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The impact of realistic estrangement on child custody matters · Family Law Talk

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Family Law Talk. Familylaw Talk presented by Kirk
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  Stangy of Stangy Law Firm DC. Stangy Law Firm is
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  a multi state.
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  Speaker 2: Family law firm.
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  Speaker 1: Now here's your host, Kirk Stangy.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to Family Law Talk. We have an interesting topic today.
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  The topic is the impact of realistic estrangement on show
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  custody matters and this episode today is based on an
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  article on our blog Familawheadquarters dot com dated August eighteenth,
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  twenty twenty four, and the title of that article is
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  what is realistic Estrangement? So as a follow up to
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  the episode today, go on over to familawheadquarters dot com
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  and read the article on a similar topic, which will
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  give you a lot more information. But let's go ahead
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  and jump on in. Most individuals have heard of the
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  concept of printal alienation, so most individuals generally familiar with
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  what this means. And for those of you that don't
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  know what it means, what we're talking about here is
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  a situation where one parent is essentially on a campaign
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  to demean or to fame the other parent to the kids.
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  So this can be a very bad situation. It's very unfortunate,
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  but In these cases, the parent who's being defamed or demeaned,
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  I mean, generally they're an acceptable parent, they're a fit parent,
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  they care about their kids, but based on the continued
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  efforts of the other parent, their relationship with the kids
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  ends up being harmed. And so this can happen all
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  kinds of different ways. But I mean, in terms of
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  a campaign, we're talking about the parents just making repeated
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  comments about the other parent that paint them at a
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  bad lte. Oftentimes they're telling the kids things that are untrue,
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  talking with the kids inappropriately about the case itself, if
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  there's pending litigation, maybe showing court pleadings to the kids,
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  or telling the kids things the kids shouldn't really know. Okay,
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  So then over time, the kids don't want to be
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  with the parent who's been demeaned or defamed. And it's
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  not because they're a bad parent. It's just because the
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  other parents been in their ear, been saying bad things
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  of them over and over and over again over a
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  continuous period of time. And one of the key words
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  that again I want to just stress is they're on
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  a campaign. Okay, some parents fall short, some parents make
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  some mistakes, maybe say some things they shouldn't say, but
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  to be somebody who's alienating the kids. We're talking about
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  the parent being on a campaign. It's a continuous thing
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  where they are demeaning and defaming the other parent. Okay,
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  let's contrast that though with realistic estrangement. Oftentimes, when the
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  kids don't want to see a parent, the courts or
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  maybe a guardian that light them, maybe the attorney's on
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  the case, maybe they will assume that this is a
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  case of printal alienation when it's not. And so the
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  opposite of prontal alienation is what is called realistic estrangement.
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  All right, So this is the opposite of rental alienation
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  in when it exists. The similarity is that the kids
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  don't want to see that parent as well. So, just
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  like a situation of alienation, the kids don't want to
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  see the parent who's been demeaned or defamed. Whether there's
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  realistic is strange, but the kids don't want to see
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  a particular parent. But the big difference here is it's
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  not because the other parent was demeaning or defaming the
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  other parent to the kids. Instead, the issue is that
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  the one parent's behavior is so outrageous over time around
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  the kids that the kids don't want to be around
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  that parent, but their reasons are justified, all right, So
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  we're typically talking about situations where the parent's been physically
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  abusive to the kids. Maybe they've been emotionally abusive to
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  the kids, and they've been this way for so long,
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  over such a period of time. The kids don't want
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  to be around that parent, But it makes sense why
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  they wouldn't want to be around them. It's not a
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  situation where they're alienated from a parent who's acceptable. They
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  don't want to be around a parent who, at the
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  end of the day, is not acceptable at least in
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  their current interactions with the kids. Okay, So realistic estrangement
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  the exact opposite of print alienation and the reality of
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  the situation is is that when kids don't want to
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  see a parent in a divorce or custody case, right,
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  they refuse to go. You know, maybe they don't jump
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  in the car at they exchange to go with the
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  other parent, or maybe they refuse to go they run
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  off so they're not there at the time of an exchange,
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  or maybe they go to the parent's house and then
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  they want it to part and maybe if they're old
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  enough to drive, they jump in a car and drive
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  to the other parent's house. Right. The issue is in
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  these kinds of situations sometimes it's hard to know is
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  this a case of printal alienation or is this a
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  case of realistic estrangement, And courts can be very confused
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  when looking at these cases out of the gates and
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  so to figure it out, there's really a couple of
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  different ways courts can often go about trying to figure
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  this out. Obviously, way one would be to have a
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  guardian at light I'm appointed who's an attorney who represents
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  the kids, and they do an investigation. So they talk
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  to the parents, they talk to the kids, they talk
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  to other third party witnesses could be doctors, school teachers, neighbors, friends,
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  family members, you name it, and they try to decipher, Okay,
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  the kids don't want to see mom or they don't
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  want to see dad. But what's the reason. Is it
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  that the one parent is poisoning the well with the
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  kids or is it a situation where that's not taking
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  place at all, but the one parent is just doing
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  things that estrains the kids from them, right, typically physical
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  or emotional abuse. So that would be way one. In
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  some cases, as psychologist has to be appointed in a
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  custom evaluation takes place, so more thorough analysis in these situations.
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  As psychologist oftentimes has the parents engage in psychological testing,
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  maybe does the same with the kids again, interviews the parties,
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  interviews the kids, interviews third party witnesses. But it has
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  this component of psychology in addition to it. Right where
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  there's psychological testing and look, in a lot of cases
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  this is needed to really decipher whether or not it's
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  print alienation or whether or not it's realistic estrangement. It
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  could be very confusing out of the gates for a
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  lot of courts. Okay, and so then the next question
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  that often comes up is what to do when there's
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  realistic estrangement. So let's assume it's realistic estrangement and it's
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  not print aalienation. What are courts to do in these situations? Now, Look,
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  obviously every case is different. The facts of the case
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  call for different resolutions. Some judges may view this differently
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  than other judges as well. Some guardian at items can
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  be in the same boat where they have their own
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  perspective on this, but in a general sense, typically at
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  least from what I've seen where there's estrangement, parenting classes
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  might be needed. So the parent who's engaging in behavior
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  that's physically or emotionally abusive, they oftentimes have to take
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  parenting classes in order to better their parenting skills. Okay.
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  Oftentimes maybe they need to go to a counselor. You'll
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  get some counseling. Could be a situation where maybe they
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  need to take anger management training, you know, something like that.
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  The problem though, is is this really requires a parent
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  who takes ownership for their behavior. In other words, they
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  concede that it's inappropriate and they work hard. And parenting
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  classes are counseling to be better parents. Okay, so that
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  would be you know, one potential solution. Obviously, work with
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  the parent who's falling short, try to rehabilitate them and
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  make them a better parent. Obviously, the other piece that
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  comes into play with this is the kids. Oftentimes they
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  counseling too, if they've been subjected to physical or emotional
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  abuse from an abusive parent. Oftentimes they have suffered emotionally
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  and physically, and they need to work with a counselor
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  and get themselves in a place where they want to
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  see that parent again and spend regular time with that
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  parent again. Okay. Sometimes this works, Sadly, in some circumstances
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  it doesn't. It could be a situation where the one
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  parent is just not improving, and it could be a
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  situation on the flip end where the kids aren't willing
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  to forgive. Okay. The hope is that all of that
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  can take place where there's realistic as changement. The one
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  parent becomes a better parent, the kids get counseling and
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  they want to see that parent, and there's some sort
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  of reunification. But it's not always the case, okay. And
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  so in these circumstances, courts could be put in really
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  challenging places, and you know, in some cases, courts you know,
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  might want the kids to see that parent, and they
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  might order it. The dilemma is if the kids really
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  truly don't want to go, you know, sometimes they can
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  and engage in behavior which is problematic, like they could
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  run away, maybe they engage in self harm, maybe they
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  begin engaging in substance abuse because there's soul just straught
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  or upset about being in an environment that's not conducive
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  to their upbringing. Okay, And there could be other problems
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  as well. So it's real tricky in terms of whether
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  or not the kids can be forced to go or
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  whether or not you know, that's a bad idea, and
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  ultimately the kids, you know, you know, maybe shouldn't be
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  over there. You know. One of the things that can
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  often take place in cases of realistic estrangement as well
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  is supervised visitation. And you know, it could be the
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  supervised visitation is temporary, so the kids see that parent
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  with a supervisor there to ensure the visits are productive
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  and healthy and that there's no further abuse. And then
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  is the visits get better and better and better and
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  the relationship it's more and more repaired than maybe the
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  visits are no longer supervised. In some cases, a parent's
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  visitation might be supervised indefinitely or may be supervised permanently. Now,
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  one of the questions individuals I ask, is well, who
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  supervises And look, that's going to vary based on the jurisdiction.
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  You know, there can be in some courts the ability
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  to have various personnel that work for the courts to
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  supervise the visits. There are also individuals who work as
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  private supervisors out there. Oftentimes these are individuals who are
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  social workers or counselors, or you know, people who maybe
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  worked for protective services or family services in the past,
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  and they do supervised visits. Okay, So that could be
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  the situation in certain circumstances too. It could be that
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  a friend or family member is appointed as a supervisor,
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  so a little bit less restrictive, but still supervised by
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  somebody to make sure that the visits are supervised. Okay.
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  So I wanted to cover this topic about what realistic
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  estrangement is. It's widely unknown. It's sort of remarkable. Like
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  I say, most individuals are very familiar with the concept
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  of printal alienation, but they're just in the dark. Is
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  to the opposite scenario of realistic estrangement, and it's you know,
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  a real quandary in some cases out of the gates
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  to figure out which it is. Of course, you know
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  parents who are engaging in abusive behavior, whether it's physical
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  or emotional, and let's say the kids don't want to
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  see them. Almost should say always, but oftentimes they will
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  accuse the other parent of alienating and say it's the
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  other parent's fault that the kids don't want to see me,
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  when in fact, it's actually their fault. There is no alienation.
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  They're just not able to see what they're doing and
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  maybe they don't have good parenting skills in order to
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  ensure they have a good, healthy and productive relationship with
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  the kids. All right, So look, that's the topic today again.
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  Going over to Familylawheadquarters dot com, read the article dated
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  August eighteenth, twenty twenty four. Title of that article is
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  what is realistic estrangement? It'll get you more information on
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  this topic. Thanks for tuning in today, Stay tuned our
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  next episode of Family Law Talk coming up. Thank you
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  very much.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Family Law Talk with Kirk Stangy.
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  Visit Stangy Lawfirm dot com for more about today's topic
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