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Dennis Laraway, CFO at Cleveland Clinic · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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This is Alan Condon back with another episode
0:37
of the Becker's CFO on revenue cycle podcast.
0:41
Today, I'm delighted to welcome Dennis Laraway, executive
0:45
vice president and CFO of Cleveland Clinic, one
0:48
of the most prominent, most reputable academic systems
0:51
across the globe. I believe 23 hospitals,
0:54
almost 300 outpatient facilities across Ohio,
0:57
Nevada,
0:58
and Florida,
0:59
as well as a substantial footprint in Canada,
1:01
London, and The United Arab Emirates. Dennis, a
1:05
real pleasure to have you on the podcast
1:06
with us today. Before we dive in, I'd
1:08
love to hand it over to you. For
1:10
those who are listeners who might be as
1:11
well acquainted with yourself, the work that you
1:13
do at Cleveland Clinic, do you mind just
1:15
sharing a little bit more about your role
1:16
and your background?
1:18
Sure. Happy to, Alan, and thank you, for
1:20
having me here, today.
1:22
So appreciate the introduction. You you have my
1:25
my current capacity,
1:27
with Cleveland Clinic.
1:29
As I as I've often,
1:32
noted here and and as I interviewed to
1:35
come to Cleveland Clinic, I trained a lifetime
1:38
to be here, and
1:40
I've had
1:41
a a great career. I've had a a
1:43
good run, so to speak.
1:45
Most recently,
1:46
prior to coming to Cleveland Clinic, I held
1:48
the same capacity
1:50
executive vice president and CFO for Banner Health,
1:54
in the West.
1:56
Third at the time, 32 hospitals in six
1:58
states,
2:00
similar
2:01
scale, and size,
2:03
between Banner Health and Cleveland Clinic,
2:05
but different organizations,
2:07
different comp,
2:08
composition
2:10
of each enterprise,
2:12
certainly different markets,
2:14
especially with Cleveland Clinic being a global,
2:17
enterprise.
2:19
Prior my to my time at Banner,
2:22
I was,
2:23
again, same capacity,
2:25
EVP and CFO for Memorial Hermann in Houston,
2:29
Texas.
2:30
I was there,
2:32
for about,
2:33
six years.
2:35
Prior to that,
2:36
similar capacity for Scott and White. And at
2:39
the time, it was just Scott and White
2:41
Healthcare.
2:42
Today, it's known as,
2:44
Baylor Scott and White,
2:46
long after my time,
2:48
there.
2:49
I spent,
2:50
fifteen years,
2:52
prior to,
2:54
these,
2:55
re more recent capacities
2:57
in Catholic health care. I was
2:59
a regional CFO in New York,
3:02
for Ascension Health, and I go back to
3:05
the days of when it was Daughters of
3:07
Charity,
3:08
National Health System,
3:10
prior to Ascension. So I I saw both
3:13
of those,
3:14
organizations,
3:16
come come to be.
3:18
And,
3:19
I also spent,
3:21
about five years with Dignity Health when
3:25
I left New York to come west,
3:27
to Arizona,
3:29
at Saint Joseph's
3:31
Hospital Medical Center and the Barrow Neurological
3:34
Institute.
3:36
That was part of, then Catholic Health Care
3:38
West, but today, Dignity Health are common spirit.
3:42
So I've had a a long run across,
3:45
across the country,
3:47
number of years in large national,
3:50
health systems,
3:51
then,
3:52
you know, states like Texas,
3:55
Arizona,
3:55
multistate in the West,
3:57
and now global enterprise,
4:00
here today with, Cleveland Clinic.
4:02
Yeah. Fantastic. I mean, what a what a
4:04
tenured experience at some some fantastic health systems
4:08
in very different parts of the country, very
4:09
different operating models. Ascension, like you said, at
4:12
Dignity, Baylor Scott White Health, Banner Health, and
4:15
more recently in your in your current role
4:17
as EVP and CFO of Cleveland Clinic. Fantastic
4:20
academic institution as well. So fast forward into
4:24
to today, we're we're closing to the 2025,
4:28
2026
4:29
on horizon.
4:30
In your seat as CFO of Cleveland Clinic,
4:33
Dennis, what are the the two or three
4:35
kinda key trends that you're paying most attention
4:38
to today,
4:39
and why?
4:40
Yeah. I'm I'm sure I'm in a good
4:42
company as as the entire sector,
4:46
is
4:47
in transition. It's in transformation.
4:49
You know, health health sector as a whole,
4:52
you know, nearly 20%
4:54
of the GDP generated in this country,
4:58
something I'll come back to, I I think
5:00
here in my comments,
5:02
today.
5:04
But at 20% GDP, it's very fertile ground,
5:07
for,
5:09
a lot of activity, a lot of emerging
5:11
technology
5:12
transformation,
5:14
even more,
5:15
of
5:16
industrialization,
5:17
if you will,
5:18
that really has not
5:20
occurred in the health sector as it has
5:22
in other industries,
5:24
and sectors of our economy over the years.
5:27
So maybe with that as a backdrop,
5:30
you know, we're we're following here and and
5:33
me personally in my capacity for Cleveland Clinic,
5:37
a few major
5:38
converging forces, if you will.
5:41
And I'll start with
5:43
health care legislation,
5:45
you know, some of the activities in Washington,
5:48
the impact that they have to states,
5:51
around,
5:52
the country,
5:53
payment reform,
5:55
changes in in payment methodologies,
5:58
and
5:59
revenue revenue models. And,
6:02
certainly,
6:03
we would wrap
6:04
the the transformation
6:05
and shift from fee for service,
6:08
volume based health care to value based care,
6:12
and that journey that we've been on for
6:14
a number of years now
6:16
is now getting folded into,
6:20
more,
6:21
impactful legislative changes and payment reform. And and
6:25
the punchline there,
6:27
in my mind is, you know, fed federal
6:30
dollars,
6:31
and the affordability
6:33
of the federal budget to health care,
6:36
those dollars are going to come down.
6:40
Federal funding of programs,
6:43
the risk the government has in fee for
6:45
service health care, that's utilization
6:48
risk, claim risk, volume risk,
6:52
That's budget risk, and those dollars are going
6:55
to come down. And so there's going to
6:57
be price
6:58
and payment pressure
7:00
from CMS,
7:02
and as well the federal funding
7:05
of, state Medicaid programs,
7:08
across the country. And we're gonna see,
7:11
pressure,
7:12
in government programs,
7:14
into the near future, whether we'd like it
7:16
or not.
7:18
And many of our health systems, including Cleveland
7:21
Clinic,
7:21
across the country,
7:24
60%
7:25
of the utilization
7:27
of of our hospitals
7:29
are are in the form,
7:31
and provided to Medicare and Medicaid
7:37
shift and price transformation,
7:39
it's got all of our, attention,
7:42
needless to say.
7:43
Maybe along with that,
7:45
another theme here,
7:48
would be our response,
7:51
in the form of cost transformation.
7:53
If you've got price pressure,
7:56
and,
7:57
revenue revenue pressure, then we must turn to
8:00
what's right in front of us, our own
8:02
expense base,
8:04
and our own,
8:06
labor and non labor,
8:08
cost efficiencies and synergies
8:11
that are there for us,
8:13
to act upon. And, you know, that's leadership.
8:16
That's what we're here, to do.
8:18
That's going to be ever more important moving
8:20
forward
8:22
is getting leaner,
8:24
across our enterprise,
8:26
labor, labor productivity,
8:29
supply chains,
8:31
consolidation
8:31
of back office services.
8:34
Many of the things that we've been working
8:35
on,
8:37
as health systems,
8:39
for a number of years are are now
8:42
more and more, important.
8:45
Pre creating standards,
8:47
that can be reproduced
8:49
with reduced variation
8:51
to try to get more and more efficiency,
8:54
in into the into the system. That that's
8:57
has our attention.
8:58
I can speak a little bit more about
9:00
that in a few minutes, but,
9:02
certainly a theme,
9:04
that we pay close attention to here. And
9:06
then I'd add a third, maybe a three
9:08
legged stool here of of trends that we're
9:11
following,
9:12
would be the technology
9:14
transformation itself.
9:17
And, again, I'm not I'm not alone,
9:19
in in what we're paying attention to here,
9:22
but the health sector
9:24
as a whole has lacked,
9:27
technology adoption
9:29
that that we've seen across other industries from
9:32
banking to the airlines
9:34
to manufacturing,
9:37
RPA, robotic, and AI driven manufacturing
9:40
plants.
9:41
We have lagged behind,
9:44
as as an industry.
9:47
If for no other reason than operating margins
9:50
are thin,
9:52
dollars for
9:53
tech technology transformation
9:56
have historically been limited.
9:58
And aside from the Affordable Care Act and
10:01
the dollars that were infused
10:03
for electronic
10:04
medical records and so forth,
10:06
We have a long way to go in
10:09
in technology.
10:11
AI is is now
10:14
very, very well represented
10:16
in in the health sector. As I mentioned
10:19
before, health care,
10:21
is very fertile ground,
10:23
and that is very true
10:25
for the opportunities and synergies that are available,
10:29
for
10:30
AI, robotics,
10:33
technology that can
10:35
increase our coverage,
10:37
of of volume and patients and
10:40
transactional,
10:41
volumes,
10:43
speed,
10:43
and accuracy.
10:45
And that drives cost transformation,
10:47
and that drives a response
10:50
to payment reform and,
10:52
health care legislation. So those three are very
10:55
well connected here at Cleveland Clinic, and I
10:58
trust for many of my colleagues across the
10:59
country.
11:01
Yeah. Absolutely. I think, so helpful to hear
11:04
that breakdown and kind of some of the
11:05
specific areas that you're focusing on. In terms
11:07
of, obviously, health care legislation,
11:09
we we know so much coming down the
11:11
pipeline in terms of Medicaid cuts. Payment reform
11:14
is such a huge thing. ACA subsidies, so
11:16
much up in the air as we as
11:17
we look down for a potential December vote
11:19
there. But, Dennis, I think in terms of
11:22
the cost transformation that you'd referenced,
11:25
we this came up unsurprisingly to you and
11:27
many of your peers listening to this podcast
11:29
time and time again at our, Becker CEO
11:32
and CFO roundtable earlier this month in terms
11:35
of arguably the the the pressure, the downward
11:38
pressure on cost and prices.
11:40
One of the toughest one of the challenges
11:42
environments we've seen, we've seen CFOs in your
11:45
seats at house systems said they're taking a
11:47
harder look, possibly harder than they've ever had
11:49
to take at reducing costs whether through vendor
11:52
consolidation,
11:53
working through bring down supply cost through GPO,
11:56
looking at their their labor force. I'm curious,
11:59
is there anything,
12:00
from Cleveland Clinic standpoint in terms of bringing
12:02
down costs on the vendor side, on the
12:04
supply side? Is there anything that granted no
12:07
silver bullets, but is there anything that has
12:09
proven
12:10
quite substantial for you in terms of bringing
12:12
down some of those costs,
12:14
recently?
12:15
Yeah. Great great question. Great follow-up there.
12:18
I I would maybe point to a couple
12:21
of examples. And,
12:23
you know, there's a little bit of this
12:24
that's,
12:25
you know, blocking and tackling,
12:28
one zero one, pick an axe work. Right?
12:30
You know, get back to the basics, and
12:32
I'll start with labor.
12:34
Labor productivity.
12:35
You know, we can never never pay too
12:38
much attention
12:39
to how efficient,
12:41
we are with our workforce.
12:44
We want to be
12:45
the best
12:47
employers, in the country or the world,
12:50
for that matter.
12:51
We want to be seen as the employer
12:53
of choice
12:55
in in our communities,
12:56
in the sector of health care.
12:59
So that means we want compensation
13:02
and benefits,
13:03
the environment of care,
13:06
an environment in the workforce.
13:09
So all of those are top of mind,
13:11
forefront every day.
13:13
But we also need to make sure we're
13:16
using
13:17
our workforce
13:18
at the top of their license
13:20
in each and every,
13:22
sort of category of labor, job class of
13:25
labor,
13:26
throughout the enterprise,
13:28
be at top of license where you can
13:30
be,
13:31
be as
13:32
productive,
13:34
whether that's bedside,
13:36
productivity,
13:38
nursing standards and patient ratios,
13:41
operating room efficiencies,
13:43
or back office services
13:46
and transactional productivity.
13:48
We have to be able to use the
13:50
workforce as efficiently as possible
13:53
and be that employer of choice,
13:56
and competitive wages and benefits and all of
13:59
those
14:00
all of those activities across the board. We've
14:02
gotta be able to do both. And
14:05
and we spent a lot of time,
14:07
working on this.
14:09
And, of course, for these large complex health
14:12
systems, this is a a complex undertaking.
14:15
And we have multiple markets,
14:18
of course,
14:20
you know, both domestic
14:22
and abroad. So
14:24
I'm not saying that it's easy, but it
14:26
is back to basics. And if you do
14:29
this work really, really well,
14:31
it
14:32
it tends to take care of the other
14:35
numbers. And and I'll give a a quick,
14:38
punchline example for Cleveland Clinic. So this
14:42
this year through the three quarter
14:45
mark of the year ended September 30, and
14:48
we're public with those,
14:50
financial,
14:52
statements and earnings released through the third quarter.
14:55
So we're we're exceeding our plan for the
14:58
year in top line revenue.
15:00
And so then when you look at, well,
15:02
how how much of that,
15:04
revenue
15:06
growth over plan is dropping to
15:09
operating income or operating cash flow,
15:12
for us, it's nearly 100%.
15:15
And that's because
15:17
of our attention to managing our expense base,
15:20
managing to volume,
15:23
and patients served across the enterprise,
15:27
not necessarily
15:28
to the revenue streams and the dollars
15:31
because we could be getting price,
15:33
revenue cycle, other revenue
15:36
benefits,
15:37
but we should be managing our expense base
15:40
to the utilization
15:42
that we're serving.
15:43
We're showing an improved ability to do that.
15:46
Our labor productivity
15:48
is continuing to improve year on year,
15:52
and that is allowing us
15:54
to translate top line revenue growth directly to
15:57
the bottom line in the income statement. Couldn't
16:00
be couldn't be more pleased with with some
16:03
of the successes that we're we're having there.
16:06
And and I'll give I'll give another quick,
16:09
what's working well,
16:10
here,
16:12
and that's,
16:13
some consolidation,
16:15
standardization,
16:18
adoption of supply chain,
16:20
formulary,
16:22
creating greater alignment with our physicians,
16:25
our employee professional staff,
16:27
our physician partners in our communities
16:31
to
16:32
have the high adopters
16:34
and participants within our formulary,
16:37
of
16:38
of supplies and pharmaceuticals.
16:41
And if we can create that alignment,
16:43
that that adoption,
16:46
we create contract leverage, if you will,
16:49
contract consolidation.
16:52
We reduce variation.
16:54
That's better quality of care,
16:57
that I think translates from that.
17:00
And it certainly helps us leverage price and
17:03
utilization
17:04
controls. And so that's another area that's working
17:07
well. And, you know, maybe lastly,
17:10
back office services
17:12
for a global enterprise,
17:14
we consolidate
17:15
our corporate enterprise services.
17:18
Most of that here in Cleveland,
17:21
we show real scale benefit
17:23
for doing that.
17:25
In a quick punchline example again
17:28
of our aggregate
17:30
corporate
17:31
shared services cost across our global,
17:34
footprint,
17:36
our total,
17:38
enterprise services
17:39
as a percentage of our revenue,
17:42
is down to now 8%,
17:45
of our total revenue streams in the form
17:47
of our centralized services.
17:50
That's at an all time low, for us,
17:53
and we're showing the benefit of scale and
17:55
scale synergies
17:57
of standardization
17:58
and consolidation
17:59
across our enterprise.
18:01
Just a few areas that I hope would
18:03
be helpful.
18:04
Absolutely. I appreciate those those three specific and
18:07
unique examples and some of the great work
18:09
that that you that your team at Cleveland
18:10
Clinic have done recently in those areas.
18:14
It ties nicely into
18:15
my next question as well, Dennis. In terms
18:17
of you I'm sure there's a few areas
18:19
we could go with this question. In terms
18:21
of what you specifically are most excited about.
18:24
I know at the top of the conversation,
18:25
you talked a little bit about health care
18:27
is 20% of GDP.
18:29
You you touched on AI and potential excitement
18:32
in that area. But for you, when you're
18:33
seen as CFO of Cleveland Clinic, is there
18:36
one area that you're particularly excited about when
18:38
you think about the future?
18:40
Yeah.
18:41
Great great question. I'm not sure I could
18:43
narrow it to one, but let me let
18:45
me try to be, as brief as I
18:47
can. Couple a couple examples is fine. Sure.
18:50
I pre I appreciate that.
18:52
In in this profession, in this industry,
18:56
every day here is opportunity
18:58
abound.
18:59
You know, a transforming,
19:01
industry,
19:03
transformative times, if you will,
19:05
I've noted the 20 near 20% GDP,
19:08
the fertile ground for industrialization,
19:11
tech
19:12
transformation,
19:15
the evolving emerging AI,
19:17
applications and opportunities,
19:20
you can't help but
19:22
but have opportunity abound. And leaders
19:26
leaders are made in transformative
19:28
times. So
19:30
bring bring all the tools,
19:32
in in your toolkit. Bring your lunchbox to,
19:35
you know, lunch pail to work every day,
19:39
and it's opportunity abound,
19:41
for us. And that that's pretty exciting,
19:44
about professions,
19:45
job,
19:47
in this in in this industry.
19:49
And maybe a couple of examples of that.
19:51
The
19:52
the partnerships
19:54
that are emerging
19:55
from from these transformative times are pretty amazing.
19:58
And, you know, some of that is most
20:01
easily seen today in the AI,
20:04
emerging companies and solutions.
20:07
But there there are crossover
20:09
companies
20:10
that are crossing over into health care. Some
20:13
of the biggest brand name companies
20:16
in the world, the Oracles,
20:18
the Googles,
20:19
the Microsofts,
20:22
on and on are are crossing over here.
20:25
Palantir,
20:27
is is an example of a big partnership
20:29
here at Cleveland Clinic,
20:32
working on operational,
20:34
synergies for us.
20:36
We have
20:37
other,
20:39
partnerships that have been recently announced,
20:43
globally here,
20:44
with,
20:45
Oracle,
20:47
g forty two, in The Middle East,
20:50
and Cleveland Clinic
20:52
to work on,
20:54
the the transformation
20:55
of care in a more AI driven,
20:59
experience for patients, providers,
21:02
and stakeholders abound,
21:05
in sort of reimagining health care and how
21:08
that can be,
21:10
implemented
21:11
and commercialized,
21:12
across,
21:14
across countries. So so really, really creative,
21:18
things that are happening there. And then maybe
21:20
down to some smaller examples, we're we're working
21:23
with emerging,
21:25
AI companies like Ambiance and the Ambiance listening,
21:30
capability of of physicians
21:33
in their offices seeing patients
21:36
without having to type on a keyboard.
21:38
And,
21:39
you know, iPhone driven or I should say
21:41
just cell phone driven
21:44
automation
21:45
that then transcribes,
21:46
develops the patient note that helps drive coding
21:50
and abstracting,
21:52
and the opportunity to use that kind of
21:54
technology
21:55
for hospital care, attending
21:58
special subspecialty care,
22:00
connections to the revenue cycle. You know, all
22:02
of that,
22:03
is is about,
22:05
here.
22:06
We have another example in directly in our
22:09
revenue cycle with Acasa,
22:11
that we're
22:13
automated,
22:16
documentation,
22:17
query, and coding, and abstracting
22:20
that we have historically done through brute force
22:23
with labor and CDI nurses and
22:26
workflow queries and emails to our providers
22:30
can now be done through algorithms,
22:33
AI driven
22:34
workflow
22:35
in Epic,
22:37
as as an example. So
22:39
a lot a lot of transformation,
22:42
that that we can point to,
22:44
that's pretty exciting
22:46
that
22:46
and, you know, it's nice to have a
22:48
seat at the table,
22:50
in in some of these,
22:52
affairs and partnerships.
22:54
Cleveland Clinic,
22:56
has,
22:57
I think, both a responsibility
22:59
and an ability
23:01
to be impactful,
23:03
in this transformation around the world, and we're
23:05
gonna do everything we can to make that
23:07
happen.
23:09
Yeah. No doubt. It's such an innovative system.
23:11
A ton of fantastic examples, fantastic partners that
23:13
you just announced in terms of who you're
23:15
working with. Your colleague, doctor Connor Lane, you
23:18
recently told me how about how excited he
23:20
was about the AI Ambient Listening technology as
23:22
a physician leader in Cleveland Clinic,
23:25
and some of the some of the already,
23:26
fantastic effects that's having in terms of physician
23:29
engagement, the patient experience, and whatnot.
23:32
One quick follow-up, Dennis, I have for you
23:34
in terms of AI specifically in the revenue
23:37
side, which you just touched on in terms
23:38
of one of your partnerships there.
23:41
In terms
23:42
of AI as AI becomes
23:45
let me back up. Payers have been using
23:47
AI automation on on their end of the
23:48
spectrum for for quite some time. It feels
23:51
like we're at a point now where providers
23:53
are playing a little bit of catch up,
23:55
embedding and leveraging AI to a little bit
23:57
more benefit in the revenue cycle, automation.
24:00
I'm curious. Do you think about
24:02
the AI arms race between payers and providers?
24:06
How you see this kind of evolving in
24:08
the coming years as AI becomes more deeply
24:11
embedded in the revenue cycle, more deeply integrated
24:14
in the revenue cycle.
24:15
Any kind of thoughts there just out of
24:17
curiosity?
24:19
Yeah. This is, there's some double edged sword
24:22
effect here,
24:24
to some of the issues you just raised
24:26
there.
24:27
I'll try to do this justice in a
24:29
short period of time.
24:32
So we're
24:34
we in in the provider sector,
24:36
we
24:38
we're chasing this a bit. Right? We don't
24:40
control the purse string.
24:42
So we're often often responding
24:45
to,
24:47
you know, claims that it's,
24:49
you know,
24:51
rules and bulletins and things of that nature
24:54
that guide
24:55
from the purse string holders,
24:58
from,
24:59
government,
25:00
payers,
25:01
CMS, Medicaid,
25:03
plans,
25:05
to, you know,
25:06
small, medium, and large commercial,
25:08
plans, across our communities. And
25:11
and so
25:13
we do our best to adopt, change, create
25:17
create billing editors and claim editors and try
25:21
to align
25:22
with the rules and with
25:24
with with changes over time
25:27
to minimize as much friction
25:29
as we can.
25:31
But with all of that work, we still
25:33
face
25:35
15
25:36
plus percent denial rates
25:38
on our claims,
25:40
which starts a cascade of rework,
25:43
rebilling,
25:45
medical director appeals,
25:47
on and on and on. A lot of
25:49
friction
25:49
that sometimes involves the patient and often involves
25:53
the provider, the doctor,
25:55
him or herself. So a lot of time,
25:58
energy, and resources consumed
26:01
in that friction.
26:03
And at the end, when we sort it
26:05
all out from initial denial rates to
26:09
final
26:11
percentages of controllable loss,
26:14
we bring those denial rates down to sub
26:16
two percent at the end.
26:19
But all of the time, energy, and resources
26:22
consumed to get it from 15 to sub
26:25
two
26:26
is unsustainable.
26:28
And that's arguably
26:29
also unnecessary
26:31
and unsustainable
26:32
for
26:33
the payers, the plans.
26:36
If they're watching the same report card that
26:38
we are, an initial 15%
26:41
ends up being sub two,
26:43
at the end of the day.
26:45
That doesn't seem to be productive
26:47
friction in health care for either side of
26:50
the table.
26:51
So whether they
26:53
ramp up AI faster than we ramp up
26:56
AI to try to beat the algorithms and
26:58
beat beat the edits, if you will,
27:01
that doesn't seem to be the right game.
27:04
The right game is
27:06
to
27:06
collaborate and create alignment,
27:10
do the right thing,
27:12
come to agreement
27:13
on
27:15
claim reviews, chart reviews,
27:17
things that need to be done to create
27:20
ongoing integrity
27:22
in the revenue cycle for both sides,
27:25
and then do that on retrospective reviews,
27:30
you know, audits, things of that nature on
27:33
collaborative joint operating committees
27:36
rather than putting claims
27:38
and patients and providers
27:41
in the middle
27:42
of all of this friction.
27:44
We need to be able to do this
27:46
better, and AI is not not exactly the
27:49
answer
27:50
for either side,
27:52
of this table.
27:53
Let me pause there.
27:55
Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I think just just something
27:58
that's been on the question of my mind,
28:00
no doubt, other CFOs, revenue cycle leaders like
28:02
yourself.
28:03
I think partnership and collaboration, no doubt over
28:06
this kind of AI arms race and push
28:08
pull dynamic that you've been seeing particularly
28:10
challenging over the last few quarters.
28:13
Dennis Laraway, so so greatly appreciate you taking
28:15
the time out of your busy schedule to
28:17
hop on the Becker CFO on revenue cycle
28:20
podcast.
28:20
I've I've certainly learned learned a lot. It's
28:23
been a pleasure connecting with you, and no
28:25
doubt, our our listeners and our hospital executive
28:27
audience will have greatly appreciated this episode as
28:29
well. Thank you so much for taking the
28:31
time. Thank you, Alan. Glad to be here.
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