Latest / Beside Every Calling / Beside Every Calling | Episode 23: The Books We Can’t Stop Recommending

Transcript

Beside Every Calling | Episode 23: The Books We Can’t Stop Recommending · Beside Every Calling

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beside Every Calling, where a life you love is formed beside the call and not lost within it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: If your date night has occasionally included a hospital stop, or your kids played Let's Baptize in the pool instead of Marco Polo, you understand this rhythm.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Across every season, from little ones to leadership transitions to emptiness, we live beside the call while creating lives we love along the way.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So please get comfortable and let's dive into today's episode.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, friends, and welcome to this episode of Beside Every Calling, where a life you loved is formed beside the call and not lost within it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Debbie Daniels.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Jill Barber.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And today I think we have a really fun episode.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think as ministry spouses, we tend to be great at taking care of everybody else.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the keys Jill and I have talked about is continuing to care for yourself, because otherwise bitterness and pure exhaustion can set in.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we thought we'd spend this short episode today just talking about some books that have helped both of us, not only in how we think, helped us spiritually, helped us in ministry and relationships, and simply because they're great books.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jill, I'm gonna let you start, but I would love to know a book that changed how you think, and what did it change in you to help you see things differently?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll hold it up here.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it'll be backwards if somebody says it's Anne Graham Lotts, Wounded by God's People.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if you've read that one or not.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got obviously tons of little stickers in this one as well.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's so good.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's let me just say, it's so good for a pastor's spouse, at least for me and my heart and the time that I received it and got it.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and the way it kind of helped me change the way I think.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and let me just say, I think I was a bit naive when we got married and were just jumping into ministry.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's gonna be church camp a hundred time 100% all the time, you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But really, what ministry is is doing life with people and people are messy, obviously.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And my immature self and probably my immature thought on ministry uh did not take that into consideration.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so when board members or when really great people were a little bit, let's just call them grumpy, you know, grumpy about whatever, uh anything, it could have been anything, and we all have run into that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: This helped me realize that we are all those people at some time.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so to to be the wife of the leader, uh, you know, you take that personally, at least I did, and I wear that, and I'm like, oh my goodness, how do I get how how do I help him get through this?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: All that kind of stuff.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it was just really good.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I won't stay too long because I know we have a lot of books to talk about, but yeah, wounded by God's people and Gramlots, I I highly recommend.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's one of yours?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, Jill, you're a good rule follower and you followed my instructions and have one book for each.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have a stack going up to the ceiling over here, but I just don't I just have a few, and I will list our books in the uh at the end of the show notes for everyone looking for what we talk about.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So don't feel like you have to stop driving and write things down or something.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I have actually three I'm gonna take off from you've got a library for each one.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do, but I and I literally Scott and I live in a house of books.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: We live amongst books, and I'm currently giving away 17 more boxes of books in the garage.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Slowly we're going to get rid of them.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to have books that you touch and smell and flip the pages.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a book that changed how I think absolutely and these you're gonna be like, oh, but okay, my first one, I have to just say it was I couldn't find the book, but it's The Life You Always Want by John Ortberg, and it's somewhere in this house.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the modern day version of it is practicing the way by John Mark Homer.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, if you it's all Dallas Willard, but Dallas Willard's writing is above my head.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I've tried reading Dallas' stuff, but I do much better reading people mentored by him or have chewed it up, and then they put it in common day terms.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if you love, but seriously, what changed my life was relentlessly take hurry out of your life.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And my soul still can't take when someone tries to hurry me up.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even overseas, I'm like, mm-mm, my soul doesn't do that anymore.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I do not hurry.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um practicing the wedding, but then I also I sorry, I it's just three different pieces of have changed how I think because in the church, when I became a Christian, again, you grew up in the church, I didn't, but I there are lots of different ways Christians think, and that was confusing for me.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And one person that I've stayed centered on my whole time once I've discovered him is everything Bob Goff love always, like he there, he boils it down to one thing love people.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: That that's our job in scripture again and again and again, love people.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how he has stayed out of the politics, he just focuses on what Jesus did, and so Bob Goff's and then my last one, and this is kind of fluffy too, um, but I love him.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Mark Batterson, the circle maker.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: You need to constantly be reminded if your dream and ministry is something you can accomplish, you know, that that's so sad.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I always want to be God-sized dreams.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And Mark Batterson is a writer that reminds me again and again that God does crazy, crazy things, even in 2026.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that those would be my three.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry that I wasn't a good rule follower on my own question.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I have three, but I really could give you a library if you could all come sit in my room with me because I know that's great.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am I am a reader and a learner.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me let me give you the next question.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: What book helped you spiritually or has helped you, or is helping you spiritually?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Other than the Bible, the Bible, you can't answer.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: The Bible, totally, yeah, yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those three, and they all overlap for me, but also spiritually, Braving the Wilderness, Brene Brown.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love her stuff spiritually, that helps.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then another one I have, and we mentioned it in another episode, Schazario, Peter Schazario.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everything he and his wife have written, I have loved because it reminds me God isn't calling me to live a life of exhaustion on fumes.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when I start doing it, that's me, not God's calling.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that has been really helpful too.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: What about you?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, uh-huh, again, rule follower over here for this episode at least.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that about mine is fervent.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Fervent.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that book too.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by Priscilla Schreier.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and I marked uh one of the chapters here.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let me find it real quick.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was right here confronting your worries by claiming your calling.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just it's just unbelievable.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this just this whole thing.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just this whole thing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm reading it again and again and again.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it's a woman's battle plan for serious, specific, and strategic prayer, is if you haven't heard of it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have read it in the past, grab it back out, refresh your soul with this, is what I would say.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's mine for that one.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday, pulling out books for this episode.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the office over three hours because I kept trying to reread.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I had so many books.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: But on Priscilla Shire, I also want to mention have you read War Room, the the N scene the show?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have not read that one.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that would be great.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which usually Christian shows, I'm like, um, and I think it's part of doing Hollywood sitcoms, but they're not always that caliber.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: War Room is a great movie to rent and watch, especially if your marriage is in trouble and you're like, I've got to pray through or something else, a child or something.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do love all of her teachings too.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, let's go on.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the third one, a book that helped you administer your relationships.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: You got like 10 or 20 of them over there?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I have one and it rocked my world.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you were actually in a Zoom meeting with me when someone mentioned to us this book, and then four of us bought it.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this book.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: The title is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it really helped me because I know a lot of people don't know, but I grew up with a single mom and it wasn't always a healthy environment, and it helped me so much.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: But as I listened to it on Audible, I still listen to it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's one chapter on dealing with hard people, and I still listen to it because I think everyone in ministry should read this book because these people are in all of our churches.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's the me that grew up with that and is dealing with wounds and trying to get healthy, and there's also the the adult that's emotionally unhealthy that you're like, why did they just do that?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like they never grow in their own.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, and this book explains not only how they act and how you should act, but also what to do to keep maturing past it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I really, really love this book, and it's by Lindsay Gibson.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I cannot, and everyone I have told to read this has emailed me or text me back saying, Debbie, it rocked my role.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I know.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've bought it for probably seven people in my life.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let me, I've heard a pastor, and I don't think it was Sam, believe it or not, that was talking about about this idea about immature family members or people in our life that we are like, wait a minute, that kind of thing.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you're recognizing something isn't quite right there.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, he said it's kind of like a knot hole in a tree, you know, a big tree, and you see a knot hole in a tree.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you yourself, as you are doing reading that book and growing, you you don't ever see yourself this like this person, but your emotional maturity is going around that person and just keep growing, and they're gonna stay right here because they're for whatever reason, maybe they can't help it, or maybe they don't have the tools to get you know more mature or whatever.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to grow around that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: You just you can't stop where they are, and it's so good because on that, I mean, I'll be I don't talk about it and I won't until this season of life where it wouldn't hurt my mom's feelings, but it's mental illness, and so while she can't change that, I can change how I react and how I behave so that my kids have a healthy adult mom.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Jill.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you tell us what is a book that has helped you in ministry?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh Forgiving what you can't forget by Lisa Turkish.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, so many little things in here.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just it was just water to my soul, especially at a time where hurt was running rampant and it was deep and um surprised by the who where the hurt came from.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh someone told me about this book, and I grabbed it off of Amazon, I think it was, uh just a handful of years ago.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but this is just really good.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you do with, you know, we forgive people, or at least we try to, but the memories, the memories just kind of stay there.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do with that?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: How does that how does God heal the memories?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where can we put those memories?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can God really help those uh memories to go away and time will heal that and all that kind of stuff anyway?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really good forgiving what you can't forget.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Bethmar has a saying on that in one of her lessons years and years ago.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: She talks about how you know it's a wound.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: If when you talk about it, it still hurts, you still physically respond, but it's a scar because it's always going to be a part of your story, and so your goal is to get it to be a scar.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought that was a beautiful way of explaining it.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's excellent.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, a book uh you read simply because you loved it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you guys, I have two authors that rocked my world, and I have now read, I have the last one, but the first I'm gonna give you the first one, but two that have rocked my world.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you have not read Sensible Shoes, she has four books.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: This book is amazing, and I can't wait to do a group study with this book online.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I plan to do this because one of the characters, you will be her, and it's just so well written.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Sharon Garlow Brown, a spiritual uh story about a spiritual journey, Sensible Shoes.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But there's four in the series.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a great book, and I have done it with some Mops moms and love this book.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But my current author, that I truly I literally have 14 books lined up.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have read everything she has now written.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Her last four books are in my drawer, ready for traveling to Africa soon.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm gonna pull out the first ones because hold on.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, you guys.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna show you so you can have a good laugh if you're online.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this is one.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not like my husband laughs, but the series I've started with was Sister Chicks, which is kind of my jam.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I was looking at all the other books that we've talked about.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you walked in our house, like literally in this office, there's 500 books on the walls.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're my husband and I are readers, he reads at a different level than me.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but most of the time, my books I'm underlining, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to get better, I want to be a better mom, a better person, a better, you know, ministry person, whatever leaders, marketing, you name it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get better at it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: These have helped me to shut my brain off at night and just enjoy a beautiful Christian story.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I love that piece.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people read romantic novels and all the other stuff.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love it's still tweaking me spiritually a little bit.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just love so Robin Gunn, Robin Jones gun.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Start with sister chicks.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, then you have to get to this series on oh, it's just there's I'm not even gonna say all of them, but I can't tell you how much you will love Robin.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you like, again, it's kind of fluffy.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: My husband would never read these, but I'm telling you, I would put them in a suitcase and not bring clothes as we travel overseas to make sure I could that's how much I love them.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: The one I'm on right now, uh, two girlfriends are traveling to Africa, which is crazy for me.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they just went to the draft park that I really wanted to go to that we didn't get to.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not bitter, whatever.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'll get past it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, if you love to just turn off your brain, which I think that goes back to the episode with Dr.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Chris Adams, it's kind of play for me that for the first time in my life, I'm just reading for fun.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And once in a while, I'll just go sit outside and read for 30 minutes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like, what am I on vacation?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, you are for 30 minutes.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you do better than I.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I um I don't read romantic novels.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I or girlfriend stuff.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I haven't.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just say that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's another place I need to branch into.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the girlfriend stuff or the romantic novels?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, kind of both.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I I would rather function.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather watch the movie than read those books.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know my mom even says this.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, the books are so much better.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that they probably are.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I've read a few.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I haven't, but uh, it's just not my jam.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So when I read, I I like to read things that are going to uh I'm gonna try to aspire to learn uh or to apply to me, you know, kind of thing.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want it to be work, but I just want it to be what make you a better person.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of trying, well, hopefully, you know, so like the Mark Batterson's, the Bob Goffs, the Lisa Turkish.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of my jam.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I've mentioned Dr.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Henry Cloud boundaries before.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's just all of those, of course.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: But Dr.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Les Parrot, uh, love like that, uh, is just really, really good.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, five relationship secrets from Jesus.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just like, oh, things that you just kind of dig into.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I know this is Dr.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: James Tobson, but when God doesn't make sense.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this book really ministered to my mom when my dad passed.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, great guy, uh just at 51, got a brain tumor and it was malignant.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in six months and nine days, he passed.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so she's like, wait, what?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he didn't do anything wrong.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, it just life just happened.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so this really ministered to her.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's really ministering to me.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just just I'm still reading this one.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but just stuff like that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, and then I can, I guess I like to have those in my arsenal of when I'm getting to meet people or know people, and they'll say, and they're kind of looking for help, maybe, or just something to what's the next step?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I can hopefully say, Hey, you've got to read this book, or maybe I'll send that book to them or whatever.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, there's there's a few more.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just throw these out here.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm more than just a pastor's wife, uh Lorna Dobson.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Together for Good is the newest one that I just got about a month ago, and I have not read this, so let me just say this is a new one for me to read.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: What if it's terrible and you just told people to read it?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I well, I know.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna be reading it with you.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but Together for Good, Justin Smith, a couple's guide to thriving in Christian Ministry.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I that one just came to my attention through somebody, I forget, so I grabbed it and I grabbed it off the book, my bookshelf, going, oh shoot, I haven't read this one yet.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to read this one.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, and you can still wear cute shoes, uh, is a really fun one, uh, Lisa McKay.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, it's you know, if you're a pastor's spouse, uh, or uh even a wife on that one.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: But but those are I'm gonna add on not only cute shoes, you can wear cute anything.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: A right, you wear what makes you feel beautiful, and if it's cute and flurry great, and if it's just or plain old black, like moi, that's okay too.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say a hearty amen on all that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think let's just end with I think it's important to continually keep developing and growing.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the season I'm in is a difficult one.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of it is that I am loving Robin Jones gun books because there's the spiritual Christian side to it, but yet my brain doesn't have to think, oh, where's the pen to underline this?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and especially now, I just bought her last three books because we're getting ready to travel.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And from here, when by the time you hear this, most likely I'll be overseas.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And our travel won't stop until May.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a crazy, crazy life where we have enjoyed three weeks at home for the first time in three years.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just a luxury, which seems so crazy.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm getting into the rhythm on year four.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And but I think it's important for each season.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what I want to say is no matter where you are, you're never the same place you were.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're trying to use the same tools you used a year ago or 10 years ago and wondering why they're not working, well, you're not the same person.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, you're not the same person, uh physically, emotionally, and even spiritually, because you are always growing and you're always uh you're it's just amazing.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sam, the the woman Sam married, I am not that woman.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm physically that woman, but I have I have had so many chapters uh between then and now in 36 years of living in life and dealing with wounds and everything else and you know, all that kind of stuff and dealing with ministry.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to, you have to trust in the Lord and He has to be able to mold you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have to always be that that uh clay on the potter's wheel.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, if we're not always being molded into something, we're we're we've got to surrender our own will again, it seems like to me.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, and just a closing thought as we close out this episode is continually looking for ways to grow spiritually, emotionally, and mentally into the best version of yourself.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think Joe would agree with me when I say it starts with getting in prayer with the Holy Spirit and asking, here I am, all the mess of me, show me what my next step should be.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, God's been so faithful.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Even this morning, the spirit was so amazing leading me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh, I didn't even think about that, Lord.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so something I'm gonna be working on for myself.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Any closing thoughts, Jill?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, uh, we'd love to know if you uh read one of these, throw if you're uh following us on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, just throw it out there and let us know which book you've liked, or maybe you're reading a book uh that we should know about and we we need to read.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we'd love to know all of that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all learn from each other.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Jill and I have never said we figured it out, so here we are to share with you.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're just showing you what trying to share the little bit we've learned and say, here we are, let's do this together.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because we wish when we were starting out, people would have been there saying, hey, this is kind of what it looks like.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining this episode of Beside Every Calling.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you'll join us again.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if today there was a book um that you're like, oh, I gotta get that, please again look in the show notes.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I will try to list every book Jill and I mentioned.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I will try.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if not, please email us.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: That will be in there or message us.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like Jill said, reach out to us on social media if you have a book you want to share that has rocked your world so that others can learn from that too.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sounds great.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you next time on Beside Every Calling.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation felt a little too familiar, like, were they sitting in my living room this week familiar?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's your sign.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Text this episode to one ministry spouse who might need it today.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if this space feels like oxygen in your season, would you please take 30 seconds and leave us a review?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It helps more spouses find this beautiful, sometimes overlooked, but wildly important community.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time on Beside Every Calling.