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The Untold Story of Serial Killer Glenn Rogers · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Imagine you just, you know, you walk into your family's quiet,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: remote Kentucky cabin.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Right. And just looking for a little peace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Exactly. A place to clear your head. So you step
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: into the back room and it's dusty, totally untouched.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: And you start moving some furniture around just to make
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a place to sit. And you reach down to pull
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: this heavy blue blanket out of the way.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Which is when everything changes.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When you pull it back, a human arm just
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: falls out onto the floor. Oh, yeah. You realize with
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: this cold rush of adrenaline that the body of a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: 71-year-old man is just lying there.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Right. And then you look up at the wall. There
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: is a message written there, essentially telling you to run.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And the signature.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, the signature. It is signed with a perfect imprint
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: of your dead father's favorite shot glass.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is just chilling.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: So what do you do when you realize in that
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: exact second that your own brother is a serial killer.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: It is the ultimate collision, right, of blood loyalty and
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: just basic human morality.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're suddenly forced to choose between the person you
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: grew up protecting and, well, the safety of the rest
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of the world.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So today we have an incredibly gripping and just really dark,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: deep dive for you. We do. We're examining the transcript
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: of a documentary titled The Untold Story of Serial Killer
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Glenn Rogers. my brother, the serial killer.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Which is such a unique source.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It really is. But I want to lay out our
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: mission clearly from the very beginning here. We are not
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: just going to recount a true crime timeline for like
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the shock value.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: No, definitely not.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Our mission today is to unpack the psychological anatomy of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: a serial killer. We are going to trace the specific
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: measurable ways that, you know, systemic institutional failures combined with
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: just profound familial trauma created this deadly escalation.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And we have to look at that escalation carefully.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Right. And we are going to examine a shocking, highly
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: controversial claim that attempts to tie this specific killer to
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: one of the most infamous, globally recognized crimes of the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: 20th century. Yeah.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: The Brentwood Connection. It's wild. But what elevates this source
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: material far beyond standard true crime is the perspective.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: The narrator, right?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Right. The narrator of this documentary isn't, you know, a
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: retired detective or journalist parsing through cold case files years later.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It's someone who was actually there.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Exactly. We are hearing directly from Clay Rogers. He is
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: the middle child of seven in the Rogers family, and
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: he provides this unflinching, really intimate and often just agonizing
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: look at his younger brother, Glenn.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this, because it is incredibly rare to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: get a firsthand, family-level view of a killer's origin story
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It really is. Most families in this situation either deny
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: everything to their dying day, or they just completely retreat
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: from the public eye.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they hide. But Clay puts it all out there.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: He does. I mean, he wasn't just a bystander. He
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was Glenn's literal partner in crime growing up. But, you know,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: to understand the monster Glenn became... we first have to
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: understand the truly terrifying world he was born into.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. To understand the pathology, you really have to examine
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: the incubator.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And the Rogers family home in Hamilton, Ohio, was an
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: incubator of just pure chaos.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Utter chaos.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: You have two parents operating at complete, volatile opposite ends
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: of the spectrum here.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the dad first.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Right. The father, Claude, he hailed from Lee County, Kentucky.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: He was a hard-drinking, incredibly violent moonshiner.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: The source transcript describes him as a man who played
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: with guns the way other people play with pocket change.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: That analogy is so telling.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: It's terrifying. He had moonshine stills and bottles hidden all
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: over the property.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And then on the flip side, you have the mother, Edna.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Right, Edna. She was a strict, full gospel Pentecostal.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: The rules she lived by were just incredibly rigid. The
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: source notes she couldn't wear pants or shorts.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Long skirts only. Exactly.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Long skirts only. Absolutely no makeup. She went to church
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: three or four times a week and used to sing
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: religious songs on the local radio.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But Claude decided very early in their marriage that her
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: religious devotion was just over.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wouldn't tolerate it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: He beat her terribly. The kids learned early on that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: survival meant becoming invisible.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: You had to disappear. Right.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: They would hide upstairs, literally holding their breath, trying to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: be completely silent, just so Claude wouldn't notice them and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: trigger another violent rampage.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And if you look at the neurological environment these children
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: are developing in, it's devastating.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: How so? Like physically?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, physically in the brain. When a child grows up
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: in a house where the primary sound is screaming or gunfire,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: their brain's alarm system, the amygdala, gets stuck in a
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: state of permanent hyperarousal. Oh, wow.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So they're just always on edge.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They are bathed in cortisol constantly. Peace actually feels
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: unnatural to them. Violence becomes the expected baseline.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: And it's into this bursting violent pressure cooker that Glenn
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: is born, right? Under circumstances that are honestly a tragedy
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: of the era's medical paternalism.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: The situation with Edna is heartbreaking.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: It really is. Edna didn't even want more children. After
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: giving birth to five kids, she and Claude actually went
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: before a judge to ask for legal permission for Edna
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: to have her tubes tied.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Because in that era, a woman often had to ask
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: a male judge for bodily autonomy.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Which is just wild to think about now. And the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: judge refused.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: He refused.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: He looked at this impoverished, abused woman and told her, no,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: your life's not in danger.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So she was forced to remain fertile.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Right. And she gets pregnant with Glenn.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: And the timing of his birth acted as a catalyst
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: for just complete family collapse.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Because of Claude's job, right? Yeah.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Right as Glenn arrives, Claude loses his job due to
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: his severe chronic alcoholism. So the family is instantly plunged
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: into extreme suffocating poverty.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: They were forced to rent a house under the guise
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: of only having four children, simply because the landlord wouldn't
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: have accepted a family of nine.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Seven kids in that tiny space.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: The deprivation the kids faced was just absolute. I mean,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Clay remembers a period of three entire years where they
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: ate nothing but government-issued oatmeal.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Three years.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Day after day, just oatmeal.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And nutrient deprivation in a developing child, it actually compounds
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the emotional trauma. Really?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Really. Yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You have a situation where these kids are literally starving.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: They are crammed into a tiny physical space. And their
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: father is a violent alcoholic who uses the interior of
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: the house for target practice.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Claude would just shoot his gun into the walls.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Clay even recalls Claude putting a loaded gun directly to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: their mother's head.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: So just to survive, the kids start sneaking out of
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the house to steal food.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And this is where the psychological rewiring regarding authority and
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: consequence begins to solidify.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: This part is so fascinating to me.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: When the kids snuck out to steal, inevitably they would
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: get caught by the local police. But the police response
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: completely inverted the children's understanding of right and wrong.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Because they were just hungry kids.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Right. The officers would take these starving, freezing kids back
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: to a warm station. They'd give them soda pop, potato chips,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: and a safe cot to sleep on for the night.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Wait, so if we think about this from the perspective
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: of an abused kid, getting arrested wasn't a punishment.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: It was a rescue mission.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: It was a sanctuary. I mean, for the vast majority
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: of society, a police officer represents consequence. They represent the
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: boundary of acceptable behavior. Right.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You break a rule, you get in trouble.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: But for the Rogers kids, the police represented safety, warmth,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and provision. This dynamic completely warped their moral compass because
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: it removed the fundamental deterrent for committing a crime.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Because the penalty was actually a reward.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly. If the penalty for burglary is getting a warm
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: meal in a bed far away from a father firing
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: a gun in the living room, breaking the law becomes
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the most logical, rational choice a child can make.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: If the police station feels like a haven and your
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: own living room feels like a war zone, breaking the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: law is just a survival mechanism at that point.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Precisely. And there is another layer of psychological complexity here
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: that the source expert points out regarding Edna.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: The mother.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, the mother. It's a phenomenon often seen in highly
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: dysfunctional families. You would assume that all the children's rage
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: would be directed at Claude, you know, the primary abuser.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Right, because he's the one shooting the gun and beating them.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: But in dysfunctional homes, the children's deepest, most visceral hostility
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: is often misdirected at the person who was supposed to
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: protect them but failed to do so.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: The mother.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: The mother. The mother becomes the target of resentment because
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: the child expects the mother to save them. And when
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: she doesn't, because she is a victim herself, the child
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: views it as a profound betrayal.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: This specific maternal resentment will become the lethal blueprint for
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Glenn's later crimes.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: That makes so much sense when you look at his
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: victimology later. But we see Glenn's complete detachment from typical
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: fear very early on, right?
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Clay talks about taking Glenn on his first burglary when
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Glenn was only about eight years old. They targeted a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: place they called the Blue House on the Corner.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Clay was 11 at the time? Yeah.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And he specifically used Glenn because Glenn was smaller, he
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: could fit through tight spaces, and if caught, you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: he'd face lesser juvenile penalties.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Which is pretty calculated for an 11-year-old.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Seriously. They almost got caught that night and actually had
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: to jump off a roof in the dark to escape.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And that event highlights Clay acting as a calculated, albeit juvenile, criminal.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: He understands risk. He understands the justice system's age tiers.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Right. He knows the rules of the game.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: But contrast that with what Glenn does just a few
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: days later.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: The daytime robbery.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: They're hanging out at a local park and eight-year-old Glenn
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: just calmly tells Clay, I'll be right back.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Just super casual.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: In broad daylight. while a woman is in her yard
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: hanging up her laundry, Glenn walks right through her front door.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: He navigates her house, steals her money, walks casually out
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: the front door, and goes back to the park. Clay
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: admits that was the exact moment he realized his little
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: brother was willing to take risks that Absolutely terrified him.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: That daytime robbery isn't just a red flag. It's a
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: preview of his complete detachment from consequence.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Because he had no fear of getting caught.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Right. An eight-year-old operating with the brazen boldness of a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: seasoned criminal, completely lacking that self-preservation instinct that stops most
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: people from committing crimes in broad daylight.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Right. Most people wait for the cover of darkness. Exactly.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: And when that lack of consequence collided with Ohio's juvenile
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: justice system, it didn't rehabilitate him. It weaponized him.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Let's follow that collision because the boys escalate their survival
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: stealing to an industrial scale. The source notes they were
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: caught for 100 burglaries in the span of just 90 days.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: A hundred burglaries. That level of prolific offending forces the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: hand of the legal system.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they couldn't just give them a warm cotton soda anymore.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Right. The judge brands Clay the ringleader. sends him to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: reform school, and eventually Clay gets out and is shipped
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: off to the Army at age 17.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: But Glenn, being younger, gets trapped in Ohio's juvenile prison system.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: He's sent to a specific reform school called Tyco.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And Tyco was not a place of rehabilitation.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Not at all.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: It was an institution of profound horrors. The source reveals
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: that during his time there, Glenn was sexually molested by
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: the guards.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: That is just horrific.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And Clay notes that there was actual physical evidence of
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: this predation. Clay saw a note that a guard had
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: slipped into Glenn's mail and sent back to his cell.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: The note, yeah.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: The note read, get back to your cell. Get it up.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I'll be there in a minute. Nobody cares for you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: on the outside. Nobody cares about you on the inside.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we analyze the psychological devastation of that note,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it is the systemic reinforcement of total worthlessness.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: It's the ultimate betrayal.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Glenn is a child who has been starved, beaten, and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: essentially abandoned by his parents. The state steps in, ostensibly to,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you know, reform him, and instead the authority figures prey
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: on him.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: They weaponize his profound isolation. By telling him, nobody cares
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: about you on the outside, the guard is severing Glenn's
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: last tether to humanity.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Taking away any hope he had left.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. This institutional betrayal trauma shatters any fragile foundation of
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: trust Glenn might have had in society or authority.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: When Glenn eventually gets out of Tycho, he is profoundly,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: irreparably damaged. Yet he still attempts to construct a facade
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of a normal life.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: He really tries, in his own twisted way.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: He tracks down a girl he used to know, Debbie.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: She was stuck in a hospital because she had just
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: given birth to a baby and had no physical address
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to be discharged to.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So Glenn goes to the hospital.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he claims them and brings Debbie and a baby
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that isn't even his back to a home. He legally
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: adopts the child.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: He is desperately trying to play house. He wants the
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: optics of the American dream to prove to the world
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and to himself, honestly, that he isn't the worthless piece
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: of garbage the guards at Tyco told him he was.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: He marries Debbie in 1980. They have a second baby together,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: but the trauma he carries makes sustaining a healthy relationship
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: completely impossible.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: His behavior toward Debbie is insanely jealous and violently controlling.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: If she varied even slightly from whatever rigid plan he
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: had dictated for the day, He beat her.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And we aren't talking about a slap.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: No. He beat her so severely he put her in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the hospital.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Clay notes the tragic warped logic here. Glenn watched his
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: mother stay with his abusive father for over 50 years,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: despite the brutal beatings.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So in Glenn's fractured mind, inflicting extreme violence on a
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: woman was simply the established mechanism for ensuring she wouldn't
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: leave him.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It's just so dark. He's Perfectly replicating the cycle of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: violence he witnessed in his childhood.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: But now it is amplified by the sexual and institutional
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: abuse he suffered at the hands of the state.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And as he moves further into adulthood, his relationship with
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the criminal justice system evolves into something deeply manipulative and symbiotic.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. Because Glenn is an adult. He's
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: using drugs. And he's constantly getting arrested for low-level crimes.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: But he discovers a loophole in the justice system.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: A massive loophole.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: He approaches the local narcotics unit. and offers to work
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: as an undercover informant.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: This is where we see the system actively arming a predator.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Glenn was charismatic when he needed to be. He was
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: a smooth talker who knew the local drug dealers inside
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and out. Law enforcement saw an asset.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And a highly productive one at that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Right. In one specific instance detailed in the source, 21
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: people were indicted on drug charges in a single night
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: entirely based on Glenn's undercover work.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: 21 people.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And his reward? Every single charge pending against Glenn was
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: quietly dropped.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: He realized he had a get-out-of-jail-free card. Every time the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: patrol cops picked him up for doing dirt on the street,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the narcotics detectives would intervene and let him go because
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: his intel was just too valuable.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: He was untouchable.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Clay explicitly states that Glenn started to believe he could
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: get away with absolutely anything, including murder.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And the police let him believe it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: To give you an idea of how much cover he had,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: at one point, his sister was about to be evicted.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Glenn grabbed a butcher knife, committed an armed robbery at
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a local gas station, and brought his sister the cash
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to save her house.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: An armed robbery. Right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: The police had a sketch of him. They knew his
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: exact modus operandi. But nothing happened to him.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: We have to analyze this like a corporate hacker beta
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: testing a security system.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I like that analogy.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Glenn was using the police force as his personal testing environment.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Every time they arrested him and then dropped the charges
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: for drug intel, they were essentially bug testing his ability
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: to evade the law.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Showing him where the holes were.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They were showing him exactly where their jurisdictional blind
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: spots were, how different departments failed to communicate with each other,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and what kind of leverage forced prosecutors to look the
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: other way. When Glenn was powerless as a child, authorities
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: abused him. Now as an adult holding the information they needed,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: he held the power. The police inadvertently provided him with
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: a master class in criminal evasion.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But looking at the reality of the 1980s drug war,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: You know, police had to use street-level informants to climb
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the ladder and catch the cartel guys. I mean, I
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: understand the pragmatic reality, why they made those deals.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: The war on drugs was intense, absolutely.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Right. But at what point does dropping a few drug
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: charges transition into actively shielding a highly violent, knife-wielding predator?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And that is the crucial ethical failure of the system.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: The mandate to clear drug cases blinded them to the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: escalating violent pathology of their informant.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: They traded public safety for narcotic statistics.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, and in doing so, they validated Glenn's terrifying delusion
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: of invincibility.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So you have a man who feels untouchable, armed with
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: a deep understanding of police procedure, and carrying a lifetime
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: of unimaginable untreated trauma.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: A deadly combination.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: This cocktail of invincibility and pain completely fractures his psyche,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: leading to a profound obsession with the supernatural.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: The human mind cannot hold that much unaddressed trauma without
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: finding a release valve.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: It has to go somewhere.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: It does. For Glenn and Clay, who grew up without
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: formal religious instruction, but in a geographic area heavily steeped
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: in Appalachian folklore and superstition, the supernatural became the framework
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: they used to process their reality.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Clay talks about how they played with tarot cards as kids,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and the readings were always dark.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pulling the worst cards.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: They kept pulling the Tower of Destruction and the Death card.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: But more profoundly... They witnessed an incredibly eerie ancient ritual
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: known as the Sin Eaters.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: The Sin Eater is a fascinating and profoundly dark piece
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: of folklore.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Can you explain it? Because it's so strange.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Sure. The ritual involves a designated person in the community
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: who is brought in when someone dies. They literally place
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: bread or food onto the chest of the fresh corpse.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: And the Sin Eater consumes that food.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: They eat it right off the body. Yes.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: The belief is that by eating the food, the sin
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: eater is physically absorbing the sins, the miasma, and the
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: evil of the deceased, allowing the dead person's soul to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: enter heaven clean.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Why would that appeal so much to a traumatized kid?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Because a child who has been horrifically abused often internalizes
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: that abuse as proof that they are inherently bad or evil.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: They blame themselves.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: They carry an immense crushing guilt. Watching a ritual where
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: sin and evil can be physically transferred from one body
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: to another provides a psychological blueprint for externalizing their own darkness.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, that makes sense.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: It tells them that evil is an entity that can
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: be moved, absorbed, or expelled.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And we see that belief manifest in a terrifying moment
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: when the brothers are in their 20s. They are hanging
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: out in Wayne Park, they've been drinking, and they meet
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: a heavily tattooed man who teaches them a chant to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: call up a demon.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Which is never a good idea.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: No. Clay says they started chanting together, the rhythm getting
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: faster and faster, completely uncontrolled. Suddenly, Clay physically feels something
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: enter him.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: A somatic hallucination.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: He describes it vividly as insect-like tentacle claws crawling into
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: his mouth, scraping down his throat, and settling inside him.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: From a clinical perspective, what Clay is likely describing is
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: a severe dissociative or psychotic episode triggered by extreme stress,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: substance abuse, and untreated childhood trauma.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: His brain just snapped for a second.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: The brain simply fractures under the pressure, creating a somatic,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: physical hallucination. But what is truly vital to our understanding
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of a serial killer is how Glenn reacts to this
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: same event. Right.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Clay is terrified, and he asks Glenn if he felt
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: the claws in his throat, too. Glenn's response is absolutely chilling.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Glenn calmly says he wasn't worried about the new demon
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: trying to get in, because he figured the demon that
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: was already inside him would take care of it.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: By naming his trauma and his violent urges a demon,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Glenn achieves profound psychological absolution.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: It's not his fault anymore.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It allows for complete compartmentalization. If a demon is
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: inside him pulling the strings, then Glenn isn't the one
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: beating his wife or robbing gas stations. The demon is.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: This externalization completely removes all personal accountability and clears the
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: psychological runway for extreme lethal violence.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And the violence begins to escalate at a terrifying pace.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Glenn and Clay go on a road trip, essentially operating
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: as nomadic conmen and burglars.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Just drifting.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're crashing in a trailer owned by a woman
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Glenn is casually dating, a woman who keeps a lot
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: of pet birds. Glenn starts complaining about her to Clay.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: He calmly walks into the kitchen, rummages around, and comes
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: back holding a massive knife.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: And says what?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: He looks dead at his brother and says, I'm going
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to stick her.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Clay manages to talk him down in that moment, and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: they pack up and leave the trailer. But listen to
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the dialogue in the car as they drive away.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, this part is crazy.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Glenn casually remarks, I should have went ahead and killed her.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I've done about 50 so far.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: 50.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Clay actually laughs it off, assuming Glenn is just throwing
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: an exaggerated temper tantrum to sound tough.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't a tantrum. Because later on that exact
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: same road trip, they stop at a motel in Valdosta, Georgia.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Glenn leaves the room in the middle of the night
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: while Clay is sleeping. He returns just before dawn, covered
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: in blood. His clothes ripped and torn, carrying a pile
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of stolen jewelry and burglary tools.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: It's a massive escalation.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Clay tells him to get into the bathroom and wash
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: the blood off so they can run before the police arrive.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: The power dynamic between the brothers is shifting dramatically. Glenn
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: is crossing lines of violence that terrify Clay.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And this escalation reaches a horrifying crescendo when Glenn begins
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: treating his own brother like a morbid storage facility for
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: his crimes.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. I mean, Clay is trying to go straight
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: at this point. He's working at a local donut shop
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: trying to hold down a normal job.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Trying to be a regular guy. Right.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Glenn drives up to the shop. tells Clay to come outside,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: pops the trunk of his car, and reveals a dead
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: woman's body stuffed inside.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Just casually showing his brother a corpse.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: On another occasion, Glenn contacts Clay, says he has a
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: body stuffed into a heavy duffel bag, and asks Clay
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to help him carry it and dispose of it, because
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: it's too heavy to move alone.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And Clay refuses.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: He refuses, but the psychological toll of knowing your own
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: flesh and blood is actively hunting and killing people is
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: mounting exponentially.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Which brings us back to that breaking point in the
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Kentucky cabin in late 1993.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: The blue blanket. Yes.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: When Clay pulls back that blue blanket and finds the
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: body of Mark Peters, a 71-year-old friend of their mother's
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: who had kindly allowed Glenn to stay with him, it
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: shatters Clay's denial.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: He can't ignore it anymore.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: But what is highly significant is the message Glenn left.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: The shit is going to hit the fan. Get out
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of here. Signed with the perfect imprint of their violent
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: father's shot glass.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: The audacity of using the father's shot glass operates as
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: a psychological signature.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Like a calling card. Exactly.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It's a nod to the genesis of their shared trauma.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: By leaving that specific imprint, Glenn is claiming the space,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: claiming the violence, and explicitly linking his current homicidal acts
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: back to the foundational violence of Claude Rogers.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Clay waits 12 days before calling the police.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: 12 days is a long time to sit with that.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: 12 agonizing days of Pure internal war. Imagine pacing the
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: floor knowing you have to send your brother to a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: death sentence. He even contemplated driving to the cabin and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: moving the body himself just to protect Glenn.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: The psychological friction of that decision is immense. And what
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: ultimately gives Clay the strength to cross that line and
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: turn his brother in is intensely visual and symbolic.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, the tattoos.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: It ties back to physical pain and permanent reminders.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Tell us about the tattoos because this completely fascinated me.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Clay had previously been involved in a highly violent altercation
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: where he nearly beat a man to death. Recognizing the
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: terrifying depth of his own rage, the same rage that
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: consumed his father and his brother, Clay sought out a permanent,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: painful mechanism to bind himself to morality.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: He needed a physical reminder.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Right. He got a 13-inch dragon tattooed on his right
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: arm to represent the serpent, the devil, and evil. On
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: his left arm, he got a tattoo of a tear
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: depicted as a ball of fire with a demon emerging
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: from it.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: These weren't just decorative. They served as a permanent visual anchor.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Every time he looked at his arms, he was reminded
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of what happens when the demon of their childhood trauma
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: takes over.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: So he looked at his arms and made the choice.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: He looked at those tattoos, realized he refused to walk
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: down the same road of death as his brother, and
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: he finally picked up the phone and called Detective Tom Kilgore.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Clay leads the police to the cabin. They recover Mark
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Peter's body. Clay has officially crossed the line from protector
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to informant.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: The hardest thing he ever had to do.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: But by the time Clay goes to the police in
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: early 1994, the bird has flown. Glenn is long gone.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: He has fled across the country to California.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And this is where it gets crazy.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where the timeline of Glenn Rogers intersects
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: with one of the most heavily scrutinized, relentlessly analyzed crimes
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: in American history.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: We must navigate this section with absolute impartiality.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: We are analyzing the specific claims presented in the documentary
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: source material, looking at how the evidence they present fits
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: into the established public narrative of the time. Right.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Because if you're listening to this, you're probably rolling your
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: eyes right now. I mean, a guy on death row
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: claiming he committed the crime of the century.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: It sounds like a classic jailhouse lie.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: It sounds like an obvious, desperate grab for infamy by
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: a narcissist with nothing to lose. But... The source lays
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: out specific forensic and circumstantial details that genuinely make you pause.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Let's lay it out.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the timeline. In 1994, Glenn is living
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, working as a house painter. He takes
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a trip back to Ohio to visit his family, and
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: he tells them about a beautiful woman he met in California.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: A client.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Right. He says he was doing painting work at her house.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: They struck up a conversation, went out for drinks, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: he specifically notes to his family that she looks remarkably
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: like his own daughter.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And then he drops the details.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he says she is married to a famous football player.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Later on, Glenn is on the phone with his family again,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: and he asks them, guess who I'm partying with? He
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: reveals it is Nicole Brown Simpson.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: But crucially, his tone shifts.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, he tells his brother, they got money, they're well off,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: and I'm taking her down.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I'm taking her down. Shortly after that phone call, the
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman are discovered
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: brutally murdered in Brentwood.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: The trial of the century begins.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: The world is captivated by the slow-speed white bronco chase,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the trial, and the ultimate acquittal of O.J. Simpson in
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: criminal court. It isn't until years later, while sitting on
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: death row, that Glenn Rogers reveals a shocking alternative narrative
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: to a criminal profiler named Anthony Maioli.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Through extensive written correspondence, and notably through detailed paintings Glenn
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: creates in his prison cell, he lays out a timeline
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: that places him squarely at the scene of the Brentwood murders.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: The claim is a total bombshell. Glenn alleges that O.J.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Simpson hired him to break into Nicole's condo for a
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: specific purpose, to steal back a pair of diamond earrings
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: worth $ 20, 000.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: According to Glenn, O.J. provided him with a spare key
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that was hidden in the back of the condo and
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: gave him explicit lethal instructions.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Right, saying, you may have to kill the bitch.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Glenn's account of the mechanical execution of the murders is
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: incredibly specific. He claims he drove to Brentwood in his
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: work vehicle, a white Ford pickup truck, and parked it
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: on a side street near the condo.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Waiting in the dark.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: His plan was to quietly use the spare key, enter
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the home, and commit the murder inside where it would
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: be contained. He says he was crouching down in the
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: shadows by the front gate, preparing to move.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: But then, an unexpected variable destroys the plan. Ronald Goldman
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: walks through the front gate to return a pair of sunglasses.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: According to Glenn, Goldman's arrival forced immediate action. Glenn claims
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: he sprang from his hiding spot in the dark, struck
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Goldman with a large knife, incapacitated him quickly, and threw
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: him against a nearby tree.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: And then Nicole comes out.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: He says Nicole heard the commotion and entered the fray.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Glenn claims he stabbed her once and she fainted from
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: the shock and the wound.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Leaving him with Goldman.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: He then turned his full attention back to Goldman, who,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: according to forensic evidence, fought back fiercely. After finishing the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: brutal fight with Goldman, Glenn claims he returned to the
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: unconscious Nicole, pulled her hair back to expose her neck,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and delivered the massive fatal wound.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: And where does Glenn claim OJ was during this massacre?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: He alleges OJ arrived at the scene shortly after the
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: murders were completed.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So he didn't do it himself.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: He says OJ didn't want to get his hands dirty
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: with the actual killing, but he came to check on
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: his work and inspect the scene.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Now, any inmate can draft a story based on trial
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: coverage to gain notoriety. But the documentary source highlights three
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: distinct pieces of corroborating evidence that align with Glenn's alternative narrative.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Let's look at the mechanics of this evidence because it's compelling.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: First is the witness testimony regarding the vehicle. There was
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a neighbor, Tom Lang, who lived just down the street
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: from Nicole's condo. Lang testified that on the night of
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: the murders... he saw a white Ford F-350 parked across
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the street.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And Glenn, functioning as a house painter, drove a white
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Ford F-350 for his work.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Lang also testified that he saw a man standing
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: in an aggressive, angry stance right in front of Nicole's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: gate and described the man as either white, Asian, or Hispanic.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Glenn is a white man.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: The second piece of evidence relies on the forensic science
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: at the crime scene. During the criminal trial, the prosecution
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: heavily anchored their case on bloody shoe prints matching a
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: rare pair of size 12 Bruno Magli shoes, tying those
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: prints to O.J. Simpson.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: However, the defense brought in Dr. Henry Lee, one of
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: the most prominent forensic scientists in the world.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Dr. Lee analyzed the biomechanics and the blood spatter of
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the crime scene and testified that he identified a second
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: set of completely different shoe prints in the blood.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Furthermore, the blood evidence indicated two different individuals bleeding heavily
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: onto the sidewalk.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Two different people bleeding.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: This physical evidence scientifically supports the presence of a second
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: active assailant at the scene, which perfectly accommodates Glenn's narrative
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: of him committing the murders while O.J. arrived later.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And then we come to the third piece of evidence,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: which I found to be the most chilling psychological manipulation
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: in the entire story, the gold angel pin.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, this part is incredibly dark. Yes.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: It was widely known that Nicole Brown Simpson loved and
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: collected angel jewelry. At public visuals following her death, Her
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: grieving family members notably wore angel pins to honor her.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Everyone knew about the angel pins.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Years after the murders in 2010, Glenn wrote a letter
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: from prison pointing out a specific detail in a photograph
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: taken during his own murder trial in Florida.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: The trial for his other crimes.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Right. In the photo, his mother Edna is sitting in
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the front row of the courtroom wearing a black vest.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Pinned prominently to that vest is a gold angel holding
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: a diamond.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And Glenn wrote in his letter, I sent that to
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Mom the day after the situation in Brentwood. It's something
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: everyone missed.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Think about the psychological warfare of that act. Edna was
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: sitting in the courtroom unwittingly wearing the victim's jewelry to
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: her own son's murder trial.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: It is a profound, twisted manipulation of the mother he
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: simultaneously loved and deeply despised.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: He forced her to wear it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: He forced the woman he blamed for his childhood trauma
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: to wear the spoils of a brutal murder. transforming her
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: into a walking trophy case for his violence without her
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: even knowing it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So we have a timeline that matches the coroner's suggestion
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: of an interrupted attack, witness testimony of a white truck
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and a white suspect, forensic testimony from Dr. Henry Lee
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: regarding a second set of footprints, and a gold angel
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: pin mailed the day after the murders.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of coincidence.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Is this the ultimate missing puzzle piece that explains the
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: inconsistencies of the Brentwood crime scene? Or perhaps... Is this
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: just the ultimate con from a master manipulator who spent
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: a lifetime learning how to game the system?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: The veracity of his OJ claims may never be definitively proven.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: But what is an absolute, undeniable fact is that by
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the following year, 1995, Glenn Rogers was operating completely without
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: a tether.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: The demon was in control.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: The demon was entirely in control. And he embarked on
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: a horrifying cross-country spree of rapid-fire violence.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: The pace of the violence is staggering. 1995 becomes a
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: blur of bloodshed. He flees the Los Angeles area, operating
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: under a series of fake names. In September, he's in
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Van Nuys, California.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: He meets Sandra Gallagher at a bar.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: She's a 34-year-old mother who had just won $ 1, 200 on
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: a lottery ticket and was celebrating. Seeing he needed a
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: way home, she kindly offers Glenn a ride in her truck.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: That simple act of kindness is repaid with overwhelming brutality.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Sandra Gallagher is found strangled to death. and her truck
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: is set on fire with her body inside to destroy
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the evidence.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Let's look at the mechanics of strangulation. It is an
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: incredibly intimate, exhausting method of murder.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: It's very personal.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: It requires you to be up close, sustaining intense physical
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: exertion while watching the life leave the victim's eyes. It
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: denotes a massive reservoir of rage.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: He flees California, heading east to Jackson, Mississippi. It's October now.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: He goes to a state fair and meets a woman
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: named Linda Price.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: She is a redhead who has already suffered immense tragedy
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: in her life, having lost two husbands and a boyfriend.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Glenn turns on his chameleon charm. He touches her hair,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: tells her she is beautiful, praises her as the best
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: mother and grandmother he has ever met. And then he
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: uses a phrase that is the key to his entire pathology.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: The trigger phrase.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: He tells her, I wish my mother was more like you.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: That phrase, I wish my mother was more like you,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: signals that he has cast Linda in the role of
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: the maternal surrogate.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: He was drawn to women like his mom.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: He specifically charmed women who showed him the maternal affection
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: he never received, or who physically resembled his mother. But
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: casting someone in this role is a fatal trap.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Because it's impossible to live up to.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Because the moment that surrogate displays the slightest hint of rejection,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: or deviates from his rigid expectations... It triggers a homicidal
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: flashback to the profound rejection and betrayal he suffered from Edna.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: The surrogate becomes the mother and the rage is unleashed.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: We see that exact trigger flip on Halloween night. Glenn
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and Linda are at a local bar. Linda pulls her
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: sister Marilyn into the bathroom. Linda is scared and she
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: whispers to Marilyn, if something happens to me, don't let
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: him get by with it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Glenn realizes they are in the bathroom talking about him.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: The paranoia hits him hard.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: He starts violently pounding on the bathroom door in a
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: total rage, screaming at them to come out. They rush
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: out of the bar, and as they leave, Glenn looks
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: directly into Marilyn's eyes and says, you will be next.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: A direct, brazen threat to the victim's family. There's no
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: attempt to hide his intentions.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: He follows through on the violence against Linda. Police eventually
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: enter the apartment they shared. The scene they find is
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: incredibly grim. Linda is lying in the bathtub. She has
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: been stabbed repeatedly. her throat cut from ear to ear,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and significantly, a washcloth has been carefully placed over her face.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Let's break down the mechanics of his specific modus operandi here,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: because it operates simultaneously on two distinct levels, the practical
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and the psychological.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, what's the practical side?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: The practical element is the use of the bathtub. If
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: you kill someone in a bathtub and leave the shower running,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the fluid dynamics work in your favor.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Washing the evidence away.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The blood washes directly down the drain. It doesn't
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: soak into carpets, floorboards, or mattresses. This drastically delays the
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: onset of decomposition odors, which delays the discovery of the
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: body by motel maids or landlords.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Buying him time.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Buying the killer a massive 24 to 48 hour head
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: start to cross state lines.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: And what about the psychological element? Why place the washcloth
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: over Linda's face?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: The washcloth addresses the death stare.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's chilling.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Many killers who operate in close quarters with bladed weapons
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: cannot handle the accusatory, vacant gaze of the victim immediately.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Following the murder. They can't look at what they've done.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Covering the face is a psychological mechanism to depersonalize the victim.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: It allows the killer to hide from the visual reality
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: of the human life they just extinguished. It is a
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: flicker of psychological cowardice amid the extreme brutality.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Gren flees Mississippi and crosses into Louisiana. And this is
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: when he makes a phone call to his sister Sue
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: back in Ohio.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: This call is pure nightmare fuel.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Sue says his voice sounded entirely different, like he was possessed.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: He's laughing this chilling, evil laugh. And over the phone,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: she can hear a distinct smacking sound.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: It's so disturbing.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: He tells her, I'm smacking these girls on their butt.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: They're dead. And then he brags that he will never
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: turn himself in, claiming that he has killed 70. women. 7-0.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: While the number 70 is likely an exaggeration, the boast
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: itself is highly diagnostic.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: It reveals how far gone he is.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: It reveals the depth of his grandiosity. He is no
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: longer running from his crimes. He is reveling in his
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: status as a monster. He is fully inhabited by the
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: demon persona he constructed to shield himself from guilt.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: In Boise City, Louisiana, he targets Andy Sutton, another redhead.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: He stays at the apartment she shares with her roommate, Teresa.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: A few days later, Teresa comes home. Yeah.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: She notices a strange pile of blankets on her waterbed.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: She pulls the blankets back, finds a pillow placed over
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: her face, pulls the pillow back, and finds her roommate,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: brutally stabbed to death with a butcher knife. With severe
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: defensive wounds all over her hands, indicating a horrific struggle.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: He is leaving a trail of absolute carnage, moving faster
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: than the local authorities can process the crime scenes.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: He immediately heads south to Tampa, Florida. He rents a
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: room at the Tampa 8 Motel. Two nights later, a
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: maid enters the room to clean.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: And finds the next victim.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: She pushes the bathroom door open and finds 33-year-old Tina
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Marie Cribs stripped, stabbed twice, and left in the bathtub.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: It's the exact same MO.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: And this brings up a crucial logistical question. Right. How
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: does a man operating with this level of reckless, highly visible,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: chaotic rage manage to evade multiple state police departments and
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: the FBI?
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: He's threatening victim sisters to their faces. He's leaving bodies
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: in commercial motels. And his real name is floating around
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the system.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Right. It feels like they should have caught him in Mississippi.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: He goes directly back to the beta testing he did
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: as a police informant in Ohio. Glenn deeply understood the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: friction of jurisdictional bureaucracy.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: He knew how the system worked against itself.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: He knew that if he committed a murder in Mississippi
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and immediately drove across the border into Louisiana, the local
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Mississippi homicide detectives couldn't simply chase him across state lines.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: The moment he crosses the border, it triggers interstate protocols
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: involving federal agencies, which massively slows down the communication and
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: response time.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: He used the bathtub trick to buy himself the 48
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: hours needed to cross those borders.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: His violence was deeply chaotic, but his evasion tactics were
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: highly systemic and calculated.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: But the chaos couldn't last forever. The net was finally
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: closing in. By November 1995, Glenn Rogers is the most
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: wanted man in America.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: The FBI is actively hunting him for five murders across
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: five different states.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: But Glenn isn't trying to disappear into Mexico or Canada.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: He has one final, terrifying destination in mind. He points
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: his car north and heads back toward Hamilton, Ohio.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: This return to the origin is driven by ultimate psychological motivation.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Why drive back into the one town where every single
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: patrol cop knows your face and your history?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Because the cycle is demanding completion. He calls his family
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and tells them he intends to come full circle and
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: kill everybody. But his specific targets are his mother, Edna,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: and her new boyfriend, Bob.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Why is he so focused on the mother? We touched
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: on this earlier, but it is the absolute core of
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: his pathology.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: The documentary's psychological expert breaks it down perfectly. For months,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Glenn was killing his mother repeatedly through these women he murdered.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: The surrogates.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: They were maternal surrogates. But eventually the psychological release of
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: killing a surrogate isn't enough. The internal pressure demands that
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: he destroy the original source of his pain.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: So he has to go back.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Returning to Hamilton was his explicit attempt to annihilate the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: woman he felt should have protected him from his father's violence,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: but chose not to.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: But he also has a specific, incredibly twisted plan for
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: his brother, Clay.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: The plan for Clay is just bizarre.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Glenn tells Clay over the phone that when he arrives
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: to come full circle, he wants Clay to be the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: one to shoot him dead.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: So that the demon living inside Glenn will pass directly
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: into Clay.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Glenn legitimately believes that if his brother kills him, he
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: will be free of the demon in the afterlife.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: It is the ultimate toxic sibling burden. He wants to
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: literally curse his brother with his own madness as his
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: final defining act on Earth. He wants to transfer the
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: darkness one last time.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Fortunately for everyone in Ohio, he doesn't make it to Hamilton.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Kentucky State Police spot him driving through the town of Waco, Kentucky.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: And what vehicle is he driving? The white Ford Vestiva
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: he stole from his last victim, Tina Marie Cribs, down
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: in Florida.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: The chase that ensues is surreal.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: It defies the typical desperation of a fleeing killer.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: It plays out like a dark comedy.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: He is pushing this tiny, underpowered Ford Vestiva to over
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: 100 miles an hour down the highway. The police cruisers
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: are right on his bumper.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And during this high-speed life-or-death pursuit, what is Glenn Rogers doing?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: He rolls down his window, casually drinks a beer, and
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: throws the empty can out the window, bouncing it off
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the hood of the pursuing police cruiser.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: He opens another beer, drinks it, and throws that one too.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: That act perfectly demonstrates his complete, utter contempt for authority.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: It also shows his resignation to the moment. He knows
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: the game is over, the borders are closed, but he
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: is determined to go out on his own defiant, pathetic terms,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: mocking the police until the very last second.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: The police eventually ram him and run him off the road.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: He is pulled from the car and arrested.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: When the detectives sit him down and ask him how
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: many people he has killed, he casually leans back and replies,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: four or five, maybe 70, up to 70.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: He is interrogated and eventually extradited. He is tried and
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: sentenced to death in Florida for the murder of Tina
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Marie Cribbs.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Subsequently, he is tried and sentenced to death in California
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: for the murder of Sandra Gallagher.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: He becomes one of the very few men in American
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: history facing two separate executioners in two different states.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: But these dual death sentences reveal a deeply tragic systemic
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: flaw in capital case economics.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this part is really frustrating.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Because he was sentenced to death in Florida and California,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: almost every other state where he committed murders quietly dropped
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: their active investigations.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Let's explain why that happens, because it's a bureaucratic nightmare
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: for the victim's families.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: It comes down to taxpayer funding. It costs millions of
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: dollars for a county to try a capital murder case.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Expert witnesses, jury sequestration, years of appeals.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It's incredibly expensive.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: If a prosecutor looks at a suspect and sees he
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: is already sitting on death row with two lethal injection
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: dates pending, They simply will not spend the millions of
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: dollars to bring him to trial in their own state.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: The bureaucratic logic is that the man can only be
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: executed once.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Which means families like Linda Price's sister in Mississippi or
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Andy Sutton's roommate in Louisiana were completely abandoned by the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: justice system.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: They never got their day in court.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: They never got the chance to sit in a room,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: look Glenn Rogers in the eye, and watch a jury
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: legally convict him for what he did to the people
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: they loved. The justice system effectively froze. denying them any
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: official closure just to save money.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: It is a devastating lack of resolution for those families,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: a final institutional failure in a story built on them.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: And while sitting on death row, Glenn refuses to fade
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: into obscurity. He begins corresponding with Anthony Mioli, the profiler
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: we discussed earlier.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: And through these letters, Glenn reveals what he claims is
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: the origin of his violence, his very first murder.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: This claim takes us all the way back to the beginnings.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: when Glenn was just 13 years old.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: He writes that his dad, Claude, was working as a
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: janitor at the United Way building in Hamilton. Claude frequently
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: used the empty basement of the building to bring women
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: down for affairs.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: One day, the 13-year-old Glenn is hanging around the building.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: The phone upstairs keeps ringing. It's Edna, calling and screaming,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: looking for Claude.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: A woman comes up the stairs from the basement, grabs
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Glenn's face, and tells him to be.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: A good boy. Glenn, loyal to his mother, calls the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: woman a whore. The woman snaps back, calls Edna a
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: stupid bitch, and walks down the hallway toward the stairs.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Glenn claims that hearing this woman insult his mother triggered
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: a blinding rage. He says he ran down the hall,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: came up behind the woman, and shoved her violently down
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: the basement stairs.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: He claims he hid in a nearby closet, heard his
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: dad screaming in a panic, and then dead silence.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: His dad eventually finds him hiding and says, You killed her.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: We gotta clean up this mess.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: According to Glenn's letter, Claude and a 13-year-old Glenn put
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: the woman's body in the trunk of an Oldsmobile. They
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: drive across the bridge, deep into the Kentucky hills, and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Claude dumps the body on the side of.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: A rural road. Claude then looks at his young son
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: and tells him, a snitch is the worst kind of person.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: You don't say a word.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Glenn writes that this horrific cover-up was the first real
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: bonding conversation he ever had with his father. He felt terrified,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: but he also felt seen. He felt good.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: But we have to apply critical analysis to Glenn's own
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: words in this letter. He writes a very specific caveat.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: To this day, I don't know if I killed her
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: when she fell down the stairs or if he did,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: but I was made to believe I did it.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: And we have to ask the hard questions here because
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: we are dealing with a master manipulator. Was a 13-year-old
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: boy actually capable of murdering an adult woman with a
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: single push?
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Did the fall genuinely kill her?
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Or did she survive the fall? And Claude, the violent moonshiner,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: finished her off in the basement to silence her.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Did Claude use the situation to completely manipulate his son,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: gaslighting a deeply traumatized boy into believing he was a
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: murderer just to guarantee his silence?
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Given Claude's history of extreme violence, it is entirely plausible
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: that Claude committed the actual murder and forced his son
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to shoulder the psychological blame.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: But regardless of who struck the fatal blow, the event
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: fundamentally shattered Glenn's morality. He writes that after that day
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: in the basement, he stopped being scared of his father
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: and he just started hating everyone.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It was the precise genesis of his total detachment from
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: human empathy.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, we have covered massive heavy ground today.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: We really have.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: We've traced the harrowing path of a boy raised in
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: extreme poverty-stricken abuse whose brain was rewired by violence before
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: he could even read. We watched him get failed and
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: preyed upon by a juvenile justice system that shattered his soul.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: We saw him warp his trauma into a literal belief
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: in demons to absolve himself of guilt.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: We analyzed how he manipulated law enforcement, beta testing the
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: police as a protected informant while committing violent crimes.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: We examined the explosive, scientifically corroborated claim that he inserted
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: himself into the Brentwood murders. before tearing across the country,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: leaving a highly calculated trail of bodies in motel bathtubs.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: It is a dark, incredibly complex tapestry demonstrating exactly how
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: a killer is built, constructed both by nature's twisted psychology
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and by profound, repeated societal neglect.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Why does this deep dive matter to you listening right now?
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Because it forces us to look closely at the invisible
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: tripwires in our own society.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: How many times did an institution, a police department, a judge,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: or a neighbor look the other way because it was
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: bureaucratically easier?
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: How many times did the justice system prioritize a quick
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: drug bust over locking up a demonstrably violent man who
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: was threatening women with butcher knives?
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Glenn Rogers didn't become a monster in a vacuum. Society
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: helped build the maze he operated in, and they handed
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: him the map.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: The failures are systemic. They are compounding. And as we've seen,
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: they are catastrophic to public safety.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I want to leave you with a chilling concept, something
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: that is not fully resolved, something for you to mull
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: over long after this audio stops.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: At the very end of the documentary source, the cameras
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: show the Rogers Family Cemetery in rural Lee County, Kentucky.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: This is the exact plot of land where Glenn has
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: stated he wants to be buried when his execution day
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: finally comes.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Earlier in his life, Glenn once casually told his brother, Clay,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: that the absolute best way to hide a murder victim
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: isn't to leave them in the woods or a bathtub.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: He said the perfect method is to find a freshly
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: dug grave in a cemetery, move the loose dirt over,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: place your victim down in there, and cover it back
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: up before the official casket is lowered. Nobody would ever
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: know an extra body is there.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: It is the ultimate camouflage, hiding a crime within a
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: socially sanctioned ritual.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: The narrator of the documentary notes a terrifying detail. Right
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: next to the exact plot where Glenn wants to be buried,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: there's an area of unexplained, loose dirt.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: We spend so much time focusing on the bodies that
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: are found, right?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: The victims that make the nightly news, the ones that
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: spark national FBI manhunts, the ones with forensic files.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: But building on what we've learned today about Glenn's absolute
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: predatory cunning and his father Claude's moonshiner secrets of burying
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: things deep in the Kentucky hills.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: How many ghosts are resting quietly beneath the surface of
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: someone else's grave? Completely erased from history, denied justice, simply
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: because a killer knew exactly how to use our own
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: sacred rituals of burial against us.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Makes you question the reality of every pristine surface you see.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: It really does. Something for you to think about the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: next time you walk past a quiet, peaceful country cemetery.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Do we ever really know what's underneath? Or are we
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: just looking at the surface, blind to the muddy waters below?