things we've been talking about in therapy is, like, a lot about this nonbinary stuff. And I don't mean gender, but I mean not binary thinking.
• 22:44
  I don't have to think.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be either or.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Yes. I don't have to be this kind of member or I don't get to be a member at all. I don't have to be the perfect culture person or my faith doesn't count. Like, that's not what it's like. And I can like, I know what my faith means to me, and I know what my covenants are.
• 23:12
  I know where my playground is, and I can be true to all of those things without having to be someone I'm not.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And You could be you could be a good wife and mother without being an Insta mommy. Right? Not perfect in bond.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Not an Insta mommy, for sure. So I don't know. It's just really helpful. I have all these I don't know. I have all these little post it notes and I don't even have anything extra interesting or coherent even to share so much as I just wanted to share all those updates.
• 23:54
  And in therapy, how we've been talking about how these feelings are being tracked, like which is why I escaped to the van, right? Or the feelings of being told what to do or who I have to be, and how that's a reenactment of trauma from when I was little, from trauma from that college. And so it makes sense that I'm super sensitive. And I appreciate the guy I interviewed this morning said, like, the capacity to self reflect with self compassion
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Rather than just, I'm bad because I can't be a good enough person.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: And my therapist is like, like, you literally are doing so much good in the world. You can't let one person or a family of people who don't actually know you in real life decide who you are. They don't get to even vote on who you are. You choose who you are, and you are like, you already exist. You don't need their permission to be, and you don't need their approval to be good.
• 25:12
  You are you, and you are doing good in the world.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: She also talked to me about compersion. Have you heard of compersion?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: No.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: It was a new word for me. She says it comes from the poly community and basically means, like, being happy that your partner is happy, being happy, like in a compassionate, I'm happy that you're happy. She talked about having conversion for myself of, like, talking about the difference between feeling guilt and shame only and feeling happy with just that it's okay that I'm happy, that I don't have to suffer to be good, that our life has been hard for a decade, but that doesn't mean life is only about suffering.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So learning to be happy that you're happy. I like that.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Right? Isn't that interesting? But then so so usually, it's it's in reference to, like, other people. You're happy someone else is like, the antithesis of being jealous, I guess.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Right. Absolutely.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: But gifting that to yourself as well of being just it's okay that
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: You're happy and healthy even when life has changed.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: So tomorrow, there's a training all day. And then in the evening, Jules, they've invited me and me they've invited me to the show again, and it's Jesus Christ Superstar.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: What is that one?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: So Jesus Christ Superstar is one of the first maybe it's the second show written by Andrew Lloyd Webber, but you would never guess it was Andrew Lloyd Webber by listening to it. It's a rock opera. It tells the story of Jesus, like, last few days sort of of Jesus' life, but kind of from the perspective of Judas. In this version, he just sort of sees Jesus as somebody who is who is trying to win popularity and power and and attention. And so it's it's an interesting I will I will be very interested to see what you think about it because it is certainly not something that we would believe doctrinally, but it's clearly somebody's point of view on the bible story.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Because Judas does not have conversion.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: There we go. I think I think I've seen there was a a broadcast of a of a British production of it, and I watched parts of it. It's not it was originally released as an album. I don't know that it's something that is actually huge successful successful on stage, hugely successful, because it's like song. Song.
• 28:43
  Like, it's the it's not plot moving. It's not plot driven. But if you can listen to it as an opera and think about the stuff, it could be interesting.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Well, fascinating. That would be good. I'm trying to balance my life. I'm trying to when I have opportunity to rest and play to do so, I'm I'm doing well, I told you about adjusting my work schedule a little bit now that we've caught up financially some. Thank you, by the way, for sending the card.
• 29:19
  The whole world was waiting the breath or wait. The whole world was waiting
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Waiting with bated breath.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Ugh. That's a lot of bait.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Was holding their breath?
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm walking every day. I'm trying to eat okay. Today, I had butternut squash soup with tofu. I'm trying to do all the things. And my friend Jane from Many Sides of Jane
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: We have our lunch date scheduled finally. So I will do that. So I'm trying to do, like, the healthy things, but it's hard. What are you thinking? Am I boring you?
• 30:00
  And you're tired. You need to sleep. I took your nap time. Did I?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: No. Not at all. I actually have to go pick up children in just a moment. But
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Okay. I'm sorry.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Mostly what I was thinking is I miss you, and I just wanna give you a big hug and sit with you on the deck and have this conversation and look out at the trees and enjoy the fall weather. And
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: How do you think the kids are doing with me being gone?
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: They're doing okay. I think I think they're handling it okay. I there are a lot of times that there are rules that you set that I don't know about or that I don't have any information on, like, when this rule applies and this one doesn't. So I know I'm making a muddle of a lot of things, and I'm sorry about that. And I'm not doing a great job staying on top of chores and all those things.
• 30:56
  But we're we're hanging in there. Like, it's not we haven't, like, reached a death spiral or anything. We're just just moving along.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's a great gift that you give them and that relaxing and focus on presence that you're able to give in a way that's hard for me, I think really is a gift for them and it's good for them. It's okay to relax a little bit. You know, when they were so tiny and struggling so much and adjusting to be in a family at all, then having a routine and structure was super, super important. And I'm good at that piece. And so I'm glad I was there to do that.
• 31:40
  But now that they are well and happy and healthy and attached and adjusted as much as they're going to be, all of those things, and older, like, it's developmentally appropriate to loosen the reins a little bit and let it like, it's a messy adjustment, right, because they have to figure out how to do that because I'm not doing it. And we saw that. Like, I left and everything kind of fell apart, but also they're figuring it out. And that's that's healthy. That's appropriate.
• 32:17
  They don't need me to do it for them. And I think I had my own adjustment that was hard that they didn't need me anymore. And I think that was a piece I had to work through. But
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: There's an interesting conversation I've had lots of times where they asked for something, and I think about it, and I sort of brace myself. And then I'm like, okay. Go ahead and do it. And they're like, oh, now you're mad at me? I'm like, no.
• 32:47
  I'm saying do you can do what you asked for. They're like, I was just saying I wanted I was like, okay. I'm saying yes. Like, but you're mad. No.
• 33:01
  Because for so often, fine. Do it then. It's it's like how they perceive it. But I'm I'm trying to say yes more often when it's not a crisis.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Wish granted.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I probably need to go pick up kids. Okay. Don't want to go. I want to stay and just talk with you and hang out.
• 33:23
  We didn't get to talk about the the church downtown that's being given away.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Are you gonna buy a church?
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: No. Because I have no administrative skills.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: But you don't want the church for church. You want the church for a theater.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: What are you gonna do?
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not going to do it, but it has, like, at least a couple different chapels plus the fellowship hall. So you could, like, have a children's theater and a dinner theater, and you could have a black box theater where you're developing new musicals from around the country, and they've got rooms upstairs you could turn into dorms for resident artists. And, like, it's pretty cool, but I I don't have the mortal the mortality skills to do it.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Well, all you have to do first is just apply one step at a time.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Just apply application, you have to send in all of your like, you have to show your nonprofit structure is in place and who your board members are and how you're gonna raise the money, you have to have the budget laid out. And, like, I can dream things.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: It's okay. I feel like if I got it, then that would tie us to this one location, and I don't know that it's time for that yet.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I feel that is one thing that I'm also grieving, I think. You know, I I've done so much therapy about the whole idea that I thought I could save my family And that night in second grade where my parents were going to get divorced, and I went back and forth between them all night, negotiating, working things out so they didn't get divorced. And then they did when I was in fifth grade, and I realized, I didn't do it. Like, I failed. I failed my reason for being on Earth.
• 35:19
  And I know that's ridiculous, but that's what it felt to me. It was so devastating. That they were separating, that I had failed them. And I feel this with you, that I could not make a theater happen for you, that I could not get an audience for you, that I could not get enough financial resources with six children to be able to somehow make that happen or produce things for you. That I, that somehow that is withheld from you when you are so good and kind, but it's not something I can do and make happen.
• 36:00
  And it grieves me. And I know you already grieve. And it baffles me because if there is anyone who deserves some goodness in their life, it's you. And I'm sorry that the things that you love most keep being taken from you.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Well, no. You made me cry.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: You are something I love, and you can never be taken away.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: I care a great deal, and it has been a hard thing for me here. I don't mean working so hard. I mean, adjusting my own expectations of myself that for this season, that's what I'm offering and that caring for me and being healthier and happier and doing making the changes and accepting parts of myself and all of this therapy work that I I end up having more to offer. Even you and even the children, even when it takes a different shape than what I tried so hard to be that did not fit me. Yeah.
• 37:20
  And it's hard. It's a hard adjustment, I think.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love you.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I love you always. And I am grateful for your ongoing care for the children and so proud of you for your own therapy work. And I'm glad the new CPAP is helping a little bit and that you're feeling a little bit better even if also drained because of single parenting children. That's a lot.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: And now COVID is back in the school. I'm sorry. I made you cry. Can I send a virtual hug? Oh, oh, oh, oh.
• 38:08
  Hey. That's some good butterfly taps.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I do what I can. Bye. Bye.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: Love is not proud. Love does not boast. Love after all matters the most. Love does not run. Love does not hide.
• 38:36
  Love does not keep locked inside. Love is the river that flows through, and love never fails you. Love will sustain, love will provide, Love will not cease at the end of time, and love will protect. Love always hopes, and love still believes when you don't. Love is the arms that are holding you.
• 39:28
  Love never fails you.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing.